any time i ever played BE which was like 1 dude it was exlcusive for shaman like purge
#protection
sick sentinel
no other purpose whatsoever
even on my terrible bad mage, thats the only time i really used it, if it gave me mana it probably did so by accident
urban portal
that technically is the resource
cinder nova
How come our tier is poo compared to bear and pally
mighty valley
idk I feel like opening with a 3x shield slam every time is gonna feel kinda cool
no tuning has happened yet
and honestly don't love that the druid one just piles on even more power into their big CD
they're already immortal gods in incarn
primal rain
I'm so glad Avatar is becoming defensive
tender imp
its not like u will save it for defensive purposes
sweet summit
it became a better offensive 
novel temple
sick sentinel
and having your character size to grow and you get dmg and reduction
sweet summit
just different wording 
sick sentinel
it's gunna feel like we actually playing the game soon
if sets released with SL and this was one of the set bonuses in 9.0, i don't think wow would be in nearly as much trouble as it is now with the 6 months ago news and this week news
tender imp
freely switching covenants whenever u please would have been a way bigger factors
sets are nice but its not really the reason why shadowlands is considered bad
sick sentinel
a set of armor with bonuses for you gives you a goal to log in and complete the set (the set is on par with at least lfr/normal, or upgradeable to or beyond that point
and players will go for it as long as the bonus provides something meaningful, (dmg/buff) fantasy by working roughly the way you imagine it might
sweet summit
yo wtf
tender imp
๐ค
sick sentinel
reminds me of these cards in MTG that you flip over at certain times (dude on the right is me if i ever re-roll to undead)
ocean yoke
ah yeah pumper mode confirmed
sick sentinel
"Hide behind rock" has remained an extremely successful survival tactic, it sounds stupid but it works
obtuse monolith
Gladiator Stance? Don't Call It a Comeback
mighty valley
i'd set your expectations more around a good trinket or the proc/buff weapons from SoD, lol
in any case, cool to see them trying to make an interesting shield
obtuse monolith
๐
ocean yoke
could well see it just be swapping the block to something else
balmy coral
chilly brook
In fairness as prot you typically have a dead global here or there
Or a global you can sacrifice and not cap or lose out on anything
urban portal
i never feel like i have a dead global
chilly brook
How come our tier is poo compared to bear and pally
Idk I'm really happy with our tier tbh
chilly brook
But you probably miss a melee because of that
Which is a shield slam reset chance
Cuz devastator
If you're gonna run out just full send for charge
urban portal
Yeah that's what I mean
Backpedal, weapon toss, and charge
While watching swing timer
chilly brook
Sorry I thought you just meant to throw weapon lol
Internet is ded
I was vibin spamming ToP keys
Haven't played prot in a hot minute in keys and finishing around 6.5k in ToP
jagged pier
Yo thatdatamined tier set pretty nutty tho
blazing condor
Tier bonus is big 
hoopla free damage
Its basically just โplay like you normally do and get more damageโ
Fun
mighty valley
there's some optimization of trying to make sure you dump outrage stacks before avatar
not complicated tho
blazing condor
tawdry dirge
4set is nuts
jagged pier
it bom
tawdry dirge
just me thinking it will kill the other talents then AM
jagged pier
i see no issue in that because ive never talented out of AM for like 3 exapnsions now
blazing condor
I took me quite a while in SL to realize i didnt get DR anymore from avatar
ionic fern
On a side note, atleast according to current information, the "more effective" means:
IP = Shield increase
SS = damage/rage increase
TC= Slow/damage/rage increase
tawdry dirge
i dont know the other covenant/legos but kyrian isnt to bad or?
for the double lego case
ionic fern
Reprisal ftw in m+. ๐
It's too good to pass.
If you're doing content you are comfortable with (what ever key level it may be) - EM+Seismic, NF+Seismic will be big damage.
NL will probably remain with Reprisal due to how it helps you keep Glory going.
tawdry dirge
wonder if we can fre craft on any slot then the legos
cause otherwise i fear blocking tier chances
sudden kayak
do we put reprisal on our legs or feet
tawdry dirge
atm legs
sudden kayak
kk ty
hardy siren
with the set bonus, is the "increased effectiveness" just on damage or everything the ability does? e.g. rage generation and slow effect from thunderclap?
ionic fern
blazing condor
Wont you p much always use the avatar proc for SS
If you engage a new pack for example
Rav > charge > avatar > tc???
or revenge first ig since it doesnt build towards outrage anyway with rep
ionic fern
That's going to be tricky.
You have to have FAST FINGERS
Charge (Reprisal) = 40 Rage, Avatar = 30 Rage, if you SS you're going to overcap.
hardy siren
in general yeah but theres defo some application for kiting there too.
ionic fern
And if you add Spear/AA in there it gets messy
Honestly, our burst rage gain right now is insane.
hardy siren
gonna need something to effectively track onslaught also as it will proc outside of avatar too. might be that if you have say 5 stacks then use avatar it consumes all 13
blazing condor
Itโll be a cold day in hell where i dont press avatar on cd
Thats just kinda ass
hardy siren
Honestly, our burst rage gain right now is insane.
yeah im kinda excited tbh. might be you can do good things with anger management also, maybe even drop ravager for the clap talent again
hardy siren
Thats just kinda ass
yeah, but like you might generate 8 stacks from spending 240 rage outside of avatar also, then clap with it midpack
blazing condor
I just wouldnt hold off using avatar because i need to spend 70 more rage or whatever
hardy siren
or another 45 rage shield slam, thats good too haha
not sure how it will play out ofc, but you could maybe just spam two ignore pains as they're not GCD to get it
ionic fern
Anyone in game can give me the % and lvl of Unnerving Focus?
gaunt dawn
pika playing prot pala in keys ๐
ionic fern
QUICK SOMEONE START STREAMING PROT WARRIOR, THE SPOT IS OPEN.
jagged pier
QUICK SOMEONE START STREAMING PROT WARRIOR, THE SPOT IS OPEN.
