fury

[undone flower]

(I use crit)

[limber oar]

Generally yes, but also sim it

[jade cipher]

crit sims higher for me but most of the fury warriors on warcraftlogs have that nature damage thingy

[edgy widget]

yes you're using crit

WCL doesn't show the item correctly, you'd have to look at their log and see what buff/event they're getting

[jade cipher]

ok that explains it

[limber oar]

Damn execute high dps button what a time to be alive

[glad coyote]

lol

[undone flower]

I think you still don’t execute on cd, only sudden death

And mfe

[edgy widget]

correct, that's what we said earlier - the SD triggered Slayer's Strike is what bumps Exe's priority up, not the +10% damage buff

[jade cipher]

i like our current tier SD Weak aura tho

really like it

[undone flower]

Still use it, but change conditions if you want the sounds, I agree it adds flavor/fun

[jade cipher]

combined with the bloodthirst one and fury rotation feels good

[quiet geyser]

I dunno, i feel like SD being prio'ed feels much better tbh

[inland flame]

I mean if you're gonna have a proc it probably feels better to actually want to use it

[quiet geyser]

Exactly

[undone flower]

RB resets

[inland flame]

Shhhhhhh

[edgy widget]

Yeah if it changes, it'll just go down to 1 or 2, so you'll hear it that much more often!

Bloodthirst is p downbad though, that one might just junk entirely

[jade cipher]

lets all just be happy that we are done with current tier tiersets

so many times in dungeons i get arms 4 set proc on 3% of mob remaining hp

[inland flame]

Fury had a tier set this tier? I didn't notice.

[undone flower]

I forgot what current tier set do after 1 week into the season

[jade cipher]

yeah on fury you dont notice but on arms you get fucked over really fast

and i play ret and its the same shit

[inland flame]

O ya making a WA to track the Arms bonus was the worst thing I've done for my mental in this game in a long time lol

[fading sky]

What are sd conditions in season 3 for fury?

Insta send?

[clever path]

TWW season 1 pre nerf fury was gonna be their prime, but was stolen from us, ppl where getting mad

[fading sky]

100%

Super duper bursty

[jade cipher]

dude even pre nerf we werent that strong, you just nuked mobs in the raid

i played m+ and i never felt op

[fading sky]

I mean

We were rly strong

[undone flower]

it lasted 3 days, so i wouldn't say i got stolen tbf

[fading sky]

True power was in heroic dungeon werl

Week

[clever path]

That’s what short sighted ppl was complaining about and got us killed for the whole xpansion

[jade cipher]

nuking small mobs on a boss that later got removed from Logs anyway was never op

[echo junco]

S1 we padded damage by killing adds instantly

[fading sky]

Basicly

We were ret paladins

[clever path]

But they are pink and we are brown

[fading sky]

But y ofc

[jade cipher]

Not really no, it was only good in that raid scenario based on timings, in m+ was still in gutter

i rememmber it vividly

[fading sky]

Ofc roar + of + avatar + of

Will be to good

[undone flower]

removed then added, then removed again x)

[fading sky]

Fury was deffo not gutter in m+

[jade cipher]

only part that i would call fury op was Tww prepatch in Df

[fading sky]

Before nerfs it was

Almosr metaish

[undone flower]

i still have no strong opinion on wcl choices of S1, first boss, rash and ansurek (ansurek i kinda agree)

[fading sky]

But tbh fury was prob a bit to bursty because u dominated low keys

[jade cipher]

i still firmly believe odyn's fury is a needed button

[fading sky]

100%

And freeing it from avatar

Should make it fucl

[jade cipher]

just remove avatar already

[clever path]

But there is classes like that already, look at Ret and MM , ppl cant dmg mobs on those brackets

[fading sky]

Instesd it died

[jade cipher]

the most lazy cooldown design on the planet

[fading sky]

M8

[jade cipher]

has 0 synergy with the class

[fading sky]

Avatar stayd

U can leave

[jade cipher]

avatar by far is the worst cd of all classes

[fading sky]

Its 100% warrior

Doesnt matter

Its ours

[jade cipher]

and its really really lazy

[fading sky]

Its oldschool

We turn big and we fuck

[jade cipher]

change it then, make it interactive

[fading sky]

Whats not to love

[undone flower]

they could merge avatar and reck imo, execept on ovinax pull, i only pressed my macro in TWW

[jade cipher]

20% damage buff rofl

[marble pilot]

Hey it gives 2 charges of blast

[jade cipher]

not to all specs

[fading sky]

Well arms warrior is layers upon layers of buffs

So avatat is awesome

[undone flower]

don't say avatar is awesome

[fading sky]

It is

[jade cipher]

Avatar has no synergy with how the class plays

[undone flower]

it is only prot thing

[gilded pawn]

The upside it lasts very long

[undone flower]

ONLY prot likes avatar

[gilded pawn]

But yeah

[fading sky]

U turn biggrr

[gilded pawn]

Very boring

[marble pilot]

Avatar has been here since like warcraft 2.

[fading sky]

Like visually perfect

[sour frigate]

Blast avatar blast best combo

[fading sky]

And in arms i rly dont wsnt more shit to interact pr traxk

[marble pilot]

Can it do more or something exciting sure. But its more warrior than odyns roar spear or onslaught are

[jade cipher]

no one likes spear or onslaught either but we are playing a class from vanila with only change being heroic leap

[undone flower]

at least it gonna help for those 5 blasts in a row

[edgy widget]

20% damage was a lot at one time, it's just been power crept

that said, the Torment talents also exist for a reason, and shouldn't just be blithely ignored

[jade cipher]

my point is i want our cooldown to do something like you know rouge shadowy blades, make a rotational impact

rather than a flat buff

[sour frigate]

[edgy widget]

Again, Torment talents exist

[jade cipher]

they are torment alright

[sour frigate]

Torment is turbojoke this season

[edgy widget]

yeah casual +50% uptime on two major CDs, turbo joke

[undone flower]

it made me think OF capstone giving ww stacks is just useless with that amount of TB

[edgy widget]

it's kinda useless even without lol

[jade cipher]

but they balance your damage around that, the class in unplayable without it but how interactive is it really?

[edgy widget]

the free enrage/ww is nice, but it's never been particularly strong

[sour frigate]

yes but odyns torment felt better

due to being actual burst

[edgy widget]

pretty sure they balance Rogue around Shadow Blades too...

[marble pilot]

As they do for all classes?

[jade cipher]

thats my point all along, why not a fun rotation altering cooldown instead of flat buff that makes you gray

[edgy widget]

and no, the class isn't unplayable without the torment talents lol; they might be stronger than the alternative, but it's definitely not unplayable

[marble pilot]

You could be a balance druid doing obscene dps during cooldowns and less than tank dps outside them instead.

[edgy widget]

also Reck does alter your rotation

[undone flower]

it is QoL improvement OF giving stacks, i do like the sequence it allows

[edgy widget]

Yep, the main benefit is supposed to be the +10% OF damage, it's just not enough to be worth the talent point (then again, OF itself barely is atm)

[clever path]

Fury it’s just doomed on 5 men content

[edgy widget]

Fury is kinda pumping M+ atm

[clever path]

That’s the bottom line

[undone flower]

and if the talent only did 10% i would shame blizz with that

[inland flame]

People are freaking out because we can't overtake specs that are still actually broken

[formal ravine]

"Freaking out"

We've done worse

[undone flower]

ppl want to be meta / meaning being at the top of a tierlist (not the raid one)

[open wigeon]

I just want to be useful

[edgy widget]

I just want people to not be dumb, but that's way too much to ask

[marble pilot]

Nah gotta top all the tierlists. raid m+ and pvp. otherwise class is trash

[undone flower]

yes but 90% don't care about raid

from what i read, the biggest complains

[marble pilot]

Also if someone else loses fun so I gain fun thats a plus

[gilded pawn]

no no you don’t get it, 5 target cap=dogshit unviable

[undone flower]

bc they would not complain that much when i vibed on the whole raid, W Blizz

good raid tuning

[orchid dagger]

No one cares about raid tuning if they don't raid

Duh

[marble pilot]

Really think 90% dont care about raid?
Is m+ but no raid the largest playerbase now?

[sour elbow]

https://tenor.com/view/dumb-huh-stupid-idiot-gif-5042504

[undone flower]

pvp.

[orchid dagger]

Wouldn't surprise me

[orchid dagger]

You right, I'll catch a -50% pvp only nerf for just breathing

[clever path]

Fury players have been so abuse that they are happing just getting out of the bottom and being mid for once

[marble pilot]

If I had to guess the majority is heroic raiding with m+ on the side. But I have no idea if thats true or not.
No one pvps except bahsac

[undone flower]

my big bet, 80-90% of playerbase are solo players, so ofc m+ is their biggest content, or casuals stuff

[marble pilot]

Majority is probably like weekly mount collectors lol

[orchid dagger]

If you bothered to go look in pvp chat, they all rerolled

This class is dogshit

[marble pilot]

Never will. Havnt cared about pvp since arenas came out. AV is when pvp was peak. All downhill from there

[clever path]

We have to aim to the top, give us a 30 sec bladestorm with 100% dmg increase, brez, lust, lay of hands, we can wield now 3 weps with our other extremity

[orchid dagger]

BuT tHe RaId TuNiNg iS oN pOiNt

[clever path]

I’m not cooking here?

