fury

[royal oxide]

Grats brother

[wild mica]

at least they got something

[clever path]

i love rolling a 1

on heroic augury

in a pug

[edgy widget]

idk they were already very close

[clever path]

not in m+

[mossy fox]

it's just their prio damage is non existent when aoeing, thats their problem

[clever path]

in raid sure

[edgy widget]

Yeah their ST in M+ won't be sure

[north edge]

if they took more ST talents

to M+

maybe they can compete with fury in ST

[clever path]

not really

its like arms playing jugg

it doesnt close the gap

[restive peak]

Ret top sim is 262 now, ours is 248

[edgy widget]

Gonna once again point out the hilarity in lamenting the Fury S3 bonus, while simultaneously extolling the virtues of priority damage in M+ though

[clever path]

its m+

tlak

not raid

[north edge]

i mean in overalls im already getting gapped by ret

[restive peak]

Ret was already arguably passing us? It was extremely close, they are definitely the better choice now

[olive wraith]

But archi s2 is gonna save fury

[north edge]

in M+

[edgy widget]

[clever path]

0 reading comprehension

genuinely

no one ever said anything about overalls

[edgy widget]

tbf, you say ST and people are gonna think raid

[clever path]

i mean the convo was about m+

[edgy widget]

ok

but

when

you

talk

like

this

how

much

do

you

think

people

follow?

[rigid tinsel]

yikes

[edgy widget]

Learn to type in complete sentences you philistine

[mossy fox]

i was fine with s2 prio damage in keys tbh, i was doing that role in keys back then too

[wild mica]

there must be a secret message in there, maybe the first letter of every line

[royal oxide]

Already looked

[edgy widget]

still gonna fall like a shit from heaven though

[mossy fox]

just ret seems to do equal cleave to everything when they aoe

[clever path]

yeah shouldve specified mb

[restive peak]

If you think ret is below us in any capacity now, you’re drunk as shit

M+ or ST, that’s without mentioning utility

[clever path]

they are below us on st in m+ with their m+ build

[olive wraith]

Unless they somehow crank s2 set arms just looks too good

[restive peak]

By a VERY minuscule amount now, like a negligible amount at current damage levels, while bringing more of everything useful

[wary fjord]

they'll release new patch notes next week, big fury buffs i swear

[mossy fox]

we'd definitely need some help yep

[restive peak]

I’m happy I got above 3600 cuz that’s where I’m gonna be camping now

[royal oxide]

All the plate boys do

[clever path]

idk how big the buffs are with m+ build on st

i play with a ret pally so we will see i guess

[sinful spoke]

ty now i can do m+

[royal oxide]

Get you a might and pump

[urban basin]

Gorehowl xd

[clever path]

are u trying to equip 2 of them?

gorehowl is unique equipped

cant have 2 of them for some reason

[urban basin]

that would do it

ty, but that makes no sense wtf lol

[clever path]

but u can have 2 double time

[urban basin]

and two nick of times

[clever path]

adn they are better

than gorehowl

lmao

[mossy fox]

qrva's ret sometimes is barely behind me on ST on some pure ST M+ bosses, idk if it's rng or what

[royal oxide]

Tbf comparing gorehowl to dt or nick isn't fair

[north edge]

ret with leggo

[sinful spoke]

i got one already owo

[north edge]

can compete with fury wihtut leggo

thats for sure

[restive peak]

Ret was not nearly as bad in AOE build as people complained before this

[north edge]

for ST

[sinful spoke]

i just didnt wanna do m+ with normal brand

[clever path]

rip i guess

rip fury

[cosmic lance]

qrva didnt have leggo until like, yesterday

[mossy fox]

?? i havent played with leggo qrva yet

[modest condor]

maybe cooldown timings

[restive peak]

I watched Gucci drop the same ST as the rogue and mage today in a 28 rise, are those bad players? Lol

[north edge]

oh right

[clever path]

is this with leggo or

i doubt it is

[royal oxide]

Pretty sure no one was complaining about ret aoe at all

[clever path]

but just asking

leggo is like 20k

for them

[restive peak]

CD timings don’t change much on high M+ because fights are so long

[mossy fox]

without leggo for neither of us

[restive peak]

I meant their ST in AOE spec

Was not as bad as they were pretending

[clever path]

rip warriors i guess

[mossy fox]

he completed leggo today i think, we play tomorrow

[clever path]

in m+

there genuinely wont be a single reason to take a warrior now

[restive peak]

Yes, we just dropped another tier likely

I would never bring a warr over a ret now, and you’d be crazy to

[royal oxide]

There already wasn't

[clever path]

there was

[restive peak]

BOP LOH Brez bubble etc

[mossy fox]

it's funny cause i was already maxing out on like 410k overall in brh, he'd be just under 500k

[olive wraith]

Well I better get my 3k this week

[mossy fox]

but now he'll have leggo and these buffs to gap even harder

[restive peak]

Yeah we’re fucked, I was debating gearing my ret anyway, this decided it

[north edge]

atleast you dont run the risk of getting benched

[clever path]

i mean sure there is no reason to take a warr when u can take a mage or something but it doesnt mean warriors are unplayable

[north edge]

My friends are gonna never play with my warrior again

its already bad as i

[mossy fox]

and ret wasnt (and prolly still isn't) at the top of the food chain btw in keys

[north edge]

is

[olive wraith]

Maybe I should learn mage

[rigid tinsel]

man for real i dont know what blizz is smokin

[cosmic lance]

ngl its quite funny seeing nox play with a DH

[wild mica]

having a moonkin alt is paying off, and also aug

[cosmic lance]

Just gets gapped by 100k+

[north edge]

Simulation suggests a ~5.2% buff to single-target in the pure ST build / on the BiS profile. Assuming no talent changes, ~4.9% buff to ST in BiS profile in a typical M+ build. Note that you'll see larger relative increases personally if you are not running

from the ret discord

on the buffs

[cosmic lance]

pretty sure 5% is enough to put ret very close to on par with our st in a key

[scarlet swift]

5% buff is still a 5% buff

[clever path]

prob above

us

[scarlet swift]

more than DKs 4% and more than warrior 0%

[cosmic lance]

