I wonder if the DF talent trees will have a way to talent into the Fury version of execute
#protection
median tulip
median tulip
Execute as a builder? I would take that shit
sleek current
It's a bit rough. In some ways it might've been nice if you could tie Covenant abilities to specs if you grinded them all out.
urban portal
yeah
chrome falcon
i mean depending on our rage gen
urban portal
theres definitely a world where its good
median tulip
Especially if we could also get access to Sudden Death
chrome falcon
right now fury execute would be absolute trash
it would probably have been better in 9.0
strong forum
If we get current level of rage gen then arms execute is massively superior
urban portal
it would def be better in 9.0 and 9.1
arms would love fury execute
at its current state
strong forum
Arms doesnt have good rage dumps
median tulip
Arms doesn't have good Rage generation, either
urban portal
they dont have good rage gen either, and execute is last on their prio list
so the CD doesnt matter for them
median tulip
lol, snap
sleek current
Arms should rage dump into ignore pain. It's perfect. Mega DPS.
urban portal
on average you cast execute every 3-4 seconds anyways
median tulip
Isn't IP like 60 Rage for them?
sleek current
Perfect Rage dump. You can't cap rage if you have none left.
12 second CD on Fury as well I believe.
median tulip
Yeah... Arms has issues
sleek current
Eww! That's 2 nearly 3 GCD's pressing nothing! 🤢
urban portal
if it generated rage all those "waiting" would be slams instead
which would be a dps up
sleek current
You get shield slam as Arms right?
urban portal
even discounting the fact that sudden death procs would generate rage
shield slam is all specs yeah
so is block
median tulip
You get shield slam as Arms right?
Yeah, but without a Shield that's pointless
sleek current
You might lose autoattack damage but, might be worth a Sword, Shield macro on the shield slam button.
Or can you not do that anymore?
urban portal
you lose 2 globals to swap to shield and slam
median tulip
Doubt it
urban portal
1 global to swap weapon another global to hit
sleek current
Really? It costs a global to swap weapons?!
urban portal
shield slam also doesnt generate rage
urban portal
you get rage gen when you are in prot spec
at level 10
fun fact, if you weapon swapping isnt a global, then swapping to a 2h to execute is a dps up on prot
sleek current
I proposed a change on the forums once that makes Arms a Weapon Master, using unique and interesting attacks similar to Ten Ten from Naruto, except less flying and ninijustu focusing on the weapons aspect of it all.
Arms used to be my go to DPS spec... But, it's felt awful since the end of MoP.
urban portal
idk how you would do that
because having like 3-4 weapons to just play arms woudl be awful
and weapon swapping is not fun
median tulip
They should make Arms a Focus class instead of a Rage class
agile pumice
turn arms into xymox trinket
urban portal
They should make Arms a Focus class instead of a Rage class
reasonable
sleek current
Oh they can't do that. They could just improve the rage gen. Haha.
median tulip
Part of the spec fantasy for Arms has always been a samurai-esque styling, Focus would actually make more sense than Rage IMO
hardy ridge
Replace arms by gladiator, dont @ me
sleek current
On the SIM what DPS did it give for a perfect scrim?
median tulip
Deadly Calm screams exactly the opposite, in fact
agile pumice
if fury can use 2 2 handers arms should use 1 4 hander
hardy ridge
Either that or 4 1 handers
sleek current
I think Arms would be great as a dual wielder, focusing on using unique weapons that are thematically built into the toolkit.
drifting fable
true arms should just get more arms
agile pumice
if arms gets to dual wield then fury has to get 3 weapons
oblique garnet
I couldve swore this was #protection why are you all talking about arms
toxic pewter
I have a feeling they will release 2 talent trees in alpahabetical order every friday until the alpha/beta starts. which will be sometime in july
median tulip
Titan's Grip was a mistake. I said that when they announced it at the end of TBC.
sleek current
Arms is the new Prot
hardy ridge
I love titans grip wdym
sleek current
Prot needs Titan's Grip except it's Vanguard's Grip and allows us to dual wield two Iron Walls.
median tulip
I couldve swore this was <#148897941883584512> why are you all talking about arm...
We're talking generally about the future of Warrior going into DF/10.0, and obviously Arms is currently the unloved red-headed stepchild of Warrior specs
agile pumice
can you dual wield fishing rods?
oblique garnet
We're talking generally about the future of Warrior going into DF/10.0, and obvi...
Ye i dont really mind as long as the questions regarding #protection also get answered feel free to talk about anything that doesnt break discord ToS
hardy ridge
Prot should wield 2 shield and a third as a cloak
urban portal
ye nothing else is happening here anyways
all we do here is take baits from trolls
and tell people about why kyrian is bad
sleek current
Prot should wield 2 shield and a third as a cloak
Yes. Yes... Muhahaha.
drifting fable
we havent had the daily codex question tbh
toxic pewter
I always preferred arms over fury myself
mighty valley
is codex good or is it bad
toxic pewter
lol
median tulip
We need a "!codex" bot command like how the shaman discord has "!cache"
hardy ridge
In what content
urban portal
true
deep steppe
is codex good or is it bad
bad
urban portal
we need commands
toxic pewter
oh wow, 18 now use codex vs yesterday 27...
hardy ridge
I saw some pwarr use it on mythic LOD
toxic pewter
THE NUMBERS ARE DROPPING
sleek current
I've always preferred Arms but, it's absolute poop, so I haven't touched it since MoP. Every expansion I start as Arms for questing and it's always still dogger so, I switch back to Fury until I can kill in a timely manner in Prot again.
oblique garnet
Codex bad
mighty valley
i run prot warrior in exclusively pvp brawls and pet battles. like to run heavy repercussions. big mastery stacker. is codex good
median tulip
I just quest as Prot. It's just as fast to kill 10 things, you just kill them all at the same time
toxic pewter
Ya questing as prot is pretty solid tbh
chrome falcon
codex bad is already pinned but they had to use a bunch of words
drifting fable
yea we dont need the other one
strong forum
It sums it up pretty nicely
chrome falcon
instead of just 2 words
ionic fern
Legit the first pin.
median tulip
Honestly might aswell just pin that thoughts <@192743144276623360> <@23835728399...
