fury

[weary sail]

Where do you think the meme “dps stand in fire to do more dps” comes from

[winter shoal]

Okay but greeding for damage was the only interesting thing about bosses back then

[dire badge]

I figured the more dps thing was revisionist history by the victors

[orchid dagger]

Comes from me popping defensives to stand in shit more to deal more damage

[winter shoal]

If you're progging a boss and people are padding on adds whose hp is not the bottleneck of your progression, they are actively griefing the 19 other people in the raid

[weary sail]

Not much different from now

[golden hare]

riot phreak

[weary sail]

When you re-clear the boss for the 14th time, the only way to keep it interesting is to parse high

[winter shoal]

I locked in my parse on Ulgrax adds, fuck everyone else from now until 11.0

[weary sail]

My guild we started one healing heroic reclear

[dire badge]

ZAAAMNNNN

[weary sail]

If people are wiping the raid on prog to get better parse

Play w better people

[winter shoal]

You're telling me

@ unnamed fire mage flamestriking on Brood when we have multiple 1% wipes

[weary sail]

[winter shoal]

It's okay I made a stink about it on reclear and went from a 50 to a 91 bc people weren't stealing my add damage

(as much)

[weary sail]

“We have 100 chances to kill the boss per week, but i only have 1 chance to parse”

[dire badge]

too real

[winter shoal]

Maid do you even raid anymore

Or just shitpost in skyhold

[dire badge]

nah I just m+ now but prob stop on my eu monk

just been doing 1 weekly for a few weeks now

[weary sail]

636 ilvl 2800io still cant get into weekly 10s pugs

[winter shoal]

Nobody playing rn

They're all playing poe2

[brittle crow]

someone ilvl boost my lock

just hit 80

[lament otter]

Just do your own keys tbh

much easier

[south kayak]

[young swan]

shai'hulud

[south kayak]

Yeah it does look like a sand worms mouth

[inner shadow]

how can u know how many m+ keys u did for exp this week?

[brittle crow]

u dont do keys for exp u do keys at max level

STUPID

[fickle bluff]

youre not getting paragon exp?

[inner shadow]

exp means example

...

you're about as same iq as this guy

[brittle crow]

no it fucking doesn't wtf

[inner shadow]

it's the only valid answer for that context

xp is experience

for exp is for example

[eternal sundial]

Too low ilvl or io or

[modest condor]

literally never seen anyone use exp as short for example

[inner shadow]

really

[eternal sundial]

Exp is cringe

[brittle crow]

literally only u..

[eternal sundial]

For ex sure

For exp??

[inner shadow]

EU things ig

for ex, exp

[brittle crow]

smells like stinky frenchman in here

[inner shadow]

nope

nt

tho

but still

with some higher than room temp

you'd understand that the question doesn't make sense with experience as a word

:))

instead of jumping into insults, understand first

[brittle crow]

understand deez

[eternal sundial]

I have important news

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/764349941270315031/1315790631318192248/E2202974-461A-4379-A85F-8EAE3488607B.png?ex=6758b104&is=67575f84&hm=b465f31a2a8934b89f62aff9d4c3d78a71b89ee2d69945caef6c1fff42bd95c5&

Chogath Support 100% WR

[brittle crow]

play

kled

[eternal sundial]

As supp or

[brittle crow]

jungle

[eternal sundial]

Fuck jungle i need more aids picks for bot

[brittle crow]

u know

bear trap on a rope

kled support

????????

[eternal sundial]

Bro we won vs pyke veigar

[brittle crow]

neither of those r bot ..

[inner shadow]

guess the class

[brittle crow]

dh

[inner shadow]

i think bro's brain is broken

[hardy cargo]

https://tenor.com/view/impress-based-american-psycho-very-based-impressive-very-based-gif-21665669

[inner shadow]

is it possible to setup a macro that interrupts the mark?
for exp say I want it to interrupt {Star}, how would that work?

[hardy bluff]

no

[young swan]

just make a set focus macro

and make an interrupt @focus macro

[charred panther]

I just use a regular mouse over

[inner shadow]

this should be bannable for exp

[charred panther]

Still not reading that as “example” , lol

[charred panther]

Damn, that ape weak aura has made its rounds

[inner shadow]

i went through college using that, we use that in italy, idk about youj tho

[inner shadow]

it sure did, its' funny anyways

[smoky vale]

[inner shadow]

showtooltip /use [@focus,exists,nodead][]Pummel

this work?

[inner shadow]

[charred panther]

Def, does it say who wrote it?

[charred panther]

I saw the earlier convo, so I jested. Murica

Doesn’t the focus macro require you to focus a target?

[inner shadow]

on a pug group too

[inner shadow]

imported by guest

[inner shadow]

well yes

[charred panther]

Been playing this game too long, had a friend like 8-10 years ago give it out during raid..claimed creation

[charred panther]

Why I just a mouse over interrupt, so I don’t need to focus

[young swan]

i think the warrior wowhead guide has one but if u just googled for one it prob works

#showtooltip Pummel
/cast [@focus, harm, exists][@target] Pummel

is the one from #dps-faq

[inner shadow]

i got that too, but its easier to just set it, cuz sometimes u cant fuckin see where yo mouse is

[timid cave]

anybody have a zekvir ?? build they use as fury? I mainly play prot and I havent touched fury at all this expansion. I was thinking of just swapping over to a dps build and trying it that way.

[inner shadow]

watch critcake's zekvir fight

[modest condor]

only thing that matters is that you're slayer with the snare removal talent, the rest you can just play whatever

[inner shadow]

this one

and make sure to use spell reflect on second phase, it reflects like 50mil damage

[modest condor]

it doesnt

[timid cave]

that was patched out right?

[modest condor]

yes

[inner shadow]

oh so it doesn't anymore

you said it doesn't i thought i was schizo for a moment

what's that addon people have when they click ESCAPE it shows them portal/hearthstones?

it's like on the right side of this

[timid cave]

Teleport menu

[inner shadow]

addon or weakaura?

[timid cave]

https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/teleport-me-nu/screenshots

[plucky wedge]

Is week 1 tmog ring going to be stronger then a mythic ring next week?

[inner shadow]

tmog ring?

[plucky wedge]

Cyrces Cirlet

[summer quail]

without sims we can never know

[inner shadow]

https://tenor.com/view/kanye-raise-award-well-never-know-oh-well-gif-5061742

if my team uses
/focus [exists][]
/run if not GetRaidTargetIndex("focus") then SetRaidTarget("focus",5) end
will they be assigned different marks, or will they all be getting {Moon} Like i am rn?

[feral ivy]

found a guild wooooo

[inner shadow]

good for you

[feral ivy]

just in time for weekly reset

[brittle crow]

i have never used a focus macro

[lament otter]

[undone flower]

Only once, on carapace on nzoth for the warlock portal

[inner shadow]

Focused macro are goated ngl

[brave girder]

Anyone got a macro to yell to not kick a cast when spell reflecting ?

[inner shadow]

It won’t be as useful as you may think

Cuz you can spell reflect 1 spell yeah, but what if there are 3 casters? And you tell em don’t kick im reflecting, there’s too many ooze smooth brains who will simply not kick anything, and possibly die/wipe

[brave girder]

Ffs you're right

[inner shadow]

Try to just use spell reflect when 0.5 sec left

Generally they don’t kick that

[brave girder]

Thats what i do

But i thought of the macro

Didnt really think it through

[sonic shoal]

Where do you guys look for M+ teams?

[inner shadow]

wowprogress you find people saying “ x-y is looking for a m+ team “

Or in LFG there’s some who leave a thing open all day saying they want to join a team

[summer crater]

Has anyone looked into how good the ring will be?

[heady cobalt]

anyone elses sims not using bladestorm?

@edgy widget nvm, it seems to only happen with the target dummy option.

[left perch]

nah it’s just assist macro if you really need to be on a specific thing and you assign one person to hurry and target eh?

