fury

[cobalt relic]

@stoic echo g&ggggg

[earnest canyon]

I asked before, but you never answered.

Are you a real Dr, or are you like Dr Mario?

[stoic echo]

🤪

[stoic echo]

[high sedge]

[cobalt relic]

@stoic echo IS IT UP

[stoic echo]

I'm stuck in a seminar about Faust gg

[cobalt relic]

look at me grinding

[warm crag]

you should try to defend your town hall by putting it more centrally

[stoic echo]

You got instant backseat gamed in warrior discord about clash of clans gg

[cobalt relic]

hahahaha

[wild mural]

eu still not up

it's so over

[earnest canyon]

what is that

[earnest canyon]

the login server is up, just the servers arent

[soft orbit]

servers are up

[wild mural]

myth track chest on warr, myth track soleahs on druid

ok ok ok

[earnest canyon]

grats

I got 2x 💩

[wild mural]

im never gonna use the soleahs

actually tbh

it's probably better than emp crystal

I was hoping for something better on warr but cant complain about ilvl

[earnest canyon]

Yeah I had somewhat skewed memories of it when it came out and it was good. I have a myth one too, and its not even good as a stat stick. Not sure if there is any class its bis for.

[wild mural]

I think rdruid it is

[earnest canyon]

oh ok

no clue about healers

[remote bobcat]

#fury message

[wild mural]

well I guess I know what im buying

[lapis rose]

Guys can I ask, how I should use execute wa, if I have 130rage and still have buff, should I use rampage or execute if wa up? In keys mostly

[jade cipher]

guys, i have idol + antenna for m+

do i buy another trinket for m+ or just buy salahadar weapon for my arms

[cobalt relic]

ur fine with idol and antenna

[sour frigate]

Sim angle

[cobalt relic]

@lapis rose just press execute if ur enraged

rampge only if enraged is about to fall off or u need to get enraged

[jade cipher]

nah actually its not sim angle, in some situations floodgate trinket might be better and you cant sim it, sometimes you dont even wanna chase orbs,

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jmxGRHVT7VE3SNJXTwci1L

but this is not aoe so i skip it

[sour frigate]

Tbh i like the pacemaker for its consistency

But u can sometimes drop like 6 antenna balls

[jade cipher]

i need to sim salhadar weapon aswell to see if its any good for m+ colossus

[sullen cloak]

What is the estimated release dte for Midnight. I see some places online saying 30th June, others saying March?

[sour frigate]

The blizzard version is by the end of February

[sullen cloak]

That soon....! Ok thanks bud

[jade cipher]

ah so salhadar weapon is not dps gain even on my arms

i can buy sacbrood or floodgate then

[remote bobcat]

okay but is this worth it? My bank is saying no but my autism is saying yes
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6vxfCyJMcVsWL7StigsJtT

[warm crag]

full regem for 6k is cooked yes

[remote bobcat]

okay but my 'tism, Spongie

[jade cipher]

so if i want to see what trinket i should buy, how should i sim, dungeon droptimizer? 1 target 5 min?

i want for m+

[remote bobcat]

its cursed stone idol + wildcard trinket

fuckin sacbrooc or antenna or sum shit

[cunning condor]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3Jmr3kqtyxDSebHSojW1Fv how you have this dmg tho

mine is only 6.094

[remote bobcat]

im capped in ilvl, thats how

u have crafted helm, hero track neck, crarfted ring, hero track boots

i have those slots myth track

thats how

[jade cipher]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3etJX6B1Qe32jfwtGA8QVh this is weird results

for aoe

with 30% antenna loss tho

[remote bobcat]

doesnt seem weird to me honestly

[jade cipher]

no way i buy warpclaw

seems like sim bait

[remote bobcat]

shrugeg

[cunning condor]

what are u guys using for aoe in raids

what trinkets

[humble lark]

Between sacrbrood,idol,antenna and first boss trinket from raid (cant remember name) . What setup would be best for keys. Got all at mythic if that matters.

[remote bobcat]

sim question

[remote bobcat]

check warcraftlogs for each boss wdym

[cunning condor]

gonna get this for fun lmao

[earnest canyon]

It's op as hell on high stacks

[cunning condor]

yes bro

fucking A it is

[heavy dock]

a little spoon of 63k str

[lapis rose]

also in st raid?

[cobalt relic]

yes

[near salmon]

DK friend was trying it out in keys, thing is broken

[humble lark]

is there a big diffrence between powerfull enrage and frenzied enrage? noticing some players are playing powerfull enrage

[cobalt relic]

aoe vs ST

[humble lark]

i see

so which one enhances what? is frienzied best for st?

[ruby bough]

Hi skyhold brothers, quick question: during Mythic Plexus intermission, do we pop recklessness to do dmg to the shield or do i hold recklessness until after the shield has been broken?

I'm going to test it next week using recklessness during intermission. I think I'll have it back by the time the shield is broken

[humble lark]

when in opener do you use idol?right after charge?

[hardy shuttle]

Frenzied is generally better for ST. But I simmed my M+ talents and gear the other day and powerful was only like a 5k dps loss in st so I swapped to powerful in keys. Just have to trust the robot

[remote bobcat]

There is absolutely zero reason to hold recklessness. Why would you hold ??

[ruby bough]

Thanks for the confirmation Kronzo! I thought damage to shields didnt contribute to DPS. I'm new to WoW

[remote bobcat]

thats not a concept in wow

if u deal dmg u deal dmg

we even talent into wrecking throw for plexus

for bonus damage

[ruby bough]

word! I'll keep that in mind

[ruby bough]

ah... I haven't been doing that either. Does avatar/recklessness buff wrecking throw?

[high sedge]

avatar is 20% damage so yes

[ruby bough]

Thanks Kronzo/ouais for the big help

[remote bobcat]

its not affected by the crit buff of recklessness

[ruby bough]

gotchu, so just avatar it is

[remote bobcat]

recklessness also activates ava

[high sedge]

pressing reck grants avatar for 8s

[ruby bough]

Thanks guys!!

[sullen dove]

ur tellin me wrecking cd is reset and avatar isn’t?

or did u link shattering

[remote bobcat]

wrecking

and yes

it does

reset

[sullen dove]

O no I mean it says that yea

nahh this game is cheeks

[remote bobcat]

yes swordull its cheeks

[gaunt loom]

how good do you guys think the dimensius ring is in high keys?

[young swan]

mid

[gaunt loom]

personally i feel like the defensive part would be super helpful

[young swan]

u could check cosmic damage sources if u want

[high sedge]

nature holy shadow and arcane

its quite goodge

[young swan]

im not sure thats how that works

the damage type has to be cosmic, cosmic counting as those damage types doesnt mean that any of those damage types count as cosmic

[gaunt loom]

if it procs together with reshi, then the proc rate must be really good

[high sedge]

if you have the shield and take nature damage, the nature damage is reduced

[clever belfry]

xantage

[young swan]

anda

[clever belfry]

xantage

[young swan]

any insight to offer anda

[clever belfry]

no

[young swan]

W

[clever belfry]

i dont act like i know things when i am clueless

for i have a shred of decency

[gaunt loom]

if we kill dimensius this week, i’m planning to grab the ring

[young swan]

that is very fuck ass coding if thats true

[high sedge]

it would be virtually useless

if it didnt

[young swan]

it would be only useful in the raid

which is still quite useful as a nerfing mechanism for raid fights

[high sedge]

tldr ring good for m+

[young swan]

W

epic ring

[scarlet dock]

do i need to gather stacks for idol?

before using?

