protection

[jagged pier]

yes give use another talent that we have to take 100% of the time so we have no choice meaning there is no point in talents

[modern brook]

Roar is way cooler than spear

I love spear but

Don't take away my yell spec pl

[sweet summit]

it's okay to have bad opinions

[modern brook]

That's why I love you

[sweet summit]

[sick sentinel]

dragon roar sounds cool on paper and then you use it in game and its this tiny fart of an effect on a relatively long cd for its shit dmg, does fine if you have loads of crit

[blazing condor]

i remember it felt kinda nutty to use in MoP

[sick sentinel]

replace it with punish then

that never gets picked

[blazing condor]

i used it on sludgefist once

[sick sentinel]

i say: put reprisal where punish is and punish where menace is

[blazing condor]

Bounding Stride gang

[sick sentinel]

yes but, something to where devestator isn't default choice

probably should go in 10.0

[blazing condor]

devastator is nice asf to play

not having to spend every free GCD spamming devastate

[sick sentinel]

none of you guys miss spamming devestate bfa?

[blazing condor]

i just dont see the use in having it at all

its such a low prio cast

and now you use revenge either way if you dont have anything else you need to press

[cinder pasture]

Devastator baseline please

[sick sentinel]

"plz wait for 5 sunders before you do full attacks on pulling boss guys"

back in vanilla/tbc rogue or something would rip aggro from giga ambush crit

[pulsar wedge]

what lego should prot be using for M+ high keys?

[lofty widget]

reprisal

[pulsar wedge]

on feet?

[lofty widget]

currently legs for more stats

[strong forum]

I'd've loved if dragon roar was good

Change it to 8 target drop-off and I'm happy

Em + dragon roar

[blazing condor]

Pog

big burst

spear roar

[dawn canyon]

roar spear burst to me poga in mists onephase

[chilly brook]

No, replace it with gladiator stance

[blazing condor]

glad stance + dragon roar + spear + vengeance +

[chilly brook]

[brittle owl]

[inland raft]

Give prot reck on top of all that as well

[tropic linden]

And bladestorm

[patent osprey]

Stormbolt Baseline

[inland raft]

Spear with leggo effect baseline for 10.0

[blazing condor]

just give pwarr everything thats op 🙂

[weak sinew]

hey guys, new prot warri here, is there a speculation what covenant is best for prot warri?

for 9.2

[blazing condor]

necro for raids

kyrian/nf most likely for m+

[weak sinew]

so worth leveling nf if kyrian already maxed?

[blazing condor]

eeh not really imo theyre pretty equal

but maybe if you wanna try NF

[ocean yoke]

its a nice change of pace sometimes

[blazing condor]

Ancient Aftershock is pretty neat in m+ especially

[weak sinew]

gotta lern the specc anyway, only doing m+ with it as a second character

[blazing condor]

Kyrian will give you more defensive value with the phial so might be nice if you're learning

but its really just preference tbh

i enjoy being kyrian

[weak sinew]

doing smth like 11s rn with friends, all got experience in 20s but learning the spec and tanking is something else xd

[chilly brook]

It's worth it just to mess with the covenant

NF is good, so is Kyrian

See which one you like more

[weak sinew]

alright 😄

tanks seem a lot less locked than dps

[blazing condor]

yeah you can play anything with no problems

but Venthyr is pretty trash still

but if the group need a vent then why not

[weak sinew]

dont like that anyway

most of the times got all covs anyway

[blazing condor]

go for it if you got the time

[weak sinew]

are there any macros that make my life easier while learning?

[tardy lily]

hey guys, so I am (again) trying to get into Prot (ever since MoP) but as a BDK main since long I cannot seem to find how to properly play prot in content. Esp. during raids (as i mainly raid) I find it super hard to stay alive for longer. Would it be possible for you to kinda guide me through how to use and utilise CDs? Compared to BDK, Prot seems so much more squishy and i feel like i am lacking options to stabilise myself as prot

[distant crystal]

keep shield block up as much as possible when you're getting melee'd

aaand i'm spent

[tardy lily]

I consider shield block to be the physical version of Rune Tap, kinda, correct me if I am wrong

[jagged pier]

thats wrong SB is up as much as possible have u got logs to show us

its more like bone shield

[tardy lily]

nah sadly not, haven't raided on prot since like a month or two, just trying to get into it again but i remember struggling hard

hm, okay, i see

[sick sentinel]

linguini sanguini

[jagged pier]

well get some logs or some gameplay and it much easier for us to help u

even mythic + logs can tell us

[sick sentinel]

Pro tip: Don't tank mobs in the tomato-sauce puddles

[tardy lily]

fair, but it think it's more of a general understanding i am looking for. I know prot plays differently than bdk. Maybe i am just trying to find some similarities that will help me figuring out why I always feel so much more squishy then when playing BDK 🤔

[sick sentinel]

do you know how you have to be prevantative and know in advance to use AMS to avoid some shit as a bdk

you have to do that all the time with your block

any time you think you are going to be struck by melee or an ability you'd need bone shield for, you'd need block for

[tardy lily]

okay, so assuming Shield Block is more like Bone Shield/Marrowrend, so I want to keep that up as often as possible, right?
Last Stand kinda works like Vampiric Blood then i guess.
Shield wall is my Icebound Fortitude, that's a no brainer, Demo Shout my rune Tap then, i guess, except 1 charge and 45 sec cd.
Wouldn't AMS be like Spell Reflect then, kinda?

[sick sentinel]

yes shield block up all of the time

[weak sinew]

is there a macro for shield block spam?

with other skills or smth

[jagged pier]

u do not do that

ever

[sick sentinel]

more so for big melee tank buster abilities, but also for basic melee attacks

[tardy lily]

does Shield Block duration stack? so e.g. bolster + 2 charges = roughly 30 sec shield block? (just out of theory, ik it's not how this works)

[sick sentinel]

example, a mob is stunned and the only other alive enemy is casting an ice bolt magic spell at you, you don't need SB in that case

[tardy lily]

yeah, that's when i want Spell Reflect ^^

[sick sentinel]

because, it won't reduce the ice dmg

[ocean yoke]

Yes block duration does stack that way

[sick sentinel]

reprisal stacks in the same way

[tardy lily]

okay, cool! that did help a lot actually, now my biggest isue is only that Shield Block is a Spender but Marrowrend is just a button i press with uptime 🤣

[sick sentinel]

Shield block should come first, but then also IP to spend rage and survive

[ocean yoke]

You won't have 100% uptime for it the way you will with bone shield so you want to keep a stack rolling but not spam them wildly

[sick sentinel]

75%+ with rep is a good metric to start

80-95% is what we want

[ionic fern]

95% is way too much with just Reprisal.

