fury

[undone flower]

Or 2% of those classes with 50%+ mastery with 3k stat is less value

[south kayak]

Fair

[undone flower]

That’s why it is a flat amount / like the buff in algethar academy

[sour frigate]

Its 2 mastery points

So no less value

[undone flower]

Yes that’s how Blizz made it « equal » mastery for everyone

[edgy widget]

make spear a utility tether!

bladestorm succ sounds neat, but it's not something you'd ever spend a talent point on, and making it a baseline effect could prove problematic in some situations where targets need to be carefully positioned

[marble pilot]

I can see something like a death grip but call it a chain hook or something. But more for prot than either dps spec.
Attach it to ravager or something.

I guess thats more like slappy hands though.

I do think its weird we have roar/spear/odyns/bladestorm. All they all do similar things.

[modest condor]

just bladestorm and odyns is fine yeah

[vague tapir]

How do more experienced fury players feel about Thunderous Roar? As a newer player to the spec I’d love to see it deleted, it disrupts the flow of the rotation and just feels horrible to me.

[modest condor]

idk what you mean by disrupts the flow of the rotation but it's a pretty boring button

[marble pilot]

Its the same button as odyns to me.

[modest condor]

if we actually had a strong dot to interact with the 30% dot damage increase it might be more interesting

but right now the only thing we can really do is sync it with OF which we dont even play and even if we do the dot part of that is kinda weak

[marble pilot]

IMO prot gets spear, fury gets odyns. Roar goes away. And I dont care about arms. They can do whatever.

[vague tapir]

It doesn’t interact with the build / spend cycle at all, just makes that pause for a GCD.

[sand crest]

remember when blizz removed bladestorm because it negatively impacted the flow of fury, it made more sense to them that fury isnt interrupted in its casting

and then they added it back cause they needed something for slayer to make sense

[marble pilot]

I mean I dont fully disagree with that.

Im kinda mixed on bladestorm I guess. I like when it feels good to press and does big aoe damage.
I get a little annoyed on ST when I click it and wait 4 seconds to click something else.

[edgy widget]

they tried that with Heroic Leap, didn't last very long; I doubt they'd be willing to roll out Death Grip to more classes anyway

[marble pilot]

I think I agree it isnt super likely. If anything we get a rallying cry is X% more effective in 5 man content. And nothing else

[edgy widget]

tbf, they also changed Bladestorm considerably to make it fit the flow better - the issue wasn't the downtime, it was that it ran out Enrage

By both shortening Bladestorm to fit inside Enrage and making it generate enough rage to recast Rampage, they fixed the only issue Fury ever had with Bladestorm, and in a rather elegant way

[trail thistle]

Yo archi is there any sim results for new belts? Which one looks better for us both arms and fury.

[marble pilot]

As much as we meme about getting a battle rez or a lust as warriors I dont think it happens. Just changes to the utility we already have.

[edgy widget]

there are, I'll post in #updates-midnight by Monday

guides are actually already updated if you really care to look

[trail thistle]

Ty sm sir o7

[edgy widget]

na, they're not giving War a BR, though it's a funny idea to bat around

[sand crest]

I agree that makes it feel better, but when thane is the aoe talent, and in st slayer we spam rb after bs even if enrage runs out, its still kind of weird to me

but thats more a ss being tied to rb problem

than a bladestorm one

[edgy widget]

Slayer spamming RB after BS has nothing to do with BS itself

[sand crest]

yeah thats true

[edgy widget]

also that's like a 0.3% optimization lmao, it's not the kind of thing Blizz purposefully designed for, it's just something that happens to work out slightly better because of convoluted math

[marble pilot]

Wanna see some tier sets. Hopefully in the next couple weeks with PTR likely coming out for season 3.
Curious what they wanna force us into. Onslaught doesnt see play neither does odyns.

Cant say I want to play Onslaught though. It isnt my favorite button

[fading sky]

I try to say it every chance i get

[marble pilot]

Thanks for doing the work. I know it generally works out that way but sad to see its just the stat procs in aoe. Its more "fun" to me to see damage procs firing off.

[last sparrow]

is there somewhere i could find the simc string to sim the belt?

[quiet geyser]

Dunno man, DF season 2 was widely recognized as fun to play, onslaught was used

Also, i think it would actually be fun to play onslaught with slayer, if it was actually tuned properly. Think about how easy it will be to get 5 stacks after bladestorm lol

[orchid dagger]

I love it when PvE players open their mouth and say dumb shit

Imagine taking away a button that says "the party gets +5% free damage"

[remote bobcat]

elaborate

[orchid dagger]

Battlefield Commander

[remote bobcat]

ahh

I mean fair

but also grundenz is not very knowledgeable

[orchid dagger]

As part of the other shit it does, it makes Roar roid the party on all targets hit

[remote bobcat]

dont fault him

[orchid dagger]

Then he shouldn't open his mputh

Simple as

[marble pilot]

Yeah I was thinking about that interaction. Tier set could make the stacks go higher so bladestorm>onslaught>2/3 raging blow> rampage could be 9-11 stacks. Would be crazy

[remote bobcat]

i mean he very blatantly said "idc about arms", it cant be more obvious of a shitpost

[orchid dagger]

Considering half of the dumbest shit I hear from PvE players, its likely a honest take

[marble pilot]

Do pvp players still exist?

[modest condor]

nah

[remote bobcat]

even if it was, you should immediately be able to discount it instead of getting ragebaited like this

[orchid dagger]

Yes, despite all of the shitters running around playing m+

[edgy widget]

there'll be raidbots options for it next week

[orchid dagger]

We lost Anni entirely due to PvE players. Fuck em

[edgy widget]

We lost Annihilator cause it didn't do what Blizz set out for it to do

[clever path]

why is fury that bad in m+ compared to arms ?

[edgy widget]

had absolutely nothing to do with PvE or PvP players

[elfin tinsel]

hello guys i have question

[remote bobcat]

we lost Anni because it wasnt a very good thing to have

[orchid dagger]

For pve

[elfin tinsel]

barbaric training seems better than sidearm so why most guides pic sidearm?

[edgy widget]

I mean that part is arguable; like anything some people liked it, some didn't

[orchid dagger]

PvP it was goated

[edgy widget]

but that's not why it was removed

again, I'm going to say definitively that its removal had absolutely nothing to do with PvE or PvP specifically

[remote bobcat]

you dont see the problem with this right?

[orchid dagger]

The issue is that survivability of dps isn't a problem for pve

[modest condor]

so you're saying that we lost anni because of pvp players

[orchid dagger]

I'm saying the opposite

[edgy widget]

everyone always blames the other guy 🙄

[edgy widget]

we didn't, lol

I'm telling you, for a fact

[orchid dagger]

We lost Anni because of it not "being right for pve" and pvp players got fucked for it

As per usual

[edgy widget]

no, we lost it cause it didn't do what Blizz wanted it to do in the first place

[marble pilot]

Ill take the blame. Isn't often I accidently rage bait someone.
Haven't cared about pvp in WoW since like TBC. They make real pvp games these days if you wanna pvp.

[edgy widget]

but also just cause you lose a strong option doesn't mean the spec can't still end up strong

as I recall, Fury actually did have a pretty high point in TWW PvP despite not having Anni any longer

[orchid dagger]

Until all of the pve nerfs back to back to back

[remote bobcat]

Blizzard didnt want fury to not use raging blow, thats why they removed annihilator in favor of other stuff. It just so happens to be strong in pvp but that doesnt mean its what blizzard intends the spec to be, whether you play pve or pvp doesnt matter

it also isnt very interactive

[edgy widget]

that's my point - tuning is a revolving door in this game. Trying to distil it down to "omg we got fucked by this change" is... kinda silly when Blizz retunes every 2 months anyway

[edgy widget]

less not wanting them to not use Raging Blow (though we'll call it half right), and more that they had originally envisioned it as a way to make the gameplay easier to keep up with... but Annihilator didn't really do that, it just changed which buttons you were pressing

Separating Enrage out into Powerful/Furious replaced that

[orchid dagger]

So I should reroll every time we catch a nerf? This isn't FF14 where I just click Job Change and call it a day

[edgy widget]

No? What does that have to do with anything that was said?

[remote bobcat]

I mean yea but that, in the end, wasnt what blizz wanted the spec to be

so they changed it

🙂‍↕️

[edgy widget]

yes, I said that 10m ago

[remote bobcat]

ye

but buhsac isnt getting it

[orchid dagger]

If we are going to be taking nerfs, why play the class when a better one is performing

[edgy widget]

he's stuck on the end state of things - but the reality is that tuning, design, and resulting performance are all individual steps along that path

[edgy widget]

again, this really isn't related to the conversation at hand

and you can say that about anything; if all you ever care about is being the best, then yeah you should be prepared to reroll whenever changes are made

[marble pilot]

You could say the same thing for any class. Why play fury in m+ when we are in the bottom 3 dps. People are still doing the highest level stuff.

