arms

[hazy flower]

by running all 8 my first week

[nova marsh]

Or the open world

[hazy flower]

because it's guaranteed

[wind flicker]

Its a good way to get familiar with dungeons, but not to learn proper dungeon mechanics in my opinion

[nova marsh]

Which was more common to even get groups for lol

Because of people wanting valor/flightstones

[untold trench]

Nah, M0 as it is now is pointless. S4 M0 tho, sounds very useful

[nova marsh]

And not wanting their eyes to bleed in the dream

[proud plover]

m0 doti next tier people farming trinkets

it will be useful

[nova marsh]

I really don't want to farm those out again

[untold trench]

Good gold Inc

[nova marsh]

I mean also does kinda ruin my idea of just steamrolling immortal M0 DOTI

....Potentionally

Still pretty steamrollable if it's equivlant to a +10, just....not a literal joke

[proud plover]

its a 10 without affixes or timer, should be fine

[wind flicker]

There hasnt been a confirmation of DOTI returning or am i mistaken?

[proud plover]

no doti for m+ no

[wind flicker]

They only mentioned the original dragonflight dungeons, not DOTI

I see

[modest marlin]

I wouldn't be surprised if m0 doti exists but I don't think it's a keystone in s4

[nova marsh]

why wouldn't it

[proud plover]

its m0 version should exist forever, i still run it for mounts/tmog

[nova marsh]

Yeah also the immortal

[lament sigil]

so btw i am confused , are the 1-10 m+ dungeons that are suposedly the equivalent of 10-20 timed or they have no timer and the timer starts at +11?

[nova marsh]

Timed

[trim arrow]

what ilvl is m0

next season

[nova marsh]

The only difference is the M0 is equivlant to a no timer +10

[lament sigil]

so basically nothing changes and they simply squished the dificulty

[nova marsh]

yeah

[proud plover]

nice easy visual guide

[modest marlin]

M0s will be a bit easier cause of no affix and timer but still decently hard

[proud plover]

people will be screaming about heroics tho

[dire hinge]

Myth vault gonna be easy bc only two affixes

[modest marlin]

I'm down, screw sang, bursting, and spiteful

[proud plover]

its only 2 now tho right?

[dire hinge]

Is it?

Ngl I haven’t done keys for a while

[proud plover]

2+ fort/tyran

[trim arrow]

spiteful is free pad

[dire hinge]

Isn’t it like 2/8/16 or something (not at my pc)

[proud plover]

Mythic+
The Mythic+ system will have rewards up to level 10, with +2 starting from what would regularly be a +11 in the current Mythic+ system.
A +5 should be as hard as a +15 and +10 should be as hard as a +20 in the current Mythic+ system etc.
Affixes would slot in at +2, +5, and +10
+2 - Fortified/Tyrannical
+5 - Entangling / Incorporeal etc.
+10 - Bursting / Bolstering etc.
Dungeon ratings should be equivalent to what they represent in the current system.
There should be a smaller range of keystone levels to find groups for, and more meaningful progression between each level.

^^ s4\

well fuck myth vault comes from +8

so yeah fort/tyran and 1 affix

[trim arrow]

thats just a content nerf

[pulsar summit]

Same with the weekly m+ quest. Imagine the folks that just do 4 M0s.

Unless they change that quest

[proud plover]

they can do 4xm2's and it will be easier

[pulsar summit]

Which seems odd, but yea, your right

[trim arrow]

m+ vault gear even more free now

[inner wasp]

id like it if this is how it is always

just like, as a standard

[proud plover]

thats their plan

[inner wasp]

m+ is supposed to be the other half of endgame but ur loot maxes out far before i even have to start paying attention

always felt weird

[proud plover]

its going to be easier, means i can get myth vault an all of my alts with less work

[inner wasp]

granted that chart says the top end difficulty will be the same

which is eh

but normal and heroic and m0-7 being the same god damn thing is zzzzz

[trim arrow]

yeah idk

m+ gear is too easy to get

for its difficulty imo

[proud plover]

s4 alt feels - do i make a return of the fotm ret, continue the boomy, play devoker/aug or finally convert one of my mistweavers into ww

[modest marlin]

It's not that normal and heroic raiding is hard, it's just more annoying

[inner wasp]

monk is sick

[proud plover]

yeah i have 4 monks..

[trim arrow]

you hate yourself if you play aug

[inner wasp]

why dawg

[trim arrow]

why 4 monks

[wary raft]

I mean only 13.3% of the pop has all keys at 20

raiderio doesnt have anything for all 18s but

I imagine its not that much higher

[modest marlin]

The 2500 achieve is close for that

[proud plover]

timewalking spam for my goddamn timereaver mount that wont drop for me 😦

[modest marlin]

That's like 20%

[trim arrow]

oh

i got my timereaver in wod

didnt know it was rare

[proud plover]

grats

glad someone got it

[trim arrow]

is monk even better

than other specs in tw

i could have sworn havoc was the best spec

[modest marlin]

I got it during the break the time ways thing in 10.0.5

[wary raft]

fury goes pretty hard in tw

I think best (at least last time I worred about my tw set) was fmage

fire is BONKERS in tw

[proud plover]

fury comes with the dps que so i play tanks and healers

only did 12 toons this week between heearthstone portals

[modest marlin]

The reason they're squishing m+ is that not a ton of people did 2-10s as it is and there's been a lot of people who say the timer keeps them from doing m+

[trim arrow]

i literally see people queue tw tank role

as havoc

[proud plover]

pwar is the best timewalking spec hands down

[trim arrow]

you can pull the whole instance

and just nuke it

[trim arrow]

nah its havoc, timewalking discord data shows it too

in full bis nothing is better at speedrunning tw than that spec

[modest marlin]

Another reason they're changing m+ is because Delve vaults will reward hero track loot too as solo content

[proud plover]

pwar in questing greens out of the box, no tier, shitty trinkets - unkillable, can charge/leap and tc packs and keep running to boss and everything sticks to you and dies

[trim arrow]

if you’re gonna spam tw

why not gear for it

[proud plover]

i have geared tw toons but i dont have the time to invest into ALL my tw toons

[trim arrow]

im lazy and just use 3x bom with some trinkets

and enchanted wep

3x revenge is technically better

[latent moss]

casuals cry

and honeslty

i couldnt care less

about weeklies being 18s

8s after the squish

[proud plover]

hahaa m+ gear is easy to get - i can hear all those that farmed tott for a weapon for months to never see it drop scream rn

[latent moss]

if that makes them happy and doesnt impact me

go ahead

[trim arrow]

what tott weapon?

