fury

[iron portal]

Cant speak for WoD enough though

[smoky vale]

[warm crag]

scroll up to see her picutre

[iron portal]

Warrior def had less buttons in WoD though

[warm crag]

evil creature

[smoky vale]

already did

[quiet breach]

ye I guess

I'm ngl tho, hunting rares is one fun thing I can do in the world

does the gear u get from that keep scaling up forever?

or does it cap off at some point

[warm crag]

should stop before it gets relevant in endgame

[undone flower]

It is capped and I don’t think rares ones change by your current ilvl

[dense elbow]

Imagine if it scaled to mythic track

[undone flower]

Yeah hopefully it’s only world quests the only thing left in the game that scale with your current ilvl (for drops)

[fervent yoke]

I macro’d reck, Ava, and roar together last season (playing RA) and got 99’s so yeah rng also a factor

[quiet breach]

whirlwind is on the gcd right?

[fervent yoke]

Yea

[quiet breach]

is roar on gcd?

[restive peak]

Yeah but the other 2 aren't

[smoky vale]

yes

[undone flower]

Don’t do macro sequences please

[fervent yoke]

Yes but reck and Ava aren’t

[restive peak]

I run an ava/reck/roar macro as well

And then I just have reck/roar on their own spots for if I only want to send short CDs

[fervent yoke]

If you take the talent that makes roar 45 sec I don’t suggest macro though

[smoky vale]

things that arent are reck ava charge stances reflect walls

[radiant plank]

reck ava charge

macro

[restive peak]

I still don't understand why you wouldn't just reck>charge then ava on enrage

[quiet breach]

anyone have a blood fury CD tracker weakaura?

[undone flower]

And your kick

[restive peak]

It's such muscle mem to do it that way anyway cuz of RA

[fervent yoke]

I charge then pop CDs oh well

agreed

[restive peak]

You don't want to not reck>charge because you don't want to send roar unenraged

Unless you're just gonna waiting for 1st ramp to send, which tbh also will likely not impact your final parse

[fervent yoke]

I usually ramp after popping

[restive peak]

Except the 1/100 pulls where the 2 GCD loss is when the boss dies

Yeah you're losing enrage on your roar is all

[fervent yoke]

But yes the way you have it is perfect

Idk I still 99 bosses last season so it worked for me

[restive peak]

Yeah ofc, I mean most of these minor optimizations are within the margin of RNG

Plenty of 98-100s have "mistakes", and plenty of 95s have perfection

Once you pass like 95 on a parse, it's RNG

A lot of the time

[undone flower]

I think you can 100% 99+ ovinax mythic even if you don’t reck on pull (have a separate button)

[restive peak]

Ofc you can, ovinax was as much about your raid teams AOE as your own

If you had an ele giga blast the adds, you won't hit 99+

[smoky vale]

you just need everyone to hit boss

and you solo

otherwise eta gg

[restive peak]

People should really worry about 90+ averaging "performance" wise, and not obsess so hard

A lot of 100s are also early season kills where someone had a gear advantage, and their "top damage" isn't even the 100, you will show your highest parse

[warm crag]

can i obsess?

[restive peak]

So if you get a 1.5mil 100 early tier, and proceed to get 1.9mil 95s late tier, your WCL will show 1.9mil 100

[restive peak]

Over me? Yes please bae

[coarse nest]

90+ average is the best and most realistic goal

[warm crag]

https://tenor.com/view/laughing-orange-cat-orange-cat-laughing-cat-laughing-gif-15250308434385398256

[restive peak]

It's the only thing that really matters, 91-100 is as much RNG and kill time as skill

[smoky vale]

over

[restive peak]

Don't get me wrong it feels cool to see a 99/100, but it isn't necessarily indicative of skill

[coarse nest]

You can climb world rank with a 90 average no problem

[restive peak]

There's also a vast diff between someone with a 98 average and 15+kills, vs someone with a 95 and 3-4 kills

[coarse nest]

Just do the 90+ average while also using pots, defensives, low death count

Ez

[restive peak]

Odds are the 95 player is better, and the 98 guy just killed it so many times he rando'

d into a good RNG pull

[coarse nest]

Not only rng but also people playing intentionally to log well and that doesn’t necessarily benefit the team killing the boss

Example: spawning extra parasites on ovinax

[restive peak]

Yeah shit is degenerate, I literally do not care about parses

[undone flower]

For healers: failing an egg crack

[restive peak]

I have several top 10 worlds on end bosses in the past few tiers and I did not do any CD timings to parse, it just happened; my nelth 1 was that 4 people died and we had an extra add set that aligned w CDs for example

[coarse nest]

Do effective damage and be a liver

That’s best thing you can do!

[restive peak]

Yep

Let the chips fall man

I've seen top 50 guild players int because they weren't gonna parse well, and it slowed down prog drastically; it's so fuckin toxic

All logs should be private 1st like 8 weeks, seriously every guild who did that would see a productivity increase imo

[iron portal]

rashanan after wlogs decided to be special

[restive peak]

I am curious to see what constitutes what for parsing this tier

[coarse nest]

I never stopped doing the aoe on the fights that wcl removed the aoe

Because I play for the team to kill the boss

[restive peak]

Same

[iron portal]

Thats good

But not everybody is like that and it very much showed right the day they implemented it

[restive peak]

My parses also all go up if you switch to "damage to bosses"

[undone flower]

Which bosses will not count in all stars mmmmmh

[iron portal]

All of them. Remove All stars

[coarse nest]

I like the competitive nature of logging I just wish there was a better way to encourage proper play instead of people inting there team mates to get the best log

[restive peak]

I use my logs to see if I could've improved

[coarse nest]

Is what it is though

[restive peak]

Otherwise I do not care

[coarse nest]

Exactly

[quiet breach]

there's wcl for dungeons? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/20

[coarse nest]

Switch points to damage

[quiet breach]

I need to set up logging so I can see my performance and stuff in dungeons once I start doing them

[undone flower]

Yes but don’t ever talk about dungeon parses bc no one log keys you will be along 10 dudes

[coarse nest]

I’d suggest “loggerhead”

[gilded pawn]

I think anything over 90 proves you are good

Especially on first 5 kills

Rest is just luck

[restive peak]

100%

[coarse nest]

Makes it incredibly passive, all you have to do is click “live logging” on the warcraftlogs app and then forget about it for the rest of your session

[iron portal]

everything above 70 tbh you are good

Not perfect but you are doing well

[south kayak]

What's the DRIVE config that makes it better?

I heard of one a few days ago

[restive peak]

I have my lowest "parse average" in basically ever last tier because I killed stuff > quit, when I interviewed for my now guild I pointed it out and they said "you have a 90 average with 2-3 kills we're not concerned"

[south kayak]

I forgot it

[coarse nest]

Purple good
Oranges best

[restive peak]

And that's when you know they know what to look for

[iron portal]

Reading the logs correctly also isnt forte of everyone

[coarse nest]

I’d assumed they cared about “did this player use cooldowns effectively”
“Did this player die the most”

[undone flower]

And he didn’t quit the prog

[coarse nest]

Not omg lucky rank 1 best player ever next world first blah blah blah

[restive peak]

Yeah, and also they're aware the margin of RNG of 3 kills vs 15 means it's clearly realistic, based on my past results, I could get 99 average by just playing more frequently

[iron portal]

Not sure, there are few that make one thing worse for making other better

[restive peak]

But there are mid guilds who look at a 95 average 15 kill player who has several 50s and assumes they're better than a 90 guy with 4 kills, and that's where logs are a useful tool but can also be useless

[gilded pawn]

I’m not sure about 70

[coarse nest]

“Did this player attend 95%- 100% of progression”

[gilded pawn]

That’s the lower end

I think 70 means you know how to play the game

But unironically can’t pad

So you don’t know how to hold cd for adds

(Me when I full follow hekili)

[coarse nest]

[iron portal]

Hekili? More like me no kili

[coarse nest]

Hekili strikes again

[restive peak]

It's absolutely possible to parse a 70 and play well on a prog pull where you RNG 5 mechanics

I'd say if you're averaging 70 across a tier in max gear, there are clear improvements you could be making rotationally or uptime wise

[undone flower]

I used my cds on cd on silken eheh I did above 70 just because I was one of the dudes alive at the end

Dmg amp not my prob

[gilded pawn]

Yeah damage amps are my bane

Hekili can’t account for it

My first tier was CN

[undone flower]

Does it still works well for ret ?

