fury

[warm crag]

good

[smoky vale]

now my dk cant get a bis without doing a reclear

[sullen dove]

not good blow up

[smoky vale]

and these chuds will freak the fuck out

[warm crag]

go earn some gear silly man

[smoky vale]

if i bring that

[sullen dove]

earn dn

[smoky vale]

bro these guys geeked iut

when bro brought a geared character

[sullen dove]

they dont care bout your character bruh

at all

[smoky vale]

ik

[marble pilot]

Where was the ilvl increases at?

[smoky vale]

but i perform on any melee i play

[sullen dove]

good u said melee

pblast aware

[smoky vale]

aware

https://tenor.com/view/those-who-mow-those-who-know-gif-6741124947321800836

[modern ingot]

Fury is good in keys...we don't need a buff :

[coarse nest]

Ironic name

[forest owl]

is there a reason people take steadfast of the peaks over the damage reduction talent on mythic bandit?

[full valve]

big slurpee

[sinful spoke]

yall know what to do chat

go on the forums and complain abt the kill requirement on the dinars

[sullen dove]

brute force kill requirement with all 6 dinars

ez

[coarse nest]

Hope they clarify if killing a mythic boss on main allows alts to buy the same mythic items

Otherwise kinda cringe for people who swap to better classes to help prog a specific boss

I guess it’s only a problem for guilds who don’t reclear easily

[jade ocean]

agumentation save warrior from being last in dps

[flat river]

brooo

you have to kill bosses to use dinars

gg

[sullen dove]

EVERYONE IS SHOWING UP TO RAID ON MAY 13TH AT 680 ILVL MINIMUM OR BENCHED

[flat river]

xd

[sullen dove]

can’t wait for another 8 hour maintenance for that tho

they added nothing to the game this time but having to change crest tracks and stuff yeesh

[full valve]

now shadow priest and surv hunter lower than aug dw

[sullen dove]

surv where lmao

unless they just got hit with like a 40% nerf

[full valve]

[sullen dove]

What is this Mickey Mouse list

[storm birch]

dinar change is lit

earn the kill and then get your bad rng protection

[sullen dove]

Cringe if you don’t myth raid

Nice for them to get it eventually but actually useless system for average joe

u would never waste coins on heroic items that aren’t better than myth items

maybe like a hoc or something for m+ is good that’s about it

[spare steppe]

or have a raid team thats slowly progging

[sullen dove]

yea I mean I’m there too

But free +6 Ilvl on the raid should help a lot with that

[spare steppe]

we aint getting to OAB in 3 weeks

[sullen dove]

Like 5 weeks from now

4 and a half

we might if lucky

maybe more possible with Ilvl boost

[remote bobcat]

what was the fix to double weakaura cd numbers again? (no im not using omnicd)

[modest condor]

i get that based on previous iterations of dinars people were expecting something else, but man some people are way too upset about this

it's just bad luck protection

[smoky vale]

its just shit if your guild wont let you bring in alts to raid

or if your guild is so bad that you would never kill the boss

[remote bobcat]

nah its also good to set up characters for next season

[spare steppe]

i believe in you! May you get it down

[remote bobcat]

B-I-S, jastor diamond, eye of kezan

[modest condor]

eye of kezan is gonna be useless with how quick bosses will die after the ilvl jump

[spare steppe]

They should’ve just clarified earlier what it was imo

[sullen dove]

cockenstalk gonna go huge

[modest condor]

also from my understanding you can only buy 2 items

[sullen dove]

yea

[spare steppe]

cause its not a dinar

[sinful spoke]

bis and house of cards

[sullen dove]

need to have killed myth gally to consider Kezan tho lol

[modest condor]

that would have just made people upset earlier

[spare steppe]

true!

They lose no matter what, but better to crush hopes early

[sullen dove]

Realistically the 2 vr in bis and jastor is what you get

I don’t mind too much you have to kill the boss for me but like it should at minimum be account wide

for that

[wispy thistle]

people would have had different expectations though, I think thats what people are most upset about. Kinda of a useless system for most now

[sullen dove]

and again this shit is useless for non mythic raiders

[smoky vale]

^

like

there is no way these people wont geek out if i bring my dk

[spare steppe]

its also useless for most raiders

[sinful spoke]

heroic raiders are fucked

mythic plusers are fucked

[sullen dove]

Of all the shit tho the kill requirement BETTER be account wide

[spare steppe]

like you got CE, youre probably raid logging at that point

[sullen dove]

no fucking way they want my alt to clear myth bandit or gallywix just on the drop of a hat

[storm birch]

Well if you don’t myth raid you should just have access to the content you’re caring to access right? Want mythic loot do mythic raid

[cursive ridge]

whats the point of even playing this game if you dont mythic raid, i guess that's what blizzard is telling us. m+ players get fucked

[sullen dove]

but if main has done it once then you pass the bad

[sullen dove]

ok then they should put m+ myth track on there only if you are 3500 io

[sinful spoke]

3500 is crazy

i was gonna say 3100-200

[sullen dove]

idk it’s ez if you play meta

Metaaaaaa

[weak grail]

so with these changes, if I have myth track weapon and heroic bis, I should craft a weapon as off hand?

[sullen dove]

crafted weapon is already better than heroic bis but it’s not by a crazy significant amount

[storm birch]

I think certain level keys should drop myth track gear so I’m with you. Like 14+ myth track so m+ people aren’t so dependent on vault. I’m with you

[sullen dove]

It’ll probably be the same difference then as now

[sinful spoke]

``i mean

it was 40k for me

[sullen dove]

idk maybe

[young swan]

was worse for me

[sullen dove]

embellish stuff weird

[sinful spoke]

my weapon isnt embelisghed

[sullen dove]

there cheche and xan fight

[cursive ridge]

'ez' only ppl 3500 I know are basically unemplyed in m+ all day lmao

[sullen dove]

Regardless it’s not much different to what it is now

[gleaming siren]

hey

[sullen dove]

the argument between h bis and other shit

[young swan]

see its worse

[gleaming siren]

I am concerned

@warm crag

is this you

[sage ridge]

What are the real issues with just making all the items the same track? All this system does is annoy half the playerbase

[storm birch]

I just can’t see how people can be upset that they can’t get a piece from some of the hardest content in the game for free

[sullen dove]

insta funneled

[storm birch]

Do the content or enjoy the lower ilvl version!

[cursive ridge]

they call the system dinars, dinars have worked the way you describe every other time, of course people expect them to work that way again

[sage ridge]

I don't see why people care if a player doing LFR gets 2 myth raid pieces halfway through the season

[young swan]

yeah but they dont work the same

as was described in the article

[cursive ridge]

ya thats why people are mad...

[sullen dove]

Yea like this doesn’t rly matter

U can still check how good people are

By looking at io/logs

[sage ridge]

Exactly

If this was month 1 it would be dumb

[sullen dove]

So what if random pet battle Andy gets mythic bis

[young swan]

i mean people would've called it dinar regardless of what they called it lmfao

cause its still dinar

[cursive ridge]

'hey come to this restrauant for an amazing cheeseburger' and they give you a ham sandwich

[young swan]

ur still buying an item without looting

[storm birch]

Not saying it isn’t odd that they changed it. But the reality is they changed it. Is there a good reason someone deserves a mythic end boss piece of loot even if they never stepped foot in mythic ?

[sage ridge]

For fun

Pretty simple

[cursive ridge]

yes, because it's really late in the season, and not everyone wants to chain themselves to 9 hrs of scheduled gaming every week for eternity for the best items in game

[sage ridge]

That is the reason

[weak grail]

the problem is blizzard promising "dinars" not a nerfed useless version

[storm birch]

Handouts vs earned. You want the piece earn it like others did. Or enjoy your loot from other content instead

[sullen dove]

the system just has no reason to exist for 95% of the player base if u can’t get what you want

[young swan]

i mean the only people who "thought it was gonna work the same" in the middle of an xpac (middle of the patch no less) are actually just braindead

sorry

[storm birch]

They provided dinars. They didn’t promise “dinars that will allow you to buy any piece you want” unless I’m misremembering

[sullen dove]

some amount of earning is fine but like the req should prolly be like waived a few weeks after it’s available

[sinful spoke]

woahh toxic

[cursive ridge]

maybe they thought blizzard didn't hate their m+ only playerbase

[young swan]

if they hated the player base they wouldve said they arent doing anything

[storm birch]

Luckily there are m+ trinkets that are at best a couple % dmg points less optimal for most classes than the bis raid loot

[warm crag]

[cursive ridge]

just a rug-pull is all, feels bad vs expectations created

[storm birch]

If you’re not willing to raid for the loot heroic track is there for a slight ilvl decrease 🤷‍♂️

[sage ridge]

Again I don't understand why people care if others get 2 raid pieces this far into the season

[young swan]

i dont think it is a rugpull

[weak grail]

the description u gived is how dinars were since their first release, so if they are not gonna be like that those are not dinars

[young swan]

they never promised anything

people just got their hopes up

with 0 information

[jovial summit]

Ego in a game

[cursive ridge]

you compare a system to dinars, people are going to expect it to work like dinars. should have tempered expectations more beforehand, IMO.

