fury

[chrome relic]

I’m just feely crafting

[alpine palm]

A small optimization to your opener from Sarri's APL is to always enrage before Odyn's

On that note, I think I understand the necessity of pruning the APL to make it more easily replicable by humans, but also...like at least for the very sweaty types, Sarri's APL I think is manageable. Is there any value in providing both the trimmed down and more optimized APLs?

[smoky vale]

why would enraging before odyns make a difference

if odyns enrages you

[alpine palm]

Fair point, I don't have a good answer for you.

I do know that Sarri's APL sims ~6.5% higher than what Raidbots uses

[smoky vale]

where did you see this opener

i think thats because sarri's apl has random hp conditionals

or buff conditionals

[pastel bronze]

does the loa work inside m+/raid?

[random shadow]

Dont think it does

[alpine palm]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vTxbz0VzPWK0j2_1mNqcOGX0Lgrnha3kM6wvCgossscI08I_Hk-v1_D2crjD7h6Wo-FCrnJUn4W2CWU/pubhtml?gid=1484407191&single=true

Then just followed the links on the right to the APL

[coarse nest]

Didn’t arch say that the apl on raidbots right now is half cooked?

[pastel bronze]

i've seen it proc during heroic dungeons weirdly, but i would be surprised if it makes it into season content

[alpine palm]

Yee

[pastel bronze]

you mean half baked?

[alpine palm]

lol?

[coarse nest]

[pastel bronze]

sorry, im not with the times, its "APL slop"

am i doing it right?

[smoky vale]

are you sure you're not just misinterpreting the first line of the apl

because its saying to of if you arent enraged

[coarse nest]

It’s also true that silms is for the more advanced I believe arch mentioned pruning the public release

[smoky vale]

not enrage before of

[pastel bronze]

does OF work like rampage where you're granted enrage before the damage is applied?

[smoky vale]

yes

[alpine palm]

Yep, entirely just me being goofy. I missed the exclamation mark

[cold sparrow]

Ok, but ramp prior ?

[pastel bronze]

is there a reason the opener for thane fury on wowhead dumps both charges of thunderblast and bloodthirst? when i pop reck/avatar after charge i'm almost immediately at > 100 rage

[coarse nest]

Yes, for the damages

[pastel bronze]

my opener that i derived was to charge -> clap to get IW, then reck which puts me on over 100 rage rampage -> clap -> rampage -> bt -> clap rampage

[coarse nest]

In aoe you prioritize some aoe buttons as long as you are enraged

Well, during CDs anyway

[pastel bronze]

i know i'm wrong, i just want to know why as the opener seems opposed to

[coarse nest]

if enrage is not active

Key part of that line

[pastel bronze]

or over 100 rage

which popping reck after charge instantly puts me at over 100 rage

[coarse nest]

Better to spend charges than not overcap rage probably for the opener specifically

[sudden tusk]

basically youll charge in/pop your shit. Odyns to cap rage. Rampage./Tblat/ Rampage/Tblast depending on rage maybe rampage again maybe Bloodbath

Spending Tblast chages extends the duration of the avatar buff

as well as does good damage

[pastel bronze]

yeah that aligns closer to what i do, but thats not whats on wowhead

[coarse nest]

Not munching any potential TB procs is big prio

That’s your damage

[sudden tusk]

Thats the exact prio i just mentioned tho

[pastel bronze]

for reference, those three buttons after OF would be me at 130 rage

[sudden tusk]

huh

[undone flower]

Yes there is a missmatch rotation / what the opener says

[pastel bronze]

from https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/warrior/fury/rotation-cooldowns-pve-dps#rotations-opener

[sudden tusk]

That might be the pure AoE priority you are lookin at

[pastel bronze]

so wowhead's just not correct

[sudden tusk]

That makes sense for AoE not for ST

[undone flower]

Or with rotation / apl

[pastel bronze]

im talking aoe

[sudden tusk]

Yeah that makes sense for aoe

[pastel bronze]

both screenshots are the multii-target prio and the multi-target opener, but they disagree with eachother

[undone flower]

The wowhead rotation in AoE don’t have the clap on cd part of our actual rotation

[sudden tusk]

in mass for Rampage is capped at 5 targets. Tblast is uncapped and Bloodbath buffs your bleed damage from Odyns

[pastel bronze]

ok, so the prio for wowhead is wrong?

im guessing it doesn't have a sliding scale for # targets

where clap takes higher prio over rampage at some point

[sudden tusk]

no it just assumes M+ big pulls Vs Single Target

[pastel bronze]

this is the multi-target prio from wowhead, according to this rampage > tblast at over 100 rage

[sudden tusk]

Yes

[pastel bronze]

but the opener would have me dump tblasts at over 100 rage

[sudden tusk]

Theres a differance between general rotation and Opener

opener assumes all CDs

gerneral rotation is for everything else

[pastel bronze]

just trying to understand why

so, when we have pot + reck + avatar then tblast is a higher prio then rampage?

[sudden tusk]

In mass aoe yes

[pastel bronze]

i mean, you could understand my confusion

[sudden tusk]

i see what you mean im not disputing that

[undone flower]

Yes I understand your confusion, you are not the first to ask that, today

[pastel bronze]

yeah, do we know at what target count that shifts?

[sudden tusk]

8 i think is the standard

[rare garnet]

Oh gods we’re back to the opener dilemma. Time to hard code the opener and solve with math.

[pastel bronze]

8, sweet, also why bloodthirst over rampage?

[sudden tusk]

but its hard to write guides for a general becuase the actual variance in situations is to high to account for without confusing a new to mid level player

[pastel bronze]

(in the opener)

yep fair

[sudden tusk]

Applies the Bloodbourne buff which buffs Odyns bleed/ Can give you another Tblast charge which is why you use Tblast first so you dont overcap on charges

[pastel bronze]

no i totally get it, wowhead used to have a sliding scale for # targets i recall

[sudden tusk]

as well as can reup your enrage

[pastel bronze]

yep that makes sense

basically fishing for as many tblasts as possible

[sudden tusk]

yeah

more tblasts means more lightning strikes which means more burst of power procs which leads to more tblasts ect ect

[pastel bronze]

so on +8 targets, we're just trying to pump out as many tblasts as possible, so tblast > bloodthirst then rampage if we exhaust

[sudden tusk]

Tclap also does almost as much damage as Tblast without the added lightning strike effects so its omega priority in aoe

[pastel bronze]

i really feel like they should add a mass aoe priority to wowhead, is there somewhere formal this exists?

its not an uncommon scenario for m+

[sudden tusk]

aoe would prob be Tblast>Rampage>Tclap>Bt in general play

outside of the opener

once again its probably an issue of if you add too many factors/ options it leaves you more confused then learning the baseline

[pastel bronze]

that aligns almost with what they have written down, i get it though, because of the target cap, its a sliding scale from 5->8+ in where non-targeted cap spells outscale rampage .etc

[sudden tusk]

the per target count optimizations you are interested in are more of a ask in here/ do research kind of thing compared to a public guide

[echo rapids]

Thus the complexity of thane vs slayer

[sudden tusk]

id go under the assumption of 5tar=rampage anything higher you use aoe rules

[pastel bronze]

idk, i feel like the info should be somewhere, just not up-front, like a "advanced optimizations" section

[junior gale]

Madox come be a fury warrior in a m0 with 2 arms warriors

[sudden tusk]

my char is saved for guild activities

[pastel bronze]

i also save my body for guild activities

[sudden tusk]

Main issue is how neice you can actually get

[undone flower]

And every classes will want that

[sudden tusk]

like for example if its over 5 targets. but 4 of those targets are minions/ not real mobs do you aoe prio or ST prio

and wowhead tries to standardize each guide section

turns into amount of effort vs actual value provided.

so after you see the guide you bug a guy like me that likes talking about warrior becuase im a goober

and then i go idk man i hit the tclap button im an idiot i think thats the right move

then ill ask Silm of Fishy more difinitivly as they are smart sim people and can give me better answers

but their sim guidelines were around 5 and 8 targets respectivly. so id assume around that for 5 target you go with single target prio becuase of how our cleave mechanics work

and 8 targets aoe prio

in beteween? 🔮

[pastel bronze]

idk, the arms guide includes rend as a fallback cast which is like a 0.6% optimization, i feel like the tclap prio change is more then a 0.6% optimization and might be worth, i recall when looking at other classes it wasn't uncommon to see like a 3 target section and a 8 target section

it really depends how significant the difference is i guess

[sudden tusk]

