fury

[open prairie]

before we talk punishing

[marble schooner]

Idk I think another spec being more punishing doesnt absolve SPriest of being considerable too punishing for M+

thats just whataboutism

[open prairie]

🤷‍♂️

ranged in m+

is actually braindead as shit

Literally nothing happens out in bumfuck

[marble schooner]

I agree yeah

but idk maybe ranged difficulty should lie on positioning and windows of oportunity rather than punishing rotations where the punishment is you dont get to do any damage for the rest of the pack

sounds counterintuitive to the idea that a game is supposed to be fun

[open prairie]

fun and m+

uhhh

[marble schooner]

M+ is supposed to be fun, it just happens that many times it isnt

[open prairie]

Yeah i sure enjoy doing the same mechanic 20000x a season

The worst part of m+ is the playerbase.

[fading sky]

I dno man, i meet mostly nice ppl

Once in a while u meet shitty ppl.

[marble schooner]

I mean that's the whole shtick of Speedrunning

and M+ takes a lot from it

so yeah it could bang and be super mega fun

[undone flower]

tbh most that talk are nice yes, the ones that leave the key say nothing 99% of the time so it is not "toxic"

[fading sky]

Yeah, but again i just play 10s-11s

[marble schooner]

in my experience the worst, most toxic players are common on pisslow keys

like 5-8s

that shit is radioactive

[undone flower]

and it's always the guys who insults the "bad player"

[marble schooner]

at +12 or more ppl start to chill more and handle failure better

[fading sky]

They are pretty bad players esp late in season as welm

At 5-8

[undone flower]

it is normal people are not good in 5-8

it's literrally the entry lvl of keys

[open prairie]

As soon as a tank or healer

has one of those spam chat addons

yeah….

[fading sky]

Tried playing my.
badly geared bdk, was horrid having.

[edgy pumice]

Anyone has an 11.1 talent build for either raid or m+? What hero talent looking stronger?

[marble schooner]

the one that yells eeevery time someone gets hit by avoidable damage

ts is so cringe lmao

[open prairie]

yeah any healer with that

is usually bad

idk why

[marble schooner]

cause they cant accept that maybe they are the problem

[open prairie]

if i wanted to be really toxic i’d just set up a wa

[undone flower]

oh yeah the addons for avoidable damages screams toxic for sure

[open prairie]

that spam whispers to dispel

every second with a dispellable debuff

[marble schooner]

make a WA that's got a hook to not-even-close and every time you die to a boss mechanic that relies on healer it yells "I needed to get healed for X for this mechanic, only got healed for Y"

[south kayak]

The damage taken addon ? Lol

[open prairie]

that one and healerprotection

[fading sky]

Fuck those ppl

[open prairie]

💀

[undone flower]

in lower keys, some dudes scream in /say how much avoidable damage each person took or like if they die it automatically send the death recap to show they didn't get healed

[fading sky]

Kek

[hardy bluff]

people also announce every kick they do

[fading sky]

When ever dps dies. Its almost always their own fault

[undone flower]

it announces after the kick do they know that ???

[open prairie]

its a setting in elv

assuming the kick was successful

[sour frigate]

elitism helper

(shitshow)

[undone flower]

yeah but announcing you are kicking AFTER the kick, what is the use of that info for the group

[fading sky]

Ppl are bad, at using hp, and defensives

[hardy bluff]

yea a few addons have it

[open prairie]

can someone make an addon that spam whispers the tank to turn boss

when i get demolish parried

asking for a friend

[frozen berry]

I mean, if the tank is tanking boss facing the group, then it's a bad tank. That's tanking 101.

[dapper goblet]

madox for yellow

[open prairie]

i mean have you seen some tanks

spend 2 mins yapping about mdt route

dies to white hit 2sec into pack

[fading sky]

Haha

Esp these dungos

[undone flower]

I GOT 2 tanks in 2 days who shame dc

[fading sky]

Press w done

[undone flower]

and 1 healer who shamed dc today, i never saw that

[frozen berry]

wth is 'shame dc'?

[south kayak]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1055196260329590874/1320668978732859402/big2.gif

[undone flower]

when you make the group wipe and then you dc

[fading sky]

I legit had a mist key. We failed without whiping

[frozen berry]

ah

[fading sky]

Had like 26 deaths

[open prairie]

why is there a gif of this every season

[fading sky]

Healer and 2 dpsers kept dieng

[open prairie]

actually there was a prot pala in grim batol

this season

[south kayak]

And it’s always dhs

[dire vigil]

😂

[south kayak]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/148897941883584512/1289315888293744642/rlp.gif

[undone flower]

for example : today the evoker healer couldn't heal the first boss of ara (because he is learning i don't mind failing my key) so after we wiped he dc

[open prairie]

there was a prot pala

alot of vdh players dont realize

if you leap into a pack it syncs up the autos

so if you dont parry rng you die

[south kayak]

Isn’t vdh pretty swishy without some sport of pre defense

Squishy

[sour frigate]

Kinda

Same as prot pall

Same as prot war

[south kayak]

That’s a good point

[fading sky]

This

[south kayak]

I didn’t know that

[sour frigate]

Also u get backhits from leaping iirc

[open prairie]

you want either sigil of flame parry

spikes

brand

something up

[south kayak]

Are backhits still a thing lol

[open prairie]

yes

[south kayak]

Or does that just mean no parry or dodge

[frozen berry]

You can't dodge attacks from behind anymore?

[open prairie]

never have been

[vague trail]

can your ascendance embelishment be on your offhand?

[undone flower]

i think you also need over 0% of dodge to dodge

[open prairie]

isnt bdk the most vulnerable

[undone flower]

or people have basic dodge chance ?

[open prairie]

at first 2-3s of a pack

[undone flower]

it is THE bdk issue from their design

[summer quail]

ofcourse

[open prairie]

no boneshield stacks

[south kayak]

Yeah bdk needs bone shield

[open prairie]

well i guess you can drw tombstone?

off rip

[south kayak]

But tbh that’s not an issue, you should have drw up each pull

[undone flower]

so the first pack of the key, they are crazy weak, and if they die, they are crazy weak for the next pack (and if the key lvl is too high, death strike doesn't heal anymore smh)

[south kayak]

Then use the ranger attack to pull and get shield stacks

[open prairie]

yeah its just funny for new healers

watching bdk healthbars

[frozen berry]

Healing a bdk, and VDH tbh, causes many healers anxiety lol, watching their hp yoyo all over

[open prairie]

vdh isnt as bad

but true

vdhs just love hopping around

[fading sky]

Ye first pulls are scary

[bitter palm]

parry or no parry ahh tank

[clever belfry]

meow

[silver shell]

Do we have any data on %dps increases from the tier sets bonuses?

