Nah only eu guilds pay now
#protection
oblique garnet
Kinda have to when you dont have same amount of fans supporting as echo or method does
Since their streamers are alot smaller
jagged pier
ppl still support methooooooooood?
oblique garnet
Yeah
jagged pier
i just want a good race i usually have a screnn with max's steam and screnn with scripe's
and leave it at that tbh
oblique garnet
Limit screen on one screen grind on the other 
oblique garnet
Wdym
What are they then
I know they arent complexity
Anymore
Pretty sure the guild is still called Limit
jagged pier
i thought they changed their whole anme to something because of the complexity thing
blazing condor
I prefer watchin 
In the wf race
But if echo is in the lead i’d obv watch them
I was there for the sylv kill 
oblique garnet
Why watch when you can race 
jagged pier
because im not good enough
also dont have the time like i could take that time off
blazing condor
You gotta pump numbers in 15 mots
sick sentinel
rank 6 legendary white item price should crash with the 9.2 right
oblique garnet
Nop
sick sentinel
new ranks tho
sick sentinel
yeah, i know it's not a smart idea but i feel like making whole bunch of the dps spec ones for this guy or another
mellow bridge
r6 price will go down later on in the patch
but probably be higher right at the start when people reroll and make new leggos
lime urchin
blazing condor
Honestly
Effects are the same anyway
No scaling there
Would be cool if it did tho
Max rank seismic casts 2x revenj
sweet summit
ty goodstuffle
autumn pendant
ask them to make DT baseline
mellow bridge
there is a lot of tank stuff that should be made baseline
plush tendon
Yea, prot needs a rethink in talents
a good talent row is one where you are switching fairly regularly to fit a encounter/type of content/ease of use
and there are just way too many 'dead' talent rows or talents
Also weird to have AM on the same row as HR and Bolster; it should be move or made baseline and add in another SB uptime talent
plush tendon
BFA talents were bad
but the talent build we did have was broken (and fun to play with the feedback loop) so it was all good
and it was fun to press clap over and over again
sick sentinel
devestator, reprisal, indom baseline. Pwar saved
sick sentinel
I do like IV, i'd almost always take it if no indom same line
chilly brook
BFA talents were bad
No
plush tendon
No change in talents is bad design
at least, imo
not saying what we used was bad, but in their totality, pretty bad
chilly brook
How often do you swap now? Oh boy I swapped from BV to ravager and the only reason BSC became popular is because of the adjustment to reprisal
plush tendon
Now is pretty bad too
chilly brook
BFA talents tree was far better than what we have now
The reshuffle was horrid
So were the talent nerfs
plush tendon
I can agree with that... if they gave me my BFA talent set up now.... id be pretty stoked
mighty valley
I just don't think either version is very fun tbh
gimme a minute, i need to click the aoe talent for the aoe fight
interesting decision making!!!
dawn canyon
if they did healer talent changes they will also for tanks 
mighty valley
talents would be more interesting if they were more about tools than output and also if you were MORE restricted in when you can switch, so you don't just have the right tool for every job
but damage is the only exciting popular thing people like to look at, so
i dunno, they've never really hit the goal of "player expression" really
chilly brook
I just think the game would be better without the talent system tbh
As dumb as that sounds
Talent trees were awesome, these? Just feel like they’re binary choices and also in general just kinda feels crappy to lose out on something like double time just because you need a single target stun
blazing condor
also adds extra layers to new players
chilly brook
Playing FFXIV has really kinda challenged a lot of what I thought was needed for good class design etc
stark sage
i dont mind the current talent system for dps,
prot's talents feel really locked in
chilly brook
It’s nice just having everything available, no weird “choices”
Not handicapping yourself to “specialize”
jagged pier
There should be a ST talent setup and cleave setup and an ape setup in talents
Change my mind
stark sage
There should be a ST talent setup and cleave setup and an ape setup in talents
i think fury's bladestorm/dragon roar/ meat cleaver row is pretty ideal
all affect your aoe, just in different niches
chilly brook
Tbh I disagree, it kinda feels like ass knowing you’re taking significant hits in one area just to make another bearable
Like aff, in keys, you literally do less damage than the holy paladin on bosses
Sure your aoe profile is nice
stark sage
i dont think there's anything inherently wrong with trade offs
chilly brook
I wouldn’t say there is either
But also there’s only benefits to just having a class design fully available for you to use at anytime
I don’t think the WoW or really MMO class design in general is deep enough to warrant trade offs
stark sage
well i'd agree that aff in your example is a bit extreme
a pure dps shouldnt be losing to a tank in ST even if they're built for aoe
but aff losing to other DPS in ST because they built for aoe is fine
chilly brook
The only time I’ve felt like trade offs have felt warranted in mmos is when they have fully fledged talent trees
Like RIFT
stark sage
i never tried rift, but i've heard the class system had huge variability in performance because there was so much customization
chilly brook
Definitely did
stark sage
which eventually leads down the path of cookie cutter builds
stark sage
they do, but when your options are limited to say 3 per talent tier, the variability is mitigated to an extent
and in single player games its a non issue, since you if you wanted to make a meme build for fun you aren't inting to your fellow players
chilly brook
I just view it as if you want to give trade offs then there needs to be more than 3-6 binary choices
Otherwise it’s not a choice
Maybe I’d be happy with more utility things replacing the current power based talents
stark sage
sure, its more of a decision if you think or just a trip to icy veins if you dont
and i agree with your point that in a game like ff14 where customization is limited leads to healthier class design, problem is choice helps shake things up
my favorite part of wow's class design is the iterative adjustments or new effects like tier that make a new build viable that has a somewhat unique playstyle but still familiar to the base class
blazing condor
There should be a ST talent setup and cleave setup and an ape setup in talents
/ 
/ 🐵
brittle owl
stark sage
and i certainly dont think wow can ever head into the direction of significantly more customization. more likely it moves towards less
big part of it is log culture, and the general raid design being built around high end play
chilly brook
I’d agree I’d imagine we get less customization as time goes on
Partially because I think they’ll eventually realize they suck at balancing talent rows
stark sage
it do be like that sometimes
i think tanks get it worse tho
like how do you design a defensive row around niches
chilly brook
i think tanks get it worse tho
like how do you design a defensive row around nic...
