fury

[mossy fox]

ya i did some runs for fun yesterday and it felt fine, arms definitely better tho

but arms is very much high tier

[empty mirage]

first big algathar pull i just hit 500k, looked at dps chart and 2 mfers at 1.7 MILLION dps

[chrome summit]

y u should be able do 300k np. i havent rly got any gear upgrades yet and pulling that

[subtle lagoon]

Hate to say it but skill/gear issue

[mossy fox]

unless you have full potato char you should be doing more than 500k there

[subtle lagoon]

I've seen a bm hunter do 3mil

[mossy fox]

bm kinda owns there yea

destro will too but the lashers kinda die too quick on tyran

[empty mirage]

i hit 500k on that pull thought i was doing decent til i seen a mage and pal doing 1.7mil each

[eternal sundial]

that pull is all about rava and roar

nothing else u do does damage

[subtle lagoon]

Looking at specific pulls can be skewed because of cd downtime

[eternal sundial]

xd

[eternal sundial]

and a 30 target pull on a 5 target spec

[empty mirage]

that was the first pack of birds at second boss

he hit 1.5mil i just didnt screenshot in time

[subtle lagoon]

yeah pretty skewed, dumping all your cds on non-fortified birds can get you pretty high up there

[cinder pelican]

what s your ilvl koda ?

[empty mirage]

497

[subtle lagoon]

Overalls and boss damage matters more this week imo

[cinder pelican]

you should be higher than 183k overall tho

[nocturne dragon]

how much haste though? so I just don't go overboard.

[mossy fox]

i also hit 1.5m and ended around 1m on 1st pull of nokhud

just the usual double pack

[nocturne dragon]

how much haste you currently have critcake? the %

[mossy fox]

fury isnt tuned amazing rn but you cant blame your dps on the set/spec

[mossy fox]

im at like 41% lmao, too much haste on my high ilvl stuff

[subtle lagoon]

arms

[empty mirage]

29%

[nocturne dragon]

wait isn't 30% is the last season too? I mean between 25-30%

[gray nexus]

I'm still using s3 set and I think as fury i'm averaging around 300k in keys, still no 4 set for s4

[nocturne dragon]

Critcake is on speed with that 41%, well if too high then probably aiming 35 should be good and start pumping mastery.

Well Ryuga I also still on S3 set, I mean I do M+ but the catalyst is still once per week and my raid hasn't been lucky soo... it'll be a while before I can go back to S2 tier set.

[subtle lagoon]

He's on arms bruv

[nocturne dragon]

Oh I thought that 41% critcake answer is on fury.

[subtle lagoon]

nah he's just drunk and in the wrong channel (:

[nocturne dragon]

[mossy fox]

it was a fury answer

[subtle lagoon]

[empty mirage]

ill buy more haste gems after this mythic

[mossy fox]

leyline tracer and leggo

[nocturne dragon]

I mean that's what I thought too he answer for his fury since I asked in fury channel.

[empty mirage]

i dont have the leggo but i need it

[mossy fox]

my crafted neck is crit haste too that's another 1k haste i cant drop

[nocturne dragon]

but you can always recraft it right? previously 486 you recraft to 525 and change into crit/mastery for example.

[south kayak]

I have big haste too

council weapon

[nocturne dragon]

let's go giga haste like prot.

[empty mirage]

looks like im just pushing haste and mast then lmao

[mossy fox]

ya but im not recrafting every time i swap between arms and fury

[empty mirage]

wait you can recraft a s3 crafted into a 525

[eternal sundial]

back at 35%

loving it

cant wait to go to 45%

[empty mirage]

whts the name of the good haste gem i forgor

[visual breach]

so is double 2set a thing? or we not breaking old till new 4set

[empty mirage]

2 set sims higher atm for me at least

25% haste yikers

[sullen basin]

Is it my fault if I die to intermission on rasz (add threat)

Pulled threat away, didn't start with

Does that happen a lot

It happened a couple times from memory in season 1 on heroic but this was normal

[eternal sundial]

if you die to tanks being shit you arent to blame

if you run ahead and aggro without them on that add set

own fault

[sudden thicket]

Is it 90 aspect and 60 wyrms to fully upgrade the legendary?

Awakened 4->8 60 wyrms
Awakened 8->14 90 aspect

[oblique trail]

Yes assuming you don't already have a weapon above 502 ilvl

[sudden thicket]

Awesome thanks, just trying to budget for reset

[gilded obsidian]

has anyone crafted bsl? what sort of uptime are you managing to achieve with it in dungeons?

[paper ivy]

we now use blood thirst at 4 stacks?

[oblique trail]

You use it at >=95% crit chance

[subtle lagoon]

You use it when you hear kaching

[nocturne dragon]

I need the link to the kaching wa

[nocturne dragon]

Something including ysemerald on its name. If the main stat I think is the fierce illimited.

[flat river]

https://tenor.com/view/money-kaching-joel-comm-kaching-button-winning-gif-15739414

[upper mica]

signet brand obviously drops off in multi target but does it still hold its value because it can now proc off itself? or does rumbling ruby outweight it in M+

[crystal radish]

The stats prio are the same as the last season ?

versa-mastery>haste>crit ?

[paper ivy]

do u loose a lot of damage if u go over that?

[eternal sundial]

mast/hast/sim

[empty mirage]

thought it was haste mast

[oblique trail]

What I wrote is that you want to cast it at, or above, 95% crit chance on BT

If you hold your casts and just keep stacking it, you will lose damage

[crystal radish]

No versa ?

[eternal sundial]

sim will tell you that

[crystal radish]

But in theory ?

[eternal sundial]

some prolly

not as a turbo prio stat

since 80% of ur gear is locked anyways

[vague crest]

Someone in my ulda group was saying that on sentinel boss you should stun him before he even starts casting titanic empowerment because that will stop the bleed/stomp combo. I didn’t get a chance to test. Is that true? Is it better to stun before titanic empowerment even starts casting and does that reset the timer for it?

[rocky geyser]

do we play 2p 2p

or wait for new 4p

[empty mirage]

i just use the new s2 and its workin decently enough so far

2p*

[hardy cargo]

Supposed to wait for 4p but I’m really enjoying 2p2p with s2 talented and tenderize swapped to odyns

[rocky geyser]

sounds fun

[dense elbow]

Yes, you can skip a shard cast if you do this. If you fail tho, then you ramp the boss and take a buffed shard right after
If the one who manually stuns is confident and you got the DPS to not get overwhelmed by stacks, then it is worth

[empty mirage]

i just watched an arms do 1.7mil dps im swappin ive had enough lmao

[teal sable]

Do we get a Catalyst next week as well?

