fury

[sullen dove]

in which case don’t track them

[fast mural]

why would you track reaps anyway

[sullen dove]

pointless info really

[fast mural]

to know how bad you got fucked by RNG ?

sounds depressing

[red berry]

that is his entire complaint, yes

[dense elbow]

Ya notice when ya spin, it is about feel and having fun.

[sullen dove]

Like I might notice some variability in dps on brood by like a couple hundred k but could be any number of things

Less reaps

Other ppl procced better did more dam

Adds stacked better or worse to help you or someone else more

buncha shit

[young swan]

ok u just have no idea what real rng looks like

[red berry]

true

[fast mural]

roar lost a tick

cause adds died to fast

[sullen dove]

Rip roar

[red berry]

id argue reap is actually far more generous to proc then thunder blast sometimes

[young swan]

real rng was back in nighthold getting 2 battlecry's in your avatar window

[sullen dove]

reap kinda owns

[red berry]

but only because you don't notice it as much when you don't proc reap

and even that is just straightup how it works

[young swan]

7rppm SD is not rng

[smoky vale]

good morning swordish :3

[sullen dove]

Does bt proccing tb even cleave

[young swan]

67% proc chance reap is not rng

[sullen dove]

thought it was flat 35%

[young swan]

no

its flat 25

[sullen dove]

Or something is it 20

[young swan]

35%

[sullen dove]

how quaint

[dense elbow]

99% is still RNG, cause it is random if you get 99 or a 100. The odds are just favored. Or is RNG somehow not random event with different odds?

[sullen dove]

it’s meaningless rng

[red berry]

????????

[dense elbow]

Is this a term problem, where you guys call 51% not RNG

[red berry]

??????????????????????????????????????????????

[dense elbow]

So it is a term problem

[undone flower]

But in the other hand, if you 100% reap on every BT, you are making Reap that BT as extra and not BT that reap as extra

[red berry]

galaxyBrain

[sullen dove]

your damage is not doubled with good or bad reap rng

[dense elbow]

100% is not RNG, 99% is

[sullen dove]

A like 3% difference who cares

wait u only had 95% reck uptime p1 sark and not 99 u couldn’t get extra set of reck rav before phasing!!!! Its over!!!

I hate am/uf rng!!!!

[dense elbow]

Yeah, it is a clear point of view fallout and term usage failure. You guys would not call dice rolls RNG, as you will avg out the dice rolls to a certain pattern.

[modest condor]

now we're just arguing semantics which doesnt help anyone

if something doesnt have 100% chance of happening it's rng by definition

[undone flower]

I wouldn’t use rng as pejorative if the chance is 90% to reap with 2 Bt

[slim coral]

it's RNG that this convo is happening rn

[modest condor]

you're rng

[dense elbow]

Cosmic RNG

But the chance we get into this looping convo, is 100%

[red berry]

we should make the word RNG a slur

and nobody can reclaim it

[modest condor]

add it to the bad word filter

[dense elbow]

Its the standard: I say I dislike the RNG element of it, I want it static. Ppl say "no it is fine, it isnt RNG really!" and off we go

[red berry]

please

[modest condor]

add furry as well while we're at it

[nimble sphinx]

You guys are silly

[sullen dove]

I mean static is just bad for everyone anyway

[modest condor]

not judging furries but idk why people keep asking about them here

[sullen dove]

if u do the exact same thing every time

and it’s bad

way worse

[dense elbow]

Luckilly, reap is only part of all the RNG we got

so it wont feel as bad as you think

[undone flower]

Mfe

Sd

[dense elbow]

Mfe?

[sullen dove]

Rng gives you something to mildly look forward to while playing

If your spec has 0 rng you just play and go “wow I did exactly how much damage I thought I would do”

zero rewarding moments

[fast mural]

and mistakes are gonna feel alot worse aswell

[hardy bluff]

this is why i play 1% crit only

just get lucky

[dense elbow]

Yeah, I am hard in camp "reap frustrates me more than it makes me smile". That wont change.

When my big button is based on both crit RNG, build up and Reap RNG, I personally feel that is too many elements in action.

[fast mural]

big button ?

[dense elbow]

Bladestorm

[fast mural]

since when is that a big button

[dense elbow]

[fast mural]

you mean unhinged

[dense elbow]

The way to play league back in the day, 1% crit, crit, win lane.

[fast mural]

collossus with 1 % crit is peak

[modest condor]

500 corruption infinite stars pvp gameplay

just hope you proc a stars before you die

[dense elbow]

Bear running at you, you praying for no TD proc

[nimble sphinx]

Wait funky don't raid. Your perspective is all through m plus

[undone flower]

Mark for execution, slayer gameplay is rng (2) is enjoyable bc it makes it less rng

[young swan]

yes and somehow still complains about reap rng

despite it being WAY more egregious in raid than m+

[dense elbow]

Ah, Mark, makes sense

Mrf, gotta try to remember it, will forget

[sullen dove]

Mfe

[dense elbow]

See?

[fast mural]

ngl sometimes i even forget what those red debuffs are called

[modest condor]

oh hi mark

[hardy bluff]

warrior brian with many holes..

[fast mural]

i just know execute dps

[undone flower]

Le Fromage

[dense elbow]

Wonder if they could make mark feel hyped. What if, you could only consume that at 3 stacks, but it was twice the empowerment?
Yeah, doesnt really work with gameplay, as things will die before you can detonate and stuff.

Meh, (2) will make it all fun either way.

(4) will be a drag

Then Thane hopefully, will get fixed (?) to work and be fun

[fast mural]

isnt thane tier just a dmg proc

[dense elbow]

SFX can carry

[fast mural]

but it has rng to it aswell

dont you hate that

[modest condor]

can hardly call it damage

[dense elbow]

Last time I cheked, it did what 0.3%?

ionizing strikes

[undone flower]

(2) is already really good for gameplay, mark is not hyped but having the SD proc of reaching 3 is what make it fun

[dense elbow]

I already stated I agree with that multiple times. But I am glad you are happy about it

[fast mural]

2p is gonna be hype

like always

[dense elbow]

2p is hype

4p is doom

[undone flower]

(4) is the lackluster I agree, so I wouldn’t touch (2) at all

[dense elbow]

4p: BS damage increased by 100%

Now we talking, more bladestorm, stronger bladestorm

Loops with (2)

[undone flower]

I think you keep the RB increase tho of the set, it is a ST downtime countermeasure bc (2) *keep a form of dmg increase of either rampage, BT or RB

[dull sierra]

is furry good spec in 11.2

[dense elbow]

Thane:
(2) Clap calls down ionizing strikes, hitting 4-6 times for X% AP damage. At 10 stacks consume and get thunderous blast.
(4) Thunderous Blast now calls down an empowered lightning strike, hitting all targets, applying 4 ionising strikes to all targets struck.

Could this be fun?

Just make it rain lightning and have the thunder rolling all the time.

