protection

[hard vessel]

Nah I miss 15y kick

[strong forum]

but not massively useful

besides the mini interrupt

[chrome falcon]

mass grip was MUCH better pre-target cap

[marsh narwhal]

ye the kick is something i got used pretty quickly but sometimes i do miss the grip

[chrome falcon]

when you could actually stack 20 mobs and aoe blast them down

[amber herald]

shattering throw --> silencing throw 30s cd

cmon blizz do it

[toxic pewter]

quickened sigils better

[hard vessel]

Give us Bloodlust

[toxic pewter]

ya warrior getting bloodlust makes sense

just prot tho

[chrome falcon]

wtf is happening in this mdi btw

are apes just throwing?

[civic torrent]

Druid stack team is trolling

[strong forum]

yes they are

[civic torrent]

The feral is doing 2k dps

[sick sentinel]

4 druid 1 hunter wtf

[strong forum]

they have 0 chance of anything so ofc theyre just memeing

i would too

full warri comp

even the hunter is using bears as pets

[toxic pewter]

what is the optimal prot warrior cpm

[sick sentinel]

prot warrior dps warrior ret nf paladin, enhance shaman and XYZ

[strong forum]

with 4pc necro

around 80+ in raid

70+ in m+

[sick sentinel]

double banner warrior, TG and prot

[toxic pewter]

can i see overall cpm on warcraftlogs or wat

seems to be per spell

[strong forum]

dont look at only yourself

look at entire group/raid

[toxic pewter]

ohhh ok

ty

[strong forum]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/rgpTR7YbXNf2VKzW#fight=23&type=casts

ignore the VDH

[chrome falcon]

wait

fuck

[strong forum]

their consumed souls counts as a spell

theyre in reality much lower than they look

[chrome falcon]

some KR motherfucker beat my dausegne parse by 32 dps

[sick sentinel]

ooohhh okay i see now 4 druid

[lyric geode]

Buff ignore pain, nerf something else to warriors

[sick sentinel]

not so very good

[strong forum]

is his name boost

[chrome falcon]

idk maybe?

boost's name normally shows up as boost

[strong forum]

na its not him

boost fell off + ratio + L + boosted

[chrome falcon]

i cast 1 outburst TC he cast 0

skill gap i'm dogshit

[strong forum]

skill diff

[toxic pewter]

fuk... im only in the mid sixties cpm...

[chrome falcon]

my xymox should be safe for a while though that dude got BLASTED

[toxic pewter]

i think i will start taking cocaine irl

[strong forum]

id advise against it

[toxic pewter]

to help my cpm

Ok

I will get to 70

sober...

[strong forum]

70 cpm is 9.1 cpm btw

[toxic pewter]

i need mechnical keyboard

[strong forum]

highest CPM i had in SOD was 72

[toxic pewter]

will that actually help

[strong forum]

no

[toxic pewter]

ok

[strong forum]

just need to focus more on your rotation

[sick sentinel]

druids wiping like crazy meanwhile noaw just 100%hp and 90% rp

[strong forum]

also maybe adjust your spell queue window

helps a bit

[toxic pewter]

wat that mean

[chrome falcon]

why are 16% of pwarriors on dausegne venthyr

[strong forum]

the spell queue window of wow is 400ms by default

meaning, if you press a spell 0.4sec before the GCD is over, the last pressed spell will get used instantly

[toxic pewter]

right

[strong forum]

so you dont sit afk in the event of you missing the first few milliseconds of the GcD being available

however

the faster the spec, the more likely you are to Q a wrong spell in that window

because of say ping, desync, or just not pressing fast enough

if youre good at pressing buttons and so on the general rule of thumb is adjust your spell queue window 100ms+ your ping

[toxic pewter]

oh I can adjust it?

[strong forum]

so you have less chance of spell qing the wrong spell

[toxic pewter]

Ok let me change it right now

[strong forum]

say, TC instead of SS ( in the event of a proc in the last milliseconds )

[toxic pewter]

right

[chrome falcon]

after they added deva i started playing 0 spell queue holy shit that was bad

[strong forum]

0 spellq is bad

i set mine to 150

[toxic pewter]

Ok

[strong forum]

cuz my ping is between 14 and 29

[chrome falcon]

think mine is like 200 or something but i have like 20 ms these days so i could probably reduce it

[toxic pewter]

so ping has a big relation to this

[strong forum]

yes

the higher your ping, the higher you need to make your spell Q window

[toxic pewter]

right

because more latency

[strong forum]

so you dont miss casts

because it doesnt register your button press fast enough

[toxic pewter]

where can I edit this

[strong forum]

need a script

lemme check

[toxic pewter]

oh my ping is over 40... prob should just leave it at 400ms then

[chrome falcon]

i know naowh is next level but man that bdk damage

[strong forum]

no its 100+ping

[chrome falcon]

really interesting 🙂

[strong forum]

so 200 ping should be more than sufficient

150 if youre confident in your fingers

but dont go below that

thats only for shadowpriests

[toxic pewter]

I see

wait so I have to like edit game files or some crap

can anything bad happen from it

[dawn canyon]

im ping + 100 in spellqueue

so 140

[strong forum]

no you just write it ingame

a /cvarset blabalbla command

[toxic pewter]

oh I see

[civic torrent]

It's in advanced interface options' cvar browser

In search bar type queue

It'll pop up

[strong forum]

To check what your Custom Lag Tolerance value is currently set to, you can paste this line into your chat window in-game: /dump GetCVar("SpellQueueWindow")

To change your Custom Lag Tolerance, paste the following in chat. Replace the # with a number of your choosing (meaning 100 is 100MS, or 300 is 300MS, whatever).