[oblique trail]

yes

[teal sable]

Yippee

[limpid kelp]

ill take it

[median marsh]

in the new rotation
if i am having already 100 crit on BT, and my rage is kets say 100, what should i priortize - rampage or BT?

[flat river]

does +10 now give u the portal?

or is it +20 and it's now just x2 harder

[frank dawn]

Wait, the catalyst is every week from the start this time?

[frozen lake]

Yep

[craggy river]

+10 is portal

[frozen lake]

They want this to be an accelerated season

[frank dawn]

Makes sense I just didn’t think that was happening lol

[hardy cargo]

ramp then bt

[dense elbow]

Dont worry, we are still crest capped - so not like we going to zoom through gearing

[frank dawn]

Yeah not worried about that lol just nice to have the charges. Like every piece of gear I’ve looted this week is in a tier slot I can’t use lol

[hidden axle]

How noticable is it to go from 4k mastery to 5k?

[oblique trail]

You wont notice anything except doing some more damage

[hidden axle]

Some, not like a bunch more?

[fluid scarab]

is the best think to do is to use ur awakened aspect to craft the boots with shadowflame passiv??

[humble plover]

It's a good option

Wrists too weather you wanna do shadow flame there or allied wrists

[fluid scarab]

the best lategame combo is allied wrists and shadowflame on boots right?

[humble plover]

In general. Think double sf is better in st. Arms also likes the allied wrists

[fluid scarab]

didnt know you could double it

ty man

[humble plover]

🫡

[tall cypress]

Hey all, I’m new to playing Fury for season 4 and was curious which weapons/trinkets are the best to spend bronze bullion on next week? 😎 I can’t decide if I should pickup the Infernal Shadelance or if there’s a better option

[humble plover]

If you don't have leggo ashkandur is the best

[empty mirage]

its wild how much of an improvement arms is already, dont even have good stats

[tall cypress]

Right on, yeah, I have the OG version from BWL raiding way back in the day, and I was digging Ashkandur’s model

[humble plover]

Yeah and it remains the best off hand when you do have the legendary

[tall cypress]

Is the elementium pocket anvil any good?

[eternal sundial]

yea for 5 min sims

[hardy cargo]

its good for ST I think bloodmallet has it just behind augury and signet brand

[tall cypress]

Right on

[nocturne dragon]

go for ashkandur + leggo

[nocturne dragon]

Speaking of more damage... why the stat priority change with our set change? I mean with the annihilator we want vers but why suddenly the vers priority dropped after the tierset back to S2?

[hardy cargo]

anger management likes haste

and mastery is always very good

[empty mirage]

i tried arms i cant do that shit lmao its so boring

[hardy cargo]

cleave gameplay is fun imo

hit a 850k ms the other day shit felt like a hit of crack

[empty mirage]

id have to regear for arms and i really cant be bothered

[idle socket]

would 2 set 2 set be worth going for or just keep s3 4 set?

[hardy cargo]

just waiting til 4 set I think is better for dps, but 2p2p is really fun if u play s2 talents and swap tenderize for odyns

[idle socket]

ok thank you

[empty mirage]

bro

ima LOSE MY SHIT

that shits funny tho

[hardy cargo]

[flat river]

arms might be "strong" yes but its not as fun as fury

[empty mirage]

i love the speed of fury

ima just thug out the lower damage

[flat river]

fury go BRRRRRRRRR

[empty mirage]

daswatimsayin

[flat river]

arms go BANG 3 seconds later BANG

[empty mirage]

yeah the pause while youre bladestorming feels weird lmao

[flat river]

slayer moment

[hardy cargo]

its bc bladestorm sucks (see my name and join the cause)

[humble plover]

vs

[empty mirage]

its just tuff when you blast them cds, got nothin left after that lmao

[left perch]

[dense elbow]

Remember to rename it:
Delete hurricane and hurricane jr

Those effects on the button that is supposed to be the payoff just plain outright sucks.

Go back to basics:
Press button to spin, damage value is distributed as you spin, fin.

[naive swallow]

anyone else getting stuck in the endless loop of applying but nobody invites , then listing and nobody applies either

all thanks to this io shit

[dense elbow]

Have you heard about being behind the curve? Yes, you are very likely that.

DO YOUR OWN KEY

[naive swallow]

and kindly for you , READ

[willow cradle]

I'd much rather play wow with the IO system then without where it becomes an even bigger gamble if the guys I invite are shitters

[naive swallow]

read the "nobody applies either" part

[dense elbow]

Doubt, but maybe you somehow are not in the 9-11 zone yet.

[naive swallow]

idk back in legion EVEN THOUGH there were many trolls overall

[willow cradle]

Just apply to lower keys to build your Io dude

[naive swallow]

people actually invites

[dense elbow]

Ppl dont invite you, because there are better options, simple as.

[naive swallow]

and yes im talking about +2s and +4s

[dense elbow]

Aight, what I did, I jumped tank - then pushed it to 8, then just went DPS from there. Done in 2 keys.

[naive swallow]

yeah whatever

[willow cradle]

Do you want solutions? Or do you just want to complain?

If it's the latter just say so, then others won't waste their time trying to help for a problem that doesn't want to solve itself.

[left perch]

To be fair, he’s asking for a system in which he could get invites - you are providing workarounds to the real issue

And that’s just that that LFG tool is kinda a queue simulator mini game

[sullen dove]

I sure have!!!

(Guild name)

[chrome plover]

there's like 20 dps per tank/healer applying to every group wcyd

[frank dawn]

Getting invites as a dps will never be easy

[chrome plover]

doesnt matter what class ur playing, if you arent way above the perceived requirements then you'll struggle

[dense elbow]

Nah, he is just whinging and whining, when there is a perfect doable solution.

He is lying infront of the well, screaming he cant reach the water, demanding a waterfountain. When there is a perfect functioning bucket with a rope right there installed.

Truth is, it would be quite easy to get to the water. The fact is that the effort to do so is too much for that individual. Why? Laziness, lack of experience, who knows...

In the end, it is what it is. Doing your own key, tanking it if it proves difficult to find a tank - solves everything.

