fury

[iron plaza]

Stonks

[bitter palm]

but that bladestomr was so much better

u just press it on aoe and it does damage

[edgy widget]

yeah except for the whole running out of enrage part

[iron plaza]

Nah that much damage relying on rng was not it

[edgy widget]

also in what world does current bladestorm not do damage?

[bitter palm]

i was talking about arms

[edgy widget]

oh well you're in the wrong channel boyo

[iron plaza]

Well bonegrinder was part of Bladestorm, so it felt like a strong cd I agree

[edgy widget]

Arms yeah, it needs the Fury treatment and badly

[sullen dove]

mbg ww

[bitter palm]

i played nf dreamweaver in keys with eb mostly cause it was just fun to rip ms perma

[edgy widget]

• reduce it to 4s duration/1m CD base
• that automatically nerfs unhinge
• put say 10-15% more damage into BS to compensate

[bitter palm]

and whenever i pressed bladestorm it fucked

[bitter palm]

ye

its way too long atm

[iron plaza]

Bonegrinder Fury was literally Legion Fury with 110% or sth Seismic reverb lego

WW go brrr

[orchid dagger]

I wonder if we could ever get a choice node for classes where we can pick our SL Covenant ability

Would be hype

[bitter palm]

uncapped aftershock

[orchid dagger]

[bitter palm]

perma knock

with natures fury

[iron plaza]

Yeah you wish

[bitter palm]

then tank moves out

[iron plaza]

For sure gonna happen

[orchid dagger]

5 max, take it or leave it

[bitter palm]

ye lets not bring aftershock to df

but lets bring spear!

everyone loved it!

shouldve brought condemn and put in the class tree

[brittle crow]

i havent been playing attention is next season another season of no fury in keys

[gilded pawn]

spear felt awesome once we had spear CDR in SL

[bitter palm]

make all 3 warriors only useful in exe fuck it we ball

[orchid dagger]

Yup

[sullen dove]

yes

[gilded pawn]

but not at 90s cd

[bitter palm]

and it did giga more damage

on its own

[chilly fractal]

They should replace spear with AA

[iron plaza]

Slayer is literally condemn gameplay if you consume SDs asap

[brittle crow]

need 2 weps and no fury in keys.... arms stonks going up perhaps

[bitter palm]

which u dont as arms

and never will

unless they either make sd broken

or remove jugg

[iron plaza]

Why would you want Venthyr Arms back ?

[orchid dagger]

I mean, if you want to play War next patch the answer is:

H > Rated > Solo Blitz or Solo Shuffle

[bitter palm]

instead of fatality it would be much better

[sullen dove]

venth arms prepatch was peak

[iron plaza]

Like out of all Arms SL versions, venthyr was the worst

[sullen dove]

60% condemn dmg anduin

banner was brain dead what

Hit 1 button oh wow another buff

[gleaming siren]

I thought I really blasted just now

[sullen dove]

that you ignore

[gleaming siren]

then I looked details

[humble plover]

Idk if it was peak

[bitter palm]

necro was the worst but venthyr was cancer too i wont lie

by condemn i meant 100-80

[brittle crow]

pvp stinky..

[bitter palm]

or remove massacre and make exe <20% only

and make it fuck

idk

[gilded pawn]

well people dint want that

[iron plaza]

You didn't play Necrolord as Arms at all in pve, Night fae and Kyrian both are better than Venthyr Arms

[gilded pawn]

so yeah

the community all said no to a massacre nerf

so here we are

[sullen dove]

kyr arms was wack a bit think it fit fury more

Aftershock was pog doe

[orchid dagger]

Reroll then

[sullen dove]

even if the button itself is mid arms that whole tier was just kinda heat

The haste circle tho aware

[iron plaza]

I guess you didn't play fob kyrian Arms then

[signal falcon]

Dropping a fat bladestorm in your elysian verdict was peak

[sullen dove]

20 seconds of kyrian fury mbg spam

[signal falcon]

(or whatever the legendary was called)

[bitter palm]

elysian might

[edgy widget]

Champion's Might

it actually is still pretty fat alongside Bladestorm, it's just hard to use in AoE because of the small effective range

[bitter palm]

just shouldve made it a buff

[orchid dagger]

You just need a good dk to mass grippy... oh wait

[bitter palm]

but blizz in sl was giga alergic to qol

(conduit energy)

(swapping covenants)

[sullen dove]

took 2 patches for the expansion to finally get out of beta

[orchid dagger]

[sullen dove]

9.2 pretty peak

[iron plaza]

CHAMPION!

[signal falcon]

Remember when every melee was capped at 5 targets along with Fury for the first half of the expansion

[iron plaza]

Yeah worst design decision ever

[humble plover]

Yeah cap them all again

[brittle crow]

how do i stay a loyal warrior main in these trying times..

[young swan]

dont

[brittle crow]

im the only warrior in the guild

[edgy widget]

that's easy then, you extort them out of every very rare drop in exchange for your raid buff

[humble plover]

We don't talk about rat players, but demon Hunter is calling. Low / no mover it's a good time to be an illidan cosplayer

[iron plaza]

Pretty much every melee is having more fun than Warrior on PTR

[brittle crow]

sorry archi that 2h is going to the uhdk so that he can burst for 2.7 billion dps with PI

[edgy widget]

works for me

[dusky moon]

Become a Scalecommander

[edgy widget]

lol what?

[iron plaza]

Okay I am gonna be honest I don't see many Rogues

[edgy widget]

how much have you played War on the PTR? Slayer and Colossus are fun af
and the performance isn't even bad

[orchid dagger]

Archi realizing that the plebs pulled back the curtain on the class

[edgy widget]

Rogues are cutting themselves rn

[iron plaza]

Well doing big damage is also fun Archi

[edgy widget]

also wut?

[iron plaza]

Idk how come they nerfed Warrior's tier sets(Slayer and Colossus) while Boomie or Hunter tier sets exist

[orchid dagger]

The entire ptr cycle can be summed up to more people than me dooming over the class

[edgy widget]

War performance isn't even bad

[edgy widget]

every ptr cycle can be lol

[coarse nest]

You could do 5dps and they’ll bring you for the buff

[edgy widget]

literally every single one goes the exact same way

[iron plaza]

Yeah but that is all warrior always is, mid

[radiant plank]

[edgy widget]

it's at least upper middle of the pack right now

[bitter palm]

[orchid dagger]

Mid as usual, if you are lucky

[bitter palm]

we ball

[brittle crow]

thats where you get obliterated by items in mario kart

you want to be at the top or the bottom

[edgy widget]

lmao, no the top on PTR often gets hit first

[orchid dagger]

Also that's only raid performance

[edgy widget]

and the bottom usually stays there

[brittle crow]

yea but being on the bottom means u can complain and its justified

[orchid dagger]

Show us all the M+ players jumping ship

[brittle crow]

complaining about being upper-mid just feels bad

[edgy widget]

its when you come out of the ptr on top that you get obliterated during week 2 tuning

see: season 1

[summer quail]

i always want to be nr 6. top 5 you're at risk, top 6 you're usually safe

[fast mural]

tbf if you are on the bottom half there is a good chance you get buffed in the 0.5 patch

[coarse nest]

[fast mural]

[iron plaza]

Surely that 0.5 buff was very valuable in 10.1

[fast mural]

season 1 is an enigma when it comes to that

[iron plaza]

They literally buffed Slayer and still it was worse for M+ than Thane

[orchid dagger]

Class Changes
• Woyer
• You get fuckall (lol)

[fast mural]

yeah but thats just the warrior lifestyle

[orchid dagger]

Yeah, and people wonder why no one wants to play this fucking class

It's all Stockholm Syndrome

[edgy widget]

in season 1? Thane started off garbo till they giga buffed it

[iron plaza]

11.1* which is S2 my bad

The most recent warrior buffs on live

[edgy widget]

they actually ended up really close, if not for the Seismic bug

[edgy widget]

explains why you're still here qqing

[dense elbow]

My coin to throw into this, is this: Dont compare yourself to the classes doing 10-15m overall DPS in m+ atm, it is very unlikely to last

[iron plaza]

Yeah but Fury rn on live is a raid spec, It's hard capped but does good prio/ST

[orchid dagger]

And only a raid spec

God forbid you try that shit anywhere else

[fast mural]

its good in delves too

[languid girder]

[orchid dagger]

[bitter palm]

hooooly delves

[fast mural]

[iron plaza]

Yeah Fury is the best spec in Delves

[iron plaza]

