fury

[gleaming siren]

Nah

Sprocket

Send it

[undone flower]

HE would

[smoky vale]

he already did

[gleaming siren]

No judgement

[smoky vale]

are you hyped to play tom

[slim coral]

I would def do a full anni build to try it out

but anni is gone

[smoky vale]

holy

df s3 with 1 button rotation

[rotund ginkgo]

How'd u get my logs

[slim coral]

we don't fuck with ToM

[smoky vale]

[gleaming siren]

What did Tom do to you

[hushed gust]

That was a part of a tier set. Essentially all of War Within, it’s been on cooldown.

[rotund ginkgo]

Playing warr is so toxic

Start season op op fun fun
Gutted to the bones
Ray of hope with 1 buff
Still useless
Another buff
Giga useless
Season ends
Next season starts, fury strong ayaya
Nerfed

[hushed gust]

Fury’s been getting dicked down hard this patch. In dungeons, we’re just obsolete, and in raid, you’re likely playing Arms a lot of the time just due to the nature of the fights. Can’t speak much on mythic difficulty raid, but heroic, there’s like- 2 or 3 fights that prefer fury.

[gusty fern]

hardly agree

[junior gale]

You can very comfortably play fury on every raid boss this tier.

[icy topaz]

Never played arms in my life

[gusty fern]

while ago i asked this question

is there real ppl playing ARMS ?

[undone flower]

I don’t play arms, I rather tank over playing arms

[kind bolt]

om g buffs what changes?

[junior gale]

I'm just one of your schizo manifestions as an arms player

[rotund ginkgo]

M+

Unless u replied to captain something

[rotund ginkgo]

https://tenor.com/view/rage-bait-ragebait-angry-gon-bait-gif-5270896389597269350

There isn't a single sane warrior main

[undone flower]

Prot included ?

[icy topaz]

cant be sane when we are fueled by rage and lust

[undone flower]

I wish I had lust

[pearl jasper]

https://www.wowhead.com/blue-tracker/topic/eu/class-tuning-incoming-28-may-573897 warrioir buffs copium?

[humble lark]

Are fury still behind arms in keys with buffs?

[floral basin]

Wonder what build will look like for fury with buffs if changed at all

[sinful glen]

same I think, maybe WW instead of ravager, sims will tell. But i dont think anyone is going back to odyn's

[vapid spade]

i would go back to odyn's if viable

[floral basin]

I can hope for the return of Odyn's fury

[hardy vault]

With buff, MT Fury on Gally MM ?

[mortal warren]

Odyn’s fury is fun to pres

[gleaming siren]

What

WW and Ravager are not mutually exclusive

There's 2 options honestly

you play the same Thane build as before

or you put points into Odyns

[earnest canyon]

im fuelled by cookie dough

[sinful glen]

omfg i read that wrong, you're right

brain went to bladestorm

yeah nothing changes in that regard

[gleaming siren]

Doesnt seem like the play no

[graceful dock]

WE ODYNS FURYING AFTER THE BUFFS? 🔥

[radiant plank]

nno

[graceful dock]

wha :(

i miss odyns fury

[low folio]

Didn’t the update thing archi put out say it made aoe a little better and st a little worse for odyn

[south kayak]

120% WW buff

[low folio]

That’s like 2% more damage on slayer in dungeons 🙂

[south kayak]

OF needs more than 30%

80 perhaps

[rapid forge]

hm got used to playing arms in m+ now. I like fury more playwise, but that target cap is still shit. Will be funny to see how this developes

[modest torrent]

Gents stupid question but i can't find a consensus. Should I always delay Avatar/Recklessness if their counterpart is like on cd but available in less than 15 seconds?
With the cd reduction i manage to cast: Reck/Avat > Reck > Reck/Avat > Reck > Reck/Avat > etc.
Icy veins says I should just use both as soon as ready. Wowhead says they should be used simultaneously.

[trail bane]

15 seconds sounds like a lot of time to hold Recklessness

I would probably just send it

[modest torrent]

Wowanalyzer tends to agree with you

[trail bane]

Only reason i would hold Reck for that long is if there is adds coming up in 15 seconds.

Just took a quick look at lorrgs.io and see there are some top logs on Sprocketmonger mythic (pure single target) sending Reck 15 seconds before Ava comes up

So its probably not horrible to send it at least :D

[modest torrent]

i see

I guess it's the same for Avatar then, just send it when ready

[south kayak]

Please set WW cleave to 8 targets

[steady vessel]

hey guys, wich item take with dinars?

for fury

[hybrid snow]

Blizzard has found your message to be absolutely against their community standards. Whirlwind damage now reduced to 1 target, but damage will be shared with the air around the target.
Please comply

[hybrid snow]

OF needs Jesus

[plush zephyr]

WW buff

What

Tc buff is nice

[restive pine]

blizz logic, one sword 8 target, two swords 5 target

[plush zephyr]

I mean, it’s going to help in aoe ig?

Whatever. Better than nothing. Moving on.

[hybrid snow]

@restive pine 🤣 🤣

[restive pine]

and same thund roar and ravager and ww , one hits 5 and other 8

honestly its epic 😛

[hardy bluff]

should all be at 2

so its the same

[restive pine]

i bet the one whos making those rules is the same one who you see in m+ complaining about how easy it is to play fury as 2 button class

same shit

[undone flower]

Bye bye slam, it’s like I never knew this ability

[plush zephyr]

Really not what I was expecting

[undone flower]

I had the vision before you guys

[sharp mist]

you guys think it will make fury better in m+ ?

[plush zephyr]

By like

5%

[sharp mist]

ah okay :/

[undone flower]

Do we have to explain to you what 5% of 0 do ?

[plush zephyr]

OF is what is intriguing to me

[timber hare]

Yeah im using it in my thane build idc how much of loss it is anymore

i miss clicking him

[plush zephyr]

It’s been so long since I pressed ww

[undone flower]

Wednesday I’m gonna be playing OF on Gally ahh

[harsh crest]

i'm starting my OF today

[south kayak]

you mean next week

[harsh crest]

my free OF goes up next week, its premium only this week

[south kayak]

Fair enough

[plush maple]

Hi

I’m the sanest fury warrior main because I play Fury warrior only, don’t care about no arms better this or favors that, fury warrior only

Also slayer in M+

[pure breach]

Tried MT on Stix last night, absolutely cinema

[humble lark]

is fury gonna be behind arms by alot after buffs ? in keys

[pure breach]

Idk whats arms sorry

[hushed ocean]

WE'RE SO BACK

are we ?

[spring jacinth]

and should be a roughly 5% increase to Mountain Thane in Mythic+.

we're so not back

[proven hornet]

https://tenor.com/view/were-back-its-over-gif-24400541

[outer glacier]

genuin question how are you guys finding 15s i feel like i can avrage good enought DPS to time the keys but definetley not nearly as enough as people i see on youtube so my question is does anyone know a youtube tutorial i could watch to help me out with my rotation

[plush zephyr]

Noxiv probably

[plush zephyr]

P sure slayer arms will still beat out mt fury

[dawn locust]

by adding people you run high keys with so that way you dont have to pug as often

[vernal laurel]

5% is pretty good though. Havoc got a 4% dmg buff last time and the havoc i play with had his dmg noticably go up in our +16 +17 keys at the time. Before he would be just below me in dmg, and after buffs its a coin toss now between me and him for topping meters. We both average around the same parses as well.

[rotund ginkgo]

Point proven ty

[plush zephyr]

Slayer fury in m+?

[vernal laurel]

Ey don understimate that boss dmg

[plush zephyr]

[forest owl]

what does that whirlwind buff equate to in raid, like 0.1%?

[sinful glen]

neglible on m+ thane

[sinful glen]

that's optimistic 😛

[forest owl]

guildy asking doesnt the buffs equate to at least 1-2% in raid

ww did 32k dps across my guilds m gally raid last night no sir i dont think it will be 1-2% buff

[iron portal]

people see WW buff : Oh my god Fury will have strong aoe now

People that actually know : yea....screw you blizz

[plush maple]

This is a knower

[dense elbow]

As you don't press WW on ST at all in raid, we talking 0.0%. in m+ Slayer is going to see a o.2% ST increase from WW damage

[dense elbow]

WW in uncapped, so our gigamass AoE is increased

[indigo arch]

tfw knowing the 5% buff won't matter, since fury is still target capped

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/148898695696482305/1285353121102561311/dead-fury.gif

I guess it's something that they remembered fury exists outside of raid, 1.75 tiers in

[dense elbow]

Good thing all the buffs target our AoE that ain't hardcapped

[jade peak]

facts

[shut tusk]

Hey guys, is slayer good in M+?

