arms

[boreal quartz]

Ms crit gap too

[exotic kestrel]

• going out of range with blazes and other mechanics and stuff

[boreal quartz]

Blaze u can just plant and dps

Better than moving a lot

[exotic kestrel]

yeh i think im playing "too" safe atm

[boreal quartz]

In 99% of the time in the entire boss

Bar P2

[boreal quartz]

It's not safer that's the thing

Rather stay in melee and IP

[exotic kestrel]

i usally take 2 blazes if i try that tho

[hazy flower]

Just plant the blaze ye

[boreal quartz]

Move along your line

[hazy flower]

Ideally

[boreal quartz]

2 is livable anyways

Even on arms

[hazy flower]

Dont move at all unless its along the line

[hazy flower]

Yea and no

[boreal quartz]

Only phase u wanna run blaze is P2

[hazy flower]

Furakk is not a fight where you’re topped 24/7

You can survive 2 id youre topped

[boreal quartz]

It's livable but cringe for crit flask so avoid it

[exotic kestrel]

i do move along my line only, or i sprint and plant

but we have a couple of blaze snipers..

[uncut stag]

Will Fy'ralath legendary be used in season 4?

[exotic kestrel]

were forced to run vers flask 😄

[boreal quartz]

If they let us up the ilvl

[boreal quartz]

I have the alchi perks so flask is whatever

[exotic kestrel]

Yeh were just rly trying to go for CE so every little bit of survivabillty helps

[boreal quartz]

Plus 99% of the deaths are overkill beyond the flask

[exotic kestrel]

Tindral + roster issues kinda fcked us

[boreal quartz]

Tindral one of the bosses of all time

[exotic kestrel]

we got him to like 13% before nerf

insta killed him the week of nerf

[hazy flower]

Idk shouldn’t run crit flask on prog imo

Reclear is w.e

[exotic kestrel]

yeh i dont mind

[hazy flower]

Extra heal for healers when they’re struggling already bc new stuff and mechanics

Na

[boreal quartz]

Scared bitch (i went fury for the best pulls)

[exotic kestrel]

im rly hoping to avoid fury prison

i was in fury prison for tindral

[boreal quartz]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/QbNKAwWX7D8dZmk6#fight=33&type=damage-done

Fury good tbf

[hazy flower]

Double bitch

Im not that scared tho its just mostly our rl yelling on echo

[boreal quartz]

Look at our comp i dont have wft for arms

[hazy flower]

Because most of us were playign crit flasks

[hazy flower]

Me neither

[boreal quartz]

Look at it

[exotic kestrel]

idk i dont "hate" playing fury but idefo dont like it

[boreal quartz]

Please

[hazy flower]

??

???

[boreal quartz]

Very blue comp

[exotic kestrel]

we had a rogue quit so i have wft as arms again 😉

[hazy flower]

How

[boreal quartz]

[hazy flower]

Do u not have wft

[boreal quartz]

I do

[hazy flower]

Wait

[boreal quartz]

Im memeing

[hazy flower]

Let me guess

Ah

Jekw

[boreal quartz]

We have 3

[hazy flower]

Was gonna say that

[exotic kestrel]

lol

[boreal quartz]

That's the joke cuz 3 is obscene

[exotic kestrel]

Imagine if it stacked

[boreal quartz]

Such a funny little comp

[exotic kestrel]

fury would go wild

[boreal quartz]

Would be insane on fury ye

[hazy flower]

Only 6 people benefit from wft so it wasnt worthwile to play for 1 arms player wft in raid

But ye

Kekw

Bc rn

I have 2 rogues fdk and fury

Wft over me

[boreal quartz]

Stealing wft from all the other guilds

[hazy flower]

man skyrim is so goated

started playing 2 days ago

[boreal quartz]

Idk im on a trip and only got laptop here what game do i play

[hazy flower]

homm3

easy

[exotic kestrel]

i ruined 2 guildies lives by introducing them to monster hunter world

[astral yarrow]

4k was banger RTS when i was without internet in Mali and Burkina Faso

The old school warhammer games

Literally sat in a clay hut at one point playing Warhammer

[boreal quartz]

Idk if ill play an rts on a trackpad

So i might just play some potion making game or so

Or slave youtube

[astral yarrow]

It was fine. I just played campaign stuff

[boreal quartz]

Lmao

[astral yarrow]

although if you have sticky touch pad it kinda blows

[boreal quartz]

Why were you there

[boreal quartz]

Im just scared of any rightclick + drag involving activities cuz of apple lacking dedicated click buttons

So i didnt play BG3

[astral yarrow]

My dad works some EU funded projects through an organization called Danida. We went to Mali and Burkina Faso to check up on some project sites. Actually quite close to Timbuktu at one point

Lotta meetings, lotta driving, crackers and water

I also had the best fish i've ever eaten and gotten the worst diarrhea because of it

[hazy flower]

[boreal quartz]

Very coo

Im at a trucking company we work with and get to see their business a bit maybe even come on a delivery

I hate train internet

[fresh spire]

Phillips lagger

[astral yarrow]

Public internet is the worst

[rare kite]

Worth it?

[astral yarrow]

I remember it as worth it, as im not a fish person

it was so good

[rare kite]

Nice, i also don't really like fish but swordfish is too good

[flint inlet]

How's arms looking for M+ in s4? Is fury likely to be the dominant spec still?

[reef glade]

arms does more dmg most of the time but fury bit more survivable in the highest of keys, not that arms isn’t tank enough on its own cuz it still is a beefy boy

Or u mean s4

[boreal quartz]

It's fire sp X in S4

[reef glade]

idk same old probably

[boreal quartz]

Unless tuning which never happens

[astral yarrow]

warrior sucks 🙂

[boreal quartz]

Okay aagardsneak

[reef glade]

maybe fury has more aoe than this season in which case arguable whether that or arms more dps in keys

but s1 arms set was fun

cleave sandwich poggin

[astral yarrow]

"we'll of course balance the tier sets anew"

[proud plover]

we didnt have current op tuning/buffs in s1. will cleave even compare

[boreal quartz]

Cleave also got buffed

[marble plume]

is it possible to merge dreadnaugt and OP in details?

[swift shell]

Hey did archimtiros, or any theory crafter said anything about the slayer three ?