[orchid dagger]

No, I'm sick of "PvE change means PvP gets a unneeded nerf/buff"

[edgy widget]

but if what you care about is playing the thing you personally find enjoyable, then you can't expect it to always perform at the point you want it to

[remote bobcat]

anni wasnt a pve change.

thats the entire point

[marble pilot]

Less than 5% of the player base hits 1k rating. Getting upset that the game is balanced for the other much larger % is a crazy take

[edgy widget]

Then to be perfectly honest, you need to find a different game, because while I sympathize with your opinion, it is an inevitability in WoW - the two are intrinsicly linked and will never be fully decoupled

that's just the reality of the situation

it's something you simply have to come to terms with, because it ain't gonna change

but the bigger point in there was that you shouldn't see "design change" as "buff/nerf" - again, Fury lost Annihilator going into TWW, but Fury still had strong performance in PvP (at least for a time), so can you really say it was a "nerf?"

or at the very least can you not say that whatever loss came from Anni wasn't made up for in other places? Tuning and design are indepedent for that very reason

[orchid dagger]

Design changes lead to buffs/nerfs directly

[edgy widget]

yes, but they are independent

[orchid dagger]

That's like saying you shouldn't care how A+B=C

[edgy widget]

you can have tuning changes with or without design changes
and vice versa

That's what independent means

[orchid dagger]

You still should care about the entire equation

[edgy widget]

if they were dependent then they would not have buffed anything after removing Annihilator, or after changing Thunderous Word's mechanics, etc they would have simply made the change and left it at that

Again my point is that while Annihilator was removed, Fury in of itself wasn't outright worse for it - it still had a competitive showing in PvP (simply for different reasons, because other things were tuned)

[orchid dagger]

They introduced the two Enrage passives because people were going to be pissed at Anni being removed and needed to fill the gap in some way

[edgy widget]

Well no

[empty mist]

Anni deserved deletion
Don't @ me

[edgy widget]

They introduced the two Enrage passives because that accomplished the gameplay goal that they originally set out to do with Annihilator - giving players a way to slow down the high-haste pace of combat

Did you ever see the original DF alpha version of Annihilator? lol it was very different from the one we actually played

[orchid dagger]

Remind me, its been a hot minute

[edgy widget]

The original actually did slow down combat because you had nothing else to fill with, Deft Experience didn't reduce BT's cooldown yet (Honed Reflexes did, but by a lesser amount so it wasn't a smooth fill) and RA was also different

but it felt fuckin awful cause you were just... standing there with nothing to do lol

actually for awhile it was bugged so you could still cast RB, but that wasn't intended

it was also restricted to 1hrs for some god forsaken reason

[undone flower]

@empty mist

[edgy widget]

and they specifically cited the intent of Annihilator was to slow down gameplay - essentially an accessibility option for people who complained that Fury's high haste gameplay was too frenetic to keep up with

but the first version felt awful, so they changed it up a bit, and other changes got made along the way (moving BT CD reduction to Deft and 1.5s instead of 0.5s was a major improvement)

[orchid dagger]

Make SMF a real choice again

[marble pilot]

Starting to wonder who the troll is in here. Me or this guy.

[undone flower]

Make SMF transmog thing

Pls

[edgy widget]

except at that point, it just became the same exact same gameplay - you pressed Slam and BT instead of RB, but ultimately it had the exact same speed, so it didn't accomplish what it was designed to

that's why they removed it and went to Powerful/Frenzied Enrage instead

[orchid dagger]

Bro I keep two 2hs, two 1hs and a shield in my bags at all times

[edgy widget]

good for you, most people don't want to lol

[undone flower]

Powerful/ Frenzy is really good idea 👍

GG multi dollar company

[orchid dagger]

They can't be fucked to

[edgy widget]

FWIW, though SMF has never been a real choice

[marble pilot]

I keep a single one hander. But thats just for when im tanking stuff.

[edgy widget]

the only time it even remotely was is Cataclysm, and even then... nobody cared
even in classic cata, nobody cared lol

[empty mist]

Can we remove Slaughterhouse next

[orchid dagger]

They can't be fucked to actually sit there and go "do we actually work on SMF vs TG Warrior" like they do with DK

[undone flower]

But sometime I wish I could mog 1 h on my fury bc I’m a fucking gnome, THEY ARE SO BIG

[edgy widget]

TBF it's easier for DK than War

[orchid dagger]

That's because for DK it's all on the individual spells and not a single passive

[edgy widget]

no, not at all; it works on DK simply because they only need 3 weapons instead of 4 and don't need weapon enchants

[undone flower]

I tried to play SMF+ attack speed odyn capstone

[edgy widget]

attack speed is a huge red herring in this game

[undone flower]

ST was the worst I’ve ever seen

[edgy widget]

that's cause SMF and Dancing Blades are both pretty poop lol, not to mention OF itself not being very good ST (even in S1)

[undone flower]

Then I tried onslaught capstone / play around SS stacks to almost always rampage at 5, ST was awful doggo

[marble pilot]

Attack speed used to matter back in like classic/tbc. Then damage got normalized and I dont think anyone cares anymore.
I havnt looked at attack speed in years.

[empty mist]

Arms cares about attack speed

[edgy widget]

Even back then, Attack Speed didn't work the way people think it did

[empty mist]

DH did for a bit as well

[edgy widget]

no it doesn't

[empty mist]

Yeah we do

Cause we ain't playing all that fancy rage refund in arena

And IP on CD

[orchid dagger]

It mattered for longer than that, but yeah at some point they normalized it and we occasionally see weird shit like the DF Dagger Surv build that was a meme until it got shot out back like Old Yeller

[oblique thistle]

The battle of "nuh uh" versus "yuh huh"

[undone flower]

Thx God

[oblique thistle]

You're welcome

[empty mist]

Nuh uh

[edgy widget]

you benefit from attack speed, yes, but saying you "care about it" as if it's a major build consideration or something you specifically try to min/max is a misnomer, because there are so many limited sources of it

The same is true in PvE - yes you want War Machine and Wild Strikes, but they're automatic picks and you want them for effectively the same reason that you want Armored to the Teeth or any other damage scaling

[undone flower]

Im sorry for the « work » folder

[oblique thistle]

No you're not

It's ok I still forgive you

[empty mist]

Aight, but it matters a lot more for arms than fury we can agree yeah?

[edgy widget]

Well yeah ofc it matters more for Arms, simply because that's where 90% of its rage gen comes from

[empty mist]

Ye we agree

[edgy widget]

attack speed does have a lot of under the hood shit that people aren't aware of though

[edgy widget]

especially in Classic lol - increasing attack speed actually lowered your damage

[undone flower]

But if you had odyn fury capstone in your field of view but it costs 4 points to take it

For 20% attack speed

[marble pilot]

Yeah you wanted the damage range on the weapon to be higher. Which almost always happened with slower weapons.
Maybe not range but the max damage to be higher.

[orchid dagger]

Because AS mattered

[edgy widget]

No I mean attack speed buffs, like the Juju actually lowered your damage
not talking about slow vs fast weapons

[orchid dagger]

Mostly due to how Heroic Strike works

[marble pilot]

Ah I just meant for ability damage. The slower your weapon the more they hit for. Which was good for pvp cause uptime was more variable.

[edgy widget]

Yes, but that's not what I'm talking about

I'm talking about the stat, Attack Speed

not base weapon speed (which was also normalized very early in Vanilla btw)

increasing your attack speed lowered your damage in Vanilla

[marble pilot]

Honestly forgot that was a stat

Armor pen was a thing at one point too wasnt it?

[edgy widget]

if you applied a buff, like Juju Flurry that increased your attack speed by +3%
it also reduced your damage by -3% to compensate

[orchid dagger]

Yes

[edgy widget]

99% of players never knew, because 99% of players don't have any idea how wow combat works in the first place

[marble pilot]

Im so glad we dont have to care about getting to the hit chance cap anymore. Or stacking resistances for fights

[edgy widget]

mostly in TBC/Wrath, yeah, though it's popped up in a few other places throughout various expansions

[orchid dagger]

It leads to funny shit like Colossus Smash getting fucked over

Stood in front of the boss? Get fucked lol

[marble pilot]

Not only that but you parry hasted melee which could kill tanks.

[edgy widget]

that's completely separate mechanic, actually still exists in some places too

[clever belfry]

don't stand in front of bosses innit

[marble pilot]

Yeah except for when you gotta stack on the tank but also not get parried

Wasnt too often but it did happen

[undone flower]

Wreck throw ignoring armor just means it does the shown damage on tooltip ?

[clever belfry]

Yes

[edgy widget]

sans shields, yes

[undone flower]

Yes I understand you need to quick calculate for that tooltip on absorb lel

[orchid dagger]

Quick maffs

[marble pilot]

Also assumes no passive damage reductions.

[edgy widget]

tbf it was also a lot easier to stay behind the boss back then, encounters are way more dynamic now than they used to be

[marble pilot]

Or active ones I guess

[undone flower]

How much it does ? I’m not logged in, it’s like 300-400k I guess ? X6 on absorb

[edgy widget]

Blizz was largely built on DnD and EQ mechanics though, many of which are... very wonky in a modern online game

[marble pilot]

Yeah I fully agree. I was a classic-legion raider with several CEs during it. Then missed from BFA till season 3 dragonflight. Most of the old stuff and mechanics in general im good with. Its the stuff that I missed from BFA on that catch me off guard sometimes.

