which is exactly whats being argued?
#protection
strong forum
echo egret
it's exacly what I said in the first place, there are serious balance issues
echo egret
makes me think - is it worth designing a route with 3 heroism on the death speakers packs ?
chrome falcon
m+ is already like giga nerfed in this expansion tbh
lofty widget
idk balance is good, we can eat a lot of shit that other tanks cant
sick sentinel
my main gripe with the paladin avenger shield isn't the effect, its more the range and that it can bounce like 17 times (not really i know more like 4)
lofty widget
and we struggle a bit more in other places
would be lame if every tank was good for the same mechanics
brittle owl
our dungeons 🇨🇳
chrome falcon
idk balance is good, we can eat a lot of shit that other tanks cant
these guys gotta try 3rd boss sanguine depth on a different class and see how they feel
strong forum
like i said, the fact that every tank knows about the deathspeaker packs
sick sentinel
i think that avenger shield would be perfect if it had a 20 yard range 15 maybe
strong forum
is a sign of a balancing issues
lofty widget
why?
sick sentinel
and it only hits 1-3, 1 depending on talents etc
lofty widget
we cant have easily avoidable one-two shot mechanics?
strong forum
cuz theyre notoriously more dangerous than any other pack in any other dungeon
sick sentinel
which place is deathspeaker
lofty widget
i mean gambit bolts hit for more than shadowcores
strong forum
gambit packs dont consist of 5 extra mobs doing instant magic nukes
shadowcore is a non issue outside of inspiring
echo egret
shadowcore is a non issue outside of inspiring
*in a premade with vocal comms
prime rivet
I'm subbing in to tank M Jailer this week. I have 272 scale/codex, 246 OWS, 239 weave, and 239 defense matrix. i was going to use codex and scale, but should I use weave/OWS instead?
modern brook
Scale ows very likely
prime rivet
yeah
sick sentinel
me on deathspeaker pack after SR fades
prime rivet
not having a cheat some kinda monkaS on M Jailer
chrome falcon
nah should be fine after the nerf
we're the best tank for the fight
but tbh you could just go scale/weave
if you're subbing in
just to be ultra defensive
prime rivet
all my good tank trinkets are on DH, lol
echo egret
aegis was
strong forum
aegis is like the only that comes to mind
chrome falcon
aegis isn't good on jailer
strong forum
ye
prime rivet
278 codex, 278 scale, 252 weave, 252 defense matrix, 252 shard
prime rivet
lmao
strong forum
and 239 weave is practically the same as 252
so honestly just weave/ows/scale
codex is useless on pwar
prime rivet
i see the pin, but why is it the top used trinket in keys for prot warriors?
drifting fable
they dont sim
strong forum
i see the pin, but why is it the top used trinket in keys for prot warriors?
cuz theyre dumb
300 dps 200 hps
toxic pewter
LOL ok for the record I DID NOT bring up codex
toxic pewter
I noticed sense is lightforged draenei so I actually started leveling one... their racial does actually really good dmg
seems underrated to me in m+
hollow sun
🤡
strong forum
its good dmg
hollow sun
Just play the race you like seeing
toxic pewter
I really think they look really good too
hollow sun
I am biased, but high mountain tauren is the way
And bull rush is quite useful in pugs lol
strong forum
i am biased against tauren
lofty widget
night elf cause they look the best 
hollow sun
i am biased against tauren
Vulpera enjoyer
tired imp
mechagnome
toxic pewter
LFD gang
meager quail
Mechagnome > Gnome > Dwarf >>>>>> Everything else
Assuming you have a mog that involves a robe or a kilt
hollow sun
Looks like a paladin
toxic pewter
lightforged racial is insane tho
no target cap
its actually perfect fit for m+
its surprising no one talks about it
hollow sun
If you can handle the awful animations of female draenei, why not lol
meager quail
Male draenei do not exist, thank god
Tell that to my pocket priest. He plays male LFD and has perma gimp and/or slut mog
hollow sun
Tell that to my pocket priest. He plays male LFD and has perma gimp and/or slut ...
I legit saw more female dwarves than male draenei
meager quail
Don't get me wrong, I wish he didn't exist.
meager quail
This happened within a couple of weeks of him joining his raiding guild
toxic pewter
XD
the LFD racial is the most fun racial too when it hits a bunch of mobs for a lot of dmg it actually feels fun as hell
meager quail
Why do the guides recommend crafting unity on gloves rather than the higher budget slots of helm, chest or legs? I'd have expected the extra budget to be worth more than being able to switch the gloves from tier secondaries to haste/vers.
toxic pewter
unity on belt better than gloves imo cuz of the socket
but yeah I think if you dont raid mythic they say chest is best
if you do run mythic raid helm is best
lofty widget
3rd boss SD does
lofty widget
the swirlies ye
drifting fable
makes sense i think they get shot from the naaru
urban portal
But yeah I think lfd seems decent for m+ damage tanks
meager quail
Why do the wowhead, icy-veins guides recommend gloves then? Like you say, belt is a free socket and iirc has the same budget as gloves. Should I consider those guides unreliable in general?
toxic pewter
yah while leveling as LFD the racial is blowing me away- granted I realize it isnt gamebreaking, but even at mythic+ i think it is underrated or at least should be mentioned more
drifting fable
i wouldnt say theyre unreliable, they are updated less than information that passes through a discord per se
urban portal
yah while leveling as LFD the racial is blowing me away- granted I realize it is...
It’s just that, every dps would rather have stats, and tanks would rather focus on survival a lot of the time
urban portal
It’s good but outclassed
toxic pewter
I think for a tank that wants to go DPS route it is the best
for M+
@shut summit I noticed you went lightforged Draenei do you have any comment on how they are in M+?
meager quail
i wouldnt say theyre unreliable, they are updated less than information that pas...