[astral yarrow]

https://tenor.com/view/check-the-pins-kowalski-penguin-gif-20219688

[obtuse copper]

He was going to but the Slayer community cancelled him 😔

[gaunt owl]

[exotic kestrel]

i fully believed slayer would have juggernaught interaction. It seems a bit meh overall but it looks like it could* play realy well

[astral yarrow]

How would you know how it plays

[exotic kestrel]

yeh sorry corrected

i defo dont have a uncle at blizzard

[astral yarrow]

got that F&F access on lock

[exotic kestrel]

MS after charge seems pog af

[gaunt owl]

Juggernaut is the most frustrating buff ever with our tier sets

It can die

We already have too many stuff that requires us to have 100% uptime

[warped ether]

They could make it like 30 sec buff

Isn’t it 12 sec rn or something like that ?

[frigid lava]

I like mindless button spamming.

that's why i switched from fury

[exotic kestrel]

i get that trying to keep up jugger above 35% is rough, but i do like the escalating damage in execute window

[quasi torrent]

just dont have it apply above 35 -> no cringe frfr

[exotic kestrel]

fine with me

[warped ether]

Imagine if you get lucky enough to have it at 90% uptime in a key

[untold trench]

If they want jugg to perma stack, or have more stacks, having it stick on the target executed would be the best option. This to avoid m+ and other ways to cheese it.

They could even mix the two. Having exe granting you jugg, and the target vournability.

Then you could have the best of both worlds, without it turning full degen in m+

[proud plover]

18 ad without even trying to maintain buff its uptime is deecent

prolly a better indication to see stacks

[past zephyr]

which talent is the one that gives arms the obliterate style execute animation. it's so fucking awesome

[exotic kestrel]

massacre

[trim smelt]

Will the legendary be bis in the season4? Or did some of us farm it for 3-4 months to play it 1.5 months and ditch it forever

[exotic kestrel]

all depends on if we get to up its ilvl

(we probably will)

[solid hare]

They will most likely treat it how they did with the hunter legendary in Shadowlands going into S4 then same with the evoker legendary prob

I just cant remember if they used the Dinar for it or not

[fresh spire]

Dinar gave upgrade item I think

Drop rates of bow was massively buffed at one point

People who had bow had token drop to upgrade it instead on chance or some garbage

[warped ether]

I mean is Ashkandar even remotely good enough to compete with it ?

[neon hedge]

Fury is eating good with that combo tho

[reef glade]

ain’t no way

Don’t think I ever saw ashk do more than 3-4% dam a majority of the time

sometimes u highrolled on humanoids and it maybe got to like 6% but can’t imagine it’s anywhere near as good

also leggo is “very rare” ilvl so it’s already 7 ilvls higher than equally obtained ashk

[solid hare]

only reason someone got an ashk is if they r running fury spec and even then they need to compair stats with other weapons

[sacred zodiac]

ashkandur would not do extra damage against you

[reef glade]

[fresh spire]

Fury will use it in offhand for sure

Arms won't use it at all with legendary

Before the hasted buff they was close on damage on sims at same ilvl

But axe is ahead now

Also should be higher ilvl as base

Biggest thing is is they normalise the ilvl of 2nd raid

As last boss had higher ilvl items as it lacked upgrades before

[crimson charm]

I'll go with the assumption that we'll be able to upgrade the leggy somehow

[buoyant axle]

i hope so too cuz i am like 2 weeks away from 100% dropp and imagine it gets "useless" next season

im gonna do unholy things to myself

if that happens

[dire hinge]

Yeh I bet it’ll just take a dinar, similar to SL Hunter bow*

Fingers crossed acquisition is more polite, for those who don’t have it in season 4

BLP increase is nice but farming old content for weeks is silly

[buoyant axle]

let me innnnn

[fresh spire]

No

[buoyant axle]

[fresh spire]

[latent moss]

i hope

we can just

[dire hinge]

I’ve had longer sneezing fits than that queue

[latent moss]

take the legendary with a dinar

not upgrade but just take it

for alts

[dire hinge]

Exactly yeah

If I wanna try out paladin I don’t wanna go farm Fyrakk for weeks to get the base item like SL

[latent moss]

same

[gaunt owl]

calling the popo on your ass for this illegal idea

🚨 🚓 🚨

[untold trench]

[gaunt owl]

on my list of shit that need to die and be removed forever

Parry
Juggernaut

Tom

Martial Prowess

[latent moss]

overpower needs to get gutted

[gaunt owl]

i'm 99% sure they gonna rework it for the rotation

make it like MoP style OP

and not that fake filler thats omnipresent and omnipotent

[latent moss]

what was that

i want op to be a proc

u press that does a fuck ton of dmg

that just hits giga hard

[paper gulch]

I also feel that op should be a proc

[latent moss]

since it literally overpowers the enemy yknow

[paper gulch]

Like a combo

[gaunt owl]

it was hitting giga hard in MoP

[untold trench]

OP should only work when you get parried/dodged, and do an absurd amount of damage.

[latent moss]

hhhell naw

[timber lynx]

No thx

[untold trench]

hell ya

[fresh spire]

Imagine tactician returned to mortal strike.

[gaunt owl]

#fury is asking for you to go back

[fresh spire]

[paper gulch]

Bruh wants 2004 overpower back

[fresh spire]

And op is filler reset using slayer for bladestorms

[untold trench]

I belong here now

[timber lynx]

NERP OP BUFF UNHINGED SIMPLE AS

[untold trench]

Sword and Board arms

[gaunt owl]

you need to dumpster the 2DH first

[fresh spire]

Monk buff

[gaunt owl]

then we can talk

[untold trench]

Working on it, soon - soon

[fresh spire]

And getting owned

[paper gulch]

We need a hero spec called legs. Im tired of using my arms.

[latent moss]

[untold trench]

I also had DH buff

to be fair

[fresh spire]

All that 0 gain?

[timber lynx]

[untold trench]

Nah, that build does a ton of magic dam

[paper gulch]

195k overall in a 5 man? Whats your item level?

[timber lynx]

I do that overall at 460 ilvl

[fresh spire]

Man's playing a special version of arms where your actually a fairy confirmed

[paper gulch]

Fairy arms

[paper gulch]

Oh wow thats horrible

[steep osprey]

LMAO

[untold trench]

[paper gulch]

U must be trolling

[gaunt owl]

YO WTF IS THAT

[timber lynx]

Augury

13.5%

[gaunt owl]

Vakash ?

ALLO

[timber lynx]

Sword and board arms

[paper gulch]

https://tenor.com/view/300-leonidas-this-is-sparta-kick-gif-12850716

[steep osprey]

he shouldn't be allowed to cook

[gaunt owl]

👮🏻

[timber lynx]

Arrest this man

[untold trench]

come on, I am getting there

[steep osprey]

people actuyally invited you lmao

[untold trench]

Give me 2 more expansion, it will work!