[dense elbow]

It is as good as Fury is in m+

[indigo arch]

Odyn buff shoulda been more, and thunderous roar shoulda been buffed with titan's torment revert for good measure

[indigo arch]

that or y'know, tune meat cleaver to 8 targets or smth

oh well

a wrist slap buff is better than a wrist slap nerf

(still gonna be arms til they wake up tho)

[dense elbow]

I like this direction to buff us, they just went a bit too soft on the OF buff and should have buffed BS/rav a bit on top

[tiny hemlock]

why play slayer in m+? theres no reason, just play thane

[indigo arch]

Yea they really shoulda cranked up odyn

The only way they'd buff fury in m+ without also buffing add sniping in raid feels like target count though

[dense elbow]

At least now you don't lose a chunk of your DPS, just some

[indigo arch]

otherwise they buff odyn/roar and then they release a new tier of sudden add phases

and then go "hyuck hyuck, cya in keys next xpac fury"

and "tune" it

again

Also bring back old RA lmao, who tf is running new RA

Oh well, it's a start

It's more than I expected, at the very least

[dense elbow]

Also shows that they are aware and trying to adjust it

Just a bit too afraid to scuff up the raid, to make m+ feel good

[indigo arch]

They really need to stop giving such a shit about raid. Surely they gotta see more people do keys than mythic raid

more than the other difficulties too maybe, i'd have to see the metrics

[rich veldt]

Next expansion will be better guys

Trust

[shut tusk]

Because I don't like electricity

Thane just feels like crappy enh shaman

[indigo arch]

If the bar is TWW, then you may be right

Slayer is fine for vaults

[rich veldt]

The wait within

[main dock]

Sheeesh class changes for fury

[eager thorn]

its fun

[main dock]

Does anything change with us with the buff?

[dense elbow]

No changes, just a tad more DPS

[main dock]

Liiiit

I wish the aoe cap was gone

How are yall competing for dps charts against other uncapped classes

[sour tundra]

by not getting invited

[main dock]

😂

[dense elbow]

These buffs aimed at uncapped AoE

On overall? We should be bottom DPS and by around 10-15%

[iron portal]

I beat some

I lose to some

If player is bad, no meta spec can save them anyway

[main dock]

Big facts

[dense elbow]

Please do keep in mind that battle shout on hunters and rogues, is a lot of DPS value overall. So with the ish 5% buff we got, we are basically equal DPS to them

We just got a different dam profile, so being closer overall makes our prio diff shine stronger

[south kayak]

[plush zephyr]

I consistently top boss damage, and if boss damage was overall for details, I’d be shredding ppl. And I’ll stay huffing that copium

[whole yacht]

What level keys you do?

[south kayak]

The copium huffing keys

[smoky vale]

shut up

you are just a worse outlaw and an even worse arcane

[south kayak]

bro what

i don't play arcane

[junior oyster]

Are there whinier class discords? I'm only in this one and the shaman one lol

[tardy lark]

every class discord is whiny

[south kayak]

The whininess level depends on tuning

[tardy lark]

you get a lot of people who care a lot, so when they arent top of wcl stats or part of highest m+ comps, they whine

[junior oyster]

Closer to bottom, higher the whine?

This makes sense

[tardy lark]

rest of us are just jaded and too old to learn something new

[rich veldt]

allow it bro

[oblique trail]

You are just too noob

[tardy lark]

i really am

[south kayak]

Weren't you yellow

[rich veldt]

its fine when the meta shifts and new classes take the top spots

[tardy lark]

never had a pee fetish so no

[slim heart]

a guildy tells us the shadow priest disc is on the verge of suicide no matter how well or bad they are

[smoky vale]

that class is UNPLAYABLE in keys

even if you are good you are getting carried

[rich veldt]

disc?

[south kayak]

What makes sp so bad in keys lol

[smoky vale]

fury is infinitely more playable

[tardy lark]

its so funny man

keep making the same mistake and hope you hit the tuning this time

[rich veldt]

intern in charge of that ability or

[south kayak]

It's a good tuning knob for sp aoe tbh

[radiant plank]

There is Ion + interns who work at blizzard

[south kayak]

idk what's the problem

[tardy lark]

"mr president, a 20th psychic link change has hit the servers"

[radiant plank]

no other employees

[rich veldt]

good for their thesis they can get the response from the discord

[radiant plank]

so good that its always broken or dogshit

goes from 40% -> 25% -> 15% -> 20% -> 30% -> 25% -> 35%

xD

[tardy lark]

stuff lives = its broken beyond compare in high keys and trash in low keys

[south kayak]

sp is the worst dps right now

[rich veldt]

more worried about the addon purge they are trying to do

[south kayak]

from what im seeing

in M+

[rich veldt]

and have some dogshit replacement for it ingame

[south kayak]

They're not going to replace all of this immediately, it's gonna take time

[tardy lark]

granted theres a ton of things that makes or breaks a class for the highest of keys and some of that is vdh sigils and boomkin solar beam rn

[rich veldt]

i know

But have you seen their implementation of the CD tracker?

XD

[tardy lark]

but you sort of just figure it out the lower you go

[rich veldt]

yea.... not really hopeful about that one

[south kayak]

It's the first iteration of it

[smoky vale]

i just think shadow does 0 relevant damage

[rich veldt]

then dont bring it out when its legit dogshit

people pay 12.99 a month for that

[south kayak]

Do you remember how much worse edit more was in the first iteration? @rich veldt

[rich veldt]

idk i never used the edit option ingame

[south kayak]

Bro shit like this takes time, no matter how you spin it, and introducing it into the live games gets you way more feedback than PTR ever will

[plush maple]

Just don’t buff them If they die in key, pretend that didn’t happen

[south kayak]

I can tell you that it is MUCH better than it was at start

[rich veldt]

true it takes time but i'm pretty sure no one asked for that

why change things like that after 20 years

dividing resources for no reason

[south kayak]

It doesn't matter who asked for it, I think it's a healthy direction for the game to reduce the amount of addons and have it come with the game itself instead of 3rd party sources

[marble schooner]

what?

[south kayak]

And I'm pretty sure a lot of people asked for things like this

[plush zephyr]

Highest is +15 atm doing my best lol

[marble schooner]

I dont know 1 person that wouldnt prefer if WoW didnt need you to download and set up a million weakauras, class wekauras included

cd tracker sucks atm but if they really want it to be good Im sure a very high % of the pop will make the switch when its ready

I know I will

[south kayak]

Remember Edit Mode on launch of DF?

It's way better now

[slim heart]

Do you think theyll follow through on Dungeons/raids having less abilites that require WA to navigate past?

[south kayak]

Yes

Dungeons aren't really that egregious when it comes to WAs requirement

it's mainly the raid

[marble schooner]

Io remember having to ged edit mode enhanced on day one
now it's way better by default

[still iron]

Big buffs coming what's everyone thinking about that

I miss odyns

[plush zephyr]

Where?

[south kayak]

I don't think there's any M+ boss that requires a WA right now

[plush zephyr]

I see buffs. I don’t see big buffs. It’s okay, better than nothing but it’s not going to make fury shoot up in dps tier

[rich veldt]

ye ok i forgot about raid

that one sounds logical

[plush zephyr]

move to statue

😂

[marble schooner]

Ion textually said so, its just a matter of time imo

[south kayak]

lmao

you use your eyes for that

[plush zephyr]

Turn around count down is nice

[marble schooner]

they know current encounter/m+ difficulty knobs are flawed

[tardy lark]

I'd have a modicum of trust if they did these sweeping changes while looking at weakauras and copying a boatload of the functionality, but all we get is rigid progress bars and icons. Like, copy 90% of what details does and i'd be happy, but 0 trust they do that in the slightest

[south kayak]

I for one am glad WAs are gonna be gone eventually

[tardy lark]

Unless i get the same amount of customization, i'll hate the change

[plush zephyr]

@south kayak they won’t touch outside of combat one’s?