So does fury slayer

[pastel bronze]

it doesn't seem like a huge deal, outside of the wowhead opener contradicting the prio

it is what it is

[undone flower]

It made me remember I had the autistic rush to sim what sequence of spells to do on soulbinder canisters adds (they lasted 3 seconds) to pad

[sudden tusk]

Well openers at least always used to be unique priorities which over time has become less true

But the fun part

[pastel bronze]

the problem is this line in wowhead

and then it goes on to be a completely different prio

[sudden tusk]

Is there could change all of our prio in a single patch

[static loom]

Wowhead is assuming M+ style pulls, rather than high key / long duration / prio target AoE situations

[pastel bronze]

yeah expecting raging blow buffs and then everything changes

[smoky vale]

hi warriorsarri

🙂

[static loom]

Meaning burst AoE is prioritized in the opener, over sustained long term dps

👋

[smoky vale]

how many characters did you make

[static loom]

8

[smoky vale]

gg

[static loom]

Only 5 warrs tho

[smoky vale]

what are others

dh dk

[sudden tusk]

Warriorsmarti

[static loom]

Ele, Hunt, Pala

[pastel bronze]

yeah, i get it, lots of learning for a noob like me, but i guess because its so confusing it did lead me to learn the correct pri

[smoky vale]

i was so off lol

[pastel bronze]

idk what they did to ret paladin but it feels awful atm 🙁

[static loom]

They got a swing timer, so they don't get to complain

[winter shoal]

Ret was kinda blasting in the m0s I did yesterday

Gonna get nerfed for daring to be good on irrelevant padding like us

Only dk allowed to be strong

[pastel bronze]

all you need is one easy fight in the first raid tier where you top dps for generational consequences

[winter shoal]

Tbf nerubar was 2.5 fights

2 + 2(0.5) if you count first two bosses

But OF has been paying for those sins ever since

[undone flower]

I did my mm0s with 2 ret and 1 udk, so idk if they were blasting tbf

It was kinda mid I would say when we were on bosses

[pastel bronze]

ret damage might be fine but god does it feel awful to play

[left leaf]

I've started playing fury after finishing campaign with Papa and oh boy

Pala feel so bad compared to fury

[pastel bronze]

yep

[left leaf]

Like it is fraction of fury dps

[pastel bronze]

again, dps doesn't matter to me, but holy shit, if i need a way to fall asleep, ret gameplay might be the path

[left leaf]

I loose more hp as pala than I do as fury and I can even pull more mobs as fury

Pala is on 1 min rotation

Which is kinda of a problem to me

Fury is much more reactive

I Mean I chose pala mainly for tanking and maybe healing

But warrior feels so great

[scenic cliff]

Did you (or anyone here) ever find out how to fix this or if it's still persisting?

It happened to me when I was doing m0s and I was so confused I was in melee range using my abilities but they were highlighted red

[marble pilot]

I havnt. Still happens to me sometimes. Most recently my Tblast/tclap button wont update to tblast icon. Though it still casts it

[scenic cliff]

👍🏻

[undone flower]

Idk lot of ret stuff, the two in my group played a diff build with 30 sec or 1 min cd (idk what it means) but they talked about it while i was in tank jail

[dusk knot]

On single target slayer is it recommended to add rend to tracked bars so i dont let it go out ?

[marble pilot]

Last I saw its just filler above ww I think. Sims have like 60%uptime

And its only like 1-2% worse to ignore it fully

[dusk knot]

okay thanks

[olive wraith]

Rend is also above rb

If you need to refresh bleed

[trim moon]

Trying out Slayer vs Thane on single target - Either I am doing something terribly wrong or Mountain Thane is beating the absolute shit out of my slayer build. - Slayer and Thane build copied from wowhead but taking berserker shout talent over wrecking throw - 29k slayer sustained vs 52k sustained Thane - Both prepot

I am ABSOLUTELY fine Being a dwarven thunder lord but according to wowhead - slayer should be toppling thane in ST

[marble pilot]

Well what St are you doing right now? Its just random rares and m0s right

Or are you just beating on a dummy

[trim moon]

no sir. just training dummy shenanigans - Thane is what I am running M0s with so I gave it a shot.

[marble pilot]

I dunno then. Could be stat related things. Like Thane doing fine with less haste. But once you have enough then slayer pulls ahead in pure st

[trim moon]

You are more than likely correct - my haste is 15%

[undone flower]

Stats don’t make one hero talent do 80% more dmg than the other

[marble pilot]

Fair. I didnt really look at the numbers. A 20kish gap is probably something rotationally wrong

[undone flower]

Probably rusty on slayer, tbf I didn’t play slayer yet myself

[marble pilot]

Slayer probably slightly harder to get used to this time. With RB being so low on prio list

[trim moon]

Ok so WW over RB will be tried 🙂

[hot shell]

What itemlevel are we talking about

[trim moon]

I am 240 atm

[hot shell]

That does sound like something is broken in your slayer build. What do your sims say ?

[outer umbra]

anyone recommend a good scrolling battle text

[hot shell]

Its also possible that dummies themselves are broken. You should easily get 50k slayer st even on 15% haste

[trim moon]

I think it has something to do with the Erratic trinket - ST MT is 41k - ST Slayer is 42k

[strong tusk]

30s rn

[hot shell]

One trinket shouldnt be able to pull off 12k of your sim, much less 25k difference to your other specc

What i can think of is that armor values on dummies are broken

Do you happen to have damage details of your trys ?

[trim moon]

I can redo and screenshot

[hot shell]

If you have time jump into a heroic and compare bossdmg there. Always better than a dummy imo.
29k is far too less for 240 itemlevel, even arms does more

[trim moon]

29.1k on that run lol

I don't understand

swapping to thane

[strong tusk]

in m+ as mountain can u remove whirlwind from bars?

[hot shell]

Yes

[strong tusk]

what about rend

[hot shell]

Also yes. Thunderclap applies rend and ww buff

[strong tusk]

tyty

[trim moon]

I was referring to that Erattic trinket not simming at all at raidbots - actually puts a 200 ilvl trinket above it.

[rare garnet]

where do we farm the remaining vet crests from? delves?

[vernal jackal]

So how big a loss is playing slayer instead of MT in M+ right now?

I massively prefer slayer playstyle

[rare garnet]

its pre season and nothing matters play what you enjoy

[tepid lily]

which one of these

crit haste / vers mastery

[rare garnet]

i like haste personally for vibes

[hasty grail]

Is there a good resource for learning fury rotation? Doesn’t seem like much has been updated yet

[tepid lily]

Bloodthirst > everything

Aoe, BT or Thunder Blast or spam Rampage*

[hasty grail]

Is it optimal to not over cap?

[tepid lily]

BT when enemies are below 35% hp

[hasty grail]

And can’t figure out when it makes sense to execute

[tepid lily]

I like to press execute when in recklessness

to spam more rampage

[hasty grail]

Is rampage higher priority then BT?

[tepid lily]

fury is all over the place when it comes to what's more optimized to press each pull

[hasty grail]

Ah

[tepid lily]

you always want to press rampage because of anger management

[trim moon]

@hot shell Dummies may be busted - Just beat a demo lock in terrace at 50.6k

[tepid lily]

I'm even about to say, press anything that gives a lot of dmg

bruh whoever designed this in midnight instead of trying it out in TWW first

[hasty grail]

Fair enough lol

[hot shell]

Yeah thats what i wouldve guessed. Nature damage wouldve carried you thru the armor

So yeah you do nothing wrong, dummies just busted. Damage is about the same

[trim moon]

that made me feel good - went slayer for the last boss

[hot shell]

Right? Slayer just feels good

[young swan]

feel like this is just better than tww tbh

[glad coyote]

yall crafting any lower gear this week?

[young swan]

nope, should be holding for the 17th to craft a mythic 2h insta

err for spark anyway

regular crafted is just replaced by m0 anyways

[glad coyote]

last xpac there was a pvp weapon you could craft

[undone flower]

Do delves give enough myth crests ?