Oh aye, I expected certain things to be somewhat out of date but I was quite surprised that something like the recommended slot for leggo crafting seemed off, given that nothing has changed since before 9.2 that would impact those recommendations. Made me wonder if people here considered those guides to be decent sources of information in general.
drifting fable
well i think mwahi writes the IV guide, correct me if im wrong, so hes certainly not a bad source
those guides are generalized too, where as alot of the information youll get here is definitey more geared towards min/maxing
urban portal
It doesn’t really matter yeah
meager quail
To be fair, I just had a quick look and I don't think the IV guide actually recommends specific slots. Must have misremembered that.
drifting fable
alot of people have it on belt, ive seen chest and helm too. think it really comes down to if you manage to get 278s on all your tier pieces
toxic pewter
Where are you seeing gloves anyway? It’s belt and ring as far as I can tell
chrome falcon
ok kind of offtopic for this channel but preorders are up and "World of Warcraft®: Dragonflight will be available on or before December 31, 2022."
surely the fuck not right
this is insane
drifting fable
👀
chrome falcon
that's
that makes no sense
that means season 4 must be in like
3 or 4 weeks or something
toxic pewter
I dunno it says it right there LOL
ocean yoke
toxic pewter
Blizzard marketing usually on their game
That’s crazy
No one expected a 2022 release
chrome falcon
this is like
chilly brook
chrome falcon
literally not a good thing
chilly brook
urban portal
^
chrome falcon
which is also way too soon
meager quail
Where are you seeing gloves anyway? It’s belt and ring as far as I can tell
You're right, I did an enormous brain fart there.
toxic pewter
Ya especially since alpha hasn’t even started
toxic pewter
Apparently Dragonflight is very advanced in its stages of development
I’ve heard and read that
chrome falcon
my guild hasn't even started mythic jailer yet
chilly brook
Season 3 could end next month
toxic pewter
They gave up on shadowlands a while ago
chrome falcon
i don't want to miss my CE bruh
chilly brook
And you’d get 3 months of season 4
toxic pewter
Ya
chrome falcon
why even bother with a season 4?
toxic pewter
the timing actually makes sense
toxic pewter
why even bother with a season 4?
Gives somethin for people to do
chrome falcon
but at this rate this patch is only gonna be like 8-9 months
toxic pewter
I actually am looking forward to season 4
lofty widget
they said season 4 would be 4-5 months, so an august release would make sense
chrome falcon
which is long but not CRAZY long
chilly brook
I mean all the nerfs are making sense now
toxic pewter
Gonna be July for sure season 4 starts
drifting fable
they made sense when only 200ish guilds beat mythic lol
toxic pewter
Dang expansions costing 50 now instead of 40. Fukin inflation lol
drifting fable
still cheaper than nintendo 
jagged pier
☝️
strong forum
this is too soon
urban portal
damn the expac is almost 4 wow tokens
jagged pier
this is too soon
100% agree with that one
toxic pewter
damn the expac is almost 4 wow tokens
🤣
jagged pier
havent even seen talent trees
meager quail
this is too soon
Agreed. It's kind of knocked the wind out of my hype sails.
strong forum
yeah...
toxic pewter
I think timing is fine they gave up on shadowlands to develop this more than a year than they usually start in expansions
drifting fable
i dont see a reason to really rush s4
toxic pewter
Alpha will start this week I bet
jagged pier
cuz like we dont even have alpha
THIS
toxic pewter
Truth is blizzard wants shadowlands to end and be forgotten and I do not blame them. Sooner the better we are rid of oribos and shitty shadowlands
chilly brook
Honestly season 4 is a free “hey we can take our time and the player base won’t be pissed” card
cinder storm
i dont see a reason to really rush s4
money
drifting fable
exactly
chrome falcon
they'll already have to announce a delay
have you ever known an expansion release date to be announced less than 6 months before said release date?
urban portal
i have a feeling
chrome falcon
i 100% think they need to show profit for the quarter and are ok with risking the consequences of announcing a delay
like i just do not buy this
urban portal
its gonna correct to dec 31 23
chrome falcon
at all
urban portal
i 100% think they need to show profit for the quarter and are ok with risking th...
Q4 profits are easy for Activision
since cod
chrome falcon
yeah
urban portal
Q3 is their toughest quarter usually
safe thistle
d4 in 2023 so no rush for them
chrome falcon
well that's my point
that's why they're opening preorders now
and actually it's going to be q1 23
chilly brook
What makes you think they wont rush it?
The fact that SL destroyed them
cinder storm
Release unfinished product, have us test it, fix things 3-4 months after release, do things in S3 that should've been done in S1-S2
drifting fable
^
not the first AAA company to do that
just release your beta
dont even need beta testers
cinder storm
Yeah, as long as people buy it, they dont care about the quality
chrome falcon
its gonna correct to dec 31 23
i don't think they're allowed to do that
cinder storm
Look at battlefield
urban portal
they could just say its typo
chrome falcon
then they wouldn't be allowed to have preorders open in several countries
chilly brook
i don't think they're allowed to do that
Pretty sure they’ve done it before
chrome falcon
there are 100% places that you can't have preorders open for games with over a year to their release and you have to have a specific date
so i dunno
this shit makes no sense but we'll see
cinder storm
If they get fined they will probably take the fine instead
Thats like a slap on the wrist for companies
chrome falcon
well it's not just the fine
they'll have to refund them
if they change this release date
cinder storm
Assuming they do, then S4 is going to be left unattended for the most part, balance wise
cinder storm
I dont raid, I only care about m+, but S4 kinda demands it to push m+
lofty widget
not more than usual
cinder storm
More than S3 probably, at least to get the tokens
cinder storm
After that, F raid for me
lofty widget
the tokens only give normal ilvl pieces btw
cinder storm
oh
drifting fable
is that true? theres a separate token for heroic and mythic iirc
lofty widget
no
minor helm
Yeah
minor helm
For upgrading
lofty widget
you get a quest to kill 30-20-10 bosses
drifting fable
ahh
lofty widget
and you have to kill 20 bosses on a respective difficulty to get an upgrade t oken
drifting fable
upgrade specifically gotcha
lofty widget
so 20 mythic bosses or 20 heroic bosses etc
minor helm
and you have to kill 20 bosses on a respective difficulty to get an upgrade t ok...