[edgy widget]

these days encounters are just glorified group puzzles

the actual numbers checks are almost always trivialized before the vast majority of the playerbase gets to them

[fading sky]

I loved arp and hit and expertise

[orchid dagger]

^

[undone flower]

One day they will remove raid boss parry + backshots on tanks

[fading sky]

But its shit for game

[marble pilot]

TBH im kinda annoyed at the we want to limit weakauras. But then also add stuff like 4 conditionals to track for abilities to know when they are worth pressing.

[edgy widget]

Well... that's kinda misleading

[marble pilot]

I didnt hate armor pen. And I think it could be fun for some trinkets. Hit rating and resistances were ass though

[undone flower]

I don’t think Blizz designed fury to press BT at those weird crit %

[edgy widget]

^

[fading sky]

100% weak aura removals should.be boss related

Not player

[remote bobcat]

bloodcraze existing
yea so we're just not gonna press BT until it crits YEP

[marble pilot]

Thats fair. But it is the outcome. And we are not the only class.

[edgy widget]

its the same as the "spamming RB after BS" conversation earlier - that wasn't a design intent, it's just something we discovered could be done for a (basically trivial) gain

but because it's so easy to do, we just go ahead and do it

[marble pilot]

And it also exists with execute.

[edgy widget]

if we played in a world without WeakAuras, no we probably would not try to do as many small optimizations, because they simply wouldn't be worth the mental bandwidth

[undone flower]

The clear purpose design goal imo rn, is you press BT when you can’t RB anymore / on ST

And no overcap rage moment

[edgy widget]

But also, Blizzard has been very vocal about not only improving the base UI in the absence of WAs, but also to curtail weird tech that requires specific tracking in teh first place

in which I know that Execute has been specifically referenced

[orchid dagger]

RIP Condemn & Death Sentence, we miss you

[oblique thistle]

Plus the version of the CD tracker we have right now is only the beginning -- they plan to iterate on that further to smooth out pain points anyways

[edgy widget]

I have my doubts that it'll end up anywhere near where we want it

[oblique thistle]

That's fair

[marble pilot]

To be fair though the people in class discords are also not the main group for it

[edgy widget]

but if they address the underlying reasons to use such specific WA-style tracking, then we don't really need it either

[undone flower]

I try to play my rdruid with cd manager / it is not that bad, but there are cringe thing I wish I could do

[orchid dagger]

Yeah but we shouldn't be balancing for the lowest common denominator either

[oblique thistle]

What blizzard deems as necessary information may not align with what the playerbase thinks, but I suppose from their perspective they would rather that players feel less incentivised to optimize to that extent anyways so that they can balance encounters better

[edgy widget]

again, if we played in a world where WAs (and similar) never existed, then we very likely wouldn't care about keeping track of BT crit - at most we'd assign a simple rule like "use BT at x-stacks of Bloodcraze" because trying to keep track of various crit procs would just require too much bandwidth to bother for such a small gain

[undone flower]

But the main thing rn for me to play more « base game » is : plater

[edgy widget]

but because we do live in a world where a WA can shout at you when you reach the magical threshold, we do it - WAs make it easy, and therefore that 0.4% gain is worth pursuing

granted, each class/spec is a lil diff in this regard - Wars are much more straightforward than say UHDK

[opal monolith]

Cooldown manager, button assist, one button , they're all measures to treat symptoms blizzard refuses to address the core issue, just make some specs simpler and remove all the unnecessary modifiers, #opinion

[marble pilot]

Was meant for the rotation helper. Not for balancing or weakura management. More saying the people that use the built in rotation helper are more likely to not have any weakauras to begin with and are more likely to not be tracking these things anyway. And will never understand why they are being tracked.

[oblique thistle]

We already got that a long time ago and the playerbase hated it

[edgy widget]

well yes, but also no because Blizz has specifically cited that as something they want to address at the same time

[orchid dagger]

You tell an Arcane Mage that their spec is being dumbed down more and your car will be bombed

[fading sky]

I mean u would have to kill sims as well

[edgy widget]

not necessarily

[fading sky]

Coz if sims shows an potential for a rotstion

[marble pilot]

Arcane mage is weird to me. Like it looks easy. But I feel like if I wanted to learn it at a top level there are so many little things.

[edgy widget]

there are already things sim optimizations that we don't actually use

[opal monolith]

I'll believe it when I see it

[fading sky]

We will kill ourselves to do it

[oblique thistle]

Like I remember the days where people were complaining more and more about class homogenization and the MoP talent trees being antithetical to WoW, the increased complexity I would argue is something that we directly asked for

[edgy widget]

ofc it is

but also... the WoW community isn't of one mind

and people's desires do change over time

actually Ion gave a really good talk on that not too long ago

[opal monolith]

Class homogenization is about giving everyone the same toolkits rather than rotational complexity imo

[orchid dagger]

Yeah, because the CoD style talent trees sucked more dick than the server filter

[opal monolith]

Half of the nodes on the current talent Trees are bloat, I wouldn't want to revert to mop but this is flawed aswell

[marble pilot]

Complexity will always be a split topic. Some people think things have gotten too complex again. Others think half the classes are still too simple

[edgy widget]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/20-years-of-warcraft-meeting-players-where-they-are-376972 whole talk is good, but long - start watching ~4:42 for the talent stuff

he specifically gets into the shift from classic trees -> MoP trees -> TWW trees and how they keep kinda going around in a circle

[oblique thistle]

Skill expression is something that players value equally if not more, like when the one button rotation assist was announced I saw some players being like "I've mained feral druid for 10 years and now my mastery over the spec is being eroded by a single button"

It's a ridiculous point I know, but the sentiment is definitely there. People that care about skill expression in complex rotations want that complexity to remain so that they feel their time investment learning and mastering it isn't completely eroded

[opal monolith]

I couldn't care less about those 30 passive buffs to stats or damage on abilities when you can level to level cap in a few hours, if the leveling still took days or weeks then I can see incremental power gain per level fun but jfc who cares about clicking those +5x damage nodes

[marble pilot]

And complexity=/= button bloat. You can have both or neither at the same time.

[edgy widget]

"I've mained feral druid for 10 years and now my mastery over the spec is being eroded by a single button"
Literally nobody has to worry about this, this is not a real concern lol

[oblique thistle]

I know that's why I said the point he was making was ridiculous

Less about the actual point and more about the sentiment

[opal monolith]

Can you even use it in raid

[edgy widget]

sentiment may exist, but it's based on false understanding, and that's something that can only be addressed through education (which the person needs to be willing to accept... many are not)

[orchid dagger]

Hey man, those Gnomer runs in Vanilla probably gave that Feral PTSD

[marble pilot]

Well no one that is actually good at it. I know some people that say they have been an X class for years and they are still trash at it and I expect they will suddenly have more dps this week

[edgy widget]

yeah ofc you can

Actually I'm pretty sure that War has one of the best assisted rotations, simply because War is such a straightforward class you really don't need all the hyper conditional shit

[orchid dagger]

Your dps just goes down the shitter when you do

[marble pilot]

Depends if you are a 15% parser then it might go up

[oblique thistle]

Tettles did an experiment where he compared sims of all the classes with the rotation assist and interestingly destruction warlock did the best

I found that to be a bit odd

[opal monolith]

I couldn't play with it even if it gave near equal DPS, and yet I don't want alot of complexity either,I just want a good flow in the rotation and funny numbers that give dopamine

[orchid dagger]

Best as in least dps loss?

[edgy widget]

which goes back to my earlier point - we will chase those 0.4% optimizations because WAs make it so easy to do

but in a world where addons and WAs didn't exist, if you were able to do 98-99% of your damage by following a simple ordered list, then very few players would ever care to bother with those 0.4% optimizations that require them to stare at buff bars and do mental math

[oblique thistle]

Yeah

[marble pilot]

That was assuming no movement. Which might make it true. But the rotation helpers are bad at movement and castign from what ive heard.

[orchid dagger]

By design

[opal monolith]

Very accurate

[marble pilot]

Yeah just saying a destro lock in a real fight probably isnt the best even if it is the best on a target dummy. Cause they have to move. Where as melee doesnt get effected by it.