[edgy widget]

the largest playerbase is actually people who resub, play through most (sometimes not even all) of the campaign over the span of a couple months before they remember to unsub again before the next patch

[marble pilot]

I believe that. I guess a better question is largest active playerbase.

[edgy widget]

they're active, just not for 6 hours a day

[undone flower]

more like 3-6 hours per week

[edgy widget]

but yes, insofar as endgame content goes, M+ is likely overtaken raid, though it's important to remember there are a lot of levels of M+ and extremely few get anywhere close to "meta"

[marble pilot]

Active as in like 5-10 hours a week. Unsubbed isnt active imo

[edgy widget]

you're presuming they all sub and unsub at the same time, which isn't how it works
when staggered out, that subset of players as a whole is still very active, just due to the sheer numbers of them

that's how most games work though, people come back when there's new content and leave when they're bored of it

[undone flower]

i just read it, BS is already 20 sec cd now with high roll + everyone has a BR

i kinda like the big gamble on gally pull, when i bs twice the shield gambling i'm gonna have BS back for the adds x)

[marble pilot]

Well obviously.
But as far as people that are playing 5-10 hours a week. What is the breakdown. I doubt we have a real answer.
Curious how much is just lfr raiders vs +2 m+
Or normal raiders vs heroic raiders.
How many are doing like +7s vs 12s
How many just log in for vault chores and weeklies on 3 alts then log back out till next week

[edgy widget]

yeah I already responded to that - obviously there are more M+ players, but the M+ player base is also very broad

[marble pilot]

I assume mythic raiding playerbase is a bit smaller than it was in previous years. But I could be baised just cause I dont mythic raid anymore.

[formal ravine]

The vague estimate is 5% at best

But that's across the entire bosses not for CE

[marble pilot]

Like I know some people that play way more than me. But its just alt hopping and collecting. Never done a single m+ or raid above normal.

[undone flower]

from memory there was 1 or 2 million keys done per week in whatever expansion first week, a quite large portion of player base, don't do keys at all

[marble pilot]

1-2 million per week sounds kinda low to me. Seeing as each person can do multiple.

[undone flower]

and there is like 6 million players (EU+NA+OCE) / low number guess

[marble pilot]

Though it is 5 per run so can sorta x5 that number. Then divide it by repeats.

[clever path]

I was suggesting a 30 secs duration bladestorm lol, I’m joking around

Being stunned for 30 secs tho

[open wigeon]

Mostly play to get 3k io and done, or not even that. At this level meta is useless, maybe easier to get groups, but powerwise whatever

[undone flower]

it was raider.io stats, sorry it is extreme vague memory, it was a season of DF i think

[marble pilot]

I also no some raiders that never do m+ or the reverse. M+ that refuse to raid.
Be cool if Blizzard gave a full breakdown at some point.
Feels like the game is balanced for raid but you could argue it should be balanced for m+ if its the higher playerbase.

[marble pilot]

I believe you. Just fun to think about where the playerbase is and how it compares to what I as an individual prioritze in game.

[undone flower]

there is AN option, they play and prio other games, if you think a regular player can do more, well a regular player loves EVERY gaming games

[marble pilot]

Fair. Im playing more nightreign than wow at the moment. Itll swap once the next season comes out.

And the only reason im active here is cause im at work. Hardly talk to you guys when im home.

[undone flower]

yeah just imagine "This game comes out / or is this regular person thing", if he has 10 hours of gaming (which is a lot), he can spend 1 on wow and 9 on others

[vernal laurel]

Think most of peoples complaints boil down to that it is not fun to play your class correctly and still not see a reward for it (I.e, doing similar damage as other classes on meters).

A majority of players dont really care for the intricate design of a spec, just the numbers that they see that they are doing

Which is totally fair, it is a game and the easiest to use feedback tool is a dps meter (which a majority of the playerbase do use)

[gilded pawn]

Ya

Exactly

All the complaints about design disappears

When you are topping meters

[vernal laurel]

Does not really matter if you are doing a +2 or a +20, you use the same in-game tool still

And without being envious about the positive treatment some other specs might receive more frequently, Fury warriors have been staring at that damage meter in M+ for the better part of 3 expansions, and nothing major has really changed

And it is totally valid to be sad and even a bit angry about that

[tiny estuary]

Well said

[edgy widget]

perhaps, but a lot of this also comes down to having a very narrow-minded view of what "reward for it" means, as well as a jaded sense of balance

[edgy widget]

this statement alone kind of confirms that

Warriors had several highs over the last 3 expansions; they may not have been strictly meta, but acting like they've been bottom barrel since BfA is frankly ridiculous

even right now, things are not nearly as dire as people keep on trying to make them out to be

and even if it were, the projected gain going into next season might as well be called meteoric... and yet people are still sitting here qqing about Warrior being bad lol

[dense elbow]

I think a huge majority of ppl care about being sweared to hell and getting death threats for doing low DPS on the giga AoE pulls that, usually is, the first pull of the dungeon.

First impression matters a lot, and when people see DPS meters where Hunter and BDK did 20-30m DPS, and the warrior did 10-15m DPS - that is what they will remember. Even if at the end of the key it averages out to 6m 6m 5m

So, when the perception people get is that A) when the runs fails, what they see is Fury miles behind on DPS meter, it is an easy target to blame. B) If the runs fails just barely, it is an easy thing to point at and blame, finally C) even on prio damage, the lead isnt that big - especially as you go higher and you brings mobs unto bosses to create funnel.

So a complaint is usually based on the DPS meter, and because of what is above and probably so many other factors bound to it, that DPS meter complaint is quite valid.

[edgy widget]

think a huge majority of ppl care about being sweared to hell and getting death threats for doing low DPS on the giga AoE pulls that, usually is, the first pull of the dungeon.
This is not a thing. Maybe it happens one out of a million runs because yes there are unhinged people in life, but using it as an example as if it's in any way a remotely common concern is extremely disenginuous and I'd advise you to find better arguments

[limber oar]

Archi is saying, in a very nice way, dont be an idiot doomer

[dense elbow]

I just report em, and move on with my day. It is what it is. People are extremely jaded at times.

[restive peak]

If you're still complaining about fury after the tuning yesterday, you're in a wild place mentally.

[jolly marten]

whatever you say we are still capped at 5 targets

im joking dont jump on me plz

[restive peak]

And in DF we had 3 seasons of being just outside the meta/very competitive, and very strong in raid

[limber oar]

People saw buffs and complained. I swear its damned if you do and damned if you dont with blizzard tuning to some of these people

[glad coyote]

i can't wait for halls of atonement to be back

[jolly marten]

to be fair the huge buff was in the tier set.. not in the actuall kit of fury warriors

[olive wraith]

There were still so many doomers yesterday

[restive peak]

It's just the childish syndrome of thinking everyone deserves to be #1, the odds of being #1 with 30+ specs is ridiculously low, and will never impact literally anyone in here except a select few

[tiny estuary]

Just watched an Izen video- quote “fury still shit in m+)

[olive wraith]

I’m eating good

[jolly marten]

dat 10% ww buff

[olive wraith]

Meat cleaver buff is big

[restive peak]

The WW buff is nothing, the meat cleaver buff is quite useful

[jolly marten]

yeah also dat, i give it to you

[olive wraith]

Unironically decent for slayer

[limber oar]

Improved ww got buffed 10% (18% better than before)

[edgy widget]

see you may be joking, but its things like that which people read and don't comprehend, then repeat - this is why discourse gets so bad

• half the people are shitposting
• the other half are just repeating what they saw after watching half a dungeon on stream
• and most of them don't have any first hand experience to begin with

[restive peak]

On top of the fact that the top specs ALL got nerfed, and not lightly

[inland flame]

tuningtalks.jpg

[jolly marten]

a little elitism but whatever yeah

[olive wraith]

This part. Fdk 12 and mm 10

Definitely brings them back down towards the mortals

[jolly marten]

ppl are stupid only i know the truth

its kinda like religion now that i think about it

[limber oar]

People comparing themselves to a fdk and hunter that are clearly going to be nerfed was astronomically concerning

[vernal laurel]

While I would not say that most people are getting death threats, being blamed for low dps (When just looking at the dps mters) is however not that uncommon. Its just a bit sad/unfortunate

[limber oar]

Considering that compared to the “balanced” classes we were actually looking decent in raid

[restive peak]

I mean half the rage is based on details screenshots from a few days ago, which are obviously irrelevant now

[edgy widget]

You'll note I didn't say anything about that
but also, life is much too short to live in fear of stupid people

[limber oar]

Ye

[restive peak]

And/or 30+ death runs with, no offense, very mid players on specs they don't play vs like azsuna

No shit the rando warrior who pushes 12s got giga smacked by him

[olive wraith]

Oops

[edgy widget]

in my experience, the people who piss and moan about meters in keys only do so after something else goes wrong and they're looking for something obvious to blame

[coarse nest]

Warrior must be on top!!