Your mistake is expecting people to read the Pins
mighty valley
i don't believe my troll question set off the daily discourse
drifting fable
toxic pewter
The pin isnt even that many words
chrome falcon
but then we'll get like 20 questions about why codex is bad
toxic pewter
the first part of the pin is straight to the point
median tulip
But when its just oneliner like that
Then we get people asking "why is codex bad?"
toxic pewter
Codex Of The First Technique is not a good trinket for Protection Warrior
that pretty much sums it up
strong forum
Top pushers don't even read the trinket
sleek current
I just quest as Prot. It's just as fast to kill 10 things, you just kill them al...
So do I but, at the beginning of the expansion. It's always far too slow and there are rarely deathballs available.
mighty valley
What if we had another top pin that said "You are bad"
oblique garnet
What if we had another top pin that said "You are bad"
I think me just randomly coming in and saying Git Gud covers that
drifting fable
toxic mod 
median tulip
"WElcome to the most difficult spec in the game. Either get good, or get out."
oblique garnet
toxic mod <:Pepexecute:595606525272391710>
Im like the nicest mod here
Im just honest
median tulip
I have a feeling they will release 2 talent trees in alpahabetical order every f...
If that were true Demon Hunter would have been released ahead of Druid
agile pumice
dk first because alphabet and druid second because druid privilege
toxic pewter
yah but druid was already sort of sneak peaked so that came out
but going forward it will be alphabetical
mighty valley
it's just gonna be basically random based on whichever one has had the most work done on it so far
agile pumice
warrior last 
ocean yoke
twilight dev as a talent do it cowards
sweet summit
mighty valley
as funny as that would be i don't need a giant purple laser doing most of my damage for the next several years
median tulip
twilight dev as a talent do it cowards
They'll give that the DH if anyone
toxic pewter
Next will be DH and hunter
on Friday
July 12th the Dragonflight alpha releases. That is a Tuesday
drifting fable
<:dandy:809705852658253844>
nice pfp. kafu slaps
sweet summit
toxic pewter
What furry race is best for prot warr:
worgen
draenei
lightforged draenei
tauren
highmountain tauren
vulpera
pandaran
toxic pewter
they do look awesome
drifting fable
worgen because im worgen and they rock
narrow fog
What furry race is best for prot warr:
worgen
draenei
lightforged draenei
tauren...
draenei for alliance, tauren for horde, out of those
toxic pewter
is draenei actually pretty solid
narrow fog
the OG races
chrome falcon
this is a good opinion
dark lark
Oh God @strong forum has eaten @ionic fern and is wearing his face
toxic pewter
is the 102% crit noticeable in overall dmg that dwarves/tauren have
narrow fog
human legit has 2% for all secondary stats
mighty valley
i really wish someone could invent maths
narrow fog
mad bruv
strong forum
Race has extremely influence over dps
strong forum
human legit has 2% for all secondary stats
+2% gain, not additive
So instead of 100 haste, you get 102 haste
narrow fog
+2% gain, not additive
yes
potent anvil
Looks > sims
strong forum
Instead of 1000 haste you get 1020 haste
narrow fog
yes that is how % usually works xD
toxic pewter
is Looks the best racial of all? Do 'better looking' characters get ahead in the world of warcraft?
narrow fog
is Looks the best racial of all? Do 'better looking' characters get ahead in the...
yes
chrome falcon
you probably get more out of the game by playing a race you personally like
strong forum
Looks is the only reasonable thing to go for in a race in wow
toxic pewter
I think we should do some research on that
strong forum
Anything else is just some nice to haves
drifting fable
unless you like one of the fringe benefits like mailbox or smth
toxic pewter
Like how certain looking races perform vs other races
drifting fable
ya
narrow fog
human pwarr and roleplay as roman centurion
toxic pewter
pure looks
narrow fog
bis
sweet summit
how do you math out subjective opinions
toxic pewter
You cant
mighty valley
the math is, if my character looked awful, i would log in 100% less
so that's a 100% dps loss
drifting fable
lmao
sweet summit
real
toxic pewter
What percent of people do you think main a race they dont actually like how it looks though
mighty valley
0.001% is my guess
potent anvil
The ones that like to min/max, so whatever that population is.
sweet summit
a lot
strong forum
the math is, if my character looked awful, i would log in 100% less
Same
narrow fog
people play classes they don't like, not to mention races
toxic pewter
Its interesting... the gray area of wow has a lot of area to research
strong forum
If I find my character ugly I don't enjoy what I'm doing
drifting fable
does it tho
mighty valley
the population who pushes endgame is already small in comparison to total pop
toxic pewter
ya it def does
potent anvil
Female dwarf 
toxic pewter
Right but how many play dwarf and literally dislike looking at them
narrow fog
Everyone knows the best race is Dwarf.
male dwarf pretty good
mighty valley
a lot of people probably make a decision based on stats but still don't mind their character
toxic pewter
True
it is definitely a spectrum
I have had numerous people say 'looks is the best racial'
mighty valley
i just don't think there's many people out there being like "my character looks rancid. just one of god's mistakes. i hate putting my eyes on it. still, worth the 1% crit"
toxic pewter
makes me wonder how deep that goes
sweet summit
because
races are basically
irrelevant for dps/hps outside of s few niche cases where you know if you know
median tulip
Female Orc is the best model for transmogs
narrow fog
irrelevant for dps/hps outside of s few niche cases where you know if you know
goblins on KJ?
xD
sweet summit
long time ago
median tulip
Either regular or Mag'har, doesn't matter
narrow fog
green orc better
toxic pewter
I wonder how many players pick based on the possible jump animation (flip, twirl, backflip)
strong forum
It was quite a thing back in the day
potent anvil
So basically, looks > sims
strong forum
100%
sick sentinel
orc only good for lock and bm hunter
dawn canyon
I wonder how many players pick based on the possible jump animation (flip, twirl...