[quartz matrix]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aLTJ5gWg5V3TjYrh9PcUwm
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9dWfKYQDMTpMPpBAiN3pfc

Thats not fucking fair

[modest condor]

skill issue

just make your skills do more damage

[bitter palm]

looks fair to me

[midnight kite]

Sorry bro cant do balance till heroic week they need more data

then they do balance again on mythic week before tier set data comes in then lock in till WFR is over 👍

[dense elbow]

Well, they do need more data for real. Cause I am topping meters as Fury Warrior and BDK, and that aint a dataset I want anything based on

Arms being top DPS tho, that should mean a nerf tho

[rare garnet]

hits seems lore accurate, start as a warrior, die, become a dk, gain power, whats wrong?

so. many. hunts.

[midnight kite]

Its partially joking but I think like hey if a spec is clearly underperforming they could throw it like a pity 3% buff for prepatchseason

[undone flower]

No

[quartz matrix]

did you just repeat the hard mode hunt like 10 times?

[rare garnet]

yeah, random hard hunts

[river willow]

Where does tclap during avatar fall in the aoe prio, I dont see mention of it under MT aoe prio on wowhead

[quartz matrix]

Basically if its off cd, press it

[graceful moat]

Any addon with good shout reminders?

[river willow]

Even if say bloodbath is up we prioritize an avatar juiced tclap?

In aoe

[tiny nebula]

3 or more targets for sure, 3 or less is debatable I think?

[tepid lily]

It was bcs in TWW it really depends of how the tier pieces makes up the rotation

dragonflight too

compared to midnight, where we don't have any tier set where it depends on what rotation we use but how it is used

idk i'm confused

loooooool

[tawdry mica]

Is fury updated in the sims? I'm like 20k dps beneath my alt while only being 2 ilvl lower

[young swan]

well the apl isnt updated for prime midnight stuff but whats your alt

[tawdry mica]

demo lock

I'm at 36k, he's at 55k, he's 225, I'm 223

[undone flower]

We don’t need to talk about TWW S1 and S2 tier sets

[echo rapids]

Demo lock has busted ST

[young swan]

yeah thats one of the most broken specs in the game

[tawdry mica]

damn lol

[compact knot]

my spriest isnt getting invited to any m0s

[river willow]

I got kinda spanked by a mm on probably half the pulls in my m0 tour

Probably a skill issue

[slim coral]

well that's your fault bud

priest sucks

[placid crane]

coming back to fury after a break, noticed we have rend, is it ever used in multi target? I noticed in the rotation on WoWHead I didnt see it being used

oh nevermind, just noticed its applied with TC

[earnest canyon]

Whats ur top 5 dps rn Bazed Baze?

[slim coral]

you mean by class?

[young swan]

yeah if u play slayer you press it in aoe

[earnest canyon]

spec

[slim coral]

Devourer DH Annihilator
Devourer DH Void-Scarred
Unholy Dk
Aug/Deva Evoker
Frost Mage

[earnest canyon]

interesting.....
Id have only UHDK there...
then
Arcane
Demo
Fire
Fury warr

[rare garnet]

Mm also has big burst opener yeah and pulls die fast AF, I think? Maybe I’m wrong

[modest condor]

you like devourer? ive only heard bad things about it so far

[rare garnet]

-reacted with

[earnest canyon]

yes it has insane burst, but shit ST, long cd compared to other hunter specs, 8 target cap in aoe

[slim coral]

it's really fun

[earnest canyon]

i still dont know what i want to play. Was gonna go hunter full xpac this time around but bm is so bad, and mm isnt much better

[slim coral]

esp if you like min max a breath type mechanic

[rare garnet]

A subculture of devo players have emerged and they fucking love the spec. Every one of them I talk to thinks it plays smooth and well. Everyone else I talk to hates it and says it’s braindead.

[queen panther]

Are people really using cancel aura macros for TB and just using TC?

[hot shell]

There will probably be quite some tuning before raid opens up, so just pick the kind of gameplay you like

[median falcon]

ok, what is looking like best m plus spec for dps warrior?

[hot shell]

MT Fury

[olive wraith]

You shouldn’t be

[haughty zephyr]

None unholy dk

[undone flower]

My name is bc I liked the first version of our apex talent

[summer quail]

you think? it's so predictable tho... there's no procs or anything

[random shadow]

what yall doing for the rest of vet crests?

[slim coral]

yeah cause you gotta see how many stars you can fit in a window

[echo rapids]

Gotta be honest, I’m not really focusing on that. Gonna be all replaced with champ and heroic real fast

[compact knot]

only way to get vet is thru m0s rn

and a quest next to the upgrade npc that only gives 10 1 time

so max is 90

[stoic kindle]

you get veterans from hard mode preys

and you can farm those

[mental nexus]

Maybe im just bad, but our token MM Sims almost 15k higher than I do as fury.

[fading sky]

0 stars are huge???? Windows are small

[fading sky]

Nono thata how it is

[mental nexus]

And thats considered a bad dps??

[earnest canyon]

the packs arent spaced ideally to go into the 2 min trueshot cd perfectly

[mental nexus]

Oh shit okay I gotchu

[pulsar mirage]

Ah fuck, we that bad we are now running as a hunter disc now?

[modest condor]

imagine showing this message with no context to someone who doesnt play wow

[fading sky]

Nor are they for any other cds

[slim coral]

Windows are as big as you make them

[fading sky]

69000km though

[ionic hamlet]

i saw some peoples sims, and screenshots of their damage break down. Why does my rampage damage seem so high? I could be wrong, but I thought I saw other people with much higher damage from Reap the Storm and Bladestorm

[native island]

Hey! Is Thane still better than Slayer for dungeons?

[summer quail]

yes

[odd crater]

I refuse to run Thane simply because I started Slayer and so I shall remain

[iron portal]

Based

[hot shell]

Good slayers will deal more dmg than bad thanes

[fading sky]

No content where it matters

[native island]

Cool! I really like the thane playstyle so this is nice. Thank you.

[compact knot]

idk this only seems true if you consistently hit a mob and dont switch

oh you said good slayers vs bad thanes

hydrogen baby vs coughing ant ahh comparison

[hot shell]

One button rotation vs real player i guess

[compact knot]

i mean thats true for 90% of specs

[hot shell]

So you agree with me, great

[compact knot]

yeah i missed the good player vs bad player part

[keen moon]

How often do you press rampage back to back?
Was looking to the rotation guide and surprised that rampage isn’t higher in the prio

[hot shell]

I mean.. its also a matter of liking it. If you like slayer more youll spend more time mastering it, dealing more dmg than half assing thane

[random shadow]

Almost never

[eternal sundial]

Put your effort into the better hero talent

[random shadow]

Unless I dont have a button to press id dou le but eh

[devout apex]

anyone know why my cd manager position keeps resetting like this?

[limpid tide]

check ur addons u might have 2 cd managers fighting each other

[devout apex]

doesnt seem like i dont think

i have bettercdm

betterbars

and sensei

[wild glade]

What addon is this?

^ nevermind

[cold sparrow]

When playing slayer, is rend still relevant?

[compact knot]

even more relevant then thane

because you actually have to go out of your way to push the rend button itself

[indigo arch]

Hopefully by s2 rotational rend dies

Kinda wack

[mental nexus]

On my Sims in ST, its about 3% of your dps.

Obvs gonna be more in a multitarget environment

[compact knot]

agreed

[edgy widget]

keep in mind that 3% is not including opportunity cost, so it's actually a little less

in practice, using Rend > RB is worth ~1% or less ST

[compact knot]

its never in the history of wow ever been a rotational button except for 1 small niche scenario

[edgy widget]

it's much more worth in multitarget though

[compact knot]

randomly they are trying to force it xdd

[indigo arch]

Considering how sameish slayer and thane is now, they may as well bake rend into ww

[compact knot]

"lets remove thunderous roar (a button you pushed every 90 seconds) and add a button you need to push every 12 seconds instead that does the exact same thing as troar"

way to get rid of button bloat

morons

[indigo arch]

At least they made frenzy not cringe anymore about target swaps

[hollow leaf]

found something funny

spam thunderclap without having it learned

oh nevermind it stopped working when I tpd

it was spamming the start of the clap animation

[fiery edge]

https://tenor.com/view/monster-versus-vs-alien-strange-mob-gif-12413747667150461911

[fiery edge]

clapping cheeks or beyblades?

