protection

[muted nexus]

can you maintain a permanent banner?

[chrome falcon]

yes

easily

[muted nexus]

i meant tuna -_-

[open gazelle]

Yes

Easier in mob packs to maintain than boss fight imo

[cobalt seal]

can you hold perma banner on dummie?

[toxic pewter]

[open gazelle]

Did necro used to be worse? I knew I should have chose it from the beginning of shadowlands

[cobalt seal]

ST shouldn't be a prob for banner

[muted nexus]

it's not that it was worse, the covenant lego is what makes it slap

[open gazelle]

ST I feel like you have to uselessly refresh ignore pain to keep banner up

[chrome falcon]

correct you do

[muted nexus]

"uselessly"

[chrome falcon]

necro was unplayable trash in 9.0

i maintain that it was underrated in 9.1

and it's the clear best now

[muted nexus]

tbf most borrowed powers were dumpster save for shit like convoke in 9.0

comparatively now, anyways

[open gazelle]

I always enjoy kyrian spear to instant sb and the snap threat was nice

Plus potion

The only clear choice imo at the beginning

[dawn canyon]

didnt give good buff nor was it extendable

so yes

[cobalt seal]

if it gives you banner uptime

it's not useless

😐

[open gazelle]

Im just saying st your ip doesn’t really go away too much like it does on mob packs

[chrome falcon]

uh

depends what you're tanking

[open gazelle]

A dummy at the beginning

[cobalt seal]

and that affects uptime in?

[chrome falcon]

jailer gets rid of that IP pretty quick in my experience

[muted nexus]

it's not about maintaining ip, it's about spending rage to extend banner

[lofty widget]

and AM, and indom, and tier

[open gazelle]

Yes exactly ghostface

[muted nexus]

you cant spend rage fast enough without ip

[chrome falcon]

IP sucks

[cobalt seal]

[chrome falcon]

very sad

[lofty widget]

IP is amazing, just not for the actual spell

[chrome falcon]

remove IP in DF

[open gazelle]

But it feels good to kill two birds with one stone like usually in m+ mob packs you ip gets shredded and needs refreshed plus banner extension bc rage

[cobalt seal]

you have a weird way to look at it

[muted nexus]

im sus that u can maintain banner

[dawn canyon]

you can

[open gazelle]

Doesn’t feel good to spam ip just to extend banner imo but it’s what needs to be done

[lofty widget]

uhm

[cobalt seal]

what

[muted nexus]

lol wut

[dawn canyon]

ip is rage go away button

[chrome falcon]

i mean i just don't know what you're tanking that doesn't shred your IP

[lofty widget]

doesnt feel good to keep 22 % str for an entire m+?

[dawn canyon]

thats literally all it does

[chrome falcon]

boys i don't think tuna disagrees with you or doesn't understand what you're saying

he's not wrong

IP just being a button that does nothing but spends rage

is fucking cringe

[lofty widget]

ig

[cobalt seal]

how does it do nothing?

[open gazelle]

Ty matta

[chrome falcon]

i didn't

say

[cobalt seal]

unless you tanking 15's

[chrome falcon]

it does

nothing

i said

it does

nothing

but

spends

rage

[lofty widget]

the actual spell does nothing

as in the absorb shield

is pointless

[muted nexus]

a nongcd ehp barrier

[lofty widget]

cause it's gone in 2-3 melees

if not less

[open gazelle]

Tutytyty

[muted nexus]

ok, where would your health bar be without it

[pallid quiver]

Pretty much about the same spot, tbh

[chrome falcon]

you're not gonna make me defend ignore pain

fucking dogshit spell

[open gazelle]

The only other reason ip is good is because of indom that’s ittttt

[mighty valley]

IP does fine when we're spouting rage from every orifice like right now, but worried for what it becomes in 10.0

[chrome falcon]

IP removed in 10.0

shield barrier coming back

apb promised

[pallid quiver]

turn it b

[muted nexus]

banner warrior needs to die in df

[pallid quiver]

damn, matta beat me to it

[muted nexus]

this shit gonna give me carpal tunnel

[lofty widget]

what about legion IP off gcd?

[dawn canyon]

L take

[mighty valley]

my aunt at blizzard says apb's uncle is wrong

[cobalt seal]

https://tenor.com/view/rip-coffin-black-ghana-celebrating-gif-16743302

[chrome falcon]

shield barrier basically was just ip

except it was just an absorb

[toxic pewter]

Listen- I am just as mad at my cousin as you are

We are no longer speaking actually

[cobalt seal]

so you want to trade a shield + dr

to a shield

[toxic pewter]

Made me look like a fool

[cobalt seal]

[lofty widget]

was it capped?

[mighty valley]

it's... not a shield and a DR

it's a DR that runs out

[chrome falcon]

it was capped by your attack power, but vengeace/resolve were a thing

so the cap was dynamic

and could get very high

[open gazelle]

Remember when ip was 90% lmao

[lofty widget]

[pallid quiver]

Yeah, so the harder you got hit, the less you took to the HP

also you topped DPS charts

Pandaland good expac

[chrome falcon]

when i solo tanked garrosh hc i remember getting shield barrier that were much higher than my max hp

[pallid quiver]

Garrosh pumped Vengeance so god damn high

[toxic pewter]

You guys think all the trees will release when alpha starts

[mighty valley]

probably

[chrome falcon]

apart from evoker maybe

[toxic pewter]

Evoked prob won’t even be playable… will it?

[chrome falcon]

but from that leaked screenshot evoker might be mostly done?

[toxic pewter]

How did dk and dh monk go

We’re they playable at alpha stage

Anyone remember

[mighty valley]

i'm guessing dracthyr starting zone will be the furthest along content

[toxic pewter]

Yah development in general is quite far along according to ion

[muted nexus]

is the minigame on evoker fleshed out?