It wasnt that far below to begin with

[clever path]

there is a lot of rng thats prob why

[restive peak]

They are above us now

This isn’t even a debate man, they were already being brought as much as warriors

Crit and I play with friends who accept the deficiency, that’s all, my team has openly stated they wish I’d main my rogue

[severe nacelle]

+bop +sac +dispell +cr +aura +bubble +wog +lay on hands

[cosmic lance]

Thats pretty much all the top end warriors

You're all capable of pushing 30-31 if you wanted to main meta classes

[restive peak]

It sucks

Ruins the game, genuinely this might be it for me til TWW once fyrakk dies. Tier after tier of this

[cosmic lance]

I'm borderline capping out at 25/26 in terms of having to run my own key or not being invited in weeks like this

[wild mica]

is it your first expansion or something, how are you surprised

[cosmic lance]

But thats m+ life

[clever path]

unless warriors somehow make a comeback for s4 im rerolling to rogue 100%

maybe i reroll this season

[restive peak]

The reason it’s my last straw is because I’ve been around long enough to be fed up with it, brotherman

I don’t want to be a dh or rogue or ret, they’re all just as easy as fury, I just don’t enjoy it the same.

[half cargo]

Consequence of having a lead designer that just doesn’t get this

[scarlet swift]

warrior design is great, its fun. it just needs to actually be good

[restive peak]

It just….isnt fun anymore, man. And a game shouldn’t be this frustrating because of design flaws, I’m too old to let it bother me this much.

[half cargo]

Based ^

[cosmic lance]

I'm just sadge they killed DMZ in cod and didnt bring it into MW3 or i'd probably go back to that for a bit

[wild mica]

might just need a break like you said. after 20 years this shit is just another monday, cant let it bother you like that

[edgy widget]

breaks are healthy

if you're not having fun, do something else for awhile - it's a fuckin video game, you shouldn't be living and dying over it

[wild mica]

i burned myself raiding in the past, now i cant be bothered raiding. maybe if i took more break i'd still enjoy it

[restive peak]

You come back from a wow break to this the next tier, I quit S1 cuz of this shit 🤣. Its just a constant for warrior, I wish I loved mage man. I’d be chillin.

But mages are pussies and we all know that

[cosmic lance]

It's times like this i'm glad I work away so I can't commit to mythic raiding/key push teams. I'd be malding

[scarlet swift]

warrior is almost the only class that isnt combo-point based anymore too, they are gonna kill warriors in the future i bet

i think thats why i enjoy it, only rage, no combo points

[restive peak]

It’s not about the time, I spend plenty of time with my wife and work a shit ton, you can be passionate about a game without it consuming you

But with the passion comes the frustration

[clever path]

it isnt fun cause i at least play wow cause i find competing in raid and m+ fun and i like doing dmg

when they do shit like this

[edgy widget]

20 rage = 1 combo point

[restive peak]

Exactly

[edgy widget]

https://tenor.com/view/the-universe-tim-and-eric-mind-blown-mind-blown-meme-mind-explosion-mind-explosion-meme-gif-18002878

[clever path]

i hate it

[scarlet swift]

@edgy widget but 20 rage + combo point = DK and Monk and Rogue and Feral

[clever path]

also got signet from vault on rogue

its a rogue angle at this point

[restive peak]

That’s exactly how I am, I’m a competitive person by nature so if I’m not able to compete…fun is gone. And warrior IS fun, as a rotation and class, but doing dogshit damage comparatively ruins that fun factor in a competitive environment.

[edgy widget]

and Ret!

[scarlet swift]

see

point exactly

[restive peak]

If I’m not pushing keys or raiding…there’s no point to the game.

[edgy widget]

what was the point lol

[clever path]

absolutely

it's the same reason i quit league after being 70 lp off chall

[scarlet swift]

warriors have 1 spender, everyone else is 2

[clever path]

i hated the fact that i couldnt play champs i liked playing

and had to play meta

and just quit that season

[restive peak]

Same

[olive wraith]

Fury*

[clever path]

i only play the game as 5 premade now and only flex nothing else and its only fun cause we are talking shit in voice chat

if i play ranked alone i tryhard immediately same with wow

i cant play wow and not push

[olive wraith]

If I had a group I’d be the same

[scarlet swift]

people volutarily group with warriors permanently in 2024, i thought it was a grandfathering in thing

[olive wraith]

You bring the player over the spec often times

[clever path]

yes but limiting urself

cause ur class is shit

sucks

and it especially sucks for the friends u play iwht

cause u are limiting them a well

[dapper goblet]

how does warrior suck in m+ when you have OF every pack

[clever path]

[olive wraith]

You can still push as a warrior

[clever path]

can and should are different

[olive wraith]

Crit is doing it still even though he doesn’t like this seasons tier

[cosmic lance]

Yeah but that's also like people saying prot is viable because Pika plays it

[clever path]

he said they were hitting a dps wall

in keys

with ret buffs sure they will deal more dmg as a group especially since qrva got leggo

but if he rerolled to a mage or rogue or something

[cosmic lance]

The absolute best players around, playing with the other absolute best players forcing it to work doesn't mean it's competitive with the top performing specs

[clever path]

he would be timing higher keys

[wild mica]

they're running 2 super tanky classes im pretty sure they'd be much better off without an aug

[sullen dove]

itll be so much better when its reck rav every pack... right? surely we wont do negative boss damage for the tradeoff of better cooldowns on trash packs

[clever path]

i hate talking about this but how is s2 0 boss damage

when fury did really good boss damage pre aug

[olive wraith]

It’s not 0 I agree but it’s def less than current

[dapper goblet]

majority of keys outside of very certain ones are more trash than boss

[edgy widget]

I mean at a certain point you need to change your perspective

M+ is uncapped, and WoW simply cannot and will not ever be balanced around that fact - there will always be a wall for one class/spec before another, so you really need to decide why you play and what you're pushing for

[sullen dove]

havoc does everything for u surely

[edgy widget]

you can push the highest Warrior can go, certainly, but constantly comparing what you do vs what the better spec at the moment does is an exercise in futility unless you simply expect that your chosen class/spec will always be the front runner... which it won't be