[native island]

Cheeks allday errday

[deft scroll]

Hey!
Sorry if this has already been asked a lot, but where does Fury Warrior currently stand for raid right now?

I feel like we're kind of middle of the pack, but when I run sims and compare them with most of my teammates it sometimes looks like our DPS is actually pretty low.

However, when I'm actually doing content, I don't really feel like I'm performing worse than the others despite what the sims suggest.

I know a balance pass is coming soon, but I'm starting to worry a bit about Fury's raid viability.

[chrome plover]

I think fury is fine, very middle of the pack and if the top few specs are brought down a peg with the balance patch and fury isnt touched we'll be in a pretty good spot

also arms is not doing too hot... and tanks are looking like brew/guardian > blood so ur fury raid spot for battle shout looks pretty safe

again pending changes with the balance patch obviously

[fiery edge]

A tier soon

[deft scroll]

Yeah that was my first impression too.
Thanks for the reply, that's reassuring!

[fiery edge]

i mean Aaaaah tier

[chrome plover]

Anything could happen on the 17th don’t feel too reassured

[undone flower]

The only funny thing I found, I pressed thunderclap just right when enemies died and targeted a mob far away, it put rend around my target

[white relic]

my goal as fury when i press reckless is not spend as much rage on rampage to get to max stacks of berserker right? my goal is still to even those stacks out and that only press rampage when above 100 rage or enrange is about to fall off?

[formal geode]

In the interest of being a sweaty min-maxer, anyone have a list of how the different races stack up or is it a case of just manually sim everything?

[tawdry sigil]

eratic

[pale lava]

https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/how-to-sim-your-wow-character-a-guide-to-raidbots

scroll down to 10.1. How To Sim Racial Bonuses in Raidbots

it has a guide + a sim string, you can sim your character on all races

[formal geode]

oh sweet ty

horrors beyond my comprehension earthen are top for me, maybe i dont minmax actually

[warm crag]

weird, should be pandaren to my knowledge

either way if youre not in rwf you should not be picking racials around performance just click what looks coolest

[pale lava]

the difference is very minimal iirc, how much was it for you in %?

[hollow quiver]

what talent could I get rid of in the multi target build to get enraged regen? I'm really not comfortable going in Mythic raid without it

[fiery tide]

warpaint most likely

[fossil orbit]

Warpaint is better overall tho

[hollow quiver]

I'm already suffering in M0 without it though

[fiery tide]

its still (that I can think of) the only point you can drop without losing dmg

[hollow quiver]

warpaint isn't good for specified moments of damage

[fossil orbit]

True

[hollow quiver]

which often occur on mythic bosses

[fossil orbit]

How much loss is acually Meat Cleaver? On a raid boss that is

[smoky turret]

just die until enrage regen gets moved

[hollow quiver]

yeah I don't think my rl can hear that

[smoky turret]

i dont think we take meat cleaver on slayer

st that is

[solemn plover]

@warm crag how is the state of fury warrior in current patch

[fading sky]

i mean

how can u suffer in m0

nothing hurts ?_D

[formal geode]

1.4%

[pale lava]

oof, I was expecting the value to be a lot smaller

[formal geode]

compared to belf

i know its low precision for some of the sims but it puts dracthyr in the middle of the pack for me and thats still a 0.3% increase

[fading sky]

i mean Dstance + SR

[pale lava]

0.3% is a value I wouldn't care

[fading sky]

will deffo save u 100%

[pale lava]

but 1.4% can be slightly noticeable

[formal geode]

yea meme numbers atm because of squish but its like 700dps

[fading sky]

% is %

1.4% is a lot

keep in mind it changes with tgear

Mecha is a good choice though every season 1

[rotund fiber]

how are u guys check AP buff? use wa or i can do it on default blizz interface?

[warm crag]

Meta spec #1

[solemn plover]

Interesting

[median cypress]

Pandaren doesnt seem to work properly on the sim, but Ive seen it said that its supposed to be #1

[rare garnet]

Action bars > CDM

[rare garnet]

Flesh is weak.

[fading sky]

I r voidy elf

I will say fire + mecha was a nice touch

[wicked eagle]

What alts do you guys play? Is there any spec similar ish in feel to fury? Capped out activities for week and nothing to do😬

[spare steppe]

I’ve been playing affliction as my alt. Doesn’t really feel Ike fury but it’s been enjoyable

[fading sky]

UH DK

[reef viper]

what a coincidence, im playing affliction aswel, really enjoyable to play a caster on the side because fury you know, APM and stuff

[fading sky]

feels Fucking great compared to

[wicked eagle]

Tried sub rogue but it’s dire

[storm lagoon]

UH dk and Fury my two go to

[cold sparrow]

War arm 🫡

[rare garnet]

I’m a big DK, War, Hunter fan. Anything more complex hurts my little head. Ret too I guess. Casters are gross and combo points are dumb.

[spare steppe]

Warlock is the only caster I like to play, can’t explain it

[wicked eagle]

Dk looks the goer then

[molten wing]

Ret/Havoc/WW Monk

is what i am doing

[undone flower]

I can’t bother with havoc inertia in raid

[sullen tendon]

Ngl this is the deadest I’ve ever seen an expansion on launch. Aside from early access I see basically no one In the open world or in silvermoon and there’s max like 5 people online in my guild of normally around 30 active players.

[iron portal]

Wow ded? @modest condor

[sullen tendon]

It was really fully of people in early access and then the expansion released and I’ve seen way less

Maybe they just fucked up sharding extremely

[tough minnow]

idk where u are looking but im seeing tons of people. Even as queing as DPS its only taking 5 mins for heroic runs

[sullen tendon]

I qued as dps for a heroic on Wednesday and i sat in Que for 20 minutes then switched to tank spec and got insta Que

[light tapir]

My guilds got like 15 people on at all times of day since early access and still going. Seeing plenty of people in game in general as well

[sullen tendon]

I’m probably just getting on bad shards consistently

When I do /who I see lots of people in the zones but I don’t actually see anyone anywhere

[tough minnow]

I'm hoping fury gets a little buff though 😄

[sullen tendon]

They need to address the fury defensive issue l

[tough minnow]

What defensive issue?

[undone flower]

Which is ?

[sullen tendon]

We don’t take er

[undone flower]

Sometime I question if you are ironically doing that bobby

[rare garnet]

Can’t relate we had like 30 people online last night and it’s been the most active in discord and voice chat since the last launch or raid night.

[sullen tendon]

We have like 0 defensive cooldowns

Spell reflect is our only active one

[rare garnet]

Let’s ignore dstance more

[sullen tendon]

Does it mean we will get insta killed? No. But every other spec has atleast a few defensive cooldowns

[undone flower]

He is already ignoring spell reflect being on of the strongest defensive in the game

[rare garnet]

Fair

[sullen tendon]

We have a lot passive damage reduction and healing

[sullen tendon]

Spell reflect isn’t enough

I’d like some actual buttons to press

[undone flower]

Spell reflect is 25 sec cd

[sullen tendon]

Ok so what do we do in a knights situation in priory

Turn on d stance and hope we have enough dr

[rare garnet]

XD

[undone flower]

If you have issue as warrior on those knights, your entire party was dead on the previous 5 divine tolls

[smoky basin]

They nerfed everyone's defensives, we made it through pretty unscathed

[sullen tendon]

Paladin chain pulls

Sitting in d stance and used sr already

What do we do

[rare garnet]

Let me ask this for a baseline. What class do you consider as having an appropriate defensive toolkit?

[smoky basin]

If you as a fury are dying to something like that I feel like the rest of your party would have died multiple globals ago

Unless dk

[undone flower]

Yeah dk special

[sullen tendon]

Every other spec has some decent active defensive cooldown or multiple and some passive that saves them

Or straight up immunities

[bleak saffron]

if u want more active spec ER, then u have that and spell reflect and then dstance if u need more?

[undone flower]

But just SR, dstance and brown = you are big on defence

[rare garnet]

What class do you like the defensives of as your man every class should be like this? It’s not warrior. What’s the standard of excellence for you?