Big factor ngl
Flips > big dam
toxic pewter
Ya like I would prob play something other than my vulpera if she didnt do a cute flip
queen bobcat
If I have let's say 90 rage and Shield Slam is ready. Should I use shield slam and cap rage, so I don't waste SS CDR, or should I use Execute / Revenge to dump rage first and miss out on more SS throughout the fight? Or third option, should I dump with ignore pain off GCD and instantly SS?
jagged pier
u press IP
chrome falcon
If I have let's say 90 rage and Shield Slam is ready. Should I use shield slam a...
rule 1 of this class is never waste rage
rule 2 is press shield slam every time it's up
so yeah just hit a few IPs, dump the rage
which reduces CD on avatar and gets you closer to outburst
spend rage to get rage
IP's purpose is to just stop you ever capping rage
echo egret
So I checked carefully earlier, indeed it's "only cast when in melee range", but let's say "melee range with a rather long arm" - come relatively close and they'll cast it.
chrome falcon
yeah that sounds about right
urban portal
If there’s an off gcd rage dump that did 1 damage
You bet your ass we’ll press it over ip
lavish oracle
Hm 278 weapon or 278 shield
drifting fable
@lavish oracle
lavish oracle
but my overall :c
drifting fable
what are your current wep and shield?
lavish oracle
Both 272
drifting fable
so wait what are you concerned about? the shield would be the better thing to get stats on
drifting fable
pretty sure shield and wep scale the same with str, someone can correct me if im wrong
as in theyll have the same strength at 278
lavish oracle
Our AP scales with weapon damage
the weapon's like 1% more damage, not that big a deal
hardy ridge
SHIELD BRUV
drifting fable
block thi
lavish oracle
yeah, I already grabbed it but my dps brain is leaking
drifting fable
tho*
hardy ridge
yeah, I already grabbed it but my dps brain is leaking
Its ok just play offensive trinkets in raid
toxic pewter
holy crap unlocking kul tiran humans gonna take forever
stormsong alone have to do over 100 quests
drifting fable
yea i was super glad to have flying for that lol
vernal vale
They should make Arms a Focus class instead of a Rage class
Honestly this would make it better.
chilly brook
Eh
The only thing that would do
Is uncouple arms from windfury
I really don’t think it would be beneficial
chilly brook
Especially since arms and prot are kinda the last auto attack specs
An aspect I actually like a lot
chilly brook
Also arms owns it doesn't need to focus on anything but owning
Nah
It needs to focus its rage
I’ll go neck myself for that one
urban portal
so true
modern brook
What defines an auto attack spec
urban portal
specs where if your swing timer is slow you get to be afk
modern brook
Cause like rogue is a class frost dk is real. Demons bite is playable I'm o sure
urban portal
i find prot to be less of an auto class than rogue or feral
chilly brook
What defines an auto attack spec
Your central resource is tied to auto attack at the foundation?
Granted prot a lot less unless you spec devastater
chilly brook
Or whatever it is
urban portal
i get what you mean
modern brook
Isn't like rage the only resource tied to aa?
urban portal
you have a lot of procs from your autos
chilly brook
Rage is your resource
urban portal
outlaw gains energy from autoing
chilly brook
Outlaw sure
urban portal
in fact outlaw does like 30% of their damage from autos
chilly brook
But the main resource for a rogue is combo points
urban portal
+resource gen
chilly brook
Not energy
modern brook
Sub gains resource from aa
modern brook
Assa gains resource from aa in technicality
urban portal
both are resources
chilly brook
Let me actually type this up
urban portal
if your point is, if you macro /cancelattack onto every button, which spec loses the most
modern brook
I don't care that much tbh
urban portal
it would be arms
modern brook
My point is just that lots of melee specs rely on aas still for samage
chilly brook
Energy is only a secondary resource, all it is is a limiter on how much of the resource you spend to use your hard hitting abilities can be gained in a period of time
In the case of sub autos are not your only way to gain combo points but it is a secondary gain
urban portal
but resource is also just a function of damage, and outlaw does absurd damage with their autos
chilly brook
In the case of outlaw it’s just a proc that can increase your energy to make combo points
modern brook
I think way more about my swing timer on sub than on prot
chilly brook
but resource is also just a function of damage, and outlaw does absurd damage wi...
Auto attack damage is irrelevant
In the case of arms
You literally have auto attack and charge
You are an auto attack spec
That’s not how sub or any rogue/focus spec works
It is however how prot and arms work
Prot has shield slam but that interacts with your autos
modern brook
This is a 
take tbh
urban portal
it is
modern brook
I think you're lost in the sauce ngl
chilly brook
Most specs in the game the autos have become something secondary
Prot is close
Arms isn’t
Arms is by far the auto attack spec
Old ret used to be one too
But they nuked that system of play a long time ago
chilly brook
The actual amount of damage the autos do is irrelevant to the conversation imho
chilly brook
then havoc counts too
Sure
urban portal
so yeah my original point was right, if you macro /stop attack to every spec which one loses the most
those would be auto attack specs
and rogues wouldnt lose nearly as much as arms
arms would be completely unplayalbe
chilly brook
Yes
But that wasn’t something I disagreed with
Some specs still have autos that influence a resource of theirs and ultimately increases the generation of their actual spending resource
Rogues for example, are a builder spender, but their building is limited by energy. In outlaws case their mastery lets their autos sometimes give them some more energy. But that’s in addition to their base regen rate. In something like arms case, autos ARE their limiting factor and not a secondary increase to their initial way to make their resource
chrome falcon
basically arms is dirt prot is pog and fury is trying its little heart out
chilly brook
Does that make more sense now? @urban portal
urban portal
i get what u mean yeah, but i dont find auto attacking specs to be very engaging
except prot this tier because we have so much stats
minor helm
basically arms is dirt prot is pog and fury is trying its little heart out
No ur dirt eat butt
chilly brook
But they have consistently removed more and more of that playstyle
I for one miss the old paladin days where autos did different things based on seals
TLDR WoW has enough classes and specs that we don’t need to turn everything into a rogue/hunter/fury warrior
paper mirage
robust rover
Let’s go. Easy 278 shield pick this week.
potent anvil
Tried Emeni in a key, kinda like the movespeed ngl
strong forum
i guess it does make charge weaving a a decent bit easier
toxic pewter
Does the speed stack with banner speed
mighty valley
our AAs are so fast i don't try very hard to fit charge inbetween them
but i would on arms
but playing arms? no thank you
strong forum
well its more for reprisal
balmy canyon
Does the execute/condem buff make ventyr comparable to necro in raid or is necro still top dog?
mighty valley
no
mighty valley
if anything necro might've gotten more from the buff
potent anvil
i guess it does make charge weaving a a decent bit easier
Not just that, I like to chain pull based on my CDs. With banner and like all the movespeed buffs I have around 180% 
strong forum
potent anvil
Oh I forgot about heroic leap talent.
strong forum
literally my default pick
potent anvil
Did a halls pug and healer was no where in sight when I already moved to the next pack
Poor priest legs
strong forum
Can't imagine playing a wheelchair class
onyx matrix
Did a halls pug and healer was no where in sight when I already moved to the nex...