[coarse nest]

[orchid dagger]

My cumsock could do delves lmao

[edgy widget]

yeah Fury definitely can't do M+

[slim coral]

Assuming blizzard does their correct tuning like they should fury should own this tier

Good fight design for fury

[bitter palm]

good fight design for fury = fury will get exploded (s1)

[orchid dagger]

^

[fast mural]

i just hope we dont have to hold SD like we did for the last 2 seasons

[edgy widget]

all depends on how good

[bitter palm]

just send

[fast mural]

nerfs got me dooming

[sullen dove]

Amirdrassil was peak fight design for furys power

[edgy widget]

S1's problem wasn't that Fury was good, it's that Fury was so good nobody else got a chance to be good

[dense elbow]

I just pray we are weak in raid, so M+ dont scuffed over by raid tuning again

[edgy widget]

to the point that even WCL turned against us

[gleaming siren]

Idk what upper middle of the pack is

[edgy widget]

above average

[gleaming siren]

cause Casters are just 20% ahead again

[humble plover]

Idk I took my monk and dh in there they kinda smack em around too

[orchid dagger]

Meanwhile, as the eternal fury waiting room that is M+

[edgy widget]

that literally is M+ lol what

[indigo quarry]

lets start at the bottom

[proven hornet]

Just add s3 df set to odyns tree and we good

[sullen dove]

Real

[indigo quarry]

and still not get any buff once again til 3 month later

[orchid dagger]

This is another massive issue

[indigo arch]

The fury m+ waiting room is respeccing arms if wanting to be more than a priority bot

[coarse nest]

The damn wizards get to pop off unchallenged every single patch Idk why they have such a problem with Warrior having a turn

[orchid dagger]

Blizzard's in the name, duh

It's not Activision/Execute

[iron plaza]

It's not that you can't play M+ Archi, Hell you can probably push quite fairly even with the worst spec in the game but why play Fury if Outlaw is a better Fury ? It's harder and requires more effort but oh boy is it rewarding when you master it

[tepid cedar]

Well here’s the thing. Yea we can do it. But if ur not home working your keys or have a set group you do have to put in 10x the amount of work. Mainly for the fact that you will not get invited to keys. Which is a pain. And if you have no set group. You time a 17/18 key to go 1 higher. You pug a group out sometimes within 40 seconds keys is bricked and your right back
To doing Hw keys not knowing how many attempts until you get it back up.

[edgy widget]

why play anything if something else is better?

that's a terrible argument

why play outlaw if unholy is better?

[edgy widget]

hate to break it but pugging is like that p much no matter what you play

[olive wraith]

That’s not a spec issue

[iron plaza]

It's not literally that on this matter, Outlaw is fast paced like Fury and is hard capped but has more skill expression

[edgy widget]

if you don't wanna wait in line, make your own group or run your own key

[olive wraith]

That’s an m+ issue

[tepid cedar]

I know we aren’t meta and probably never will be, but damn atleast give me a decent shot at getting into 18-19s

That aren’t my keys

[fast mural]

just make a phys comp

[dense elbow]

I get into 18s Apo

[orchid dagger]

Correction: we can be, we just get sack tapped the moment we are

[tepid cedar]

I do to but it takes hours

[restive peak]

99% of the people complaining about these small gaps aren't capable of playing at the level it matters at anyway; if you play ANY DPS in this game you will sit in queue for awhile, esp if you aren't the direct 3 metas, in fact I would argue arms is probably in the best place we've been for M+ as DPS warr in ages simply because there's a group type at top keys that uses us

[orchid dagger]

We aren't Mages

[edgy widget]

what does that have to do with anything? You said "why play X if you can play Y" but why play Y if you can play Z?

[coarse nest]

Hate to break this to you but it has literally nothing to do with blizzard as far as you not getting invited to a group you apply for

[tepid cedar]

And your eu more ppl play there and you guys ahve a higher skill ceiling imo of player there

[coarse nest]

So many variables effect that

[fast mural]

no, the boosting szene in EU is just bigger

[tepid cedar]

Most NA players are basically brain dead compared to eu

[fast mural]

i say this as a EU player

[restive peak]

This is a personal problem; I find outlaw clunky and annoying, and I find warrior fun, neither is harder than the other realistically since no spec in this game is actually difficult

EU just has far more sales pushers, yes

[tepid cedar]

Forget I said this MURICA BETTER ….

[restive peak]

There are basically an equal amount of top NA+top EU competitive teams

[iron plaza]

Well It's passion and love too if you love X, I love Warrior but it has had barely any gameplay changes after all these years since BFA and you are usually middle of the pack

[tepid cedar]

“Competitive teams”

In general most Na are rookie

[edgy widget]

Warrior has had a ton of gameplay changes since BfA, are you kidding?

[fast mural]

what does that mean ?

[olive wraith]

Seems like chatting hour

[edgy widget]

you cannot with a straight face try to tell me that Warriors haven't had changes in 4 expansions

[indigo quarry]

not sure ton is the right metric

[tepid cedar]

:straightface: we haven’t had changes

[indigo quarry]

shit ton maybe 😄

[hard widget]

I win that challenge

[edgy widget]

wait, which weighs more?

[orchid dagger]

[iron plaza]

Idk if I can agree with that, the core gameplay of Fury has been the same since Fury

[edgy widget]

since Fury?

[indigo quarry]

its just different scale

[iron plaza]

Arms has changed I agree

[olive wraith]

What do you consider core gameplay

[orchid dagger]

Since Legion yeah

[fast mural]

my favourtie time to play fury was Fury

i agree

[edgy widget]

it's definitely had changes since Legion

[iron plaza]

Legion Fury very different from this

[coarse nest]

Warrior still equips 2h weapons the gameplay hasn’t changed a bit!

[edgy widget]

Legion -> BfA alone changed a lot

[coarse nest]

Smh

[dapper goblet]

bfa is when warrior got bad

[orchid dagger]

still

[dapper goblet]

thats just fact

[iron plaza]

This version of Fury you are playing rn has been made since Legion and changed in BFA

[dense elbow]

I dunno, a million DPS or so gap, is quite the gap in M+. Be you in the 99% or the 1%, that is not fun to deal with

but I am sure Arms is doing alright go into #arms and preach the good word.

[queen helm]

Im definitely not up there but I made it to 3100 as purely a fury before finally making an arms build and gear. Its really definitely playable if you push your own keys and have a group. But purely pugging it out is a damn pain for sure

[fast mural]

the rotation has changed for sure
i think people are saying the buttons didnt change

[olive wraith]

What’s the core gameplay

[edgy widget]

if you mean it uses Rampage to trigger Enrage, then yeah

[humble plover]

Legion was also almost 10 years ago

[indigo quarry]

the problem we have as warrior is that with all those change its still stagnant in design.

[restive peak]

I mean that's just personal bias, if you went to EU I promise you'd end up in the same place you are on NA

[quiet breach]

has raging blow ever been a worse spell then current slam in any interation of fury warrior?

[fossil reef]

does the gallywix mount remain at a 100% drop raite until end of expa

or until this next patch?

[edgy widget]

Annihilator lol

[tepid cedar]

I do feel though, by looking at logs

[iron plaza]

Well they changed how Fury does AoE and they changed it's main cd in BFA but pretty much the whole idea of the gameplay is still generate and dump into Rampage

[coarse nest]

Presumably until next expact

[tepid cedar]

Eu has better players in general though

[restive peak]

I mean that's like saying frost/fire are 1mil lower than arcane by 1mil so mages are bad

[edgy widget]

During DF Alpha I created a Rampage-less Annihilator build that just refreshed Rend and spammed Slam

[restive peak]

They have more players actively pushing M+, the top end of skill is not higher

[quiet breach]

was it a meme build or actually competitive tho

[edgy widget]

both, but this was beta so not really real

[quiet breach]

im talking about competitive builds

oh lol

nice

[tepid cedar]

I’m including raids in that statement as well though

[dense elbow]

We wont agree to the point, but hopefully you understand that numbers a lot higher matters. No matter the level of play. It simply makes things easier.