[tardy lark]

odds of that happening is 0

[plush zephyr]

From my understanding

So there will still be add ons

[tardy lark]

Weakauras take info from combat log with regards to spell cast success and the like

[plush zephyr]

I waked and baked to hard and I’ve just been on here fuck I need to go game

[tardy lark]

so if they take addons reading combat log out back, a shitload of WAs will die

debuff tracking is potentially on the block as well since that is tracking an active aura on the target

but we obviously dont know the scope, and neither do they probably

[plush zephyr]

I dunno why they don’t just, hire the Hekili guy, and also contract out WA nerds that can break blizzards in game stuff

I mean they might idk and I might just sound dumb. I don’t know how game dev works

Just seems like, a lot.

And blizzard rarely implements something well the first time

So, I don’t know I feel like if the changes aren’t good it’ll just be a catastrophic failure and unnecessary waste of public’s trust?

[south kayak]

Do you think they don't know that?

You don't just willy nilly change the entire infastructure of things like this

[plush zephyr]

I don’t know. I feel like they wouldn’t even start talking about this if they haven’t already cooked something up behind the scenes

So, they have to know

[whole yacht]

What are yall talking about? I dont feel like scrolling up

[limber oar]

Weakauras and addon limitation in the future

[whole yacht]

Oh that's fine. I dont use too much anyway

[limber oar]

The problem is the degree o which they will limit weakauras

Like are the class weakaura packs under fire?

[wraith wharf]

something something they need to make fury better so we don't need weak auras to keep track of when to use bloodthirst or execute

[royal copper]

Remove addons entirely - problem solved.

[limber oar]

Things like elv ui (not that i use a pack like that but i know a lot of people do)

[whole yacht]

I dont see that as a problem. They could completely remove weakaura usage and I wouldn't care. I dont really like using them to begin with.

[limber oar]

Ok but what about others?

[whole yacht]

Why is that my problem that you can't live without weakauras

[limber oar]

Do you do any group content?

[rich veldt]

Why is that my problem that you want to play without the usage of weakauras

[whole yacht]

Yeah. But not with people with low enough skill they NEED weakauras

[rich veldt]

we can turn that one around

[whole yacht]

Im not the one crying about it

[plush zephyr]

I'm trying to really think of something this season that you need a wa for

[whole yacht]

There isn't a single thing that NEEDS weakauras

[plush zephyr]

Agree

[wraith wharf]

heres whats going to happen, they will go overboard like they always do, lose a ton of players, finally say they went to far, roll things back 80%, then never bring it up again

[whole yacht]

Unless you're just bad. And using them to compensate

[plush zephyr]

this is what I thought too, I hope it doesn't happen this way though

[limber oar]

Im saying this as someone who uses a very minimal class weakaura pack. It’s not a matter of whether or not people can play without it, but whether it’s better for their quality of life

[whole yacht]

If your quality of life in wow depends on weakauras. You're too deep. Take a break

[rich veldt]

yep bro brb gonna learn all the ins and outs of arcane mage when to press what without any weakauras

might be faster to get my masters

[plush zephyr]

only wa id be mad if they took away were like ui stuff and weird transmog or collection stuff, everything else idc about

[wraith wharf]

i mean the fact that we don't use execute right when its up and need to keep track of several things of when to use it, is part of the problem (has a prime example)

[limber oar]

Thats literally what im referring to

[plush zephyr]

and they aren't messing with those so idrc

They aren't touching non combat was

[whole yacht]

Arcane has been hyper simplified this season. If you still NEED a wa to play it you're bad. Like. It isn't the easiest class by any means but it isn't hard either

[plush zephyr]

from my understanding

[rich veldt]

yep brother preach

[broken kite]

How good these buffs going to be for fury we going to be A class for keys or still C

[plush zephyr]

B-

[whole yacht]

B at best. Its a 3-4% buff

[plush zephyr]

in my brain

[chilly fractal]

https://tenor.com/view/hic-fruit-punch-juice-box-sad-crying-gif-20407137

[plush zephyr]

S

[trail bane]

There are only two tiers when it comes to keys. S and F

[plush zephyr]

loool

sheesh

but truly fuck a tier list

[broken kite]

Will everyone be running Odin fury now ?

[whole yacht]

No

[trail bane]

The odds of getting invited to a key as Fury is the same as any non Balance/UHDK/Mage/Retpally

zero

[formal glacier]

shammy?

[trail bane]

Gottem

[brazen anvil]

so the odds are pretty good and normal

[rich veldt]

next season will be better guys

trust the process

like arteta with arsenal

next season will be it

[plush zephyr]

run your own, better that way, can choose the people you'll brick with

[trail bane]

m+ has been out for like 10 years now, soon its going to be dps warriors season to be meta

[thick fossil]

If that ever happened, part of me wants to be so petty to spit on all those pricks that snubbed me. I doubt I'd do that though. I'd enjoy getting my pointless title and carry on.

https://tenor.com/view/rabble-randy-marsh-sheila-broflovski-gerald-broflovski-richard-tweak-gif-22002770

@sudden tusk

[smoky vale]

@eternal sundial im like 300 away from rhe cutoff bro...

this shit is gonna be close unless i time 3 keys a day for a week

[chilly fractal]

Only takes 8 keys to get title just wait until the last week /s

[smoky vale]

atp it going to look like a few 19s

[quiet breach]

oh yeah I got a BoE yesterday

myth belt with socket

what should I sell it for?

[eternal sundial]

Try harder

[smoky vale]

check prices on servers

undermine.exchange

[smoky vale]

mb i gotta beat the people who are sitting in queue for 14 hours while i time 2-3 keys every other day

[thick fossil]

Title is pointless.

Title is all about can you get into the right groups.
Factors to that: are you playing the right class?
Do you have a team?
Do you have a lot of gold?

[iron portal]

Do you have the time

Is number one

[thick fossil]

That as well.

[chilly fractal]

https://tenor.com/view/mostly-eric-fail-try-motivation-saving-throw-show-gif-16486799

These are words I live by

[iron portal]

Clearly

[thick fossil]

You can try, but stop chasing things you don't have much control over.

Play the game for fun, cause if you lack time or any of those three things title is just not a thing.

[sinful spoke]

ODYNS FURY IS BACK LETS GOOO

https://tenor.com/view/lets-go-the-rock-rock-go-rock-lets-go-lg-gif-18455293

[thick fossil]

I don't want to spoil your enthusiasm.

[sinful spoke]

Spoil these nutz

[earnest canyon]

https://tenor.com/view/paradise-pd-ball-big-ball-energy-gif-19430747

me getting to do 1.5milion dps in M+

[thick fossil]

Ok, buff to Odyn's Fury is a drop in the bucket to actually fixing Fury in M+.

Still target capped.

You will maybe have 5% extra overall.

[stuck spindle]

with the 5% buff to fury in m+ how close are we to actually drop arms colo?

[thick fossil]

When we're behind by 20-30% already, 5% is not changing anything.

[stuck spindle]

so tired of whiffing demos..

[sinful spoke]

Lol

[sinful spoke]

Skill issue

[thick fossil]

Or shitty tank. I've seen both be the issue.

[iron portal]

You wont beat arms in M+ on big pulls anyway

[thick fossil]

Yup, Fury is just too handicapped by target cap.

[woven valley]

This is real, they just need to get rid of our 5 target cap. So dumb they don’t understand that

[dense elbow]

5t cap isnt an issue, as long we are doing well in our niche. You want big AoE dam numbers on gigapulls? Don't ask for sustained AoE, ask for AoE burst. Or we will always look 'weak' compared to the classes blowing the pack up. We can get uncapped MC and it wouldnt stop packs from disapearing from the MM proccing Lock'n'load into Volley+shot. Only buffing BS and OF would allow us to fight in that arena and feel good on top of meters. Sustained dam only matters if all the mobs live forever. Our mass AoE sustained DPS was buffed, through TC/TB and WW.

They clearly show that they understand the problem, they just didn't go hard into trying to fix it, doing a light touch. OF and WW/TB+TC buffs are 100% aimed to help us in M+ in the areas where we are hurting the most. Being AoE burst and sustained AoE.

We just got to wait another few weeks before the next set of buffs (if the same) moves it into an actual balanced spot.

[fiery edge]

can they just make OF works the same as cleave

[dense elbow]

If you want cleave, play arms?

[fiery edge]

no

tried arms once, immediately went back to fury

[undone flower]

Spoil on me

[modest condor]

you dont need burst aoe to do big damage on uncapped packs

you can do that with sustain aoe as well

[dense elbow]

If your sustained AoE DPS equals the burst DPS of other classes, we talking silly levels of OP. Imagine a world we did 40-50m AoE DPS sustained.