[gilded pawn]

Sludgefist was not it

[coarse nest]

I was close to a 90+ average this tier

Only got to kill queen once and logged blue

88% avg though

[restive peak]

Bro I killed queen twice and logged 58, I did not even remotely know timings cuz I killed early>took 14 weeks off>walked back into kill the day after returning

Who cares lol

[restive pewter]

gigachad

[coarse nest]

(Mobile crop limitations)

😜 Gottem

If only I held my last odyns bs for the add set instead of pumping it into boss

[gilded pawn]

Hekili?

[coarse nest]

Could have padded better but that wasn’t in the interest of the team killing the boss
(We killed boss a few globals after the 3rd add set iirc)

[gilded pawn]

I genuinely don’t think what you press matters

As long as you don’t overcap hp

[undone flower]

Yeah my casual friend used it in DF and did 99s parses (in hc / i know hc logs…. Voila…)

[gilded pawn]

I don’t think hekili is optimal obviously

[restive peak]

It's based on the APLs it's actually quite good

[gilded pawn]

But I do think most guilds could have a couple more guys using it

[restive peak]

It's just can you focus on it + the mechanics

If so, it's good

[undone flower]

Yeah but some specs fit the hekili more it seems

[gilded pawn]

Anything with less procs/rng is nice

[restive peak]

I assume the more proc based you are, the more it gets wonky

[iron portal]

It is helpful tool, used to be much worse

[restive peak]

But fury and arms are not super proc based

AI has come far

I definitely recommend people use hekili and a target dummy on a new spec for an hour or two

[gilded pawn]

You never seen the Windwalker ai based rotation helper

[restive peak]

Then get a good WA and delete it

[gilded pawn]

That shit is insane

[restive peak]

It's very good for learning the basics and muscle memory

[gilded pawn]

It does computation in real time

[undone flower]

When NPC raid ??? Oh wait…

[restive peak]

Wild

[gilded pawn]

Instead of following apl

[coarse nest]

When can I do follower raids for mythic loot

[undone flower]

Or use my credit card

[coarse nest]

LOL

Where’s the 500usd max ilvl package

[iron portal]

on some shady webs prob

[coarse nest]

That’ll probably be the day I’m actually done with this game

But until then I’m hooked

[undone flower]

I hope in the housing system you can buy with money stuff similar to CE kills rewards so you can pretend

[coarse nest]

If they don’t let me mount a dragons head above my entrance!!!

[undone flower]

I unsub if no furry suit servant

[gilded pawn]

My combo was dbm+gtfo+hekili

It was invincible

[molten night]

i don't even use hekili anymore

just DBM/GTFO 😄

GTFO saves lives

[restive peak]

Can't imagine why anyone wouldn't run GTFO tbh

[eternal sundial]

Hearing damage

Bigwigs sound is horrid enough

[gilded pawn]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/803345845168504842/1345992080060846110/image.png?ex=67c6904f&is=67c53ecf&hm=cb57a2d4a3362e0ae34b8aad6ed34aeaf8576610902883c495330feacec8e098&

That’s not true

Get the overwatch sound pack

[gilded pawn]

It’s to prevent yourself from dying to poop while staring at hekili

[eternal sundial]

I want Winston to moan when i get hit

[grim prism]

https://tenor.com/view/warrior-blizzard-wow-classic-push-hank-hill-gif-27417019

[runic violet]

Isn't dps warrior S/A tier this season (at least for now)

[coarse nest]

It’s playable like all other specs in the game

[molten night]

yea

[eternal sundial]

What's sexual assault tier wtf

[molten night]

https://tenor.com/view/champoy-el-risitas-kek-issou-etu-gif-17837830

[grim prism]

it's what shows up when you look up fury warrior on gifs

https://tenor.com/view/wow-tbc-fury-warrior-dont-gif-24721432

this too for some reason

we don't need two, we already have 1

[eternal sundial]

Look up skull of guldan

Idk if i should post it here

[grim prism]

https://tenor.com/view/skull-gif-25694630

doesn't seem that bad

[eternal sundial]

Idk some ppl complained about my gif usage prior

🐸

[undone flower]

I never used it, what does it do ?

[coarse nest]

Damn why does that skull gif look badass!

[restive peak]

Yells at you if you take a tick of any ground mechanic

[undone flower]

So gtfo is wa /bw for slacking ?

[gilded pawn]

Yeah it’s really annoying

[undone flower]

The awful tick sound of whatever addons already is enough for me

[eternal sundial]

Do you know the air horn sound for dbm

It's that every fucking tick it's horrid for the ears

I despise loud weakauras id rather have a distinct sound

[coarse nest]

It blares the horn non stop even for trivial ground effects that can damage you

[eternal sundial]

I love the meow or chaching for example

[undone flower]

I think bw does it, is the awful squick

[coarse nest]

I got rid of it years ago ngl

[eternal sundial]

At least it doesnt blast ur ears

[earnest canyon]

DBM just tells me to watch my feet or other stuff so thats enough for me

[undone flower]

Im a sound guy, I need my screen to flash bang me and being a zoo in my headset

(Yes I mainly use animal sounds)

Like the ovinax swirlies drop sound is not enough for me

[burnt kelp]

That's a TBC gif

gotta keep these bloodlust rolling

3 bloodlust per fight

🔥

[true sequoia]

Why does every content creator rank differently and exclusively rank based on m+..... what about the raids! Lol I don't do m+

[strong sage]

Whats everyones feelings towards Dragon roar and Champions Spear for their single target build?

[modest condor]

it just so happens that most people who make tierlists are m+ mains

[next ruin]

Two cosmetic versions of the same thing, one is annoying to use

[true sequoia]

Maybe I'm just getting old, miss the days of looking forward to getting in the raid team for naxx, icc etc, this m+ scene is just too min max orientated for me 😂

[modest condor]

as for why it's all different: because most of the time they only actually know from like 5 specs how strong they really are and the rest is just guesswork

[strong sage]

I'm pushing slightly more dps with champions spear

It lines up slightly better, DR seems to off cooldown at awkward times

[next ruin]

They have the same cooldown

[strong sage]

depends

[next ruin]

Ok lol

[strong sage]

You know Dragon Roar can be 45 sec cooldown right?

[true sequoia]

I'm assuming the preferences in m+ are majorly based on aoe as to nuke trash down etc to best the timer? Wonder if the meta would shift were there no timers

[modest condor]

it's a lot of different factors, but yes dps is usually the deciding one (altho not necessarily just aoe blasting)

the most powerful damage profile is being able to do big aoe while still having good prio damage

[junior gale]

Prio dmg is usually more important in M+

[modest condor]

like for example arms has done better aoe than fury for a long time now but usually fury is still the more popular spec because it has way better prio damage

[strong sage]

Surprised ya didnt know

[next ruin]

Both are 90s idk what you're on

[true sequoia]

I see arms always sitting in the A and up area, fury in B or lower, and bm hunters for example have really good damage but are always low aswell , I dont get it tbh lol

[modest condor]

then there is tankiness, while not as important, if you have a squishy spec and you're not playing with multiple externals (barksin, sac, pain supp, aug evoker etc.) then you're gonna have a hard time living in the highest keys

[modest condor]

like i said, the tierlist makers are just unfamiliar with the specs

for a long time they just had fury ahead of arms by default, even in season that arms was clearly doing way more dps than fury

but they just never played with a good dps warrior so they didnt know

[next ruin]

Then it's not a single target build, and also it doesn't desync, 45*2=90 genius

[strong sage]

What are you on?? XD

DR can be 45 second CD

[modest condor]

i mean yoda literally said "i havent really played with fury but i saw crit do more dps as arms than as fury" when asked why fury is B tier in his list

[next ruin]

Don't ask about preferring spear to roar in ST by saying "roar is 45s" please

[strong sage]

Ill do what I like buddy

[next ruin]

Like him putting warlock up top but we can count he will play a big amount of 0 key with any warlock Im betting

[strong sage]

Getting your knickers in a twist cos you forgot DR can be on a 45 second cooldown

chill

[true sequoia]

Yeah gotcha, I just think it's gotten silly now basically content locking classes , that's why I prefer raiding, anyone can do it lol

[modest condor]

that's just the nature of infinitely scaling content

at some point a spec just isnt enough to cut it anymore

[next ruin]

No you're clueless I'm not responding anymore

[strong sage]

cry some more, learn the class

[modest condor]

even if spec x is 1% ahead of spec y, at the end all the meta chasers will play spec x

[true sequoia]

Shame that really, forced people to constantly re roll every season

[heavy nacelle]

When you point that out people respond witb "but DF S1 had a really diverse meta wih lots of specs"

[next ruin]

The 1% dps diff reroll is more something for raid. For m+ you just can't beat what other brings

[strong sage]

Its ashame people feel the need, suppose thats running with the meta, gotta keep up!

