fury

[stoic star]

obvi sim but just stun locked a bit

[quiet breach]

im using raidbots for the first time trying to sim my gear

how do i change the spec? its stuck on mountain thane

im using quicksim

i wanna copy the spec im gonna be using on most fights

[fickle cedar]

if you wanna select a spec you go to top gear, otherwise you have to /simc with the spec equipped or change the string manually

[silk wharf]

@alpine steppe yes. @quiet breach if you select edit on a talent tree you can make a new one. Though I would suggest changing your actual spec to get rid of results you don't want to see. Especially so if you are limited on sim count.

Oh, on quicksim. You would need to either change your actual characters spec in game or change the simc input manually. Top gear is your bet for changing talent specs though.

[quiet breach]

i changed the spec in game then tried again and it didnt work, i guess i just have to wait a bit for it to update. thank u

[silk wharf]

If you arent using the simc addon to pull the info directly you will at minimum need to log your character out for armory to see any changes.

(there might also be a slight delay depending on how it does it's updates)

[fickle cedar]

yeah you should definitely get the simulation craft addon, then just /simc, it's quite a light addon so don't worry about it

[quiet breach]

im looking it up in curseforge i dont see it

ohhh wait

gotta not put a space

lol

[edgy widget]

tbf I usually click in that situation

it's not a common enough situation and there's enough lead time in which nothing is happening that I don't feel the need for an actual keybind for it

but that aside, yeah having secondary keybinds for your combination macros isn't really a bad thing

[edgy widget]

the real benefit of importing from the addon is that it will pick up gear in vault, bags, and currency info, so you don't have to do that manually @quiet breach

[fading sky]

Its a fine neck bis list is only bis the second u got everything including race

[kind mantle]

I took heroic mechano core because it simmed higher than mythic Cinder neck from vault, am I fucked bc of the tuning?

[fading sky]

No?

Mechano core is still insane

[kind mantle]

Ight the page wasn't loading for me so I just saw trinket tuning

[undone flower]

I just woke up, did my prayer for fire mage downfall worked ?

I take the 3% as a slightly meh yes

[errant vessel]

Just get a hpal to use blessing of autumn (I think it is) on you

Stonks

[compact siren]

You are going to make me cry

[sullen dove]

Just insta send every ball into boss

[slim coral]

you enjoying rik prog

[sullen dove]

you could call it that

prolly shoulda died this week but wcyd

the rng of add spawns is pretty cringe tho

like had a few pulls where it was 3 sometimes 4 right next to boss and then later you get like 3 solos out in timbuktu

[slim coral]

yeah having to swap to the solo one out in narnia is also cringe

losing all my stacks

[sullen dove]

as far as I know they don’t bait on people

But idk think just lotta dam not enough defensive n stuff goin out when soak time

Had a real nice pull feelin good getting close to 2nd intermission with everyone up then 4 ppl die in 5 seconds and mood instantly tanks

[slim coral]

honestly the fights have been kinda fun

[slim coral]

👩‍🍳

[sullen dove]

Whatchu mean by dat

[slim coral]

You're cooking

[sullen dove]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-worm-cat-worm-catworm-ai-generated-gif-11758626355945811640

[slim coral]

We will have gushing wound soon

[sullen dove]

We already do

[slim coral]

in 1 months time

No

The corruption gushin wound

[sullen dove]

explode

Twilight dev or bust

[slim coral]

All corruptions are coming back out

so pretty hyped

[sullen dove]

Just as weapon enchants

[slim coral]

no

[sullen dove]

Doubt they’ll be anywhere near as broken

[slim coral]

They changed it

[sullen dove]

oh nawl

surely no rotating vendor that takes 3 months for a cycle

[slim coral]

Yeah people complained they were too weak or soemthing

so they said they are gonna change it

and maybe put them as embellishments or another gear slot

[sullen dove]

embell maybe cool

cuz current embells are ass

dont even scale with ilvl

how are the thread embells gonna give 750 stat on a 675 when bsl gave like 1.1k mast on a 525

oh boy 2% verse

slurp that slop up

[slim coral]

idk

I wish embellishments were super powerful tho

would make crafting way more enjoyable

why even have something craftable if its gonna be weak asf

[sullen dove]

think bsl just too good for its time

let me put that shit on this gear

[tender pulsar]

@edgy widget

I think a word is missing here and it results in saying the opposite of what you mean to say

[viral gulch]

Oh, class tuning incoming, we're ignored :< We're going to the last place on m+, yeeey...

[red berry]

we don't really need it anyway

[lapis eagle]

can't they make meat cleaver 1 more target at least...

[viral gulch]

Yeah, current 22nd place according to archon is a good place

We for sure don't need any buffs

[red berry]

Heh :)

[placid violet]

just play prot in m+ and do same damage

more survival as well

[viral gulch]

"just play X" is not a good advice

[placid violet]

isnt that the warrior discord motto?

"play what you enjoy"

[viral gulch]

Yeah unless you notice that your class suck badly 😐

[mint pond]

these are my stats and i try to spam thunder blast and keep the whirlwind(TC) buff up but i still can't seem to get more than 5mil DPS on big packs. Any help?

[viral gulch]

I'm wondering how it happened, fury don't have someone who cares anymore?

[icy topaz]

The 1 dev that played fury now plays dh

[summer crater]

Sounds about right

[lapis eagle]

my boi crafted bracers without mythic track weap like me 🤪

[eternal sundial]

You dont wanna insta use all your tbs

You do wanna get all 4 ww charges out

[mint pond]

so it's better at ST or just not as good as say arms?

[eternal sundial]

And it's mega important you play the rotation right and use CDs on cd ans enraged

[summer crater]

It's better at ST and prio than arms but much worse at large pack aoe

[turbid bay]

you cant use all 4 ww stacks during ravager tho or you will overcap

just use 3

rage

[summer crater]

And this season is full of huge pack aoe

[eternal sundial]

Rage is fake-ish, tb stacks overcapped you do wanna avoid tho

But prio has rage as a factor for ramp so just play accordingly idk man

[viral gulch]

5 target cap is happening

[summer crater]

And it's going to be worse and worse as people gear up further as they'll scale on more mobs than fury

[viral gulch]

Yes 😐

Target cap nerf was an obliteration of fury

[turbid bay]

you will still do respectable amounts of damage 4mil overall if your playing well

[viral gulch]

Too bad i invested 2 weeks of playing

[turbid bay]

and you will speed up single target bosses

which the classes currently lack

[summer crater]

First boss in TOP feels good as fury

[turbid bay]

fury is great in top in general

[summer crater]

Especially when you pull the mob with it

[turbid bay]

i prefer over arms

fury feels good cause you will almost always be running cds on a pack its just the mob density is just too much for our target cap for most dungeons.

[eternal sundial]

Fury is completely playable

[wicked gazelle]

Yeah i main warrior but i will only do weeklys now

[eternal sundial]

Overall isnt all that matters

[wicked gazelle]

other specs are so much more enjoyable

[eternal sundial]

Real havoc goes mega hard

[wicked gazelle]

i mean it is to an extent in some dungeons you have specs that can do a third more dps on averge the key gets done quicker

[turbid bay]

yeah i mean single target dmg always speeds stuff up

[wicked gazelle]

yes overall isnt all that matters but anything else you are doing to bring value to a key other classes do far better than warrior

[turbid bay]

with fire mage being popular again they are usually taking prio spot

[wicked gazelle]

I mean big nerfs coming

ive been gearing unholy dk

its silly the numbers it can do

[turbid bay]

heard unholy is alright atm

single target lacks a bit i heard?