[winter shoal]

focus macro is OP

[brittle crow]

i just snipe mouseovers always and wipe us when i miss

[left perch]

how is focus macro op

you have to set it every pack or every add wave

[left perch]

my man

[winter shoal]

Well yeah but you're gonna have to kick every pack anyways

Can set your focus while you run in and have it ready for when the cast comes

[left perch]

Mosueover ez clap

also modern tab target usually prefers a cast in progress it seems so you’re prolly fine there

[covert blaze]

are the wcl add exclusion stuff changes live or next week

[sinful spoke]

chat has anyone else had the first boss of grim batol just heal 300m hp

[covert blaze]

affix

[sinful spoke]

so healer issue

[covert blaze]

debatable

[summer quail]

this is so dumb

[steel shard]

fury nerf

[covert blaze]

making people not degen aoe build on a mostly st boss is not dumb imo

[summer quail]

idk i think this is a slippery slope

[edgy widget]

I can't even be bothered to care anymore, WCL trying so hard to tell people how to play the game, instead of just track and report what people are actually doing

[summer quail]

i think excluding adds that are guaranteed to spawn is not it

[edgy widget]

it is dumb, because you're just weighting the ranks back in the other direction (of the pure ST people who don't have any AoE anyway)

not to mention that how people spec affects their ranks - if half your group goes full degen multitarget at the expense of ST, you'll have slower ST and therefore a parse which will reflect it

just to showcase how stupid it is, why not do the same thing for Bloodbound? It's practically the same fight, the only difference being in the phasing

[sinful spoke]

nah

always healer issue

[summer quail]

not to mention there are classes that sacrifice very little st to go aoe. now wclogs incentivize them to go full st essentially, why even care about the adds?

[sinful spoke]

theyre doing the same thing they did for rash cause the devs play mage

its obvious

[steel shard]

going full st on rashak

and the adds never dying

loved it

can they just leave shit alone

[summer quail]

wait are they removing adds from rash again? like they did before?

[steel shard]

just remove the allstar meme points

[sinful spoke]

afaik no

im just saying they did

[summer quail]

yea i know they did, and they only reverted it because of mass backlash. if they poll things, the mass amount of casuals will vote on it. so they have an excuse now "this is what you wanted" while most people don't even do the fights

[sinful spoke]

i think zhai is secretly manipulating wlogs so he can go full st and farm parses

[edgy widget]

low visibility polling is never a good way to make community-wide changes; Blizz demonstrated that quite clearly with its DF S4 tier set voting

[calm mantle]

Some people do a lot of dungeons lmao

[covert blaze]

at least you can cleave the boss when adds are up

going aoe on ulgrax is just degen

[edgy widget]

people said the same about Rasha, and yet...

[covert blaze]

and specs that are less bursty cant eever parse based on comp

[sinful spoke]

i rememeber how streamers ruined this season for us 😔 ✊

[modest condor]

ikr

[covert blaze]

picture playing something like spriest

with 3 rets 3 fdk 3 fury in your raid

[sinful spoke]

buddy either doesnt have a life or is selling keys

[covert blaze]

vs a spriest playing with a spec with no burst

it's not fair

so excluding pad is fair

at least in my opinion

[edgy widget]

Why does that matter? Not everyone should be able to parse on every fight - it's a group game comprised of several different roles

also boss damage parses are a thing, they may be niche, but they're no more niche than the all stars bullshit

[covert blaze]

parses shouldnt be heavily dictated by your comp and people also padding with that comp

[sinful spoke]

for me excluding padd is only fair if the padd doesnt matter

if theyre a main part of the fight removing them is stupid

[edgy widget]

Parses should absolutely be dictated by group makeup and fight design

[summer quail]

so if a spec is bad st why include st fights? it's not fair against the weak st spec

[lost saffron]

What do you think they should be dictated by then?

[covert blaze]

? parses are inside of a spec

lol

[verbal rivet]

Ovinax parses out here, idk what you all did to your raid leads to let you be the only pad in the raid

[sinful spoke]

nah bro this is disgusting tho

doesnt the first warrior have like 20 externals

[verbal rivet]

I get mocked by my guild for my green parses

[edgy widget]

parses will always be dictated by setup, it's been that way since god damn Warlords of Draenor

[lost saffron]

unfortunate

[edgy widget]

but it also only matters to the very tippy top of the scale, e.g. the people getting top 10 or so

[lost saffron]

But if you are consistently green parsing having the right comp and option to parse wont get you anywhere

Its more of a rank 1 vs a rank 30 thing

[sinful spoke]

like

[verbal rivet]

I have full purple parses on every boss but Ovinax.

[edgy widget]

your SPriest isn't green parsing because you have a FDK blowing up adds
and they're not going to suddenly orange parse if the FDK sits

[lost saffron]

Thats good then

[modest condor]

damn they wanted to make sure people use the ring

[verbal rivet]

I’m just 1M DPS under purple for heroic Ovinax. Bc my group has like 7 ret Palis

[modest condor]

43-44% buffs

[verbal rivet]

And adds aren’t real

[edgy widget]

moreover it's all artifiical and it greatly skews the perception of class balance and fight design of the tier

[lost saffron]

My parses are absolute trash this tier

But its not because of my guild

Im just too stupid to parse on silken court

😇

[left perch]

hard agree

[covert blaze]

playing well

[lost saffron]

If you play well youre getting a 95+ on every fight

youre not just not getting a 100

[covert blaze]

agree

[sinful spoke]

on first kill or rekill

[verbal rivet]

I’m rerolling outlaw rogue bc raid lead said “ a 620 ret beating a 630 fury in a +10 just means the fury is dogs***.” And that if he played fury, he’d be able to beat them. So I’m becoming a gambling main. And not actually being helpful for raids.

[lost saffron]

Rekills ofc

[sinful spoke]

ah

[lost saffron]

Our first kills were so early

[edgy widget]

This right here is why the whole conversation is stupid - people are too obsessed with things they're not getting anyway

[lost saffron]

anything below rank 1 was a purple parse

I mean you can be revvez and still not consistently get rank 1s

because nobody plays around that

ofc revvez has 100% average on every fight because they are the first one to kill it 🙂

[left perch]

Idk how rank 1 matters when Revvez will kill a boss 4 months before you and with shit gear. But ok.

[lost saffron]

I mean its fun to compete a bit

I like to get 99 on every fight at least

but its not working this tier xDD

Fuck ovinax and rashanan

luckily theyre not in allstars but I dont think I can get a 99 there anywhere

Getting there on boss dmg at least

Sooon TM

[edgy widget]

idk where these things are even polled lol

nothing on their twitter, main website, can't even find it in discord

[lost saffron]

It just shows on the website

there is a little line on the frontpage

where you can go to the voting

[edgy widget]

I never saw it

doesn't seem like they're trying very hard to get an actual response rate either

[covert blaze]

it's more about being ''fair'' and not encouraging degen gameplay

[lost saffron]

What do you consider degen gameplay

[covert blaze]

making bosses die slower by padding

[lost saffron]

I mean thats not something you can avoid

[edgy widget]

Ok, but it's not fair, because you're artificially negating a design advantage of someone else to make it "more fair" for you

[lost saffron]

Also in that sense it is very fair

You are allowed to do it

everyone is allowed to do it

Nobody is stopping you

[covert blaze]

lol

[edgy widget]

the only issue is that some people are better at it than others... except that's a point of design - blizz purposefully designed some classes to be better in certain areas than others

[lost saffron]

And some people care more about abusing it

than others

[edgy widget]

manipulating performance to obfuscate that is incredibly artificial imo

it grossly distorts the actual state of balance and class performance in a given tier

[outer umbra]

man what are these ring buffs i wanted to afk the next patch and play good games

[edgy widget]

there will be an article about them in the coming week, detailing what they all do

[summer quail]

would have used it anyway probably, just the stat gems

[covert blaze]

i agree

i think wcl tries to find some kind of middle ground

to be ''fair'' in the way i was trying to argue

[edgy widget]

I get that, except it's not fair

[covert blaze]

impossible to make it perfect or please everyone tho

[edgy widget]

it's detracting from one to make another better

which is artificial in every sense of the word

it warps the presentation of balance and performance in the tier (something that blizz absolutely looks at for their tuning by the way)

[warm crag]

idk historically i felt like stuff only got excluded if its degen and detrimental to prog if you want to parse to it

the new list of proposed changes seem aligned with that

[edgy widget]

restricting degen stuff is fine, yeah you shouldn't be able to spawn endless extra adds to pad on - I think just about everyone can get behind that one

[warm crag]

at least the silken tomb one since you want to immune that ideally

[covert blaze]

i understand that, but i think going full aoe in a fight with ''meaningless'' adds is more toxic than doing the opposite and leaning st

[edgy widget]

wiping out entire phases of a fight is incredibly manipulative though

[edgy widget]

they said the same thing about Rasha and how'd that work out? Turns out the adds aren't so meaningless

Also that's a matter of social dynamics - something for your group to figure out; if everyone is going AoE, nobody is going to parse (either in ST or AoE), and there's a very real possibility you don't kill the boss (less so for Ulgrax, being as trivial as it is)

but like I said earlier, your SPriest isn't getting green parses because they have a FDK blowing up adds, and they're not suddenly going to orange parse because the FDK sits or the adds don't count anymore - they might feel that way, but it is not at all the reality of the situation

[covert blaze]

except overkilling adds when most people are fiending for pad is a bigger problem than figuring out the amount of ''necessary'' aoe

[edgy widget]

is it a big problem?