[cosmic lance]

tbf the fact that there's people within 1 key level of the top keys is probably the best state you could hope for

[edgy widget]

and blizz ain't gonna randomly tune Warrior to be M+ meta for a season just because it wasn't before

Just hazarding a guess, but I don't think Blizzard really gives a fuck about even trying to tune the top end of M+, since so few players do it and it would impact tuning for the content far more players actually do step into

idk, the constant "we're not as good as XYZ in +30 keys" discourse just feels like tilting at windmills

[scarlet swift]

maybe if M+ was balanced more would play it :hmm:

[cosmic lance]

They generally don't afaik - they've made comments i've seen in the past about the futility of trying to balance around top end m+ and being infinitely scaled

[edgy widget]

you can't balance the top end of an uncapped system

you simply can't

[north edge]

you could change Shockwave to Ancient Aftershock

[edgy widget]

not without massively reframing the entirety of the game's content

[cosmic lance]

At some point the scaling just causes things to be broken and that's just life

[north edge]

and it would give us somewhat of a unique utility

[edgy widget]

lol there's nothing "unique" about Ancient Aftershock

nor would that suddenly make Warriors meta

now you're just asking for something new to make you feel better, which I get... and yeah it might make you feel better for a week, but it ain't gonna change anything in the long run

[cosmic lance]

I think that's also why they kinda laugh off the complaints about 1 shot mechanics, they're mostly of the opinion that yeah, that's what happens with a system like m+

[north edge]

its not new

[edgy widget]

well yeah - and I get there's a disparity between who can survive what, but if it weren't getting 1 shot at +30, it'd be getting 1 shot at +33

[north edge]

it was literally there in PTR

[edgy widget]

it would be new to you now

[north edge]

and was what NF fury played back in Slands

[olive wraith]

I’m just anxiously waiting for the s4 “tuning”

[edgy widget]

I didn't say it was a new ability

also I don't think ancient aftershock actually ever made it to the PTR, pretty sure it was replaced in alpha

[cosmic lance]

Yep, it's just kicking the can down the road until another interaction pops up

[edgy widget]

exactly

and ultimately someone is going to survive it and someone else isn't

[woeful mantle]

war will only be in the "meta" if it does 10-20% more dmg than the next spec since it doesnt bring anything

[rich ember]

Warr will only ever be meta if it has more utility

Damage will always get tuned

our utility is terrible

we do nothing for our team

[north edge]

we were fine in BFA without utility

[rich ember]

Because we did big damage

[cosmic lance]

We were in almost the exactly same position in bfa that we are now

[edgy widget]

you say that, but utility doesn't make something meta unless it's strictly required utility (e.g. Mass Dispel for a time)

[sage depot]

starting the warrior cope weekend early arent we

[edgy widget]

9 times out of 10, meta is dictated by damage and survivabilty

[wild mica]

utility doesnt matter, damage is always king.

[cosmic lance]

We did decent damage, but were sitting just outside the meta picks

[wild mica]

and warriors cant die

[edgy widget]

nobody gives a shit what your "utility" is if you bring enough damage and can survive the hits

[rich ember]

i agree with this

[edgy widget]

and there's no real "required utility" that would suddenly make Wars meta

[rich ember]

but its also why they're sitting Dh's in some higher keys and or forcing them to play tank trinkets

[edgy widget]

Ancient Aftershock won't do it

Better access to Shockwave won't do it

Interrupting Shout won't do it

Lust sure as shit won't do it

[rich ember]

Also why they play double mage which does less damage overall but still times keys and brings utility

Damage is king i agree

but we just have nothing else to offer even when we're doing well in damage

[edgy widget]

honestly War utility isn't even bad right now, outside of the whole Incorp/Afflicted stuff, which is annoying for sure, but rarely an actual problem

you've got easy access to 2 stuns, an AoE fear, innate interrupt, small group defensive CD, small-moderate offensive buff, great personal mobility and great personal survivability

[cosmic lance]

Literally one team played double mage and all of a sudden that's the meta?

[edgy widget]

like Wars, or at least Fury, really isn't wanting for much atm

[rich ember]

No..

its not meta

its just an example as to meta classes

[cosmic lance]

You can look at the top keys on rio and see 2 different tanks, 3 different healers and 7 different dps

[sage depot]

surely all we need is 2 yard extra range on attacks/abilities

[high basin]

didnt they do that in late shadowlands when the game was almost dead?

[cosmic lance]

Thats probably the best state balance has been in for a while, we're just not in that meta

[high basin]

they removed the aoe cap for most classes

i don't do m+ but i care when a fking 480 alt hunter does more damage than me despite me having the orage stick

[edgy widget]

the AoE cap stuff is tilting for sure - I don't care that some classes are uncapped (I don't like it, but whatever, I can live with it)

But I don't like that Fury is weaker within its 5 target cap than some other uncapped or higher target capped specs are

[high basin]

maybe if they make roar farmable with AM

but still idk if that will be enough

[edgy widget]

That would certainly be a buff, but I find it unlikely to happen; doesn't really impact the whole target cap aspect either since Roar is already uncapped

[olive wraith]

1min plus cdr? Would certainly be strong

[royal oxide]

i mean even the other 5 target capped specs can increase to 8 targets

[north edge]

does the arms roar do significantly more than fury roar?

[royal oxide]

its weird that imp ww does not increase cap too

[north edge]

my arms roar sometimes is like 12% of my overall

fury is like 4%

[sullen dove]

proly not that big of a difference but yeah arms' is stronger

[royal oxide]

arms roar has more bonuses to damage

[sullen dove]

has a talent increasing its duration by like 6 seconds and yea all that extra bleed dmg shit

[spiral oasis]

Can I still roll on augury if I go prot loot spec

QUICK

[dapper goblet]

open journal as prot

[sullen dove]

ya

[dapper goblet]

and see if its there

[spiral oasis]

it's not

[sullen dove]

then no

[dapper goblet]

so swordish just made some shit up

[sullen dove]

makes more sense the other one is more specifically a tank trink

[spiral oasis]

RAH!!