OKAY WHEN WE DOING KEYS
ionic fern
Tonight.
ionic fern
yeah im kinda excited tbh. might be you can do good things with anger management...
Hope not.
Down with UF.
Secret tech btw.
We are all going Gnome now for the 10 extra rage.
ionic fern
If only.. ๐ฆ
I can't wait to start wasting Outburst procs accidentally on the wrong things tho.
ionic fern
My muscle memory is too strong.
Ravager->Charge->Avatar->Spear->PANIC TOO MUCH RAGE, IP!!!!!!!!!! -> Realization of what you just did
lime urchin
Ravager->Charge->Avatar->Spear->*PANIC TOO MUCH RAGE, IP!!!!!!!!!!* -> Realizati...
I have this macro for you that will solve that headache amigo
lime urchin
All three warrior tier bonuses look exciting!
strong forum
Really?
I think they look underwhelming
Especially arms
Wtf is prot pally bonus?? Hellooo that's OP af
Holy fuck
ionic fern
What is it?
strong forum
They get increased block chance from sotr
And when they block, they shoot a judgment at the target....
Totally not OP
ionic fern
LOL
strong forum
And vdh gets perma immo aura
Dk gets longer dancing rune weapon and gets 2 weapons
And when parrying drw performs a heart strike
brittle owl
Totally not OP
12% increased block chance is peanuts
and 33% chance on block is also kinda meh
granted this is gonna be very strong in aoe
but ST it's peanuts
strong forum
Who cares about St lol
Pally is already king of St dmg
It's aoe where they're average, this is insane on low pull counts
Free holy power
Free 10k dmg hits
Meanwhile our TC will crit for 6k once every 30-40 seconds
FUCKING HUUGE DUDE
SO GOOD
Or our SS will crit for 18k every 30-40 sec
ionic fern
Huh, i never realised Unnerving Focus does not affect Glory.
strong forum
HUUUUGE
lime urchin
Oh maybe I should check other tier sets if these look underwhelming
brittle owl
Meanwhile our TC will *crit* for 6k once every 30-40 seconds
i think you miss out on the fact that avatar will be a ginourmous cd
10% extra dam, 8 outburst stacks from the start and at least 16 more during it
strong forum
You can't spend 480 rage in less than 20 seconds without Lust or LS
ionic fern
16 stacks? o.o
You are not generating 480 rage in a 20 second window.
brittle owl
ok mb, you get 2 of em prob if you have the best setup to it
one free one one at the end
ionic fern
Jeah, Avatar + 1 extra during it is reasonable to assume.
brittle owl
with lust maybe you can squeeze 3
strong forum
Lust + Banner + reprisal + LS
brittle owl
idk of there are other haste procs to account for
hazy sinew
hi. i have question about prot warrior opener.
some guide suggested ravager as 1st spell to cast.
shouldn't it be better for DPS gain if we cast avatar before ravager?
strong forum
No
Ravager takes 1 global to deal damage and it doesn't snapshot
So you ravager - charge + avatar
hazy sinew
im sorry, what is "snapshot"?
strong forum
Snapshotting means, taking a previous existing buff and apply that to the ability
For the full duration of the ability
hazy sinew
so it takes 1 global to start deal damage?
strong forum
When it doesn't do that, attacks and dots of all sorts always re-calculate their dmg
Ravager lands, then takes like 1.5seconds before it does its first dmg tick
And if you avatar before that tick, it'll still do +20% dmg
ionic fern
Lust + Banner + reprisal + LS
Even with that it's ~400 ASSUMING YOU DON'T WASTE ANY.
strong forum
Kek yeah
ionic fern
Well, maybe if you get some lucky SS procs you can do iiit.
ionic fern
Wait, it's actually more since Avatar provides you with 1x 45 Rage SS..so PROBABLY do-able if the stars align perfectly.
Where's that NL raid preacher guy.
Bet he's happy now. ๐ฆ
urban portal
Don socket no more
ionic fern
The cap between the "good players" and "average players" is going to become even bigger now.
hazy sinew
follow up question.
so let's say i pop avatar late after ravager, and it already ticks it's damage. and i pop avatar. does the next ticks buffed with avatar?
urban portal
Yes
strong forum
Yes
urban portal
Conversely
If you are at [-2]tick and your ava times out
Your [-1] tick is weaker
hazy sinew
understood. thank you very much.
brittle owl
The cap between the "good players" and "average players" is going to become even...
that's good
that's good game design
getting passive 12% rando stat though
that's shit
strong forum
Reprisal already did that by a bit, and people already hate it :haha:
strong forum
It's true
Now a good pwar will do 12k dps and an average pwar will do 7k
With current numbers in mind
brittle owl
reprisal imo just makes the gameplay...weird ig?
ionic fern
I like Reprisal. ๐ฆ
brittle owl
zoom somewhere every few seconds
strong forum
Idk it's 2nd nature to me
brittle owl
ye no i just mean lookswise
ionic fern
Jeah, usually 1x Charge into a pack + Intervene is all you need in addition to SB.
strong forum
Intervene doesn't move you, charge you only do only every so often
ionic fern
There are very rare occasions when i need to do a 2nd Charge while mid-combat.
strong forum
Same
I officially quit back in April
But kept playing for weekly key until my sub ran out
ionic fern
New sub - Daily!!! Pay 50g to sub for a day and do your weekly!
ionic fern
Jep. ๐
ionic fern
Tho i think the token atm is like 310k?
