when witches had weekly rotation
#arms
tulip girder
slayer isn't very promising looking for arms is it?
proud plover
at a glance it feels like a pvp thing for arms and a pve thing for fury
astral yarrow
hopefully we'll see changes to the class, cause slayer stuff put onto current iteration is the most meh of mehs
minor gust
Need to see the class/spec tree changes to really get an opinion on slayer/col
pulsar summit
yea, rework might help it mesh better
astral yarrow
and the mention of more op resets make me believe changes to current is being done
proud plover
free bladestorms in executee phase doesnt sound great dos it
i do like the able to interupt while bladestorming
minor gust
the Bladestorm proc is just 1 attack
proud plover
i also like the move speed bonus afteer charge
tulip girder
yeah but in the current iteration our execute phase dont use OP much and we would be rage capped a lot out of execute. I would like the hero talents when on all overpower notes would be MS instead.
minor gust
I mean our current execute rotation is purely becauseo of tuning
proud plover
oooo i see its 1 bladestorm hit, a free ww
minor gust
if things are tuned right and we go back to normal EP rotation you will press OP
pulsar summit
there's no info on how high overwelmed stacks either
proud plover
do they have a time or just a permant incrase
teal fossil
yeah but in the current iteration our execute phase dont use OP much and we woul...
Right now we press more op than ms
proud plover
pulsar summit
so curious if a random BS from OP casts will extend
teal fossil
In execute
tulip girder
they will put a cap on it, otherwise we would ramp to hard or they fall of after 10 sec
teal fossil
Right now the prio is MS with 2 ep 2 op
minor gust
Extending would be huge
proud plover
i mean does a refresh extend time
tulip girder
otherwise we have this situation again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hMqvb8QiUk
pulsar summit
i mean does a refresh extend time
some abilities, yes
usually its noted in the tooltip if it doesnt
teal fossil
If it doesn’t refresh it says so
Yeah
“Multiple stacks may overlap” is the term
See ironfur
minor gust
honestly the potential of that could be cringe
you insane luck on SD procs and BS procs you have a giga insane overwhelm stack
get unlucky and its constantly falling off
pulsar summit
ToM needs to go if they're doubling down on SD again
minor gust
hopefully its the first thing gone with the talent changes
tulip girder
I hope we get a bit of a rework. Legion arms was the most fun for arms in my opinion.
minor gust
tactician being changed back to legion tactician believe me
this is my next conspiracy
pulsar summit
we get 6 strikes in a normal BS?
teal fossil
That sounds right to me
pulsar summit
so 9 total with Imminent Demise
tulip girder
let me check real quick
tulip girder
44!ferkel!86
teal fossil
Regular bs channels less time with haste
latent moss
hopefully we'll see changes to the class, cause slayer stuff put onto current it...
fury changes are confirmed
teal fossil
With same strikes
latent moss
both talent trees having 0 interactions with tom
is a good sign
of them removing it
astral yarrow
i enjoy ToM 😦
latent moss
well the spec is shit because of it
neon ocean
ToM has too many conflicts of interest, I.E. abilities that don't spend any rage
wary raft
I mean tom was fun when we were actually spending rage
pulsar summit
id enjoy it if there was synergy
wary raft
yeah exactly
tulip girder
bladestorm does 7 hits
wary raft
give a talent that incentivizes spending rage then over incentivize spamming an ability that doesnt spend rage makes the worse of the two feel like shit
pulsar summit
so 10 with that hero talent
i assume they'll keep hurricane
so your casting your 2nd bs before the stacks fall
would be wild if they extend
minor gust
so 10 with that hero talent
13 because the bottem talent
consuming marks also give overwhelm
tulip girder
avatar BS does 7 hits also
wary raft
I think if hurricane stays in the game slayer will feel like ass to play bc hurricane will force bs to continue to do 0 damage
neon ocean
Yeah honestly remove hurricane
latent moss
my guess is that they are gonna remove it
and make mbg/unhinged
choice
unhinged for st mbg for aoe
tulip girder
they have to remove unhinged anyway, it would wreck people in PVP otherwise
latent moss
pvp/pve modifiers exist
rare kite
they have to remove unhinged anyway, it would wreck people in PVP otherwise
they dont have to, just make the ms from unhinged hit lower in pvp
it's so simple
pulsar summit
nah, unhinged makes slayer a more interesting choice for raid
tulip girder
can they do that? I mean isn't MS a MS. Wouldn't that nerf MS entirely or they have to code a second MS just for unhinged.
neon ocean
I just hope the talent rework is like
latent moss
its not that hard
neon ocean
Rogue quality
tulip girder
yeah but these are usually % fixes, not mechanic or I am wrong theire?
wary raft
can they do that? I mean isn't MS a MS. Wouldn't that nerf MS entirely or they h...
they have modifiers specifically for pvp, go look at the latest class tuning
% fixes are fine
if unhinged hits with 3 ms then you nerf the damage each of those ms's so by 33% you effectively only hit for 2
latent moss
i mean
u can change the talent itself
for pvp/pve
make it cast 2 instead of 3
done
if u are pvp flagged
neon ocean
Pvpers are just going to play demolish anyway
latent moss
make it do less and thats it
neon ocean
neon ocean
It does depend yeah
latent moss
shockwave is a lot stronger
neon ocean
People call Colossus boring but idk the premise of what Demolish could offer for arms damage profile sounds amazing to me
And hopefully they sell the visuals I guess
dire hinge
at least it sounds like something other than "brown fyr'alath"
minor gust
The thing with Colossus is most of the nodes are just boring 0 thought %dmg nodes
tulip girder
my only issue with colossus is our low range + channel. We probally will loose a lot of DMG because a mob moved a mm during our channel
minor gust
so its riding on the fact that Demolish could be fun
wary raft
People call Colossus boring but idk the premise of what Demolish could offer for...
colossus hinges on whether or not demolish feels good to press and is cool. I think slayer kinda has the same 50/50 coinflip with bladestorm
neon ocean
Yeah when I imagine the current design of bladestorm and especially it's damage I'm not enthused so I'm hoping they are cooking up a better bladestorm
One that isn't insanely weak on single target
tulip girder
for me slayer would sound awesome when all the overpower notes would be replaced with MS
in the current form with our current talents, it sounds really bad
minor gust
thats why we need to wait and see
neon ocean
I'm reserving judgement on all the warrior hero stuff for the changes
minor gust
need talent changes before we can be really critical on some of the hero talents
neon ocean
Mountain thane seems like it would be sick though
latent moss
for me slayer would sound awesome when all the overpower notes would be replaced...