[modest condor]

you mean like destro lock can do?

or like spriest did last expansion

[dense elbow]

They build it up, but sure, I can agree they kinda do that

[thick fossil]

We wouldn't want meat cleaver uncapped. Cause they would gut the % damage it does cleave. I agree they need to make our 5 target stronger so we actually hold that niche of 5 target cleave. That doesn't mean things like Roar, Spear, Odyn's Fury, and Bladestorm/Ravager shouldn't all have 8 or more target caps. All should be given much higher cap than 5 to actually give it that big cool down feel.

[dense elbow]

Think most agree we just want our CDs to feel good

[modest condor]

cds feeling good is just a bonus for me

i dont want to be a liability to my team

[undone flower]

Yep

[hardy shuttle]

And ww doing like 70% damage not 55 or w/e it is

Make us big fuck 5t

[thick fossil]

If meat cleaver got bumped up to match Marksman hunter, I'd be happy with that.

[undone flower]

I love fury as is, so just no literally inting dps and im fine

[noble elm]

Target cap is the fury issue

[dense elbow]

Current fury gameplay is quite solid and fun, numbers just aint there

[noble elm]

Sustained aoe is great, except there’s nothing in the game designed around that model so who gives a shit

[thick fossil]

The thing I like about fury, is that it doesn't fully depend on the tank being skiddish or smart.

[undone flower]

No, ppl solo queuing m+ in the mmorpg is the issue

[fiery edge]

need moar dam

[little zodiac]

!buffs

[noble elm]

If the fury niche is sustained target capped aoe then fury will always be relatively speaking a dead pick because that encounter type doesn’t exist

Especially in m+

[little zodiac]

do we have numbers for fury buffs m+?

[fading sky]

Sustained capped aoe

[noble elm]

And when we do have a good raid niche they just nerf us into the ground to account for it (hello nerubar)

[fading sky]

WITH Roar and OF doing great dmg

to more targets

would solve that though

bring back DF roar

[tepid narwhal]

If only that were our niche though, we lose on Big Momma to many other classes 9/10 times, as an example

[noble elm]

Yes that’s my exact point

[undone flower]

Fury will be always niche, he is phys with no group toolkit, so it is fighting the last dps spot ( the spot broken or I don’t look at your spec), fury copers are waiting us to be BROKEN

[noble elm]

When people say “fury is fine we just have a niche” that is cope

[tepid narwhal]

Our actual niche tbh is being live lords lmao

[noble elm]

And having a niche is only valid if you actually need someone to fill that niche which you don’t, ever

[tepid narwhal]

But in a season with oracle disc why tf does that matter

[noble elm]

We already have rogues and mm hunters who fill the sustain target cap aoe role a billion times better with way more utility

All of this is in relation to m+, raid is rarely ever an issue for fury

[undone flower]

Exactly, they are waiting to replace udk in comps I guess

[tepid narwhal]

Fury in raid fucks

[noble elm]

Tbh I would just be happy with not being a liability

[fading sky]

i mean that is kindda pushing it brother 😄

[noble elm]

Up our cap to 8-9 and adjust damage accordingly

[tepid narwhal]

Nah, it’s genuinely super fun and you should be close to top of the pack on a lot of ST

[fading sky]

like FUCKS would say that there would be 1 fight where we are TOP dps

there isnt in logs at least

[tepid narwhal]

The relativity of the term fucks I guess

[fading sky]

Sprocket we got 1 arms warrior in top 100

but mainly rets dragons and such

[tepid narwhal]

What’s Arms never heard of her

[undone flower]

Im top 2 in mug kill (I promise there are 0 deaths )

[jade aspen]

The best part of these patch notes is watching some youtube channels seeing the 120% buff to whirlwind and saying something like: "Damn, Fury warrior will be massive in dungeons next week!". Seems they are the same as the Blizzard devs, doesn't know a shit about the spec lol

[undone flower]

I think Blizz knows more than wowhead commenters

[jade aspen]

By the way, we will not have the "Fury warrior mid-expansion retrospective"?

[dense elbow]

The buff we got was targeted and not shabby, but we far from YouTuber clickbait worthy

[hardy wadi]

how much difference will whirlwind buff do in m+? is there any testing done already or smth?

[dense elbow]

(not much to write than "we are decent and fine. please send help"

About 3-4% Enby

4-5% if Thane

[fiery edge]

Slayer M+ Revolution

[dense elbow]

OF goes from around a 3% loss to around a 1% loss

[hardy wadi]

in aoe?

so its still not good to take at all?

[dense elbow]

M+

[undone flower]

1% loss ? What talents they are replacing OF with ?

[dense elbow]

I can for sure make up some scenarios where OF got some advantages, like bursting down boss spawn adds and such. How much value that is, if you got MM in your group or other, meh?

[modest condor]

OF is looking to be about equal on aoe depending on targetcount and it's still a 1-2% loss on st

[undone flower]

1% diff is my min gameplay diff

[hardy wadi]

meh we will see then x.x

[dense elbow]

Just another 60% buff to OF, and it in good spot

soon TM

[modest condor]

surely

[hardy wadi]

funky maybe you can answer me something else tho x-x

[chilly fractal]

120% to OF is what we should’ve gotten

[dense elbow]

As well as I can, sup?

125*

[hardy wadi]

do you know if rallying cry gets aggro like healing?

[modest condor]

a problem with OF is that it's locked behind a 2 point stat node that we dont particularly care about

[dense elbow]

It doesnt work as healing, but it does generate snap threat, if you talking using it while tank bodypulls

[red berry]

i think if it was just overall crit damage as opposed to simply raging blow

that would probably be too lucrative

but it is pretty useless by itself

[hardy wadi]

soo i cant help the tank in darkflame at first pull or floodgate first pull because i will get aggro?

[dense elbow]

Yep, you a warrior

you dont jack shit

not your department

[hardy wadi]

ah kk then

ty

:3

[fiery edge]

[marble schooner]

why do I see so many ppl on twitter acting as if Ion announced total addon ban coming next patch lmao

never seen so much fearmongering

[dense elbow]

Cause that is how social media and influencers work

they drum up a storm over a breeze

[hardy wadi]

do we not read every expansion about how addons will be not working again?

i think since df season 1 i read like 8 times that weakaura will be dead and im like i dont think so

[marble schooner]

yeah but even small-ish accounts I follow are like "ppl dont understand this will kill Heal and Tank roles"
Like dude, its an interview about the general direction they want to take the game in

[dense elbow]

What would you click or interact with:

• WoW is KILLING off addons! Playerchoice dead? HOW THEY TORTURE SMALL ANIMALS!
  or
• WoW is gaining base functionality

[marble schooner]

how dare they torture animals

[dense elbow]

Wait... no!

[south kayak]

[chilly fractal]

We are the animals

[restive pine]

i guess its enough reading discord for today.

[marble schooner]

I mean it tracks yeah

[hardy wadi]

we are like lab rats

they testing how much fury will take before protesting

x-x

before the riots start idk

xD

[marble schooner]

they should buff Blast damage by another 40% but decrease target count by 2

[dense elbow]

Riots are over, I am one buff from content

[marble schooner]

and make Blast prioritize civilians and critters

[chilly fractal]

Keep us only 1 target cap but increase our damage 55% per nearby enemy

[marble schooner]

make us the Geneva Convention class

[modest condor]

they should make blast make it so that all the damage you would do to other enemies with your cleave instead go to your prio target

[clear axle]

Seeing mixed reviews, is OF worth it now or not?

[dense elbow]

If you dont enjoy the DPS loss, ya can bring it

[chilly fractal]

Your character has that cone over their heads like dogs get

[marble schooner]

they should make blast do no damage but pop a soundfile of the japanese girls singing nani ga suki

[tepid cedar]

lol what worthless bufffsss

[dense elbow]

Come on Apo, you know better than to call them that

the buffs were targeted, and moved us in the right direction

[marble schooner]

I dont support that industry, next question

[hot crypt]

so fury > arms m+ now?

[unreal onyx]

fury is always bis

also in big pull dungeons arms will propably still be better I think

[dense elbow]

Overall it still a minor DPS loss, but less than before. So if you just want to take it, you basically can. It is also stronger within its niche and use-cases (helping to bursting down adds and so on that bosses spawn in M+). If your group needs you to do that job, OF currently does that a little bit better, so take that into consideration.