At least with the helper

[oblique thistle]

Ret is probably better when talking about practicality

[edgy widget]

it varies by ST/AoE/etc, also assist vs one-button, but yeah hard casters have a much easier time with it than fast instant classes

[noble elm]

Which brings an interesting scenario if they do eventually restrict data flow and try to pull back weakauras - can they effectively put the cat back in the bag? Or will players forever be griping that the blizzard implementation is lacking - even if it turns out to be objectively good for the health of the game

[edgy widget]

players will adapt

they always do

[orchid dagger]

People will bitch regardless

[edgy widget]

doesn't mean they won't complain about it though

[orchid dagger]

But they will probably nut up

[noble elm]

That’s my mentality every patch and buff/nerf cycle. Everything will normalize, it always does

[edgy widget]

p much, why I always say that tuning is a revolving door

[noble elm]

But like archi says, people are never ready to accept that

[orchid dagger]

WHERE THE FUCK IS MY GLAD STANCE REE

[edgy widget]

in MoP classic

5.4 though, so it's pretty terrible

[noble elm]

Have you played prot warrior this patch? Glad stance is back baby

[marble pilot]

I would love a melee dps that uses spear and shield.

[opal monolith]

Change is change wheter it's good or bad, people tend to get annoyed at first but adaption will always follow

[orchid dagger]

I've played prot war in pvp, its about as close as we get

[edgy widget]

the wow player base is way too large to ever have a consensus on anything, so trying to appeal to everyone is a fool's errand anyway

[noble elm]

It’s definitely glad adjacent in pve right now

[oblique thistle]

Prot owns this season

[opal monolith]

Think you can apply that to human nature at large tbf

Just how we are

[torpid cypress]

to be fair dps assist can be 100% flawless it will always be a downgrade from learning the real rotation

[opal monolith]

Habitual creatures

[coarse nest]

I agree with the sentiment that adding buttons to a spec you’ve gained mastery for overs years is annoying

[marble pilot]

Ive been having some fun as prot. I dont really like hitting demolish though. Its annoying when you click it and then have to move. Skill issue with not knowing the fights better but still. Locking movement as a melee feels bad

[noble elm]

I dunno I think if they gave everyone one button 100% effective with no drawback then everyone would use that. People always follow the path of least resistance

[oblique thistle]

But big number 🙂

[orchid dagger]

PvP Col doesn't even bother with Demo tbh

[oblique thistle]

Big number make brain happy

[noble elm]

They would say they don’t use it - but they would

[torpid cypress]

yeah 100% effective no drawnback 1 button yeah

[opal monolith]

I was so happy to unequip fyralath and then you spec into colossus ...

[orchid dagger]

You just sit on stacks and hope the other melee is too stupid to not respect the button

[noble elm]

lol yeah demolish is basically fyralath

[coarse nest]

The addition of demolish was a real challenge for me to comfortably keybind but I recognize that’s a personal problem and not a game design problem

[torpid cypress]

but having to react on ability will always be less dps than just knowing what your going to press in advance

[orchid dagger]

The problem is knowing people didn't like playing around Fyr'alath and then Blizz going "fuck you here's evergreen Fyr'alath"

[edgy widget]

Demo is a lot easier than Fyr'alath though

[orchid dagger]

Paladins and DKs dodged a bullet

[edgy widget]

with the exception of the auto-move

[torpid cypress]

issue is if they remove addons they will have to down dumb the raid a bit

[edgy widget]

that's kinda their goal

[torpid cypress]

they make them so hard since we have all these tool otherwhise it wouldnt be a challenge

[opal monolith]

Yes but this is good change

[coarse nest]

Dumb down dungeon and raid mechanics, dumb down the complexity of most specs

[edgy widget]

there's been a continual arms race between executing more complex mechanics quicker vs using computational addons to solve them - that's what they're trying to change

[coarse nest]

Games going to feel totally different

[opal monolith]

Sometimes its necessary to take a step back as someone who played wow 10-20 years and take in consideration what the (yes they exist) "new player experience" is like

[torpid cypress]

not rly diferent but more like 10 years agbo

[edgy widget]

so yeah, they will have to pull back a bit on the mechanical complexity, and the amount of time players have to execute them in

the big part though is just time

most of the mechanics in WoW still aren't that hard even without WAs, you just don't have time to communicate who is going to go where because they're setup to go off in 3-4 seconds

Mekkatorque gets referenced often as kind of the "ideal" for an encounter that requires players to communicate and actually gives them time to do so, as opposed to using a WA to automatically solve the puzzle

[opal monolith]

I look forward to see what they have in store ngl

[whole yacht]

i do too, but im kind of worried about how itll be implimented

[opal monolith]

I'm cautiously positive

[edgy widget]

Well that's the thing isn't it? Change can be controversial and even scary, but it can also be exciting, because change means new experiences and opportunities

[opal monolith]

Absolutely

[marble pilot]

Im still excited to see tier sets for season 3. I like when we get rotational shakeups. Hoping for something fun.

[edgy widget]

honestly Gallywix is a really good "WA-less" encounter

[opal monolith]

You're hoping they will be rotationally impactful ? Or they hinted they will be in S3?

[marble pilot]

Im hopeful its rotational this time

Or impacts talents we dont use right now

[edgy widget]

can argue whether he was too easy for the final boss of the tier (though frankly I think some people have been stockholmed into believing that bosses need to require several hundred pulls to be satisfying), but in terms of design, Gally was a fun boss to prog that didn't require the kind of setup and tracking WAs that many other bosses do

[opal monolith]

Pretty decent boss, even though I haven't progged it myself ,I rage quit mythic raiding after getting CE in amirdrassil

[torpid cypress]

To be fair, I just got back to TWW from WoD, and I'm not a fan of WA. DBM/BigWigs should really be all we need.

[opal monolith]

I had a very stressful irl time during amirdrassil prog and I won't deny it didn't have its impact but I swear tindral and fyrak prog burned me out like nothing before

[undone flower]

It will be fun to see the effects on wcl rankings / like green parse will go higher

[noble elm]

It’s pretty clear (to me at least) that they are trying to tone back the encounter design requiring tons of weakauras after the shitshow of ovinaxx

[edgy widget]

not just ovinax, but that is the most recent example, yeah

[undone flower]

I hang out with more casual guilds, sprocket and balls are awful ones for WAs too

[edgy widget]

green/gray parsing is usually a result of survival issues more so than numerical performance

yeah, not as big of shit shows, but still annoying ones

[opal monolith]

Hot take, painsmith boss design was kinda peak

[clever belfry]

sprocket was almost WAless
if only mines weren't color coded

[edgy widget]

post-nerf Stix doesn't really require much in the way of WAs, though there are certainly helpful WAs

Sprocket would have been a much more straightforward boss if mines weren't color coded yeah

[torpid cypress]

pretty sure stix can be done no wa pretty easy people just have to get used to ball sproket would be a pain

[edgy widget]

it can now, pre-nerf was a diff story though

but pre-nerf Stix was a shit show, so not exactly ideal to strive for regardless

[undone flower]

Or, color coded but no mine soak vuln / 10 sec vuln

[edgy widget]

that would have just led to the same 4 people getting all the mines

[undone flower]

So ppl can send 4 same ppl each time

[edgy widget]

but yeah, that could be an option

[clever belfry]

That would've sucked

[undone flower]

It’s the 5th boss

[edgy widget]

would have made the fight less interesting sure, but it would have fixed the WA issue

[clever belfry]

its just 2 hunter 2 mage all mines wow cool

[undone flower]

Most melees are target dummy hitting sprocket

Already

[edgy widget]

I think if you're going to do that, you expand it - make it like 8-12 mines, so that most of the raid still needs to soak every time

you're just always getting the same mine, so the guesswork is removed, but the gameplay requirement is still there

[torpid cypress]

8 to 12 people running around with polarity would have been painful AF

[edgy widget]

not that much; if the mines didn't have color requirements, you just keep people on diff sides of the room

[undone flower]

The boss is a dance already king dojo

Putting a different move to a dance doesn’t make it harder

[edgy widget]

but at any rate, yeah it could have been a fairly WA-less boss, if not for the mine colors

the point isn't to make it harder, its to make the boss engaging in a way that doesn't require WAs

you can make a boss "harder" in any number of ways, even simple number tweaks

[undone flower]

(Silken didn’t needed WAs) so they can do it next time, I trust

[torpid cypress]

pretty sure all fight can be done w/o WA beside sprocket and maybe stix

[undone flower]

But I think they should put a dance fight every tier like that / color coded not mandatory

I saw a guild do stix without the assignments but it was painful to witness

1 dude was charged each time to grab all casters when balls

And others just improv do bombs

[coarse nest]

Gallywix in my mind is an ideal difficulty assuming WAs are not needed

[sullen dove]

dented as fuck

[undone flower]

Gallywix is a goated boss for the design they seem to aim with their words

[sullen dove]

got dudes doing entire laps around the boss arena every time

[undone flower]

Yes the dude who had to grab them he had to travel a lot

It took them maybe 40 pulls to understand he can’t roll into a bomb if he suck 4 casters

[sullen dove]

Also how do you like tell the person who to do it random people are picked for balls every time

U just on the fly go “ok this person do it”

[undone flower]

Exactly

[sullen dove]

if it’s a pool of people that have never done it before then gg gl

idk that’s kinda the situation u should just watch a video

and not cook

[undone flower]

Raid leader just called the « same ppl » basically if they are in the group / 1 of the tank but not the other for some reason

[undone flower]

I think it took them some time to put the boss on pos of the raidplan I sent

So even looking a vid is not enough

[bronze abyss]

What crit % do I Bloodthirst, maxroll says 75, wowhead says 85 and icyveins says 4 stacks of Bloodcraze and not a %

[undone flower]

I went with wowhead rotation WA

[edgy widget]

the bloodcraze bit is a guideline for people who don't wanna track crit % with a WA

the WA in #1237307732705415228 message goes off at >85% or >40% w/ VC

[undone flower]

How many mythic bosses you think you can kill with all 20 on the button

(Given you can tank and heal but 20-30% malus)

In my mind you can kill 5/8

[dense elbow]

By end of the season?