[covert blaze]

i said bigger not big

[edgy widget]

like seriously is this a big problem?

[covert blaze]

no one of this matters if you straw man hard enough

who cares it's parses trolololol

[edgy widget]

I don't think it's a bigger problem at all, I don't think it's a problem period, especially not on ulgrax

[covert blaze]

just kil the boss 4head

[edgy widget]

nobody is strawmanning, I'm responding directly to what you said lol

[covert blaze]

im being hyperbolic

cause this is a discussion based on caring about parsing and not being degen

if you say nothing matters like toph then you cant really have a discussion

[edgy widget]

I don't give a shit about your ranks, my ranks, or anyone else's - my entire point is that these manipulations artificially distort the perception of class balance in the tier, which impacts both players and developers

It's even worse when it's done based off a limited and barely visible poll that wasn't promoted

[covert blaze]

you can very much argue that how you do the first boss of the raid doesnt really matter because of how easy it is but that was not the point

[meager void]

I believe that serious players use wclogs for much more than the shiny color on their dps rank.

[edgy widget]

good because nobody argued that point, so idk why you're bringing it up
it's not a response to anything I said

[covert blaze]

i agree

[meager void]

nonetheless, this exclusions are annoying. Making a non problem into a problem.

[covert blaze]

i see these changes as a ''necessary evil'' of sorts, for the reasons ive stated before and whatnot

it's not ideal

the poll was visible anywhere on wcl im pretty sure

on the top banner of the page

[warm crag]

ya i cant find the poll anymore

i assume its just done

[covert blaze]

yeah it's done

the results are out

[warm crag]

link?

[meager void]

any proper Recruitment officer knows better than to just look at parses.

[warm crag]

ty

ansurek change is nice since we full immune everything lmao

ulgrax one is bad since its just the rashanan problem again

[covert blaze]

that's part of the fairness aspect i was talking about
you are being punished on logs if you dont immune (so to speak) or if have a lot of burst classes that will kill roots very fast and also encouraging those specs to lose boss damage (enhancement chain lighting in st to save tempest omegalul)

[edgy widget]

I don't think there's any Mythic group that doesn't full immune roots anyway, so that case is extremely limited

[warm crag]

you sure? i thought most groups kill 1-2 root sets

[edgy widget]

na they all get immuned

[left perch]

random, but it’s weird to add rules on top of a system that blizzard does not align with.

[edgy widget]

^

[left perch]

two pi? Not a bannable offense

6 pi? Fine

[edgy widget]

hence my comment about artificial manipulation - I have no problem if WCL wants to flag things like multiple PIs, but wiping out entire phases of encounters is distorting the hell out of actual balance

[left perch]

Yep

[covert blaze]

how so

genuine question

[edgy widget]

and it results in a distorted view of balance

[covert blaze]

data being potentially misinterpreted?

[left perch]

because a 99 in blizzard rules is very different than a 99 in WCL rules

[edgy widget]

I really hope that's not a serious question, becasue it should be very obvious

• you're not counting numbers in the fight

WCL not tracking damage to Ulgrax adds doesn't mean they just disappear from the fight - someone still needs to kill them

[covert blaze]

can't you still see unfiltered damage in wcl

if you toggle it on the log

[edgy widget]

on individual reports yes, everywhere else (most importantly statistics) no

[left perch]

yea but the issue is that rankings imply data based rankings imo

[edgy widget]

it's also pretty well hidden

[keen forum]

WCL bad. Need new site

[left perch]

99th percentile on a chart should mean something

[covert blaze]

i mean

blizzard surely has a way of seeing stuff

[left perch]

this in data analytics is a 99th percentile after throwing out edge cases, and blizzard doesn’t align with that

[covert blaze]

and doesnt completely balance around logs anyway no?

logs meaning wcl

are you saying theres 0 nuance

for them reading data

and they take the ranking with excluded adds and shit at face value?

[left perch]

I would be surprised if they look at WCL data at all

[edgy widget]

Lemme use a completely random example to make the point

• you go to Murlok.io to see what builds people are running in M+
• it says 83% of the top keys are playing Build A which cements it as the best build
• you don't know that it's only counting keys from 3/8 dungeons for whatever reason
• is Build A still the best, or is it only the best under those circumstances? You don't know

[covert blaze]

is that relevant to how blizzard makes decisions?

[edgy widget]

Blizz absolutely balances around logs

[left perch]

around logs or WCL?

assuming former

[edgy widget]

They're kind of one and the same, since WCL is the only logs site

[left perch]

I would assume blizzard has internal WCL so to speak

[covert blaze]

idk i feel like this argument would be a blizzard problem not a wcl problem

[left perch]

it’s their infrastructure

[edgy widget]

LOL no, they absolutely do not
that'd be an insanely huge project

[summer quail]

if a fight has a guaranteed set amount of adds that you cannot game(like roots) i think they should count in the fight. things like roots on ansurek are where the real degen things are imo

[left perch]

we had that at Netflix it wasn’t…that large.

it’s “just big data” but, that’s wild to learn haha. TIL

[compact knot]

netflix tracks world of warcraft parses holy shit

based

[edgy widget]

tracking analytics isn't the same thing as tracking performance parses lol

Sure Blizz has all sorts of gameplay analytics, but that's a far cry from what WCL does

[left perch]

In my mind the server logs have to know who performed what actions

so then you have the data, just you need to analyze it yea

[edgy widget]

they do, but to actually calculate it, break it down, and rank it the way WCL does?

[covert blaze]

agree

[left perch]

enter Tableau, etc. But I see your point.

[covert blaze]

gotta leave rip i was invested on this conversation

good talk archi

https://tenor.com/view/jose-mourinho-manchester-united-handshake-jose-mourinho-handshake-mourinho-gif-26083601

[compact knot]

ulgrax average killtime is about to skyrocket

[edgy widget]

Certainly public logs are not the only thing they balance around, and I'm not saying they make their balancing decisions based purely on the Stats page on WCL, but public perception is a huge part of how they balance, regardless of what the actual numbers should be, and WCL absolutely has a hand in driving that perception

To quote one of their prominent devs from a few years ago: "sometimes the illusion of balance is more important than actual balance"

[left perch]

Sad and true

Although, not drastically sad it’s just how things work

[edgy widget]

he actually had a point at the time - it was something about buffing something by 1% makes people feel better even if it doesn't have any real impact on overall performance

[left perch]

I legit was this entire time assuming blizzard both had their own WCL across all lots not just uploaded public. AND, I assumed they had their own raidbots / simc infrastructure for APLs and testing scenarios.

[hard widget]

So much of this is just public perception. Just look at what they did with Rested XP / Fatigue

[left perch]

Actual indie dev company, it sounds like.