[proud plover]

i kinda like the idea that the max reward structure for m+ ends well before the difficulity

[trim arrow]

whitefin axe?

[proud plover]

yeah i looted one, gave like 7 away and got a 489 in vault week 3

[trim arrow]

mid tier wep

would rather have gorehowl

[proud plover]

i had that also

[trim arrow]

i got 489 whitefin week 2

then 489 leech ravencrest’s

same week i got fyralath

[proud plover]

completed all the seasons tmogs at the same time - nice!

[trim arrow]

i still havent seen gorehowl

[proud plover]

thats hella unlucky

[trim arrow]

rolling leech on myth chest and weapon is funny

i have like 900 leech from 2 items

[proud plover]

the gorehowl bonus is trash anyway

[trim arrow]

get that brh minmax

jk not giving up 443 leech on oh

[proud plover]

better in dht

but still trash

[trim arrow]

whats a demon in dht

[proud plover]

all the satyr's

[trim arrow]

ehh

but theres a whole hallway of demons before 3rd boss in dht

wasnt sure if xavius was a demon

[proud plover]

yep

it was less than 1% damage from memory

over entire key

[trim arrow]

its more flavor than anything

[proud plover]

some random 17 dht i did with it months ago

[trim arrow]

i tend to forget satyrs are demons

the dangerous trash in dht is beasts

[quaint otter]

Budget bdk

[snow flame]

@sage badge do you disagree that arms has issues spending rage?

Your boy taco says you are always at 0 rage

[gaunt ginkgo]

I don't know when (though I guess during the first pull) in my last dungeon I did this... but I hate me xD

[sage badge]

The reason I'm near 0 rage is because I upkeep or stack ignore pain for certain bosses or pulls. Arms outside of execute phase, has no issues spending it. If anything, you have too much, therefore you have more freedom to use it however you can (mainly ignore pain since it's off gcd).

I got in the habit of just spending excess into ignore pain even if I wouldn't need it.

[quaint otter]

and yet ure 1st dps right

[outer holly]

I often find that trying to keep up stacks of IP leaves me at a rage deficit more often than not

[gaunt ginkgo]

Nah, ret pally was 34k ahead of me on overall, EB +20

[sage badge]

Like during bladestorm for example, I'd just spend on ignore pain since you'll cap rage anyway. Even if there isn't anything that'd kill you.

[quaint otter]

rets are myth so ure the 1st

[sage badge]

Yeah, actually stacking makes rage management more important.

You're basically sacrificing using sos-whirlwind, and relying on sudden death procs if you're trying to prep more than 1 stack of ignore pain against something (Yazma on high tyrannical for soul rend, or Mindbender's flame shock).

[snow flame]

yeah I had to put him into place

he understands now

[sage badge]

[toxic holly]

Hi, can someone telling me if i must use MS on CD or waiting at least 2 stacks of OP/EXEC on it before using it ?

[pine wind]

i use it on CD to avoid potentially scrubbing a tactician proc

err battlelord

[toxic holly]

That's what i was thinking... Ty

[pine wind]

Sometimes i get a nice string of procs and can alternate OP/MS for like 10 globals. better than having to weave a slam in because everything else is on CD

Also, are the arms sims working well? on the guide rezans eye is shown to be a second bis but its simming less than my Porcelain crab/sandglass combo and Mirrors is simming as a 1.5% upgrade

[manic grove]

is arms as cringe as fury on smolderon?

[halcyon breach]

By cringe do you mean having to delay orbs

If so then yes

[manic grove]

yeah lol

same thing you have to run out and then leap back?

[halcyon breach]

yes

[manic grove]

😭

[halcyon breach]

Or leap out and charge back in

Either works

But both specs work on a 1:30 CD basis

[manic grove]

feels so bad for fury, progging last night was horrid

[halcyon breach]

Idk all of Smolderon prog I didn't care about it

[manic grove]

was wondering if arms would feel better

[halcyon breach]

You'll effectively play the same fight regardless of being Fury or Arms

[manic grove]

ok no worries ty

[boreal quartz]

/use 7

[boreal quartz]

Arms will feel worse as you die to 1 wave

Fury doesnt die to 1 later into the fight

Also for fat arms dam you need the boss in intermission at 30% for the fatal mark

Which will be wonky on prog

[halcyon breach]

I do it and have had no issue

[boreal quartz]

@halcyon breach reclear is imminent

6.5%

[halcyon breach]

had 13% pull 2 days ago

So surely it will be over tonight

And I'm freed

[boreal quartz]

Well the 6.5er was a raid before yday - on monday they only got 9% or so idk

Cuz im on vacation for ce as is customary by now

[halcyon breach]

Consider killing faster

[boreal quartz]

Börd for bongizai?

[boreal quartz]

The 6er couldve been a kill if we didnt wipe

[halcyon breach]

So could've the 13% wipe for us if there wasn't a terrorist tornado (I checked my vod to see who did it) that killed half the raid

[boreal quartz]

We had a blaze and a confused seed end it

But that's okay

I wonder who gets the bird ngl

[halcyon breach]

I will look towards greener pastures after kill (I don't actually know where yet for sure)

[boreal quartz]

Wouldnt simply stopping for the tier be best

Or can u join spongai

[halcyon breach]

I'm gonna try and join Tutel

[boreal quartz]

As dh or wario though

Or yellow

[halcyon breach]

But I don't think they're particularly excited to recruit another melee

[boreal quartz]

Famous slayer baneziwindwalker

[halcyon breach]

How about never

[dreamy spire]

"Hello. We’d like to answer a couple of questions we’ve seen for Slayer:

The brief Bladestorm from Frenetic Flurry will fit in the GCD from the ability that triggered it, the intent is that it should not impact your rotation. The ability to use Pummel and Storm Bolt while Bladestorming applies during all Bladestorms, not just the one triggered from Frenetic Flurry.

Likewise, all Bladestorm damage events will trigger Overwhelming Blades, including Frenetic Flurry and the additional ticks from Imminent Demise.

Thanks for the feedback, keep it coming!"

Do i understand ir right, that when this bladestorm is triggered by OP/BT while the GCD of OP/BT is running im doing a bladestorm, and when the GCD falls of the Bladestorm falls off aswell, so it doesnt have any impact on my playstyle?