All of them

Well, to be fair, none? As healers wont heal, and tanks wont tank

But I presume you meant all 20, as in the DPS peeps

[undone flower]

Yes / just remove healer and tank thing, I think the only trouble is oab assistants and mug mines will be considered as AoE moment 100% / boss enrage

[dense elbow]

Will be fun to see the top dogs make content out of it

[undone flower]

Can’t wait for it

[compact knot]

i was doing like 2m dps on the target dummy as arms with no raid buffs

but then like 800k as fire mage

it depends heavily on spec lmao

[undone flower]

Macro combust with the button on fire mage ofc

(Macro your CDs with the button)

[compact knot]

yeah i was using combust when it should have been the right time to use it

and it was still bad

i think fire mage might be the worst user of the one button rotation though

[undone flower]

I think the worst will be rogue / fire mage and some other weird rotations specs

[dense elbow]

Feral, perhaps, if they didnt program the snapshotting with it

Doubt it gonna meld tiger rake

[undone flower]

Yeah feral good candidate to be awful

[dense elbow]

Winner gotta be Ret, followed by things like BM and Fury

[undone flower]

I saw tettles video popped up on recommendation, might as well see it brb

[compact knot]

arms is pretty good too ngl

[dense elbow]

Fury will gain this S tier spot damn you

Arms cant have all of em alone

This will be Fury's advantage!

[compact knot]

i think when i tested all 3 warrior specs fury was slightly better yeah

[dense elbow]

Hell yeah

Fury S tier, 1button

[quiet breach]

is the 1 button still trash for fury even if its better than most specs?

or is it actually decent

[dense elbow]

Doesnt matter, as long we are S tier

Maybe blizz gonna balance us around 1button macro

Who knows

[quiet breach]

blizzard specifically said they didn't want raid leaders telling bad players to use it

so I would be surprised if it was even decent

considering how many terrible players there are raiding

[compact knot]

it wasnt that bad unironically

like 2.3m sustained i think

[undone flower]

Idk if it was pre-turbo boost

[quiet breach]

on a character that simmed 3mil ST?

[compact knot]

it was like 675 ilvl at the time

so close

[quiet breach]

so prob just under 3 mil

[compact knot]

like 2.7-2.8

[dense elbow]

"Fury has been performing better than expected with the new 1-button rotation. To fix this we have:

• All damage reduced by 10%
• Frenized Enrage and Powerful enrage reduced by 50% effect
• Execute damage reduced by 3%
  This should leave fury in a better spot for the future."

[undone flower]

nerf OF by 50% and soft cap at 3

[quiet breach]

is this an actual blizzard post I feel like its not but I can't tell for sure

[dense elbow]

That moment when we laugh at the joke... but are nervous that it could be real

[quiet breach]

I wouldn't be surprised if they reduced damage of buttons if u used the 1 button rotation

[undone flower]

You forgot new warbreaker animation

[quiet breach]

I didn't know if that post was meant to imply the damage was reduced overall or just with the one button thing

[dense elbow]

You mean warbringer

Who knows, it is blizz, prob both, doubling up

[undone flower]

Idk the arms spell they changed the animation 4 times this expac

[dense elbow]

They called it warbringer in their offical post

so guess that is what it is called now

[undone flower]

All warrior tuning budget goes to that

[dense elbow]

"ok, so warrior, lets give them dancing rune weapons!"

Also, why does Fury always struggle so hard to get into priory -.- its every level I push

All is ok, then blam

priory que

[undone flower]

It’s the only key I need for resil 14 if I remember

But I gave up bc I don’t want to tank priory anymore, and I’m not taken as fury as you said in that fucking key

[fading sky]

I mean priory is many targets a lot

Ppl love dks // dhs there

[noble elm]

I love people who do mechanics

[noble elm]

Too bad you’re not us

Think I have a priory lol

[quiet breach]

priory is like, the 2nd most uncapped aoeish dungeon after cinderbrew, and also has so many fucking paladins that make being melee annoying

[dense elbow]

Paladins dont annoy melee tho?

[quiet breach]

actually tbh priory might be even more uncapped than cinderbrew

[dense elbow]

The first tick is so delayed, you can safely follow it outside

[marble pilot]

I can see it being annoying for like DKs cause of death and decay

But otherwise they are fine

[dense elbow]

A lot of AoE tho, but we do good prio dam and wrecking throw wrecks a lot of shield

Also, we eat bosses in there

[undone flower]

I quit pushing 2 months ago, I’m not a big m+ guy

[noble elm]

You can just stand in the consecrate

[dense elbow]

well, I wouldnt do that

[undone flower]

I did a 15 the other day as fury : yep I don’t enjoy my time here

[noble elm]

You might die, tbh you’ll probably die

But nothing is stopping you

[dense elbow]

its better to just follow the mob outside of the circle, if you want to minmax uptime and nothing can be hit

ya got the time

[noble elm]

When I do those pulls, I tank them on the corner, and when consecrate drops I run around the corner and the entire pack immediately loses to us

You only get two

But it gives melee 100% uptime for like 35s

[dense elbow]

Make it spellreflectable again plz

[marble pilot]

Still working on 12s. But im only doing like 3-4 runs a week.

[dense elbow]

For so few runs a week, I will say that is respectable

[undone flower]

Tank can move packs in a circle for ground effect specs

Like destro

[marble pilot]

True. Doesnt mean they will though. Not that I play a DK anymore

[edgy widget]

Yes, but those were also pre-GCD changes

right now it's ~4-5% loss for Assist and ~18-20% loss for One-button

[dense elbow]

Does one-button send OF tho?

[undone flower]

I think it press OF

If I understand, it doesn’t press these

[edgy widget]

it doesn't use utility, mobility, or anything off-GCD

[undone flower]

That can explain why it sucks on fire mage if it doesn’t press on fire blast / even if you macro combust on the button

[marble pilot]

Does it use longer cd things that are on the gcd like dragons roar?

[edgy widget]

yes

[marble pilot]

Not that it matters I wont use it for anything other than a meme reclear run.

[dense elbow]

1button macro going to be a 30% DPS gain for me

saved

[marble pilot]

Not joking I think it will be a dps increase for some of the people I raid with

[undone flower]

It still does 80% of sim dps technically

[marble pilot]

Assuming you use cds correctly

Since you still gotta do that

[undone flower]

correctly meaning on cd

[marble pilot]

And maintain uptime/other problems low dps players struggle with

[undone flower]

Since sims send cd on cd

But the button may struggle with movement / casters

If it tries to press a cast even if you are moving

[marble pilot]

Yeah all depends on how much of the problem is the rotation vs other stuff like dieing and staying on target.
Granted you can focus more on being on target and not dieing if you are not thinking about a rotation

[pale lava]

what does the assisted combat do wrong that causes a 4.1% loss?

just out of curiosity (I know it doesn't use major cds such as avatar)

[marble pilot]

I dont think it tracks the conditionals that the weakauras track for things like optimal bloodthirst/execute usage.

Or rather not all of them

So it will sometimes do a bloodthirst over a raging blow when the player would not have. Or things like tier sets?

[undone flower]

@edgy widget can maybe answer better, idk if the sims still pressed CDs / it would then be just apl diff for fury

[marble pilot]

Also thats the rotation assist vs 1 button. 1 button also has a gcd penalty.

Rotation assist is more like a built in hekili

[pale lava]

I see, ty for the replies

I was really wondering if not playing around the WA centric optimizations were a noticeable dps loss

[marble pilot]

That depends on level of content and who you ask.

I dont know the true % numbers but I thought I read that using BT>RB whenever it lights up vs the technically optimal times is 5% or less dps difference.

[undone flower]

Bc even if the assistant / button don’t press avatar and reck you can, macro them with the button, most likely what people would do if they will use it

[pale lava]

new quest unlocked: try the assistant on dummies to figure out what it does wrong just out of curiosity

[marble trench]

If we get Burst of Power, do we send BT regardless of how many targets there are?

