If your tank is pulling optimally for you and you can funnel on bosses you can probably end around 150k+ in keys 16 and higher, maybe 14 and higher depending on how hard everyone else is pumping, if you're just doing 10-12 you'll probably just be near 100k since everything dies quickly
#fury
storm kestrel
molten venture
Oh so in the higher keys you automatically do more damage?
smoky vale
yes
storm kestrel
You'll be doing more damage because the tanks will be doing bigger packs, and you'll get huge damage due to uptime of Colossus smash from you spamming cleave and mortal strike
Like, you probably won't burst a crazy high amount, but every aoe pack you should be able to pump
spare steppe
Calling Aug b tier is wild
molten venture
and why do they pull bigger when everything does more damage? isnt that counter intuitive?
spare steppe
Lining up when everyone had CDs saves time
smoky vale
because not everything does the same damage
and a lot of it is just tank daamge
if it doesnt oneshot you for dps
its playable
storm kestrel
Routing becomes basically they pull as many mobs as possible for % but it's a balance between getting a boatload of shitter mobs that don't do anything, and mobs that actually will be scary and have to be dealt with
So you will be doing huge dps cause you're probably cleaving like 5+ shitter mobs alongside maybe 3-4 real mobs every pull
molten venture
fascinating. And you guys play coloss or slayer? I currently run slayer cause I copied from murlok and saw more slayers than colossi
smoky vale
depends on key
spare steppe
It also depends on the tank
smoky vale
slayer in aa/skyreach
spare steppe
If you’re pugging and adds aren’t getting pulled into the boss/big enough pulls, colo can feel bad
storm kestrel
Slayer has a better DMG difference between ST and AOE, where as Colossus is mega skewed for AOE, and has way less ST
spare steppe
^
storm kestrel
After the patch, Colossus aoe will get even better I believe, and ST will get a minor improvement so I believe it will be the go to spec for higher m+
spare steppe
Yeah I think colo is going to take over even completely after the patch
molten venture
ah I understand, thank you so much for explaining
spare steppe
I can’t remember where I saw but demolish is supposedly 17s cd
Which should feel really nice
storm kestrel
Yeah it'll probably take some time to optimize since the CD reduction for demolish is going from 2s to 5s
molten venture
what the... thats nice
storm kestrel
It's definitely a harder spec to play though, lots of nuance with min maxing the ST damage, so I personally think if you invest the time you'll get more payout for it
That bring said, slayer is simpler and not enjoyable imo, it feels weird to not wanna press execute
molten venture
I mean thats the theme, the skilled veteran, while fury is just the angry dude who wants to kill everything, makes sense its complicated
I feel that, Ive player slayer a while now and I do miss da big smash after da other big smash. so satisfying
next canopy
Thanks all for all the m+ banter. Living vicariously through you. 
vernal mulch
does anyone have numbers for fury how our damage is gonna look after tuesday
like overall % change
young swan
nothing will change for you
inconsequential amount down in ST, inconsequential amount up in aoe (for slayer, thane doesnt change at all)
vernal mulch
inconsequential amount down in ST, inconsequential amount up in aoe (for slayer,...
i thought reap not proccing from st rampage was a decent st nerf no?
but imminent demise execute still procs reap in st right?
young swan
i thought reap not proccing from st rampage was a decent st nerf no?
its like 1%
vernal mulch
so arent we losing most of our st reap procs since we rampage more than proc execute
vernal mulch
its like 1%
oh
young swan
you're only losing BT ST reaps
vernal mulch
i thought maybe ppl would play slayer in raid cuz of those nerfs and bs buffs maybe not then
young swan
probably not
probably just skews it even further in favor of thane cause theres a smaller ST gap
vernal mulch
you're only losing BT ST reaps
bloodthirst st reaps? i thought the change was that rampage no longer triggers reap the storm unless it hits 3+ targets via improved whirlwind. so in st, rampage no longer triggers reap the storm. only execute procs
vernal mulch
probably just skews it even further in favor of thane cause theres a smaller ST ...
smaller? isnt it bigger cuz slayer gets bs buff so its also an st buff
young swan
bloodthirst st reaps? i thought the change was that rampage no longer triggers r...
the change was BT -> ramp proccing reap and now you also have to cleave
young swan
smaller? isnt it bigger cuz slayer gets bs buff so its also an st buff
1% represents the overall dps down from losing BT reaps + BS buffs
sorry if that wasnt clear
edgy widget
Slayer doesn't really lose any ST, so the gap is functionally unchanged
vernal mulch
sorry i thought slayer was getting an aoe and st buff with the bs buffs
edgy widget
Slayer does pick up some AoE, so it's actually a little closer, though Thane is still p far ahead (unless you're playing Ruin)
edgy widget
sorry i thought slayer was getting an aoe and st buff with the bs buffs
no, you're losing ST Reap and gaining BS, which more or less cancel each other out
vernal mulch
ah ok
edgy widget
BS also increases your AoE for obvious reasons, so you're gaining AoE
desert river
Hey guys, I'm new to the Discord. Just wanna ask a general question. Am i the only one who thinks Thane is way less enganging and therefore way less fun to play than Slayer?
vernal mulch
sorry if that wasnt clear
gotcha thanks for clearin that up. yea i thought the reap changes would be a bigger hit to st ngl
now i see what u mean by the difference getting smaller
by a lil bit
uneven path
Slayer *does* pick up some AoE, so it's actually a little closer, though Thane i...
When does ruin becomes better then regular rampage ?
modest condor
you will do more overall damage at 8 targets but you're giving up a huge chunk of prio target damage
so, when will it become better?
when you have 8 or more targets and there is no prio target
which is effectively never
edgy widget
When does ruin becomes better then regular rampage ?