Riperino
potent anvil
Almost +3'd a 17 halls. 1:30 off. Was going at the speed of light
drifting fable
having your only movement speed buff on a talent is god awful
strong forum
Almost +3'd a 17 halls. 1:30 off. Was going at the speed of light
Im in dps prison alot, cuz all my friends are tanks
drifting fable
and its the dumb feathers
strong forum
Dpsing is so boring in keys, idk how people do it
strong forum
<@192743144276623360> got a fancy new color
sick sentinel
its that little car you post all the time, tuk-tuk
strong forum
urban portal
dps is actually boring ye
some other discord saying that dungs not being balanced around constant kicks is a good thing
sick sentinel
there is only 12 3k prot warriors on my server, supposedly the biggest one on all of us for biggest faction, horde
Me getting KSM, puts me in 93rd for spec
sick sentinel
banned or something?
modern brook
Yeah mwahi got banned for drugs I heard
sick sentinel
i didn't catch it...
i'm still bad BTW, still shit dps and stand in the obvious everything
modern brook
Doesn't matter u have the mount
ocean yoke
its that little car you post all the time, tuk-tuk
damn didnt expect a just cause 2 post here, love that game
sick sentinel
Now you're gunna be sorry!
urban portal
damn i got baited
grave crane
there is only 12 3k prot warriors on my server, supposedly the biggest one on a...
At 2757 on my server had me around 20th which is wild and only 10 3k
night oracle
so how's the prot playstyle so far
does it require u to spam rage like crazy
just to keep it rolling?
agile sandal
should i use 272 haste-versa gloves or 278 tier gloves (crit-mastery)? i am already 4-set without gloves.
agile sandal
okay. so after ilvl, what haste are the top warriors at now? 30? mid 30s?
chrome falcon
they're at whatever their best ilvl gives them bu t
yeah like mid 30s
you wanna stop at 40
chrome falcon
yep
chrome falcon
vers 
agile sandal
vers <:wokege:878564603137761342>
hehe whats with verse?
chrome falcon
super overrated stat
it's not useless but
some people think you need a certain amount because we're weak to magic dmg or something
agile sandal
haste after diminishing returns still better than vers?
well haste means more ignore pain too 🙂
modern brook
Your secondaries are all roughly equal in a generic sense after haste
chrome falcon
everything is better than haste after HR
but you're gonna struggle getting 40 haste
it's basically str>>>haste>everything else
agile sandal
but you're gonna struggle getting 40 haste
we talk unbuffed when we discuss these right?
chrome falcon
yep
mighty valley
anything that adds haste rating is affected by diminishing returns
but flat stuff (into the fray, bloodlust) isn't
dreamy wedge
So is Show of Force so weak I should be taking Ashen instead of it even in M+?
potent anvil
Yes.
If you want to play 2 potency and not want to use execute then it'll be armor fragment and covenant conduit.
dreamy wedge
I've mostly been Marileth lately with 3 pot. so it was between those two
potent anvil
Yeah, then you just run ashen. If you never use execute, then you can use show of force.
dreamy wedge
Gotcha, I usually try to be pretty aggressive with execute
dreamy wedge
It crits for like 20k what am I gonna do, revenge on single target instead? XD
chrome falcon
get some gear and press it during banner+avatar+booming voice
and it crits for 40k
dreamy wedge
One of these days; I never get them to crit during CDs it's annoying
median tulip
same
dreamy wedge
Now that I swapped to it maybe that'll change; that like 43% bonus crit tho
median tulip
I hit Ingra in Mists for just under 200k once
I did pop a Strength pot for that though xD
tired lily
Got a question about mythic artifcer, normally I tank mythic with my paladin and I can spell ward to run through a set of the circle to have an optimal grip for the raid. As a warrior, does leap or spell reflect work to get through the double line?
chrome falcon
No
You can search: sense mythic artificer for a good demonstration on how to do that as prot warrior
It’s a tight timing but not too bad after you fuck it up once or twice
You just have to do the mechanic the “intended” way
tired lily
Thanks for the response!
vernal vale
got a 278 ticking sack from vault
sick sentinel
got a 278 ticking sack from vault
i want you to burn this image into your brain, look at the mob in the back in a new tab 🙂
sick sentinel
he's now looking at me because the debuff from that trinket applied to this mob, my target, pulling them in whatever that key was, we lived that pull
and hes about to come attack me
those bombs will go on whatever you target, regardless of if you are in combat with it or not it seems
vernal vale
it also means more damage when i do get a chance to raid tank again
just have to make myself play better for it facepulling shit
sick sentinel
i tried out 262 viscera as arms for LFR, it did 2.5-3% dps most pulls and highest was 5.6% on some ZM trash
round cliff
does prot have enough self healing to solo world stuff like prot pally does
think early expac maw rares and stuff like that
vernal vale
does prot have enough self healing to solo world stuff like prot pally does
uh, prot warrior can easilly do anything in the maw
sick sentinel
does prot have enough self healing to solo world stuff like prot pally does
prot warrior can easily solo many group quests and up to mini raid world bosses
you can kill a rare with 1m, probably hurt and take a while solo, but u can do it
round cliff
how do u recover from the slow ticks of dmg? it's not like they do 0
vernal vale
how do u recover from the slow ticks of dmg? it's not like they do 0
indomitable and good play
gilded wing
@round cliff prot warrior can solo rares in ZM
sick sentinel
you just have so many optinos to reduce or DR or temporary buff hp that you never die to world quest stuff
only die when you fall off a cliff with no ground
round cliff
im trying to pick a tank to invest time into and i like em all so it's hard to pick
narrowed it down to prot or brewmaster
vernal vale
im trying to pick a tank to invest time into and i like em all so it's hard to p...