[toxic pewter]

Sort of like how legion was after they gave up on wod

[toxic pewter]

Yah probably

Thats a core feature of the class so I’m sure it was developed from the start

[muted nexus]

be nice to try the healer as a breath of fresh air

[toxic pewter]

🥁

I’m looking forward to presvoker too

[sick sentinel]

some people say when im talking about a scenario in a dungeon, i don't always describe it correctly

how should i reword them so its not as confusing to skyhold, or abilities and such,

[toxic pewter]

Hmmm could be worth just recording everything and post vod so people can watch

Or post logs of situation people seem to like logs

[dawn canyon]

He has posted videos

That usually isnt bad

[toxic pewter]

Ya I think I watched a vid one time

[sick sentinel]

i think i'd be meme'd to death for being generic white male #40004 and a bit kkona

[dawn canyon]

Gameplay is but yknow that's why he's asking

[dawn canyon]

No need to facecam just Show game

[toxic pewter]

Didn’t you post a streets you did one time yogi

I swear I watched some of it

[sick sentinel]

i did but the first 15 minutes were being covered by asmongold complaining about something wow related

[toxic pewter]

Lol

That’s right

[drifting juniper]

guys i have a token on a character

i misplaced it

any addon that can help me find it

[cobalt seal]

how did you misplaced it

did you buy on wrong char?

[dawn canyon]

altoholic

[drifting juniper]

i honestly don't remember my elvui says i ahve it somewhere

thx phill

cba logging each character and checking bags and bank for it

[cobalt seal]

you prob need to log

for altoholic to work

[chrome falcon]

you probably could have already done that in the 3 minutes since you first asked

[drifting juniper]

nope, too many alts and if elvui shows characters on all realms then nah not really

but yeah altoholic also needs me to log

[thin geyser]

i have to swap to tanking for a while to help the raid - is OWS something prot hangs on to just like DPS do, or should i replace it immediately because i'm already at 30% haste

just bang for your buck due to really high stat allocation

[urban portal]

ows is really good

and its 40%

[thin geyser]

it's a 246

[urban portal]

990 ish

[thin geyser]

oh!

[chrome falcon]

pretty sure i wore OWS on our myth jailer kill

oh 246 though hmm

[thin geyser]

shoot okay, i thought it was 30

[cobalt seal]

The cap doesnt matter

You sim

And use what sim tells you to use

Focusing blindy on stats is a mistake

[thin geyser]

I'm a noob, didnt realize i could sim prot.

[cobalt seal]

You can always sim dmg

You dont need to sim surv

Because that comes from Gameplay and not stats

[thin geyser]

thank you for the advice

[errant oriole]

what leggo slots give a socket?

[sweet summit]

head, neck, wrist, belt and ring(s)

[errant oriole]

well dang

[chrome falcon]

helmet good

[errant oriole]

I got my reprisal on my legs 😦

[sweet summit]

that's alright

[chrome falcon]

yeah that's fine

helmet marginally better but

no biggie

[errant oriole]

oh

[chrome falcon]

it's your highest ilvl piece so more stat budget = more good

[sweet summit]

head is the only tier slot not available at 285, which makes it the ideal unity slot (also shares the highest stat budget slot with chest and legs)

[errant oriole]

oh if i raided mythic that would be ideal 😛

[chrome falcon]

yeah it's an extremely minor optimisation for like

50 people who actually play prot warrior at that level

[sweet summit]

(every plate wearer that plays at that level)

[chrome falcon]

i simply do not recognise the red or pink class

[thin geyser]

haha

[sweet summit]

based

[errant oriole]

I wish i could do mythic BUT my guild took a big break after aotc 😦

[sick sentinel]

i could see there being only 50 pwar at 3k io

2622 puts me around, 70th my server which im told is largest or one of, and there is less than a dozen at 3k

[errant oriole]

im at 2676 im 3rd on my realm for alliance 😛 22nd total on my realm lol

[sweet summit]

there are 1057 prot warriors at 3k or higher in raider.io

[cinder storm]

I stopped pushing 3 weeks ago and I m still in the top 100

Dorki said on his stream that everyone that thinks pwar is bad is just dumb

[errant oriole]

is it true next season only the mega dungeons will be m+?

[sweet summit]

nah there will be two WoD dungeons that are not megas that will be available for m+

[sweet summit]

this is true

[errant oriole]

ok but besides those thats it?

[sweet summit]

besides those there are kara, mechagon and taza

man i haven't done a key that gave score in over 4 months

[chrome falcon]

yup

my score is the same as it was the day i hit 3k

i wish the leaderboard thing wasn't the top 0.1%

because that's just for ultra cringers

if it was like top 5% that would be nice

[sweet summit]

that'd be too accessible

[chrome falcon]

you could get it by being good but not like no-lifing m+ all day

sure maybe something for 0.1% still but

would be nice to have something to aim for after 3k

but i guess for 99% of players 3k is a really big goal so w/e

[cinder storm]

There's also networking involved, those doing 27s/28s will further push the score by helping friends get there

[sick sentinel]

i stand by this mornings mega mald that i made about simming and paying because nearborderline nebulous reasons

[dawn canyon]

[sweet summit]

it's not difficult to sim

[chrome falcon]

gonna self report here

I have never simmed once

In my entire wow career

Shit is weakness, just guess what’s better and be correct

[sweet summit]

3head take

[chrome falcon]

and yet

here we are

[sweet summit]

[chrome falcon]

every milligram of brain glycogen spent on figuring out whether I want 14 mastery at the cost of 9 haste and 4 vers

[errant oriole]

what do you guys think the ksm cap will be next season?

[chrome falcon]

is better spent pressing buttons harder and faster

[dawn canyon]

2k

[chrome falcon]

Same as this season I would imagine

[sweet summit]

prob back to 2.5k no?

[chrome falcon]

No reason for it to change

[dawn canyon]

2k since 8 dungie

[sweet summit]

we have 2 more dungeons this season

[chrome falcon]

Oh right we’re losing 2 dungeons

weirdge

[errant oriole]

true

[sweet summit]

oh thought it was 3k

¯_(ツ)_/¯

ah

i c

ye

[cobalt seal]

They will

Or else 5 tank team wouldnt be hyped for it

[sweet summit]

i don't see a reason not to continue with KSH

[cobalt seal]

They confirmed it

[sweet summit]

unless there are no conduit upgrades or anything to gain next season?