(also uncapped AoE dam )

[fading sky]

Anything with lightning everywhere

Im in

As long as we gotta press RB

(Joke)

[dense elbow]

Fuck, I didnt build in anything but clap clap clap

[modest condor]

yes

[dense elbow]

Why does it make sense that Meow wrote Furry

[fading sky]

Bs clap clap clap

Bt

[modest condor]

https://tenor.com/view/slap-clap-bolbi-jimmy-neutron-gif-6217114

[sullen dove]

best dps s3

[undone flower]

In my mind a thane set would do avatar = clap is always TB

[fading sky]

Clapclapclap

[undone flower]

Still with clap cd

[fading sky]

Prots smilin

[dull sierra]

meow

[fading sky]

Reduced cd

[dense elbow]

Meow

[fading sky]

I just wanna clapclapclapclaprbclap

[oblique trail]

[modest condor]

all abilities do stormstrike damage while avatar is active let's go

[dense elbow]

Well, my thing would be:
Clap, blast, blast, blast, blast

come on

that is OP as fuck

[modest condor]

no tuning, just the same ap scaling but stormstrike damage instead

[dense elbow]

I do like the stormstrike cook

if we get effects to match

[undone flower]

He means like unstoppable force, you clap every other gcd

During avatar

[dense elbow]

Would be every GCD, as 10 stacks proc blast, that is ofc usable

as there are more targets

you almost guarenteed to detonate them at different intervalls

blast, blast, blast, blast

[modest condor]

bring back merciless bonegrinder

[dense elbow]

WW spam after bladestorm?

[modest condor]

god imagine current whirlwind with mbg

[dense elbow]

I dont want hurricane Jr effects

[modest condor]

it would probably do more damage to the prio target than anything else

[young swan]

stack limit PLEASE

[dull sierra]

but it also gives tclap no cd for thane

[modest condor]

tblast with mbg kreygasm

[undone flower]

You don’t want hurricane effects but reap 100%

[modest condor]

15mil blasts

[dense elbow]

If I could take: BS does 50% more dam, instead of 50% dam being Reap, I would. And you know it

[undone flower]

Yes, that’s why to me BS is maybe the move for Blizz

Soft 8 bs for a ptr cycle

[dense elbow]

wdum?

[undone flower]

Oh yeah it roar that is capped at 5

[dense elbow]

OF

is the one that hurt from that the most

[fast mural]

or make spear good

[undone flower]

Delete spear

[sullen dove]

The stack limit is 8 seconds of mbg :cluegi:

[fast mural]

delete roar

[sullen dove]

pool them blasts

[fast mural]

and delete OF

[dense elbow]

Delete R4V0N

[fast mural]

give us new shit

[young swan]

just make it next 3 ww/tclap man

spamming shit is cringe

[fast mural]

OF is just whirlwind

[young swan]

literally the worst part about legion fury

[dense elbow]

OF is life

you take that back

[young swan]

was the aoe rotation

[undone flower]

Yes give us either no damage spear / roar, or just change them

[fast mural]

if they make whirlwind have a dot wouldnt that be the same

[clever path]

@fickle bluff come over here and kiss me on my hot mouth i'm feeling romantical

[dense elbow]

Dont give them ideas

I beg

some dev is writing that down

[smoky vale]

@clever path

[dense elbow]

"give WW a DoT"

[fast mural]

good

at least that means some changes

[dense elbow]

DoT that lasts 6 sec

hasted

[fast mural]

or make OF a passive that replaces WW

[dense elbow]

That is my greatest fear

that the "ramp should be replaced by OF for AoE"

crew wins

[sullen dove]

remember when xan said we would build up a 3 minute long bb dot this season

[undone flower]

Make OF baseline in the spec tree

[dense elbow]

To be fair, DoT was a lot stronger back then

[young swan]

yeah before they nuked the fuck out of RA that was true

[fast mural]

which gets overwritten by a 3 second one ?

[sullen dove]

on god there’s no way that shouldn’t ever be a normal pandemic’d dot

[dense elbow]

What is the DoT currently, (while running) like 1-2%?

[clever path]

so what if you could see the darkest side of me no one would ever change this animal i have become..

[sullen dove]

A reason to hit bb during your limited ra time but the rest just spam crushing blow please

[young swan]

its not even pandemic it just fully stacks

[sullen dove]

Yea Ik but like.. why

[young swan]

its still possible to get infinite duration dot

its just bad

[sullen dove]

that is what shouldn’t be the case

[fast mural]

guys cold steel hot blood isnt a dmg thing its supposed to heal you giving you more survivability

[sullen dove]

Good dot that isn’t infinite for no reason

So u spam cb

[clever path]

SOMEBODY GET ME THRU THIS NIGHTMARE I CANT CONTROL MYSELF

https://tenor.com/view/emo-gif-1771696518054862294

[sullen dove]

The only reason to swap ra from what it was to this

[fast mural]

i prefer RA the way it is now ngl

[sullen dove]

To actually yknow concentrate more damage in the ra window, like the whole point of the Change

[young swan]

empowered abilities are shit and cringe

nuke them

[smoky vale]

King @clever path the terrible

[smoky vale]

hi

[dense elbow]

Sword is right, devs did botch RA as they released it

[clever path]

yo

[young swan]

RA should just extend reck duration and give you crit damage

thats it

thats all it needs to do

[slim coral]

well I still want my empowered bt and rb

[undone flower]

My cook on RA, it is a breath of sindragosa type of talent (with rage ofc)

[young swan]

u could throw in extra crit chance too if ur feeling spicy

[sullen dove]

Make it do s3 tier set

500% dmg full critrate on 3 abilities

crushing blow no vc bb with vc

[dense elbow]

1.5m CD tho?

[sullen dove]

[young swan]

im playing RA cause i dont want to be an uptime slave

[dense elbow]

Ah, 500% more dam

[young swan]

no ty

[sullen dove]

idk more or less abilities whatever

[clever path]

whispers to @smoky vale so others can't hear u-um what is RA exactly..? asks Pauck, feeling a bit embarassed

[sullen dove]

:3

[modest condor]

bruh

[dense elbow]

500% dam, would make it so we would take the Avatar talent to reduce ramp cost, so we can Ramp, Ramp, Ramp

Fixes within fixes

[sullen dove]

not rampage

[dense elbow]

Why no rampage

You cant mean empowering shit like Storm and OF?