[paper gulch]

Probably switched after they put the key in

[untold trench]

Nah, they didnt ask questions

[paper gulch]

Lol

[latent moss]

i played loboz fury

i underestimated it

[paper gulch]

What key level? +32 im guessing 😂

[fresh spire]

Pls stop cooking the foods burning

[untold trench]

I love that crisp taste of charcoal

[fresh spire]

I hope your not on about me

[untold trench]

Btw, I recommend everyone to try sword and board arms at least once in your life

Shieldslamming as arms, just feels so right

[timber lynx]

🛑

[gaunt owl]

so you cant even use MS

[untold trench]

Nop, no MS, but shieldslam tho

[latent moss]

ngl i thought

colossus would be

2h+shield for both arms and fury

makes sense as a weapon master

and makes sense for prot

prot should be 2h+shield baseline

[gaunt owl]

Colossus Smash was for both spec back in the day

[fringe moon]

I honestly thought Colossus hero talents would bring back sword+board...shame

[quaint otter]

Gladiator stance

[fringe moon]

missed opportunity by blizzard once again

[gaunt owl]

thats why you guys should never be allowed to cook

you would curse us

[untold trench]

If we are only talking thematics, sword and board, is very warrior. If we could get sword and spear, I would be quite happy with the look

[latent moss]

idk why is arms

[gaunt owl]

we wield a big 2H thats the warriorest way of warrior

[latent moss]

forced to run a single 2h

2h+shield makes the most sense for arms

weapon master

[fringe moon]

or if colossus was like Sven in dota I wouldn't mind that either

instead of stacking execute damage with juggernaut, it should just stack strength instead and call it god strength

[latent moss]

i want them to add a bunch of crit dmg

so we are forced into crit stacking

and then slow the rotation down

[timber lynx]

Slayer in my head had me thinking of poe slayer ascendancy where youre basically just an executioner + lots of leech

[latent moss]

so we are crit>mastery>>>haste=vers

[fringe moon]

slayer reminds me of Juggernaut in Dota whereas arms would be Sven

[timber lynx]

Yeah i can see that

[dusk spire]

Does the type of crafted weapon matter at all?

[fringe moon]

no

[dusk spire]

Ty

[gaunt owl]

just remove AM and TOM and we good on that front

[gaunt owl]

thats why they should have called it Juggernaut

[fringe moon]

yeah....Slayer makes no sense

[smoky kayak]

Juggernaut too similar to Colossus, Slayer is 100% inspired by the PoE ascendancy

which I don't hate, but is kinda funny

[fringe moon]

hopefully they change unhinged and other talents

[smoky kayak]

I'm sure there will be a good amount of changes

[latent moss]

ye

am is wrong on arms

[fringe moon]

still think unhinged should be MS every bladestorm hit instead of just 2 hits

[gaunt owl]

its because ToS tier set happend

[smoky kayak]

whatever number of strikes come out can be tuned, the real issue with unhinged ATM is just talent point economy

just purely comparing the talents themselves, Unhinged isn't actually that bad, but having to spend 2-3 extra points to get there is a lot

[gaunt owl]

MS doing no dmg on its own too

[smoky kayak]

something like unhinged could unironically have a lot of synergy with Colossus! Go go Arms channel spec

But yeah, I think problems with Unhinged are less about the direct damage added by the talent and more about the fact that even in a Bladestorm build, you still want those same other talents that ST builds take (Bloodletting, Sharpened Blades, Battlelord) more, while a non-BS build can't come close to affording the pathing

[teal fossil]

yeah 5 MS hits over bladestorm is surely balanced

[latent moss]

they shouldve done

demolish replaces bladestorm

imo

and inherits bs buffs

at 50% effectiveness

or something

[gaunt owl]

make Bladestorm baseline

[astral yarrow]

Or class tree

[smoky kayak]

I actually agree with this, had the same feeling

[astral yarrow]

Same thing

[smoky kayak]

if for no other reason than Demolish + Bladestorm could start to feel weird

[latent moss]

when i look at the hero talents

[teal fossil]

i think its too late now

[latent moss]

i think to myself

[teal fossil]

since slayer is the bladestorm talent

[latent moss]

ok so arms has bladestorm or no bladestorm and same for fury

y

[astral yarrow]

What a wonderful world

[teal fossil]

unless they revamp slayer to be something else

[latent moss]

[quaint otter]

u just cooked TOM

https://tenor.com/view/ltg-glasses-off-stare-ltg-stare-ltg-glasses-off-gif-15553471357126937625

[fringe moon]

brilliant I know!

[untold trench]

Wouldn't making demo replace BS, as a button, just make both builds Slayer/Demo lower CD of your BS and use it to do dam?

I get why - but then, both kinda become exactly the same. Even if they are already kinda similar

[fresh spire]

I would agree if bladestorm is super far up the spec tree for all classes to take it

Given fury/arms needs it for slayer and if demolish replaced it it would have to be near impossible to skip

[smoky kayak]

potentially, but if you can make them do different things, then you can establish a different feel

BS takes 6s, Demo takes 2s, different amount of ST vs MT priority, not to mention whatever various buffs they trigger

on the other hand, having Bladestorm and Demo together also feels awkward, so I think it's a bit of a catch-22 either way

[smoky kayak]

well yeah ofc the concept doesn't work if BS was still a deep optional talent

I wasn't really diving into specifics with the comment, just making a broad observation

[untold trench]

As long demo/BS doesnt become: To do ST you do Demo and BS for AoE, then I am alright with most things.

Having demo and BS chain eachother, likely BS into BS (if hurricane in any form sticks around), could feel alright for those players who want less GCD usage.