6+ targets
modest condor
oh my bad my 8 was still going off of old numbers
uneven path
Yeh I thought so, I really enjoy slayer in M+ and am quite exited for the changes but it feels like kinda shooting yourself in the foot by playing it instead of MT
edgy widget
while you can choose to care about prio damage, that's rarely an important consideration in mass AoE
If you can play Ruin effectively, it's higher ST and very close to Thane's MT, but it requires the right dungeon, the right pull cadence, and higher mental bandwidth than just playing Thane
So yes, I would generally recommend just playing Thane
however, that does not mean you can't play Slayer successfully (with or without Ruin), and the option does exist - there are certainly high-pull count dungeons within the current season, where Ruin will work fine
uneven path
Yeh, I guess I will try slayer once the changes drop, maybe even with the ruin, but I guess I will be stucked with MT till next season or some miracle tuning.
edgy widget
The main advantage of Thane is that the gameplay is extremely smooth and reliable
hoary wigeon
Is anyone finding themselves pulling threat? I'll hold off while the tank gathers and then still somehow pull threat on some of the mobs. Drives me crazy
edgy widget
even ignoring Ruin, Slayer has a lot more RNG in whether you get Reap/SD procs when you want them, BS happens to align with Reck at a good time, etc
edgy widget
Is anyone finding themselves pulling threat? I'll hold off while the tank gather...
you shouldn't be puling threat off a planted tank, but its very common to rip threat on the pull especially if the tank is running around gathering things
uneven path
Idk why but MT just didnt hit it for me, for some reason I cant stand the hero talent on either prot nor Fury
edgy widget
happens a lot with Bears especially since they don't have a whole lot of snap threat while pulling mobs together
hoary wigeon
happens a lot with Bears especially since they don't have a whole lot of snap th...
Ah okay, it is a bear it happens with
compact knot
they gave bear the dps profile of a unholy dk without epidemic
when you dont have cds
edgy widget
but once they're planted and are actively hitting mobs, then you shouldn't be pulling off them, no
shut pivot
how is our ST dmg looking
edgy widget
I notice it on Arms a lot, even if you just charge in and Rend, you can often pull off a bear that just threw some ranged threat to pull a group in
uneven path
Do you think there will be more tuning week after 12.0.5 once they see impact of the changes, or we are basically stucked till S2 ?
shut pivot
most likely stuck we arent either UDKs neither demo locks
compact knot
Do you think there will be more tuning week after 12.0.5 once they see impact of...
probably not a lot
olive wraith
Maybe we get a 6th bleed
uneven path
Maybe we get a 6th bleed
Proced by RB 
olive wraith
And a 7th bleed with additional button
olive wraith
Should have done something for bleeds in our kit if they were gonna make use 5
uneven path
most likely stuck we arent either UDKs neither demo locks
I came to peace with realisation that this is warlock/magus world and we are just allowed to live in it
olive wraith
Idc about being meta
shut pivot
time to itemize for arms lmao
summer quail
keep troar remove rend
keep troar remove ravager. col cares more about bleeds anyway
echo rapids
I came to peace with realisation that this is warlock/magus world and we are jus...
Demonology is like a giga smooth controller ready spec that does it all
Only pet class awkwardness holds it back
uneven path
Demonology is like a giga smooth controller ready spec that does it all
Yeh I know, I played bit of demo
olive wraith
Fuck arms
uneven path
I am just watching them make the demo easier and easier to play
shut pivot
when people where like "affl is super broken op"
uneven path
Just waiting for them to automatically change your shadowbolt into hand once you have 3 shards
shut pivot
demo lock laughs and asks them to hold his beer
uneven path
For some reason blizzard hates aff
shut pivot
for some reason blizzard hates having all classes on a similar playing field
theres always the 2-3 spec that are the meta and the rests just exists in purgatory
doing hc raids getting 90+ parses and im in the midfield
now thats a bit depressing
echo rapids
Demo busted all beta and blizz just didn’t fix it
uneven path
theres always the 2-3 spec that are the meta and the rests just exists in purgat...
I would be ok with that if it was small difference cuz ppl pushing top keys were trying to squeeze every %
echo rapids
for some reason blizzard hates having all classes on a similar playing field
That’s a little much, ST balance was pretty good through the war within
uneven path
But like, I am getting completely railed but top spec
echo rapids
M+ a diff story obviously
shut pivot
in TWW i was fine the class a bit more fun to play imo
and im not only talking about S3
echo rapids
They just decided to have midnight be an expansion long tuning and redesign process
compact knot
lotta specs where designed well in tww
olive wraith
and im not only talking about S3
Fury?
compact knot
then they decided to ruin a lot
echo rapids
I don’t have a lot of hope for brown class tbh
shut pivot
i mean in general warrior feels worse to play than last 2 exp
i used to play a lot of prot in keys cause it was fun
compact knot
colo prot was peak
shut pivot
this season i do a key and im like man this is NOT fun to play
echo rapids
i mean in general warrior feels worse to play than last 2 exp
I’m convinced that classes and specs without clear and powerful theme and design just suffer
Blizz would spend all their time on DKs if they could
olive wraith
Nah
shut pivot
/takes cover
olive wraith
Iww isn’t our aoe tool
uneven path
i mean in general warrior feels worse to play than last 2 exp
For me it's how much power shifted away from rampage
It's just rage dump at this point
compact knot
target cap is fake complaint
unborn delta
we dont have any super chunky buttons any more
shut pivot
you have ferals nowdays run in M+ on 10+++ mobs just press aoe rip and does 1m dps for just pressing a button (i know its not just 1 button but i play feral and its not that far from the truth)
unborn delta
arms chunkiness feels better to me
olive wraith
Okay but our aoe is reap/clap now
Increasing cleaver cap doesn’t do much
Hot take, make us hard capped again but give us prio/funnel
compact knot
i did say make thane a funnel spec
shut pivot
Hot take, make us hard capped again but give us prio/funnel
and never get invited in any keys
olive wraith
and never get invited in any keys
Cap
compact knot
specifically with lightning strikes
shut pivot
its already hard to get into anything above a 15
olive wraith
Funnel got invited
shut pivot
dunno man spend the day queuing as fury for 15s
uneven path
Funnel got invited
On tww where there were mobs which had to die asap
olive wraith
but that’s just a community perspective thing
shut pivot
swaped to arms and magically i started getting into keys
shut pivot
unless you have a pre-made as fury id say you have a hard time getting into high keys
olive wraith
In which arms isn’t meta?