[cobalt seal]

Somewhere

Dont have a link in hand

There was a wowhead article

If not mistaken

[dawn canyon]

Icy veins

Itd make sense to keep ksh but u never know with blizz

[cobalt seal]

Maybe Im confusing with 0.1% title

That they confirmed

[hardy ridge]

does rally work through los

say i rally behind a pillar on jailer

[urban portal]

think so

[meager quail]

Well, I got a last minute +2 done so my warrior will actually have a vault

Maybe this week is the week I start tanking 😂

[sick sentinel]

Pwar tanking can be boring at times

Been finding more enjoyment playing my unholy and frost dk since recent

[meager quail]

I needed a change from my demo lock, for me SL is all about getting my UI working well for me and figuring out what to main for DF

Haven't tried tanking before and warrior is more appealing that most other tanks

[mighty valley]

Yeah I can't get excited about other tanks

And DPS is stressful sometimes, like I feel every minor mistake worse than tanking or healing

[meager quail]

I could get excited about paladin if they didn't need a different weapon for each spec

[jagged pier]

i mean in terms of the game back then Mop CMs were harder than most keys are today

not the high end keys for sure

[strong forum]

Lol, people are 2 or 1 manning bosses in cm speedruns

[waxen orbit]

Maybe up to a 15

[strong forum]

I've been watching a couple the last few days

And lmao that shit is so much abuse

[jagged pier]

2 or 1 manning was Wod

with soul cap

mop was vengance abuses

[mighty valley]

how do you even compare them, one of them is infinite scaling

[jagged pier]

but all 5 ppl were still used

[waxen orbit]

But I wouldn’t really call a 15 difficult either

[strong forum]

I've seen a brewmaster 1shot bosses, but yeh in wod

Literally 1shot

[jagged pier]

yer soul cap did that tho

and it was only the world record ppl in Mop that understood vengance did the dungeons that fast, most ppl in Mop found them very difficult

[strong forum]

Just like 15s were difficuly early legion

[waxen orbit]

True, new concept and all that

[jagged pier]

yes but also the playbase is better now

than back in MoP

[waxen orbit]

I’d say we’re better mainly because there’s just more to look out for now

Nearly every trash pack has a mechanic or several

[strong forum]

Like if you watch back the vid of alkaizer doing his Realm first +15 NL, you see how bad it is played

[jagged pier]

well the thing is when they added mechanics to dungeons in cata the heroic verisons were classed as too hard for most of the player base

and to do heroic dungeons in MoP u had to do silver proving grounds

like no one could do that

[waxen orbit]

I do remember my first heroic cata dungeon

I was 8

And a budding prot warrior

[strong forum]

👶

[mighty valley]

jesus christ

[jagged pier]

so in terms of the player base and game back then CMS were harder than m+ up to like 20ish now imo

but its a veru subjective thing to argue

basically different games

[waxen orbit]

Yeah for sure

[jagged pier]

i mean if u go by players than actually did gold CMs its probably more like the population that are going like 24+ keys now

or somthing

[waxen orbit]

Probably yeah

Sadge, if I was older I’d have gotten my CM gear but I was a wee lad

Didn’t have the brain cells

[meager quail]

Blood hell, you're a baby

[sweet summit]

still don't

sry toxic

♥️

[jagged pier]

biggest regret i have is not doing them, but i would have had to get boosted i wasnt good enough back then

[waxen orbit]

AUTOCORRECT

Thanks Erga

[sweet summit]

arthas

[waxen orbit]

I turn 19 in August

[jagged pier]

https://tenor.com/view/yeah-lets-goo-oh-yeah-thicc-boi-thicc-gif-25110441

[meager quail]

Get off my lawn etc. etc.

[waxen orbit]

It’s crazy knowing 70+ people at least 4 years older than me on this game and literally 4 younger than me/at my age

[jagged pier]

[waxen orbit]

Nah nah nah they IRL homies

[meager quail]

Reminds me of when I started playing MMOs as a kid

It's kinda weird being the old guy now

[waxen orbit]

Wish I could relive my first time creating my first WoW character at 5 on my dad’s account

Telughelhulm the orc warrior

Got my ass flattened by the same durotar boar 4 times

[meager quail]

Those were the days

[sweet summit]

wish wow had a better early game

so rough getting into it as a new player

[meager quail]

Yeah, it's miserable as hell

[waxen orbit]

Trial by fire

[jagged pier]

i think its better now tbh, the changes they made this expansion might have helped maybe thats

[meager quail]

I'm trying to tackle some of that with the UI I'm working on, don't really need it personally but it'd be nice to throw at people I play with that are new to the game and overwhelmed by everything.

[waxen orbit]

Kinda wish they actually just didn’t give us new zones next expac and just revamped the old world but I guess we gotta wait another 11 years for a cata revamp

[onyx vessel]

[meager quail]

I don't think it's copium to think they've helped. Definitely copium if you think it's good now though!

[jagged pier]

🤷

i couldnt even get to end of realm reborn in FF

i could get to end game of wow

[meager quail]

Oh yeah, FF felt like a nightmare when I tried it

[jagged pier]

but then again i've been playing wow since vanilla

and thats like the worst

[sweet summit]

ye but you're also a stubborn island dweller

[meager quail]

WoW is definitely okay for most people, it's breaking into challenging content for the first time that's the problem

[jagged pier]

i didnt farm islands thank you

[sweet summit]

(island dweller = living on the island = british)

[jagged pier]

i mean true

[sweet summit]

yeah this is definitely a community issue though

[meager quail]

Hey, at least we're getting rid of Boris soon(tm)

[sweet summit]

not sure what can be done about it at this point

[jagged pier]

git gud or gib up

[meager quail]

There is a lot that could be done to improve the experience on Blizzard's end, but the community will probably always make it difficult no matter how good it is

[jagged pier]

get rid of tier lists. I mean there are also new player communities that help new players so its not all that bad

👍

[sweet summit]

ye true

nuke tier lists

[jagged pier]

imagine being a new player and u really like affi lock or somthing

and your just told its dogshit by everyone and dont get invites

that would suck

[topaz field]

i remember a frost mage in season 1 who was specced into fire because he was afraid ppl would kick him from a 15. As soon as the key started he swapped 😄

if ppl in 15s are like that thats really worrysome

[sweet summit]

ye i used to have a guildie who mained feral and did the same with boomie

[topaz field]

hard to do with prot warrior tho 😄

[serene steppe]

man m+ affixes this week are da big poop

I can barely survive the first DoS pulls, lets make them enrage!