[junior gale]

Blizzard isn't doing this the community is

[modest condor]

in m+ it is absolutely a dps thing as well, notice how nobody was playing mage last season despite it not losing any utility?

[true sequoia]

I've played between my warlock and my warrior for 16 years, missed the last 2 expansions, came back in tww and it's just crazy how quick it changes from being a good class to not being wanted anymore lol

[junior gale]

Reality is only 5 specs can be in a m+ dungeon out of the what 39 different specs. The gaming community is obsessed with meta so naturally people are gonna make tier lists to figure out what best to play. Even if the tier lists really don't tell you anything

So some classes or specs just get fucked by community sentiment.

[next ruin]

There were several tgp teams with mages, and true 2 spots were insta locked by aug (no one could compete the spot) and enh shammy (no one could compete the spot). But seasons to seasons they're meta every other patch, warlock, warrior never. Its not damage

[strong sage]

the tier list things has perpetuated the meta foolishness to ridiculous levels, when differences are quite minimal

[junior gale]

Pretty much

People have proven you can get title on any spec. Which is why people recommend if you wanna push M+ you find friends not pug

[strong sage]

Yeah exactly

[next ruin]

Compare mages' kit in legion with warlocks', then compare them both in tww. They chose what spec would be op in m+ and which one will be unplayable

[strong sage]

unplayable is a stretch

[junior gale]

If you want title and you choose to pug for it you deserve to play the meta mini game because that's what pugging is

[next ruin]

Most of the time they're playing their shitty spec with 4 people playing meta

[junior gale]

Not really

[strong sage]

Yeah, warriors have to work harder in the sense they have to find a group, but once they find that, theres not much stopping them.

[modest condor]

there was 1 team that played mage and they got knocked out on the first day

[junior gale]

Critcake got title for years with his grp playing off meta shit

[next ruin]

Yea banshers also, but they are the exceptions

[modest condor]

also funny you mentioned warlock because warlock was meta for 2 seasons in shadowlands

because they did the most damage

[junior gale]

No they aren't exceptions

[sour frigate]

check demolock or mm now xd

[junior gale]

It's called you are playing an MMO make some fucking friends

And play with them

[strong sage]

I think Monk is another casualty of the meta brigade

[next ruin]

Yea they have to be literally op damage wise to be in a meta comp, it happened like 3 times in 7 years

Just count the amount of time any warlock was brung to the tgp

[modest condor]

and dk was meta for most of this season despite having basically the same amount of utility as warrior

[next ruin]

Bring brang?

[modest condor]

brought

[next ruin]

Thank you....

[modest condor]

england hard language

[next ruin]

They cheesed a lot of dungeons this season

[next ruin]

On god

They also did everything we did better

[open prairie]

Its literally about damage

then suddenly your spec has “utility”

cope af

[next ruin]

The utility is doing more damage

[open prairie]

yeah look at enh

[next ruin]

Enh was busted and scaled with pi, which is stupid design wise

So 2 spots are taken already

[modest condor]

if priest wasnt the strongest healer you wouldnt have brought a pi

[next ruin]

Yea but blizzard gives the healer with pi the strongest Rework for 5 men content

[open prairie]

They were also bad for years in 5 mans

🤷‍♂️

End of the day its your own fault to pug and complain about meta

make friends

[next ruin]

Priest with mages are the 2 specs that have been meta the most in 5 men. Yes it was bad in legion maybe but that doesn't really matters

[open prairie]

legion and bfa

also pretty sure sl wasnt priest healer meta until s3

[next ruin]

I'm not complaining, but i think 5% damage doesn't matter

[open prairie]

its alot more than 5%

[azure holly]

if you don't have WW talents, how many targets are needed for WW to be worth pressing?

[junior gale]

If there's ever more than one target you should be in WW talents

[static rock]

At what point do you not have WW talents in a Multitarget situation?

[azure holly]

well suppose you do ST for a boss and there's a short period with adds

something along those lines

not enough to warrant talent swap, so when would it be worth AoEing at that point?

[modest condor]

never

you are either talented into ww talents or you dont press the button

[azure holly]

ok so not even on like 10+ targets

[remote bobcat]

yea look at a spec who had a broken healing cd as dps, who brought skyfury, who had a knockup, stun and small incap while also rocking the highest dmg output and having a 12 second ranged interrupt while being able to talent into tremor, curse dispel or poison dispel totem true only about damage true very true (true)

habibiprayge

[vivid widget]

wher can i find a fury build for m+

all sites i check dont have any

[junior gale]

If there is any adds on a boss fight you will be in WW talents

[past pivot]

#updates-midnight message

[vivid widget]

i tryed to check but could not see one

[near wing]

Has fury warrior thane rotation really changed that much? I imported the thane m+ build from wow head and ran a NW 13 last night and didn’t notice anything drastically different. Other than some desyncing, I was pumping around 3mm dps

I would just charge, blast, Rb,BT,Rb, rampage, blast - blow cooldowns whenever available. Am I missing anything?

[undone flower]

I think you might be the best warrior I’ve seen yet, I never saw someone with 3 m overall this season

But I didn’t do a lot of dungeons this week since key scaling is weird

[indigo arch]

Very much so, AM is horrid

Fuck desync, fuck odyn being weak

[near wing]

I mean, I’m not the best warrior, not even close, but I know how to play, and was at 2.99mm. Before the patch/changes, I would average 2.1mm overall in NW

[near wing]

Yea, the desync did suck, but I didn’t try to optimize and just blew everything as it was available

[lucid skiff]

Do we have a list of what is spell shield reflectable in the upcoming raid yet

[undone flower]

Nop don’t tell anything

[coarse nest]

Heroic is puggable you don’t even need to join a heroic only guild

You can farm yourself good heroic logs in pugs and jump right into a mythic guild

[pale geyser]

Just get your parses up thats all most non-hof guilds care about for dps

[undone flower]

Just nod at everything and leave when you want (and you can pug hc yes)

[pale geyser]

You’ll get infinite trials with good parses

[fickle cedar]

i think the reflect weak aura got updated

[undone flower]

Get into a guild that cleared hc and might accept you bc your hc raid logs and leave to join a CE guild when you did your Mythic parses

[lucid skiff]

Yes but blizzard has talked about removing a bunch of addons like weak aura so i don't really want to get dependant on them

[coarse nest]

Their is no way they will ever remove Weakauras

We are too far down the rabbit hole on that one

[rigid stirrup]

What they might do is update UI stuff so people dont need to use WA's for that part of it

buts its too versatile of a tool for blizz to remove from the game

[grand violet]

i wish they would just for banter

and replace it with nothing

[coarse nest]

Weakauras have become so incredibly powerful blizzard will be very hard pressed to mimic those capabilities in the base ui and offer comparable possibilities

The debuff tracking they’re adding is a nice start though

[quiet breach]

what ilvl should I get to before trying a normal raid? what about heroic?