[olive wraith]

Any online game there will be trolls who death threat and say end your self

While it doesn’t make it right, it’s not explicit to someone having low dps

[inland flame]

I'm over here just happy I can feel good in keys as Fury without too much pressure to go Arms like aight that's enough for me I'm vibin atp

[edgy widget]

I mean seriously, think about all your M+, how many times have you had a successful clean run that missed the timer by just a few seconds or even a minute, not due to mistakes but simply due to lack of damage?

I bet you can count it on one hand across the entire season

[jolly marten]

in my experience ppl want to play the game and have fun.. noone ever said i want to do reasonable dps, im having so much fun being middle of the pack

[edgy widget]

if your sense of fun has to be measured by a meter saying you're better than others... I'm not sure you actually enjoyed it all that much to begin with

[restive peak]

At the end of the day, this is an MMO; make friends, since 99% of the people playing this game will never touch the content where the meta truly matters anyway, or even get close to it

[dense elbow]

Topping meters is fun tho

I am pretty sure a lot of ppl will agree

[junior oyster]

if your fun is strictly numbers, get a graphing calculator

[restive peak]

Like noone week 1 while farming gear for raid week is sitting their feral friend on m10s because he isn't boomkin, and if they are they're dogshit friends and you should make new ones

[jolly marten]

you dont want to focus too much to the meters but they play their role

[edgy widget]

you grossly missed the point, my dude

[dense elbow]

Nah, it just sounds like you are trying to push the fun factor from it completely

[restive peak]

Topping meters has so many factors contributing anyway; did you get RNG'd 5 mechanics or 0, did someone else kill you with a mechanic, did you RNG some low rolls or high rolls etc

[edgy widget]

then why did you not respond to the point, if you understood it, instead of finding something else to argue about?

Obviously people like feeling superior to others, that's a pretty basic part of humanity

[dense elbow]

Just saying, it goes the other way around as well

[vernal laurel]

Coming back to this, I would say that a majority of the playerbase has a what you would call "narrow minded" idea of rewards, that being seeing yourself doing good on the dps meter. And correct me if I remember this incorrectly, but fury has been capped to hitting only 5-targets with its main rotation since shadowlands, hence not really being able to do similar dps to others on the meters since then (on average, outliners always exists)

I agree that things are not as dire right now as they have been in the past, absolutely.
People can still feel bad that their main concerns with the spec has not been addressed, and I think both you and I can agree that blizzard has handled the communication about the direction they want to take Fury badly.

[hoary agate]

Just be good and top meters np

[edgy widget]

Fury's cleave has been capped to 5 targets since long before Shadowlands

The version of meat cleaver as we currently know it has been capped at 5 targets since its inception

[dense elbow]

I mean, our main concern is being addressed no?

[orchid brook]

honestly, if I'm sitting at the bottom of the meter, I enjoy what I'm doing less - thankfully in m+ at least I'm not playing high enough keys to where the meta actually matters (14-16 tops) and I still get invited, but it absolutely diminishes the experience

[jolly marten]

there never been a case where a spec is boring but its toping the meters and not popular.. the opposite tho happens all the time.. the fun aspect of the gameplay is relevant but the toping the meters is always true

[orchid brook]

so far it's always been skill issue and I get better until I'm topping but I can see why people get frustrated

[junior oyster]

If I'm at the bottom of the meter, my team's doin pretty good and I'm happy

[coarse nest]

I don’t think it’s strictly “fun” but I do think it’s fair to say that seeing yourself perform better than others is commonly felt as a good feeling in some way or another.

That’s why everyone pisses and moans when they’re performing the best they can and they’re still below others

[edgy widget]

of course you're enjoying it less, it goes right back to that point about "people always like feeling superior to others"

but now you have to ask yourself - are you finding the game/activity fun, or is your enjoyment solely derived from that sense of superiority?

[undone flower]

I think never depleted bc damage, the farthest I went was bfa 28s and it will still 0 mistakes and it is timed

[orchid brook]

it's both for me, I like feeling like I'm at least not the worst player in the group lol

[undone flower]

Except damage checks on bosses

[vernal laurel]

With the most recent tuning pass, yes they are acknowledging thay fury is behind in sustained Aoe. This is a very good step in the right direction.

[jolly marten]

the obvious answer to when your spec was most fun is always when it was strong (er)

[edgy widget]

you also have to remember that for every winner there is a loser - you fundamentally cannot beat someone else without them in turn inheriting that feeling of lost enjoyment

[dense elbow]

Indeed, good changes are coming and likely more tuning too

[olive wraith]

Nope. S3 Df was the most fun I’ve had in the last 2 expac

[jolly marten]

never heard it was doing shitty dmg but i enjoyed more than ever

[coarse nest]

This is exactly the reason blizzard cannot win

[junior oyster]

I have played meta specs and absolutely hated them despite their performance becasue they weren't fun

[coarse nest]

If we’re the best melee now all the others piss and moan

[edgy widget]

So yeah, you find the game more "fun" when you're on top, that's great for you

but you can't be on top without someone else being on the bottom, so while it's better for you it's now worse for someone else

ergo on an overall design level, that is not a solution - you're just shuffling the problem around from one person (or class in this case) to another, with the end result being exactly the same

[orchid dagger]

Finally

[dense elbow]

It is also more fun when you aint consistent bottom

[tiny estuary]

Is B-tier the ceiling for fury in m+

[junior oyster]

I play warrior cause fun. I'll let the numbers where fall where they fall

[olive wraith]

Throw out tier lists

[jolly marten]

😄

[edgy widget]

I mean Fury isn't and hasn't been, so that's just a bad argument

[orchid brook]

yep 100%, and I try really hard to make sure the person inheriting that lost enjoyment is not me 😅 fwiw this hasn't really been an issue for me lately and I don't think it will be next season, I'm not HoF or title pushing so it's almost always just skill gap in my content

[marble pilot]

Wonder where the game would be if combat logging was disabled. No logs or meters at all anymore. And we just had to go off vibes

[coarse nest]

It literally does not matter what blizzard does, everyone will favor the specs that are considered “the best” and everyone else has to endure waiting room simulator

[edgy widget]

acting like Fury is literally the worst spec in the game is another example of how jaded your sense of tuning is. Fury is far from the worst in M+ or anywhere else in the game. Just because you only compare yourself to the top 5 or whatever doesn't mean there aren't 20-something others still out there

[coarse nest]

The solution is to make friends

[olive wraith]

Meta still gets declined btw

[edgy widget]

ofc they do

[jolly marten]

nah. tier lists are tier lists. just account things for what they are not for what you think or want to be

[coarse nest]

Only for higher io meta

Obviously

[jolly marten]

before the recent buffs sorry but it was

on m+ at least

[limber oar]

Wtf LOL

[jolly marten]

and it was an issue

[edgy widget]

no it wasn't, not even remotely lol

[limber oar]

bro loves lying

[jolly marten]

and we ought to be vocal about it

[junior oyster]

Sounds like a personal issue, I dunno

[olive wraith]

They have zero nuance and are often built by someone who doesn’t have depth of knowledge in all the specs

[edgy widget]

and this is exactly the problem with trying to have this conversation

anyway, fun talk - I got stuff to do

[limber oar]

Archi i do not envy your position. You are a saint for dealing with this shit

[jolly marten]

ok i dont know what im talking... Petko put fury as worst dps in m+

didnt know either?

[coarse nest]

The biggest issue I have personally is that blizzard is dead set on these capped specs when they literally have a game mode designed around pulling as many mobs as possible in order to be efficient because you’re battling a timer

[restive peak]

Fury was definitely not the worst spec, we haven’t been the worst spec

[coarse nest]

Like hello people of course the capped classes get fucked a majority of the time

[restive peak]

Petko says shit for clickbait, it’s quite literally how he gets paid

[jolly marten]

Critcake also said it was bad

[limber oar]

And it worked

[jolly marten]

i mean come on

[limber oar]

Bad doesnt mean worst

[restive peak]

It was bad compared to the top specs

It was not the worst

[orchid brook]

out of curiousity, what are we saying is worst spec atm for m+, ww?

[undone flower]

We gotta learn it in few years, when they will turn off readable combat log

[restive peak]

They are different words with different meanings

[south kayak]

What’s the solution if your enjoyment is derived from that sense of superiority?

[junior oyster]

Is it hard basing your opinions on every one else's?

[jolly marten]

petko said litteraly the worst

[dense elbow]

Very likely Shadowpriest

[waxen vale]

tldr if you aint first you last mentality can’t work in a multiplayer game

[vernal laurel]

It was very close to the bottom, and was for several patches

[limber oar]

Petko is a shill

[restive peak]

It was not the worst spec, it simply wasn’t as good as the top 5-7

[waxen vale]

single player games 😄 speedrun or something

[olive wraith]

Dps warrior has same key level completion as meta

[limber oar]

2-3 of which were insanely broken and inflated

@restive peak

[jolly marten]

ok, first you tell us to trust players that are close to meta now dont trust players that are close to meta

decide

[supple fractal]

These kinds of conversations is why we'll never get the 5 target cap removed.