[topaz field]

this is one of the better fortifide weeks

but its hard for the tank ye

[serene steppe]

All affixes are just for the tank or healer, if you are dps your only issue is finding a reason every week to trashtalk

[topaz field]

nah thats not true xD

dont get tilted 🙂

did u analyse why u died on first pull?

[cobalt seal]

not pressing buttons issue?

[topaz field]

or what your problems were

usually u die to magic

or dont press your buttons

on that pull

[serene steppe]

I had a guy "complimenting" my tanking because he stood on me at first boss in Halls

[topaz field]

because there are 2 casters that hurt

[serene steppe]

I just run out of cds to use and usually die

[cobalt seal]

sounds like you aren't hurting your hand

[topaz field]

on first pull u should never ever die

[serene steppe]

Nope, I tried to play necrolord and it was pretty bad. I cant keep banner up for too long

Not first pull, usually 2nd is much worse

[topaz field]

u just need practice on necro its really not that easy

ye second hurts also but only if u miss kicks or reflect

u have to be careful with reflect tho couz smallies apply a magic debuff that eats your reflect

[serene steppe]

Necro is so much more work for hardly any benefit

[topaz field]

that is very untrue

[cobalt seal]

what

[topaz field]

the benefit is a lot of dmg

[cobalt seal]

HARDLY ANY BENEFIT?

[topaz field]

and a lot more survivability

[cobalt seal]

22% str

[serene steppe]

How is it more survivability

[cobalt seal]

is hardly any benefit?

what

[topaz field]

22 % str is giga omega good for survivability

[cobalt seal]

more rage - more surv

more str - more surv

[jagged pier]

https://tenor.com/view/the-rock-rock-gif-21708339

[sweet summit]

more strength = more armor + more damage + more AP
more AP = bigger IP
more mastery = more crit block
more rage generation = more IP = more indom healing = shorter cooldowns on wall/avatar = less damage taken

[serene steppe]

Yeah its better for physical dmg, doesnt do anything for magic dmg taken which is what usually does most dmg

[topaz field]

also untrue

[serene steppe]

Physical dmg is never a problem

[topaz field]

ip is good against magic

[sweet summit]

more rage generation = more IP = more indom healing = shorter cooldowns on wall/avatar = less damage taken

[topaz field]

not good

[jagged pier]

more rage generation = more IP = more indom healing = shorter cooldowns on wall/avatar = less damage taken

[cobalt seal]

have you consider that you know nothing about current pwar?

so it's better to not try and make weird takes?

[jagged pier]

toxic cro

[cobalt seal]

[cobalt seal]

I can buy the removal of your bear emotes

[serene steppe]

Ye well, if I have to choose between yoinking a spear on the ground and breaking my hand, Im taking the spear

[strong forum]

Kyrian is not bad, but necro is just miles tankier

That's about it

[topaz field]

well if its wish day im playing kyrian ww again in my group Ch4nG3 My M1nd

[jagged pier]

u dont even need ot break your hand for necro to be better

[jagged pier]

https://tenor.com/view/the-rock-rock-gif-21708339

[serene steppe]

Im not denying it is, I just dont get how you can have such high banner uptime

[strong forum]

Press alot of SS, rev and IP

[serene steppe]

I barely had 40% in a dun

[strong forum]

And charge weave

[jagged pier]

by 👏 playing 👏 correctly

[topaz field]

in a dungeon like dos u are doing a lot wrong if u have low uptime

like 40 % is a desaster

[strong forum]

DoS is shit for banner cuz of the traveltime

[cobalt seal]

and skips

[topaz field]

in pug route there should not be too much travel

[strong forum]

I only had like 74% banner uptime, still did 15k dps but could've been better

Cuz you will have 1min without banner after first pack

Then after xyexa you'll be left without a banner on 1 of the next 2 pulls

[serene steppe]

Granted I did try it for the first time last week with sanguine and had to be running to kite mobs more than be at them

[strong forum]

Necro takes practice, but once that practice has been had its great

But indeed alot harder than kyrian

Cuz it doesn't get much simpler than just "send spear"

[undone verge]

Same thing with pf I’ve found. There’s certain points where it’s decent but after the first boss there’s barely any chain able packs

[strong forum]

Nah pf is awesome

[topaz field]

what really tilts me off are the TOP platforms

[strong forum]

It's only the tentacle gauntlet where you can't chain

[undone verge]

And after second boss traveling across the slime stuff, then after every single boss there’s basically 10 sec of travel time at least

[strong forum]

Youll have like 35sec left of banner after you kill first boss, that banner you can chain until tentacles, then you don't use banner until you engage the platforms in 2nd boss room

From there on out you can carry banner until end of dungeon

[undone verge]

True, still harder than NW, Spires, mists (if healer knows what they’re doing) SD and halls imo

[strong forum]

I've found NW very easy to drop banner cuz of the long wait times for golems/next group to spawn in necropolis

[grave crane]

i suggest you try to keep banner up on a target dummy riky that will help you

[serene steppe]

Does the dummy give enough rage to practice it?

[undone verge]

The necro gauntlet yeah, usually if you get enough uptime on the first pack with LS you can chain it to the second one, but for goliaths just have the kyrian spawn orbs when the pack is low

[strong forum]

You should be able to generate enough rage on your own Riky

[topaz field]

@serene steppe yes

[strong forum]

Without intervene and without being hit back

[grave crane]

i mean you use the tanking dummy but you will need to charge weave and if an afk asshole is around intervene weave

[topaz field]

u have to make work of all your abilities and your lego

[serene steppe]

Do I only use banner when last stand is ready?

[grave crane]

also the last stand conduit helps imensly

no

[strong forum]

No

[grave crane]

send on cd

[undone verge]

Use banner when you drop it

If you still have banner left when it comes off cd, save it

[strong forum]

^

[grave crane]

true i forgot it resets and doesnt just add to it

[strong forum]

You can get 100% banner uptime without using intervene and without being hit

On a target dummy

[undone verge]

It should, 15 seconds left, used banner, 30 seconds left

[topaz field]

i agree but i think ppl should get used to their reprisal

because its key to be tanky

[strong forum]

Well sure, but I mean you have to charge weave

To get that uptime

Which is the hard part of reprisal, not intervene

[undone verge]

Fights like lords of dread are god awful for charge weaving

And intervening

[strong forum]

Charge before every tank swap, charge during cleave

[grave crane]

intervene easy, just intervene a melee dont care who. charge was more annoying

[strong forum]

Just make sure to not aim cleave into raid and you can weave pretty comfortably

Just gotta charge the boss you're not actively tanking

[grave crane]

that sounds like a raid problem not a me problem

thats a joke btw

[undone verge]

I usually charge the boss right after leeching then intervene the tank while I’m there

I honestly find lihivum really hard to keep up banner idk what do you guys think

[grave crane]

not during the active part, cause the knock back is free charge

[jagged pier]

???????????????????????