ms has enough steroids already
doesnt need more
minor gust
it actually does tho
neon ocean
I'd like to press tclap and have it be meaningful
latent moss
it actually does tho
it does no damage baseline
thats the issue
im glad it isnt just 342 ms aura buffs
in the tree
we also have no clue how will arms play in tww
tulip girder
still hard to give feedback, if we dont have the full picture.
latent moss
exactly
minor gust
make MS worth pressing
latent moss
i dont want ms to hit for 50k
unbuffed
slayer has interactions with ms through ep
which is good
doesnt need more
latent moss
slayer has interactions with ms through ep
and martial prowess
smoky kayak
slayer has interactions with ms through ep
also Colossus is kind of "focus MS" themed already
latent moss
also those 2 cdr talents seem like placeholder to me
slow saddle
Deffo bigger normal ms please
latent moss
also Colossus is kind of "focus MS" themed already
y
slow saddle
10% on op🤣
latent moss
but its fine for colossus if their goal is to make it do
MASSIVE hits
while slayer is more massive executes
and im fine with that
smoky kayak
idk if slayer is massive executes, looks like a lot more sustained damage than burst
minor gust
two cd nodes make sense if tactician is changed 
tulip girder
the second one is a type from wowhead
smoky kayak
if Tactician and Bloodthirst are changed
smoky kayak
the second one is a type from wowhead
no, they're both on the tree
latent moss
idk if slayer is *massive* executes, looks like a lot more sustained damage than...
more like massive sd's since u will stack marked for execution and slay
probably
smoky kayak
the second one is a type from wowhead
smoky kayak
probably, but they both suck regardless
tulip girder
smoky kayak
I feel like they're both at least semi-placeholder
latent moss
same
smoky kayak
that's not a typo then, they must've edited it
cause I've had this page open all day
tulip girder
yeah could be they changed the picture after noticing the error
smoky kayak
even their text preview is double cooldown
bronze hound
Yeah the original article had it right. Wowhead had a error at first
minor gust
another OP % mod is 1 more step to pushing MS out
smoky kayak
Yeah the original article had it right. Wowhead had a error at first
It's not WH's error at all if they made the error lol
in fact, I just reloaded and the picture is fixed, but the text description isn't 🤣
bronze hound
No i mean the Blue Post had it correct and Wowhead had it wrong at first. Thats all
smoky kayak
the blue post didn't have it correct
slow saddle
Just makes ms a way to get op procs🤣
smoky kayak
WH didn't have it wrong
WH took it directly from the bluepost
which was then edited
bronze hound
Im lost 
wary raft
blizzard post screenshot and its wrong-> wowhead takes the incorrect screenshot and uses it for article-> blizzard fixes the incorrect screenshot
that is in chronological order btw
smoky kayak
actually Wowhead copied the text, not the screenshot (which was, and still is, also wrong)
but yes
Blizzard fucked up, and sneakily tried to fix it
bronze hound
We had it good from what i saw. The Monk trees where straight up hard to read and understand.
slow saddle
But why op in trees
kind saffron
Assuming the procced bladestorms are not "passive", how do you guys feel about the fact that channeling will be a core focus in both arms hero talents?
I'm trying to keep an open mind to it (eye beam exists), but i'm definitely more of a m+ player so i have some preconceived biases against uncancellable (maybe) channels and i'm curious what you guys think
wary raft
Assuming the procced bladestorms are not "passive", how do you guys feel about t...
if both of the channeled buttons do a lot of damage and look/feel cool then they will be fun, if not they will suck 
smoky kayak
Assuming the procced bladestorms are not "passive", how do you guys feel about t...
it's a single hit, which means if it's not an instant background action, it will take at most 1 second to deal its damage
- I would presume that 1s is hasted (like normal bladestorm), and since it triggers off of Overpower/Bloodthirst, that means it should fall completely within the GCD
So even if it's not a background action, the hypothetical channel shouldn't disrupt normal gameplay, since it should finish before the GCD is up anyway
smoky kayak
Reducing CD on Overpower would be a bad bonus right now, but we don't know what other changes they're making to Arms
Maybe it's a bad bonus and they'll buff/change it somehow, or maybe they're planning to move away from the current Tactician gameplay; we'll just have to wait and see
frank yew
if they're willing to remove a spell as "core" as essence font from mistweaver it stands to reason anything is on the table
smoky kayak
I mean yeah, it is a new expansion, and new expansions typically come with some amount of core changes to most specializations
summer shore
Tehn its super bad
kind saffron
heroic leap is off gcd though, but if it's hasted and 1s i suppose the easy solution is to greed slightly less. 1s isn't going to be bad at all
smoky kayak
I also have it on very good authority that Arms is getting reworks anyway, so the fact that these trees appear designed in mind with changes we haven't seen... well it checks out
kind saffron
ooh right, how exciting 👀
rare kite
I also have it on very good authority that Arms is getting reworks anyway, so th...
i mean it has to be get reworked, overpower cdr with current arms is beyond pointless
so makes sense
smoky kayak
heroic leap is off gcd though, but if it's hasted and 1s i suppose the easy solu...