[wicked gazelle]

i did 4.7m overall in a 10 floodgate yesterday at 651 ilvl

[turbid bay]

not sure i havent seen many

[eternal sundial]

Fire SP X inc

Surely

[wicked gazelle]

i recon unholy/ele/druid

[eternal sundial]

Ion believe in ele

[wicked gazelle]

eles aoe anyways was nuts

[iron portal]

Im suprised that dps warris were not touched at all in tuning

[turbid bay]

arms doesnt need touching

[wicked gazelle]

and like every tier the dungeon pool, mobs and bosses are melee unfriendly so enhance is a bit annoying to play

[turbid bay]

mayb fury a bit but its manageable

[wicked gazelle]

the ST buff to ele i think puts it in the convo for meta

[iron portal]

It def does

[eternal sundial]

bro that 2nd boss rookery

mental boom

[iron portal]

They already delete aoe and now they wont fall behind in ST as much

[wicked gazelle]

and i think you will need specs around the unholy to make up the ST and ele will do that

boomie had some ST buffs tho very small and you can run like disc priest with pi on the dk

that way you get vers/mast/stam buff and take a dh tank for the magic damage buff

does the magic buff effect unholy (shadow) damage?

[low folio]

Any of the trinket buffs matter to warrior?

[eternal sundial]

lockensprock thing kinda does

[fair thistle]

Viscera of Coalesced Hatred maybe ?

seemed okay and took a 20% buff

for single target it may be something great, wanna test it

[warped bone]

❤️

[tribal nebula]

Oh really? just sold a hc version of it :S
Was this in a bluepost?

[warm crag]

just hotfixed in i dont think theres any official communication abt it

[tribal nebula]

Ah cheers

[remote bobcat]

you can always restore items

but its probably better to just hold all trinkets

cause balancing

[thick fossil]

What they need to do is actually buff our AoE abilities so they're at least competitive in AoE.
Odyn's Fury was taken out back of the shed and shot.
Bladestorm is still laughable and requires unhinged. At least Ravager allows you to hit buttons so it's ok.

[remote bobcat]

bladestorm where all unhinged procs get a reap proc is still like no uncapped aoe

and thats the dream for fury

slayer fury, that is

[warm crag]

only have to hit the 0.2^5 chance oly moly

or however often you bt in bs

[clever belfry]

thats only

0.032%

not too bad imo

[lucid thorn]

so with the buff to noggenfogger trink, is it actually.good for us to have now

[stiff barn]

Seems to be pretty good for ret st, might be decent enough for us

[remote bobcat]

ew

[stiff barn]

But probably still falls short compared to other trinkets , not sure

[remote bobcat]

dont mentiuon that disgusting ranged spec

tf man

[stiff barn]

My bad

[remote bobcat]

Angry_cat

[tribal nebula]

👍

[warm crag]

simming better than hc cards kezan for me shrug

sim thine character

[next ruin]

Can someone explains to me why aoe stalknlock is better if it's split damage? Is it because it has a higher proc rate since it can proc from every target?

[iron portal]

Nah lets buff ele

[thick fossil]

Seems on brand for Blizzard. Uh huh, uh huh.

https://tenor.com/view/yep-derp-what-puppet-yip-gif-11384849

[stiff barn]

Is the thing running properly? I heard that there might be a bug with one of the adds spawning.

Otherwise I might have to restore my HC trinket

[south kayak]

Today was a terrible day

Been trying to fall sleep for over 5 hours

Until I finally did

[warm crag]

idk not seen logs of it

i know that one of the two guys that can spawn dont properly track on details but they still hit the opponents

[south kayak]

I am so tired

[warm crag]

if it hits as hard as sims say it does, and i dont have a reason to believe it doesnt, its maybe okay for sprocketmonger prog

[south kayak]

And I haven’t even slept well

[south kayak]

Apparently new bug

[warm crag]

thats bad info

it still does the damage it just doesnt display on details

[south kayak]

I’ll ask if that was taken into account

Brb

[restive pewter]

any WA geniuses alive rn, have atrocity ui was for most everything, but wanna swap out the bloodthirst tracker for the tracker archi made

and have it like fit into place with the rest of the wa

maybe this is a question for atrocity discord tho

[warm crag]

atrocity has a help channel no

[restive pewter]

yeaaaa maybe im dumbass

[warm crag]

its not a hard fix to figure out yourself tho

[oblique trail]

Place it into the same group of WAs as the rest of his fury WAs, then change the offset and dimensions to the what the rest of the WAs are

[warm crag]

just gotta add a health % glow and tier set crit tracking if you care about that or do what banezi is suggesting

[oblique trail]

If you want it somewhere specific in the WA ordering, you just move it up or down in the listing

[restive pewter]

bet let me try

ok got it

good looks

[tight roost]

Is there any update on bis trinket status since trinket changes?

[warm crag]

P sure kezan and cards are still bis but i doubt you have access to those at mythic ilvl

[gleaming siren]

Bottom line, the bad trinkets are now worth using sometimes

Especially at higher ilvls

[torpid elbow]

well boys and gals we got lucky we didnt receive no buffs or nerfs

really warrior is in a good spot rn

[earnest canyon]

I think fury does need buffs....I parked my hunter for a while, but with 4set, im kinda surprised it wasnt nerfed

[stark ginkgo]

just hit 5 targets better

[eager thorn]

Fury feels fine

Only thing we really lack on is big pulls in m+

[torpid elbow]

oh yes i have noticed that

[earnest canyon]

its only doing 55% damage vs hunter 80% damage

but fury just feels amazing to play

[torpid elbow]

i think the problem is we need to hit more additional enemies then just 4-5

especially with big packs

i do 5mill on pulls still..

[earnest canyon]

ive hit 12mil......just not on warrior

[frank dawn]

xd

[torpid elbow]

what class?

shamans?

[earnest canyon]

I dont want to say incase I nerf them.....it was holy priest

[torpid elbow]

holy cow

[remote bobcat]

muddy are u boosting atm?

[winter fossil]

Then you are doing something wrong or your stats are not good

[eager thorn]

No

[torpid elbow]

its my gear still gearing up its still week 3

[eager thorn]

Busy irl don’t have time for it rn

[remote bobcat]

fair fair

cant wait to compete with u again

[winter fossil]

Yes might be, I have average gear but I can open till 10m on big pulls

[eager thorn]

:^)

[winter fossil]

But trinkets also might differ

[remote bobcat]

damn bro just called all of us a nerd unintentionally

[torpid elbow]

what trinkets you got lol?

[winter fossil]

Pacemaker and Funhouse
Not really great for fury but better than other options

[remote bobcat]

pace + funhouse is good in m+

[torpid elbow]

i gotta hero pace and champ fun

[remote bobcat]

not even gonna lie

[winter fossil]

But I have best in slot
Which is a trinket as well

[winter fossil]

Same

[eager thorn]

I have funhouse and ara kara :)

[torpid elbow]

okay then i must be doing something wrong with my rotation

[shell jackal]

yo

[waxen vale]

yo

[shell jackal]

what's the best type of comp to run as a fury if you're trying to pump in keys?

[remote bobcat]

hop on the mechano core train

🔥

[eager thorn]

Must be nice

[torpid elbow]

how is mech?

[remote bobcat]

its dumb strong

like stupid strong

its the best fury item in the game

per ilvl

if it had myth track

it would be >>>>>>>>>>>> kezan

[eager thorn]

The only hero trinket i got from maps is the amphousnrelic

[remote bobcat]

i took it in vault

[shell jackal]

i know the lens is okay

[eager thorn]

Which sacbrood beat in sims xd

[torpid elbow]

i cant get tht fkn trinket

[shell jackal]

its not great but its okay, not good compared to mechano tho

[torpid elbow]

hopefully vault week

[eager thorn]

Yea i think i will if i see it

[remote bobcat]

i had heroic kezan

and this

in vault

[shell jackal]

"had"

[remote bobcat]

among 4 myth pieces

and uh

[torpid elbow]

lucky

[remote bobcat]

yea mechano core >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

no weapon tho

lemme find the pic

[shell jackal]

its that insanely good?

[eager thorn]

I got myth neck this week so I’m happy

[torpid elbow]

i got my 675 weap crafted btw @remote bobcat

[shell jackal]

i got it in my first bountiful delve of the season and had no clue it was that good

[remote bobcat]

this was my vault

[shell jackal]

it took me 35 runs to get that fucking belt on hero track

fuck that piece of shit belt. respectfully.