[fresh spire]

Would be baddass if bladestorm gave parry for prot or something

Spinning deflecting swords

Defence spin

[smoky kayak]

also for what it's worth, slayer hadn't been revealed at the point at which that observation was made, so we're doing a little bit of time travel here with the hindsight

[fresh spire]

Slayer looks good. Likely means we're gonna get some nice revamps from it

Cant wait to see if blizzard cooks right out the bat

Or we get 11.0 all over again

[smoky kayak]

at the time I had felt that Demo seemed overly similar to Bladestorm and it could have just been some kind of replacement

obviously at that time, we didn't know that Slayer was going to have anything to do with BS

[untold trench]

It was a fun cook, slayer looks to be fun, I personally hope for some more execute synergy to be cooked in - but that is not a popular opinion

[teal fossil]

there are two camps of warrior players

one that wants 99 stack jug

the other that doesnt want all damage be in execute

[gaunt owl]

fuck the execute niche

doing negative dmg outside of execute is bad

and we arent even the best spec in execute somehow

[teal fossil]

also have the implication of bursting adds and M+

where constant executes dont exist

[minor gust]

Ask in the warrior classic discord Fightclub

[latent moss]

is assa still ahead

no way

they got gutted

[timber lynx]

[gaunt owl]

UDK do more than we do in Execute all the time

[teal fossil]

nah

only once every 4 minutes

then they can take a smoke break

[gaunt owl]

what i mean is that they sim better all the time even if we compare with our Execute

[teal fossil]

true

unholy has actual god damage profile

wait how is unholy simming 300k

the fuck

[gaunt owl]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jf2dGJWV5jE2FCtRAijk7p my execute Sim dont come close

so every UDK i encountered must sux

if i beat them

[teal fossil]

dang

how shit is arms

[minor gust]

Arrms will be on top with Slayer

[wicked aurora]

this has gotta be a multi target sim yea?

[teal fossil]

nope

ST

look at everyone else

[wicked aurora]

ain't no way

somethin gotta be broke

[teal fossil]

dm biceps

[wicked aurora]

like I see some doin like 290k on a 3m fight and getting PI

but 315k nahhh

[teal fossil]

well its sim vs real life

but i play to the sim since im better

https://simulationcraft.org/reports/T31_Raid.html

[wicked aurora]

I feel less bad about getting beat by my devoker

now

wait wtf

why is survival doing so good

[teal fossil]

sometimes those shit tier classes sim well

but they have something going against it

[minor gust]

suvival is doing some super cringe macro pet attack managing right now I genuinly feel bad for them

[wicked aurora]

yeah it's a melee spec when you could just play BM and snooze your way to big dam

[dusk spire]

are there any fights in current raid that mandate a full aoe build? or is partial cleave plenty

[wicked aurora]

none

[minor gust]

you can be full ST for every boss

[wicked aurora]

arms has some small talent changes for some bosses

but for the most part it's standard jugg build

[dusk spire]

and is fueled better than IP?

was under the impression that more buttons to reduce damage = good

[minor gust]

personal preference in raid take what u want both good for what they do

[wicked aurora]

depends

if you play around IP it's really good

if you don't it's not

i.e. stacking before damage events

[dusk spire]

play around as in press the button

right?

[wicked aurora]

yesn't

[dusk spire]

like, if i'm using it preemptively before raid damage it's gonna be better than passive healing right

[wicked aurora]

there's pressing the button and there's pressing the button

[halcyon breach]

If you expect to die to big damage bursts, then IP will usually be better, but some fights like Nymue with a lot of rot damage, FbV does a lot as well

And could arguably make it comfier

[wicked aurora]

and it doesn't cost you rage

🙂

[halcyon breach]

That as well

[dusk spire]

also how important is using slam to dump rage?

[halcyon breach]

I used FbV for the bit I progged Fyrakk Mythic, and it honestly was just fine

[wicked aurora]

enough to have it bound

[dusk spire]

kinda wanna move the crushing force points elsewhere but it feels like trolling somehow

[halcyon breach]

It is trolling

At least in raid

[dusk spire]

ok

nice

[tight thistle]

just tclap tot dump rage

[dusk spire]

and what about rend>thunder clap with B+T

[halcyon breach]

In M+ not as much, since there are worthwhile talents to move those 2 CF points to

[halcyon breach]

You generally don't care about pressing Rend itself, apart from a tiny tiny min/max on pull where you press Rend instead of Thunder Clap

[teal fossil]

missing 2 manual rends every fight wont kill you

[wicked aurora]

That's not including the value it provides from tactician and AM

[halcyon breach]

But you could also completely ignore this, and continue to use TC as your way to apply Rend if you can't be bothered and you generally wont notice it ever

And it'll save a keybind

[wicked aurora]

14 casts for an extra 4.5k dps is pretty good

[teal fossil]

i can't even find a rend cast in the current sim

[wicked aurora]

just get in the habit of MS>WW>OP>Slam

or something

won't have to press it often but you will have periods where if it's not bound you're not pressing anything

[halcyon breach]

WW is below OP

[wicked aurora]

not according to wowhead

[dusk spire]

rip skullsplitter build S2

[gaunt owl]

pretty much use WW during CS

[dusk spire]

look how they massacred my boy

for m+

[tight thistle]

its still fine

[wicked aurora]

fwiw SkS isn't that bad

[dusk spire]

it just aint the same tho 😔

[gaunt owl]

SkS lost everything that was SkS before

[dusk spire]

funny big crit button is gone

[smoky kayak]

WH condenses for readability, instead of having five separate WW and OP lines that don't amount to any practical difference

[wicked aurora]

Well out of curiosity what is the “optimal” priority?

[dire hinge]

There’s some conditionals about how much rage you have and if you’re in CS or not basically. It’s all in the APL itself (I’m not at my machine or I’d get a screenshot and link)

It won’t make a large difference for most players

[acoustic arch]

(begginer arms dude here) do i still run bladestorm in tyrannical or do i go juggernaut or some other thing

[teal fossil]

read the APL

[olive nest]

I like to run the bladestorm+warlords build

[past dock]

hey guys, just getting back into the game and going over to arms from prot, been mostly focused on gearing for arms so wanted to prioritize crafting. Any suggestions on what to make next? was thinking of wristguards of companionship or upping the my belt with shadowflame or going with an hour glass ring. https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5fWwm3Ags2U1bA5XoY9N6E

[acoustic arch]

not sure what an apl is, but the faq doesnt mention what i asked

[untold trench]

Hi, you can run what you want. What is the most fun, especially as you just started.