[young swan]

empowered generators leads directly to the issue of not caring about pressing rampage

[south kayak]

and depths of insanity should increase the crit damage per sec until reck is over

[young swan]

you have to remove them

if you care about pressing rampage/not overcapping intentionally

[undone flower]

I don’t find big issues with builder>spenders when they are special

[young swan]

I find an issue with builders > spenders in any class where the spender is THE button

and thats how fury has been designed

[south kayak]

^

Rampage needs to be empowered

[slim coral]

yeah but who cares rampage is whatever anyways

[south kayak]

not BT or RB

[dense elbow]

Nah, THE button is OF

[young swan]

THATS THE PROBLEM

[south kayak]

Bro Rampage has never been "whatever" before

this is a new thing

[red berry]

idk how you would make rampage more sexy to press

[dense elbow]

Ramp isnt whatever after 5 RBs

[slim coral]

I LIKE MY BB AND CB

[young swan]

U ARE AIDING AND ABETTING THE PROBLEM

[slim coral]

I WILL NOT LOSE THOSE

[sour frigate]

OF damage increased 500% now consumes 100 rage

[dense elbow]

I dont hate that

[red berry]

rampage cleaves for 90% damage on 5 targets

[south kayak]

Rampage used to do a lot more damage compared to the builders

they broke it

I want that back

[undone flower]

I like Bb and Cb bc it can changes my prio

[south kayak]

30% rampage damage and the rest is bullshit

BfA rampage was it

BRING IT BACK

[red berry]

i miss that one that made it so rampage was more spendy but it increased our damage and haste

[south kayak]

I think devs are changing how things work to make things fresher but I don't want builders better than spenders

EVER

I don't wnna play specs like that

[young swan]

YES

[south kayak]

I think they should reduce rage gen and make rampage stronger by a lot

[young swan]

FROTHING BERSERKER

PLEASE

BRING IT BACK

AND CARNAGE

CHOICE NODE THEM

[undone flower]

Rampage increase our haste, with frenzied enraged and frenzy

[red berry]

literally

[dense elbow]

Ok, but think outside of the box. So...
What if, we do damage with builders and got utility usage through spenders.

Eh?

I fixed Fury?

[red berry]

nah different thing im not talking about enrage

frothiing berserker

[south kayak]

We need more incentive to press rampage and Frothing helps with that

the old one

[undone flower]

Rampage is enrage

[red berry]

frothing was so fun

[young swan]

PLEASE

[red berry]

yes

but im not talkiing about enrage

im talking about frothing berserker

hence why i said the words

frothing berserker

[sour frigate]

what the fuck

[dense elbow]

Frothing, I enjoyed that one I even used the increased rage cap neck, for less spill

[red berry]

i saw this on the tree and i had such glee in my heart

i gave you five big booms for that one

[south kayak]

If some random mod in a warrior server can make better talents than the devs

what are they doing

[dense elbow]

That isnt random tho

[south kayak]

too much ego

[dense elbow]

The BT offhand cook tho, that is something I really want to see

[south kayak]

Just copy his talents and the specs better

[young swan]

the issue with offhand bt is that it completely bricks unhinged

im pretty sure

[south kayak]

the most important thing for me is to make rampage highest prio

[young swan]

i feel like theres a reason they picked bt and not rb or ramp

[undone flower]

It will fix bs lack of dmg at least

[south kayak]

Yo can I see the talents cook

Haven't checked in a while

[fading sky]

More rage

?

[young swan]

no i mean I feel like theres some tech issue with multi hit attacks and auto cast abilities

[south kayak]

Yeah

[dense elbow]

Remove unhinged, just make unhinged do "Storm strikes" a bladestorm based only attack?

[undone flower]

We will never have ww auto casts ?

[dense elbow]

Use OF

and be happy

[red berry]

do u remember when they buffed odyns 100%

[south kayak]

I don't know why the devs are making things worse by making builders higher prio than spenders

just fix it

[dense elbow]

You mean 133%? I remember

[red berry]

god it was 133%

[young swan]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1iu2OPGgcsgJzwIPgrfSrmDUFDfis2_vS/view?usp=sharing

[dense elbow]

It still fills my copiumtank to this day

[young swan]

this should work

[south kayak]

It doesn't make any sense to me to have RB have so many modifiers and Rampage (THE SPENDER), have barely anything

I just wanna know what the person who did this was thinking

[young swan]

just open in draw.io, idk why its so shit in the preview window

[undone flower]

It’s more that the spec tree is empty without them

Would it make it feel better if it was rampage nodes (so baseline rampage is doggo) but at the end you have the same result as now

[south kayak]

Is this 2 charges?

[young swan]

no just 1

[south kayak]

ok

Idk how that works, you're gonna spam ww with that talent

[south kayak]

okay

[sullen tendon]

this just sounds like your turngin raging blow into bt

[sour frigate]

replace ragin blow with onslaught

[young swan]

u mean bt into raging blow

[sullen tendon]

yea

but why

just get rid of rb

[young swan]

u should just look at the whole tree

instead of seeing 2 talents with no context

the goal was to balance out synergies between the 2 spells without leaving any gaps in the rotation

[south kayak]

Seeing those talents is making me sad with what we have

[young swan]

obviously its impossible to test cause its not real

[south kayak]

[smoky vale]

gm

[young swan]

hi gio

[sullen tendon]

they should go back to bt being the way to enrage and you get fucked on opener if you dont crit for the first few gcds

[south kayak]

Classic

The issue rn is that we have too much rage gen IMO

and rampage is weak

that makes builders even stronger

If the rage gen went down to something like BFA

and rampage was buffed

that'd be great

[smoky vale]

or

we go to s3 df

[south kayak]

No

that sucked

[smoky vale]

nope it was fun to me so im right

[south kayak]

[olive wraith]

Agree s3 Df please

Actually pressing bt

[red berry]

i want competent AoE

[smoky vale]

we had that in s4 df when of insta got aggro

[olive wraith]

Huh?

S3 was worse for aggro

[smoky vale]

do you not remember when you charged of insta floor

[chilly fractal]

S1 of WWI I ripped aggro

[olive wraith]

I did rip aggro, but s3 was worse for that

We actually had burst s3

[south kayak]

s3 aoe was pretty mid

[olive wraith]

Ya it was relatively weak

[modest condor]

yeah the only thing we had was OF

[olive wraith]

But you still ripped aggro

[modest condor]

nothing else did damage

and roar i guess

[olive wraith]

That’s when we had real prio damage though

[south kayak]

[olive wraith]

St was pretty good in s3

[modest condor]

yeah it was the best st we've had since bfa s3

[vapid tiger]

When simming it never seems to respect the gem that increases crit with different gem colors. Is it about like that for everyone?

I know Fury isn't crit based but seems like it'd be some easy gains to shift gems just a little to make it work

[young swan]

until next season 😈

[red berry]

give fury a crit = crit damage talent

just like DH. MM. and now DK

[modest condor]

make sure you tick the boxes below the gem selection

[chilly fractal]

S3 DF… a great time

[olive wraith]

Rip anni

[modest condor]

may you never return

[red berry]

rot.

[chilly fractal]

May it return

[south kayak]

yes please

Xan's ideas are good for crit damage/crit

[modest condor]

isnt that just a dh talent?