[coarse nest]

Well stacks are based on how many targets you hit with the on use

So you charge and start idol cast mid charge and then you get what you get

[scarlet dock]

so i just use it in early pack?

no matter what?

[coarse nest]

Yes

[scarlet dock]

I just dont get it

i,m doing the same rotation

in 2 diffrent pack

and i get diffrent results

it confuses me

sometimes i do 20mill burst sometimes i,m stuck in 12 mill

and i,m presing the same stuff

if my rotation is wrong i should not be hit 20mill in first pack

if its right i should not hit 12mill in second pack

[coarse nest]

So it’s like
Charge+idol > ww as you hit the mobs > Ava+reck + roar > rampage > BS

[scarlet dock]

yeah i do the same

[coarse nest]

Make sure you stand near as many mobs as you can

So the reaps hit them

[scarlet dock]

I do

i also make sure i,m enrage and ww all the time

sometimes i do rotation a bit wrong with ww , like resting it a bit son or late

i,m trying on it

but the more caution i,m being i feel the worse damage

i,m just trying so hard in ww to keep it right and its so diffcult

[coarse nest]

Do you have Bladestorm available at the start of the second pack?

[scarlet dock]

yes

[coarse nest]

Best things I can suggest focusing on are:

[scarlet dock]

i will try to have it for sure if i dont i will try to spam rampage in end of first pck

so i get it for 2nd pack

[coarse nest]

Start each pack with Bladestorm
Maintain enrage
Maintain meatcleaver stacks
Execute at 3x MFE
Raging blow spam
Stand inside as many mobs as possible

[scarlet dock]

i sweer i,m doing this

its just not working :((

[coarse nest]

Keep practicing don’t get discouraged

[junior gale]

Record yourself and double check

[scarlet dock]

can i send a lot of before to you and you watch 1st and 2nd pack?

i have send it here before and i have been noticed about ww issue and i,m trying to fix it but still i would like to you to check it

[coarse nest]

Do you see the log review channel in this discord?
I would run a dungeon to get a log
Create a thread in the log review section and add the clip you want in there + the log

[scarlet dock]

yeah that is a good idea

i,m gonna do that

thanks

how can i record it and uplod it in discord with low size?

i record with obs but the size would be so much

that i have to uplod from a site

[junior gale]

Just twitch stream it and make a clip

[coarse nest]

Well usually you just paste a link to the vod or clip

Not the actual video file

[scarlet dock]

got it , ty

[junior gale]

Can't wait for the context to be the first pull of floodgate with lust vs second pull of floodgate where there's an obvious reason why you would do less dmg in the 2nd pull

[coarse nest]

😂

[wild mural]

kekw

[coarse nest]

Aye ngl my worst dungeon is probably flood those damn saw blades are my expansion nemesis!!

Can’t stand where I want for reaps!! Stg!!

[junior gale]

Saw blades tanks fault

[coarse nest]

[junior gale]

Not moving mobs gg

[coarse nest]

Exactly

[scarlet dock]

actualy i,m doing more damage in small pulls 😂

[wild mural]

fury is my expansion nemesis

buff arms

[coarse nest]

Amen

💯

[junior gale]

Gonna need more context than that cuz if you're just doing low key and you got omega CD bursters stealing your dmg that's gonna make sense

[scarlet dock]

yeah i,m gonna record it and log it for you

[undone flower]

Even with omega bursters, you would have more dps on the bl+pot pull than the second I feel like

[junior gale]

There're so many different little things that go into your dmg in M+ really the absolute best option for improvement and getting people to understand the problems your having is recording your gameplay and reviewing/comparing after

Ppl who send dmg breakdowns and ask if they are doing things right make me die inside

[undone flower]

Yeah dmg breakdowns is cursed to send, but logging is not very common, it’s a start

[junior gale]

Logs are weird because you really need a solid understanding of how to read and go through logs for M+ and not many people are able to effectively do that

Why I always suggest record yourself and review after every key session

[undone flower]

I don’t review m+ log because of it, I keep myself to help ppl in raid

[junior gale]

If you aren't exactly sure what to look out for review the guides and pull up Crits vods and look for a similar key

And compare your recording to his

[undone flower]

Or the dude needs to stream me / vod his key

[junior gale]

However you wanna record your gameplay. That's what I do I just stream keys on twitch purely to have a vod to look through for mistakes

[smoky vale]

twitch vods

💀

[junior gale]

Prob should do youtube

[undone flower]

YouTube Camillax vods

[smoky vale]

my warrior has higher io man

im a warrior main

[junior gale]

I have done nothing but raid log for like the last 2 months

am afk till midnight

[undone flower]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-episode3-obi-wan-movie-2005-films-gif-16879411

[smoky vale]

how geared is your dh @junior gale

we might ahve a spot for title group

[junior gale]

672 🙂

[smoky vale]

die

[undone flower]

Perfect Leveling gear

[junior gale]

TWW dead why play

[smoky vale]

to play with friends?

no other reason required

[junior gale]

True

[smoky vale]

help title is catching up to me

[junior gale]

I've been pretty burnt out of wow lately I just wanna play midnight now

[undone flower]

What is current title rio ?

[junior gale]

Doesn't help I'm still stuck progging dimmy

Fuck that boss

Worst boss this expansion

[smoky vale]

na its 3770

[undone flower]

Damn

Idk what key lvl it represents, it’s 300 over mine, so I guess 2-3 key lvl over me

It’s like half 20s and some 19s ?

[undone flower]

https://tenor.com/view/gohine-hohino-no-hohineee-gohineee-gif-17792172174678204487

[smoky vale]

thats 3 20s

na is stuck at 7 19s

lol

[junior gale]

NA key scene long dead

[humble plover]

Push title on xbox

Call PC players slurs

[undone flower]

Next xbox will be a PC so it will be ironic

[coarse nest]

I don’t care much for p1 so far, especially because can’t charge without weaving.. but overall boss is pretty cool thematically

P3 is so free for us melee we just chill and hit boss walk to our moon when it’s time and once in a while position your circle correctly if it lands on you but otherwise you just look for the melee chat spam haha

[junior gale]

Thematically it's sick and they need to do more of this but I just don't like how it plays on mythic. Doesn't help were almost at 300 pulls now

[coarse nest]

What part of the fight is your team learning currently? just curious

[undone flower]

Almost 300 pulls I would be a little mad about dimmy yes

[junior gale]

We just now consistently getting to p3 with all alive so should die soon. Platform 2 and P1 were our main struggles for awhile

[coarse nest]

Home stretch!

[junior gale]

Should die this week atleast

But I'm so done I just want to be free and take a break for the rest of the expansion

Don't even care about fixing my two non orange parses

[earnest canyon]

Raiding is so fun and not like a job you pay money to do at all

[junior gale]

It's all about the people you raid with that makes it fun

We fuck around and banter a lot most of raid even during prog

Dimmy has been all about flaming left side vs right for us

[earnest canyon]

I know, I know. Sometimes I do question why I do it though, and these days I only do the first few mythic bosses long after they have had multiple tuning passes.

[gaunt loom]

i’m curious, does critcake actually do more dps than simc?

wonder if the really good players actually do more dps than simc?

[earnest canyon]

No. The warrior APL guys just up the numbers after he does a few parses so it matches up

[gaunt loom]

so basically they are the simc then.