Paladin is the only one who has done that well tbh
tropic linden
i rlly like the idea that the leggo you use makes you change talents
And if another leggo is 5% less optimal, i would be fine using it if it was more my playstyle.
The problem is the big differences between leggo.
stark sage
tbh 5% is a pretty big difference by community standards
sick sentinel
Even single player rpgs
even more so, because why would you gimp your self in a single player game
modern brook
Here's the secret dude
sick sentinel
i can do more damage or i can do even more damage with no downsides, im only guy playing game... hmmm
modern brook
Asymmetric design is inherently imbalanced Blizzard hasn't gotten better or worse about balancing it the community is just more sensitive to it due to an increase in availbility and usability of tools that make these imbalances evident and the growing perception that video games are something that provides merit when taken seriously
chilly brook
even more so, because why would you gimp your self in a single player game
Eh no, it’s less so in single player/traditional rpgs
sick sentinel
any time i go look up a walkthrough of some retro rpg it is "YOU MUST GO IN THIS ROOM AND TALK TO THE KING OR U CAN'T GET THE SWORD LATER"
modern brook
Imagine not talking to the king honestly
sick sentinel
well, they ar super anal about you have to do this room and have to have killed this boss etc
this is the best way to play can't play any other
stark sage
Asymmetric design is inherently imbalanced Blizzard hasn't gotten better or wors...
i think asymmetric design is perfectly okay, i think the problem lies where the dev's create something that's inherently unbalanced, like talents for instance. and the players shake out the optimal playstyles and unless something is 'broken' they're not likely to make any adjustments to account for the lack of customization
which circles back to griff's point that they should just remove these customizations and focus their efforts into creating better design
chilly brook
well, they ar super anal about you have to do this room and have to have killed ...
Yes there are meta guides, but people play the way they want to play because of fantasy reasons even if it means they play a less powerful character to do so
And there’s no social pressure to play a certain way
modern brook
i think asymmetric design is perfectly okay, i think the problem lies where the ...
Don't get me wrong I'm not tryna imply asymmetric design is bad, just that the issue with "best option" will be persistent no matter wha5
The question is at what scale
blazing condor
only real social pressure is if you're part of a bigger group where everyone but you want to push harder content
and min max
chilly brook
You don’t look at single player games the same way
stark sage
any time i go look up a walkthrough of some retro rpg it is "YOU MUST GO IN THIS...
a good amount of players are natural optimizers, it makes sense that optimal play gets shared
but its not a problem for single player games, because you dont have other players dictating to you the optimal methods
modern brook
Like if you remove/bake talents into base kits that's great and all but x class will still do more over y class In a Given situation
dawn canyon
#nerfavengershield
The solution isnt to completely fuck another class
chilly brook
When was the last time you got rewarded for clearing a dungeon in an rpg in the20 minutes as opposed to 35?
modern brook
Or z class has access to this raid utility that x class doesn't which makes it mandatory for a given e counter
blazing condor
its tough to balance it without either: giving you illusion of choice, or, making just one playstyle op
stark sage
Like if you remove/bake talents into base kits that's great and all but x class ...
oh for sure, and i think the current scale is functional
there's enough class diversity that people are okay with playing their favorite spec even if its behind the optimal choice
sick sentinel
its just sorta like, if you have a group full of magic ppl, druid tank, priest healer, warlock, mage, DH melee your group should just have all the magic buffs that you'd want
melee too, any melee comp you'd put together would somehow have what you need
stark sage
When was the last time you got rewarded for clearing a dungeon in an rpg in the2...
i think this is an important reason why wow's playerbase is so obsessed with optimization, the most rewarding content is often tuned on a razor's edge. where every 5% is meaningful
chilly brook
i think this is an important reason why wow's playerbase is so obsessed with opt...
Yep, which is a stark contrast to single player content and even old wow content
stark sage
yeah, like even now where its basically free to outgear mythic content, you have guilds struggling to clear the middle bosses
sick sentinel
so like without changing any damage numbers or buff/debuff durations/effects, how could you raise 20% KSM to say 50% of players
blazing condor
first things first there'd have to be a reason for the general playerbase to get KSM
if rio(now mythic score) wasn't a thing most people would never push above 15s for weekly vault
base 15s will get you KSM but most people don't really have a reason to get maxed 252s in vault either
for someone who doesn't plan on progressing raids/dgs/pvp there's no real reason to grind for ilvl
which applies to a big part of the playerbase
stark sage
ilvl existing is a reason to grind it up, numbers go up dopamine goes up
but this is basically unpacking why wow is not a great RPG, its more of an action rpg mmo
chilly brook
yeah, like even now where its basically free to outgear mythic content, you have...