[radiant plank]

3%

for slayer

in single target

[clever belfry]

6.9/2

[dapper goblet]

madox for yellow

[slim coral]

https://tenor.com/view/caught-in-gif-13858083882417886503

[dapper goblet]

think i said that when cowardcake lowered warrior

[slim coral]

you said it when critcake put fury top of A tier

[dapper goblet]

same thing

not both in s tier

cowardcake

[hardy bluff]

true and take it from crit

[earnest canyon]

mmm....cake

[modest condor]

he should have

i would have ngl

[dapper goblet]

https://tenor.com/view/doubt-it-i-dont-believe-you-will-farrell-anchor-man-gif-5332521

[high echo]

i would say both b tier

[sinful spoke]

opened a timewalking chest

[sullen dove]

da hell

[sullen dove]

how about kalamazis destro in B

no comment there or

[dapper goblet]

yeah lots of sandbaggers in tier lists

can only call out so many people

[left perch]

is critical strike cake good at tier listing normally and this time he just got paid off by big warrior?

[earnest canyon]

I paid him in expired subway vouchers

[dapper goblet]

probably did get paid off

[summer quail]

I tried to pay him off, but he put fury way too high

[left perch]

I just want someone to tier list us high so I can actually get invites to weekly 10 keys

and stop being blue man

[summer quail]

bit ambitious there innit

[left perch]

just want to stop being broken op and play fun brown ok

is that too much to ask

[summer quail]

apparently

[dapper goblet]

fun brown also op broken

shit 1 week entire expansion

[left perch]

define op broken

[frank dawn]

Can we get a mute on Xeos

[left perch]

does damage but not as much as blue man?

[late totem]

sd

[dapper goblet]

2 s tier specs going into goblin vegas

[left perch]

that’s it I’m coming back to warrior

you convinced me

[undone flower]

You know that’s not how that works, people go on archon murlok etc and copy +30 keys comp for their +10

[left perch]

LF disc Aug spriest fdk for weekly 10 (beat timer)

[undone flower]

It’s like the raid will explode 100% if it’s not 2/2/6, 2/3/9 or 2/4/14 mentality kinda

You want to m+, find friends to play the mmorpg with

[left perch]

that’s why I’m either pwar or healer next season ngl

friends mandate need to play something they want or can’t be friends

[undone flower]

Idk people I know don’t care

[left perch]

or like this season just play enha and get lots of invites because archon said so

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[wary fjord]

we can hope enhance gets the treatment fury got this season

2 weeks in murdered

[undone flower]

With mine we play multiple char so we switch who tank etc

[marble schooner]

💜

best part of these swords

[sinful spoke]

is there a doc with sims for gear

[haughty token]

are the raid weapons bis?

and what embellishments are going to be bis next patch

[junior gale]

the weapon is called Bis I would hope so

[haughty token]

well i meant the gallytech one too

[young swan]

both are yeah

prob gonna be taking the vers embellishment

crit is probably also fine

[haughty token]

ok

[left perch]

yep

[orchid iron]

search didnt help sorry in advance- has arch said when the season 2 updates will be on the wowhead guide?

[median marsh]

for 11.1 - is there any chganges to rotation?

[junior gale]

when season 2 launches

[orchid iron]

is that sarcasm (I deserve it) or like literally check next week

[summer quail]

literally check next week

[orchid iron]

ty

[junior gale]

was being serious wowhead guides update on patch release

[winter shoal]

@sudden tusk are you dropping a fury vid like your arms one from today?

[sullen dove]

madox yellow

more effort and interaction than any yellow

madox for blue

madox for green

[covert blaze]

madox for rainbow

[junior gale]

[sudden tusk]

nothing has really changed for fury it plays basically the same. plan on doing a survial guide kinda thing for the patch will go over changes/ builds for both arms and fury

fury is basically the same either way you just play AM Send rampage whenever you can and try to avoid hitting anything but RB BT

[covert blaze]

[gusty compass]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/148898695696482305/1285353121102561311/dead-fury.gif

[ancient jewel]

hey! whats the recommended talents for fury ST when the patch starts? Wanna do some early sims

[devout totem]

https://www.wowhead.com/ptr-2/talent-calc/warrior/fury/slayer/DAOBVVFEFQhIUKpQEBQNVVEVUZVBRKBQRCEQEFVVUBE

and aoe : https://www.wowhead.com/ptr-2/talent-calc/warrior/fury/mountain-thane/DAPAVUFRFQhIVIoUFQBANVVEFUZURRSRQVCQQEFVVUCEQ

[ancient jewel]

ty ❤️

[slate geyser]

will there be new weapon encahnts with s2 or will we use the same?

[hardy bluff]

we will use the same

[slate geyser]

ty

[modern ingot]

Oh we gonna use Anger management in both builds? That’s kinda neat.

[oblique trail]

Assuming a fight allows it, they're both about even

But any bit of downtime and AM will suffer hard

[clever belfry]

@oblique trail hewwo

[oblique trail]

@clever belfrymeowdy

[warm crag]

die AM die

[compact siren]

Banezi actually hasn’t joined vc in 17 years

[warm crag]

outrageous but true

[compact siren]

Just a fact

[warm crag]

check your dms jimmiam

[compact siren]

Ok red sponge

Kind of messed up ngl

[gleaming siren]

@warm crag hello king

[warm crag]

hello

[gleaming siren]

Thank you for guiding me through Sundered Doctrine Contest Mode yesterday

And saving my ass when I perished with no resses left !

[warm crag]

it was You who inflicted the necessary hurt upon the Hive and Dread to achieve vectory!

[gleaming siren]

Hive Give Light (truth)

[compact siren]

Spongie int dungeon (truth)

[warm crag]

Jimmy Jons Jon (lie)

[compact siren]

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-anguish-despair-gif-13915908866750092639

SP (shadow priest) on gie???

Name classer detected

[vernal laurel]

Would spear not be better in single target?

Does anyone know if we prio Bloodthirst > Raging blow when playing AM?

[fervent yoke]

AM is ass I like 1 buttons burst macros

going from fury to arms I feel very bloated

[fervent yoke]

AoE situation you generally prio BT > RB not sure how AM would change prio unless I’m missing something

[vernal laurel]

Yes, wondering specifically abou AM. BT does more damage, but RB buffs rampage, which we are spamming when we talent into AM.

So just a question of math i guess

If the RB rampage buff is better than a BT

[fervent yoke]

Ahh I’m thane so I usually try to get blast procs so I prio BT in AoE most of the time

[vernal laurel]

Yeah I am Thane as well, just never really tried AM before

[south kayak]

For AM you just press rampage as soon as possible

[sand crest]

yo guys, I havent looked much at the PTR, how are the builds looking? are we likely using berserker torment with RA in raid and the new titan's with AM in m+?

[gusty compass]

Does the theory crafters have some kind of work or communications with blizzard devs?

[hardy bluff]

on the wow forums

but i dont think they have direct communication

[edgy widget]

Titan's Torment is hot doo, and right now AM looks like it will be ahead of RA across the board

[sand crest]

that's a shame, getting more rampages for AM felt like it could be good on paper

[gusty compass]

I cant understand why Fury got a nerf when we were not that OP for season 2..