[halcyon breach]

Yes

It's what they explicitly mean by saying it wont impact your rotation

[dreamy spire]

yeah, my english isnt the best so i just wanna ask if i got this right.

[halcyon breach]

Always fine to ask for clarification

[dreamy spire]

sometimes i mix something up. Or sometimes they talking in a confusing way, like they did with the M+ Changes last week

[halcyon breach]

Yeah well Blizzard is notorious when it comes to wording

[astral yarrow]

infamous even

[hardy olive]

Will there be another mythic raids nerf?

[snow flame]

it's a secret patch

no one knows anything

[sharp wyvern]

At this point what boss needs nerfing?

[obtuse copper]

I do

[gaunt owl]

I do

[dull siren]

I do

[astral yarrow]

[fresh spire]

I'm expecting more nerfs for last 3 very soon

Given s4 is basically "soon"

Expecting the raid to get jailered

Wouldn't be supprised when servers come up if fyrakk is further nerfed

And tindril

[dull siren]

Raszageth needs nerfs

[verbal ingot]

You got like 800 guilds stuck on fyrakk, 700 or something on tindral and a couple hundred stuck on smolderon

Raid to be jailered soon (tm)

[quasi torrent]

smolder most certainly doesn't need further nerfs

[crimson nymph]

Slap fyrakk with another 10% nerf and call it a day

[rare kite]

Fyrakk gonna get more nerfs for sure

[median scroll]

so that even washed up guilds like @boreal quartz's get the kill, no way

[astral yarrow]

Gotta gatekeep @halcyon breach as well

[short spear]

i usually play fury, is augery still top end for arms?

[halcyon breach]

Gatekeep dn

[astral yarrow]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-smile-shyboos-smile-gif-24233810

[boreal quartz]

Im ahead if banezi in prog sir

[halcyon breach]

Yeah? What about your parse averages

Chatting

[median scroll]

banezio will still get the kill before you, bozo

[boreal quartz]

Unfair

[boreal quartz]

Very real and holiday gapped

Now let's see @median scroll raid progress

[median scroll]

[boreal quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/meme-american-psycho-business-card-gif-25561759

[gaunt owl]

[rare kite]

We started prog recently, roster boss soon again

Surely we get to p2 soon

[halcyon breach]

We could've probably have killed him by now easily if we didn't have 2 cancels and multiple roster swaps mid prog

[rare kite]

Roster boss always hardest

Our tswift took way too long coz of roster. What a slog

[halcyon breach]

We're 5 pulls away from our Tindral pullcount

At the end of the day as long as I get CE and I get out with my mental somewhat intact I'm fine with it

[rare kite]

I hope that won't be the case for us. 500+ pulls on tswift...

[halcyon breach]

We had 325 on Tindral

Which is definitely on the lower end, even post nerf, I imagine

[rare kite]

Ye for sure

[boreal quartz]

Friend of mine did 555 for fyrakk

Somehow raided 10h/week

Completely degranged

[halcyon breach]

Consider 7

[mortal vigil]

10h a week doesn't sound deranged tho?

We did like 50h a week of nzoth prog that was unhinged xdd

[astral yarrow]

wtf

i raided 5 times a week that tier and did not hit those numbers

[halcyon breach]

Surely your world rank must've been insane otherwise this is genuinely the worst case of psycho behaviour I've seen

[mortal vigil]

we got like 13th i think

[boreal quartz]

For killing boss now

It is unhinged

[halcyon breach]

I'm no WF raider or anything, but raiding these hours but not being in the top 5 sounds insane to me no joke

It does not sound sustainable in any way

[boreal quartz]

50h a week is just 2 full days tbf

Echo does a LOT more

[mortal vigil]

during the week its evenings from 19 to 24 and then on the weekend we raided noon to midnight. the thing is, we were done after 1 1/2 weeks

[halcyon breach]

Yeah I don't think you look at it just in a 50 hour span straight

[boreal quartz]

I mean ye even 24h straight is turbo demon

10h a day monkaW

[hazy flower]

nzoth looks crazy, I was checking the other day and method/fsy had like 4-5 mages??

what's up with that xd

[halcyon breach]

Fire was broken

That's all

[mortal vigil]

mage was pretty good there

[boreal quartz]

Check wf sire

Also 4 dks

Stacking turbo common

[halcyon breach]

Corruption just made some specs insanely broken and all you needed was just stat stacking

[boreal quartz]

Same for the 4(or 3 idk) arms wf sylv

[hazy flower]

looks

[astral yarrow]

hero class as per usual

😡

[halcyon breach]

Compared to other specs (dh moment) where you had to hit a god RNG pull to look good

[hazy flower]

so weird

3 of each spec

xd

[boreal quartz]

Fire is generally the turbo godspec

DF making arcane remotely usable is giga uncommon

[hazy flower]

3 unholys, 3 mms, 3 afflis, 3 boomkies

[halcyon breach]

Yet mages complain on CD that their class sucks

[hazy flower]

xd

[halcyon breach]

[boreal quartz]

Arcane did kill sylv tbt

[hazy flower]

mages complain??

[boreal quartz]

Tbf

[hazy flower]

I see priests complain

[boreal quartz]

A LOT

[hazy flower]

xd

about what

being unkillable in m+, meta in every season or being top in raid like every tier

[halcyon breach]

If they're not the absolute top for all of a season then they will think they're unwanted

Idk they'll always find something to complain about

[hazy flower]

they will still be unwanted

because average fucking mage

is dog shit

compared to most other classes

most of the specs will at least play at an x level while mages will be underperforming 99% of the time

[halcyon breach]

A lot of that also comes from the fact that people will just reroll to some broken spec but have no idea how to play said broken spec

But assume they'll do damage just by playing it

[mortal vigil]

i mained mage for a long time and mage defo has tiers where you only bring one for intellect much like warrior, their bad tiers are just rarer i suppose

[hazy flower]

1 for raid buff is not that bad

[astral yarrow]

having 3 dps specs kinda helps

[hazy flower]

but even early in this season when mage was apparently shitty in raid

it was slowly being established as meta in m+

as top teams began to run mage

and that was pre buffs n stuff

[boreal quartz]

Being called bad for doing low overall on ignite

[hazy flower]

hmmge

ramp spec

cant do big overalls in +21

[halcyon breach]

Fire is also just not it generally in low keys

[boreal quartz]