[undone flower]

I can bet it doesn’t : have BT crit shenanigan, sudden death thing, Slaughtering Strikes chase after bladestorm, and : no opener / even tho fury doesn’t have rly an opener rn

[sour frigate]

@dense elbow dead game

[dense elbow]

dead game

[marble trench]

Gonna guess my question was a bad one lol

[undone flower]

I forgot sry, burst of power doesn’t change the rotation

[dense elbow]

Couldnt answer, I dont play Thane. But I presume you just dont send them asap, as you got 15 sec to do so. It is probably mentioned in the guide in #dps-faq

[marble trench]

Didn't know there was a guide lol my bad

[undone flower]

Yeah in ST you consume them as usual in regular rotation, and in AoE, you press more BT I think so…

[marble pilot]

I dont think you do anything different. Thane naturally presses BT a little more often but its just a small bonus not something you usually care about. Raging blow still takes priority of the non 85% crit bloodthirst and the no cd doesnt come into effect very often.
Sometimes you get to hit BT twice in a row instead of tclapping but thats just which filler do you choose.
Unless im missing something which is very possible

[undone flower]

(And in AoE you start to press BT over RB with 6 targets as thane)

[marble pilot]

Yeah there is that. Which I guess free bonus BTs is nice when it happens.

[frail jungle]

Just got back to wow from dragonflight. how is the fury warrior ? is it good ? or like in dragonflight noone invites warr for mythic +

[dense elbow]

A bit worse than in DF, but as in DF we can get the job done

[marble pilot]

I think its more fun gameplay wise. I like the hero class themes. Balance wise we are fine in raid and bad in m+.
You can still do it all though

[quiet breach]

warrior is probably the worst class in the game for m+ atm

fury isn't the worst spec but overall if u consider all 3 specs I think warr is the worst

[sour frigate]

Fake

[quiet breach]

what class is worse

[sour frigate]

Arms is decent so is prot

[quiet breach]

yeah but every class has decent specs

we have no good one

[sour frigate]

Evoker

[quiet breach]

maybe rogue is worse?

[quiet breach]

dev is broken

[crude ridge]

I mean the guy asked about fury and he's not wrong fury isn't that great in m+ atm

[quiet breach]

yeah

[sour frigate]

Monk

[quiet breach]

oh ye u right

monk is worse

[frail jungle]

so basically its even worse than DF :d

[dense elbow]

Yep, told ya.

[sour frigate]

Still worse in m+

[frail jungle]

i strugled so hard to get in group in DF even with 3.2k rating

[crude ridge]

Worse

Last tier screwed us and we got our AOE nerfed pretty hard

Hurt us more in m+ but the nerf was because of some fights in the raid

[frail jungle]

well since i dont do raids only m+ i can just find another class to play? :Pž

[sour frigate]

Ye

[dense elbow]

You can, but - fury is still fun to play

when you get to play

and if you dont look at meters

[crude ridge]

Fury can still play m+ but don't be surprised as the higher you push the more you will get gapped or just not invited lol

[frail jungle]

yea hahahaha i experienced that in M+ IN DF as higher i got at rating i could spend literally whole day and noone will accept me 😄

[marble pilot]

Mistweavers see alright play dont they?

[dense elbow]

no

[marble pilot]

Also depends on high up the m+ ladder you go. If you are just going for 3k then fury is fine. Might be a little harder to find groups but thats what guilds/friends/your own key are for

[sour frigate]

i was referring to nerf cuz raid message

[remote bobcat]

i hope fury gets nerfed

so we get an even bigger buff later

[dense elbow]

I would take your opinion to concideration, but... you know what you are

[undone flower]

Shadow priest is the worst no ?

[remote bobcat]

worst what? spec in the game?

[undone flower]

For m+

[remote bobcat]

worst m+ spec

yea

[undone flower]

Then maybe sub

But rogue overall suffer same as fury / target capped specs

Like windwalker

I never saw a surv in my keys

[sour frigate]

At least

Those have good st

[undone flower]

Idk I only know more about ass and it is ass on bosses when you give up half your tree for AoE, but you got lil funnel/ prio on trashs

[echo rapids]

Yeah but like 20% of that is just disc dominance, fort is a great buff

Shadow damage is ok I think?

[undone flower]

Would you say the same about frost dk, havoc, feral and other mage specs ?

[remote bobcat]

no absolutely not

[undone flower]

Shadow priest is down in the list bc his damage

[remote bobcat]

shadow priest is hideous

regardless of disc being good

shadow sucks

im not talking representation

im talking how good it is

it's not good.

[echo rapids]

Survival has to be worse

[undone flower]

I can’t say much, i know surv players but so few ppl play surv idk if they are good

Like he is top 5 on some bosses but they are 10 total

[plush zephyr]

Halo is so cool, the abilities, are so fucking cool, but yeah.

[plush zephyr]

maybe but I stg the people that do play it are really fucking good just my experience with them and someone on my friends group that one tricks it

[remote bobcat]

have you actually tried using shadowcrash and multi dotting?

[plush zephyr]

I can’t really disagree just seeing the sentiments of sv hunters

Saying it’s bad so 🤷‍♂️

[frank osprey]

how's the slayer in m+ rn just saw a dude crushing the meters on +15

[summer quail]

worse than thane

[earnest canyon]

What class do you think Prince Harry plays?

[static mountain]

Im no near a pro player but im playing slayer only and enjoying it alot. Pretty good st thou

[dense elbow]

It is fun, but you do lose some AoE DPS potential. But, playing Fury, you already losing DPS potential. So ignore that.

[summer quail]

aug

[storm birch]

I’m excited to try mythic house of cards over my eye of kezan in m+ any have the exp of going from one to the other to say how it feels?

Does the burst get noticeably better? I was thinking my boss dmg is gonna drop a little without kezan but maybe it won’t I’m not really sure

[fickle cedar]

you were playing kezan in m+ ? it only works if tank keeps combat during all dungeon

[storm birch]

Yea I only play kezan in m+ its all i have haha

[fickle cedar]

oh well house of cards is quite good, macro with avatar and just forget about it

[storm birch]

Yea I was just curious if anyone else had swapped

I was able to pull 4.11m dps in 18 motherlode with kezan but I didn’t check logs to see my stack uptime

Curious if I would’ve done much better with a HoC

[fickle cedar]

I think if you have a group that is able to stay in combat permanently then kezan is better, but dropping the buff kills it sadly

[storm birch]

My boss damage claps though cause I actually get to max stacks which is nice

I’m also interested in testing the mastery boost of HoC with the spear implementation to see if the burst gets much bigger

Because obviously going into a pack for the first time HoC is gonna give a lot more initial value than kezan

[storm birch]

Yea the issue is that too many dungeons have RP and shroud skips and stuff like that that force you to drop many times

[fickle cedar]

Yeah the good thing is that house of cards is on demand and syncs up perfectly, so much big pulls this season so its even better

[storm birch]

Yeaaa I need this last dinar to come through ASAP

[sullen cloak]

hey guys on big pack pulls in mythic + with Fury Thane

SHould I be priortising Thunderblast, Rampage and Raging blow

With Bloodthirst crits thrown in when crit chance is high

meaning rampage/ thunderblast/ rb/rb/rampage/ rb/rb then bt

[warm crag]

theres not a single encounter in the game where there are more than 5 enemies at once

[remote bobcat]

this is true

objectively true

🙂‍↕️

[storm birch]

[sullen dove]

bro clearly does not spawn 585 bomb adds on bandit

[mighty wave]

i know there was talk of the buffs for that new belt coming, we think its actually gonna be useful?

[echo rapids]

I think post buff it’s an upgrade for all specs

But just sort of minor, it’s not ring 2.0

[marble pilot]

I dont know the numbers. But its a dps increase of some form. And a lot of stam from what ive heard

32k stam at 684 and itll go to 701? or was it 703 eventually

[open prairie]

they buffed its so its a minor gain now instead of minimal

Some specs have sims out for it being like a 2% gain?

[marble pilot]

Yeah some dps. But for me im going from a 671 belt with 27k stam and 3800 str to 37k stam and 4751 str.
Then the effect is slightly better than normal secondaries. Im pretty sure everyone takes it. Though you might replace it with hero/myth track in season 3

[open prairie]

stam is kind of whatever unless you’re doing the highest keys

[marble pilot]

Yeah it helps, but it isnt major. Also im going from a hero track piece to this. I imagine if you already have myth track then it is less of a gain

[open prairie]

it was like 0.7% max upgraded

prenerf

over myth

granted there was no reason to be stuck at a hero belt since crafted exists

besides waiting on this one

[marble pilot]

Archimtiros said its in the guides already but the full update will be Monday.
And yeah I crafted other slots firsts. Sadly I needed to craft 2 weapons as i dont raid mythic anymore. And I havnt pulled one from vault yet

[open prairie]

isnt best in slots better in offhand

even at hero

[marble pilot]

Not at hero no

[open prairie]

it outsimmed 681 oh

for me at least

[marble pilot]

Not for me. You are the first I heard that it did.

[open prairie]

odd

[marble pilot]

It was behind by like 50k dps for me

[open prairie]

oh

aoe sim

[marble pilot]

Im just using heroic house of cards/seaforium now. Instead of BiS proc.