[undone flower]

I like what he is trying, but he is so not good at all at everything he plays

[restive peak]

Petko has nothing to do with the meta

[olive wraith]

?

[restive peak]

Petko is a streamer? He doesn’t even push R1 keys or raid rankings lmao

[jolly marten]

yeah he doesnt know what hes talking.....

[waxen vale]

petko charged me twice for my last dog grooming I had to call the bank

[restive peak]

I’m gonna go out a limb here and say that I, who plays fury warrior to a title level, has a better grasp on fury than Petko, who plays ele shaman

[sour anvil]

Sorry but should one feel good about being 'not bad'?

When you basically see other spec/classes getting a free ride more often than not, over multiple seasons. What's the logic here?

[coarse nest]

Ret and DK can hit a gorillion targets but we better cap fury

[south kayak]

No way!!?

[coarse nest]

I just think that’s dogshit

[restive peak]

Before these buffs we were weak, we are now just outside the meta, which is VERY STRONG

[vernal laurel]

Petko plays all the specs, and then after his testing puts them in a tier list. He at least tries to test everything pretty fairly.

[undone flower]

Yeah, I like his tiktoks, but currently the all specs ptr, it is something awful to see

[jolly marten]

lets ask @mossy fox how bad was fury warriors before the buffs?

[restive peak]

He plays all of them to their absolute capacity, yeah?

[olive wraith]

But does he play them at the same level as title pushers

[vernal laurel]

But yeah, he is not great at all specs obviously

[south kayak]

As soon as this ptr cycle starter, I see his shorts everywhere lol

[restive peak]

I quite literally just said we were bad before the buffs, and even then we weren’t the worst

[vernal laurel]

Does he have to if his list is mainly for people doing weeklys?

[restive peak]

So we’re DEFINITELY not the worst now

[jolly marten]

who was then?

[restive peak]

Balance means nothing for weeklies

[gilded pawn]

I don’t think he even plays all of them at the level of hekili

[south kayak]

Some poor sod

[olive wraith]

Doing weeklys you don’t need a tier list

[south kayak]

Doesn’t matter

[waxen vale]

why is your main measure of enjoyment derived from superiority? if thats your goal be fotm. if you enjoy the playstyle and the game itself you simply compare within your own class and lower your blood pressure

[limber oar]

Wasnt ret pretty dog?

[sullen dove]

chat how do I buy m+ title

[gilded pawn]

The best spec for weekly is bm hunter

[limber oar]

And aug

[olive wraith]

Weekly can be completed with single button rotation

[sullen dove]

since fury is so bad and can’t get it on its own

[olive wraith]

And any spec

[vernal laurel]

Very true, but people feel bad about playing an undertuned spec in weeklys as well

[undone flower]

When I saw the fury one a month almost ago, I wanted to hang from his gameplay

[south kayak]

DM me (don’t)

[restive peak]

WW monk is literal dogwater, pretty sure all 3 lock specs had to be buffed, ret was in the dumpster, ele is extremely week

[coarse nest]

The real thing people should be wishing for is “a reason to bring a warrior to a key” because right now we ain’t got a damn thing special about us.

[sullen dove]

Ele is weak lmao

[restive peak]

There are no undertuned specs for weeklies

[limber oar]

Dont tell him the truth he cant handle it

[edgy widget]

grow up and recognize the world doesn't solely revolve around you?
lots of people have main character syndrome... but few people are actually main characters lol

[restive peak]

You can literally do a 12 week 1 with 5 specs that don’t synergize together

[dense elbow]

Why are we talking about weeklies?

[vagrant dagger]

if you get invited

[olive wraith]

5 druids no diff

[restive peak]

Because he said Petko tier lists matter cuz they’re for “weekly players” or whatever lmao

[junior oyster]

This asks much of the folks in here lol

[south kayak]

That’s fair

[restive peak]

There is no tier list for mediocre play; I’m sorry, it hurts people’s egos but it’s true

[edgy widget]

truth is often the hardest

[waxen vale]

technically, most of the time our world does revolve around rampage

[limber oar]

My title/HoF ret friend was dooming out about how dogshit the class was before this past tuning patch. He called ret “on aug tier” with how shit it was

[restive peak]

The game will never have 110% balance as is, it certainly isn’t going to be balanced around misplayed rotations and positioning

[olive wraith]

Ye I didn’t realize how down bad ret was

[undone flower]

Yeah no tier lists matters, meta will be decided couple weeks after release from Rio score, and eventually change with .5

[south kayak]

They reduced their abundance of falling hammers, I think. Which hit ‘em hard

[fleet parrot]

Petkos videos are for clowns. Queue short vid showing big dps spike with a stupid arrow pointing to it.

[jolly marten]

thats why we are still capped.. cause you think that we are fine. everything is fine, we are totally fine

[restive peak]

No, we’re capped because it’s the design; I can disagree with design and still know it doesn’t mean we’re weak

[jolly marten]

im gonna screenshot this and send it to him

[olive wraith]

Our opinions don’t change Blizz tuning

[south kayak]

^

[fleet parrot]

Fill your boots

[jolly marten]

most of the times..

[south kayak]

This

You can’t do anything about it

Why bother

[undone flower]

I acknowledge he is farming dollars tho, it is content creator time rn

[restive peak]

I think the 5 cap is also stupid, I would rather be balanced around 8, but we are absolutely in the top 6-8 specs if this patch shipped today after yesterdays changes

[olive wraith]

Me, a random 1 in 10mil player complaining to Blizz won’t do shit

[waxen vale]

aint top 5? unplayable

[jolly marten]

to be fair tho.. its hard to filter the feedback.. i kinda get them... i saw on wowhead a guy saying.. why nerfing fdks again?

😄

[sour anvil]

A part of the enjoyment comes from being competitive in addition to a nice playstyle and the class fantasy.

That goes for all spec and classes. 'Not bad' compared to the fotm meta shouldn't be the standard, shouldn't be even a thing.

[south kayak]

Not top 1? Delete game

[coarse nest]

Isn’t it so fun and exciting feeling when you do 10m dps to a pull and your two teammates do 15-20m dps

[junior oyster]

This is actually how 90% of the kids in here seem to think

[waxen vale]

[olive wraith]

Dps warrior is completing top key levels

[coarse nest]

[olive wraith]

Do you beat them on prio? Boss damage?

[jolly marten]

its like sleeping with your gf and saying that she had fun.. well you slept but did you made her come? its a different thing

[fleet parrot]

All classes are good enough for 99.9% of top keys, it’s the same old thing - optics.

[waxen vale]

buhh

[south kayak]

Huh

What

[junior oyster]

whatreyoutalkingabout

[coarse nest]

A reasonable amount to justify the difference? Nah that’s just people coping with our lack of damage

[olive wraith]

Not relevant whatsoever

[junior oyster]

I think the dude just wanted to suggest he might've once had relations with another human

[restive peak]

The obsession with overall also highlights the cognitive dissonance people experience; if we don’t win overall but do great prio, we are dogshit. But when fire and arcane are meta for various seasons for that exact role, mages are broken and busted and them being 3rd overall is still too good.

[olive wraith]

Do you help in some way complete the key?

[undone flower]

Yes, truly what it shows, they want to be one of the 3 god chosen meta dps, which you never bet on happening, depends on other specs etc

[inland flame]

https://tenor.com/view/txt-fighting-beo-beomkai-fighting-beomgyu-mad-huening-kai-mad-gif-24698210

"So guys, how is Fury doing right no-"

[south kayak]

That’s the analogy he came up with lol

[restive peak]

If this patch shipped tomorrow, fury would be able to fill Arcanes current role fairly well

[fleet parrot]

Lust

[restive peak]

If you think that’s bad, you must think arcane is bad on live right now, aka you have brain damage

[vernal laurel]

Bro, no lust

[coarse nest]

Not in a way that other melee specs couldn’t do it better

[restive peak]

Lust is irrelevant and would change nothing for us

[south kayak]

No it’s not

[olive wraith]

It would be cool if we had legit funnel

[restive peak]

And is not the reason mage is so good

[south kayak]

Irrelevant

[waxen vale]

it’s arcanes role to fill? unplayable. needs to be furies role

[jolly marten]

nah.. too much.. being a close alternative for that role its more accurate

[olive wraith]

You can’t switch a fury for ret in phys comp

[dapper goblet]

https://tenor.com/view/hell-no-oh-no-hu-what-popcorn-gif-12325900934325026511

[undone flower]

You have shamans with phys comp

[south kayak]

Ret isn’t physical damage

[gilded pawn]

Lust would be nice in weeklies

[south kayak]

Are you guys playing this game or what

[gilded pawn]

But nothing game changing

[bitter palm]

holy strike is physical no

[waxen vale]

it is to their brain

[bitter palm]

phya+whatever

[vernal laurel]

I have guildies arguing for this saying that rets utility matters more than 5% attack power.... I obviously do not agree

[gilded pawn]

Physical+holy I think

[limber oar]

This conversation just goes to show that ptr tierlist are low form content and that propagands is insanely strong and people let it dictate their opinioms so easily

[inland flame]

I will say that Lust makes pugging a bit harder sometimes but it's not that bad, and its worse for me because I normally duo queue with a Ret bud.