I mean ignite is just inherently the most broken fucking spec in the game

Damage pattern wise

[astral yarrow]

ignite the spec

[hazy flower]

the new spec

[boreal quartz]

No in like 26s when they dont beat the outlaw

[boreal quartz]

Ignite and flamestrike are 2 diff specs to me

I despise FS

[hazy flower]

26 is same shit as 21 essentially

it's just that players in 26 are better than in 21's

[boreal quartz]

And they say my prio made timer go faster but ppl call em bad cuz overall

[hazy flower]

but stuff still melts

[astral yarrow]

me playing mage in Castle tier and fucking up by casting too much FS

[boreal quartz]

Pointless yap

[astral yarrow]

too much FS = fewer combusts

[hazy flower]

prio is super irrelevant till cutoff+ keys

[boreal quartz]

I hate @ cursoring 24/7

[hazy flower]

if you just brute force the dam

you will time keys

big overall specs

[boreal quartz]

And the mage needs to complain regardless

[hazy flower]

people put too much pressure on that when you can just get demo or other stuff that's heavily frontloaded and destroy the packs

[tardy crag]

It's required in the mage code

How u think they always op

Constantly gaslight blizzard

[halcyon breach]

You'd think that'd make a class good

Or broken

All you gotta do is just be Blizzards favourite child

[hazy flower]

I remember visiting sp disc like week 2 or sum early shit this season and they were all yapping how they're so bad in m+

kek

after being the most broken spec after aug for entirety of season 2

[boreal quartz]

Join mage one

It's decent content

[hazy flower]

I think I joined one recently?? but I havent read shit

[tardy crag]

Mage is broken for 0.5 % of community and their strengths don't matter everywhere else

[rare kite]

Spriest was THE best m+ spec in s1 as well

[hazy flower]

I started playing in s1 and my perception was a bit different so I couldn't really say anything about that

I remember them being definitely good or very good

but that's all I can say

they were straight up top tier since the very beginning of s2

as much as everything was balanced sp was an outlier since early weeks

[rare kite]

Outlier s1 and s2

[boreal quartz]

The worst mage spec is twice as good as the best hunter

[untold trench]

Any improvements for sword and board arms, that you guys can spot off the bat?

[boreal quartz]

Grab ip

Equip 2h

[frigid lava]

Mage is always top tier

[umbral sluice]

Undercooked spec, try again.

[untold trench]

You got anything to add to why it is undercooked - and what could be improved?

[umbral sluice]

Missing ip, 2h, ep, stamina, pain and gain

Imp ss not that hot imo

But it all depends on context, you only need optimal talents for somewhat higher keys

[proud plover]

1h+shieeld arms?

[umbral sluice]

Ah mb didn’t realize you are playing some meme spec

[frigid lava]

what is sword and board arms

[umbral sluice]

Just do whatever

[frigid lava]

Is it like surf and turf

[untold trench]

Sword and Board, 1h+Shield, indeed

it doesnt do too badly overall

[proud plover]

rotation is ww spam then exeecute?

[frigid lava]

What skills do you use with shield? lol

[hazy flower]

is 90k pala 450 ilv

[untold trench]

Still working on it, but it is very execute heavy, with slam/ww/shieldslam

[proud plover]

can you cast ms?

or op

[frigid lava]

Where is the benefit

[untold trench]

No MS/Cleave, but OP works

benefit is more armor, I guess?

[halcyon breach]

There is no benefit

[frigid lava]

Run fury and add shit ton stamina

[untold trench]

Fury 1h and shield doesnt work

all abilities are blocked basically

[frigid lava]

No i mean dual wield 2h

[untold trench]

That wouldnt be sword and board tho

[woven wasp]

press t

spec prot

[frigid lava]

t

yea spec prot lol

and troll in pvp

[sharp wyvern]

Just make prot use 2h weapons and be warrior the one class that doest wear 1handers

[untold trench]

Prot is only fun as 2hand

Big executes

[frigid lava]

Make SMF Great Again

[untold trench]

Fun fact, prot executes got twice the base dam than arms exe

[sharp wyvern]

But prot doesn't have Juggernaut does it

[untold trench]

it does

[sharp wyvern]

[proud plover]

drop sks and take imp slam (big dam from ww fob) and pickup up mbg to also buff ww damage

[frigid lava]

Does execute make MS great ?

[untold trench]

I need ST tho, not AoE, as my AoE is totally fine - ya think it is worth?

Well, gonna give it a try

[frigid lava]

My DPS seems like it's stuck.

I don't have much upgrades to do... at this point (besides vault)

Maybe because Blizzard tuned warriors with leggo as standard

[proud plover]

you arent going to have st pump without ms so might as well buff what you alreeady have - ww/fob/execute

[untold trench]

ST with SKS seems alright ish tho

140-180k

Gonna give WW build a try, if ST doesnt faceplant too much, it is prob worth

[proud plover]

good luck cooking 🙂

what size keys you running?

[clever crag]

Yup

And rogue still shits on it

Any day of the week

[untold trench]

18-22s, dont want to risk killing pugs keys

[proud plover]

lmao

[frigid lava]

I'm pretty sure up to +23 is pretty breezy...

[clever crag]

They ruin your keys

Why not brick theirs

[frigid lava]

I wiped so many damn times in BRD (healer dc's half the game) but still timed +21

[untold trench]

My rule of thumb is: If I cant carry it with meme build, I dont meme build, so if they all try to brick their key - I can still save it just going mainbuild for half the key, as a security net.

[proud plover]

id donate a key just to see it in action tbh, think i let keys rot to +18 atm tho

patch in morning, pirate gamers unite

[untold trench]

yarrr

[proud plover]

https://tenor.com/view/black-flag-pirates-bfp-pirate-pirate-life-life-gif-7335403123876162922

[frigid lava]

My sub just expired... guess Im going to wait

[frigid lava]

Another long maintenance 😦

[proud plover]

patch day my man

[frigid lava]

is it for real this time?

[proud plover]

yes

[gaunt owl]

Its taking longer because they are cancelling s4

[frigid lava]

I don't think there is any change to warrior though, right?