So a currency?
lofty widget
it's a token like the socket one we have atm
just upgrades an item instead of adding a socket
onyx matrix
Should've just made valor a curreny which you can spend on to buy gear like back in cata
cinder storm
Imagine giving players control on their gear progression, preposterous!
mighty valley
i see the game development experts have logged on
here's the secret: every video game in history is "unfinished"
mighty valley
they originally wanted mario to have a gun but had to cut it for time
maybe they'll release the gun dlc next year
cinder storm
Except we pay a monthly sub
And its like a 15 year old game or something
Nothing beats megaman tho
toxic pewter
who preordered already
cinder storm
I might, mount looks sick
toxic pewter
you gonna get epic edition
honestly epic makes the most sense
30 days game time alone is $15
deep solar
how good is IQD? I have a 278 in my vault but also already have 278 field emitter and 278 So'Leah's
quaint glade
People say it’s not worth taking
I took it back in time too but it’s collecting dust in my bag rn
chrome falcon
bad
ebon wren
I dont like. straight haste trinkets with lower cd I prefer. or if you want dps use overwhelming crystal. crystal+voice+avatar+kyrian spear = !@#$
chrome falcon
kyrian 
toxic pewter
what class you guys gonna main for dragonflight
blazing condor
:warrior:
ebon wren
i dont think we're playing warriors because they dominate the meta
toxic pewter
ya true
sturdy sable
As someone whos going to be looking for a new guild come DF ill probably play what ever is "meta" and switch back to warrior after prog
Which is not fun and i dont recommend
ebon wren
kyrian <:weird:718676218500874320>
dang matta, there's more than necro. Kyrian is FUN
carmine pine
infinite rage is pretty fun
toxic pewter
Ya prot for lyfe
median tulip
who preordered already
I have.
toxic pewter
Ya not cheap 😢
median tulip
what class you guys gonna main for dragonflight
Warrior. On the basis that playing a tank class when Bliz release a new DPS/Healer Hybrid is a solid way to get groups.
toxic pewter
Warrior. On the basis that playing a tank class when Bliz release a new DPS/Heal...
Yep good point
Still hope to see our trees soon
😭
dawn canyon
urban portal
that still means you have to tank
tanking has always been easy to get into groups
especially levelling
median tulip
I'll probably make an Evoker as soon as they are available (probably pre-release patch) as boost it to get a feel for what it's all about
toxic pewter
Ya I try lvlIng dps and just find myself going back to tank lol. It’s just so much more fun and quick
median tulip
that still means you have to tank
Why would I not tank xD
median tulip
Probably
toxic pewter
Interesting idea
sick sentinel
i want to see what this new hearthstone looks like
toxic pewter
And makes sense
median tulip
I still have a Shadowlands 45 boost unused
median tulip
i want to see what this new hearthstone looks like
There's a video on Wowhead. You go translucent during the cast
sick sentinel
i loved the HS from SL pre-order thats my default HS , probably will be for a long time
toxic pewter
Blizzard better do right by us on our trees
If not gonna cancel my preorder
I will show them
sick sentinel
i love the eternal hearthstone, easily the best outside of there is a fire one and a halloween one
great if i reroll paladin or priest, perfect in those cases glowing gold hands, perfect for priest/pally healer
hollow sun
i was thinking, would it be cool if they reworked shattering throw?
something like it wasin wotlk, 20% armor reduction on the target you hit
toxic pewter
Sounds good to me
sick sentinel
would be cool if it silenced or something as well, make pulling easier in m+ for one
median tulip
I just want Shattering Throw to be instant cast TBH
sick sentinel
id be happy with choose all/up to 3 of those above options, or chose at least one of them
or even, you can block while channeling it, or SB grants channel immunity (not hearthstone lol)
toxic pewter
Wait wasn’t shadowlands release date earlier and they delayed it
Something tells me they said it would release out by end of 2022 just to increase sales and they’ll most likely delay release to 2023
urban portal
thats why you dont pre order until last day
cobalt seal
not the pre order talk again xD
toxic pewter
Wat else there to talk about
It just was announced.. lol
You act like it’s old news
toxic pewter
The news of the pre order is just today
narrow fog
Btw, when will pre order not require having shadowlands xpac?
toxic pewter
Whoa whoa whoa relax buddy
narrow fog
My friend wants to know, and I don't have a clue
toxic pewter
LOL
narrow fog
Kek
toxic pewter
Careful. Might ruffle some feathers round these parts
narrow fog
Nah seriously though?
toxic pewter
To be honest it’s always been this way for expansions basically to get to the latest content they make you buy everything up till that point
Just how expansions work
narrow fog
Careful. Might ruffle some feathers round these parts
If this was the DK discord I would be banned already by a mod that has a twitter account with the pride flag and 6 pronouns.
toxic pewter
If this was the DK discord I would be banned already by a mod that has a twitter...
Yikes 😳 sounds about right for dk
narrow fog
More like the mods.
narrow fog
Wait, maybe the mod is here
toxic pewter
Dunno
fallow osprey
toxic pewter
Takes one to know one
narrow fog
So anyway, when will the requirement to having shadowlands be lifted off buying 10.0?
toxic pewter
If it is ever lifted, it will be a while that’s for sure
They want people to spend as much money as possible
narrow fog
Soo, even when it launches I guess?
toxic pewter
And making people buy shadowlands is def part of it
Yeah it will be the case for a long time
narrow fog
Was it the same for shadowlands?