[coarse nest]

The trick is to just play the spec everyone invites

[south kayak]

Overall, rets damage is barely physical

[undone flower]

You can get title without lust

[bitter palm]

idk ret ngl

[quiet breach]

has the m+ meta best comp ever been a comp that pulls only 5-8 mobs per pack?

[jolly marten]

its a thing that we are kinda relevant now and its another thing that we are meta.. come on ppl.. get your shits together, dont get too cocky

[south kayak]

Divine storm is holy

[sullen dove]

https://tenor.com/view/monsters-vs-aliens-bob-funny-shocked-shook-gif-4861342645729883333

[undone flower]

I know someone you didn’t have lust in his team in DF S1

[bitter palm]

what if we could lust twice

[gilded pawn]

Ofc

[restive peak]

What if we could lust 4 times AND tank at the same time

[bitter palm]

or aoe cr

[gilded pawn]

But it’s just like a weekly qol

When you are carrying 3 fresh 80s

[vernal laurel]

While I might not agree with you entirely, I get where you are coming from. Would be fun if Fury could be in the spotlight for once!

[jolly marten]

i was here when warrior was offtank in dungeons

[dire vigil]

What if battle shout halved the cooldown of lust outside of raid

[restive peak]

Honestly lust should become a button in 5 mans teams have access to but that’s a different discussion/opinion

[coarse nest]

Explain where prio damage is relevant this season and not just a bi product of absurdly tuned mass aoe in the god comp?

[waxen vale]

the only problem with mage is endless defensives. can cycle all day

[restive peak]

Mage is the only true hero class, obviously

Has been for a long time lol

[waxen vale]

based

[jolly marten]

if fury warrior was for a meta spot we would know it alrdy.. trust me.. i have plenty of free time nowdays and watch a lot of streams

[waxen vale]

ok ill trust u

[undone flower]

Your spotlight is the full on bet on : brew being meta tank, prot being less meta than brew, arms being less meta than fury, phys comp being the meta, or WE are broken smh

[limber oar]

Unemployed gamers rise up

[jolly marten]

the meta havent shaped at all but we have some outliners

[coarse nest]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/148898695696482305/1395535909008703509/image.png?ex=687acd98&is=68797c18&hm=4da37e3d4400abd1e63916da3067dc6dc78b3c6e801d57b5fcfff9aabd866469&

[waxen vale]

what were outlining

[coarse nest]

This tells you all that you need to know

[dense elbow]

is it a lie tho?

[coarse nest]

Mage is literally the most broken shit ever every single patch

[limber oar]

Mage’s have the best PR team in the game

[coarse nest]

And they think it’s performance is average

[dense elbow]

And if it is every patch then?

[bitter palm]

ngl ive seen quite a few phys groups waiting for warrior this season

[dense elbow]

That is generally average performance for them

no?

[restive peak]

No one knows the meta yet because balancing isn’t even done yet 🤣🤣

[waxen vale]

that conmment gets overblown. its actually reasonable. the balance is to average.. it suggests that a lower than average spec should have a stronger tier set

[sullen dove]

https://tenor.com/view/mygsgifs-mygsgif-yoongi-yoongi-solo-suga-solo-gif-24573258

[jolly marten]

fdks, mm hunters still very strong, arcane mage pretty much unchanged so i dont think why they will be out of the meta

[radiant dirge]

Mages actually organize complainrs when they get a 1% percent nerf. Warriors pull the "erm akshually this is a step in the right direction so stop complaining" when their 4p gets buffed from a 1% dps increase to 1.4%

[bitter palm]

mage s tier

[dapper goblet]

how you gunna hit me with 2 gifs

[jolly marten]

the tanks are brew, prot warrior, vdh so far

[sullen dove]

boutta get a third

[dense elbow]

All we know is that if Fury Warrior becomes "week 1 meta", lord have mercy, for the nerfs will hit us for months on end, even after ppl passed us in week 2.

[sullen dove]

🟨

[jolly marten]

as for healer disc priest outliner

[bitter palm]

kalamazi said warlock c tier

[hard widget]

Kalamazi knows how to sandbag

[neon silo]

There is pple who think blizzard gives a fuck about communauty feedback's and conplain ?

[olive wraith]

Phys comp….

[waxen vale]

how do we get kalamazi to play warrior

[hard widget]

Just like boomies, tettles always sandbags too

[bitter palm]

he needs to be studied

[restive peak]

Kalamazi is the ultimate sandbagger and whiner dude

He’s the final boss of crying

[undone flower]

https://tenor.com/view/city-wok-fuck-you-gif-11714290743512336470

[neon silo]

There is the war discord to challenge to top place of final boss crying

[jolly marten]

not gonna happened, its wasnt certain even with the 8% mystic touch.. now its even more uncertain

[hard widget]

All warrior content creators need to just stop saying "its okay i guess" and just say we're dog like all the other classes

[jolly marten]

this

[bitter palm]

critcake put arms in s....

[olive wraith]

Bro it’s completing same level keys as meta. On live

[undone flower]

You are a content creator mf

[restive peak]

Phys comp is literally competitive with the current meta comp on completed keys 🤣🤣

[hard widget]

I live to sandbag warrior

Dont worry

Im ultimate sandbagger

[restive peak]

Bro stop watching Petko and shit, your brain is rotted

[jolly marten]

this "its ok i guess" its killing me...

[waxen vale]

we ain’t even close to final boss in crying. its just that our crying is low iq. its not quantitatively large. just dumb

[olive wraith]

Wdym

[bitter palm]

cant form my own opinion sorry

[olive wraith]

It’s literally the same level as meta

[vagrant dagger]

bro is coping from a position of 5 man premade who wont decline him for hours

[hard widget]

Season hasnt even started yet

Its not meta

[undone flower]

And I live to say we are fine, we are rivals

[jolly marten]

like this is what every gamer thinks before logging in... lets play something ok i guess

[olive wraith]

Meta is only okay?

[dense elbow]

To be fair, even if it was his own opinion, you guys would keep doing this whole song and dance trying to undermine it to an almost fanatic degree

It be how things work in here

[limber oar]

Honestly i know Pandela is just rage baiting but im here for it this is content

[olive wraith]

Idk I think he may be genuinely misinformed

[vagrant dagger]

its okay i guess

[neon silo]

The funniest part is the 15rth rank world dps on MM + is a warrior

[jolly marten]

im happy that the community recognise me now

[hard widget]

People that want to informed, will look for info

[limber oar]

If he truly believes what he is saying i am praying for his offspring

[dire vigil]

I play the no enrage, sword and board fury build to make sure we don’t get nerfed

[undone flower]

Would happen if you are 6th to last dps spec

[olive wraith]

Every single dps has lfg issues

[jolly marten]

enjoy me while you can.. soon i will start working again

[hard widget]

Sign up to my key so i can be ur 2843th decline 😎

[sage ridge]

He probably just watched Critcake still get gapped by fdk and mm and thought that was how it was with every spec

[dense elbow]

Fury does have a disadvantage in the LFG tho, more so than many. It got the stigma of being bad.

[dapper goblet]

erm as a non freak who doesnt push m+ what is the worst class in keys

[hard widget]

Right now?

[coarse nest]

It does not matter what spec you are if you’re not the 3/5 favored specs you get declined simple as that

[jolly marten]

it stinks nerfs, thats why

[hard widget]

Probably affli lock or something

[neon silo]

I main survival being declined if my daily life, i must tag as MM and switch spec during timer

[bitter palm]

based

[hard widget]

That would be an insta ignore list kekw

[olive wraith]

Is surv actually bad though

[jolly marten]

whats that smell.. it smells like nerfs in here.. you stinky fury warriors

[bitter palm]

i remember getting kicked for being arms in sl m+

[olive wraith]

Or just mega gapped by mm

[hard widget]

The amazing fury gameplay where u spam whirlwind

Goated rotation

[dense elbow]

You would ignore someone for playing surv in a weekly key?!!

Toxic

#cancelJeventes

[bitter palm]

nah it was before that

[undone flower]

Man I would like to be able to do that, but switching from prot to fury is slightly more noticeable

[neon silo]

Yep ignore a guy who actually doing fine in key, till 17 + you can do whatver comp , but hey don't expect to be accepted if you can't accep other specs

[bitter palm]

with mbg arms was good as well

[olive wraith]

Arms had ww spam not long ago

[hard widget]

Idc if they play survival, but dont swap in timer.

[dense elbow]

Wow, toxic

[young swan]

idk that this is true, sure it wouldn't propel us into the meta, but it would make the pugging experience way less miserable than it is, and has been for the past 2 years

[dense elbow]

rude too, poor surv

did nothing wrong, but being indecissive.