[restive peak]

EU literally lost the RWF bro

[edgy widget]

it was to showcase that the talent tree at the time, which allowed Fury to talent Rend and skip Rampage, was horribly flawed

[iron plaza]

First weeks of Alpha which rend and SoS were busted

[restive peak]

What you just typed made no sense to the context of your initial comment and my response my dude

You're saying fury is 1mil lower therefore fury should be buffed, while simulataneously admitting arms is in the upper echelons

[dense elbow]

Arms =/= Fury

[restive peak]

I'm saying that would be like fire/frost mages saying "HEY WE'RE NOT VIABLE IN M+", everyone would laugh

As they should

[dense elbow]

Frost =/= arcane

[fast mural]

imagine being a warrior and only playing fury

[restive peak]

If you can't play the competitive specs on your class but want to be competitive, you will forever struggle

[dense elbow]

Imagine wanting to play the spec they enjoy the most

[orchid dagger]

^

[humble plover]

Yeah that arms shit is for the birds

[restive peak]

I enjoy fury the most, I don't piss and moan when arms is better for something specific

[earnest canyon]

👋

[fast mural]

if you enjoy fury then you dont want changes to the gameplay right ?

since its good

[restive peak]

I either play fury and eat the hit or I go arms for the content that requires it

[dense elbow]

Lincc, I simply dont agree to "it is so, as such it should be" perspective of balance.

[restive peak]

No, fury is currently a dumpster fire design wise, but that doesn't mean I think we deserve to be #1

[iron plaza]

Like the rotation and the abilities that are your bread and butter; You haven't gotten any interesting rotational ability

[dense elbow]

Noone is saying #1

[edgy widget]

I often lean towards Fury, but actually really enjoyed Colossus in M+

[restive peak]

You don't have to agree but you're on some good crack if you think every spec should be equal in M+ and will be

[coarse nest]

I wouldn’t be bothered at all if the gameplay loop didn’t change for warrior

[jolly marten]

why the f Archi decided to be wow dev lawyer?

[restive peak]

Colo arms made me like arms again

[dense elbow]

I say they could easily make it closer.

[queen helm]

Fury is just way more satisfying to play hands down. You don't need to play arms at all unless you are pushing 18's

[olive wraith]

Specifically though. What do you consider as the core gameplay at the moment

[edgy widget]

wat

[restive peak]

Except they can't easily make it closer without redesigning fury

If they bump us to 8T, they HAVE to nerf ramp/RB

[dense elbow]

Weird, aurabuffs would do it

[restive peak]

If they nerf ramp/RB, we are absolute garbage

[young swan]

they only have to nerf meatcleaver

[coarse nest]

^

[restive peak]

If they buff our 5T dmg via ramp/RB, we become insanely broken for ST

[humble plover]

Meat cleaver has a number attached to it

[restive peak]

We've all bounced that idea around for ages, it's clear they don't want that to be the change

[young swan]

we have like the easiest tuning solutions in the game

they just dont care

what can do

[iron plaza]

Literally the whole idea behind the spec, Arms is classic warrior you generate rage from auto attacks and some abilities and spend it on hard hitting abilities and Fury is like generate and dump rage into your one and only spender

[dense elbow]

Why are we talking about target caps randomly?

[restive peak]

Because the cap is why fury is 1mil overall behind in M+?

[vernal laurel]

As equal as possible in terms of viablity is always the goal though. If Fury was great at 5 target cleave and actually fulfilled its niche, that would make it quite a bit more viable.

[restive peak]

Which was what you started this discussion about...?

[jolly marten]

i dont know mate, fury is indeed in a sorry state and we had another patch with nerfs... whos fault is that? whos the primary suspect? the community? not the devs that make the calls?

[restive peak]

We are great at 5T and prio damage, that's our role

[olive wraith]

99% of classes are builde-> spender

I don’t understand

[dense elbow]

Nah, Fury is behind because of low overall tuning - buff all numbers, number go up. Buff OF and number go up

[restive peak]

People just want their chosen spec to always be giga

[dense elbow]

you dont have to talk about target caps

[young swan]

great at 5t is funny

[edgy widget]

by that logic, they haven't changed most classes

[modest condor]

saying fury is great at 5t in the current season is funny for sure

[coarse nest]

I’ve noticed you toss archi under the bus a few times, just so you’re aware he doesn’t control class design he just theorizes what they give us and makes suggestions which they largely ignore sadly

[olive wraith]

S1 Df ramp wasn’t even top prio

[vernal laurel]

I do not really feel that we outdps any particular other class at that dmg profile, should we not be one of the best specs for that, seeing as we only can hit 5?

[dense elbow]

By the definition many in here use as "fine, good or great", it doesnt suprise me.

[edgy widget]

what are you even talking about?

[fast mural]

Guys frostmage has been using frostbolt since classic I think warrior got more changes

[jolly marten]

never said he controls anything

[restive peak]

We also do very low burst and very good sustained dmg, if you sat in 5T for 2mins with most classes you'd win

[modest condor]

arms does more damage to 5 targets than fury

[vernal laurel]

Maybe, that is not really what we see in M+ though.

[edgy widget]

no but you seem to be trying awfully hard to make me a target for your ire, or some kind of scapegoat for your dissatisfaction with the game, which is not going to go over well for you - just sayin

[iron plaza]

Idk so far the specs that gotten reworked like Ret, Rogues and Havoc have actually changed gameplay wise

[restive peak]

But fury does far better damage to the prio target than arms does

[warm crag]

what if you never press cleave does it still do more damage to 5 targets than fury

[tepid cedar]

Bro as whole we are far from great at 5t and prio

[restive peak]

It's just a different profile of damage

[jolly marten]

i said that devs fucked up with fury, what are we disgusting right now? that the community made mistakes and bad calls, that some ppl dont understand how balance works?

[modest condor]

what if my grandma had wheels

[tepid cedar]

We are getting demolished 5t and classes have caught up to st

[restive peak]

There will ALWAYS be 3 absolute best specs, and 1 at each role

[edgy widget]

I mean even Ret and Havoc play fundamentally the same as they have for years and years - yes there have been some cosmetic changes, a few ability changes, but you can say the same of Warriors too

[olive wraith]

S3 Df we didn’t press rb

[warm crag]

i win due to my hypothetical beating your hypothetical

[indigo quarry]

thats 100% on blizzard for not knowing what niche are even supposed to be and it's sad how they tried to even fix it

[tepid cedar]

Well we don’t fit any role atm

[restive peak]

If you think we're broken until we're #1 at a specific niche, you'll probably never be happy. That's NOT me saying it's a good thing, it's the reality.

[tepid cedar]

We are just here so we don’t get fined lol

[restive peak]

DPS warrior fits a role

The same way mage fits a role

It's just that arcane is the spec for it this patch, and arms is it for warrior this patch

[jolly marten]

i dont even know you, but why cant we agree that yes the community dont know what is good for the game but the devs are making the calls, this is what matters

[humble plover]

Battle shout role achieved

[young swan]

the only role dps warrior fills is buffing other physical damage dealers

[iron plaza]

Well where is that version of Fury now ? Didn't ppl hate it ?

[indigo quarry]

buff Battle Shout plz

[vernal laurel]

I do not think anyone is arguing for us to be 1# at one thing specifically, we just want Fury to be at least great at what its supposed to do

[dense elbow]

Yeah, there will always be a "best", doesnt mean we just got to accept that others are miles behind.

We dont have a niche we shine within, we don't have something to carry your idea of "we are better at something else". All we bring is a AP% buff.

Come on man.

[warm crag]

battle shout buffed from 5->8% just now what the fuck

[modest condor]

i would expect specs that are hard capped to 5 targets to do more damage to 5 targets than specs that are not, and yes i think it's bad tuning if that isn't true. If we were the only spec hard capped to 5t then we should do #1 damage on 5t. We aren't so it's fine that we aren't #1, but the only specs doing more should be other specs with hard caps, which is currently just not true.

[olive wraith]

Some people did. You’re not gonna get a 100% approval

[jolly marten]

are we taking every statement of a random player like me and judging them instead of judging the ppl who make the calls?

this is judgement to the bottom, the judgement should always be to the top

[coarse nest]

I would agree

[iron plaza]

The approval is not even important mate, We had a talent that somewhat changed how the spec plays and most ppl hated it and they removed it

[tepid cedar]

This. 100%

[acoustic seal]

I think Pandela is the warrior dev coming here to just stir shit

[tepid cedar]

If we are going to be behind 20 million in large pulls

[coarse nest]

Why does a spec that dominates on 20 targets also dominate 5

Seems bad

[olive wraith]

It wasn’t most. It was pretty evenly split

[tepid cedar]

We should be ahead by 1-2 mil in st and 4-5mil in 5t

[young swan]

million dollar question

[restive peak]

I agree on that, but even changing that does NOT make fury more valuable than arms in current design for the profile required

[tepid cedar]

To compensate

[dense elbow]

Behind 50-80% on AoE, we better be 50-120% ahead on ST.