[dapper goblet]

for funsies

[spiral oasis]

SWORDISH!

[sullen dove]

ya was to xeos

bruh

[dapper goblet]

mhm..

[sullen dove]

y u even rolling for trink as prot

[spiral oasis]

you trifling fool

[sullen dove]

just roll fury if u want chance at 1 hander

[spiral oasis]

i want the rageheart too

[sullen dove]

and aug

yea gl with that

o also another thing

o wait nvm u meant to roll

[spiral oasis]

You goofy ass goober

[dapper goblet]

he's a s3 voter so he was trying to sabotage you

[sullen dove]

was boutta drop the "loot spec doesnt matter for what loot drops"

[dapper goblet]

its just what they do..

[sullen dove]

not a 🤖 unfortunately

[dapper goblet]

innocent until proven guilty

[spiral oasis]

i'm a non voter

😎

[sullen dove]

hop on trove

[spiral oasis]

hop on t

on th

[flat river]

YOOOO

[sullen dove]

y...yooo...

[flat river]

UwU

[sullen dove]

[flat river]

Look i am happy

Good mood

[sullen dove]

[flat river]

Just ate homemade tacos

All the toppings

[sullen dove]

every single one

[flat river]

Yes

Sad thing is though

I have 170 ping cause im in America rn

Can't do shit

[sullen dove]

[tulip swallow]

I went to make my vote but the forums were broken AF so I just gave up

[flat river]

xd

I voted season 1

Only real g's voted season 1

[dapper goblet]

true

[woeful mantle]

doesnt matter, look at hunter in SL, dogbunz utility but did big dmg

[rich ember]

If you read lower i agreed with that

and didnt dismiss that

[woeful mantle]

yeah sorry didnt wanna read 100 msg xD

[rich ember]

we just havent done that amount of damage to be meta in a while

[rich ember]

haha you're all good

[woeful mantle]

yeah since legion, ToS tier

then mdi got us nerfed

[amber arch]

check out the spell reflect damage third boss of tides

I predicted two flameshocks perfectly

[cosmic lance]

that was in a 25

Boss is cooked if you get lucky

[fair oasis]

what're the chances we're playing with our lego in next season as well?

[amber arch]

when do you reflect though?

I got really lucky with flameshock but i noticed crit reflecting at different times

[cosmic lance]

Just before his flame shock CD is up

[amber arch]

oh ok and you just hope it targets you?

[cosmic lance]

The only way you can game is it knowing you cant get targetted twice in a ro

Other than that its pure RNG

[amber arch]

sweet

so i was doing it right. damn it felt sickk

[cosmic lance]

So if you miss one and it lands on you, do not reflect on the next cast

Because you're not an elligeble target

[olive wraith]

100%

[fair oasis]

youve read this somewhere?

[wanton mirage]

they could buff up the whirlwind percent form 55% to greater numbers just like they give to SP psychic link now. but they won't

[fair oasis]

btw i mean being able to upgrade it to next seasons ilvls. not jsut use it early in season

[cosmic lance]

99% chance it will be upgradable in some way to be relevant

[olive wraith]

It’s very likely

[cosmic lance]

They did it with hunter bow in Sanctum

[edgy widget]

they could, it's been oft suggested and has also happened several times in the past

[olive wraith]

That happened s1>s2 right?

[fair oasis]

i didnt play back then. did they also upgrade it for Sepulcher? or did it skip sepulcher and then was upgradeable in the final season?

[olive wraith]

Wasn’t it 45% s1

[cosmic lance]

It was only in fated season afaik

Since all gear basically comes back at a relevant ilvl

[olive wraith]

Puzzy box

[edgy widget]

it was 45% in beta, 50% on launch, and 55% in 10.1.7

[olive wraith]

Ah gotcha

[fair oasis]

but i dont have to "re-earn" it right? like i can jsut upgrade from my bag?

[cosmic lance]

We don't know yet

[edgy widget]

yes, it will probably be a direct upgrade similar to SL

[fair oasis]

if it works like it did for bow

[cosmic lance]

If it works like bow, then yes you'll get a currency of some sort to upgrade it

[fair oasis]

it doesnt work for other gear right? liek should i have not vendored my Beacon? xD

[edgy widget]

Again, if it works like SL, some special gear, like trinkets and cantrip items, will be purchasable with the dinar

[olive wraith]

Man there’s so many good trink to choose from

[warm crag]

aug beacon

[edgy widget]

legendaries won't be purchasable, but they will be upgraded (the difference is you have to have it to upgrade it, those who don't have it still have to earn it, rather than just buying it straight out)

[olive wraith]

Idr what trinks came from DF dungeons

Aside from puzzy

Oh and hooves

[edgy widget]

that was the only one worth remembering

[cosmic lance]

3 mins CD though is a bit cringe

[fair oasis]

ok but i jsut want to make sure on this. trinkets from my bags rn will not be upgradeable, if the system is the same?

[edgy widget]

Irideous Fragments might have play

[cosmic lance]

Even if it is strong

[fair oasis]

they only did that for the lego?

[edgy widget]

no, existing gear won't be upgradeable

[cosmic lance]

Outside the leggo nothing else changes, its a new season with different gear

[olive wraith]

Fragment decayed on every ability push though right

[edgy widget]

in SL though, new gear that you earn in fated can be upgraded between difficulties

[fair oasis]

with the bow, were people able to juice it up to max ilvl right away? or was it staggered?

[edgy widget]

I feel like we're playing 20 questions here

[fair oasis]

it's importantttt

[olive wraith]

Just wait and see

[edgy widget]

just wait for the fated announcement for everyone else man lol

[cosmic lance]

You can literally google how the hunter bow worked

[upbeat plume]

things could also change from sl fated

we dont know yet

[cosmic lance]

And this is all assuming they don't change it

[pallid idol]

Sorry where can I see these notes with buffs

[olive wraith]

#news

[pallid idol]

Ty

[olive wraith]

Fury didn’t get anything TLDR

[cosmic lance]

Not even mentioned

[olive wraith]

PvP

On a talent we don’t use for it

[cosmic lance]

Who even does PVP nowadays

I thought they'd basically killed WoW PVP

[vital agate]

Is anyone able to help with my rotation/gear any help would be appreciated

[olive wraith]

More info required

[pallid idol]

Aff untouched still a warrior main I guess

[upbeat plume]

yeah Im a little suprised fury didnt get anything this tuning but I guess were high enough that they didnt see us as an outlier as were near the middle

[olive wraith]

Ret?