[south kayak]

I think he means any talent that makes crit better

MM has one too

[smoky vale]

yes

[olive wraith]

What we need is arms AJ right

[south kayak]

A MM in my guild had like 60% unbuffed crit

MM really wants crit lol

[young swan]

something I didn't really like

[young swan]

acknowledge i guess

until recently

is that my tree completely devalues haste like entirely

[south kayak]

lmao it does

might as well not pick any haste items lol

I wanna calculate how much haste your talents give

[young swan]

its like

a lot

its like 50% if u take everything

[red berry]

yeah xan's talent builds incredible. to gas it up. that looks fun. and you could tune it to get numbers right

[south kayak]

20% from Enrage, 10% perma from carnage, 20% from recklessness, a lot from frenzy

[red berry]

it has everything ive asked for

a focus on bleeds

[south kayak]

lol

[red berry]

a focus on crits

[olive wraith]

Blizz hire this man

[south kayak]

I think carnage should be 5% haste

or maybe something else like mastery

[red berry]

og carnage was cheaper rampage and rampage hit 10% harder

og frothing was 10%? damage and 10% haste i think

[south kayak]

15% from enrage

[red berry]

might be 5% h aste

[young swan]

og frothing was just 15% damage

[south kayak]

and movement speed

[young swan]

bfa frothing was 5% haste 10% dam and 95 rage cost ramp

[south kayak]

30%

[young swan]

oh yeah

[south kayak]

you had a lot of MS in legion as a fury

not to mention with the old War machine lol

30% haste or something

[red berry]

yeah i thought it was 15%

[south kayak]

I think haste should go away from here

maybe put 15% damage

or auto attacks deal 200% more damage and are 200% faster

[young swan]

the haste is to make up for losing the rage amp while mainting the "speedy" feel

[south kayak]

so it's tied to AA speed instead of haste

[young swan]

I think its fine honestly

[south kayak]

ok but you'd have to remove haste from somewhere else

[young swan]

im happy with it anyways

im fine with haste being entirely supplemented

[south kayak]

Blizzard's downside would be: you can't gain haste from items

[young swan]

i mean its like the exact same "problem" fury has currently

where all of its crit is supplemented

its just with a different stat

[bronze badge]

Does this fury tier feel like the most lame set in past mutliple patches

[red berry]

i think one of fury's bigger problems is that down to its design, it has no real reason to gain stats

other then that they are there and they increase damage

where other specs amp up via stats specifically

again, crit damage via crit

there's real interactions there

obviously we want to go faster and haste enables that but it doesnt feel that impactful

[young swan]

do u mean s2 or s3

[bronze badge]

On PTR

[sullen dove]

Gotta be this one

Actually worthless

and what

Thane is dookie but slayer pretty sick

[young swan]

ptr is the most interesting set we've had since like s2/s3 DF

[sullen dove]

current s2 set is horrible

[bronze badge]

s2 is ass also both are horrible

[young swan]

thane set is basically non-existent

but the slayer set is sick

[bronze badge]

what interactions about it are nice?

gameplay almost exact same

[red berry]

thane set has to get a redesign and probably is

[sullen dove]

Actually hitting sudden death on cd

Instead of ignoring it and having a weak aura tell you when to hit it

[young swan]

u slam the fuck out of execute when it lights up

thats entirely different from current fury

[sullen dove]

only wa youd need is to know when your exe is a sudden death under 20%

Cuz exe itself still ass

[young swan]

also creates neat feedback loop

[red berry]

i do wish execute did a little more damage but it proccing slayerr's strike is undenialy powerful

[young swan]

more sd = more slayers strikes = more sd

[sullen dove]

= more bladestorm

[young swan]

yep

[bronze badge]

Just hit execute every sudden death not very in depth imo but to each their own

[sullen dove]

yea I mean it’s not like changing the entire spec but it’s nice to have more than 1 top priority button

[bronze badge]

yea just was hoping for more after reading thinks like ench shaman tier

[young swan]

more in depth than entirely ignoring the tier set like we have for the past 2 tiers

[sullen dove]

And actually noticing its effects

Like you’ll notice faster bs cds

[bronze badge]

gameplay legit just feels like this tier but now 0 thought into when to hit SD

[young swan]

u can get 2 bs inside avatar very consistently now

[bronze badge]

hmm that is interesting

[sullen dove]

Vs “raging blow sometimes does more damage”

[bronze badge]

anyone have any logs from ptr raids i can look at?

[young swan]

@slim coral might

[slim coral]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/wLMTZQ9vpxJtzFRP

go crazy

I tried a bunch of diff stuff just for results purpose

[bronze badge]

tuning still completely cooked right?

[slim coral]

mostly on first boss is where I tested stuff

[smoky vale]

go crazy (to do tank damage)

[young swan]

yeah

[red berry]

fury on the PTR has not been touched at all numberwise yet, no

outside of the tierset

which in theory makes execute and raging blow hit much harder

well

20%

[vapid tiger]

Anyone else's sims start favoring Verse? Its confusing me. All verse gems/enchants. I know stat weights aren't viewed favorably as they shift but this is what mine says now.

[red berry]

not, 'much'

[smoky vale]

do not sim stat weights

sim top gear

[vapid tiger]

I do

says same thing

[young swan]

that should be about expected

[vapid tiger]

so verified it

[young swan]

we're hitting dr's on haste and mastery this time of the xpac

[vapid tiger]

Ah thank you

[sullen dove]

can try to swap crafted gear to verse if it corroborates but yea verse gets better later into xpac

[young swan]

crit and vers will start picking up value

[smoky vale]

@sullen dove will dragindeez make a return to the m+ scene

[young swan]

crit and vers also generally scale more favourably if you have stuff that procs damage

[vapid tiger]

Yeah that's where I'm seeing it. just looks weird and see some top furys on logs did too

[sullen dove]

What scene

[smoky vale]

doing keys with me :3

[sullen dove]

Slayers strokes aint doin more with haste that’s for sure

perhaps a modicum

[young swan]

well more haste = more procs

but yeah

double damage > 0.5 more procs per minute

[formal ravine]

I mean a stroke doesn't really need much haste, it's a one hit wonder

[sullen dove]

big strokers

[knotty lotus]

Anyone has a thunder blast weak aura?

[sullen dove]

but surely like they can just make this version of ra good with such options like “cb/bb can’t reset its own cooldown and rampage replenishes your charges while under avatar” or something such that you still kinda gotta hit rampages in there

Tho not like u don’t already have to for enrage

I think old RA where you permanently overcap rage and not hit rampages is maybe a a tiny bit cringe but 20-28 seconds of ramp not being top priority is probably fine

[young swan]

no ida

dont even care

tired of SL slop abilities

[sullen dove]

Ra is sl?

[young swan]

they somehow gave us the worst things from SL and none of the good things

[sullen dove]

jus make buttons do good dmg yes

[sullen dove]

Tru no mbg

[young swan]

the empowered abilities are a SL addition yeah

[sullen dove]

very tragic

[young swan]

no condemn

no harrowing punishment

[sullen dove]

condemn funge

[young swan]

no sinful surge

[formal ravine]

That's practically a worse version of old RA

[young swan]

no first strike

[clever path]

Swordish smells like fish

[formal ravine]

We practically had rampage "resetting" rb and bt in the essence of changing it, now tying it to avatar is just a worse version

[sullen dove]

Yea I mean old version you always did that tho the difference being this is only in the cd window and the buttons actually do enough dmg to warrant that

U still play like normal and ramp over all outside of cds

[formal ravine]

And the issue with the old rampage overcapping, was a numbers tuning issue more than anything, they could've buffed rampage to be more desirable to press.