Yeah I mean, technically a mid-GCD channel can still be slightly disruptive if you need to leap that instant or something
however, those events shouldn't confluent very often, and if they do, you should learn pretty quick to just not press BT/OP right before you're going to want to leap
there's also the potential that you could use a /cancelaura to avoid the problem entirely
tulip girder
I hope so. All these buffs over buffs over buffs are kinda a bad design in my opinion. Let the skills stand on its own with a bit of rage management and decent cooldown windows.
smoky kayak
Overall, even if it's not an instant background action, as long as the channel ends before the GCD sweep, it shoudn't be disruptive outside of the most fringe cases
kind saffron
Yup, exactly. Maybe they'll get rid of hurricane / change that interaction and this is a non-issue im worrying about. But I also agree that it's easy to just not hit OP during greed situations
smoky kayak
I think hurricane will probably go
tulip girder
can we currently use extra action button druing BS?
smoky kayak
and even if it doesn't, I don't think it would stack on Slayer proc
they'd have to completely rework the current driver (which is based on BS cast, it doesn't actually care how many times Bladestorm spins), and I feel like it'd result in some iffy proc streaks/starvation issues
Before they made Bladestorm not canceallable, you could cast and insta cancel Bladestorm and Hurricane would just keep ticking all the way to max, which is probably what would happen right now if you implemented the Slayer-1 tick
Plus Hurricane kinda sucks anyway; it's strong, but just robs Bladestorm of direct damage
kind saffron
yeah that's a reasonable reason to think it might change or go away. i also dont like the idea of even considering hitting BS to extend a procced hurricane window
prefer the skill ceiling exercises to come from elsewhere personally
smoky kayak
Yeah I feel like it'd lead to some wonky gameplay
kind saffron
btw while you're here archi, im a long, long time arms onetrick and i just want to directly appreciate your measured takes on here regardling almost literally everything arms lol, i sanity check my takes here against yours often :p
smoky kayak
not to mention how lucky you get in repeat procs within Hurricane's buff window to try to keep it stacked
tulip girder
yeah would be nice if BS would shred again.
kind saffron
ok dont say that, now you're scaring me
smoky kayak
btw while you're here archi, im a long, _long_ time arms onetrick and i just wan...
lol careful who might overhear you say that 🤣
but thanks nonetheless, appreciate it
smoky kayak
it's fun to speculate and think about what could be
but yeah, can't take it too seriously right now
fresh spire
I like the sound of the bladestorm thing. Though I question hurricane and unhinged.
smoky kayak
I'm genuinely excited right now though, Colossus was... interesting, but kinda snooze
Slayer is getting me hyped, it's kind of simple but still seems like it could be a lot of fun
kind saffron
i think it's really nice to look at the obvious insights / headwinds driving surface level or early changes and try to identify what the devs are thinking about
fresh spire
If we had a 1 second bs that still cast ms. It has value
tulip girder
it's fun to speculate and think about what could be
thats the fun part of rpgs.
minor gust
Bladestorm procs also procing 1 MS from unhinged would be cool
fresh spire
Room for some interesting style play to happen.
smoky kayak
thats the fun part of rpgs.
it's the fun part about wow's content cycles; as annoying as it can be when Blizz changes everything out from under you (especially if it's something you really love), I greatly enjoy these time periods
kind saffron
i think throughout SL we got the warrior dev(s) to think about damage profiles for arms, and I think DF they addressed a fair amount of that, and now they're starting to pay attention to utility too
smoky kayak
For all their other faults, Blizz is pretty good at iterating
but they also take a lot of bold risks, and many of those ideas fall flat in epic fashion
kind saffron
well i was a mega doomer during legion / BFA but they clearly abandoned gacha game velocity by SL so i'm hopeful again, and each iteration has absolutely been an improvement
smoky kayak
Arms has kinda been all over the place, but Fury is a really good example of iterating from Legion -> Now, just look at the evolution of Rampage, etc
kind saffron
oops i might be talking about system design and not class design for a moment
oh yeah, absolutely
minor gust
I just wish Blizz would keep more good things kinda sad to see S3 arms tier is not in the slayer tree
random ibex
Can someone post the season 3 e cute graphic?
smoky kayak
I just wish Blizz would keep more good things kinda sad to see S3 arms tier is n...
I knew it would be "increased Sudden Death proc rate" but I really thought they'd go the route of S3 Arms as well - some kind of AoE on SD proc
But this is hype too
kind saffron
agreed, i personally really liked the execute TC rend application in keys, really satisfying while not dramatically affecting the skill floor or ceiling too. but maybe it will come back
i think the idea of SD fueling BS, and more BS more often is their idea of rounding out the arms profile here. i am happy they are thinking about this, tho idk if i love it yet
minor gust
theres still the chance it gets added in the arms spec tree but it woulda worked so well with the slayer tree
get rid of one of these worthless nodes like OP cd or dmg and replace it with auto TC
tulip girder
well i was a mega doomer during legion / BFA but they clearly abandoned gacha ga...
I actually like legion arms a lot.
kind saffron
^sorry, i was thinking more about the general game systems, i got triggered LOL. i dont have a super strong opinion about focused rage hell etc
worldly kernel
legion arms was good, had a good mix. But it was nowhere as good as mop
tulip girder
didnt played mop
smoky kayak
I didn't really like Focused Rage, but it was very strong and popular (often goes hand in hand lol) in Tomb
Not sure we'll see it come back again though, oGCD just has too much inflation unless you slow down the main rotation to compensate
worldly kernel
( IMO ) it was peak arms i'd compare it to probably BFA s4 level of strong because at the time fury was still the better spec by far but arms was still competitive
hazy flower
Not sure we'll see it come back again though, oGCD just has too much inflation u...
I dont know if it's just me but current arms doesn't really feel fast
Sure it does in BL but which class doesnt
so off gcd button wouldn't inflate the speed of the gameplay to me
worldly kernel
i like that it's not like OL rogue and prot pal
latent moss
I dont know if it's just me but current arms doesn't really feel fast
it is really fast compared to sl
quasi torrent
( IMO ) it was peak arms i'd compare it to probably BFA s4 level of strong becau...
in tomb fury was certainly not better
worldly kernel
in tomb fury was certainly not better
talking about arms vs fury mop
hazy flower
every person that played in sl
only complains about sl
I didnt miss anything good
worldly kernel
arms -> what is first 2 raid tiers -> gavel
quasi torrent
Me when my spec is perfectly designed for the fight
(gets gapped by WL, boomi, dk, hunter)
hazy flower
Me when my spec is perfectly designed for the fight
(gets gapped by WL, boomi, d...