[warm crag]

you can quite commonly do more damage than your sim number since its just an average of your damage over however many iterations it simmed

[earnest canyon]

but simc is playing perfectly no? always in position, no downtime, no gcds on kicks or defensives etc. So how can you beat it?

[warm crag]

that said you can't "outdamage the apl" cause the apl is just a list of instructions of how to play the character and if you play according to the same rules at best you can do the same as it

[smoky vale]

did you win the d2 rwf

[bitter palm]

u can high roll

[warm crag]

no

[gaunt loom]

become the hekili itself.

[warm crag]

î said this

you will now shrink

[smoky vale]

her

[bold bear]

just get more procs ez

[radiant plank]

Wows complexity is basically downloading a bunch of addons and hitting buttons when the SIM tells you hit them. It’s gotten way out of hand. Someone hitting all other buttons and using their DPS cooldowns shouldn’t be 30% below a guy who’s sitting there with 6 different addons telling him the precise moment to cast X. Any time you watch a pro streamer their UI looks like an alien space ship compared to the default UI

[warm crag]

true

[tepid cedar]

i disagree here. someone jsut hitting buttons should not be on par with someone playing properly. legit, we have a WW WA and execute WA. there a few other things u need to watch for but. thats the skill gap.

[smoky vale]

[young swan]

[tepid cedar]

thats just my opinion though. no way shape or form do i think im right

[sullen dove]

playing properly as fury is just hitting buttons tho

[bitter palm]

u can send sd on cd

and lose

2 dps

[dapper goblet]

you see, arms (bad) is a good spec first tier of the expansion because at that point is better than fury (bad) because fury scales better (good) as the time goes on and you get more and more stats (scaling) every tier, so at the end of an expansion generally fury is better (good) because it scales (good) better

[sullen dove]

like so long as ur not slamming bt on cd and keep enrage up there’s like no combination of buttons where u lose more than like 5-10% dps of the “optimal” aside from just not hitting abilities like execute and bladestorm

[sullen dove]

big fan of arms

[tepid cedar]

5-10% is quite alot

[sullen dove]

I mean not as much as other classes

[tepid cedar]

we get happy on a .5% increase lol

and i agree.... again i wasnt trying to sound elitist or anything like that

[sullen dove]

like it’s super hard to play warrior “wrong” there really isn’t such thing as wrong

[tepid cedar]

buuutttt

u can tell a goooood warrior playing right

[sullen dove]

eh I mean not over capping rage ever and consuming 2mfe usually only like signifying differences I think

aside from like idk saving bs for Ava/reck

that’s some forward thinking

but like 90% of it is hit rampage and hit raging blow and that doesn’t look very different between most people

[tepid cedar]

all that shit adds up though. i have played with a bunch of other warriors this season and im gapping them by 2-3 mil. with about same gear. one of them is a close friend and he jsut presses shit as he sees fir for the most part

[sullen dove]

gaping

[tepid cedar]

lol

FIXED

u dirty minded mfr

[sullen dove]

[earnest canyon]

the goatse man would like a word

[tepid cedar]

lol

[agile field]

is there a rage threshold one uses rampage over raging blow or rly just once one either runs out of raging blow stacks or enrage?

[sullen dove]

single target u don’t want to overcap rage generally so yea at like 100-110+ ish is fine time to use rampages

[coarse nest]

100-115

[sullen dove]

but don’t wanna drop enrage so can hit it earlier if u gotta

[agile field]

thats sorta what ive been doing, but the rota on wowhead got me thinking cause strictly it seems to prio rb as long as u dont lose enrage

[sullen dove]

yea that’s directly after a bladestorm

that is the only st use case of spamming RBs past rage cap

But only for before the first rampage after a bladestorm u stack slaughtering strikes cuz it combines with brutal finish for bigly ramp

otherwise there is presumably another raging blow clause below that ramp one which is the “main raging blow” usage

[agile field]

i quoted from standard rotation, this sint taken out of like the opener

[sullen dove]

Yeah

after every bladestorm you do you can spam raging blow until enrage falls off

[agile field]

strictly this says all the time

thats what confused me here

[sullen dove]

the after bladestorm part is the key you get a bs every like 25-35 sec

ye so u do number 7 right after bs ends and then you hit the rampage as enrage is about to fall off (or you’ve run out of raging blow charges), then you follow the number 10 rb prio as compared to ramp

the like “normal” rotation

[agile field]

but that isnt what it says

so are we wrong or is the description wrong

essentially that thing says overcap rage as long as u have RB charges and enrage

[sullen dove]

Raging blow repeatedly after bladestorm to build up slaughtering strikes to buff a rampage is that bit super clear

[agile field]

omg

bro i cant read

[sullen dove]

I guess it doesn’t specify “until first rampage after bladestorm”

but like it’s only cause you get the brutal finish buff for 1 ramp after you use bladestorm

[loud moon]

Not taking bladestorm CDR or imminent dim in to consideration, is there a target count where you completely ignore sudden death procs inm favor of raging blow for reap value

surely there is?

[sullen dove]

prolly more than like 8 or 10 but rather than ignoring procs you can ignore the weakaura and hit it on 3mfe instead of the usual 2

[agile field]

@sullen dove thanks i got it now. i was missing that part u kept repeating haha

[loud moon]

do we know if things like idol benefit from enrage?

[sullen dove]

but kinda depends like if it’s a big pack with varying health mobs you might wanna only spam RBs to reap on all the tiny shits and once the pack size is reduced by like half can do more executes since reap isn’t hitting as many to get the cdr for a new pack, some instances like raid fights tho you need to hit certain amounts of cdr to line up with adds so maybe are forced to rb a little less

like the dmg from idol? No trinkets usually only buffed by versatility, and crit chance I guess

[sullen dove]

i don’t imagine idols dmg proc takes its own crit into account? Unless it like applies the crit to you before it does the dmg maybe like ramp benefitting from its own enrage but I didn’t think idol dmg that significant anyway

[radiant plank]

sorry

Highly experienced WoW player here. WA can and does play class for you in many situations. If you also remove 'class' from the argument, WA can and does effectively play for you. It is not a trope. Have a nice day.

[plush zephyr]

fury players bad cause they need wa to be good

https://tenor.com/view/grow-up-bro-are-you-gonna-tell-me-im-wrong-gif-14289596

[junior gale]

Most of the time with simple classes like warrior the skill diff doesn't come from doing the rotation priority right but by being good at the more universal aspects of the game. Movement, positioning, no empty globals and understanding the fight/dungeon.

[earnest canyon]

whoever this is, i wanna see the conclusion where the guy gets up and just knocks him out

[junior gale]

There's still gonna be plenty of skill gaps in midnight

[plush zephyr]

pretty sure it was the “is fish wet in water” video

[earnest canyon]

idk what that is

[plush zephyr]

https://youtu.be/TPDdRrMVEnA?si=S93iF7-PgAwYvVR2

I got my internet mixed up

Idk what that gif is lol

[earnest canyon]

I just want to see the guy sitting down get up and knock him out. Is that too much to ask in this day and age?