Honestly one of the things that bothers me about the multiple raid difficulties and what it is that it has furthered the divide and pushed people to be more optimization minded. It also helps drive animosity between players imho because it exasperates the mistakes that mechanically worse players make (the ones that always stick around in the group)
blazing condor
yeah ilvl is really the only pulling point in wow for the more commited players
numbers go up > you get better > you can do better stuff
but a lot of people don't really care for it
stark sage
its an inherent piece of the machine, you can't remove it
blazing condor
many casuals just like doing the campaign and doing dailies for achievements/mounts ive found
this was in response to the whole "up the playerbase to KSM" thing
mighty valley
i agree with griff except with the part about old talent trees being awesome, they were cool when the core of the game was the leveling experience for most people but they were pretty bad when the game became endgame-focused
blazing condor
im not saying remove ilvl :p
chilly brook
i agree with griff except with the part about old talent trees being awesome, th...
High praise considering I usually have all the weird hot takes
mighty valley
yeah lmao we often don't see eye to eye, but i don't honestly see the current talent system doing enough for all the annoyance it causes
but they can't just remove it, and it would also be a ton of work to think of a good overhaul, so. it's probably what we got for a good while
chilly brook
Ye*
sick sentinel
what if jailer dropped some super duper legendary 2h weapon heroic and mythic
blazing condor
we in tbc now
sick sentinel
he drops a giant 2 hand mace does some smash effect
blazing condor
"Use: Smash!"
mighty valley
that's what everyone's saying. fury has so many buttons. just a million buttons
blazing condor
yeah like bloodthirst
mighty valley
including slam
mighty valley
a button they definitely press
sick sentinel
why does fury have SB and SS
blazing condor
its baseline for warriors
or maybe its not idk
but i know arms have IP and shit like that as well
its not spec-specific
mighty valley
i dunno, always felt like caving to players who felt mad about pruning and wanted more buttons they never use back in their spellbook
blazing condor
i gotta believe in myself more 
sick sentinel
slam and SS
sick sentinel
yeah i know i been playing fury for a little bit
sick sentinel
i use norgranons and then use it to free cast slams (fake news)
5head
i don't particularly enjoy the playstyle but its easy enough, minimal buttons, monkey brain spec, seems to always be good in raids
stark sage
just dont keybind it 4hedd
agile pumice
doesnt fury slam do less damage than ww
sick sentinel
it does 90 less damage than WW
hardy viper
Can we expect warriors to become the strongest in pure dmg tankwise? monks and palas maybe aswell?
chilly brook
Can we expect warriors to become the strongest in pure dmg tankwise? monks and p...
No lol
agile pumice
fury tank slam strats
chilly brook
We’re not going to skyrocket from fighting for last place to taking top damage
chilly brook
fury tank slam strats
I think the only time there was a strat for using slam as fury it was prepatch for SL when you could benefit from the slam Azerite power
stark sage
also i think you can still get the slam power for torg
dawn canyon
that's what everyone's saying. fury has so many buttons. just a million buttons
bt rb exe ww ramp + 3 cds and charge/leap
very hard
agile pumice
also i think you can still get the slam power for torg
i dont think ive ever seen it
stark sage
dang
teal swift
Morning friends. 
chilly brook
i'm the LFR terrorist now
You’d have to do damage to begin with for that to be an atrocity
teal swift
I'm super nauseated today
somber sky
Morning friends. <:yuzu:932562023240335380>
gm 
sick sentinel
might do damage, probably not
urban portal
i dont think ive ever seen it
Yeah you can, the slam power for breaking vases?
That one's actually good on fury
agile pumice
i swear i havent seen that since i stopped doing torghast in prot
urban portal
Since its not a part of your rotation for fury
You can stack it huge
And one shot a boss
sick sentinel
im trying to figure out what a "bloodbath" ability is or where it came from
agile pumice
reckless abandon bloodthirst
mighty valley
it feels like they were trying to call back to the vanilla-tbc days when dps warriors felt cool that they could weapon swap in emergencies to taunt a boss and survive, so gave them some of those tools back. problem is those situations mostly came up because everyone was extremely bad at the game
sick sentinel
i don't understand
mighty valley
maybe check fury guides if you don't know what recklessness is lol
chilly brook
it feels like they were trying to call back to the vanilla-tbc days when dps war...
Technically it does have use still but it doesn’t do anything better than taunt dbts does
Cuz why block when you can just parry and lose no damage
mighty valley
yeah
also back then number of tanks needed varied wildly, and now it's just two every time
so "please tank the first add in this encounter for a bit" isn't at all a thing any more
chilly brook
I could see it being used on tenderize adds in NW if your tank needs help
But the thing that really kills it is you lose a gcd to swap don’t you?
mighty valley
I think so, haven't done weapon swaps in a while
I should be doing it on my monk for spear buff but I'm lazy
waxen orbit
I could see it being used on tenderize adds in NW if your tank needs help
Yeah that's pretty much the primary use
waxen orbit
But the thing that really kills it is you lose a gcd to swap don’t you?