You had to have bfa to play it for the first few months?
modern brook
Shattering throw is sick as is
They just didn't include things for it to be sick against
sonic saddle
what should your choice of stat for soleah's? I only tank keys on my prot warr
lofty widget
haste
urban portal
You had to have bfa to play it for the first few months?
no
once the next expac comes out
the prev expac is free
but no one does it anymore obviously
minor helm
Yeah I had no issue playing slands and it’s my only expansion
sick sentinel
i can get standard edition and then upgrade to epic for reduced price later on before it launches i think correct?
sick sentinel
i just don't want to spend 90 usd + tax atm
narrow fog
no
I just read that the previous xpac (i.e Shadowlands in this case) gets rolled into the base game once Dragonflight pre patch hits
urban portal
yes
sick sentinel
40 or whatever sure
urban portal
thats how it works
narrow fog
Then, you only need to buy Dragonflight.
urban portal
yes
minor helm
i can get standard edition and then upgrade to epic for reduced price later on b...
This worked well into slands for me so should be the same
narrow fog
yes
So, if my friend's only interest is to play 10.0, there is no point in buying SL now, correct?
urban portal
no point
narrow fog
He should just wait and buy it when pre patch hits
sick sentinel
its an issue of i just don't have enough to think about epic being a valid purchase RN lol
narrow fog
Ok, tyvm for explanation.
narrow fog
he should start during pre patch
Is the price bumped up before launch? I.e. 49.99€ for Europe in this case?
sick sentinel
and i'll wait till it come 50% off sale, the optional items do look cool, but not for warrior really, paladin, shaman, hunters, etc will like great on
lofty widget
Is the price bumped up before launch? I.e. 49.99€ for Europe in this case?
nope
narrow fog
Ok, so just wait till pre patch and save 20€. Got it
sick sentinel
if im priest paladin main im mashing the buy epic button right now because the HS gold hands
narrow fog
Ty for clarifying it gents I could not find info.
toxic pewter
No prob
hollow sun
the boost coming with the preorder works only after dragonflight launch?
sonic saddle
the boost coming with the preorder works only after dragonflight launch?
its active right now
sick sentinel
u arent required to use it immediately most likely
hollow sun
u arent required to use it immediately most likely
well no, but i wanted to boost my rog, so i might as well buy it with the preorder
toxic pewter
I’m gonna boost another prot warrior
dawn canyon
2 warrios > 1 wario
narrow fog
What race do you have?
dawn canyon
my warriors are human and orc so im p basic
narrow fog
Holy shit demon flight before 2023
It's gonna get delayed 100%
cobalt seal
I haven’t been banned yet here and people think I’m a troll
think? people know you are a troll
narrow fog
31st december 2022 no1 is gonna play wow on fuckin NYE
wild hemlock
Still. Pretty big announcement
toxic pewter
think? people know you are a troll
Don’t be rude, I do not talk to you in that tone of voice
narrow fog
Still. Pretty big announcement
True.
wild hemlock
31st december 2022 no1 is gonna play wow on fuckin NYE
They never said it was nye release?
narrow fog
They never said it was nye release?
At latest 31st december 2022
wild hemlock
Cro are you being a doorknob again
narrow fog
I mean, you are right, could be Christmas
hollow sun
Leaning toward my lightforged Draenei
🤡
narrow fog
English isn't my first language so I interpreted it wrong
Still, that's like... 6 months
toxic pewter
LFD actually very underrated for mythic+
narrow fog
And there is no alpha yet
dawn canyon
LFD looks bad so i couldnt be one
narrow fog
So either they went full Peon werk werk mode or it's coming out unfinished
sick sentinel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxF_VyrHh0I when i'm being led on a route i've never done before by some 3k's
dawn canyon
but then again half of the pwars are vulpera
toxic pewter
LFD looks bad so i couldnt be one
Lfd female pretty hot
toxic pewter
but then again half of the pwars are vulpera
Ya I am Vulpera
I’m cute fox currently 🦊
hollow sun
So either they went full Peon werk werk mode or it's coming out unfinished
i doubt that. I mean, it would be nice, but you just can't trust blizz
cobalt seal
Cro are you being a doorknob again
narrow fog
Eh i will play it anyway
sick sentinel
but then again half of the pwars are vulpera
is it really that much op or something
or just some furry agenda
narrow fog
With irl friends, how bad can it be
toxic pewter
or just some furry agenda
Vulpera arguable best defensive option tank. Their racial heals 400-600k health per run
Ends up being 5-7% overall healing
It’s really strong
narrow fog
Vulpera arguable best defensive option tank. Their racial heals 400-600k health ...
Roll dwarf master race.
sick sentinel
i like cowstomp wayyyyy to much after not being able to take stormbolt in good faith all of SL
sick sentinel
i would go dwarf to delete debuffs, but uh, then i only get shockwave
cowstomp is stupidly good interupt alterinative trash
sick sentinel
hits in a circle all around you and like 5-8 yards 2 second stun
sick sentinel
it works PERFECT with the spires birds
narrow fog
- roleplay as mountain king from wc3
Use tier 8 warr set as transmog
Trust me
On dwarf
Normal dwarf, fuck dark iron beta dwarf
toxic pewter
Ya I prefer normal dwarf
sick sentinel
what no
toxic pewter
I am leveling one now
narrow fog
Ya I prefer normal dwarf
Chad
sick sentinel
DID or gtfo
sick sentinel
how, u move faster in dungeons
narrow fog
Dwarf is the alliance tank race
toxic pewter
Normal dwarf better
sick sentinel
this is my bread and butter mythic +
DID is bis for my character
i also have limited blacksmith
small character frame to get through doors, mountain king asthetic
toxic pewter
I still think lfd very underrated
dawn canyon
vulp is better in m+ than tauren
toxic pewter
This racial aoe dmg is insane
narrow fog
@toxic pewter roll normal dwarf, do not let these haters sway you from your path.
toxic pewter
<@185160009074737153> roll normal dwarf, do not let these haters sway you from y...