[sullen tendon]

I think they should remove armored to the teeth and just give us another defensive cooldown

[undone flower]

The decent active cooldowns of other classes usually having 1min30 cd for 10% more DR than spell reflect

[bleak saffron]

so we have the option of having 3 defensive cd's, rallying and dstance? that dosent sound like a lot to you?

[rare garnet]

Not to mention we’re passively tanky then have a huge no cooldown defensives stance. I’m confused by “no button” when we literally always have a button.

[sullen tendon]

Rally is barely a defensive at this point lol

[bleak saffron]

yeah there is that :)

[bleak saffron]

okay ignore rally then, 3 defensive cd's and dstance sound balanced to you, from a defensive pov?

[undone flower]

And. ER still exist…

[bleak saffron]

are you a dk player perchance?

[rare garnet]

I’m guessing a mage that somehow thinks they’re defensive still

[sullen tendon]

What is the third cd?

[rare garnet]

But they won’t answer why a good class is

So who knows

[undone flower]

If your fight is such a hell that you as warrior are worry about def cd, take the dmg loss to take ER bobby

[rare garnet]

I’m curious what specific class they’re comparing Warrior to as bad

[bleak saffron]

u wanted a new one, we got spell reflect and you can spec enraged regen. For what it is worth you could take enraged regen AND warpaint if u feel so squishy

[sullen tendon]

We need defensive so we don’t have to rely on healers in mythic+ when they don’t heal enough and blame dps for not using defensive.

[rare garnet]

Don’t… heal… enough??

[bleak saffron]

HUH

[undone flower]

You need to rely on healers always

[smoky basin]

You should always take a healer to m+

[undone flower]

Unless you are doing a 15 necrotic wake with 5 warriors

[sullen tendon]

Druid, paladin, demon hunter, evoker, everyone else

[rare garnet]

[undone flower]

Famous Druid big defensive toolkit

Being barksin and dstance with a bear skin

[sullen tendon]

Ok but when I come in here talking about healers not doing their job people say you need to only rely on yourself in pugs and never assume anyone will do something right

[bleak saffron]

if u r pugging, and cant trust your healer. Take the loss and spec enraged regen on top of warpaint, use ur victory rush and u will be plenty tanking or ur entire group is wiping anyhow

[radiant plank]

u wont even notice the dps loss dropping 1 point from cruelty for ER

[undone flower]

Reddit will

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1009237219216719902/1201942150166609950/DuyFSlUx.gif

[rare garnet]

Here is a pretty good video. https://youtu.be/WAh5tM52TTY?si=hNJ75sq8tfyzA_CS

[sullen tendon]

Ok but I did that in priory and I still got blamed

Because healer got killed by a cast when everyone’s defensives were on cd and ranged didn’t interrupt it in fire.

[undone flower]

So you got killed bc your group didn’t kick cast, not bc everyone’s defensive were on cd

Unkicked omega death volley usually leads to wipes, even regular bolts do in higher keys

[sullen tendon]

I just don’t understand the massive pushback whenever I suggest something lol. I feel like the only warrior that wants things to change for the better.

A simple suggestion of “ I wish we had another defensive” turns into a massive argument.

[rare garnet]

Because we’re defensively very strong and no one wants to risk being OP for even a moment and get nuked to being worse than we are

To blizzard everything is a nail

[bleak saffron]

and blizzard just pruned defensives because of their bloat

and they very nicely gave you the choice between 10% passive dr or an active dr

so you have what you are asking for

[undone flower]

You are usually too much dramatic tbf

Bc ofc we would accept free money, just, we are not poor as you think

[marble pilot]

I'm not reading everything but way I heard it is yeah we lost a defensive. But defensive stance is so strong now that we got more tanky. As long as you use it right

[sullen tendon]

So really people are just experiencing warrior ptsd from years of knee jerk reactions from blizzard. People want no changes because if something changes warrior will suffer.

https://tenor.com/view/1984-gif-19260546

[undone flower]

That’s exactly the type of message giving pushback vibes, as an example

[sullen tendon]

So what you’re saying is I should just accept that we will always be held back and mediocre because if I ever wish for something blizzard will come to my house and beat me with a baseball bat.

[marble pilot]

You read weird lol

[sullen tendon]

Defensive stance is just a worse feint

Until they nerfed feint

[undone flower]

Im trying to explain to you why you might feel some group pushback sometimes, bc I do read what you wrote usually

[marble pilot]

So its better feint. And feint was one of the best defensives in the game for years.

And it has no cooldown

well 3 second cooldown I guess

[sullen tendon]

Yea im basically like the chosen one of warriors. Ostracized by my village because people are afraid of my radical ideas. People are afraid of me not because they don’t want change but because they are afraid that the nerf bat could be standing outside their front door at night waiting for them.

I get what you mean.

[void rose]

Is the whirlwind cancel macro something we’re using and if so, how?

[marble pilot]

Not really no. And its just so you can use normal rampage in single target and rampaging ruin in aoe

[unborn delta]

they should make odyns fury do 12x more dmg and give you four meat cleaver stacks and the ghost of Odyn himself comes down and smites your enemies instead of it just looking the exact same as whirlwind

[sullen tendon]

https://tenor.com/view/me-at-school-gif-448832491723655420

[void rose]

Ah ok ty

[undone flower]

If you understand it that way, it’s more your parasocial hate of Blizz, or the conspiracy we hold back warrior by accepting the state, you give the vibe of The original wowhead comment

[unborn delta]

3/17 will save the class

[undone flower]

bascially it’s more about how you talk bobby

[sullen tendon]

I get it. Im a freak and a monster.

[undone flower]

You are very emotional about it*, I’m trying to be honest, most ppl are not

[sullen tendon]

So you’re saying it’s ok to be a freak and a monster that the whole village wants to stab with pitchforks. Ok.

[undone flower]

It’s ok to be freak yes

You just will have the village pushback

[sullen tendon]

What if I use my monster strength to fight the village and then go live in a haunted mansion on the tallest hill in town

Wait

I want it to be a castle

[undone flower]

Im still happy to see your visits tho

[sullen tendon]

Wish vampires

I want a roost where I can turn to stone and contemplate

[fading sky]

Im kindda confused fury is perfectly mid atm

Its just 2-5 outlier specs

[compact knot]

Dk feels like it was tuned down quite a bit

It's ST is still crazy though

[fading sky]

I mean uhdk feels mad.

Ofc its not warlock🤣

Or mage

[compact knot]

I think it'll feel better when mobs live

Also you do less than healer dps with no cds

Chud grandpa spec outside aotd

Arcane feels ridiculous to me though, especially if you prepool resources

[marble pilot]

Also all these feels change with the balance on the 17th.
Unless blizz was overselling the importance of the upcoming changes

[undone flower]

I’ve seen a spec being at 9k dps outside of CDs I don’t remember which one

[compact knot]

It's unholy or arms

[vivid moat]

arms

[digital mauve]

So now fury for both ST and MT is high B / Low A ?

[compact knot]

A pretty fair accessment

I'm 236 dk hitting mobs in open world

Doing 5k dps

Owns

[vivid moat]

buff unholy

[digital mauve]

It the perfect place no for not being nerfed and still being good ?

[compact knot]

Truth nuclear bomb

[digital mauve]

Also Im.mlaying Slayer for all content just feels snappier

[compact knot]

It's in a okayish spot, tune down the top end specs and fury will look a little better

It hopefully shouldn't get nerfed again, they really love to nerf warrior though this beta cycle

[digital mauve]

Also does anyone played hpal ? Never played heal before and I'm interested in holy paladin hitting and healing playstyle

[undone flower]

My plate stack has a hpal, it seems underdog, idk much if it is actually underdog

M0s don’t give much info

And yes it was a udk doing 9k dps

[unborn delta]

when levelling my dk unh did feel not that strong, i ended up switching to bdk

but in my m0 plate stack the unholy was doing 180k dps some pulls so its just skill issue likely

[digital mauve]

I feel like uh dk has always been great, never mid

Feels like It's inherent to it's class design

Can't never be bad

[coarse nest]

Omega burst class design yeah that’s always good

[compact knot]

Mage does 300k with cds but then like 90k without them

So just always more then warrior

[slim coral]

I can’t remember the last time warrior had meaty cds

Been so long

[compact knot]

TWW heroic week

[coarse nest]

Spider queen heroic week

[compact knot]

When odyns did damage

But on ST it was DF S3 when we had actual burst

DF S3 was peak

[undone flower]

Even after the S1 nerfs it was 2 gcd bust, but the ST tho, subaug

[marble pilot]

I got a guildie trying hpal. Like it fine. Said getting used to judgement on cool down was weird but otherwise good.