shut pivot
arms is already kinda meta for high keys
compact knot
china refuses to play anything except casters, the physical comp is better right now
modest condor
are you calling dk a caster?
shut pivot
i mean his barely melee at this point
compact knot
can attack from 40 yards
shut pivot
he is*
compact knot
i didnt say melee comp i said physical comp
modest condor
you also said casters
compact knot
thats true
modest condor
but yes, farover's group has 2 rank 1s right now
compact knot
china played BM for a little bit with the toy bug
then they switched back over to dev dh
modest condor
doesnt warlock also have a toy bug?
compact knot
yes
modest condor
silly bug abusers smh my head
uneven path
Toy bug ?
compact knot
its 25% increased damage with the same CD as lust for a 12 or 24 second duration
i believe
modest condor
there's some toys that are counted as targets so certain effects that require extra targets can trigger off of them
uneven path
there's some toys that are counted as targets so certain effects that require ex...
Ah thx for explaining
modest condor
an old example is the worn doll which was used a lot in shadowlands for example to stay in combat for old warrior soul, but also to get extra cdr from mikanikos capstone
olive wraith
Anyways. Having a funnel/prio profile doesn’t necessarily mean no invites
Community will be dumb regardless
modest condor
yeah dps warrior is in a rough spot in the later part of the tier
shut pivot
in voidspire all is good mostly cause all fights are cleave fights
on lura hc
pfff god al'mighty
undone flower
there's some toys that are counted as targets so certain effects that require ex...
maybe that's the reason i've seen some raid bosses kills being flagged with too many actors
modest condor
i dont raid anymore so im not the best person to talk about this, but when i did i also cared more about m+ performance than raid
ill be in on raid anyway because i wasnt raiding at a high end level so it was more about bringing the player than the class
but in m+ if your spec is bad you just dont get to play
shut pivot
^what i was trying to say earlier
compact knot
it was ok on beloren and its aight on l'ura on mythic
olive wraith
I got to play fury in s2 tww
compact knot
you could not play it on crown though
modest condor
i played fury in castle nathria
olive wraith
Arguably one of the worst fury m+ seasons recently
modest condor
you cant get worse than fury in castle nathria
olive wraith
Wasn’t around for that
modest condor
i played fury in s2 tww as well and it almost made me quit the game how bad we were in m+ that season
uneven path
you cant get worse than fury in castle nathria
That was really rough spot
olive wraith
Was a rough season
In comparison we’re a lot better now, even if gameplay is kinda lame
modest condor
yeah current fury is bad but it's not castle nathria bad
we got like a 20% buff in the first couple of weeks and we were still the worst dps in the raid
uneven path
i played fury in s2 tww as well and it almost made me quit the game how bad we w...
Actually made me quite, I hated the tier set with every fiber in my body, and that caster just go straight up better tier sets
shut pivot
uneven path
we got like a 20% buff in the first couple of weeks and we were still the worst ...
It was getting insanely rage starved with nothing to press iirc
shut pivot
i was on the top of my raidgroup only on dragons
modest condor
It was getting insanely rage starved with nothing to press iirc
that was arms, fury always has something to press
shut pivot
92k dps on voracious i was like 5th~
modest condor
arms was better than fury until .5
uneven path
that was arms, fury always has something to press
Well ww but that was like hitting boss with wet paper bag
modest condor
sludgefist was the OG "orange parsing fury losing to grey parsing affli"
shut pivot
or MM hunter
uneven path
sludgefist was the OG "orange parsing fury losing to grey parsing affli"
Aff had some insane conduit for malefic rapture
hearty ravine
is thane or slayer better for cosmos?
echo rapids
is thane or slayer better for cosmos?
Probably slightly slayer with a slightly better P3 single target?
azure wolf
Haven’t been around much lately — how does the discord feel about the fury changes what’s the expected move?
worn rain
Haven’t been around much lately — how does the discord feel about the fury chang...
dead thing can't move
frozen scarab
what do people do after getting all hero available gear
worn rain
get better heroic gear - get myth gear - wait for next week for crests
quiet geyser
you cant get worse than fury in castle nathria
I still think this tier is bordering nathria levels of bad, atleast for raid.
young swan
I still think this tier is bordering nathria levels of bad, atleast for raid.
nah
not even close
like i can understand how it could feel that way
but its genuinely not close
quiet geyser
Fury was atleast decent for the last 2 in nathria due to being add heavy and important adds... this tier fury legit just sucks for every fight
dapper goblet
fury was bad on sire
you'd play arms to condemn spam the sword
but still worse than just playing a better class
(dk)
fury was decent on slg though i'll give u that
quiet geyser
fury was decent on slg though i'll give u that
Even this alone makes it better than this current tier lmao
Fury just stinks
worn rain
we still have room to fall lower
quiet geyser
Except its completely irrelevant this tier, slg it was important
worn rain
to dazar'alor arms level
dapper goblet
killing adds is killing adds
quiet geyser
Not even close, importance of those adds or how fast they actually die plays a huge role
Everything this tier, by this point literally just blows up
Like even tww s1 was bad for fury... but it was goated on brood atleast which was a bit of a wall for a lot of people lol
Very stinky across the board this tier
dapper goblet
i mean you werent bringing fury cuz it was a big owner on that fight, it was just decent while getting carried by the 5+ hunters doing way more to the adds.
also pretty sure fury's ST this tier is better than it was in castle
also i'm talking about early prog too not 6 weeks down the line with the 4+ buffs it got
quiet geyser
Im comparing it to like nathria .5
When it got like 25% in aura buffs lmao
Cumulative
sudden tusk
sound familiar....
quiet geyser
Still feel like it would have been decent on SLG though.
modest condor
saying nf fury wasnt bad is funny when we didnt play nf until halfway through the tier and we specifically just said not halfway through the tier
wicked silo
What would be the best missive to put on a crafted cloak ?