It's worth tbh, one GCD shouldn't truck your DPS
chilly brook
It's worth tbh, one GCD shouldn't truck your DPS
It just feels awful
mighty valley
it's just cooler when it's a more defined tool like DBTS, rather than "uhhhhhhhh spend 60000 rage on an ignore pain and put on a shield and a DR and tank healer mana for a few seconds"
waxen orbit
Though I'm somewhat of a sucker for helping in that regard
I like having shit in the toolkit when I alt as DPS that helps tanks
waxen orbit
it's just cooler when it's a more defined tool like DBTS, rather than "uhhhhhhhh...
Fair, though you gotta have a cost to it
mighty valley
also players used to be more ok with scrappier groups struggling through content, everyone wants to execute on a flawless plan now and rage at people who slip up
i'm generalizing obviously, but you know
waxen orbit
Those people existed back then too; you may not have interacted with them, but they were a sizable community
My dad grinded for grand marshal and he's got fucking war stories to rival the toxicity of today
People just notice the toxicity more because player skill has risen on average
mighty valley
yeah I was mostly just on the raiding side, where 40 was such a stupid number of people to get that you just had to make do with whoever and hope they were at least 50% awake
and you lived or died by the core of the raid team scrapping it out with all the tools they had
waxen orbit
I do agree that toxicity has risen more, but I'd chalk that up more to a societal and philosophical development than anything exclusively related to World of Warcraft lol
But that treads into deeper topics that I'm unsure are fit for a class discord
mighty valley
i think it's just a normal pattern with established games, plus the social infrastructure around it has changed a lot
anyway yeah, getting philosophical
tldr there were upsides to wow/mmos in general being big and weird and unknown that we're not ever gonna get back tbh
chilly brook
Well again I think it comes down to tuning and content design
modern brook
But that treads into deeper topics that I'm unsure are fit for a class discord
Nothing is unfit for #protection
As long as the mods stay sleepin
ionic fern
👀;
mighty valley
DAE heavy repercussions???????? what legendary should i use?????
teal swift
@ionic fern 
waxen orbit
Well again I think it comes down to tuning and content design
That too. When you have timed content, people are going to want to crank out content in as fast as possible within that timer, which, while fun and something that I enjoy, definitely encourages an obsession with perfect execution for optimal time (of course referring to M+)
chilly brook
You have a “toxic” side to FF but it’s much less accepted because the content is designed in a way that, outside of the actual hard content for that small portion of players, you can complete it even with idiots who don’t know what they’re doing
WoW is not designed like that outside of LFR
teal swift
Remove LFR
mighty valley
i think they genuinely regret LFR tbh but tough to put rabbit back in the hat
modern brook
You have a “toxic” side to FF but it’s much less accepted because the content is...
Being toxic in ff14 is like being toxic in animal crossing
chilly brook
Being toxic in ff14 is like being toxic in animal crossing
Not sure what that means
fresh umbra
quick legendary question, with tier coming back next patch, does it make sense to put Reprisal on boots now?
teal swift
Being toxic in ff14 is like being toxic in animal crossing
Bro, animal crossing is serious.
chilly brook
I almost got shitty with a tank in it the other day because he didn’t listen to me several times when I told him to pull to the end of the platform and we kept wiping because of it
waxen orbit
quick legendary question, with tier coming back next patch, does it make sense t...
No
Maximize stats on legs
chilly brook
quick legendary question, with tier coming back next patch, does it make sense t...
No point worrying about it at the moment tbh
modern brook
Not sure what that means
How u gunna be mean in house owning simulations
Literally the fantasy is being able to afford player housing
fresh umbra
just came back from a break and working on my first lego, so I didn't want to waste it
chilly brook
How u gunna be mean in house owning simulations
SMH you gotta be able to find an open plot first
waxen orbit
I almost got shitty with a tank in it the other day because he didn’t listen to ...
I once told an off tank that was getting pissy with me that a trained chimp could fulfill the position of raid tanking this tier. He left the discord and the guild 
modern brook
The rest of the game is boring garbage dog stink
And anyone who says otherwise is coping cause they quit wow
Like wow is trash don't get me wrong
Still the best option on the market
fresh umbra
@waxen orbit @chilly brook Thanks for the assist
chilly brook
And anyone who says otherwise is coping cause they quit wow
Cope more with echo and limit not even making top 20 in RWF in FF
chilly brook
The rest of the game is boring garbage dog stink
I’ll respect your opinion even if I disagree with it
WoW has a special quality though when it comes to the feel of combat and classes
waxen orbit
Gotta love that rich Alliance LFG
chilly brook
Alliance LFG is so bad
waxen orbit
It's awful
modern brook
Alliance players keke
chilly brook
Glad I basically threw in the towel with my guild
Means I can stop logging in on alliance
chilly brook
Umm
waxen orbit
Been Alliance for 10 years so swapping would feel dirty
Too used to it at this point idk
chilly brook
Alliance racials are almost all better than horde?
waxen orbit
Mechagnome and DID got good racials but orc, troll, HMT, ztroll, vulpera?
That shit bussin
stark sage
NE racial is gachi
chilly brook
Zandalari racials are meh
waxen orbit
Crit racial though dude
waxen orbit
NE racial is gachi
Meld do be pretty pog
stark sage
imagine caring about dps racials
chilly brook
Void elf racial is amazing for casters
stark sage
yeah vulp is epic
chilly brook
Human is solid
stark sage
but that's basically it
waxen orbit
Dwarf/DID/NE are all the gooood racials. Horde just has..Vulpera tbh.