If you want datapoints, I recommend raider.io or warcraftlogs, see what people are doing around your bracket and skill level of play

I run Sword and Board arms, doing 20s, and it is totally fine. So don't worry about chosing between two meta builds

[acoustic arch]

to be fair im only doing 20s rn

so i gues it doesnt matter much

thanks for the asnwwer ❤️

[slow saddle]

Wtb buffed sks!!! Let it be bis a season please

[teal fossil]

wish it was bis on st

the APL optimization for it was kinda strange though

[gaunt owl]

it was bis in s2

[dusk spire]

bis aoe s2

[gaunt owl]

Sarri just uncovered late it was bis for ST too

[teal fossil]

should double the speed and double the damage

may as well

[gaunt owl]

if only we didnt need 2 points to make it good

[slow saddle]

it was bis in ST

but way harder to play as well

but still bis

in my dreams sks is buffed and TOM is gutted

[gaunt owl]

yeah i cant event remember how good we had to play to make sure it wasnt a dps loss in ST

[slow saddle]

to good for me at least

[gaunt owl]

i wasnt min maxing properly too

i played worst with it but it was fun button to push

[teal fossil]

the problem was that APL wasnt optimized either

so i was not powerful with hekili

until it was too late

[gaunt owl]

the Sarri APL was top secret

[teal fossil]

real

importing to hekili

[dire hinge]

I'm back at my PC for a little bit, wanted to follow up on this question. There are a few conditions where WW is higher priority than OP regardless of how many charges it has. Namely if CS is applied and you have SoS talented, or in this other instance where there is enough time to get a second WW inside your CS window.
https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/blob/dragonflight/profiles/Tier31/T31_Warrior_Arms.simc

[wicked aurora]

[jolly slate]

this was very insightful ty for posting

[dire hinge]

of course, dont overthink it too much, especially the second conditional since they're literally right next to the OP priority, but the first one (SoS+CS) is easy enough to prioritize and helps a bit with ToM/AM.

[latent moss]

the fuck

how is unholy simming for 315

has to be a bug

[gaunt owl]

i have no idea

i'm gonna go steal some of their idea

i watched some of the rogue assa apl

man they do it so weirdly

its overcooked as fuck i cant even

[astral yarrow]

They split up their CDs into individual lists, but I kinda like it better

[gaunt owl]

ok UDK APL do cursed stuff with their CD Def for runic generation

[gaunt owl]

we dont have any impactful CD

[smoky kayak]

Thought about doing that for Arms at one time, but it hadn't felt necessary (keep in mind, more lists also = longer run time); it's not a bad idea for whatever happens with TWW though

separate lists are mostly for the benefit of maintainers more so than the users though - it's to make tweaking individual elements without affecting other portions (reason AoE and Arms Execute are separate atm)

[gaunt owl]

ok just saw the WW APL

dont look

[astral yarrow]

Yeah Des and I talked about doing that specifically for dungeon slice implementation

[gaunt owl]

they took the cursed route of if you have 2p 4p or not or this or that

[smoky kayak]

I know, I had recommended separating DS out initially, but then decided just to keep it together

[astral yarrow]

Is runtime that impacted though? In the grand scheme of things

[smoky kayak]

Yep, some of the APLs are extensive and the flip side to "easier to tweak individaul parts" is you end up with a shit ton of extraneous things to keep track of

and worse, one spell tuning/change ends up affecting like 9 different lists; it's really easy to forget about things

[smoky kayak]

I mean yes and no, on an individual level probably not, but when people are running a dozen really large sims (as some people are wont to do)... it adds up

[gaunt owl]

separating the CD would make sense to help maintain

and some condition carry over to AOE / Execute or ST anyway

[astral yarrow]

Yeah but I guess the point is “when does it end”. Separate CS window into a list, separate ToM window into a list and so on

[smoky kayak]

if you keep the lists together, yeah; otherwise you might end up needing CD AoE, CD ST, etc

[smoky kayak]

exactly - some of the other classes are a good example of that!

[wicked aurora]

Sub comes to mind lol

[gaunt owl]

i would just have all the condition for when to CS / Avatar and stuff into one call list

maybe trinket in there and special racial if you can

just not sure why some spec did this way

[smoky kayak]

Not really worth changing anything right now, but it's worth considering for TWW, depending on what they end up doing to the spec, and who wants to help maintaining it

Like I said, it's mostly for the maintainer more so than the user, so it does kind of depend on who is committing to the bulk of the work in keeping track of it all

[gaunt owl]

so not sure how its best to do it too

[wicked aurora]

I got 95s doing MS>OP>WW>Slam so I suppose it ultimately doesn't matter that much as long as you press MS on CD and plenty of Execute in Execute phase lol

[dire hinge]

exactly yeah. It might be the difference of a few thousand dps tops

[simple olive]

I'm really struggling with handling keys that are like 23+, it feels like warrior just isn't great in the highest keys. Anyone have any tips for pushing past the 3k IO range? I feel hardstuck with pugs but I acknowledge it's probably a skill issue

[wicked aurora]

idk man

I kinda own in keys

Like what are you struggling with specifically?

Damage output? Survival?

Cuz if it's dam Arms owns https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/148898720803586048/1214415977580855346/image.png?ex=66024283&is=65efcd83&hm=dabbd115fcb229d282955e9659c4ba386f3f234265ee38cb5e534ca9c9dc6dbd&

[jolly slate]

if u started later into the season its def a lot harder to climb out of 20s range

by puggingh

[wicked aurora]

There's a lot that can happen to brick keys, I just wanna know what specifically is the warrior aspect that he's struggling with

outside elements like pugs just being stupid can't be helped

[quaint otter]

what key is this

[wicked aurora]

a scuffed BRH

[latent moss]

fel bat pad

[quaint otter]

weirdge

i have like 350-400k as ww

[latent moss]

ww

[wicked aurora]

like I said scuffed

[quaint otter]

ww is actually

valdrakken fountain main

[quaint otter]

each time i see ret

they always pull like 100kk in bats

Ty Me FoR CaRrY

[sage badge]

Really depends on how far you're willing to make the APL in every minute detail. Warriors in general is pretty simple, and there isn't that many nuances you can do. Like Archi said, organizing it is mostly for the person writing it.
I never saw the need to make a separate CS/avatar list, since I can add two or three lines including the debuff/buff condition for checking. Otherwise those specific lists would be small in general just better organized.

[simple olive]

Yeah it's prob damage tbh

[wicked aurora]

well we're not lacking in damage tbh

what build are you running?

[simple olive]

I haven't run any keys yet this week tbh, this is what it's still set to atm

[wicked aurora]

looks fine at a glance, might want to try double BS or jugg though in low 20s

[simple olive]

Makes sense makes sense

I got to 3k IO and then sorta took a break so I'm a little behind

[wicked aurora]

I haven't really pushed past 3100, but damage is almost never the problem for me pushing

[tender geyser]

create a +18 or +20 = instafind people

create a +19 = desert

[simple olive]

The issue isn't getting into groups Yo, just feels like the class is behind other classes in utility and usefulness

[astral yarrow]

19 is harder than an 18 and gives nothing

[wicked aurora]

I want to push but people in 25s underperform or are actually braindead

[quaint otter]

reg 18 start 19 wesmart

[quaint otter]

true and real

[wicked aurora]

like I swear so many people in 25s do less damage than people in 18s

it's wild

[tender geyser]

yeah thats what i gotta do

[astral yarrow]

mythic raid isnt puggable like keys is, so people with enough time will eventually get carried

especially bad the later the season goes

[wicked aurora]

I wouldn't mind doing keys but this late into the season just not worth my effort and I'm totally okay with that, gives me time to play other games

[quasi torrent]

hit the lottery enough and you will win

[astral yarrow]

https://imgur.com/2pkvABb

[quasi torrent]

king UI

[tender geyser]

what am i supposed to do

i dont understand

[halcyon breach]

Not walk into the spiders?