[eager thorn]

Juiced

[remote bobcat]

mechano 665 outsimmed everything else by like 10k dps

or more

[torpid elbow]

phew hopefully mech dont get a nerf

[shell jackal]

its already had one

im p sure

[remote bobcat]

^

yea

already nerfed

still broken

kekW

[torpid elbow]

omg and its still bad ass

HAHA

[remote bobcat]

they nerfed it so people would not skip heroic gally trinket

fr fr

[shell jackal]

dodged

[torpid elbow]

those trinkets that got a a 20%buff are any of them good now?

[summer quail]

Yes. 3 of them are good now. Noggenfogger, viscera and mrlock

[torpid elbow]

nice all the firemages are going crazy now

they got a 3% nerf

[summer quail]

Lmao going crazy over a lovetap

[torpid elbow]

arcane got buffed by 8% O-O

[summer quail]

Still gonna be trash

[frosty ibex]

why elem still get buff

[supple lotus]

Bis trinkets are still eye, house of cards, mechano right?

[restive peak]

Boomie ele fmage comp bout to run the show

[remote bobcat]

what key this? +12 top?

[runic cypress]

No only 10

I dont get invites to anything higher

Rookery

[remote bobcat]

rook? solid

ur casters must have sucked

lmao

[earnest canyon]

You are asking for class nerfs, delete that

[spare steppe]

Feels like a squishy group though

[remote bobcat]

how so? fire mage is the most defensive spec in the game and boomkin provides hella versatility

sure you can argue ele sham, but eh

shrug

[summer quail]

i would argue boomy being more squishy than ele

[remote bobcat]

in the same group, yes

because boomkin gives versa to ele

[vapid mulch]

someone look at this i beg, i cant figure out

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ijsxZaW2a4kPmFj5CbHQBR

[remote bobcat]

what cant you figure out

[vapid mulch]

how is this haste mast ring not an upgrade

and sim is telling me to run crit gems

it cant be

[remote bobcat]

cause u run sureki neck

i'd imagine

haste has diminishing returns

[vapid mulch]

ooooh so my haste is just spiked

[oblique trail]

You have haste on every single piece of gear almost

[vapid mulch]

that actually would make insane sense, i forgot about surekis

[remote bobcat]

yerr

[vapid mulch]

i replace surekis lets see if that fixes

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/573Avg7CV6KG8X7CrBXap5

tells me still run surekis

[remote bobcat]

btw why do you keep your rings at 655? the upgrade to 658 is free if you do the cyrce's trick

[vapid mulch]

i only upgraded my arms ring and forgot to do these

i hgavent played fury this week

[remote bobcat]

I mean yea you're comparing sureki's to crit versa

idk

I'd recommend running a quick droptimizer

at 658

that should help you out

[spare steppe]

boomy/ele dont have very strong defensives. Mage definitely has the to survive

damage would he nutty though

[remote bobcat]

yea but you likely run a disc priest so you have stam buff and versa buff while also absolutely obliterating packs

surviving is rarely an issue in a good group

avoiding oneshots is the only important thing

kinda

[spare steppe]

Kicks would be an issue without a prot pally

[torpid elbow]

question the 2 red marks that come around your character do i BT or RP?

[spare steppe]

Poor priests

[fading sky]

Or dh

[remote bobcat]

the what

2 red marks ?

[torpid elbow]

the 2 side red things that pop up i was wondering do i rampage as soon as it shows

they look like 2 c's around your character but there red

[remote bobcat]

people still play with those animations?

they distract so much

i have no idea

htats some proc some buff

check which one

idk

[fading sky]

Rb ramp until kachin then bt

Or 3 marks

[hardy bluff]

crazy that boomkin propaganda works...

[spare steppe]

Boomkin propaganda?

[fading sky]

They are bad in st? So buff in st seems fair?

Could use an aoe nerf by a small margin

[spare steppe]

tbf their st was pretty bad

as was ele. Just didnt expect ST buffs without aoe nerfs

[fading sky]

Same

Esp ele

[spare steppe]

warrior still more fun to play in keys ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[supple lotus]

Whats a good dps alt for fury mains this tier?

[somber elk]

RET is fun

And Blizz loves rets

[restive peak]

Can swap ele for uhdk as well tbh

[pulsar prawn]

trinket tuning

[undone flower]

more delves

[pulsar prawn]

these are from my bags ^^
but yeah i dont will use a 2min on use with cursor aim esp. while i use Best-in-Slots, for 4k dmg gain ^^

[oblique trail]

You can just make a [@player] macro for it

[edgy widget]

Not sure I trust noggenfogger, Npc summons don’t always perform well

[pulsar prawn]

ye i heared it can also die ?

[eternal sundial]

simply cheat use it prepull and swap

your log will definitely not be removed

[oblique trail]

It seems to be hasted as well, in some way, unless it's just wild strikes proccing that makes it swing faster

Which would be sort of in line with the Outlaw shenanigans

[clever belfry]

@oblique trail

[radiant plank]

i think its aa hasted or smth

[radiant plank]

its sims mid for arms

but gooder for fury

[sudden tusk]

Yeah I'm not about to rng another delve trinket no thanks

[clever belfry]

attack fast free haste powerful lore

[oblique trail]

It's also just insanely inconsistent whether it wants to show up in details or not

One test I had both the skeleton and ogre show up in my details, but now in my Fury test neither show up

[heavy flax]

pretty sure it just means you have enough rage to rampage, but idk i don't really pay attention

[sly crane]

yes

[tender seal]

665

[radiant plank]

20s combat time or what

[tender seal]

It's just 1 use

[coarse nest]

[tender seal]

on dummy

but 15mil dam of 1 use is 15 mil dam

gonna mess aroudn with it in normal to see how it does

[oblique trail]

Testing this trinket is too much effort w/e

Just gonna stick with HoC and not care 👍

[tender seal]

It's my alt - i still have limited options 😄 but its fun

[wind haven]

Should I keybind Slam? I feel like it rarely happens that I run out of GDDs completely but was wondering if it's askill issue of managing my rotation or if it's actually worth it keybinding it for those rare moments

[radiant plank]

yes

[wind haven]

thx

[rocky wharf]

i like to press nothing than slam. ew

[quaint stag]

Time to item restore the noggenfogger I got from my first bountiful delve

[rocky wharf]

whats the deal with that noggerfogger?

[eternal sundial]

Got buffed

It's decent now

[rocky wharf]

nice, just read the updates channel. thx

[runic cypress]

Bros are we getting nerfed soon?

[chrome summit]

2.7 isnt so high compared to some Ive seen tbh

Had a dh doing 4kk

Dude was on steroid or smt

[sand crest]

dev evoker hitting 4.9m overall in cinderbrew

dont think we're the ones getting nerfed

[chrome summit]

Yeah seen some pesky evokers doing alot also

And pala also

[sullen dove]

dev doing a lot is based

About damn time

Fuck aug

[sand crest]

flameshaper devoker bursting so hard on big packs

its actually insane

[wind haven]

Why do people hate aug? I'm new to the game and haven't even met any :kekw

oh no custom emotes here oop

[sullen dove]

[coarse nest]

die aug die!

[sullen dove]

it was just kinda always “the meta” in m+ since it’s been added

Like boring cop out there is 1 less dps spot available to make groups

And because aug does dmg based off the other dps in the group it’s a much higher expectation that the other two dps have to be way more meta

[wind haven]

ahhh icic, makes sense that dps players would hate it then yeah

[sullen dove]

Rather than 2 meta dps and then can kinda get whatever other dps is “decent”

[summer quail]

several reasons. very hard to discern how well you are doing, you think you're doing good but actually you got buffed you were actually just doing ok. it being a support spec means it can never truly be balanced as it will either be weak or strong, no inbetween. it being a support spec means it will be very top heavy, meaning it needs to be balanced around the meta and it will also be stronger the better the other players are. so it will be insane for the best guilds and shit for others

there's more, but that's off the top of my head

[clever belfry]

das a lot of text buddy

[dense elbow]

As 2.7 is dog water tier, and decent DPS do 3.5-4.5
I hope not

[celest sierra]

bruh pugging keys as a fury warrior is a nightmare

[dense elbow]

Why?