Troll haste would like a word
chilly brook
Just here’s extra stats
ionic fern
^
chilly brook
Again Void Elf teleport is nasty
sick sentinel
regenerating zanda trolls is good for healers
autumn pendant
Tauren to show dominance
waxen orbit
regenerating zanda trolls is good for healers
Good for healers? Good for everyone tfym
Straight up a free mobile regen
stark sage
tauren have the best racial
being giant refrigerator men
waxen orbit
Best players were Taurens
MANY WHELPS NOW HANDLE IT
waxen orbit
Dwarves have the same chad energy as tauren
ionic fern
Meld requiires cordination to be good
waxen orbit
Dwarves have the same chad energy as tauren
That being said, dwarf players are almost always
- Bros
or - Toxic shitstains
There's no in-between
ionic fern
Arcane torrent is just when evbert
chilly brook
Meld requiires cordination to be good
Not really
You can use it to negate mechanics in keys
It’s not all about skips
waxen orbit
Not really
I beg to differ, I've had meld skips get fucking annihilated by pugs
Which you can chalk up to coordination
ionic fern
You can use it to negate mechanics in keys
Yes, and that requires cordinations and people being ghood.
I was alliance for my majority of time
We had a ton of NE's
waxen orbit
Always wanna step back if tanks are gonna meld
waxen orbit
Otherwise you get fucking decked in the mouth
Before tank unmelds and gets aggro
I was nelf for like 3 months in BFA
Could do some cool tricks in M+
Though I was an 800 IO andy back then at my peak
The expansion I finally master my class is the one where the game hits its lowest trench, tragic
chilly brook
The expansion I finally master my class is the one where the game hits its lowes...
Big unfortunate
teal swift
@waxen orbit i managed to ksm s4
Made me happy
And then my team fell apart
And I managed to ksm on Jan s1 shadowlands
Then they nerfed all the dungeons
😒
jagged pier
The one night in weeks prot channel pops off and im busy
jagged pier
🤗
chilly brook
The one night in weeks prot channel pops off and im busy <:sadge:820202363359854...
is ok we still here for u qt
jagged pier
teal swift
Always!
safe thistle
DID is the only reason i would go alliance ! 😛
teal swift
Disassociative identity disorder?
strong forum
dorf is love
teal swift
Oh
strong forum
dorf is life
teal swift
Dark iron dwarf
safe thistle
i wish i had a fiery beard irl
sick sentinel
okay, i'm putting it off because i know the dratnos route for NW is shit
i have to change the route
teal swift
You need tier 2 Patreon
Is this accurate
It'd be top tier memes
The only reason I use shatnos routes
Is because everyone knows them
blazing condor
i realized like 2 weeks into S1 SL that dratons' routes were garbo
however they usually do the trick if you just do 10-15s
no need to have a convoluted route
they were definitely worse in s1 than they are now as well considering pride timings aren't a thing
blazing condor
weird route
convoluted as well for no reason
skip 2nd goliath and kills nar'zudah instead
kinda weird
not really any effective pulls either tbh
sick sentinel
which number for the pulls?
blazing condor
first pull is fine
second pull is fine
third is a bit weird because you circle back around? no problem though but might as well take pull 5 after pull 3 and then take pull 4
pull 7 is fine, make sure you use goliath orb
pull 9 should just be skipped imo alltogether - i never pull nar'zudah in my routes
rest is fine but i'd take 2nd goliath orbs
teal swift
first pull is fine
second pull is fine
third is a bit weird because you circle b...
Narz is one of the most efficient pulls
blazing condor
and pull pull 12/13 together
blazing condor
i just find it to be very excessive for no real reason
and easy to go wrong in pugs
teal swift
Yeah, pugs are idiots
blazing condor
in a coordinated high skill group sure, thats what most groups do
teal swift
They die to narz
blazing condor
but in a pug you oughta just skip it
teal swift
True
blazing condor
this is my pug route
works wonders
easy +2
but you don't need to min/max routes that much really just pull what you're comfortable with and that has a good flow to it
try and minimize risks while still not sacrificing too much time
etc etc
sick sentinel
thats the shitnos route one, or pretty close to it
blazing condor
same thing there in my experience it's just needless to do in a pug environment
timer is uber fine so i'd rather minimize risks
blazing condor
well you pull oros all the way down
teal swift
Ah ok
blazing condor
or rather
teal swift
My routs a bit different
teal swift
Can you link me a blank one
blazing condor
then goliath orbs and pull big
teal swift
I'll paint it on phone
waxen orbit
Tbh I fight Oros there
He should be dead by the time the Marrowgar pats back
Even with AOE oriented DPS
blazing condor
depends on the pat 😛
waxen orbit
That's true
blazing condor
Can you link me a blank one
route was an old saved pic i have no gametime and no way to really log on and fix it rn : (
waxen orbit
Ss blank route plz
Wait wdym blank route
waxen orbit
OH
teal swift
Yeah
waxen orbit
sick sentinel
well wait, how am i suppose to get to the boss with these routes if i don't kill on the right as i come in
sick sentinel
the left side is too tricky to hug the wall and go by i've tried it and even made a video how that doesn't work solo
waxen orbit
Invis through mid
You pull the pack on the upstairs portion with that boss chain after you've killed mid pack that I highlighted
Always do that with Kyrian buff
No other weapons
Lust it
jagged pier
🤮
sick sentinel
oh well, it's just for a +12 i'll do my 4head hold W route
waxen orbit
I use that route on 24 and above so you really don't need it for a 12
teal swift
Here is my route
First room you grab all the little dudes tho
Like all the patting ones
waxen orbit
My only issue with this route is that the two with first tormentor are skippable and you aren't maximizing the AOE damage that the kyrian buff provides, which is why I get the pack in the mid and then chain into the pack on the stairs
sick sentinel
it just involves pugs having to use stealth potions correctly twice on a low key and i'm not certain i can trust them to not fuck it up
teal swift
it just involves pugs having to use stealth potions correctly twice on a low key...