[sullen dove]

but cb n shit being good would actually be a “burst cooldown” somethin we haven’t had since s3 df

[formal ravine]

Warrior in the current state needs a complete overhaul, top down, but i am convinced they got no actual developer working on warrior and it's just whoever has time messes with it.

[sullen dove]

Current cooldown whoaaa we do 10% more damage and hit rampage a little more

[formal ravine]

And you can see that in many other specs, mages get so much good changes even if it's qol shit, cus their dev plays the game, warrior is random shit piled on other random shit.

[sullen dove]

Think it is weird and true the discrepancy between some classes class trees

Like most other classes don’t have all of their core cooldowns and damage buffs in class tree and it’s all just the most random utility

[formal ravine]

The one attempt they made with titan's torment was beyond bad

[sullen dove]

Love shams 35 different totems

but like that’s also concerns for them that they can only tune spec tree and class tree is just a utility garage sale

[formal ravine]

and this is all even if we ignore target cap 5, they still need to make some more significant changes

I think if htey want to insist on 5 target cap, they gotta add something like the trinkets have, where dmg increases up to 5 targets hit

But i would prefer much more a full overhaul

[hushed ocean]

or cap everyone

[formal ravine]

Nah that's much worse

you will see no fun plays or pulls anymore

[fading sky]

Rb buffs ramp.more?

For 1m

And enrages u

[formal ravine]

both of our cds need a whole rethinking

Avatar is 2006 level of quality of a cd

adding 20% dmg is like the most basic bitch possible

And don't tell me "but it removes snares" cus i am willing to bet my testicle nobody uses it for that

[covert coyote]

every target hit by WW/TC increases the cleave % dam on our 5 targets up to 100%

[fading sky]

Nono

Avatar is king

[sullen dove]

be cool to change titans torment to like give you a bit of what scalecommander has, like during ava make your abilities hit 1 or 2 extra times on main target and also increase target cap a bit in aoe

[fading sky]

This

[sullen dove]

Not permanently multiple targets just with cds but even that’s something

[formal ravine]

Honestly in the current state give us practically 100% uptime on both reck and avatar and we still do not perform good enough either.

Both of the cds are just so dated

[sullen dove]

Yea I mean they’re barely cds

am feels good but is bad when you have really high reck uptime compared to not having it

Worst when uf was good

[formal ravine]

and while i do not find spear amazing either, at least back in shadowlands you could feel the spear difference

[sullen dove]

95% reck uptime and ur dmg is as flat as line as can be

[red berry]

i think am would feel better if reck was something more significant

[formal ravine]

They could do something with that, but even that is fully ignored

At least in shadowlands you placed down spear, used bladestorm and actually felt like you're doing SOMETHING

Now even spear is just a pretty button

[sullen dove]

Like if the trade off between ra and am with am giving you way more reck ra needs to make reck was stronger too

[fading sky]

Spear did dmg

And had low cd

[formal ravine]

Yeah and they could've given us taht version

but nooo evne that got watered down

And honestly i think it's much better at this point to split RA and AM

[fading sky]

Nah

[formal ravine]

being a choice nod is just a waste

[fading sky]

Its a true choice

[formal ravine]

Yes and it makes no sense how bad both of them play comparatively to other choice nods on specs

[red berry]

yeah they're both kind of pathetic

[formal ravine]

Even if we were to take both of them right now ,where would that place us ?

We would go up 1 ranking at best

[fading sky]

We cant cry bout no choices abd have em remove cvoicew

[formal ravine]

the problem is not the "no choices"

It's that our choices are practically meaningless

It's like pick if you want to eat rat shit or rat piss

Season 1 we had a slight difference here and there, we took AM to play ovinax for example and RA to play other bosses

Hence why i think we need a full overhaul

Anything below rampage is just a mess on the tree without much impact

Actually now that i think about it, if they had allowed the bleed from RA's BB to cleave, and we had the pre-nerfed version of UF that would've worked pretty decent this season

[sharp bluff]

hey guys in the maxroll fury guide it really confuses me because they talk about tracking imminent stacks but wowhead guide doesn't?

[formal ravine]

@sharp bluff take the conditional weak aura for execute and you're set

it makes a sound when the conditions are met

Taht's when you execute

[sharp bluff]

do you know if luxthos WAs are already set to track this?

[formal ravine]

I do not know , but i think not

[lapis hearth]

Hi, question.

i have a chance to buy Best in slots or House of cards on Mythic with my last 3 coins.
this is my gear right now.

pick House of cards, which will be an upgrade for my heroic House of cards
or pick Best in slots as upgrade for my already Mythic circuit breaker?
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/eu/silvermoon/Rústÿ

[winter shoal]

Sim question but probably BIS

[granite crypt]

why are you not considering dropping your crafted Claymore and rerolling Embellishments

[formal ravine]

Sim all of them?

[granite crypt]

that's probably the play

[formal ravine]

Sim the recrafts-bis-hoc and pick?

Also why do you not have the new belt?

[granite crypt]

duskthread lining is so much value plus ^ yeah just noticed that lmao

[sharp bluff]

i think they do, can anyone confirm

[lapis hearth]

i havnt been paying attention to delves lately >.<

[sullen dove]

would imagine no bis to bis better than heroic hoc to mythic

also depends how often you rekill but presumably hoc would drop more often than bis and maybe most other people in your guild will have already bought it by now

[formal ravine]

Yeah probably but sims is the best approach either way

[lapis hearth]

anyway, ill be off doing the overcharged delves... and ill get the BiS 🙂 thanks for the help 😄

[sullen dove]

ye it’s only like 3 delves to get and cap belt I think

and then like 1 more extra to get the right power

can do em all on t1 tho for max easyness

[sullen dove]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/925837396342362182/1388959383068741753/4x.avif?ex=6862e0ba&is=68618f3a&hm=395ec9def87e2e121ddcbe4b77d2c44a8251c78a8b8501dd108ae5293995313c&

[quiet breach]

no

I use luxthos it doesn't, u have to get a separate wa

[quiet breach]

prob BiS

[red berry]

decided to start pugging for keys again

i need 16s

\

https://tenor.com/view/nnn-day-43-nnn-day-43-gif-3967065189967572635

[formal ravine]

Oh please...

Give me a sec

Here, the life of pugging

[tepid cedar]

16 brew, slayer went harrrddddd

[red berry]

im feeling mentally ill

i dont have a lifetime tracker but ive played for years so im sure

im not far off

[modest condor]

about 1/16 invite rate

[dense elbow]

"hard" like jello

[modest condor]

higher than average for a dps warrior

[sharp bluff]

does anyone have WA recommendations for fury that already have the BT and Execute conditions or do I have to add those one top of the WA package I have?

[formal ravine]

I only installed this addon on s3 dragonflight, so it's not that long

[formal ravine]

And the worst part is i do not skip key levels, i don't apply to 2 level upgrades, only 1 rank up and that's after i've done half of them by my own key

[tepid cedar]

Brooo

Ur rude

😂😂

[dense elbow]

I could be ruder

[tepid cedar]

Nuder

[dense elbow]

want me to?