If you just like the ability, you can now take it and not feel like a giga troll, as been previous the case. Now you more just a troll. On mass AoE pulls, you will see OF go from around 6% dam, to 8% dam. Overall it goes from around 5% to 6.5%. At the low cost of... a lot of prio damage and overall damage from VC.

That should allow you to decide if ya feel it is worth it or not.

[eternal sundial]

Halbe Bibel ganzer Hurensohn type shit

[dense elbow]

Yeah, but! We can hit 360, arms cant. So hah! NEEEEEEEEEEEEEERD ARMS! NEEEEEEEEEERD

[unreal onyx]

tldr?

[modest condor]

didnt you see? arms whirlwind got buffed, they can also do 360 around them now!!

[dense elbow]

if you played it before, it is better. If you avoided it before, you prob should still avoid.

[unreal onyx]

tyvm

OF still bad is my takeaway

[dense elbow]

It is Fury Tier decent

[dense elbow]

https://tenor.com/view/small-angry-cat-gif-17200553088253666650

[marble schooner]

idk how many times was Arms played on MDI vs how many times was fury played 🤔

[dense elbow]

I do lowkey hope that Prot get those arms and Thane buffs tho

[marble schooner]

I hope they fuck it up and somehow buff Thunderblast by the 120% they are buffing WW somehow and we are gigabroken for 2 hours

[dense elbow]

Fury did better than Arms, Noxiv crushed it Would have won the whole thing if he wasnt forced to swap to "meta picks" from offmeta

100%

[unreal onyx]

Algari Alchemist Stone trinket is still simbait right?

like it was in S1 since no one played it

[dense elbow]

Hm? I played it, it is decent and usually procs with OF

[marble schooner]

ye Noxiv is boss

[dense elbow]

Also use it now - it is servicable at worst, as we flat profile, it is just aight. Alchi stone is just neat

[marble schooner]

its always funny to me how the sickest players got the most basic-ass UIs

my UI is all clean and cute and I suck ass

maybe thats the reason

[dense elbow]

Once you learn that it aint about how things looks, but what they do that matter - ya will reach that level

[unreal onyx]

it has to work for you, not others

[marble schooner]

I will never reach that level cause I got a malfunctioning brain

[tepid cedar]

lol forcing us to remove to tree ppoitns to get OF while losing st for a mere what. 4-5% which is stil extremely nominal

[marble schooner]

but thanks

[tepid cedar]

but bnetter than nothign i guesd

[hot crypt]

need receipts?

[marble schooner]

just watch Group C

Noxiv perma-played Fury

[dense elbow]

Yes. But to play devils advocate, OF for its global usage is now quite a bit strong and impactful. So in raid you likely will see its use-cases increase!

Woop woop

[marble schooner]

yeah OF is gonna go so hard on Stixx

tbh

and for rik as well

also predictable cd vs AM/MfD which is gambling addict shit

[dense elbow]

See? Raid going to make OF be percived by the balance team as "too strong" again. Cause it kills off pad, that other classes wants. So it gets nerfed to be pointless and a big DPS loss again

Ahhh, Fury balance cycles

gotta love them

[marble schooner]

I just hope they remove fury so I can be free from this game

[dense elbow]

One can hope, but you know they wont

[south kayak]

I hope we’re getting a rework soon

[marble schooner]

I love fury and I think the gameplay isnt that bad tho I now am a certified AM hater

but

its got so many issues

at its core

[south kayak]

True and real

[marble schooner]

it 100% needs a rework, but theres so many specs that need it, I think at best we will get a soft-rework like Havoc got this patch

[dense fulcrum]

what will be the new talent tree with OF next week? what we remove to get it

[cold cape]

Because ToP has lower mob count pulls than most dungeons, it's fine to run it as Fury right? Or ir Arms still better?

[marble schooner]

id say you have to go Arms on Floodgate and Cinderbrew

rest you can go fury and its close to, as good or better than arms depending on comp

including Priory

[dense elbow]

Only things I want to see (other than balance and profile adjustments), are:
Nodes being fixed to be useful and not dead spots. Move power into the end nodes. Remove OS for something passive and newbie friendly - OS is just RB+.
Execute being prio'd for gameplay design, if you get a SD proc, you should want to use that proc no questions asked

So we dont really need a full rework

(by nodes, that includes inti shout/menace/rally, so on and on, not only damage nodes)

[cold cape]

What scenarios make it better than Arms? typically pulls <5 mobs and priority target requirement?

[marble schooner]

ye

[dense elbow]

From top of the hat; if you want prio dam, you can bring Fury. Most phy groups already bring strong AoE in MM hunter, and more is not always better. If you got two AoE carries, that are weaker on ST, then if the route (that your comp will be based around) allows it you then bring Fury to balance out the overall profile of the team.

[marble schooner]

any dung with very high prio requirement you just get a boomie or DK to do the heavy lifting and you just prio cleave

or go phys group yeah

you can even go phys with an Assa

they do big AoE dam

low prio

[south kayak]

The issue of RB having so many modifiers is wild

[cold cape]

Gotcha thanks @marble schooner @dense elbow

[marble schooner]

its insane you would think RB is our main spender or smth but its just a builder

[south kayak]

I think they need to cut down on those mods

BT should be higher prio that RB

Whenever it’s off cd

And execute should be the highest priority behind Rampage

[dense elbow]

Reduce SS, and you halfway there. Or simply make Exe doublestack SS

You could of course buff exe baseline, by 50%, would also increase the build viability of AM/BT/Exe by 5% overall, making it real close to RB alternative

[marble schooner]

its crazy how at some point the devs forgot BT is our main spell

[fading sky]

nono

[marble schooner]

it mustve started when they added ramp

[fading sky]

Main spell is RB

[dense elbow]

RB is life, RB is all

[fading sky]

yuo

[marble schooner]

yeah no main spell is WW cleave actually

[fading sky]

remember SL

[dense elbow]

Actually, we dont use spells

[fading sky]

Spamming WW 😄

that was true aoe

[dense elbow]

played like ass tho

[fading sky]

i know 😄

[edgy widget]

like what?

[marble schooner]

I think there was something there

[fading sky]

but MBG was big

[edgy widget]

Fury has like... 2 issues

and they're not even that major, mostly just balance between different attacks

[fading sky]

fury problem is to little dmg

[tepid cedar]

damage and utility

[fading sky]

thats it

[tepid cedar]

lolz

.<

[edgy widget]

those aren't Fury issues lol

[hot crypt]

will take a look

[fading sky]

Tbh our utility if Phys comp was strongest

having 5% ap and 2 stuns isnt horrid

[edgy widget]

people always jump to REWORK when the reality is that if you gave them 20% more damage they wouldn't have any more complaints

[fading sky]

rally could still use the M+ Treatment

[edgy widget]

Wars have a ton of lockdown potential, the problem is that so does everyone else these days

[fading sky]

and i would like more buff to of

[smoky vale]

just play prot warrior if you want to play phys

[tepid cedar]

id be happy and stfu

lol

[edgy widget]

no you wouldn't

[tepid cedar]

i would

shhh

[fading sky]

i would yes

i like it for ST as well

well TBH id like a buff to RA

so we play that in raid

[edgy widget]

these really aren't "issues" though

[fading sky]

i never said it had issues

i said its nice

[edgy widget]

like yeah they're things you want, but they're not problems

[fading sky]

we just need more aoe

its just tuning

of Roar + of

[edgy widget]

yes but you said it in response to the conversation about the spec's supposed issues lol

[tepid cedar]

legit think bloodlust falls in line of fury nostalgia though

[edgy widget]

no it doesn't

[red peak]

Let us dual wield mages and be a ranged class

[edgy widget]

Warriors have literally never had lust or anything like it

there's absolutely zero "nostalgia" there

[tepid cedar]

i meant as in story and backghround

[edgy widget]

that's theme, not nostalgia

[fading sky]

I WANT Roar to be what it was

[tepid cedar]

maybe i used thw rong word

[fading sky]

in DF

thats it

[edgy widget]

and frankly you could make an argument that Lust could fit the theme of practically any class

[fading sky]

end of ted talk

[edgy widget]

but I'm telling yall, lust ain't gonna "save warrior"

if anything, it'll help prot more than arms/fury

[fading sky]

Nah lust is just for that 1 pug grp

[oblique trail]

Go buy drums

there's your lust

[chrome plover]

you're right! they should give it to every class

[edgy widget]

literally

natural lust is incredibly overrated

[fading sky]

I mean

Drums should be 25%

[unreal onyx]

make warrior great again, I'm just really happy we get a pretty substantial buff. that's propably the first time I am thinking we didn't "need" a buff that big

[fading sky]

and Cheaper holy moly they are expensive

[edgy widget]

they should, but the point still stands

[fading sky]

yeah, i mean i think Lust matters more in the 8-10 key range

for new players

they overrate it

but gets ppl into keys

[oblique trail]

People like to point at Noxiv's group for being able to push incredibly high key levels, but they do it without lust

[tepid cedar]

archi, have u guys added the newest buffs to "lastest" in sims

[edgy widget]

it gets people into keys cause they think they need it, its a perception issue

[unreal onyx]

LF lust +7 Mechagon

[edgy widget]

its not live, so no

[oblique trail]

So if their sub-optimal comp can push that high without lust, then any slightly more optimal comp can for sure as well

[plush zephyr]

Love when chat devolves to “we should have lust”

[hardy bluff]

i mean you also dont lose anything by taking lust

so people just wait 20s longer and get lust

[fading sky]

mm hunter ?