Maybe there is a trinket setup that beats it with hero tier BiS but then I gotta get whatever that trinket is as well

[open prairie]

idk i dont run aoe sims

since i play prot in dungeons

XD

sus energy drink in fury setup sims highest for me

[marble pilot]

Im pretty sure when I checked it was 5 min st patchwerk. But its been a while so I dont remember. I just know it was worse than crafting something and getting a jastor

[open prairie]

+mechanocore

[marble pilot]

And I did cloak and I think neck with other crafts. By the time I could craft a belt this one was announced so I just decided to wait

[open prairie]

jastor 3rd gally kill by drop

slots on a random oab

[thorny peak]

i will get a gally kill.... one day.... maybe

[meager hound]

I'll get my M-Gally kill at the end of next expansion.

[thorny peak]

same prolly

for now i will simming the same gear i got and second geussing my performance

[meager hound]

I'm not even in a Mythic raiding group, so I'm not too worried about it. Just getting the best heroic gear I can get.

[sullen tendon]

IS thunder blast affected by mystic touch?

stormstrike damage

[modest condor]

yes

[sullen tendon]

lightning strike?

[modest condor]

no

[pure cairn]

what order should I use HoC and BiS in terms of double on use for fury

Do I send BiS on pull with all CD's and HoC on next reck? or send HoC on next avatar (or vice versa)

[dull sierra]

no

hoc with avatar

[dense fulcrum]

can someone explain to me why arms is better in mugze "In theory" ?

[dull sierra]

bis with reck when ava is more than 20s cd

bis gives less stats than hoc

[summer quail]

the only damage that matters on mugzee is 40-0

arms just does more damage there

[dense fulcrum]

is there a specific reason

?

[storm rune]

exe goes hard

[marble pilot]

Hard enrage timer once you hit 40%. Everything before that is just living that long

So more dps during that part is better

[dense fulcrum]

i see

[sullen tendon]

been queing since 10 am this morning

[whole yacht]

thus is the life of fury

[modest condor]

that's why i dont try to pug anymore

[compact knot]

i can link you a log that shows you why

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/p2CjycAF8ZqTQtDJ?fight=51&type=damage-done&start=18536968&end=18656344

last 2 minutes of the fight (only part of the fight that matters)

only really matters on mythic though, execute phases feel fake on heroic and below

[dense fulcrum]

ye im progging in mythic

[pure cairn]

When it’s less than 20 I’m assuming I hold

[dull sierra]

yes

[feral ivy]

lock n stalk mythic or eye of kezan mythic which should i buy next week

Or hoc

[marble trench]

Is HoC that important for us?

I need to choose between both weapons, HoTC and Lock'n'Stock

Mostly doing M+ right now

[feral ivy]

did u kill all raid mythic? or going to continue mythic?

[marble trench]

Haven't done any mythic stuff, not in a guild currently, trying to build up some logs from M+ to get into a heroic guild and work my way up

So it's all heroic

[feral ivy]

oh then anything heroic doesnt REALLY matter since u can farm it.. just depends what u want to farm the least?

[sullen dove]

I mean hoc prolly more versatile than lock for sure

can’t really use lock well on aoe where hoc a lot better in aoe

[marble trench]

I don't have either weapon, should I prioritize those or trinkets?

[sullen dove]

maybe slightly worse in st but just on use lining up with cds pmuch always useful

i mean if you’re taking about like dinaring heroic items none of them are really worth it imo except jastor

You can maybe get hoc if you want since it’s so m+ viable but wouldn’t get lockn stalk

the heroic weapons aren’t better than crafted/mythic weapon you might get from m+ vault if you do 10s

but if u also do 12’s decent chance those trinkets in myth track at least pacemaker are better than hoc

but if this is a choice in a vault or something would say hoc probably or bis if its available and don’t have anything better yet

[marble trench]

Thank you!

[pure cairn]

Thanks for the help

[quiet breach]

u can do heroic pugs and get logs from that and go straight to a mythic guild (or heroic first ig if you dont want to make the jump right away)

no raiding guild cares about m+ logs

heroic guilds prob wont care if u even have logs

[dapper goblet]

@sullen dove xan cheats in minecraft

[slim coral]

[willow cradle]

Nah Xan just saw the Minecraft movie so he's got forbidden knowledge

[flat river]

https://tenor.com/view/a-minecraft-movie-minecraft-movie-minecraft-steve-jack-black-gif-2020937100544272347

[sullen dove]

not surprising

[compact knot]

bro how disgusting is MM

645 ilvl doing 3m dps before i died on gally

lmfao

that spec has insane variance though

i had 3 lock n load procs on the adds with volley and trueshot up, think i like deadass solo killed them

[young swan]

just dont

im behind literally everyone else on the server

cheating btw

[dapper goblet]

https://tenor.com/view/ash-cap-throw-catch-pokemon-gif-19138383

[young swan]

ur little camp of creatures has cured villagers for fort 3, prot 4, mending, eff 5, and unbreaking 3

[dapper goblet]

https://tenor.com/view/discord-meme-band4band-minecraft-ai-gif-13992033419263455246

[sullen dove]

https://tenor.com/view/danganusky-dan-minecraft-open-the-minecraft-server-gif-25992342

[queen panther]

Anyone got a Odyns fury build for M+?

[slim coral]

No more cringe parse tech @sudden tusk

[compact knot]

fattest nerf for demo lock

unironically

for that boss specifically (they still top on details)

[sullen dove]

u mean destro? just havoc and profit

[compact knot]

destro yeah

[final eagle]

Just for curiosity i made some sims on the new belt, this is what i got
1 Target: https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/enbCqqPNaNzY4pkE3r6j8i
5 Targets: https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4MtCtGwWCQz3oatCGyjmt6
10 Targets (just for meme): https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2pz5g6khaEkGBBwjgSRKYG

[honest sundial]

is that for max ilvl belt?

[final eagle]

yeah

[frosty lagoon]

Yo mate, do you have the string for the belt?

[final eagle]

profileset."Cauterizing Bolts"+=waist=durable_information_securing_container,id=245966,titan_disc_id=1236122,gem_id=213467,ilevel=701
profileset."Critical Chain"+=waist=durable_information_securing_container,id=245966,titan_disc_id=1236272,gem_id=213467,ilevel=701
profileset."Spark Burst"+=waist=durable_information_securing_container,id=245966,titan_disc_id=1236273,gem_id=213467,ilevel=701
profileset."Static Charge"+=waist=durable_information_securing_container,id=245966,titan_disc_id=1236275,gem_id=213467,ilevel=701
profileset."Charged Touch"+=waist=durable_information_securing_container,id=245966,titan_disc_id=1236277,gem_id=213467,ilevel=701
profileset."Energy Shield"+=waist=durable_information_securing_container,id=245966,titan_disc_id=1236278,gem_id=213467,ilevel=701
profileset."Charged Crystal"+=waist=durable_information_securing_container,id=245966,titan_disc_id=1236279,gem_id=213467,ilevel=701
profileset."Electric Current"+=waist=durable_information_securing_container,id=245966,titan_disc_id=1236961,gem_id=213467,ilevel=701```

[winter prairie]

Tldr; is it worth or nah?

[remote bobcat]

tldr: yes, just sim it yourself once its added to raidbots as it depends on gear when you want to start using it

[winter prairie]

Cheers

[bright loom]

694 @winter prairie

701

ST build

[fading sky]

How many of those csn u pick? Only 1?

[bright loom]

1

[fading sky]

90k not bad

Though

Ill take it

[bright loom]

Relative power to greater corruption, its a +-0 when corruption goes offline

[fading sky]

Corruption is season 3

Belt is now. So its fine

Though tier better be rad so ee get more power

[bright loom]

i mean void ritual is now, goes offline in s3

belt is wednesday :=

[fading sky]

I know

[vivid egret]

do we press the lock n stock 20s on use

[bright loom]

no

[fading sky]

No?

[oblique trail]

no, it just changes it from aoe to st, or vice versa

you just keep it on st

[vivid egret]

st is which one?

[bright loom]

no on adam

[oblique trail]

precise something

[bright loom]

Precision

[vivid egret]

i keep it on that even in aoe?

[oblique trail]

yes

[vivid egret]

mad ty

[cinder viper]

hey yall, in M+, while fighting bosses, do you guys use thunder blast if u get a proc of it? or just ignore it?

[fading sky]

Send it i di

Do

[haughty carbon]

Use it, big source of damage of fury

[cinder viper]

bet

[ebon junco]

Gallywix went kinda hard

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1196764973297307728/1383782483849515048/image.png?ex=68500b5d&is=684eb9dd&hm=73ac9d0af49686d2a5dbe0d8afc41f7ab5ed8cb261a6635445fa22018f745dd9&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

@slim coral

[smoky vale]

wtf

tmy is big

[dense elbow]

Better nerf Fury

[fading sky]

I c no hunters

Or devod

[undone flower]

NERF

[fading sky]

Dno how warlocks could do this

Low but tmy is a god thats a well knownfact

[ebon junco]

2nd kill went hard also

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1196764973297307728/1383803129845514370/image.png?ex=68501e97&is=684ecd17&hm=a98ee0743e1bf8cff2c9328dd41bf37a85ee3dc622999bf07322f7da4333fe36&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

[plush zephyr]

Holy shit

[tired dragon]

Private log 😭

[ebon junco]

ofc

[frosty lagoon]

thanks mate

[ebon junco]

If a buyer doesn't make it public like Echo logs it's just never public logs

[tired dragon]

Ye I feel ya I’d just love to poke around in there - just got to gally

[iron portal]

Buyer doesnt make it public cause they dont want to look boosted?