[rare garnet]

Bro we have OF tho

https://tenor.com/view/little-giants-muscles-flex-body-gif-8495707

[fringe reef]

Sooooooooo am I missing something or do we just not really have a defensive anymore for M+ if following the recc'd talent build

No more frenzied regen

[unborn delta]

https://giphy.com/gifs/the-simpsons-NF0cxxxH4VTlS

[fringe reef]

me

[unborn delta]

warrior when they have to press spell reflect every 25 seconds and press defensive stance and lose 10% dmg for 3 seconds: 😱

[echo rapids]

I still need a big Def stance indicator somewhere

[sullen tendon]

Warrior stances are one of the few things that have stuck around for too long. They already killed stances years ago but warrior kept it for some reason similar to slam

If they are going to keep stances in the game give us something like glad back or make some talents that actually make stances fun.

[fringe reef]

not a good feeling defensive 😔

[unborn delta]

give us old berserker stance that gives rage when you take dmg so we are incentivized to stand in puddles

[tranquil sentinel]

10% more damage taken, 3% more crit my beloved

[sullen tendon]

People don’t use defensive stance because it’s basically a toggle ability and people forget to turn it off/ switch back

There’s no other spec that has that

[unborn delta]

i think ppl dont use it because it takes 20 seconds to google a macro for it and they dont want to put in the work

[sullen tendon]

It should have been pruned and replaced with an actual ability

It’s barely a defensive anyways

[unborn delta]

its just as much dr as spell reflect is

idk what you're smoking

[sullen tendon]

Most defensive now days reduce damage by 30+%

[echo rapids]

It’s a really good defensive now

With that new talent

[unborn delta]

it kinda does that if you consider warpaint

[sullen tendon]

No one will use it still

Because it’s annoying

[unborn delta]

the majority of warriors won't use it, true

but the majority of warriors are not good at the game

[fringe reef]

me

gimme back my button i can slam and forget

[sullen tendon]

It’s a healer problem if I die to something that 15% dr would have saved me

[echo rapids]

I had a big shield icon weak aura when I was in def stance and I can’t seem to find anything to replace it

[sullen tendon]

The healer is impairing me by making me lose damage

[unborn delta]

from the way you type it kinda sounds like you wouldn't lose that much dmg by being in defensive stance

[echo rapids]

It’s not 15% with the new talent it’s better

[sullen tendon]

Alright

Still won’t use it

Make it an active ability

Just remove all our defensives and give us passive 50% dr while enraged

Who cares anymore

[unborn delta]

wekinda have that

[sullen tendon]

Ok make it 80

[unborn delta]

maybe its more like 20% passive dr from existing

nk beam would tickle me during prog last season

[sullen tendon]

Also remove shockwave and make thunderclap stun enemies for 0.5 seconds and put everything on perma stun dr

[smoky basin]

I use https://addons.wago.io/addons/defensive-stance-reminder

[sullen tendon]

While we’re at it can they make it so rallying cry makes people get dazed when hit with it active

[smoky basin]

It's hard to ignore

[sullen tendon]

Also can we we replace odyns fury with a talent that just increases raging blows damage by 40% and nothing else

They should make it so defensive stance forces you to rp walk

[olive wraith]

Get bro out of the kitchen

[sullen tendon]

They should make it so whirlwind gives you a stack of the drunk effect and if you whirlwind too much your camera moves uncontrollably everywhere

[fiery edge]

mid blow

[unborn delta]

our apex talent should be removing the gcd handicap from the single button rotation assist

[sullen tendon]

Good idea

Also make it so the one button rotation randomly uses consumables from your bag in the rotation even if you have active buffs already

[dusky moon]

I would level a warrior then

[unborn delta]

god it would be so funny if they made that the ret apex

ret logs instantly skyrocket

[dusky moon]

Lmao

I'm doing one button on my pally for the m0 splits

If I do more damage than buns or silver

I will mock them relentlessly for all time

[echo rapids]

Nice thanks I’ll try it

[unborn delta]

ive heard ppl saying ret is deceptively good preseason

[frosty scroll]

any1 got a thunder clap/blast wa, if those still exist

[random shadow]

are you folks using vet crests on upgrades? considering 2-3 weeks theyre kinda useless

[echo rapids]

I think the advice is to save them until after next weeks m0 clear and then use them

[brittle vale]

So now that arms is gutted is fury bad too?

What tier is it on the tier list

[random shadow]

but tier lists are pointless, fury feels fine/good depending on who you ask

buut if you care for tier lists most of them list them at B-A/A- for both raid and keys

[junior oyster]

Think for yourself maybe

[brittle vale]

But I’m a return player and love arms but it’s deadge

[undone flower]

you can have a big dstance icon when you are in dstance, since it is a buff

i use bettercdm tho idk if you have extra categories with other addons

[echo rapids]

Hmm

[echo rapids]

Arms is a big ST buff away from being fine

[undone flower]

Dstance and berserker are two diff buffs, it will not tell you are in berserk stance

[echo rapids]

Yeah it should just show when d stance is active

[olive wraith]

What did you want it to do?

[rare garnet]

Just do a 500% buff to their auto attack. Kek

[frosty scroll]

literally just track it, using naowhs ui rn and it doesnt track it :p

[winter shoal]

This isn't quite true

Stances are shapeshift forms

Shapeshift forms aren't secret, buffs are

[undone flower]

Dstance is a specific buff in the cdm

[winter shoal]

So addons can query which stance/form you're in, but not what buffs you have

[winter shoal]

Oh yeah if you're doing it in cdm

Sorry I only read half the conversation xdd

[undone flower]

With bettercdm

I use the extra categories to have it as my dstance WA

Or you could use just the cdm buff row, but I don’t like having dstance here

[olive wraith]

Like clap icon don’t change ?

[frosty scroll]

it doesn't show it at all, im just left to guess

tracks everything besides thunder clap/blast

[olive wraith]

Seems like a massive oversight

[frosty scroll]

had to manually add it myself, its listed as non essential for the fury spec lol

[random shadow]

whats the addon/macro or whatever that focuses a mob and marks them with a icon so you can tell folks thats your main kick?

[hollow leaf]

leveling is kinda nuts rn

started doing 1tc 2 bars before 88 and when I turned in my delve quests I was a whole delve turn-in ahead of what I needed

[eternal trench]

Hello, I’m a bit confused, wowhead says mountain thane is best for dungeons, and slayer is best for raids, is this still true? In the builds section in this disc, slayer seem to perform better in dungeon content as well?

[winter shoal]

thane is more advantaged in longer aoe fights - nothing in m0s really lives long enough for that to actually happen

[hollow leaf]

both work just fine

[digital mauve]

I've read they are equal in MT, slayer Plays better though

[winter shoal]

but yeah both are fine

[winter shoal]

last I saw, thane was ~5% better in sustained aoe, ~5% worse single target

[hollow leaf]

thane is more consistent and has better sustained aoe while slayer has a bit higher burst (better in a lot of m0 cases since stuff dies so fast)

you're not trolling by playing either one

just pick whatever you find fun

[digital mauve]

And 50% less enjoyable to play

[winter shoal]

I mean that's subjective but they're close enough that you can do whatever

Funky is gonna play slayer no matter what

[olive wraith]

No clearly it’s data driven analysis

[echo rapids]

I find the flood of resources and procs during reck with varying priorities annoying while playing thane tbh

[winter shoal]

Agreed

[golden solstice]

Thane just feels like something is missing right now

[echo rapids]

It feels oddly unpruned

[olive wraith]

Fury lost like1 cd and didn’t lose any rotational

[winter shoal]

Thane has too much going on during reck/ava and too little going on otherwise

[olive wraith]

so it is kinda “unpruned”

[golden solstice]

lol that 1 cd made a difference for me with muscle memory on my mouse

[eternal trench]

Tyvm fellas, I’ll try both then:)

[olive wraith]

Missing roar affects you that much?

