Dragon boss does suck
#protection
undone verge
stuck kite
wtf just watched the video the prot is playing kyrian?
strong forum
As we just said
median tulip
Whereas all of the bosses in ToP are easy pickings
strong forum
I hate top
dawn canyon
also people know top mechanics
median tulip
Kul'Tharock being literally brain-dead easy
fiery badge
Kyrian is good
dawn canyon
not as good as necro
strong forum
Not as good as necro
stuck kite
not good as necro
dawn canyon
especially not in a sanguine key
median tulip
The only problem I ever have in ToP is stupid DPS not stacking in the entry room to Gorechop's wing
strong forum
"only attacks group but not tank here"
"does aoe stomp which kills group here"
"randomly attacks group here and slows"
"jumps around here and wipes the group if not kicked"
"does frontal and back attack that wipes you"
"explodes when dies"
"chops closest target but also does a tank attack which heals him"
"cast a bigass shield"
That's why I hate top
strong forum
You have 0 control over it as a tank
You're literally useless in that dungeon as a tank
dawn canyon
ok yea
median tulip
NW is worse because there's more leaping bastards. Some ranged DPS need to get their brains around the idea that Leaping Mob = stack on tank
dawn canyon
NW is worse because there's more leaping bastards. Some ranged DPS need to get t...
but in ranged that means i plant 
vernal vale
Yup all about the egos I swear. Until 20s it doesn't matter really.
median tulip
Yeah I was mostly talking about vault-filling in 15s
tropic linden
Yeah... That's called teamwork
median tulip
I've been drunk and still successfully tanked ToP+15
fiery badge
I hate gorechop trash
tropic linden
The tanking part is easy AF in TOP
fiery badge
Other than that not bad
tropic linden
the problem is the DPS killing themself
stuck kite
i have to share an anecdote
median tulip
I hate gorechop trash
Agreed, but... there's not very much of it
vernal vale
Yeah I was mostly talking about vault-filling in 15s
60 hour work week destroys Mt desire to push rating.
15s are a joke easy do vault filling at least
tropic linden
Can't go back to college when i played for hours every day
median tulip
60 hour work week destroys Mt desire to push rating.
I know that feeling. I've got my 2500, might get 3k if I can be arsed
vernal vale
Unless you get a healer like tge monk in a plagufall I did last night that got hit by tentacles on last boss over and over.
vernal vale
I know that feeling. I've got my 2500, might get 3k if I can be arsed
I need to get my portals for 20s still I've been. Lazy
median tulip
Unless you get a healer like tge monk in a plagufall I did last night that got h...
Monk, the most mobile healer? Oh dear
strong forum
Yup all about the egos I swear. Until 20s it doesn't matter really.
Even in 20s it doesn't mattee
I've literally done 5 tank keys this week
20-22
stuck kite
yup even in 20...
blazing condor
20 Is the new 15
timber slate
The tanking part is easy AF in TOP
Being top dps on Xav 100% of the time
strong forum
Cries in 268
median tulip
Infinite Valour makes gear score go brrrrrr
fiery badge
I’m 262 on my main SV hunter lol
blazing condor
Pussy
blazing condor
Based
strong forum
We on that sigma grindset
blazing condor
entry exam for Stormforged
stuck kite
just watch sloth theatre run with dk
how iis this even possible to make 50k dps as a tank on a pack...
they literally nerfed our clap, nerfed aoe for that?
to let that coming up?
stuck kite
so
strong forum
That thing alone contributes to 3k of their overall dps or some shit
stuck kite
next question too, why not buff war aoe
strong forum
Who cares about burst dps
vernal vale
Even in 20s it doesn't mattee
In pugs it can dps need to bind kick. Thankfully I'm in a guild that runs keys now
stuck kite
how much are we doing
strong forum
Like 30-35k
echo egret
what can you do against 3K players who die mindlessly 3 times on 3rd boss SD21 ?
echo egret
Well I'd like to time it above 20 one day...
timber slate
Tell them to gather the orbs
echo egret
I don't have 3k myself yet 🙂
timber slate
Or use defensive
fiery badge
This is gonna be one of those seasons where people have 4-5k ios like BfA season 4
jagged pier
3k is like old 2.5k where i stop because i have KSH and no need to play anymore
echo egret
yep I want my conduits and that's it
timber slate
I dont even have 2k
Im just too bored 
blazing condor
I dont got a good team to push with so no need to try and do it
undone verge
Im finishing my fort 20s then I’m done pushing
echo egret
I'd like to think "I did it"
fiery badge
I’m almost 2k, I’ve had no time to play. I main DPS so harder to find groups
Probably finish the season at like 2.7-3k
timber slate
Wanted to gear a frost dk yesterday, but i remembered about the infinite queue times
fiery badge
I play a sv hunter and I have trouble filling and finding groups also, especially on bad weeks
strong forum
This is gonna be one of those seasons where people have 4-5k ios like BfA season...
Nah
fiery badge
Nobody wants to tank or heal
strong forum
Ya 4.1 at best
fiery badge
What’s Nerf at rn
timber slate
Played SV during season 1 where it was considered a meme
Got KSM and was top dps in keys almost every time
strong forum
Naowh is at 3920
fiery badge
He was the guy that had like a 5k in BfA
blazing condor
🤔
dawn canyon
strong forum
People got up to 9.9k in bfa
fiery badge
I remember the world first +30 Tol Dagor that those Chinese guys did
That was around when nerf was 5k
dawn canyon
nerf isnt the tank to look at imo
strong forum
5k score in bfa was 25/26s
dawn canyon
naowh and andy are the big guns
strong forum
Nerf is good at dungeons, but not at classes
timber slate
Was KSM « easier » in bfa?
I mean, did you need a high rating?
strong forum
He's playing quite poorly often times
blazing condor
Goes to show
blazing condor
Was KSM « easier » in bfa?
I mean, did you need a high rating?