Haste and Mastery again ?
modest condor
yeah
quiet geyser
This tier just feels extra shitty cuz not only does fury suck, it feels like a liability on pretty much every boss
wicked silo
And what about embellishment, if I already have one on bracers I can't have one on cloak right ?
modest condor
you can have 2 embellishments
wicked silo
And what would you suggest for the cloak one ? Same as the bracers one ?
Maybe it depends on different factors idk i'm big rookie
quiet geyser
Has bobby blessed you have 2 mythic weapons from your vault yet?
If not, you should be crafting a 2her first and foremost
wicked silo
I should wait to get 4 sparks before crafting the adherent's silken shroud you mean ?
young swan
Fury was atleast decent for the last 2 in nathria due to being add heavy and imp...
fury was bad on every boss until the last like 1-2 months of the tier
fury was not good on sire or generals
quiet geyser
Ok but compare sire or generals to even the last 3 of this tier lol
Mind you we could still technically get some tuning before patch is over I guess
young swan
yeah they were conceptually fine fights for fury and it still sucked ass 😭
that makes it much worse
lura is quite similar to denathrius in some respects
generals was pretty well made for fury and it still was some donkey
quiet geyser
Im prob just over dooming the current i guess. But man
My passion is getting hit way harder this tier than it did in nathria haha
young swan
yeah i quit within the first month because covenants were dogshit and so was fury
game was just straight up bad
dont think its ever been worse than s1 SL
maybe s1 bfa is comparable
quiet geyser
SL in general was just dogshit cuz fury was super exciting LITERALLY every major patch
Then got nuked the day before release
dapper goblet
nothing worse than trying to provide feedback in SL beta and it getting ignored
dapper goblet
just for warrior in general to turn out like a hot piece of poop
quiet geyser
https://tenor.com/view/fell-for-it-again-award-gif-13516122002380463869
Bro literally lmao
dapper goblet
also them nerfing legendaries that were awful
like actually the most clueless theyve ever been
quiet geyser
Patch 1: every1 super excited for venth in beta. Was literally a warriors wet dream. They nuked the shit out of it just before release and made us 30% weaker than literally everything
Patch 2: excited for venth again, then they nerfed the venth legendary day before release.. and also made a final boss that venth was kinda useless with anyways
Patch 3: every1 jumped on the necrolord train.. xeos gets us nerfed day before patch again
vocal thorn
lmao
vocal thorn
dude im fucking stupid unfort
sudden tusk
necrolord warrior was cringe
banner bitch mode
lemme just leap out to my range stack to buff em
smoky vale
@vocal thorn are you guys raiding tonight?
sudden tusk
never played past heroic week sanctum tho i dodged alot of that bs
smoky vale
or is today the one night off
vocal thorn
<@123628909991428100> are you guys raiding tonight?
maybe in 2hrs not sure
sudden tusk
its prob like a if everyone wants to game you can just game angle
smoky vale
who can level me while i study for my exam
sudden tusk
recently found out you can add the gcd swoop to arcui cdm so im living the dream rn
dim spindle
Patch 1: every1 super excited for venth in beta. Was literally a warriors wet dr...
Right, but... condemn
Necro was for elitists anyway
worn rain
does anyone has approx numbers for ring set?
sudden tusk
ring set is decent on ST but loses value on aoe
grand estuary
so are we gettnig the tclap nerfs on tuesday or no
quiet geyser
no
red berry
ring set is decent on ST but loses value on aoe
is it just because one of the rings is crit?
sudden tusk
stats arent really the issue, but onec you start getting stuff like the neck/ring off midnight falls the extra sockets just overtake it
its really good for just a hero track item, but it will fall off if you cant get them both myth
worn rain
Nexus sounds like good choice for bonus rolls tho
low number of items - decent item pool
worn sierra
dumb question - is it okay to have 0 versatility? (Well i don't really have 0 vers but I only have 1 item with vers)
worn rain
dumb question - is it okay to have 0 versatility? (Well i don't really have 0 ve...
usually good
but to make sure you sim your gear
worn sierra
got it. just a hypothetical since outside of my cape, I have virtually 0 vers. That said I am mixing Arms & Fury depending on the fight/content (Arms primarily for raids) so i wanna make sure I don't scuff myself
worn rain
vers will be more viable later in the expansion when diminishing gonna inevitably eat some portion of our best stat
spare steppe
Are there any healers that feel like warrior? Stupid question but figured I’d ask
worn rain
usually healer gameplay based on very diffirent logic than dps
undone flower
Clicking on party frames is too much diff, none is like fury
compact knot
Are there any healers that feel like warrior? Stupid question but figured I’d as...
not a lot are like builder spender, possibly hpal, but i know MW monk last season with the fistweaving build was fun cause you just did a dps rotation on mobs and healed your team which i enjoyed
spare steppe
i'll check that out. i know it'll be different, just trying to understand from a healing perspective (never healed before)
compact knot
im also playing holy priest rn, its KINDA like unholy dk in the sense that you get stacks of your buttons and it enchaces them, not so much like fury
it also does pretty good damage in m+ rn with holy fire if you play the non halo build
i think if you are a fury warrior player and want to play a caster dps spriest is literally the same thing but ranged ngl
builder spender good self healing
brick wall spec
undone flower
goblin deez nuts
my fav healer is rdruid and monk second, same reason as khazix, fistweaving, raid was not enjoyable tho
I don’t like to cast yes
hearty ravine
If I already have the crafted bracers and weapon, is there anything else I should craft?
keen kindle
If I already have the crafted bracers and weapon, is there anything else I shoul...