[proud plover]

nah class tuning will happen before s4 while we 'live test' it for them

[gaunt owl]

Warrior deleted

[frigid lava]

I knew it

[gaunt owl]

They need the space for next xpac

[proud plover]

warrior neew support spec?

shout motivation from close

throw a banner or two at players

[frigid lava]

cheer leader

[proud plover]

rofl

hidden hero tree

[frigid lava]

looking for the patchnote

https://www.wowhead.com/guide/dragonflight-patch-10-2-6-pirates-overview

[gaunt owl]

We are a cheer leading spec

We are in raid for 2 shout

[frigid lava]

My throat hurts just thinking about it

[proud plover]

there is no info released about it

its a pira....suprise

[frigid lava]

So it's an event.

[tardy crag]

It's probably trash don't resub true real

[boreal quartz]

Until execute

[frigid lava]

Im unemployed retiree

got all the time

probably end up subbing... 😦

log on, run M+, log off

[tardy crag]

Just play ff and fish

True gamer time

[frigid lava]

ff that good?

[tardy crag]

It's good to chill

I play wow when I wanna be competitive

Quests are like 30x more interesting on ff

[gaunt ginkgo]

Personally, I play FF for raid, WoW for m+

But I don't mythic raid in WoW anymore, so take that as you will

[broken sun]

what would change in s4 gameplay wise
guess only sudden death proc goes down in priority spending+maybe ms during execute?

[minor gust]

I could never get into FF14 gameplay even as I got to max lvl but the story kept me playing to the end

[frigid lava]

I just have hard on for AA first pull troar.

[proud plover]

keeping the tier proc running so ms has a prio again

[latent moss]

ye u ms regularly in exe

[frigid lava]

no tier change for s4?

[latent moss]

with s1 tier

[gaunt ginkgo]

FF starts incredibly slowly, gameplay wise. Painfully so. But max, it's fast paced enough with most jobs having a fair amount of oGCDs + interesting raid fights that it keeps me interested

[latent moss]

we are going back to s1

[frigid lava]

oh.. just s1?

[proud plover]

yeah

[broken sun]

and ms > sudden death proc

[frigid lava]

what's the name of tier... looking it up.

[gaunt owl]

Dont worry im gonna curse the spec even more next tier

[frigid lava]

walking mountain?

[gaunt owl]

You guys are in for a wild ride

[minor gust]

even at max lvl the combat just felt incredibly janky. I still think wow has the smoothest Tab target combat gameplay and no other game comes close

[proud plover]

how you cursing it - no ip rage spend, no sks

[frigid lava]

https://www.wowhead.com/item-set=1538/stones-of-the-walking-mountain

[gaunt owl]

Cancelaura forbidden no jutsu

[frigid lava]

blizzard mastered that thing over 2 decades.

[proud plover]

no SD cancelaura in execute phase?

[minor gust]

FF14 still a good game tho worth trying if u like mmos

[gaunt ginkgo]

Oh no question, FF14 tab targetting is straight-up garbage, even with making adjustments to the settings to make it better (cone vs whatever default is, and some other stuff). The bad netcode makes some stuff janky/weird (specifically snapshotting, which also changes from ability to ability and so you have to learn the timings). But I still find the fights satisfying to execute, and it's more fun for me to otpimize there than in WoW raids

[frigid lava]

I might go back to fury... for S4

[minor gust]

Wow really needs to learn to design fights with well telegraphed attacks like FF14 IDC if it doesnt match the theme

im really tired of red circle on red floor with a red boss

[gaunt ginkgo]

Rotations in that game are also a lot less RNG than WoW, with very minimal procs, so that's either a pro or a con depending on the person

[proud plover]

what the fuck the 'event' isnt eeven in wow...

[minor gust]

im going to freak out if I have to deal with that shit again

[gaunt ginkgo]

Oh absolutely, I despise WoW's complete and utter disregard for visual clarity

I hated it before playing a lot of FF14, and coming back from a solid break makes me hate it even more xD

[frigid lava]

i think blizzard acknowledged the visual has become overwhelming.

[gaunt ginkgo]

I mean, they can acknowledge it, but they don't really do much about it

[minor gust]

they have but they don't do anything about it

they just keep doing it

[frigid lava]

I can't see shit in a big raid.. I mean sometimes in M+s too

[minor gust]

they keep making the same mistake over and over and over and over again

[gaunt ginkgo]

Happens all the time in m+

[minor gust]

they literally said in an interview after SL they don't want to do insane hard bosses with raid wipe mechanics then they proceeded to make Tswift and Fyrakk

they have said that nerfing a boss is a failure and yet still every end boss needs countless nerfs

[gaunt ginkgo]

Blizz has a nasty habit of
a) doing overlapping colours for thematic reasons (Nymue is a good example currently, Denathrius in SL really stands out, etc)
b) having spell effect hitboxes not match their visual. DHT plants come to mind on this one, before they fixed it

[frigid lava]

Tswift and Fyrakk Obama. Illuminati confirmed

[minor gust]

Blizzard said they don't care about RWF and don't want to balance the raid for them and yet every DF tier they still tune bosses for RWF players

Blizz needs to grow some balls and kill RWF by having the difficulty at the lvl where Liquid kills the end boss in 2 days

[frigid lava]

what's RWF

[minor gust]

because thats prob the difficulty top 1000 CE guilds can comfortable do without nerfs

[copper swan]

race world first

[minor gust]

Race World first

[frigid lava]

icic

[tardy crag]

Guys it's Battle royal time

[slow saddle]

hmm

i think visual has been good

this raid

its not terrible, setup ya system to remove worst clutter.

[astral yarrow]

That leaves the rest of us that wants to (and can) kill the same bosses, just without the insane amount of splits

[slow saddle]

consider turning up contrast

[astral yarrow]

we had Tindral at 6% before post RWF nerfs came in

that fucking sucked

[minor gust]

I bet

its an awful feeling

they need to stick to their guns and take to heart that having to nerf a boss is a failure

[astral yarrow]

Echo and liquid kill boss and then they get wing clipped for Instant Dollars and FSY to kill them lol

Nah, i just view it as an issue of gear progression not being long enough

killing the final boss and having very minor upgrades to get is kinda weird

[minor gust]

it is but I really enjoy the current gear pacing

Maybe the game really could use an ICC buff

or the helm enchant getting stronger

[astral yarrow]

i'd like it more if the progression was 486 in 4 weeks, not 2

[proud plover]

im ok with things like helm enchant gaining power - but leave the grind for it behind

[astral yarrow]

and after the 4th week, 486 is pretty easy to acquire (if you have help obv)

[minor gust]

Grind for it doesnt feel like a big deal because u just do the raid and call it a day

[proud plover]

thats a good idea - clear the raid and gain some power for it or something

[minor gust]

thats what the helm enchant was

[shadow ibex]

That's the helm enchant

[minor gust]

grind raid for 5 weeks

get borrowed power

[proud plover]

nah i mean every week after it gets a little stronger

[minor gust]

yeah

[astral yarrow]

helm enchant was not big enough to be a substantial nerf factor

[visual fern]

Well you see, wow's big competitor - Lost Ark - released the hardest raid to date so bigBlizza had to follow suit shortly after

[astral yarrow]

[minor gust]

honestly max had a cool take

[proud plover]

is la still a thing?