[true sequoia]

Bm just had thier upcoming 10% buff reduced to 5% 😅

[coarse nest]

Realistically like 620 (or even less) could probably do the new raid on normal but you will have a hard time pugging at that ilvl when people with 638 ilvl will be queuing along side you

I’d go for atleast 630 probably or just que and some chill folks might drag you along it’s only normal after all

[edgy widget]

they deserve it

[frank dawn]

nuke all uncapped aoe classes

down with them

[undone flower]

If I was a full pug I would just spam m+ for the first week for ilvl and maybe touch the nm raid and not hard try the heroic if pug unfriendly

Bc you do waste a lot of time in pug raid filling the group, leaving the group and joining another bc unkillable with this group etc

[coarse nest]

Oh I know trust me.. I spent 7 hours killing heroic fyrakk in Saturday night pug week 1 lmao

[sour frigate]

Same with ansurek for me

[coarse nest]

My guild decided not to do it week 1 and I wanted it week 1 so a few of us ran a pug all night and it was horrendous

Guild I’m with now is probably good enough to do it week 1 assuming it’s not broke in some way

We might try the first boss or two on mythic instead of AOTC this week though

Hopefully both

[hexed hornet]

hey guys im returning to the game after pushing to M Court last season before the half patch. I dont have Cyrce's Signet, I saw nerfs coming- is it worth it for me to grab it, or would I be fine ignoring

[grim prism]

https://tenor.com/view/fury-warrior-wotlk-wrath-world-of-warcraft-warrior-gif-26902442

[whole relic]

#updates-midnight message

[dapper goblet]

madox for yellow

[high echo]

massive W

[sour frigate]

Take it

[hexed hornet]

ty

[summer crater]

0.3% ST buff and 1% AOE nerf

[open prairie]

somehow none of this mattered in df

until they did like 7m burst dps this expac

[lofty jay]

which priority list should I follow? wowhead or icyveins? they are different but the author seems to be the same person

[coarse nest]

Meta is always the highest damage composition and they make the utility those specs bring work

That’s why it’s always funny to see people saying warrior needs more utility so they can get invites more

Nah bro warrior needs to pump 10% ahead of everyone else and then we’ll get invited

Just like any other spec would

[remote bobcat]

it was a stops expansion

[sour frigate]

^^^^

[jade swan]

Good Evening Everyone,

How are you all doing? I am so interested in starting the new season 2 with all the best talent for both Raid/M+ and any tips / advises out there, so anyone would like to guide me to which website I should follow for now to get the best out of my Fury, please? is it wowhead or icyviens? need the latest updated info for everything I need, please. Thank you so much in advance.

[earnest canyon]

both are good, there is very little between them....i just use wowhead as I prefer the layout

if there was any huge difference it would be corrected as guide writers talk

to each other

[frank dawn]

and in the case of warrior, both sites are written by the same person (Archi)

so just use the format you prefer

[earnest canyon]

oh i didnt know that....im used to hunter where different guys write for each site, but the info is the same

makes it even easier on warrior then

[lofty jay]

but they are not the same? for example if you select RA, then the wowhead guide says to rampage at 115 rage, then crushing blow when at one stack whereas the icyveins guide just lists crushing blow above rampage no matter what

also roar > crushing blow on icyveins but not on wowhead

[jade swan]

Ty so much gonna try both and see what are the majot differences (if any)... also I miss Odyn's 😦

[earnest canyon]

yeah i noticed small differences so assumed different writers

[earnest canyon]

you can still pick it if you like it

[lofty jay]

me too, they are not so greatly different for AM but for RA I'm quite confused

[jade swan]

I liked it so much, cuz it gave me a 2nd Burst after my big 1st one which is an advantage to use

[earnest canyon]

then pick it, its not like you are in a RWF guild and need to get out every last 0.01% dps

its not a bad talent

[jade swan]

now I need to calculate which points to disregard in order to use it

[earnest canyon]

yeah idk, i removed all the old talent builds I had so cant remember

but I use RA even though AM is recommended as I prefer it

@jade swan you could try asking Archimitros as he does the guides

so he would know off the top of his head

[frank dawn]

If you're playing Thane using Odyn's is a pretty big hit. As Slayer it's smaller, but for both specs it's still bigger than the differences between AM/RA - not quite the same comparison imo

[earnest canyon]

do you know what sort of percentage?

cos im casual as hell, so if it was like 5% but i preferred it, id take that

if its more, probably not

[frank dawn]

Odyn's is also kind of a talent clusterfuck at the moment with how strong VC became in this patch. Trying to pick up OF comes with a really high cost - regardless of it's garbage tuning.

[frank dawn]

I only ran a few sims, but for me as Thane it was 3-4% loss on ST and like 7-8% loss on 5 targets

For Slayer it was 3-4% loss on ST and 1% loss on AoE

[earnest canyon]

@jade swan I found a screenshot of my old thane build from wowhead

[earnest canyon]

ah ok, then I probs wouldnt take it on thane

but im not playing it anyway, im just using the builds from wowhead

i do miss the extra button though

[frank dawn]

yeah the argument is fine to take on Slayer - if you're playing Slayer anyway. But Thane seems to be completely dumping on Slayer in any AoE sooooo

idk lol

without the Bladestorm/OF burst being really strong the Slayer burst window just...isn't that bursty compared to Thane.

[earnest canyon]

i dont really like slayer anyway

[frank dawn]

fair enough

[fervent yoke]

Slayer good in raids

unless it’s like a silken court fight

[earnest canyon]

reason I asked was just in the past, on like mage and hunter, some people think they absolutely must use the recommended talents and there is no flexibility or they will lose 20% dps or something....when a lot of the time its a less than 1% dps unless they totally make up their own build

[fervent yoke]

Yeah for sure that is true

[earnest canyon]

so if you are a casual, changing one or 2 points doesnt make that much diff

[frank dawn]

I think this perfectly applies to RA/AM - difference is quite small for either hero spec

But OF just been taken out back so hard, that one's a bit rough lol

[earnest canyon]

Yeah that is fair....and thanks for the percentage info

[south kayak]

It's neutral now

[earnest canyon]

For me fun > dps, but getting close to 10% is a lot

[south kayak]

They overshot the buff tbh

thinking the nerf was gonna be worse than it was

[earnest canyon]

is BM still strong? I had a little play on my hunter over the weekend for the first time in ages, and it didnt feel that strong....and it sims less than my warr, but ofc i dont have the new tier set

warrior is 11 ilevels lower and seems to do more dps

[frank dawn]

idk how strong that tier bonus is after nerfs, but if that adjustment alone was about equal to 5% that seems pretty big for them

meanwhile fury tier bonuses

[earnest canyon]

yeah....is that usually a fury thing? Like the set bonus does fuckall? Or was it just this tier?

I had this warrior parked for like 6 years

[frank dawn]

we've had pretty shit tier bonuses overall in DF and TWW so far

[earnest canyon]

😢

[frank dawn]

Dragonflight S2 and S3 ones were solid, but DF S1 was dog, both TWW bonuses have been dog

[earnest canyon]

i always felt getting full tier should be a decent bump whatever class/spec you are on as it just feels good.....but then not having them can sometimes mean you dont get into raids

at least on pugs

I remember being asked "link tier"

[frank dawn]

that's mostly a non issue these days imo since they finally become reasonable about the catalyst

[earnest canyon]

for raszageth?

yeah im glad they changed that

[frank dawn]

but yeah it was for sure frustrating in the past

[earnest canyon]

the hardcore players get tier super fast anyways, so it just gates casual players that cant play as much anyway

[frank dawn]

right

[earnest canyon]

so its like a double kick in the teeth

[chilly fractal]

The ticket to people asking about tier is just lie

[south kayak]

Their tier set is about 17% or something after nerfs lmfao

[chilly fractal]

In my experience hardly anybody looks

[earnest canyon]

oh I did that many times, and you are right 😛

[gusty compass]

Is there any Spellreflect guide for the new raid that we can look at? ❤️

[frank dawn]

after nerfs? what in the unholy fuck is that lmao

[chilly fractal]

Is the google doc not updated?

[gusty compass]

Dont know, can someone link it? or is it on pin or somewhere?

[earnest canyon]

lmao he is right, I had no idea it was so high
https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/hunter/beast-mastery/tier-set-bonuses

[south kayak]

It's crazy

[chilly fractal]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vQQCkBEkOadsvO4sTphB1RwzC6Z_3kq00IFaBrCk5Eagz2Jeoox7D7Rk3XwXMINbh4lUg9Vr-3RgoB2/pubhtml

[south kayak]

Fire mage is close

[gusty compass]

Thanks mate!