[still swift]

we have a guy in shadow discord whos 1.7k io and 497 bags and he got 1 invite in 122 applications

for 7-8s btw

[chrome plover]

you get 50 people every tier in here doing the same thing 🤷‍♂️

[dense elbow]

yarp, if only they jammered about OF needing a buff instead - I would be on their side

[still swift]

buff dev

[chrome plover]

no 4p 505 ilvl no invite

[left perch]

Yea I guess the system works for how we want it too exactly

[quaint stag]

I’ve pugged as a dps warrior since s2 slands to get ksm. It just is what it is, sometimes you have to wait sometimes you get invited quick. Even when I got to 2.9k last season I still got declined for 18’s some weeks for vault

[left perch]

love to play tank when I want to play dps instead, fun game

[still swift]

am i good enough for inv? 🥺

[dense elbow]

Play tank to escape the deadzone keys, is smart. Allows you to reach the fun part faster

You dont have to - but, it is more time efficent.

[left perch]

optimize for time efficiency, not play what you want and enjoy

it’s a solution

[chrome plover]

man im so weak

[left perch]

it just kind feels bad

[dense elbow]

Vhys, if you want the water, just use the rope and bucket - dont stomp your feet going "whaaaaawhaaa I want water!"

[left perch]

You seem to be confused what water means in this context

I’d like to play a class and spec I enjoy, and I’d like to not waste a ton of time in queue.

shrimple as

[still swift]

no chawie ur strong and righteous and cool

[dense elbow]

Nah, you just seemed confused to what puting a bare minimum effort is.
You rather stand there whining, till someone takes pity and brings water to you.

Who knows, if you whine for long enough, and with enough ppl. Then Blizzard will pipeline the well, give you the waterfountain.

Keep at it, we all fight for our goals and wishes

[still swift]

kitty

you are a philosopher man

not a warrior

go hit up the mage discord or sth

with ur water wells

you can do much good if u conjure water for people

[dense elbow]

With OF going away - my mind is broken. No more rage left, only doomium.

[still swift]

[humble plover]

You can still talent into OF. It'll be really weak but shoot your shot

[dense elbow]

I will, whenever I amd doing content where it wont feel to bad gimping myself doing so

trust

[river viper]

Guessing going 2 - 2 isn't a viable option with the tier sets?

[frank dawn]

It can be, but generally, no

[river viper]

My only option now is going raid finder 😦 done heroic and normal and all I got was the token from the achievement

[frank dawn]

You have two catalyst charges on Tuesday + vault

[river viper]

ah good I think I will just save my [Awakened Mark of Mastery] and see what I get in the vault

[frank dawn]

Oh yeah for sure. Def save it

[clever path]

everyone name start with a

aaaa

[dense elbow]

wut

[inner crescent]

Just checked bloodmallet for trinket
Augury no longer bis for fury?

[dense elbow]

It is BiS, wdum

[river viper]

raidbots saying that the anvil is the BIS for me by a massive amount

[frank dawn]

Remember augury works both st and aoe

And no ramp/fall off

[worn ibex]

Not sure if it’s been answered, should we wait for 4 set tier or when we have two set switch to the new S4 talents?

[frank dawn]

For most people you want the full 4 set

But you can sim for yourself to be sure

[worn ibex]

Ok thank you!

[violet condor]

anyone know if the uncapped crests item bug is fixed yet?

[still swift]

the what

[olive wraith]

S3 aug compared to s4 anvil?

[left perch]

aug was kinda nerfed in s4 but was still used in high keys with mage/spriest/vdh comps iirc

[still swift]

wtf chatting from the future?

[left perch]

:dracthyrchuckle:

[still swift]

🐲

[violet condor]

there uncapped crests u can buy from the evokers in valdrakken but are bugged and give nothing

[torpid sand]

Another day of being a warrior and trying to pug for M+

[dense elbow]

Ya prob should just key up with your own, better to be one that choses one of the 1000, than being the 1 in a 1000.

[vivid moth]

I got memed on and given 2 mythic 1 handlers

[frank dawn]

SMF rising

You are the champion the talent needs, but not the one it deserves

[vivid moth]

I think it’ll work out for single target fights just drop the execute talents for the smf talents

I’m going to try that on reset and see what happens

[vague crest]

Thank you! Do you throw the stun on an actual Crushing Stomp cast (while the bleed is up)? Or do you just stun the boss a bit before shes about to start the cast for Titanic Empowerment and that staggers the timers?

[dense elbow]

You can track the shards, you want to stun just goes off. You can use that to push or stop the shards as needed for your healer and cds

[full portal]

Are we going double shadowflame now?

[grizzled granite]

no arms vs fury comparison sims yet?

[olive wraith]

There has been

Arms way ahead

[grizzled granite]

^^

like how many % ?

[olive wraith]

A lot

[grizzled granite]

sounds scientific

[olive wraith]

It’s true

Last I saw was 40k st

[grizzled granite]

how about dungeon slice?

[icy vine]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vThuWdF77rcZ3OF1a2xMgnMM5Udo8mpn9n3gx8IymKNabO-jg3LnE7LQV_t-EjQPcAzqiDdjztIOwZW/pubhtml

surely fury will get an aura buff

[grizzled granite]

ty, nice table. so in aoe fury kinda ahead still it seem

[olive wraith]

Huh?

What are you looking at

[grizzled granite]

the orange numbers. ST build and AOE builds

[olive wraith]

D slice or 5t

[grizzled granite]

seems they did only a cleave sim. says '5min 5 targets'

[open sage]

Can any1 link me a WA for the bloodthirst % crit stack for our 4set please i cant find 1 that actually works

[grizzled granite]

think there was one in them pinned messages

[dense elbow]

the one in the pins dont work?

[open sage]

didnt see that 1 my bad lads xD

[dense elbow]

[dapper goblet]

just saw some rough drafts of what they're buffing next week

[torpid sand]

just failed a +6 uld for 30 seconds

[nocturne dragon]

hmmm means +6 is quite tough already, I'll challenge it later when I got higher ilvl then.

I want the crest but it will be useless if I can't even beat it

[torpid sand]

i'm 495 just saying

and we died, like

25 times

wiped 3 or 4 times for Emberon

this boss is fucked

give us 2 more minutes blizz thanks

[oblique raft]

https://tenor.com/view/furina-genshin-genshin-impact-clorinde-dancing-gif-11641188306856420319

[fast mural]

didnt they reduce the timer by 4 min ?