[shadow ibex]

I don't want some proc dealing more % of my DMG

[last inlet]

Lost ark still exists?

[minor gust]

make smoldy the end boss for gear and CE and the last two bosses of a tier are cosmetic nuts to butts only

[smoky kayak]

Arms Season 1 tier buffed in Season 4

Vault of the Incarnates (4) Set Bonus: Bonus damage and Critical Strike chance increased to 8% (was 5%).```

[proud plover]

make it gain a stat bonus aswell that increases in % after evry raid clear/week

[shadow ibex]

Idk those mid raid wall bosses are boring

Smoldy and sludge fist are just patchwork

[minor gust]

make the last two insanely difficult bosses but its all for the cosmetics

[daring heron]

holy

wait what

thats a huge buff to the set

[proud plover]

trinket tuning!

[minor gust]

Crit dmg always big

[gaunt owl]

LETS GOOO

[last inlet]

LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO STONKS

[gaunt owl]

[obtuse copper]

Epic buffs

[proud plover]

New glyphs have been added to transform the appearance of the recently updated Covenant abilities back to their old Covenant visuals. They can be purchased from the Covenant quartermasters. - this is a win

[shadow ibex]

No proc just dam

[obtuse copper]

Huuuuge

Was hoping they'd do that

Would tbh also be sick if they experimented and gave us entirely new glyphs with new animations etc.

[tepid wigeon]

Arms

[shadow ibex]

Let me keep old exe animation

[hazy flower]

what are covenant abilities

xd

[obtuse copper]

[proud plover]

my monks jadefire stomp being horrid

[last inlet]

[visual fern]

Thaemine releasing in 1 month

[hazy flower]

so I need to do SL stuff

to unlock convenants

[last inlet]

i thought it was dead for NA

[hazy flower]

to change my fucking exe animation

pog

love doing unnecessary legacy content

[tepid wigeon]

the execute animation is tied to the Massacre talent no?

[gaunt owl]

It is time im gonna curse the spec boys

[gaunt owl]

Yup

[visual fern]

It was and still is
I just have my solid groups of friends that are playing which is all I need

[hazy flower]

y rn but they said smth about glyph

[visual fern]

A lot of people jumping ship after thaemine

[tepid wigeon]

yeah that only affects the recently changed effects like spear

[last inlet]

man, i wish my IRL friend still played it, slayer was SUPER FUN!

[visual fern]

Wish @buoyant idol would ping me for akkan

🪦

[last inlet]

[proud plover]

think they will add the s4 data so it can be datamined - like a fated vendor with leggo upgrade on it

[slow saddle]

Do we rly need that big if a ilvl jump

[fringe moon]

Nice, our s4 tier bonus buffed???

[proud plover]

yes so everything is an upgrade

[fringe moon]

Can’t wait for the fated vendor

Wonder which trinkets we’ll be using in s4. Anvil again? Double stat stick? Puzzlebox? So many to choose from

[proud plover]

signet/augury/anvil/beacon all come to mind

icon/oce trinkets got nerfed

[olive nest]

Blazing bloodhoof

[tender pecan]

Pips angle

[quasi torrent]

oce nerf is very slight

[obtuse copper]

:aware:

[fringe moon]

Oh man..grieftorch for prog

[obtuse copper]

I member Hoof being huge in 10.0 because it lined up super nice with Sks

[olive nest]

🤫

[fringe moon]

Dathea trinket for pad lol

[obtuse copper]

Dathea trinket for death

[olive nest]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/975072449404207176/1065343394425090120/MSbun.gif

[tender pecan]

Dathea trink

[minor gust]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/148898720803586048/1068982807847776286/MSbun.gif

[daring heron]

cant wait to play full immobile/uncontrollable arms build with double bs/pbox/dathea trinket

add spear too

[minor gust]

the true uncontrolable Slayer build

[olive nest]

Lmao

[vital zealot]

And leggo

[copper swan]

and leg

[obtuse copper]

And colossus

[daring heron]

oh yeah leggo and demolish in prepatch

[minor gust]

about 10 apm

[olive nest]

Idk who the clowns where that voted s1 arms set

Get em outta here!

[obtuse copper]

Yeah should've voted for the other two worse sets

[olive nest]

S3 owns

[obtuse copper]

I have not played with it so it sucks by default

[minor gust]

S3 ruined execute phase im good

[tender pecan]

S3 is ass

[minor gust]

S1 superiourity

[olive nest]

HUH

We have had the most build versatility in keys this season

[copper swan]

at least for the fact that it's the set we didn't play since the longest time

the competion wasn't hard y

but still

[exotic kestrel]

The single bladestorm build we ended up with is pretty Pog, im very down to press cleave again tho

[olive nest]

Hard locked double bldestorm build for all of fated

Can’t wait

[exotic kestrel]

🤢

[olive nest]

S1 dOeS bIgGeSt NuMbr

[exotic kestrel]

i voted s1 not for numbers, but for possible cleave playing

[tender pecan]

I like playing with 100 rage too

[exotic kestrel]

as long as sks stays deadge

[tender pecan]

They should revert sks

[exotic kestrel]

and im not forced into FoB im happy

[exotic kestrel]

thats wild

[minor gust]

S1 for

Fuck ethical dmg

[obtuse copper]

Man

[minor gust]

big aoe

[obtuse copper]

Colossus is living rent free in my head

[frigid lava]

cleave or dreadnaught... hmmm

[obtuse copper]

Legit cannot stop malding about how they named the tree Colossus which is directly related to the most boring cooldown in the game and they actually did nothing to make it more interesting

[minor gust]

both

[obtuse copper]

Avatar is like the perfect candidate to add a secondary stat boost or some temporary CDR or smth to

[gaunt owl]

Wont we get Demolish only at 71?