Ksm was just all 15s
Once not twice
strong forum
Now you just need 16 keys instead of 8
fiery badge
Andybrew?
strong forum
Yes
brazen yarrow
anduin wrynn
fiery badge
I may try out Brew, seems easy
strong forum
It is
dawn canyon
stagger is pretty good
timber slate
With full set you barely have to purify
timber slate
Of course!
fiery badge
How hard is monk to gear
dawn canyon
i dont see this hard to gear argument
timber slate
Same as every spec?
dawn canyon
they all require the same amount of work
timber slate
Pure RNG
fiery badge
BDK seems annoying cause you have to raid
Warr is annoying cause you need a good shield drop
dawn canyon
oh
strong forum
Leather classes are the easiest to gear
dawn canyon
so how difficult it is to get all urshit
strong forum
Cuz so many people can trade you shit
Plate are the hardest to gear
Cuz nobody plays fucking plate
patent osprey
????? I was playing prot war last night :(
it's just a tank that requires healing as opposed to like BDK which is completely self sufficient and does more dps. Brew is more self sufficient and does a better aoe dps.
all the pushing tanks... just req less to no healing atm :(
strong forum
I mean
patent osprey
but I still love playing prot war
urban portal
plka<sense clearly
strong forum
Haven't checked plka logs tbf
patent osprey
In keys on hard pulls prot war req healing
not talking about raids
there is literally 0 way to dispute prot wars place in m+. It's not a bad tank
strong forum
I'm talking bout 25/26s
patent osprey
25/26 is fine on any tank
jagged pier
plka<sense clearly
No one is better than sense tbh the man is a god at prot
cinder storm
I'm the best prot....in my house
urban portal
always feel like people forget that
patent osprey
doesn't mean I don't enjoy it though and I'll still push on prot
urban portal
that prot war can push the same high keys as any other tank, but it just requires a lot more effort
patent osprey
that prot war can push the same high keys as any other tank, but it just require...
100% and reqs alot less mistakes
so if Andy or like naowh play it, it can do the highest keys? it's just worse though
strong forum
And thats why only very select few can make it shine
jagged pier
Its been that way all expansion though
urban portal
and thats why the meta pushers would prefer something that is easier to execute
strong forum
You need a R1 team to get there
cinder storm
If all tanks hits the same, and heal the same, pwar still wouldn't be top tank this season, other tanks have too many utilities for sl
urban portal
and like you some people said here, nerf is not good at his class, just good at the game
strong forum
The utility argument is dumb
patent osprey
it's not just easier to execute, it's less punishing. If someone misses a kick, ur key can just be over.
urban portal
so nerf doesnt wanna play something like prot war
patent osprey
but high teams don't really miss
strong forum
Naowh is getting into keys where he just gets randomly 1tapped
strong forum
Its likely we'll see a shift in meta soon
urban portal
Plka is bear actually in the worst spot of all tanks rn?
patent osprey
Plka is bear actually in the worst spot of all tanks rn?
it's just so God awful st damage
urban portal
in m+
cinder storm
It's not dumb when you can limit your teams kick and let them focus, or in pugs where ppl miss kicks
patent osprey
it's fine to play the key but ur definitely just alot slower on bosses or big mobs
patent osprey
It's not dumb when you can limit your teams kick and let them focus, or in pugs ...
even if I'm with 3700+ Keyes they miss kicks when called
it's normal to make mistakes
but yeah prot war has 0 recovery for it
where as other classes don't even care if a kick is missed too much
Also prot war is like the worst tank for inspiring with magic caster mibs
strong forum
That's my main gripe with it
patent osprey
shadowcore bolt is just death
strong forum
Naowh drops to 3k hp cuz 3 casts go uninterrupted and he just lol DS
patent osprey
dk just hits deathstrike
patent osprey
yeah bdk is busted and they whined enough to not get the broken part of them nerfed
strong forum
In streets +30 btw
patent osprey
no class should have 100% uptime of their biggest offensive and defensive cd
strong forum
Perma SW when?
cinder storm
So we just need to band together and whine? There's tens of us, TENS
strong forum
Oh wait pwar isn't allowed to have fun
strong forum
So we just need to band together and whine? There's tens of us, TENS
Maybe even dozens!
patent osprey
bdk right now is so egregious, I have never seen so many m+ tank resolving to bdk
grizzled nova
It's just annoying that BDK does obscene damage and can death strike it's way through anything that doesn't kill them in under 2 globals.
patent osprey
palbrew, one of the best brews has gone dk
aerostides, a really good prot pal -> gone dk
patent osprey
deosww-> prot warrior pusher at the start of this season has gone full bdk
dawn canyon
stone is learning bdk too
grizzled nova
It's because bdk has full agency over their own healthbar.
patent osprey
this is more egregious than bfa s4 to me but bdks don't see it that way
hazy edge
My favorite part in all of this is Andy going "Hmmm maybe I should go prot war?"
strong forum
Cuz Andy isn't monkey
urban portal
no class should have 100% uptime of their biggest offensive and defensive cd
tbf you can be like havoc dh and have 100% uptime on their offensive cd and still be mid
hazy edge
Cuz Andy isn't monkey
Yup
strong forum
He actually thinks outside of the box
dawn canyon
andys stream and playlist are so good
strong forum
T. S2
patent osprey
prot war is good on some keys actually
patent osprey
its very good for NW on high tyran. It also supplements the hunter meta by giving them the 18% safeguard dr
grizzled nova
I think prot warrior is objectively the most fun to play of the tanks, but it's still hard to not look at BDK just carelessly death striking through content that makes pwar struggle bus.
hazy edge
ToP, maybe Mists and DoS
strong forum
Isnt safeguard well over 20 now
hazy edge
^
mellow bridge
it's exactly 20% now pretty sure
cinder storm
Yesterday naowh was getting blasted by the deconstruct on a DoS 30 and I was like "heh, just SR it"
patent osprey
I'm on a plane atm so i can't check Lol
mellow bridge
and why would you go prot warr for dos
patent osprey
I'm on the tarmac
patent osprey
so if I stop talking I'm flying :)
cinder storm
Safe travels
dawn canyon
boss trucks
strong forum
Depleted all keys in hakkar wing
Also depleted their SD29 cuz he just randomly flops
strong forum
No but I'm saying
Bdk is reaching his ceiling
You can only go so far
To survive on rng
sage yacht
prot warr new meta 
dawn canyon
well bdk is immortal till the hit goes over their entire hp bar
grizzled nova
Are they reaching a ceiling, or just reaching the point where the healer is gonna have to actually look at their healthbar in some scenarios?
strong forum
Are they reaching a ceiling, or just reaching the point where the healer is gonn...