Arms nerf i knew and i think they are getting nerfed one more time.

[oblique trail]

Because on paper we were well ahead of the vast majority of specs

[edgy widget]

it's a nice sounding bonus, but has a few problems

• Reck floods you with rage anyway; you're typically able to use Rampage every other GCD even without Titan's Torment, and there's no use for the excess rage you're saving/not spending
• RA encourages you to maximize Bloodbath/Crushing Blow during Recklessness, rather than Rampage, so the reduced cost is kind of counterproductive
• the Bloodthirst/bath cooldown reduction also seems nice, except longer Reck (via Berserker's Torment) actually gives you more overall Bloodbaths than the reduced cooldown does (and leaves more room to use other abilities in between its cooldown)

[oblique trail]

And even with a 5% nerf, we are still above the average

[gusty compass]

But can they at least make us some fun? Like give us some utility or uncapped or something

[clever belfry]

no

[gleaming siren]

no

[solemn plover]

no

[edgy widget]

how do you know we're not that op for Season 2 yet?

[gusty compass]

Im talking mostly for m+ and i know people will take a arms warrior if they are thinking about them 2

[edgy widget]

Also keep in mind that they buffed rotational abilities (BT/RB/Rampage/Execute) by ~40-50%, then nerfed all dam by 5% to compensate - as a whole, Fury's direct rotational damage is way stronger than it was in S1, though it has come at a small hit to its cooldown driven damage

[oblique trail]

Titan's also just works anti-synergistic with AM, because more Rampages =/= more CDR, because it's based on rage spent

[sand crest]

yeah that makes sense, Im also kinda surprised AM seems ahead of RA across the board, considering the BB and CB buffs we got a few weeks ago, but I guess only getting BB and CB inside reck instead of after every rampage hurt RA

[gusty compass]

Yeah but no one is getting to inv you either way in m+ keys

[sand crest]

oh thats right I forgot about that

[edgy widget]

BT and RB also got giga buffed, but really it's just a matter of "bigger recks vs more recks"

there may be some timing considerations where RA pulls forward though, since AM can be a little wonky

[oblique trail]

Timings, but also just uptime

[edgy widget]

like if you're holding CDs anyway because of a phase or adds or whatever, then AM loses a lot of its luster

[oblique trail]

If a fight punishes uptime then AM will suffer massively

And while RA suffers as well, it's not as reliant on uptime at all times to get its full value

Unless of course a fight allows AM to still win out with the timing, even with downtime or not

[edgy widget]

that's why I say that AM looks like it will be ahead of RA, but that may change

[sand crest]

ty for all the insight guys

also is slayer vs thane the same in s2 as it was in s1? as in slayer in raid, and mt in m+ giving much better aoe dmg but slightly worse ST?

[hardy bluff]

pretty much

[south kayak]

“Small”

Our cds don’t do anything on a single target anymore

TR tickles the boss

[hardy bluff]

so 5% to tr would make it do big dam?

[south kayak]

No

It needs 50%

At least

[hardy bluff]

so it got a small nerf

[south kayak]

Sidearm also needs a big buff

CSHB

BS

[hardy bluff]

sidearm needs to be shot in the head

[south kayak]

True

[hardy bluff]

just random small dam procs noone cares about that

[south kayak]

I want to have some sort of strong aoe button that helps with our capped aoe

But they’re all pretty mid right now

BS, TR, OF

On PTR

[lime perch]

Stay small guys

[lapis shadow]

EU boys

[dense elbow]

Cant get big impactful CDs and have a flat consistent damage profile. It seems like the flat profile is what they are going for, as they are buffing rotationals after nerfing the CDs to the ground.

So, yeah, we will stay smoll

[lapis shadow]

This Wednesday is just delves yes?

And next is m+ etc?

[dense elbow]

Not even delves, just world content. As delves is part of the season start as far as I am aware

Prob some questing in the new zone

[lapis shadow]

I thought delves released 1 week earlier

[dense elbow]

You gonna get your car and drive, woop woop

[lapis shadow]

Poggers

[junior shore]

no m0 with 636 loot either right?

[odd cipher]

nope, at least it shouldn't be

since s1 still be going

[junior shore]

kk thx

[charred estuary]

Is there a slayer m+ build at all or is that like full griefing

[sour frigate]

Its ok until u run keys where packs can live longer than 20 sec

[edgy widget]

5% is pretty small

[indigo arch]

Don't worry, our vast utility was why we got that 5% nerf, such as:

[edgy widget]

no, you got that 5% nerf because you also got a 40-50% buff to BT, RB, Rampage & Execute

80% of your damage got mega buffed
20% of your damage got a minor nerf
Fury is coming out way ahead of where it is in S1

[lapis shadow]

I don't feel like the 5% nerf is at all harsh

[south kayak]

I wasn't referrring to that, I was referring to the small hit to our cd gameplay

[edgy widget]

that small hit is the only thing that happened to your CD gameplay

[indigo arch]

Oh I know full well fury is getting more of a bone, I just want one single time to see fury absolutely SLAP the normal meta shit

[south kayak]

The aoe burst we have right now is completely gone next season

[lapis shadow]

World of Warcraft Classic

[south kayak]

like TR

[clever belfry]

rawrxd

[indigo arch]

Sadly yes, that's p much it

[edgy widget]

again, -5% really ain't that much

[south kayak]

not to mention the countless nerfs to TR, OF and BS

[high echo]

yeah g play classic lmao

[indigo arch]

Mop classic as well

arms cranked in mop

[south kayak]

The fact that TR only does about 1% damage on a boss is laughable to me

that's not a cd

[lapis shadow]

See ya all at Mop classic 🫡

[edgy widget]

that's all it does in S1 too lol

[south kayak]

I know it does and that's a problem

Why do we even have 2 1.5m cds on the class tree and they're not even that good

[lapis shadow]

Nws, Champions spear gameplay gonna be it

[clever belfry]

3

[south kayak]

I don't think it did

[south kayak]

I'm talking about the damage cds specifically

[lapis shadow]

All my homies hate screaming brown dragon ability

[south kayak]

the ones that deal damage

[clever belfry]

u didnt specify it so get fucked

[south kayak]

like TR, Spear

[clever belfry]

👍

[south kayak]

xd

[fervent yoke]

looks like Arms > Fury in everythan

[lapis shadow]

Not in the fun zone

[indigo arch]

Idk man, I was slapping folks, and back then you had dot snapshot so you could run a poweraura for trinket procs for giga bleeds on add fights

the alternative was fury, which was not that great

[fervent yoke]

I agree its a clunkster fuck of a spec

[south kayak]

I know arms did great on long add fights

because of deep wounds

[sour frigate]

its sims

[indigo arch]

that shadopan trinket gave the JUICIEST bleeds

[sour frigate]

actual fights will be different

[indigo arch]

8800 str for 15 seconds

[south kayak]

Fury was better on aoe burst

like garrosh fight

when the adds come

BS in MoP was insane lol

good days

[lapis shadow]

Killing Pandas again for the third time? Hooray hooray!!!