[celest sierra]

no one wants fury warriors lol

unless ur already 3k+ io

[dense elbow]

Cause ppl think your overall DPS is the value you bring, and we got no AoE burst to wow them with
Ye, you prob should just tank your way to 3k+

[celest sierra]

i cant tank for shit lmao

[dense elbow]

Keep shieldblock up 100% of the time, pull stuff as fast and much as possible. Revenge spam and throw CDs on CD

Godspeed o7

[wind haven]

I find the skill stuff odd since I come from FF14 where in parses you see rDPS which shows how well you have done personally instead of normal DPS which is inflated by party buffs

Is that not a thing in WoW?

[oblique trail]

It's not no

Wow doesn't operate on rDPS, aDPS etc

The closest you get is aug evoker where you can see a guestimate of how much they attributed to your damage

[astral musk]

It's kinda a thing for augs, like it'll calc the expected dps value that they brought. But otherwise buffs in wow are much less... straightforward and easily tracked unlike FFXIV

[oblique trail]

But stuff like PI isn't calculated for, because it's a lot more complicated than just do X% more damage

[dense elbow]

Problem is buffing one spec in a timeframe could be worth 500k for one spec and player. Then 5 million for another spec and player in that timeframe.
The stronger the outlier spec is, the stronger the aug

[warm crag]

this doesnt really work though

approximation at best

blizz doesnt give the proper tools to figure it out properly

[astral musk]

Yeah it kinda blows lmao

[warm crag]

and as soon as an absorb shield is involved its completely fucked anyways

[wind haven]

Makes sense yeah, ff14 is much simpler compared to how creative wow skills are

[dense elbow]

DPS is probably linked to bagspace, so can't blame them for not figuring it out

[sullen dove]

Surely it couldn’t just be treated as extra hp the boss has and is damaged the same as regular damage

[warm crag]

surely

[sullen dove]

there’s only like a few abilities that specially interact with absorbs and do more dmg or something but would think aug buffs by the same numbahs as regular buttons

[clever belfry]

go look at fyrakk logs my king

[meager void]

hiya, anyone got a working link for the spellreflect spreadsheet? ty

[clever belfry]

i do think absorbs were fixed with TWW tho

[dusty kiln]

Has raidbots been updated with trinket tweaks?

[oblique trail]

Yes

Just use Latest

[clever belfry]

if you select latest yes

[dusty kiln]

Much obliged.

[past pivot]

https://discord.com/channels/148872210742771712/1234949058121171069 like 4th post up

[meager void]

spreasheet, not weakaura.

[oblique trail]

It's in #dps-faq

[oblique trail]

It works for me

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vQQCkBEkOadsvO4sTphB1RwzC6Z_3kq00IFaBrCk5Eagz2Jeoox7D7Rk3XwXMINbh4lUg9Vr-3RgoB2/pubhtml#

Try this

[meager void]

tyvm!

yeah tinyurl is down for me but the direct link works ty

[sly crane]

you hate to see it

[astral musk]

The tank saw a penny on the floor and had to go pick it up, you understand right?

lol I kid of course, you hate to see that indeed.

[dense elbow]

Virus

He stole your WoW account

[frozen cave]

Is fury easier to play than arms in raid?

[flat river]

Spell reflect should reflect all spells for its duration

[tight roost]

That seems op

[tight roost]

Not a veteran fury player but switching over i feel like the fury rotation has a better flow and generally more fun to play

I cant sat if its easier, my feeling is even though rotation uses relatively few abilities theres a fair bit of nuance to getting really good dps from the rotation

[dense elbow]

it wasnt, it just broke some mechanics and was exploitable.
Not to mention in PvP ppl felt in was unfair that warrior had basically a "spell immunity" period.

They prefer that their passives proc our SR, so they can cast on us for free

[oblique trail]

If you want to play either spec optimally, there's a lot more conditionals to mess up as Fury, than there is as Arms

[sand crest]

god damn underpin felt so much harder than zekvir

glad im done with it

[winter shoal]

Hi, in the time since you were complaining about this yesterday, I got into 3 +11 pugs without waiting more than 10 mins for any of them, at 2650 io 🙂

[chilly fractal]

Remember when we almost had a full group spell reflect legendary in SL?

[quiet breach]

so like, is aug evoker not a healer or a dps?
is it some weird new type of role

[wise canyon]

Its a “dps”

[vague fern]

in Crits gallywix video, he mentions to not use Blade storm past the 1min 10sec mark. he shows that he has a clock at the bottom of his ui next to dps meters.. how do i get that?

[young swan]

ert/mrt

im sure there are some weakauras out there that do the same thing

[vague fern]

thank you, i found it

[smoky vale]

nah no one wants fury warriors lol

[quiet breach]

btw I figured out why I couldnt get a group going yesterday

I didn't even know how io worked

so apparently u gain the most io by timing a dungeon u have a really low time on

I had only like 1700 io trying to make a group for a +9

so nobody would join

a guildie tank told me this and helped me get into some +8 groups to get my times up on some dungeons now I'm 2050

[junior gale]

People tend to not sign up to 9s regardless.

[dense elbow]

Pro tip: Write 8, instead of 9

[graceful crow]

how manys stacks was that DOT?

[quiet breach]

LOL il bet someone would leave as soon as they see they got finessed tho

[quiet breach]

is it easier to try an +2 an 8 then +1 a 9?

[sly crane]

no clue

[dense elbow]

Then you lost nothing, as your next one is an 8++ either way

[quiet breach]

does D stance make the ball do less damage to the boss on Stix?

[modest condor]

considering it's listed as its own damage source on warcraftlogs im gonna go with no, but dont quote me on that

[worn umbra]

Top dk vs top fury warrior. This is for the dungeon Cinderbrew. Is there anyone here in contact with blizzard who can actually tell them there's something wrong with the spec regarding aoe?

That's a flat 1,2million damage difference

[radiant plank]

spec with mass aoe wins overall in mass aoe dungeon

pls nerf

[restive peak]

Diff damage profiles, huge pull dungeon

[worn umbra]

Floodgate. With his group

i can link for every dungeon but i don't want to spam here

[restive peak]

Diff damage profiles again

[worn umbra]

I'm actually curious if someone is going to resolve it

[restive peak]

That's not how overall works

There's nothing to resolve

[worn umbra]

How so

[restive peak]

Fury does hefty ST in AOE spec and prio damage, and wins 5T or smaller pulls with a very flat profile

Uncapped classes do massive AOE in big pulls, and mediocre ST/5T

Hence S2/S4 DF fire mage being giga BIS and doing dogshit overall

[worn umbra]

So which group actually pulls only 5 targets..

That's not a thing

[restive peak]

You're not getting it

Why was mage the best class for M+ in DF S2+4

[worn umbra]

Prio damage

[junior gale]

its all easy just 8-9 keys are a grey zone where a lot of ppl dont bother doing. at 7 you farm crests and 10s is for vault so ppl rather do those keys than an 8 or 9 which could be harder depending on the skill level of the grp

[oblique trail]

You are probably not gonna like the answer, but Blizzard rarely cares about the M+ ecosystem outside of can X spec reliably do well in a +10

[edgy widget]

Defensive Stance is a global modifier, so it probably does, but it depends on how exactly the ball damage is setup - I wouldn't be surprised if it's not affected by any modifiers whatsoever to avoid weird instances of gaming

that said, there's really no need to be in D Stance when you get the ball, since you also take dramatically reduced damage from pretty much everything

[restive peak]

and what are we best at

[worn umbra]

Prio damage. but there's many other classes doing massive aoe + high prio damage

Comes back to the point. Why fury?

[restive peak]

Actually, there aren't

Why anything but the best 3 ever

[edgy widget]

this is the bigger point

[restive peak]

^

[edgy widget]

if your argument boils down to "why X?" then you also have to ask "why D-W" as well?