/console SpellQueueWindow #

[toxic pewter]

mine 400

[strong forum]

ya thats the basic

[toxic pewter]

ok its 150 now

LOL interesting I will play around with it now

[strong forum]

this should help immensly with outbursts for example

[toxic pewter]

yes

thank you for this information.

[strong forum]

keep in mind

with this you need to spam more

[toxic pewter]

right

[strong forum]

the actual button presses per minute is easily like 5 times of cpm

minimum 5 times

[toxic pewter]

worse comes to worse I can always revert

might do a random heroic just to test

before i go in cold on a mythic

[strong forum]

its not that impactful

just means you "misspress" less often

[toxic pewter]

could it also mean I could 'mispress' shield wall or some shit in crucial moment

[strong forum]

wellllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

thats off GCD

[toxic pewter]

eerr

true

[strong forum]

spell queue window only affects on GCD

[toxic pewter]

yes

good point

[strong forum]

so, revenge, shield slam, tc, demo shout, banner, ravager, etc

actual rotational spells

[toxic pewter]

I guess the thing I want should be pressed more often

[strong forum]

yes

[toxic pewter]

as long as I am pressing the buttons correctly lmao

at the... right time...

XD

[agile pumice]

If you're used to 400 it might be kinda hard to adapt to 150 straight away

[toxic pewter]

Yeah like just now I was duelign someone

[waxen orbit]

Mars ping

omegalul

[toxic pewter]

My ravager didnt go right away

[strong forum]

with this spellQ window you need to press more than twice as many buttons to not miss miss milliseconds per GCD

btw

[toxic pewter]

I need to spam harder

yes...

I noticed that literally just now

i need to be faster...

need coffee...

[strong forum]

so with 400sqw you needed to press like 3-4 times per second(GCD), with 150 you need to press like 10 times per second(GCD)

[toxic pewter]

crazy

but in theory I will get what I want more often

I just have to have a quick enough mind and physical presses to keep up with the mind

[strong forum]

ye

need that practice

if you need to think about what to press its already over

[toxic pewter]

right

oh is that change character specific or all char

[strong forum]

i think accountwide

[toxic pewter]

Ok

[strong forum]

but it doesnt matter as much on slower classes

well "matter"

[toxic pewter]

right

[sick sentinel]

have we entered weird world yet where some key that was easy is now hard like say mists

like what with happened to AD

[chrome falcon]

they nerfed the only thing that could potentially make mists hard

[strong forum]

uhm

lemme think

tyrannical ToP

is easily the hardest key currently

apart from gambit

Xav on high keys is literally a big fucking wall

cuz he does 1shot levels of group dmg every like 30seconds

[sick sentinel]

dps didn't hit the flag

[strong forum]

flag doesnt matter

when he jumps to the middle

[chrome falcon]

lucky that we fucking own in top but at some point it's kinda like legion where the boss just does too much unavoidable damage

[strong forum]

he does unavoidable group dmg

[chrome falcon]

how is vdh correct in sanguine

[strong forum]

literally ONLY

because of sigil of silence

thats it

thats the absolutely only reason why

[orchid magnet]

I'm new to tanking guys, which mobs do I target with shield slam?

in big pulls

[chrome falcon]

uh

[orchid magnet]

those with lowest threat?

[chrome falcon]

no

[sick sentinel]

dwarf this zero deaths

[chrome falcon]

just hit anything

you have aoe for threat

[strong forum]

anything is fine

but generally the most important target that needs to die

is what you should attack primarily

[chrome falcon]

revenge/ravager are gonna be what gets threat for you, SS is for rage

[sick sentinel]

dwarf team has better dps too, killing boss faster

[orchid magnet]

so if some mobs slip from my threat, do I use mouseover taunt for that?

[strong forum]

well you can ofc SS that target

threat is obv the most important thing

but usually that shouldnt happen that you lose aggro on smth mid pull

[orchid magnet]

happens when whole group pops cooldowns

[chrome falcon]

as long as you're pressing revenge (especially with BSC+reprisal proc) and you're not super undergeared, threat isn't a huge concern atm

[orchid magnet]

1-2 mobs start attacking my teammates

[strong forum]

then you need to look at your own dmg output

cuz threat direcly correlates to dmg output

aka, not enough revenges

and too many IPs

[chrome falcon]

[strong forum]

[orchid magnet]

ok, ty

[chrome falcon]

ravager too, as long as you ravager the start it's very hard to lose threat

[strong forum]

but again, its not wrong to SS different targets you see youre gonna lose threat on smth

and ofc

use taunt early and often

[chrome falcon]

obviously if you have a warlock/DH who are overgeared and just blasting CDs instantly without thinking

you're gonna lose threat

[strong forum]

taunt is a +400% threat mulitplier while the Debuff is active

so use it

[orchid magnet]

I'm supposed to hit those I taunted?

[strong forum]

yes

[sick sentinel]

save giga taunt for when you know you need it for like a big pull or something

[chrome falcon]

yes things that you taunt take WAY more threat

[orchid magnet]

I thought I taunt one mob, and go slam the other mob so that those two now attack me

[chrome falcon]

but again you should worry more about your dps than your threat specifically

[strong forum]

no

if you dont attack into taunt, you might aswell have not taunted

taunt puts you at the top of the aggro list for its duration, if you dont do any dmg during that window

you will lose threat again on the target

[orchid magnet]

aren't aoe skills hit enough for that?