[tardy lily]

i was thinking of going for the wall actually since it sounded more defensive as , compared to bdk, prot warrior doest mostly only mitigate physical only whereas bdk has a lot of general stuff going on, PLUS self heal being a huge parto f the kit, which prot entirely lacks

[sick sentinel]

im not running HR, just, maybe i was thinking when we used HR rep earlier

the point is, if you have a whole bunch of dudes at you with swords and hammers and shit, you want sb 100% up when they are after you,

[tardy lily]

yeah that makes sense, esp. in m+

AA is the biggest dmg intake there

but like, in raids, with huge tank mechanics smacking in, i usually just rune tap+ams or ibf or vamp blood or rune weapon, etc. and just death stike back up, so i feel like i am missing sth on prot warrior, maybe thats why i feel so squishy

[sick sentinel]

if your running AM it probably feels weird since DK defensive cds are longer, but AM makes them recharge much quicker, so its safer to use them closer to on cd, SW can be extremely powerful

[tardy lily]

fair, but that's why i maybe thought unning The Wall + Heavy Repercussions instead, best of both worlds?

or is that too defensive?

[jagged pier]

no

[sick sentinel]

it is and rep is more dps

[west walrus]

AM = more avatar = more rage + more shield wall

[jagged pier]

HR is only good with repisal

if u want block with the wall u run bolster

but u shouldnt use ither

[tardy lily]

i guess, yes, as looking into 9.2 Anger Management will become the best and only talent

okay, so by how much do I roughly push SW down in cd when running AM, and do AM+The Wall actually stack? :O

[ionic fern]

Down to ~1.5m in most generic scenarios.

[sick sentinel]

far less if you are a robot or ninja

[ionic fern]

?

[tardy lily]

okay cool, thanks!

[sick sentinel]

i think i heard could get it to 50s

[ionic fern]

That's with 9.2

....

[sick sentinel]

i don't want to say lower than that and sound dumb again

[ionic fern]

When you can run double legendaries.

And NL.

[jagged pier]

u could get it to 55 secs in season 1

with wall and am

[sick sentinel]

well i was thinking a number like 35 seconds and then im like nah i dunno what im talking about

i never tried it only heard about

[waxen orbit]

You’d have to be Barry fucking Allen to get shield wall back in 35 seconds

[tardy lily]

i mean that would also assume both wall and AM up as well as being a robot, righ?

[waxen orbit]

You’d need at least 150% haste or something unattainable like that

[urban portal]

^

Just needs a ton of haste

And rly lucky procs on ss

[jagged pier]

i mean u had that haste u might as well play the wall cause u will have like perma uptime on SB with that haste

[blazing condor]

perma bl

[mellow bridge]

not quite

it has a cap

you cant get to 30s

cant remember what exactly the cap was, like 2.5 times or smth the base duration?

[jagged pier]

it 2 times but bolster is funcky if i remeber it will just add time

[sick sentinel]

well, capped due to GCD reasons

like, buttons refresh only so fast and you have to hit the correct ones and have effects go off

[jagged pier]

no

u can hit cap of SB pretty easily with repisal

[mellow bridge]

nah

all active mitigation skills have a cap

[blazing condor]

i dont remember what it is its like 16 seconds?

[ionic fern]

18

[mellow bridge]

you can often hit it on e.g. pally with SOTR

[blazing condor]

18

shid

it was one of those

makes sense though but itd be neat to just double SB + charge + intervene in a big m+ pack

and just keep it rolling

[ionic fern]

You can break the cap for Protection Warriors with Bolster.

[teal swift]

@sweet summit @jagged pier @blazing condor @ocean reef @wicked whale @strong forum @normal zinc Morning

[ionic fern]

If using LS with Bolster puts you above 18s the cap is broken until it falls below 18 again.

[sweet summit]

gm

[blazing condor]

huggies

[wicked whale]

o/

[teal swift]

Hope everyone is well today!

[sweet summit]

i am not well

still no windfury totem

very sad

[teal swift]

Sad. Even I usually have windfury xD

[normal zinc]

https://tenor.com/view/second-place-loser-gif-10690990

[sweet summit]

fuk u

[normal zinc]

Gm

[jagged pier]

morning

[normal zinc]

Me on heroic

[ocean reef]

hi

[normal zinc]

[sweet summit]

[blazing condor]

forgot the laundry in the machine

shid

[teal swift]

oh no

https://open.spotify.com/track/4OHTMKHcucYretJ0XiL1wQ?si=3b7b53ba1db94412

[waxen orbit]

Oh we linking songs to play prot warrior to?

https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=1GKDatspLKY&feature=share

[jagged pier]

#music

[waxen orbit]

I’m learning a lot about this discord today

[dense cradle]

did you say morning at 4pm?

or are you oceanic

[teal swift]

its 1pm for me

but i say morning when i wake up

[dense cradle]

[teal swift]

because most of those people are in EU anyways

[dense cradle]

ok fair

[distant crystal]

we need a channel for querying yuzu's good morning tactics

[ocean reef]

might as well say good evening then

[dense cradle]

garm and I are only other two NA mankis

I think

💩

[teal swift]

I think morning sounds cuter

[ocean reef]

[teal swift]

I imagine myse.f saying it in a cute tired voice

[waxen orbit]

https://tenor.com/view/disappointed-disappointed-fan-seriously-what-are-you-doing-judging-you-gif-17485289

[dense cradle]

i realize I at least

grief myself in one way or another on farm

either wrong soulbind or forget something like theotar tea

dk tank forgot his grip lego so that added some spice for soulrender

[teal swift]

I dont use it

nor am I necrolord

[waxen orbit]

Holup why you gettin theo tea on prot

[teal swift]

we have 4 DKs

and each of us are assigned a marker

[dense cradle]

4 dks

[ocean reef]

monka

[dense cradle]

monkaW

[waxen orbit]

Also how you get a whole emote to yoself

[teal swift]

Everyone can use it

[waxen orbit]

I want an emote for me which is just the Pepe ree because every time I roll up I’m pissed about my class