[tepid cedar]

Your right

[dense elbow]

cough

[cerulean badger]

Ello! Is Locknstalk trinket any good for m+ in aoe mode?

[modest condor]

no

[cerulean badger]

sheit

[tepid cedar]

That’s the best comp Kurt

Kitty

For btm

[modest condor]

LMAO

"guys i did 5mil overall"

conveniently cropped out the aug

[formal ravine]

Is bear part of btm?

[tepid cedar]

Yea

[sour frigate]

exposed

[tepid cedar]

Bear bdk and brew

[dense elbow]

Noone gets to say Slayer is good on watch

We trash, we live in it, we are it.

[formal ravine]

Doesn't matter , slayer is fun and that's all that matters

[dense elbow]

True

[red berry]

i mean i did 5.50 mil in a priory without an aug as slayer

[tepid cedar]

Haha slayer is amazing with Aug

[red berry]

that silly meme build even

[dense elbow]

Is it really a meme build tho? It gots its advantages

[red berry]

which i wont deny to playing loboz build in keys because i like odyns

[plush zephyr]

What is loboz exact build? Ima run it later

[dense elbow]

Best overall I had as slayer in prio was 5m or basically 5m, 4.9-5m area

[plush zephyr]

Resil keys I do what I want

[dense elbow]

That is with OF and stuffz

[red berry]

at this point you can run whatever and its fine

[tepid cedar]

Aoe stat pad

Press bt as much as fast as possible

lol

[modest condor]

are you guys still playing without ss?

[plush zephyr]

Ima just look him up again and copy his trees lol

[dense elbow]

CgEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA0YYGLmZYmlxMjFmZmxMMDjttZGzMzGzMjxMMjFbzwMmBAAAix2yALgBMDTgBbA

[plush zephyr]

Thanks dad

[red berry]

if playing loboz, yes. no slaughtering strike

raging blow is not even relevant in 2+ targets as loboz

[modest condor]

yeah

ww > rb on 3 targets

[red berry]

3, yes. sorry lmao

i havent ran an all warrior key this expansion yet

[dense elbow]

You should, they are always fun

[red berry]

they arre

[modest condor]

by all warrior you mean all fury warrior ofcourse

[red berry]

naturally

[dense elbow]

No pwarrior? Why you do our pbrothers dirty like that

Always wondered why ppl dont play OF, just eat the DPS loss

[red berry]

because of just that

DPS loss

[formal ravine]

If you're already shit either way might as well go for it lmao

[dense elbow]

^

[modest condor]

because OF is a boring button

[dense elbow]

I am sorry you feel that way

[formal ravine]

It was fun with avatar i guess

Now it is more boring for sure

You know what, make OS great again i miss it now

[red berry]

i miss

onslaught being 100% targets

er

cleaving for 100% lmao

[dense elbow]

I never liked OS, I just cant see it as anything but RB+

[modest condor]

it's just press button do damage, it doesnt do anything else (OF)

[red berry]

a button as anything else is

[dense elbow]

Was kinda more enjoyable when it cleaved 100% dam - as it was more power?

[formal ravine]

All of warrior is press button do dmg though?

[red berry]

its a big button that also gives you 60% rampage

[dense elbow]

100% cleave felt unique in a weird way

[red berry]

also, if you are playing mountain thane

odyns fury

way too much to fit in already

[dense elbow]

Ok, but lets talk about something positive we got:

[formal ravine]

They should make rampage cast more hits if the user mashed the button more while waiting for the GCD

[fast mural]

make it consume 80-130 rage and make it scale like execute

[edgy widget]

that's 95% of Warrior offensive buttons lol
though technically Onslaught does trigger Enrage and buff Rampage, and OF can trigger a couple buffs too so

[cobalt kernel]

i need this aura

[sullen dove]

95% of buttons

[formal ravine]

No you do not, depression already goes hard

[dense elbow]

Waiting for someone to check all the buttons and go "acthuallyh it is 94.5%"

[formal ravine]

I mean let's be real it's the most basic bitch of class in all of mmo world

How much flavour could the abilities have other than you press you hit

[edgy widget]

how much more flavor does any other DPS class have?

ngl I think yall are aggrandizing this

[cobalt kernel]

off meta spec is bound to not get invited i want to see of how many keys ive signed up for cuh

[edgy widget]

Ret can do a lot of stuff, but the majority of their offensive buttons are also just "press button, deal damage"

that argument applies to virtually everything when you dumb it down that far

[sullen dove]

every button for fury should proc fan of longswords

🎦

[dense elbow]

But, it is about the % of buttons. Maybe. I dunno. I have no clue why we talking about this.

[edgy widget]

you're the only one going on about "the % of buttons" lmao

[dense elbow]

Hms, edit train above me, got ya

[edgy widget]

no it didn't, you just missed the point - that if you dumb it down to "button deals damage" then the commentary applies to virtually everything

[formal ravine]

Now that i think about it even more, make onslaught great again, but make it trigger siegebreaker on the target

[edgy widget]

"that's just damage" lel

[dense elbow]

If that is the 'issue' or 'problem', then having less of a %of total buttons do dam would be better, no?

[edgy widget]

practically every button in the offensive rotation deals damage; that's why they're called offensive buttons

[dense elbow]

Paladin wins

[edgy widget]

if you wanna play a Paladin, go play a Paladin, don't try to turn Warrior into one

[dense elbow]

uhuh, I feel I am being pushed to some opinion I dont hold. But hey, we can talk laters o/

[fair swallow]

Try not to complain over nothing as a warrior challenge: impossible

[thick fossil]

I just really hate all classes that have their passive abilities carry them.
DH, Ret, etc. It's dumb.

[edgy widget]

Onslaught already does plenty of things, it's a better Raging Blow in almost every way

• the reason it's not used right now comes down to tuning and opportunity cost - you only have so many talent points to spend

now sure, you could give it some awesome and indispensable effect to ensure everyone wants to take it, though you have to ask at what cost - what are you willing to give up in order to take it and does that necessarily make the overall gameplay/rotation better or not?

[formal ravine]

Bruh, i was just joking

[edgy widget]

it wasn't about your siegebreaker suggestion, more commentary on the fact that the talent system requires you to lose something in order to gain something

[fair swallow]

Do you think we'll be switching back to s1 talents for slayer?

[edgy widget]

I barely even remember S1 talents lol

[dense elbow]

Did we swap stuff between 1 and 2?