[storm birch]

They can have the same name with their implementation reworked though

[cursive ridge]

the entire point of dinars is to get myth items from raid.

[storm birch]

It’s still the same concept just tweaked

You can get myth items from the raid. Just kill the boss first

[sage ridge]

I mean why call it Dinars

[weak grail]

that´s why it sucks

[sage ridge]

And not just call it bad luck protection

[young swan]

pretty sure it was the playerbase that decided to get excited about dinars because of some ptr datamining

[sullen dove]

All I’m saying is boost costs boutta go way up

[weak grail]

it's not what ppl expected

[young swan]

it is literally only the players fault

[full valve]

we are basically getting ffxiv totems

[sullen dove]

gotta level up dragindeez 😏

[cursive ridge]

lol. yes. just kill the bosses. not everyone raids. and raiding is a huge commitment, so it's not a 'tiny tweak'. It's a gigantic tweak.

[young swan]

dinar = blp

they are the same

[jade ocean]

Season 2 dinar = bad luck protection.

[sinful spoke]

@sullen dovetook a while to find my sim but yeah

[sage ridge]

Yeah but the word Dinar is pretty obviously percieved a certain way and they know that

[sinful spoke]

this was crafted over hero bis

[sullen dove]

krill issue perhaps

[storm birch]

Why would they create an entire new concept when it’s the same thing as before just a gate to the requirements to choose the loot

[jovial summit]

U can also say its the devs faults for not curbing expectations and no clarifying earlier

[weak grail]

that´s my point, why calling them dinars on the first place

[storm birch]

Yea but if you don’t raid why do you deserve raid loot for free

[young swan]

sure you can, but that would be disingenuous

[modest condor]

you know every time dinars have existed they've worked slightly different right

[storm birch]

Get your m+ bis and keep loving

[sage ridge]

How does it affect you if a random LFR kid gets 2 pieces of loot?

[sullen dove]

Cuz deserving anything in this game is a fucking sham

[modest condor]

it's still the same thing, an item you get that you can use to target a specific raid item you want

[iron portal]

They keep changing them every expansion

I am not suprised

[modest condor]

there is just an extra limitation to it

[jovial summit]

The gas light is real

[weak grail]

but the base was there, get a limited amount of items without ilvl limitations

[sullen dove]

You got axekandi getting fyralath week 2 talking about how it shouldn’t be handed out on a silver platter to everyone

[modest condor]

the first implementation had ilvl limitations

you had to kill mythic bosses to be able to upgrade it to mythic ilvl

[iron portal]

^

[young swan]

they dont owe us explanations lmfao, especially for a piece of content that we knew they werent sure about

[modest condor]

it just wasnt the specific boss that dropped the item

but it was also a fated season, not a standard season

[storm birch]

Doesn’t affect me. But no one is entitled to loot especially if you’ve done nothing to earn it. I’ll be happy to earn my eye of kezan mythic with the dinar and if someone 4/8 heroic could buy it as well that just seems silly

[cursive ridge]

being able to get the max ilvl from doing puggable content ( first few myth bosses ) vs commiting to a mythic CE guild is such a gigantic gulf of difference

[sand crest]

I saw a 6/8hc player with mythic gallywix mount earlier

anything can be bought in wow

wdym

[sullen dove]

True just buy the boost

cluegi

[weak grail]

indeed, such a huge diff

[sand crest]

m gallywix is like 20M gold rn

[chilly fractal]

Trust the boost

[jovial summit]

A producers of a product does need to communicate and advertise their product correctly. Also people should communicate for a proper healthy relationship

[sullen dove]

Oh THATS why blizz did that

[cursive ridge]

do you really not understand that the commitment of applying/trialing/joining/commiting to weekly raid for CE is a gigantic commitment? You don't just casually go join a CE guild, its a large time/energy commitment

[sullen dove]

Wow token sales boutta go fuckin insane

man this company is so smart

[weak grail]

cus blizz devs do mythic carries? but devs don´t play their game

[warm crag]

i don't think you should be striving for a healthy relationship with a video game company lol

bit parasocial

[sage ridge]

This new system is like if they seperated the ilvls on Fyralath based on the difficulty you got it in

[storm birch]

Ok if people have the gold then go for it. How does that equate to a player just getting the loot for free. If they have the gold like that to spend then power to them

[jovial summit]

Ur weird for thinking a relationship between a producer and a consumer is weird. Interaction is the definition of relationship

[sullen dove]

I present: fyralath

blow up

No one cares about earning anything in this game

It does not matter

if they can make some cringe system like that

[sage ridge]

The thing is you still have to earn gear

Getting 2 pieces of gear is nothing

[storm birch]

Yes but if you don’t care to do that then that’s fine. There are 20 other trinkets on your bis list most of which are only a slight decrease. Grind for them

[sullen dove]

Lfr andies get legendary mythic weapon in 3 weeks where I’m progging fyrakk and get it 13 weeks after it comes out

[full valve]

cuz nothing is unique or prestigious anymore

[sullen dove]

they just omega boosting wow token sales with this move it’s fire tbh

[iron portal]

Clearly lfr player is better than you

[sullen dove]

realge

[storm birch]

If people want to spend their money to buy carries go for it.

[modest condor]

it's bad luck protection, not get any mythic item you want for free. I get that based on how dinars worked in dragonflight people may have set themselves up for disappointment, but that's on them.

[hardy bluff]

real

[full valve]

lemme get my mastery trinket with my other mastery trinket and pair it with my forgettable weapon

[sand crest]

it wouldve been cool to include dungeon gear to the dinar system though, especially since you only get one shot a week at myth track dung gear, unlike raid where you get boss kill plus vault

and they couldve made it where you need to time +12 of the corresponding dung

or whatever

[sullen dove]

again I’m not even upset for my sake over this like I’ll kill these bosses eventually but it’s just so brain dead for such a big part of the player base

but the blizz sloppy toppying of this is what’s wack

[sinful spoke]

couldnt be me

[cursive ridge]

this system is like asking for a steak and getting a cheeseburger. 'it's still beef' they say. Ya, but not what anyone wanted or expected.

[sage ridge]

Yeah same for me. I don't really care I just think there is a better way to go about it

[storm birch]

You’re forgetting that you’re in a loot roll with 19 ish other people when the loot drops. M+ you can farm heroic 4/6 gear all week long as much as you want

[edgy widget]

worth pointing out that Blizz didn't call them dinar from the get go - we did lol

[storm birch]

I think the loot acquisition is pretty balanced. I just wish there was a key level that allowed myth track gear to drop.

[spare steppe]

It just means that it only benefits <5% of raiders

[cursive ridge]

a lot of people are sick of raiding and just want to do keys, and hoped this system would be a step towards not needing to raid. that's why they re disappointed. lots of people are super over mythic raiding in this game.

[warm crag]

did you expect bis gear for logging in

[edgy widget]

benefits sales groups 🙃

[storm birch]

You think blizzard is trying to encourage people not to raid?

[modest condor]

benefits everyone that can still loot upgrades from raid

[storm birch]

Sounds like a terrible way to keep raiding alive lol

[cursive ridge]

no and this is a stupid argument. the gear system is entirely up to blizz, they tune how easy/hard it is. there is no such thing as 'entitlement' in gearing, it is completely arbitrary

[spare steppe]

oh theres gonna be a lot of gold being bought

[turbid bay]

how do you get dinars atm?

[warm crag]

what did you expect then

[ruby badge]

We should down lockenstock this week. My guild has 1 month to kill OAB.