So that would be around 10k for day.
strong forum
Damn 310?last time I had a token it was 180k
urban portal
I think most people would
ionic fern
A week ago it was 310
urban portal
Blizz would make significantly less money from raidloggwrs tho
It's 300 in eu 200 in na
Which makes sense
strong forum
5k per day sounds much more feasible than 150k a month
urban portal
China has too many gold farmers
strong forum
Imagine paying sub in China with gold
urban portal
You could realistically argue the diff between NA and eu is currency
strong forum
strong forum
You could realistically argue the diff between NA and eu is currency
In legion EU token was like 3x of NA token
For a bit
urban portal
Under efficient markets this would mean all the gold farmers would farm on na
Because you can make more money
Obv wow isn't real life
Since people play the game
chrome falcon
blizz very rude for making me pick between a big shield slam and a big(ish) ignore pain
chrome falcon
well exactly
but what if we accidentally spend the proc on the ignore pain
disaster.
ionic fern
Big disaster.
Maybe on some HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE magic hits in raids.
If you wanna be supportive.
chrome falcon
it does seem like an incredibly easy choice though considering the extra rage from the SS basically gives you 50% of an ignore pain anyway lol
ionic fern
Jeah.
I can't wait for them to buff the IP value even more thinking it would make us want to use the proc on IP then.
Inbound new play = Never Surrender and use all procs on IP.
chrome falcon
hey i'd be down for that, we're going to be drowning in rage this patch and it would be nice to have something good to spend it on ๐ข
junior igloo
I am way more interested in the other bonus.
Wonder if they introduce a penalty for Anger Management because otherwise the other talents become completely unviable again.
Also the synergy with Venthyr could be interesting
chrome falcon
Synergy with venthyr?
ionic fern
The Venthyr Legendary i think.
Condemn increases Avatar duration by 2.5 (?)
Or was it 2.
๐ค
chrome falcon
Oh did they change that from LS to avatar?
ionic fern
Jeah.
chrome falcon
Yeah I dunno you're probably getting more avatar uptime from the rage from a different covenant
ionic fern
It's 2.5s
Well..from sims it was like a ~10% increase in Avatar on ST.
Considering we only get the benefit at the start of the fight and at the end of the fight.
In m+ it could potentially lead to something but that would mean you are forced to use Condemn on AoE which ideally you do not want to do.
cloud gorge
Condemn is so cursed
ionic fern
I am way more interested in the other bonus.
Wonder if they introduce a penalty ...
Synergy between Glory/Reprisal and the new tier set is going to be fun tho. ๐
ionic fern
Condemn is so cursed
Agreed..they should add some AoE aspect to it. ๐ฆ
median tulip
but what if we accidentally spend the proc on the ignore pain
Could be worse, you could press Thunderclap
cloud gorge
Is it even worth using the buff on thunderclap in any situation? Like 10 targets
Don't play prot much but thunder clap is very noodly this expac
chrome falcon
Depends what you define as worth it
cloud gorge
Yeah true
chrome falcon
If you want the rage press SS if you want the damage you probably TC on like 3+ targets
Is PTR up yet? I'm kinda curious if we cap at 8 stacks of Outburst
Or if it goes higher
Don't want to pop avatar when i'm at 7 natural stacks and just lose them...
cloud gorge
Nah no ptr yet
They couldn't get it ready in time for thanksgiving holiday I think
So won't be for another week if its not today which they said is unlikely
median tulip
Don't play prot much but thunder clap is very noodly this expac
I miss BfA Thunderclap spam ๐ญ
chrome falcon
idk i think two expansions of only pressing TC would get very boring
median tulip
Not as boring as the current iteration of Warrior
cloud gorge
All the damage has just gone into revenge now instead
chrome falcon
but revenge doesn't do any damage either ๐ฆ
cloud gorge
Stomping the floor is cooler imo anyway than slashy
If only you could run reprisal + reverb
median tulip
Revenge is ok damage, but it needs a better animation, NGL
cloud gorge
Yeah it's not very satisfying
ionic fern
Is it even worth using the buff on thunderclap in any situation? Like 10 targets
Well, just checking some random log, Shield Slam did ~3200 avg hit. increase that by 200% it's 9600
TC on the same log did 1.2k, increase it by 200% it's ~3600
So in theory on 3 targets a cast of TC does more damage.
But it does not take into account the 10 vs 30 extra rage gained.
That's an additional Revenge for the SS.
median tulip
So in theory on 3 targets a cast of TC does more damage.
But it does not take in...
Shield Slam resets as well
chrome falcon
oh man we'll be top dps for like the first global of the fight if our first SS crits, perfect
median tulip
oh man we'll be top dps for like the first global of the fight if our first SS c...
Except you won't have the stacks up for the first global
cloud gorge
Avatar
chrome falcon
Except you will, because avatar gives you 8
cloud gorge
Instant bonk
median tulip
True
median timber
sick sentinel
Glorious reprisal soon
chrome falcon
FOR GLORY 
elfin surge
is that only dependabt on having a 2 set or 4 set bonus for outburst? or ignoring the tier set its gucchi for glory reprisal?
chrome falcon
glory reprisal was already looking very strong before this
this doesn't make it look that much better but it's still probably going to be best from what i understand
mellow bridge
it makes it look better comparatively to kyrian
since glory gives more rage to feed into the tier set again
chrome falcon
yeah and the tier set gives more rage to feed into glory
but it's not like HUGE or anything
chrome falcon
i don't think that's a question anymore
i really liked bolster on some fights this tier as necro but
time for that talent to go back to the dirt where it belongs
strong forum
yeah not gonna happen lol
maybe 18k
but not 25k
well i guess with 278 ilvl itll be possible
brittle owl
your face'll be possible
sick sentinel
It's gunna be am clearly bc 4set gives both us to avatar
And so you get more avatars from that
Ava when popped gives some rage as well so you cloud spend it onl banner
wild hemlock
wont venthyr with 4 piece do pretty fat damage raid tanking?
sick sentinel
Too bad it doesn't currently affect execure/condemn
wild hemlock
the tier piece?