[strong forum]

usually yes

[lyric geode]

This guy knows its shit. My respects

[chrome falcon]

yeah but if you're already losing threat then you're not pressing your aoe enough

specifically revenge

if you're undergeared and REALLY struggling with aoe threat you could play kyrian until your ilvl is higher but eh

[strong forum]

but throwing in a heroic throw (if its out of range) or SS does help alot

heroic throw itself has another 400% multiplier

[orchid magnet]

mostly just talking about that earlier situation, where from a big crowd of mobs 2 start attacking my team

[strong forum]

so during taunt window heroic throw generates 1600% threat

[chrome falcon]

you might not be hitting them with revenj in that case but also remember challenging shout for those emergencies

sometimes i find myself dropping threat if i start a pull with no ravager and no avatar

but challenging covers those rare gaps

[strong forum]

^

also if youre VERY new

i recommedn kyrian

spear of bastion is basically an aoe taunt

[lyric geode]

Kyrian is ez mode.

[strong forum]

if you hit your spears, you literally cant lose aggro

[lyric geode]

Also, Ancient aftershock is so good for mass interrupt. I LOVE IT.

[strong forum]

keep in mind AA only hits 5 targets at a time

so its not good in ultra pulls

[chrome falcon]

this mdi vdh is playing fatescribe trinket? jesus

tank with 2 cheat deaths how miserable is that

[strong forum]

very

[sick sentinel]

POV: you just casted Spear of Bastion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qIfsNPIoqI

[lyric geode]

also, Niya for me is extra survivability. Koryan is for dmg.

[strong forum]

but it is 23 fort inspiring

so there can be shady shit

and its a vdh

so they die if they dont have meta up

[chrome falcon]

fucking sad class

thank god evoker doesn't have a tank spec so maybe blizz can fix their current tanks

[strong forum]

its fine if you play around your weaknesses

but yeah

[lyric geode]

Dh needs buff desperately. Even more than protection warrior.

[strong forum]

cant tank outside of meta

[chrome falcon]

dh just needs a rework

their "mitigation" is

hilariously bad

actually wait lemme change that

[strong forum]

10.0 talent tree will fix everything

[lyric geode]

I still want to keep banner in 10.0

[strong forum]

high chance of that happening

[chrome falcon]

yeah fr give me banner with 3 talent ranks

[lyric geode]

Keeping banner is something interesting in doing m+ runs.

[strong forum]

issue is if Glory is in or not

[chrome falcon]

1 rank gives you banner, 2 rank gives your team banner, 3 rank gives you glory effect

[lyric geode]

Yep.

[strong forum]

main fucked up part of VDH is the still nerfed souls healing

if they fixed that

VDH would look alot better

[chrome falcon]

idk demon spikes is just so bad that it's hard to even build up souls

[strong forum]

it only works rn because they get infinite souls from tierset

[lyric geode]

Also, glory effect shall happen to all members affected by banner. Meaning if you extend your duration. It shall extend to your members as well.

[chrome falcon]

nah

that would never be balanced

in raid you could blanket banner on like 8 people on longer fights

[strong forum]

remove the buff to allies

[chrome falcon]

fuck them dps

[strong forum]

temporarily buffing allies is a shit game to play

offensively*

[chrome falcon]

see: PI

[strong forum]

^

[lyric geode]

No, it is good.

[chrome falcon]

No, it is bad.

[strong forum]

no its unhealthy game design

[lyric geode]

Its like PI

[chrome falcon]

PI is dogshit

Find me literally one priest who doesn't hate PI

I'll wait

[lyric geode]

I would literally play disc priest for PI and utility.

[strong forum]

imagine playing warrior but you have to give avatar to someone else

[lyric geode]

If I didnt play protection warrior.

[chrome falcon]

Every single priest I know

Hates PI

[strong forum]

cuz its better on them than on you

[serene saffron]

I mean I agree but don’t you think PI is worse because you have to sacrifice your own damage? Banner you don’t have to choose.

[lyric geode]

Still, you are useful.

[strong forum]

its cancer because its too strong

[chrome falcon]

Well conman the point is that technically optimal banner usage might involve holding your own banner

[strong forum]

ITS 25 FUCKING %

25!

[chrome falcon]

But I don't want to do that

I want to press my button

[lyric geode]

Your usefulness deosnt negate the loss dmg

[strong forum]

not 10% mastery

its 25% haste

thats too much

it can literally break classes

and elevate their dmg

[serene saffron]

Ah yeah that’s true

[strong forum]

and 340579 classes fight for it

because its so strong

[lyric geode]

Still, not enough for demo locks.

[strong forum]

it was enough to get them nerfed

[chrome falcon]

If people ever argue about PI in my raids I tell them to shut the fuck up like

It's so dumb I don't even want to hear about it

[lyric geode]

We had a priest that got paid to give PI.

[strong forum]

its an ever ongoing argument over who gets the most out of PI

[lyric geode]

I wish I was him.

[strong forum]

cuz its just so strong

[chrome falcon]

Idk why blizz instantly realised how stupid GBoM was in 7.0

But PI has been here this whole expansion

[lyric geode]

No, look

Hunters had a spell in WoD for one patch called aspect of fox.