[edgy widget]

I assume you're talking about Mythic+ again, so here goes

• First of all, while nobody in here (including myself) has ever said that Fury is exceptional
• Second, despite Fury not being exceptional, you (and many others) seem to think it's a lot worse than it actually is. While it is behind, it is not nearly as hobbled as you seem to believe
• Third, there is nobody to blame. I've been advocating for Warrior tuning all expansion, some of it has been directly implemented (like buffing the S1 tier set, buffing rotational abilities in S1, buffing ST performance in S2 to make up for less AoE, buffing Thunder Clap/Blast in Season 2). Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it's not there, but that also doesn't mean that everything I want happens - I give feedback, but its the devs that control tuning & design, and their metrics and goals don't necessarily align with ours.
• Fourth, just because its your favorite class doesn't mean its needs to be best. Average is objectively balanced.

[restive peak]

That part is stupid; blizz has a bad tendency of leaving broken specs giga broken past the halfway point of a season

[jolly marten]

if i were a warrior dev you would be capped at 2 targets, for the lols

[clever belfry]

someone needs to get picked on in every raid, warrior fills taht role

[restive peak]

What Archi just said is hopefully the better way to sum it all up for anyone picking apart any missing verbiage in anything I'm saying, because yes. Exactly yes.

[bleak gale]

i want to see you crash out like the dk class writer tbh

[restive peak]

Fury is not dogshit dumpster fire

[edgy widget]

should have been here in Antorus and Shadowlands

I've had a few moments railing at the devs

[iron plaza]

When can Warrior be the best tho ? I don't want it to be the best always just for one season for M+ let Warrior be meta

[edgy widget]

Why are you asking me that?

[young swan]

i still remember the 11th hour forum post about cof

[olive wraith]

No one in here has power to do that

[echo rapids]

Checkmate you should have been more specific, prot warrior now meta

[tepid cedar]

When can I press 3buttons with my toe?

[dusky moon]

I was gone for like half an hour, what happened here

[restive peak]

I will maintain til the day we die, and I could end up wrong, but we will never be M+ meta barring a rework or giga broken damage (which would likely get fixed shortly after anyway)

[edgy widget]

that one actually got me in some hot water with the devs

[vernal laurel]

This is a really important point, what is inspiring about Fury atm?

If I am a havoc DH I have funnel, really thematic cool abilities like Meta, the hunt and so on.
Fury has ravager..and recklessness?

I mean while the gameplay is really fun, its really sad that we just dont have any kind of unique "We are great at this" or "We have this really cool ability" at this point in time.

[iron plaza]

Well you are justifying that It's okay for Warrior to be average, Why is it warrior that is always average and balanced ?

[indigo quarry]

Fuck the meta

dont be a slave

[tepid cedar]

And have rb/bt/and rampage all cast at once

[coarse nest]

It’s yappy hour

[edgy widget]

no I didn't, I said average was objectively balanced, which is the goal of... well balance - it's right there in the name

[dusky moon]

Is the PTR going so poorly for you guys? Channel erupted

[restive peak]

WARRIOR is

[vernal laurel]

Yes

[restive peak]

You're arguing for fury, but WARRIOR is above average for M+ currently

[queen helm]

Hitting our rotation perfectly with our high apm is the most satisfying shit ever. Its inspiring

[sour elbow]

MAKE EXECUTE GREAT AGAIN

[tepid cedar]

WARRIOR IS 💩…. Let’s gooooooo

[fast mural]

It's just the usual fury dooming
Nothing new

[tepid cedar]

I love you guys

[echo rapids]

Honestly being able to dual wield 2 handlers is doing a lot of work

[edgy widget]

most of the people here haven't actually played the PTR, so they wouldn't know

[iron plaza]

Funny that, That's their goal when it comes to tuning warrior but it's a different plate on some other classes

[sour frigate]

🥲

[tepid cedar]

This is amazing

[indigo quarry]

People are so heated up for the wrong spec

[tepid cedar]

I love a lively chat

[restive peak]

Fury on PTR is very mid for M+ again, and arms is very good again...so I guess people in here are gonna crash out bad

[indigo quarry]

smh guys it's always #arms day normally

[vernal laurel]

Yeah but why can two big two-handers just hit 5 targets? Feels a little weird

[acoustic seal]

[olive wraith]

Also correcting statements doesn’t mean justifying “fury is bad and that’s okay”

[edgy widget]

then complain to them, not me

[coarse nest]

[iron plaza]

Mate not above Average, the best like Unholy Dk and Boomie are rn in current season, When was Dps warrior like this for M+?

[dusky moon]

You know that I think about it, I don't know that I can remember the last time that I saw a warrior at the top of the charts. Plenty of hunters, shadow priest, evoker, mage, warlock though hmm

[sour elbow]

why be very mid when we could be super mid? eh? Hear me out

[tepid cedar]

Jokes aside. Where do the devs fucking read

[restive peak]

So average is anything but the top 2 specs?

[tepid cedar]

I don’t see any feedback in forums

[edgy widget]

the number of times I've said "Warrior performance in M+ is not ok" and yet still they act like I kicked their puppy and told them to be happy about it

[echo rapids]

It’s a fair question. Like how is a rogue with daggers hitting 8 people, I need to see the physics behind this

[tepid cedar]

No representation in here

[dense elbow]

Hard to say if we are mid or not. Cause we got classes on PTR doing twice or thrice our numbers Please, noone look at PTR tuning and expect it to be reflective of things are going to become

[edgy widget]

then write some

[iron plaza]

I didn't say that and you are not answering my quetion

[restive peak]

There is an arms warrior in 1 of the top timed keys on retail literally right now

[tepid cedar]

I mean feedback and replies from “them”

[indigo quarry]

sounds like he doesnt have a skill issue

[restive peak]

If your argument is everyone should get a broken season, we disagree fundamentally and that's my answer

[dense elbow]

Sounds like he plays Arms

[fast mural]

But it's not fury

[restive peak]

The mages aint fire either

[fast mural]

I'm was joking btw

[lavish beacon]

God damn keyboardwarriors

[sour elbow]

Why be top when you can be a power bottom? eh? hear me out

[restive peak]

I know lol

[edgy widget]

spend 5 minutes looking at this chat and you should have a good understanding as to why devs aren't enthusiastic about communicating with the general playerbase

[indigo quarry]

Fury chat is real popcorn material actually

[dense elbow]

Ducks aint wolves.

[fast mural]

Didn't think kitty would say that u ironically

[indigo quarry]

[gleaming siren]

crazy victim mentality

Love it

[dusky moon]

@_maid what are your thoughts?

[vernal laurel]

Yeah its strange, seems like a bit of a disconnect between gameplay and the aesthetic

[tepid cedar]

I understand that and 100% get it

[iron plaza]

Well that's just wishful thinking mate, There is always going to be a broken season for certain specs

[restive peak]

Kitty is a PVPer who just wants to randomly fury M+, we just pat him and move on

[dusky moon]

What did you guys do to maid

[restive peak]

Wishful thinking is thinking there's some internal blizzard rotation wheel and everyone gets a turn

[warm crag]

dead

[edgy widget]

they're acrobatic 🙃

[coarse nest]

He’s somewhere

[gleaming siren]

99% of this chat couldn't tell if the spec got nerfed by 5%

[restive peak]

^ such facts man

[iron plaza]

Well It's been looking like that so far unlike what you believe Sir

[edgy widget]

there absolutely is not

[restive peak]

No it really hasn't

[dusky moon]

I would be able to because this channel would be screaming at the top of its lungs

[edgy widget]

there's no quota where every spec gets a turn on top and on bottom

[dusky moon]

Have you guys considered pinging everyone like the DK discord and creating a hashtag?

[vernal laurel]

To be completely fair, this situation is in part because of the lack of communication.

[dense elbow]

And Lincc come in, argue for things that makes the game just unfun. Then aint bothered, as he doesnt play either way.

[restive peak]

Mage has been meta for ages, dpriest 2 season now (3 without changes), resto druid went several seasons as the meta healer, VDH 4 of the last 5? or 6? Boomie as well has had 3/4?

[humble plover]

Obviously they don't rotate lol. Or else we'd have a good season by now

[restive peak]

I'm so back babe don't worry

[gleaming siren]

#ShoutIsARaidBuff didn't make it past the planning stages

[dense elbow]

Ya actually back?