strong forum
wont venthyr with 4 piece do pretty fat damage raid tanking?
gna be hard to beat glory
you will have stupid amounts of uptime on glory with reprisal
sick sentinel
Yeah, I would rather see that effect, if you get 8 or pop avatar you can do non execute-hp range excutes
strong forum
i doubt having a bit longer avatar is gonna be relevant enough
sick sentinel
NOT the range of execute ability how far I can cast it
What do you call that execute any time e random? Is for arms talent
strong forum
sudden death
sick sentinel
All 3 warrior specs are huge interest in sudden death because al3 use execute
So it could replace 200% tc, I would change tc to be a sudden death on 8 stacks
I fee, like you'd get to 8 stacks randomly and hit tc (by accident) and then it hits for jack shit and then you just get feelsbads
ionic fern
No thank you. I want a aoe option as well.
sick sentinel
How much is average tc cast anyway with buff
ionic fern
sick sentinel
I wasn't taking in aoe option, sort of like if you ever played a race mage your stuff will trigger a free ae (basically thunderclap) or missiles
Point being, whenever I get a buff that buffs next ability I use, 1 charge, I then use wrong ability personally
strong forum
takes extra attention
to play optimally next patch
as ive said before, average pwar will do 7k, but good pwars will do like 12k++ dps ( with current numbers)
smoky wave
So, excluding tuning, it's looking necro for raids? Kyrian m+? Might need to start grinding renown. Don't fancy trying to keep mobs in AA.
inland raft
Keeping mobs in aa is pretty trivial
Just dont move eapeciall since incoming damage is heavily reduced while they in it as well
chrome falcon
12k nomer? Like on single target? Good lord
sick sentinel
like, 9.2 will be final with the 6mo ago event and this weeks events?
from activision-bobby
i swear ion or someone in the video was saying "we have more to talk about after 9.2" implying possibility 9.3
strong forum
i swear ion or someone in the video was saying "we have more to talk about after...
No it's already confirmed that 9.2 is the last 9.X patch
There is no 9.3
Shadowlands itself ends on 9.2
Or well, 9.2.5
sick sentinel
i just kinda hope that warcraft doesn't die with 9.2
sick sentinel
blizzard probaly already working on 13.0
strong forum
13 is a stretch
But the idea of 11 is probably already existing
10.0 being worked on the most rn I imagine
9.2 is mostly done internally
Ptr will do the numbers
sick sentinel
just make a good game thats complete is all i can say to blizzard for 10.0
sick sentinel
i say cata is where it all took a shit
strong forum
It's always the "next patch/expansion" will fix it
sick sentinel
everyone i knew IRL who played, played until icc
sick sentinel
all my friends at the time
strong forum
I was the only kid in school who played video games outside of cod
chrome falcon
^ this so much, being 12 and trying to get friends into RuneScape and wow when they were all sweaty cod demons
pain
chrome falcon
pain.
sick sentinel
as you can see, i have played many many hours of military games
(im positive tons of that is AFK at menus 6800hrs)
sick sentinel
thats literal 300 days + played for me nearly
strong forum
2.5k+ in d3, 800 in mw2 and 250 in blops
sick sentinel
world of tanks, thats a god damn tough game
you have to be one smart bastard to play that right
inland raft
So we thinking glory in keys as well as raid?
strong forum
For keys prolly NF but will have to see
distant crystal
i have like 8k hours in dota2
ionic fern
103% blocked hits
?
strong forum
I blocked 3 more hits than attacked me!
crystal iris
Set bonus seems cool?
jagged pier
there are a lot better ones
crystal iris
Wish it buffed revenge instead
strong forum
The prot pally one has a 0.1sec CD
So in theory
They could throw 10 judgements a second
sick sentinel
100% + crit block trololol
tepid nest
With kyrian leggo + sotr dmg leggo their damage is going to be fucking wild, and they're gonna have like 70% block chance
strong forum
Vdh and druid are straight up broken
Like stupid broken
Vdh will double their dps
And druid will be even more immortal
sick sentinel
rep EM will still be broken as shit im guessing for fort weeks, everything forced into your circle and can't move while group wails on it, you get more crit do more dmg and get parry SS
jagged pier
no
strong forum
Napkin math amounted to a vdh doing 15k dps
currently
If they had the bonus right now
smoky wave
And druid will be even more immortal
Yeah, but we get 10% reduced damage on our dps cool down!
ionic fern
Isn't VDH super boring tho?
crystal iris
Is immolation aura that good?
sick sentinel
if anyones interested, the numbers i'm shooting for when 9.2, is 1050 haste, 1050crit, 650 mastery (foreverbanner+400), 0 versa
strong forum
They will have perma uptime on immo aura
sick sentinel
don't pay any tax stat that way
strong forum
And they have a conduit which increases immo aura dmg for every dmg tick it does
So if it keeps on ramping
And ramping
It hits hard
sick sentinel
and only swap to versa if i need it
strong forum
The 15k dps is taken from a +26 SD
crystal iris
Although I guess if pack gets vaporizedโฆ
strong forum
So, already a challenging difficulty
strong forum
It's some blade dance stuff, but didn't read what it did
distant crystal
immo gonna clap
sick sentinel
i wonder how madge pug healers are going to be if thats protwarriors no versa at all only mastery crit haste
for like 15s-20's
distant crystal
err, i meant vengeance lol
mellow gorge
Hmm, so the meta tanks next patch are gonna be druid vdh all over again?
distant crystal
havoc looks kinda boring, we don't even press blade dance in ST mostly
strong forum
Hmm, so the meta tanks next patch are gonna be druid vdh all over again?