[subtle lagoon]

I can't even remember the last time we were mentioned in patch notes

But this is great, now other specs get more priority to be picked over Fury. An excellent time to exist in Azeroth.

[cosmic lance]

Time to bust out that SMF build for mog farming

[fallen pivot]

.-.

Gotta love a monk claiming augery is their bis

[brittle crow]

meanwhile my feral druid with 200% base movespeed indoors:

[wanton mirage]

sadly no plate morg farmable yet on feral druid

gotta make one in TWW for sur

[upbeat plume]

that was something changing in the next expansion I believew with the warband stuff

if I remember that feature correctly

[naive summit]

will arms be a good m+ spec?

[olive wraith]

They got better

Depends what you mean by good

[naive summit]

will people invite me to keys

[gilded pawn]

no

[olive wraith]

Are you 3700 io

[gilded pawn]

being invited to keys is very different from being good

[junior gale]

no matter what you play invs are not easy

[gilded pawn]

^

unless you are a healer with lust

like

even if rsham is the worst healer in the game

they can still see invs

before pres existed ofc

[covert blaze]

[drifting spire]

The ret buff is wild

[clever path]

wouldnt be surprised if ret was meta

crazy survivability insane utility insane aoe

good st

and leggo fucks on ret

they stack haste vers and wings works with leggo

[left perch]

that buff to their st idk - they kinda full suck st

[clever path]

i mean they will do our st

and we have good st

their only weakness

is lack of prio dmg

idk warriors kinda deadge

ngl

[left perch]

not arguing that

I’m

play my warrior to try to get leggo for fun and log out into real class

[clever path]

im gearing a rogue

atm

i love warrior and will forever main it but this season has been rough so far

and its only gonna get worse

[covert blaze]

purple man good

[clever path]

also my group wants me to play a real class too so its kinda joever

[clever path]

rogues too fun

outlaw is peak atm

[covert blaze]

i love outlaw usually but this expansion and specially this season it's omega cringe

stealth as outlaw lmaoooooo

no ty

[clever path]

4 bte on opener then 2 more subterfuge windows

idk i like it

i wont like it on spiteful but meh

don't really care its not like outlaw cant deal dmg if u dont pull from stealth

[covert blaze]

tank didnt let me re-stealth guess my dmg is gone

[clever path]

its more a sub assa issue

[covert blaze]

not even all about re-stealthing

i just dont like having sdance and subterfuge on outlaw

it makes no sense to me

it's just a personal thing obviously

[clever path]

yeah true but its still infinitely more fun for me than fury/arms

idk all 3 warrs are crazy outdated imo

they just lack that dopamine

its like oh cool i get my cds as fury

time to press bb

[drifting spire]

Kinda wish i didnt get lego makes me cba to reroll but getting into 25s is rough

[clever path]

getting into pugs is always rough

as any class

sure its easier on fotm

but its never easy

[drifting spire]

i played sp in s2 is was very easy

good logs = insta inv was free

but warr is sitting in 2h ques to get a chance at 3score

[nova garnet]

@still swift cmere babygirl

We having ice cream

[clever path]

yeah but getting into high keys is always hard but for 25s ye as fotm its way easier

[subtle lagoon]

Cookies n' cream? based.

[fleet cargo]

i just wake up now and saw the class changes

they buffed retri ?!?!?!!!

thatmuch ?!?!?!!

and nothing for fury ?!?!?!!!

i really want to kick blizz worker's asses

so angry rn

[clever path]

rough expac for warriors ngl

m+ especially

fury was really good pre aug

and thats about it

[fleet cargo]

bro fury would be the class that has been touched very less since start of DF

they just dont give a fuck

[clever path]

anyone know from your player how far back the range of the leggo axe cleave is like how deep it goes? and the sweep of cleave left to right?

[subtle lagoon]

We have regressed to windwalker status

[fleet cargo]

i will switch to arms

this fuckinbg sucks

[clever path]

same shit

more aoe less st

[full terrace]

Well ur gonna be disappointed when you see the state of arms

[clever path]

less survivability

[full terrace]

Even worse lmao

[clever path]

nah arms is gonna be better

with these buffs

[full terrace]

Don’t think it will be

[clever path]

but it wont be good

it will

[young swan]

tack 4% onto 244k and tell me what number comes out

bet its higher than 248

[clever path]

^

ret is like 262

with these buffs

[cosmic lance]

It'll be better ST in raid prob, i think the arms m+ bladestorm build is still dogwater ST tho

Significantly lower than the fury m+ build's ST afaik

[clever path]

fury still has ridiculous survivability

[cosmic lance]

Yeah but if you're just blasting 24-25s and want to do good damage arms is fine, i think it just sucks on bosses

It'll pump on trash/pad numbers

[clever path]

balance is irrelevant in that key range

[drifting spire]

"arms is fine" yh tell that to ppl doing the invs XD

[cosmic lance]

I mean i would disagree with that entirely but w/e

[nova garnet]

Yeah :3

[slim coral]

guys

it's a wrap

[clever path]

ye i got 29 eb

[olive wraith]

F

[clever path]

joever

[olive wraith]

What’s the limiting factor for eb that high

Is it the mage section?