Ceiling as in dying if bdk doesn't parry
Literally getting globalled, if a bdk doesn't get globalled, he can heal it back up
That's how they always worked
urban portal
will keys go that high this season tho
patent osprey
but if bdk falls vdh may take over
strong forum
I mean he's right there Hekili
patent osprey
meta is a hell of a cd
blazing condor
Base 30s is gonna happen for sure
strong forum
Probably
urban portal
cant be more than prot warrior
mellow bridge
28 streets 1st boss procced me in 1s because I didnt have meta or fb up yday
blazing condor
31s you can at least do PF and NW.
mellow bridge
and you cannot have permanent uptime
blazing condor
Gambit you can probably do 31 as well id imagine
grizzled nova
you can with giga rng 
undone verge
What about streets fort? That might get up there
patent osprey
maybe but venge has alot of self healing. China always breaks the wall with vdh every season
strong forum
Veng only has healing in aoe
blazing condor
Sucks you cant see whats happening in china
patent osprey
well like in streets last boss fks prot war
mellow bridge
idk rare is just tankier than any other dh in the world somehow
strong forum
Not in ST
blazing condor
Those people are always on some goofy shit but it works
mellow bridge
^
patent osprey
he does pure Magix dam
mellow bridge
what nome is saying
timber slate
Veng is cringe tho
grizzled nova
China vdh usually just seems like pure mobility abuse.
mellow bridge
vdh is just bad in st idk
mellow bridge
like VDH def has its strengths
but if a BDK is gonna struggle on a boss, I doubt VDH will be much better for it
strong forum
We don't translate well into aoe
patent osprey
parry is busted in aoe fort
strong forum
Damned tierset
patent osprey
so vdh and bdk are good at fort
urban portal
parry is busted in aoe fort
yeah but have you considered crit stacking on prot war
for extra parry
strong forum
In my 5 tank keys I literally spec into ST dmg cuz I just do way more than the others
patent osprey
yeah but have you considered crit stacking on prot war
parry won't save me from wicked bolts
strong forum
And aoe is handled by the vdhs
grizzled nova
yeah but have you considered crit stacking on prot war
But what are you gonna give up for crit, either haste or vers and either seems like a bad idea.
urban portal
vers is overrated
patent osprey
prot war execute just very good on tyran too
dawn canyon
if u want crit just use opc 🧠
patent osprey
so if u see Andy play prot war, it's most likely on tyran only
grizzled nova
vers is overrated
based on what?
mellow bridge
parry from crit DRs way too hard if youre not memeing
patent osprey
and other tanks for other things
urban portal
based on literally everyone
undone verge
Prot pal just doesn’t appeal to me
sharp dew
Did the dos blood scale trinket get changed at all from season 1? Just wondering why no one runs it when it was a hard meta in s1 or if it’s still a good option
mellow bridge
no in between
undone verge
you either feel immortal or flop
This
mellow bridge
feels very awkward
strong forum
Did the dos blood scale trinket get changed at all from season 1? Just wondering...
Nerfed by 30%
grizzled nova
you either feel immortal or flop
you're either taking physical or magical damage
lol
strong forum
Magic dmg is fine cuz we have CDs, issue is when the CDs run out and there's still magic dmg
patent osprey
I hate running ows and aegis still though:/
undone verge
One pack I never drop below 70% the other pack I need a cheat death and all my cds
patent osprey
i need to get off aegis on prot war
mellow bridge
on my VDH I can def feel the difference in dmg patterns and that is fine
strong forum
All of them suck
mellow bridge
but pwarr is way too extreme on the scale
wild hemlock
cant we boost renown to 60 now?
wild hemlock
i have 0 as necro and want to pick up necro
mellow bridge
cant we boost renown to 60 now?
no next patch
sharp dew
9.2 sucks for trinkets
What would you want to run from dungeon loot?
mellow bridge
you can boost to 40
patent osprey
prot war has no options :(
wild hemlock
fuckkkkk ok
strong forum
What would you want to run from dungeon loot?
Idk chief, spin the wheel
Phial, soleahs
That's about it
Scale is dogswater
patent osprey
soleahs, mmmm spires haste trinket
sharp dew
Oof
strong forum
100k absorb on a 2min CD on 5 targets
patent osprey
scale is still fine defensively
wild hemlock
ive freaking already done the campaign on prot
strong forum
Big whoop
grizzled nova
9.0 scale PepeHands
blazing condor
216 pog
patent osprey
ok good bye friends. see you on the other side.
blazing condor
Bye plka
strong forum
Plka becoming EU boi
blazing condor
Sad titanic flute for you
hazy edge
Bye Plka
strong forum
Letsgoo
grizzled nova
tell the pilot to fly fast and take chances
patent osprey
fly me so fast into draginflight thanks
strong forum
This
urban portal
@patent osprey if you ever get heart of the swarm
meme with that
its pretty funny
macro it to your spear so your spear full heals you
and you can still block during swarm
blazing condor
Dk playstyle
strong forum
But spear
wild hemlock
is fastest way for renown comp stomp still?
grizzled nova
yeah I dunno, prot warrior feels fun to play on the whole, but there's definitely a point where I feel like I don't have enough defensives for non-physical damage, and my inability to either mitigate or heal through it is just straight worse than other tanks.