Fairly simple

[tender geyser]

but they are so many

impossible to escape

[halcyon breach]

Then walk around them

If you're constantly in a place where you can't avoid them, it's either a group effort failing the spawns, or the tank is tanking it wrong

Although typically it's only really an issue in higher keys where the space gets limited

[tender geyser]

yeah w.e this game is trash

spiders everywhere

u cant dodge all those

[halcyon breach]

Projecting

[tender geyser]

yeah idk i just alt f4ed

fuck this stupid ass dungeon

[nova marsh]

Honestly you can as long as you have a hang of then

And ur tank isn't stupid

[teal fossil]

thats the challenge of the boss

hate it when my game has a challenge

[nova marsh]

Treat it as a minefield

[tender geyser]

good thing i bought a punch bag

so i can take out my anger on it

[latent moss]

go pvp

pve is shit anyway

[tender geyser]

i am trying to breathe to calm down now

it's lucky yazma is just an ingame boss

cuz if i met her irl

i would beat the shit out of her

for all the times she wiped me

[nova marsh]

Ah yes this again

[halcyon breach]

Bro's getting way more heated than I've ever been at a video game

[nova marsh]

You haven't seen people over ds1

Unparalleled gamer rage

[outer holly]

I had a tank last night sit yazma in the middle and tanked her in a 8 yard circle

I'd complain but it was worth it to see the DH momentum straight into a pack of 3 doots

[tender geyser]

they need to make a keyboard out of cotton

so when i get mad i can slam it as much as i want

without blowing it to bits

[latent moss]

that keyboard isnt required when playing pvp

cause pvp is better

u dont get mad in pvp cause if u lose u know its your fault

so you can improve and get better

[wary raft]

nah u still get mad in pvp bc the only time u can walk at normal speed is bladestorm

[tender geyser]

yeah cuz they are pussies they run away from u cuz they know they can't beat u in a real fight like real men

[nova marsh]

I love how people say this without providing a reason besides "its not scripted!"

[tender geyser]

when i sleep 16 hrs i am calm and collected

but when i sleep only 12 i get mad all the time

it doesn't seem like a coincidence to me

[quasi torrent]

heating up (fire mage ability)

[tender geyser]

these giant spiders think they're real tough

hiding inside a video game

oh wait

now the keystone got demoted to +19 but it's still atal dazar

so i gotta go again

maybe i should watch a video on the mechanics

i still ahve no idea what the mobs or the bosses do mostly

cuz this is how easy pve is

u can reach +20 keys without ever knowing what they do

just do dps and dont die

i know u gotta enter the pool of blood on one of the bosses and kill the totems first and like that's it

oh yeah and hide from the big dinosaur

[smoky kayak]

https://tenor.com/view/using-computer-eric-cartman-south-park-s4e6-cartman-joins-nambla-gif-21962054

[nova marsh]

Okay, let's see u apply this to mythic raid

[tender geyser]

yeah i dont like raiding

it's like the worst game mode by far

dungeons is fun cuz u can just turn ur brain off and relax from the hard work u did in pvp

[nova marsh]

Why even do it then?

[minor gust]

[latent moss]

to relax from pvp

he has a point

[nova marsh]

I mean yeah, keys are relaxing

But like....then I look at the above posts

And wonder "is that actually relaxing to him?"

[latent moss]

yes

he gets consumed by rage

from pvp

[icy mango]

https://i.imgur.com/MBQQo6B.png

[minor gust]

nice clarifications

[smoky kayak]

yup, exactly what we thought, but will hopefully placate some of the crazy forum posters (j/k they can't be bothered to read)

[nova marsh]

I'm convinced half the people on the forums don't even play the game anymore

Just like to rage

[teal fossil]

shouldve taken the 2nd point in overwhelming rage

[nova marsh]

Bro would need a whole talent tree of overwhelming rage not to be consumed by rage.

Sorry I had to

[smoky kayak]

you could probably add all of Twitter, 60% of Wowhead, and a good portion of this discord to that number 😆

[nova marsh]

Sorry, I should've just said like half of the entire wow 'community'

Bet most of them quit during shadowlands or bfa

[tender geyser]

im consumed by furry

[latent moss]

[proud plover]

"Likewise, all Bladestorm damage events will trigger Overwhelming Blades, including Frenetic Flurry and the additional ticks from Imminent Demise." - now please allow unhinged!

[tender geyser]

it turns out this dungeon is ez as fuck

u just need to not get hit by the spiders

so ez

blizz needs to make dungeons harder

i need a real challenge

[proud plover]

take off your weapon

and run it completeely smashed drunk in game

[minor gust]

This guy needs a nap or a wellness check

[nova marsh]

do a +30

[tender geyser]

i slept 11 hours then i napped for 5

but i need more sleep

i need more power

so they're nerfing numbers

+10 will be roughly equivalent to a +20 now

[outer holly]

I'm still waiting for someone who hasn't lost their minds to post the key level -> drop tier spreadsheet

[proud plover]

yeah and you run an 8+ for max vault rewards

[mortal vigil]

why did i just see an arms warrior with 1h + shield

shield slamming

[outer holly]

That blizz post looks schizo

[tender geyser]

ok so they say +10 is the max level reward

but +10 has no timer

[wicked aurora]

Slayer catching more W’s

[tender geyser]

it's already on the website

[warped spade]

living his best life

[minor gust]

you don't pay his sub

hes living his dream

[tender geyser]

Maximus used a shield

Leonidas used a shield

what great warrior didn't use a shield

[nova marsh]

Fantasy and real life are different lol

What's a shield gonna do against a giant fuck off fireball

[proud plover]

remember in slands that guy that played 1h+shield arms and was logging runs to say it performed better

[warped spade]

no, +10 now -> new (s4) no timer m0. +20 now -> new (s4) with timer +10

[tender geyser]

"One of the most notable changes players can look forward to is the removal of the timer for Mythic Keystone dungeons for what are currently 0 and 10."

so +0 will have no timer

but +1 will have timer?