[dense cradle]

we got one dk

[teal swift]

whats your BDK parsing tho

[waxen orbit]

On reclear a few weeks ago my guild didn’t have our resident DK so offtank went on his 205 ilvl BDK

[teal swift]

70k health left, when we actually kill i'll have a higher parse

[dense cradle]

@teal swift

[teal swift]

Oh nice

Much better than me 😦

[waxen orbit]

Chad BDK

[teal swift]

Delete that

[waxen orbit]

Holup where is you on that chart

I ain’t see no shield icon

[teal swift]

Mizo

Im BDK

[dense cradle]

he only plays blood on farm for the “harder” bosses

[waxen orbit]

O

[teal swift]

I swapped off warrior on eye

when our healer core kept letting me die

[waxen orbit]

Healers love to blame tanks

It is what it is

[teal swift]

I mean

its the eye intermission

the fuck u want me to do

LOL

I can reflect one attack

[waxen orbit]

Did you save Shield Wall and Last Stand for it?

[teal swift]

Always lmao

and i use the wall

[waxen orbit]

Strange

[teal swift]

We cant rekill remnant

[waxen orbit]

Should’ve been fine without the wall on that too if you’re decently geared actually, I can’t explain that

[teal swift]

We're not a high end guild, i just love my guild so im here for life.

[waxen orbit]

Valid

[teal swift]

We're killing soulrender

then breaking at 5/10

[waxen orbit]

Understandable. Painsmith is hella fun but takes awhile to get down for majority of guilds

[teal swift]

Im happy to be getting mythic kills in a guild I love.

it means the gear disparity isnt too bad

[dense cradle]

last time i played the shield icon somewhat serious

was realistically

[waxen orbit]

Tbh idrc ab CE. I’ll parse as far as I can get and then just crunk M+

[dense cradle]

“im a dps but my main button is thunderclap”

[teal swift]

Thats how I feel

but im not great at M+ tanking

I have a couple 20s timed

[waxen orbit]

All comes with practice and proper pacing

[teal swift]

Yep

I can KSM all 6 tanks

got a 20 timed on warrior

[waxen orbit]

Once you get past the mental barrier and feel natural in it, it tends to go a lot smoother

[teal swift]

and a 20 timed on bdk

So im above average, being able to play all 6 tanks at a KSM level, and multiple tanks in 20's

[dense cradle]

i havent mained tank tbh

since they removed vengeance

unluckers

[teal swift]

https://open.spotify.com/track/7MIp8tHu7bnVPouYg19Ukr?si=a074effd091e4ca6

This is my jam

[ionic fern]

#music

Stop posting them here.

[teal swift]

Yes mwahi 😦

I understand.

[dense cradle]

s2 bfa prot war

[waxen orbit]

Chads remember 7.3

[teal swift]

Sorry.

[waxen orbit]

https://tenor.com/view/gigachad-chad-gif-20773266

[sick sentinel]

8.3 pray for TD

[dense cradle]

all i remember about legion warrior

[teal swift]

I enjoyed nyalotha

Wrathion was a fun fight

so was maut

and hivemind was really fun

[waxen orbit]

I was dogshit in 8.3 >_>

[dense cradle]

play dps warrior in keys on skittish week

[waxen orbit]

Raided with a RP guild too

[teal swift]

wait

[dense cradle]

press battlecry

insta get mauled

[waxen orbit]

Went as smoothly as yall would expect

[teal swift]

7.3

[dense cradle]

by mobs

[teal swift]

oh

i barely played legion xD

[waxen orbit]

Legion was pretty good

[sick sentinel]

i didnt kill nzoth until they nerfed the shit out of it

[normal zinc]

Hope to see you there sometime

[waxen orbit]

I was a single digit parsing AOTC andy back in Ny'A

[sick sentinel]

and did it on lfr probably

[waxen orbit]

Deadass slept on the prime time for my main spec

[normal zinc]

Wonder what mwahi music be like

[dense cradle]

legion key had good memes

[waxen orbit]

Love to see it

[dense cradle]

like when charge pathing

killed garm

[ionic fern]

👀

[dense cradle]

in cos

[normal zinc]

On my 15k guardian pull*

[dense cradle]

wdym guardian

[normal zinc]

13.5k going into execute cds and pi

[dense cradle]

im talking the cos run we did where

[normal zinc]

Charge zigzags me through the bosses legs into obliterate

[dense cradle]

your charge went right through fire woman’s fire

[normal zinc]

[dense cradle]

and oneshot you

[normal zinc]

Yah it happened again

[waxen orbit]

Love to see it

Charge pathing still not fixed

[dense cradle]

sometimes i wonder

if charging on eye will just bug out one day

and ill just fall off

[waxen orbit]

It has for me

Not joking, week 1 of mythic release

My guild was progging eye

[dense cradle]

one of our dps warriors

[waxen orbit]

I hit charge on him

[dense cradle]

brain straight off

[waxen orbit]

And I go flinging indefinitely into the void

[dense cradle]

gets chain targeted

[waxen orbit]

I'm not fucking kidding

[dense cradle]

runs into boss as it starts the pull

[waxen orbit]

I ended up flying off the map

GMod style

[dense cradle]

i miss dfa on my rogue jsut for the times in legion

it made me fall under the map

and i needed a lock summon back up

happened in a plaguefall key where i took a lock gate and it just dropped me below map

chain d/ced for a solid 5 mins

[waxen orbit]

REEEEEEE THERE'S NO 25s IN ALLIANCE LFG DEAD GAME UNINSTALL REEEEEE

[dense cradle]

alliance

[waxen orbit]

How long til I swap

How long til I snap

[sick sentinel]

didn't have a fuckin clue, went to the raid on my huntard, dps'd the crap out of everything, mash buttons and try to not stand in shit

make it to final boss where i have to actually think and do shit, we got like 2 pulls, waited till past midnight

[lone eagle]

temperature checking some of the tank discords for arguments

How are we feeling about tank meta in 9.2 so far? Obviously still tons of room for changes, but if it went live like it was right now

I play all tanks pretty much equally so working with my cotank right now to figure out what tanks we'll have ready

[sweet summit]

for what

raid?

[lone eagle]

Raid

[sweet summit]

paladin

[lone eagle]

Most of the bosses attack pretty slow and are largely not threatening in my experience, so I do figure pally is a safe bet to some degree

[sweet summit]

maybe kyrian bear and necro prot

[lone eagle]

At the current rate, anyone in here considering Necro prot next tier?