[gusty cloak]

you guys macro elementium trink to anything?

[torpid sand]

based irys enjoyer

oh btw

[clever path]

Yeah, to DN

[torpid sand]

do you guys plan to keep fyralath

or you don't care to upgrade to a higher ilvl weapon

[clever path]

You can upgrade Fyralath

Fyralath+Asskandy is bis for pve

[frank dawn]

fyralath has the expanded awakend track too right? to go to 535

[oblique raft]

yupe

[gusty cloak]

whats dn? sorry

[south kayak]

how about nerfing the dungeon instead of increeasing timer

[tardy lark]

woo

[full portal]

What are you guys crafting first?

[dapper goblet]

i crafted bsl

[south kayak]

Something with bsl

[full portal]

Is 60% uptime even possible though?

[dapper goblet]

i think with even less uptime its still really good

but yeah its possible

also pretty easy to maintain in keys

only boss i've had it be subpar on is the 3rd boss of HOI

[full portal]

So would you do double bsl or vers wrist?

[dark elbow]

Vers wrist because i didnt want to die anymore

And forced to play prot

[fading sky]

Emberon u take zero dmg??

[torpid sand]

lmao hell no

[fading sky]

U reflect the dmg?

[dapper goblet]

double bsl sims highest

[fading sky]

I do

[dapper goblet]

but can play it safe and do vers wrists

[torpid sand]

You can reflect the damage, but he uses the AOE skill multiple times

[fading sky]

As warrior emberon is free

[torpid sand]

And each time is a lot of damage in a +6 at least

[fading sky]

U can reflect all

With reflect bts selfheal, and enraged regen

U are pretty much immortal

[polar trail]

I’ve don’t think I dropped below like 90% on that boss in a +9, the lasts boss’ breath was pretty annoying though

[sullen dove]

Health dips below 90% for 1 mechanic he casts twice every phase 1

can’t be good

[torpid sand]

The last boss is far easier imo HAHA

Emberon is always my personal nightmare

[sullen dove]

Emberon kind of a joke

intermission more annoying than anything

decent dmg and have to do a track race

but yea just reflect when frontal goes out and if u do it quick enough can reflect dot on both frontals

[oblique raft]

I love SR

[sullen dove]

real

broken in nokhud

[oblique raft]

on AV u can save ir tank

[sullen dove]

just kind of require vc with tank

or u die

[oblique raft]

yeee

[dense elbow]

just meld

[oblique raft]

i died many times just to make sure how to do it

meld or a parry

[dense elbow]

When you in sync with your tank tho, huge dam

[oblique raft]

and hope for the best

[sullen dove]

like I do with guild tank all the time and get like 20mil reflect damage on both bosses

in like a 9

20mil total* from both

Like 10 each

very good

[oblique raft]

Like in Uld

[sullen dove]

3rd boss reflecting

[oblique raft]

Yeeeeeeeee

[sullen dove]

garbage random zero cast time mechanic

[olive wraith]

sry for that question but... whats bsl again?

[sullen dove]

Blue silken lining embellishment

[dense elbow]

mastery when above 90% hp thing

[olive wraith]

oooh that thingy

[oblique raft]

Some times u get like 3-4 SRs and other times u got 0 and like 3 bleeds

[covert blaze]

what boss

[fading sky]

Snaaake

[covert blaze]

ah ye

that dot fucks

[left perch]

can SR in waycrest on virulent pathogen

[dense elbow]

SR darklightning while standing in the group in WCM

[oblique raft]

lol

thats explains why we wipe that day

[dry talon]

did ya all crafted wrists with your first spark ?

[chilly fractal]

I did boots

[fresh creek]

is it good to go 2 set of the new set if we lose our 4 set

from prev tier

[covert blaze]

no

[torpid sand]

Just go to the new set once you get all 4p

[sullen dove]

Nah reflect tank smash say more dmg

[chilly fractal]

in fact it prolly isn't worth it to swap to new 4p until you upgrade all the pieces

should sim it tho

[deep hare]

@golden hare are u play new season

[chilly fractal]

for me even after upgrading 3 Hero track tier pieces to 522, 1 Champion to 515 + changing talents it only ends up being a 5k dps increase

[fresh creek]

isnt it always an increase in ilvl

[chilly fractal]

then it may not be worth it to switch

is what I'm saying

If I don't upgrade pieces its a DPS decrease to swap sets right now

#s4tiersetsucks

[lean wasp]

do i go full haste mastery or still mastery vers ?

[clever path]

DEEZ NUTS

[dusky grotto]

[golden hare]

lol

[deep hare]

wtf

why are u laughing out loud at me ergaw

[golden hare]

you said something very silly

[deep hare]

[deep hare]

no sorry

you hate to see it

[golden hare]

it's okay

[sleek zenith]

Tierset for fury is a damage downgrade? D:

[flat river]

https://tenor.com/view/soobfad-druski-gif-25646977

[golden hare]

actually I logged on a month ago to give qruza the rest of my gold

[oblique trail]

why did you not give me your gold

[deep hare]

qruza sounds like budget qrva

[golden hare]

qruza is hotter than you irl sry

[oblique trail]

you don't even know..

[deep hare]

banezi are u play this season

[oblique trail]

yes

[deep hare]

hell yeah

are u having fun

[oblique trail]

I don't have 4p so no

[deep hare]

im sorry to hear that

[oblique trail]

I get rolled by devokers simming 80k more than me

[sleek zenith]

i sim 20k lower dps with new fury tierset

feelsbad

[deep hare]

i pugged first 6 in heroic raid for vault

but i left on last 2 becaues i hate raiding

[golden hare]

@stray spruce

[deep hare]

hello qruza your name sounds like budget qrva

[jovial coral]

This place does not need to get any worse man do not call him here...

[fallen ginkgo]

[mossy fox]

i bet walli wouldnt get rolled by devokers simming 80k more than him

[oblique trail]

True I'm just bad and washed

[mossy fox]

started slacking when you goy yellow name

got

[deep hare]

https://tenor.com/view/spelling-mistake-minor-spelling-mistake-meme-gif-23650588

[oblique trail]

I swear I've tried to get better..

[mossy fox]

boomer thumbs

[golden hare]

omg ben sharpo!!!

[fallen ginkgo]

[deep hare]

bro erga i was playing calamity terraria and apparently ur guide can get named ben shapiro in this mod

[golden hare]

holy hell did you destroy you enemies with facts and logic??