Once
dawn canyon
ya this is what i have with pugs its fine
waxen orbit
If you kill boss, and then go and kill the guys upstairs with no buff, it takes about 120 seconds on average that you can shave off with orb in about 26 seconds (I can post a vod for clarification on what I mean)
sick sentinel
and then before 2nd boss too
waxen orbit
Like actually, I just do this route cause it's comfy
I can respect the comfy aspect, I'm just a sweat 😛
sick sentinel
right?
blazing condor
well wait, how am i suppose to get to the boss with these routes if i don't kill...
If u mean the 1st boss u literally hug wall. If u cant do it then thats on you : (
teal swift
I have the key timed on +20
blazing condor
Anecdotal evidence is not evidence
waxen orbit
i actually have a video countering that point
Uhh...
blazing condor
Ive done it a million times
teal swift
You don't have KSM, please just trust.
blazing condor
🤷♂️
waxen orbit
You snake it along a wall then snake back
Like how a turd curls sideways in a toilet
blazing condor
You don't have KSM, please just trust.
Gatekeep girlboss
teal swift
It's not a logically sound argument, but I don't have the energy rn
So I'm pleading for trust
waxen orbit
It's okay I got energy because I popped an addy 40 minutes ago
blazing condor
If i had gametime id go in and do it rn but alas
chilly brook
It's not a logically sound argument, but I don't have the energy rn
How dare you
waxen orbit
TL;DR if you tank it in mid you're gonna get people spewing shit on adds regardless of where they aim it
And then you'll likely pull a necromancer
chilly brook
It's ok I have no energy either rn, too much attention going into editing this wedding
waxen orbit
And wipe everyone
teal swift
TL;DR if you tank it in mid you're gonna get people spewing shit on adds regardl...
I fight boss up on the platform LOL
waxen orbit
It's ok I have no energy either rn, too much attention going into editing this w...
OHSHIT WARRIOR MARRIAGE??
waxen orbit
I fight boss up on the platform LOL
This right here is the best
teal swift
And tell people to face at wall
waxen orbit
Yep, that
chilly brook
OHSHIT WARRIOR MARRIAGE??
I do video work
waxen orbit
Always save intervene for vomits from boss (Blightbone) because then people don't take damage when you intervene them
Really a life saver on high tyran for low defensive DPS
teal swift
Carry me next season
blazing condor
Na skyhold keys comin in
waxen orbit
Horde or Alli tho?
waxen orbit
My only horde is a 213 VDH
waxen orbit
I'll go horde one of these days >_<
waxen orbit
Orc survival hunter stonks rising
chilly brook
I provide healthstones and ports and big aoe dam
teal swift
I basically just need all the 20s timed
chilly brook
My lock does more damage in keys than my warrior :kekw
chilly brook
Seed is uncapped
sick sentinel
i think this is it
urban portal
Is this accurate
nah its a meme
waxen orbit
I literally came back to fury three months ago and I average like 14.4k overall
waxen orbit
Warlock got shlumped
teal swift
if you link dratnos tier 2 patreon
So it exists?
chilly brook
Depending on the pull doing upwards of 50k is easy
waxen orbit
That's pretty good, can't cap
sick sentinel
no hug left wall without invis 😦
urban portal
dratnos onlyfans
dawn canyon
Depending on the pull doing upwards of 50k is easy
that tripple shard mdi pull 
sick sentinel
waxen orbit
Guild warlock rerolled to spriest because WW is basically afflic premium edition in terms of add damage :kekw:
dawn canyon
i usually see people go through the ride side
urban portal
what kind of invis is this
dawn canyon
and then take bbone back to there
urban portal
yeah you go right side
chilly brook
that tripple shard mdi pull <:bedge:882323848844963860>
I'd have to play destruction then
urban portal
or you go around
dawn canyon
I'd have to play destruction then
is that any good outside of that ultra specific pull?
ive never played a lock KEKW
chilly brook
Not really
teal swift
yeah you go right side
I hug left side just fine
chilly brook
Aff is far more consistent in keys for AoE
And Demo is just better for tyrannical
Demo also has some solid aoe
sick sentinel
but i remember very distintcly that i tried the route and skip method hug left wall
chilly brook
Demo is hella weird tbh in keys
waxen orbit
Facts
sick sentinel
and it failed 4 keys in a row so i said to you guys WTF, "guy said pull normal what does that mean" and someone said pull right side
dawn canyon
ty griff 
chilly brook
You're welcome
waxen orbit
Ingra Maloch yeah
sick sentinel
this is what i mean though
waxen orbit
Tredova is stonks for afflic because you can usually just pull the left side pack into boss
(That's what I do because I run with a frost mage and he always wants his CDs or whatever the fuck cleave on pull)
I don't know how frost mage works I just go with it
dawn canyon
first boss mists is ew :)
sick sentinel
i asked and got linked like 5 different routes and told mine is bad, when im going on advice from after i've failed and asked for advice so came up with that
waxen orbit
Yogi
dawn canyon
I don't know how frost mage works I just go with it
frost gets its main cds back if more stuff is in blizzard is all i know
waxen orbit
Literally just run Yuzu or I's route, deadass. If someone tells you off for it, they do not know what they're talking about with routing
dawn canyon
yuzu route is good
dawn canyon
what did your group fail to
waxen orbit
Then someone didn't hug enough
If multiple people do it right
And one messes it up
That's error
urban portal
Which route are we talking
urban portal
Just hold w man
If you miss % pull extra
If you have too much % whatever
Good enough for 15s
sick sentinel
isn't there some meme about a barry that works at blizzard and only pulls 4k dps in heroic raids some shit
teal swift
How much dps do you pull Yogi?