[hard widget]

Bro honestly if someone swaps spec in timer

[coarse nest]

In SL I met this Druid who would apply as boomie and then quick swap to feral when countdown started

[hard widget]

They are intentionally fucking ur key

U make a comp for a reason

[young swan]

based

[coarse nest]

Usually gapped the other dps too

[dense elbow]

Jeve putting ferals on ignore as well?

[hard widget]

I like cats bro

[dense elbow]

even worse, Jeve hates cats!

[hard widget]

xd

[dense elbow]

Nah bro

[neon silo]

the change between survival to mm in a compo ? what buffs differs so i know ?

[hard widget]

Its a very different damage profile

[bitter palm]

4x more damage

cause mm is funny

[hard widget]

I dont want a surv in rookery

[coarse nest]

People pugging keys are way to hard up for what’s meta

[hard widget]

I take an mm in rookery tho

[iron portal]

In SL I just spent my free time flying on kite with Boomie and killing people with convoke

[neon silo]

yep for 14 / 15 it's game breaker ? oh no surv time 17/18 in whatever compo

[coarse nest]

9/10 times you will time the key if you simply live it

[dense elbow]

We need an ingame class that transforms into a dog, so I can call Jeve a dog hater as well

[coarse nest]

Damage is no longer a major issue

[restive peak]

Yeah I guess irrelevant is a bit dramatic, it wouldn’t make us a meta spec though

[hard widget]

Lmao

[restive peak]

I still maintain lust as a 10m CD team cooldown would fix a lot of shit

[dense elbow]

What if, drums?

[restive peak]

Outdated ability to be exclusive

[dense elbow]

[restive peak]

Or drums should be buffed to equal, yes

[neon silo]

The thing is u believe a spec instead of a player, how many trash balance and arcane iv met ? doing less then a survival or fury ?

[hard widget]

Linc

[restive peak]

In my opinion anyway

[bitter palm]

warrior not having lust is crazy ngl

fantasy wise

[restive peak]

Jevvy ❤️

[young swan]

i dont think anyone that makes the argument for lust is every arguing it would make us meta tho, there might be a few lil brainlets but i feel like most peoples argument is just that it fits fantasy to a tee and would generally make life easier

[hard widget]

Maaa maannn ❤️

[undone flower]

There are damage checks tho, like bosses or some « kill it before it kills you » pack

[olive wraith]

It’s me. I’m a trash arcane

[dense elbow]

Low key issue, is irrelevant issues o7

[restive peak]

Nah my comment was to a guy saying it would make us meta 😛

[bitter palm]

very loud yell everyone goes crazy

peak

[dense elbow]

Lincc, I beg, dont procc a utility circle thing

[hard widget]

Nowadays spec > player. (on high level anyways)

[young swan]

was it the same guy thats been doing his own testing and coming to the same conclusions days later

[neon silo]

You play only in 19 + i guess

[undone flower]

We are so close

[hard widget]

yup

[restive peak]

Probably lol

[undone flower]

[neon silo]

average player play in 10 / 14 ranges, and this is particular elo is declined land for non meta spec

[restive peak]

Ok I’m afk for a few love you all

[neon silo]

that's the issue

[dense elbow]

Hello fellow kids, Fury warrior needs some utility, am I right?

[frozen berry]

Yeah warrior should have heroism effect, makes sense from flavor/lore/class perspective. Good to see you back around Jerventes btw 😄

[undone flower]

Nop

[bitter palm]

aoe brez

[hard widget]

Yeah but everyone in low keys copies high keys. Its a community issue

[young swan]

and its not like you ahve to give it to prot either, theyve shown they can have different class trees between specs

just make it a choice node with rally for dps specs

[olive wraith]

Ah yes a like minded gentleman. Warrior has no good group help

[frozen berry]

Maybe if we get a Bannerlord spec/hero talent tree emphasizing shouts/banners and the whole battlefield commander/tactician aspect of warriros /shrug

[dense elbow]

I too agree, warrior need many banners

[undone flower]

The utility circle

[hard widget]

Xan made a good talent rework for warrior

[young swan]

or completely break the game and give warrior a new lust separate from haste lust that gives crit or something

[hard widget]

They need to make that happen

[bitter palm]

holy

i fw this

[dense elbow]

That rework didnt have OF in a good spot, so I say no.

[frozen berry]

I want Conqueror's Banner back from SLs lol, I loved having to make a macro to yell at people to not run from my banner when I popped it as a Necrolord warrior lol

[olive wraith]

Warrior should shout brez, lust, aoe silence, grip, yell a sound barrier that negates magic damage/effects

[young swan]

mine?

[hard widget]

Funky is hating, it was goated level

[inland flame]

Bro just invented Skull Banner (kinda)

[dense elbow]

Maybe

[olive wraith]

I think vers would be better

[young swan]

vers would be broken, critting is fun

[fading sky]

Of should be baseline!!!

[dense elbow]

Warrior should grant 30% Versa when we use rallying cry

[young swan]

my OF owned wtf

[thick fossil]

@sudden tusk We were watching Crit do some PTR keys with the newest buffs. Still got gapped pretty hard.

[olive wraith]

30 is a bit crazy 🤣

[dapper goblet]

trusting xan on a talent overhaul

🤪

[frozen berry]

I mean, they should just make Aspect of the Pack baseline for Feral druids again.

[fading sky]

By?

Hopefully not frost dk🤣

[young swan]

hey ur class got buffed arent u excited

[olive wraith]

Oh no Fdk still good? Shockedpikachu

[undone flower]

Im wet

Bc buffs

[dense elbow]

Sorry, ye, 30% versa on a 3min CD is a bit low. Make it 75%.

[fading sky]

I mean a 12% nerf is significsnt

[olive wraith]

My god

[thick fossil]

hunter and DK

[fading sky]

Just play streets!!!

[frozen berry]

Is boomie still broken af even after nerf?

[fading sky]

Many small pulls

[olive wraith]

They were crazy over tuned my guy

[dense elbow]

They dont funnel as badly, no. Warder

[fading sky]

Fdk still big y

[dapper goblet]

https://tenor.com/view/monsters-vs-aliens-bob-funny-shocked-shook-gif-4861342645729883333

[young swan]

ret paladin on the rise!

[olive wraith]

Afaik they’re not gods anymore

[young swan]

from bottom 3 to bottom 10!

woo!

[dapper goblet]

still worse than warrior

some how warrior bad though

in raid

[young swan]

doesnt even matter cause feral was just as broken and didnt get touched

[frozen berry]

I think they're scared of accidently making Fury like early TWW with our burst being so good lol

[thick fossil]

@sudden tusk ...... possible nerf....

https://tenor.com/view/traitor-gif-21942304

[fading sky]

Bottom 10... not bad top 20!

[thick fossil]

[dense elbow]

With us doing half the AoE DPS of others (thane tierset procs aside), I wouldnt be worried for nerfs

[fading sky]

I mean fury raid will be top 10

[dense elbow]

who cares about the raid?

[dapper goblet]

2 warrior tier

[fading sky]

Me😅

[dapper goblet]

(again)

[dense elbow]

Minority ppl content

[frozen berry]

I mean, I hadn't died so much to aggro so much since Titan's Grip was introduced back in WoTLK lol.

[dense elbow]

boo

[young swan]

if nothing changes (for us) it'll prob be closer to like top 5 tbh

[dense elbow]

M+ is the majority

[fading sky]

Sweet

[sudden tusk]

https://tenor.com/view/horse-eating-gif-25793804

[dense elbow]

Can you rather say we are high mid?

[fading sky]

So slayer st thane in multi target

[olive wraith]

Ye as per usual

[dapper goblet]

https://tenor.com/view/imabesavingthatforlater-imabesavingthat4later-imabesavingthat-ima-be-saving-that-ima-be-saving-that-for-later-gif-16548514061732001937

[young swan]

https://tenor.com/view/goku-rules-rule-1-dont-make-me-mad-rule-one-dont-make-me-mad-gif-8390529366396374891

[fading sky]

I mean if we have 1 workin raid spec im fine

[dense elbow]

Ngl, that made me cringe

gj

[fading sky]

M+ ill just stop at 10s

[young swan]

that is literally the point

[south kayak]

Lmfao

[dense elbow]

that is why I said gj

[fading sky]

Well not 10, prob like 3k

[olive wraith]

I mean don’t we always have 1 working raid spec 🤣

[fading sky]

I mean atm

We are pretty poo

[dense elbow]

To be fair, every spec works in raid

[young swan]

pre-thane buff, fury was in the upper half on every raid fight and peaked at like top 5 specs (based on ptr data) the only fights where it "suffered" were the fights where you wouldve run thane if it didnt suck so much dick

[fading sky]

Logs wise

[coarse nest]

New prio has less kaching surely

[thick fossil]

You know what you did.

Being all positive and shit. lol

[fading sky]

I want my 3 different kachin sounds

[ornate gust]

https://x.com/lofibanshee/status/1946008216124395769?s=46

jordan 🖤 (@lofibanshee)

Here's a cumulative bar chart race of # of .1% M+ Titles by Class, since titles started in S2 SL.