I already did roll normal dwarf in like lvl 30 somethin
Something about them I like more than dark iron
narrow fog
Then you are smarter than me.
narrow fog
Something about them I like more than dark iron
Dark irons are edgelord wannabees
toxic pewter
I think how they look… plus stone form defensiveness feels good
beard options better too
narrow fog
Stoneform used to be -10% all dmg reduction at one point, not just physical
toxic pewter
Ya I remember that
narrow fog
Every alliance tank rerolled dwarf
toxic pewter
I actually was wondering what happened because I saw it said physical recently and I was like wait wat
I swear it was all damage
narrow fog
It's still good, since it now removes all debuffs
Even curses
It used to be only disease poison and bleed
Now it's everything, a good middle ground I would say
toxic pewter
Oh wow that’s true also damn I forgot lol
sick sentinel
i don't have any character on alliance except one, and hes been through faction and server change and back
so, i think i lost my alliance quest experience
narrow fog
Personally, I will play human dk on silvermoon
Alrdy decided
With a warr alt tank
Prob.
Human racial seems rather good
toxic pewter
Yah can’t go wrong with human
narrow fog
+2% all secondary and stun breaker
toxic pewter
Their racials so good
sick sentinel
one of the deciding factors that i rolled prot warrior is that you cant be dazed and demounted while questing as tank spec
sick sentinel
and you never die,
narrow fog
All the alliance racials are good
sick sentinel
so, why would i play anything else?
narrow fog
It's just horde has more ppl generally
Cross faction should fix most of the faction problems
toxic pewter
I’ve always preferred alliance myself
narrow fog
Servers like argent dawn eu might become super popular now
sick sentinel
i have a warning for u all
narrow fog
Because they have both horde and ally raiding guilds
dawn canyon
idk man even if im ally im not going off my horde server
toxic pewter
Ya I’m actually considering finding a balanced server but it’s harder than I thought for NA lol
Most servers super one sided
sick sentinel
if u ever play normal dwarf and you decide to try archaeology on that toon, you will never be able to archaeology on not a normal dwarf ever again comfortably.
toxic pewter
if u ever play normal dwarf and you decide to try archaeology on that toon, you ...
Lol that’s true
sick sentinel
cuz its now 0.5 instead of 1.0 and its stupid stupid stupid faster overall
pallid finch
so we all going dwarf warrior?
toxic pewter
so we all going dwarf warrior?
A lot of people already have lol
narrow fog
Dwarf bis fishing animation
toxic pewter
Dwarf bis fishing animation
Damn really? Dwarf really does look and play well
In all aspects
narrow fog
Dwarf fury warr also good prob, 2% crit dmg
narrow fog
Really strong dwarf racials either way
toxic pewter
Ya I am excited to actually have boots again lmao
toxic pewter
Ya lol I wish
narrow fog
Shoeless mudhut faction
toxic pewter
XD
modern brook
Why are we sharing feet pics of our ocs
narrow fog
Make orc warr, name him Terrorcism
sick sentinel
if you give the horde boots i'll think about staying horde
modern brook
Red is my favorite flavor of warcrimes too
safe thistle
if varyan wouldnt had died i would had stayed alliance
pallid finch
sylvie aint doing it for ya?
narrow fog
if varyan wouldnt had died i would had stayed alliance
I agree, alliance needs a male warrior badass char in lore
toxic pewter
Taralyon about to HAM
narrow fog
Ideally a human warrior that is unhinged and on the brink of mental instability
toxic pewter
He about to become light dictator
safe thistle
all walliance as now is a brad pitt crying
sick sentinel
I agree, alliance needs a male warrior badass char in lore
how about, ressurected varian
narrow fog
how about, ressurected varian
No, we need a new char. Make a human warrior type lore character that is disloyal to stormwind and tries to retake lordaeron
pallid finch
do you not believe in Anduin?
toxic pewter
Ideally a human warrior that is unhinged and on the brink of mental instability
Turalyon is currently the regent king and he is about to lose his mind
narrow fog
No, we need a new char. Make a human warrior type lore character that is disloya...
Again, he needs to be unhinged in a good way.
toxic pewter
So yeah they’re doing that
safe thistle
we wil need a bad ass dark iron dwarf
sick sentinel
anduin realizes his sins and magic super duper holy magic ressurects him from another planet away, anduin dies in the process
narrow fog
we wil need a bad ass dark iron dwarf
You have moira.
toxic pewter
Turalyon about to have light dictatorship and become unhinged tyrant
narrow fog
Muradin is a better dwarf character tho.
narrow fog
Turalyon about to have light dictatorship and become unhinged tyrant
He's a paladin tho.
toxic pewter
Well ya
safe thistle
we gonna get 4 years of dragons now anyway
toxic pewter
Warrior of light
narrow fog
You need a classic warrior hero.
sick sentinel
why can't it be a dwarf or something i think it should be the lvl 55 dwarf DK mentor from nixxioms videos
narrow fog
Actually
toxic pewter
What I’m saying is that isn’t happening. They’re doing everything you said but with Turalyon
narrow fog
I have a master plan to save wow lore
Bring back Garrosh as a Death Knight, wielding the lore version of Shadowmourne.
500 IQ
safe thistle
the only charactere i really liked alliance side so far for a while was in BFA flynn
modern brook
we gonna get 4 years of dragons now anyway
Yeah dragon flights are the last bit of lore they haven't spat on yet
median tulip
Ideally a human warrior that is unhinged and on the brink of mental instability
So... Arthas?
modern brook
Arthas was anakin skywalker
narrow fog
So... Arthas?