[edgy widget]

like the perception was that (random class) is underpowered, even if their internal numbers don't really support that idea, and because of that people aren't playing it as much, so they buff it by +1% to excite people to try it again and suddenly they think the spec is amazing... even though that +1% had very little impact on actual performance

e.g. the illusion of balance being more important than actual balance

[hard widget]

People are happy if a number goes up even if its artificial

[quiet geyser]

i mean, fury got nerfed like 8x in a row when we were already pretty down bad, cuz we fill 1 small niche role of immediate AoE burst. you trust Blizz way too much

[edgy widget]

I mean blizz wasn't really wrong to nerf Fury, the complaint at the time was that they were nerfing the thing it was strong at without propping up the thing it was weak at.. which just left it weak across the board

[left perch]

this was me going “damn, they must have data or insight that we just don’t. Surely they can’t be that far off the mark” 🤦‍♂️

[edgy widget]

And to their credit, Blizz did (eventually) shore up those weak points

[hard widget]

If blizzard is truely interested in balancing for a "competitive setting" (which WoW is not intended to be) then they wouldve split M+ from raid in terms of tuning like they did with PVP a long time ago and consider all 3 elements of the game seperately with dedicated teams of people that actually know what the f is going on

[edgy widget]

and I think Fury is in a very comfortable spot atm because of it - certainly not OP or meta, but not really bad either

[quiet geyser]

A, singular nerf sure. maybe 8 in a row (or whatever it was) was a bit much lol

[left perch]

What do you mean, each of those 3 game play aspects has its own great vault row!

[quiet geyser]

the 3% aura was bogus

[edgy widget]

Sure, but that's more to do with the piecemeal nature of things

[hard widget]

Yeah about that too. Stop forcing me to raid for M+ gear. Dont make me do delves for gear. Dont make me do PVP for gear. Just lemme do what i want

Make gear scale in raid / m+ / pvp
Depending on where u looted it

[edgy widget]

the moment to moment part was aggravating, I agree
the end result has worked out well enough for us though (even more so, considering WCL is now working to disclude all the things we're good at that got nerfed)

[edgy widget]

except if there wasn't interplay between those systems, half the playerbase would never touch them

M+ participation would nosedive if you fully separated M+ and raid gear

[hard widget]

Yeah now we touch them because we have to. Aint much better

[left perch]

Those nerfs also suffered a bit from “this is too strong in raid” and impacting other gameplay areas. And like you said not getting weak parts propped up. And then watching or “too strong” things not get attention.

[edgy widget]

I know, that was my argument at the time as well

[hard widget]

Yeah and all that does is create a toxic enviroment of people being somewhere they dont want to be taking up spaces of people trying to actually progress the system

[edgy widget]

like I said though, to their credit, blizz did eventually get there

[edgy widget]

I don't think that's true at all lol

nobody who doesn't want to be in M+ is taking up your spot

because the people who don't want to be in M+ aren't doing over +10 anyway

[hard widget]

Not mine

But others

[quiet geyser]

Blizz is notorious for making you play content you dont want to. I mean look at the finery system lol

if your guild is extending

its horrible

[edgy widget]

that's not just blizz, it's a pretty common game design system to encourage people to engage in different types of content

[hard widget]

I can tell you Archi, loads of people struggle getting into weekly keys

I might not be one of em, and maybe you arent either. But it definitely is there

[edgy widget]

ofc they do, there are always more people than there are spots

[left perch]

Public perception plays a lot there too ^

[edgy widget]

any system in which the ability to form groups is in the hands of the player will work out that way

[hard widget]

Yeah, so just let people play the content they like. Make upgradeable loot drop for M+ that scales to x ilvl ONLY IN M+
same for raid
same for pvp

Problem solved

[edgy widget]

Darktide just added their own version of it, after having previously only using automated matchmaking, and people are real quickly learning how fubar it is to try to find groups lol

that's just human nature, there's no avoiding it

[hard widget]

Raiders filling up vaults in m+ aint gonna do anyone favours, just like how M+ players in pvp leaching aint doing anyone favours

[edgy widget]

solving one problem by creating another isn't realy a great solution though

[hard widget]

What problem tho?

[edgy widget]

M+ participation will nosedive

[hard widget]

At +10's

[edgy widget]

which is the vast majority of keys

[hard widget]

Yeah that nobody wants to do to begin with but forced to do

[edgy widget]

How much support do you think future M+ seasons will get if the vast majority of players stop engaging with the system?

I'll give you a hint: go look at PvP development over the last 20 years

hope you're happy with one new dungeon per expansion

[hard widget]

Now its terrible just the same

So i dont really see the difference to be honest

[edgy widget]

no, it's terrible in a different way

[left perch]

Raiders filling vaults in m+ feels more like a lootmaxxing issue than m+ issue

[edgy widget]

but in a way that continues to promote high engagement among the majority of the playerbase

[hard widget]

Its terrible because they care more for raid than M+

[edgy widget]

they've always cared more about raid than M+, because raid is the game's top level activity

that's never gonna change

[hard widget]

Raid is only a top level activity because they dont allow m+ to be

[edgy widget]

Yes, because that's their design goal

[hard widget]

Because m+ is just shit compared to raid in terms of tuning

[quiet geyser]

I mean, games been like that since vanilla

[left perch]

As someone who will likely never mythic raid again, I support that.

[edgy widget]

they want people to raid, raiding is what makes WoW (mostly) unique

moreso than anything else raiding is WoW's hallmark group activity, and has been since its inception

[hard widget]

Yeah but it doesnt work, they have 2 visions at the same time

Cather towards the masses

[edgy widget]

sure it works

[hard widget]

And then also force people into 1 piece of content

[edgy widget]

it's not perfect, but nothing is

everything has a problem

[hard widget]

So why not let their problems be their problems

[edgy widget]

their problems are their problems

[hard widget]

And not make those issues spread to other category's

[edgy widget]

your problem is you want the game to be something it isn't lol

[hard widget]

That is not really what i'm saying here

I'm just pointing out that M+ is horrible because of the way that they decide to not split the communities up because they rather force people into content they dont want to do to make it look more active than it is

[edgy widget]

I know what you're saying, but again, it's like that on purpose - they want players to engage in different forms of content. While some people don't enjoy it, it is good for the game as a whole

because diversifying everything into its own tiny little bubble dilutes playerbases, and ultimately leads to features getting pulled back or cut entirely because not enough people engage with them to make it worth developing

[hard widget]

Which is already what is happening

Because people quit left right and center

[rose bay]

i wish they tied pvp more with M+ and raid, Hate that they decoupled pvp from pve after the legendary cape

[hard widget]

Because the system sucks

[edgy widget]

To a point (PvP), but as a whole it's remained healthy enough to continue on for 20 years

[edgy widget]

they've gone back and forth on it yeah, feels like every other expansion they change their mind

[hard widget]

I genuinely think that their approach this season is absolutely horrible in loads of ways

[edgy widget]

which is indicative that there is no real perfect solution

[rose bay]

Agreed its a diffrent skillset, its fun 2 learn, and it adds playtime to this game, can only do one activity so much till u burn out or get bored

[left perch]

yea, because I’ve enjoyed this season quite a bit for reasons I didn’t think I would

[rose bay]

Also can wcl stop fucking removing damage sources from logs? People know how to filter to see whose just clowning on aoe. + if ur strong enough to pad on mythic let us have our cake

[sour karma]

Look at it from the other direction, splitting these groups now means people who like doing both M+ and raiding (a probably not insignificant part of the group) now need to maintain two completely separate gear sets for the content they enjoy doing

[hard widget]

One thing i still cant wrap my head around by the way is that there isnt any catchup mechanic for crests

[rose bay]

people do it fer diffrent specs

[edgy widget]

that too

[sour karma]

If I had to deal with regearing for M+/raid after clearing M+ or raid, I'd probably just quit

[hard widget]

You need to do 50 hours of non stop m+ at this stage to be capped at crests. U'll have plenty of time

[sour karma]

Why the hell am I capping crests

I'm not a CE raider

[rose bay]

and yeah wouldent mind a crest catch up, maybe one more crest a week or something

[hard widget]

If you enjoy doing m+ and raid and be somewhat serious about them ur gear is above 630 AT LEAST

[edgy widget]

not to mention, how does it work when you get to stuff like world content? Torghast 3.0 gonna be raid gear, M+ gear, another set of gear?