Pog

[restive peak]

Ye I came back 2 weeks ago

[edgy widget]

I don't disagree at all, I've said over and over again that Blizzard sucks at communicating their intent... but that also doesn't change the fact that players also suck at communicating

the vast majority of players don't care about good balance or design, they just wanna feel op, and seeing someone else more op than them drives them mad with jealousy

[dense elbow]

Not hiding in PvP

[dusky moon]

Typical fury warrior issue, no brains

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/253446173774315520/1060610510803980288/skateboardge.gif

[dense elbow]

Welcome back Lincc, missed ya love

[restive peak]

I am at 9% raid buff and did not use my dinars intelligently, but I'm so back

Love you broheem ty

I did get 2600 in PVP btw before quitting for awhile 😛

[olive wraith]

Ret has had like 5 big change cycles and haven’t been meta

[vernal laurel]

Yeah, needs to go both ways of course. Currently players don't really have any power in that relationship, thus the frustration.

[dusky moon]

The second half of season 1 of dragonflight

[coarse nest]

Dragonlands

[edgy widget]

I mean the spell block changes are a prime example, go look at the "feedback" surrounding it - players are apopleptic over the idea that Blizz wants to try something different

[indigo quarry]

the grass is supposedly greener elsewhere right ?

Stop looking at the other spec

[edgy widget]

and the devs did explain their intent with the change, not once or twice, but four times now

[indigo quarry]

and think about the design flaw in our spec

[iron plaza]

Idk how it isn't, Enhancement shaman was op meta spec in S1 TWW and now they are still strong but other specs are meta, next season some other specs are gonna be meta; It might be coincidence and not intentional at all but It happens

[edgy widget]

Still players vehemently refuse to accept their reasoning, refuse to accept their desire, and lash out against them over it

[jolly marten]

https://tenor.com/view/alexandra-cabot-law-and-orde-special-victims-unit-svu-stephanie-march-objection-gif-17867806

[indigo quarry]

people only care about number and stupid meta

[sour elbow]

me meat. me want big number. me #1 melee please

[jolly marten]

explaining it doesnt mean you are right

[iron plaza]

Well doing big damage is kinda fun you know

[restive peak]

It will ALWAYS happen, there will ALWAYS be a meta. And hilariously enough, the #2 comp currently that's competitive w the boomie/DK/mage comp HAS A DPS WARRIOR

[coarse nest]

The wow community goes ape shit everytime blizzard changes design philosophy, this isn’t new lmao

[edgy widget]

not liking it doesn't mean they're wrong either

[dense elbow]

Spellblock was feel good, why would ppl not be in uproar when it goes away?

[jolly marten]

ofc not

[indigo quarry]

people that dont do dmg dont even understand their spec most of the time

[jolly marten]

thats why we talk and give feedback

feedback that goes to the trash

[edgy widget]

but that's exactly the problem, you think its an issue of absolute right or wrong... and it's not

it's not a conversation, it's not a discussion

[olive wraith]

Get out facts don’t belong in a feely convo

[restive peak]

It's a redesign, it's part of every game

[edgy widget]

its the designers saying "we want to do something different, this is what we want to do"

[restive peak]

True my b big dog

xD

[vernal laurel]

Is the uproar not about the players simply not agreeing with the devs stance? I mean they have explained their stance several times as you say, but if players feel like its the wrong way to go they will also be very vocal about that. Especially if it seems like the devs dont want to change anything, even after feedback has been given in this case.

[edgy widget]

because they are the arbiters of the game - they have identified an issue and want to change it - your agreement isn't necessary

[restive peak]

Archis point is every class uproars when a change like this happens

[edgy widget]

literally anytime there's a percieved nerf

[restive peak]

If the game actually ended when people did, we wouldn't have made it past TBC

[dense elbow]

Friendly reminder, we in #fury, we care about Fury, not arms here

[jolly marten]

or or or, they dont understand the game as much as a player that plays it everyday for pure fun.. cause you know, the work there, aint doing it for fun like us

[dense elbow]

Even if Arms was THE meta, it wouldnt make it better for Fury

[restive peak]

If you're hellbent on only playing 1 spec you either better be Noxiv, or ready to ride the wave of mediocrity more often than not

[vernal laurel]

[edgy widget]

they nerfed the Slayer tier set from +25% to merely +20%, which is still a much higher than average number, and people flipped the fuck out about it lol

that happened yesterday

[flat river]

yes because we are warriors

any nerf = doom

[dense elbow]

I still didnt get that, and I love execute. They didnt remove the Slayer Strikes element or anything

[jolly marten]

do we have the % on other class dps increases?

[edgy widget]

not just warriors, but yeah, it's just the general community sentiment

[dusky moon]

Nerf warrior AOE 3 weeks in a row

[jolly marten]

im just asking

not irony

[restive peak]

It's so interesting to me because I've never met a FIRE mage, or a DESTRO warlock, or an MM hunter competitively...they're just mages, locks and hunters that play what's needed

[dense elbow]

zzz

[iron plaza]

If you are talking about Noxiv his comp is literally built around physical and still he gets gaped so much on AoE by other specs like MM, Like Idk how this has turned to a big arguement I simply want to do big damage as a Fury warrior; We were doing big damage in S1 and we got overnerfed, Some other specs are doing big damage and has been doing big damage since the start of S2 and barely got any nerfs

[edgy widget]

no, they left the interaction and just reduced the amount of power inflation; it was about as innocent a nerf as could have been asked for

[olive wraith]

All I want are thane buffs for keys

[jolly marten]

so if we are not having the numbers for other classes to what we are comparing it and saying it was too much?

[dusky moon]

Really? I know hunters who won't play anything but bm

[dense elbow]

Sidenote: I hope Thane gets to be in a good spot by the end

[jolly marten]

just asking again

[edgy widget]

and yet he's still successful so

[dense elbow]

Not gonna play Thane, but I hope Thane ppl get to have fun

[edgy widget]

last tiers set bonus was ~3-4%
our current tier set bonus is ~5%
next tier is upwards 20%

[vernal laurel]

Very fair argument, this is not a weird stance to have

[iron plaza]

Good for him, I don't see how that's is relevant to me, I simply want to do damage as a Fury warrior

[restive peak]

And that's why we've tried to explain that 1. Fury is not as bad as people are acting, the 3-5% dmg diff is rarely the difference in timing and 2. That happens every season to every spec/class that isn't the top 3 endlessly

[olive wraith]

That’s like arguing Aug didn’t mean anything in s2 Df

[restive peak]

Competitively 😛

[bitter palm]

it isnt tho

if he just played arms

[dense elbow]

Diff of 5m overall DPS and 6-7m is a bit more than 3-5%

[edgy widget]

its indicative of the fact that while Fury may be behind, it is still more than capable, which was the original point when he and his group were brought up

[dense elbow]

come on

[bitter palm]

he wouldve done a lot more

[restive peak]

As in noone in a top 50 guild is going to refuse to play their better DPS spec

[jolly marten]

no i mean do we know compared to other classes? how much are gaining other specs from their tier sets?

[olive wraith]

Fury has higher prio damage. I’m sure there’s a reason he decided fury

[edgy widget]

it varies, not everyone has released numbers yet

[iron plaza]

Very good for them and kudos to him for staying on Fury and pushing strong

[restive peak]

Quick check on furys worst dungeon

[sour elbow]

We just all have lil pps and wanna have big pps and we can't have big pps unless we top the meters!

[restive peak]

Dak is 690k behind Kurim, it's def noticeably, but not gamebreaking

And that's cinderbrew, worst case scenario for fury

[bitter palm]

there isnt really he just doesnt play arms

its a known fact

[jolly marten]

if other classes are gaining 30% and we are gaining 20% its not justified then to nerf us

[dense elbow]

Quick, check other classes - the ones we actually compete against

[restive peak]

Literally the entire dungeon is AOE at high keys because you pull onto bosses and bosses have adds

[iron plaza]

It just doesn't feel good getting gaped so hard by some classes on AoE, like raid is a whole different story so I am not touching that

[edgy widget]

mains

[restive peak]

Arms competes against the classes you're saying are meta

[jolly marten]

i dont know

just saying

[edgy widget]

I know, which is why it's funny you keep commenting on it

[dense elbow]

Are we talking raid or M+?