[minor gust]

it hurts more when u realize they took away the increased size part out of Avatar just to add it back in colossus with a boring % dmg node

[olive nest]

Hero talents in preparch sounds sweet but idk if we’ll get them before leveling

[obtuse copper]

Did they tho

[lone imp]

I thought the size on avatar was a glyph

[frigid lava]

I just remember the brief period of time... you were literally immune to movement imparing.

[obtuse copper]

I think so too ye but it'd be sick if we at least got the first node at lvl 70 tbh

[frigid lava]

fuck them ice mages

[gaunt owl]

We do still grow with Avatar no?

[minor gust]

wasnt og Avatar also make u bigger

[obtuse copper]

It still does

[minor gust]

oh it just doesnt say it in the tooltip anymore huh

[obtuse copper]

Always has been 🧑‍🚀 🔫 🧑‍🚀

[exotic kestrel]

kek

mad about something thats not even gone

[minor gust]

Never noticed cuz its so small

Either way colossus tree has to be the worst one they made next to lightsmith and oracle

[lone imp]

Ah victory rush is the size glyph

[exotic kestrel]

it has the potential to be pog

it also has the potential to be dog

[minor gust]

even if Demolish fucks good and is amazing it doesnt execuse most of the nodes being pure boring % dmg increase

[gaunt owl]

Its pale in comparison to Slayer

[next sphinx]

But we get all the nodes and that makes tuning easier for them?

[exotic kestrel]

idk im not insanly pogging about either tree, but both look to atleast have potential

[minor gust]

thats not the point its about fun and creativity. you can make dmg increases in a fun way or interesting way.

Colossus has a vers but not vers node

[exotic kestrel]

so its a fun and creative way of giving us a vers node is what ur saying

[minor gust]

[next sphinx]

Talents will never be fun and creative their will always be some nerd with a calculator ruining it for the rest of us. If you want to be the specialist boy just change your choice nodes every 2 minutes

[exotic kestrel]

idk i dont get the obsession that every node has to be some wacky creative interesting thing

the tree offers a gameplay direction;/loop and has some nice safe passive buffs

fine with me

[latent moss]

ye i just wish

[next sphinx]

Colossus should have a bigger size increase only complaint I have so far

[latent moss]

demolish replaces bladestorm

for arms

otherwise it will be really weird

[exotic kestrel]

thatd be good

[next sphinx]

Every node in Colossus should give a 5% size increase in combat

[latent moss]

having to demolish AND bladestorm

[minor gust]

sounds about right

[exotic kestrel]

i have 2 concerns with colossus tbh,

1. the channel on demolish might be actual dogshit
2. With all the things u get by stacking the dmg increase on demolish u might not even wanna press it

[next sphinx]

Well demolish locks your gcd right? I really feel like you should be able to continue your rotation while it channels..

[exotic kestrel]

its a channeld abillity

[minor gust]

yeah it could become an annoying mini game of aligning CS and Demolish everytime

[latent moss]

well

[exotic kestrel]

As long as its hasted, has a good animation and does pog dmg, i think its fine

[latent moss]

we dont know anything about arms in tww

and its most likely getting big gameplay changes

[exotic kestrel]

remove ToM

[latent moss]

since atm its pretty dysfunctional

[latent moss]

ye

1. tom doesn't interact with colossus and slayer

which is weird

[next sphinx]

Get rid of all abilities except these ones: CS, MS, execute, demolish and BS.

[exotic kestrel]

it even negatively interacts with slayer

[latent moss]

arms negatively interacts with slayer in execute phase

it wants u to press op but u cant

[exotic kestrel]

[latent moss]

which leads me to believe they have something cooked

for dps warriors

[exotic kestrel]

i hope so

[latent moss]

since fury is pretty fucked as well

from the fury trees it seems quite obvious that their intention

is to make the rotation revolve around BT and use RB as a filler

[exotic kestrel]

As long as we keep the core rotation revolving around buffing MS and hitting MS im fine tbh

[copper swan]

surely the WAR whitin will have smthg good for wars

[exotic kestrel]

[latent moss]

i honestly couldnt care less about m+ utility

all we need is buffed rally and something to deal with incorp

[hazy flower]

changed rally*

rather than buff

the way rally works right now

it's useless

for most things

it only helps with oneshots

[exotic kestrel]

idk id like easier access to Shockwave, so we atleast have something but thats already confirmed anyway

[latent moss]

isnt that the point of it

but ye they could make it a shield

like mass barrier

[hazy flower]

or dr

[exotic kestrel]

aoe BR

[latent moss]

i dont think they would want to go down the dr route

[exotic kestrel]

memeing

[latent moss]

tuning nightmare imo

[latent moss]

if they go the shield route

it should be 30%

idc mage is 20% on a shorter cd

and they already have a bunch of shit going for them

we need rally to be busted

in m+

if rally isnt busted we are shit

[exotic kestrel]

was about to say

30% shield on full raid

would be wild

[latent moss]

how big was rally in sl

with old inspiring presence

[teal fossil]

like 28% at the end of the expac?

[latent moss]

wasnt max crying about it in sod

so they nerfed it in sepulcher

or am i misremembering

[proud plover]

What they need to do is have rally double in power when not in a raid so it's not busted in raid

[latent moss]

20% rally is a lot better but its not enough

as myrt said

its only situationally useful

while mass barrier for example

isnt always useful but its useful more often than rally

[teal fossil]

rally is just a worse shield in m+ most of the time

[proud plover]

I'm OK with it just being hp increase

[sacred zodiac]

i think they should just put this as a talent that also increases its duration by like 3 seconds but i fear that might have a low pickrate and get pruned

[latent moss]

AND 5%

they should bring back inspiring presence make it so that if it affects 5 people it grants a 30% shield instead

so its low pickrate in raid

[quasi torrent]

(100%)

[proud plover]

I'd just like it to feel like I've pressed it tvh

Nothing too busted tho, shields and Dr might be too much

[exotic kestrel]

Would be cool if it did something against movement effects

would be cool if i could rally on fyrakk dreamrend and people dont get pulled

[tardy crag]

More likely that interaction would goto dk

In some way

[exotic kestrel]

fuck dk's

[tardy crag]

Just mass deaths advance

True but yea

[proud plover]

Move speed for the duration could be nice

[versed carbon]

ay

hey

what set are we getting in S4 ?