And being comically immortal to physical damage is nice, but other tanks don't struggle to deal with it so it's kinda not really a comparative benefit
jagged pier
is fastest way for renown comp stomp still?
Torg, zm campaign
lime urchin
It all comes down to: play whatever you have most fun with. Unless you are pushing big boi keyz
jagged pier
yeah I dunno, prot warrior feels fun to play on the whole, but there's definitel...
I mean thats ither key level 26 upwards or your playing incorrectly
lime urchin
But I assume most people here play within the + 18-25 range and it all is fine
wild hemlock
Torg, zm campaign
campaign is done. ill look into torg. thanks
grizzled nova
campaign is done. ill look into torg. thanks
from 40 ZM campaign should get you to 80
and then some
repeatable renown sources start to fall off after 50, but torghast 9 seems to be the best time to return place
wild hemlock
from 40 ZM campaign should get you to 80
CAMPAIGN IS DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE
grizzled nova
But I assume most people here play within the + 18-25 range and it all is fine
Yeah for sure, warrior is fine here but still, as a comparative exercise the flaws are evident
blizzard just needs to slap some flex tape on IP
not like legion season 1 levels, but they could probably double it and pwar still wouldn't be out of line relative to bdk
median tulip
But I assume most people here play within the + 18-25 range and it all is fine
I think most of the knowledgable people here do, but we are also here for people who are running lower keys, even if just starting out tanking a +2
median tulip
I just want more damage TBH
chrome falcon
Having weaknesses is good because it forces you fo figure out how to play around and overcome them
And, like, to be honest we don’t really have weaknesses outside of giga content
If you’re dying and you’re not doing keys in the mid 20s you probably fucked up
lime urchin
Not every class should be good at everything
Amen!
zenith vine
i want to be OP at EVERYTHING!!!!
tropic linden
until u notice fury is just the better dps warrior
grizzled nova
Having weaknesses is good because it forces you fo figure out how to play around...
Sure a nice sentiment and all, but, again, as a comparative exercise here, if we're accepting that BDK can both snap their health bar back to full every other GCD and do as much single target as a DPS, then either that's way overtuned or other tanks are way undertuned.
tropic linden
Sure a nice sentiment and all, but, again, as a comparative exercise here, if we...
BDK dies to RNG
No thanks
They can just be 1shot if they don't pary
chrome falcon
Sure a nice sentiment and all, but, again, as a comparative exercise here, if we...
Yeah I dunno man do you want me to argue that BDK is balanced because I’m not going to do that
But it doesn’t change the fact that prot can handle all the content anyone in this channel is ever going to do so
It’s irrelevant
tropic linden
BDK is NOT the pushing tank ppl somehow think he is
urban portal
but thats on a 30 at least
brazen yarrow
bdk is the main character
sick sentinel
naowh getting globalled on 30s
brazen yarrow
naowh could just play pvp for the same experience of being 1 shot
chrome falcon
There’s no point in comparing yourself to other tank classes anyway
Compare yourself to the content you’re doing
And prot currently crushes that
tropic linden
imo arms is the better spec when its far ahead on st
Isn't fury ahead ?
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/29/#dataset=95
i know u said ST, but raid is mostly ST right?
urban portal
i guess hes saying that arms is better in st when its mostly equal in sims?
but yes fury is generally ahead
tropic linden
Arms should be ahead in DPS, cause u have to think as Arms, fury is just pressing whatever button u can
As fast as u can
brazen yarrow
when can we expect warlock nerfs
sick sentinel
Isn't fury ahead ?
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/29/#dataset=95
as i said arms is the better spec only if its far ahead on st
brazen yarrow
warlock nerf when
sick sentinel
not that its hte better spec now
timber slate
Fury is too mainstream
timber slate
They have it
Its called not unleashing your CDs on pull
grizzled nova
There’s no point in comparing yourself to other tank classes anyway
I agree prot warrior is fine in the 20+/-3 area that I run keys and that's why I feel no compulsion to run other tanks, but as a comparison of relative balance I can still look at the weaker sides of pwar, which while not prohibitive for my content level, will become limiting far faster than kits on other tanks.
chrome falcon
Idk man people in here are doing like 26s
grizzled nova
There's nothing wrong with this, scaling things up and down to find out where the system breaks down is fine.
sick sentinel
i'd love to see someone do a key as venthyr prot warrior
chrome falcon
Why
gray iris
Arms should be ahead in DPS, cause u have to think as Arms, fury is just pressin...
my main is arms and at ilvl 254 i do more damage than some players doing at 265ilvl with fury
sick sentinel
why not
chrome falcon
I dunno because it’s bad I guess
timber slate
my main is arms and at ilvl 254 i do more damage than some players doing at 265i...
Because they’re bad players
gray iris
bonegrinder at fortified after bladestorm takes your dps to another level
timber slate
Do arms use WW now?
gray iris
ww with bonegrinder in mythic +
sick sentinel
fury does for sure to get cleave stacks is what i'll call it, its not but it is
stacks 2 times and you get 2 stacks per WW
lofty widget
I agree prot warrior is fine in the 20+/-3 area that I run keys and that's why I...
still sub 1.5k ehrps at 26/27s, our kit is more than fine atm
gray iris
havent played arms for a while now though
sick sentinel
empowers your next attack to be cleave aoe whatever you want to call it
gray iris
for st arms go rend with 2 ms and aj
timber slate
fury does for sure to get cleave stacks is what i'll call it, its not but it is
Fury WW doesnt need rage though
You can spam it
sick sentinel
upshot to prot WW, only one, it has a cool animation
literal nothing else good about it
timber slate
Played arms in 9.1 and they told me to remove WW off my bars lol
gray iris
havent used ww with prot though
grizzled nova
still sub 1.5k ehrps at 26/27s, our kit is more than fine atm
then why does pwar participation in keys over 25 fall off a cliff relative to other tanks?
we can make it work != fine, at least imo.