[rose bay]

i personally vote for a combo system, every key u time doubles the next amount of crest u get, stacks up to 100, as soon as u deplete u break ur score and have to build it up again

make M+ more toixc

[warm crag]

finally a sane take in skyhold

[sour karma]

"enjoy" doesn't mean "this is the only thing I do". It means I like doing them when I do them, but as soon as I hit KSM/KSH and/or AOTC I still stop so I don't burn myself out on the game entirely

[hard widget]

I said it like this. As long as ur under 50% of the cap, give 3x crests. if ur 50-75% give 2x crests if ur 75%+ give normal crests

Problem solved

[rose bay]

same i hate M+ but i still do it cause i dont wanna let down the team with only my shitty abilities lol

Shits boring

[sour karma]

Like my guild does mythic but we aren't CE, we got to 4/8 and said "yeah good enough, break time"

[hard widget]

Thats completely fine, and i respect you playing the game in the way that you enjoy. But at those levels, none of these things we're discussing forms an issue

[rose bay]

i think thats kinda the wrong take, everything people do to ballance the high end tends 2 fuck us troglodites

[clever path]

just downed princess. i only had 32 pulls on it LOL guild had way more but we had people out tonight

[hard widget]

They are already kind of doing this. Just for 90% around raid

[sour karma]

Which is my point, this "issue" is for a fraction of a percent of the playerbase.

[edgy widget]

people who only engage with the high end tend to forget that they are in the extreme minority when it comes to the overall playerbase

[rose bay]

yeah welcome to being a minority

[sour karma]

Most people never even get AOTC let alone clear normal

[rose bay]

ITs healthy

[edgy widget]

and while I do raid at a high(ish, not as high as I used to) level, I'm personally more in your boat now - I'm long past the point of wanting to live and breathe WoW 24/7, I want to be able to enjoy other things

[rose bay]

If we balance for the top 10% not even the top 1 this game is gunna preform a wildstar

same been in for 20 years

glimmers gone

[hard widget]

Archi, you know just as well as me. That they are cathering towards high end. The difference being that its raid related, not M+ related.

[edgy widget]

I still enjoy the game, but I don't want or need to play it 8 hours a day every day

[rose bay]

Im happy to raid attempt ce, get my +s pvp at an okish enough level then i wanna play something else

its ok its still a part time job when i do /play :p

just not a full time one

[edgy widget]

I binge at the start of a season, but halfway through I'm pretty well done - just raid logging and doing whatever new patch activities come up

[rose bay]

ditto!

i take time off and get my wife a game when a new season starts so i can no life for 2 weeks - a month

[edgy widget]

I haven't done a M+ in over a month and I'm happier for it lmao

[rose bay]

Bastard :C im still runing

[hard widget]

Doesnt that kind of prove the system sucks tho?

[rose bay]

No doubt it fuckin sucks, but i think making it easier, not harder is the solution

[hard widget]

Why would we need to force a player like you into m+ Archi, as you very obviously do not want to do it

Let them make it rewarding for you to do what you like to do, instead of having to do stuff you dont want to do and also "hindering" people that actually try to do the keys that ur signing for but never get in because ur far higher geared / skilled

[edgy widget]

I don't see how it has any bearing on the value of the system, if anything its a benefit that I don't feel compelled to keep doing it day in and out for months on end

[hard widget]

(dont read this wrong. He is not hindering people. I'm talking about the system making it that way)

[edgy widget]

If I actually felt like I needed to do 10 or more +10 keys a week still at this point in the tier, I'd probably suck start a shotgun

[sour karma]

That's a good one, I'm gonna use that

[edgy widget]

the point of these system should never make people feel like they have to keep engaging, they only need to reward people who want to

[edgy widget]

don't thank me, credit kurt cobain

[hard widget]

You have to keep engaging if you want myth track gear, because they made it 13 ilvls higher than heroic gear.

[sour karma]

Honestly I think the whole "if you want CE you should be chain-running M+ every week" is a player perception issue and not a game system one

[warm crag]

if you are planning to get CE with only reclear gear in the games current state you are griefing your guild

[edgy widget]

Myth track gear is obtainable from other sources though, so again I don't have to keep doing M+
I could and it would increase my likelihood to get that gear, but that comes down to a personal decision of how much I care to improve my chances week to week

[rose bay]

Yeah none of our healers do +

[edgy widget]

my guild is still on ansurek and I can unequivocally state that gear had no bearing on our ability to kill the last two bosses

it's 100% mechanics at this stage

[hard widget]

I think its not a great argument to say this is only based on CE tho, if you struggle at any form of content, might it be AOTC. And you are not actively trying to help your guild / yourself achieving it by not participating at all, what is the point of u even logging in. You might as well watch a video of other people killing it at that point

[sour karma]

Not only reclear, but 8 for full myth vault is overkill imo. A lot of it feels like it's using gear to cover up mechanical fuckups

[hard widget]

Which is Mythic raid, which we established the majority doesnt do

[edgy widget]

ok so then what's your point? You have to keep doing M+ to get M+ gear to do M+?

[warm crag]

sure, but what's your average ilvl and how influenced is that by having run m+ vaults until it wasnt worth your time anymore

[sour karma]

Like Archi, I would say most guilds don't have a gear issue if they're not getting past a fight

Anecdotal, but for mine gear (e.g thoughput and tank survivability) were never the reasons we had issues in heroic or mythic

[warm crag]

early season it was giga important to pad out the myth tier slot chances and if you extended early enough to pad out whatever you're missing

[edgy widget]

it partially depends on the fight, but Court + Queen specifically are complete mechanics hurdles; the post nerf performance checks are rather low

[rose bay]

Alright hear me out

[hard widget]

You know what my point is Archi, but the difference is that you are at a point where u "dont care" to get it anymore in terms of gear. You are a good player that can do the content with piss gear. Others can barely get AOTC with very great gear. People are being gated by needing to do things they dont want to do in order to clear content they DO want to do (i know sounds confusing)

[edgy widget]

no you're twisting what I said

[warm crag]

its true that court and queen are mechanics checks but its certainly made easier by more gear

[hard widget]

That is giga contradiction to what u said earlier, because that is basically "git gut"

[warm crag]

court falls before the final damage amp and a bit more hp and damage is very comfy on queen to skip the final mechancis

[edgy widget]

I said specifically that I don't feel the need to do M+ anymore, which is a good thing for me
you countered with "well I need to do M+ to get gear because I don't raid"
which is fine, but you're doing M+ anyway, so your issue is handled naturally

and if you're not doing M+ anyway and you're not raiding... then you don't really need the gear, now do you? Hence the entire argument falls apart

[hard widget]

I think we're misunderstanding eachother. I'm saying people that like raiding need to do m+ in order to get good gear

[rose bay]

what if the vault, just let u pick one slot, and you could pick and get the best est head from the game. Then u do that with every slot for 16 weeks. Then all the high end M+ players can just do M+ in a perfect system and all the raiders can do raiders in a perfect system and we could make the gear scale to 700 ilvl in pvp

[sour karma]

People that like CE raiding. M+ is irrelevant for AOTC

[hard widget]

That is not true at all

[edgy widget]

they do to a point, I did that as well at the start of the season and I think that's perfectly fine

they don't need to binge it for months on end though, and if they've been playing the whole season, then like me they should have long since reached the point where they no longer need to do it - maybe there's 1 or 2 items left they could get, but they certainly don't need to cap every week

[rose bay]

Yeah good think the race 2 world first did 0 M+

[hard widget]

But like i said, thats because you are a good player and better than LOADS of players in this game. Making you able to clear content with far less gear than other people

[hard widget]

They ran 24 splits

[edgy widget]

it's not about being able to clear with loads less gear

I'm still not done clearing and I don't have loads less gear either

[rose bay]

And still did +s

but they didnt need 2 i guess

[hard widget]

I'm talking m+ for vault purposes

[edgy widget]

again, if they've been playing since the start of the season, they should have gotten more than enough crests to craft or upgrade basically every slot at this point

[hard widget]

And they definitely did +10's

[tender cape]

im 635 Ilvl andi have done M+ for like 2 weeks

[edgy widget]

they might still want to do M+ to get a specific item (e.g. I don't have a max ilvl mark) but they should absolutely not feel the need to max M+ vault each week for lack of overall gear

[tender cape]

havent

[hard widget]

Idk man, i understand your points but i have a different stance on it

[tender cape]

i do M raid but i dont get loot every week

[edgy widget]

I don't know how anyone could think they still need to do 10+ keys each week for gear if they've been playing since the start of the season

unless they're just hunting specific items

[rose bay]

Can i send this to my guild?