All tanks except monk and pwar I think
crystal iris
I mean the prot damage buff seems really nice?
crystal iris
We get an extra 10% in avatar and it buffs our thunderclap
gaunt dawn
๐
crystal iris
Which yeah thunderclap sucks but maybe it sucks less in 9.2?
strong forum
Set bonuses
sick sentinel
crystal iris
sick sentinel
"pwars"
blazing condor
Yeah thats what i said Panth
strong forum
You'd only thunderclap on specific target counts I imagine
mellow gorge
Ty
strong forum
Otherwise always SS
crystal iris
We ya big aoe packs pop avatar while you charge and thunderclap immediately
inland raft
Do we reroll pink prot? If squint hard enough can pretend its brown
crystal iris
Thatโs some pretty nice aoe threat I do that anyways now
gaunt dawn
it all depends on dmg taken profiles
sick sentinel
paladins are self righteous douchebags
gaunt dawn
ye i hate paladin mains
mellow gorge
gaunt dawn
bunch of dum dums if you ask me
mellow gorge
Ah
gaunt dawn
i mean you can
will just be more infrequent
druid bonus is that you get beserk when you barkskin
mellow gorge
So vdh will be the meta
sick sentinel
if blizzard fixed rogue i would play it
mellow gorge
Again
sick sentinel
take away the gun
gaunt dawn
and whilst youre in beserk you pulse big dam + heal
strong forum
So vdh will be the meta
Too soon to say
mellow gorge
And unless the outburst effect changes
mellow gorge
Pwars won't be stronk
sick sentinel
nononono pnath is right
cuz
its already in he meta
so they will expect it to stay same/get better
strong forum
Fel dev dumbo
sick sentinel
protection warrior is fine, always has been and will be
strong forum
Ofc
inland raft
Some are just more fine then others comrade
gaunt dawn
legit every tank is fine
inland raft
That pink prot looking pretty
gaunt dawn
all of the defined high end content in game
sick sentinel
i COULD very easily be running +15s with pugs or 20's with groups, but i'm just too retarded and i freak out
strong forum
mellow gorge
So
gaunt dawn
so
inland raft
So
gaunt dawn
your choice doesnt matter
mellow gorge
Why exactly is vdh the pet tank
gaunt dawn
gottem
mellow gorge
Alongside druid
sick sentinel
mellow gorge
Why do we get shat on :(
sick sentinel
ME AND HEALER IN KEY
gaunt dawn
idk why people rate VDH+Druid so high
sick sentinel
guy yelling is healer driver is me
gaunt dawn
bunch of outdated meta slaves
sick sentinel
and i don't fucking listen
inland raft
Arms got shafted pretty hard too at least the angry furious brown spec was given some love
strong forum
Why do we get shat on :(
Cuz people don't like how prot plays
sick sentinel
just trying to get across finish line
blazing condor
strong forum
Panth is why
inland raft
Imagine not liking the best tank
blazing condor
The people who know the most are the ones who play the least
gaunt dawn
i can do mage tower at level 50
mellow gorge
Cuz people don't like how prot plays
I just want some more effects, not some long every 8 ss you get 1 ss buffed :(
blazing condor
Tier set is ass
strong forum
As I have said billions of times before I'll say it again
Pwar is not popular or even a 2nd pick unless it's literally OP
gaunt dawn
same can be said for every tank
blazing condor
Tier sets should spice up playstyles
strong forum
Bdk is always popular
blazing condor
especially if its introduced as last patch of an xpac
strong forum
So is monk
strong forum
Guardian vdh and pally, yeah, they aren't always
gaunt dawn
that Prot Pal was more popular than BDK last tier
strong forum
Or rather rarely
inland raft
Pally looking sick too
mellow gorge
I mean i can atleast confidently say that I know my class after choosing to play it for literally the shittiest expansion for it
sick sentinel
inland raft
They already at what 40ish block?
sick sentinel
give me this for prot warrior talents replace it with top left lvl 15 extra rage
strong forum
Still a dead talent
sick sentinel
attack from father
strong forum
Why would I pick that
sick sentinel
not as dead as you think makes dps giga easier
lofty widget
mobs are gonna be in your face anyway
distant crystal
because it also affects all your abilities
sick sentinel
yes
mellow gorge
I mean i can atleast confidently say that I know my class after choosing to play it for literally the shittiest expansion for it
๐
sick sentinel
effects all your attacks with abilityes
strong forum
I mean i can atleast confidently say that I know my class after choosing to play...
Always warri
ionic fern
I don't think i've ever had a situation where i went "Damn, i wish my abilities hit 3 yards further".
I mean..ok, great..but it's nothing amazing.
๐
distant crystal
i mean, it does just as much for warrior as it did for outlaw, and it was autopick for outlaw
strong forum
As a tank, being in range of hitting something is never an issue
wild hemlock
i COULD very easily be running +15s with pugs or 20's with groups, but i'm just ...
wait you still dont do 15s lol
distant crystal
As a tank, being in range of hitting something is never an issue
of course it is lol
strong forum
How
distant crystal
if every mob just rushed into melee range of the tank it wouldn't, but they don't
lofty widget
then you dont have aggro
sick sentinel
imagine the difference between having crackling thunder on but its for your revenge and SS
strong forum
I don't play crackling thunder
distant crystal
mobs cast, and shoot ranged attacks, and jump back, etc
distant crystal
that's because t-clap is dookie
sick sentinel
we used to right, 9.0 and bfa
lofty widget
it's preference, same as stormbolt/dt
crystal iris
arent we supposed to use Crackling? xD
inland raft
Dont worry 10.0 tclap replaces all out abilites we just spam tclap and nothing else and it does 10x damage
strong forum
Yes but the 4 extra yards on it are effectively useless
sick sentinel
wait you still dont do 15s lol
i don't lol, i only run my own key
strong forum
Outside of kiting
sick sentinel
and i pug
crystal iris
bounding i guess?
ionic fern
arent we supposed to use Crackling? xD
You CAN use it - but you don't have to. Pick your poison.