[golden solstice]

im joking not fully but i catch myself hitting another button when nothing is there

[marble pilot]

I havnt done it much yet but Ramp, fill, ramp, fill doesnt feel too bad to me.
It is weird to have endless procs then nothing. Then endless procs then nothing though

[golden solstice]

i haven't looked but how is the balance between us and arms?

[winter shoal]

arms is the worst dps spec in the game and it's not close

[echo rapids]

Arms actually has pretty alright aoe

Ita just quite literally the lowest ST in the game

[marble pilot]

17th changes all. Or nothing. No idea how big Blizz actually goes on those changes. Though I got the impression it will be huge balance patch.

[echo rapids]

They have left so much to do

Their turning has been behind all beta

[golden solstice]

dang so big changes prob coming before season 1 starts

[olive wraith]

There’s “no tuning” until the 17th

[marble pilot]

And it felt to me, though im no developer that the plan was to use launch till the 17th to gather the data.

Well probably like the first week to gather and the second week to change things. But I dunno how that all works

Also no idea if they plan to bring the low people up. Or the high people down.
Likely some mix of both.
Like I have no idea what the goal for ST dps should be

[trail drift]

How’s everyone feeling right now in prepatch? I’m 238 ilvl and struggling to keep up with any of the meta specs. Also the giant pulls feel bad for how target capped we are.

[random shadow]

i feel good in big pulls even against meta classes

im still able to pump high 100ks in aoe ofc

[trail drift]

Slayer or MT?

[marble pilot]

Great timing lol.
A lot of people say fury is doing great and pumping. Outliers will win,
Balance isnt coming till the 17th. So who knows at that point.
Vibes it feels good. Meters it depends on group comp.

[random shadow]

MT

slayer feels wack to me this season

id love a buff to fury but it still fells not bad currently

[trail drift]

Slayer does feel bad right now. Maybe after tier?

[echo rapids]

I did m0 as thane and mostly kept up with the udk and ret

Felt lowest in ST

[random shadow]

tbf MT is just ramp, tb/c

still would love more arms nerfs and fury buffs

[marble pilot]

Ive had some dps hardly hit 30k. And others hold like 90k. I dont think ive seen anyone break 100k yet. But ive only done a couple runs. And I was tanking at the time

[echo rapids]

Nothing is very balanced

[random shadow]

can hit big nummbres depending on the pull size

that and if the ohter 2 deeps do any damage

[echo rapids]

A lot of riding on the 17th and I’m skeptical it will be enough

[random shadow]

its probably a aura buff, not sure what else theyd buff

thunderclap and blast hits like a truck

[echo rapids]

I’m focused more on raiding where I doubt we play MT

[random shadow]

i think im playing ST wrong during dungeon boss fights, but its probably just me being bad

[frank dawn]

huh, they nerfed the voidstorm rep trinket. Wasn't it already pretty awful? lol

[random shadow]

who knows maybe MT will be the build

[marble pilot]

Im mixed on the 17th. I have hope that they do a ton of balancing. But im worry itll be little tweaks. Then another set of little tweaks a week later.
Then nothing till RFW is over

Though I dont think we need any rotational things. Aura buffs might be good enough. I dont know of any classes with heinous rotations right now

[frank dawn]

There are a lot of bosses in the dungeons that are kinda shit for melee imo, and our single target is def not tuned amazing at the moment compared to a lot of classes

[random shadow]

i look foward to big buffs

ideally

[frank dawn]

but no one except blizzard knows if we're too low or some of those others are too high

[fading sky]

Why?

[echo rapids]

The dungeons are chock full of aoe puddles and area denial lol

[fading sky]

Only reason slayer feels weird is low haste

[fading sky]

Most of those are season 2 dungeons

[frank dawn]

it's definitely annoying, but Thegokke is correct. The season 1 dungeons are MUCH better overall

[fading sky]

And most areal denial depends on tanks positioning

[frank dawn]

even if still a little annoying

[echo rapids]

That’s fair

[marble pilot]

Felt the same as ranged tbh. Did a little on my DH. Felt like there was never time to just cast always moving out of puddles.

[fading sky]

Yeye u can c which dungeons have been tested!!

[olive wraith]

Apparently there’s a lot of bosses with ads so time will tell

[fading sky]

In raid slayer feels great?

Also why do u feel slayer feels bad?

I did my m0s as slayer

Felt finr

[marble pilot]

Short lived adds is usually better for slayer anyway. Bladestorm/reap is more bursty than the sustained tblasts.
Though I bet reck/avatar when adds pop goes crazy for tblasting in raid

[fading sky]

I mean slayer gets 2 sd reaps and bladestorm for adds

They prob done pretty fast as well

[marble pilot]

Yeah will all depend on frequency and add hp

[fading sky]

Keep in mind any relevant adds are tine sensitive

Time*

So unless its more sustained ish thane prob wont be the play

[marble pilot]

If its constant adds or council style Thane should win. If its adds every 45 seconds or so then Slayer should

[fading sky]

Tbf though the st is even

U could play both

[marble pilot]

If ST is even im probably camping Thane all season. I just prefer it

Im not a top 100 raider anymore so I can vibe.

[fading sky]

Facts

[marble pilot]

I am still top like 3 on the raid team though so if we run into dps walls I gotta min max what I can lol.

[foggy pine]

Guys it's me or war feel so weak actually ?

[astral folio]

Fury is allright. Arms ST though

[storm solar]

i was about to ask the same question, maybe i am too stupid to play the rotation right

[fathom jay]

Is there an addon that tracks Recklessness like Improved WW Tracker?
Also, about rotation, on WoWhead it looks the same? So we don't spam rampage with the new Rampaging Berserker thing?

[rustic anchor]

Same here, feel really weak and struggle to get some descent stats 😕

[echo rapids]

When are we casting rend for multi target slayer?

[astral folio]

Never

[sullen dove]

probably when you cant cast bb/execute/rampage

its def better than raging blow

maybe can also use over rampage if youre not rage capped

[astral folio]

It is cast by other abilities

[sullen dove]

if dots about to fall off at least

not for slayer

[echo rapids]

Not as slayer

[woven heath]

That's a Thane thing.

[astral folio]

True. Thane

[echo rapids]

Feels strange to put an aoe dot up so late into a pull

[sullen dove]

would think youd still rather hit bb/exe over the dot fallin off tho

i mean honestly you know the charge ww tech thing you can do so the last hit of ww gives u stacks

i think u can do that with rend too

since its like a 1sec ish long "cast" of you spinning and if any of it hits the targets should apply dot

so like can try charge > rend mid charge

[astral folio]

For slayer, rend is way down in the rotation

[sullen dove]

tho means would have to ww later at less opportune times

[astral folio]

Like 5th button

Maddox put up a good video

[sullen dove]

goatox

[echo rapids]

I guess if you have WW stacks up from the last pull

[echo rapids]

Gotcha

[sullen dove]

or if they did one god forsaken thing right in the game and made odyn give us ww stacks

still braindead it doesnt

[echo rapids]

Yeah I was reading “rend if the debuff is not active” wrong in my head

I blame the DayQuil

[marble pilot]

Keep being weak guys. I dont know how balancing works internally but the more info they have about each spec the better they should do. In theory at least.

Id rather be weak for 2 weeks during preseason and have a good balance pass vs the snap nerfs/buffs they did at the start of TWW. Thats how we lost odyns.

Not that they always get the balance patches right we could end up even worse off lol

[indigo quarry]

True, look at arms

[marble pilot]

Yeah but arms could get super buffed come the 17th cause its so weak and end up better than fury

[echo rapids]

Please don’t speak such a fate into the existence

[mossy pelican]

May it stay bad forever I don’t ever want to press demolish

[marble pilot]

https://tenor.com/view/monkeys-paw-paw-monkey-gif-17535679

If arms ever is so dominate that fury is throwing Ill just play my Devourer instead.

[unborn delta]

nerf unholy

[marble pilot]

Not even the highest are they?

[unborn delta]

highest melee i thought

unless rogue is higher but idk if thats true

[marble pilot]

I havnt looked but i trust you

[quiet geyser]

Their balancing choices are questionable at best lol.