timber slate
Because revenge is stronger and cost less rage
sick sentinel
oh, it deals some amount of critable, aoe damage (but you still wouldnt want to press it anyway)
gray iris
oh, it deals some amount of critable, aoe damage (but you still wouldnt want to ...
that is proly for epic players lol
lofty widget
then why does pwar participation in keys over 25 fall off a cliff relative to ot...
because the amount of skilled warrior tanks is much lower than the amount of skilled other tanks
sick sentinel
what if prot WW you press it and some effect happens
lofty widget
if you can make it work, then it's literally fine
gray iris
i dont use ww while playing arms if im not playing bonegrinder...ww is a weak ass power
sick sentinel
revenge is superior to WW on every concievable level surface level and deep
there is never a sitaution for prot warrior where hitting WW will be better than hitting revenge if you could
sick sentinel
its not even that much less damage but the damage doesn't scale, doesn't get talented or conduited
its on next attack as opposed to instant
grizzled nova
if you can make it work, then it's literally fine
Again, I'm not arguing whether or not the kit can be made to work at all, I'm not dooming that pwar is incapable of performing with the right play, this is a question of relative balance.
sick sentinel
however, i have to say i think the animation for pwar WW is just so much better than a bunch of abilities that we do use
strong forum
Pwar is incredibly strong in the current raid
But oh look at that
It's the least played tank by far
It's 99% monk and bdk
Even in fucking bfa
gray iris
warrior is a difficult class to play...people frak out when they cannot heal themselves
strong forum
Where every bitch and their mom cried that pwar was too strong
sick sentinel
BFA paladin tanks did not exist
strong forum
It was the least played tank in raid
jagged pier
Just let me execute for 50% of the jailer fight okay
past grove
"Why press 5 buttons when I can press 2 and get most of the way there" mentality
sick sentinel
in BFA only time you saw prot pallies was 8.0-8.1, 8.2 and 8.3 they were known for just going exploded in dungeon to nothing
grizzled nova
Where every bitch and their mom cried that pwar was too strong
I think every bitch and their mom cried that tclapping cheeks was too strong in the context of m+
sturdy sable
It's 99% monk and bdk
Alot of ppl consider these to be "safe" picks
strong forum
I think every bitch and their mom cried that tclapping cheeks was too strong in ...
And why doesn't that apply to raid?
sturdy sable
Not alot of effort for mitigation/survival
sick sentinel
was all DK monk warrior tanks, odd druid tank, but druid tanks i saw in bfa were exceptional
grizzled nova
And why doesn't that apply to raid?
Because you generally aren't hitting 5+ targets
sick sentinel
did some run with gaurdian of low key KR and we 2-3 chested it
strong forum
Currently pwar is literally in the top 3 of ST dmg
And edges out on ST on the most important fight of the tier
Yet it still isn't played
sturdy sable
Yeah the streamers arnt playing it
grizzled nova
yeah I really don't think that has anything to do with it
streamers aren't playing it for good reason
sturdy sable
Ppl dont think for themselves they just regurgitate what other people say
strong forum
They don't like it :)
grizzled nova
you can get more out of other tanks with less
sturdy sable
Like this thukker guy
chilly brook
Yet it still isn't played
because you got people like tettles and dratnos saying we're a cut behind in defense and damage
strong forum
C - tier
sturdy sable
While picking punish and bolster
strong forum
Literally unplayable
past grove
I dunno, my EHRPS on my warrior is always lower 🤷
chilly brook
I dunno, my EHRPS on my warrior is always lower 🤷
because it should be
sturdy sable
My ehrps was lower then dps last night
lofty widget
median tulip
None of the people writing tier lists even know what EHRPS is, let alone look at it as a metric
past grove
because it should be
exactly, as warr defences are better 😉
sick sentinel
i feel like prot warrior missing something major in kit, it feels like it just has alot of downsides with little upside
strong forum
you can get more out of other tanks with less
You wanna know what everybody who actually has played war said? Damn it's actually pretty fun, everyone else who says they're garbage, hasn't even tried.
That's why
None of them actually tried
grizzled nova
ofc everyone says they're fun, because they objectively are.
chilly brook
i feel like prot warrior missing something major in kit, it feels like it just h...
uhhh no lol
strong forum
And it's a recurring theme
chilly brook
literally feels like nothing is missing atm
grizzled nova
I think that's pure copium.
strong forum
It's a circle jerk of saying "pwar is shit"
chilly brook
I think that's pure copium.
what is
cinder storm
I like the "plan ahead your CD/bar usage" instead of "wait for x CD to pop" that other tanks have for me
chilly brook
That people always shit on warrior and don't care to try it until it's deemed OP?
cinder storm
Pwar is just too fun, even better now with necro
grizzled nova
that people don't give it an honest try and just jump to the conclusion that it's shit
grizzled nova
pure copium
grizzled nova
people play what's strongest, what is the most reliable to extract performance from
chilly brook
then in 8.1 despite there being minimal changes all of a sudden we were OP
strong forum
And how many legendaries and tier pieces it has
sick sentinel
its also like dk has alot of the advantages that pwar has with parry and heavy duty armor, but then not only do you have DG you have brez, and pet control undead
chilly brook
*pure* copium
This literally happens all the time
sick sentinel
and its like, what does pwar get to compenstate and compete
chilly brook
People do this to tanks legit all the time
strong forum
Same with bear
median tulip
Prot warrior suffers in the eyes of people who "try a bit of everything" (which includes tier writers) because it takes some time to master the spec
sturdy sable
then in 8.1 despite there being minimal changes all of a sudden we were OP
Ip off gcd man
strong forum
Have you not seen 9.0?
sturdy sable
Was huge
chilly brook
People said prot paladin was ass in 9.0
strong forum
Where nobody played bear
jagged pier
Prot chat on fire today 🤔
chilly brook
then in 9.1 it was meta
sick sentinel
9.0 was very dark times
cinder storm
didnt ppl went bear because DH got fixed?