[sour forge]

S2

[versed carbon]

cuz im reading this rn

[sour forge]

1*

Ya that’s the set

[versed carbon]

dam is this the better one ?

i like s3

[teal fossil]

where are you seeing this

[versed carbon]

set

[teal fossil]

its more damage but its entirely passive

[versed carbon]

patch note with the plunderstorm thing

[steep osprey]

It's the one coming for s4

[fresh tide]

it's what people voted for

[warped spade]

Half the cd on it in dungeons. 1.5min would be the same as aug mini rally

[versed carbon]

bruh but i feel like its a bit boring

[sharp wyvern]

arms sets are all boring

[fresh tide]

it's turbo boring

[sharp wyvern]

so we chose the one that looks strongest

[versed carbon]

s3 feels fun

[teal fossil]

s3 is more fun than the other 2 for sure

[fresh tide]

S3 is way more fun, yeah

[versed carbon]

yeah

[teal fossil]

also lets you spread bleeds much better in m+

[sharp wyvern]

its just a sudden death proc

[sour forge]

At least arms got real tuning compared to fury

[hazy flower]

makes me wonder

how they would tune s3 set

since its worse than s2 numbers wise as it is right now

[sharp wyvern]

now if they revert fervor we can actually have S1 gameplay

[hazy flower]

and if they buffed season 1 which is performing better than s2 numerically

[versed carbon]

whos exited for plunderstorm

[teal fossil]

is it worse than s2

i thought its a bit better

[hazy flower]

I may be outdated

[sharp wyvern]

no one

[warped spade]

S2 was fine until Aug came in and fucked a lot of things

[versed carbon]

they did

[teal fossil]

like tiny bit

[hazy flower]

they did buff the TC

to 200%

it was worse pre buffs

[teal fossil]

S2 set was not good in AOE at all

[hazy flower]

thats for sure

[teal fossil]

and it was entirely passive on st

[hazy flower]

idk how it stands post buffs

[hybrid bolt]

also chose the one that had the most flexibility for builds i think too right?

[latent moss]

y

cleave builds

[hazy flower]

mbg aa

[latent moss]

mbg is back in its full glory

[hazy flower]

[versed carbon]

well yeah back to cleave hh

[teal fossil]

also wtf is plunderstorm

can someone link a video

[hazy flower]

5m opener

in aa

[versed carbon]

battlee royal wow

[latent moss]

i hate cleave fishing

[sharp wyvern]

in the battle front map

[latent moss]

with 4p

in opener

[versed carbon]

plunderstorm i nyoutube

[sharp wyvern]

as we all know arathi is very piratey

[versed carbon]

look rlly fun ngl

[hazy flower]

idk I havent played it so long I forgor

I only did tiny bit of keys with mbg alone

in s2

late season

[latent moss]

basically u do everything and then u cleave to fish for 4p

right before all the big damooge

hurricane and shit

[hazy flower]

hmmge

I'll look into it

[teal fossil]

that was a minor optimization yeah

but its not a big deal

you should be doing it anyways

[latent moss]

stil want to do it

[teal fossil]

but it feels bad if you dont hit it

[latent moss]

now that its 8%

u definitely want to do it

also

what the fuck

[teal fossil]

why tf did we vote for this

[latent moss]

are those spriest buffs

[latent moss]

big numbers

biggest numbers out of any tier

s2 had big mortal strikes and thats it

[sharp wyvern]

mortal strike buffs > TC buffs

[latent moss]

s1 big ms big exe

big cleave

im happy with s2

s1*

[versed carbon]

going biig

so the S4 patcc h is here not open yet ?

[teal fossil]

not gonna be here for a minute

[grand idol]

Tier set buffed but still not at its full power, unfortunate lol

[valid walrus]

Cleave back on the menu?

[modest marlin]

evoker legendary upgrade item datamined, so good chance axe stays relevant

[sour forge]

Considering it’s part of the tier, yes

[grand idol]

So i guess get it now

[last inlet]

[dusty dagger]

Gonna get lego right before we need to upgrade it for s4

[last inlet]

i still don't have it on any toon aswell, started late.

[dusty dagger]

solidarity brotha

[last inlet]

https://tenor.com/view/good-luck-fingers-crossed-crossing-my-fingers-gif-7207830

[proud plover]

Let's hope the blp carries over so everyone can get it early enough to matter

[last inlet]

ikr

[proud plover]

1 dinar, what trinket we buying

[last inlet]

is it really 1 dinar?

or just a guess?

[proud plover]

Says cap of 1

[last inlet]

F

[proud plover]

So nfi until we know

[last inlet]

blizz hates me, gotta pick a trinket now

if its 1 that is

[proud plover]

At least we aren't playing fury and buying asskandi

[dusty dagger]

it's only raid trinks ye?

[olive nest]

Ye

From all 3 raids

Ofc

[last inlet]

beacon >:)

[proud plover]

Storm eaters boon

[last inlet]

ohhhhh i forgot about that 1

[dusty dagger]

just gonna get pips lmfao, full brainrot

[last inlet]

stat sticks a fun but i like the DMG trinkets.

[proud plover]

Pips? At least go for icon or oce

[last inlet]

^

[olive nest]

Whatever sims the highest while also allowing me to think less

[last inlet]

[proud plover]

Anvil

[dusty dagger]

my man

[last inlet]

just bind anvil to everything

ez clap

[proud plover]

Everything? Just bind it to ms

[olive nest]

Totally didn’t have Anvil bound to MS for all of s2

XD

[last inlet]

nah everything

well mainly MS but i say everything becouse of the meme

[proud plover]

Pretty sure I'm still using the same macro now

[olive nest]

Me too.. never removed the line

[halcyon oriole]

so S4 set is the S1 one, was it the best dps increase ? Asking because it is also the most boring one

[olive nest]

It’s the best simming one yeah

That’s why it was popular

[dusty dagger]

Zzz

[olive nest]

Well, that’s just what I read here

I didn’t actually sim that myself

So read that with some salt

[last inlet]

Crit Damage=valuable

[halcyon oriole]

I voted for S3, but I understand haha

[dusty dagger]

I'm ok with not taking TC for s4 tbf

[last inlet]

wait

we don't take thunder clap? for S4?

TC is thunder clap right? off the top of my head

[dusty dagger]

you can but it's main appeal was adding rend to the s3 tier sudden death mechanic

[last inlet]

i mean i had TC even in S1

[olive nest]

You still take it because it applies rend

[last inlet]

for AoE/rage dump

[dusty dagger]

in m+ i think yeah you take it, but single target?

[last inlet]

i did