[south kayak]

of course it would be when it increases uptime of Combust by a lot

[frank dawn]

fury warrior btw

3% tier bonus gains btw

love it btw

[south kayak]

Yeah

I don't mind that

but it has it's issues

[earnest canyon]

I think its cos of pets and hunter double dips on some stuff

[south kayak]

and advantages

[frank dawn]

yeah I mean, I don't really care especially when it doesn't matter at all for gameplay basically no matter how it's tuned

[south kayak]

Lets see why BM's set is so good

Potent Mutagen does a good amount of damage

[frank dawn]

but the blizzard has never shown themselves to respond correctly to early data in this regard

[south kayak]

and it gives u cdr on beastial wrath

that combination is insane

[south kayak]

Yeah i'd rather have a strong tier set that actually changes how I play

than a shitty one that does nothing

[earnest canyon]

yeah it feels like it might be perma up on fast pulling large packs

but no clue

i dont find BM very fun to play

[frank dawn]

I messed around with BM a bit on PTR and the cdr was nutty, which was nerfed here, but still

and yeah I just can't get into BM gameplay

[earnest canyon]

i played it for 2 xpacs cos it was easy and had full mobility, and i tried ret (was ok), rogue (breaks my hands), feral (dont like bleeds and ramp and its always "cant u tank").....never really thought about warrior tbh but had one sat there

fury flows really really nice, at least to me

[frank dawn]

most people agree fury flows really well

just people getting bored that our gameplay loop is essentially unchanged since DF launch, and most of our capstone talents continue to be dog water

[earnest canyon]

yeah that is something I did notice....capstones dont seem to be like class defining, whereas on BM for example you either smash aoe or ST and the usage is a huge dps incrase

but then maybe its more flexible? idk....i just do what wowhead tells me mostly

[frank dawn]

Bladestorm, RA/AM, and OF are all pretty defining abilities IMO. But I think where the system is really failing is the follow-up nodes

Unhinged is strong and cool, basically nothing else matters and/or is super, super weak

and then currently, you have the additional problem that OF is also weak lol

[earnest canyon]

yeah idk why they dont just buff it so its actually a choice

you still waste a gcd to use it

[fading sky]

Of + os capstones capstones on clasd tree are also bad

[earnest canyon]

i feel the warrior tree has a lot of "fiddling" where its like 2% here, 1% there, extends duration etc etc

so i have found it very hard to know what you guys are talking about sometimes

OF is obviously not, but the rest of it just feels like tweaking and fiddling mostly

*some of the rest

[dense elbow]

While unhinged is cool and all, it also really hampers how much damage BS can do as a button, vs the value of Bloodthirst. And bloodthirst must be tuned with unhinged in mind.

I don't mind unhinged, it just kinda starts to strangle both abilities.

Now, an easy fix for BS would to have the choice node be raw BS damage - for AoE option. And Unhunged being the ST. Problem is that Unhinged is BT, and BT can proc AoE...

And the wheels of the buss go round and round

[fading sky]

Another note, bladestorm needs a buff

[dense elbow]

BS gets buffed by BT being stronger, ask for BT buffs

[earnest canyon]

bladestorm is a defining warrior ability yeah

[frank dawn]

the balance of unhinged vs BT felt pretty good in season 1 to me

but then yeah, they went and buffed BT/BB by 40% lol

[fading sky]

@frank dawn atm it aint

[frank dawn]

and bladestorm is sadge

[fading sky]

Bladestorm got hit coz of of

[earnest canyon]

yeah I play thane so its ravager whoch I hate....in diablo i loved playing barbarian and just being a whirling death machine

[dense elbow]

You mean titan's torment, I hope

[fading sky]

Now of gone, gimme big bladestorn

Rav feels great on arms, meh on fury

[frank dawn]

Slayer really delivers on everything I want my Fury Warrior to be when OF and Bladestorm were both strong

but outside of Patchwerk it seems hard to pick Slayer atm

[fading sky]

I mean adds still gotta go

[dense elbow]

BS is still 10% of your damage overall with AM, it is strong, depending on where you put the bar

[fading sky]

True

[dense elbow]

That is not including the unhinged value

[frank dawn]

yeah, but we're leaving Nerubar palace and it's ridiculous add design behind lol

[fading sky]

I saw 4 bosses with adds

[earnest canyon]

arent most of the new fights add fights?

[fading sky]

Rets gonna kill em though

[frank dawn]

I really have no idea what the adds look like in the raid, and even from PTR who knows what I might have changed

[dense elbow]

I think us here right now just got to accept: Burst Fury is dead and gone

[frank dawn]

but regardless it doesn't seem close to what Nerubar was lol

[earnest canyon]

ive just watched some tldr video so no clue

[fading sky]

Many potential thane pad fights

[frank dawn]

yeah I mean if the adds are more long lived or whatever, Thane blasts. I'm not really worried about Thane overall, but I do feel like Slayer's place is extremely hard to find at the moment

Thane burst is pretty similar to Slayer when you don't have OF. Single target is barely behind if you're playing cleave specs. Thane has better large scale and sustained aoe, and has better defensives. idk lol

[fading sky]

Am slayer fucks in st

[earnest canyon]

i just thought that slayer, from the name and the talent tree tooltips, would make execute the hardest hitting ability overall as you have to wait for staks (or try to)

but it just feels like a warrior with no thane

[mighty bolt]

Not that many adds to pad on tbh. Like first boss has some, Cauldron has none, Rik Reverb has like 3-4 targets occasionally that need to be burst down, Bunkjunker has some adds but no clue how stacked/cleavable they will be exactly, Sprocketmonger is full st, Bandit is basically always st post-rework, Mug'zee has like one add you can cleave with the boss occasionally

[frank dawn]

yeah for sure, the pure single target Slayer build is a good bit ahead of Thane. But I'm not sure how often the pure single target builds are really at play ya know?

[earnest canyon]

interesting, thanks

[mighty bolt]

And Gally we don't know exactly, like he has some but not Queen levels of pad town yknow

[fading sky]

Bladrstorm still aoe

[mighty bolt]

np

[fading sky]

But slayers aoe is giga hurt by of nerf and having to take sd

[frank dawn]

eh the execute buff makes me not that sad about SD, but OF being so bad really cut down Slayer burst potential

[frank dawn]

altho it would be interesting if the add design is enough that Bladestorm can carry it while you're single target? That could be cool, but I'm not sure that would actually happen

[fading sky]

Its enuff pad

[south kayak]

I think they should keep OF in the gutter for now and giga buff BS

so we have some aoe burst

if we have too many aoe cds

[fading sky]

Same

[south kayak]

our burst is gonna go back to palace again

that's a no from me

[frank dawn]

yeah I could get behind just buffing Bladestorm and fixing OF/Onslaught along with some other talent stuff later

Culling Cyclone can also be part of that equation since it's uber trash atm lol

[dense elbow]

They clearly flattening our profile on purpose

the talents are weak on purpose

That is clear

[south kayak]

I talked about this yesterday. I think they should completely remove Culling Cyclone as it is now becuase we already have a talent buffing BS in ST with Unhinged

Do we really need 2?

Culling could just be a buff to BS' damage in general

and remove the other node

[frank dawn]

yeah I don't care if they redesign it or whatever, as long as it makes Bladestorm better

[south kayak]

true

Art, did you know about this Ret bug

[dense elbow]

But BS is already 10%+ of your total DPS

[south kayak]

making them giga

[dense elbow]

where do you want it?

[south kayak]

Is it

[earnest canyon]

what bug?

[frank dawn]

I do not know any ret bugs

[south kayak]

Divine Hammer one

[dense elbow]

Their Divine hammer keeps going for too long, is all

dont worry about it

[earnest canyon]

I tried ret with that templar hero build and its miserable to play to me

[south kayak]

Although the initial three bugs are detrimental to the output of Divine Hammer, the ability for its ticks to proc Radiant Glory - something that was not present on the PTR to the best of my knowledge - more than compensates for them and drastically drives up Ret’s performance by allowing for absurdly long Crusade durations under a string of lucky procs.