[golden hare]

[deep hare]

we didnt get to any of the hard bosses because s4 released

[golden hare]

bad rng...

[deep hare]

we did the plantera clone in dungeon before stopping or smth like that

[covert blaze]

[deep hare]

[frail cave]

Thoughts about 502 puzzlebox replacing a 483 rezans eye?

I'm not home ATM so can't really Sim it but I thought I'd ask in here

[oblique trail]

Puzzle box is better

[frail cave]

I wanna use puzzlebox before using avatar correct?

[oblique trail]

Correct

Channel Puzzle first -> CDs etc

[forest grove]

puzzle box, its very strong

the new fury set gets better when we have 4p r-right

i sim lower with the current upgrades i have too

[young swan]

"better"

[forest grove]

we're learning arms this season are we

I haven't played another dps spec since legion,,

[young swan]

if you care that much about this season yeah

fury is still playable

[forest grove]

oh, so its not that bad then

[young swan]

but 4pc is a dps loss until you get sufficient ilvl on the tier pieces

[forest grove]

Hmm, I only care enough to get the rewards and then ill be in collector mode till ww

[young swan]

if you arent pushing keys or doing mythic it really doesnt matter at all

[uneven plaza]

when do we swap over to new talents? 2pc or 4pc?

[forest grove]

I guess ill keep at it for now or if you think arms is fun I should pick it up

[young swan]

4p

[uneven plaza]

ty

[forest grove]

definitely 4pc, the 2p is nothing but a crit boost

[young swan]

currently I dont think warrior is fun period

but some people like arms

and it does do a lot of damage

so if doing a lot of damage is fun for you, try arms

[random raptor]

Do we know how much wyrm/aspect crests we're going to need for the legendary weapon scale upgrade from bullion vendor?

[young swan]

should be 60 wyrm, 90 aspect

[red peak]

I know we have the tier list of trinkets, but wanted to ask whether anyone had grabbed these
They are probably terrible, and will sim but just wondered what people thought. Hidden gems?

[random raptor]

wow thats quite a bit, what ilvl does it cap at

[young swan]

535

[random raptor]

awesome

[young swan]

dont forget the crest cost is free up until the highest ilvl wep u have

[random raptor]

I'm asking just so I can figure out if its worth using 60 aspects for my crafted wrists

[oblique trail]

It's fine crafting an item this week with Aspects

[covert blaze]

do you know how many crests you save if you upgrade a hero weapon to 522?

[young swan]

no idea

[oblique trail]

You'll have to farm the remaining Aspects, and Flightstones, regardless afterwards

[covert blaze]

bad blue

[oblique trail]

It's 60 Aspects from 522-535

[random raptor]

this is my toon currently, starting to push 10s and want all the power I can get, I only have 2pc in bag, pushing me to 510 but im weaker until 4pc

[covert blaze]

ty banezor

[young swan]

[covert blaze]

yellow bis

[covert blaze]

[rotund ginkgo]

what 4p does fury want

i assume no chest, right?

[young swan]

no legs is ideal but it prob doesnt matter much at all

[elfin tree]

Can someone tell (or point me where to read) about 2p2p and what spec I should be in for it? I assume the older specs until 4p but trying to confirm

[rotund ginkgo]

fair, tryna get a 4p for both arms and fury ig

not sure which one does arms not want

[frank dawn]

The difference of various off pieces is less than 1% on like almost any sim I can think of I’ve run

And usually less than .5%

[midnight kite]

It can probably even come down to small stuff like "oh your dwarf/tauren so actually having a bit more crits fine"

[fiery storm]

coming back from season 2 ..... think i should just go right into new talents and put on all new tier?

[young swan]

arms also doesnt care legs pretty sure

theres a really nice amount of overlap this season because of all of the cantrip items

[rotund ginkgo]

noice

[elfin tree]

Anyone know what crests are needed to max out the lego next week with upgrades?

is it all aspects all the way?

[young swan]

60 wyrm, 90 aspect; this is assuming you dont have a single hero track weapon

[elfin tree]

Amazing Xan, thank you

[young swan]

if you have a hero track weapon and upgrade it, its only 60 aspects from 522 -> 535

[elfin tree]

great ty ty

[heavy folio]

it aint bad xd

just scary to use sometimes

[nimble ibex]

Is fury good to have both 2 set for both or just keep old 4 set till you have all 4 can’t sim cause I don’t want to waste my awakened tokens if it’s not a upgrade

[elfin tree]

Im siming that exact thing and it does come out on top using 2p2p for me at least. Read that you keep the old specs until you have 4p

[subtle nova]

what is the best item to craft with spark first?

[nimble ibex]

What’s the dps difference

[nimble ibex]

Wrist or belt I would say

[subtle nova]

yeah was thinking wrist

[torpid sand]

stupid question

[elfin tree]

I dont remember exactly, it was multiple sims ago now but it was at least a few thousand

[torpid sand]

why use BSL instead of double shadowflame

[radiant plank]

bsl is gooder

[young swan]

BSl is more damage

[nimble ibex]

Nice so did yoi end up going back to 4 set or kept the double 2s

What’s bsl do again?

[elfin tree]

Im still simming but im leaning towards 2p2p. Can only recommend you sim yourself

[elfin tree]

Drop the CDR on odins fury for base stats, more secondary stats and 12% dmg and crit chance of Rampage...

[celest sierra]

what should we be spending our ballion on

[elfin tree]

There is priority lists in the wowhead and icyveins guides

[celest sierra]

wowhead saying that augrey and signet

still our biss

[clever path]

I love how people who voted season 2 are like “ it’ll be balanced” lol not trying to start anything but god s2 just feels horrible to play

First bullion should be legendary

Iirc

[celest sierra]

100%

[frank dawn]

Yeah zero competition for first buy. Do the Legendary

Assuming you have it of course

[celest sierra]

yeh weps are decided asscandy and leggo

have it? HAVE IT??? brother I FORGED IT

[clever path]

Well off hand is less so

Because there will be no one else wanting it

Only fury

[frank dawn]

I mean Ashkandi is best, but not necessarily the best bullion spend

[celest sierra]

i think my first 3 buys will be Leggo-Augrey-Signet

[frank dawn]

Yeah Lego, augury for me. Not sure what I’ll do on 3rd

[torpid sand]

I was thinking about Augury first and then leggo

but idk

[frank dawn]