[south kayak]

tbh that was the only way to do aoe as fury

so it had to be that strong

[indigo arch]

honestly warr in cata was pretty insane too, and not just due to gurthalak

[south kayak]

arms*

[indigo arch]

idk fury in firelands was pretty alright but yea

[south kayak]

fury is downbad in cata

[indigo arch]

arms holy fuck

LMAO

full send cowabunga all the time

[south kayak]

arms got too many good things and none of the downsides

and fury got rage generation normalized

without compensation

so their damage suffered

[indigo arch]

I hated going fury on spire for tendons, fuck my guild then

[south kayak]

could u use 2 gurthalaks

[indigo arch]

everyone heading off to reforge off hit/expertise to hit tendons

[edgy widget]

well for one thing they're a lot stronger in multitarget, being predominantly MT cds

[indigo arch]

Yes but it wasn't ideal, you wanted gurthalak+experimental specimen carver iirc

[lapis shadow]

Cata and Above

Which times was warrior the most fun to play

And which times was warrior most broken to play?

[edgy widget]

for another, they buff your other damage, which is where their real value comes from

[indigo arch]

was a mastery crit axe

slicer not carver*

[south kayak]

So it didn't really increase proc rate with 2x gurthalak

?

[edgy widget]

Nobody is arguing that TR/etc couldn't be stronger, but they didn't actually get nerfed either aside from the 5% aura

[indigo arch]

It did some, but not enough to be worth

[south kayak]

Well, that makes sense, it does need to be stronger imo

[edgy widget]

what happened is the rotational spells got giga buffed, so they now make up a greater percentage of total dam, even though the absolute value didn't change

[indigo arch]

Fury was also doing degen shit to be relevent, like making mastery sets out of cloth and leather etc to precast deathwish

[edgy widget]

its like a hairy bush making the pepe look small

[south kayak]

They could have nerfed Rampage/BT/RB by 10% instead of nerfing all by 5%

[lapis shadow]

[south kayak]

https://tenor.com/view/hmm-suspect-gif-22611582

[edgy widget]

More like a 10% nerf to those spells and a 5% buff to everything else, but yeah I agree - they could have

they just didn't

[indigo arch]

Good thing they nerfed sidearm, it was out of control

[edgy widget]

not the end of the world, Fury at least gonna have better ST and better sustained cleave than it did in the past

[indigo arch]

[south kayak]

CSHB too

Couldn't have it be doing that much damage

[indigo arch]

I miss when cshb cranked

rest in pizzas bfa s2

[south kayak]

EVER?

I remember fury used to have a good sustain 5 target in bfa

but idk if it was that good

[clever belfry]

the best in s3

and it wasnt very close

[south kayak]

DF?

[indigo arch]

fury with bote was so nice

[clever belfry]

bfa

[south kayak]

or S3 BFA

ok

[indigo arch]

big unga bunga damage

[edgy widget]

I didn't say that, but in recent times, yes

[lapis shadow]

Gonna apply to blizzard class developer what you guys want for warrior?

[south kayak]

that was when crit was starting to climb up and we could get a lot of cshb runnning

good days

[clever belfry]

crit was good in S2

[south kayak]

p.s. buff CSHB

[clever belfry]

but fury was ass in S2 still

this is an overall of a fh25 (tied for highest key that ssn) in bfa s3

[south kayak]

lmao that looks so cursed now

75k overall

[indigo arch]

corruption giving fury warriors 70% passive crit

[clever belfry]

just to show u how much dam fury did

[south kayak]

when we're doing 2m

[dense elbow]

• Make it so OF does more damage than a fully SS stacked rampage.
• Make it so Execute does more raw damage than CB+SS value

Ye, that is basically it

[indigo arch]

severe/strikethrough all slots lmao

[lapis shadow]

Ok so 25% flat nerf! Got it

[golden kiln]

Move shockwave back to where it was when DF talents originally came out ofc

[lapis shadow]

[south kayak]

I would give anything to see the damage breakdown

[dense elbow]

[south kayak]

[indigo arch]

I wish it was easier to get big shockwave as thane

[lapis shadow]

Blizzard would pay me to keep you guys down ngl

[indigo arch]

should check ptr calc to see if that was one of the things they fixed, I forgot

[south kayak]

Wasn't CSHB like top 3 damage in a key

[clever belfry]

p sure it was 1 or 2

[indigo arch]

yea it was WAY up there

[south kayak]

so either rampage or cshb

[clever belfry]

i did not hover the details after the vid ends

unlagi

and i highly doubt i have a log

[south kayak]

I do remember slightly

it was something like that

[golden kiln]

does PTR crushing compare to SL season 3?

[clever belfry]

cant even check them

gg

[south kayak]

Iremember when you could use either DR or BS and it wouldn't make a big difference

that was bis balance

[clever belfry]

BS was worse than DR in almost any situation

i played it in uhh Atal and TD

cause u had very large pulls and push week was bursting

and if u just did damage to 5 mobs u would stagger bursting killing ur grouop

random 5 mob pull be like

shit specs

[golden kiln]

man people complain about TR, even thinking about having to press DR makes me sleepy

[clever belfry]

the 35s cd

didnt make it better

what a shit button

[south kayak]

is that siegebreaker

[golden kiln]

yuck

yikes

that's a bad memory too

[clever belfry]

not specced

i played RA in keys

just on the bar innit

[south kayak]

Why is rend in your WA lol

[clever belfry]

thats not rend

[golden kiln]

siegebreaker would've felt 10x less depressing if it was off GCD

[clever belfry]

thats some wep enchant

i did the useless thing of tracking dogshit procs then

its absolutely inconsequential

[south kayak]

I hated bursting

good riddance

[clever belfry]

reminder that this is half a decade ago

this week was early december 2019

[south kayak]

[indigo arch]

imagine being a spec that lives by hitting, during a week where hitting kills the party

it was always fun being held hostage by group every time a pack got low

[south kayak]

CSHB did insane healing

oof

[topaz crag]

why take thunderous roar?