prot warrior is extremely rewarding to play well and has an excellent gameplay cycle right now
round cliff
that's guardian
sick sentinel
maybe thats why i need
round cliff
prot warrior would be nice because i already main fury so i wouldn't need multiple toons
that's my main driving force rn tbh
vernal vale
learn prot
if you like fury youll likely like the play style of prot warrior
its fast and rewarding to play well
vernal vale
invest in maxing necrolord now to maximize
round cliff
necrolord? damn ok
vernal vale
banner with tier buff is 100% uptime on bosses and probably 75% or more in dungeons
round cliff
oh wow
round cliff
also i forgot to turn off fury loot spec and looted a onehander in raid
that's my other motivation to play prot
vernal vale
lol
nothing wrong with forgetting to change spec
ive done it and gotten great dps trinkets
round cliff
marileth best soulbind?
vernal vale
yeah
round cliff
no cov campaign needed woo
vernal vale
hiermer is kind of nieche
vernal vale
no cov campaign needed woo
with marileth you get kevin and that is huge for your survival and damage
round cliff
thanks, kevin
waxen orbit
with marileth you get kevin and that is huge for your survival and damage
Uh
Def not
But we run Marileth anyways
vernal vale
Def not
doesnt the tooltip say it does damage and healing
i honestly havent read it in forever
id check now but im raiding so that means im fury and kyrian
sick sentinel
opressor pvp talent wiould be great in pve make us shine
toxic pewter
I sort of want to run bonesmith more, I like the tree more personally
but everyone says plaguedeviser better
west glade
banner with tier buff is 100% uptime on bosses and probably 75% or more in dunge...
New prot warrior, what is it about the tier set that helps with banner uptime?
pallid quiver
Outburst procs on SS give 200% more rage, so it goes from 15 rage to 45 rage,
And every 10 rage, when spent without being wasted, can be seen as 0.5 seconds of banner time due to Unity
And spending that rage will cause the next outburst to come sooner, meaning more rage generated from outburst, which just cycles into itself
The more rage you spend, the more banner time and the more rage you have
west glade
Ok thank you, that was what I though but was wondering if I was missing something, I cannot seem to keep banner up past 1m
vernal vale
New prot warrior, what is it about the tier set that helps with banner uptime?
outburst gives you rage that you spend
west glade
But sounds like it's just missplay
vernal vale
rage spent extends banner with unity legendary
vernal vale
But sounds like it's just missplay
proper play will increase your banner time
more often than not its because you are not hitting enough buttons
waxen orbit
banner with tier buff is 100% uptime on bosses and probably 75% or more in dunge...
Try 90-100%
In dungeons
drifting fable
But sounds like it's just missplay
if you post a log we can point out stuff
round cliff
if im about to hit 8 stacks of seeing red, i SHOULDNT press shield slam
so that its available to use asap
or do i press it anyways and just be sure not to overcap rage/press stomp in the meantime
west glade
if you post a log we can point out stuff
I will see if I have any for recent keys this afternoon. Thank you for the offer
drifting fable
IMO id want to SS on CD but i guess itd depend how close I am to outburst
if you can dump real quick for it go for it but id try for a revenge myself
lilac vapor
Hi, not sure if this has been asked yet, Im wondering if the Codex of the first technique is still any good for Prot warriors after its undocumented nerf. thanks
lilac vapor
thanks sorry i have covid atm didnt even think to check the pins 😛 thats good to hear
drifting fable
no worries. better off using an offensive trinket in most cases
round cliff
smth i never fully understood is shield block uptime
am i supposed to be charging/intervening mid combat to pad uptime when the regular charges arent enough
drifting fable
you should be charging/intervening as much as you can
intervene on CD at least
SB caps at 18 seconds so you wont have to worry about that
ocean yoke
even without reprisal you want to charge if feasible, its good rage
cinder nova
Yeah, reprisal is just amping rage generation, that's why it's so huge, but the shield block uptime is also big.
It makes chargeweaving so good that not doing it is basically throwing.
modern zephyr
If you're only taking melee damage but have extra rage with SB up, you don't have to use IP unless there's also non-melee damage right?
drifting fable
yup you should always prioritize SB in melee
ah sorry misread. IP is typically only used to prevent ragecapping in those situations
better off using the rage on revenge
cerulean wyvern
Any of you guys noticing the 2nd tank in raid pulling agro from you?
mighty valley
my bdk cotank is higher ilvl than me and it could happen when i was first tank, before the first taunt
but now she pulls first and it hasn't been a problem
cerulean wyvern
Was reading the tank threat changes for 9.2.5 and I’m not sure if I’m reading it correctly. But makes it seem as if higher dps tanks generate more threat. Not sure if that’s an accurate statement.
mighty valley
i mean it's the same in relative terms
cerulean wyvern
It’s not because if they increased threat by 18% then the gap widens
mighty valley
well, yeah, but the threshold for taking aggro is a percentage too, not a flat number
cerulean wyvern
Never understood the same % buff across multiple classes when the base is not even the same.
mighty valley
it just needs to be big enough to outpace the dps, it doesn't change the balance across tanks at all from the previous patch
what's your cotank?
cerulean wyvern
Pally and warrior
mighty valley
our raid damage is absolutely fine
urban portal
Only ashen can possibly pull off of you
mighty valley
let the pally pull first, first taunt will equalize, then all should be fine
urban portal
^
cerulean wyvern
Was weird. Could’ve been a combination of things including misdirect
mighty valley
yeah, we had good burst when kyrian was the standard, but we're not giga bursty on pull now, not compared to ashen
urban portal
10% your guy playing venthyr
hardy ridge
Idk i pull off my blood bdk on pull like 2-3 times sometimes
urban portal
Blood dk is balls at Aggro
hardy ridge
Ye for sure
urban portal
Has to be someone misdirecting
The threat changes did not change anything relative from tanks
sleek current
All I can say about 9.2.5 regarding Threat is that I am not losing aggro as often to Hunters but, it still happens occasionally.
urban portal
If he’s ripping this patch he would rip pre 9.2.5
hardy ridge
^
urban portal
All I can say about 9.2.5 regarding Threat is that I am not losing aggro as ofte...