Data Source: @RaiderIO_WoW

X · Jul 18, 2025, 12:44 AM

[dense elbow]

If you raiders gonna be like "m+ weekly, everything is viable", I am gonna hit you CE raiders with "all specs are viable" back Heck, every single build is viable, including SMF

[olive wraith]

Some guy yesterday said that smf was 75% damage nerf

[dense elbow]

That is why we need the 75% versa buff

see, balances out

[olive wraith]

Kek

[frozen berry]

Maybe just make SMF good at ST fights? High autoattack dmg and attack speed? /shrug

[olive wraith]

Doesn’t need to be good

[young swan]

it should be bad everywhere

[olive wraith]

Do you wanna farm 2 sets of weapons?

[sullen dove]

https://tenor.com/view/guroteske-emo-wolf-gif-26967313

lycaon

[frozen berry]

wtf?!

[olive wraith]

Is that moonmoon

[young swan]

no its me

[thick fossil]

Monk was absolutely OP in M+ back in Shadowlands.

[ornate gust]

It looks they are better than our class in all seasons 😅

[dense elbow]

I hard disagree. I think SMF should get another 10% MS modifier, and as you run it stacks up to 120%.

SMF needs its niche

and this is it

[thick fossil]

In Shadowlands, yeah. TWW, not so much.

[sullen dove]

Only for old content 50% ms buff sure

I am not keeping up 4 different weapons in a season

smf deserves no rights

[dense elbow]

SMF in new content got 240% movementspeed

In PvP, that would be kinda fun

lets be real

[thick fossil]

SMF should be cosmetic.

[olive wraith]

Arms should use 1h

[dapper goblet]

Hop on mop classic monday and you can play smf

[frozen berry]

Eww, no. Alot of us remember plate rogue Fury lol.

[dense elbow]

Arms should use a lance, and be mounted.

[olive wraith]

Maybe glowy yellow effects too?

[dense elbow]

No?

[frozen berry]

So Glad Stance?

[dense elbow]

No, arms warrior - is man at arms

That is why it is called arms

[olive wraith]

Rename to hands and play fist weps

[sullen dove]

🟨 🗣️ 🤺 🔇 🥱 💤

[dense elbow]

note speaking fencing muted yawn sleep

[thick fossil]

You mean Classic? Yeah, that or before Titan's grip was a thing. As it is now, there is no reason for it. SMF gameplay loop does not change, just does less damage with less stats.

[frozen berry]

Tbf I could see palidans getting to use polearms and shields, some sort of crusader/jousting aesthetic...

[frozen berry]

No, BC was prime plate rogue lol. Those fist weapons from SWP were o.o

[olive wraith]

Warrior should get 2h shield before pally

[frozen berry]

Sure

[dense elbow]

The heck would a 2handed shield be, like a braum shield?

[sudden tusk]

Gotta try man. If I'm doomge all the time it's no fun

[thick fossil]

Yes, I know. That was still before Titan's grip. lol

[thick fossil]

Yeah, I get it and I do love the positivity. I do hope you get lots of views.

[sullen dove]

🟦 👶 🗣️ 🟠 🪓 🚫 📉 🥈 🐀

[sudden tusk]

Burnicsmish

[sullen dove]

madpieceox

[dapper goblet]

madox for yellow

[sullen dove]

madox for yellow

[frozen berry]

TG was a funny time when it was introduced, even with blue rep weapons the first raid I went into I did SO much dmg was constantly rippping threat and dying lol

[sullen dove]

🟨 💢 🐂 ✅ 🟨 ⚔️ 🚫

[frozen berry]

*went into raid

[dapper goblet]

@young swan hey man why is madox not yellow

very helpful

handsome

blackwidow otp in marvel rivals

[sullen dove]

powerful m+er

plays with missmarvel (feral druid icon)

[dense elbow]

Note angry oxen green check note weapons cancel?

[sullen dove]

reliable title acquirer

home grown gangster

[undone flower]

And it is noob trap for fury loot spec vaults

[dapper goblet]

no money spent

[dense elbow]

Nah, it is blizz helping to nudge players to go prot

[sullen dove]

✅

[dense elbow]

it aint a trap

it is a blessing

[sullen dove]

self made champion

[undone flower]

Home groomed gangster

[sullen dove]

pause

[vernal laurel]

I just hope for an uncapp to 8 targets. I would trade a lot of things for that specific change.

[dense elbow]

Would you trade away our ST lead?

[frozen berry]

Agreed, capping is anti fun and shouldn't be a thing... esp as a hard cap.

[dense elbow]

I believe this issue is more a factor of our uncapped toolkit, especially CDs, not doing enough heavy lifting. The 5t meatcleaver really doesnt matter. We could be 8t MC, and still do half what others do on mass AoE. Nothing changed, really.

[thick fossil]

Meat cleaver can stay at five, it's everything else that needs to be brought up or back up to 8.

[dense elbow]

OF should become 8t tho, that is for sure. Then they can start adjusting it from there, make sure it is the AoE tool.

[vernal laurel]

I agree, but blizzard finds this problematic as last time they brought up our CDs (Odyns, bladestorm etc), we fullfilled our niche to well and got taken out back and shot

So they do not see that as an solution forward

Altough I also would like our CDs to matter

[thick fossil]

A niche that doesn't exist anywhere?

[dense elbow]

What do you mean by that, Osa - as in noone does it, or that it isnt being used anywhere?

[vernal laurel]

Other classes can be bursty to of course, but we did it the best at the start of S1

[vernal laurel]

If we were uncapped right now, this hour, were would we find ourself?

[thick fossil]

Yeah, cause there are just sooooo many 5 target cleave fights. That we totally own on.

[vernal laurel]

There usually are a pack of around 5 mobs that need to die quick in a raid encounter, that is not uncommon

[dense elbow]

Oh, you talking about the 5t niche, not our niche of AoE burst. Got ya.

Yeah, 5t isnt exactly common. But it exists, it is very normal in keys that you fight 5 mobs at time, bosses in particular. ToP got adds spawning in as well, keeping our cleave relevant. Even our AoE burst (albeit weak).

[undone flower]

I think the opposite, 8t meatcleave would be REALLY strong / it’s 60% more targets

[dense elbow]

Sure, it would be strong. But it wouldnt address the issue ppl complain about. That isnt the overall damage at the end of the key

but mass AoE diff

we doing 15m instead of 10m, doesnt matter, if ppl do 30m or more

[thick fossil]

They buffed it to 65%, no way we're getting it bumped to 8 targets now.

[vernal laurel]

I might be misunderstanding, but us being able to hit at least 8 targets would probably bumb us up quite a bit no?

[dense elbow]

never say never, they cant really push it more up, so wider is the more likely knob to use

[undone flower]

Ppl want to have the mass AoE damage profile, that ain’t happening, ever

[frozen berry]

Not doing dmg when I should be able to is annoying to say the least... hard caps shouldn't exist at the least...

[vernal laurel]

Like enough to where we would be very comfortable

[dense elbow]

It would, definitely. What I am saying, it wont affect the scenarios where we are extremely behind on the meters and that ppl point to as the problem.

[jolly marten]

i think we are in a state that windwalker was in the start of season 2.. capped but really blasting in 5 targets, decent in m+ and probably meta for raid

[thick fossil]

Our damage cool downs (Roar, OF, Spear, Ravager, etc) still need buff and caps moved to 8.

I would love to actually be able to call OF a powerful signature ability without it being a meme.

[dense elbow]

Roar is uncapped, but yeah - OF should be 8, I agree. Ravager can remain 5, if it aint already 8, to not step on the toes of Bladestorm.

[vernal laurel]

If the difference is around 1-2 mil now in keys, would us not being able to hit 8 targets with our current tuning take us very close to where that would not be as common?

I think it would

[storm birch]

I’m rather happy with where we are right now. I’d like to see the talents reworked to include the options for more utility and see some power drained from our 4 set and put into our raw thunder blast so that our dmg doesn’t feel so proc reliant. After that I’d be pretty happy

[jolly marten]

Odyn aint that mad nowdays... his fury is low

[dense elbow]

Yes, I said it would matter for the overall. But not the AoE burst moment.

[vernal laurel]

Ok gotcha, I just think that at the end overall is what people are looking at the most

[dense elbow]

Nah, if they did, they wouldnt doom about it, especially not after the changes

[vernal laurel]

And where a lot of the percieved problems come from

[dense elbow]

what ppl look at is snapshots of AoE burst moments and after big pulls

[undone flower]

Yeah just the 65% change is 18% more cleaved damage

No way 8 cap in this economy (which is 60% more targets)

[vernal laurel]

I mean, i think its not really about it being specifically 1-2 mil behind in overal, I think its more about being the bottom of overall

[sterile dagger]

i would rather take 45% and 7 extra targets

[vernal laurel]

Which we might not be if we would be capped to 8

[sterile dagger]

or even 35 and 7 extra

[dense elbow]

Yeah, but the problem isnt being bottom. Problem is we got no moment of glory (and that the gap was too wide, but that is being addressed)

[vernal laurel]

I agree that both things are a problem

Warriors really need a selling point and a moment of glory

[undone flower]

So you would be ok to be absolutely dog shit on bosses with adds in dungeons ?