[agile field]

speaking of midnight and no more WA's, how we gonna track ww stacks, we counting out loud?

i should prob look at the ui changes theyve made at some point

[plush zephyr]

https://youtube.com/shorts/uznUlgpKBzE?si=MXI0nmpB4Q1C34HR

[plush zephyr]

The cool down manager tracks it already, like the one we have now

[earnest canyon]

that isnt what i wanted

[agile field]

oh damn i didnt even know what the cooldown manager was until just now ahaha thanks

[young swan]

yeah but it also sucks

like really bad

[agile field]

the cooldown manager for ww stacks with the timer text removed is literally my weak aura

what do u not like about it?

[young swan]

delay on stack reduction for rampage

[agile field]

my wa has that too

i kinda got used to calculating it in my head for that case

[young swan]

yeah its very bad and only fixable with a weakaura

[agile field]

its not rly a biggie

[young swan]

its quite annoying

to me personally

having played with 0 delay for 8 years

[agile field]

well in a way we lose several wa things, having been used to them

so will be several things needing to relearn / get used to in a different way

[remote bobcat]

its not only whirlwind stacks being reduced late by rampage

getting a raging blow stack is late now too

due to that dogshit change

from what was it? hns?

[young swan]

well thats just because hns can proc off every ramp hit

[remote bobcat]

istg i never had that issue back in season 1

[young swan]

the ww change was some backend shit to prevent you from losing a WW stack if your rampage got parried

[agile field]

mhhh im not sure i understand. rampage hits over the course of time in several hits, right? and each hit has a chance to restore a RB stack, no? so then it just means the first or second ramp hit of idk how many didnt return a stack

right, guy above said same

[young swan]

or at least, thats what we hypothesized

i dont think we ever got an official explanation for it

[remote bobcat]

whatever the reason, its a shit change

[agile field]

i sometimes forget parry exists cause we stand in front of bosses stacked up as a group so often

[remote bobcat]

just remove parry

[young swan]

yeah its super annoying

[remote bobcat]

from raid

[agile field]

parry is great tbh if u think about it

adds gameplay depth without adding a button that requires seven weak auras to track

[young swan]

what

[remote bobcat]

dude

[young swan]

are u a morgan day alt account

[remote bobcat]

parry is not great

[dapper goblet]

https://tenor.com/view/madagascar-penguins-of-madagascar-skipper-bait-clickbait-gif-7373851025472833661

[agile field]

i mean if they remove parry, they would simply rebalance dps lower to account for it being removed, but then there'd be less gameplay depth cause u never care if u are in front of the boss or behind

[dapper goblet]

https://tenor.com/view/bait-thats-bait-tom-hardy-mad-max-gif-5055384

[agile field]

its not bait, i think u aguys arent following

[remote bobcat]

brother

[agile field]

u want more dps and less positional requirements

[remote bobcat]

there are bosses

that parry u

where u cant get to their back

[young swan]

dimensius p1 parries

where should i go to outplay that

[agile field]

u cant

part of the game design

[young swan]

okay so its bad design

got it

[remote bobcat]

that is not design

that is lack of awareness

that is copy pasting backend tags

[agile field]

blizz could remove parry from the boss that cannot be walked behind to, but they dont, could be its on purpose

[remote bobcat]

that is not intentional by any means

[dapper goblet]

https://tenor.com/view/oops-shocked-seriously-omg-tremors3-gif-22329296

[remote bobcat]

omg xeos lmao

[agile field]

u rly love the bait meme just to discredit what im saying

[plush zephyr]

not really. it’s about 75% way there to being great. a few custom options and additions to tracking and it’ll literally be perfect.

[remote bobcat]

That's assuming that they care about this

it's not problematic so they won't

[young swan]

im not even kidding just using action bars is better than the cdm

[agile field]

some bosses are 2 target cleave and arms beats fury. should blizz make every boss like that? by your logic yes. just like removing parry

[plush zephyr]

been using it all season, and, have come to quite like it. only class I have to use a wa for is bum ass fury.

[young swan]

why dont bosses have spell resist then

[agile field]

different bosses favour different specs and classes, ie dim p1 favours ranges and caster a little bit

[plush zephyr]

how

[remote bobcat]

Why is there no magical parry

[agile field]

spell resist used to exist, idk what happened to it

[young swan]

they accomplish the exact same goal except i can actually scale action bars the way I want to

[agile field]

the diff is the spell u can never walk behind the boss

[remote bobcat]

It got removed to streamline damage for the sake of balance

[young swan]

yeah it got removed because it was archaic game design

you're almost there !

[agile field]

parry is very different from spell resist

[young swan]

its the exact same

[agile field]

parry the player can avoid by walking behind the boss

spell reisst the player can do nothing

[remote bobcat]

parry is only different from spell resist when you can avoid it - you cannot always avoid it.

[agile field]

except in old versions stack anti resist gear or hit etc

[plush zephyr]

Your action bars don’t track stuff

[young swan]

yes they do

[agile field]

wait until u find out life isnt fair my child

[young swan]

they track SD charges and RB charges and imminent demise charges

[agile field]

itll be a rough awakening

if u already shit your pants for dim p1 parrys

[plush zephyr]

I think you’re just finding reasons to hate on it. It’s not fully done, but it’s not shit.

[young swan]

its quite bad

[remote bobcat]

Ah yes what a good way to discredit an argument when you can't explain why it does make sense to keep parry in unavoidable situations

[dapper goblet]

parry is bad

dumb if think its good

[agile field]

i explained repeatedly. it adds gameplay depth

[earnest canyon]

Is that super mario? He has lost weight...lookin fine

[remote bobcat]

and we told you it does not add gameplay depth in unavoidable scenarios

[young swan]

it doesnt add gameplay depth, it adds needless friction

there is no situation that is made more interesting by having parry

[plush zephyr]

Wow is literally built on needless friction

[young swan]

it literally only causes frustration

[agile field]

if u dont like friction, why dont u set yourself up a house next to the target dummy and live there?

no friction there.

[dapper goblet]

https://tenor.com/view/bait-we-fed-the-trolls-fish-this-has-gotta-be-bait-dont-feed-the-trolls-gif-4673057485460817879

[agile field]

enjoy the target dummy game

its not bait lmao

u guys are basically whining

and im saying there's gameplay design reasons

players always want such stuff

[olive wraith]

Bring back expertise

[young swan]

u are shilling for a company that keeps a mechanic in because 1 dude thinks it adds texture 😭

[remote bobcat]

Name a single game design reason to keep dimmy 1 parry for example

[agile field]

and devs gotta push back against dozens of children whining for three days straight on the forum

[remote bobcat]

we arent whining at all mate

we're giving constructive criticism

[dapper goblet]

i love being behind the boss like a good little piggy melee and then the boss decides to 180 cast a mechanic and i parry

i'm so rock hard when that happens

[remote bobcat]

cluegi~1

[agile field]

all bosses are different and thereby favour different specs, classes etc. its like complainging there are more than 4 adds on a bossfight because fury cleaves onto exactly 4 more targets

[plush zephyr]

Isn’t wows whole thing now is if we can’t understand it they’re going to take it out?

Doesn’t parry fall under that?

Lmao

[agile field]

do u also cry when u cast rampage and it doesnt crit? it happens. there used to be hit and expertise, granted not all loved, but its part of the game design and wasnt all bad

[dapper goblet]

you are damn dumb

[agile field]

i disagree

u are whining and get upset

ok be my guest

[dapper goblet]

dont think i've whined

[agile field]

make some sad sounds while youre at it. "mommy p1 dim parried me"

[dapper goblet]

bro thinks everyone in here is 10 because they dont like parry

[agile field]

plexus cast on me and my rampage got parried. my parse is 98 and my week ruined

[remote bobcat]

Here's the difference, my child.