[tender cape]

at this point its hunting in the vault not in the dungeons

[hard widget]

I respect the opinions, and idea's behind it. And also the way you guys enjoy the game. But i just see it differently

[rose bay]

snipping and posting

I WILL BE FREE

[tender cape]

you do 8x +10 and pray you get an ara scarebrood

[rose bay]

that and mostly im just used for the alt tredmill

[edgy widget]

again, I don't have a max ilvl mark - I could hunt for it, but the time:reward ratio of doing 10+ keys each week for the chance of getting the one minor upgrade I could still use just isn't there

[hard widget]

I think the problem is more that ur just too good of a player for the level of content ur aiming to do Archi

[rose bay]

Archi your stuck on court 2 right?

[edgy widget]

I mean maybe, but I really don't think so

[rose bay]

can u tell blizz to let me suck 15 balls?

[hard widget]

So u'd never get into a problem like this

[edgy widget]

na we're about halfway through queen

[rose bay]

Dammit

gl on queen!

[edgy widget]

again, a max ilvl Mark really wouldn't affect my ability to kill bosses

[hard widget]

I think it does more than you think

[edgy widget]

it's like a 0.3% upgrade, on bosses that are entirely mechanics checks anyway

[sour karma]

^

[rose bay]

[edgy widget]

what would really help is if I'd stop being lazy and farm crests to craft a ring, but with 11.0.7 coming in 2 weeks I can't really be bothered

[rose bay]

Oh shit its in 2 weeks?

fuck yeah

bout 2 be op as fuck

[edgy widget]

Yeah, though it will take a couple weeks to unlock all the ring shit

[hard widget]

Yeah lets get excited about a timegated ring in 2 weeks that will keep us hostage for 6 weeks after! Whoo

[rose bay]

why

+s do it

why cant a ring

fucking sackbrood

[tender cape]

i got lucky in a vault and got M track skarmo shard

just do your +10's every week and pray my man

[rose bay]

just do 1 + 10 the chances u get what u need are 50/50

u either get it or u dont

[sour karma]

my man

[tender cape]

mood

[edgy widget]

unironically, I got broodtwister ring that way

[rose bay]

:C

[foggy pine]

hey guys I'm outr of topic but its the right place to ask questions about build ?

[edgy widget]

I was sitting most bosses on reclear, had one vault slot and got it

[hard widget]

No we only doom and complain here

[rose bay]

Maybe if i had a twister ring the guild wouldent be in ball pit hell

[foggy pine]

lets complain then

[rose bay]

Hey dooming is part of playing wow! been dooming since 2004

[hard widget]

What is it ur looking for Kuro haha

[tender cape]

i hate M+ this season

[foggy pine]

I need some advice I'm about to put my wrist 619 to 636 and I'm thinking about the best embellishment to take depending to what I will take. I have choice 1 take in my vault a second 2h to have 2 weapon 639 which is normally the best option to take or i can follow raidbots and instead take khardros 639 on the vault but I already got skarmorak 639 so it will be a waste.
here is my raidbots result:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2uFFpbH4c6m2hJ4Aj9SjA5

[tender cape]

: )

[hard widget]

Im gonna pass this one to Archi 🙂

I just realised i gotta go to the dentist

[foggy pine]

gl for dentist

[hard widget]

It was a joke to dodge the question

[foggy pine]

oh i'm a war

[hard widget]

Ur second best result on ur simc is just the wrist / belt

[foggy pine]

i take everything on first meaning

[edgy widget]

• if you're mostly focused on raiding, I'd stick with the embellished weapon
• if you're more focused on M+ then maybe consider doing double stat embels and getting a weapon

what is the second result even taking from the vault?

[hard widget]

nothing

[edgy widget]

yeah doesn't look like it

[hard widget]

Socket angle

[foggy pine]

raidbots dont care

[edgy widget]

could do socket, but honestly I think Mark is better than Skarshard for Fury

[hard widget]

Nah it doesnt care because u havent simmed with the proper embellishments etc, skarmorak is pretty much always worse than Khardos

[edgy widget]

probably not by a lot though, so that one is kinda up to you

[foggy pine]

and the princess trinket at 626 is better if i listen raidbot

[edgy widget]

Skarshard gets the neat little buff when adds die, but Fury's (raid) damage is so concentrated, that I think Mark is just better regardless, even on a fight like broodtwister

maybe a different story in M+ though

[hard widget]

No not really

Khardos is just better

[edgy widget]

do another sim and see what a socket would add, might help inform your decision

[hard widget]

Neglectable difference tho imo

[edgy widget]

Unless you're really focused on M+ though, I personally wouldn't recommend weapon - just keep using the embellished one

and then decide between Mark or a socket (put it on whatever item you won't replace easily, probably hat)

[tender cape]

if you have to chose between both at the same ilvl ye swap em out for content

[hard widget]

I think even for m+ just stick with raid embellishments tbh

Prio dmg / boss dmg is important

[sour karma]

That's what I do

[edgy widget]

I do, but I'm not a serious M+ player 😛

[sour karma]

just because I'm lazy

[hard widget]

Im lazy too

But also it doesnt do that much more

[tender cape]

l m a o

[hard widget]

And its not prio

[tender cape]

honestly i dont think theres a point in even doing double stat emb if you dont have grp to play with

[foggy pine]

with socekt i got 1.1%

[tender cape]

your gonna spen 100k gold on teeny better stats to just queu for 5Hrs to get into a +12 thats gonna last 2 pull before disband

stick wiht wrist and weapon embe

[edgy widget]

I don't either, but gotta include the option for completeness sake

hypothetically, if you were someone who just did M+ and didn't really raid, then I think it'd be a better option, but I agree that the practical difference really doesn't matter

[foggy pine]

guys you right

[tender cape]

it would

it would also be a good option if M+ this season wasnt ass

[foggy pine]

and its sso funny that i ask taht during your talk

[edgy widget]

that's the secret, I'm always right (even when I'm not)

[noble oracle]

Anyone knows the rating for this current season's 0.01%?

[foggy pine]

i just want to uninstall wow

[tender cape]

idk how i made it to 3k

https://tenor.com/view/pepe-smoking-sadge-pepe-smoking-pepe-sadge-gif-16948267171533269841

[fickle cedar]

You don't like the m+ vault treadmill ?

[edgy widget]

Na, I'm a PoE 2 and Darktide main now

[fickle cedar]

based, been playing marvel rivals with some friends, how's poe 2

[edgy widget]

it's... pretty

[foggy pine]

listening to archi i should take kardros

[edgy widget]

the animations and visual fidelity are great
in every other sense though, it's very much the Classic to PoE 1's Retail

[sour karma]

PoE 2 dragged me out back, beat me up and took my lunch money

It's great

[fickle cedar]

Oh that's nice, heard there was some tuning issues but no idea

[edgy widget]

Well no, I told you to sim socket and then decide between it and Mark - if socket is worth +1.1% and Mark is worth <1% then I think that's a clear winner

[edgy widget]

there definitely are, but I mean... it's PoE, the game has more tuning issues than WoW lol

ARPGs are the very definition of untuned

early game is rough for pretty much everyone, but melee is especially oppressed due to the lack of tools and inherent dangers of having to close to melee range

[fickle cedar]

Yeah I suppose that's also part of the fun, I might try it during Christmas break then, i was planning on waiting until it was free

[sour karma]

Also bosses that are fast af while you feel like you have superglue on your shoes

[summer quail]

same, was sorc. did not do well, swapped to warrior and doing great now

[sour karma]

That's literally the opposite to me

Started on warrior, got punked by Draven, then switched to merc

[summer quail]

i just press shockwave totem, when armor breaks i leap slam.

[sour karma]

[edgy widget]

break armor is a trap, unless you're building into the passive tree for i

shockwave totem is good when you get it, but falls off very quickly after

[sour karma]

Seems like stun and freeze is where the meta is going

[summer quail]

even with this?

[edgy widget]

well I would consider that building into it tbh, since you're dedicating talents to it

I was referring more to the Armor Breaker ability

[rose bay]

How is darktide with the changes to how you obtain weapons

[summer quail]

ohh, ye i only have this for breaking armor

[rose bay]

is it time to get back on the ogryn?