[strong forum]

Isnt lihuvim literally the easiest boss for us

[jagged pier]

one of

[undone verge]

Skolex and sausage are free 100%

Same with rygelon

[grave crane]

rygelon was pretty free too

[undone verge]

Yeah

[grave crane]

but that fight was annoying cause the dps who cant look at the ground wiped the raid

[jagged pier]

jailer pretty free

[cobalt seal]

what's dif with liv

unless

you are tanking it

in narnia

[grave crane]

not when you pull threat from the other tank

[undone verge]

Every single week

[jagged pier]

no its fine u just work it out so they taunt just before cleave in P4

then u can have the boss

[grave crane]

im talking p1 and p2 aggro ripping

[jagged pier]

🤷

i get to high threat just before a los mostly

then its usually my taunt straight after

so its not an issue]

[undone verge]

Imagine doing mythic jailer 😢

[jagged pier]

sometimes i have to stop for sure

[grave crane]

yeah i just had to stop pressing buttons occasionally and that makes it harder to keep banner up

[undone verge]

My guild can’t do sausage mechanics so we stopped prog lol

[jagged pier]

i havent dont hc jailer in months

sausages is free as fuck tho

[undone verge]

Honestly

[jagged pier]

u dont even need NF of venthyr for it never have

[undone verge]

It’s literally just one shots

People trying to do rings getting hit by frontal cone, people not doing the solo soak mechanics right, standing on each other for rings

[strong forum]

https://tenor.com/view/frankly-thats-a-skill-issue-hazzikostas-ion-ion-hazzikostas-skill-issue-gif-21595688

[jagged pier]

u only get 1 shot by rings if u go through it within 2 yards of someone else

[undone verge]

Yep

Also on skolex I had to take a solid 2-3k dps loss as fury calling out every single time those blue swirls spawned for our melee

[strong forum]

Dafuq

I would literally just say "watch feet"

[grave crane]

i take a dps loss for fury cause im bad at it

[strong forum]

And make fun of everyone who'd die to that

[sweet summit]

just have dbm/bw coundown for you

[strong forum]

Exactly

[undone verge]

If I missed one call out on blue swirls at least one person would die to it

[sweet summit]

both visually and auditory

[topaz field]

another option is just to watch your monitor

and dodge

[undone verge]

We even made them all get weakauras with timers on it

Specifically for that mechanic

[strong forum]

That sounds like sensory overload for your raid

Tbh lad

[undone verge]

I mean if we don’t call it out they die to it

[cobalt seal]

and why did you lose dps?

because of it?

[undone verge]

Cause I need to stare at the timer the entire fight

[cobalt seal]

what

[jagged pier]

range check

ez pz

[cobalt seal]

I don't whats worst

your raid team

or you losing dps

to stare at timers

[undone verge]

I’m loosing dps cause I’m calling out the same mechanic every 8 seconds and I need to call it out a second in advance or someone dies and fucks over melee

[cobalt seal]

have you consider a warning for yourself

[undone verge]

I can’t worry about capping rage or watching my raging blow procs as much as I would focusing on my dps

[cobalt seal]

big wigs counts down stuff

you just say

blue shit in 5

[undone verge]

Didn’t work had to call out exactly when they needed to move

Otherwise someone gets hit

[cobalt seal]

it counts down from 5 to 1

😐

you literally don't have to stare at counter for it

lol

[undone verge]

Like I said, they all had weakauras with the exact timer of the mechanic and all had dim or bigwigs

But if I missed a call out or said it was coming to early or a lil too late someone gets hit

[cobalt seal]

make them learn the hard way

[topaz field]

ye honestly

skolex is not filled with too many mechanics

[undone verge]

Which is why I had to devote all of my attention to making sure I didn’t miss a callout or anything. Yeah we talked after skolex about that

[cobalt seal]

that wasn't what I said

lol

and you calling everything

is just making things worst

[strong forum]

The danger of calling everything all the time is that people rely entirely on you to watch out for a mechanic
So once you try to tone it down, they're suddenly lost

[cobalt seal]

especially since you are losing dps

[undone verge]

Yeah It’s building bad habits, we talked about that.

That’s what I’m saying

[cobalt seal]

if RL was calling that every xs

it would been muted after 10m

[undone verge]

We did the callouts cause we didn’t want 60 wipes on skolex because melee couldn’t do the simple mechanic. But yeah it definitely doesn’t build good habits

[topaz field]

u have to call out ppl

in a polite way

[undone verge]

100% there needs to be accountability, the main issue is the raids was on thin ice and ppl where getting frustrated and taking breaks so we couldn’t really afford 60 wipes on ‘easy bosses’ otherwise ppl stop showing up

[cobalt seal]

then let people take breaks

[undone verge]

Yeah I mean that’s why we stopped proving on sausage

Either ppl get burnt or we give it till DF when hopefully people want to play

[blazing condor]

Like kungen said raiders dont need a rl :^)

[jagged pier]

i mean in some respects he is correct

he did say they didnt need a raid leader to tell about every mechanic

but then in SL prooved that he actually needed one because he had no clue about any mechanics

and how they worked

[cobalt seal]

He still plays?