sick sentinel
never going back to maw again unless it forces me to
chilly brook
^
strong forum
Same with pally in s2
sturdy sable
Yeah the court of public opinion is pretty severe
strong forum
Nobody gave it a try
And here comes Andy
On his pally
Same with Andy in S1 on pwar
ocean yoke
people finally realized "oh a shield from every time i thrash and thrashing every gcd might be kinda strong"
strong forum
"pwar unplayable"
sturdy sable
My warrior is 276 my pally is 270 equal io my pally gets into keys way quicker
strong forum
Meanwhile he gets r2 World in 2 weeks
hazy edge
Andy is the savior of tanks
strong forum
REALLY WEIRD HOW THAT WORKS
sick sentinel
i remember shaman healers being really good for keys in SL, super duper soaker shammy build, mega hps and dps
hazy edge
man doesn't conform to the "meta" and actually thinks outside the box and tries tanks out
cinder storm
sometimes it not about the class, but your team
strong forum
It 100% is bubbles
cinder storm
many here would be doing 25s with andy's team
sturdy sable
sometimes it not about the class, but your team
Thats the whole point of the game lol
cinder storm
thats the thing most ppl dont get lol
hazy edge
Asks theorycrafters they strength and weaknesses of each tank, and actually tries to learn them
cinder storm
they see people doing things at the top level but the team is on point, zaelia is a god healer
sturdy sable
Isnt it like..... Resto sham?
strong forum
Shaman tbh
sick sentinel
mostly speaking pwar tank but like whatever
sturdy sable
Kicks are hard to beat
strong forum
I don't agree with hpriest
chilly brook
Just sitting here and saying that tanks don't suffer through this if you're not top 2 tanks in court of public opinion that you're viewed as ass is copium is kinda omegalul
median tulip
sometimes it not about the class, but your team
This is why I hate it when people form M+ groups without a melee DPS
chilly brook
because it's how the community treats literally all tanks
hazy edge
Healers are almost in the same situation tanks are in. You're going to be playing some combo of rsham, hpriest, and hpal depending on the key
sick sentinel
Hpriest also has some weird shit going on like our tier set they will cast spells and it reduces a 12m cd by 30 seconds each time, so its really a 3 minutes cd
sturdy sable
Tanks have historically been the whipping boys of the mmo community
grizzled nova
Just sitting here and saying that tanks don't suffer through this if you're not ...
I think all these arguments have been outrageously reductive to anecdotes, to the level of copium, yes.
chilly brook
until all of a sudden someone who has eyes on them finally plays the tank and shows how it actually is through playing the spec 60% optimally
grizzled nova
And that a far more likely explanation than "streamer said so" is "tank is easier to play well with."
chilly brook
I think all these arguments have been outrageously reductive to anecdotes, to th...
bruv
8.0
sick sentinel
if the tier set for Hpriest and a covenant matched up, you could do mega giga hps
chilly brook
prot warrior
grizzled nova
It's 9.2 homie.
mortal brook
meta is fun. s1 took ellesmere 14 weeks into the season to show venthyr hpal was big stonks. Kyrian KA bear was good all sanctum but wasnt 'oh god this needs nerfed' until it got popular a month before it got nuked cuz boomies found out kyrian was good and didnt like that so hit the twitter to make sure it wasnt good.
chilly brook
everyone raved about dh
sick sentinel
i dunno man....
strong forum
Na it's all copium, historical evidence is wrong bro
median tulip
Hpriest also has some weird shit going on like our tier set they will cast spell...
Reducing CDs is HPriests core mechanic. They actually get double bonus from Urh because the CD of both the long CD and the short one that reduces the long one gets the benefit
chilly brook
because guess what? it's not so paper
sick sentinel
people were constantly decline to keys warriors until 8.2
chilly brook
also in 9.0 people said bear was ass defensively
mortal brook
'tankadin being paper' was dps copium cuz if theyre doing good damage, something must be wrong, right?
sick sentinel
Reducing CDs is HPriests core mechanic. They actually get double bonus from Urh ...
they have a few talents that make the 12m cd (3mcd real) into like 2 minutes, you could abused that and solo heal an entire mythic raid boss only cares about raid hps
chilly brook
This is literally how tanking metas work in this game lol
mortal brook
also heck boomies, i was enjoying kyrian bear
cinder storm
I started wow at the start of bfa, was frost mage, pugging my 10s-15s, the reason why I went full pwar on 8.2 was how sturdy and reliant they were on packs at the start of 8.0, literally wouldnt move from packs allowing me to blast, I went pwar solely for the class fantasy originally
sick sentinel
sort of like how SW breaks dungeons for us, if we use it correctly and get it to repeat constantly (urh/set)
chilly brook
but it's ok
us actually showing you how it works including historically is us just huffing copium
strong forum
SL is the epitome of "lemme show you how it's actually done" in terms of what becomes best
median tulip
I just like how AM make SW come up so often, NGL
strong forum
Instead of sticking to 1 thing
chilly brook
It was the same shit in Legion
came into heroic at like 910 on my prot paladin
this guild couldn't believe how I wasn't dying and how I was taking less damage than their actual tank
people are dumb
sick sentinel
quit till 8.0
bought and played on 8.0 launch date haven't quit for good again yet
bfa looked fuckin awesome, so i gave it a try
chilly brook
95% of the time, the concept people have of the ability of a tank spec is shaped by monkeys who never learned how to press their buttons playing that spec
past grove
damnit this makes me wants to go smash some keys
sick sentinel
BFA Blizzard Failed Again
was the joke i made about it
and then look what we get now, SL gegrhhh
cinder storm
at the end of the day, the issue is blizz taking too long to balance classes or doing it poorly
median tulip
I only came back towards the end of BfA, for something to do during the pandemic, and I enjoyed it.
cinder storm
so we have to deal with that
strong forum
95% of the time, the concept people have of the ability of a tank spec is shaped...