You are looking at purposefully designed mechanics, purposefully designed encounters. Boss counts, etc.
We are complaining about a mechanic that is both archaic and lacks intentional design in modern wow. It's a remnant of the "hit chance" combat design, which has been fully removed except for parry, which is still remaining in the game.
All we are saying is that parry is:

• outdated
• bad design
• needlessly frustrating in a game where this "depth" does not add anything at all.

[young swan]

good lord u are a dense fuck

[plush zephyr]

parry is dumb and out dated

[dapper goblet]

the guy is legit a goober

[smoky vale]

https://tenor.com/view/south-park-67-67-south-park-67-south-park-6-7-gif-13284396363591354590

[dapper goblet]

gio67

[plush zephyr]

ayyyyye

[agile field]

No. Parry was kept exactly because it isnt "archaic" like hit or otherwise. It can be interacted with and adds gameplay depth

[young swan]

except for when blizzard forgets and u cant interact with it and ur class just does less damage for fun

yeah totally a good and well designed mechanic

[agile field]

question is did they rly forget?

[remote bobcat]

they dont forget it exists, but they forget to remove the parry flags on encounters.

[dapper goblet]

https://tenor.com/view/bait-cat-is-this-bait-cat-is-this-ragebait-gif-10902073105296387701

[agile field]

hunters burst better at higher target counts than me. maybe i should ask my tank in m+ to pull only the correct amoutn of mobs for my personal dmg gain

[young swan]

not even remotely the same

[dapper goblet]

comparing that to parry just proves you are very dumb

[remote bobcat]

Bro i cant how can you keep making these extremely inaccurate comparisons and not see how they dont work

[dapper goblet]

but its okay

we all have bad opinions

[young swan]

make a coherent argument in your next message or u can sit in the corner

[agile field]

idk bro u just love to find negatives and complain about, i dont

[smoky vale]

xeos when is enh back

[dapper goblet]

never

[junior gale]

I love when a boss that I can't stand behind can parry my attacks

[remote bobcat]

according to rissa thats intentional design kept in to make melee specs worse

cluegi~1

[agile field]

i suppose if u struggle to see why the analogy fits or how it compares then maybe the membranes arent working hard enough to find the meaning that is there

[junior gale]

[remote bobcat]

MEMBRANES

ah yes

ahhh yes

[dapper goblet]

https://tenor.com/view/anime-rage-bait-rage-ragebait-jojo's-bizarre-adventure-gif-6165949868010589137

[agile field]

insane, insane in the membrane

[remote bobcat]

synapse = membrane

Love it

[agile field]

u know the song right

[remote bobcat]

No cluegi what song ur referring to im german my guy

[junior gale]

Bring back spell resist if we suffer then they suffer

[remote bobcat]

Nah why have spell resist when you can have spell parry instead

make mages hit from behind

[junior gale]

Make mobs unable to resist spells if the spell hits them in the back

[dapper goblet]

make instant cast spells have a chance to resist

hard casts dont

[remote bobcat]

Rissa did you ever fall for the steam card scam going around on discord?

[junior gale]

Call it spell parry

[agile field]

Cypress Hill - Insane In The Brain

Insane in the brain
Insane in the membrane
Crazy insane, got no brain

[remote bobcat]

uploaded 2009 to yt

we wildin

but i do actually know that song yea

been a long time since i heard it

[agile field]

unironically that would at least add gameplay depth but prob be quite annoyiong as they are distant from the target so while u can walk thru the boss quicker as u are closer theyd need to walk a marathon

[junior gale]

My favorite thing about parry is it took em years to make CS not able to be parried just for Midnight to come out and merge CS and WB so CS can be parried again

Can't wait to have my CD parried again

[remote bobcat]

Nah that'd be good design because that adds healthy friction and depth where melee specs get rewarded for being able to get behind the boss quicker

hmmNod

cluegi~1

[young swan]

my favourite is when i press execute and it gets parried, eats my mfe stacks, doesnt give me cdr, but retains the sd stack

some VERY consistent logic being applied there

[agile field]

it would likely be too much friction

[dapper goblet]

https://tenor.com/view/vegito-vegito-gansta-vegito-suit-drip-vegito-bait-used-to-be-believable-gif-315651423676567245

[young swan]

no it creates good texture

[remote bobcat]

Hm nah you're wrong casters should have to work for their damage

its good design

[agile field]

right

good u arent a designer then huh

[remote bobcat]

i actually did work on designing games

[earnest canyon]

They do, they have cast times.

[remote bobcat]

and those spells are balanced to hit hard due to the downtime that casts provide

so thats a nonargument right there

[agile field]

world of warcraft literally started out where most your dmg was auto hits, u could influence your dmg but little overall. now its so much in your hands and still u find something to complain about

[remote bobcat]

FacePalm

[young swan]

good thing its not 2004

[zealous pier]

You sound like you’re giving blizzard too much of a good time in your hands

It’s a trash mechanic

[agile field]

nah blizz fucks up a lot

but i think parry is a good mechanic

[earnest canyon]

Seems fair enough to me. But not all of them hit hard all of the time else noone would ever play melee

[remote bobcat]

The issue is not just that parry exists

it's also how it exists

what happens when you get parried

the mechanic, in its entirety, is flawed

[agile field]

do i enjoy getting parried? of course not. thats the point of it. when i do avoid it either by myself positioning correctly or just luck i am more happy

[olive wraith]

So was the fact that spells don’t have equivalent addressed

[young swan]

yes

they think spell resist is bad

[agile field]

its like saying sad movies shouldnt be sad cause u dont like being sad. various emotions hit u differently

[young swan]

but parry is fine and good

[olive wraith]

[remote bobcat]

It really isnt that

[agile field]

spell resist cannot be countered tho

[zealous pier]

Not even normal parry, parry in P1 dimi is completely fine and adds depth.

[young swan]

yes and neither can parry when blizzard doesnt implement it properly

[zealous pier]

P1 parry can’t be countered

[dapper goblet]

https://tenor.com/view/itachi-itachi-uchiha-naruto-anime-gif-gif-6980510505105788152

[young swan]

which they often dont

[agile field]

for all i care p1 dim could have removed parry

[remote bobcat]

he said it's there for a reason (probably) and that this is a natural nerf for melee specs

comparing it to

2 target fights

where arms beats fury

[junior gale]

My favorite is when the opposite of that happens especially on dimmy where it doesn't consume my MFE stacks but consumes my SD so I'm just sitting there at 3 stacks waiting for another SD proc

[earnest canyon]

Spell resist sucks, especially if you are hardcasting a fully buffed pyro

[agile field]

but then u also gotta ask why dont they spawn a different amount of adds, as a different amount of adds with different amounts of HP pools favour other classes or spec. like why dont the adds stay there for 2mins such that arms can have a field day with sweeping strikes

[remote bobcat]

The parry mechanic does not exist to make a spec better or worse, Rissa

[agile field]

overall im not losing sleep over p1 dim parries

[zealous pier]

This guy is high

[agile field]

if blizz forgot to remove it or kept it on purpose isnt rly that big of a deal

nah im just not on the doomer whine crybaby train

[dapper goblet]

https://tenor.com/view/screw-loose-cuckoo-gif-2413288734738062250

[agile field]

and u guys arent used to someone opposing u that long

[remote bobcat]

I'm very curious why you think it's whining when we say that a mechanic is inconsistent

genuinely

[junior gale]

Anyone who disagrees with me is a whiney baby doomer

[agile field]

right

i never said p1 dim is magic game design. its either on purpose or forgotten, but parry OVERALL is a great mechanic

[earnest canyon]

Do we still have parry haste?