[sweet summit]

a lot are (i hope/think)

it looks pretty good, and 3 banner buffs is great if you can play around it

but that is way easier said than done

[lone eagle]

I have my monk and VDH ready and fully mythic geared, but working on my 3rd tank atm and I'm feeling pwar as my 3rd

[sweet summit]

i don't see any reason to play vdh at all

brings nothing+havoc looks great

[lone eagle]

Bear is looking really good for M+ but I think given all the set bonuses and how... M+ centric theirs is, it doesn't feel like it really brings anything more than other tanks

Yeah, I have it ready really for debuff reasons

[sweet summit]

monk same boat, if ww good then no spot (unless mw unironically is played)

[lone eagle]

GM is raid buff obsessed so I'm making sure we have good coverage there just incase

[sweet summit]

fair

[chilly brook]

It makes sense to be tbh

[lone eagle]

For sure, for sure

Just stating why I have my VDH ready haha

[sweet summit]

a lot of the value of bear is kyrian

[lone eagle]

He's keeping his monk, BDK and ppal ready

[chilly brook]

There's almost no excuse to not have all the bases covered especially with how it's free damage

[sweet summit]

not in the tier sets

[lone eagle]

I'd love it if Kyrian bear were meta since I'm definitely a bear fan haha

I think my order of preference is something like Brew/VDH/Bear/Pwar > ppal > BDK

[distant crystal]

time to pole for weakaura packs

what ya'll using?

[teal swift]

BrM is still the best prog tank

As long as stagger exists :(

[sweet summit]

nah

[sweet summit]

adriox i think it's called

[chilly brook]

Honestly CB is super powerful too

And celestial fortune

[distant crystal]

hmmm

i like it

[sweet summit]

u need like

3 auras

but i'm a big fan

[distant crystal]

does this one not track the SB from reprisal

[sweet summit]

there is a seperate aura pack for buffs i think?

read the desctiption xd idr well enough sorry

[distant crystal]

i think the one i used back in bfa would like, glow the shieldblock aura whille it was active or smth

but now that you mention it i can see shieldblock on my player bar like 2cm below kek

[sweet summit]

lmao

wait you have the blizzard bar enabled?!?!?!

[distant crystal]

no elvui's just showing it on the player frame

along with that critical info that it's WOTLK timewalking week

lest we forget

[sweet summit]

oh

if it works it works

here's what mine looks like (ignore the red circles)

[distant crystal]

damn, i see you're a fellow man of culture who loves to surf the waves

[dawn canyon]

i like that target of target frame

[sweet summit]

just one

• i used defensive

so it's fine

[sick sentinel]

i always used addons

but i was very much agianst elvui in bfa

now i use it

[normal zinc]

????

Just leaking our dms like that

Actual

🐀

https://tenor.com/view/back-off-hungry-fighting-food-feed-me-gif-14656640

[sweet summit]

bro it's the only pic i have of what it looks like????

[normal zinc]

Man

Smh

DM LeakErga

[sweet summit]

https://tenor.com/view/nazrin-touhou-nyn-nazrin-moves-gif-22827543

[normal zinc]

Also irrationally upsets me

Your buffs/trinket + cov WA positioning

And the dimensional ratios of your weakauras

[sweet summit]

why

[normal zinc]

You could shfit trinket/cov to main bar

And buffs down

So everything is neatly together

Instead it looks like a tetris nightmare

[sweet summit]

i'll think about it

[normal zinc]

If you fixed the dimenstional ratios on your top WA

It'd fit too

[sweet summit]

yes but what if i don't play an on use

[normal zinc]

Make it a dynamic group

So it resizes

[sweet summit]

sounds hard

but we'll see

[normal zinc]

I can literally make it for you

[sweet summit]

nono it's fine i think

i got this 😎

[normal zinc]

Couldn't even figure out how to mod me

[sweet summit]

right clicking didn't work so i gave up

[normal zinc]

/mod <username>

https://giphy.com/gifs/stress-i-need-a-drink-brain-explode-2rqEdFfkMzXmo

[sweet summit]

[waxen orbit]

Holy fuck

Bear is actually a cakewalk lmfao

Tanking 20s on this joke toon at 221 ilvl

Went 2 minutes over timer but it wasn't even because of my toon, it was because healer DC'd last boss lmfao

[trim bay]

this is the warrior channel

[teal swift]

Yep, it's frustrating how low skill floor is on bear vs warrior

[waxen orbit]

Hold up fr? I thought this was #affliction

[waxen orbit]

This

[teal swift]

I love my warrior. I really wish they made it a bit easier to do okayish on.

I know it's high skill cap, but it makes for a tough play.

I kinda cap out around 20s on pwar cause I'm bad

[waxen orbit]

Sitting around 24s and 25 as prot but I know for a fact I could do 26/27 if I just had a dedicated team that would play with me on prot

Alas, why take a prot warrior and not just make them play fury, which is busted, when prot paladin has infinitely more utility, offheals, an exorbitant amount of interrupts, and just as much damage albeit with a better toolkit against magic damage

[mighty valley]

Still amazed people pug at that level, just sounds miserable for nothing more than bragging rights

[waxen orbit]

Not even pugging

People just don’t want you on prot warrior if they know a prot paladin at the same IO

[mighty valley]

eh, my friends are very chill about people just playing what they want

[waxen orbit]

I play with the same like, 7-8 people in M+. Just a situation of fury being busted, prot warr being not, and prot paladin being OP

[waxen orbit]

Well but what level of content is that

Because there’s a point where a good chunk of people in the community essentially stop allowing that

[mighty valley]

yeah i don't interact with the "community"

[waxen orbit]

Anyone who plays the game is inherently part of that game’s community, but that’s a separate topic entirely

[mighty valley]

Sure, I just mean I have a bubble where people don't get upset about bleeding edge class balance

we go as high as people want to go and sure we're not motivated to get beyond 25+

but I dunno, if i'm not playing the thing I want to play, I don't really care if my number goes up by 1

[waxen orbit]

Yeah that’s valid

Cant fault that

[mighty valley]

just think a lot of people would be happier if they got a little less tense about other classes, especially when this is the best tank balance in a while

[waxen orbit]