I've recently had a discussion with a few dps mains who said that tanks should only do 25%of the dmg they deal rn, only heal 10% of what they heal and be happy with that
median tulip
I will definitely say that Zuldazar is a far far better hub area than Oribos. Even now, Zuldazar feels like a city, and Oribos doesn't and never will
strong forum
Dps mains are in shambles
lilac bloom
does any one know if u switch to another convenant and u want to get reknown fast to 40 by buying something from the vendor.. can they be stack so u max reknown? im thinking going necro for guild mythic
chilly brook
I've recently had a discussion with a few dps mains who said that tanks should o...
tf
chilly brook
Why do DPS care so much about how much damage tanks do
strong forum
That's what tanking means!
median tulip
does any one know if u switch to another convenant and u want to get reknown fas...
No, it puts you at 40 Renown, you have to grind the other 40
sick sentinel
Dps mains are in shambles
if u take away dps only thing he's ever known what to do is the right thing his entire wow life and say okay i do as much dps as you now but i survive raid boss hits i think hes a bit right to be upset but he clearly not hitting all the buttons fast enough
lilac bloom
@median tulip thx good thing i ask
median tulip
does any one know if u switch to another convenant and u want to get reknown fas...
Tips for grinding tho: Do all 3 World bosses, all your Daily Callings, LFR and spam Torghast
wooden radish
👀
sick sentinel
its like playing goalie in hockey
yes it sucks, but someone has to play it and they have to be good
wooden radish
@strong forum link where the 🍿 starts please
sick sentinel
else your team gets fucked
lilac bloom
@median tulip ok will do thx.. but are they repeatable?
median tulip
DPS get salty when you point out that they only get invites for their utility
chilly brook
Tanks doing like 0 damage and only being meat shields is a recipe for killing tanks more than the role already has been @strong forum
mortal brook
I've recently had a discussion with a few dps mains who said that tanks should o...
bro i remember a tank in sanctum who didnt get their 3rd dom item (turns on blood link, 1k+ dps) to give the item to a dps for their 5th dom item (like 100 dps) just cuz the 'tanks arent prio and their damage doesnt matter' is still so strong.
sick sentinel
u just try to outdps him anyways
chilly brook
bro i remember a tank in sanctum who didnt get their 3rd dom item (turns on bloo...
lmfao
median tulip
<@220649471804047360> ok will do thx.. but are they repeatable?
Torghast is spammable, there's a new calling every day, LFR and World Bosses are up weekly
mortal brook
and god forbid the riot if you gave PI to the venthyr tankadin
sick sentinel
and then if you do and he gets mad, you have precendence to leave the group as not an asshole
lilac bloom
@median tulip thx heaps
chilly brook
and god forbid the riot if you gave PI to the venthyr tankadin
I think I should start making the argument that PI goes to necro prot during execute
sick sentinel
u just tell him well u need to hit ur buttons more
mortal brook
I think I should start making the argument that PI goes to necro prot during exe...
bust out the Execute Patchwerk!
strong forum
Tanks doing like 0 damage and only being meat shields is a recipe for killing ta...
Don't tell that to me, I'm a dmg whore who likes to cosplay as a raidboss
ocean yoke
i finally talked my group into getting me into the windfury group, PI soon for sure
mortal brook
when even the lowball shitty windfury charts have pwar slamming
chilly brook
i finally talked my group into getting me into the windfury group, PI soon for s...
if they don't put prot in windfury they're trolling
ocean yoke
thats what i said
chilly brook
unless you have 4 ret paladins
median tulip
I told my group I needed WFT for the defensive benefits of more Rage
chilly brook
not gonna mention arms cuz it's dead
mortal brook
@wooden radish #protection message
ocean yoke
just 1, 4 rets would certainly be an interesting comp tho
sick sentinel
ah yes, ret paladins also do rip huge ass aggro: source i played 2004 ret paladin
mortal brook
pls include how i should feel btw @wooden radish
sick sentinel
you rip HUGE HUGE aggro as ret
dawn canyon
ah yes, ret paladins also do rip huge ass aggro: source i played 2004 ret paladi...
they actually do
wings/toll/wake is pretty bursty
sick sentinel
wings? toll? wake?
dawn canyon
current ret
sick sentinel
what are those, i only know of holy shock and blessing of kings as holy and ret 31 talent point capstones
chilly brook
yeah I dunno, prot warrior feels fun to play on the whole, but there's definitel...
Idk I kinda laugh at the casters in Gambit tbh
median tulip
I honestly don't mind when melee DPS pull threat. I'll have Intervene on them anyway at the start of the fight, and the mob stays right there so it's not an issue. It's worse when a range does it and the mobs go all over the place.
jagged pier
I think I should start making the argument that PI goes to necro prot during exe...
I tried that argument, didnt work
median tulip
Idk I kinda laugh at the casters in Gambit tbh
I tried to do Halls of Atonement on Fortified/Bolstering week. One missed interrupt on those Venthyr casters was really hurting me
cinder storm
before the 10% armor buff and before the wicked bolts were nerfed....I still have ptsd
chilly brook
I tried to do Halls of Atonement on Fortified/Bolstering week. One missed interr...
wicked bolts are a different story
but like
uninterrupted wicked bolts fuck every tank up
¯_(ツ)_/¯
cinder storm
a lot more manageable now that I know you leap, double reflect those
median tulip
The fucking Thrash as well, that was fucking afwul
Fortified Bolstering is the worst week for that place
cinder storm
its the worst week to push, adds hurt more, they stay alive longer and it can be iffy to pull trash to boss in some dungeons
makes the whole dungeon a drag
toxic pewter
finally got codex trinket. should I use it over Phial? I have grown to really like phial trinekt for the strength bonus haha
cinder storm
whats your other trinket?
toxic pewter
blood spattered scale
cinder storm
I'd swap scale for codex
undone verge
wicked bolts are a different story
Wicked bolts haunt my dreams
cinder storm
I run codex/soleah on the 21-23 range, have no issue whatsoever, if anything I'd like to have a phial
toxic pewter
ya I mean the phial is really nice i think
but ive always been told scale is the S trinket
cinder storm
But codex has more value the higher the key
cinder storm
with tier set scale is a bit overkill
undone verge
I like scale tbh I haven’t really tried out a phial/soles build. Is it really that good?
hazy edge
Don't forget all the strength you are losing by running codex over another trinket.
undone verge
Don't forget all the strength you are losing by running codex over another trink...