Lego first, 100%

Literally nothing else is close

[clever path]

Yeah full on, leggy first no other options

[keen kindle]

I totally won't use all of my alts just to get the apperances of ashkandi for my collection

[celest sierra]

my buddy already has a 528 wep. so next week when he gets the leggo upgrade he gunna be able to upgrade it to 528 with just flightstones

[frank dawn]

I will 100% buy it on an alt cuz I never got it during s2 lol

[keen kindle]

Tbh it's what I'm gonna use alts for

Just to get them the billards and use them for transmog LOL

Also jigglesworth cuz I missed it 😦

[frank dawn]

Yeah I mean a few weeks from now you an just do LFR and swoop up some bullions

[keen kindle]

my spriest literally just existing to do LFR for a mount

Also getting the apperances of Smoldy's sword too

[clever path]

Im mad we can’t buy tier looks with bullion

Season 1 bracers for mythic alluded me and still do

I just want my damn set blizzard

[keen kindle]

I mean

you basically have it

you can't even see the bracers kek

[dapper goblet]

@sullen dove

hunter gets a augy

warrior gets 441 curio they cant fix

[sullen dove]

new main!

[keen kindle]

Just do what I'd do

Play evrey character you have

whoever gets the better gear is now ur main

[sullen dove]

second boss rlp moment

[celest sierra]

huge

but i see u had a Yumii so ur getting buffed lmaoi

[dense elbow]

Guys it happened, the casual meta wall, I was removed for being fury and not arms

[plush ice]

Eh, w your gear fury should have more st dmg in its aoe spec

[clever belfry]

maybe tell ur ret to not be trash

[plush ice]

That's wild you were removed on a ty week

[sullen dove]

no

wipe on last boss btw

deplete +9

[keen kindle]

Dude

Imagine depleto on a two

[sullen dove]

ok nah

this group is falling aparto n this boss

tank lets me die and doesnt pick up dragon and troll stormslams me

w shit!

[dapper goblet]

[keen kindle]

Btw question

wait wrong chat

[sullen dove]

oh wait

was about to complain that i got that chest and cant cata it

then realized, just upgrade my current chest

[oblique raft]

lets go

[sullen dove]

514...

[oblique raft]

ya

[sullen dove]

...

[oblique raft]

i got a socket

thats pretty cool

[dapper goblet]

baze still owns u...

[sullen dove]

yea...

[oblique raft]

this was a lucky week

[sullen dove]

62.2...

looking at all these ppl getting sick loot from mythic... thatll be me next week... surely guys..

[oblique raft]

Next week we all gonna get the leggo upgrade

[sullen dove]

yar

[oblique raft]

so happy for all my fellow warriors

[sullen dove]

i get this but awakened item level out of vault

surely

[oblique raft]

ohhh so cool! i want that avoidance too

[wispy thistle]

Ive gotten 3 dog water trinkets and 2 cloaks, been so so for me

[dusky grotto]

I got 2 weapons for my first 2 item drops

This seasons gunna be good

[covert blaze]

holy ina brainrot in this chat

[dusky grotto]

Ina my beloved

[sullen dove]

[clever path]

i only have one Question. couse im on the border of quiting wow. Why warriors after being a bad dps classs or medeocre on season 3 dragon fight, why do they get nerfed again? no not nerfed...smashed down and outerly grbage like y hate the class? No demon hanter or pala Tanks should outdmg furry calss. like...why?

[sullen dove]

uh i mean i dont think we're losing to any tanks...

either they have way higher gear or youre just not doing damage properly

but yea generally fury isnt in the hottest spot rn

[rich veldt]

warrior has been dogwater for 3 expansions

[sullen dove]

surely

[clever path]

being doing top dmg 10/10M every expantion ever

[rich veldt]

Wait legion was lit

nvm

[clever path]

did i sudenly stoped doing it?

[sullen dove]

i mean that just doesnt make sense

[clever path]

no we dont do same dmg as tanks...nut shoulnd be close

yes it doesnt....that why im asking.... WHY?

[sullen dove]

dont think warr's every been top dmg on almost any fights

[clever path]

why ruin the set

[sullen dove]

fyrakk was close exception

[rich veldt]

blame the community bro

people voted for this

[sullen dove]

yea i mean the set sucks

[clever path]

why go back to previous set????

[sullen dove]

cause its more fun!!!!

def stupid tho

[clever path]

it was allrady in a bad spot..

[sullen dove]

wrong

s3 fury was actually good

[clever path]

and went back to even worst spot

[rich veldt]

dw guys 12% damage increase to fire incoming

surely

[hard widget]

S2 fury is more fun imo, just numbers suck

[clever path]

no man...s3 furry wasnt good.... Odins Furry was

1 spell

1 spell was the whole class

no man...1 spells out of 20 buttons is not a class

furry was garbage

jsut saved just becouse of one button

and now is gone

[sullen dove]

sure...

[clever path]

even that

[sullen dove]

so u just like odyns

[rich veldt]

but yeah fury was never that good man

[sullen dove]

i mean it was best its been last raid

in a long itme

[rich veldt]

yea true

[sullen dove]

fury top 2 dps on fyrakk

[rich veldt]

but its never a top class contendr

[sullen dove]

almost thru the whole patch

[rich veldt]

what i meant

M+ wise

[clever path]

they cant compete to Demon Hunters or rogues or anything

warrior main for 20uy ...and im doing less dmg with warrs than any other calss with lower ilvl

jsut big sad

[gilded pawn]

Go arms

[sullen dove]

what he said

[clever path]

slightly better

[sullen dove]

you lose to way less peopel as arms

no

not slightly

a LOT

[clever path]

a lot compared to furry

still cant compete to other calsses

[sullen dove]

just a skill issue then

there will always be SOME class better at some things

but as far as m+ concerned arms probably top 5

if not like top 2/3 melee

[clever path]

Dh and rogue are top 2

[rich veldt]

just roll mage

😂

[clever path]

my prist and lock are way ahead and out of warriors league

jsut not fun anymore

[sullen dove]

your perogative to say so ig

[rich veldt]

yea if u dont enjoy it

just go play something else

it aint that deep

[clever path]

i enjoy warrs... jsut dont understand the nerf

[sullen dove]

liek i am demolishing these guys in this algethar

[clever path]

where did that come form?

[sullen dove]

maybe they arent playing as well as they could

but even still im happy with what im doing

[clever path]

where did the decision to nerf furry came from?