Basically an arthas character that doesn't become a death knight/go evil
sick sentinel
how about arthas is so evil
narrow fog
Arthas, who did nothing wrong btw.
safe thistle
Calia went horde so you lost your last Menethil there
sick sentinel
that his soul went through the maw and at the end of the anima tunnel thing is sargares or some final boss and they ressurect him twice as evil
narrow fog
https://youtu.be/ilHROkpf5PY
How it should have ended.
modern brook
that his soul went through the maw and at the end of the anima tunnel thing is s...
Lmao
safe thistle
they had a shitty anduin raid fight to totally destroy arthas there , could had been a cool storyline but no
modern brook
Arthas 2
sick sentinel
hell yeah
narrow fog
they had a shitty anduin raid fight to totally destroy arthas there , could had ...
Watch the video above.
sick sentinel
arthas comes back and says fuck you im gunna take over the world with my undead again
narrow fog
Arthas is saved from his midlife crisis by his buddies 🙂
We need another DK character that isn't one of the 4 horse guys as well
Also unhinged, prefferably
Unhinged characters are always the most popular
sick sentinel
that, or the resonance cascade moment again could be cool for expansion past DF
something normal happening, goes to shit
modern brook
Honestly anything that takes us away from oh no the whole world is in danger plz go to this small subset od places you've never been before to save all the other places u haven't been to in at best 2 decades
At worst ever cause u didn't play pre mists
I would love if world of warcraft became world of warcraft again
worn bear
Ideally a human warrior that is unhinged and on the brink of mental instability
blizzard only knows how to corrupt hero figures like this
narrow fog
blizzard only knows how to corrupt hero figures like this
True. Is sad.
worn bear
otherwise lothar, varian and the original 4 paladins would be perfect examples, although very sound of mind
saidan aside i guess
narrow fog
The story is just too cringe nowadays.
The voice acting is bad.
It's something an 8 year old would write tbh.
Metzen had a better vision of warcraft lore.
worn bear
it’s hard to take the game’s whole aesthetic seriously. it’s very bad sci-fantasy compared to outland
post-wod models look like mobile game avatars
narrow fog
Models are fine.
It's the way the story is being told
With cheesy cinematics.
It really needs better shorter cinematics with better and more original phrasing, better soundtrack useage etc.
worn bear
narrative’s a more glaring issue, i just feel that the art team could be pulling their usual consistency
narrow fog
There is a TON of amazing and unused soundtracks in warcraft 3.
worn bear
then again idk how difficult it is to stay true to concept art bc it’s looked sick
narrow fog
For dramatic effects and purposes.
mighty valley
this is heavily nostalgia based imo, i listen to wc3 cutscenes i thought were cool as a kid and the voice acting was cringe then too
narrow fog
this is heavily nostalgia based imo, i listen to wc3 cutscenes i thought were co...
I was reffering to the soundtracks.
narrow fog
Otherwise, yes, ofc it has some bad stuff.
mighty valley
i liked the anduin cutscene, honestly
narrow fog
But wc3 tft ending cinematic is the best cinematic ever made.
The soundtrack, the angles, the background voices. Very impressive.
Was made in 2003 btw. Ofcourse, it had a compact storyline behind it, so it was the icing on the cake(hehe cause the frozen throne is made of ice, get it hehe? Ok ill stop).
sick sentinel
boomer dad joke
narrow fog
Coomer joke
mighty valley
also just easier to tell a tighter story in something as narrow and linear as the old RTSs
although there's a lot of bizarre shit when you examine wc3/tft too closely lol
narrow fog
also just easier to tell a tighter story in something as narrow and linear as th...
True.
narrow fog
although there's a lot of bizarre shit when you examine wc3/tft too closely lol
For instance?
sick sentinel
might try shaman, or mage
have a 1/8th the way there mage, zero effort on him
hes got a legendary but he sucks lol
mighty valley
was just thinking about the illidan mission in wc3 where illidan is committed to fighting demons while being good this time. he's just out of prison. then arthas rides up out of absolutely nowhere and says "hey bro, you could try the skull of gul'dan. you've never heard of me and i'm a clearly dead man"
illidan's like "yeah i'll try that"
then turns into a giant demon and says "hey tyrande, did i do good"
narrow fog
was just thinking about the illidan mission in wc3 where illidan is committed to...
makes sense though.
narrow fog
then turns into a giant demon and says "hey tyrande, did i do good"
*turns into a demon in order to kill Archibald's right hand man.
if he doesn't take the skull of gul'dan, he can't beat tichondrius.
if he doesn't beat tichondrius, the chances for good guys to win in final mission goes down dramatically.
mighty valley
yeah it's just silly macguffin shit that people would complain about on reddit these days
narrow fog
yeah it's just silly macguffin shit that people would complain about on reddit t...
haha yea probably. it works better in an RTS environment.
i mean the reason kil'jaeden says to illidan: "your betrayal caused our defeat", was because he killed tichondrius.
mighty valley
then illidan goes to outland and beats up another demon, before the demon he originally signed a contract with says "this story is a dead end. i asked you to go fight arthas. go do that."
tries that, loses
cries in black temple for the rest of his life
then 15 years later blizzard says "actually he was doing it for good the whole time:
why the fuck did illidan become a fan favorite
oh wait, he's hot and has wings AND horns
narrow fog
then 15 years later blizzard says "actually he was doing it for good the whole t...
the retcon should not affect what happened before it
idk, i personally liked the story
it's very straight forward
and easy to follow
i mean even in the last undead mission of reign of chaos, you basically get a hint that the Lich King will betray the demons.
mighty valley
i mean that's fine, i just think the only thing that's massively changed between then and now is we didn't have a big content generation hate machine to get mad about tiny story details
chrome falcon
i would agree with you up to a point but shadowlands story is absolutely terrible
i didn't need to see anyone else tell me that to form that opinion
narrow fog
i mean that's fine, i just think the only thing that's massively changed between...