Maybe at like, standard level content

When people complain about the tank imbalance, at least from what I’ve seen, it comes from the higher register of play

Sure you got outliers who’ll complain regardless of their content level

But like

[mighty valley]

yeah, but someone always has to be best and someone always has to be worst (at least in community perception), and the gap is only apparent at a level of content that a tiny fraction of a percent of players are playing, so it's kind of unreasonable to expect better balance than that

[waxen orbit]

There’s definitely an imbalance between the tanks once you hit that top rung of play, and it blares in significance in an environment like M+

[waxen orbit]

For sure

Just a thing of when it’s consistent for a year of the expac and Blizz gives one address to it, that being Reprisal, it feels as though the vocal concerns of that spec are being ignored

And from a community standpoint, that can be pretty frustrating

[teal swift]

Or bear

[waxen orbit]

That too. And BrM >_<

[mighty valley]

i mean, not giving someone what they want isn't the same as being ignored, it's just not a high priority problem

[teal swift]

BrM was a surprise it felt so fucking bad ilast xpac

[teal swift]

Warrior is the least played tank by a very large margin in all high end content. It is a problem

[waxen orbit]

At this point I’d like them to address the issues that prot warr faces but the thing is, it hasn’t been addressed. Like, at all

I’m not asking for a fix, though it’d be nice. I’m just asking for them to acknowledge it

Sure, prot warr is played to CE, but so is every other spec in the game. Doesn’t mean you’ll see it in high play in M+, where the value of each player really pops out because you don’t got 19 other people to fill in for those gaps

[mighty valley]

but like we said, tiny differences are magnified at the tippy top, they're not "very real concerns" if that's the only place they're felt

monks are busted at everything they do and are rock-bottom popularity overall, popularity and power just don't correlate

[waxen orbit]

But they aren’t felt at the very top

You can feel the difference between survivability on a tank like guardian druid and prot paladin even outside of CDs as opposed to a prot warrior. Chalk that up to “different tanks” but if multiple tanks thrive in multiple situations where one falters in the majority, that’s imbalance

[mighty valley]

that's feelycraft shit though, guardian feels like shit to me outside of incarn honestly

[waxen orbit]

Why say it’s “feelycraft” if you just stated where the issues are felt?

That’s what we were talking about

[teal swift]

What do you want, frequency of use in high keys? Number of sylv kills? Which tank dies the most frequently in raiding?

Warrior wins every medal there.

[mighty valley]

i mean felt as in when it actually becomes important, you can't tell me that warrior feels like they're letting down the group in 15s

[waxen orbit]

Because that’s a 15

[teal swift]

That's like saying the warrior doesn't let the group down on heroic raiding

When melee DPS could fucking tank the boss

[mighty valley]

i'm just telling you that blizzard is never ever going to chase a dream of every tank being equally represented in +28s and RWF

[teal swift]

That's not what we want

Stop strawmanning.

[mighty valley]

and tiny differences cause the community to have stupid opinions about who can and can't do content

[waxen orbit]

We aren’t talking about RWF

[mighty valley]

yes i'm engaging in a tiny amount of hyperbole to illustrate a point

[teal swift]

Prot warrior sees at best 33-50% the play in mythic raiding at a 10/10 level right now as any other tank. Has the highest death count out of all of the tanks during mythic kills, and has the least presence above 25 keys.

This isn't hyperbole. This is verifiable.

[waxen orbit]

This

[teal swift]

I love my warrior. She's super cute.

But she feels kinda bad. I swapped off her to my bdk for an easier time in a casual guild.

[mighty valley]

representation numbers are extremely difficult to figure out the root cause for, and small perceptions in a tight community can cause cascading effects in them

[teal swift]

The easiest to look at

Is why prot warriors die more than all the other tanks during mythic kills (not wipes)

[waxen orbit]

She literally cited deaths too in prot warrior kills

Even the ones pushing

Are getting flopped

There’s a clear issue when prot warrior needs shield wall for, say, mythic Sylv daggers, in high content to survive while other tanks can flat out raw-no-rubber swallow it

[teal swift]

Here are two sets of metrics, neither are cherrypicked. You can really go into it. But rn, prot warriors are struggling

[waxen orbit]

That’s only raid content too

[mighty valley]

sure, yeah, cause for concern looking ahead. just trying to say that for the vast vast majority of players it doesn't actually matter, they trick themselves into believing it does when they're never even going to go beyond AOTC, and that game balance and analysis of data is more difficult and complicated than players give credit for

[waxen orbit]

Vast majority of players raid log

Not a good reference point

[teal swift]

Like, prot warrior needs a complete overhaul.

I'd like to see prot warrior reworked for 10.0

Much like how BrM was reworked.

[mighty valley]

i'd rather play prot warrior than any other tank so I'd rather they not get completely changed

[somber sky]

WTB BfA Prot woyer

[teal swift]

Just give it the BrM treatment.

[somber sky]

[waxen orbit]

Once again, likely a product of the level of content you push

[teal swift]

It just had really good damage so people loved it in keys

But it suffered from the same issues in raiding imho it was more popular.

At the core, pwar shouldn't be a DPS with a shield.

It should be a tank.

How they accomplish this, no idea. I just know it's broken.

[mighty valley]

which players do you think blizzard cares about? what percentage of players do you think even get KSM?

[somber sky]

well look at the other tanks, some are literally dps with a sheild.

[teal swift]

20% of players get ksm

Or was it 10%

[mighty valley]

yep! not a lot!

[somber sky]

others are healing through necrotic as if the affix doesn't even exist

[teal swift]

I don't exactly remember sorry

[teal swift]

Prot.warrior is the best tank in the game for necrotic

It's the one niche it fills insanely well

[waxen orbit]

Just because 20% isn’t over 50 doesn’t mean it’s “not a lot”

Lmfao

What type of math is that

[mighty valley]

but the balance issues are non-existent at 15s and the player dropoff after that are enormous

[somber sky]

explain how so?

[strong forum]

Lol those death% will always show pwar as the highest

Pwar has always had the highest death% in raid

In the last 2 or 3 expansions

[mighty valley]

even when we were objectively strong

[strong forum]

"needs a complete overhaul"

[teal swift]

Nome be nice

I love u ok

[strong forum]

Even in bfa when pwar was considered overpowered

They were "bad for raid"

There's just no winning

[teal swift]

It's because the iconic tanking class is the squishiest

Just give warriors stagger

[waxen orbit]

That’s referencing an old point; we’re talking about the here and now

[teal swift]

They'll be #1 for raid

[waxen orbit]

And the here and now is that we got a balance issue – for real

[strong forum]

Bah

[waxen orbit]

Especially headed into 9.2

[teal swift]

One of the tanks has to be the worst. And their community will be sad.