[agile field]

no one here said "remove p1 dim parry exactly as it cannot be countered by the player" u guys said u want to remove parry ALTOGETHER

[agile field]

ptsd

[young swan]

yes because its an annoying mechanic that blizzard cant be assed to implement consistently

[dapper goblet]

feel like the majority dont like parry

and its bad

[junior gale]

Nothing wrong with thinking that just don't belittle people with opposing views

[earnest canyon]

https://tenor.com/view/pedro-pascal-gif-1833707996207285481

[remote bobcat]

you literally implied it to be intentional design or possible intentional design

[young swan]

if they dont even care enough to implement it with any sort of consistency then why should it continue to exist

[dapper goblet]

https://tenor.com/view/aizen-aizen-sosuke-bleach-ragebait-gif-3764435146716299456

[remote bobcat]

We are calling to remove the mechanic because it's so highly inconsistent across so many avenues of the game over such a long period of time.

[agile field]

u never played a game where the game designer literally built a mechanic or a level in a way that u just cant counter it in some situations and u just get fucked by it? that "unfairness" in itself is design (assuming it was intentional)

[junior gale]

If they removed parry all together a majority of the player base wouldn't even notice

So why should it exist

[agile field]

we would notice cause no one bothered to walk behind the boss anymore

how nice is plexus sentinel where most just braindead afk in front the boss when there's actually space to be behind? u see the noobs

[dapper goblet]

why doesnt parry exist in m+

[remote bobcat]

tanks turn the boss there wdym

[agile field]

it doesnt?

[dapper goblet]

https://tenor.com/view/jerry-meme-tom-and-jerry-meme-jerry-points-get-a-load-of-this-guy-this-guy-gif-11384860625931393733

[junior gale]

Why does it matter if ppl are Infront of a boss or behind it

[agile field]

well depends on the tanks i guess haha ive seen a lot of things u know

[agile field]

because the ones behind dont get parried

they know more about the game than the ones in front

[agile field]

i rly didnt know tbh 😄 no parry at all on all trash and bosses in m+?

[dapper goblet]

bless your soul

[junior gale]

Bruh

[young swan]

so we just dont know what we're talking about

thats good

[agile field]

i play on and off, i dont know all changes they make

[young swan]

very valuable conversation

[junior gale]

I love talking about things

I know nothing about

[agile field]

idk it supports my line of thinking

[dapper goblet]

lets not have an opinion like "parry is good" if we play off and on

[remote bobcat]

Let's not assume a mechanic to be good when you don't know why it's bad

[agile field]

cause when they removed parry from m+ they obviously had a conversation about it, and they decided to remove it in m+ but not raidbosses. then it really was an intentional game design decision

[young swan]

parry never existed in m+

[junior gale]

^^

[young swan]

literally never

[modest condor]

wrong

[junior gale]

Only time a boss parried in M+ is if it was a raid boss

In a dungeon

[young swan]

how do u not know how parry works and still argue so vehemently in its favor

[agile field]

dont worry i come back and play still 95th and above so we're okay here im not a noob i just dont track every single little detail of the game or read datamined info for breakfast

[dapper goblet]

https://tenor.com/view/mewing-bird-gif-16835999897918525830

[young swan]

to my knowledge parry only exists as a mechanic on things that are marked as raidbosses

[modest condor]

some mobs in m+ are marked as raidboss

[hardy cargo]

it exists rn in hoa

[modest condor]

^

[young swan]

💀 icon

[agile field]

all i know about parry is it only happens from the front. and it doesnt from the back. this leads to the player wanting to be behind which adds gameplay depth

[remote bobcat]

I mean didnt odyn in Halls of Valor parry?

due to the same flag?

[agile field]

it used to be everywhere, they changed it throughout the xpacs at some point i guess

[young swan]

i would not consider that "existing in m+"

its tied to the mob tag

[agile field]

u are literally changing my life tho bro

[young swan]

odyn was a raid boss, and inherited the parry flag

[agile field]

cause now i wont stand behind mobs in m+

[young swan]

idk why the hoa boss is skull marked tho thats a bit weird

happens when u dont play the xpac i suppose

[modest condor]

not the only time a non-raidboss has been able to parry

spires of ascension 3rd boss could parry as well

[agile field]

u know what i agree now tho that parry is implemented in a very inconsistent way, especially given how it used to work vs now

[chilly fractal]

Not true but mostly true

[remote bobcat]

fun fact: the design decision to keep 3% parry chance in the game was made in Warlords of Draenor. 11 years ago. That in itself isnt a criticism to parry as a mechanic but god damn.

that was also the very last time the mechanic was touched

[agile field]

well if u play classic u will realise the game hasnt changed as much as we'd like to think in many ways

pick up bear poop 8 times

[remote bobcat]

i played every iteration of classic

[junior gale]

Got any you can think of?

[agile field]

same quest, same bearpoop, 20 years later

[remote bobcat]

retail is different

combat wise

[chilly fractal]

Last boss of HoA is a current example

[dapper goblet]

parry is dogshit in both versions

[remote bobcat]

parry was a very cool sound back in the day

[fading sky]

ye can we delete parry

[remote bobcat]

it felt impactful

even if negative and dogshit

[fading sky]

or at least say u can only be parried if u are target of ya target

[zealous pier]

Ragnaros PTSD in firelands

[remote bobcat]

Or at least say only bosses with weapons parry

cluegi~1

[fading sky]

😄

[junior gale]

Was he a boss apart of CN I have no idea why he would be tagged as a raid boss

[fading sky]

Crab boss didnt parry

like the idea of trying to force ppl being behind boss

is all well and good

fight designs arent like that anymore

[agile field]

i suppose the spammy nature of retail could be at work here as well a bit. since we press our buttons so many more times losing 1 to parry doesnt feel the same. in classic imagine saving up rage for 10s to press mortal strike and it got parried then u can really cry, or well, it crits and u take half hp off someone now u feel pretty good. this gap is reduced now i think

[dapper goblet]

just get behind him cluegi

[chilly fractal]

No that’s why it’s weird

[zealous pier]

Yes of course idk how I forgot to go behind him after P1

[junior gale]

Hence why parry should be removed how fucking inconsistent it is xd

[dapper goblet]

i loved playing my rogue on ultraxion

(cant get behind her)

(cant backstab)

(added depth)

[junior gale]

Her?

[dapper goblet]

(felt the texture)

[agile field]

hahahaha

[dapper goblet]

isnt ultraxion a female

[remote bobcat]

male

[dapper goblet]

googling

[deep hare]

ultraxion is male bud

ur done

[agile field]

bro wanted to get behind the male dragon so bad he been thinking about it since then

[remote bobcat]

damn

thats crazy

[dapper goblet]

shiet

[remote bobcat]

L:MAO

[remote bobcat]

actual banger

[deep hare]

he is the beginning and the end

[dapper goblet]

2025 can be w/e it wants to be

[deep hare]

the shadow which blots out the sun

[chilly fractal]

In your defense it’s been like 13 years

[deep hare]

type shit

[dapper goblet]

was like a year ago in classic

https://tenor.com/view/fuck-my-cluegi-life-cluegi-egirl-egirl-smoking-brainrot-gif-4571058359112947106

[chilly fractal]

Who played?