If referring to TWW start, fury got the nuke hammer off of prepatch heroic dungeons, then got absolutely obliterated throughout the whole first raid patch, due to them simply designing a raid that fit our kit very well. Sad reality is rash and brood made fury look way better than it actually was, but community perception is a bitch 🤷‍♂️

[marble pilot]

I just thought like demo was crushing or something. but thats ranged

and bears are doing dps damage right now

[young swan]

hasnt happened very many times

think it happened in like

[unborn delta]

shadowlands s1 maybe?

but both were shit

[quiet geyser]

Sylvanas tier? Fury wasnt necessarily bad.. but arms just cranked

[young swan]

hfc, EN, ToS, arguably nya(?), and none since SL (maybe SoD)

[unborn delta]

season of discovery

[young swan]

sanctum of domination

[unborn delta]

blackfathom deeps was peak

[modest condor]

"maybe sod"

[quiet geyser]

We don't speak of s1 SL

Dark times

[modest condor]

3 arms warriors on sylvanas

"maybe"

[young swan]

idk man i didnt play

i just know apook one tricked fury so it couldnt have been THAT bad

[unborn delta]

acherus unholy chat says they wont nerf unholy because sub rogues are doing 160k st what are they smoking over there

[modest condor]

well you see they're going to buff every other spec to do 160k dps as well ofcourse

[young swan]

dk players brains died with the rest of their body

[quiet geyser]

Whose worse

Dk or warlocks

[unborn delta]

warlocks at least are gate bitch some fights, keeps them somewhat humble

[echo rapids]

Warlocks have had to deal with being worse mages for a long time, they know what it’s like to be on the bottom

[quiet geyser]

Warlocks pretty consistently have atleast 1 spec in top 3 dps specs

[echo rapids]

Mages get multiple blinks and resetting time, warlocks get to light themselves on fire to run a little faster

[pine zenith]

which champion neck should I pick?

[quiet geyser]

Ya but give me top 3 dps numbers.. and I'll light myself on fire all day

[echo rapids]

I mean that would hold true if mages weren’t also usually a top spec as well

[fathom jay]

Anyone? 🙂

[coarse nest]

I’d go haste without question

[unborn delta]

haste fo sho

makes class feel better

buffs prot for dungeons too

[pine zenith]

roger, thanks a lot

[young swan]

none that would track specifically that, no, could just use the cooldown manager tho

[fathom jay]

I just mean like a WA that shows a bar emptying as Recklessness is running out, that's what I used to have

[coarse nest]

Oh can you put reck on the bars section of the cdm?

[compact knot]

can also use the cooldown manager for that

[coarse nest]

Think that would get this person what they want

[young swan]

yeah was gonna say that should work in cdm still

[fathom jay]

I see that now, thanks!

About my rotation question, anyone know?

[zinc python]

is the tooltip bugged or does the dreambound augment rune actually give 6 strength while the one from karesh gives 2?

[compact knot]

karesh one gives 7

tooltip bug

[zinc python]

good to know, thank you

[young swan]

would just follow the wowhead prio, theres quite a few differences between last xpac and this if thats what you were referring to

you basically press ramp every other or every 3rd gcd in reck

[fathom jay]

Oh I just checked WoWhead again and it says "Rampage over 120 rage or during Recklessness" -- I guess I only saw the "over 120 rage" and thought it was like before.

This wording implies to me if you have recklesness to spam Rampage if possible, right?

[young swan]

more or less

[fathom jay]

Cool, thanks!

[marble pilot]

From what I saw in practice during reck itll be Rampage>filler>Rampage>filler. With filler generally being Tclap/blast or bloodthirst.

[young swan]

pmuch

depends on slayer vs thane

u dont have as many good fillers as slayer

[marble pilot]

Slayer I assume its just BT>execute>trash fillers you are sad to hit

[young swan]

basically depending on getting SD procs to have to not hit bad buttons

[marble pilot]

Maybe execute>BT I dunno

[sullen dove]

assuming you can still hold up to 2 sd's probably better to bt over execute cuz itll put bt on cd

and its not like you "lose" the execute unless you spend 15 years never hitting it

to let you bt > exe > bt instead of exe > bt > nothing to hit

[verbal kindle]

Looking at the rotation guide on wowhead, and i feel i have a million questions unanswered. Is it because we are waiting for season 1 before an official update?

For instance Thane multitarget, you look at the priority list and think, hmm okay TB during avatar I get it, but where does TB outside of avatar fit in. And where does BT outside of reck fit in, is it lower priority than TC or execute

[sullen dove]

execute prolly one of the lowest prios as thane

better than rb still and maybe better than tc single target or something but dont really have to worry about exe much

just spamming clap/blast + bb/bt + ramp as much as possible pretty much

[young swan]

BT doesnt exist inside reck, its just BB

so BT is still in the same position

clap and blast also still have their own priorities listed for outside cooldowns

[sullen dove]

execute rly over clap

or is that st

[young swan]

think its ST

MT doesnt really change much

just bumps up above execute

[sullen dove]

ja clappa

[young swan]

blast becomes the highest prio button when u have it avail

unless if ur overcapping or whatever

[sullen dove]

i wish i didnt use adventurer crests on crafted weap week 0 otherwise id have adventurer crest meta achieve

missing 2 upgrades o well gg

get next week

[verbal kindle]

Another thing that confuses me, in opener you want to pop big cds then TB, BB, TB,
Buuuut then you are giga overcapping rage, and according to prio list you should have pressed rampage

[sullen dove]

that pic has ramp at above 100 at 4 no

as top prio

[verbal kindle]

Do you get me? The guide isn’t really explaining it in full so noobs like me don’t have to ask so many questions, I can’t read the prio list and get an understanding, nowhere is BT mentioned where it sits in either ST or multi target. I won’t know outside of reck where BT fits in when I can either press BT, TB, TC or execute in ST/multi

[young swan]

personally im following something closer to this, but im not sure how much it actually matters

[sullen dove]

but idk its prolly all similar u can maybe do 1 ramp before all that happens and then do the double blast bb thing

[young swan]

it is, its just hard to list it clearly

i already showed its listed

its just not on a separate line from BB

[marble pilot]

No idea how much this matters vs just click Rampage/bt/tclap as much as you can. And how much itll change on the 17th

[young swan]

cause they have the same prio regardless

Bloodthirst or Bloodbath in recklessness

#7 MT and #6 ST

[sullen dove]

ww....wait...

no...

sssssss

six

[young swan]

https://tenor.com/view/scp-067-67-6-7-six-seven-sixty-seven-gif-13940852437921483111

[verbal kindle]

@young swan okay, so it actually seems that BT is higher prio than even TC in aoe it seems (assuming you have ww stacks) to fish for TB, so you want to have BT on cd

[sullen dove]

generally yes, think only exception is during avatar since casting tc gives you more avatar time or something

so almost always you wanna try to like tb/tc > button > tb/tc > button

only in cds

then otherwise tc doesnt matter as much

or no maybe its just thunder blast

but like i think this also u want to make more use out of

base clap gets a lot stronger

[verbal kindle]

Ahh okay, ty you helped me understand a bit more, I have to look at the ST a bit more and then remember that it basically applies to aoe too, and try to compare them more closely

[young swan]

yeah, fury (thane specifically) has actually gotten significantly more comples this xpac compared to last

we essentially have a couple different priority lists depending on: whether we're in cooldowns, and how many targets are around us

[sullen dove]

fury the "braindead spec" now the most complicated spec after all the other ones got gutted to 3 button rotations

[echo rapids]

Fury and arms imo

It’s kinda wild

[sullen tendon]

I like the forum posts complaining about their fingers hurting after playing fury

[low folio]

do they allow addons that effect their in game damage meter so i can see a breakdown of each abilities damage like old damage meters

[sullen tendon]

They broke that

[young swan]

not in the same way

its massively hamstrung

[sullen tendon]

This is similar to the 1969 moon landing in that our governing bodies made something amazing then decided to break it for no discernible reason and now they can’t recreate the technology for the next 50 years.

[young swan]

but the native damage meters look like shit so i use details

[sullen tendon]

Tracking individual spells is lost technology

Can’t be done anymore

Blizzard lost the code

[low folio]

i thought they had made old damage meters unusable

[sullen tendon]

Oopsie!

Guys let’s break the game and remove stuff for no reason and piss people off lol

[young swan]

they did, and then the old damage meters repurposed

now they are just skinning addons

[low folio]

i mean i understand why they would want to get rid of combat related addons