[slim coral]

I love everbloom

so fun

it's just a tight timer

[cosmic lance]

Mage, yalnu, timer

[slim coral]

3rd and 4th boss truck

[olive wraith]

Obv the timer lmao

[cosmic lance]

Yalnu is a monster even on high fort tbh

[slim coral]

the key itself isn't that hard

everything is pretty simple

just takes a lot of defensives and stuff

[winter shoal]

The fact there have been 2 timed 29 tyran EBs all season is insane

[slim coral]

like the infernal cast litearlly 1 shots

and if you get bad rng it'll kill you

[winter shoal]

162 tyran +30s so far this season and not a single one was EB

[slim coral]

ther'es only been 3 timed Rises

at a 29

and only 20 28s

[winter shoal]

I'm a +20 andy so timers aren't really a thing but rise manages to blow dong anyways

[cosmic lance]

Idk what it is about rise, pugs are utterly awful in there

[winter shoal]

It's just so horrendously unfun

Every boss and every trash pack is unfun

[cosmic lance]

I don't know if its because its newer or what but I have seen the most smoothbrain shit out of people in that dungeon

[winter shoal]

The gauntlet is unfun

Waiting around for flying between platforms, RP, portals opening, etc. is unfun

It just sucks

[cosmic lance]

Theres 9 timed +29 tyran rises?

[slim coral]

mythic crest need to be account wide

[slim coral]

3

[clever path]

the dungeon is impossible

[cosmic lance]

There's 9 on rio righ tnow?

[slim coral]

no

[clever path]

a single mistake

key done

[slim coral]

for this week

[clever path]

instantly

[slim coral]

I'm talking about

[cosmic lance]

Right, that's different then

[clever path]

the timer is so crazy tight its insane

[cosmic lance]

You never specified this week

[clever path]

on top of the dungeon being pure cancer

[slim coral]

ok this week

the dungeon isn't that bad overall

just some one shots that need nerfs

and in pugs people can't rotate defensive correctly

[cosmic lance]

Honestly its not even defensives they get wrong most of the time when ive bricked it

[slim coral]

like the last boss is kinda overtuned

first boss needs nerfs

[cosmic lance]

They do stupid things like forget to move back out after picking up orbs on boss #1

[slim coral]

on shield or something

[clever path]

last boss literally requires tank healer communication on like 25s

[slim coral]

Throne rise and everbloom all suffer from the same things

they have adds that have giant health pools

and it makes it hard to push on both weeks

[clever path]

last boss eb is like

5 hours

[cosmic lance]

And bait frontals into the middle, or don't know how to kite the bladestorms so we dont get absolutely railed by group wide dam

[slim coral]

Yeah

[clever path]

cause u have to swtich to the add

and save cds for it

[cosmic lance]

Like its basic mechanics they just competely smoothbrain even up to 25/26 that i've been pugging

[ebon chasm]

My god, fury totally missed from class tuning meanwhile ret gets all that.

The fuck is wrong with blizzard

[slim coral]

well fury is mid

it just doesnt beat the overtuned classes

Ret has terrible ST

[clever path]

not anymore

[ebon chasm]

I've only seen them in keys really around the 18-22 range and they was fine in there

[clever path]

with leggo they beat us 100%

leggo is like 20k

for them

haste vers stacking + wings works

with leggo

[winter shoal]

It should be very close to the top on ST after buffs

[ebon chasm]

Our ST is fine i guess but surely we deserve a buff to ww/odins damage

[winter shoal]

And solidly above average on tswift and fyrakk

[clever path]

on pure st ret is simming for 262

[slim coral]

yeah but in higher keys they really suck

[clever path]

fury is like 248?

[slim coral]

in ST

I'm not sure

I'll be leveling a ret now though

[clever path]

ye its 248

[slim coral]

be back!

[ebon chasm]

Cba getting leggo again

🤣

[clever path]

ret is at least gonna be doing our st with leggo and buffs

if not more

with much better aoe

and utility

tankiness is debatable

they are better at burst damage

but worse at dots

[ebon chasm]

How's arms looking after these buffs

[clever path]

mid

st ahead of fury

a few k ahead on st

arms is like 243 atm

243 * 1.04 is like 252

so 4k ahead on st

[ebon chasm]

Still gimped st with good aoe talents I guess

[clever path]

yep

[vague copper]

So the buffs set arms on pair with fury more or less

[clever path]

slightly ahead on st

[vague copper]

So will still only kill fyrakk for leggo then bench warrior rest of the week.

[blissful kestrel]

U guys think it's worth reclearing heroic for lesser frag if I already killed fyrakk this week

[covert blaze]

probably

[vocal fog]

what trinket to use for Mythic Tindral

[past pivot]

No

[young swan]

what trinkets do you have

[sudden tusk]

reject augry

[junior gale]

only if your bored and have nothing to do with your life

[sudden tusk]

its arms time

[clever path]

might augury for root damage augury signet for boss dmg

[junior gale]

Augury arms 😎

[clever path]

we cant know which trinkets u have

[open prairie]

know what i realized is the best part of fyrak

he kind of exposes who pulls early by killing them instantly

[vocal fog]

i have every trinket

[open prairie]

you should probably mention what ilvl

[full token]

awe yiss

[fleet cargo]

guys

[vocal fog]

signet agury might all 489

[fleet cargo]

guys

who can help me

in a weakaura

it doesnt appear

i exported reck from afenar suite

but it doesnt work for arms

i mean

it doesnt show when warlord torment's procs

that secondary reck

[somber elk]

Wow ret gets buffed and fury ignored again, kinda cba anymore

[fleet cargo]

yeah thats why im switcing to arms now

in advance

because it gets little bit more attention by the devs

for fury ? no nada

[somber elk]

Just Doing fyrakk from now on, so dumb

Big warrior needs to do a Statement Video about the State of fury, Maybe blizzard realises that we exist then

[tame yarrow]

Uhhmmm guys

They forgot the fury changes, no?

[clever path]

go reroll now

unplayable

worst class in the game

[tame yarrow]

Wake up - oh, patch notes buffs to many classes no fury warrior changes at all

Atleast they didnt nerf us right?

[clever path]

technically it is a nerf

since everyone else got buffed

well

not everyone but u get the point

[somber elk]

You guys Think its worth to Write a ticket or where should we wine?