You should eventually want to move onto crafted dual arcanoweave
and take embellishement off weap
But realistically, craft for ilvl
hearty ravine
really, is that better than hunt on the weapon?
keen kindle
For me it simmed a lot better
But results may vary. I have a maxed out hero dawnsong so that probally plays a factor
Also arcano has the group component to consider
hearty ravine
ok cool ill check it out, thanks
undone flower
For me it simmed a lot better
Did you sim the crafted piece embellish + 289 off hand vs crafted piece non embellish + embellish weapon ?
keen kindle
I did not
undone flower
Need to separate the fact you gain 9 ilvl by just crafting
keen kindle
hence results may vary, but I'm also repeating what's said in wowhead's guide
frozen scarab
is it jsut me or are competitive groups filled with the worst players possible
worn rain
ignore those tickers
usually there is no correlation between them and real intent of certain group
edgy widget
You should eventually want to move onto crafted dual arcanoweave
Fury continues favoring Hunt OH; I'd only recommend swapping to double Arcano if you find a decent M weapon and are also playing Arms
sullen dove
undone flower
the previous ones still work
sullen dove
some of em
or maybe if u mean directly last xpac prolly yea
assume they'll be like turned off soon
smoky vale
some of em
sullen dove
undone flower
idk which one exactly tbf, I know 1 old one still is usable, bc I buy those
hearty ravine
Fury continues favoring Hunt OH; I'd only recommend swapping to double Arcano if...
so hunt over double arcano even if double arcano sims higher?
edgy widget
My point was that double arcano should not be summing higher unless you have some serious gear disparity
For example, if you’re replacing a H cloak with a M crafted Arcano, but then a non embellished M craft would still be better anyway
hearty ravine
oh gotcha, that makes sense
edgy widget
I can’t speak to every situation without actually looking at it, but all else being equal, it would be fairly unusual for double arcano to come out ahead
gaunt loom
why isn’t it mentioned in the patch notes that the reap the storm proc chance from mortal strike and bloodthirst got removed?
compact knot
why isn’t it mentioned in the patch notes that the reap the storm proc chance fr...
it is
they just worded it differently this time
gaunt loom
wait what
compact knot
its in the blizzard patch notes also
compact knot
i could see that happening yeah
but nah they just replaced those 2 old effects with the 2 new ones
gaunt loom
so it should be understood as a full replacement
sudden tusk
well cleave and rampage also have to hit mltiple targets
compact knot
so it should be understood as a full replacement
correct
gaunt loom
then that would change the skill priority, wouldn’t it?
compact knot
they worded it weirdly for some reason
sudden tusk
not really you dont change how you play at all it just happens
compact knot
slayer plays the exact same
night dune
Can someone help me wrap my head around the new MT opener? OF -> CDs + TC -> Ramp feels so weird after two straight xpacs of charge + CDs -> ramp then OF.
Is it just not worth saving for CD window over extra TCs/Ramps?
undone flower
Even in AoE, I doubt a rotation with simple rampage>BT will pop up
gaunt loom
do people not take rampage ruin at all even in high keys? feels like the aoe gain could be worth it… or is it just not that good?
night dune
Sorry meant Thunder Clap/Blast, didn't mean to confuse
gaunt loom
colo arms is also terrible in single target, but it lives off aoe damage anyway
sly merlin
timed my first 17 with fury team
undone flower
do people not take rampage ruin at all even in high keys? feels like the aoe gai...
You have to use a macro with it bc it halves rampage dmg, worth more than regular rampage only over 6 or 7 target from vague memory of someone talking about it
gaunt loom
not that great huh
undone flower
You reminded me I need to do a key with it + macro to see myself
night dune
As opposed to Improved Raging Blow and Cruelty next to it which are just more dmg overall while still linking to meat cleaver
trail plover
H
edgy widget
do people not take rampage ruin at all even in high keys? feels like the aoe gai...
most people play Thane, in which Ruin is a major bait talent unless you use a (unintended) cancel macro
If Slayer were popular in higher keys, you might see more Ruin play, as it can be good in the right key, with the right pull cadence (but it can also be v bad if those things aren't right)
olive wraith
Can someone help me wrap my head around the new MT opener? OF -> CDs + TC -> Ram...
A big portion of OF damage is from bleeds which will still benefit from your cds. Thane prio is very crowded during cds so it’s better to use OF on first global
night dune
Wait bleeds already on a target still get buffed if you pop CDs after? I didn't know that, neat
edgy widget
yes, practically everything in the modern game updates dynamically
night dune
Well that explains why I've historically sucked as Arms then
dry hawk
Is using the crafted weapon that's 285 h/m better than a ver/mas 289 if I wanted to try arms. Or would that be more a sim question
undone flower
I think dynamic dmg update is from wod but few snapshots remained lil longer
olive wraith
Does feral still snap
undone flower
I would bet it still does, it’s iconic
edgy widget
a couple things do, not all
undone flower
Bloodletting is most notorious feral snapshot no ? Is it still there
edgy widget
I believe that only Tiger's Fury and Pouncing Strikes do now
regardless, the vast majority of things in the game do not snapshot, and the ones that do explicitly mention it in their tooltips (though they don't use that term)
undone flower
general rule : only feral has snapshots
edgy widget
that's a bad way to phrase it though
olive wraith
lol ya that’s where my head went
edgy widget
because most of their things still do not snapshot
undone flower
Member mop affliction 
sage jackal
hi! How do most players who play two specializations handle it? The gear doesn’t require the same stats, so I was wondering—do you need a second warrior? For example, Fury needs crit and haste gems, while Arms needs crit and mastery gems. I assume people don’t change gems every time they respec because that would be too expensive, or do they have two sets of the same gear pieces? I’d appreciate your opinion before create a new war
edgy widget
yeah you should make a second Warrior
actually you should just have an entirely second account, so that you don't get locked out of gear for your other spec
sage jackal
i'll appreciate real answer, ty
undone flower
hi! How do most players who play two specializations handle it? The gear doesn’t...