[edgy widget]

it's jokes

you don't need to farm for anything ever

[rose bay]

God bless

Fucking hated that shit

[edgy widget]

just buy a few randoms of the type you want until you get the stat roll you want, upgrade it all the way, put the perks/blessings you want on it and done

• it's nice in the sense that you can get what you want
• it's kinda bad in the sense that drops are completely meaningless now - there's no farming or "reward" whatsoever, the idea of getting a good roll or whatever is nonexistent since you can craft everything

[rose bay]

reward is completing the mission

[edgy widget]

to a point, yeah

[rose bay]

but yeah no carrot

just play for playing sake

[edgy widget]

which is great when the play is fun, but I do think it's nice to have a little bit of a chase

and to be fair, the play is fun - they just released some new weapons btw

[rose bay]

but yeah time 2 go dump some more time in then!

[edgy widget]

Ogryn got a heavy stubber which is basically a hybrid autocannon sniper rifle

Zealot got big ass fuck you 2h relic power blades

Psyker got force swords that shoot a wave of literal fuck you

and Veteran got dick

[sour karma]

This is lore-accurate tbf

[rose bay]

Yeah time to dust off my copy of ogrynomics then and see what im rolling

[edgy widget]

tbf Veteran didn't really need anything

they just added a Mythic+ like Havoc progression system which is currently experiencing all the same issues as WoW, so that's been fun to watch

[rose bay]

Lol

[willow cradle]

Oh shit we talking about Darktide?

[edgy widget]

Yeah I play it semi regularly

[willow cradle]

How's the new update?

[edgy widget]

the weapons are awesome

the havoc system is kinda doo doo unless you play with dedicated groups

[rose bay]

To, kinda be fair i felt like auric missions where kinda the same?

[sour karma]

Boy that sounds familiar

[edgy widget]

it's literally M+, they added a whole (non-matchmade) party finder system and they're experiencing the same shit that WoW players been complaining about for years - too many people, not enough groups

[rose bay]

like a ton of the pug runs fell apart

[edgy widget]

na, they were still matchmade pug

[rose bay]

True!

sorry mostly ment the pugs kinda wiped out a lot

[edgy widget]

new system is a party finder system, like M+

[rose bay]

ahhh

ew

Yeah no thats gunna be a rough transition to go from auto fill to classic

[edgy widget]

coming from WoW, its kinda fun watching people react to this

[rose bay]

(blizz plz bring in solo q M+ nothing could go wrong i swear dont look at the pvp game modes)

i mean hey

people on wow react to it 2

the same way

[edgy widget]

yeah but it's been around so long on WoW it's just exasperating

[rose bay]

gotcha so this is fresh hell

[willow cradle]

Neato, that's always great to hear.

As for the new group system, that isn't much of an issue for me but I can see why that would suck

I was really happy with the weapon progression system revamp they did

[edgy widget]

but yeah basically

• Havoc is a + scale of increasing difficulty modifiers. Completing missions increases the difficulty you can attempt, just like M+ but without the keystone (or rather, the keystone is "built in" to you, instead of a standalone item)
• you can increase your personal Havoc level in real time by completing groups you start
• your havoc level will also increase weekly, based on the highest group level you did

So if I am havoc+5, I can run up to +5 missions, and if I run the game and complete the mission, I can increase that to do higher difficulties

but if I join someone else's +10, I don't increase my level until the start of the week (also kinda like how M+ works)

[rose bay]

maybe there gunna add some more cosmetic rewards

[edgy widget]

so its a little wonky, but basically M+ in Darktide

yeah there are some cosmetics and stuff already

[rose bay]

hell yes i wanna dress my hillbilly

[sullen dove]

so ulgrax strat will be popping cds and doing damage for like 5 seconds before intermission starts with them yeah

[edgy widget]

ulgrax strat will be speccing ST and never saving CDs for adds

[sullen dove]

pogchampion

[edgy widget]

in fact, you'd be better off saving them for the boss instead of using them on adds

[rose bay]

yeaah

no add phase is sof uckin cringe

i hope we wipe to bugs on the alt run

[sour karma]

So arms then, kill me

[sullen dove]

fury st is like about the same anyway

and its ulgrax who cares

whatever ur better at is what u get the higher parse in

most of the time

[sour karma]

Yeah I know, I don't bother switching anymore. Never could figure out what I was doing wrong with arms anyway

Always just felt off

[edgy widget]

also affects queen a little, but not as much since most people are immuning roots anyway

really just means that you shouldn't save CDs to try to snipe roots, just use them as they're available

[rose bay]

my fucking parrrse

REEEE

maybe its arms time

[final birch]

I just used to send sr for dr just before 2nd roots and then of for 2nd roots

[sour karma]

Don't do it, it's not worth it

[final birch]

since u're gonna hold the of for last roots (at least in my guild I was breaking the people on that set)

[final birch]

ngl I dont mind it when I saw the criminal stuff people did there

[edgy widget]

Yeah that's the only real decision, there's an argument to hold anyway just so you can free up SR

and as long as it doesn't affect how many OFs you get, it shouldn't matter either way

[final birch]

yeah

also

[edgy widget]

but you could game it a little bit to make sure you got some free damage on roots before, which just won't matter now

[final birch]

while it was rare, it did happen - some people fucked up their root immunes on that set

either hunter forgot to dispel or something, shit happens

so u always have some small burst to possibly free someone there

[edgy widget]

I'm playing Perfect Strike + Leap/Boneshatter Titan btw, lots of fun

I thought about going Warbringer to try the armor breaking stuff, but the ability left a bad taste in my mouth, so I skipped it

[summer quail]

hell yeah

i thought about going titan but wanted totem stuff(never played totems in poe before)

[edgy widget]

Never been a big fan of totems personally, too much maintenance

[summer quail]

we'll see how i feel about them after a while, so far it's great. gonna try all kinds of builds in early access, in poe1 i mostly played mines/traps

[edgy widget]

for trash, I just Leap -> Boneshatter -> Leap -> Boneshatter

bosses just go man mode

[summer quail]

only tried sorc and warrior thus far. did not like sorc, but i've heard mixed reviews on lightning sorc. some have had grea success, others not so much(like me)

[edgy widget]

Merc is really smooth

[summer quail]

what support gems on perfect strike?

[edgy widget]

Martial Torpedo (faster attack) + Window of Opportunity + Fire Infusion

once you have T2 supports, you could do Heavy Swing instead of faster or fire as you prefer; it's a little stronger, though I prefer the reactivity of a faster swing

[summer quail]

cheers

[edgy widget]

only really use perfect strike for big targets and bosses though, basically if something doesn't die to leap + shatter

I also have Sunder for the occasional packed hallway of death, and basic mace strike to finish off random whatevers; Infernal Cry and Shockwave Totem are there but hardly ever get used

[rose bay]

what the fuck this looks fun as hell

[edgy widget]

it's very satisfying

[silk wharf]

Damn, just saw the updates Archi posted. Some people must be real salty at fury warrior.

[edgy widget]

na just poopy players who think they'll suddenly be able to parse if nobody ever gets damage from AoE

[rose bay]

my cringe take is the only people who should vote are people who have logs of that conent cleared

[edgy widget]

my cringe take is if they wanna do a vote they should go out of their way to advertise the vote

although tbh I think voting is a poor way to go about these things, even if you could somehow distill it down to just people who have engaged with the content

[silk wharf]

Should just all get together and let people rot in their silken tombs on heroic.

[rose bay]

i hate when they do this, they did it for classic, now there doing it here

[heavy tinsel]

Lads

Is there a recruitment channel in this discord? Or section

[clever path]

YE'VE GOT TAE DODGE!

[covert blaze]

it was very visible tbf

[rose bay]

yeah sept i couldent log in during the entire voting peroid ;C

[edgy widget]

I'm told there was a "little line on the frontpage" of WCL, but

• Who goes to the front page of WCL anymore?
• it wasn't on their discord
• it wasn't on their twitter
• it wasn't advertised in popular discords

[summer quail]

@oblique trail eyo benzai, i just realized i'm going pile on build

[covert blaze]

pretty sure every single wcl page

had the message on the top banner

like around here

[edgy widget]

Must not have been that apparent then, because I never saw it and I use it near daily

[covert blaze]

🤷‍♂️

the voting wasnt up for a long time

[edgy widget]

but again

• wasn't on their twitter
• wasn't on their discord
• wasn't on any other discord

I would absolutely call that "not going out of their way to advertise"

[rose bay]

they didnt wanna advertize

they just wanna hold up there change

[edgy widget]

I mean I don't even know that it would have changed the results of their vote (wouldn't know anyway, since I can't seem to find that anywhere either)

[covert blaze]

think the best way to keep up is their discord

[edgy widget]

but I do know that single source voting is a bad way to engage a broad community, especially when you don't advertise - Blizz can't even get 1% of their playerbase to vote on things

[edgy widget]

it wasn't in their discord either

search function shows a few people who talked about it in random channels, but it's not even in their announcements

[rose bay]

whats there discord responce to this?

positive? negative? neutral?