[jagged pier]

no

but he was going to prove everyone modern wow is easy in SLs and have a top 20 guild

his guild didnt even clear CN hc

👍

[dawn canyon]

looks like it isnt that easy

[cobalt seal]

CN HC wasnt even that hard

It was mostly the gear wall

[dawn canyon]

it was easy enough for me tanking it on a pala with ZERO experience

first raid

i miss the mirrors

[jagged pier]

my guild took till like mythic prog to realise u could aim the cone at the adds for a damage increase

[sick sentinel]

castle nathria besides one wall boss fight and second to last fight being hard cn is like one of tge better raids

it doesnt feel like that raid was just thrown together

[chrome falcon]

SLG wasn’t bad because it was hard it was just terribly designed and insanely buggy

[sick sentinel]

if blizzard makes df so thereis no real noticable bugs, players will come back

cuz it then shows the developers are caring enough not to just serve poorly cut and trimmed nearly raw steaks and saying its ready

[strong forum]

Yeah not gonna happen

Especially with the PH release date being this year

[sick sentinel]

mmm... maybe 10.3 i come bsck then if anything starts having clear conduit covenant type issues

cuz, this season, not 100% sure hos it works, but there is mega dungeonss for m+ i guess?

[dawn canyon]

PH?

[sweet summit]

placeholder

[sick sentinel]

i think they replace the current pool we have now, and i never plsyed wod or legion, so iwont know any of the bosses or rputes or trash abilities

recipe for disaster imo

[chrome falcon]

yogi there are no legion dungeons next season

and you don’t really need to know anything that happens in either of the wod dungeons

[sweet summit]

karazan is/was legion no?

[chrome falcon]

apart from kara I guess yeah

but kara easy

[sweet summit]

[sick sentinel]

its return to karazhan is onr of them i think, thats from legion isnt it because similiar lay out different bosses mechanics?

[chrome falcon]

the only hard part of kara is tyrannical curator

dps love getting hit by those swirlies

[sick sentinel]

and like thats what i mean if im wrong that its not in legion, know so little about it dont even know what expansion it comes from

[dawn canyon]

so its like ventunax?

[dawn canyon]

kara new is legion

[chrome falcon]

no curator is actually kind of hard

like

the swirlies come out FAST

and they’re big

[dawn canyon]

speed comparable to the ones from spires angels

?

[sick sentinel]

ill probably quit and leave it to the sweaty bois tbh

[chrome falcon]

sure that’s about right

but bigger

[dawn canyon]

trying to think of a good comparison size wise

[strong forum]

Ya curator you gotta stack and split up quite fast

[chrome falcon]

yep

you had to premove basically

[sick sentinel]

i didnt play during legion, i know there will br legion veterans malding tf out if i go tanking that and i forget the other places, could manage to remember mecha gnome dungeon

[topaz field]

the worst part is having to play streets for another 5 months

oh my god this dungeon is so fucking boring

[chrome falcon]

kara is very easy

upper kara is literally a corridor

most hold W dungeon since m+ came out

docks and depot the same

[sick sentinel]

i think imma tap out most likely

[chrome falcon]

lower kara is basically hold W

Oh boy

Wowhead pwarr wish list

Let’s see how bad this is

[dawn canyon]

who even made it

[lofty widget]

llarold

[cobalt seal]

Weak mind

[dawn canyon]

dude so far this is pretty good

[sick sentinel]

more Rage generation to spend on Ignore Pain

[lofty widget]

well it's not all terrible tbh, except UF 🤢

[sick sentinel]

dear god no why

[jagged pier]

@candid path I AGREE

[candid path]

🙂

[sweet summit]

[chrome falcon]

Advocates for removing ignore pain and adding heroic strike???

TRUE AND BASED AND REAL????

[sweet summit]

wrong and cringe and fake

[candid path]

It won't happen, but I can dream.

[dawn canyon]

i like the revenj idea

[chrome falcon]

The funny thing is that IP right now basically functions like heroic strike

[candid path]

yup

[chrome falcon]

Spammable off GCD (effective) damage

[jagged pier]

dont want dragon scales back from legion

[lofty widget]

wait heroic strike was off gcd?

[chrome falcon]

Sir

[jagged pier]

back in the old old day it effected or next melee

[candid path]

I mean, it's indisputably better than Heroic Strike because you don't have to be in melee range for it to work, which is kinda the problem with wanting HS to replace IP

it's BDK syndrome, but it would be cooler

[chrome falcon]

In the Ancient Times it was next melee, at some point I think it just became an instant hit? That might be fake

[candid path]

that's correct, yes

[sick sentinel]

heroic strike just feels good to use too

[chrome falcon]

Then it got replaced by focused rage

And then it faded into the nether realm

[dawn canyon]

replaced by critcake

[chrome falcon]

(Bring back FR+Vengeance+Ultimatum from 7.0 pls)

I miss ultimatum

Made SS crits super satisfying

[sweet summit]

surprised you didn't complain about baseline Last Stand, Llarold
explain yourself

[candid path]

it's definitely more interesting than Ignore Pain is it's currently built, even if the IP design is stronger

[candid path]

I mean, it should be buffed, but I was already 'suffering from overlength' and I want to keep it realistic

[chrome falcon]

I forgot how good the Siege set bonus was

[candid path]

Maybe I should have asked for the moon with the expectation of getting nothing. Instead I asked for SB uptime, Rage gen, and CD uptime with the expectation of getting nothing.

[sweet summit]

[candid path]

it's stunning how good some of the old bonuses were, yeah

[dawn canyon]

did the rogues do any wishlists

[candid path]

I think a couple of days ago, yeah

[dawn canyon]

cuz if we get something like theirs god damn

[candid path]

or maybe before their talents dropped, I can't recall

[chrome falcon]

We need what combat got

[candid path]

I mean, that is the absolute dream, just getting huge group DPS utility

[dawn canyon]

rogue quality warrior tree is all i want

[chrome falcon]

AM that effects the whole party

[dawn canyon]

huh

[sick sentinel]

😠

[chrome falcon]

I think this was the only wish list

Where the artifact ability got 0 shoutout

[sick sentinel]

no shield spikes mentioned.... reeeeeeeeee

[chrome falcon]

And it didn’t deserve one

[candid path]

I mean, zero shot it gets brought back

it was an insanely strong defensive CD, but it's basically like asking for Fleshcraft to continue forward

1. No

2. It won't.

3. I didn't actually find it fun to use.

[chrome falcon]

I think one way to solve the shield block issue would be to make blocking worse but much easier to maintain

And then have a spender that guarantees crit blocks

[sweet summit]

how was it not fun to use? (i didn't play idk)

[candid path]

Absolutely

[sweet summit]

but it sounds great on paper

[chrome falcon]

It did 0 damage

[candid path]

It was legitimately just Fleshcraft

[chrome falcon]

Was a frontal

Couldn’t move

[sick sentinel]

flesh craft 1.0 sucked

[chrome falcon]

Did 0 damage

[candid path]

it was a 3s channel that made you Crit Block everything

[chrome falcon]

Did I mention the damage

[sick sentinel]

iwas there, on my mage

[candid path]

and it did dozens of DPS

[chrome falcon]

Every other tank artifact ability fucking

CRANKED

[jagged pier]

dragon scales was more fun than fury of nef and it was a random proc

[candid path]

that's also true

[jagged pier]

[chrome falcon]

Ours was a huge dps loss

[dawn canyon]

dozens in legion with one mil dps classes

sounds uh

shit

[chrome falcon]

It was situationally the best tank spell in the game though

[sweet summit]

[chrome falcon]

Oh this aggramar combo hit by BDK for 90% of their hp?