[bitter palm]

for the love of the game

[restive peak]

The goalposts move with every comment, man, I swear

[bitter palm]

i respect it

[vernal laurel]

Maybe, but I cant help but think the success is despite playing fury, not by virtue of

[coarse nest]

I mean yes, but like are we really competing with the 7m overall udk

[dense elbow]

Raid I have no clue, but in M+, some classes gained a lot more than 30% thanks to bugs and what not on PTR. That is why ppl see things that make them go into an uproar

[olive wraith]

Does it matter? It works

[restive peak]

I mean arms phys comp timed a 22, same as UH...so yes

[sullen dove]

:icant: 🥀

[bitter palm]

not as a drop in replacement no

[edgy widget]

I believe Enh was getting like +28%, but that was due to a bug (they're always bugged) which has been/is getting fixed; I think Devoker was really high too

Marks was high and they got kneecapped last week

[bitter palm]

if u build a phys comp ye

look farovers group

[vernal laurel]

Of course, but I can also cut my grass with scissors if I want to, if you get what I mean

[indigo quarry]

never forggetti if you dont do dps

[vernal laurel]

It works

[jolly marten]

how do you know? you just said that the numbers arent out for every spec..

[echo rapids]

I don’t think most people here actually care about title level keys, I’m certainly not capable of that level

[indigo quarry]

its the player fault

not the class

[restive peak]

The meter also means far less than a lot of people realize; for example, there are plenty of big M+ pulls with irrelevant little mobs that die whether anyone bothers or not, they spike overall but really don't affect time at all because they're dead 20-30s before the 6-8 big mobs in the pull

[bitter palm]

tell that to the community running 17s

[indigo quarry]

do football player blame their shoes ?

[coarse nest]

It times it yes, but I think that guys arguing that his damage is being gapped by 1.5-2m

[olive wraith]

Not within the same time frame as a mower

[jolly marten]

fury warrior and an oracle?

[edgy widget]

because I know more than you

[olive wraith]

They’re timing these keys not completing

[dense elbow]

Nope, I think most are like myself. Care about my own experience and gameplay, its fun.

[restive peak]

Noone is being gapped by 2mil at the highest end of play, I'm sorry, it's not happening

[iron plaza]

I think you guys are not understanding the point of some ppl, It's not that Warrior is unplayable It's very playable It's that some other classes usually do way more damage than Warrior, like F meta but when can Warrior do quite big damage and not get nerfed a week later

[indigo quarry]

its always a skill issue

[restive peak]

JPC in DFC = 5.5mil Farover in DFC = 4.7mil

[iron plaza]

Skill issue doesn't make you do 1.Xm more overall damage

[restive peak]

That's 1.2mil, not 2mil

[dense elbow]

Sure

[indigo quarry]

imagine comparing overall in mplussing

when Fury is hardcapped

[restive peak]

Well yes that's an issue on it's own, they're truly not getting it

[indigo quarry]

how hard do they pull

[echo rapids]

God damn 1.4m MW

[iron plaza]

Literally the main point that ppl have been complaining about Fury?

[restive peak]

Let me use an example here....you do the big ML pulls

[indigo quarry]

and overall is such a narrow minded thing to look at

[restive peak]

They are 20 mobs

[coarse nest]

That guy is a gamer

[fast mural]

The 100 parse would have gapped it by 2 mil for sure

[restive peak]

8 of those mobs have 1/4 of the hp of the other 12 and do no dmg

[indigo quarry]

the problem isnt that Fury is hardcapped

[restive peak]

They will die regardless

[dense elbow]

bosses

[indigo quarry]

the problem is that Fury isnt good at their hardcapp

[restive peak]

But due to target cap, the UHDK/insert w/e uncapped here kills them off

[dense elbow]

Not top on either

fbm

[iron plaza]

You guys are acting like even on 5 targets Fury is the king of 5 target AoE and cleave

[jolly marten]

this hurt my feelings so you know, my fury warrior knowledge held a great deal for me

[restive peak]

They appear to have done a shit ton more dmg

They did not speed the key up in any way

Despite the chart saying so

[indigo quarry]

we fucking know that Fury sux at 5T

[bitter palm]

outlaw is so busted

itsn ot even funny

[jolly marten]

i thought i knew everything

[indigo quarry]

compared to everybody else

but you guys are crybaby

[restive peak]

It's just a fundamental lack of understanding the game, and thinking it's as simple as balancing around that shit

[indigo quarry]

so hard

[dusky moon]

This is such a bizarre season

[hollow leaf]

2p or 4p

[restive peak]

Ye this raid is a mess lmao

[coarse nest]

Lmao that is so our reclears too

[edgy widget]

both lmao

[dusky moon]

That's LB

[hollow leaf]

kekw

[echo rapids]

Sprocket is still an unforgiving boss for as early as it is

[indigo quarry]

instead of crybabying just give proper feedback and have meaningful insight into your spec instead of talking about random shit like its mid or its not doing dmg

[restive peak]

Man we wipe more on Sprocket than anything too, it's kinda funny

[vernal laurel]

I mean, if you look at damage taken for mobs, is the fury warrior doing more dmg to any singular mob in that pack?

[coarse nest]

[dusky moon]

It's a friend of mines team, it's just so funny

[dense elbow]

Lincc, we all accept that if Fury WAS top dogo at ST, being the trash tier AoE wouldnt suck as much. Thing is after all the ST tuning for raid - our lead, our advantage was slowly ground away.

All ppl want it a clear niche to shine within, or denied that - at least be able to keep up on the overall meter in keys.

Doesnt seem too much to ask for a DPS spec really.

[vernal laurel]

Thats what it should be doing, cause it a fury warrior

But currently, its not really like that

[edgy widget]

average tier right now seems to be around 15%, there are a few outliers though - Slayer & Colossus are both closer to 20%, Devoker is >20%, Enh is/was bugged, and I believe SPriest is completely broken (in a strong way)

[dense elbow]

SP still uberbugged eh?

[restive peak]

fury is on par with probably 10-12 other specs currently ingame

It is not weak, it is just not strong

[indigo quarry]

Overall meter isnt a good metric

[dense elbow]

We are there with Aug above us

[indigo quarry]

stop using it

[restive peak]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[dense elbow]

if we are down on overall

[olive wraith]

I mean in the physical comp shout is pretty beneficial too

[dense elbow]

down on boss

what then matters?

[restive peak]

Ok so fire mage does less overall than fury

Should blizzard buff fire mage to boomie levels

?

[bitter palm]

yes

[vernal laurel]

The prio dmg meter is not favourable either man

[iron plaza]

Mate Dps warrior hasn't gotten any single changes or buffs so far on this cycle of PTR; you would think that there would be some changes; look at warrior forums there are some good feedback posts

[restive peak]

Fuckin troll lmao

[dense elbow]

You guys argue we should be alright and fine being bottom DPS of everything

[sour frigate]

If fury is so good

[bitter palm]

im rerolling mage buff it please

[restive peak]

You're not bottom DPS of everything

[olive wraith]

It did get buffs

[sour frigate]

Why im not invited to keys

[indigo quarry]

how long was PTR out ?

[iron plaza]

Those are tier sets which everyone are getting

[dense elbow]

https://tenor.com/view/pat-pat-gif-24957682

[bitter palm]

(im not actually)

[iron plaza]

Like almost a month I think?

[bitter palm]

just gonna ball as arms fuck it

[olive wraith]

What do they buff

[indigo quarry]

and when is raid coming out ?

[coarse nest]

Some(most) could be lacking skill

[olive wraith]

Tier sets are a part of tuning

[indigo quarry]

never forget that tuning will happen

[iron plaza]

Next month

[dusky moon]

We all agree that devastation evoker should always be number one lore wise because we're fucking dragons right?

[restive peak]

110% most do not play at even remotely a level where a buff would affect them, they just don't see it

[indigo quarry]

and they always do some heavy tuning when raid comes out

and after it is out

[dense elbow]

Ppl lacking skill is the only way we beat them on DPS :v

[sour frigate]

ure furry gtfo

[south kayak]

Based

[restive peak]

Tuning will begin heavily over this next 4-5 weeks

[fast mural]

We?

Sus

[sullen dove]

I mean their reasoning is just pointless all 4 times though, like saying “we won’t make things u have to spell block don’t worry” is only going to last so long till they forget about it

Then prot is dead on cooldown until they revisit it

[sour frigate]

https://tenor.com/view/what-is-this-we-breaking-bad-meme-we-gif-25916954

[sullen dove]

just kind of a bandaid

[earnest canyon]

She would be a bike

[iron plaza]

Fuck tuning, you said give feedback and feedback doesn't really have anything to do with tuning, Where are the warrior changes about the talent trees or some abilities ?