[spare steppe]

you cant may 13th kill 4 bosses

[iron portal]

Atm, you dont

[hardy bluff]

doable

[turbid bay]

rip

[sand crest]

you've got 19 people rolling on str trinkets? 19 rolling on 2H? I get what you mean but you're never rolling agaisnt that many ppl, not rly a fair comparison. besides at this point hero track is useless, at least for me

[edgy widget]

All memes aside, it probably is the best way to avoid invalidating progression, though I do wish they had some way of allowing you to upgrade

e.g. if you buy H Jastor and then eventually kill M Gally, it would be nice if you could trade it in or upgrade it to M Jastor

[sullen dove]

Yea like the way it is now heroic items even existing in the vendor is pathetic

Complete waste of coins

[hardy bluff]

heroic jastor will still be bis for everyone not killing mythic galli

[warm crag]

you are against 20 ppl for jastor and kezan that kind of is that bad

[modest condor]

im never killing mythic gally, i can still buy heroic jastor

[gleaming siren]

This would be very sensible honestly

[sand crest]

fair point, certain items are an exception

[iron portal]

I believe in you. You can

[sullen dove]

The kill req also has to be account wide

[storm birch]

My point is that there’s a much smaller chance you’re getting loot in raid compared to an m+ dungeon that you can farm as many times as you want in a week.

[sullen dove]

literally insane if it’s not

[modest condor]

im not raiding

[jovial summit]

If they keep with the model they need to make mythic raid more accessible. It to hard raiding 10-20 hours a week and with 20 people of similar level with comp restrictions

[solemn plover]

disagree

[sinful spoke]

i just dont get the point of them locking them behind killing the bosses when theyre already giving us a huge power boost with the ilvl jump

[solemn plover]

im against you

[iron portal]

My faith might have problems now

[modest condor]

[merry pumice]

I wouldn’t care if the M+ trinkets besides one didn’t feel terrible

[iron portal]

Neither am i
Washed up. My peak days are over

[jovial summit]

Valid point

[iron portal]

Dinars cant make me mad

[warm crag]

we are completely opposed in opinion let us have children and let them decide

[sinful spoke]

huh

[storm birch]

Yea sorta like carrying your bad luck protection over if you wanted to secure H track BiS. This would make sense

[sinful spoke]

freaky

[solemn plover]

their genes will be messed up

[weak grail]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/dinars-return-as-new-rewards-in-gallagio-loyalty-raid-renown-track-355141 So it´s wowhead fault XD

[sullen dove]

There are def better things to buy than h bis

[ruby badge]

I just hope nothing silly happens like current mythic gear doesn't gain the two extra upgrades and only new drops do. That seems like something that won't happen but I've seen dumber things.

[sullen dove]

crafted weap almost always better

[edgy widget]

ever heard of a "colloquiallism"?

[jovial summit]

They also said dinars themself in an interview im pretty sure

[dry holly]

strangest feeling that the season will be over by the time our theoretical children-we-are-having-to-decide-a-debate will make a decision regarding this

[modest condor]

that word is too complicated for my warrior brain

[edgy widget]

yes that's what the word "colloquialism" means

[sullen dove]

Applies just as much to blizz as it does us yea

the name of it doesn’t rly matter anyway

[storm birch]

I think there are plenty of 2 day 3 hour groups out there that can push through the raid at a decent pace. 6 hours a week isn’t exorbitant

[weak grail]

ever heard of "gaslighting"

[edgy widget]

its a ubiquitous term that everyone can understand, but the point is that Blizzard never said they'd work exactly like DF or SL (also worth pointing out that the DF version didn't work like SL either)

[storm birch]

I do wish there were 10 man raids but balance is probably a nightmare..

[edgy widget]

irrelevant, because that's not what's happening there

[storm birch]

But getting 20 people together than be tough. And yet people want incentives to not have to mythic raid smh..

[warm crag]

at least we will have the correct opinion even if it will take ~5 years for them to gain coherent thought

[dry holly]

People called them dinars because that's what they were called before and it's what people knew. It's not that complicated.

[edgy widget]

^

[jovial summit]

Does it really matter what they wanted it to mean if the community wanted something different

[sinful spoke]

chat why is spongie schizo posting rn

[warm crag]

you need to actually look up the definition of that buddy

[weak grail]

so u dont think some players where kinda hyped cus of dinars release?

[ruby badge]

Also 6 ilvl higher by just farming some crests* is a large power boost

[hardy bluff]

"rn"

[storm birch]

Like I said before. Whether they said dinars or not is irrelevant. Just because it’s still a cartel chip that you can trade a broker for loot doesn’t mean that it has to work the exact same way it always has.

[warm crag]

ye rn might be a stretch

[young swan]

i think they made a mistake by assuming they would work the exact same as before given all of the context behind their release being completely different

[jovial summit]

But thats what majority wanted

[warm crag]

apparently the majority of ppl want to log in and get bis gear who figured

[edgy widget]

if anyone is gaslighting here it's you lol, you had no reason to just assume they'd work the same way as in Dragonflight (which also weren't called Dinar btw)

Especially considering the DF ones didn't work like they did in Shadowlands (the only version actually called Dinar btw)

[hardy bluff]

yea

[burnt kelp]

I think the majority of people do mythic+ and want mythic+ bis to be looted in m+

[sullen dove]

The change is justified yes it’s just still a dogshit change

[cursive ridge]

people were hoping for a way to get the few overtuned items in the patch without having to commit to weekly gaming schedules. thats all it is. people are sad that's not the case.

[hardy bluff]

real and raid from raid

[edgy widget]

ofc they are, players always want more for less effort

[weak grail]

mb for keeping my expectatives high when we are talking about blizzard

[edgy widget]

it really is your bad

lol

if you've played this game for any serious length of time, you should know better

[burnt kelp]

that is indeed not a move you should do

[cursive ridge]

it's not just less effort, a lot of people are over mythic raiding and hoped to not have to chain themselves to their desk for 2-3 evenings a week for a good items.

I would be happy to grind for dinars

[jovial summit]

Damn. Can blame a brotha for having their faith restored after this goated season

[storm birch]

I think the one guy summed it up perfectly. He was hoping for the dinars to give people a reason not to have to raid. Which is exactly the problem

[edgy widget]

it is absolutely less effort

[hardy bluff]

you can by doing the raid

[storm birch]

Raid is hurting on numbers . We don’t need a system that discourages raiding smh

[edgy widget]

killing the boss on LFR is demonstrably less effort than on M, full stop

[cursive ridge]

do you understand that making a committment to a mythic raid guild is somethign many people literally cannot do

[hardy bluff]

yea i know

[jovial summit]

But why does lfr give hero track then

[edgy widget]

because someone at blizz decided so

[cursive ridge]

if you can't block out 2-3 evenings a week forever, you can't CE raid. lol

[edgy widget]

they threw you a bone without giving you the whole steak

[jovial summit]

[edgy widget]

[hardy bluff]

yea and if you cant play 20 hours a week you cant get m+ title

whats your point

[dry holly]

The important thing to remember is that nobody is entitled to anything, except to give Blizzard $180 a year. You could be permanently banned today for literally no reason or because you accidentally created a Windwalker Monk on a Tuesday instead of on a Wednesday, and that'd be that.

[jovial summit]

So out of left field

[cursive ridge]

the types of time commitments for both of those activities are very different, and title doesn't grant any gear progression like raid does.

[hardy bluff]

i have 3 wives 14 kids and 2 jobs and can only play 10minutes per day please give me loot

[edgy widget]

I mean if you really wanna bitch about anything, yall should bitch about the fact that raid loot eclipses M+

But considering that M+ is a tacked on system with no competitive rewards structure, I don't think that's ever gonna change

[cursive ridge]

'tacked on system' yet people enjoy it 100x more than raid. raid is a dying system

[edgy widget]

doesn't matter how many people enjoy it (also you really don't have anything to back up that claim lol)

[cursive ridge]

mythic raiding eroding every patch

as playerbase ages out of it

[edgy widget]

in fact, I'm pretty certain that the opposite is true - there are likely a lot more people raiding Mythic than there are pushing high end M+

[sullen dove]

damn I’m with that guy the word eroding tickled something in my brain there

[cursive ridge]

my in laws invite me to a great dinner tuesday. whoops we're on th ce boss and everyone will be mad/im benched if I call out. ya no thanks im good on raiding

[hardy bluff]

then dont

[edgy widget]

then don't raid, nobody is forcing you to lol

[cursive ridge]

yep, I don't

[hardy bluff]

but dont cry because you cant get the loot

[edgy widget]

but you shouldn't expect things FROM raid if you're not going to raid either

[cursive ridge]

I can, it's up to blizz how the loot system works, lmao

[edgy widget]

I don't expect to be handed PvP appearances or glad titles just because I can't be assed to do it

[cursive ridge]

they can make it work like that or not, im allowed to voice my opinion that i'd prefer a more generous loot system.

