crit mastery neck (with socket)
haste vers ring (no socket)
#protection
craggy pilot
for what?
isnt Stitchflesh Signet worth upgrading?
jagged pier
maybe
cerulean sparrow
is the +5% movement speed gem from BFA worth using in M+? having increased m/s feels really good when trying to get out of aoe and puddles and in general through unmountable dungeons like TOP and SD
jagged pier
no
restive ice
Hi , can you intervene the targeted bleed application on the -healing lieutenant in keys
As in intervene someone who's getting it , you get the bleed instead and just clear it with a kyrian pot
jagged pier
🤷
halcyon shard
doesnt it aoe?
distant crystal
kinda curious if it will AOE around you if you intervene it
but you should be able to, I believe evasion works on it
sweet summit
it can be dodged and parried, but i dont think intervene works
vagrant sable
im pretty late to the party, but i just got thunderfury, anyone got any recommendations for transmog that goes with it?
vagrant sable
my bad sorry. ill repost there
craggy pilot
ok how the fk do i do the first pull in HOA? 🤔 the fucking ranged ones wont get close
and people cant kill the shard for the life of them
lofty widget
pull on top of the shard and wait for the houndmaster to jump in melee? unless im thinking of another pull
craggy pilot
ye the houndmaster didnt jump in melee
do i need to stack the pack on houndmaster?
anyway we died when shard was 25% hp
lofty widget
he jumps to a player, so tell ppl to stack in melee
craggy pilot
so guess its a bit of a spicy pull if the DPS arent rdy for it
lofty widget
it is quite spicy, ive begun pulling up to the casters and then chaining in the shard when they are dead
at least in pugs
craggy pilot
do you then luft the start or after the casters die?
lofty widget
still at start
primal cape
and people cant kill the shard for the life of them
are you picking the 2 guys left stairs ?
blazing condor
im pretty late to the party, but i just got thunderfury, anyone got any recommen...
Back in my day whe i got it you slapped Mongoose on it. But now you have like a billion different ones so try and find whatever fits ur mog
vagrant sable
i meant armour sets / shields that fit nice with it 🙂 but didnt even think about wep enchant so thanks for that 😄
lime mirage
Am I dumb? Can't the Spell Reflect/Block spreadsheet be downloaded/exported?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vQgrszRE22Brb0f5k761vUXVe7MD1-qHThpalxzn0zWFRdQqrh0hM5LcQNoa-lLz4781S5rH2e9tRXG/pubhtml
@shut summit could you perhaps help me out with this? Is it intentionally restricted from being downloaded/exported?
craggy pilot
are you picking the 2 guys left stairs ?
was doing like this
craggy pilot
its not 1 pull tho lol
sweet summit
average guardian druid pull
craggy pilot
its just how i usually do my routes 😄
pull size depends on party and other things
this normal amount of healing for a +17 HOA?
feels like everyone was taking a shit ton of dmg, and healer was constantly oom...
never seen a shaman be so OOM
he was 10% mana after 1st pull
lofty widget
the only aoe isss shards, rapid fire and thrusts
craggy pilot
ye, or people standing in shit
lofty widget
your melee dps might have been monkeys tho lol
craggy pilot
standing in the Fence spell maybe 🤷
lofty widget
yea
craggy pilot
kekw
craggy pilot
feel like im doing way less dps as Kyr 🤔
then again i dont have the bottom talent yet
i guess the 25% crit from Korayn was pretty crazy
strong forum
Only with mik 57 kyrian becomes roughly equal to NF in dmg output
jagged pier
@strong forum LETS GOOOOO
strong forum
Yes dude
rancid ember
Wow respect for Jakey 📉
chilly brook
<@!192743144276623360> LETS GOOOOO
We can't be friends anymore
jagged pier
😦
rancid ember
Can't believe you did that tbh
rancid ember
Panda is TOP tier
jagged pier
but i was spending so much one deviate fish
rancid ember
If I could be VDH Panda. I'd fuckin do it
jagged pier
it was time to swap
true olive
Thats not gonna save you on deviate fish tho
sweet kayak
Never play with a tank from Syria, I just DC'ed at the last boss because electricity went down, 35 min wasted 😩
strong forum
Lol
rancid ember
Lol what
jagged pier
chilly brook
strong forum
Nice cock @tank
balmy coral
Move over Prot Pallies
strong forum
Getting there!
rancid ember
Is there anyway to disable this shitty Soulbind while going that path?