[sullen dove]

as compared to what

nothings been nerfed

[cyan star]

@sullen dove Details needs to be bigger to show the XL difference between the others

[sullen dove]

fury's just using a worse set

[cyan star]

Bigger bar = more betterer

[clever path]

when y take the set out..its over for furry

[rich veldt]

u have 2 set or 4?

or 0

[sullen dove]

4

[hard widget]

We didnt get any nerfs

[rich veldt]

[sullen dove]

and every other spec in the game had people smart enough to vote on the ones that did the most damage

cause 98% of the time thats the only thing that matters

but fury cant be afforded that same courtesy

[hard widget]

Well, to be fair. Back in season 2 fury did good damage

[tardy lark]

they said they wanted to tune the sets

[clever path]

nice tunign

[eternal sundial]

12% crit bro

[sullen dove]

[eternal sundial]

its INSANE

does play fuckign mint tho

[hard widget]

The funny part is, if fury did top damage nobody would be complaining about season 2 set

[eternal sundial]

3 stack into bt in reck at my gear

[clever path]

the arms players would

but still

[tardy lark]

we'd play arms if it was competetive anyway

[red berry]

they might still do tuning anyway

[hard widget]

Thats why im playing arms 😄

[clever path]

changed the set back to smthing that was realy bad

[tardy lark]

ill play whatever is best until progress is done

then ill play what i enjoy the most

[rich veldt]

in 5 weeks

[hard widget]

Highly doubt they will do big tuning before TGP

[lucid owl]

is fury significantly behind arms ? didnt know enough data was out to confirm

[rich veldt]

They will do some tuning to bait us all back for TWW

[hard widget]

Yes

[red berry]

yes

tier 2 really wasn't great for ST

ravager just doesn't do enough and hurricane isn't enough in it of itself

[rich veldt]

2set S4 tier is the paly to go arms already? or

[clever path]

in a laughable degree behind arms

[lucid owl]

i feel like even without new tier set, arms feels better for some reason. maybe my stats just feel better for it

[clever path]

not for s3

[eternal sundial]

(never fury)

[sullen dove]

arms is just more capable of doing damage from a base level

fury has absolutely zero power in its cooldowns

compared to arms

[rich veldt]

blizz just wants me to work on my thesis so they make the spec shit

I see

shoutout

joking relax

[sullen dove]

like "oh guys my 5 target cleave does like 30% more damage with hurricane and avatar!!!!"

"dont look at the fact that base damage i do 5k dps on 5 targets!"

fury just blows honestly

[clever path]

pfff

[eternal sundial]

sloppy

[clever path]

shadowlands was Arm again...

[sullen dove]

shadowlands was pretty even i thought

[eternal sundial]

sl was either innit

[sullen dove]

fury second half arms first half kinda

like s2 was all arms

[eternal sundial]

s1 not war
S2 arm
S3 fury

S4 meme

[sullen dove]

not war

real

got told to come in on fire mage alt for sludgefist instead of warrior

[clever path]

i ll be 50y old before i can say "Yes u played Furry and i did dmg"

[sullen dove]

wild

u just didnt play fury last season i guess

unfort

maybe s1 tww we'll get back to some meaningful cooldowns

[rich veldt]

wont be happening

[clever path]

Furry is jsut 19 weak spells and Only One doing the work

thats not a champion

[rich veldt]

cataclysm classic coming out in a month

[sullen dove]

surely bro is not referring to odyns "doing the work" when its also dogshit

[clever path]

its not Tuning if the whole rotation is grabge and only one spell covers the difference

[sullen dove]

barely propped up by last tiers 50% damage buff

r u just the biggest odyns fury fan

funkykitty step aside

[clever path]

with s3 set i had not choice

y had to go odyncs

[sullen dove]

ya ofc it forced u to take odyns

and it felt good still

but it didnt do crazy damage

[clever path]

yes

creazy no..

but 1 odyns = yr base rotation x3

[sullen dove]

[clever path]

so...yes one champ one spell

take odyns out...its over

[sullen dove]

tru...

[clever path]

think of prist..

[sullen dove]

i love thinkin of prist..

[clever path]

take PI out...still a good calss

[sullen dove]

literally everyone wants pi removed from priest

[clever path]

take the 3m CD out... still a good

[sullen dove]

its an annoying ability

[hard widget]

Season 3 arms already outperformed fury

[clever path]

remove a plauge or the blast...still a good class

[hard widget]

Just not in raid perse

[eternal sundial]

talking sl

[clever path]

thats a good class....everyting blends to make a champion

not a funny rotaiton and one button carry the whole class

that is not tuning

[sullen dove]

i mean a little silly to say odyns carries the class

[clever path]

that is "im not getting paied enougt for this shit"

[sullen dove]

cuz it definitely does not

[clever path]

take it out and yr class imeditely does 50K les DPS

[sullen dove]

in waht context

last season? where it was the only thing u played?

and season 2 where warr didnt use odyns and was really high m+ damage?

yapping getting a lil too outlandish now

like they SHOULD make odyns the m+ talent and make it blast

but it doesnt because it just doesnt idk

picking odyns is a dps loss in current season almost always

[clever path]

now yes couse of set change

at least s3 y had one playble talent tree

now they force you to play Raggin Blow

[sullen dove]

raggin 💀

[clever path]

but the set buffs the bloodthirst XD

[summer grove]

Lol raggin blow

[sullen dove]

and raging blow vs bt has nothing to do with odyns

the set buffs bloodthirst in a way that makes you not want to hit bloodthirst on repeat

kind of the point

makes bt a "big damage hit every couple seconds"

instead of "your main rotational ability"

its definitely just not strong enough tho

[clever path]

with Blows... it was never main rotaiton

[olive wraith]

I mean all tier sets more or less force you into a certain build

[sullen dove]

ya

[olive wraith]

There’s always gonna be a tree that’s the best performing based on the current tier

[jaunty trellis]

is there anyone with new 4 piece? hows the damage?