[warped spade]

"currently"

[outer holly]

Wasn't there someone running the secret Shield Slam tech in this disc?

[dusk spire]

Is dungeon slice sim worth using for arms? Or troll

[outer holly]

Hrothmar?

[mortal vigil]

yes +1 will have timer, but new +1 will be difficulty and loot of what +11 is now

[tender geyser]

i see

this makes sense

having 30 levels is unnecessary

when u can have 20 instead

[proud plover]

there is no +1

[nova marsh]

They're still endlessly scaling

[dusk spire]

There will be with the changes, if I'm reading that correctly

[fresh spire]

my assumption to this is the bladestorm lasts one tick

[mortal vigil]

yes

[fresh spire]

now imagine it consumes the 3 extra ticks

so you hit 4 times with bladestorm in an instant

shit sounds fucking awesom

[tender geyser]

so because the new season is starting a few weeks after tomorrow's 10.2.6, it basically means all my effort done now is wasted since in a few weeks all the gear will be outdated and easily replaced by stronger one

[fresh spire]

pvp nightmare incoming

[proud plover]

it should act like the torghast power that cast a free ww, in the same global

[dusk spire]

Hmmm sounds too fun, be quiet blizzard might hear

[fresh spire]

[ebon hollow]

does fury gain more dmg from Windfury than arms?

[fresh spire]

it does

like 8.5k vs 5k

[ebon hollow]

since when

[dusk spire]

More attacka

[fresh spire]

since s3

[ebon hollow]

i always thought arms > fury

oh

[dusk spire]

More wind fury

[fresh spire]

arms is rage capped to death rn

[ebon hollow]

bc of the annihilator build i guess?

[fresh spire]

and fury scales from autos hard as fuck from S3 talents

[fresh spire]

yep[

[warped spade]

this used to be the case but.. rip rage

[ebon hollow]

ah i see

yea like i got benched from WF totem

for a fury and prot warr

[fresh spire]

it will likely dip again next patch when anhi is (hopefully) dropped once more

[ebon hollow]

bc prot warr gains more aswell??

like wtf

[dusk spire]

I prefer playing arms tho so I don't get Parkinson's at 25

[fresh spire]

prot do be good too

[ebon hollow]

same

i rather play arms without WF than fury with

[fresh spire]

though benching arms over prot for totem light wtf

[ebon hollow]

lol

[fresh spire]

fury without feels horrible

[proud plover]

prot gains alot and helps their rage gen to spam ip for am reductions boosting their survivability aswell

[ebon hollow]

i mean prot just gains more dmg it seems

[warped spade]

if your tank is performing cares about dps, overall gain is better

[fresh spire]

if your prots playing for DPS sure

[warped spade]

read "cares about dps"

[fresh spire]

legit find a new guild

kekw

[ebon hollow]

idk, hes our 3rd tank, maintank wasnt here so he went tank

[latent moss]

colossus should let arms use 2h+shield

same for prot

fantasy

imagine

[warped spade]

ooh

I like

[latent moss]

weapon master cant use 2h and a shield

lmao

[broken sun]

is this normal for the sim?
like just spam execute _D

[proud plover]

i wanted this

[latent moss]

what kinda weapon master is that

colossus stance

[proud plover]

yees

[latent moss]

replaces battle stance

allows 2h+shield

they shouldve done that

[broken sun]

huh
im really bad at reading the sim action priority then

[latent moss]

yes

[broken sun]

why does it stop tho

[latent moss]

no more rage

[proud plover]

link the execute prio someone

[proud plover]

ty

[latent moss]

basically execute while ure above 40 rage when u drop below 40 press op

at 2 stacks of both

mortal strike

during cs + tom windows u send ms at 2 exe and 1 op stack

[broken sun]

where is that snippet from?

[latent moss]

it was posted here back when it was found

like 2 months ago or something

i dont remember

maybe not 2 months

idk

[broken sun]

ah thought i missed a pin or smth

ty ❤️

(time to edit the wa)

[proud plover]

what wa, is there secret wa tech?

[broken sun]

nah luxthos
but ill just put in some conditions
did this on outlaw worked wonders

[wicked aurora]

Love this

[latent moss]

[minor gust]

it rly should be pinned but alas its not

[proud plover]

ive used luxthos for years, never thought about editing conditions

i just run hekili as a guide to track buffs, heelped me play fury with ww cleave and it uses current apl for execute buffs

[broken sun]

like for conditions like this
its really helpful

[tender geyser]

i wish blizz would do a fun game mode event

like LoL has URF

just remove gcd from all abilities

80% reduced cooldowns

[proud plover]

so we just make a super macro and spam it?

[tender geyser]

disable macros

real skilled players don't need macros

[proud plover]

who neeeds skill when you can be efficient

[tender geyser]

i got a lil bored by pvp

so i started doing dungeons

but now i got bored by that too

[smoky kayak]

Fan of Longswords! Best anima power, I keep hoping they'll find a way to carry it forward

[latent moss]

how

[proud plover]

thats the one! also my fave

[tender geyser]

i think it's because i only slept 11 hours and then napped only 5

[latent moss]

i sleep for 26 minutes weekly

grinding

weeklies

[proud plover]

why you grinding weeklies so late in the seson

[latent moss]

im not

i dont have upgrades

from m+

[proud plover]

only upgrades for me come from vault or mythic bosses ill never kill, season was dead the moment i made my leggo lol

[tender geyser]

this pirate patch tomorrow better be good

[proud plover]

wtf is that

[untold trench]

Looks like league

[tender geyser]

yeah

i'm letting the game know it has competition now

[dire hinge]

Gross

[tender geyser]

they made it so that u can now give bots in practice tool any items u want, so u can practice 1v1s at 6 items from the start of teh game

meanwhile wow still has no sandbox mode

after 20 years

[dire hinge]

Bit of an apples to oranges comparison, but if you have feedback I’d suggest taking it to the wow forums where it has a chance of being listened to

[tender geyser]

blizz dont listen to feedback

basic things like being able to practice fighting bosses in dungeon or raids

without actually going into a dungeon or raid, dont exist

or being able to practice routes in m+

[proud plover]

they exist where they need to eg tournament realm

[dire hinge]

If you want to practice just go into the dungeon

It’s free

[nova marsh]

Basic things?....what game does this?