[south kayak]

it's not jsut that, it procs radiant glory

that is insane

[earnest canyon]

ret could do enh damage but i still dont enjoy it

[dense elbow]

I enjoyed Ret before the hero talents hit

[earnest canyon]

yeah it was alright then....it was the only melee i kept geared as an alt

[jade swan]

that's the one I've been using in S1. it was so awsome even in my raids, (4/8M ) 🙂

[south kayak]

I don't care for ret, just talking about this bug

[earnest canyon]

plus i could tank on it

[dense elbow]

Went from big button do dam, to 100s of mods with buttons that try to do too much with damage spread out like so little butter on so much bread

aint fun

[fading sky]

Ret is fun,turn of brain go to top of meter

[earnest canyon]

i feel the opposite, maybe i am just dumb 😛

too many buttons

[jade swan]

you have been so helpful. I am so grateful 🌹

[south kayak]

that makes it boring to me

[earnest canyon]

i try...but im learning too....still a warrior newb

[fading sky]

I mean depends. My brain is tired i like ret

My brain is alive. Ret is dumb

[jade swan]

it was my first time to play serious with my warrior in S1 TWW and I scored 3k without a premade, that's why I am so into it tbh. I like it so much

[earnest canyon]

ret i look at my abilities and its "divine bell" "divine storm" "divine hammer" "divine justice" "divine dinner for two"

[earnest canyon]

thats great!

[dense elbow]

Warrior is prob the most fun class, Fury the most fun of 3 fun specs

W is for Warrior after all

[earnest canyon]

yeah i cant believe i slept on warrior for so long....literally ignored it

[jade swan]

it is also a calss where you can get almost everything done easily with, Unlike other classes...

[earnest canyon]

well my experience was the opposite....i played it a lot in classic and tbc, and it was painful as hell to level and very very gear dependent

[dense elbow]

Many deny the fact that the fantasy of "fighter" isnt really that boring when you get over the "it is vanilla, booo! I want magic out of my ass"

[earnest canyon]

modern warrior is cool as hell though

[thin cliff]

oh it wasn't always the case, for sure. But warrior is extremely self-sufficient, has been for a long time

[earnest canyon]

yeah i didnt realise this

tbh there are also like 39 specs now too.....so something has to be there that you dont play, even if you play wow as a job

[jade swan]

I solo elites/quests (party of 5)...etc without any struggle... direct burst wise, he's the king imo....

[earnest canyon]

for me it was priest, warr, lock, evoker, monk

[thin cliff]

Yep, there's very very little I can't just solo as fury - and for that, there's prot

[earnest canyon]

yeah the amount of sustain is nuts to me

[barren dagger]

how does severed strands work? it's a raid nerf basically that permanently buffs your character?

[earnest canyon]

if you mean the 18% buff in nerubar (cant remember the name) then yes

[barren dagger]

so if you can't get CE, your whole roster gets an 18% buff?

[frank dawn]

it's all tied to the individual player, you kill bosses, turn in things, get buff inside the current raid

doesn't really matter which bosses you've killed, and it doesn't matter to you what anyone else has done

[barren dagger]

and this counts for logs?

[frank dawn]

yes

[barren dagger]

okay seems odd

[earnest canyon]

not sure if you can turn it off? But I dont care about logs and I need all the help I can get lmao

[jade swan]

that 18% buff does not count in logs (correction)

but it shows in your current fight

[earnest canyon]

so everyone just has it then?

[dense elbow]

Urgh, they prob using that as an excuse to hide mods that boost their archeon's

._.

[earnest canyon]

i feel I got it by accident....I wasnt actively trying for it, I just saw the "?" at the start and handed shit in

[jade swan]

not everyone, it is for every player who has collected the weekly ones and turned them

[barren dagger]

ok anyways it becomes relevant only at the very end of a tier i suppose

for guilds to progress

[dense elbow]

That aura buff makes it so insanely hard to get motivated to go into raiding late. Holey. Having to farm the damage buff sounds godaweful.

[jade swan]

that was the whole idea of it for guild's/pugs of 4/8M like in my case to help kill faster

[barren dagger]

i've only cleared the raid once on normal and have 11% buff already

[earnest canyon]

i got stuck at 6/8 and we gave up and just went casual and i stopped playing for a month or 2....then came back on warrior and just pug stuff and dont really care, and its been really fun. Like a diff game

[jade swan]

I am not a mythic raider and never has been since 2005. I only tried mythic raids in DF first 2 Bosses and 4/8M in TWW S1

just for the vault

[dense elbow]

Could be only 1 LFR run in essence. It is still another block in the blockade of getting motivated to raid

Put one quest infront of content, and I likely wont do it

[barren dagger]

s2 im playing arms or fury? i seen we just got nerfed again

just gonna get 3k and 4/8m

[dense elbow]

Whatever you prefer

[jade swan]

it's so fun and different tactics for pugs. the only down thing in this game is the boosting services is everywhere now which I hate. and on the otherhand thank God for WCL where you can check everyone's logs

[quiet breach]

how many dungeons are in mythic s2?

[frank dawn]

specs are really close in most regards honestly, just play the one you like

[jade swan]

it's gonna be 8 every season I guess

[quiet breach]

oh nice that's plenty

[barren dagger]

alright thanks im gonna roll with fury at first cause it's so much easier

[dense elbow]

Wonder how much DPS I am going to do, if I play Slayer, but Ravager in M+

[frank dawn]

[barren dagger]

jesus arms just got another execute nerf?

[south kayak]

Another?

you mean an execute nerf

[barren dagger]

yeah sorry i thought it was in addition

it is the one from 2 days ago

that goes live tomorrow i guess

on NA

[coarse nest]

Yeah -15% exe so far

[dense elbow]

BS is 800k dam, 3.4 sec. Ravager is 700k dam, but allows me to do a 820k dam worth in a RB.
Is it one or two globals BS locks out?

Lets pray it aint 2

Might actually not be that big of a DPS loss

[fading sky]

3?

[sullen dove]

Bs is not 800k dam man

and yeah let’s just ignore all the other buffs and shit bs does

[sullen dove]

like the 10% dmg taken increase

wow tooltip yippee

slayer without bs is the biggest brainrot

[dense elbow]

You get the %buff from BTing reap too

Ye, it is brainrot

[sullen dove]

Yea once every 15 seconds

[frank dawn]

the tooltip doesn't account for the 3 extra strikes I'm pretty sure, also

[dense elbow]

Well, cause it aint built up

[frank dawn]

even if you have the buff

[fading sky]

Slayer bladestorm needs to fuck

[dense elbow]

it does

[fading sky]

In st

[frank dawn]

I mean unhinged does make it fuck pretty hard in ST

[red berry]

it doesnt iirc account for it in the tooltip with all 3 stacks

[sullen dove]

you also get one every 30 seconds

[dense elbow]

Well, Unhinged doesnt make BS fuck, Rav fucks just as well if not more

[sullen dove]

ragebait used to be believable

[dense elbow]

As Rav doesnt lose the actual dam

more BTs and RBs

[red berry]

i think they just want bladestorm to do more damage

[frank dawn]

ehhh, I mean Unhinged Bladestorm gets double value for Slayer because the extra ticks

[red berry]

which bladestorm could probably safely revert all of the nerfs at this point

[south kayak]

buffing Execute is not gonna break anything

[red berry]

and it still wouldnt overtake

[dense elbow]

Execute aint that far behind RB, another 50% and it would make AJ-mas M+ build do close to equal dam to the RB focused one. Could even pan out to be better overall

The SS stack loss is the real problem

Just remove SS from RB or put SS on everything

[frank dawn]

slaughtering needs to be nerfed anyway so that builds can focus less on RB if they want, and we desperately need 1-2 talent points we can drop in the middle of the tree lol

[south kayak]

true

[red berry]

what would you compensate for the loss of SS damage thougg

[south kayak]

Buffing Rampage?

[red berry]

more rotational buffs?

[dense elbow]

More Ramp/BT/RB dam

ofc

[south kayak]

pretty straightforward

[red berry]

yeah

[south kayak]

no, just rampage

[dense elbow]

No, all of it

[south kayak]

please do not touch all the rotational abilities anymore

[dense elbow]

We will make sure the profile is flat and only those 3 buttons, or so help me Elune I will smite you!