Are they not misdirecting or what
mighty valley
do you have logs? you can check for casts
urban portal
5 seconds of all their aggro+yours means you should never get ripped off
hardy ridge
I use to play with a tank who would taunt and then brag he pulled off me
mighty valley
...
hardy ridge
I still do kekw
cerulean wyvern
What’s weird about the threat changes is that it’s not equal across all tanks.
sleek current
Are they not misdirecting or what
Probably, I regularly play with him. He can be a spud in the mud sometimes.
hardy ridge
But he doesnt do that abymore
mighty valley
the threat changes are functionally equal
hardy ridge
Idk man avatar empowered ss is nutty aggro
urban portal
Do you understand how math works
cerulean wyvern
Maybe it’s the misdirects. Had 4 hunters and it was 2:2
urban portal
The relative change is the same
cerulean wyvern
But threat is generated based off dps.
hardy ridge
Do you have logs
mighty valley
if they wanted to rebalance threat exactly, they would rebalance damage
chilly brook
In theory sure
cerulean wyvern
If 1 tank is doing more dps than the other and you increase the threat generation %, the gap will widen right?
urban portal
The gap would not widen
chilly brook
Like the gap wouldn’t just get huge
chilly brook
There doesn’t need to be a huge explanation here
hardy ridge
The gap is bigger but the % gap is the same you are just both generating more aggro
chilly brook
^
hardy ridge
It doesnt change anything
cerulean wyvern
You’re generating more agro, but they’re generating even more.
frigid plume
the gap is only bigger in terms of the raw number, the percentile gap stays the same
chilly brook
Again it’s really not a problem
frigid plume
and pull aggro is a percentile so it doesn't matter
mighty valley
taunt equalizes, and the threshold to pull threat is a percentage of current target's threat, so the numerical gap going up doesn't matter because the percentage gap is unchanged
chilly brook
I thought it was 110
urban portal
Let’s say you are generating 100 points of threat, he’s generating 120 points
Let’s just pretend it’s 130
sleek current
Flat increase of 18% equals nothing changed for tanks. If they were struggling with aggro before they would be struggling the same way now except they don't need to compete with DPS anymore. The gap is unchanged. In layman terms.
frigid plume
it's 110% in melee range and 130% at range
urban portal
For sake of argument
chilly brook
Huh didn’t know there was a separate value for range
urban portal
With this 18% buff, we generate 118, he’s generating 120*1.18=141.6
He’s still only 20% ahead of you
Before and after
Sure the absolute value widened from 20 to 23.6
But the percentages stayed equal
And that’s all that matters
cerulean wyvern
Ok, so 100 threat x 18%. Now doing 118 threat. Versus the 120 x 118% = 141.6. Different increases from 20 points to 23.6
chilly brook
Literally doesn’t matter
mighty valley
yes... but the threshold to pull aggro is what matters
cerulean wyvern
Gotcha.
urban portal
But do you notice the percentages is the same
He’s still only generating 20% more threat than you
hardy ridge
Aggro is calculated in %, ur multiplying both aggros by a constant so the percentages stay the same
mighty valley
anyway the gaps between tank overall dps is not that big, so the source of aggro rips is usually unusual burst windows
or accidental misdirects
urban portal
anyway the gaps between tank overall dps is not that big, so the source of aggro...
In the case of pally it’s the insane ashen healing
mighty valley
or your cotank is taunting by accident and not owning up to it
chilly brook
All you need to know about how to not lose aggro is you need to press your buttons
urban portal
Though I still don’t know if the other guy is venthyr
mighty valley
yeah ashen is the biggest unusual burst window
chilly brook
You wouldn’t rip if it’s just the dps
You would absolutely
urban portal
The healing is like 12k hps in 9.1
chilly brook
Just like prot would rip in Antorus during reck
urban portal
I looked at logs back in 9.1
chilly brook
It’s the dps spike
urban portal
The #1 warrior on pull did like 16k dps during lust
#1 prot pal only did like 18/19k
Or something
Been a while
chilly brook
2-3k dps is a huge difference in terms of threat
urban portal
It’s the 10k hps that makes it instantly rip
mighty valley
what's the heal threat multiplier these days
urban portal
Who knows
mighty valley
it's been so long since it mattered at all
urban portal
Threat is such an archaic mechanic
I wonder if the riot mmo will have healer threat
mighty valley
yeah they keep patching the holes in it as a system to make it not matter 99.9% of the time until it suddenly does and it's annoying
chilly brook
It’s the 10k hps that makes it instantly rip
And if that was the case I wouldn’t have been instantly ripping on crit condemns back on denathrius
mighty valley
in ffxiv if tanks do literally anything at all they'll have solid aggro locked til the end of time
urban portal
Imagine if brew/vdh can have perma threat
chilly brook
Incentivizes good play
urban portal
And they just run circles around the mobs
chilly brook
Imagine if brew/vdh can have perma threat
Brew used to Lmfaooooo
Back before legion
mighty valley
eh, i kind of think outputting damage is enough of an incentive but i dunno
chilly brook
Dizzying keg
chilly brook
They could
urban portal
I thought kiting is a shadowlands thing
chilly brook
Used to speed through leveling dungeons without getting hit
Since it was a slow and generated huge threat and had dummy range
hardy ridge
Has any1 here tanked mythic rygelon? Im looking forward to it
Raid doesnt feel like it does much dmg so far, maybe pwarr just op
chilly brook
I thought kiting is a shadowlands thing
Kiting has been around since forever, it existed a lot in legion
urban portal
Like I thought it became mandatory
chilly brook
But uhh yea if they kept this spell in the game lmao
urban portal
Has any1 here tanked mythic rygelon? Im looking forward to it
Apparently it’s hard enough for ppl to use codex
So yeah
chilly brook
Like I thought it became mandatory
In fairness it was with some of the pulls people did in legion
urban portal
Like you pulled a 40 pack and just had to book it?
mighty valley
afaik kiting was big in v high keys in a lot of BFA until corruptions made tanks busted
frigid plume
Has any1 here tanked mythic rygelon? Im looking forward to it
we're on it currently, the rot damage is pretty cringe, the auto attack nerfs are pretty big though
hardy ridge
Apparently it’s hard enough for ppl to use codex
Ye got one ready.. but it has a absorb cap now so idk if its still good at all
chilly brook
Like you pulled a 40 pack and just had to book it?
Not really book it, blood was meta
They’d just kinda dnd
mighty valley
and yeah, in legion with the enormous trash rooms with no mechanics like EoA crabs, you could just pull enormous and go walkies
chilly brook
and yeah, in legion with the enormous trash rooms with no mechanics like EoA cra...
It also kept mobs from doing mechanics
hardy ridge
we're on it currently, the rot damage is pretty cringe, the auto attack nerfs ar...