urban portal
Tbf you don't have to be good at the game to balance it
teal swift
Tbf you don't have to be good at the game to balance it
100% accurate
waxen orbit
but i wouldnt for a 15
Oh wait true it's a 15 here wait
teal swift
Just need to be able to correctly interpret data
waxen orbit
Let me get my 15 route
dawn canyon
dude i hope its a big W on the map
urban portal
just hold w man
teal swift
I was taught many years ago
Don't route
Just pull apck by pack
And don't die
You'll time 15s every time
Like fr.
waxen orbit
That works
dawn canyon
i honestly have most groups go over count and do narzuda and the cleaver guy @swift flameboss (sorry for ping 😵💫 )
teal swift
And if you can't, blizzard will nerf it so you can, ie DoS early 9.0
It is very hard to fail a +15 with 0 deaths
dawn canyon
depending on your groups dps a wipe is giga recoverable
teal swift
Yes
dawn canyon
just dont lose confidence next time it'll work
teal swift
It is very hard to fail a +15 with 0 deaths
This is also true.
dawn canyon
i say this so loosely but its very important to keep enjoying it
teal swift
They aren't mutually exclusive.
dawn canyon
id do pink and then incinerator
waxen orbit
Yeah
dawn canyon
then green into grab orbs and boss
waxen orbit
No don't pull green into boss
dawn canyon
loop around up top to red
dawn canyon
essentially play the leveling route
waxen orbit
Pull red into boss tbh. Just shield wall it if you need to.
You'll have the kyrian buff
Plus lust
I'd be genuinely surprised if there was any ability to die there
dawn canyon
the smallies i see being taken a lot
the guys you needa kick less often
gets iffy if they land in the goo
dawn canyon
and ranged is a monke and wont kick
waxen orbit
That's something you kill once you hit the 25 threshold. You do not need to kill that miniboss
dawn canyon
i think until like above 20 that route is good
dawn canyon
NW imo is the best dungeon in SL
dawn canyon
the worst is SD since if you lose the momentum in it you are absolutely done
waxen orbit
plague boss 1
Dude WHAT
urban portal
too much effort
waxen orbit
You can spell reflect his buster every single time
dawn canyon
plague boss reflect
waxen orbit
I have never killed that boss on prot without doing at least 10.5k DPS
Red slime buff + Lust + Spell reflect
Actually such a fun fucking boss
mighty valley
PF boss 1 is fun, just nervewracking if you don't trust the rest of the team with slime management lol
a lot more fun than pf boss 2
don't even get big dam from the spell reflect there smh
waxen orbit
Only boss that's really dangerous on PF is the last one
All the other bosses are just free tbh
dawn canyon
its an IQ test at low keys
waxen orbit
True
waxen orbit
If you skip Sogg above a 25 for tyran PF you're a goddamn maniac and I salute you
Fucking crazy
Not even just for the boss damage to tank, it's the added bonus from the power against the plague rain
Genuinely insane
dawn canyon
the rain is so brutal if you dont have a pala for the extra dispell
chilly brook
Tredova is stonks for afflic because you can usually just pull the left side pac...
You can also delay your burst for the small adds to spawn to funnel the haste/crit buff from DSS
chilly brook
And don't die
Actually more true than ever in SL, all the dungeons are set up in a way that if you hold W through them and don't die you time up to a fairly high key level
chilly brook
DSS?
Decaying Soul Satchel, NF legendary, 5% haste/crit amp per target hit by Soul Rot
so 20% haste/crit funnel if it hits max targets
it's a big damage funnel
waxen orbit
OHHHHH
TRUE
My group's lock used to run that shit
Ended up taking away all my pad damage
chilly brook
It's why most logs in SoD for Aff are DSS instead of anything else because almost all the bosses have funnel damage you can gain through it
Otherwise we'd run synergy in multitarget
And no one wants that
teal swift
Actually more true than ever in SL, all the dungeons are set up in a way that if...
Yep
sick sentinel
chilly brook
Idk tho I'm a bad lock
Getting better everyday though
I did get my first orange as lock this week though!
waxen orbit
Nice dude!
I've been playing my rdudu. Got some orange damage parses on him with no dom set and 238 ilvl so
waxen orbit
beep boop bop bot identified
chilly brook
Scammers galore lately
blazing dune
$pb 239395499562500096
true pawnBOT
Done.
User is already banned, but I will now attempt to purge messages left behind from the user
If you are trying to escalate the ban to permanent you will need to use the command "ban" instead.