[sullen dove]

I don’t expect lfr andies to be handed fyralath either yet that system ended up how it was

[jovial summit]

Im still on team: myth raid for cosmetics only

[sullen dove]

Definitely very consistent view

[warm crag]

idk this is the only genuinely valid point here tho you shouldnt have to raid/pvp for m+ gear and all the other constellations too

[sullen dove]

Blizz has

on dogshit like that

[edgy widget]

you can voice your opinion but you should voice it toward the right people, not just sit and bitch in a class discord which is divorced from the decision

[cursive ridge]

well im miffed about it so here I am, complaining to the void.

I would like to raid consistently, but I can't anymore.

[jovial summit]

What would be better the wowhead comments.

[edgy widget]

also, just friendly advice, it helps if you actually use demonstrable arguments and not "I don't like raiding, so I'm going to call it a dying system despite no proof to back it up"

[vague sierra]

Just unsubscribe. 🤷‍♂️

[cursive ridge]

it feels bad to have a suboptimal character. I would like a path towards an optimally built one. but it doesn't exist right now

[dry holly]

That decision was the same as this one. WoW token exists, and crafting that itme was very expensive.

[edgy widget]

it does exist, it just requires doing something you dont' wanna do

[sullen dove]

Crafting was so insignificant

Compared to actually getting it

lol what who care about the cost of it at all

[storm birch]

@cursive ridge what do you play that a 3rd/4th bis trinket isn’t highly competitive

[mellow bloom]

dont or cant is sometimes different tho

[sullen dove]

and maybe 1 wow token at most if you’re actually a brokie

[warm crag]

it literally is right there you're just not willing to take the path lol

[storm birch]

Or even just the Heroic version of whatever it is you’re talking about

[edgy widget]

fine line, in this case it is very much "don't"

[cursive ridge]

every guild I've raided in since DF has died, fewer and fewer of my friends raid anymore than the used to. I guess it's just how it feels to me, I see fewer people raiding on my bnet every tier.

[dry holly]

That's the point though. 1 WoW token sold.

[warm crag]

which is fine, but im not complaining about not having the glad illusions from that one season and all the neat glad mounts in sl

[mellow bloom]

now its up to you to give me mythic HoC. call ION

[dry holly]

Any time you implement a feature that can sell WoW tokens, you're generating the company revenue.

[sullen dove]

For a very attainable amount of gold and in game mats without spending money

[cursive ridge]

the gulf between scheduled CE commitment and not is like the grand canyon. it's not just a step. mythic raiding is literally a lifestyle lol.

[warm crag]

or the mythic ilvl weapon from sl season 1

[edgy widget]

I can give you Mythic HoC, we do sales ever tier 😉

[storm birch]

My guild has like 6 raid groups. They’re not all CE pushers but there’s still people raiding. Everyone has their own anecdotal experience just because your friends aren’t doesn’t mean people aren’t

[sullen dove]

U are not grinding millions of gold to buy a boost unless you are an ah freak

[jovial summit]

Time to buy myth gally lockouts

[hardy bluff]

its the same as having soccer practice twice a week

its not that crazy man

[iron portal]

CE raiding is commitment but i feel you are making it bigger than it actually is

[hardy bluff]

what he said

[edgy widget]

Yeah it's something you gotta commit to, but it's no different from practically any group hobby

[cursive ridge]

ok lol. I have raided for a long time, there is way more social pressure to log in every week than most other activities since your absence directly fucks over 20 other people

[edgy widget]

you don't think there's similar social pressure to show up to soccer practice?

[cursive ridge]

it's not like 'hey im not gonna be at commander night'

[iron portal]

You allocate time ahead vs. Random time playing wow

[mellow bloom]

log in to WC3. 1v1 ladder

[cursive ridge]

wow raiding certainly has more social pressure than any other hobby I have participated in

[edgy widget]

just like raiding, it depends on how competitive your team is

[jovial summit]

No way u just said 1v1 me bro

[cursive ridge]

competitive group sports is certainly similar to wow raiding

[storm birch]

Scheduled absences are fine. Most guilds look for 80-90% attendance and understand when things come up

[edgy widget]

if you're on a very low tier casual team, yeah they probably don't mind if you skip
if you're in a semi-pro soccer league... yeah you're prob gonna get benched or cut

[cursive ridge]

ya that is a similar situation to raiding for sure

[edgy widget]

but yes, scheduled absences are understandable, I've been in plenty of guilds where people took week(s) off at a time

[iron portal]

Went from dinars to soccer

I am sorry, football

[storm birch]

Raiding and sports are actually pretty similar

Or if you’re liquid raiding and oil rig workers

[jovial summit]

But why does the game have to be that hard where u cut ties with friends for loot

[storm birch]

[sullen dove]

The council of EU will take this into consideration

verdict will be passed shortly

[hardy bluff]

one of the good ones

[young swan]

whos cutting ties with friends for loot lmfao

[iron portal]

Football

There, decided it for you

[mellow bloom]

i agree that for a lot of people you can manage that. for example i already wrote that in arms channel, working 3 shifts. i couldnt even sometimes make 3 raids in 1 month ( 4 raids per month). there is no myth guild in the world taking me with my work hours

[young swan]

if they're friends you wouldnt have to cut ties to join a better guild

[hardy bluff]

we have someone working shifts

hes theres like 60% of the time

[jovial summit]

That is cutting time with friends… most people game for fun with a friend group.

[young swan]

no its not

ur just not actively raiding with them

[cursive ridge]

I think people are just losing the point that the entire loot system is arbitrary and up to blizzard, saying 'deserved' 'entitled' doesn't really mean much, since blizzard decides it from the ground up. They could mail everyone full bis tomorrow if they wanted to. I would like a system that enables me to have a fully optimal character for M+ without having to commit to a mythic raid group. The game does not work like that right now, but df-esque dinars would be a step towards that. They didn't go that direction, alright, which is why me (and others) are disappointed. That's all there is to it.

[mellow bloom]

working in ICU in a hospital the shifts vary a lot, somedays i even have to pull double shifts where i work 18hrs a day without notice. one shift ended, starting next. thats why im kidna fucked with the changes

[karmic fiber]

Anyone have an issue where they don't have whirlwind stacks/enrage showing ontop of the personal resource display after the patch?

[young swan]

u can still do other activities with them outside of raid lol

[sullen dove]

real

[edgy widget]

that may be true, but it is still ultimately a choice based on your circumstance

and not everything in life is going to be available to everyone... that's just a basic facet of life

[young swan]

cutting time and cutting ties are not the same thing

[jovial summit]

Default ui is borked since patch for many things

[sullen dove]

what they decide is deserved for players is a joke

[karmic fiber]

@jovial summit Do you know if its intentional to move people to the cooldown manager thing or is it just bugged lol

[storm birch]

Unfortunately your lack of care as to whether people raid or not has me not able to sympathize with you. Take your heroic track that is at worst a 1.5% damage loss and carry on in m+

[edgy widget]

I'm sorry that your predicament means you can't maximize everything in World of Warcraft, but chances are that applies to a lot of things too

[mellow bloom]

BUT MY EPICS

[jovial summit]

Prob a bug. But idk

[sullen dove]

The meat is raw

[dry holly]

Only tangentially related: You can actually recolor all items to be orange now and be fully decked in Legendary gear.

[edgy widget]

I mean think about it from a detached perspective - yeah it sucks that the single parent with three jobs can't get max Mythic raid loot in WoW

But what's the solution? Make it so accessible that anyone can do it regardless of their time commitment? That sounds nice for that guy, but affects a whole lot more people at the same time

[cursive ridge]

I've raided for a long time, I respect raiders and raiding, just hoped for a path to max gearing that didn't include it. That is all.