[gilded pawn]

yeah

because game dev and customer support are the same

they both do CS

[tame yarrow]

True. So and Ret already did more M+ damage than warrior - huge buffs 😄

[covert blaze]

@young swan

[young swan]

i kinda made a video on that already

in a roundabout way anyways

[tame yarrow]

We might actually be the worst M+ class now

[covert blaze]

ik

[young swan]

I think dk is prob still worse

[hallow sphinx]

noob

[tame yarrow]

Could be yea

[covert blaze]

🧎‍♂️

[young swan]

dude

[upbeat sentinel]

the utter suffering of needing Death and Decay to cleave, and then it being capped at 3 anyway

[tame yarrow]

Legendary 2h axe season - DK and Warrior worst specs. Imagine

[somber elk]

Lets all complain 😂

[hallow sphinx]

🫶

[fleet cargo]

can someone help me with this 😦

[opal monolith]

Are we actually gonna end up being the worst melee in the game now

[fleet cargo]

@covert blaze bud just pmed u

[covert blaze]

just type what you need dont dm me

[fleet cargo]

ok

i need reck proc from warlords torment to show in my screen

i exported reck wa from afenar's suite

i just want it to appear when it procs

it doesnt load

[covert blaze]

ill help you after my key

[fleet cargo]

ok

[jade cipher]

guys

i cant find the talent/passive that says bloodthirst does more damage on low hp

where is it

[olive wraith]

Vicious contempt

Left side of tree

[jade cipher]

ah nice

found it

[covert blaze]

[jade cipher]

so for volcross its worth to keep cds and spear for that hp right

[olive wraith]

Depends on fight length. Generally just send in cd

Holding too much is bad

[jade cipher]

i mean if its not reaching 3rd cds

[cosmic lance]

If its going to be your last CD usage in that fight then yes

I wouldnt hold odyns, but reck/avatar/spear yes

[sullen basin]

Is the wclogs 95th percentile chart the same without externals

[gilded pawn]

Ppl don’t even run spear on volc because of movement

[somber elk]

So funny in ret Discord Ppl say fury is a really good meele😂

[opal monolith]

????

[gilded pawn]

some top ppl just cant be assed to run spear now

they just run roar

im not saying its optimal

its just lazy

and its volc

[opal monolith]

Like 1/10 people ?

[gilded pawn]

1 pull boss on reclear

[opal monolith]

This makes it sound like its common practice, just not true all top logs and large majority will run spear

[jade cipher]

i play both ret and fury and i main ret but my fury is 10 times better, with ret you have almost 0 prio damage

and your St damage sucks

[opal monolith]

Idk aoe feels alot better in keys on ret, raiding feels kinda awful

[jade cipher]

in M+ you have to divine storm even on 2 targets, you have generic pad damage but it amounts to nothing when damage vs timing comes into play

[young swan]

fury is a good melee its just that every melee that isnt rogue sucks overall

[jade cipher]

you know in some dungeons like atal dazar, Tot and shit like that

people heavily pad on small mobs and get ahead on details

but for example in TOt i carry the key with st damage and reflect

i did a everbloom with a ret and he was outdamaging me on all big packs but did way less than me on bosses

like his damage on bosses was actually hurting the timer so hard

[opal monolith]

Is divine storm capped?

Like soft capped

[somber elk]

And now you get buffed on Both

[jade cipher]

yes but their final reckoining and dot pads a lot

[opal monolith]

Ah

[jade cipher]

uncapped

their buff on st is not enough to compete

trust me

its good in raid but not in M+

[lean wasp]

Wtf are they doing with ret

[jade cipher]

on tyra they still have to go divine arbiter

[somber elk]

Still Would say ret is way better in keys now

[jade cipher]

retry rework has issues my men

all their st is on left side and all their aoe is on right

and in their spells you have to choose between full aoe or full single

[opal monolith]

Ye atleast fury aoe or full st isnt that huge of a q difference

Doing a st boss in full aoe ret spec feels fucking awful

[lean wasp]

so what ? You're not supposed to do both that easy

[jade cipher]

but have you seen the chart for retry

[still swift]

😳

[jade cipher]

its the biggest diffrence between all classes

[clever path]

1 pull boss on prog

[jade cipher]

qrva tps out on atal dazar to completly change spec on yazma

[somber elk]

Qrva got legy now, does alot on st

[clever path]

with the buffs

[lean wasp]

Wasn't people talking all the time about how good retri rework is last season ?

[clever path]

ret is gonna be ahead of fury

in m+ st

[lean wasp]

Way ahead

[clever path]

definitely not way ahead

[lean wasp]

20+% buffs

[clever path]

what

[gilded pawn]

people said it was "good" because it was overtuned

then they tuned it

and it fell off in 10.1

[opal monolith]

huh

[clever path]

its just not 20%

its 5% across both m+ build st and standard

st

raid build

• leggo is 20k for them

they stack haste/vers and wings crit works with leggo

[somber elk]

Its like 5 Percent st in m+ Build

[opal monolith]

Ye itd 4.9% for st in m plus build

[lean wasp]

Yeah ik but still i doubt its 5%

[clever path]

it is

[opal monolith]

Wdym doubt

[jade cipher]

it is 5%

[clever path]

5% is massive

[opal monolith]

Are u smarter than a robot

[jade cipher]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/469514134569091092/1156970954438737940/staoe.png?ex=65bbb42b&is=65a93f2b&hm=fbbc5d7ff1dae6adb10c077a250c36f53184d6e53e8f42de4104271c7512c93d&

[clever path]

assa one is so wrong lmao

[jade cipher]

this is pre ret buffs

[clever path]

havoc can play essence break

assa plays dtb

always

[lean wasp]

How many buttons does ret have to buff 4 to 20+% and still add up to 5%

[somber elk]

Even with that youre way ahead in aoe und probably ahead st with legy

[clever path]

if u play crimson tempest u are trolling

[nova garnet]

Cmere

[covert blaze]

havoc seems bullshit too

[nova garnet]

I'll make you wish you were single

[clever path]

it is

[jade cipher]

it depends on the pulls my guy, in high enough keys you always have roar on pulls, in lower keys rets always kick my ass

[clever path]

havoc loses

very little

[opal monolith]

I cant believe ur trying to argue with a literal simulated calculation of feely craft

[covert blaze]

and spriest too

[clever path]

if u play the human build

[covert blaze]

lmao wtf is this graph

[still swift]

owo

[covert blaze]

https://tenor.com/view/misinformation-spreading-spreading-misinformation-online-gif-4543841945782036495