But I have to have more health than the bdk
urban portal
according to 2 logs, a 262 scale heals for 30 hps less than a 272 codex
so a 272 scale would definitely beat it
26 dos
and thats not accounting for strength and stuff
hazy edge
You're forgetting that the strength from the scale would also increase your IPs
urban portal
yep
thats what im saying
without accounting for strength, codex heals for only 40 hps more while being 10 ilvls up
at 272 scale for sure would heal just as much and then you add primary stats on top of that
undone verge
I don’t think codex competed at all it’s between scale soleh and phial
urban portal
I'd swap scale for codex
.
obviously theres still some value in using double passive
that being said i consistently see codex doing more damage in a 25+
cinder storm
If adds die faster you dont need healing
But codex has more value the higher the key
urban portal
again in a 26, scale heals for more while codex does more damage
toxic pewter
damn this is tough one
cinder storm
So its a trade off, I say more dps
undone verge
Codex scaled higher, prob around the 25 mark is when it gets competitive
toxic pewter
is this one of those 'theres no wrong answer' situations
urban portal
So its a trade off, I say more dps
but we arent taking account of the strength loss
this is just raw logs dps
deft hinge
codex adds to Indomitable though its very small
toxic pewter
Freakin phial just is a nice trinket i cant deny it lmao
That str on it
its just really good
undone verge
Is sack up there with phial? Cause if I remember don’t you need to stack the same target to get the proc? So like good in st
toxic pewter
damn this is tough lmao
lofty widget
Is sack up there with phial? Cause if I remember don’t you need to stack the sam...
with sack you ideally wanna get 1 stack on as many targets as possible, since the number of stacks doesnt affect dmg done
median tulip
Does Revenge apply stacks of Phial/Sack?
lofty widget
both trinkets are like 350-400 dps tho, in m+
lofty widget
Does Revenge apply stacks of Phial/Sack?
it applies to your target,so you need to swap targets
urban portal
Does Revenge apply stacks of Phial/Sack?
everything does
urban portal
So its a trade off, I say more dps
also, simming sense's warrior, the raw strength on scale alone is worth 500 DPS on ST
and its only doing 250 more dps in a dungeon
codex's procs
toxic pewter
thene again if I suck at using scale then perhaps passive trinket is better for me as a shitty player
is there anything to be said about that?
urban portal
the lower keys you go the worse codex is
toxic pewter
Right
cinder storm
the lower keys you go the worse codex is
This
urban portal
so i see literally 0 reason to go codex for you
stuck kite
No reason to use codex before 25 Keys?
urban portal
if you have a scale yeah
undone verge
What’s the best for 21+ range? Soleh+phial?
urban portal
in fact i dont see a reason to go codex until like 27
cinder storm
If your dps are hitting like a wet noodle a 20 can feel like a 25
That can be said for any key level
toxic pewter
so just stick with scale and phial then
urban portal
well your dps being shit doesnt help codex become stronger
unless you are purposely bolstering guys for a harder codex hit
toxic pewter
lmao
cinder storm
Codex also works on hits taken/hit dmg, if packs are alive longer
urban portal
its all % on a ppm
undone verge
‘Gets one shot’ top of the meters tho
toxic pewter
anyone know how phial works when it comes to its dot? if i revenge a group of 4 mobs which mob gets the dot
urban portal
i think its either your target or random
strong forum
rng
urban portal
everything applies it
urban portal
its on a 5 second cd
toxic pewter
interesting
undone verge
Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t it just a chance on hit to apply it
strong forum
no
strong forum
it applies 100% every 5 sec
toxic pewter
it says next melee
urban portal
any source of dmg
you know apparently it was oversimming because it was proccing on dots
it was supposed to be only direct damage
toxic pewter
just tested raager doesnt apply it
urban portal
was like a 30 dps down on sims or something
toxic pewter
melee ability
urban portal
you are telling me heroic throw is melee but not ravager
toxic pewter
heroic throw did it yes
urban portal
thats just wow jank
i know heroic throw applies it for sure cuz of sire
i love heroic throwing sire
toxic pewter
yes it does apply just tested but ravager it does not apparently
toxic pewter
ya no worries was just currious
undone verge
There’s some threshold for like doing 20s on fort and 23+ on tyrants that I can’t seem to break. Things just hit me too hard
chilly brook
Y’all still arguing about scale vs codex
chilly brook
Just go get a raid finder aegis
toxic pewter
Y’all still arguing about scale vs codex
yes do you have any insight
chilly brook
:kekw:
toxic pewter
lol really
chilly brook
No meme
toxic pewter
even raid finder
toxic pewter
wow
urban portal
yeah
scale is usually more HPS
but aegis lets you live pulls that you cant live otherwise
strong forum
for a mythic aegis to beat a 278 scale on 5 targets, you only need to be hit 12 times in 8 seconds
toxic pewter
@chilly brook whats your input on codex vs phial (already have scale)
toxic pewter
@strong forum wat about you
chilly brook
Have to do super high keys for it to be worth
toxic pewter
Ok
undone verge
Codex is for the 26/27 range
chilly brook
It’d be different if we were monks
strong forum
codex is SHIT, the 5% loss of mainstat isnt worth the 5% DR it provides
jagged pier
Codex is no more
toxic pewter
ya the str on phial is just so good
cinder storm
urban portal
sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do
strong forum
mythic rygelon is the niche case of having 20k dtps
cinder storm
I have nothing else to use
toxic pewter
what is the best trinket combo then for a non high keys player
cinder storm
So it works for me
urban portal
OWS phial