Jewelry
Neck/ring
catalysted belt and boots are nice for arms so you can have a pair of those
red berry
hi! How do most players who play two specializations handle it? The gear doesn’t...
thats mister skyreach i think what' he's trying to say that it doesn't matter
levity. hyperbole. joke
compact knot
hi! How do most players who play two specializations handle it? The gear doesn’t...
i have two sets of gear and i do regem every time i respec
although
im not respeccing because arms is just better and fury sucks
F tier spec
frozen scarab
other than offhand and bracers is there anything else i could craft
compact knot
other than offhand and bracers is there anything else i could craft
lowest ilvl pieces
frozen scarab
rn its my feet and back
undone flower
I enchanted myself crit and crafts are haste/mastery, I just sim my gear in both and I pick, 0.1% = no diff
I hesitate to craft feet embellish and remove embellish on weapon for easier arms/fury switch, but if I just play arms on paladins…
rn I don’t plan on being arms on the last 3
zinc python
Are we sure they aren't nerfing thunderclap damage while in avatar? All the patch notes still have it reduced to 10% buff
night dune
Odd, OF is dynamic as stated but rend and Deep wounds in arms don't seem to be refreshing but ig it's less of a problem there with how much you'll reapply those anyway
edgy widget
Not sure what you mean, refreshing DoTs is an entirely different mechanic
I can promise you that both Rend and Deep Wounds are dynamic, literally every DoT in the game is
night dune
kk, might just be the tooltip then.
edgy widget
their tooltips will also update, but tooltips can only read certain information - namely buffs on you - they will not read debuffs on the target
undone flower
kk, might just be the tooltip then.
You thinking about it by reading demolish bleed hero talents ?
edgy widget
tooltips don't mean anything though, there's a combat log if you want to see what's actually happening
agile token
Stupid question.. If you play prot for keys and fury for raids. (or organized keys). Would you guys prefer to craft 1H weapon or a 2H?
sullen dove
probably 2hand cuz 1hand upgrades are free
other way around you still have to spend crests on a 2hand
signal frost
Hi, are the upcoming updates good or bad for us?
surreal frost
so it will be arms or fury next week? looks like arms got nerf ~2%?
or demolish buff makes it 0?
sullen dove
arms going up in everything fury going down in tiny bit st going up tiny more aoe
compact knot
so it will be arms or fury next week? looks like arms got nerf ~2%?
its been arms the last 2 weeks
sullen dove
arms slayer aoe might be losing a tiny bit
but chud spec compared to colo anyway
and colo turbo buffed
surreal frost
so i guess i hava to spec if i want to push further in keys -_-
sullen dove
arms has been better in keys yea
compact knot
colo gains around 5-8% st, you lose dps at 5+ targets i believe
slayer gains a lil st and you lose a bit of aoe
sullen dove
tho fury should still be servicable up to like 18s range maybe prolly bit troll to go beyond that
compact knot
in the m+ specs
signal frost
And in raid? Whats gunna be the general go to?
dense elbow
but good because they're not nerfs
Good, because it helps push a more fun gamestyle and removes infuriating RNG from BS
compact knot
And in raid? Whats gunna be the general go to?
depends on what you need but the ethical spec is arms
vague stump
a mix fury in a few arms in dragons and palas
compact knot
im playing arms on literally everything cause other specs pad better then fury does
pretty much ST on a lot of bosses
signal frost
Arms doing respectably? Guessing colossus?
vague stump
yeah but isnt thane better aoe than slayer and better single?
it s jjust colossus that omgea gaps
compact knot
yeah but isnt thane better aoe than slayer and better single?
fury thane or fury slayer isnt better ST then slayer arms
compact knot
Arms doing respectably? Guessing colossus?
colo on paladins/dragons, slayer everything else
vague stump
intresting I thought thane was very much on par with slayer arms and slayer fury was the highest single of warr specs
sullen dove
it is and probably still is
but at this point all 3 are literally within like 5k of eachother probably
vague stump
is it because of the cleve funnel with arms?
sullen dove
and arms profile usually just better
compact knot
the 2 march bosses are great examples
fury has a much better p1 on mythic l'ura but then falls off a cliff while arms scales the entire fight and will end pretty similar dps to everyone else, i doubt you see that on fury
thats also the case for beloren
sullen dove
arms is only particularly good in p3 no
dont think any insane mechs it handles earlier than that
but beloren especially yeah
fury has 0 burst
smoky vale
colo gains around 5-8% st, you lose dps at 5+ targets i believe
slayer gains a l...
i mean you only "lose" in extended fights
sullen dove
and even tho arms isnt much better you are allowed/able to prestack some pretty good buffs to give you a bit more of an edge
signal frost
So arms is probs more the logical go to? Especially with inc buffs?
smoky vale
but in keys realistically it should not be that much of a lose if even
sullen dove
walking into egg phase with 5stack CS buff from apex4 and 2 stacks of EP
compact knot
So arms is probs more the logical go to? Especially with inc buffs?
id say so yes
sullen dove
if ur gonna be doing late mythic bosses as a warrior dps and your guild lets you stay in
signal frost
Arms easy to play?
sullen dove
then arms just better
smoky vale
i think i think even though you lose 1 cleave
sullen dove
but if mid mythic or heroic raiding fury plenty fine
smoky vale
you just gain so much more by having more demolishes in aoe
signal frost
colossus is abit tricky
In what sense?
signal frost
Thats a bit aids
compact knot
the slayer arms rotation is like, ms on cd -> sd execute -> overpower -> rend if its not up or about to fall off -> slam
sullen dove
think playing around with lining up demo and cs cdr's probably most annoying thing
otherwise not too diff from slayer i think
vague stump
yeah for sure having to hold into windows is kinda meh
sullen dove
though if talkin about like st prio with m+ build then yea
cleave fluctuating a ton is annoying
vague stump
exe phase is weird asf tbh feels so bad to not actually prio execute because ur just constantly rage starved
sullen dove
wonder if there'd be any way to tell if 2tar colossus would be better to funnel beloren dmg over slayer next week
smoky vale
or do you hate me
sullen dove
idk ill do some probably
vague stump
this is the one reason I am playing fury because I cant deal with the rage
sullen dove
the little guys so irrelevant
compact knot
wonder if there'd be any way to tell if 2tar colossus would be better to funnel ...