[clever path]

outlaw doesnt seem correct either

u are dropping acrobatic strikes for lethality

in class tree

[jade cipher]

THis was posted on Ret discord by bolas in prepatch with current tier sets

[slim coral]

just leveled up a ret bro how do Ret players ever die wtf

[lean wasp]

Saying a rework is good is different from oh this class is overturned or op, people were saying the rework they did to talents was amazing

[slim coral]

they have so many good 1 min cd defensives

holy

[clever path]

and airborne irritant/gouge for unbreakable stride which are just personal utility

[still swift]

they don't

[opal monolith]

Cant complain as fury either come on

[still swift]

there a reason it has lowest death rates everywhere

[slim coral]

That's cap

[covert blaze]

they play that class for a reason

imagine how much they die on other classes

[nova garnet]

To wipes occasionally

[slim coral]

Ret players fall over in my keys like flies

[still swift]

sounds like a you issur

issue

[nova garnet]

That requires a lot of skill

To die as a ret idk

[clever path]

fury doesnt die either yet if u look at death logs it dies a lot

death logs

[leaden marsh]

good morning, how many sparks for crafting are available atm?

[clever path]

4.5?

[still swift]

6

flat

[leaden marsh]

sweet ty

[clever path]

damn i spent them all on arms jewelly

and im rerolling after prog

[molten spear]

i'm sorry why fury didn't get buffed? and spec that already did more damage than us got buffed? am i stupid or they are?

[still swift]

fury isnt even close to ret

[opal monolith]

What do u guys st at 485 ilvl without leggo?sim

226k sounds ok?

[still swift]

L ratio world is unfair time to reroll

[clever path]

thats just objectively not true

[nova garnet]

Fury > Ret

Brown class brings battleshout

[clever path]

rets suck on dots

[junior gale]

[clever path]

compared to fury

[molten spear]

@nova garnet idc, ret does more than us already

[still swift]

2 sword > 1 sword why would u ever play 1 sword ur just asking to do less damage like how would 1 sword every win lol

[molten spear]

it's ridicoulus

[nova garnet]

Fury is fine

[molten spear]

no it's not lol

[nova garnet]

Yes it is

[molten spear]

it's 20% behind the good specs

and didn't get buffed

[nova garnet]

It has battleshout

[molten spear]

it is in a bad spot

[nova garnet]

It's fine, arms got a 3% buff

[clever path]

20% is an overstatement but yeah we are in a bad spot

[nova garnet]

No it isn't, that's cap

[molten spear]

omg man if you say again we bring bs...

[nova garnet]

Fury is fine

[cosmic lance]

But we're tanky!

[molten spear]

fury sucks

baddamage

[still swift]

ty for battleshouting me

[molten spear]

we need a 20% buff to make us competitive

[nova garnet]

Fury is doing keys how far behind world fiest

[junior gale]

Fury is mid it does not suck

[molten spear]

idc

[nova garnet]

And has been among the first ce classes

[gilded pawn]

it was so good that in 10.1 you lost 20% ST DPS going m+ build, and the AOE BOJ talent was a dps loss over not having a talent at all

[opal monolith]

Was mid

[nova garnet]

This

[molten spear]

again idc cause my damage is bad

[nova garnet]

Mid melee DPS with a raid buff

It's fine

[nova garnet]

That's because you're bad

[molten spear]

i can push with whatever class, doesn't mean is good

lol

pls shut up

[still swift]

you're talking to someone who wants to justify 20% buff

[nova garnet]

Show lofa

[still swift]

give it up

[opal monolith]

It was mid before they buffed most specs below us, use common sense lol

[nova garnet]

I wanna see your parses

[jade cipher]

fury is actually decent, i play keys all day and from control to prio damage and reflects, i blast in keys

[nova garnet]

Taking bets if their parse can pass their iq

[molten spear]

@nova garnet yeah come see my parses noob lol

[somber elk]

What key lvls you Play?

[cosmic lance]

Biggest problem fury has is public perception & meta slaving

[lean wasp]

I mean ret was already doing same keys as fury and doing more damage in m+ sometimes, still it got buffed and fury didnt

[nova garnet]

Send link

[jade cipher]

26 27 28

[clever path]

yeah at that key level u can play affli

there is just

[nova garnet]

This dude calling me a noob @still swift my entire self esteem is in shambles

[clever path]

no reason

to play warrior

[jade cipher]

well what are all of you people talking here doing +29 +?

[nova garnet]

Battle shout

[jade cipher]

are you all part of that 0.5% players?

[nova garnet]

And that's about it lmao

[clever path]

especially when there are other classes which are more fun to play (rogue)

[still swift]

ur a tank u deserve it

[molten spear]

you can't see mythic cause it's private, but i'm 92.2 aberage on 7 bosses @nova garnet

average

[nova garnet]

Pathetic

[molten spear]

cmn noob

[nova garnet]

Can't even 95 average

[molten spear]

just shut up

[still swift]

where logs

[molten spear]

they take you in raid cause you bring bs

[nova garnet]

Whines about class damage

[molten spear]

that's why lol

[nova garnet]

Can't even Perform on class

[molten spear]

and you prse gret ofc

[nova garnet]

Wants buffs

[molten spear]

grey

[nova garnet]

[slim coral]

also why does ret have 50 mile attack range

this class is busted

meanwhile as fury I have to stand on boss to dps

[lean wasp]

Trueeeeeee

[covert blaze]

cause it's blizzard's favourite melee

[nova garnet]

🤏

[still swift]

every class should get acrobatic strikes by default

[opal monolith]

The dragons before third boss fall i swear u have to stand inside them to hit them

So bad

[clever path]

so basically just warriors

[jade cipher]

frost dk and enhance

[clever path]

cause the rest have it

[jade cipher]

has same problem

[molten spear]

@nova garnet shut up grey parser bs c uck

[covert blaze]

[nova garnet]

Are you so uncreative that you have to avoid the automod instead of thinking of a new insult?

Ninnyhanmer

[jade cipher]

i play both ret and fury on pretty decent level, not top but decent and i'm more comfy on warrior in pugs