[chrome falcon]

2 patches

Shit was broken

[lyric geode]

Which makes all castable spells being able to move. Instant nerf.

[chrome falcon]

No you're right 1 patch sorry

[lyric geode]

It was utility.

[strong forum]

it was not just utility

[lyric geode]

Now hunters dont have shit.

[dawn canyon]

it solved blackhand

[lyric geode]

A Bl like 300 other classes.

[strong forum]

being able to move whilst casting is literally a massive dps increase

[dawn canyon]

thats a bit much utility

[lyric geode]

A BL**

[strong forum]

cuz you dont have to stop dps to dodge mechanics

[chrome falcon]

Fox was fucked up stupid broken for sure

[dawn canyon]

fox and run circles around blackhand

[distant crystal]

are we talking about aspecct of the fox?

[strong forum]

🦊

[distant crystal]

it wasn't much of a dps increase for the hunter usually, but huge for everyone else

[lyric geode]

It was good, it gave hunters some unique utility instead of CR or BL.

[strong forum]

thats the point

[distant crystal]

usingn it on butcher right before the knockback

[chrome falcon]

Yeah it also nullified boss mechanics in a way that was unhealthy

[distant crystal]

so everyone could just keep casting

[strong forum]

imagine hungering destroyer with it

or denathrius

GG

[lyric geode]

AMAZING spell. Wish they kept it.

[strong forum]

or sludgefist even

[distant crystal]

Halondrus

[strong forum]

literally insane dps increase

[distant crystal]

just chain foxes all intermission

ez

[chrome falcon]

If they kept if you’d have 4+ hunters in every raid comp

[distant crystal]

it'd probably need a sated equiv

to prevent stacking

[lyric geode]

You are overreacting

It could have a global cd.

[strong forum]

ohno

[lyric geode]

Like Cr

[chrome falcon]

Nope I just raided cutting edge mythic in wod so I know what I’m taking about

[strong forum]

a gcd for 1 person

[chrome falcon]

Fox was extremely broken

[strong forum]

to gain huge raid dps

[distant crystal]

was it even on the gcd

i forget

[lyric geode]

So, there are other utilities like, being able to res in conbat.

[dawn canyon]

nothing gets close to that

[lyric geode]

Haste 30% for 30 sec.

[dawn canyon]

except like gateway

[chrome falcon]

CR is on 3 classes

[lyric geode]

Gates warlock.

[chrome falcon]

BL on 3

[strong forum]

gateway is also pretty broken tbh

[chrome falcon]

If CR and BL were only on 1 class and it was useful to stack them

You’d see huge stacking

[strong forum]

^

this

but since CR is shared raidwide and BL has 10min sated debuff

[dawn canyon]

cr doesnt really matter since a) engi b) dont die????

[strong forum]

theyre balanced

[lyric geode]

Exactly, there is nothing unique in utility except cr or BL. Except roar from druids.

[lyric geode]

This guy plays the game.

[dawn canyon]

even gate has a cd so you dont stack

but fox

no cd (sated style effect)

op effect

[amber herald]

rally is unique? unless you're counting priest buff

[lyric geode]

Make fox a sated style effect.

[strong forum]

ya but theyre defensives

not rly offensive capabilities

[dawn canyon]

rally doesnt increase damage outside a fringe scenario

[amber herald]

oh I see

[strong forum]

defensives are rarely OP

[chrome falcon]

Sure if you could only fox once per fight

[amber herald]

late to the convo

[strong forum]

or fought over

[chrome falcon]

That would probably be balanced enough

That they could keep it

[lyric geode]

Every 2 min

[strong forum]

this was a hypothetical

if you could only use it once per fight

it would be balanced

[dawn canyon]

if you have enough druid roars you can chain them

same for fox

the latter being fucking broken

[lyric geode]

How many hours do you have in this game?

[dawn canyon]

2k im p new

[strong forum]

atleast 7

[lyric geode]

Chaining fox = OP. Chaining roar= meh.

[dawn canyon]

yes

[strong forum]

yes

how do you not understand this

roar you still have to stop attacking to move!

fox = dont have to stop attacking

its that simple

thats literally

IT

[dawn canyon]

mdi desk slandering pwar

[strong forum]

no surprise

[dawn canyon]

"just good in bfa"

oh well

[strong forum]

people who have no idea about it talking shit

[dawn canyon]

nothing new

[strong forum]

what a surprise

[chrome falcon]

There are situations where fox increases your groups dps by like

5000%

Because it’s a movement phase

[lyric geode]

Fox isnt OP because it affected only ranged players and as we know, range players are like babies. No responsibility on mechanics.

[strong forum]

thats not the point

the point is they can just continue attacking

[dawn canyon]

getting the ranged more time to dps because less downtime

[strong forum]

even during knockbacks

[dawn canyon]

is very strong

[strong forum]

forced movement events

movement phases to follow smth

events where they usually do 0 dps

they suddenly do full dps

wanna know why BM is so good on Halondrus?

cuz they can attack while moving

[lyric geode]

Roars are op because it makes melees come to fight sooner.

[strong forum]

and juggling orbs without much trouble

[dawn canyon]

melee inherently doesnt care about movement

if the boss moves with them

thats their gimmick

[strong forum]

which is why melees are superior

fuck ranged

[dawn canyon]

[strong forum]

imagine needing to stop dmg to dodge

[lyric geode]

I played hunter, always slandered BM players. Superior marksmanship chadness

[strong forum]

imagine being unable to spam jump during your rotation

[dawn canyon]

yes but imagine you could move during your steady shot

[lyric geode]

I didn't stopped, I just took the damage like a pro.