shadowlands is objectively worse story than wc3
it's not just the hate machine
chrome falcon
calling it objectively worse is obviously stupid but
mighty valley
i mean, i personally agree, don't love a lot of the major shadowlands beats
mighty valley
there's some stuff where i can see through to the intent and the execution just kind of couldn't get there
narrow fog
the cutscene
narrow fog
there's some stuff where i can see through to the intent and the execution just ...
yes, i would agree with this.
if they made the Jailer a more notorius and cunning villain, it would be better.
mighty valley
but is it worse than, say, TBC? TBC story was absolutely nothing and just killed off promising characters after they did nothing
narrow fog
but is it worse than, say, TBC? TBC story was absolutely nothing and just killed...
tbc story is pretty bad too.
mighty valley
that's where i draw the line - lots of modern wow fans act like the MMO story has actually been good until recently
narrow fog
that's where i draw the line - lots of modern wow fans act like the MMO story ha...
wotlk was a very good story imo.
vanilla didn't really have any story that is connected
mighty valley
wotlk had good and bad. benefited a lot from being more focused
mighty valley
honestly thought the lich king showing up on a bunch of tiny solo quests started to make him corny
narrow fog
honestly thought the lich king showing up on a bunch of tiny solo quests started...
i liked it
mighty valley
pointless tournament arc
narrow fog
pointless tournament arc
this, yes.
mighty valley
and at the time forum ragers were very mad about the ICC final in-game cutscene
narrow fog
trial of crusader was the bad part of the lore
mighty valley
and i can see why... annoying that we just lose until tirion does a stupid jump move
narrow fog
and i can see why... annoying that we just lose until tirion does a stupid jump ...
i thought it was good
and it made sense, LK is supposed to be very strong.
modern brook
Problem wasn't lk being a god
mighty valley
and then i was personally mad that the whole Icecrown zone story had you come to the conclusion that there was absolutely nothing left of Arthas's good soul... and then in the final cutscene he cries to his dad's ghost
modern brook
It was tirion being there at all
All my hard work snd some dweeb shows up and takes the credit solo zzzz
mighty valley
yeah tirion boring. get out of here dude. glad you died to a completely random demon
narrow fog
my personal opinion is that it was good
narrow fog
it wasn't as cheesy
modern brook
Fuck paladins tbh
modern brook
Actually I take it back
narrow fog
i don't think you can easily come up with a better way to kill arthas
modern brook
Tirion dying to some shitty bathtub midboss makes the ICC ending even worse
I don't have to
It's not my job to make a good ending
narrow fog
didn't mean you specifically
modern brook
That doesn't mean I can't criticize a bad one when I see it
narrow fog
meant in general
mighty valley
you can invent literally anything, that's the magic of writing
modern brook
you can invent literally anything, that's the magic of writing
Also the magic of magic
mighty valley
even if tirion used the last of his strength to like. power us up with the light for a final phase. or whatever
modern brook
Still too much tirion tbh
narrow fog
but that's okay, everyone has their own opinion
mighty valley
would've felt better than a shitty in game animation
chrome falcon
i mean it's not like tyrion just walked up and bitch slapped arthas, it was pretty clear that the light juiced him up hard
good triumphing over evil, all that stuff
modern brook
Then why am I here
Good triumphs over evil assuming evil drops better loot
Great story arc
narrow fog
were you one of the forum ragers in 2010? xD
chrome falcon
🤷♂️ back then the player character was pretty clearly not the focus of the story
narrow fog
🤷♂️ back then the player character was pretty clearly not the focus of the sto...
exactly
wotlk storyline is better than probably any of the other storylines in WoW
since it's been an MMO
chrome falcon
yeah i mean that's
narrow fog
collectively put together that is.
chrome falcon
not really true
narrow fog
why is it not true?
chrome falcon
there's a big bad guy in a castle go beat him up
mop is 100x better than any other story wow has had so far
narrow fog
mop is 100x better than any other story wow has had so far
mop is pretty good i agree
but saying better than wotlk is pushing it
mighty valley
mop was good and the overwhelming public perception was "pandas lol"
narrow fog
if you have played wc3, wotlk storyline feels much closer
chrome falcon
yes the only reason people like wotlk is arthas
and the only reason people like arthas is wc3
narrow fog
+garrosh did nothing wrong so i cannot put mop above wotlk
chrome falcon
mop is a good story on its own
made almost exclusively of characters introduced in wow
narrow fog
mop is a good story on its own
ahn'qiraj is a good story on its own
chrome falcon
and given development
narrow fog
mop is a good story on its own
last patch is debatable
they turned garrosh into a villain too quickly
mighty valley
i think a lot of the main beats of SL were pretty stupid and the jailer was a wasted opportunity but i end up looking like a shadowlands defender because i think the rage around it is really overblown. wow has always been pretty corny with some ups and downs. everyone should be less weird about it imo
chrome falcon
what are you talking about
narrow fog
- no one wanted him as a villain
chrome falcon
they turned garrosh into a villain over the course of literally 4 expansion
narrow fog
they turned garrosh into a villain over the course of literally 4 expansion
tbc - hero
wotlk - unhinged warrior hero
chrome falcon
what are you fucking talking about bro
narrow fog
cata - unhinged warchief
narrow fog
mop - villain
narrow fog
garrosh in tbc wasn't a hero
he wasn't a villain
chrome falcon
thank you for agreeing with me
narrow fog
no, i am not agreeing
chrome falcon
garrosh was an asshole in tbc
narrow fog
it was rushed, up until cata he did some good stuff
chrome falcon
four expansions is rushed to you???
narrow fog
no, the thing I am saying is
he was not evil till MoP
which even then, looked like a mistake to me.
chrome falcon
yes
he was not evil
and then he became evil
over the course of four expansions
narrow fog
he was an interesting character, should not have become evil so soon.