Done.
blazing dune
L + ratio @raven ore
waxen orbit
$pb 239395499562500096
L + radio
raven ore
normal zinc
chilly brook
I've been playing my rdudu. Got some orange damage parses on him with no dom set...
Wanna hear the funny part?
I didn't have a working dom set until like 248ilvl
waxen orbit
Dude you too????
waxen orbit
Tempted to give Kleia with frost shards, EM, and OWPC a spin
chilly brook
Dom sockets are a good system /s
waxen orbit
Dom sockets are a good system /s
Discount hand-me-down tier sets
chilly brook
It's like tier sets but the item to activate them to be eligible for set bonus is also a random drop
chilly brook
Tfw I did it on an alt
And the person I've been tanking with for 6 weeks still has rank 3 blood set
teal swift
@chilly brook what'd u miss
teal swift
I mean me
teal swift
Lmao
chilly brook
The usual of course
teal swift
chilly brook
I should really see how WoW runs on this Macbook
flat cedar
i was be able to run it on a i3 macbook lol
waxen orbit
One of my raid healers heals on a macbook with no mouse on a touchpad :cringeHarold:
chilly brook
It's the 14" M1 Pro so I'd assume it would run it like a champ
flat cedar
ye
chilly brook
One of my raid healers heals on a macbook with no mouse on a touchpad :cringeHar...
I don't think I'd want to heal on a touchpad but this touchpad has actually blown my mind
Usually would instantly plug in a mouse to do video editing but this is a breeze with all the motion controls
waxen orbit
I'd sooner string myself up on the ceiling like Spider-Man and fuck myself than heal on a touchpad
Actually sounds so unpleasant
Sorry that was a little graphic LMAO
chilly brook
lol
teal swift
I'd sooner string myself up on the ceiling like Spider-Man and fuck myself than ...
Don't kink shame
waxen orbit
But fury rotation
teal swift
But femboy catgirl
waxen orbit
It’s the only spec where I can slam my face into the keyboard and max DPS
I can’t reject that Chad play style
teal swift
Added u btw
waxen orbit
There we go accepted it
teal swift
https://tenor.com/view/goodbye-burn-gasoline-gif-22199874
Embrace it
chilly brook
Embrace it
no
chilly brook
Bunny girls are as degen as I'll allow myself to get
teal swift
Okay
Bunny boys are fine too
All sexualities are valid 👍
Battle bunny riven rework
🤤
chilly brook
Specifically female vierra
teal swift
Atleast you didn't say fucking lalafel
teal swift
agreed.
sick sentinel
apparently we X 3 speared stitchy and this happened, he got deleted
less than 15 seconds
teal swift
@waxen orbit
sick sentinel
i ran NW 12 and then we got to stitch flesh and used 3 spears on him and so he died in 15 seconds
waxen orbit
Can honestly use 1 spear on him
I'd say save 2 spears for either him or last boss
But triple spear do look pretty sploinky
sick sentinel
i think it was just a simple miscommunication and i was a bit worried because he can be a pug unfriendly boss
teal swift
What
sick sentinel
so i was pleasantly surprised that he died before he could try to do his bullshit
teal swift
I don't feel like we play the same game
sick sentinel
you've never been to a group that fails the hook 4 times and then needs to get a second hook?
and then they kill the add to early or let bot live at full hp
teal swift
Not since week 1.
I build my own groups.
And talk to people, look into them, ask if they know how the left skip works, I'm a tank so I lead them and teach them, I link my route. Etc
sick sentinel
this group was me ret and holy pala, DK and mage nothing to wite home about
teal swift
I dont have issues like that. I go the extra mile to lead success.
autumn pendant
It’s the only spec where I can slam my face into the keyboard and max DPS
tbh
Beast master Hunter
teal swift
Leading is the tanks job, everything is your fault if people don't know. @waxen orbit can verify
autumn pendant
you can play with tongue
teal swift
Bane, let's hold hands
autumn pendant
I will leave that for your imagination
teal swift
sick sentinel
i'm telling you, BM hunter is as simple as macro all attacks and CD's to do pet attack and then you do your rotation and you do crazy dps
autumn pendant
Since I keep same pfp for long time
ocean reef
My imagination wont let me go there
ocean reef
ocean reef
Bane, let's hold hands
🤝
ocean reef
i'm telling you, BM hunter is as simple as macro all attacks and CD's to do pet ...
That's more a TBC thing
sick sentinel
imma do world first, play wow with deez nuts
autumn pendant
let me help you separate those hands
🔪
teal swift
BM hunter feels like any other dps
ocean reef
But admittedly BM hunter isn't the most complex spec
autumn pendant
You manage somehting with every spec
teal swift
But it feels like a warrior
ocean reef
If you played BM in Nyalotha you could spam barbed shot
sick sentinel
That's more a TBC thing
it worked for me in nya'lotha
ocean reef
Nyalotha is an extreme case of a spec being as close to 1 button as possible
teal swift
Corruption made bm hunter playable without hands
autumn pendant
Told you. Tongue
ocean yoke
BM just feels really smooth to play
ocean reef
I even tested it with a guildie and he did about 20k dps more than me simply spamming barbed shot, where I spammed chaos strike with demon blades
With corruption ofc
ocean yoke
cant go wrong with no cast times as a ranged
sick sentinel
BM is so fucking good to play
teal swift
BM hunter has nuance to it. It's genuinely same difficulty as fury / arms
ocean reef
I truly got outgamed