i did mention that there might be some insane arms logs on that boss
smoky vale
i mean its not pad parsing
sullen dove
if like another demo or something would beat out slayer
compact knot
you could play the M+ funnel build
sullen dove
the birds are effectively worthless
smoky vale
if you get more demolishes off
compact knot
and it would top boss damage
sullen dove
it is pad
compact knot
if nobody else touches the egg
smoky vale
more demolish
compact knot
why wouldnt u grip both
sullen dove
dratnos vid has an egg allowed to explode to hit raid
idk cuz its more dangerous
if u let 2 eggs explode
unless u stagger and plan some cds
but like
compact knot
u just let the birds live
sullen dove
need cds for egg phase too
compact knot
and kick
smoky vale
i mean surely its easier to convince to kill 1 at a time
sullen dove
dratty t guide just had then bring 1 egg onto boss letting it rebirth
which seems fine
but 2 is probably more outlandish
just considering only 1 tho
smoky vale
i mean
sullen dove
idk if sweeping ms's for more demo beats slayer
smoky vale
it goes from making the class unplayable
to giga strong
like
every time i get 2t on a boss in keys
my dps legit shoots up by 2
while its alive
sullen dove
yea but thats mostly on a 2nd target lol
smoky vale
i mean
sullen dove
like ofc u get slightly more main target dmg
vague stump
y its because you can actually press cleve right
smoky vale
no
sullen dove
but its not like ur doing more than 10-20% on main target probably
sullen dove
if that
smoky vale
unless replacing slam
sullen dove
its pmuch just extra demolishes you get
smoky vale
yeah
smoky vale
i mean
sullen dove
unless 10% dmg buff is good
sullen dove
ig could just sim 2target now and sort of infer if st dmg goes up
"have guidon"
pepelaugh
puzzleboxing that shit
vague stump
only use of that dog trinket
smoky vale
i mean guidon bigger chance of giving you 3 demolishes
vague stump
for 1 boss
sullen dove
eroka used it good nuff for me
smoky vale
with lust
sullen dove
i dont think a 3rd demolish outweighs like 20% dmg on all your abilities
for 20 seconds
compact knot
are we talking beloren still
smoky vale
yes
sullen dove
yes
smoky vale
big yappage
sullen dove
just to be clear that im not missing something slayer gains like no form of funnel from 2t right
vague stump
y if you have puzzle and not playing it there ur initing tbh
compact knot
i sold my puzzlebox to the vendor
smoky vale
i think just rage
compact knot
i refuse to use it
sullen dove
yea sure maybe little more rage from bloodsurge would be nice
compact knot
i mean guidon bigger chance of giving you 3 demolishes
the problem with guidon during lust
sullen dove
but so ig just comparing st dmg of slayer to "half of 2target colo" next week
compact knot
is that it doesnt add many more gcds
sullen dove
when buffs go out
compact knot
my dk was using a 1.7k haste pot and was getting 4-5 gcds from it on beloren
which was like super shit
sullen dove
think purposefully not picking 100% sweep dmg to let me hit it more
smoky vale
the problem with guidon during lust
i think youd have to pot before the lust goes out
so you get crit
and then guidon
smoky vale
yeah
compact knot
the haste during lust really isnt that important
smoky vale
but guidon before pot cursed on colo
compact knot
the mastery though...
sullen dove
think guidon kinda useless in 95% of situations unless u have like an omega time crunch to do some amount of dmg in like a miniscule amount of time
compact knot
it could add a 3rd demolish
sullen dove
like 5 seconds of 3target uptime on paladins
smoky vale
and maybe 2nd demo on 2nd cs
compact knot
but you sacrifice so much mastery
you double ur mastery and dont go into diminishing returns
actually u might go into dr's
idfk
smoky vale
you def do
vague stump
what does the robot say
smoky vale
its like 1.1k mastery
vague stump
someone sim it
compact knot
what does the robot say
i can rip a 30 second sim rq with no varience
its harder to test demolish with 2 targets though
compact knot
the whole purpose of the guidon is to add a 3rd demolish
but its harder to find main target dps in a sim
smoky vale
youd have to test on the dummy
sullen dove
heres real quicky simple ish sim i did to compare 1/2 target 20s for both slayer and colo
vague stump
but would the 3rd demolish add more dps than 20s of puzzle in lust
sullen dove
it seems 2target barely changes between slayer and colo but thats this week
vague stump
idk I doubt it
sullen dove
maybe next week the cdr pushes colo further
sullen dove
yea im not doing that
compact knot
can type ptr=1
sullen dove
ill just do it on tuesday
smoky vale
yap yap
compact knot
it wont be close though
sullen dove
ok again
compact knot
the issue with both sims is im assuming they dont have pre stacks
sullen dove
we are never speaking of guidon
compact knot
as well
sullen dove
demolish is a shit button
smoky vale
yap yap man
sullen dove
you want mastery
yea no prestacks
i mean i would assume similarish buffs
or like gain for both
smoky vale
nah they are
smoky vale
i love 5m cutscene
sullen dove
idk which # of hits a base bs ends at
sullen dove
but ok in both 1t and 2t sims it only shows me as having 1 demo cast
and idk if u can like specifically sim 30s as the inbetweene 20/40 but i think 20 is better than 40
more realistic uptime with lust/pot/pbox
so if next week i get that 2nd demo off in 20 seconds simwise at least
could be bumped a lot
smoky vale
would you pbox on pull
sullen dove
either way i should be getting 2nd demo no matter what in 30
compact knot
no stack bs is 7 ticks
sullen dove
not that worth either way
compact knot
its 2 extra mortal strikes
smoky vale
man warriro sucks
compact knot
3 more ticks is like 200k damage from that, then 2 mortal strikes is like 300k damage at a minimum
sullen dove
10% more dmg for like 15s
vague stump
y unless ur playing M+ or chim or void warr is doggy do
just be happy on the bench boys
sullen dove
i mean i think i should be able to hit like 200k on egg minimum
assuming no egregious crit rng
tho tbh 200k might be the maximum
lol
compact knot
idk the arms logs on beloren arent impressive
vague stump
china taking over
sullen dove
my best on thursday was 164k but thats no puzzlebox
compact knot
considering they are also using puzzlebox
sullen dove
eroka did like 190 something k
still bottom egg
but uhhh
surely buffs help
more deep wounds 
vague stump
I mean I feel the buff is quite small no?