narrow fog
it doesn't matter, there was no need to kill him
storyline gained nothing from his death
chrome falcon
it gained the sickest cutscene in the game's history
narrow fog
well, apart from WoD xd
chrome falcon
second*
garrosh's death literally still had story ramifications until last year with thrall losing his powers
mighty valley
he made for a sick villain for a good raid, that's enough storyline gain
chrome falcon
i don't understand what you wanted them to do with garrosh
he started off as a petulant little shit in TBC
chrome falcon
so never have him turn evil?
lofty widget
sounds boring
chrome falcon
where's the fun in that?
garrosh is a good character because of his fall from hero to tyrant
narrow fog
so never have him turn evil?
yes.
chrome falcon
ok
sick sentinel
one baseline change i would make to warrior and other classes that buff is like, if you cast it, that buff would go off, and then, if you are a raid or party member or maybe just close by, you grant the buff to players within 30 yards, last for an hour
chrome falcon
so also arthas never picks up frostmourne
illidan never turns to the power of the legion
narrow fog
so also arthas never picks up frostmourne
lol, nice jumping of narrative
now invent words i never said
sick sentinel
like, someone dies, have to rebuff them with shout, probably, bad manners not to i think
narrow fog
let's just no argue.
chrome falcon
makes about as much sense as your point
narrow fog
seems like a better option
as i said, your opinion makes sense, but i do not agree with it.
chrome falcon
garrosh is a well liked and interesting character because he was a good villain, garrosh in TBC and wotlk was fucking annoying and no-one liked him
narrow fog
if you cannot handle people disagreeing with you, that is up to you.
lofty widget
didnt garrosh's episode cause horde+alliance to teamwork?
so if you really think about it he's the reason we have cross play
cinder storm
Garrosh was memorable, I used to play those expansions for like a week or two then forget about wow until next expansion
When he threw the guy from the bridge
Peak wow there
cinder storm
I was as casual as it gets then and I got goosebumps
narrow fog
his last bit in shadowlands was very good too imo
"i would do it again" kek
i would be really disappointed if he never came back 😦
lofty widget
he is never coming back
mighty valley
Yeah, was sad it didn't have more resources and it was quick and cheap, but it was on character for garrosh
lofty widget
taht SL cinematic was a "goodbye"
narrow fog
he is never coming back
urban portal
depends
lofty widget
he literally turned into a pile of dust
mighty valley
if wow goes long enough it'll become like comics, anyone can come back for whatever reason
narrow fog
bro, ok I get it, you disagree with me
chrome falcon
i mean i'm disagreeing with you about something else now
narrow fog
doesn't mean we need to start a war about warcraft lore
chrome falcon
i'm not 
narrow fog
😄
lofty widget
i think they know the playerbase likes him, so he could return
we also liked arthas, they didnt really bring him back
chrome falcon
but if you think garrosh is ever coming back after that you need to visit the hospital because the copium is about to put you into a coma
mighty valley
obviously the current intent is he's dead dead dead dead
but i wouldn't put it past any big corp to go back on that over a long enough timespan
like how long's it gonna be til the next iron man story
narrow fog
garrosh became so angry he unsubscribed from shadowlands
he's waiting in 11.0 - "Return of the Basedness"
would be funny if they brought Garithos back as well
many probably have no idea who he is
cinder storm
Ok so, they release wrath classic, wait like two years, they release a new raid where you go into the bridge between shadowlands and azeroth inhales copium you fight for arthas soul and you rupture time and space, lihuvium captures it and takes him back to dragonflight
That's how you bridge classic with live
narrow fog
Ok so, they release wrath classic, wait like two years, they release a new raid ...
Inception : WoW edition
chrome falcon
what i'm saying man
makes no sense for it to be this year
i'd put money on it still being 23
blazing condor
january 1st :^)
narrow fog
i'd put money on it still being 23
same. i think it will be delayed
chrome falcon
i'm trying to find the dates that expansion release dates were announced on but it's basically impossible
but i'm 99% sure
we've never had an expansion date announced less than 6 months before the release date
if it's going to be ready this year they should already have a date locked in and ready to announce
and what are they going to do, release it on like the 8th of december and release the raid on the 22nd? i dunno man
none of it makes a huge amount of sense
blazing condor
its weird as well cus like
we know next to nothing on the game
they want us to preorder a trailer basically
chrome falcon
a trailer and 2 talent trees
cobalt seal
i'm trying to find the dates that expansion release dates were announced on but ...
what is impossible?
chrome falcon
finding out the day that release dates were announced on
i'm not saying it's impossible for the expansion to be this year
i'm just trying to find the announcement dates to compare them
cobalt seal
if it's going to be ready this year they should already have a date locked in an...
lol no
you can't compare it
because it has way less systems
than previous expansions
so less game dev time needed
chrome falcon
that feels kinda like conjecture and regardless i'm not saying it's impossible for it to be ready in time
cobalt seal
you are pre ordering an alpha version
that's my prob
chrome falcon
i'm just saying there's no precedent for not announcing a release date within 6 months of release
cobalt seal
my money
chrome falcon
it's always like 8-10
cobalt seal
I do whatever I feel with it
narrow fog
tru
cobalt seal
it's always like 8-10
chrome falcon
a statement of fact is not copium sir
chrome falcon
pulling it way out of my ass because i can't find the actual info
cobalt seal
if it's a fact
chrome falcon
i would be happy to be corrected
cobalt seal
you most have source of it
chrome falcon
i quite clearly said earlier that i don't have a source
so fine not a statement of fact
you got me
cobalt seal
Facts = 0 source
chrome falcon
we're both coping
cobalt seal
OKAY
chrome falcon
go prove me wrong then
find me an example of an expansion release date announcement less than 6 months out from release
ok i guess i'm retarded
whatever
cobalt seal
why do I need to find prove?
cobalt seal
when you the one that claimed it's 8-10
that's not how it works
you claim something
you prove it
chrome falcon
wow you're so right i'm having so much fun in this conversation !
grave crane
no we warriors we make war
cobalt seal