what fight
quasi torrent
Im not sure i agree condemn being better gameplay
quasi torrent
what fight
sire
latent moss
Im not sure i agree condemn being better gameplay
nf arms
i was talking about sl in general
hazy flower
how is that ideally designed
latent moss
not first tier
smoky kayak
I dont know if it's just me but current arms doesn't really feel fast
it's not fast compared to Fury, but it is basically GCD locked and generally has 20-50% haste (granted we're in a late tier, so lots of gear inflation)
But unless it has a really long cooldown, adding any amount of oGCD on top of that is just raw inflation, and Arms really shouldn't be as fast as Fury
latent moss
condemn was awful
quasi torrent
I'm legit asking
It was about as good as it got for condemn arms
U played AM warbreaker
worldly kernel
venthyr arms at first looked so cool
quasi torrent
u had burst aoe for the smol adds
tulip girder
s4 shadowlands condemn playstyle was so freaking boring
latent moss
s4 
quasi torrent
during p2 the boss spawns a wep which perfectly lined up with ur SS timers which allowed u to cleave condemn to boss
And in p3 u get to press condemn again
can leap platforms
reflect knock last phase
unfortunately u did no dam
smoky kayak
you could do interesting things with Condemn, but I agree with Blizz that it was a little too oppressive on the rotation
tulip girder
"a little" 🙂
quasi torrent
press condemn keybind (i press MS to refresh DW)
latent moss
nf was light at the end of the tunnel
smoky kayak
I wouldn't hate if it were something that was used part time, but I wouldn't want it to be a major part of the class/spec design
kind saffron
I like condemn but it feels pretty frustrating too when you hit your button and the mob drops below 80% and you just whiffed / messed up your setup or whatever
but that's more of an ability that stops being castable at a certain threshold problem than a condemn specific issue
latent moss
execute also doesnt feel like execute when u have it for more than u dont
tulip girder
execute hasn't felt like execute since a long time.
kind saffron
i think as a m+ lifer i see execute diffferently than most of you in the sense that it's more fun and engaging for me in a min-maxxy sweeping strikes way than a traditional raid fight kind of way, if that makes sense. probably biases how i see it
worldly kernel
may be a hot take but they need to dial down the rotation and bring it back to wotlk simplicity but just with the new CD's they've added over a couple of xpacs because pressing more buttons just doesn't make it feel better. Just make the abilities feel more meaningful to press and do more damage. I was talking to someone and make it so CS gives higher damage amp and take off the MS damage% off of op and just make MS hit harder in general.
I mean you use exe like you do in raid in keys also, just in dungeons you're a lot more versatile on how you can use it
tulip girder
yeah the damage between one MS and another is to freaking huge in my opinion
kind saffron
ya, but it probably also means i derive more fun / misery from it differently than in raid :p
rain pagoda
I wonder if these procced Bladestorms are going to still grant CC immunity.
kind saffron
for example, a lot of people on here seem to talk about execute loop implying it's boring (in ST), but I personally think the EP-MS-SS relationship is funnest part about arms in keys
nova marsh
I wonder if these procced Bladestorms are going to still grant CC immunity.
That'd be a bit nuts for pvp I think
Imagine just breaking out of a slow from an OP
rain pagoda
yeah seems too strong to me. probably wont apply a buff to the player at all. just a quick animation maybe
outer holly
A single aoe damage proc kind of just sounds like WW, saying it procs BS seems like it should imply some skill specific utility
rain pagoda
well its gonna give you deep wounds and overwhelm right? thats something
smoky kayak
I wonder if these procced Bladestorms are going to still grant CC immunity.
that's actually a great question, if it isn't an instant background action and does proc a mini-channel
I'm gonna make a note of that one
tulip girder
couldn't that f*** up some mechanics? Like dausegne not getting up with a bad timing?
ah wrong boss, which one was it with all the adds on the upper platforms?
tulip girder
dathea
tulip girder
yeah was in the wrong raid
kind saffron
i totally assumed it was going to trigger BS in its entirety, given how i feel like it's implied the stacks will make those BS's tick more, and the fact that the charge movement snare breaking stuff is pretty clearly pvp focused imo
otherwise yeah, i figured it would say "whirlwind" or they'd name a new attack maybe. like slayer strike
kind saffron
as for if it would be insane that OP breaks you out of CC, i don't think so, given how precedents like that already exist for fury in pvp with the pvp talent that makes BT break snares.
its actually kind of the frustrating thing about arms, because a lot of the times our utility is just overloaded into things that are helpful in pvp (tankiness, mortal wounds, burst/execute damage, intervene as an entire mitigation concept, etc) and it tends to defang our utility in pve because otherwise we'd be even more overloaded in arena
outer holly
It implies it interacts with bladestorm falents
I didn't take this into consideration, I already forgot the BS talents
fringe canopy
guys thunderclap on cooldown or just use to spread rend?
sage badge
Thunderclap is filler in ST and aoe.
sharp dust
I read bladestorm in the Slayer tree and i had to find this golden comment from a while back
minor gust
That guy is not having a good day today
proper garden
sharp dust
Omegalul
sage badge
jade ember
yeah look p dope
hardy olive
is slayer the way to go or its gona be fight oriented
jade ember
impossible to tell until we get our hands on things and see what tuning is like
hardy olive
@sage badge slayer owns
untold trench
No way to know, but if tuning is there, I presume execute dam will be a bit more valuable on some prog fights
jade ember
lets be real you should choose based on what's more important, being 5% larger or leaping more often
untold trench
Size matters
jade ember
real and true
hidden bough
aight i got mentioned in max's stream
jade ember
man slayer arms stacks so many %dam bonuses, overwhelmed, csmash, deep wounds
jade ember
i mean it certainly could be just as good for fury
i really miss bladestorm as fury glad to see it come back
hardy olive
sub 35 we gona big Execute and spining xD
teal fossil
man slayer arms stacks so many %dam bonuses, overwhelmed, csmash, deep wounds
Honestly not more than any other class
teal fossil
sub 35 we gona big Execute and spining xD
Slayer doesn’t have INSANE synergy with sub 35 tbh
It’s good but not super cranking
untold trench
Hey, at least arms get some self sustain with SD
teal fossil
i find it funny that the only sub 35 synergy In the tree is the attack speed
smoky kayak
No way to know, but if tuning is there, I presume execute dam will be a bit more...
it's worth pointing out that Slayer doesn't actually do anything specific within the Execute phase
Everything is tied to Marked for Execution, Flurry Bladestorms, and Sudden Death, each of which are random procs disassociated from the actual execute phase
so it's an "execute spec" in theme, but not actually a 35/20% execute enhancing spec
TBH depending on how Overpower works in TWW, you might actually get less value out of Slayer come 35/20% 😬
Well, I guess that's not entirely true - Thrill of the Kill does proc off regular executes, so there's some small benefit associated with the phase (depending on how frequently you get SD procs, anyway)
latent moss
im glad they didnt make it a <35% tree
it seems they are aware that being shoehorned into the last 35% isnt fun
if something doesnt go your way
getting a mechanic for example
dropping jugg etc
losing uptime in tom cs overlaps pips proc etc
sure this applies to most specs
but when the majority of ur overall dmg
is during that phase and something bad happens
its over for you
untold trench
Well, I guess that's not entirely true - Thrill of the Kill does proc off regula...