[bitter palm]

12.0

[indigo quarry]

they wont change shit this xpac

its too late

[dense elbow]

Deathlord, that is a big thing

[restive peak]

Ye that shit will not change mid xpac, ever

[south kayak]

I think that’s the intention, bandaid until they can fix it when they have more time

[bitter palm]

it will happen

[sour frigate]

warrior meta 13.0

[bitter palm]

remember pwar on sark

[restive peak]

So we don't bother worrying about it until the test realms for Midnight start

[dense elbow]

For heroic week

[bitter palm]

spell block cd too long to deal with tank buster

[indigo quarry]

people miss the feedback window because they arent in for the next xpac close beta and stuff

[static seal]

I have some larger issues with fury's design but I feel a lot of problems would be fixed by moving power budget out of builders and into TBlast and softcapped cds like bs, tr, and of

[edgy widget]

Well no, that was their compromise
their reasoning was "we don't like the knowledge issue which results in spreadsheeting/WAs to tell you where it works" which isn't an unreasonable point of view, especially in light of their desire to pull back on WA's in the future

[bitter palm]

and u just die

[sour frigate]

[indigo quarry]

or they just dont care

[iron plaza]

You were saying that ppl cry too much and don't give feedback so go give feedback, in DF warrior was literally like this if not worse and we were saying "TWW warrior rework bro"

[dusky moon]

https://tenor.com/view/inglorious-bastards-christopher-walts-gif-25565529

[iron plaza]

And now we are saying "Midnight Warrior rework bro"

[indigo quarry]

we did this plenty of times

[bitter palm]

i fw that i just dislike how they solved it ngl

[iron plaza]

Then we are going to say "Last titan warrior rework bro"

[bitter palm]

i hated spell block

u either take 0 damage or u explode

[dense elbow]

What can we do, but say things?

[bitter palm]

its boring

[indigo quarry]

talking here wont give feedback to the devs

[south kayak]

I don’t think they have the time to solve it properly so they band aid fixed it

[olive wraith]

Were we bad in DF?

[vernal laurel]

Why on gods green earth is Rallying cry not buffed in 5 man content?
Why is Odyns fury, our signature ability, increadibly weak and not usable?
Why do we not fullfill our niche at 5 targets?

[indigo quarry]

talking to us is circlejerking

[iron plaza]

It's not like there are tons of forums about warrior

[bitter palm]

fuck it if it works this season let them

[fast mural]

I don't agree with the wait for the next ptr argument cause we've been doing that since DF S2

[sour frigate]

New heroic talents "The Last Titan" capstone increase all damage by 500%

[orchid dagger]

Implying they care about brown class anyway

[dense elbow]

I use Odyn's Fury

it aint "that bad"

[edgy widget]

not disagreeing, just saying they said they wanted to change something and explained why

I fully understand why some players are upset about it, but they also seem to think that because they disagree with Blizz, Blizz needs to do what they want, which isn't as agreeable

[fast mural]

And all we got is shockwave in the middle of the tree

[dense elbow]

it is just bad

[restive peak]

We're not saying that, we're just saying we've played this game long enough to know that's the realistic next opportunity for sweeping DESIGN changes man

[olive wraith]

Pretty big imo

[fast mural]

And how long did it take ?

[jolly marten]

if theres a reason we play games is for the reasoning and the balance

[orchid dagger]

2 xpacs lol

[coarse nest]

I really hope they don’t drastically redesign warrior

It flows very well

[bitter palm]

ye i agree with them. i dislike the idea of being immortal and then explode the moment it falls off idk

[coarse nest]

As is

[vernal laurel]

True, we need to actually get on PTR and the forums. I made a post a couple of days ago, and one before that in march. Both posts adressing basicly the same things. Feels like its falling on deaf ears

[south kayak]

Everyone always gets something in new expansion alpha/beta phases. Always

[iron plaza]

Mate we were literally all coping for reworks for TWW and they just reshuffled our class tree

[jolly marten]

im having so much fun if theres a reason and im doing ok, just fine in a game

[bitter palm]

i hope they drastically redesign arms

[restive peak]

Noone was coping for a rework for TWW, we went into TWW looking super solid, got overnerfed, now we're mid, but we're mid, not dumpster

[olive wraith]

Everyone?

[fast mural]

Go back to mop trees and everything is better

[south kayak]

Every class/spec

[static seal]

I was coping

[dense elbow]

Cause it is - understand, we dont matter. None of us do. Only if we as a gigantic mass did an uproar, setting the forums and twitter on fire - would we have any hope of affecting things directly.

That aint gonna happen.

[edgy widget]

I don't play Prot, so I don't really have an opinion here, but I feel like I'd be inclined to agree; long ass CD that's never up when you need it, with a 30s duration that you only typically need for 5s

[indigo quarry]

problem is you never know if devs are listening to the feedback

[iron plaza]

Yeah sure whatever ig

[indigo quarry]

and its on Blizzard fault

[olive wraith]

Cap

[south kayak]

[vernal laurel]

We are pretty solidly below average I would say. Being mid right now would place us at the levels of like Havoc or Windwalker or the like.

[edgy widget]

they listen, they just don't necessarily agree

and they really hate being told what they should do. They're much more receptive when you explain why something is a problem than just try to tell them how to fix it

[restive peak]

You would say that, but you'd be wrong on the data points so

[dense elbow]

Quick add, in m+ it is really solid, those 30 sec allows your CDs of DRs to reset. It is huge to make otherwise deadly mechanics safe.

And often it hits 2 tank busters at least, a lot more of the random stuff.

[restive peak]

That's where personal bias comes in

It's human, but please recognize that's what it is

[indigo quarry]

thats why proper feedback is important

[edgy widget]

ofc it accounts for a lot, never said otherwise

[indigo quarry]

voice your opinion on what you dont like

[dense elbow]

As long we dont write it off as "only hitting 1 thing"

[indigo quarry]

but dont give them order

[iron plaza]

I mean these are all players that play your game and they literally ask us to play PTR and give feedback but then they have an ego over "Not getting told what they should do"?

[bitter palm]

i play it when i have to pretty much and spell block has always been something i disliked a lot from a design and gameplay standpoint

[indigo quarry]

tell them what you dont like

[vernal laurel]

Both those specs do our job but better, just for an example. It would be hard to find anything we currently is better at than those specs

[indigo quarry]

not what they should do

you can give suggestion

its how you phrase it

[edgy widget]

telling people what to do isn't feedback, especially with how short sighted, self serving, and stubbornly opinionated most players are

the vast majority of players are not objective whatsoever

[vernal laurel]

"Please play PTR"

[iron plaza]

Idk Prot enjoyers have been saying that they don't like Prot having a magic damage taken weakness and they are just saying We are removing spell block It's not coming back bro

[bitter palm]

idk how anyone can like spell block

i agree with blizz on it

[iron plaza]

Spell block literally was an immunity to some tankbsuters

[coarse nest]

“Hello blizzard this is my feedback please listen; I don’t do enough damage..”

[indigo quarry]

yep immunity to tankbuster are broken

[sullen dove]

Sprocket is danger

[indigo quarry]

and shouldnt exists

[vernal laurel]

People have been doing really great write ups on why Spell block should remain in the game. That is good feedback.

[olive wraith]

Isn’t that kinda bad

[edgy widget]

again though, the disconnect isn't that players should enjoy that it's being removed
it's that players feel like because they don't like it's removal, Blizz needs to listen to them and change their mind

but that's not how it works, it's not a democracy and the game isn't built by committee

[orchid dagger]

It's the only thing Pwar realistically has to fuck over incoming magic damage

[bitter palm]

i remember tanking everbloom tank wasnt playing

misused spellblock once

legit couldnt pull the next pack

[dense elbow]

It is still a weakness, Spell Block simply helped us better gap those dangerous rooms of our CDs being spent. Now we will simply be 1tapped (if blizzard doesnt make sure those busters dont hit as often and as hard, forevermore)

[bitter palm]

give us some other way to fight magic dmg

[south kayak]

Why don’t they just add spell block to shield block at a reduced effectiveness

[bitter palm]

not a fucking 2min immunity

[iron plaza]

Sigil of chains and Sigil of silence being available at the same time is broken too, When is that getting changed ?

[edgy widget]

Spell Reflect

[dense elbow]

Why are we discussing Spell block in fury?