[clever path]

yes force y into a certain build that is playble

now its jsut not playable any diracton u take

[sullen dove]

whether somethings playable or not is just... what you like about it

if fury did 100% more damage and was top dps would it be "playable" then

[sullen dove]

fine enough m+ but not crazy in raid

[jaunty trellis]

damn

[fair cave]

Quick question if anyone can help. heard we cant mix s3 and s4 sets, is this true? even if lower ilvl

[sullen dove]

you can wear 2/2 but just shouldnt

cause its pretty bad

[brittle crow]

can i upgrade my s3 allied wristguards into s4 ones

[jaunty trellis]

yea

[sullen dove]

ideally u wait for new 4 piece before dropping old 4 piece

[jaunty trellis]

with a recraft

[fair cave]

asking cause of pvp rly, both seasons 4 set suck and bg blitz scale ur ilvl

thanks

[clever path]

playable means on thing....

[brittle crow]

do i need some special mat

[sullen dove]

[jaunty trellis]

a spark

you can check at the crafting spot

[clever path]

tommorow we got mythic raid. what do y think will ask me to play? Furry couse i like it? or shadow prist that pop 90k more dps?

thats what playable means

[sullen dove]

the answer there is play arms

[olive wraith]

Can you expand this thought

[sullen dove]

and so it is damage you're concerned about

fury is just not doing as much dmg

as other classes

ergo feels bad to play

[clever path]

at some degree yes

[sullen dove]

nothing about the actual buttons you hit

if u did 500k dps fury would feel good to play

[clever path]

playable means that, as a diferent dps class y have to offer a differet advantage

some classes have high burst low sustain

others hight single low aoe

other have good cleave or smthing else

[olive wraith]

How are we diff in either season

They both have diff damage profiles

[clever path]

y have to offer smthing unique

if y dont offer anything unique and yr dmg is super low...that y are replasable

y have no value

y have to give smthing...

even if its the only thing as dps

let it be ... i have super hight burst every 25 mins and when there is full moon

usless..but i can work with it

[hardy cargo]

Be the unreplacable player in your raid and play whatever u want

[clever path]

jsut any short of unique value is what seperates the classes

no matter how strong

Teleports...Imunities, portals... all unique

[hardy cargo]

fury still brings battle shout and rally

[clever path]

prot warr can as well

[celest sierra]

is old 4set better then 2/2 set?

[sullen dove]

good thing they suck tho

so no one brings a prot

[sullen dove]

yea

[ashen socket]

Finally timed a 10 and I wasn't even playing fury....

I hate tanks man

Why are they so shit when they main it

But I spend 2 seconds on 1 and its easy money

[hardy cargo]

All good tank players are good dps players swapped out of necessity

[sullen dove]

tru

there are maybe like 5 good tank players in this game that actually want to play tank

[fading sky]

Mby.coz ya grp suddenly had 3 good dps🤣

[oblique raft]

https://tenor.com/view/furina-genshin-genshin-impact-clorinde-dancing-gif-11641188306856420319

[sullen dove]

[ashen socket]

Lmfao

I'm normally top

Cause I have 4 piece

only thing that gets me is bm

[clever path]

i just wait for the time where tanks get dmg buff

[fading sky]

Of cc stun and interrupts?

[clever path]

they dont need heal anyway

[oblique raft]

man i cant find keys im gettin bored

[sullen dove]

[clever path]

so... i ll jsut play tank and solo anything

[ashen socket]

What level?

[oblique raft]

13s

[ashen socket]

Oh ye I don't think I qualifiy to tank those

[sullen dove]

[hard widget]

NA or EU?

[sullen dove]

just do it

[oblique raft]

NA

Ohhh is Jeventes!

omg big fan

[hard widget]

Haha thanks ^^

[clever path]

na is gaming???

is wow NA like league NA?

[oblique raft]

i watch ur vid on yt to have a point of view

[sullen dove]

north america...

[hard widget]

Appreciate that mate! ❤️

[clever path]

yea exaclty

[oblique raft]

jeje

[hard widget]

Unfortunately not a whole lot of gamers are pushing yet

[oblique raft]

I know

[hard widget]

So thats probably why there isnt too many 13's yet ^^

[clever path]

there we go...NA

liek league NA

[oblique raft]

i just like to play with the s1 arms tier set

[clever path]

they like the sun more than competitive game

good ppl

[hard widget]

I dont have set either yet. But.... next week!

[oblique raft]

best wishes!

[hard widget]

Do you have the tierset?

[rich veldt]

he meant like is NA less competititve than EU like in league

cause EU has been shitting on NA for ages in league of legends

[oblique raft]

yeah

[hard widget]

U must be having a blast then!

[lofty scroll]

is it keen neltharite again?

[oblique raft]

yeah im having a lot of fun with the cleave spec

[sullen dove]

why this dh doing 3 dps first pull of nokhud

gues they not broken after all huh george

[rich veldt]

i wanna go arms, is it viable with 2set instead of 4?

[sullen dove]

ya prolly

[rich veldt]

[oblique raft]

yeah u can still play with 2set

[obtuse hatch]

Question. Which gem would be better Keen Ysermerald or Neltharite? or Does it really not matter to much and use whatever is cheaper?

[sullen dove]

u can sim diff gems

[obtuse hatch]

gotcha

where can I sim at?

[sullen dove]

uh raidbots

if youre not familiar with using it

there is some kinda like guide i think on it

[obtuse hatch]

not really

[covert blaze]

swordfish posting 10 screenshots per hour like bomani

[obtuse hatch]

I tried and screw it up I think and just got rid of it

[sullen dove]

at least i know how to crop

btw free bomani

undeserved

[lofty scroll]

ty. one more thing, is there a cap on our stats?

[covert blaze]

true

[sour tundra]

how long before it stops showing last seasons IO score on the addon?

[tardy lark]

there is no cap, but theres diminishing returns

[sick viper]

FREE BOMANI

DID NOTHING WRONG

[loud locust]

hey what ilvl would yall say is appropriate for M+

[edgy widget]

He did, in fact, do something wrong, but if he wants to be unbanned, he can message me or Xan about it

[clever belfry]

bomani moment

pretty deranged for sure

[dusk jackal]

greetings Skyhold

[ashen socket]

Who even is that?

[dusk jackal]

what do you guys think of Irideus Fragment (https://www.wowhead.com/item=193743/irideus-fragment#comments) ?

[modest condor]

not the greatest for fury since you drop stacks really fast

[sick viper]

one of the most acoustic guys on the server

[sullen dove]

irideus

[granite nimbus]

any rotation hints - i cant seem to push more than 120-130k single target , my ilvl is 487, i do Rav, recklessness, avatar, pop trinket, charge, whirlwind, rampage, raging blow back and forth, onslaught then bloodthirst