[edgy widget]

Unbridled and OF nerf I guess

[gilded pawn]

yeah was some small stuff on the bottom row

[fair swallow]

Not anger management, and the talent that buffs RB in slayer

[dense elbow]

We didnt play AM? Damn, this season been so long I only remember AM

[red berry]

one of the ret buttons is. i think every 60 seconds? might be longer. the 30% ST 15% AoE button

thats flavor

it also does damage but idr how much off the top of my head

[formal ravine]

Yes that's why earlier i said that warrior is a mess and needs a full overhaul, atm our "pick one lose the other" is just not worth either or

[fair swallow]

We used to use reckless abandon during season 1

[edgy widget]

that's not a warrior problem, that's literally just how the talent system works

[red berry]

it would be nice if fury had competent capstones

[edgy widget]

you have 50 something talents and only 30 points

[south kayak]

Fury just doesn't have anything exciting IMO

[formal ravine]

Yes but ours has no value most of the time, so it is a warrior problem

[dense elbow]

I dont remember that, I am pretty sure I played AM either way, to storm more. But I dont doubt you are right, I just dont remember it

[red berry]

we did pla RA season one

[edgy widget]

na it was RA to start

[red berry]

yeah

[edgy widget]

AM didn't take over until they changed RA and massively buffed BT/RB in Season 2

[formal ravine]

ATM for example if you pick the "or" choice you're practically inting yourself

[edgy widget]

again, that's literally every class

and that's kind of inevitable when all you care about is absolute performance - there will always be a mathematically, practically, or perceived superior choice

[formal ravine]

But it's not. Some classes have choices against certain circumstances, now you're dumbing it down similar to the "press button do dmg"

If that was the case we wouldn't be in the mess we are now

[edgy widget]

the best you can do is try to tune it down so that the "worse" option is a small enough loss to not feel inconvenient (and to be fair, those differences really are a lot smaller than you'd think), but when people can so easily measure 0.1% differences, that's what they fixate on

[edgy widget]

like what?

[edgy widget]

anyway to answer your question, there's still a lot of polish to be done (and likely further tuning that will influence it), but as of right now the only change for Slayer is dropping VC for either 2/2 Critical Thinking or 1 CT + Unbridled

[formal ravine]

like i said, season 1 for example we picked AM in certain fights like ovinax, we also picked RA, now there's no situation RA is viable at all

[edgy widget]

ok... but is that not still just a matter of "take highest damage option and you're inting if you take the other?"

on the other hand, at the start of Season 1 we played Slayer practically everywhere, and now we actually play Thane quite a bit, so that variety still exists, just in different areas

[fair swallow]

I'm excited to see next season

[dense elbow]

We all are

[edgy widget]

I'm always a proponent of more variety and I agree that I'd like more circumstantial use of AM vs RA, though that's been a problem forever. IMO RA should be the go-to ST talent while AM is used for better cooldown timing, but a lot of that is the result of tuning rather than design

and there are so many moving parts in this game that it can be real hard to get things exactly where players want, even if they could all agree on what they wanted in the first place!

[formal ravine]

We also have very meaningless cds at the moment

[edgy widget]

I don't think they're necessarily "meaningless" but Warrior (especially Arms) does have a problem of too many to cycle through at the start of combat

[formal ravine]

A raw 20% dmg increase is a very dated and meaningless cd

[edgy widget]

Well it's not just a raw 20% damage increase with the torment talents, and it even has a few utility effects on top

[formal ravine]

Compare it to other abilities of similar cd? Look at combustion?

[formal ravine]

How often do you press avatar cus you're rooted?

[edgy widget]

ok so is it "meaningless" or just "not strong enough" because those are two different things

[modest condor]

Chatting tindral

[fast mural]

tindrell

[edgy widget]

its come up a few times - tindral, sennarth

not to mention PvP

[formal ravine]

What percent is that?

[edgy widget]

that's not the point

[formal ravine]

Cherry picking at it's finest?

[edgy widget]

that's not cherry picking at all lol

[formal ravine]

Where does avatar stand against combust, against incarn ?

It's literally bottom

[edgy widget]

I mean, yeah Avatar could be a stronger CD, but that also begs the question of whether Warriors "should" be a cooldown driven class?

But not every class is meant to be - some are spikey and others have flatter damage profiles; the game is healthier when there's more variety

[formal ravine]

They turned it into one, yet our cds do not have the impact to be one, or tried to at least, cus our sustained dmg is also not there atm.

[edgy widget]

But you said it was "meaningless" and that's not really the same as complaining that it's just not strong enough

[edgy widget]

I don't think that's true, at least not in raid - Warriors have been pretty solid performers this tier
maybe not in Mythic+, but that's not a cooldown issue

[fast mural]

do you count BS odyns fury and reck as CDs ?

[formal ravine]

Reck is a cd

[edgy widget]

They are cooldowns yes

[fast mural]

i feel like the only reaason they feel weak is cause they dont line up with each other and we just press them when they come up

[edgy widget]

I generally consider anything with a cooldown >30s or so to be a "cooldown" though some are more rotational than others

[fast mural]

just confused me that you are talking about avatar and not the others

when bladestorm isnt that huge either

[formal ravine]

What do you mean, i geniunely am confused by this statement. We press them when they come up but if something is within few secs you do hold still

[young swan]

not really tho, whenever u press reck u get avatar and vice versa so theres no situation where you're pressing one without the other. They just arent particularly impactful in a throughput sense

you also try to line up BS with either reck or avatar as well

[fast mural]

having half our CDs up every 30s makes the dmg profile look a lot flatter
if we had them up only at 1.5min suddenly they would feel more meaningfull

[formal ravine]

I believe the game has gone too far to just play around raw dmg amps, at least if that dmg amp is a 20% on 90 seconds

[fair swallow]

Pretty sure fury is more flatter damage profile rn

[formal ravine]

And raw dmg amps have the other issue, where they depend on your dmg, which currently is non existsant so it adds to the problem

Well non existant is exaggeration obviously but bad spot is more accurate

[waxen vale]

bruh

[edgy widget]

sounds like your main complaint is that you just want Warriors to do more damage

rather than any mechanical issue

[formal ravine]

No i also want them to play better

We got no dmg profile

[sullen dove]

reck abandon should be s3 df tier set

[edgy widget]

how does Avatar being stronger make Warriors "play" better?

[sullen dove]

big burst

[formal ravine]

There's practically absolutely no reason to bring a warrior right now in the raid

[edgy widget]

tell that to DKs

[sullen dove]

s3 df played the best

[formal ravine]

We fill no spot

[sullen dove]

when ava was a stronger cd

[dense elbow]

#GripIsaRaidCD

[edgy widget]

Battle Shout, good AoE, decently strong ST

[sullen dove]

Cuz it activated 1000% dmg bbs

[formal ravine]

Good aoe ?

Did you watch teh race?

[waxen vale]

did you?

[formal ravine]

Or did you see current dmg breakdowns ?

[fair swallow]

If I'm being honest raid damage is completely fine over the board, most classes are very close in terms of damage, m+ is the only real issue rn

[edgy widget]

dude the race was months ago

[formal ravine]

The only time warrior is "useful" this late in the rate is if your entire team agrees to let you pad the adds

[edgy widget]

if you think it has any relevancy on the current state of things, you're trolling us

[sullen dove]

aight lost a bit there talking about how useful specs are in the dying embers of a season

[formal ravine]

Okay what spot does warrior fill in current raid, what do you brinbg it for if you exclude the buff that can be had from tanking .

[fast mural]

how many of HoF guilds didnt have a warr on gally ?