Lets pray the %crit dam will at least make it a netgain 
smoky kayak
The crit dam also triggers off Maarked
smoky kayak
it seems they are aware that being shoehorned into the last 35% isnt fun
I agree, it was a big problem in Legion, despite also having potential for all-star replays
I like that Slayer seems like it will be very focused on throughput more so than burst, I'm curious how Colossus will feel in comparison, given the relatively low cooldown on Demolish
Still not sure about Mountain Thane, given all the RNG involved it could feel kind of spikey? I have a strong suspicion it's going to see some reworks though
hardy olive
im feeling like MT = fury m+ Colosus = arms m+ Slayer = raid
jade ember
true
latent moss
@smoky kayak sorry for the ping but im intrigued what you think about the ravager cdr node in thane
jade ember
execute sets would favor slayer, stuff like that
latent moss
since its mostly likely getting removed
maybe htye will change it to something else?
or maybe they dont want ravager gone?
my guess is that thane was pretty early
and they didnt know yet
smoky kayak
Idk, it could just change to affect Bladestorm for Fury or Ravager for Prot (assuming they keep it)
or change to something else entirely
smoky kayak
Yeah, tbh I'd rather Mountain Thane leaned into big Thunder Claps/Blasts
what we initially saw... didn't look promising, though that may just be due to placeholder numbers and whatnot
jade ember
unless they just take rav away
jade ember
oh did they say that bladestorm is gonna be in the warrior tree?
interdasting
hmm the note in the Slayer tree says is the spec tree, which Rav is also in
unless I'm missing something
which is possible because it is late and I am myself
teal fossil
they didnt say its in the warrior tree
so it could be in either
i cant imagine they want prot to access bladestorm
so who knows
teal fossil
yeah thats what i thought
but it says specialization talents
just means its in talents
jade ember
I kinda read that as Fury/Arms tree
Otherwise they would have said class/warrior talents rite
teal fossil
not neccesarily
but i do agree iwth you that its gonna be in spec tree
prot war with bladestorm is too weird
jade ember
idk why they'd say spec talent if it wasn't a spec talent but it def doesn't make sense to be in the general tree ye
minor gust
agreed the word specialization is pretty specific
steep osprey
Still not sure about Mountain Thane, given all the RNG involved it could feel ki...
I think there's no way they're not going to change the 10% chance on Avatar to proc, that's ridiciulously too low on top of the already low chance to proc Lightning Strikes
jade ember
ya a 1% chance of something feels awfully low
steep osprey
Where do I check all the available hero talent trees on wowhead?
steep osprey
oh thanks
Also, I think Ravager is staying considering Mountain Thane has a node that reduces it's cd
BUt that could be changed
There's no way we're gonna use Constant Pressure if Slayer Reflexes is the choice node
Also, slayer reflexes sucks on arms considering the amount of OP resets they get
zealous basin
Ye, Constant Press is better
I have my share of doubt on tunnel vision
Useful on bosses, kinda meh in m+ maybe
steep osprey
More damage to primary targets that you wanna kill fast is pretty important in m+
snow flame
we gots lots of unseen stuff
steep osprey
True
I was thinking of this but I think they want you to have 3 stacks of marked for execution when you leave BS
steep osprey
Which means you get 15 cdr right of the bat
snow flame
which would be crazy
steep osprey
yeah it might be uncapped
Maybe but it probably won't work with cleave
you'd have to change targets
to execute them
and get bs off faster
being in bs most of the time is gonna be weird tho
lol
you're just a beyblade
I wonder if BS is gonna last longer if it does 10 hits
or if they're gonna move those 3 hits into the main ability
outer holly
you're just a beyblade
fuck yes, diablo barbarian vibes
steep osprey
with the same channel time
smoky kayak
oh yeah, doesnt that imply ravager and bladestorm can co exist
not when thane was made well in advance, it could also just reflect a change in direction
steep osprey
Oh nvm, they already put that in the description lol
I really need to know if Frenetic Fury is the actual cast of BS that makes you unable to do anything or if it's like a auto WW cast
But if it strikes enemies once, that would mean that it's during the GCD right after BT/OP but Idk
snow flame
also will this one bladestorm apply what bleeds normal bladestorm does
steep osprey
steep osprey
also will this one bladestorm apply what bleeds normal bladestorm does
damn if it does apply DW, that would be cool af
Most likely it will
snow flame
also will it give the passive benefits bs does in the talent tree
if you take the nodes
lots of questiosn
steep osprey
one stack of hurricane
What if it works with unhinged and casts a MS
LMAO
what if it works with merciless bonegrinder
so many possibilities
I wanna know what's the uptime of the Overwhelmed debuff at 10%
latent moss
they will remove all those talents
my guess is that
they are gonna make a choice node
between unhinged and mbg
for st/aoe
and they will rework mbg into dn/cleave
and get rid of ww spam
steep osprey
Well, I guess that's not entirely true - Thrill of the Kill does proc off regula...