[sullen dove]

Doesn’t rly affect anyone tho no

People just get the item

[edgy widget]

of course it does

[sullen dove]

Who cares

[iron portal]

You are playing game where upgrade chase is neverending. You are forever slave of getting big upgrade or next huge item until you cut the game out anyway

[mellow bloom]

swap raid size to 5 man. easier to shift things around with 4 other people

[cursive ridge]

Could just have multiple paths lead to the same gear. scheduled raiding could get it faster, but more overall hours in M+ could get it as well, more total hours but not scheduled. It's completely up to blizzard.

[edgy widget]

I actually would like to reduce raid sizes, but I'd probably go to 15

[clever belfry]

less people buy my boost buddy

[dry holly]

Don't you mean 8 man?

[edgy widget]

they could, but M+ is not a well designed system for that

[sullen dove]

Can say like “oh invalidates people doing mythic raid” but like not like ur playing mythic for 1 or 2 singular items a season

u want the achievements and mounts

[sullen dove]

realge

[storm birch]

Sure but largely the loot

[dry holly]

and then we can ride on butterfinger mounts and fight Dante from Devil May Cry or whatever.

[storm birch]

I can’t speak for everyone

[cursive ridge]

I think it would be cool if they put their focus towards something like that.

[clever belfry]

u very much know people aren't like that

[storm birch]

But I’m doing it for the progression feeling and the upgrades so I can pump harder in m+

[edgy widget]

you say that, but while it starts with the "1-2 item" people are talking about now, it quickly expands - this guy Heinric is already making that example

[cursive ridge]

Raiding is a unique activity and the people who enjoy it, are going to keep enjoying it, even if another activity can provide similar rewards eventually.

[sullen dove]

I mean there’s no way it expands past 2 items ever

[edgy widget]

lul

[timber hare]

What would be the best way to implement mythic track loot from high end keys?

[sullen dove]

Thinking that is delusional, even just 1 a season is significant

[hardy bluff]

the vault

[sullen dove]

I think it’d be cool to use all 6 chips and brute force a kill requirement to get 1 mythic item at least

[vague sierra]

Muh slippery slope, people gonna just log on and get hall of fame soon.

[jovial summit]

Make mythic plus equivalent

[young swan]

okay but the dude literally said he wants a perfectly optimal character without ever stepping in mythic raid

[sullen dove]

Rather than your choice being buy a boost or buy a heroic item

[dry holly]

I very much expect WoW to sell Dinars in the Shop at some point.

[sullen dove]

Yea I mean that’s parts cooked

[warm crag]

i already have to spam m+ at the start of a season to pull up to raid in decent gear id rather not have to spam m+ more than i have to

[edgy widget]

hall of fame is gonna be closed before this matters

[ivory ingot]

high end keys is like challenge modes in wod cosmetic and mounts only

[jovial summit]

Cheaper than a carry group

[quiet breach]

raiding is way cooler than m+

[edgy widget]

there isn't a good way tbh; it's an uncapped scaling system and even the highest levels of M+ require less general coordination than M raiding (the real issue is just running into absolute numbers)

[warm crag]

like what you actually want is gearing systems that are detached from each other but instead of voicing that you're saying a bad luck protection system is not good enough cause its not free gear for everyone

susge

[quiet breach]

no matter what they do with m+ I will always prioritize raiding

[vague sierra]

Ya, but using a slippery slope argument of when does it end or how many pieces will people keep getting is just silly. We're talking 2 pieces.

[cursive ridge]

I've been trying to articulate my points as much as possible, I am not asking to be mailed a set of bis gear upon logging in. I've played the game and raided a long time, just providing another point of view and discusson about gearing.

[edgy widget]

you are talking 2 peices, other people are not

and this is hardly the first time the conversation has come up - it's been repeating since M+ was created in Legion

[ivory ingot]

doesnt effect archimtiros

[sullen dove]

If other ppl are talking about more than 2 pieces they are flat out wrong and should stop talking

[ivory ingot]

[mellow bloom]

probably wouldnt be all that bad if you had decent trinkets you could get this time around that are not either raid or delve heroic trinkets

[vague sierra]

Then they're being silly, too, now that we have the info

[edgy widget]

that's certainly a perspective lol

[vague sierra]

This 100%

[jovial summit]

I see a trend. Everyone complaining doesnt mythic raid. Everyone content does

[sullen dove]

But the parts not about getting full mythic bis and just being able to get 1-2 good items a tier is more than fair

[young swan]

what about 3 pieces

[sullen dove]

perish

account delete

[edgy widget]

you get the loot you earn

idk what else to tell you

[sullen dove]

Unless the loot is fyralath

[edgy widget]

you still get it eventually

[full valve]

content when the

[vague sierra]

Nah, you get loot that loot council grants you.

[mellow bloom]

my good friend archim will boost me through LOU next week

[sullen dove]

very cool getting it 10 weeks later than someone doing lfr once

[edgy widget]

certainly blizz systems aren't perfect, but they never will be either

[vague sierra]

Don't earn shit, if jastor never drops, you don't get it no matter howany times you kill it.

[quiet breach]

how many weeks into s2 are we at this point?

[warm crag]

thats what this system is for lol

[ivory ingot]

get it in vault

[fickle cedar]

what a shitty change, they had a good dinar system back in df, why fuck it up

[edgy widget]

9

[young swan]

it wouldnt have mattered to me if random lfr jerry # 5 got mythic slots or some shit but i feel like getting upset over not being able to just buy ur best item because of faulty assumptions is dumb as shit

[edgy widget]

well, 9 raid weeks

[quiet breach]

so we got like another, 18ish weeks until s3?

[hardy bluff]

maybe a bit less

[edgy widget]

we dunno exactly but probably ~14-18ish yeah

[storm birch]

Yea I wouldn’t care. But i am overall happier with this implementation. I will still feel like I earned whatever I cash in on

[burnt kelp]

the best way is to do like pvp did and give mythic+ loot an ilvl boost inside mythic keys so raiders can keep their precious loot and mythic+ players don't have to raid

everyone is happy

[hardy bluff]

yes

[sullen dove]

6 coins brute force a kill req and kill reqs are account wide and its cinema

[hardy bluff]

[vague sierra]

I mean, I guess, but i purely get how anyone who isn't raiding CE but is still doing difficult content in m+ just gets fucked here. There's no similar system for them, pretty unfair.

[mellow bloom]

also rework warrior and give me grommash spirit that does fat bladestorms

[sullen dove]

but they can’t be bothered for either of those probably

[edgy widget]

I think this implementation is the best way of not invalidating progression by simply allowing people to buy stuff from bosses they haven't even attempted, much less killed

however, I think the real solution would be to allow people to upgrade their item somehow

• buy H Jastor w/ dinar, then kill M Gally, you can upgrade it to M Jastor

that's still not perfect for people who don't raid, but it gives them some avenue of using and benefitting from their dinar, without just sitting on it till they kill a boss they may or may not see

[hardy bluff]

i raid mythic and get fucked if i dont do m+

[burnt kelp]

not before 11.2.5 sadly

[remote bobcat]

"I pay the same amount of money you pay"
"I deserve the same amount of loot"

kekW

[rich veldt]

yes the progress in mythic raiding where every 2 weeks bossess gets nerfed so every mickey mouse player can kill it with time

[ivory ingot]

already have a heroic jastor myth is only like 10k dps increase

[vague sierra]

I mean, you have to do +10's. It's negligible content.

[stray phoenix]

How about we remove all Dinars and buff fury in keys 🤔

[ivory ingot]

[hardy bluff]

[ivory ingot]

uncap meatcleaver

[jovial summit]

Yep and when u say cash in on you literally mean cash 💰

[ivory ingot]

[hardy bluff]

still shit and takes time

[quiet breach]

make meat cleaver 8 target

[full valve]

Ill never get why would u only want to do 1 thing and 1 thing only in the game, but this segregation of content might be what ppl want

[sullen dove]

real

powder that makes you say real

[sand crest]

fuck uncapping meat cleaver, buff odyns and make unhinged cast odyns instead of bt

[mellow bloom]

buff delves to give me mythic loot

[quiet breach]

[jovial summit]

Now thats something majority people in this channel might agree on

[remote bobcat]

AYO?

HASHAHA

COOK

[modest condor]

real

[sand crest]

😄

[remote bobcat]

least OP cook

[rich veldt]

okay now cap the head enchants behind 6+ masks

[ivory ingot]

lose no ST dmg going aoe spec uncapped aoe

[storm birch]

I’ll either earn the loot through gameplay or I’ll unfortunately not have the skill level to
Acquire it and will look forward to improving next season!