strong forum
I always run bounding
I don't see value in crackling and you can't make me think otherwise
sick sentinel
cuz, i got tired of being yelled at for ruin other ppls keys so at least this way i have to take more reponsibility in trying to planshit out
distant crystal
so a talent that gives 1 crappy ability 4 yds is sometimes taken
wild hemlock
cuz, i got tired of being yelled at for ruin other ppls keys so at least this wa...
weve been running the same dungeons for a year+
crystal iris
yeah I find If I use leap to gather a big pull its not up when i want to use it to either kite or ump out for reprisal
wild hemlock
cuz, i got tired of being yelled at for ruin other ppls keys so at least this wa...
you can easily tank 15s just apply and jump in
sick sentinel
weve been running the same dungeons for a year+
yeah well, many ways a pull can go wrong in pug especial
ionic fern
It's taken because there's nothing else on the row. ๐
wild hemlock
yeah well, many ways a pull can go wrong in pug especial
ive pugged ksm in the first 2 weeks both patches on 2 toons. i promise you its not bad
distant crystal
are we talking about the rogue talent or CT now?
crystal iris
they should replace menace with storm bolt
lofty widget
think the main case being made for crackling is initial threat if the pack is spread, and if you have to kite
inland raft
You mean you dont take menace so you can troll your dps?
crystal iris
or rumbling earth
sick sentinel
so, whenever i did this last dungeon, we timed it and it was a 13 dos, i did 4.8k is that still low for 243 2 dom sockets?
crystal iris
think the main case being made for crackling is initial threat if the pack is sp...
I guess thats what ravager is for
strong forum
The main case for crackling is people seeing a dmg ability getting smth vs a non dmg ability getting something
mellow gorge
Ngl
strong forum
So they pick the dmg ability getting something
mellow gorge
A Thunderclap echo would be a nice passive effect
strong forum
But getting 3 yards range on abilities that I will hit anyway vs devastator? Lol fuck no
sick sentinel
do i need to do more dps for my item level?
wild hemlock
so, whenever i did this last dungeon, we timed it and it was a 13 dos, i did 4.8...
watch the raid videos and pug heroic once a week
ionic fern
Crackling Thunder is a great option for m+, don't get me wrong..but me personally - i'm too used to Bounding Stride already. ๐ฆ
I get triggered if i don't get my movement speed buff and frequent jumps.
crystal iris
yeah like it leaves a mini Eathquake? like a consacration haha
mellow gorge
Ye, make it deal 50% dmg of the first cast or something like that
inland raft
Ya devastator is just auto pick until something changes in the core kit
lofty widget
50 % of 0 is still 0
wild hemlock
do i need to do more dps for my item level?
at least do 1 15 a week fail or not for vault
mellow gorge
50 % of 0 is still 0
I wanna look cool leave me be
sick sentinel
i try to push my key to a 15 and if i can do that good, but i normally get between 10-15's done
have always been cautious slow player
crystal iris
you guys run BSC in raid too?
lofty widget
generally bv in raid
sick sentinel
i don't raid because its a huge time and gold investment along with theres a sort of stigma that goes along with "wow raider"
crystal iris
heroic pug raid is very casual
strong forum
BV is more dmg and more surv in raid
crystal iris
especially as tank yogi
strong forum
You need constant 3++ targets for bsc to beat BV
crystal iris
kk
sick sentinel
but yeah, that link i showed taht should show all the keys i've ran
strong forum
Heroic raiding with capable people takes like 2hrs per week, people overexaggerate how much time commitment raiding takes
crystal iris
you can even hop in for a few bosses and hop out
strong forum
Mythic is also fairly chill, but I hate playing on a schedule so I stopped raiding
crystal iris
in pugs lol
I find on big packs in M+ between intervening (to get it on CD) plus the free revenge plus spear, i often overcap a bit
sick sentinel
||https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGXjoAqjKFU|| volume warning
but i've been in a raid like this
and never again thanks
wild hemlock
i don't raid because its a huge time and gold investment along with theres a sor...
your wild bro
crystal iris
I use a SB charge and an IP because i need to dump but to dump enough to spear without overcapping i have to like mash IP a few times i find
ravager + 2x reprisal procs + spear is just so much rage lol
sick sentinel
your wild bro
honestly, thats just my real take on it
thats how i really feel about raiding
crystal iris
i mean you can pug the first 3 heroic bosses in less than 30 minutes
and the tanking is dead simple if you run 15s
like you would laugh if you knew how easy tanking terrague was
inland raft
Only hard thing about raid tanking is staying awake despite the boredom
crystal iris
not falling asleep and missing your taunt haha
mellow gorge
Its all fun and games
Until the shambler in the 2nd boss has targeted you for far too long
And no one is cleaving it
strong forum
Only hard thing about raid tanking is staying awake despite the boredom
Try raidleading
And being vocal
Then being the tank is the exact opposite of boring
sick sentinel
oh, if anybodies up to it to, posted a picture and links to my weak auras, so hopefully i can learn on my own how to fix and prevent these errors, delete redundant stuff and get nice pro ui
inland raft
I used to, stopped tanking/leading in mop though and then spent a ehile as a dps main and now i tank keys and dps raid
Much more enjoyable
crystal iris
I think i prefer healing raid
strong forum
I found raiding as dps to be the most boring :haha:
Cuz it's literally only your rotation
0 mechanics
sick sentinel
i don't have a video uploaded yet with my current UI, but i can get one of those going on youtube later this weekend
crystal iris
otherwise its just "do your dps rotation" rinse and repeat
inland raft
Ya both boring but now i dont have to worry about getting distracted and missing my taunt
crystal iris
Cuz it's literally only your rotation
agree 100%
inland raft
I can watch all the netflix i want
crystal iris
Ive got an Rsham for raid much more fun
boreal spruce
Hey! Looking to come back to prot in 9.2, what is the community feeling on the tier set?