[red berry]

lmao

[inner zinc]

Id rather they just add execute to SS

[frank dawn]

nerf Slaughtering, nerf RB, nerf BT just a little. Throw a nice aura buff at the spec to bring the talented shit back into the picture

OF would still be bad tho XD

[red berry]

ive said that before and so have others but archi is against it

[south kayak]

Just easier to remove SS

and buff rampage

[dense elbow]

Just grant OF tenderise :Chatting:

[quiet geyser]

Execute doesnt neeed to be tied to slaughtering, it just needs to hit so hard that it's your clear priority whenever you can use it

[frank dawn]

I don't really want Slaughtering added to execute, because looking at Slayer who could maybe like to take some execute talents you need talent points to spend

if Slayer could safely skip slaughtering that would give you a talent point to spend

[south kayak]

you can buff Execute as much as you want, it's not going to come close to the value of RB and all the thigns it does

it needs to be cut off

[dense elbow]

Well, if so - execute must do more damage than Raging Blow* or BT with all their mods combined and converted to raw dam. And that is a lot of mods.

[south kayak]

Rampage should do the most damage by far

Execute second, BT 3rd and then rb as filler

[inner zinc]

Execute cant ever do that kind of dmg if it generates rage IMO

[frank dawn]

and then OF can do as much damage as one VC Bloodthirst

[south kayak]

I miss BfA

[frank dawn]

XDXDXDXDXDXD

[dense elbow]

OF should be the hardest hitting, followed by OS, Rampage, BT, RB, slam

[south kayak]

BfA fury was the perfect rotation

in terms of prio

[dense elbow]

RB beating out OF is a crime

"but AoE" be damned

[south kayak]

yeah we get it

OF sucks

we've been through that

[frank dawn]

we must shout the magnitude of it's suck to the heavens and beyond

[dense elbow]

^

[south kayak]

if they put SS to everything

[frank dawn]

https://tenor.com/view/starwars-outrageous-unfair-gif-10552482

[south kayak]

they're gonna nerf SS

[dense elbow]

And not a single tear was shed

[frank dawn]

even if SS was nerfed Thane would still take it, because it gives no fucks to execute

and I don't think that's really a problem tbh

[south kayak]

I do

[fervent yoke]

I forgot OF existed

[dense elbow]

The problem is when bladestorm is less dam than Rav, and execute is less than RB or BT. If not, you would just have execute be a talent option for "adds spawn every 45 sec" kind of niche.

Execute not being the press in execute phase is failed design

[south kayak]

So did Blizzard

[frank dawn]

[earnest canyon]

agree with this 100%, its literally part of warriors identity

[dense elbow]

They clearly did not forget it, they nerfed it time and time again.

[earnest canyon]

i thought slayer would make execute the button to press always

but nah, fucking raging blow

always

[dense elbow]

Ye, when Execute is a "if X Y and Z" conditional in the spec that buffs it... then it is really aweful

[south kayak]

Archi posted some ideas regarding Execute for Slayer

Like making Slayer's Malice buff execute instead of OP or RB

[dense elbow]

If it buffs exe by 30%, sure it is a net gain, but it wont make you want to press exe more

[south kayak]

Which, again, the fact that it doesn't buff Execute already is insane to me

[south kayak]

I'm fine with us building up a big execute with 3x stacks of MfE

[dense elbow]

Exe already "big" when you do that

[south kayak]

but it should do more damage than BT/ RB

[dense elbow]

so you are happy

[south kayak]

not more than BT or RB

in a full fight

[dense elbow]

With 3 stacks and crit? Sure it does.
Ah you mean overall?

[south kayak]

overall yes

[dense elbow]

Exe being 10% aint good enough for ya?

[earnest canyon]

no, i want it so if you pick slayer, and you get to execute percentage, you spam that shit and jump the meters

warrior niche

but im a simple minded person

[south kayak]

No

[dense elbow]

Then you dont want flat

Fury is flat now, that is life

[south kayak]

It should be Rampage then Execute

then RB BT

[earnest canyon]

flat is fine outside of execute

[dense elbow]

If exe dam portion go up, the flat portion must go down to stay balanced

[earnest canyon]

only if you spec into slayer with the right talents....so its a choice

[dense elbow]

It already does bump execute up, tho

[earnest canyon]

not enough....but im not exactly geared and/or skilled

my top ability on dmg is always RB

er rampage

[dense elbow]

Dont worry, I am on your side of the execute argument. But as it is designed, they kinda dont want you to press exe on CD. But when conditionals line up for it.

Makes no sense to me that SD procs pop, and you are not supposed to feel "hell yea! SUDDEN DEATH!"

but instead go "hm, nope, not yet"

That is terrible design

[earnest canyon]

agree

anyway, other than that, fury is really fun

[molten night]

i enjoy fury, the rotation flows.

dosen't clog the pipes

[earnest canyon]

always having something to press is fun

[inner zinc]

Its kinda hilarious that prot execute hits so much harder than ours. So much so they had hotfix nerf it for pvp

[lean heart]

fellas how important is this is it enough to track bloodcraze?
like can i just hit BT on cd?

[south kayak]

You can do anything

[warm crag]

you can safely ignore bloodcraze conditionals for at most a 0.2% dps loss

[south kayak]

you have free will

See

free will

[warm crag]

if you want to play around it it's there but i will not be doing that

[south kayak]

so you'll be using BT on cd

?

[lean heart]

ok good

[glass kelp]

hey guys, for the **Slayer **M+ build, do i charge and then pop cds or the other way around?

[feral ivy]

Way off topic but anyone live in the states in the north bordering Canada

[night wigeon]

Hi, quick question. Do I need 2 sparks of Fortunes to recraft my 2H ? Or just 1 ?

[south kayak]

You need 2

[night wigeon]

Ok ty

Sad

[frank dawn]

Crafted 2h is a week slower this time isn’t it?

[night wigeon]

I dont think so

[frank dawn]

Ok yeah you’re right. Brain was being dumb

[south kayak]

[whole relic]

[sage smelt]

Michigan here

[feral ivy]

Just to be nosey did you get a notification saying your power going out tomorrow?

[sage smelt]

Nothing that I've seen?

[feral ivy]

Oooo then I wonder if Canada is going to actually cut power

[jolly jungle]

so at the same gs, is the s2 set better than s1 for fury?

[dawn locust]

With the execute nerf tomorrow will that bring fury and arms more in line with their overall dmg making both competitive and viable? Or is there still expected to be a decent gap between the 2 specs

[dense elbow]

Actually kinda works

even makes OF look kinda solid

[warm crag]

if you're talking raid you're probably gonna play both depending on the fight

if m+ idk who cares go reroll a caster

[naive fog]

Is fury going to be giga broken or should I just play arms

[dense elbow]

Fury wont be giga broken, so guess you go arms

[naive fog]

I mostly run M+

[naive fog]

Sad

[warm crag]

arms is probs better for m+ but if you want a giga broken spec just come back in a month and look at whos clearing the highest key and reroll that

[dense elbow]

Then a month after that, after another tuning pass

[dawn locust]

raid and m+, mainly raid. for aotc dont really care what beats what but pushing ce so would be nice to get a feel for which of the 2 will be better for specific fights, although id prefer to just play fury, arms sucks

[warm crag]

just go look at what better ppl played on each boss if you're just trying to push ce

but even then just play what you prefer

[barren dagger]

we never using spear in s2?

[unreal onyx]

If not rwf spec doesnt really make or break a comp

[dawn locust]

Yeah let me do that with the bosses not being out

[warm crag]

you dont need to know what is best rn lol

unless you're planning to kill world first bosses

[naive fog]

Thanks boss arms it is

[warm crag]

again you're playing at a level where its more importan tto play a spec you like/enjoy/are proficient at, than it is to chase meta

[unreal onyx]

Noooo its impossible to kill a boss if I don't play the spec with 5k dps higher output

[hybrid summit]

Thunder Clap glyph works for Fury now

[dawn locust]

500-800k difference is enough to want to put in effort in a different spec, which is what arms was before the nerf incoming, it had a big dmg gap and was worth learning to push mythic early

Thats why I was asking as I havent really seen anything from ptr on the dmg differences now

[warm crag]

im unaware of a 500k-800k dps gap between any specs in the game right now

[next ruin]

in the first 8 fights is there any one where we use the full ST build ? or for now it's raid MT for every single boss ?