[mellow bloom]

this man fixed fury warrior

[ivory ingot]

seems balanced

[warm crag]

understandable but im willing to claim the crossover of ppl pushing bleeding edge stuff that genuinely need the mythic perfect gear to even attempt keys and ppl incapable of commiting to a mythic guild is literally not there

[storm birch]

No buying here

[jovial summit]

Real talk corruption and this dinar cook feel the same. Weaker of previously liked systems

[warm crag]

like you have to commit to a schedule to get to that high of a key level so you kidna just commit to a mythic guild at that point right, but the tldr is to decouple m+ power from raid power ty

[hardy bluff]

full power corruptions would be bad

[burnt kelp]

I really don't wanna go back to 400% haste

big TOM

[sullen dove]

Someone in arms chat said make m+ gear work like pvp gear

Gain 50 Ilvl in a dungeon

[warm crag]

i mean ye

[sullen dove]

yess carry 3 sets of gear at one time

[dry holly]

(melee player furiously hitting keys)

[wise solar]

Uncapping meat cleaver wouldn't affect our Raid DMG, while OF buff would, so in the end it would cause more nerfs 🙂

[warm crag]

dont make me spam m+ at the start of a season so i can raid

[storm birch]

Yea I’m confused as well as to how 3 hours 2 times a week is too much but we’re in need of BiS gear for m+. What kinda m+ we talking here. Cause people doing 18’s or whatever with heroic track trinkets

[chilly fractal]

Yeeees

[vague sierra]

Man, it's literally the world I live in. My previous ce's guilds players are only doing keys now, and my raid times directly overlap with their key times. I already don't get to play with them because of that. They're 100% putting in the effort and skill to get mythic gear rofl.

[burnt kelp]

Some people work with shifts and can't lock 2 nights a week

some people have a small group of friends and don't want to play with 19 strangers

[formal glacier]

fact

[burnt kelp]

I can list an infinite amount of reasons why someone would want to push m+ and not want to raid

[hardy bluff]

yea and its the same the other way around

[vague sierra]

Idk, this doesn't matter, I guess. I already cancelled sub with the state of this troll balancing last two seasons. This playerbase milking is just icing on the cake.

[hardy bluff]

doesnt mean anything

[formal glacier]

Pushing m+ with a core5 feel more immersive than a 20 man raid with 19 stranger

[oblique trail]

19 strangers is an odd way to look at raid groups

[iron portal]

I dont tend to raid with 19 strangers

[edgy widget]

unfortunately it's rarely what designers want

[oblique trail]

It's as if your 4 other premades in M+ are also just strangers that never evolve from that

[burnt kelp]

it's the exact same problem that happened in shadowlands season 1 where people felt forced to do pvp

[mellow bloom]

i rather have discussions with 50 strangers in a discord class server

[burnt kelp]

to get items for raid/m+

[edgy widget]

cause it encourages more segregation - guarantee you the majority of raiders would stop ever doing M+ if the loot tracks were fully segregated (and vice versa, M+ players would never go into raid)

[formal glacier]

It is easier to play in m+ with 3-4 friends

[warm crag]

you can't commit to a mythic raid schedule (fair) but can commit to pushing keys with a team to the point where you need literal bis gear to continue?

[iron portal]

You just saying that cause you dont have 19 friends to raid with

[mellow bloom]

i mean you dont need it for title, but the ilvl push and dmg push would help a solo pugger for sure

[iron portal]

[edgy widget]

tbf the vast majority of people who bitch about "needing literal bis gear to push M+" aren't even pushing competitive M+ in the first place... they just like to think that they might someday

[formal glacier]

also true

[remote bobcat]

theres a lot of people who play at that level and collectively put in the time doing content at the high level but they don't have the continuous time of raid evenings or w/e available to em. That's a very small amount of people and im not part of that group but I could imagine they'd get hella salty

[hardy bluff]

the people pushing for title just buy the boost because they have gold

[edgy widget]

which is fairly natural, everyone likes to think they'll get there eventually... whether or not it's feasible for them

[sullen dove]

I mean hey there are people that take 3 month breaks from the game and come back to get title in 12 keys

Like it can just happen!

[edgy widget]

just like everyone like to think they'll be rich someday if only they just keep grinding away...

[warm crag]

then you're skilled enough to boost to buy a boost to just nab the items with dinars then idk

[storm birch]

yea but you don't need a myth track trinket or whatever from raid to push that

[edgy widget]

ofc you don't

[storm birch]

you could take your 3rd or 4th trinket if needed and still be mad competitive

[edgy widget]

people always aggrandize these small differences

[remote bobcat]

you and I both know that this is a niché counter argument

[edgy widget]

the diff between H Jastor and M is like... 10-15k dps which is a joke, of course that's not going to make any difference in your ability to push M+

[warm crag]

you are inventing niche people

[burnt kelp]

again, the exact same thing that happened in shadowlands season 1. No one was actually "forced" to do pvp to push m+ or raids except method and echoes or whatever they are called, people just don't like doing content they don't enjoy to do content they like more easily

[remote bobcat]

valid

[formal glacier]

well i'd just like to have BiS in Mythic so i feel a lilbit less useless on a useless class in m+. But at this point my whole team would also have their bis and it would change nothing xd

[edgy widget]

I understand, and I sympathize

[rich veldt]

raid would be more pleasant if i dont drop to 40fps when jimmy casts a spell

[hollow elk]

hey at least i get a chance at getting the trinkets. ill be happy with my hero eye of kezan..

[storm birch]

how do i write a letter to blizzard about fury in m+

[warm crag]

yeah true but i also didn't demand they take the mythic weapons away from those that earned it, i asked for the gearing system as a whole to seperate raid and pvp

[hollow elk]

i wish they would give us dinars for the fucking delve trinkets lol

[storm birch]

I need their P.O. box I have a fresh new pen here ready to write

[warm crag]

and they did exactly that so shrug

[cursive ridge]

Since the dawn of MMORPGs their core, quintessential gameplay has been loot progression. Getting the best loot is a goal unto itself

[formal glacier]

@edgy widget so we on the same page, what are you considering competitive m+ ? Like MDI team 18-19 ?

[burnt kelp]

yeah and I want them to do the same thing with mythic+ and raids

so people that don't like m+ don't feel forced to do it early patch for their raid

and people that don't like raids don't feel forced to do it either

[fickle cedar]

honestly either change the dinar system to df or don't add it at all

[warm crag]

same bestie

[radiant plank]

BiS mythic aint even that great for keys, its a weapon with no secondaries and a 2min on use

[storm birch]

is it really loot progression if you can just buy the best stuff without any effort

sounds just like a handout to me

how does that feel rewarding serious question

[edgy widget]

I mean it's not an exact target, and all kinda relative, but right now I would consider 16+ to be on the high end sure

[warm crag]

why ask for a blp system for raiders to be removed instead of raid and m+ power being seperated

[full valve]

I mean blizzard used to be hella stubborn with their content choices until like dragonflight

[dry holly]

The trinket from Gallywix is also not amazing at all for M+

[burnt kelp]

it feels extra bad this season because all m+ trinkets are garbage except floodgate

[cursive ridge]

they can make it take effort. It's just the difference between scheduled weekly gaming, and flexible gaming.

[edgy widget]

yes and no, though this is one thing that still hasn't changed either so

[burnt kelp]

so you're stuck with a 658 trinket unless you get lucky on a map/do the raid

[edgy widget]

it's really hard to find an comparable analogy between the two though

[cursive ridge]

there's a secret third option, called paying a guild gold for a run through.

[full valve]

the strictness on alts and systems is a great example of something blizzard was always stubborn to change lol

[formal glacier]

Bet, so let be real now, CE is easier to get than most of the 16's keys.

[edgy widget]

there's nothing in M+ that is as difficult as coordinating 20 players on harder M raid bosses, full stop

[dry holly]

They need to tune the DFC trinket that summons a cart to be the best trinket. Think of how many mine carts could be summoned.

[warm crag]

source

[cursive ridge]

definitely, they are separate activities that have non comparable challenges.