Nice man, best of luck dude. What trinkets are you running
frigid plume
sack and phial
undone verge
sack and phial
Is sack really that good with the mast? Wouldn’t a haste trunk like soleh be better. But I’m no mythic raider so take my opinion with some salt
undone verge
I guess, I just thought a strength trink or a haste trunk might be better. Might not be as much dmg but it’s defense as well as offense
mighty valley
raw stat trinkets are usually better aoe, damage proc trinkets better st
not always but
rule of thumb
frigid plume
Is sack really that good with the mast? Wouldn’t a haste trunk like soleh be bet...
sack should beat it on one target, i'm already at haste cap easily anyway
mighty valley
also proc trinkets just vary more based on design, like wildly
hardy ridge
I guess, I just thought a strength trink or a haste trunk might be better. Might...
Yes str and haste would be better defensively or on aoe
sack is just for dmg
urban portal
Sack is worse than phial in almost every way
Just saying
It’s worse in st and aoe
hardy ridge
Thats why you have 2 trinkets
urban portal
True
urban portal
Though in m+ I prefer to just run a scale
undone verge
Scale feels nice until like 21 forts when it just dissolves
Then I just prefer to run a haste trinket
hardy ridge
Thats fair
round cliff
is it just me or is the tier set statted kinda mid to bad for prot
mighty valley
you mean the stats on the pieces?
idk our stats are close enough that it's fine
if tier had all haste we'd genuinely be getting into diminishing returns
round cliff
just me then ig
how do i generate enough rage for 100% banner uptime? i could only manage 50% on a dummy but idk how much being hit influences rage gen
echo egret
hmmm is this shield better than mine ? it's the only item I might take, else it's a socket
round cliff
you haven't learned the appearance, that's the biggest upgrade of all
echo egret
I have 40% unbuffed haste
echo egret
you haven't learned the appearance, that's the biggest upgrade of all
Shhh that's exactly what I'm thinking 🙂
jagged pier
how do i generate enough rage for 100% banner uptime? i could only manage 50% on...
u arent playing correct most likely
round cliff
entirely likely
round cliff
ill practice more and provide logs if i still need help with it
is 100% training dummy uptime possible tho
jagged pier
yes
strong forum
Trying to get banner to last over 2min on dummy is amazing practice
Cuz you can't get it to that duration with poor play
median tulip
An Entire Season of No Shield in the Vault, and today... 2 of them!
jagged pier
🖕
ionic fern
median tulip
Barricade has Haste so ofc that's the one I'm taking
strong forum
You don't wanna protect your package?
jagged pier
Hehe
round cliff
im not entirely sure how im supposed to optimize the tier set
wowhead says line up rage spending with shield bash cooldown, but sometimes u build so much rage so quickly u cant just sit on it
strong forum
Spend it with ignore pain
Just pump that rage into ignore pain and then use SS again
round cliff
dumping it into ignore pain will get u ur charge quicker tho which you dont want if shield bash was just used right
strong forum
I mean you can then fill with revenges until SS is ready again
round cliff
its shield slam ur right
strong forum
The only time to overlap outburst procs is when you press avatar and outburst lined up to soon to be lined up
round cliff
i just woke up xd
strong forum
That's why you track the buff with the 1 of the 2 pinned weakauras, so you can spend it effectively
round cliff
ye i have a buff tracker
i just run into situations where i have the buff, but ss is on cooldown for a few more seconds so im not allowed to press stomp
leaving stomp off cd feels like a huge waste
mighty valley
so
- TC doesn't do THAT much so don't fret it too hard
but 2) it's just something you get better at over time, pre-planning around 5-6 stacks to make sure you've recently used TC and have rage to revenge for more SS proc chances
it's where all the finesse is and comes with practice
vapid canopy
hey guys, how good is IQD for prot and fury off? i gues not that good right
jagged pier
not good for us
mighty valley
it's only really good for dps classes with truly busted secondary scaling so they can ignore the downsides
mighty valley
is 100% training dummy uptime possible tho
it is possible but remember you're not getting intervene procs on a dummy, and might not be working on charge procs
vapid canopy
cheers for resposnse!
mighty valley
so that + damage taken rage income makes it a lot easier in real situations
round cliff
it is possible but remember you're not getting intervene procs on a dummy, and m...
yea i dont get much of either
as in, none
mighty valley
every one is basically 60 rage
round cliff
60?
mighty valley
20 rage + free (mini) shield block + revenge proc
round cliff
o
for banner uptime ur looking to dump as much rage as possible into revenge? since it can reset ss
mighty valley
yes
the rule of thumb is generate as much rage as possible, use every other GCD on revenge, then use IP to avoid overcap
round cliff
every other?
mighty valley
as in, GCDs that aren't generating rage
round cliff
o
median tulip
for banner uptime ur looking to dump as much rage as possible into revenge? sinc...
You're looking to dump as much Rage as possible full stop. Ideally into Execute, but Revenge if that's not available. You will need to dump Rage into IP to prevent overcapping though.
mighty valley
when you have big rage income, like during Last Stand, you can sometimes even skip TC since it barely does damage and only gives 5 rage
lavish oracle
Is it just always better to SS than TC? I've been favoring TC on 5+ targets
round cliff
bleh i feel like i blow my entire rage-load and can still only get banner to last until it goes on cd with 57 sec
no intervene but using charges
onyx matrix
An Entire Season of No Shield in the Vault, and today... 2 of them!