smoky vale
sullen dove
yea not crazy
smoky vale
thats only egg damage
sullen dove
wasnt pumps in that guild hmm wonder what happened
yea ik
only thing bear does damage on
smoky vale
who is pumps
vague stump
I would hate to see where thane would be
smoky vale
i dont see that guy on the log
sullen dove
bear guy from honestly
vague stump
below that bear for sure
compact knot
I would hate to see where thane would be
130-140k
sullen dove
yea fury is not doing shit
compact knot
its better in p1
sullen dove
your "cds" are 20% dmg and 20% crit
and like bloodbaths i guess
have fun
arms has most of that and like +50% dmg from CS
vague stump
I really dont get how slayer sims more dmg than arms slayer single but in reality it doesnt
pisses me off gimme buff man
compact knot
I really dont get how slayer sims more dmg than arms slayer single but in reali...
unholy dk sims for 130k but you dont see them doing 130k on vorasius
vague stump
arms rage makes me want to sumsmash
compact knot
except for like 3 people
sullen dove
cuz arms 100 to 0 is piss baby but arms is more able to like stack up cds in a burst window
sullen dove
cleaving unhinged 'bug'
vague stump
had skyreach yesterday and unholy dk pet pulled right side patrol up before last boss platform
smoky vale
i miss unhinged cleaving
vague stump
was omega fun
sullen dove
oml
compact knot
was unhinged cleaving the fury thing
sullen dove
u want to see thane egg dps??
compact knot
with 5 target unhinged
sullen dove
vague stump
holy dog
sullen dove
dont imagine was left alive much longer than it was for ww
smoky vale
it died with ww
sullen dove
pad on adds vro
thats what i be sayin tho like slayer gains no extra funnel for having sweep up right
so its literally whatever st slayer has or if 2t colo funnel beats it on main target
compact knot
i think what im gonna do instead
is not sweep
hold cs a extra second longer
then BS
sullen dove
baseg
compact knot
adds die right at the end of BS
sullen dove
prolly only way to look half decent on that fight
compact knot
yeah
sullen dove
whats a munched bs cast tbh
not like ur close to pushing hard p3 enrage anymore surely
compact knot
the set we should be best on btw
smoky vale
i mean whats the other gcd
compact knot
sullen dove
slam good
compact knot
this is my dps on the 2nd set of crystals
which is our best set
because nobody else has cds except dev dh's
sullen dove
p3 moment
compact knot
its up sometimes and not up other times
smoky vale
sullen dove
unless its buggy in how it works sometimse i think thats just like how the fight works
smoky vale
holy p3 damage
compact knot
im not sure why
compact knot
i looked at pulls at the same time frame
sullen dove
unless u mean like certain abilities dont count well
compact knot
some mortal strikes crit for 800k and others crit for 400k
sullen dove
idk would it record your individual hits as double dmg i wouldnt think so
feel like you hit 1 mob with mortal strike for 400k > 2nd mob also takes 400k
do u maybe see a diff between casts and hits
compact knot
it hits the mob you are targetting for 800k
but then other times it only hits it for 400k
sullen dove
1 cast resulted in 800k but 2 hits for 400k each
compact knot
im not entirely sure why
sullen dove
wack
unlucky stat proc ruining reck pot
surely
there are also like 15 diff ms buffs
could just be like perfect stars align for a big one
vocal thorn
you got this tomorrow
Yes
sullen dove
double sd 2 EP, 5stack CS + 15% from slams/op talent etc
sullen dove
unless boss is in execute which it isnt during lust and probably will never be prolly nah
if dk is still an op lust target
at least dk was highest in p3 there overall but maybe another class just does more during lust/cds and falls off after like monk/ele/hunter or something
vocal thorn
lowkey is it ever an ask for pi
he is on the other side
compact knot
LMFAO
smoky vale
i thought mm was broken?
compact knot
yes ik
sullen dove
they have to finish their cast to start the split
unless buff applying doesnt happen insta
in which case weird
sullen dove
did it die
compact knot
they die same time right
sullen dove
should
i think idk
my interpretation is the moment they split your damage is now doubled until the phase is over
i feel like if anything else was the reality we would have heard alot more about it from liquid/echo
if they ever thought they werent getting all the dmg they should
psure they wouldve made some noise
unless new hotfixes bugged it
compact knot
its different each time
this pull it has them get it at the same time
and they both get rid of it at the same time
sullen dove
do they get rid of it before they die/phase over?
compact knot
but for some reason
1 pull im looking at one of them loses it early
checking replay rq
sullen dove
can it be some thing of 1 person on 1 side is logging and cant see everything happening on the otherside
ik shit like that could happen on raszageth
when ur like 200 yd away from other ppl
this floor not that big tho i think
sullen dove
any linkge
compact knot
wait im so lost
compact knot
im looking at pull 17 on their friday pulls
that one is weirdly inconsistent with debuff uptime
sullen dove
what just this
compact knot
the 2 mobs in p3
are the moon and the weird looking void guy
in swordish picture exclude the bottom 1
the right side (wes side) lost their buff early
what time does it lose it can you check
sullen dove
idk the table view looks weird but event view looks correct
compact knot
yeah that looks more normal
sullen dove
also not sure why theres a 3rd l'ura in p3 but prolly just some background shit
smoky vale
probably
i feel like
they probably have it coded
so whatever is done to both of them
is directed towards another body
and then displayed on the 2 you are fighting
vocal thorn
also why do you guys have a bm hunter
does more boss dmg in p2/p3
smoky vale
instead of directly hitting the "other" body
sullen dove
i dont see a single one of his hits at least on this pull 17 where ms goes over 400k
800k has to be some weird thing ur lookin at or it is the case of 2x400k hits = 1 800k cast
21% MS crit in this pull tho yikes
compact knot
he defo had a 800k on their lowest pull
compact knot
lowest one tonight
sullen dove
u get like 200% dmg buff in p4
compact knot
not on friday