[hardy bluff]

because it does more dam than spear

[topaz crag]

ahh ok

[edgy widget]

OF does more damage than Rampage in multitarget, which is what the ability is for

[south kayak]

I remember back in bfa people always posted their healing parses because of CSHB healing

it was funny

[clever belfry]

i can post u my current ones instead

real

[dense elbow]

OF is a stronger whirlwind, big value over WW baseline dam

[edgy widget]

drop Storm Bolt for Bounding

[hardy bluff]

huge

[south kayak]

what's doing the most healing rn

[clever belfry]

for sure drop second wind or fast footwork before storm bolt

SB actually does something

[edgy widget]

don't play Spear in multitarget unless your group has arena R1 positioning skills, it's a huge trap since you're going to end up missing targets

[clever belfry]

its leech,

[edgy widget]

it's a ST build, Storm Bolt does nothing

I mean you could drop it during Bladestorm, but the damage contribution is pointless - unless it's a complete patchwerk environment, Bounding, Fast Footwork, and Second Wind are almost certain to provide more practical value

[south kayak]

What's your favorite expansion

[edgy widget]

MoP/Legion

[south kayak]

Does that mean you're playing mop classic

[golden kiln]

Shadowlands but before they made it good

[edgy widget]

not necessarily, but maybe

[mossy fox]

mop legion goated spec designs

[edgy widget]

MoP spec designs were actually kinda trash until 5.4

but since Classic will start on 5.4 design, it should be pretty fun

[golden kiln]

yea MoP classic will own so hard cause of that

[south kayak]

What happened before 5.4

[mossy fox]

i didnt play before siege and i assume that was 5.4

[edgy widget]

Fury will take a lot of gear scaling to catch up to Arms though

[south kayak]

oh uh

not the scaling

[edgy widget]

5.4 significantly reworked both Fury and Arms

[eternal sundial]

❗ scaling

[south kayak]

The S word

[clever belfry]

:excl#

[mossy fox]

fury and its reliance on BT crits for enrage xd

[eternal sundial]

:excl#

[clever belfry]

weak

[hardy bluff]

casting shattering throw

[south kayak]

Would be nice if we're playing MoP fury with the WoD enrage

Iirc it was 3x the chance to crit on BT in WoD

[edgy widget]

MoP Fury revolves around Enrage, with a 2x crit chance on Bloodthirst to trigger it

so early in the expansion when you only have ~20% crit, you only have about a 40% chance to trigger Enrage, which hurts your ability to fill the rotation

But by the end of the expansion when you can reach 40-50% crit, you can almost gurauntee Enrage every time

[edgy widget]

WoD was crit chance +30%

[south kayak]

and WoDs enrage was longer duration iirc

12 seconds (?)

[south kayak]

Yeah I played Fury on a MoP Pserver that was on SoO and managed to get 45% crit chance

[indigo arch]

all this mop talk making me miss how arms felt back then

bloodbath, all of it

[edgy widget]

na it was like 6 or something

[indigo arch]

even in pvp in mop arms felt right

[south kayak]

Wasn't arms a beast in mop pvp lol

they had second wind

it was busted

[indigo arch]

arms was insane back then and not just due to second wind

[edgy widget]

Arms was busted af on MoP release, it had this crazy stacking Taste for Blood mechanic that made Heroic Strike absolutely fuck

but it got culled like a month after launch because it was ridiculous in PvP

[indigo arch]

ppl would autolose duels and fights in wpvp if they popped all cds before second wind range

because second wind could just outheal LMAO

[edgy widget]

after that, Arms was pretty decent, but not really anything special, until the 5.4 rework

[south kayak]

Didn't know there was a rework in 5.4

I wanna know what got reworked then

[edgy widget]

and the 5.4 rework was fantastic, introducing concepts like slam-cleave, etc, but it got completely overshadowed by Fury

[indigo arch]

taste for blood heroic strike was unironically 1 shotting ppl in arena

it was gold

sidenote rip heroic strike

🙏

[edgy widget]

not just in PvP, it's the reason a game-wide change was made to disallow cleaving damage modifiers

[south kayak]

The Slam 35% damage with SS up was so good

Idk if Fury had anything that good

[edgy widget]

Fury didn't actually get that many spec-specific changes, but there were a lot of good talent changes for them, like going down to a 60% Bladestorm

[south kayak]

was wild strikes a 5.4 change

[edgy widget]

and adding an offhand hit to Storm Bolt was huge

[south kayak]

bloodsurge wildstrikes

[edgy widget]

no bloodsurge didn't exist till WoD

(and it was shit)

[south kayak]

I could have sworn something like that existed in mop unless im misremembering the name

[indigo arch]

oh god I forgot the "stormbolt used rotationally" arc

[south kayak]

procs that made next 3 wild strikes half gcd

what was that

[edgy widget]

Yeah that was WoD

[south kayak]

it was in MoP

im 100% sure lol

[edgy widget]

in MoP it was 1s

[indigo arch]

I miss throwdown in pvp

[indigo arch]

even if people trinketed it they still got stuck in the animation

[south kayak]

oh that's not half a gcd

nvm

[edgy widget]

ye

[indigo arch]

warrior used to have so many rotationally fun things

[south kayak]

this alongside spamming heroic strike killed my wrists

[edgy widget]

but yeah, the reason people keep saying they didn't know there was a 5.4 rework is because that's the only part people played

they forgot about the TWO THIRDS of the expansion before that

5.4 Arms and Fury were absolutely goated, but 5.1-5.3 were kinda mid

[south kayak]

i'll say one thing

meat cleaver in mop was trash

[edgy widget]

making Raging Blow hit multiple targets?

[south kayak]

pressing ww 3 times just to hit 4 enemies with raging blow

each ww hit was one additional target

[edgy widget]

Yeah, I don't remember it being that important tbh

Bladestorm fucked, that's what you really cared about

[south kayak]

fury didn't really have a good aoe rotation

u just had BS

[edgy widget]

that's all you needed

[south kayak]

BS on garrosh adds was poggers

you topped dps all the time

[edgy widget]

nothing lived longer than Bladestorm lol

[south kayak]

during that

[edgy widget]

M+ didn't exist, CMs were an absolute joke

by the time you were in high gear, there was nothing left to cleave

you were just ST with a giga Bladestorm

[south kayak]

Galakras was close

I always did better on arms on galakras

because the adds lasted longer than usual and they were frequent

not enough for one bs every minute

They're going through cata classic so fast

probably low numbers

[edgy widget]

Galakras was an afk fest

you didn't cleave shit, the mobs died in 3 seconds

after the first week of prog, we all hated that fight

[south kayak]

I don't know if you played destro warlock in MOP but that was the ultimate spec i've ever played so far

[south kayak]

yeah, it's terrible even more on transmog runs or such

if mop had m+, destro would have owned

[charred estuary]

So even in AM we're still prio RB>BT? I'd hope at least in aoe BT takes prio for thunder blast

[south kayak]

Were CMs easy? I'm excited for the CM sets

[sinful spoke]

can u link it for me

[edgy widget]

They got pretty easy by the end of the expansion yeah

Though by todays standards they’ll be easy regardless

[hardy bluff]

if you got a full set of tot gear you oneshot them all

[high echo]

a little funny that classic came to mop from all the way in 2019 (i only played classic vanilla)

so now the nostalgia bait has actual nostalgia to it

its been 6 years almost

[south kayak]

same since covid

DO you guys think they'll do WoD classic lol

[hardy bluff]

i think they will keep going until noone plays it anymore

[south kayak]

I will not be playing warrior though

trash design

[dense elbow]

WoD leveling and stuff was alright, see no reason why not to make it a classic era thing

Go in, level to max, do the raids, leave

[golden kiln]

WoD unironically fits the classic mentality more than almost any other xpac

classic is just raid logging

wod has probably the highest rated raids on avg

boom

just let them raid log wod for x months and smash legion out

[south kayak]

Raids seem fun

But the design of some classes fell flat coming from MoP

[golden kiln]

they'd need to tone down the garrison bs a bit too

[south kayak]

when they pruned most stuff

[golden kiln]

true

[high echo]

no this is it i think

[late night]

hello does anyone know how many key levels we are going to lose to start season 2?