Keeps fucking me over when I have it for some planned pulls like the 7 pack of Spires after 1st boss on right side.
strong forum
No
jagged pier
just dont dip below 35%
rancid ember
Pretty hard with that 1st boss on high keys though :/
Pretty much guaranteed to get triggered by her
rancid ember
Yeah but I lose a Potency 😦
strong forum
Our potency conduits suck ass
rancid ember
I playin VDH
strong forum
There's your issue
rancid ember
lol true
strong forum
Tfw 9.1.5 already better than all of 9.0+9.1
rancid ember
Yeah holy shit
We can finally play the game.
It'll be nice to be able to switch Covs instantly for M+ and have builds set to go etc
strong forum
Not like I'll swap cov
jagged pier
^^
strong forum
But is nice for the game
jagged pier
nice for alts
rancid ember
Nice for mains too if you're pushing that covenant already on an alt.
novel lotus
Trying to decide between 236 Decanter w/ leech, 239 Decanter of Endless Howling, and 246 phial for m+ 🤔 (my other slot is for 249 scale)
mighty valley
only downside here is it's gonna be annoying when people are like "brb switching covenants" between bosses
strong forum
Only for parse whoring
rancid ember
Yeah idk if your raid lets that happen its on you guys?
I can understand switching between Dungies for M+ though
plush tendon
someone wake me up when 9.1.5 is here
jagged pier
rancid ember
What you mean Jakey?
strong forum
Legion legendaries
rancid ember
What makes you think those would go active again instead of us just being allowed to use current legos?
rancid ember
Yeah but M+ Timewalking is a new concept
rancid ember
Players going back to farm those would be not good or are they super easy to obtain? I didn't play Legion 😄
strong forum
But not high ilvl
craggy pilot
i fuckkin spent 10k anima to upgrade my Teleport to lvl 3, then i realised i spent it on Command Table instead 🤦 
rancid ember
I maxed Command Table 1st on all of my guys. I'm rolling in Augment runes
ancient reef
fastest way to cap , dung spam as prot/
strong forum
Don't post tracken videos.
jagged pier
🧢
blazing dune
true pawnBOT
Done.
jagged pier
XD
strong forum
Bai bai
brave jetty
Lots of questions about what time walking M+ actually means
strong forum
time will tell
brave jetty
Are the items upgradeable with valor? Is it really just for the two week initial rotation and then a week after? They gonna drop Tormented in those dungeons too? Is it totally independent of the new M+ rating?
strong forum
yes
craggy pilot
wait what? Timewalking M+? did i miss something?
strong forum
not gonna be upgradable
brave jetty
How do you know?
strong forum
not gonna play into m+ rating
because it would be obscenely retarded
its a twice a year event
what do you think it will be lol
not twice a year
but only every few months
brave jetty
I don't know man, they haven't confirmed shit on details about it so I ain't presuming to know much aside from what they've detailed
I don't even know how we'd get keystones for it and how that works
brave jetty
But if there is a scale of difficulties then presumably the gear drops scale to at least end of dungeon loot ilvl
craggy pilot
do we know when we will get 9.5?
strong forum
fall
brave jetty
So it's not an insane leap to think it's possible they just let you valor shit to 246. I agree it's probably unlikely but I don't know how you can rule that out for sure with current info. I don't think it breaks the game or anything if they did that.
brave jetty
Yeah but this isn't normal timewalking
strong forum
yeah but its not gonna be a new high end way of gearing
no fucking way
its just a fun week to fuck around in
and get OP trinkets
brave jetty
shrug I agree it's unlikely but we don't know for sure yet.