What is Thrill of the Kill, can't find it anywhere
shadow ibex
attack speed buff from execute
steep osprey
oh right, thanks
shadow ibex
that node is cursed
gaunt owl
nah its not cursed
steep osprey
I wonder if they're gonna squish our damage stats
steep osprey
because if they don't it will go to legion numbers next expansion lmao
MS already crits for 300k-400k
that's gonna get way more in TWW
sharp needle
Squish coming in the expac after TWW
latent moss
yep
sharp needle
Hey ready to see a lot of 6 figure numbers 😉
steep osprey
I hate squish actually, i wanna do millions
There's already 6 figure numbers but they're not that frequent
sharp needle
By 6 I mean 7 lmao
steep osprey
Glacial Spike does 1m in cds
But that's the only ability I know that does that much
stable fiber
Glacial Spike does 1m in cds
i got fyr'alath to crit for 2 mill on tindral ❤️
teal fossil
what if it works with merciless bonegrinder
yeah ppl are so focused on hurricane
when both MBG and unhinged is right there
gaunt owl
if we compare with live
unhinged dont send on first tick
so they have to do some change for that one
teal fossil
then we still cooking with mbg
stable fiber
its second and fifth i think
for sure first one is on second tick and second one is around the 5th tick
gaunt owl
wanted to check
combat log so bugged
it report the fucking craft from somebody
nice one
rare kite
how many stacks of hurricane would the procced bladestorm give?
stable fiber
depends on how long the bladestorm lasts right
stable fiber
its 2nd tick and 4th tick
buoyant axle
do we channel this too or is it like rogue blade flurry
stable fiber
think its like blade flurry
or else it would feel horrible to randomly just not be able to push buttons
it quite literally has to be like blade flurry or it ruins the fun
shadow ibex
i wish frenetic was MS and not OP
shadow ibex
just what i needed more reason to prio OP
rare kite
OP is not gonna be affected by tactician
guaranteed
or atleast tactician will proc a shit ton less. no way they would have cdr talent for OP if not
gaunt owl
and 2 sources to reset OP
when we already proc it pretty much all the time
they probably wanna make OP be meatier like it was back in the day
shadow ibex
i think they will just change tact % to not be so high
hardy olive
or removed
shadow ibex
no way it leaves tact entirely ppl would complain about empty globals
or endless slam spam
and i doubt CS gets put on tact
if tom got removed it could since its just trading one way to have perma uptime on dmg buff for another
rare kite
ye i doubt tact is getting put on CS as well but one could hope
gaunt owl
they could give us back tactician CS
split warbreaker again from it
lots of good possibility
rare kite
they should do both of those
why do i have a feeling blizzard thinks it's hard to balance tho
gaunt owl
would make our mastery relevant once again
latent moss
rework our mastery
fuck deep wounds
boring ass
make it do something
make it deal dmg
or something
gaunt owl
its hard to balance when they wait 3 months of suffering each time
hazy flower
Isnt every mastery boring tho
latent moss
tact to cs wouldnt fix anything imo
it would be weird as fuck
wanting to fish for procs
stable fiber
rework our mastery
its like fury mastery but you get a cool bleed
latent moss
while pressing op
kinda doesnt work
depending on tuning u will either ignore op or ignore tactician
which sucks imo
gaunt owl
depends how many buttons we has to push
latent moss
the difference was in legion u didnt even have op
well u did but u didnt play it iirc
gaunt owl
it was a talent for OP
latent moss
ye
a talent u didnt pick
so fishing for tact made sense
now it wouldnt
since op has been buffed so many times
this expac
and also slayer
rare kite
if its still the combo
it is, sometimes the numbers of the WW aren't high enough tho. there have been times where they ignore their mastery and casts same ability back to back
latent moss
is pretty much gonna get scrapped
i hope it does
nerf op into the ground
OR
make it giga
but a lot more rare
latent moss
fury execute has been shit for ages
latent moss
crushing blow went from ur hardest hitter in 9.2 to your hardest hitter in 10.0
they forgot about cb
i guess
rare kite
ye auras are getting returned to 0, happens each expansion. iirc assassination rogue had insane aura buffs in slands and that got reset
gaunt owl
we started the xpac with -20 aura buff as Arms
look how silly this is now in retrospective
rare kite
oh did we actually? mb thought everyone started at 0
latent moss
slands for warriors
was just
scaling with aura buffs
we got like 32948284 aura buffs
all 3 specs
gaunt owl
i found the right one i'm sure
but it doesnt show where we started with aura buff in the changelog
gaunt owl
teal fossil
you know WW auras have not been reset since WOD or something
its some jank stuff right now
gaunt owl
6.2.3 so prepatch of Legion
ionic tapir
You guys think that tiersets will still be per spec or per hero tree now? 
rare kite
per spec
vestal smelt
I just realised that if Bladestorm remains unchanged, when selecting the Slayer hero talents you will want to take Dance of Death to increase the duration (and hits) of Bladestorm for the added % damage increase
vestal smelt
You think so?
I know they're adding BS fro Fury but I assume that will be a talent choice with Ravager
latent moss
they are most likely gonna remove ravager
vestal smelt
Hopefully not for Prot lol. That's like all of our threat and damage on giga pulls
UNless they give prot BS which sounds cool AF but also you can't block shit while doing it
latent moss
its not cool as fuck trust me i played bs on prot
in sl
with signet
its horrible
ionic tapir
per spec
Mby mby tho i think if they only do it for spec they cant have any set interaction with any hero tree abilities
vestal smelt
But spinning is just cool af
Only not cool if it also gets you one shot in high keys because you can't block lol
smoky kayak
Only not cool if it also gets you one shot in high keys because you can't block ...
defensives are enabled while bladestorming
ionic tapir
Fury should get a dizzy meter for all that spinning they doing
vestal smelt
defensives are enabled while bladestorming
Yea but how does shield block work (if it does come to prot) because you're turning your back (technically)
vestal smelt
So you reckon they're getting rid of Ravager then?
smoky kayak
For Fury maybe, but I don't think Slayer has any impact on what they will/not do for Prot
vestal smelt
I mean as a prot enjoyer I would LOVE to be able to spin lol
ionic tapir
Being able to kick and stun is just nice
smoky kayak
I don't see them giving Prot Bladestorm, if for no other reason than it doesn't feel particularly thematic and while you can use defense while channeling, it still does preclude you from some things; plus its inherently a burst AoE ability that Prot doesn't really need (though you could say the same thing about Ravager, it has different tactical aspects)
vestal smelt
Just weird that Ravager is a talent they may be removing for Fury but it's shared with Prot
rare kite
I mean as a prot enjoyer I would LOVE to be able to spin lol
you can channel demolish, close enough?
vestal smelt
you can channel demolish, close enough?
That's true
vestal smelt
I don't see them giving Prot Bladestorm, if for no other reason than it doesn't ...