[formal glacier]

So why would someone pushing 16's wouldnt be able to get the ebst gear available as the raider going for cE

[modest condor]

hard disagree

[edgy widget]

A) depends on when we're talking about
B) I think you're confusing participation with effort

[remote bobcat]

mythc raiding is also less deadly though

[modest condor]

CE takes people months of progress, i did half the +15s first try

[remote bobcat]

15s arent hard

[oblique trail]

It's quite deadly when 1 single individual pops a Mugzee mine too early

[storm birch]

absolutely not. IMO m+ is a lot more individual skill related. CE you are relying on a ton of extra factors and players

[full valve]

They tried to, back in the day u used to need mythi+/raid to get gear for pvp, they went slowly segregating the content by making gear specific for each... mythic is the odd one out tho

[cursive ridge]

CE takes a massive logistical effort that is not really comparable to anything else in game.

[warm crag]

could you survive a coin roll? noob

[edgy widget]

in some ways, but yes I awknowledged earlier that M raid requires a lot more coordination while M+ generally runs into an absolute numbers issue (such is the nature of an uncapped system)

[remote bobcat]

well duh

[storm birch]

19 other people you have to count on to get their act right

[oblique trail]

Nyo :3

Because I'm not a monk

[warm crag]

wtf

[edgy widget]

I can 🙂

with like 1mil hp left

[radiant plank]

Cooked take

[solemn plover]

What

[radiant plank]

could not be furthrr from truth

[oblique trail]

I was Arms with 10 ilvl less than people have now

somewhat

[remote bobcat]

16s are piss easy

fuc ku mean

[cursive ridge]

Just different things. I know plenty of CE friends that can't hack it in a +15 key.

I know title gamers that suck absolute ass in raid, grey parsing and floor poving nonstop.

[oblique trail]

Should've just had DBTS bound to every button I suppose then I could've lived a coin

[edgy widget]

more like PvP is the odd one out, but PvP also exists under a very different ruleset than PvE activities, so it kinda makes more sense

[remote bobcat]

because they dont care about m+.

[modest condor]

see that's the problem, you're playing arms

fury would have lived

[storm birch]

and there's lots of high m+ players who have no clue how to raid. It's interchangable that doesn't prove anything

[formal glacier]

well i do get CE when i was raiding before my work prevent me to lock 2 night a week and i def think it is easier to get a CE than pushing competitive keys

[edgy widget]

it goes both ways, but there's a thing called "observation bias" which comes to mind

[storm birch]

poddyC had a discussion exactly about that topic

it goes both ways

[cursive ridge]

ya, they are different games. I also said the inverse there.

[oblique trail]

I did 10-15 pulls as Furor krieger and did not like it, and became an execute bot, so I truly did just pick wrong

Unlucky for me

[remote bobcat]

16s are not competitive

[edgy widget]

but again, I think yall are confusing participation with effort

[remote bobcat]

16s are puggable

my guy

[edgy widget]

fact of the matter is that the vast majority of the playerbase doesn't engage with high end M+ becuase there's really no reason for them to

[formal glacier]

from a guy which highest key a 13 you do talk alot

xd

[remote bobcat]

i dont m+ on my warrior

my g

[cursive ridge]

all 16s is literally .1% top players...what does competitive even mean if thats not competitive

[edgy widget]

and so it looks "difficult" in the sense that not many people have done it, but that's also just because not many people have bothered to do it

[solemn plover]

I did a key this season

[formal glacier]

aand i do say 16 cause Archimost said earlier we can talk about ''competitive'' from 16+ atm

[sour frigate]

16 competitive to get into it

[modest condor]

proud of you

[rich veldt]

vast majority cant be arsed to do m+ and stare at looking for group all day playing non meta class for magical internet points

[tight idol]

What about using a dinar to upgrade the heroic raid slots to myth

[modest condor]

maybe next season you'll be able to do 2 keys

[hardy bluff]

sorry to hear...

[solemn plover]

Depends really

[sour frigate]

gamer

[warm crag]

we've been taking it slow

[solemn plover]

I get scared

[edgy widget]

I said it was on the current higher end, but again - pariticipation is not reflective of effort

[full valve]

There was a video about someone recommending blizzard adding sets specific to mythic+ the way pvp works with the ilvl or even 2/4sets to it... but ppl were quick on lashing out saying stuff like "If they make mythic+ gear good then ill have to do it" so idk... ill never understand playing a MMO just for 1 activity lol

[solemn plover]

When i do too much damage it scares me

[cursive ridge]

youre definitely right. the systems are quite different and appeal to different players. I think it would be good if blizzard focused on rewarding both types of players.

[edgy widget]

and there are plenty of people here who routinely get title every season who can back up my claim that M raid coordination is a whole lot more difficult than pushing keys

[cursive ridge]

I totally agree, the skillsets for both are straight different.

[edgy widget]

I don't disagree, I only said that designers don't generally like to do that because it encourages further segregation

and the ideal is that players engage with multiple different systems, not just their most liked one

[cursive ridge]

even the time commitments are different. Title often is a huge no-life at the end of the season, but can be very casual/spontaneous up until then

[rich veldt]

stop dps stop dps milk milk milk jimmy dont stand in fire

[warm crag]

@compact siren

[edgy widget]

kick kick kick stun move out of frontal

[cursive ridge]

For sure, I just think that mythic raid is a unique activity in its scheduled requirement that is simply untenable for a large number of players, so it's not that they don't want ot participate, they can't realistically. Makes it difficult to balance.

[burnt kelp]

lots of kicking that's for sure

except when prot paladin is meta

[rich veldt]

dont get that far bro i stare at lfg then log off

[edgy widget]

I was talking about M+

[burnt kelp]

those paladins are freaks let me tell you that

[rich veldt]

im on the training dummy

[full valve]

they get demolish instant cast

[burnt kelp]

don't remind me

I hate them so much...

[full valve]

lmao

[rich veldt]

if they locking dinars behind mythic boss kills then i will grab my pitchfork that they need to lock corruption behind 8 masked run

amen

[burnt kelp]

they get demolish instant cast that doesn't take a keybind and doesn't desynch

delete ret paladins

[modest condor]

preach

[full valve]

it even has the same animation and the warbreaker sound

[sly crane]

give leap 2 charges

[sage ridge]

Play ret just makes me sad I like warrior

It makes it feel like Warrior has no qol

[full valve]

fix the god damn "Invalid path" thing

[fickle cedar]

so we can leap out of the dng ?

[molten night]

for the dude that wanted to know

if they locking it

behind bosses

[sly crane]

how about the circle going out of the map or on the roof

[sly crane]

leap right to the bench

[rich veldt]

they rather fix 2nd boss workshop

after 3 iterations

so yea

[dense elbow]

This is fair

[fickle cedar]

you dont like using your cds for 8 seconds ?

[sly crane]

[burnt kelp]

above being fair it's also lucrative

mythic gallywix boosts are going to give so many wow tokens to blizzard

💸

[molten night]

yeah i agree, i want to work for my gear not get a instant pass... wouldn't feel right.

[warm crag]

stop being reasonable !!!!

[molten night]

NEVER!

[burnt kelp]

the instant pass is still there

it costs 20M gold

(as of latest date)

[molten night]

LOL 20m

yeah

true

ok

[sly crane]

chump change

[warm crag]

is buying a boost even enough

[hardy bluff]

it will get way cheaper by the time you need it

[remote bobcat]

myth gally i assume will be 1m - 4m by the release of dinars

[warm crag]

you can pick 2 items but you want jastor + cards at a minimum

what about the other ~2-4 items you need lol

[modest condor]

you can only buy 10 tokens per week, to get the 20m required for mythic gallywix you would have to buy tokens for 10 weeks in a row by which point the season is over anyway

[molten night]

no gear pass, CE, 50m xD

just for dinars

[young swan]

think u want slots more than cards

[formal glacier]

At this point they should let m+ players buy mythic track from m+ dj complete at a ''x'' level.

[warm crag]

i mean sure bis + jastor

[formal glacier]

So we can stand to m+ and have a turbo for gear too

[warm crag]

what abt cards etc

[dense elbow]

Sure... tokens, limit, yes. That is a big issue, ehm, getting my token gold

[sinful spoke]

cards isnt super rare

[burnt kelp]

hahahaha

[warm crag]

other classes want 2 raid trinkets + special weapons + jastor

[burnt kelp]

ofc, buying gold the legal way...