[agile field]

see im not all bad

[deep hare]

atleast 1 raid groups worth of people

[chilly fractal]

Nobody has to know if you did

[zealous pier]

They fixed the ultraxion thing at some point during the tier

[remote bobcat]

no one said you were

people just called you high

or stupid

or both

[agile field]

hahaha

[young swan]

dense

[agile field]

good good, let the hate flow through you

[dapper goblet]

goober

dumb

lots of names were said

[deep hare]

if u dont wanna get parried just level sword skill

[agile field]

https://tenor.com/view/let-the-hate-flow-through-you-gif-11207010703952945273

[deep hare]

or mace skill if ur using gavel

[remote bobcat]

i thought we all agreed to use shalamayne?

[agile field]

what does cluegi mean

[junior gale]

Shala what?

[remote bobcat]

its an emote

cluegi~1

[plush zephyr]

Next time I’m on prog I’m going to ask about our strat for parry

[junior gale]

[agile field]

not sure exactly what the face expresses. smug?

[deep hare]

hope they bring sanguine depths back into rotation soon so the last boss can continue to parry cluegi people

[remote bobcat]

willful ignorance

[agile field]

ah ok

thanks

[remote bobcat]

or its just

making fun of smth

[deep hare]

the face is from a comic where a guy says something isnt going to happen when it obviously will and acts clueless about it

[remote bobcat]

thats going too in-depth, this isn't accurate anymore

[agile field]

next boss design where boss cannot be walked behind will have the parry flag removed

[remote bobcat]

Why does frac have it removed but dimmy p1 doesnt

Hmmge

we will never know

[chilly fractal]

Fuck Dimmy

[agile field]

coz like bro dimmy is the ultimate voidlord he couldbve brought back miss but he chose to give u a chance

[remote bobcat]

read this rant #fury message

[agile field]

they must have a checklist for bosses where they go through that decision hopefully. or maybe they just forget sometimes

[deep hare]

bring back halondrus

[plush zephyr]

+1

[deep hare]

he knew how strong he was so he made it so you cannot miss or parry him regardless of where you stand

he didnt need the help

[remote bobcat]

you have an encounter design team. The encounter design team is the team that decides how encounters are made. They are not the team that applies gameplay flags.

Thats up to the individual

that has been tasked with it

[agile field]

i love dimmy. i played him like 5 times before i died flying into a rocka nd then it took me two more tries to realise the rock can actually kill cause i was so used to just brainafk flying. now i wonder if the beam he does cna kill, too, but im too afraid to test it

[deep hare]

wow is built upon miles of spaghetti code if they removed parry tag from dimensius it probably blows up stormwind and removes shadow priest from the game or smth

[remote bobcat]

btw dimmy is the worst modern boss in terms of combat design and i have yet to be proven wrong

💯

[plush zephyr]

I think everyone would agree with you.

[remote bobcat]

the outer part doesnt, the inner part does

[chilly fractal]

We’re still working thru p2… im trying to convince everyone we just go as fast as possible

[young swan]

p1 stinks

i dont like

[agile field]

kek

[young swan]

hate p2

but its definitely not good

[deep hare]

i like how they built dimensius to be the size of stormwind and the biggest boss we've ever fought and the only phase where he's that size you fight some random elite voidwalker mobs and do a bit of flying around

masterful bait

[remote bobcat]

Rissa read my rant

on dimmy

[agile field]

im not getting that, what constitutes inner part of the rock here?

[deep hare]

he means beam

[remote bobcat]

i was refering to the beam

[deep hare]

i think

[agile field]

ah right, so the beam does do something and isnt just visual

[remote bobcat]

yes

[agile field]

i rly thought my game was broken when the rock killed me at first

[remote bobcat]

the rock also doesnt kill you

it dismounts your ass

[agile field]

ah

either way i didnt make it

during prog its objectively good hold damage (this is objectively bad)
i disagree, wanna have another 20 minutes of convo about it?#

lmao

lets not, but i do have a question actually thats on my mind. i got the stone idol and i read ppl use it for example in the opener cds > charge+trinket > rampage > bs. but what about situations in m+ where the tank is still pulling, do u guys press the trinket first and then cds for example or how are u handling it?

[remote bobcat]

you're gonna summon all the avengers with this one

[remote bobcat]

people click it during cds

we dont click cds during gather

[agile field]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-marvel-gif-24087980

[cobalt relic]

FUCKING

FINALLY

LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[agile field]

so u kinda chilling waiting for the mobs to gather then u press cds and then idol?

[young swan]

HUGE

[remote bobcat]

gg

[zealous pier]

How

[remote bobcat]

we dont wait we prep

[young swan]

idol -> cds, cds dont effect idol so its just wasted time

[agile field]

ok so run me through a scenario maybe so i can follow your thinking

[remote bobcat]

enrage, whirlwind stacks

[fleet pecan]

idol while charge

[cobalt relic]

g fkin g

[dapper goblet]

you own swordish

[remote bobcat]

uh oh

[dense fulcrum]

u guys doing less dmg since the patch? or im tripping raid mostly

[remote bobcat]

its always the mage players ..

[remote bobcat]

its all you

[agile field]

u know i mostly just yolo it and it works pretty well. but sometimes as im ww'ing mobs and gathering rage waiting to unleash all my shit on the gathered trashpack a fear creeps up in my mind "what if i just procced both my weapon enchants during the gather phase and they are now gone for the actual dps phase?"

[agile field]

u mean like why holding dps or dps cooldowns is objectively bad always?

[remote bobcat]

holding cooldowns isnt always bad

[zealous pier]

Holding dps

[fleet pecan]

im lost on what to get with my dinars, playing mainly m+

[remote bobcat]

holding dps is bad

[zealous pier]

Holding CD’s isn’t bad

[remote bobcat]

dimmy ring maybe?

shrugeg

[sullen dove]

God damn it man a convo where xeos and xan are yapping makes me wanna ready it but already scrolled up for like 3 minutes to only go an hour behind and it’s still not stopping

[dense fulcrum]

idk im doing way less dmg in nexus king for no reason

[agile field]

Holding dps doesnt have to be bad. It shows advanced understanding of a boss encounter and u gotta go against what u usually want to do ie blast. sometimes game designers make u walk right a hundred times and then make u walk left and ur brain doesnt like it. dont have a better example

[remote bobcat]

#fury message

this is start

[remote bobcat]

Just because something is intentional doesn't mean it's good and you need to differentiate between the two.

[agile field]

well yeah but good is subjective so

[remote bobcat]

Also holding damage is purely problematic due to balancing

its a numbers problem, always

[agile field]

well its like when a melee gets targetted by nexus king claws he doesnt wanna stop dps but he needs to move the mechanic out, right? so this friction between him wanting to blast but having to play the mechanic is game play

[dapper goblet]

was a great battle

[remote bobcat]

We only have to hold damage to cheat cooldown time in order to have cds during the hardest part of a fight. If it was balanced properly then this holding of cds is easily avoided

[sullen dove]

lot of good gifs

the penguins especially

[dapper goblet]

ty

[remote bobcat]

Nexus king claws can be outplayed.

and even so

it doesnt target everyone

and this example only affects melee

holding damage affects every single player

[zealous pier]

Getting a mechanic and having to move out is different than having to sit on your hands to force something to line up better.