sweet summit
2 set boring
4 set epic
you can game 2set with IP hack but i mostly just a SS damage/rage gen buff buff
chrome falcon
the 4 set is seriously nuts i love it
avatar uptime is going to be absolutely nuts
boreal spruce
you can game 2set with IP hack but i mostly just a SS damage/rage gen buff buff
What is SS?
chilly brook
I'm happy with both sets
boreal spruce
Ofc, I feel stupid now
chilly brook
ยฏ\_(ใ)_/ยฏ
chrome falcon
2 set is pretty bad on its own but yeah when you add that 4 it's juicy
sweet summit
yeah that's a good way to put it
sick sentinel
its not that bad honestly
sick sentinel
well, then blizz must be actively making those decisions to not bring us up to par
chrome falcon
do we know if outburst stacks cap at 8?
chilly brook
I mean 200% increased damage on your shield slam every 12 revenge casts sounds decent
chrome falcon
does it?
chilly brook
And its realistically going to be way less
sweet summit
do we know if outburst stacks cap at 8?
@ionic fern 
chilly brook
Since shield block costs rage as well
And you're naturally going to IP here and there
sweet summit
i assume it caps at 8
chrome falcon
yeah sure every 240 rage you get a slightly better shield slam, i'm not saying it's useless
sweet summit
but i don't know for sure
chrome falcon
i dunno erga i really hope not
because then like
imagine you have 6 stacks of outburst and avatar is off CD
jagged pier
its not slightly better its 200% damage and more rage than usual
same with TC slowing more than usual
chrome falcon
you don't want to pop avatar and waste those stacks but you also don't want to sit on avatar
sweet summit
yeah i get that
chrome falcon
yeah sure it's a better shield slam whatever i just think there's no point in a discussion about how good the 2 set is on its own
because getting 4 set sounds very easy
sweet summit
yeah the implementation of tier gear in 9.2 is sick, even m+ andys can get it "easily" 
sick sentinel
IP x 2 is 80 rage for 2 gcd's thats 8% healing (indom) 8 second CDR ava/wall, and 1/3rd of OB charge
so, 10 seconds per OB charge
if you could just spam IP
sick sentinel
which is the biggest dump beside execute
chrome falcon
getting a crit shield slam with banner+avatar+BV is going to do like
shit idk like 30k by the end of the patch lmao
sweet summit
BV 
chrome falcon
surely we run BV next patch
torpid saffron
Good evening, everyone! I need some help with my trinkets, i am looking for some advices. I just started doing higher keys (19-20-21) and i was wondering what trinkets should i choose. ATM running with Aegis and Old Warrior's Soul. However it feels like in some dungeons i get melted by magic damage and i was questioning myself if i should start using the Blood-Spattered Scale instead of Old Warrior's Soul. Here is a print with all my gear and trinkets, please help! ๐ Also, should i run Anger Management instead of Heavy Repercussions in DOS/HOA/MOTS/PF ?
chilly brook
shit idk like 30k by the end of the patch lmao
My max crit on guardian 10 ilvl ago was 24k
Sooooo
You're talking a 60k shield slam
chrome falcon
If you're dying to magic damage then yeah run AM, you shouldn't really need to run double defensive but again, whatever will keep you alive
kinda depends on the ilvl of your soul and scale
jagged pier
u shouldnt be running HR at all at that lvl
chilly brook
Like really I think this shield slam thing is being slept on pretty hard
jagged pier
and u def dont need defensive trinkets ither
your probably doing somthing slightly wrong
have u got logs?
sick sentinel
i personally think HR feels better to play, but AM is good if you are good with managing CDS
chrome falcon
yeah griff i think we're actually going to be competitive on ST now, the other tank sets are nowhere near as good on single target
sick sentinel
i' m really shit at managing my SW usage
torpid saffron
Soul is heroic, Scale is 246
chrome falcon
HR will feel better to play because it's easier and covers mistakes but at 21s you should really be learning to CD properly
chilly brook
It won't be groundbreaking granted but it is a sizable damage increase that will be up quite often
chrome falcon
also how on earth did you hit a 24k SHIELD SLAM
10 ilvl ago
my max execute with full gear cap and every possible damage increase is 27k
torpid saffron
u shouldnt be running HR at all at that lvl
So you're saying i should be running with AM in all dungeons and stick with Warrior's Soul ?
chrome falcon
there's no way you did 24k this patch with a shield slam
jagged pier
So you're saying i should be running with AM in all dungeons and stick with Warr...
yes
torpid saffron
What keys should i start using 2 defensive trinkets and HR ?
chrome falcon
you should not need HR at this point
torpid saffron
I was only running it cuz i saw other high prot warrs using it aswell
chrome falcon
yeah but those guys are freakazoids doing like 25s i'm not convinced they play the same class we do
sweet summit
my highest SS is 11.7k
sick sentinel
it feels safer for me to play, so thats what i do
mak enough mistakes may as well take stuff to cover it while i learn
chrome falcon
yeah like 10-12k is the very high end for shield slams
jagged pier
What keys should i start using 2 defensive trinkets and HR ?
24s 25s
torpid saffron
Yeah, it feels a bit safer for me aswell, but reducing cd of SW could also be the thing too
sweet summit
but that's also as NF, so no banner buff
sick sentinel
yeah, but i'm dog shit at using my SW LS correctly
torpid saffron
So, out of all those trinkets that i showed.. should i stick with Warrior's Soul and Aegis ?
chrome falcon
Ideally yes but frankly if you're still dying then a second defensive trinket will help you not die
Buuut OWS is more damage and more haste and killing stuff faster = less damage taken
So if you can make OWS work, you should
jagged pier
i mean looking at a log i found your general play is pretty good but your playing HR so your blocked hit are infalted and still less than they should be, but like u cst SW twice and LS once over 30 mins
chilly brook
Looks like (and this is super duper napkin mathy) you'll be able to get ~13 empowered shield slams over the course of a 4 minute fight
chrome falcon
people gotta stop underestimating LS that CD is crazy good
chilly brook
people gotta stop underestimating LS that CD is crazy good
LS is stuck in vanilla
torpid saffron
Yeah, that's the problem.. i suck at using my SW And LS ๐ฆ
chilly brook
It's a dps CD in current form
strong forum
Looks like (and this is super duper napkin mathy) you'll be able to get ~13 empo...