[oblique trail]

oh yeah

sorry I'm stupid 👍

[unreal onyx]

you lose a spot a warrior could be taking up

[oblique trail]

Kinda forgot hunter has lust

[chrome plover]

they take a fury warrior so your point still stands just not in regards to lust

[fading sky]

tank with a lust would be bad imho

5% ap to mm

[chrome plover]

arms also gives that 5%

[plush zephyr]

I thought mm didn’t have lust cause they don’t have pet or am I dumb

[smoky vale]

they have lust?

[oblique trail]

Yes I was already corrected

[smoky vale]

yeah i didnt see that

mb

[chrome plover]

they used to have to summon pet to lust, but now they have a natty lust

as of tww

[plush zephyr]

Oh

[smoky vale]

yarp

[plush zephyr]

Tf

[chilly fractal]

Remember when they gave Arms Skull Banner in DF testing and not Fury? Then they just removed it instead

[chrome plover]

and a natty stun

it's nice

big mm qol

[oblique trail]

And thank god they removed banner

[chilly fractal]

Imagine if they kept that for Arms only

[plush zephyr]

Banners? Tf is this? Guild wars?

[chilly fractal]

MoP Classic is coming out soon you can play with banners

[marble schooner]

• Target Count
• Too much Front loaded damage by design
• Over relliance on uptime
• Having capstones that almost dont feel like capstones (Onslaught/OF talents)
• One button-spammy intervals that happen way too often (having to press Rb 5 times in a row multiple times in a fight
• Devs not knowing what Reckless Abandon should be
• Anger Management making uptime even more important than it should be
• Execute doesnt feel like an execute, instead we use BT for execute
• Even then BT outside of execute is a really low prio spell that has very few modifiers and its not fun to press most of the time
• On the topic of fun, Fury has very few buttons that feel good to press, rn can only think of Blast, VC BT that crits, and Ramp not really cause you spam it so much you get desensitized to it
• I wont go into utility but its pretty obvious we are lacking, I dont ask for Lust or Bress but at least make Rallying Cry useful and not just an afterthought (lets send all of these group CDs on this boss timer and uhhh send rally too I guess)

I can think about more but im at work atm

[plush zephyr]

Over reliance on uptime? I stopped there I don’t get that so I’m not continuing lol. That’s like, my favorite thing about Warrior fury and arms.

[chilly fractal]

Uptime may as well be the name of the game

[marble schooner]

relliance on uptime = good
uptime being so important you actually get depressed if you get selected for two mechanics in a row = bad

[dense elbow]

I been gone for a bit, we already rolled into the "Warrior need Lust/AoE-CR/Cleanse/Immunity" part of the discussion?

[marble schooner]

thats what the "over" in "over relliance" implies

[plush zephyr]

https://tenor.com/view/yeah-yep-ya-gif-24008978

[marble schooner]

thats reserved for tuesdays usually

thats why I didnt go there

atp I was convinced we dont need lust, we just need Rally to not categorically suck

[dense elbow]

Well, getting buffs do shake up our daily dooming, so guess it makes sense we yap about it a bit early

[quaint forge]

Super evident on Mug'zee

[marble schooner]

yes

[sullen tendon]

none of this matters as long as mythic raid parse farmers and community connections to blizzard say its fine.

[dense elbow]

ToP PvP boss, I go down, every bloody time. My boss dam cant recover

[marble schooner]

no you dont understand you are griefing if you dont instasend Reck when you take AM, but you are also griefing if you send Reck and the boss sends you down

[sullen tendon]

I dont understand how the faces of warrior in the community think its fine

[marble schooner]

but its good class design

believe me

[sullen tendon]

it just gives a perception to blizzard that they dont need to change anything

[quaint forge]

If you're parsing on Mug'zee you're probably not doing a single mechanic.

[dense elbow]

Did you say Fury got too much frontloaded damage?

Time to scroll up

[marble schooner]

historically thats one of the main reasons we get perma nerfed every patch start yeah

[dense elbow]

We arent very frontloaded, we flat like no other?

I am confuzzled

[marble schooner]

right now we arent cause we take Thane on aoe

[dense elbow]

Slayer is flat too, wdum

[marble schooner]

Slayer when its good is like very high instant aoe dam

[wintry shuttle]

lolwut

[dense elbow]

If you call going from 7m to 10m a spike, come on. It aint. That is basically crit variance for real loaded specs

[marble schooner]

we literally had a whole talent taken out cause we had too much frontloaded dam

[quaint forge]

Yes look at something like MM hunter with dark arrow procs. We can only dream of something like that.

[marble schooner]

do we not remember or

[dense elbow]

Are you complaining about things back in time?

[sullen tendon]

In season 1 you would litearlly just enrange pop all your cds at once odyns fury bladestorm and then be fucked untiil they come off cooldown again

[dense elbow]

If so, I am not really interested yapping about the past

[marble schooner]

im complaining about design choices that then get patched but not really fixed

[tepid cedar]

we are gettting reworkd s3 midnight

releax

wil all be fine

[sullen tendon]

thats why they nerfed us becuase it would delete adds in broodtwister

[tepid cedar]

.<

[quaint forge]

forgot the /s 🙂

[chrome plover]

just give us odyns fury procs like mm gets explosive shot procs

[marble schooner]

like ok right NOW we arent a front loaded truck

[dense elbow]

Please no

[marble schooner]

but historically we end up being one and then nerfed

cause they forget or smth

[quaint forge]

I'd like to see OF removed from the stupid spec.

[marble schooner]

idk

[quaint forge]

It's a trash button

[dense elbow]

Why do you want it removed and feel it is trash?

[quaint forge]

It's just never felt good to press, imho.

Especially as a capstone talent.

[dense elbow]

Not even with TR QoL?

[chilly fractal]

“Never” come on now

[marble schooner]

OF felt very good S3 (?) DF

but thats cause it made BT be good

[dense elbow]

I like how OF TR allows our burst and opener to be snappy and on demand

[marble schooner]

and when BT is a good button to press fury feels good to play

[sullen tendon]

I dont understand their philosophy with bleeds and fury either. The bleed damage is not strong enough to warrant an entire side of the tree going to that type of damage. Gushing wounds does ~1-2% of your damage in a key, thunderous roar isnt much more than that, and odyns fury isnt even used. You'd think they would want arms to be the bleed spec but they only get rend, deep wounds, and roar.

[dense elbow]

TR should be around what 7% of your overall as DoT, 1-2% as the static dam?

[marble schooner]

idk if Warrior should have a "bleed spec" but

[remote bobcat]

do we OF TR or TR OF

[marble schooner]

arms 100% fits the bill better

[sullen tendon]

tell that to blizzard

[marble schooner]

and its weird they think Fury should be a dot spec of any kind

[sullen tendon]

gushing wounds was originally an azerite trait that did very good damage but then they baked it into the class and nerfed it so much that it barely matters anymore.

[quaint forge]

I honestly love thane's play style they just need to figure out the target cap stuff.

[gusty sleet]

basically fury should be just smashing buttons

[sudden tusk]

Worst part of mmos is the player base most the time

[quaint forge]

Flat buffs to tclap and tburst ain't it.