Like literally no MMO in the entire genre does

[proud plover]

minecraft

[nova marsh]

bro's fucking trippin if Minecraft is an mmo

[proud plover]

thats about the only game i can think of with a truee sandbox

[dire hinge]

I remember the RPG mod for Minecraft, it can be one

Played a Druid lol

[nova marsh]

Oh yeah wyrnncraft

But like....again no MMO does this. Because as you said hroth

Just go into the dungeon it's p free to do so. Or start at low keys. Or apply to low keys.

[dire hinge]

Everything you learn in low keys becomes relevant again in 24s when that ability you haven’t been paying attention to starts one shotting the entire party

[smoky kayak]

raids do let you practice the boss without killing - it's called progression

[nova marsh]

Imagine if blizz just let us fight mythic bosses in a simulation lol

Could you imagine how lame the RWF would be

[untold trench]

I can imagine how lame raiding would be

[wind flicker]

Basically fated, we already progged these bosses

[nova marsh]

Yeah

[dire hinge]

The horrors that would persist if you could accurately practice a boss in a sandbox 😳

Got folks who already practiced the fight to perfection waiting on folks who can’t dedicate the free time to practice outside of raid times. Massive recipe for toxicity 💀

[inner wasp]

so like

[proud plover]

hahahahaa people learn to use defensives and interupt things real fast or they stop doing keys because "too hard"

[nova marsh]

It'd also just destroy prog

[inner wasp]

say i want to play fury, arms, and prot
and i want to have multiple loadouts for each

do i just have to go fuck myself

[nova marsh]

because there's no learning it, you have to raid outside of raid basically

[nova marsh]

In terms of base UI? Yes

[proud plover]

no. You can usee arms gear to tank with and you will need another fury set with stacked mastery

[nova marsh]

WIth addons you can easily get around the stupid talent limit

[wind flicker]

I dont know if anything actually one shots on that keylevel tbh (like interruptable stuff)

[nova marsh]

(I probally read that wrong)

[inner wasp]

i dont mean gear i mean talent loadouts

[nova marsh]

Yeah go get the addons that let you bypass it

[inner wasp]

which?

[proud plover]

https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/talent-loadout-ex

[inner wasp]

bird up

ty

[dire hinge]

It’s v nice

[nova marsh]

irrc they even show up in sims

As additional set ups

[proud plover]

wait a miunute!

i was loking for something that swapped gear also

https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/btwloadouts

does tht still work?

[dire hinge]

True, it might polish off folks if they’re not topped up, or lower geared. Specific key level isn’t important, more just how mechanics that are easy start to become more punishing once you reach an appropriate difficulty

[nova marsh]

Idk why people want to "practice" pve

When you could just play PvE and get experience

REmeber, the worst things that can happen are wipes and key bricks. Not the end of the world

[wind flicker]

Practicing means instant access to any boss / mechanic you'd want

Signing up to a key for practicing let's say the last boss takes you 30 minutes AT LEAST to get to

[inner wasp]

this is world of warcraft dungeons what are u practicing

[nova marsh]

I mean that's fair.

[wind flicker]

Taking away the signup time, waiting for everyone to cook dinner etc

[inner wasp]

dont stand in fire and press ur buttons

GG u just timed a 24

[wind flicker]

Its not quite that simple but ye

[nova marsh]

Tbh Routes and not fucking up affixes are more important then most dungeon mechs

[inner wasp]

depends on the boss

last boss of tides? just dont stand in fire goop and press ur buttons

GG

[nova marsh]

Sign up time for any non meta is fucking god awfu l

[wind flicker]

@inner wasp I understand your logic, but in reality a key (especially a "pushkey") for some might be harder than for others

If you want to be a good mythic + player there is a lot of stuff you need to pay attention to, and be aware of incoming damage / stops and useage of cds and defensives

[nova marsh]

This is true

[nova marsh]

That's a part of wow's learning curve.

[inner wasp]

yea im bad tbf

[wind flicker]

Just because it is easy for 1 player doesnt mean it's easy for another

[inner wasp]

i dont go above 20s often

i think i prob could but if i got my portal then its gg

[nova marsh]

Tbh I just play for the seasonal rewards

After that I don't care anymore....mostly because I'd like to the serve burnout I got from BFA, Legion, and parts of slands

[proud plover]

sometims you want that higher key so things live longer and you get to feel your full rotation pump

[wind flicker]

I personally really enjoy trying to push my limits on m+

[smoky kayak]

just play with worse people, ez

[nova marsh]

I mean

I think there's an argument for using follower dungeons for this

Will that ever happen? Probally not lol

[proud plover]

follower m+? thats interesting

[smoky kayak]

probably not, no - just seems like trying to avoid the multiplayer aspect in a multiplayer game

[nova marsh]

Not nessiarily M+

More like base Mythic

[smoky kayak]

nothing wrong with follower dungeons, but they should be kept to entry level

[nova marsh]

So you can learn the dungeons

[smoky kayak]

and if you wanna "practice" with a group... just go do it as a group lol

[nova marsh]

And then add on affixes as you go

[wind flicker]

If you really want to learn to get better, try to accept the fact that you might not be as good as you think so you can properly analyse your own mistakes to become better. Besides that you can also look at higher level players on youtube / twitch and see how they do it

[proud plover]

follower raiding

[smoky kayak]

the best way to learn is through experience, not trying to setup a safe space where you can control every variable

[nova marsh]

Blizzard's stated purpose for follower dungeons is a safe space to practice without fear of ridicial or wipes

[smoky kayak]

you learn better when shit goes sideways

[inner wasp]

nah im goated. im as good as i think

[wind flicker]

Well good for you ^^

[inner wasp]

its my party's fault

never mine

[nova marsh]

Like meele having to do Gorak tol adds

....that was terrible

[hazy flower]

@latent moss

I got invited to a key

networking works

2 rio gained

[proud plover]

grats

[wind flicker]

I agree to some degree, i do think that it definitely improves your ability to adapt to worse situations and is good for decision making. However for the general learning of the fight not perse, since on higher key levels that will most likely just result in the key being bricked

[nova marsh]

Like I said, follower M zero wouldn't really hurt anyone

[proud plover]

keys being bricked is the majority of high level keys

[wind flicker]

You dont really learn anything in m0 in my opinion

[nova marsh]

It's not as if M zero gear is actually useful outside of the first 2 weeks of the xpack half the time

Depends

On how fast the boss melts

[proud plover]

it will be next tier

[hazy flower]

its useful for new players

[proud plover]

its hero track from vault

[nova marsh]

Not even

[hazy flower]

yes even

I started in df s1

and it gave me huge ilv boost

[nova marsh]

Why do M0s when I could do 2s