[remote bobcat]

i saw it drop once all time

[sinful spoke]

i have 3

[remote bobcat]

(and i got it)

yoinked

[warm crag]

not maxed

[remote bobcat]

i got it

20mins ago

[burnt kelp]

not maxed

[modest condor]

they're doing this so people buy more tokens
you cant even buy enough tokens in time to do that
sure buying gold the legal way

kinda goes against the initial argument

[remote bobcat]

I GOT IT 20 MINS AGO

relax people

[burnt kelp]

I meant for myself

I'm sure a lot of people buy tokens

... not that I buy gold, ofc

[modest condor]

ofc

[flat river]

LETS GOOO

[dense elbow]

Lets go?

[flat river]

I GOT ANOTHER MYTHIC BUTTON FROM TORQ

[dense elbow]

Ah, that kind of go

[warm crag]

deserved for gala57

[dense elbow]

yay?

[flat river]

i have 6 buttons

1 raid finder

[warm crag]

big red buttons

[flat river]

2 champion

1 hero

2 mythic

[dense elbow]

Gz or I am sorry, whatever applies

[burnt kelp]

he is going to do bad things with all those buttons at some point

[warm crag]

none of your str users need it for crests?

[rich veldt]

i miss shadowlands

[flat river]

nop

[burnt kelp]

do you at least have the big red button from motherlode mythic track

you better

[full valve]

[sinful spoke]

@edgy widget ban this guy

[flat river]

didnt get from vault yet

[unreal onyx]

ya'll ever had that happen in top 1st boss?

[warm crag]

sengender tod

[modest condor]

verschlingender riss

[edgy widget]

Nope, I play in english

[warm crag]

grüner daumen and nachwachsen from mvp healer voof

[modest condor]

try not being stacked

[sly crane]

shadowlands somehow was less buggy than this expac

[edgy widget]

eh

[rich veldt]

uhhh

[iron portal]

Clearly you havent been there at launch

[edgy widget]

every expac has bugs, every game has bugs

people just tend to forget about them after awhile

[sly crane]

played launch to like mid season 1

[iron portal]

just Stone legion alone had enough bugs to overshadow some expacs lol

[edgy widget]

the measurement of success isn't how bug free something is
it's just how fast & effective they are at fixing them

and to their credit, Blizz did a pretty good job with quickly addressing bugs that popped up this patch

[rich veldt]

shadowlands classic

we'll be there

[unreal onyx]

but they literally weren't

i saw them being spread

[edgy widget]

should they have happened in the first place? Ofc not
but launching more bugs that get fixed quick is a whole lot more preferred than having less bugs that never get fixed

[fickle cedar]

at the same time im quite disappointed from the lack of QA (i suppose they still have problems after firing so much people) considering the money we pay

[rich veldt]

they do their best!!

[full valve]

[rich veldt]

Cmon wasn’t that bad

[full valve]

My thoughts on this xpac is that the main appeal system (hero talents) are hella undercooked for some class/specs and it makes them feel like u are just playing dragonflight for another year

[dense elbow]

Totally reworked. Systems adjusted, timesinks removed, lore adjusted and overall polished? Sure it could be a fun time if for the M+ and Castle Natheria alone.

Shadowlands as it was?

Hell no.

[hardy cypress]

Do adds in raids have different mitigations than the boss? For example, would it be more dps to focus an add right next to the boss? Like using the add to get extra juicy BT hits. Or just stay on boss and cleave add?

[rich veldt]

Best we can do is a 10 renown track open world activity

[iron portal]

unless specified, no

[full valve]

lore they cant change lol but if they let u do warband ish stuff and balance the covenants so is choice over meta, u got a deal

[fickle cedar]

the war on timegating

[iron portal]

We never win

[full valve]

we`ve been using the same talents since DF tho

[iron portal]

What does that have to do with timegating

[full valve]

that the talent changes werent timegated

[iron portal]

🤦‍♂️

[full valve]

and they implemented the timegated stuff from previous xpacs like covenant abilities and azeroth heart talents into it

and legion

we still also using cyrce circlet and soon corruptions so... little dub

[mellow bloom]

warcraft reforged 50%off #ad

[fickle cedar]

too late now, we're back in cyrodiil

[hollow glen]

How many dinars to enchant my helm with unable to parry my attacks

[whole yacht]

75

[tame yarrow]

Can I jump out of Mugzhee Prison as warrior? 😮

[modest condor]

<@&257983573498265600>

quick redeem it before it gets deleted

[warm crag]

grabbed it

[red berry]

holy fuck 50$

[whole yacht]

I don't think so. No

[warm crag]

you can leap as they get placed but its very finnicky

can hit it like 50/50 if i try

[versed harness]

Not sure if i'm just now noticing it, but since the patch I've seen that the WW stacks don't change on rampage until after the animation is completed. Has it always been like this? I thought i just changed right after you hit rampage but seems like its not chaning stack count until its completed

[warm crag]

or you velf out/get rescued or pulled out

[edgy widget]

got it

time to pre-order doom

[fickle cedar]

yeah my brain gets stunlocked from that shit sometimes

[summer quail]

buy clair obscur instead. playing it rn

[versed harness]

It's literally throwing me off like I feel like I have input lag or something. Like I hit rampage and raging blow and stacks go from 4 to 2 because of the animation

[fickle cedar]

ill play it soon, how is it, sounds pretty peak to me

[edgy widget]

it looks ok, but I got enough shit on my plate atm

[summer quail]

it's great, only a few hours in but i think they really innovated on turn based combat

like really really innovated

[fickle cedar]

are you using any WA pack, curious ?

[fickle cedar]

yeah it feels more reactive i like that

[versed harness]

Yah I am but i turned everything off and just watched the base UI buff and still does the same thing.

[whole yacht]

What game?

[summer quail]

clair obscur expedition 33

[kind wind]

It reminds me a lot of Lost Odyssey with the QTEs during fights

[whole yacht]

I se

See*

[earnest canyon]

This game seems amazing from such a small team and it's on gamepass

[summer quail]

yeye

[serene kraken]

Does anyone know why revvez is playing mugzee trinket and ML trinket

[young swan]

probably a rat warrior mirror

[remote bobcat]

one can only play what one owns

[serene kraken]

hes playing it on every character

nvm i lied

[flat river]

guys as mountain thane

do u use BT in 3+ targets

or still focus bloodcraze stacks

[hardy cargo]

normal conditions up to 6

[flat river]

what about on stix

[warm crag]

you can press it at 2+ targets and its only a very minor loss up until 5 targets

simplifies the rotation a lot

[flat river]

so

swap to BT at 5+ targets

otherwise focus RB

[remote bobcat]

up to 5 tar is always RB > BT in general priority

but we're fury, its always marginal

if u get lucky with tblast procs you might cheat out extra aoe on fast-dying hyenas

so always take it with a grain of salt

[storm birch]

Yes Ive noticed this too

[flat river]

aight so i was doing it correctly

[versed harness]

Ok glad I'm not the only person then. I guess i'll just have to get used to it

[remote bobcat]

ye same

[edgy widget]

it's a change this patch, just weird way rampage works

[upper sonnet]

mates what u think about trinket of the radiant faction ?

[whole star]

does anyone who has Mister Lock n Stalk know if precision or mass destruction is better for aoe? i can't seem to sim the second setting

[young swan]

if you want to do aoe damage use a different trinket

the sim will automatically swap between st and aoe depending on the target count u sim with tho

[gilded pawn]

its just that bad

[barren dagger]

damn i cant get mythic BIS with dinars if i didn't kill one armed bandit?

[young swan]

i mean its a really good st trinket

and all of the damage you'll be dealing will be into your target which is really good

[gilded pawn]

i mean in the context of aoe

the aoe is just really undertuned

[whole star]

yeah i can't seem to get a better aoe one :/

what are you guys using for aoe trinkets? mechano?

[young swan]

i use signet of the priory and pacemaker

[quiet breach]

i use pacemaker and house of cards

use house of cards and mister locknstalk for raid

[whole star]

i have signet as well but get annoyed at it never lining up with cds

especially with best in slots

[past pivot]

Pacemaker and Signet macroed with BIS.

[sour frigate]

bis shares cd with trinkets iirc

[whole star]

yeah it puts trinkets on a 20 sec cd

[sour frigate]

have u tried lining it with reck?

[whole star]

tbh no, but maybe it would line up around the third use or so?

[flat river]

how do i disable lua error popup

it wont go away

[sour frigate]

ye happened to me just now too

update addons again i guess

[sour frigate]

just macro it both to avatar and rav/reck