[sour frigate]

yet there are a lot of huge pulls in this dungeon rotations

[restive peak]

If you think us not being #1-3 = we're not viable, you're going to be sorely disappointed in every case

And why is Noxiv able to time so many keys so early then?

[worn umbra]

Many dungeons have huge pulls without prio targets in it. What do we do then. Be useless?

[quiet breach]

also like, u can switch spec to arms and do big aoe

[lapis eagle]

truth is some aoe buff would be nice for el furio

[restive peak]

Why was fire able to compete in big pull dungeons in DFs2/4?

[edgy widget]

ultimately, there are only 5 spots in M+, 3 of which for DPS specializations and the nature of any competitive system is that the number of competitors will shrink towards the top end

[restive peak]

Name some dungeons with big pulls and no prio/bosses

If they buff our AOE, we become broken

And our ST needs to be nerfed

Then you'll all cry about raid

[modest condor]

i checked, it doesnt

[edgy widget]

it's even worse in WoW's M+, since it's uncapped system, which means some specs will just straight up plateau once reaching a level where they cannot survive (but that's a different conversation than one of raw DPS)

[worn umbra]

Floodgate. Cinderbrew (Since u chain the big elites to new adds). Priory (Since you chain the big one to more packs)

The prio damage in those dungeons is nice. But the elite usually dies before the packs are even cleared.

So what is the point of the prio there.

[modest condor]

the only reason they die before the packs are cleared is because of prio damage

[restive peak]

Do bosses matter? Do you chain if the prio target doesn't die/isn't about to die?

Do you pull knights together in priory because you're doing big AOE, or would you die instantly if that were the case?

Or does the 1st knight dying enable the continued chain pulling?

[rugged blaze]

fire mage in df 2-4 also was part of the holy trinity with 5% int buff to aug / spriest.

[modest condor]

if you have a boomkin in your group those prio mobs are gonna be at 50% hp when the rest dies

unless you bring something that does prio damage

[restive peak]

If you care about overall, go play an AOE class

Or go arms

[radiant plank]

go arms and do prio, boss and aoe

[junior gale]

[radiant plank]

https://tenor.com/view/armswarrior-warrior-warriorwow-armswow-armswarriorwow-gif-27099127

[edgy widget]

the real answer to your question though is that these two logs are not comparable

• Performance is dictated by the amount of available damage there is to deal and the amount of time spent dealing damage, both of which fluctuate wildly from group to group, due to differences in pull size, pull count, and group composition
• on top of that, you have things like gear differences, externals, and so on which muddle things further (the DK using Cards and getting 4 externals vs the War not having either)
• even RNG can make a big difference when it comes to things like cooldown timing, alignment, etc

This is why broad statistical averages make a much better point of comparison than just the highest individual performer

[junior gale]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/148898720803586048/1068982807847776286/MSbun.gif

[worn umbra]

Pure single target fight.

Just as an example

[junior gale]

damn poor outlaw

[worn umbra]

We bring nothing to the group isn't that a problem?

[restive peak]

So what you're boiling down to is why are we not #1

[worn umbra]

Or are we going to ignore the bigger picture

[restive peak]

So again breaching the question

Why bring anyone but the top 3

[edgy widget]

*broaching the question

[sour frigate]

how so?

[edgy widget]

[restive peak]

Yes Archi I USED THE WRONG WORD

[sour frigate]

utility talk again?

[restive peak]

[edgy widget]

https://tenor.com/view/god-father-kick-door-wwe-entrance-gif-10136675

lincc breaching the question

[worn umbra]

Well sure fury is totally fine for many seasons i suppose.

[junior gale]

colossus shockwave being one of the best aoe stuns in the game owns

[restive peak]

Breached

[worn umbra]

Very good specialization. Brings a lot to the group.

[sour frigate]

U bring 5% ap buff and 25 sec aoe stun

[restive peak]

I mean I get title every season, so do several others

[timber hare]

What was the reasoning for kneecapping odyns fury? Probs in the minority but I loved the rotation of fury slayer in keys in S1

[sour frigate]

Minimum

[wintry wharf]

I'm finding myself casting bloodthirst and raging blow about the same amount of times in a dungeon (most recently brew) is that about right or am I undercasting one?

[worn umbra]

What does title have to do with this. U can get title on any class and spec.

I'm talking about class balance.

[restive peak]

So if you can achieve the highest end of the game

Where does the balance matter?

[sour frigate]

some specs didnt get title in tww1

[edgy widget]

technically they buffed it, but the reason for kneecapping Titan's Torment was to reduce the amount of instantaneous burst Fury could put out (mainly for raid purposes, a lot of specs couldn't even get the chance to hit targets when Fury could drop multiple strong abilities in a single global)

[worn umbra]

Don't u enjoy being able to compete with others in the dps meters? or am i missing something

[restive peak]

Because your ego can't handle not being #1 always on everything?

[worn umbra]

I think most people enjoy that

[restive peak]

I do compete with them in title keys

Or I wouldn't get title

[worn umbra]

And tell me

[restive peak]

In fact I can recall several title earning keys where I was #1 across the past few seasons, may even have the screenshots sitting around

[worn umbra]

Would u beat a dk / hunter / warlock / Boomie / Feral / Monk / Shaman, in overall?

[restive peak]

if I cared about being #1 overall, I would reroll every season

[worn umbra]

In most dungeons this season.

[radiant plank]

Yeah as arms

Chadding

[restive peak]

I'm typically #2 as fury, and #1 as arms

Monk absolutely btw

Feral absolutely btw

Shaman mostly unless it's Bondd

[worn umbra]

Yeah alright monk got nerfed now so i probably shouldn't have mentioned that one

[junior gale]

TLDR this convo is wahwahwah crying because my spec isnt the best in the game

[restive peak]

Warlock unless it's Babybrain/Pigson

[wintry wharf]

Im bursting like 9-10mil when an enhance shaman is over here doing 17mil.. it does feel a bit sadge. Got people saying "if only we had a 3rd dps"

[worn umbra]

But the other ones on big pulls should be default do more according to the sims right

[restive peak]

DK in TOP+DFC yes

[summer quail]

understandable. bondd is cracked

[restive peak]

Boomie in TOP+DFC yes

Compete w all of them as arms in all 8? Yes

[edgy widget]

random thought exercise - do you think Aug should be buffed? Cause it's currently in a worse position than Fury
or hell, even Dev if you wanna directly compare dps vs dps

[restive peak]

Ye Bondd is jesus man

[rugged blaze]

Lol I feel you dude. It really is pointless to argue here though. I'm currently sitting and have been applying to the last +12s I need for 1 hour now. Have to run your own key and play rng shit or find group.

[restive peak]

Everyone sits in queue for hours unless they know people

[rugged blaze]

Thats false lol

[restive peak]

You're 1 of 70+ DPS apping to every key

[worn umbra]

Well i just would like to hear people's opinions on this. I just miss being able to compete on big pulls as Fury. And no i'm not rerolling just saying how i feel about it.

[restive peak]

Yeah it's really not

[rugged blaze]

I tank too.

[restive peak]

And when you build your key

Do you take the highest io/ilvl?

Or the 1st 3 to apply?

[timber hare]

Ah so that's what it was. You think they'll bring it back into play this season? or are they trying to permanently move fury away from such big burst windows?

[restive peak]

Do you worry about a lust+brez 1st?

[rugged blaze]

Typically take a good comp, decent io, and dont wait in queue for too long cause I want to play.

[restive peak]

Are we the only non brez+lust class/spec?

[quiet breach]

I guess there's no reason to not pop d stance right before the ball activates then right?

[edgy widget]

idk man, I pug with a tank and we get pretty easy invites to +11s and 12s

[worn umbra]

I don't have a problem getting into keys. I just don't like the small output burst it has on aoe. And the overall.