[agile field]

i only remember you spamming bait gifs

[dapper goblet]

all i need

[remote bobcat]

https://tenor.com/view/jarvis-gif-18431405264343358934

[junior gale]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/468099222424518656/1004846604068602007/caption.gif

[agile field]

well if thats the difference between a guild who kills it and a guild who doesnt u could say its a skill diff

[zealous pier]

That’s not my argument

[remote bobcat]

also what ends up happening is that everyone holds

because of how the meta works

[fresh creek]

full gear lol aside for some small upgrades

[remote bobcat]

dimmy trink? ring?

ANGERY

[fresh creek]

no dimmy kill 😢

yet

[remote bobcat]

yet

[fresh creek]

started progging last week

on him so pretty sure ill get first CE 🙂

[remote bobcat]

ohh perfect

hey darkxros

whats ur opinion

[agile field]

forcing something to line up shows advanced gameplay knowledge, no?

[remote bobcat]

on p1 dimmy being able to parry you

how would you feel if dimmy parried your 3x mfe execute

Thinkge

[fresh creek]

can he parry you never notticed 😄

[remote bobcat]

ur lucky

[agile field]

ahahaha

[remote bobcat]

or just unaware

[fresh creek]

but would feel like shit 😄

unaware def

[agile field]

wait until they tell u m+ has no parry

[zealous pier]

Sure let’s go with that line of logic, my rebuttle is why do you consider that form of skill expression good?

It’s not fun

You don’t get to do anything

You just sit there.

[remote bobcat]

Liquid Max said it's bad design to hold damage and I'm a sheep so I agree with his take

NerdClown

[agile field]

sitting still showcases a skill: restraint. u rly wanna press ur buttons and blast, but its better for the bossfight not to

[zealous pier]

I’ve never liked holding damage on any fight lmao

[remote bobcat]

restraint is not a healthy skill

within wow fights

[fresh creek]

think holding dmg is only needed for the top 1% gamers

thats are proggin3

[sullen dove]

There’s no way these mfs gotta be wrong

[remote bobcat]

everyone trying to get CE this tier has to hold damage unless you wanna have a lot of p3 dimmy pulls

[sullen dove]

literally hear her speak

[fresh creek]

with low gear

[sullen dove]

Oh wait no

[dapper goblet]

i dont play with game sounds

because i'm not a freak

[sullen dove]

ultraxion in dragon soul

Thought u meant vexiona

yea ultra def a dude

[agile field]

maybe in this case for dimmy holding dmg is bad. im just saying holding dmg isnt always bad

[remote bobcat]

@fresh creek you hold damage during prog specifically because you have so much gear that you fuck up your timings - because that gear increase is not enough to make p2 p3 free but good enough to justify holding damage in order to make p2 p3 free

ykwim?

[agile field]

its like when u finish a trashpack and u could blast more cds so that u are first in the meter for that pack, but overall better is to hold them and unleash everything on the next. friction between what u want to do and should do

[remote bobcat]

bro has a grandpa voice with dragon sound effects edited in

its quite funny

[zealous pier]

Holding CD’s is different dude

[sullen dove]

yes

[remote bobcat]

holding CD's is not the same as holding damage.

[agile field]

holding cds is same as holding dmg, just u hold back more or less dmg

[remote bobcat]

..no

[agile field]

some raidleaders shout at you for auto hitting for rage while they call a dps stop

ppl have different opinions on the issue

[remote bobcat]

The issue is this ait

we have multiple classes that rely on cycling cooldowns

they get punished

unnecessarily

plus

going afk is not the same as showing restraint

[agile field]

but prob u guys are right in the sense that the scaling is just so out of whack that that is what causes the dps hold to be necessary as opposed to that being intentional

[remote bobcat]

this is always the reason to hold damage on bossfights

there's a phase that requires an unnecessary amount of damage to overcome so you end up artificially extending a previous phase in order overcome that next/last phase or w/e

[agile field]

i mean idk ive done it before holding dmg to achieve something in the encounter, its just part of the game for me, i dont sit there evaluating which class gets punished more for their warcraftlogs parse

[remote bobcat]

and its always due to balancing

[remote bobcat]

progging and parsing are two different things

we are talking prog

the issue isnt how it affects your parse but much rather how it affects your gameplay

[fresh creek]

parsing in this stage doesnt mean anything anymore to tbh

to parse u need to get the setup of your entire group

getting pi getting to ignore some mechanix

[remote bobcat]

Holding damage can be an artificially large punishment on top of the already pre-existing anti-fun that damage holding entails

[fresh creek]

for instance loomi

not needing to swap

is a deepz increase for your parse

[remote bobcat]

PI helps but is not required, it's less than just getting good procs

[agile field]

raidleaders constantly ask people to do stuff that "isnt fun" like play mechanics more or less correctly

or speccing into ST while aoe would give them more dmg for their parse

[fresh creek]

talking more bout the ignoring mehanix part

[remote bobcat]

once again that's individuals, not the entire raid group having to turn their back to the boss

Plus then u have those 3 idiots still pushing buttons

which frustrates everyone else

[fresh creek]

1 of those idiots 😄

joking 😄

[remote bobcat]

It's extremely artifical friction which only exists to be in bad faith or as an unintentional result of game design

[agile field]

progress guilds swap in and out players or classes or ask one player to play several classes so they just swap char. its all to serve the greater good of progress so to speak, holding dmg is the same principle for the greater good of killing the boss

[remote bobcat]

yes and once again

some of these things are good

some of these are not

intention does not mean its good

[zealous pier]

This is also a complete apples to oranges comparison

Idk man. If you like those mechanics then more power to you I guess.

[agile field]

i just mean there's always something u dont wanna do but u gotta do in the game. if there wasnt the game would be pretty boring. like play legion remix its just a walking simulator cause that one 740 maxgeared guy almost oneshots every single boss by himself

so u introduce all kinds of friction

so sometimes it sucks such that u can feel a bigger contrast for when it doesnt suck and there youll be happier

[zealous pier]

We aren’t discussing any of those other things. This is strictly about holding damage

[remote bobcat]

there is friction that delays the dopamine hit in order to make that dopamine hit even harder.
Then there is friction that just pisses everyone off.

Having to turn your character around and go afk simply pisses everyone off.

[zealous pier]

We aren’t complaining about swapping to another character

[agile field]

i think holding dmg can be good. im not saying now for dimmy it is, im speaking in general. we just turned the game into a gcd locked dps meter frenzy

[zealous pier]

Name a fight where holding dps adds to your gameplay experience

[remote bobcat]

a good friction is having a decent amount of complexity that rewards you for having both good understanding of how your character plays AND having good preparation, both in terms of information and in terms of gear. Having to hold damage ignores both of these completely. your player skill becomes irrelevant.

also holding damage isn't a skill

being the one to find out that you have to hold damage - that is a skillful display of wit

[agile field]

yeah but when it works u achieve something good, ie that the intermission clicks in how you want that is your reward for doing something u at first didnt like doing so much

[remote bobcat]

but everyone after?

pure frustration

[agile field]

maybe your bar for being frustrated is just a bit low tbh

[zealous pier]

Again this didn’t answer my question.

[remote bobcat]

There are levels to frustration. if something doesnt frustrate someone a lot but the only thing it does is frustrate them then that's still pure frustration