[edgy widget]

non-existent, barely anyone uses their discord regularly even when the game isn't in a lull

and after the last fiasco, I really don't care to argue about it anymore; it's clear they're just gonna do w/e they want

[rose bay]

agreed

kinda hate it

also wonder why

[edgy widget]

feels like the people in charge now have firmly decided they care more about their sense of rankings than the actual analytics

[rose bay]

eh they can rank me whatever, they cant unfuck the bosses adds

[clever path]

yeah tbh they keep making weird changes

then changing things back

[covert blaze]

the rashanan thing was a big mistake

[clever path]

to be fair though i couldn't care less about rankings

[rose bay]

i kinda like em

if there in a fight

it needs to die

simple ass

[clever path]

yeah like trying to make rankings "fair" just makes them more unfair lol

[rose bay]

fair for who?

[edgy widget]

might as well just make all stars based on boss dam instead of overall

[clever path]

true if they are gonna keep taking the adds out of stuff just make it all boss damage all the time for simplicity sake

[feral ivy]

I’m watching a video of queen and the warrior heroic leaped out of the circle where you take the portal. But I remember that someone said don’t do that because it reduces dmg or something idk if that was guild leader or rl or video

That true or no

[edgy widget]

na, afaik you can leap over the circle with no issue

[feral ivy]

Cool tyty

Going into queen and just watching videos and it seems simple . Pop cds on p1 when ev and sr the tomb. Pull in run into aoe and BS to not get pulled in and drop bad stuff on floor. And pop cd only on adds

In p3

[undone flower]

I voted when they announced it, I fell a little bit weird since I didn’t do ansurek mm, I’m a fucking fury etc, ( i voted to keep adds on first boss but remove tombs on both ansureks)

[edgy widget]

I don't mind tombs removed since they usually get immuned anyway, though I might have looked for a more elegant solution like "don't count tombs that don't fully die" instead of just removing all dam

[undone flower]

Im guess lazy to code or something im too clueless to draw opinion, and i voted because having less tombs is the best outcome

And also because I can’t hit them in heroic

But I can hit first boss adds….

How did I know about the vote, i never saw it outside of wcl, I saw it spamming me on top of each logs I was looking

[clever belfry]

tombs are more of an L on Blizzards side

Silly mechanic that restricts class variety unreasonably

(even post nerf its not trivial to get the requires freedoms, but definetly less ass)

[young swan]

yeah tindral roots are not a good mechanic

even if its fun to aoe giga blast them

[undone flower]

In my mind the remove is a W to me because I would have to compete with fury in groups full killing the tombs

[young swan]

i dont really care either way cause im in the same boat where my group immunes every set so theres no way I'll ever get to kill them

its more the pinciple that WCL thinks they can dictate the "correct" way to analyze fights

by removing metrics that might be important

[dapper goblet]

nelth adds still count

never forget

[young swan]

what they should do is just let it be

stop fucking with stuff

[clever belfry]

Time to get chain infested on brood

[clever belfry]

i think putting it to poll like they did is a reasonable approach

they've been doing that for a fucking while in classic, suprised it hasn't been used more frequently on retail

[red berry]

making changes this far into the season is wierd

weird

.

[ruby osprey]

there was a post on wowhead about the poll otherwise I'd have missed it completely here. Still not sure why they want to change those things

[heavy sparrow]

Isn't experience enrage extension basically completely worthless?

Oh you're gonna get 100% uptime on enrage instead of 99%?

Big deal

[young swan]

ive gotten use out of it on a couple raid fights

sometimes u get unlucky

[heavy sparrow]

Yea, but i don't know, it should probably be changed

They want to have full uptime on enrage? Just make it 5 sec base so being unlucky is a non factor at that point, and slightly change how it works

[young swan]

that talent is the least of my concerns in the tree

u wanna talk about things that are basically completely worthless go look at fresh meat, massacre, onslaught, smf, dancing blades

[south kayak]

[clever belfry]

heyhey DB does something if ure specced of but wanna do more st

smf is truely funny tho

spec smf
two handers still better

[heavy sparrow]

Massacre and onslaught is a problem of not being tuned high enough to be honest, experience i think is a fundamental design issue, it provides something that's not really needed

Massacre because exe is too weak, onslaught because it's weak and it's a node below experience

Fresh meat is useless becuase it does kinda what experience does, but like way worse

[golden hare]

what the hell is experience

[eternal sundial]

OS also just doesnt function without tenderize

Unlike of/the am/ra node

[heavy sparrow]

Deft experience

Well, 30 rage is pretty substantial to be honest

[golden hare]

ah

[heavy sparrow]

It's just been left behind compared to blow and bloodthirst

Because onslaught wasn't buffed while those 2 were significantly buffed

[young swan]

melees 2% dam btw

"something" is an overstatement

onslaught sucks

massacre was bad even when execute was "better" last expansion

[young swan]

its not tho, its just a nice accompaniment to the mastery

has nothing to do with "fundamental design"

its just a nice little bonus thats useful sometimes

if anything the other 2 are overtuned

although I think all 3 of those nodes are dogshit

deft is the most compelling to me interestingly enough

[clever belfry]

silly stat nodes should never have prio over real talents

[young swan]

correct

i dont get why they havent just removed the stat component and put real effects ther

literally just lazy design

just like 90% of the fury tree

[clever belfry]

class is doomed

[livid vigil]

does dungeon slice work for fury?

[young swan]

yeah

[serene light]

does pre popping spell reflect reduce the size of the absorb from Devour(weekly affix)? I can't tell if it is but I think it makes it small enough to remove the debuff with impending victory?

rather I can't tell if it's getting healed off from the healer or impending victory is doing it

[jade swan]

Good day fellow Warriors,

How are you doing today?

I have 2 requests if I may, please?

1- Is there any simple clean WA that shows countdown numbers for WW and other abilities to do the rotation properly without missing any steps?

2- Could someone share the best up to date talent for raids with Roar?

As always, Thank you so much for your help and assistance.

[eternal sundial]

1. go to wago.io and get any warrior hud

2. warcraftlogs

If ppl play spear drop it for roar but keep the 2 att points

[open prairie]

wouldnt playing roar just be playing aoe talents

[eternal sundial]

I mean st but roar

If u hate spear

Idk

[open prairie]

why would you play roar on kyveza or sikran

[young swan]

i mean

theres hardly a diff

its like 0.2% or something

[jade swan]

You know then. I do hate spear.

[clever belfry]

cause if u grief urself and uhhh uhhh dont spear before bladestorm in execute uhh

its not a big deal with roar

😎

[open prairie]

Idk spear is pretty noninvolved

but you also rarely play the no aoe talents

[young swan]

yeah its not a big deal anymore

[open prairie]

in this raid

how long is the crit amp window from spear again

[eternal sundial]

Greg

Miss spear

[eternal sundial]

6 or so

[open prairie]

HOW

player macro

[jade swan]

The question is, if I drop spear and picked roar, is there any other talent points to be replaced as well or no?

[open prairie]

no

[eternal sundial]

@fickle bluff

Player macro bad

[open prairie]

player macro goodge

[jade swan]

Well, I’ve seen players do so by replacing Berserkers Torment with Titan Torment? Or is it for Odyns?

[open prairie]

thats aoe

theres only 2 bosses you dont play aoe for anyway

[jade swan]

AoE as in cleave ?

[open prairie]

same diff

see adds spawning soon pop transmitter finish minigame

pop cds and spin

[jade swan]

So for court the best talent would be thane or stick to Slayer with some changes?

[eternal sundial]

Inta

[open prairie]

mythic court you can play thane

[open prairie]

no u

[jade swan]

Only heroic player here I do not play mythic raids since I started the game back in 2005 😁

[open prairie]

Idk heroic kind of

doesnt matter

you could play smf in heroic

[jade swan]

smf?