[strong forum]

That's some real copium

[teal swift]

Rn it's prot warrior, and that makes me sad.

[strong forum]

9.2 tank balance has been the closest it's ever been

Legit

[teal swift]

Yep

[strong forum]

9.1*

We don't have 9.2 yet

[waxen orbit]

You been on PTR right?

So far the balance is out the window

[teal swift]

I can't win debate vs Nome, I said my feelings.

That's all I really got.

[somber sky]

return old Spell Reflect

[strong forum]

Balance doesn't exist on ptr yet

Monk is ridiculously overpowered

In everything

But yes pwar looks the weakest

[somber sky]

the 50% slow thingy is nuts. 100% self kiting + threat management

[teal swift]

I just want my prot war to be as easy as my bdk is to raid on

[somber sky]

the talent that's on the same row with jade wind

[strong forum]

Monk is also only slightly immortal

[urban portal]

its not that

its the fking

[strong forum]

With way too much ehp

[urban portal]

having 200k hp

and more ehp on top of that

[mellow bridge]

Monks casually death striking now in the ptr

[somber sky]

how tf they deathstriking o.O

[strong forum]

4p

[somber sky]

jesus

[mellow bridge]

4p in aoe is basically a death strike

In ST it's just a nice hps bonus

[strong forum]

Even in St monks are ridiculous

[waxen orbit]

Every tank outdpsing us on PTR in M+ overall 🙂

[strong forum]

We back to EP, only monk tanks allowed

[waxen orbit]

“Balenss”

[somber sky]

balins

[teal swift]

Balands

[waxen orbit]

World of Warcraft: Badowlands

[mighty valley]

original

[teal swift]

I actually really enjoyed both tiers

And torghast 18 floor shit

[waxen orbit]

Oh yeah I’m memeing. Torgh unironically has felt fun to me, lowkey

[teal swift]

The dungeons were decent

[waxen orbit]

That and Nathria

[teal swift]

Only got burnt out on torg

[dawn canyon]

Say what you will but SL's signature fights like Sire and PS are pretty good

[teal swift]

When I had to do 2 runs a week

I don't mind grinding 10 runs in a row

[waxen orbit]

Cant argue there

[teal swift]

But having 2 runs a week upkeep felt like shit.

Like having to do that shit at the low point of the xpac

Z,zzz

[urban portal]

sylv is cringe

[mighty valley]

torghast was great at first but just didn't have enough actual variety for how much we had to run it, wish it had more weird busted combos of powers

[waxen orbit]

Sanctum has felt fairly weak in terms of aesthetic, music, and design, but it’s definitely had it’s high points like Guardian and PS

[dawn canyon]

I think some of the mid level bosses were really good

[waxen orbit]

Agreed on that. It was fun for me for about... I’d say 5 months? And then I couldn’t do it anymore

[dawn canyon]

Think Huntsman or Render

[teal swift]

I wanted actual endless mode.

[waxen orbit]

That’s when it felt like a chore

[teal swift]

Let's have a leaderboard

[dawn canyon]

Not very difficult but really cool

[teal swift]

For each class and subclass

And let you climb Infinitely

And it ranks you, could've offered really cool cosmetics and titles and ahit

[strong forum]

DW blizz will give us that great +5% aura and call it a day

[teal swift]

5% aura?

[mighty valley]

just what they call flat damage buffs across the board

[strong forum]

^

[mighty valley]

honestly my number 1 core issue with prot warrior is that our main rage dump damage ability has no theme and feels like nothing lol

[dawn canyon]

[waxen orbit]

feelsironfurman

[somber sky]

[waxen orbit]

Jk at least ironfur actually fucking serves a purpose as a defensive

[mighty valley]

shield block uptime management is more fun and satisfying than ironfur, idk

[teal swift]

Prot warrior damage is fine

Give us like -12% damage taken aura

[dawn canyon]

Incarn Trash fur Trash Trash Trash fur Trash Trash fur Trash Trash fur Trash

[mighty valley]

we're literally getting a set bonus with 10% dr with enormous uptime

[teal swift]

I mean passive and permanent

Or honestly, ehp

[dawn canyon]

Tank Balance after 9.2 Release gonna be interesting

[teal swift]

Give us like another 25% stam

[waxen orbit]

What we need is baseline avatar mitigation and Legion ignore pain

That’s what we need

[dawn canyon]

Magic blockable Talent

Like pala

[waxen orbit]

That’s where I disagree simply because class niche. I guarantee if they reverted ignore pain to being a regular absorb, it would resolve more than half the issues prot warr faces in terms of survival

[dawn canyon]

I didnt get to play legion ip so the pala is the closest comparable experience i had

I think for the Sake of the nieche you are right

[waxen orbit]

My honest take on prot warrior is make ignore pain normal absorb and reduce the cost to 20-30 to put it on an equal level of cost as revenge

And then avatar DR baseline

[teal swift]

Or listen, make ignore pain passive, and triggered with revenge

[waxen orbit]

That could also work for sure

In practice, it could be slightly overpowered, but shit, it’s better than what we got now

[teal swift]

It'd make us a lot tankier while maintaining the brutal theme of warrior

It's add a couple key levels that's about it.