👀

[ebon junco]

Wallife's logs wouldn't be public for example if a buyer didn't public log

Idk 🤷‍♂️

[radiant plank]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/873282359074627585/1274193280258674749/attachment-1-1.gif

did you ban your entire team from hitting p2 adds

[ebon junco]

no

turned on a good song

[gleaming siren]

my boy Kyle

[pure cairn]

If I have 10s CD left on avatar, should I hold reck until avatar is up or just send it?

How long should I hold reck for if avatar is about to come up

[tepid cedar]

Send it

[vivid egret]

so i am using best in slots only no house of cards, am i just sending on cd and lining it up with av on 6 mins in raid?

[tepid cedar]

Never. The only thing you hold is bs if reck is 18 sec or less

[royal wagon]

@tribal nymph

[tepid cedar]

If ur avatar is 20 sec or more send it. If under 20 hold it. Basically it’s the condition if you have HOC but works well without it as well

[clever belfry]

@oblique trail ballnezi

[oblique trail]

@clever belfry andor

[sullen tendon]

I just realized something. Where the fuck are our main wow guys at? they havent been an actual part of the story since we got to khaz algar. anduin was in like 1 questline and thrall fucked off to get a bird and no one else really has shown up

they are on the expansion loading screens but not really part of the expansion at all

[frank dawn]

Yeah idk it def feels weird. The whole undermine patch feels like a side quest lol

[sullen tendon]

youd think that the major horde faction leaders would be around to see gallywix go

too much pink

[whole yacht]

Bros trying to do a 17 and his first choice is a 2nd paladin? Lol

[modest condor]

better than a fury warrior

[tidal kindle]

Pally owns...

[whole yacht]

Smh

[dense fulcrum]

kek

[dense fulcrum]

kinda based, a lot of times people take clone classes instead of a fury...source me being 3500 as fury feeling like a 2500 queing for 17/18 x.x

[undone flower]

Same feeling as nerubar

Side quest insect genocide

[sullen tendon]

just got reminded why i hate world content

trying to get pvp world appearences and now im combat bugged

ran across the entire zone still in combat

[vivid egret]

how do i check on how much uptime i have on the boss?

[slim coral]

https://tenor.com/view/bernadette-peters-padded-vintage-commercial-gif-10805338

[smoky vale]

gm bazed

[slim coral]

Yo

[smoky vale]

gz on your pc trial

[whole yacht]

just log out

or hearth and go back

[undone flower]

Damage done window

[whole yacht]

what is that 2 down there

[marble trench]

Anyone elses auction house down?

[whole yacht]

yes

[undone flower]

And then you select the boss as target, you see boss uptime

[vivid egret]

ok, i saw someone say they had like 25% downtime eveb tho they were 9%5 active so i was a bit confused

[undone flower]

I don’t really understand the context

25% downtime means he has 75% uptime (he died or just went to bathroom mid fight)

[modest condor]

the uptime stat is misleading

you could be standing at range spamming heroic throw and it would be considered uptime

75% uptime definitely means they either died or went afk tho

[whole yacht]

i go afk mid pull all the time

[undone flower]

Yeah unless you have obvious uptime issue, don’t pay attention if you missed 0.X% uptime or whatever

[sullen tendon]

what the fuck is with pvp mode people

some guy attacked me i killed him now hes just been following me around for 30 minutes trying to demount me while i look for sparks of war to dig up

[whole yacht]

dude world pvpers are the most salty vindictive people ive ever met

[sullen tendon]

i just killed him again and hes had his horde rogue friend following me around

[undone flower]

Idk why I almost one shot ppl in world PvP with my pve gear

When they attack me while I’m afk in front of dungeon entrance

[whole yacht]

sounds about right

[plush zephyr]

Cause PvP players are cheeks at the game

[stark lantern]

heya, is 2.6-2.8mil dps considered low for a +10? Im looking at logs of various warriors and the top 300 or so are the ones pulling 3mil+

[fading sky]

Depends key

Other classes

What do u do in st? Is it close to ya sim dmg?

[stark lantern]

I sim 2.5mil so im above my sim (patcwork 5 min ST)

[fading sky]

No

[stark lantern]

hmm?

[fading sky]

What did u do vs bosses

Idc bout ya overall in a 10

But if ya boss dmg is bad u are doing something wrong

[stark lantern]

is there a way to check each individual boss of a recent key?

[fading sky]

Details?

Prob also in logs ngl. I seldom bother

But im confident im performing well

😅

But try simming with no buffs and st. C if u are close to that( obviously same spec)

[stark lantern]

yup loooking at my dmg to bosses on WCL and im averaging anywhere from 2.6-2.9

so i think my dps is fine for my warrior given that my guild and I did a +13 w/ no lust and still 2 chested it lol

[fading sky]

🫡

[stark lantern]

so seems normal, compared to my unholy dk lol

[tepid cedar]

I mean sil was right though pally is about better in m+. I wouldent really take us unless you know the fury. Too much of a gamble, the Fury might suck. Pally can hit 3 buttons and shit on our dps .

[karmic fiber]

Do you guys pre Avatar if your guild insta interrupts mythic galywix spin thing? Avatar doesn't line up with the first big chunk of ad spawns if not

[warm crag]

tell your guild to delay the kick

[tepid cedar]

Spongie why yo name looking like a fucking strawberry blueberry smoothie

[undone flower]

Do you drink strawberry blueberry smoothies to know the specific color of strawberry blueberry smoothies

[karmic fiber]

@warm crag Already did, they dont wan tto for some reason whicch is really weird lol

[warm crag]

accept that your guild is griefing and just press ava on pull

parsing that boss is a clown fiesta anyways

[karmic fiber]

@warm crag Yep, it is what it is I guess. But pre avataring 5 secs can make it line uıp lol 😄

[sullen dove]

just ava on pull anyway what u gaining from holdin you have reck for first adds anyway

maybe like... hoc or something on that sure but eh

[karmic fiber]

The first set of ads that spawn after the 3 coils, you get avatar + bs for that if you hold

You don't have reck up for it if you use it on cd most of the time

[sullen dove]

yea i mean i been avataring pull, 2nd adds, and the intermission adds which i think having it for intermiss just like al ot better since theres like 15 mobs there

rather than like the 5 after 3rd coil

and pmuch always holding reck/bs to be able to have those on every add set

[karmic fiber]

So you save avatar for the ads then?

[sullen dove]

but ye if u ava right on intermission at like 4 minutes in and use on cd it pmuch lines right up for the adds at like 7 minutes in on last coils

sure y not boss damage kinda irrelevant

[karmic fiber]

Ill give it a tryy

I wish we just interrupted 5 seconds late though, so pointless not to, everyones full hp with all personals and we just interrupt 😄

[sullen dove]

yea i mean bros are cowards what can you do unfort

can always not attack the shield

force phase to last an extra second or 2

[karmic fiber]

😄

[sullen dove]

but yea if u just like check ava timings here there is a decent spread of ppl using on pull then saving for add sets or just using on cd

https://lorrgs.io/spec_ranking/warrior-fury/chrome-king-gallywix

(mostly doing that)

a few hold for first adds

just doesnt seem worth it really they die in like 8 seconds anyway

[slim coral]

we love padding

tasty

[sullen dove]

and lose a ton of lust time in cds

[slim coral]

[sullen dove]

just getting the reck/bs back in time for them is like 95% of your max dam on those guys

different issue if they're kicking so fast u cant get reck back up for them

in that case thats cringe yea

[slim coral]

real pumpers just focus boss dam

[smoky vale]

gm ish

[sullen dove]

[smoky vale]

how far did you guys get last week

[tepid cedar]

@edgy widget so with the changes to oab and mugzy. Will past logs get changed from the previous runs or only new logs going forward use new metrics

[smoky vale]

they probably start a new partition on this reset

you are better off asking in the wcl discord

[flat abyss]

Hey everyone, quick question. Heroic Best-in-slots or a crafted weapon, which is going to be better?

[smoky vale]

crafted

[fading sky]

Ilvl wins

Everytime

Only equal ilvl in gen = u consider other shit

[sullen tendon]

is it insane or a good thing that no tanks have lust?

[fading sky]

I mean, would just open up new potential meta comps

That excludes mages and hunters...so never gonna happen

[fervent turtle]

hi. can someone tell me when to Bloodthirst?

[smoky vale]

me when thereis a weak aura

[fervent turtle]

im just at setting my own up so just gotta know conditions

[smoky vale]

#1237307732705415228 message

[plush zephyr]

Idk but blizzard has made it pretty clear they don’t want tanks doing good damage

[fervent turtle]

ok i will check the wa

@smoky vale u press it at 40%?

[smoky vale]

i dont use the weakaura

i use the apl