Every 30-40 seconds not counting avatar procs
sweet summit
Ls fucking sucks so much holy fuck i hate pressing that button on god please buff it the only reason it is worth pressing is unnerving focus fuck sake please make it useful
strong forum
Facts
chilly brook
Every 30-40 seconds not counting avatar procs
This is just based on my guardian log adding up all my casts of abilities that cost rage and then dividing by 240
sick sentinel
no, i love LS
jagged pier
Ls fucking sucks so much holy fuck i hate pressing that button on god please buf...
yer but if your dying to magic damage its going to help same if u want to to more damage it literally gives u both
chrome falcon
you'll learn to respect LS when we have banner but man i wish it was 2 min CD baseline
torpid saffron
So in 9.2 we'll go Necrolord ?
sick sentinel
not really
chrome falcon
LS is a fine defensive
jagged pier
well not with unerving focus
chilly brook
Its literally only useful for rage gen
jagged pier
base yes it sucks
sick sentinel
when do you ever want the tank to have less hp
chrome falcon
unnerving is a fucking nuts amount of rage generation at this point
chrome falcon
do you play with conduits?
sick sentinel
yeah, so you use it so you don't die
chrome falcon
sure the base text is garbage
it needs a rework i agree
in BFA it was trash without bolster and now it's trash without unnerving
sick sentinel
last stand should imply that you are about to fuckin die
chilly brook
A conduit making an ability somewhat worth pressing doesnt suddenly make it an insanely good ability
sick sentinel
you can only use it when you are below 2/3rds hp
chrome falcon
Dude idk I think it's really fucking hard to die if you have last stand up
chilly brook
It's still very easy to die
sick sentinel
NO
sick sentinel
i hate cheat death
strong forum
Fact
chilly brook
Last stand isn't going to save you from 2 unkicked bolts in HoA
strong forum
Remove all cheat death mechanics from the game
chilly brook
Even with rage gen
sick sentinel
cheat death you trigger it accidently you feel like a moron and fuck up for real and die
i played rogue in og tbc
when this talent come out for us
strong forum
I'm all for removing all cheat death mechanics, it's dumb in d3 and it's dumb in wow
chilly brook
Last Stand isn't going to save you in any meaningful situation where actual DR might
chrome falcon
But yeah it could do with a rework because it keeps needing borrowed power to be good
chilly brook
Its Vamp Blood without everything else that makes Vamp Blood valuable to DK
sick sentinel
there should absolutely be a random dodge miss % chance that you just straight up avoid attacks cuz reasons at random
chilly brook
On double the CD
chrome falcon
Yeah idk griff maybe if you're pushing high keys it's not doing much for you but I found it incredibly useful on mythic sylvanas
sick sentinel
but again like 2-5% of attacks
chilly brook
I mean bolster should just be baseline
Especially since reprisal is just a bandaid
A good bandaid but a bandaid nonetheless
chrome falcon
Hey maybe if we all start playing with banner
Blizz will fix the bug where unnerving focus doesn't work with rage generated from banner!
chrome falcon
welcome to the crew please enjoy your complimentary fleshcraft
sick sentinel
way ahead of ya'll
chrome falcon
i keep forgetting that banner has the simp aspect at this point
after a few raids of it constantly hitting my fucking hpala
i just gave up on it
chilly brook
i keep forgetting that banner has the simp aspect at this point
Oh you bet your ass I'm not going to go out of my way to buff people
chrome falcon
we arranged one spot for my rets to stand on to get it during BL on sylvanas
and that was as far as i went
the problem is that it's insane on boomies
but the boomies don't want it until 20 seconds after they pop frenzy
sick sentinel
i just want to see more NF paladins whenever possible, would make me happy
chrome falcon
and i'm not leaping out to banner my boomies 20 seconds after pull
chilly brook
I'll find a weakaura for some people to grab if they want to try and fight for my banner buff when the CD is up
But I'm pressing that shit on CD
chrome falcon
Absolutely
torpid saffron
Are we gonna switch to Necrolord in 9.2 for M+ ? Or are we still gonna stick with kyrians
chilly brook
Are we gonna switch to Necrolord in 9.2 for M+ ? Or are we still gonna stick wi...
In m+ Kyrian will be disgusting
chrome falcon
IF the banner is really strong in your group I think you might stay banner if you have really good co-ordination
torpid saffron
Good or bad ? ๐
chilly brook
Spear is going to top your damage easily and you're not giving up reprisal
chilly brook
Plus your revenges are gonna hit like trucks inside of spear window
sick sentinel
oohhhhh i have to work on a weak aura for 2 people that it just tells that person to stand 8 yards of me all time for intercept
just something simple to share with range/healer
chrome falcon
why 8 yards huh
sick sentinel
fml i'm thinking charge lol, perhaps thats what i'm thinking, intercept them at 8y charge back in
chrome falcon
i kinda wish we had some way to increase our rage cap because during CDs we're just going to be spamming excess ignore pains in raids
sick sentinel
i mean, technically gnome, but yeah
chilly brook
ยฏ\_(ใ)_/ยฏ
At least it'll be a damage gain down the line now
In a roundabout way anyways
sick sentinel
gnome IS more rage pool, i'm just sayin
chilly brook
gnome IS more rage pool, i'm just sayin
Look I might go alliance but I'm never touching that god forsaken race
sick sentinel
is there a limit to how small you can get gnome?