[south kayak]

I don't see why if it doesn't take a lot of resources from them

[south kayak]

warrior was trash in wod

Slam was a talent

arms did not have a way to use up rage outside of WW

so you use WW even in ST lol

and fury did not have many ways to use up rage either

because they removed heroic strike

it was messy

[fast mural]

this happened almost every xpax legion,bfa,SL , DF

[plush ice]

didn't raging blow have like, a reduced gcd or something

so you used it twice in quick session but like at a different tempo

i could be mis remembering

[south kayak]

I don't think so

I think you'er talking about wild strike

with bloodsurge proc, wild strike was half a gcd or something

and had no rage cost I think

so you were gaining more rage than you could spend sometimes

[feral ivy]

Why is m0 a weekly lockout instead of daily isn’t that just making m0 more useless?

[south kayak]

I'm pretty sure m0 is daily

am i cooked

[dense elbow]

No clue - in my head it should just be a LFG thing

[south kayak]

yeah it is weekly nvm

[south kayak]

to save you from doing 8 m0 daily

[hardy bluff]

they gave it better gear

[south kayak]

isnt it champ tier

or something

[feral ivy]

Get

Vet*

Also yea gave better gear but still I feel like it’s going to be a dead week after doing that and the questing should only take a few hrs maby

[dense elbow]

Just enjoy some pre-nerf PvP funz

[south kayak]

play alts

[hardy bluff]

dont think m0 is open this reset

[fast mural]

its not

m0s start with season start

[feral ivy]

What?? Oh then m0 is even more useless

[dense elbow]

Every season start, I forget we got this dead week of not getting into it

feels bad every time

[hardy bluff]

yea like it always was

[fast mural]

like it always was

[fast mural]

we get a car to drift around this time tho

[feral ivy]

I swore it was opening next week to make it some useful

[dense elbow]

I will do my best to complete the car quest within this year

[fast mural]

even if m0s change next week they wont give you next season Ilvl

[high echo]

if youre decked out in m gear first few levels and lfr is useless next season

[fast mural]

im not sure if the dungeons are becoming available actually

[edgy widget]

Not in terms of complexity and time investment; a little in Cata, but more so MoP/WoD is when raiding really started getting harder and requiring more learning time, which is something classic players aren’t hugely fond of

[hardy bluff]

classic players vs dark animus

[high echo]

classic turns into raidlogging really fast

[south kayak]

[hardy bluff]

yea thats what alot of people want

[edgy widget]

I mean certainly the serious classic guilds will be fine, but talking the vast majority to players just want content they can blast through, not retail style wipe-prog

[hardy bluff]

bad for gdkp business if you need competent players

[golden kiln]

most of these players are most likely sticking to anniversary realms anyways, so anyone left on cata, or those on retail willing to give mop a try, would be a good audience for wod raid logging

[feral ivy]

Oh I just googled and no one knows yet

[edgy widget]

Sure, but that also narrows the player base, and the topic was continuing as long as people are playing it

[left perch]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/10g479vXesC382k68gw4akUKeuGUodbDho0yhKK6Eh0w/htmlview?pli=1

[south kayak]

Wasn't the difficulty of raids of cata a jump up from wotlk?

[sinful spoke]

Ty king

[edgy widget]

Those gear lists aren’t completely polished btw

[left perch]

^

[edgy widget]

I made some more changes last night

[sinful spoke]

Ik i just wanted to see what i should be roughly looking out for

[left perch]

fun fact: island ring stays eh?

[edgy widget]

Also Fury trinkets kinda ??? depending on how viable that Delve trinket actually is

[south kayak]

I do not want to farm delve trinkets

[edgy widget]

For now, Blizz will prob nerf it tho

[sinful spoke]

Im actually tilted ill have to spam fucking delves man

[hardy bluff]

yea

[south kayak]

U can't spam them

[edgy widget]

Cata difficulty was a jump yes, but MoP even more of one

[south kayak]

they're locked behind getting maps

[hardy bluff]

well keys early on

then maps

[edgy widget]

It’s not about spamming delves, it’s about getting the correct trinket from the vault

[south kayak]

^

[left perch]

eh, idk cata seemed about the same. except spine of deathwing when we learned players don’t know left from right maybe?

[south kayak]

just do 8 delves a week

[edgy widget]

And that’s a really large loot pool

[south kayak]

I mean it's not larger than dungeon pool

[sinful spoke]

8 delves is spamming them to me

Fts

[south kayak]

they're pretty quick

[edgy widget]

There’s a lot more useful dungeon loot though

[south kayak]

true

[edgy widget]

Going for one delve trinket out of all the items

Versus many dungeon items that could be useful

[south kayak]

I feel like they should make it a little deterministic

delve drops

[edgy widget]

Na, they just shouldn’t have a delve trinket that strong lol

[south kayak]

Which one is that

the mastery proc?

[edgy widget]

And part of it is because of the cantrip weapon fucking with on-use trinket timing

[south kayak]

I feel like that shouldn't be a thing

using one thing shouldn't make it go on cd

trinket/ weapon

[hardy bluff]

they stopped letting people do that a while ago

[edgy widget]

Yeah stacking on use effects is incredibly problematic for many heavy burst classes

Just weird that this tier has a weapon with a trinket-like stat bonus on use

[junior shore]

is the bug still exist where you can use the wep and trinket in macro without the gcd?

[young swan]

no

[junior shore]

kk ty

[barren hinge]

Its 700k dps (single target) per 1 minute as 600 gear score, good?

[thick fossil]

Uh, more context needed. Target dummy? Dungeon? Raid?

[barren hinge]

Target

[whole yacht]

Do 2 minutes. Imo 1 minute is too short. Not as accurate. (Again. Just my opinion)

[barren hinge]

Fair point

[thorny vigil]

yeah do 2mn and tell us which build u play (at least slayer or thorne)

[whole yacht]

@barren hinge results?

[clever path]

how tf are we supposed to kill a frost magE?

[whole yacht]

skill

[thorny vigil]

hard respons

xD

[clever path]

sobbing

i cant figure out how to counter their infinite movement

every arena map atm is a shadowlands map

nlizzard please

the one expansion that doesnt work

we love shadowlands content causing blue screens

[warm crag]

#pvp

[granite violet]

we havent been nerfed yet for a whole 2days, is Bliz on a holiday or something?