[dawn canyon]

so its anhyldes without dps but more defensive?

[candid path]

exactly

[chrome falcon]

My IP didn’t get broke

[candid path]

it completely trivialized the damage from spears on Cenarius

[candid path]

like Annhylde's + Fleshcraft + Zen Med

[chrome falcon]

That’s why I would like to see some kind of on demand crit block because it’s situationally SO nuts

[jagged pier]

made double soaking madien slams ez

👍

[chrome falcon]

Crit blocking was also stronger in legion

With the right relics

[sweet summit]

was there not a cap on crit blocks?

[chrome falcon]

Could be high 70s in terms of %

But the problem was that like

[sick sentinel]

i want typical warrior hold shield up animation or something while sb activated

[chrome falcon]

3 seconds of guaranteed crit block might do LITERALLY nothing on a ST boss

You’re gonna block 2 melees and you might have just crit blocked them anyway

Every other tank artifact was use-on-CD high damage nuts, you could easily go a whole raid night without pressing ours

[candid path]

it also played even harder into the issue Warrior has had for as long as the Shield Barrier/Ignore Pain skill has existed

[sick sentinel]

like this guy

[candid path]

that blockable damage is non-threatening, and unblockable damage is OMG HELP HELP

[chrome falcon]

Yeah

[sweet summit]

ye but like how do they fix that without making us broken

[sick sentinel]

you can very clearly see he has shield hekd up high, ready to block shit

[chrome falcon]

Maybe bring it back but add that it lets you block spells

Maybe not CRIT block spells but

[lofty widget]

nerfing block and that ye

like paladins?

[chrome falcon]

Though I guess then that’s just another SF

SR*

[sweet summit]

that'd be the issue, just being a paladin instead of being a warrior

which is not a good look

[chrome falcon]

I dunno I do think block needs to be nerfed to make it reasonable to have 100% uptime

[sweet summit]

(paladins are stinky)

[chrome falcon]

True

[candid path]

I enjoy Pally quite a lot right now, but they still have the same problem they have always had

great damage reduction, insanely easy to die on to a spike

[chrome falcon]

Yeah not sure how a paladin would deal with missing a few consecutive blocks on jailer pre-nerf

[candid path]

you die

[sweet summit]

lol

[sick sentinel]

kind of same with dk if they get cauggt without thier big dr cd

[dawn canyon]

you proc ardent and die through

[chrome falcon]

fine by me like shields aren’t even that heavy bro just hold it up towards the boss

It was a good article though I was very worried it would advocate for BFA prot to come back so thank you for not doing

THAT

[candid path]

way back in the olden days, before Discords there was a concept called TMI: the Theck-Meloree Index, it was basically a damage-taken smoothness metric, which ranked the tanks in terms of worst-case effective health

and Paladin was always turbo garbo

[candid path]

ty

[rotund terrace]

need to combine revenge and shield block into one move

[sweet summit]

SotR?

[sweet summit]

[chrome falcon]

Ok hear me out

[dawn canyon]

this is the nerfed spell

[chrome falcon]

We make this hearthstone card a real ability

[dawn canyon]

it used to do 5

[sweet summit]

ok phil

ty

[dawn canyon]

np

[chrome falcon]

We get some new way of putting up Sb

But you can shatter it to do a bunch of damage depending on how long is left on that SB

[rotund terrace]

is prot gonna have access to die by the sword?

[chrome falcon]

Almost certainly not

[dawn canyon]

prolly not

[sweet summit]

probably not

[chrome falcon]

Would be sicko though

[lofty widget]

probably not

[dawn canyon]

seems a tad overtuned

almost like drw 😵‍💫

[lofty widget]

dbts but 50 % parry chance?

[chrome falcon]

Yeah also an immunity to auto attacks uh

[rotund terrace]

they could do that and get rid of shield wall

[chrome falcon]

Not quite what we need rn

Wow yeah that would be

[sweet summit]

god no

[chrome falcon]

Rancid!

[sweet summit]

bad idea

poopoo

[dawn canyon]

parry is dr too but like

[karmic plinth]

DR effect to deep wounds

[chrome falcon]

I too desire the sweet embrace of death at the hands of magic damage

[sick sentinel]

no, sw vital to survibal of prot

[rotund terrace]

give me spell parry

[chrome falcon]

Now you’re talking

[lofty widget]

is that a thing atm?

[sick sentinel]

give me death

[chrome falcon]

Maybe that’s our answer to holy shield

Holy sword

[dawn canyon]

ppal has it somewhat

spell block rather

[rotund terrace]

current ignore pain is the worst button to press

[sweet summit]

lightning reflexes

[rotund terrace]

i would rather it stronger on a long cooldown

[sweet summit]

miss me with that magic bs

[sick sentinel]

the power to crush any who would oppose me

[chrome falcon]

But yeah step 1 on DF will hopefully be total rethinking of IP

Lame button

[drifting juniper]

warrior wishlist is out on wowhead and i myself don't care about any of the things he said aside from spellreflect one

[lofty widget]

it's a good writeup tbh

[sweet summit]

i agree with most of it, just lacking that LS thing (i hate last stand)

[rotund terrace]

i think he was right about the overall issue

too much reliance on active mitigation compared to other tanks

[chrome falcon]

The writer has clear disdain for reprisal so actually it was a good article

[sweet summit]

based

[rotund terrace]

active mitigation should be stronger than passive

[sick sentinel]

no i love last stand more hp

[drifting juniper]

too much reliant on active migitation compared to toher tanks

paladin has entered the chat

[sweet summit]

paladins AM is weaker

[minor helm]

ur based

[sweet summit]

and they have high uptime naturally

[minor helm]

[karmic plinth]

his other article called out brewmaster for niazuo degeneracy 😈

[chrome falcon]

Paladin doesn’t have to think about their active mit beyond their basic rotation

[karmic plinth]

truly based

[chrome falcon]

They also have giant self healing

[candid path]

I like it for the first 20 minutes I am playing it, then I hate it

[sick sentinel]

based on what?