[strong forum]

floorpov

[lyric geode]

I can?

[dawn canyon]

whats the channel one called

[strong forum]

aim shot

[dawn canyon]

there u sit and aim

ye

[lyric geode]

Aimed shot.

[dawn canyon]

this shot that shot one shot two shot

[lyric geode]

Hahahaha

The only casting spell of MM

[strong forum]

the one that shot 2 was legion only iirc

[dawn canyon]

[strong forum]

the wind thingy

you also had those weird glaive thingies

[lyric geode]

The legendary ability.

[strong forum]

but taht was instant iirc

also legion only iirc

[lyric geode]

Yy, in MoP i think

Or in Legion? I dont remember

[strong forum]

member when hunter couldnt auto shot when moving

[chrome falcon]

more vdh gaming

[strong forum]

[lyric geode]

The point of this conversation melees> ranged. Except Marksmanship

[strong forum]

theyre all bad matta

[timber slate]

You mean chakram?

[strong forum]

if they were good theyd play BDK

[chrome falcon]

yeah i was gonna say

[strong forum]

ya chakram

[chrome falcon]

bet naowh plays bdk in these keys

[strong forum]

ofc he does

[lyric geode]

Hunter t18 set i think bonus, you had instant aimed shot.

[dawn canyon]

suprisingly lotta dh

[strong forum]

cuz its all bad teams

that cant play BDK well

VDH is alot easier than BDK

to survive and deal mediocre dmg

[lyric geode]

Playing Bdk is like playing basketball, it isnt for everyone.

[strong forum]

ya but this is a tournament

you aint getting anywhere by being mediocre

[lyric geode]

Being a mediocre player is the epiphany of MDI?

[strong forum]

my suspicion again is its VDH cuz theyre less capped than BDK i think

for aggro

BDK heartstrike is capped to 5 targets iirc

so their aggro is spread less evenly

[chrome falcon]

every team runs rogue hunter though

[lyric geode]

Wow, they had all this microdetails.

[dawn canyon]

if that matters

dk was nw

and dos

and vdh sd

[chrome falcon]

the only bdk we've seen is naowh

[strong forum]

for less skilled people it matters

[dawn canyon]

99% sure lepan is gonna bdk

[lyric geode]

I hope we see a protection warrior in ToP or DoS ignoring boss mechanics like a char.

Like a chad***

[dawn canyon]

dos

[strong forum]

not in dos

[dawn canyon]

?

[lofty widget]

good one

[strong forum]

ToP, maybe but doubt it

BDK does too much dmg

a good one*

[lyric geode]

Soulcrusher can be spell reflected right?

[strong forum]

yes

[lofty widget]

deflected*

[lyric geode]

And you can in theory never get it.

[strong forum]

but that doesnt matter for good players

[median tulip]

The magic damage portion can

[chrome falcon]

Sure

But these keys are low relative to what these guys do

[lyric geode]

Ah ok

[strong forum]

surviving isnt an issue

THE ONLY THING

that matters is dps

dps

dps

and VDH aint it chief

[lyric geode]

Ah i see.

[strong forum]

VDH is good in big pulls, but BDK just does like 50-100% more dmg

[chilly brook]

Vengeance is being played

because they dropped havoc

[chrome falcon]

vdh is just so fucking boring and unrewarding to play though i feel bad for the tanks in this mdi

[strong forum]

the 5% buff isnt enough

to justify not playing BDK imo

its only the destro lock

[chilly brook]

it is when you have destro

[chrome falcon]

every team plays hunter+rogue

[strong forum]

na fam

[chilly brook]

5% on a class doing 30k in keys

[strong forum]

5% of 50k isnt gonna beat the 10k dps a bdk would do more over VDH

[chrome falcon]

naowh was pulling like 100k dps in aoe pulls

jailer mace alone probably outdps' chaos brand

[strong forum]

BDK also does 2x the dmg of VDH on bosses

you cant justify that with fucking chaos brand

on 1 destro lock

[chilly brook]

I'm just sayin it's the only reason the dh is being played

[strong forum]

ya but its a bad reason

[chilly brook]

sure

[strong forum]

i know its the intent

but its just

wrong

[chilly brook]

you'd be better off bringing prot for the mastery

[chrome falcon]

do m+ bdks play purg

[chilly brook]

in higher keys yea

[dawn canyon]

assuming naowh doesnt need that

[chrome falcon]

when is prot going to get our cheat death then

[dawn canyon]

copium crutch

[chrome falcon]

i mean it's called last stand

[dawn canyon]

rather would have reflect last full duration

[chrome falcon]

give it a guardian spirit effect

that would be really balanced

[strong forum]

ive not seen a bdk play purg

not a good one

[median tulip]

You mean the extra rage gen button? 🤔

[dawn canyon]

last stand should give reflect perma during its effect

[chrome falcon]

last stand should do something that isn't 100% related to borrowed power or a talent

for something that's not even attached to AM it's a fucking pathetic ability

[strong forum]

35% pick bonestorm

[chilly brook]

the kiting

sheeeesh

[strong forum]

welcome to VDH

bdk wouldnt have to kite

theyd just have it all pulled ontop of the boss

[chilly brook]

parry to victory

[strong forum]

but instead they do slow ass pull

[chilly brook]

70% parry

[strong forum]

isnt it 40?