[edgy widget]

And Arms is still one of the strongest ST specs in the raid lol

[sullen dove]

Warr has plenty good spots in the raid that do not matter whether u do or don’t bring one, same is true for any class

[edgy widget]

hell Fury ain't even that far behind

[sullen dove]

Can get cutting edge with a team of 10 dps warriors

or none

[fair swallow]

My guild does not pad for me and I still consistently get 90+ parses and top 5 damage

[edgy widget]

likewise Fury is one of the best specs on Gally, in large part due to its AoE

[waxen vale]

ya but mechanically we don't do enough damage

[edgy widget]

I don't know in what world you think Warriors are weak (in raid) right now

[fast mural]

bandit

[edgy widget]

M+ is a different situation ofc, but also for a different reason

[formal ravine]

I said they fill no slot, padding is not a slot filler

I never heard someone yeah this fight we should have warriors in

[waxen vale]

they literally fill a slot

[sullen dove]

mugzee execute???

[fast mural]

ansurekt didnt need warriors then

[earnest canyon]

you want at least one

[sullen dove]

I literally do 15% more dmg than the next person in my raid from intermission to kill

[edgy widget]

pretty sure Fury Warriors actually do more ST damage than the classes that beat their AoE

[formal ravine]

Again you want one for hte buff, exclude that cus it can be brought by tank, what role do we fill ?

[fair swallow]

Then the same can be said for hunters

[sullen dove]

EXECUTE???

[fair swallow]

But you still see hunters in raid

[edgy widget]

like on Gally, the only one who out AoEs me typically is a boomkin, but I beat their ST

[fast mural]

no

[edgy widget]

sometimes our DH puts out, idk

[waxen vale]

this guy is colossally winning ragebait award

[sullen dove]

psure no class in the game is gonna out dps good arms in mugzee execute phase, if you are still concerned about wiping to that arms is bis there

It doesn’t matter now since everyone has so much damage

but like arms is kinda the go to “your damage at the start of a fight is irrelevant for a massive burst at the end when it’s important”

[young swan]

i dont think hes ragebaiting hes just frustrated with warrior (understandably)

[edgy widget]

outside of perhaps the RWF, raw throughput is generally more important than any specific damage profile

[waxen vale]

well he should articulate actual points instead of just throwing everything at the wall and see what sticks

[edgy widget]

oh yeah, I mean that much is clear, but the complaints are very unfocussed

[formal ravine]

The issue is that anything we do there's a spec that does it better, so that's my point of we fill no spot in the raid

ON season 1 you actually wanted warrios for ovinax, or ansurek

[edgy widget]

Yeah at the start of Season 1, Wars were kinda OP lol, that's why they got nerfed

and technically you wanted DKs more than you wanted Warriors anyway

[sullen dove]

frost dk is about as good at us on ovinax maybe better

[formal ravine]

I am not referring to the first 3 weeks obviously, that would be me chery picking as well.

[fast mural]

even after the nerfs fury was still good on ansu

[formal ravine]

I mean overall you still wanted them on those fights

[sullen dove]

Ansurek prolly our only “top tier” fight mostly cuz adds died in 5 seconds

[edgy widget]

but you can say the same thing about Warriors lol

[formal ravine]

And if we extend it to m+ , it gets worse than the raid

[edgy widget]

overall raid stats, Warriors are comfortably middle of the pack, which is objectively balanced

on specific fights, Warriors range very high - Arms is still one of the better ST specs, and Fury is well represented on at least some of the MT fights

[fast mural]

gally adds are rather similar no ?

and they line up perfectly with our CDs

[sullen dove]

eh they last a little longer but also we just lost so much burst aoe since odyns died

[formal ravine]

Fury is well represented, when it's one of the MOST played specs in the game is kinda common sense though.

[sullen dove]

our cds aren’t like insanely good on them as much as ansurek

but yea still nice

[edgy widget]

when I say represented in this context, I mean on the high end of performance, not just overall # of players

e.g. they're in the top portion of performing specs on those fights

[formal ravine]

Yes but when the % of playerrs is a warrior, even on teh higher end the same percentage applies

[fair swallow]

Imo mythic + is an overall mess when it comes to balancing and is really hard to correctly balance thing

[edgy widget]

what

[formal ravine]

You got more warriors playing the game than rogues or evokers

So naturally you will see mroe of them on all ends

[fast mural]

thats not even the case anymore

[hushed gust]

Question. Who here is at a level of play to actually care? I’m specifically ruling myself out from mythic raid with this question,

[sullen dove]

it’s comparing the average best to the total which is the same any spec does

[edgy widget]

there are actually more Rogue parses than Warrior ones in Undermine

[fast mural]

and dont forget ret

[young swan]

yeah ofc but fury warrior is close to one of the only specs in the game that has literally never been a meta pick in the entire history of m+

[edgy widget]

but that has nothing to do with the fact that Warrior is performing high

[formal ravine]

As a total population no there are not, which brings our average up by people wanting to play the class

[earnest canyon]

m+ is fine, just everyone things they are the top 5%

*thinks

[formal ravine]

@earnest canyon that's not even remotely true

You do not need to be in the 4k ratings to see it

[sullen dove]

For as many “good warriors” as there are pushing the average up there are as many bad warriors pushing it down

That’s why it’s an avg

[edgy widget]

there are 34.6k Warrior parses and 37k Rogue ones

[sullen dove]

doesn’t matter how many people are playing the class

[south kayak]

I just want the rotational priority to make sense (Spender> Builder) and no hard caps to targets

[fair swallow]

Sadly there will always be a "meta" for m+, because even if you equalize damage profiles across the board it becomes a utility game, and the the cycle just repeats etc etc

[edgy widget]

also you're really deviating from the point, which was simply that Warrior performance is on the high end several areas of the raid

[south kayak]

2 words: target capped

[slim coral]

If you really wanna fix fury start by removing avatar

gimps the spec

[young swan]

im not complaining about a meta, im complaining about unfair representation even within the meta

i dont care if theres a meta as long as they try to rotate specs around so they get their day in the sun, and they certainly have tried to, but fury has not once hit that lottery

[formal ravine]

I also do not mind not being fully meta, i mind having 17k applications to join 1.1k

Because we bring literally nothing to m+

[fair swallow]

Too many people try to replicate m+ streamers and top 1%

[edgy widget]

more importantly though, it sounds like what you really want is just for Warriors to be best somewhere, which I understand... but it's also not an entirely reasonable ask

• there are 38 specs in the game, and simply not enough niches for everyone to be best somewhere
• buffing a class to be best somewhere means that another just got worse

So what happens is you're just transferring the problem - ofc you don't care, because the thing you want to play is best now, but it doesn't make the state of the game any better for the people who have now inherited your complaint

[slim coral]

by rotate you mean whoever fits best with mage and boomkin most of the metas

[young swan]

again, just an entirely different conversation

[edgy widget]

Mythic+ is an entirely different issue, born of an entirely different problem

[formal ravine]

No archi i don't give a flying fuck if we are BEST, i want to be able to be simply able to play the game and not reroll every season.