[dense elbow]

GW for one talent point is actually quite good dam tho

Just a neat little extra dam talent

[quaint forge]

Tweaking execute to be a bigger part of our toolkit could be nice as well

[dense elbow]

Think most of us agree to that

[chrome plover]

or just remove execute

[dense elbow]

SD procs, we press, should be the goal

Make SD work like Lock'n'load for MM hunter this tier

[chilly fractal]

Give Fury Colossus Smash and old Death Wish

[marble schooner]

Fury right now is a Hekili simulator, with the ammount of katching weakauras we use is basically the same

[quaint forge]

We've always spun plates.

[dense elbow]

Luckilly, we can let most of them drop, and still perform more than fine

[chrome plover]

idk if i want anything like mm hunter on my main

[chilly fractal]

You know you can change that right

[dense elbow]

Same. It is a fun alt tho

[chrome plover]

giga fun alt

[marble schooner]

yeah I can delete the weakauras and then perform worse I know

[chilly fractal]

I mean change sound

[chrome plover]

but i'd get so annoyed at the dps variance if it was my main

that shit is crazy

[marble schooner]

oh yeah I use meow

meow rocks

[analog kite]

[chilly fractal]

Or perform worse - my god… the end of the world

[edgy widget]

• this is tuning issue more than anything else - you're not just gonna be uncapped and suddenly gain 30% damage
• not a real issue
• not a real issue
• also a tuning issue, but not the problem it used to be either (Fury is currently using half its capstones, and OF is already getting buffed)
• Fury virtually never spams 1 button five times in a row, the worst offender is RB after Bladestorm and that's a minor hyper optimization that players came up with, not a design intent. Even then, the real issue is RB/Slaughtering Strikes
• not a real issue
• not a real issue
• tuning issue that's already been well established (again the real issue is that RB is too strong)
• again, tuning issue in that RB is too strong
• this is subjective, many players think Fury is incredibly fun; historically it's been an extremely popular spec throughout every expansion
• tuning issue

So yeah, there's one real issue, which coincidentally is the same one brought up since Dragonflight - RB being too strong to the point it overrides other buttons. The rest is just general tuning or nitpicks, but none of it are "core design issues"

[deft rapids]

I sing the jungle book elephant song with WW so I know when I have to press it again XD

[marble schooner]

how is spamming Rb after BS not a design intent if thats what the talent literally does?

[dense elbow]

The elephant song?

[marble schooner]

what was the design intent of the talent then?

[edgy widget]

the talent doesn't do that lol

what

[marble schooner]

Rb increases Ramp dam

[edgy widget]

Brutal Fervor doesn't have anything to do with RB

[marble schooner]

BS increases ramp dam

[edgy widget]

yes, two things independently increase Rampage damage

key word emphasized

[marble schooner]

so the designer had two knobs and didnt forsee them working together

noted

[sullen tendon]

Archi do you really think the only problem with fury is tuning?

[chrome plover]

the only problem with anything for 99% of the people complaining is tuning

[edgy widget]

the fact that players decided they can gain 0.3% damage by putting them together doesn't mean they were designed with the idea that you would spam RB repeatedly at the expense of every other spell

[sullen tendon]

If we did as much damage as and unholy dk we still would not be taken

[marble schooner]

the players didnt decide that, the designer decided that by designing both talents

[chrome plover]

we would 👍

[sullen tendon]

because we lack any useful purpose other than damage

[marble schooner]

you dont decide to do more damage

what

[edgy widget]

and again, as I pointed out five times all of the real complaints come back to RB/Slaughtering being stronger than it should

[analog kite]

cough cough, raid buff

[dense elbow]

Pre-nerf UDK? Oh we would be meta.

[quaint forge]

Of course we would. Especially in phys comps.

[tepid cedar]

second this

[chrome plover]

if fury did the highest overall damage in keys, they would be taken in keys lmao

absolutely

[remote bobcat]

While that is true, wouldn't it be very easy for them to fix in retrospect?

[sullen tendon]

you know what would happen? they would have a mage and a hunter in group already and then the warrior wouldnt get invited because they want a backup bres

[tepid cedar]

the good ol days in s1 DF and s2 where if u played fury right u could wreck keys

[edgy widget]

sure it is, but also the biggest "core design issue" is that you might end up pressing RB three times in a row OH NO

[quaint forge]

Put jumper cables in your note 🙂

[remote bobcat]

yea fair

[edgy widget]

not exactly much of a "core design issue" is it?

[remote bobcat]

Definitely not

[edgy widget]

you could even argue that some players find the game more interesting when micro optimizations like that exist

[remote bobcat]

im also a big fan of it myself tbh

allows expression of knowledge

[analog kite]

tbh, this is like the top 1% of players, which we shouldnt cater to them anyway

[edgy widget]

so is it really a "problem?" or is it just a weird effect that some players may choose to take advantage of (for an extremely minor benefit btw, we're not talking about a 5% optimization here)

[thick fossil]

Not wrong

[sullen tendon]

Dude I love min maxing my gear just to do 20% less damage than other classes because of arbitrary limitatiions sooooo epic

[little zodiac]

Argueing how the class shoudl be designed is futile. I played aff lock forever and then one day they made ua single target because "it was too stressful for most players to maintain multiple dots" been like that for years.

[dense elbow]

We dont do 20% less dam tho, luckilly

[remote bobcat]

I personally dont think it is but i can see how people would come to the conclusion

[little zodiac]

won't change the mind of the narrow blizzard dev

[edgy widget]

people are stupid

[marble schooner]

Ok then, we can agree if not core design issues, then its a core designer issue?
all of these are tuning issues or "not real issues" but most of them are constants throughout expansions.

Fury being popular doesnt and will never mean its well designed, thats a phallacy and a half, barbarian is one of the most popular class fantasies in all of gaming and Fury fits it to a tee.

[plush zephyr]

you know that's how like every mmo works, every class can't be the best lol

[sullen tendon]

ok. take your mind out of raid for a second

[tepid cedar]

bro, some players like to push a class to the limit. how would u not cater to them, vbs a casual pressing every button as it come sup

[dense elbow]

I only play M+, Bobby

[sullen tendon]

you are no longer target dummying a boss

[dense elbow]

[edgy widget]

everyone wants to backseat cause they played the class for 5m they're suddenly an expert in design, except the only thing they can do is scream "rework"

[marble schooner]

I have played this class since WoTLK

[sullen tendon]

ive been playing fury for 10 years since wod

[marble schooner]

so a lil bit more than 5m

[plush zephyr]

All these ppl play warrior and love it but want to completely change it. It's odd.

[edgy widget]

if the goal of your design is for something to be popular, then yeah it kinda is

[analog kite]

because its less than 1% of players, catering to them and telling everyone else to f off just doesnt make sense.

[edgy widget]

also the word is "fallacy" unless you're getting phallic on us

[tepid cedar]

u cater to the 1%, everyone wins in the long run.

[marble schooner]

if you design a class based on pokemon you cant then fill your mouth with how well designed it is cause its popular

[analog kite]

gottem

[sullen tendon]

The last time fury was viable was in legion because we had recklessness at 100% crit and draught of souls

and legendaries

[marble schooner]

yah mb english is not my 1st lang 🙂

[quick hull]

do we foresee any actual impactful tweaks or reworks coming? I've been a warrior since cata, feel like slayer needs to be retooled, and not loving Col arms this season

[chilly fractal]

Ya’ll remember the feeling of not landing a Crit on our opening Bloodthirst?

[edgy widget]

I mean Hunters are objectively one of the most popular classes in the game lol

[brave hamlet]

Lol warriors are viable

[analog kite]

every class is viable, besides aug

[marble schooner]

you know what I meant man, a class can be popular solely on fantasy regardless of if its well designed or not

[sullen tendon]

whenever there are warrior "buffs" it feels like the connections to blizzard go into damage control

[dense elbow]

Aug is viable btw

[tepid cedar]

if we hit a cap that we can not push past a 20 for exmaple. theats a design flaw. where the best of th best cant do it. this forces a look hopefully which in term becomes a buff which in term helps everyone out

[marble schooner]

as long as it is "fun enough" to play

[sullen tendon]

justifying the miniscule changes

[quaint forge]

And they're finally getting their time in the sun after being neglected for a while. Fury will get some love eventually.