[clever path]

What? We just got nerfed didn’t we

[stiff barn]

We did by 5%

[coral dock]

It already showed us as A tier which was near the bottom of the rankings and they nerfed us? I’m not sure how accurate the icy veins ratings are currently but I wouldn’t put it past blizzard to nerf us again just for ol’ times’ sake

Or B tier maybe

[stiff barn]

Hard to tell, but both fury and arms 5% nerf.

[coral dock]

Yeah we were A tier but 6th lowest overall according to the rankings prior to this nerf

[oblique trail]

If you look at tier lists as a genuine measurement of how a class is doing, I will question your intellectual capacity

[restive peak]

What lowest overall are you even reading lmao

We have NO data for S2 DPS rankings, none

[whole yacht]

fury got nerfed on ptr?

[restive peak]

And no tier list is real or relevant, if you want to view how dishonest they are, go watch the Max video

Where every class sandbagged as hard as possible and pretended they're weak

[dense elbow]

Crit betrayed us, moved us down from S++

Was the best PR for PuG invites in a long time

[restive peak]

TBH arms probably will be S tier for the raid

[edgy widget]

ALMOST every

Enh chad @celest night callin it like it is

[celest night]

that's me!

[restive peak]

True

[earnest canyon]

where are these rankings?

[earnest canyon]

I tried but its for subs only

[restive peak]

Even then though, if those other specs wanna pretend they're A..is enh really S? Lmao

The youtube video is free brotato

[edgy widget]

I didn’t watch, but several people commented that you were about the only one honest enough to say “yeah this is cracked and everyone else is just sandbagging”

[earnest canyon]

i checked and couldnt see it

[celest night]

I didn't say anyone's sandbagging to be fair I'm not wading into that territory

I don't know if it's actually the best, I just know it's really good

and lying about it is cringe so

[restive peak]

Enh is really good 110%, I think the honest part would've been VDH/Prot Pala/Havoc/BM/Fire/Arms/Enh/Destro in S tier

If we're all being honest

[edgy widget]

It’s ok, you can say it

This is a safe space

[earnest canyon]

Ah its under "live"

[celest night]

nah I'd rather keep my mouth shut until the inevitable spec bodying everything and unload on them

[restive peak]

He knows our secret

[celest night]

since despite saying we were S tier before the expansion launched I was STILL sandbagging last time around apparently lmao

[restive peak]

GET HIM

The only insanely blatant sandbag yesterday was Kalamazi

That was the wildest sandbag I've ever listened to

"YEAH WE SIM LIKE 3MIL SO LIKE WE NEED AN AURA BUFF AND ARE LIKE B TIER BRO ITS PRETTY BAD MAN WE JUST TOP OVERALL IN M+ AND SIM TOP 5 BUT LIKE B"

Facepalmeroni

Meanwhile Laflame giga memein on PTR cuz they're so strong haha

[celest night]

well it's all recorded so we'll just see when the patch launches won't we!

[dapper goblet]

madox for yellow

[restive peak]

I actually think tuning is decent so far

Def closer than S1s shit show

[young swan]

tbf warlocks are competing with tanks in sim dps last i heard

idk if they just actually suck in st (possible) or they are giga sandbagging

[restive peak]

I was told they're sandbaggin hard and their best spec sims like 3m

Who knows though

We'll know more soon

[high echo]

this is not true

idk about demo but affli is much closer to destro now who is ranked very close to the top

[restive peak]

^

[young swan]

epic

destro moment

[high echo]

affli st dps sucked but they brought it in line

[young swan]

the truest of sandbaggers

[high echo]

affli is even said to beat destro in a couple fights

[young swan]

not surprising

theres a couple with spread cleave

[high echo]

split target yeah

[young swan]

will be a funny tier

[heavy galleon]

fury will be probably good spec for raid, but middle tier for M+

[young swan]

is spriest still cracked or did blizzard shooting the tierset put them in the ground

[young swan]

yeah we'll be solud

i still kinda think it'll be 1 fury/1 arms

[restive peak]

Same

[young swan]

with a possible 2xArms

[restive peak]

2x arms for some fights for execute possibly

[young swan]

but fury damage profile is pretty cool

straight line

[warm crag]

we love straight lines

[young swan]

still cringe

[oblique trail]

you're a straight line

[young swan]

still hate AM

but good for raid

[warm crag]

die AM die

[maiden ingot]

I'd bet on x2 Arms for sure, at the very least for the 2 more Nelth-style Bosses, but kind of hoping Gallywix turns out as a Fury Angle. We love balanced tiers.

Little bit of both

[heavy galleon]

I hope Blizzard rework fury because our design is just old.
Cap target and no real good utility

[young swan]

based

preaching to the choir

[restive peak]

I loveeee straight line dmg bro

[steep lynx]

waiting for warrior to bring lust imo

[young swan]

wouldnt help much except for flavour

[restive peak]

Lust would do nothing for us, we go over this literally every week

[young swan]

would upset tank balance

[warm crag]

you want to waste a gcd on pull?

[steep lynx]

first tank with lust ❤️

[young swan]

first tank with lust would be kinda cool

but doesnt really help damage specs very much

[maiden ingot]

Give us Lust, also nobody ever presses it "somebody else will do it"

[heavy galleon]

We can't dispell, we can't purge, we can't remove enrage, it's cringe as fuck

[young swan]

some niche situations in m+ where it would be nice

full phys comp for example would need lust

[oblique trail]

Noober lust isn't on the GCD!!!

Goes to show you don't know what you're talking about

[young swan]

real

[fickle bluff]

real

[maiden ingot]

Spongie's just ahead of the Devs, if we ever got lust, it would be on the GCD, just for us.

[earnest canyon]

I played MM in M+ like 6months ago, and I was the lust bitch.....but I have to stand there summoning my pet, lust, then dispell the pet, then have a debuff for 10secs or so.....was so miserable

[inner zinc]

it would prob also have a rage cost and require us to be in melee range

[maiden ingot]

Lust, on the GCD, costs 80 Rage, has to be melee range because it requires that 2000 tooltip damage to hit to activate.

[young swan]

i wouldnt mind a choice node between rally and lust

[inner zinc]

"choice" yeah lol...

[earnest canyon]

wouldnt a tank having lust make it almost an auto include if the dps with lust werent super strong?

[steep lynx]

yea imo i stopped dpsing keys this expansion or warrior just felt terrible made a pally they get a go every 30 and they bring so much utility i just tank keys on warrior now and raid fury :\ first season i ever got 3k io also

[maiden ingot]

Wdym.

[young swan]

but it is a choice

rally sucks in m+

lust is good

[maiden ingot]

In Raid you'd probably never pick it because you know, light blue main characters and lizards exist. But if you could choice node into it, at least you'd be able to bring it. Rally poopoo, Lust good for melee comp

[young swan]

which one is better to bring

[earnest canyon]

yeah I meant m+....you have way more slots in a raid

[young swan]

in raid it doesnt matter

[maiden ingot]

Ye

[steep lynx]

yea i mean its not the end all be all fix but atleast we'd bring something in a m+ setting

[maiden ingot]

Actually wouldn't mind that.