I do understand it tho

[restive peak]

We do small burst, we do massive overall

Because we do our burst the entire key

[warm crag]

this isn't a real concern, you don't take damage from anything up there really

[edgy widget]

I actually did pug 2 +12s and 1 +11 last night with practically no wait time on any of them

[restive peak]

Whereas the classes bursting for crazy amounts will then do tank dmg until CDs

[modest condor]

dh, monk, priest, rogue

woops wrong ping

[junior gale]

having cds every pull always feels better than classes with 3min or 2 min cds

[worn umbra]

I understand we CD more often but. If the route and i assume the higher we go the more we pull. Practically fury becomes useless at some point

[restive peak]

In higher keys I go through 2 avas and 4/5 reck/rav/roars

[worn umbra]

Because they will want to pull bigger and bigger up to the point there's no more point to bring a fury.

[restive peak]

and I end up catching up

[edgy widget]

ultimately people need to realize that M+ is not a system which lends itself to strong balance (what do you even balance it for? +5, +10 max rewards, +15, +25?)

[restive peak]

Fury sucks in low keys, go arms. Boomie also sucks in low keys, and so does fire mage

They're S tier for high keys

[worn umbra]

Lets take floodgate for example

[junior gale]

like the guy yapping about starcraft ticks because a ret pally beat him in overall

[rugged blaze]

I think people realize that but I think there is definitely room to feel sadge considering warrior hasn't been a lock in spec for the last two - three expansions.

[restive peak]

So before you even present this

[edgy widget]

I love how this conversation repeats itself every season

[restive peak]

What level? 10, 8, 14, 20?

[worn umbra]

The first pull you're there with a DK. He does 20-30m , you're sitting there with 5-10m

and then the next pull the dk out dps you again.

How does it feel?

[restive peak]

Tons of specs havent been

He does not do 20-30mil

1st of all

That's a hilarious number

[hardy bluff]

maybe lose the ego and just do the key

[restive peak]

^

[hardy bluff]

dont need to top everything

[restive peak]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[rugged blaze]

Whataboutism. I would argue they should have their time in the light.

[restive peak]

So you think balance should be a rotating dice roll

[worn umbra]

So 1 million overall difference is fine i see

Alright i won't discuss it further then. This is pointless

[hardy bluff]

1m overall diff means youre ass

[restive peak]

Yes because where damage goes matters

[worn umbra]

Fury meta since prio damage.

[hardy bluff]

no offense

[edgy widget]

there are 38(?) diff specs in the game, not including hero variations, good luck with that

[worn umbra]

I'll tell everyone that

Gl

[restive peak]

I mean ok

[hardy bluff]

do that

have fun

[restive peak]

GL with your victimhood life big dog

[modest condor]

if that's your takeaway from this then you do you

[restive peak]

Hope you figure it out

[ashen socket]

I opened up this channel at a good time it seems

[restive peak]

My english is rough today btw holy fuck 3 monsters and typing

[summer quail]

no one is saying fury is meta. it doesnt need to be

[restive peak]

Is badge

[modest condor]

dont bother mutou

it's a lost cause

[timber hare]

Consumed by the Zug zug

[summer quail]

ye fair

[restive peak]

NOT META = USELESS BUFF 30% BLIZZ WHY

[wind haven]

If you pump hard and play good then people will invite you anyways, no?

[restive peak]

Very few keys are even gated by DPS

They're gated by surviving and pulling well

[hardy bluff]

you get invited if you are above the curve ilevel or io wise usually

noone knows how much dam you do

[edgy widget]

You know, while your points about Fury being mediocre aren't completely invalid, your arguments are awfully frivolous - you're talking to a guy who actually does regularly get title telling you that there are upsides and total performance isn't as bad as it may appear

just sayin, two things can simultaneously be true ya know

Fury may not be meta big dick burst, but can also be a solid overall performer at the same time

[rugged blaze]

I mean I don't disagree it would be difficult to rotate but they pretty easily did it with aug. Now prot pala and vdh next 🙂

[edgy widget]

you just need to recognize your strengths, and if they don't happen to be things you necessarily like or enjoy... play something else for a season, like holy fuck, the game has a lot of options - your favorite thing doesn't always need to be the best thing

[restive peak]

On a positive note; I just grape mio'd some diet 7 up and holy fuck?

It's goated?

[worn umbra]

@edgy widget I do understand that. And your point is valid. But yeah it just doesn't look very good the state of fury to the avarage group.

[warm crag]

okay ive not been following this convo but i think it was mentioned several times that theres a lot more specs than just fury so by definition there just literally isnt enough room in an m+ key for more than 5-7 specs to be "meta" - is the complaint really here just that fury isn't in that top 7 area?

[rugged blaze]

For sure, I dont disagree for the most part. Networking / performance 90% of the battle.

[restive peak]

They did it to aug because aug is most likely being accepted as a failed experiment and rework is inc

[ashen socket]

I mean you have Noxivs group getting world first keys right now so I think fury is in a pretty damn good spot. If you can't get into keys thats literally just a community perception problem which has just gotten worse since s3 of slands

[edgy widget]

lincc's life expectancy 📉 in real time

[restive peak]

Going for the fast and furious motto bro; live fast die young

[edgy widget]

live fast, die faster

[warm crag]

fury does have its niche that literally no one else can perform as well, its just not the niche that is asked of in m+

[restive peak]

I'm 36 in like 9 days bro, it's almost time to call it anyway

[wind haven]

IKR It's actually fucking good, I didn't expect it to taste so well lmao

[edgy widget]

the irony that for years people have qq'd about letting Fury be strong within its target cap
they finally do and everyone says "wait no, not like this!"

[wind haven]

I've been buying it for few weeks now since I am trying to avoid sugars in sodas to be healthier

[restive peak]

Sugar soda is gross, diet for life

[restive peak]

Lmao this ^

I am stoked about our spot tbh

[edgy widget]

but really it's just a byproduct of the nature of M+, which is something that will never change without fundamentally reworking the system or dungeon layouts

• higher keys are always going to encourage a "pull bigger/faster" mentality, which naturally lends itself to uncapped classes
• uncapping Fury might be a solution, but its one that just exacerbates the problem - encouraging more bigger/faster pulling
• honestly, the better solution would be capping more classes, but of course Blizz can't nerf anything without people losing their collective minds

[worn umbra]

Yeah i was just thinking if thunderous roar / odyn's fury would be uncapped again that would be a good start. Or maybe buff onslaught and have an extra button again

But again these are just ideas and i don't really know how it would all impact

[edgy widget]

see previous comment

[wind haven]

Can I have a newbie question? How does Fury APM and difficulty compare to other specs and classes? I've been able to only play fury atm since haha 3 weeks in wow....

[ashen socket]

Nah just uncap all classes

bigger pulls isnt a problem

Biggers pulls=bigger dam

better game

[edgy widget]

bigger pulls is very much a problem

[rugged blaze]

Think it might be a bit of that. I more so am just sadge that warrior hasn't really been meta in any of the specs for an entire season. Every time prot is up, it gets shot in the back and prot pala / vdh overlords take over.

[edgy widget]

in a variety of ways

[worn umbra]

True i remember in Shadowlands all classes were capped at some point but people didn't like it.

But uncapping some abilities again of Fury would be a nice thing in my opinion

Just for the feel of it

[marble schooner]

CW 12 left please god

[edgy widget]

it's a problem with

• lag
• threat issues
• mental bandwidth
• survivability issues
• crowd control requirements

and on a design level, it also introduces a problem with layouts, count, timers, certain affixes, and so on

[restive peak]

The best version would be similar to now but exasperated imo ; 4 dungeons of TOP/DFC style, and 4 of Flood/priory style, so diff classes and specs shined in different places

[marble schooner]

? capped spec does capped damage and loses to most uncapped dps spec in biggest pulls dungeon?

[rugged blaze]

But dps meter goes up soooooo

[wind haven]

fury needs nerf? number 1 spec in M+????!!!

[edgy widget]

yeah that's a partial solution, though the other issue is that some dungeons just get seen as the "good ones" and others the "bad ones"

[junior gale]

just the nature of M+ theres 40 somethimg specs and only 5 slots in a key. People need to learn to understand this and accept it.