[remote bobcat]

Well think about this - we have a fundamental design in the rage bar, rage generators and rage spenders, with cooldowns also being somewhere in this space, and then we have passive designs, they are tuning knobs, they allow for the gameplay to differ based on tuning.
Is it stupid if someone's not a fan of the passive tuning knob to outweigh the fundamental design philosophy of spending rage at max rage? I think i can see their perspective, I don't agree with them but i feel i understand it

[quick hull]

every class is plenty viable of doing 98% of content, players are just dickheads based off tierlists that dont really matter to their content

[hardy bluff]

not every class needs to do +20 keys man

[edgy widget]

again though, if the ultimate design goal is for players to enjoy your class
and you make a class with a strong theme that's fun to play
then I'd argue that the design is pretty successful

that may not mean it is as competitive as you'd like, and frankly all design will always have some kind of issues in some regard

[chilly fractal]

If a spec if fun to play one could argue that’s good design

[chrome plover]

I enjoy fury rn I just wanna do more damage 🙂

[sullen tendon]

The majority of people do not have dedicated groups that they have carry them in mythic raid and m+ the average player is pugging shit after work

[remote bobcat]

same brother

same

[edgy widget]

there isn't a single class in the game that you can't levvy basically all the same complaints you just spent time writing out about Fury

[marble schooner]

a spec can be fun to play if you are playing casually, and way less fun as you get into harder content, not uncommon

[brave hamlet]

Exactly

[sullen tendon]

ok but this is the fury channel

[analog kite]

the point of tuning is to give all classes a chance to be meta, right?

[sullen tendon]

there are outstanding problems with fury that have existed for years

[edgy widget]

M+ being an uncapped system means this will virtually always exist

[quaint forge]

No

[edgy widget]

if you wanna blame something, blame M+ design

[sullen tendon]

and a few buffs to numbers wont fix them

[chrome plover]

no, it's to bring classes closer to each other, and closer to a middle point

[edgy widget]

like what

cause the last guy didn't really have any

[dense elbow]

I rather hope it is to allow everyone to be viable, not everyone can be meta.

[brave hamlet]

I didn't mean to respond to that guy with that my exactly was for archi sayin every class has issues you can find

[sullen tendon]

you dismissed everything that guy said as a tuning problem.

[quick hull]

do people really rate a class well if it can do a 20 or not?!?!? lol

[edgy widget]

not even remotely

[edgy widget]

because he tried to say they were "core design issues" lmao

[chilly fractal]

At the end of the day it always sounds like the real complaint people have is about #s which is and always will be a tuning issue

[brave hamlet]

Everyone wants to be number 1 but not everybody can be

[quick hull]

tuning has never been closer yet players still mad when at bottom

[edgy widget]

"Fury doesn't do enough AoE"

• literally every button is capable of dealing aoe damage
  so is that a tuning or design issue?

[young swan]

it wasnt viable in legion for m+ meta

[marble schooner]

I play many classes, and though I only feel as strongly regarding fury, Ive seen how other classes are perceived by their own players and what they would like changed
And fury(or warrior as a whole) is one of the ones that has both the most vocal complainers AND the least willingness from devs to change

[quaint forge]

We're viable just not preferred

[edgy widget]

this is also the dumbest shit I've read all day btw, thanks
FWIW, Fury wasn't even meta when Draught was out, it got thoroughly slapped by Arms for half of Legion, until Antorus (at which point it wasn't using Draught anymore anyway)

[sullen tendon]

we have 0 utility compared to other classes. our group buff doesnt matter because the majority of classes use magic damage. We are artificially limited by our 5 target cap where other classes and specs have uncapped aoe. Single target damage is tied into our aoe and they cannot tune our st without affecting our aoe. If they try buffing aoe abilities like odysn fury or bladestorm or troar then they inevidably nerf them again because they become too strong. We bring no meaningul buffs to groups defensive wise or offensive wise.

[young swan]

you only speak about viability in the context of the absolute meta cause thats the only place where its applicable and we werent viable

[south kayak]

If it’s a tuning issue why not just change ww to cleave to 8 instead of 5, 5 is fucking bad

[quick hull]

never had any issues getting into groups as warrior, only issue and this goes for all classes is if your coming in later in the season with lower io or ilvl then your just fucked until you grind lower keys up

[tepid cedar]

what do u mean not every class shouldent do 20s

it should be essentially skill level

[sullen tendon]

Everyone played arms in tomb because of the hurricane legendary that was introduced before that people played fury

[tepid cedar]

not bc ur class is shyte

[marble schooner]

I was 3k io with a ToP 14 timed week 3 and I already wasnt getting invited and thats why I stopped pushing at that point

[hardy bluff]

10s yea

not every class needs to the highest level of keys

[brave hamlet]

What's the cap for rewards

[hardy bluff]

10s

[vague sierra]

Ice cold take

[tepid cedar]

i was 3300 2nd week on s2. saw the light and havent pushed in almsot 2 months

[remote bobcat]

fyi AP shout makes tanks more tanky and classes that end up hitting with magic damage may still use attack power in their calculations

[whole yacht]

Everyone class should have the ability to do all content of all difficulty levels. Saying certain classes should be incapable of doing certain content is a dog shit take.

[sullen tendon]

and we dont get invited anyways because of it

[edgy widget]

we have 0 utility compared to other classes
no utility, or just no unique utility?

our group buff doesnt matter because the majority of classes use magic damage
Tell that to Novix lol
also every raid group in existence

We are artificially limited by our 5 target cap where other classes and specs have uncapped aoe.
Nothing artificial about it, but again - this is largely a tuning issue

If they try buffing aoe abilities like odysn fury or bladestorm or troar then they inevidably nerf them again because they become too strong.
One thing gets buffed and another is nerfed? that sounds exactly like tuning

We bring no meaningul buffs to groups defensive wise or offensive wise.
See previous "group buff" comment

[young swan]

u really think the spec that took 25% EXTRA damage was ever competitive in m+? i got some news for you

[dense elbow]

To be fair, once you start to reach the 1%-0.1% area, you really should transition from pure PuG to semiPuG (networking) and teambuilding

[south kayak]

What’s the point of playing fury when 95% of specs deal damage to more than 5 targets

[quick hull]

noxiv did a 20 as fury so its possible

so were great

[modest condor]

our group buff doesnt matter because the majority of classes use magic damage
damage type doesnt matter, we buff every melee dps and hunter

[remote bobcat]

and tanks

[fluid pollen]

I dig this idea

[south kayak]

I don’t know what to tell you if you think a spec only dealing damage to 5 targets is fine

[remote bobcat]

tanks have insane AP shout value

everyone forgets

ap shout is more valuable for tanks than dps

[sullen tendon]

noxiv plays with a specific comp that all use physical damage. I said this earlier but the majority of players do not take time out of their day to plan to do m+ with a group. People say fuck it and pug stuff with whatever comp or play with guildies that are whatever spec they want.

[dense elbow]

Healers dont get value, even if melee, sadge

Str/Agi healers when blizzard?!

[tepid cedar]

yea but how long is it taking them extra bc they arent having to do 5x the amount of work as an another comp

[sullen tendon]

This is not in raid

[edgy widget]

actually it was the Unhinged tier set and the fact that Fury couldn't execute anything in Tomb, but Arms was the goto in EN, Fury had Nighthold, Arms had Tomb, and Fury had Antorus

That's literally half

[hardy bluff]

so its bad because you dont plan around it but other classes are good because they plan arouind them

[sullen tendon]

Raid is pointless

[remote bobcat]

yea they do

[modest condor]

what does that have to do with anything?

[dense elbow]

Oh, the AP convertion gets both int buff and AP?

[modest condor]

the top dps in m+ for the past 2 seasons has been a melee dps

[remote bobcat]

mistweaver converts int into ap

[marble schooner]

sadly Im from a region where everything is very segmented and ppl arent very willing to network, ill probably change servers eventually to try again but for this season my experience was very sad cause I actually wanted to push to at least 3.3kio or smth at that point and then I suddenly stopped getting invited after 2-3hs on lfg

[remote bobcat]

and ap shout adds to it

idk bout hpal and rdruid

[humble shadow]

Fury channel is poppin rn

[modest condor]

mistweaver isnt buffed by battle shout

wrong ping sorry

[edgy widget]

you said our group buff doesn't matter, I gave you an obvious example in which it does

by that logic, you could say that a mage's AI buff or a DH's magic dam debuff doesn't matter in any group with a Warrior

[young swan]

yeah people are mad we got buffed

[modest condor]

was ment @remote bobcat

[sullen tendon]

I just fail to understand how people can still say fury is fine after so long with 0 changes other than tuning