[chilly brook]

idk

[latent pier]

they have naturally high parry, the buff from rune weapon is 40

[chilly brook]

I saw someone say like 70% with it up

[dawn canyon]

40&

per tooltip

%*

[chilly brook]

I'm just talking overall parry

[latent pier]

IIRC strength buffs their parry

[chilly brook]

not the parry gained from DRW

[latent pier]

gotcha

I've been wanting to play my blood dk, but the fact they are fotm now makes me not want to lol

[chilly brook]

wtf

imagine

using leap to move out of breath

[chrome falcon]

yeah dwarf's tank is

on some weird shit

[chilly brook]

what the actual...

[chrome falcon]

leaping out of breath not even hitting the boss with it

[chilly brook]

just strafe

[chrome falcon]

BRO

HELLO?

i am better than this guy at this boss what the fuck

[chilly brook]

lololol

[dawn canyon]

you shoulda seen their sd

that was clean

i think taza keys will all be a bit messy

[chrome falcon]

i just mean the breath

he got hit by half of them

and leapt out of the other half without even hitting the boss

i'm sure this guy is 10000x better than me at m+ i'm dogshit but that is not how you do that boss

[chilly brook]

ehhhhhh

you don't have to be a good tank to do well in M+

his movement in general is making me cring

[strong forum]

okay i found out why they play VDH

[chrome falcon]

he's stood at max melee range from the dragon

instead of being right in its mouth

[strong forum]

theyre team #12 and #13

[chrome falcon]

makes it harder to turn the boss AND harder to dodge breath

[strong forum]

so none of the good teams

[chrome falcon]

huh

why is 12 vs 13

[lofty widget]

how many teams are in total?

[strong forum]

idk

[lofty widget]

24?

[strong forum]

24 teams total

[chrome falcon]

OH

[strong forum]

apes was #24

[lofty widget]

thats just standard seeding

[chrome falcon]

ok well that explains 12 vs 13 then

thought it was 16

[strong forum]

no standard seeding wouldve been 1 vs 24

then 4 vs 20

then 8 vs 16

[lofty widget]

wasnt it?

[strong forum]

then 12 vs 13

[dawn canyon]

that was echo v ats

[strong forum]

yes

[lofty widget]

echo vs ats

[strong forum]

exactly

[dawn canyon]

suprisingly

echo won

[strong forum]

but we should see 4 vs 20 now

not 12 vs 13

[dawn canyon]

is lepan even up this week

[lofty widget]

oh right

[strong forum]

group B plays next week

group C the week after

[chilly brook]

I like how she's like "this is a strat everyone on live servers should adapt because I see a lot of people dying to stars"

bruh

people die to stars no matter where it's tanked

I've watched plenty of people die to stars in that corner

[lyric geode]

Protection warrior guys to be honest ALWAYS shines in the latest patches of each expansion because of how valuable for them their stats are. So I am not worried.

[chilly brook]

?

lol

[mighty valley]

same with any "bullet hell" mechanic

people complain SO MUCH about ventunax

[chilly brook]

Guy

[mighty valley]

just watch

[chilly brook]

What about Legion

And BFA

[strong forum]

https://i.imgur.com/Y9UeFQo.png

[chilly brook]

where we shined at the start>

[strong forum]

weird way to do seeding

[dawn canyon]

baldy is jb

right?

[strong forum]

ik

yes

[chrome falcon]

we did not shine at the start of BFA

compared to the end

[amber herald]

nagurra is my waifu and you will leave her alone

[chilly brook]

we did

[lyric geode]

On BFA I didn't play, but I heard we shined at the latest expansion

[strong forum]

pwar dominated S2 to S4

cuz of dungeon design and DPS

[mighty valley]

the "x class scales well" idea is pretty outdated at this point

[strong forum]

aswell as safeguard and SR

[chrome falcon]

(and BoM)

[chilly brook]

scaling is a meme

[strong forum]

BOM = dps

[lyric geode]

On legion we were on pair with the other tanks.

On WoD we were good too.

[strong forum]

but also lots of crit blocking

[lyric geode]

On hellfire citadel. Method back then had warrior tanks.

[chilly brook]

in legion we were literally so broken

we got slapped with the nerf bat

so hard

[strong forum]

^

pwar was literally immune to dmg in 7.0

[chrome falcon]

yeah 7.0 pwarr was nuts and then when we got reworked revenge got nerf batted SO fast

[chilly brook]

the idea that it's some sort of buildup to being good

is just wrong

we're either tuned well or we're not

gear rarely has anything to do with it

[chrome falcon]

our ST damage in 7.0 was so fucked

i was like 9th on our first ursoc kill

[lyric geode]

It has to do with haste. As another guy mentioned, we are haste addicted.

[chilly brook]

Naagura is popular because she looks nice and plays decent

[chrome falcon]

not really

[chilly brook]

lmao

[chrome falcon]

not a response to griff

[chilly brook]

we're getting trolled now

[chrome falcon]

naguura's cool

[amber herald]

[dawn canyon]

naguuras commentary during rwf was great

cuz she has rwf experience

she killed first boss of that mop bug tier with method world first at least

[chilly brook]

not saying she doesn't do well

just sometimes the commentary makes me laugh

[dawn canyon]

yup

jb and naguura talking druid during sod rwf was so fucking good

[amber herald]

waifu

[vernal vale]

I miss gag order for grouping casters.