Not bad
What did you guys get in your vault today?
lavish oracle
Big shield
strong forum
I'll find out in 8hrs!
median tulip
I can now open the vault as Arms for the rest of the season
tame jasper
I dont even know what i wanna get. The chance for 285 set item is unrealistic therefore pending between arms for 2h or prot for 6ilvl scale 🤷♂️
round cliff
on the dummy when i have everything on cd shouldnt i banner first
the charge + shout + avatar + free seeing red charge is a lot of rage to dump into it
ionic fern
Of course you banner and then pop your CD's. 👀
jagged pier
wrong u want to banner before avatar and demo
blazing condor
Always banner first
jagged pier
wasting rage otherwise
ionic fern
Guides are a starting point for new people, not a "strict" rule.
blazing condor
Wasting rage and wasting banner extension
jagged pier
and u usually rav before charging
round cliff
wrong u want to banner before avatar and demo
yea this made the most sense to me
sacred salmon
and u usually rav before charging
really? for what?
round cliff
gcd u dont have to take away from ur rotation
sacred salmon
make sense thanks 🙂
strong forum
wasting rage otherwise
Technically you can pop banner as late as you want, just make sure to use banner before spending rage
strong forum
Should be like 95 rage
jagged pier
and poping banner is earlier is more passive rage
strong forum
Nnvm is 105
strong forum
I'm almost certain we'll see a max rage increase talent
jagged pier
strong forum
And a talent which "improves" LS
strong forum
it's behind unstoppable force
jagged pier
jagged pier
👀
lime urchin
Frens, I am happy to inform you
That I went from 1500 rage wasted per run
To 500 rage wasted per run
Maybe one day no more wasted rage!
lavish oracle
Hoping we can get BFA warrior with the new talent tree but there will probably be like an AM/Bolster choice node or something
deep solar
im having a hard time fitting in full fleshcraft casts without dropping banner any help?
jagged pier
dont use fleshcraft
strong forum
Only use FC for like 0.1sec cast to get the buffs if you want
Full channel you only do if you want to use it as an extra defensive or between packs if you won't be able to extend banner
dawn canyon
also learning how to do it is a good idea
jagged pier
haste helps but thats really not the issue
round cliff
if its not the issue im at a total loss then
ill have to send in logs after all
is there a writeup on how to log lol
jagged pier
How do i log ?
So, if you have been here for a while, you may have noticed that whenever somebody ask for advice we ask them for a log, and if you’re new you might have no idea what that means or how to get one so :
🔸 First, download Loggerhead (https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/loggerhead) or ERT (https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/exorsus-raid-tools)
Once you have one of these any time you enter a zone where you might want a log (ie dungeon/raid/torghast) these addons will automatically start logging (in the case of ERT you have to activate automated logging in the options).
Alternatively if you don’t want to install an addon for it, whenever you are going to do an activity you want to log type /combatlog in chat to start logging said activity.
Remember to activate advanced logging in the options (System -> Network -> Advanced Combat Logging)
All these options will store your logs in your wow file inside the retail folder and the log file.
🔸 Second, go here (https://www.warcraftlogs.com/client/download) download the client. Select the live section of the client, select the upload a log button and select the fight you’re interested in putting up as a log and boom you’re done.
🔸 Third, once you’ve done all this, your log is uploaded you can put it up here and we can look at it together to see if you’re doing something wrong.
If you wish look at your own log Jakey made a nice little video explaining what we look at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1tRp8lULT8
round cliff
how do u end logging w/ the command
since a dummy doesnt die
does it just end when u leave combat
round cliff
waaa im sure im doing something extremely obviously dumb wrong so i dont wanna post logs for my dignity but its the best way to learn so
dawn canyon
you should just post them
swallow your pride and get better with the help the yellows can provide 
round cliff
ig my dignity was gone when i could only achieve a 1:10 long banner anyways xd
ill post log soonish
sweet summit
if you don't want to post it public you can DM me if that's easier 
round cliff
i will publicly bear shame
sweet summit
round cliff
banner -> ravager -> charge or ravager -> banner -> charge
id think banner first right so all the dmg ticks get boosted
grave crane
Idk about m+ but you have to be in combat in raid before popping banner. Otherwise you lose the buff. You also want to pop last stand with the rage conduit since that will give you massive rage gains. I also have a ravaged macro for [@heavy mirage] so it just throws it at my feet
round cliff
u dont need last stand for 100% uptime do u
im trying to avoid it while practicing so i can get the rotation down without it
round cliff
alright
grave crane
It’s kind of an offensive honestly with the rage gen and that translates to rage spent so not outbursts. So I get trying to save it as a defensive heal but honestly just blast it on pull and with on SB uptime and any time SS can be cast do it. I had trouble with using revenge while SS got reset and not casting it. Doing that hurts uptime since your not casting as many SS and generating rage
round cliff
weird im suddenly doing much better
maybe its just practice after all
idk if this is the "good" one or not but it has the longest timer so im gonna assume its the best attempt i had
its about how well most of my training dummy sessions go
i notice i have a bad habit of wasting gcds on revenge when i could be pressing slam or clap
wait is that the pull i forgot to press banner
echo egret
Anyone could offer a good DOS route with good heroism positioning ? And maybe even one route for Fort one route for Tyr ?
round cliff
is the end of fight logged just whenever combat drops?
chrome falcon
u dont need last stand for 100% uptime do u
You kinda do, and during last stand you have to play differently and spam it much more, so you’re kind of hurting yourself by not using it
And yeah it should be when combat ends
Remember if you’re not in an instance you need to actively start the log yourself
round cliff
ye i did but its not showing my latest log 🤔
oh it uploads at the start of next log
thats the best i could do since i have to not be gaming rn
hollow gull
Are this soulbind and conduits ok? I feel like i never find the best necro soulbind between the 3 for prot. remeber it is for m+ i dont do raid
round cliff
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/J1rtV47QhTWZ2gFG/#fight=10
@ionic fern here u go
hollow gull
Ideally 3 potency
and losing 1 def conduit? is it worth the fragment over a def one?
wise sluice
Things that are dead can't kill you
hollow gull
Things that are dead can't kill you
lol
wise sluice
It's true tho
hollow gull
Drop sphere not unnerving
will try this full kamikaze lol
strong forum
The defensive conduit you get from marileth after that potency one is pretty good
sweet summit
ooz owns
chrome falcon
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/J1rtV47QhTWZ2gFG/#fight=10
just looking now one sec need to get up
Warcraft logs not a good site for mobile browsing
i mean this definitely isn't terrible, obviously one 80 second look at you hitting a dummy doesn't say a huge amount
you only cast ravager once
which is pretty rough
and you could have charged twice more
you probably missed some SS casts
but your rage wasted is very low
ultimately though a dummy parse only says so much, if you can log a full key that would tell us a lot more
cobalt seal
Dumny is a start
chrome falcon
oh for sure
cobalt seal
But most get stress out in m+
chrome falcon
you definitely want to spend a good amount of time whacking a dummy to learn banner uptime
cobalt seal
Because they have to pay attention to multiple
chrome falcon
and getting used to hitting charge/ravager/avatar/outburst SS properly