[restive peak]

The forever problem (RIP SV)

[edgy widget]

more a measurement of the perseverance of the player and their group than the individual classes, but it definitely does indicate that Fury is not at all unviable

[limber pulsar]

Stop licking blizzard's ass, their balancing team is made up of a mass of incapable and idiots. Buff classes like shaman and paladin is ridiculous. And we as always are completely ignored

[fickle cedar]

they're running the dream comp its quite impressive

[slim coral]

I mean people brought fire mage when it was op at 5 targets and really good at prio

[edgy widget]

I don't think anyone here said anything about Blizz in the first place lol

[rugged blaze]

I disagree man. Like if you look at the past 4-5 seasons. Most classes have had their time in the light. I think people have been just held prisoner by this. I bet if you got back like 2 expansions nearly all or most classes have had their time in the sun in one spec. I'm arguing classes though, not specs.

[wind haven]

Of course, just wanted to throw in a lil joke with fury being in top 10 score for now at least. looking at tanks they have a bit less diversity atm

[fickle cedar]

just ran a 13 +2 with the same comp and it slaps, it was a mechagon tho

[fading sky]

U mean aug with aug and aug?

[marble schooner]

I think just changing our soft cap from 5 to 8 will "fix" us

[restive peak]

Yeah the past 4-5 seasons literally had 4 of the worst balanced seasons in recent history

Lol

[restive peak]

Breaks up completely due to our maintained ST

[edgy widget]

and look at it now!
#buffaug
#justiceforaug

[worn umbra]

Their team is very good, and that's why they push high. But overall in the end of the season things will look very different.. Especially with the state of fury. But yes i do believe player > class

[rugged blaze]

sorry I meant years lol

not seasons

[edgy widget]

not because I care about aug, I just want some

[restive peak]

Noxiv will be competitive with meta specs when the season ends too, as he always is

[marble schooner]

well maybe not the WW cleave but at least TB

[warm crag]

idk warrior certainly isn't the only class that just doesnt exist in the meta usually just cause of how its handled designwise, your complaint is valid that surely warrior shouldve been in there at some point since legion but if your concern genuinely is to play a meta class you should have rerolled a caster ages ago

[junior gale]

thats not how things work blizz doesnt go oh this class hasnt been "meta" in a long time time to buff them and design change them to be really strong in a dungeon scenario

[edgy widget]

the minute you mention Aug in discord...

[ashen socket]

Lag- Get better internet, Threat- Not a problem for tanks in higher keys who btw are the only ones doing those pulls Mental bandwidth? You pulled that out of your ass, Surv issues- Sure but thats why you figure it out or pull smaller- Crowd control req? Same response to the last point. uncapping every class wouldn't change a thing about how people pull the highest keys because they are already taking the classes that are uncapped anyway for 95% of those keys. If anything it would open it up more to the other classes in the game that are currently capped.

[wind haven]

Why is not every warrior player like Noxiv? We would take over the world

[chrome plover]

get better internet based

[restive peak]

Noxiv should highlight the bigger reality; if you have a team, you can be very high up

If you pug, you'll likely be hardstuck regardless

[ashen socket]

Yeah

[worn umbra]

But isn't it silly how a dk does 1-1,5m more overall than him

[junior gale]

^

[restive peak]

You need a network on this game even as a mage

[ashen socket]

even as prot warrior

[edgy widget]

"get better internet" lol not the strongest point to start on
you do know that not all lag is actually a matter of latency right?

[worn umbra]

I get the point of prio damage and i agree

but 1 - 1,5m difference?

[ashen socket]

Sorry

get more ram

[worn umbra]

that gap must be made smaller

[rugged blaze]

I dont disagree. But I'm saying they should lol

[edgy widget]

"bigger pulls are better"
"bigger pulls can lead to survivability issues"
"then pull smaller"

LOL WHAT

what kind of an argument even is that

smh my head

[fading sky]

Last good season was pre aug

[marble schooner]

I think making TB and DR soft cap at 8 rather than 8 already would make our aoe feel way better compared to uncapped specs , we dont need to be straight up uncapped

[junior gale]

would be nice but the game just isnt designed soley around M+ theres multiple aspects of the game that need to be taken into account

[fading sky]

Also just stop caring about meta so much

[rugged blaze]

I think Blizzard is capable of figuring it out. They figured out arena / pve balance typically.

[fading sky]

Fury is very good atm

[ashen socket]

Yes take certain points out of context and put it in a way that makes you seem like you are smart in the argument, Keys are meant to be figured out and having the chance to pull bigger on a wider scale is a good thing, Please don't be mental cause I won't bother with the convo lol

[edgy widget]

idk man, have you been in #pvp lately?

[edgy widget]

I literally quoted you verbatim, but sure "out of context"
please, do us all a favor and don't bother with the convo anymore

[rugged blaze]

The balance is separate still lol

[junior gale]

I dont think Blizz is capable personally, but I dont envy their job wow is a massively complex game and balancing is a fucking nightmare

[brave solstice]

bigger pulls being better is entirely subjective

[junior gale]

its not as easy as some people think

[ashen socket]

Sure I'm clearly talking with someone that doesn't know what they are talking about lol, Only thing you should touch with an opinion is fury crafting cause every other opinion is just bad involving m+. Considering you have never even pushed you shouldn't even be in the conversation for end key tuning.

[edgy widget]

whatever you say 🤡

[rugged blaze]

Maybe not but uncap fuckin intimidating shout. I've spent enough time in here. Time to go m+.

[fickle cedar]

havent used that spell in so much

[edgy widget]

int shout being capped when shockwave isn't is pretty sad, I agree, but int shout has a ton of other issues too

[modest condor]

just talent into menace 4Head

[fickle cedar]

1.5m cooldown is insane

[modest condor]

i like how menace just makes int shout not work if your main target is immune to fear

[edgy widget]

yup

also an extra talent point that we really can't afford just to fix issues with the base spell really isn't an efficient use of talent points

[spare steppe]

They should unnerf rallying cry

[marble schooner]

Rally should be 25% hp on 5mans

[edgy widget]

they don't need to buff it, they just need to make it scale w/ party size

[eternal sundial]

Wouldnt hurt

[marble schooner]

• give us Lust

[eternal sundial]

I want non thane specific safeguard

Very op feature

[marble schooner]

and then we are hella looked after for M+

[spare steppe]

Thats a much more refined solution for sure

[marble schooner]

literally just that

[eternal sundial]

But alas it's a pvp talent

[heavy flax]

we need a tier set based on shattering throw, thoughts?

[fickle cedar]

ravager should throw stormbolts

[marble schooner]

this has happened no?

[edgy widget]

I tried forever to get them to add safeguard as a talent (either follow on or choice w/ intervene), but they wouldn't go for it

also the thane version sucks ass

[spare steppe]

Fury’s place in m+ and raid is fine, i dont think it needs buffs or nerfs

[junior gale]

Amen

[quiet prawn]

Still crazy to me that warriors don't have lust. Bloodlust and big angry man too angry to die go hand in hand

[spare steppe]

maybe tuning for talent choice

but not buffs

[modest condor]

imo the problem with rally is not with the amount of hp it gives but with the cooldown (altho increasing the hp wouldnt be bad either)

[edgy widget]

Wars don't need lust, and frankly it would hardly do anything for them anyway

Prot would actually benefit the most, before DPS specs

[junior gale]

Tank spec with a lust HUGE

[fickle cedar]

s1 m+ fury was in a better place than s2 m+ fury i think, well mostly due to odyn

[marble schooner]

rn its pretty hard to get into a group if they have disc priest/uhdk/prot or vdh

[spare steppe]

a tank with lust would he nutty

[junior gale]

lust brez argument will always be a cope tho we dont need it nor should we get it

plus we already have a brez its called jumper cables

not hard to do

[undone flower]

If you add people in friend list or ask to play again with pug (un-pug the pug) it should go very well

[edgy widget]

perhaps, but lust ain't gonna fix that because look at the classes you're up again
also hate to say it, but natural lust is incredibly overrated; in all but the absolute highest level of keys, drums work just fine

[marble schooner]

but public perception is the only thing that matters

[edgy widget]

that's more of a perception thing than anything else though

[marble schooner]

if it came down to that, you can easily time a +12/13 with an Aug

[chrome summit]

i thought Best in slot in OH would be good even if lower ilvl but (if i sim right) it sim alot less for me? its normal?