[chrome falcon]

And a cheat death

[sweet summit]

our AM is very strong which makes us have very low uptime naturally

[chrome falcon]

So yes paladin does not rely on their mit as much as we do

But it’s close

[drifting juniper]

Self healing part comes in expense of active migitation, for example if you are getting hit by wicked bolts and bears are on you on Halls of atonement

you are in a pickle

[rotund terrace]

IP needs to be a button I rarely press

or a passive

[chrome falcon]

Well I don’t agree with that

[lofty widget]

we kinda need a rage dump tho

[chrome falcon]

That sounds slow and boring

[lofty widget]

just make it good

[sick sentinel]

heroic strike

[rotund terrace]

they can rework rage dump into other areas

[lofty widget]

i dont wanna be a lame 50 cpm tank...

[sweet summit]

^

[chrome falcon]

The most important thing for me is that we have an off GCD rage dump for damage, and for healing

[drifting juniper]

but i honestly don't think they will make warrior stronger againts magical damage without making it weaker againts physical

[chrome falcon]

That has always been profs “thing” for me

[drifting juniper]

do you guys even feel physical when doing keys

[sweet summit]

i don't think we're getting an off gcd offensive spender

that's a bit too optimistic

imo

[karmic plinth]

dont think we need it

[candid path]

I would agree, but I would like it

[sweet summit]

right now we kinda want it

but also

[chrome falcon]

Heroic strike bottom of class tree

[sweet summit]

with tier and double lego gone

[chrome falcon]

Lemme take it over spear

[sweet summit]

our rage generation is probably stinky poopoo again

so we likely won't need it

[rotund terrace]

they're gonna give prot necrolord or something

[sweet summit]

unless they rework rage generation

for 10.0

[lofty widget]

well make it a talent

so we swap naturally with better gear etc

[chrome falcon]

Prot keeping banner would be as shitty as keeping reprisal imo

[drifting juniper]

i think outburst will find it's way into talent tree

[chrome falcon]

I’m tired of this play style now

[candid path]

Fwiw, BDK is keeping its same base playstyle and adding Runic Empowerment and Empowered Rune Weapon

[drifting juniper]

Bdk doesnt have playstyle right now

[candid path]

Warrior can ask for more than 15 Rage per shield slam

[drifting juniper]

its heart strike spam

i don't think they will keep it like this

[chrome falcon]

Yeah needing OVER 2 shield slams for one IP

Is like

Absurd

[candid path]

It's insane

[sweet summit]

i hope we get more than 3 rage/s when taking damage too
and maybe a bit more than 2 rage per AA

or just have SS/TC generate a lot more

[chrome falcon]

Especially since the first 30 rage of every pull has to go onto SB

Put rage gen back on deva

Cowards

[drifting juniper]

if they don't make devestator baseline they are smoking something

even 1 point of talent is wasted on it

[sweet summit]

i still disagree with that

[chrome falcon]

nah fuck it make me press devastate again

[lofty widget]

nothing will be baseline outside like "core warrior abilities"

[karmic plinth]

if we have to play devastate

[lofty widget]

like shout etc

[chrome falcon]

I’ve been playing classic

[rotund terrace]

IP will be baseline

[chrome falcon]

I’m ready for it

[sweet summit]

we don't need devastator baseline

i'm fine with a talent for it though

[drifting juniper]

did u guys miss ossuary being a talent that 90% of bdks went for

they had to make it baseline

cuz it removed competition in that talent tree from all builds

[chrome falcon]

Did you miss the last 5 years of deva and AM being essentially 100% pick rate and blizzard not caring

[sweet summit]

there is no competition right now

on that row

because the other talents are very bad

[lofty widget]

the reason we take deva atm isnt because its particularily good, it's just that the other 2 are shit

[drifting juniper]

and with current rotation

you don't want to press generator

that often eh

with global cooldown

[lofty widget]

huh, our generators are top prio?

[chrome falcon]

Devastator is the reason SS generates shit all rage

Remove it and make SS gen 25

I am very smart

[sweet summit]

really now?

[chrome falcon]

[sweet summit]

is that true?

[chrome falcon]

I mean it’s probably part of it

[drifting juniper]

i don't think if you don't get devestator the banner build is good at all

[chrome falcon]

Good

[drifting juniper]

its a constant ss spam

[chrome falcon]

No banner build

Banner go bye bye

Bye bye banner! 👋

[sick sentinel]

yes banner bye bye, reprisal too

[karmic plinth]

30 rage on SS and 15 rage on TC do it blizz

[drifting juniper]

yeah but banner will not go bye bye in fact its going to be in warrior side of talents

not prot

[mint gorge]

Wow so gladiator warrior is back now

[chrome falcon]

Wrong and cringe

[sweet summit]

cope

!

[mint gorge]

Jk

[chrome falcon]

[drifting juniper]

it has many playstyles and builds around it in pvp i doubt they remove it

fury and arms in 3s mostly go banner

[rotund terrace]

our penultimate skill at end of tree is sunder armor?

[sweet summit]

oh god

no

[chrome falcon]

If “people do it in current expansion” was a reason for blizz to keep something

[lofty widget]

they dont hve to keep an ability just cause a lot of ppl use it

[drifting juniper]

ah fuck sunder armor

[chrome falcon]

The game wouldn’t change much

WAIT ACTUALLY YES

[sweet summit]

cease

[chrome falcon]

Bring back sunder!!

[sweet summit]

wtf

shjut ujp

[lofty widget]

[drifting juniper]

bring armor pen gems back while you at it

[rotund terrace]

prot tank spot secured.

[chrome falcon]

Not it’s old design