IP falls off quick lmao

[waxen orbit]

True

[teal swift]

You'd die less in raid

You'd die less in keys

And you'd still do less damage than a prot paladin

[waxen orbit]

All I’ve ever wanted

[teal swift]

I miss my warrior

Little Vulpera with her thunderfury

🥺

[waxen orbit]

Dwarf Chad race

https://tenor.com/view/dwarf-warcraft-chad-repost-if-dwarf-chad-gif-21569293

WTB gif that sends correctly

[teal swift]

https://c.tenor.com/6pikAgINqWUAAAAM/pokemon-gardevoir.gif

Well fuck

[waxen orbit]

Well that went through crystal clear

[teal swift]

Yup LOL

[strong forum]

What we need is a way to scale into multiple targets and

Insta fixed

In 9.2 we're the only tank that doesn't

That's why we're the weakest there

Bear cuz incarn/berserk and infinite rage
Pally cuz 4p
Vdh cuz 2p
Bdk cuz 2p+4p
Monk cuz 4p

[urban portal]

and theres no ST niche either

[strong forum]

St remains TBD but yeah I think so too

[mighty valley]

buff condemn a shit ton let's gooooooooooooo

[strong forum]

But aoe is defo lost cuz we don't get anything for it

[brittle owl]

wdym

you get a cool new emoji for new patch

[strong forum]

I get a cool "not gonna resubscribe" plaque

[jagged pier]

but KSM mount nome

[blazing condor]

What color this time

[waxen orbit]

Kool-aid

[jagged pier]

its the only good one they made

im just saying that, that mount should have been season 1

fits with the CN theme

[strong forum]

Ye

And this seasons could've been a lightforged style one

With maybe some ornaments

[jagged pier]

adding ornaments is too much work

just copy paste and change colour

[strong forum]

Tru

Just rng the colour code

Call it Design

[jagged pier]

yer colour wheel

oh its red instead of blue this time

well just put it on it

[teal swift]

What's hero mount

I hope it's like hot pink

[strong forum]

hero mount

3k cheevo will just be a cheevo

[jagged pier]

theres no reward for hero yet

[strong forum]

And there won't be

[jagged pier]

well u unlock top lvl rng conduit thing

[strong forum]

That's the reward yeppers

You ready to do 20x +20 keys

[jagged pier]

[mighty valley]

don't you get that one item that just maxes them all

[jagged pier]

im pretty sure its the changes one random one

[strong forum]

Na

That item harrow means is the one we also meant

You can buy it with exalted and you need ksh/glad or ce

Except that ksh is piss easy compared to the other 2

[ionic fern]

Smh, do i really need to do all 20's now?

[strong forum]

Only if you want all conduits at max

[ionic fern]

Great.

So no.

[jagged pier]

boost me

[ionic fern]

I can't even boost myself. 😦

Did they announce how you get tier set outside of raids yet?

[strong forum]

Vault

[jagged pier]

maybe together we can me one competent group member

[mighty valley]

unlock a step with the cypher thing and you can turn any vault gear into tier piece

[teal swift]

I think they will have a mount or title

[strong forum]

You can only get tier pieces from vault and raid

Later on they will unlock the "turn normal gear into tier"

But that won't be available insta

[ionic fern]

Hmm

So this means i need to do 10+ keys for maximum chance for tier.

[jagged pier]

[ionic fern]

Jeah

No.

[jagged pier]

just come to my keys in new season

[strong forum]

10 keys

[jagged pier]

i usually do thaat for like a month

then i give up

[strong forum]

Don't forget to cap out honour!

Forgot how much it is!

But do that too!!

[jagged pier]

Fuck that

1800

Then stop

FUCK MY HEALER QUIT

How am i gunna get 1800 now

[ionic fern]

[jagged pier]

Fun fact because we were on such a win streak like season our 1800 game was against a 2.1k team

He carried the whole way

[teal swift]

10 keys a week

Jakey, let's commiserate together in 9.2

Different region, but we can hug out our unhealthy feelings.

[jagged pier]

Imma have to do 20

10 for monk as well

[teal swift]

I'm sorry brother

I'll give you double the hugs

[jagged pier]

🤗

[teal swift]

🫂

[ionic fern]

Wild.

If anything i'll do 2 items for my warrior and 1 key on my alts.

😦

[jagged pier]

i may be free for keys tonight mwahi btw depending how like it takes us kill slyv

[ionic fern]

Get that 1 weekly key done.

[jagged pier]

[teal swift]

Wish I could play with you fridnds

Na :(

[jagged pier]

u dont our keys are a shit show

[blazing condor]

Skyhold weekly

[jagged pier]

well now its only me and mwahi

as erga always boosting

and u and nome unsubbed

[blazing condor]

[strong forum]

Can't believe erga is toxic booster

Ruining OUR game

[jagged pier]

TRUE

[blazing condor]

Blizzard should just make you be able to get CE through LFG to remove these opportunistic parasites

[jagged pier]

i sub

im entitlied to CE glad and KSH just for paying a sub tbh

oh and druid MT form

[blazing condor]

[mighty valley]

mage tower copypasta goes here

[blazing condor]

We pay We say

[jagged pier]

idk this version of wow is hard 4 me but i have severe psychosis and whenever i play wow i just sort of zone out like im not in my body and im just playing my character on auto pilot or eating mechanics and doing big very little dam its pretty crazy but thats just who i am

[strong forum]

Funny how quiet DG is now that MT is gone

[jagged pier]

true

KEKW

[strong forum]

idk this version of wow is hard 4 me but i have severe psychosis and whenever i play wow i just sort of zone out like im not in my body and im just playing my character on auto pilot or eating mechanics and doing very little dam its pretty crazy but thats just who i am

[blazing condor]

Their shitposting game is weak

Needs more zugzug

[strong forum]

https://tenor.com/view/moves-are-weak-upper-hook-punch-gif-14965985

[teal swift]

https://c.tenor.com/Yy8d1d0oUAEAAAAM/wtf.gif

[blazing condor]

How bad was skyhold during 8.3

I was

[teal swift]

Idk I'm new here

[jagged pier]

8.3 SL chat was 🔥 i dont know what this chat was like

[blazing condor]

idk i wouldnt really want pwarr to be the meta cus of all the metaslaves it'd bring

[strong forum]

It was a whole lot of "omg pwar is so dumb op"

Mixed with VERS!!!!

[blazing condor]

yep can imagine :T

[jagged pier]

while SL chat just jammed

[strong forum]

And "omg I can't find a raid guild cuz pwar is so bad in raid" :)

[teal swift]

Finding a raid guild as any tank is rough.

You're either coming with a ton of experience

Or you're joining some shit aotc struggle bus guild

(my friend is in a guild that's still progging h sylv after extending for 2 months)

[strong forum]

:nodders:

[blazing condor]

🤢

[jagged pier]

:nodders:

[teal swift]

I managed to get into a guild that loves me, gives me full autonomy

And I can play any of the 6 tanks I want, as well as choose my cotank

But we'll end this tier at 5/10m

[blazing condor]

imagine raiding 2-3x a week for like 10 hours, and you've done this since 9.1, and you're still PROGRESSING a boss

[teal swift]

And that's ok.