[strong forum]

eh

idk

naguura fell off

she was very poorly informed alot of the time in dungeons

when commentating

saying just outright wrong stuff

[chilly brook]

Like I said

her commentary makes me laugh sometimes

Also there you go nom

BDK/BrM

[chrome falcon]

they need a tank main on commentary

idk what it is but so many dps just don't know what the fuck mobs actually do

[strong forum]

sloot was easily the best commentator

of all time

he ACTUALLY KNEW STUFF

ABOUT DUNGEONS

like PROPER knowledge

and funny af

[chrome falcon]

yep i know it sounds like meme tank elitism but

[chilly brook]

cuz tanks usually tell them what to kick

[sturdy sable]

All the tank mains are competing

[chrome falcon]

dps can absolutely get away with doing high keys without knowing what mobs do

[chilly brook]

I might mess around with BrM again this season

[sturdy sable]

Whats wrong with brew?

[strong forum]

brm not a good pick

[chrome falcon]

whereas tanks need to learn what every mob does within like 2 weeks of xpac launch because it might all be shit that kills you

[strong forum]

BDK is just better....

[lyric geode]

Haha so funny, this is one of the reasons I am tilting as a tank.

[sturdy sable]

Or is it just compared to blood

[chilly brook]

compared to blood

[chrome falcon]

just less damage than bdk

[sturdy sable]

Oh yeah well

[strong forum]

playing anything but BDK in mdi is just wrong

[chrome falcon]

brm's ceiling is making themselves unkillably tanky

bdk's ceiling is doing top dps

one of these is useful in a race

[sturdy sable]

If they dont nerf blood dk

Then theres literally no reason to play the other tank specs other then fun

[chrome falcon]

dwarf is playing triple melee

so the argument for mystic touch is more valid than the argument for chaos brand

but i still don't buy it

[sturdy sable]

5% magic damage does beat blood being top dps lmao

[amber herald]

brew has a cow

[sturdy sable]

Excuse tou

His name is Dave

Angry Dave

[amber herald]

mooo

[strong forum]

shouldve played fury instead of WW

[chilly brook]

bro

these holy priests

lmao

[strong forum]

but lazel doesnt play warri

so WW it is

[sturdy sable]

Id be surprised if blood doesnt get nerfed

But also on the other side of the coin

[chrome falcon]

what's the difference between 5% ap and 5% phys damage

[amber herald]

isn't bdkonly really really OP with the jailer weapon?

[sturdy sable]

They could easily stay like this till 10.0

[chrome falcon]

this might be a dumb question but i honestly don't know

[amber herald]

sorry, bdk

[chilly brook]

pretty sure it's more like fury is just better at 5 target cleave

[chrome falcon]

jailer weapon definitely pushes BDK even further over the edge yes

[sturdy sable]

And tier

[chilly brook]

and better at boss damage

[chrome falcon]

they'd still be extremely strong without it

[urban portal]

they have jailer weapon in mdi

not an issue

[uncut notch]

Can i ask my dumb question too if we're piling on, I remember heroic throw having a silence effect

[dawn canyon]

sloot owns

[chilly brook]

which is what this entire dungeon is

[strong forum]

Surv is mostly magic dmg, rogue has part magic dmg

AP scales all of their attacks

phys doesnt

[dawn canyon]

285 one even

[chrome falcon]

yes mcgquire it's called gag order and i pray daily that we get it back

gave HC throw a cd and attached a silence to it

[uncut notch]

I remember that fondly

it was so good

[urban portal]

for rogues its bshout>chaos brand>touch

[uncut notch]

Fuck mages

[urban portal]

touch is the most worthless raid buff

[chrome falcon]

OH right it's survival hunter

[urban portal]

on average

[chrome falcon]

which is like 70% fire damage lmao

[strong forum]

and serpent sting is poison

[chrome falcon]

doesn't really matter but it's dumb to me that assa and sub are 90% nature/shadow damage

[lyric geode]

Literally worthless spell ever.

[chrome falcon]

stab a dude with a knife that's physical damage sorry blizzard

[urban portal]

shadow is cool

[strong forum]

serpent sting is not worthless

lol

its a big part of their dmg

[chrome falcon]

the fact that sub rogues 1 shot me in 1 combo is fucking stupid

[urban portal]

grouping lightning and poison as nature isnt cool

[chrome falcon]

just because my armour is worthless vs them

[strong forum]

serpent sting is like 2k dps for surv hunter

i wouldnt call that worthless

[chrome falcon]

some shadow damage is fine but 90%+ negates what should be a classic rogue weakness

[urban portal]

they also have 35% armor pen

find weakness

[lyric geode]

Ah my bad. i mean for MM

[urban portal]

wouldnt matter much anyways

[urban portal]

mm doesnt even get serpents sting

[strong forum]

ya for MM sure

[urban portal]

its a leggo that they run

and its just free damage

that happens to sim the highest

[strong forum]

literally over 90% magic dmg

[lyric geode]

Imagine your other leggo are so shit that giving a free serpent string is an upgrade

[urban portal]

i mean

when 4 set gives you infinite aimed shot

the serpents sting becomes quite good

[lyric geode]

What does set gives?