The paladins in my group giga blasting and ripping threat tells me we need that snap aoe threat lol
But that's just a dps brain problem
smoky kayak
it's also kind of a scaling threat problem that blizzard has never solved very well
hence its rarely ever a problem early in an expac, but a much more common one late
vestal smelt
That's very true. They seem to forget about threat every patch that more damage comes with ilvl and then tanks have to get aura buffed for threat lol
smoky kayak
I don't think they forget, they just don't compensate for it very often; there's probably a philosophical design reason in there somewhere, but 🤷♂️
vestal smelt
What is your though on Slayer/Colossus? Which one are you leaning towards?
smoky kayak
anyway, I have no idea what they'll do for Prot; at this stage I only have about half an idea of what they'll do for Arms and Fury
I just wouldn't take the note about Bladestorm for Fury as indicative of what might happen to Prot
smoky kayak
What is your though on Slayer/Colossus? Which one are you leaning towards?
There's a pretty extensive writeup on Colossus in the pins - I'll make one for Slayer this weekend
smoky kayak
but short version
- Colossus looks interesting if a little too straightforward; it'll live or die based on how good Demolish feels
- Slayer is really interesting in every way Colossus wasn't; it's not even super complicated and doesn't really introduce anything new either, but manges to tie together several really cool concepts which I find pretty exciting
vestal smelt
The only thing that I'm a little hesitant with Slayer atm is the CDR on BS for Arms. It may end up screwing up lining up with Warbreaker and we might have to hold things
I think Slayer def feels better for Fury from my reading. Time will tell I suppose
rare kite
The only thing that I'm a little hesitant with Slayer atm is the CDR on BS for A...
don't think this will be a problem
smoky kayak
Yeah, that talent is very intriguing, because (without knowing all the proc rates involved) it looks like it could give a fair bit of cooldown reduction - it makes me curious if that's intended to stack on top of Anger Management to the point we're casting BS every 40s like it's Demolish, or if they plan to do something different with AM
vestal smelt
The only thing is that we already have CDR on BS so I'm just a little worried that we are gona have moments where we have BS up but no Warbreaker for like 15 seconds
Or vice versa
paper gulch
I think Slayer def feels better for Fury from my reading. Time will tell I suppo...
I think hurricane helps with this a little because if you warbreaker bladestorm you end up having 30% strength after CS window ends. Maybe 1-2 seconds of CS for one global. If you bladestorm outside of warbreaker you can get like 3-4 globals in at the strength bonus.
smoky kayak
pros and cons either way - more frequent Bladestorms are cool (despite the potential misalignment problem), but also means you spend more time rotationally spinning
vestal smelt
This is true^
smoky kayak
if this CDR is supposed to be a notable chunk of Slayer DPS value, it also raises the question of whether they'll finally succeed in making Bladestorm a button we actually want to press in ST
vestal smelt
Yea that would be nice
smoky kayak
I legitimately dunno; part of it hinges on what these proc rates look like, another part of it is what the class/spec changes will bring to the table
rare kite
if this CDR is supposed to be a notable chunk of Slayer DPS value, it also raise...
the solution to that is pretty simple right? can't they just make it so bladestorm hits harder on only 1 target?
vestal smelt
I wish they would do something like what they did for Templar for Tyr's where you just get a damage increase for less targets hit up to 6
smoky kayak
the solution to that is pretty simple right? can't they just make it so bladesto...
that is certainly a solution, and perhaps even the most straightforward one yeah
I would think they'd be more likely to do it by way of a talent or something like Unhinged, but 🤷♂️
vestal smelt
This would be great for BS
Better than just 1 target because if there are 2 targets or 3 (which there often are) BS might still be bad
smoky kayak
I mean theoretically they could also keep Bladestorm as a predominantly MT button, with the expectation that the ST value of Slayer comes from increased SD procs
certainly there's some kind of relationship there, since both are effects that translate into some amount of ST, but we can't know the ratios yet until we start seeing some numbers
smoky kayak
This would be great for BS
Templar is actually cracked
the crazy part is that the tree is literally Mountain Thane, but better in basically every way
latent moss
that is certainly **a** solution, and perhaps even the most straightforward one ...
fixing the st with unhinged seems pretty cringe for m+ IMO
depending on how big unhinged actually is
smoky kayak
fixing the st with unhinged seems pretty cringe for m+ IMO
how so?
rare kite
I mean theoretically they could also keep Bladestorm as a predominantly MT butto...
only thing is bladestorm applies a debuff that increases damage taken, don't see any way we wouldn't press bs on st. assuming either unhinged or hurricane is staying
smoky kayak
I wouldn't consider the current talent layout, we already know that's gonna change
latent moss
i mean if we can take unhinged in all content then sure
smoky kayak
to what degree it will change, I can't say, but it's certainly going to change
latent moss
as long as it isnt a choice node with some giga dps talent like mbg
smoky kayak
Yeah, I mean I wasn't saying Unhinged right now is a good pick, just that that it is a talent with the capability of fixing that "ST Bladestorm" problem
latent moss
y i was just saying that in case they do balance bs st around unhinged
not being able to take it in m+ will suck bad
smoky kayak
Yeah, I mean these things always hinge on the actual talent economy
Certainly you could go with a simplier concept like BS does more damage vs 1 target; there are pros and cons to each
- Sometimes there are 2 targets, but you really only want to damage one (Unhinged is also flawed here, ideally I think the extra MS' would focus your primary target)
- Unhinged is more complicated, but it also has more potential synergy with things like Colossal Might
ionic tapir
Imagine unhinged were executes not MS. With EP it would give beautiful synergy
smoky kayak
I've always felt like Arms' core theme is pretty lacking, it would be cool if Arms had some kind of gimmick, like combination attacks that modify your abilities mid-rotation and create more immediate gameplay choices
- like if you cast use Colossus Smash followed by Bladestorm, it turns into a single target Demolish instead of the regular AoE Bladestorm
- or if you cast Mortal Strike immediately followed by Overpower, it enables Execute (ala Sudden Death)
Kind of taking inspiration from Will of the Emperor in Mogu'shan, I really like the theme of Devastating Combo, though I'm not sure that kind of gameplay translates very well into WoW
hardy olive
so out of the 3 hero spec which one seems interesting
gaunt owl
we just have to wait patiently for beta
alpha gonna have too many buggy things to really grasp and get a good feelings
hardy olive
For colosus ,imagine have to press demolish in exercute phase ewwww
forest sluice
gaunt owl
they clearly gonna tune it to make it worth pushing
gaunt owl
MS / OP interaction gonna change for sure
Execute gonna be bigger considering Slayer
they really should have called this one Juggernaut
latent moss
tom is gone
gaunt owl
its Execute / Bladestorm
hardy olive
tom is gone
oh really ?