[edgy widget]

just saying, if you think Lust is suddenly going to result in a lot more DPS Warriors being invited to high keys... it's unlikely. The people who would benefit most are the Prot Wars

[spare steppe]

At least we bring a buff, the DK article on wowhead of utility was depressing

[static rock]

Anyone here that could look at what I could improve on from dungeon log?

[spare steppe]

#449510248579858432

[edgy widget]

#1347646810457636974

[spare steppe]

Oh wait theres 2 channels

[marble schooner]

well I did say give us +25% hp Rally on 5mans before lust, I agree lust by itself is not enough PR

[undone flower]

One without help

[edgy widget]

the former is depreciated, and will likely get deleted soon (see the last post in there for more detail)

[spare steppe]

o good to know

[marble schooner]

but Id be damned if we werent FOTM if we got a big rally buff for keys PLUS lust

at least for a patch

[spare steppe]

there's no benefit to being fotm

[undone flower]

3 dps specs are fotm, betting on the spinning wheel will only hurt you

[edgy widget]

if only we got a 50% damage buff, -1m on our defensie cd, lust, double rally, and...
we'd be FOTM for sure!

[junior gale]

you might get invited to keys 1% more often thats it kek

[stable stump]

I only see buffs for arms but not for fury, what a shiiiiiiiiit

[quiet breach]

is there a way to see drop rates of items from m+ or does blizzard hide that info

[undone flower]

Because fury is really good imo

[spare steppe]

arms buffs?

[edgy widget]

hidden, but wowhead has estimations

[marble schooner]

I mean arent FoTM classes just FoTM cause they can deal like, 10% more dmg than the average
hell, theres been patches where you can easily get into a group being Spriest just cause you can PI a mage or dk WITHOUT a mage or dk in the group

[stable stump]

For pvp

[spare steppe]

pvp isn't real

[marble schooner]

the common denominator that plays this game is dumb

[spare steppe]

and you cant tell me otherwise

[junior gale]

So true king

[marble schooner]

it doesnt matter why you are popular, it just matters that you are

[spare steppe]

can we get an onsalught buff

[undone flower]

Arcane mage season 1 (last on the overall but not why it was meta)

[stable stump]

PVP is for men.

[junior gale]

go play a real pvp game

wow aint it

[stable stump]

like which? valorant? hahahaha

[junior gale]

anything thats not wow

[edgy widget]

this is very true, but it also depends on what levels we're talking about
for example:

• theres been patches where you can easily get into a group being Spriest just cause you can PI a mage or dk WITHOUT a mage or dk in the group
  Perhaps, but there are other targets PI is good for

it's also worth acknowledging that these kind of "perception issues" don't exist so much at the high end, where player knowledge tends to be generally higher. Does it even matter if you can get invited more to lower keys when those aren't the keys you're struggling to get invited to?

[undone flower]

Chicken fight are the real PvP game

[junior gale]

People think M+ is treated like a minigame forget pvp exists

[edgy widget]

you spelled masochists wrong

[undone flower]

I think m+ is designed to be a mini-game (like a league game)

30min game idk the term

[junior gale]

not wrong M+ wasnt supposed to be anything massive when it came out just another expansion feature. But now M+ has grown to be massively popular rivaling raiding

which is why it should get more attention

[marble schooner]

I totally agree, and perception issues surely dont exist on the top 0.1% of keys, but its been a few seasons now where I surf around the top 1% and know for sure ppl in the 3000-3100io bracket still are prey to public perception

and im sure like, 90% of ppl in this discord rn are at or below the 3000-3100 io bracket

[edgy widget]

this season is still fairly young too, tbf

the io and key levels are just inflated due to mega nerfs early on

[undone flower]

Why rivaling when you can do both

[junior gale]

unfortunatly theres haters on both sides. M+s who complain about having to raid and raiders complaining that they have to do 10s

[marble schooner]

yah I agree but still historically, even if we leave out this season in particular, most ppl here wont push far past 3kio

[undone flower]

Yeah the digit value of Rio score change every seasons

[edgy widget]

they won't, which is exactly why I don't care about issues that only exist beyond 3k (or whatever its equivalency happens to be in a given season)

[undone flower]

5k a season 3k another

[marble schooner]

yeah thats why I used percentiles at first
but still what I mean is that most ppl here wont push to a lvl where being actually META matters, but stay around a level where being PERCEIVED as good does matter

ive never gone a season without this discord being full of sadgers that just post screenshots of being permadeclined (tho I think this season has been pretty okay so far for me specifically )

[undone flower]

The meta hivemind has its claws all to the bottom +2, just don’t pug is my biggest advice

[marble schooner]

the strategy ive seen works best is just run your own key till you have at least half of the keys on the next lvl (like 4 keys timed +12 and 4 timed +11) then you will prob get invited to the remaining 4 cause your io is big enough

[edgy widget]

lol yup, I was saying earlier it's funny how these conversations seem to repeat each season

honestly the best thing you can do is just make a friend, especially if it's one who can tank/heal, and do keys with them

how do yall think people like Critcake or Novix get so high? they're not pugging all their keys, they're (mostly) playing with regular premade groups

[undone flower]

Yeah that’s a good thing too, just remind yourself that you can actually un-pug a pug by adding people and talking to them in /p after the key

[edgy widget]

and you may not necessarily have 5 people, but even just two together have a much better chance than going solo

[forest owl]

getting into a key isn't so much the most frustrating thing for me, it's getting into one then finding your tank wants to mega pull everything and the boss or a healer dies to a frontal and the key just disbands lol

[edgy widget]

lmao, yeaaaah... I think we've all been there

we did a big mecahagon pull last night and the healer decided to incap half the mobs halfway through the pull, separating them, which ofc lead to deaths

[undone flower]

Really good point too Archi, if you do your own key and you are premade, it is 1 less pug to roll

[edgy widget]

then he had the gall to say "can't fix inting" and leave the party

https://tenor.com/view/the-universe-tim-and-eric-mind-blown-mind-blown-meme-mind-explosion-mind-explosion-meme-gif-18002878

[edgy widget]

even if it's not necessarily your key, but yeah a lot of people seem to be allergic to ever building or running their own

[undone flower]

It may be hard to tag in a key with 2 dps (idk I’m tank AHahah)

[edgy widget]

but I mean... make a friend, play with guildies, or find a guild to play with; if anything it's usually more fun having someone to just bullshit in discord with while you're gaming anyway

[undone flower]

But your friend tank or heal = free ticket

[edgy widget]

that's my strategy

[junior gale]

who knew the best way to have fun in an MMORPG is to make and play with friends

wild

[undone flower]

Tank is golden ticket because he hard carry the key (by choosing what to pull)

[edgy widget]

even more so because they can tell you what they're gonna pull before they do it!

pug tanks that just pull randomly without telling people the route first make me question my life decisions

[undone flower]

I can’t send route in pug bc I don’t have any yet lol(I still in 10 gearing my war)

Feral gaming friend, wtf

[coarse nest]

Queuing with tank friends is the best
“Hey you got damage for this pull I’ll add more”

[undone flower]

Or can you help me to pull more

Because heroic throws are cringe sometimes

[quiet breach]

so I want to see if I can farm a plate hero track piece from m+ tonight so I can catalyze it for raid and have 4 PC. I need either a hands, shoulders, or legs. what is the highest drop rate plate piece of those armor types I can get in m+? did some research and the winner so far is thunder clad legguards at 19% droprate. y'all know of any other good ones?

[clever belfry]

no

[quiet breach]

if I can't get it I'll just catalyze a normal track cuz I now have an extra from hitting 2k io

[undone flower]

Choose a dungeon with more tier slot and spam it

And ask someone (a tank) to tag with you

For example if you are EU I can

[quiet breach]

I am NA

[warm crag]

the n in na stands for noober

[smoky vale]

noober alert

spongus

[warm crag]

wtf

i got stix wep