[bitter palm]

cause its fury chat

who talks about fury in fury chat

[edgy widget]

cause disgruntled people need something to be upset about

[orchid dagger]

Give it time, that'll get shitcanned too

[dense elbow]

I mean, sure, but the takes about spell block seems so weird. Most doesnt understand what SR is used for.

[bitter palm]

never obviously

[olive wraith]

Buff thane pls

[indigo quarry]

greener grass elsewhere mentality

[bitter palm]

they like having vdh as the top tank every season

[indigo quarry]

everybody gonna get the hammer sometimes

DH has been a rampant problem

[iron plaza]

Yeah but it's a coincidence that it's usually warrior that's getting hammered

[indigo quarry]

in the tank meta multiple times

[orchid dagger]

Unless you are DH lol

[bitter palm]

vdh disc mage boomie + something

just wait

[indigo quarry]

Prot clearly got the short stick multiple times

[vernal laurel]

Its valid though, Vengeance has been king for a long time because their kit is great for M+. Not saying that we should uber nerf them, but giving other classes things to keep up would make the game more fun

[dense elbow]

Good news, with tierset buffed, Thane got buffed on the PTR and is looking a lot better! (more tuning is to come)

[olive wraith]

Sorry I misspoke

Buff thane more pls

[iron plaza]

Anyways long story short imo some of you guys are giving the devs much more credit than they deserve

[indigo quarry]

problem is DH has too many tools for no reason

[vernal laurel]

Surely

[south kayak]

Don’t tell them what to do

[static seal]

if sigils are so OP why was veng not meta s1?

[indigo quarry]

how blizzard handle it is horrendous for sure

[unborn delta]

i thought this was northernlion for a second

[iron plaza]

Yeah don't shatter their ego

They don't want to be ordered around it seems

[dense elbow]

I hope Archi can come with a clear statement that PTR is not final tuning, and you should not worry too much about it at this point - then pin it. Twice.

[indigo quarry]

thing is comparing a DPS spec to another isnt fair

[iron plaza]

Let them do their own shit like they have been doing all this time

[indigo quarry]

but a Tank to another Tank spec is more delicate

[olive wraith]

Who checks pins

[dense elbow]

True, it is hopeless

[coarse nest]

The developers don’t have to even take feedback they could give you a build and tell you to get fucked if you don’t like it

Atleast they allow feedback

[indigo quarry]

if you dont agree do like me and uninstall the game

[bitter palm]

on top of dmg survivability mobility raid buff

[dense elbow]

VDH beat Pwarrior DPS atm?

[iron plaza]

But they are not the ones who play this game, The players are the ones who play it; They did their shit in SL and we all know how that expansion ended

[bitter palm]

no

[edgy widget]

they also act on it, even if player's dont see it

[south kayak]

If you think they haven’t nerfed vengeance or been nerfing for some time, you’re cooked. They did a bunch of things like removing double sigils and a lot of other things like nerfing chaos touch

[bitter palm]

at least i dont think so

pwar is crazy dmg wise

[dense elbow]

Good, you scared me, I was double checking PTR notes for something I missed

[edgy widget]

the whole "we're retuning a bunch of raid & dungeon boss spell damage to help ease spikes on Prot War" was literally driven by a handful of specific players giving direct feedback

[south kayak]

On average, prot war does the most damage

[frigid zealot]

we're always upset!

[bitter palm]

ye very very good st as well

[olive wraith]

Is thane gonna be the raid spec now?

[edgy widget]

https://tenor.com/view/rabble-randy-marsh-sheila-broflovski-gerald-broflovski-richard-tweak-gif-22002734

[orchid dagger]

pwar is legit the only reason to play war next tier

[azure cedar]

easy parses as prot

[vernal laurel]

They have become a lot better since then, but some of that "We know best" attitude is clearly still there. Sometimes the do know better, but it feels like at many points they just don't.

Good thing that they are better at receiving feedback nowadays at least

[iron plaza]

Same for that matter about "We are removing all extra range stuff for all melee but we are increasing the hitbox of all things", Did they even do that ?

[indigo quarry]

people only remember specific info to help their narrative

[floral isle]

tried thane on soulbinder and it was pretty decent

[sullen dove]

god damn it this convo rly makes me want to buy m+ title

[orchid dagger]

RIP Annihilator

[floral isle]

ionizing strikes did 6.13 percent of my damage

[flat river]

fuck that talent

[floral isle]

basically just another lightning strike clone

[flat river]

it can burn in hell for all i care

[indigo quarry]

they did mostly

[bitter palm]

when the chef speaks u listen

[edgy widget]

I don't recall them saying they were increasing the hitbox of things, but they did remove the extra range stuff for melee, yeah

[vernal laurel]

Rip indeed, S3 fury was so fun to play

[indigo quarry]

some boss were easier to get in melee range

[iron plaza]

Pretty sure they said sth like this

[south kayak]

This convo makes me wanna main something else

[dense elbow]

Sadly, with an infinetly scaling system, the question is if that will do enough. Will they really tune it so we still effectively take a hit at the 'same' mitigation levels. Or will the problem simply be pushed to a higher point where it becomes a wall of Pwarrior just dying.

We got to wait and see, but you did take away agency from Pwarrior. You cant expect ppl to like that.

[indigo quarry]

you havent seen the other class discord

its worst

[olive wraith]

I thought they just removed the extra range melee

[iron plaza]

Idk Ret is still half ranged

[indigo quarry]

Ret is a magical warrior

[bitter palm]

its the dad spec

[orchid dagger]

Ret literally can larp as a caster

[bitter palm]

same as bm

[edgy widget]

they never said they were reducing the range of spells, they said they were reducing the increased melee range and they did

key word melee

[south kayak]

I already don’t main warrior anyway, I’m still active here the most though lol

[vernal laurel]

We need to keep up, should start to think about a # like the dks

[edgy widget]

they never ever said they were gonna take away Ret or DK ranged tools

[bitter palm]

make grip melee only

[edgy widget]

they quite specifically said they were going to remove the things that gave Rogue, Ret, etc increased melee range

[orchid dagger]

#QuitFuckingBrownClass

[bitter palm]

imagine the outroar

[olive wraith]

Ww has extra range

[bitter palm]

whats ww

[dense elbow]

I like WW, it does dam when nothing else can

[olive wraith]

Whirlwind

[vernal laurel]

At this point just make it #DeleteFury and make a point

[chilly fractal]

Walt Whitman

[olive wraith]

And it got buffed

[chilly fractal]

your WW

[edgy widget]

does it? I don't think it does anymore

[coarse nest]

Speaking of melee range why the hell do we not have more attack range than dagger/paw wielders

Smh

[sour frigate]

fists are like 9m and crane is 8m

[edgy widget]

that's... not the same thing

[dense elbow]

We got the same range like them, wdum Brew?

[sullen dove]

2 aoe abilities

pog

whirlwind is 8 yards

cluegi

[plush zephyr]

You’ve really stepped up your dooming these last couple days lmao

[sour frigate]

😎

[coarse nest]

Precisely

[olive wraith]

Wait don’t break my heart does it not have slightly larger range?

[static seal]

pretty sure they were making a pun because whirlwind has extra range

[sour frigate]

no

[coarse nest]

We have large ass 2h weapons with plenty of “reach”

[edgy widget]

I don't know why this is hard for people to grasp, so I'm just gonna repeat it here

[coarse nest]

We deserve extra 3 yds

[chilly fractal]

man I thought I had a good Breaking Bad reference too

[sour frigate]

u have to hug target to use palm/bok/rsk

[olive wraith]

What are those

[sour frigate]

rotational abilities

[south kayak]

WW monk things

[bitter palm]

i agree with the make grip melee fella

[edgy widget]

melee range is defined at the range of melee (auto) attacks
it has nothing to do with the range of specific spells

[plush maple]

NO

[edgy widget]

make heroic throw melee range

except keep its minimum range too

[dense elbow]

No... it will ruin my macro

[south kayak]

Heroic Punch

[bitter palm]

nome is explode

[sour frigate]

Balls...

[olive wraith]

Throw target instead of weapon

[bitter palm]

gonna explode *

[bitter palm]

ballshd

[edgy widget]

HotS Garrosh moment

[south kayak]

We need Garrosh HoTS abilities

[azure cedar]

guys important question: bladestorm or ravager?

[dense elbow]

Depends

[edgy widget]

Slayer BS, Thane Rav

[sour frigate]

bladestorm looks cool