rare kite
they really should have called this one Juggernaut
only thing with that name is i associate it with X-Men and then i would assume we cannot be moved
rare kite
oh really ?
we don't know, the only thing for sure is that something is changing about overpower and/or tactician
gaunt owl
only thing with that name is i associate it with X-Men and then i would assume w...
they took inspiration of Colossus from Xmen too xD
and you have some juggernaut in the game
forest sluice
I wonder does "overwhelm" increase all damage taken or just warriors
If latter, than that's op
But wording might be incorrect
gaunt owl
clearly just warrior
forest sluice
Exactly
paper gulch
I've always felt like Arms' core theme is pretty lacking, it would be cool if Ar...
That would be really cool
gaunt owl
so will it be 15% ?
rare kite
there are some ohher things that are not specified that would be beyond broken if it worked as read. like execute not consuming the stacks for the slayer thing, if it doesn't it would imply you get cdr per execute in exe phase for bs
would be way too broken
gaunt owl
it would just reduce Bladestorm CD so much
rare kite
ye and depending on our sd proc rate the cdr might still be insane
gaunt owl
will Imminent Demise stack be consumed by Frenetic Flurry too
so instead of striking once will it be 4 ticks of bladestorm
rare kite
i would assume so
gaunt owl
lots of answer we cant get til its alpha or beta
forest sluice
Looks like half cooked tree
Ngl
Some things are cool tho
Don't really like focus on bloodthirst for fury, unless they somehow make it do damage (I hope not in current tier set way)
latent moss
not a fan of what
having a rotation
that isnt 2 button
also forums are giga funny
gaunt owl
they finally gonna stop with the boring Fury 1-2-1-2
gaunt owl
i'm 2k rio
latent moss
im so glad btw
gaunt owl
i cant pug because i dont have x/y/z
latent moss
that hero talents dont fix anything
regarding warriors
in m+ and shit
which means they will do shit in the tree
and not just band aid fix us
with hero talents
latent moss
man i can barely see straight
hazy flower
3,5k druid doing 180k overall in wm 26
latent moss
played like 20 ranked games in a row
hazy flower
you can do better
forest sluice
that isnt 2 button
Yes
latent moss
im so exhausted its beyond me
gaunt owl
3,5k druid doing 180k overall in wm 26
:xdd:
forest sluice
I took 3.2 mage in 25 tott late Tuesday night
150k overall
And died on 2nd boss
And left
latent moss
you can do better
im insanely tired and tilted
i was so close to breaking my monitor
forest sluice
steep osprey
What is this
steep osprey
What is imminent demise
latent moss
sudden death one
steep osprey
isn't that one not a choice node lmao
latent moss
he is referring to sudden death
latent moss
a talent "not everyone picks"
steep osprey
yeah but
hazy flower
we just had
steep osprey
it's not like you need a lot to pick it
hazy flower
actual braindamaged andy
steep osprey
it's very far up
hazy flower
3,3k warrior is very elitist
called ppaww dogshit because he's 3k rio
and left key
because we dont have bl
latent moss
HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
steep osprey
Ppaw is sussy
steep osprey
HAHAHAH
hazy flower
lil bro cant orange log on heroic and calls people shit
gaunt owl
thats why i dont m+
hazy flower
he was
gaunt owl
people got brain dmg from the scoring system
steep osprey
how does someone 3.3k suck
latent moss
3.6k is meaningless
gaunt owl
they all sux
latent moss
let alone 3.3
steep osprey
im 2.9k and im good
gaunt owl
the score is the poorest form of player skill ever
look at this guy
he must fucking sux
2.4k andy
steep osprey
lmao
gaunt owl
proud plover
sang is fine after they changd it
hazy flower
I mean very timeable but
steep osprey
sanguine is annoying but it's fine
hazy flower
sang is fine after they changd it
still ass
rare kite
huh you get timed out by saying the r word? didn't know, surprised i haven't said it on accident tbh
gaunt owl
its annoying to play around as tank
its because Myrtu is that stupid
so he needs the timeout
rare kite
sang is fine after they changd it
disagree, it slows down keys so goddamn much
and depending on the dungeon it is super aids
sanguine in nokhud, enjoy
proud plover
100% slows down the key but the trade off is it no longer instant heals a mob to full that decided to hard cast something in 8 stacks
gaunt owl
its really more manageable than back then for sure
quasi torrent
playing sanguine WELL as a tank is very satisfying though
unfortunately, some mobs are just too hard to play around straight up
quasi torrent
Just noober
gaunt owl
worst part was the enhance
he was bitching that i was moving
the audacity of this buff totem
as prot its not fun because people dont kick the right time
quasi torrent
playing sanguine WELL really revolves around playing 10-15s in advance as a tank
quasi torrent
removing mobs slightly out of melee of others if theyre gonna be stuck etc
its too hard to play perfect, if not impossible
just overly punishing
gloomy summit
they gotta make mickey mouse changes instead of fixing affixes
(a 17 is a push key now)
paper gulch
Do you mean next season?
drowsy cobalt
Do you guys think the extra bladestorms hit would be consumed on that short bladestorm proc?
gaunt owl
we have no idea
best case yes
and its gonna be bonkers
worst case no
lots of fine details we have to wait for alpha / beta or blizzard dev to tell how its intended to
rare kite
Do you guys think the extra bladestorms hit would be consumed on that short blad...
yes i think so, but wouldn't be surprised if not
gaunt owl
btw its time to bring back the bladestorm release gifs
and the one with the Koko the gorilla dancing in its pool
rose timber
Man i hate using BS on single target
Now there's no way we're playing a build without it
hazy flower
whats 3.6
ish
28's basically
full 28's u get a bit above 3600
man
look at this
drowsy cobalt
I was pretty much sold on the Colossus because shockwave and cleave but exe and BS on Slayer....mmmmm
boreal quartz
1 fear
hazy flower
how tf did you manage that
just pugs
drowsy cobalt
Kobolds must have stole all the candles