[dense elbow]

Yep, problem is that ppl often get hyperfocused on overall DPS or key performance. And forget that we are human beings, not bots

It is extremely important to reinforce a good feel

[vernal laurel]

Big guy with two big swords (that can only hit 5 targets while a rogue can dagger stab 8 or more) is not really doing it

[sterile dagger]

how my damage from ww buff make me dogshit on bosses?

?!?!?

[undone flower]

The adds, there are not a lot of bosses with more than 4 or 5 adds

[sterile dagger]

i mean, raid become easiear each week

keys - not

like on last weeks - close to impossible burst adds

because 10 other people do it

[undone flower]

There are bosses in dungeons

With adds

Big momma

[sterile dagger]

if only we did 5 adds pulls whole key

[dense elbow]

Big Momma, then ppl start pulling in adds on top, diluting our AoE DPS on unimportant targets...

[sterile dagger]

that would be nice

but we dont

[undone flower]

So you would do a meatcleave change for ppl doing trashs with big momma ?

I would not

I wouldn’t balance the game around the 0.1%

[storm birch]

I mean in this last raid there was vexxie, rik, stix, bandit, gally. In this rotation of dungeons there’s 1st boss priory, big momma, swampface if you pull crabs in, the 2 target boss floodgate, 1st boss of eco dome and a bit of the second boss. 3 boss encounter on streets. 1st boss gambit. Ara Kara first and last boss. And halls of atonement 2nd boss.

That’s just bosses but there’s def lots of add bosses. Not sure about new raid tho

[sterile dagger]

but blizzard do balance game around 0.1%

[dense elbow]

Thing is, we aint that far off on most pulls. We are just extremely far behind on giga AoE pulls. The 21 target pull, we do a third of what others do. That causes a huge gap.

But overall, most pulls are 10 targets ish, that dies off kinda quickly and turns close to 5 quite quickly.

The buff we got is huge for how Fury works.
(I just stress we also need help on mass AoE too, but that would be CDs)

[silver linden]

Question for fury do you only hit BT when its 80% or higher, or can you use it if nothing else is available

[undone flower]

They don’t do lot of high end m+ balance

That’s just a lie

[dense elbow]

How many keys dont you start off at you at 10m DPS, others at 22m DPS, and you end up at 6m for the ppl who did 22m and you at 5m.

Mass AoE DPS matters a lot for impressions, but on overall dung performance it is kinda a minor issue with huge consequences in community perception.

[storm birch]

Need those ethical damage meters that exclude nonsense adds in packs 🙏🏻

[sterile dagger]

idk what player i am, good or bad
but 1 thing is annoying AF - our target cap. period.

boss damage - could be better, but quite fine

but lack of huge aoe - is an issue

[undone flower]

Yes I was more focusing on giving away cleaved damage tbf, it is REALLY bad for us

[dense elbow]

I get you, but that is how Fury is designed at a core level. I get it can be annoying, but if you dont like that - maybe Fury isnt for you.

Of course, I believe, honestly, 99% of your bad feel with this, would go away if OF got tuned to do double the dam and you had that moment of "Hell yeah, I am pumping!" on mass AoE. Even if the end DPS result was the same.

A lot of it is perception that gets locked to something negative, by the huge DPS gap you observe most often than not early on in a key

[sterile dagger]

dont get me wrong, im not trying to offend you
but this WET STORIES about design is BS

[dense elbow]

wet stories?

[vernal laurel]

Would honestly take a bit more than just Odyns and other cds being buffed, altough that would be nice

[sterile dagger]

we are 1 of literally few handicapped classes

its fact

[dense elbow]

But we are designed around it, it allows us an unique strength that got value

I hope you can see that too

it aint all a negative

[undone flower]

It is something I was afraid to state, maybe you just don’t like meat cleave (core thing of fury), meaning you don’t like current fury

[thick fossil]

[sterile dagger]

its Copium, pal

[undone flower]

You are allowed to not like current fury, it’s just, if you state things, where just destroying the walls of the house would be more efficient

[dense elbow]

What makes you say that? I play a lot of Fury in keys, I might not be the top 0.1%, but I got a solid grasp as what we do well and what we dont.

My most major issues, being overall performance, is being addressed. That is nothing to doom over, even if I am atm unsure if the current buffs are enough in themselves. But, they do address the core issue of overall.

I just hope they dont forget the moment of glory issue.

[sterile dagger]

if you play 10 or 13 it doesnt matter which spec u play

when u trying to push a bit further

its where the problem starts

[dense elbow]

What makes you say I do 10 or 13s?

[sterile dagger]

with "target cap"

[dense elbow]

Where do the problem start, tell me

[formal ravine]

Make that 17

[undone flower]

And. I don’t want to be the mass AoE spec, I prefer other damage profiles

[sterile dagger]

i didnt time any 19 this tier, stopped at resilient 18 like month or 2 ago

but even in 18 gap was huge

[formal ravine]

It's not

[storm birch]

I mean I do 18’s 19’s on fury and from my perspective fury is on a great trajectory. We’re not biS but the outlook is good. Io honestly has nothing to do with it

[formal ravine]

You can do 20s as fury DMG wise

[dense elbow]

Outlook is looking really good, indeed

[formal ravine]

You're not a great choice to pug for sure but you can do 20s

[dense elbow]

Btw, sidenote to ppl dont try to push 19s as Slayer Fury, it... doesnt really work

[undone flower]

When I read the 65% I was glad bc I’m gonna stonks in raid

[dense elbow]

[thick fossil]

I try to stay in the top 1%
The title range shit is way too crazy especially now with Resil keys.

[storm birch]

At this point the thing holding me back from doing 20’s and such is not having a push group so I stopped. It’s nothing to do with the spec. People have run those keys levels on fury np

[formal ravine]

Yuki has been doing 19 and 20 as slayer it works just fine

[dense elbow]

I honestly feel it is kinda lacking - rogues just do what I do but better

But can it be done? Sure

At least I still believe I am gonna rock the last boss in Rookery for all time to come

[formal ravine]

Well the major issue seems to be that majority is playing pug. And pug will always naturally pick whichever spec is easier to time the key with

And it makes sense

[olive wraith]

What was your group make up

[dense elbow]

100% a PuG issue mainly

I wont disagree on that

[sterile dagger]

the issue was - i mainly played solo, people stay for a week or so - and then stop playing

[restive peak]

This season is dogshit anyway, I ain't even botherin

[undone flower]

It is key system issue, trying to chase the tuning rabbit is pointless

[sterile dagger]

usually its phys comp

[restive peak]

The dungeons suck

[dense elbow]

Nah Lincc, you just washed up

[sterile dagger]

but most of the times - rng

[dense elbow]

bad

coming with excuses

[olive wraith]

Warrior is fine in phys comp

[restive peak]

NGL I am a bit washed, spent time passing you in PVP for the lulz and the PVP brainrot killed me 😉

[dense elbow]

[sterile dagger]

if only i had a group

[dense elbow]

zug zug

[formal ravine]

If I am to list my key and I got a 2k warrior and a 2k Boomie. Ofcourse I will pick the one that is better tuned. Because even if the person sucks the spec being tuned better means a higher chance to time the key.

[dense elbow]

I would pick the 2k warrior, cause apparently I am doing a +2

[undone flower]

I enjoy epic and BGs so much, I’m afraid to have PvP disgrace in me

[formal ravine]

Stop being pedantic it was an example

[restive peak]

No joke solo RBG push was fun as hell

[dense elbow]

Come on, you made it so easy

You basically asked for it

[restive peak]

It highlighted how easy PVP is, honestly, but it was super fun

[olive wraith]

I mean key level matters a lot here

[restive peak]

I'll prob do it again next season now

[sterile dagger]

if i would have a group - maybe i woudnt have such an issue

[formal ravine]

No it doesn't FFS it's an example

[undone flower]

I only play unranked, just to hit ppl, no stakes

[restive peak]

Respect dawg

[olive wraith]

If it’s a 10 idc what the rating is we timing it no problem

[dense elbow]

It really doesnt, not to his core point

You chose the better option, if you play to win

[undone flower]

Im a LoL normal game dude

[formal ravine]

Pugs are generally justified to pick the better spec it allows for more mistakes with a better outcome.

[restive peak]

I don't think people realize that every other DPS spec ingame sits the same q time as us except the meta

[hollow juniper]

Are we outdps arms in m+

[undone flower]

I don’t feel the need to add a score to my matchmaking

[olive wraith]

Live or season 3

[frozen berry]

idk man, I think you're putting alot of faith in the pug community lol. Had alot of 10s or even lower not finish, fall apart, etc :p

[hollow juniper]

S3

[restive peak]

That's fair broheem, I wish I could play games that way, I really mean it

I miss when single player games made me feel alive

Now I'm dead inside and need to sweat or not play

[formal ravine]

Story driven action games are too fun dude

[olive wraith]

Dude the amount of times I’ve been the only dps in large pulls or on bosses and we’ve still timesd