[south kayak]

How many fights are there in the raid

[radiant plank]

arms vs fury in execute phase

[warm crag]

real

[radiant plank]

sprocketmonger os full st

[barren dagger]

looks like the sprocketmonger boss is ST

[radiant plank]

rik is full st

[next ruin]

8 so the 7 first my bad

[barren dagger]

why is wowhead saying use MT on rik

[alpine palm]

Why is Arms being touted as being better than Fury? Neither in testing in dungeons/target dummies nor in sims can I see a substantial difference in DPS

[next ruin]

there seems to be pillar to cleave, but they also seem far away from melee, maybe melee should just stick to the boss

[alpine palm]

Looking at 5 targets over 5 minutes there's a difference of 60k dps. 4.060 for arms vs 4.000 for Fury

[young swan]

execute phase

thats basically it

[next ruin]

uncapped aoe

[radiant plank]

Arms does around 500k more dps than fury inside the execute phase

in a 3 min sim

[young swan]

in reality they are very close, but there are a few fights in undermine that have dedicated 40-0% phases

[quiet breach]

can u earn cutting edge just doing whatever

[alpine palm]

Wym? Cleave deals reduced dmg beyond 5 just like Fury I though

[gilded pawn]

Fury is essentially hard 5

Cleave is soft 5

[warm crag]

ye

[young swan]

fury has most of its damage hard capped at 5

[gilded pawn]

And the bleeds you apply is true uncapped

[next ruin]

every spell in the game does reduce damage in aoe, fury hits only 5

[alpine palm]

Huh.....I played about a million hours of Fury war and didn't know this. Which abilities deal 0 damage to 6th target

[gilded pawn]

All of them

[young swan]

every rotational ability

only our damaging cooldowns deal damage beyond 5

[dense elbow]

and WW*

[young swan]

roar, spear, bladestorm, OF

[gilded pawn]

Show /played

[alpine palm]

So like Thunder Clap says reduced beyond 5. Does it actually mean 0 damage beyond 5 in Fury?

[radiant plank]

someone take a dented emote but make the dent bigger and call it furybrain

[young swan]

oh and thunderclap

but tclap doesnt actually account for very much of our damage anymore

[next ruin]

thunderclap hits everything, but the meatcleaver stacks you get from it hit only 4 targets, so 5

[alpine palm]

ok 1 million may have been an exaggeration

[quiet breach]

can u just go slayer for all content if u want

[young swan]

after ramp, bt, rb, execute got buffed by 50%

or whatever the total number ended up being

[quiet breach]

or is it SIGNIFICANTLY worse in some encounters in raid/m+

than thane

[young swan]

absolutely

[dense elbow]

got me beat

[earnest canyon]

aoe in wow is either hard capped, soft capped, or square root scaling....across all classes

[young swan]

the only content slayer will stop you from doing is WF keys, maybe title keys

[alpine palm]

I dont get it. Why was Fury warrior so exceptional in Raid then? Rash and Brood have > 5

but that's the fights where Fury shined

[quiet breach]

what's a wf and title key

[alpine palm]

ty

[gilded pawn]

Soft cap and square root is the same thing

[radiant plank]

windfury

[earnest canyon]

how so?

[young swan]

bladestorm, of, roar are all only softcapped. the changes in 11.1 shifted our damage from CDs into rotational abilities that are hardcapped

[alpine palm]

Ahh that makes sense now

[young swan]

all of our damage on those fights came from bladestorm, of, and roar

[alpine palm]

Since RA is the build now with no Bladestorm

[earnest canyon]

soft cap is damage split across all targets, square root is split by smaller and smaller amounts as more targets are added

[south kayak]

Soft cap is not split

[young swan]

thats not the case

[alpine palm]

You got a spicy build for me?

[vagrant mica]

also what changed from mid season 1 to now that basically every version of arms/fury is playing anger management vs. RA

[alpine palm]

Im referring to M+ if that matters

[vagrant mica]

stopped playing around december came back and was surprised by that

[gilded pawn]

No that’s not soft cap

[young swan]

should go check out wowhead or maxroll

[alpine palm]

Derp I meant Anger Management

apologies

[gilded pawn]

There’s nothing soft about it

[earnest canyon]

did they change this?
https://www.wowhead.com/guide/shadowlands-target-capped-abilities-uncapped-capped-spells

[young swan]

you still play bladestorm/ravager with unhinged in all content

[quiet breach]

back when ppl went RA instead of anger management were they tracking bloodbath stacks and crushing blows?

[gilded pawn]

You do the same damage to 1 as 5

[alpine palm]

Unhinged content

[gilded pawn]

Nothing soft about that

[alpine palm]

But ye Im running the Wowhead build

[quiet breach]

@vagrant mica

[celest grove]

hello guys where can i get weakauras

[earnest canyon]

wago.io

https://wago.io/

[young swan]

looks like crits, u have to sub to him on twitch and join his discord i believe

[earnest canyon]

oh a particular weak aura? my bad sorry

[young swan]

answering both questions is good

who knows what he means

now he has both answers

[night wigeon]

Question about the Wowhead guide. The opener section for ST says 'Reck-Avatar' => Charge => Rampage... But I don’t get it—how can I have 80 rage just from Charge ?

[edgy widget]

if you read it it says why

[edgy widget]

if you read right above that it tells you

[night wigeon]

Yes and I dont understand why

Mb cause my english is too bad

[night wigeon]

I'll take a better look

[edgy widget]

Reck doubles rage generation, Charge and Avatar generate rage

[night wigeon]

Oh I'm so stupid..i'm doing Avatar => Reck...I guess that's why

Thank you for your answer

[celest grove]

I don't know, I had one similar to this named Khakhan, but I can't find it on Wagio anymore

[olive wraith]

Khakhan was there last night when I was looking

[dense fulcrum]

i usually do charge reck avatar because sometime if i do reck avatar charge i dont have rage (same talents of wowhead)

[edgy widget]

not sure what you mean by don't have rage, but Reck first will always generate more

[dense fulcrum]

like i dont have rage for rampage

[edgy widget]

the only time you don't want to do that is if you're worried that the boss may move around on the pull, because losing uptime isn't worth it

[dense fulcrum]

i need to wait a sec

for auto attacks to proc

dunno why

[edgy widget]

Ok, well doing Reck after Charge is going to guarantee you don't have enough rage
Reck first is better (above caveat notwithstanding)

or if you're running RA, since it generates an extra 50 rage, there's no need to Reck before Charge

[dense fulcrum]

no im using AM

like u guys suggested in wowheads

[edgy widget]

idk what you want me to say, but what you're suggesting doesn't add up

[celest grove]

I can't find it

[dense fulcrum]

nothing really, just saying i had that issue

[edgy widget]

This is not accurate
i usually do charge reck avatar because sometime if i do reck avatar charge i dont have rage (same talents of wowhead)
Reck -> Charge is demonstrably more rage than Charge -> Reck

so what you're suggesting is completely backwards

[dense fulcrum]

im not suggesting anything tho

[modest condor]

no i know what's happening

[dense fulcrum]

im saying i had a issue xD

[modest condor]

they're using reck avatar before combat starts

so once combat starts their rage gets reset to 20

[edgy widget]

that's only 20 rage without RA, so the reset wouldn't do anything - it would go from 20->20

[dense fulcrum]

probably, that could be an issue idk

[edgy widget]

you are, you said "Reck -> Charge didn't give me enough rage, so I swapped to Charge -> Reck"
which is backwards

[dense fulcrum]

oh wait

ur right lol

[edgy widget]

le surprise

[dense fulcrum]

i actually do reck avatar charge

nvm my brain is doomed

tonight

[edgy widget]

yeah, as long as the boss doesn't get yoinked around on the pull by shitty tanks, that's what you wanna do
if they are moving across the room for w/e reason, then hold your CDs and double charge or charge -> leap then pop them

[dense fulcrum]

i watched a replay and i do like u said

nvm mb