[strong forum]

https://i.imgur.com/Af1VfRc.png

[urban portal]

a lot of aimed shot

[chrome falcon]

foritfied Xav knocking rogue from 100 to 25%

[strong forum]

why are all top surv hunters chinese

[chrome falcon]

jessus

[strong forum]

:suspicious:

[strong forum]

wait till you see a +27 tyr

[urban portal]

also no shot you would take a brew in top right

when blood has control undead

which is just bis

[strong forum]

that literally knocks you down to 4k hp

with defensives up

and priest buff

[jade socket]

Serpent sting barely matters for survival and mm doesn’t play that lego with 4 set

[urban portal]

o shit

vil

hi vil

[strong forum]

doesnt matter no, but its there!

[jade socket]

Def not 2k dps

And does like nothing on aoe

[strong forum]

(on LoD it is )

[jade socket]

ya wonder why

[urban portal]

its 6% of their damage in a sim on st and interacts with bombs

[jade socket]

Almost like you are doing 30k

[strong forum]

🤫

[urban portal]

isnt there some shit with green bombs

and sting

[jade socket]

That doesn’t do much either

[chrome falcon]

why is this fury playing NF

isn't kyrian better in uncapped

[chrome falcon]

or uh

in big pulls*

[strong forum]

its Top

[uncut notch]

Which one of you is this

own up

[strong forum]

there are no big pulls

[lyric geode]

Exactly

[dawn canyon]

meatwing

[lyric geode]

nF is basically a free interrupt.

[chrome falcon]

eh i guess

[dawn canyon]

you can go a bit larger

[strong forum]

2 pulls out of the entire dungeon that are over 5 targets dont rly count my man

[lyric geode]

Congrats you pulled one mob more.

[dawn canyon]

yea its still not dos pulls

[urban portal]

theres like 2 huge pulls period

[oblique garnet]

Kyrian would still be ahead for fury

But then again it doesnt really matter

[strong forum]

kyrian owns

[lyric geode]

Guys, relax. At least he doesnt play kyrian with sanguine.

[oblique garnet]

They are close to each other in terms of damage in m+

NF just more likely to get you killed

[lyric geode]

Nf is really good for burst phase dmg.

Especially with Koryan

[dawn canyon]

hes not korayn

hes dw

[lyric geode]

WHAT?

You joking?

[strong forum]

korayn is only good if you can frequently get access to new targets

[dawn canyon]

korayn in a 23 top

[strong forum]

for bosses DW is better

dunno how good niya is

[lyric geode]

What a joke

Niya is the best for ST.

[urban portal]

its not

[oblique garnet]

DW is fine for m+ if you want more boss damage

[urban portal]

but ok

[dawn canyon]

he knows something we dont

[strong forum]

idk shit about NF

[urban portal]

dreamweaver is better in st

[oblique garnet]

^

[urban portal]

its just that

[strong forum]

but DW is good cuz haste

[lyric geode]

But niya is better than DW.

[urban portal]

do you wanna stand in cringe puddle

[oblique garnet]

No its not

[urban portal]

its not

[urban portal]

this is the only question you ask

[lyric geode]

In ST phases?

[oblique garnet]

Nop

[urban portal]

when you play dream

is the 100-200 dps up worth it to stand in puddle

[oblique garnet]

If you can stand in fields dw beats niya in all situations

[strong forum]

play anima field emitter + DW

[urban portal]

im fairly sure theres no spec that has niya over dream

[strong forum]

enjoy the pain

[urban portal]

the only question is how much more is dream

[lyric geode]

Exactly!!!

[urban portal]

for enh its only 60 dps so they go niya

[oblique garnet]

Huh?

[chrome falcon]

when dps tell me i'm moving them out of their dw flowers

[oblique garnet]

Wrong

[chrome falcon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy3vMD-CgNY&ab_channel=Jehtt

[oblique garnet]

Enha plays DW

[urban portal]

at least for my friends char in 9.1

they all played niya when dream simmed 60 dps better or so

[oblique garnet]

Fields is literally their biggest cd

[urban portal]

havent kept up

[mighty valley]

i've been playing fire mage with dw + rune of power + rygelon trinket, ultimate circle gaming

[urban portal]

was a long time ago

[chrome falcon]

my enhance in raid DEFINITELY plays DW

he reminds me every time i have to reposition anything 🙂

[amber herald]

his fault for playing a dead spec

[lyric geode]

Guys, I was playing in LFR on raids just to take away all the mobs away from resonating arrow, and wild spirits.

[urban portal]

yeah it changed in .1 and .2

[chrome falcon]

enhance isn't dead enhance is fucking cranking rn

[strong forum]

enha is literally the best shaman spec in the game rn

[urban portal]

if you look at sanctum every enh played niya

[strong forum]

ya but sanctum aint 9.2

lol

[urban portal]

ye

[dawn canyon]

enha is the best melee

[urban portal]

but dream simmed better

[dawn canyon]

:)

[urban portal]

for everyone back then

[chrome falcon]

with the right melee comp enhance will be your highest overall dps thanks to wft

[urban portal]

just less better than it is now

[oblique garnet]

Feels like it was but yeah

[strong forum]

tier changes alot of thing m8

[strong forum]

tru

[urban portal]

prob went from a 60 dps up to 500 dps

so then its worth

[mighty valley]

enhance is crushing AND brings wf

[urban portal]

if its a marginal gain then you wouldnt play dream

[oblique garnet]

Enha is dumb rn

Demo warlock level of dumb

[sturdy sable]

My entire raid bitches and moans whenever i have to reposition anything

Like maybe im moving for a reason?

[lyric geode]

Wow, i get 500 dps more, lets get cancer by standing on different spots so my dmg doesnt go to 0