[young swan]

unless if you drastically changed warrior lust to give crit % or some shit

[sour frigate]

[maiden ingot]

At that point don't give us lust, just give us some iteration of Skull banner again

[steep lynx]

and it fits we do shouts n shit so why cant we do a lust shout

[earnest canyon]

but blizzard go through these cycles of mandatory buffs, which means mandatory classes, then "bring the player not the class", now we are in some halfway house where you want "at least 1" of some classes at least

[sour frigate]

banner now.

[inner zinc]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/875594407892647956/1320963615230001232/Warrior_Banners.gif

[earnest canyon]

they gave hunters that crap hunters mark buff

[sour frigate]

[sour frigate]

testosterone incident in space marine 2

[young swan]

sure, i was mostly using lust to denote a raidwide buff that can only be benefitted from every 10 minutes

[maiden ingot]

SkB > Malding Banner.

[maiden ingot]

Yeah, I got ya. I mean I wouldn't mind if different lusts existed.

Still think you'd mostly want the haste lust, but who knows

[young swan]

yeah would be cool

you'd for sure have to deviate either in the % granted or make them have diff debuffs

[steep lynx]

i love tf outta warrior but after playing ret pally this season i literally can only bring myself to play prot warrior in m+ literally not being able to do anything to help the group feels so bad 😦

[jade cipher]

guys asking for a friend, if you want something like Weak auras across your screen but as pressable buttons, what addon can do that

bartender?

[maiden ingot]

Bartender, Dominos (?) or whatever, ElvUi. Even baseline Bars, you just set them up like you would your WA's.

[warm crag]

i think base ui is sophisticated enough to do what you want

[steep lynx]

i think any bar addon can do that bartender or elvui u just have to configure the bars in that style

[maiden ingot]

This, basically

[earnest canyon]

Im watching this maximum tier list for dps....who was the guy he called for warrior? Im not that familiar with the warrior community

[jade cipher]

He uses Elvui, thanks for the info gentlemen

[oblique trail]

Some random guy called Critcake

[earnest canyon]

Oh I know who that is, I just didnt know his voice. Thanks

I really only watch the race to world first when it comes to wow, so not familiar with streamers and such

[high echo]

May be better that way

As a whole

[dense elbow]

For sure stay away from tierlists and dramalama, if you dont enjoy the silliness of it all

[fast mural]

RWF famously doesnt have drama

[steep lynx]

^^ play what u like if ur good ull blow all the meta hogs outta the water anyways

[young swan]

this was last tier btw (diaz is a mod for his stream)

[oblique trail]

you love to see it

[young swan]

dude i laughed so fucking hard

crit was sick or getting ready for bed or some shit

[dapper goblet]

xan would have put warrior in C tier

knowing him

[young swan]

wouldve not done that

[dapper goblet]

uh huh

[fast mural]

should have just let him made it up and put us with ret

[dapper goblet]

"warrior is dogshit" every couple days

[young swan]

im only a sandbagger when it comes to playing

[barren hinge]

Not at home for 2 days

[earnest canyon]

I enjoy the early tier lists just to have somewhat of a base to work off, so I kinda understand what changes have been made and the relevance from "experts", even if some are memeing or sandbagging. So then when changes inevitably come I have some understanding of the classes I dont really play. Its good 2nd monitor content.

[oblique trail]

I beg of you, for your own and others sake, don't ever take tier lists for more than just content

[earnest canyon]

Im not, im playing warrior as I just enjoy how fury flows, where it comes in some tier list has no effect really. But then I dont push high keys or do mythic raid. Im 6/8 mythic on my hunter, and I stopped playing that months ago

[dense elbow]

2nd monitor content for sure; but only take their comments to heart if they are sincere. Placing is totally arbitrary and just to stirr emotions and reactions

[earnest canyon]

Yeah like I said, its just for context, not some cast iron list for try hards

I know some people will use these to swap to whatever is currently fotm then feel bad when things get nerfed, or feel bad when the list is wrong and the classes dont perform as listed when iLevel increases

[dense elbow]

Just be sad that we didnt end up in S++ tier. As it was a free ticket to a lot of PuG invites for weeks into the patch

I will never forgive Crit, not untill he says Jarlsberg is better than Norwegia.

[high echo]

You will still get invited

Just not to high m+

[fast mural]

yea we would have free passes to +6 keys

everyone who does higher keys knows better

[earnest canyon]

Yeah that was the case on my hunter....It was ok upto like a 10-12 off rio score, but higher not a chance

[dense elbow]

S++, would be easy pass up to (now tier) 15s

[high echo]

Not caring about high m+ is like sitting at the bright side in the bus meme

[earnest canyon]

What meme is that?

[dense elbow]

Man sits on buss, watching on something positive. On the opposite seat side, another stares at doom and gloom

[earnest canyon]

Ahhhhh

yeah Ive never really liked M+, its too sweaty for me....I like doing medium keys with friends and always get the mount, but super high keys just arent fun for me

M+ is why i stopped playing mage

[high echo]

M+ is really good as a concept

No incentive past vault and before title

[earnest canyon]

I think its a good addition as more options is always good

But having it as basically the easiest/fastest way to gear (you need 5 people, it doesnt take hours etc etc) kinda sucks....but at the same time, its arguably the highest skill content in pve

[south kayak]

Fury - Ret

[split brook]

Real quick which talent would I drop for single minded fury in Single Target raid fight?

Main Prot so only have one handed weps

[craggy raptor]

crit passive

[wind torrent]

Prob Critical Thinking

[split brook]

Awesome ty guys

[hard widget]

Are we allowed to start dooming on fury m+ yet?

[next ruin]

It's bad it'll be bad

[summer crater]

Look forward to another season of pugs hating you

[hard widget]

xd

[fervent yoke]

Okay so we know arms is our m+ spec but what about raids?

[lapis shadow]

https://tenor.com/view/i-don't-know-idk-idk-about-that-gif-7336250873949261946

[fervent yoke]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/10g479vXesC382k68gw4akUKeuGUodbDho0yhKK6Eh0w/htmlview

if we are going off of pure sims looks arms > in all content

[dense elbow]

Arms has been decided that is factually and objectively set as the M+ spec, eh?

[earnest canyon]

Does arms flow better though?

Thats what puts me off it....fury is just so fun, arms is like clunky as hell to me

[fervent yoke]

IMO it’s a bit clunky but can work around it with use of macros

[dense elbow]

Did the madlads actually build M+ sims based on the dungeon pathing already?

Insane.

[fervent yoke]

I think fury is a lot smoother imo

[dense elbow]

Almost unbelievable

[fervent yoke]

but I pretty much only played fury last season

[earnest canyon]

id happily take a hit on dps to just play something more fun

I tried havoc and I fricking hate it

[fervent yoke]

True but pugging m+ it’ll probably be easier as arms

[earnest canyon]

same with ret templar