[blazing condor]

i would simply kms

[teal swift]

Took them 6 weeks of extending to kill fate

2 to kill kt

[jagged pier]

our guild is skipping fate now

[teal swift]

And been 8 weeks of sylv

[jagged pier]

no one wants it

drops shit loot

more annoying than slyv tbh

[strong forum]

Weird how that happens when a boss drops literally nothing for nobody

[teal swift]

Honestly tho, my prog kinda sucks but 5/10 mythic is enough to get almost everything I need to enjoy keys

[strong forum]

Idc about prog

I just want loot when I play

[teal swift]

I have a group that I love and won't leave even for CE.

[strong forum]

I'd be happy to reclear 3/10 every week

[jagged pier]

because u a whore nome

[strong forum]

Ima dirty

Little

[teal swift]

[strong forum]

Gnoblin

[teal swift]

https://c.tenor.com/VaGnxr06g1YAAAAM/goblin-gigawix.gif

[strong forum]

https://tenor.com/view/gnome-your-chums-gnomed-gnome-gnoblin-gnelf-gif-12675740

[blazing condor]

cheat death

[jagged pier]

except theres a better cheat death from the raid before

[blazing condor]

i remember trying fatescribe trinket in ptr

like once

and immediately it was like "nop"

[jagged pier]

was good to cheese original KT

[blazing condor]

naxx KT pog

[teal swift]

Fatesxribe trinket shouldn't have damage cap

As it doesn't cheat death. It still kills you.

[blazing condor]

true i guess

could probably cheese a bit too much with it tho

[teal swift]

Eh, one mechanic a fight

[blazing condor]

it be kinda poopy cus if it was like that and in the game every boss from there on out would have to be designed around it

so as to not make something that can be absolutely trivialised by the trinket

if its some soak mechanic or similar

[weak spindle]

With the paladin and dk tank set lads is there an internal cooldown for the strike back?

[strong forum]

Paladin ICD is gonna be 3 seconds

So they lost a huge amount of aoe power

Dk idk

[teal swift]

Dk better be like 200ms

Or it's gonna suck

[jagged pier]

they arent even registering as heart strikes yet

and ppl are saying patch in 2 weeks

KEKW

[strong forum]

Well dk does like 20k+ dps on 9 targets

And infinite runic power

So something does work

[teal swift]

LOL

I'd like that

Free ksh

[oblique garnet]

If you want broken tank trinket just go do maut from bfa

Stil absorbs anything

[brittle owl]

maut triket 🤮

[teal swift]

I forget what that trip let is

Also hi late, ily

[outer solstice]

We actually did 6/10 im 2.5 hours after our 1st reclear xD

[strong forum]

Ye what I meant was

Clear minimal amount of bosses per week, if they contain bis/close to bis items

Like say nyalotha where with 3/12 you'd get the best loot outside of the +10ilvl pieces from the last 2

So I'd just pug the first 3 bosses from week1, never progress raid and have the best gear regardless

[brittle owl]

raid good keys bad

[strong forum]

Progress bad, gear good

[strong forum]

Ah, apparently bdk dmg is rip again

[teal swift]

Wdym?

It's still crap

[strong forum]

Well they changed the set, and it's bugged

[jagged pier]

told ya

[teal swift]

It is very bugged rn

They were too ambitious

Should've just made it so vampiric blood was 50% damage cd

[strong forum]

Ya I didn't know they reworked the set 9hrs ago

[teal swift]

They didn't

[strong forum]

They did

[teal swift]

That has been know. For weeks

[strong forum]

Now the set triggers on dmg taken, not on parry

[uneven river]

Tier sets been reworked ?

[teal swift]

Wowhead is just slow as fuck

[teal swift]

Yes, this has been known for awhile

[strong forum]

Didn't this patch come out literally tonight

On ptr

[teal swift]

Scarizard posts in dk discord

[mortal brook]

and rogue

[teal swift]

Ah

Sorry it was about a week ago

That we found out that tier set would use your parry chance to proc on damage taken

Right around here

[sick sentinel]

The only thing I truly know about bdk is deathstrike runweapon and ams

[gaunt dawn]

that's pretty much it

[teal swift]

Gn frens

[jagged pier]

gn

[soft loom]

In the sylvanas encounter in SoD do the stacks of banshees bane disappear if you die from jumping off the edge?

[jagged pier]

i dunno but u dont want to do that anyways

u should never have loads of stacks its a problem

[gaunt dawn]

No

They come back on

That was cahnged week 2

[kind gyro]

eyo guys, ive got a question.
I am the main tank for a mythic raiding guild on outland. And ive been discussing my new main tank for 9.2
And I think i will be going Prot warrior / Prot paladin.

Can i get your guys honest opinion about prot warriors in raid? are they actually fun and how do they perform?
This is the only tank im not familiar with so i would really appreciate some feed back on the matter as they look really fun. but will they still be fun after 100+ wipes?

[west walrus]

"Are they actually fun" only you can decide if it is. This is a very subjective point of view

[strong forum]

Llarold dubbed pwar in 9.2 "the most fun pwar has ever been"

It's gonna be a very fast spec

[west walrus]

I hate the bonus from 9.2, it something to track on top of all things we already have to track

Where other classes don't have to

[strong forum]

Everything else is subjective, you will be able to clear the raid with any tank, pwar has potential to be very strong offensively

That being said, it is factual that there is alot of unblockable damage in the upcoming raid. Will have to see how demanding the last 3 bosses will be given that they won't be publicly tested

[jagged pier]

tbf tho a lot of the magic damage is reflect/defelctable and running the wall and glory isnt far being rep and glory in terms of rage gen

🤷

but its all what your comfortable with

and what u personally find fun

[strong forum]

So it's all up in the air, but my initial objective statement would have to be that you'd "only" play pwar for fun, execute dmg and it's raid buffs

But we won't know anything until the actual launch and some time into the patch

If you fancy the idea to do 20k+ dps in execute and very high apm, then pwar is your choice

[oblique garnet]

Well we know that with current tuning we are most likely least represented tank in the tier

[blazing condor]

We are slept on

Fr fr (for real for real)

[strong forum]

With current tuning it's pretty dire comparatively

Tru

Atleast defensively and in aoe

But idk, given how stupidly high our IP usage will be how it fairs defensively

[jagged pier]

well a free ip every 8 seconds isnt bad