Unless it's handled horribly I think the reception is going to be overwhelmingly positive
So I can def imagine a timeline where they lean into timewalking M+ harder in the future
Tbh I feel like if they're doing Legion there's a decent chance they eventually add BfA M+ too. It's really low hanging fruit. Tricky thing there is there is no existing BfA timewalking rotation.
rugged mural
Just ran a Mists and made the mistake of thinking we could invis past the first set of packs. They have truesight. Is it possible to walk out of the truesight range and invis past them? Or do you have to kill at least one pack there?
lofty widget
go left around the first tree
next plaza
Is there a consolidated list of skips/tips for m+? Outside of tank notes I'm most talking about pulling trash through the mist walls and stuff like that.
lofty widget
dont think so, but im sure lots of us have tips to share if you have anything specific in mind 🙂
like in mists, the only 2 places i think you can pull through mist is the third miniboss, and the pack to the right at the start of the maze
and you just have someone send their pet in to tag it
gloomy cradle
You can also pull the packs around mistcallerw
next plaza
I know you can pull the second frog through the wall. Our shaman has done it once or twice.
gloomy cradle
But obviously have to do it before boss
lofty widget
if you can target it over the walls or with target macros, then you can pull it
next plaza
Oof. OK. Was hoping there was a chunk of knowledge to plan around. I finally wrangled enough guildies into dedicated push nights. Anyone opposed to just sending info at me and I can put a sheet together to share back here?
Feats!
Grats*
patent osprey
like in mists, the only 2 places i think you can pull through mist is the third ...
u can pull through any wall with a pet throughout the maze
lofty widget
as i said, as long as you can target it you can pull it
inland raft
jagged pier
nah daddy qwiks just on our side
brittle owl
jagged pier
strong forum
whos been banned like 9 times
sweet summit
the same guy again?
brittle owl
abortus?
brittle owl
i wonder if abortus is still playing
ionic fern
Can i...can i just stay in the Legion TW forever?
strong forum
legion priv server ww@
chilly brook
nah daddy qwiks just on our side
I sure hope so but I won't believe it until I see it
And by that I mean actually listening to us and showing a track record of it
Not just listening when they're reeling back because they're arterially bleeding players and good will
strong forum
not namedropping
so he doesnt get any PR
pretty self explanatory really
hes irrelevant and no
now shush
craggy pilot
whats better?
blazing condor
sin stained is like our best m+ neck
but with a socket tailspinner is probably better
but its a bit feely
somber stump
If it doesn't hurt your mitigation. Aslong as you can keep that up than using condemn in ST is quite alright
It deals more dmg than revenge in ST, or if you really need to get a prio target down. But if the 2nd option is the case, then a dps usually pops a cd there to nuke it
strong forum
WW is a waste of rage
less dmg than revenge
costs 30 rage
doesnt reset SS CD
doesnt apply deep wounds
hardcapped to 5 targets
white mist
Well my guild just died. F
blazing condor
strong forum
1 of many
white mist
Love to see it
jagged pier
F
modern brook
Wanna make a new guild smexy
white mist
I mean, I dont think finding one will happen but that sounds like too much effort
Was really hoping this tier would be the tier after just narrowly not getting CE on sire
strong forum
Running a guild is so much effort
Especially a low level mythic guild
Takes so much maintenance cuz nobody does shit untold or puts in effort themselves
sick sentinel
anything changing for protection warrior 9.1.5?
saw a bunch of changes overall to wow, but im currently unsubbed
frosty ridge
no tuning to anyone so far
blazing condor
do you have to farm the renown for the new cov?
frosty ridge
I just wonder how freely. like I eat a tome of insight during raid and just swap, or I still gotta go to Oribos and talk to a bunch of npcs, just not wait for a week and do quests (or still do quests but not week's worth)
blazing condor
or will it transfer
strong forum
Should transfer
blazing condor
strong forum
I think you gotta do the campaign once on everything tho
old garnet
Once per account
strong forum
Ye
Actually
I think the only thing that's getting bypassed is the cooldown
So you still gotta farm renown
And do the campaign once per Account per cov
But we will see soon enough
sick sentinel
i think if you quit a covenant and come back it stays where it was
sick sentinel
that sounds fair to m
strong forum
You still have to ge it once
So the only thing that changes is the cooldown of switching between the things
sick sentinel
guess im fucked, i only ever went kyrian
frosty ridge
we'll have months in current patch to grind everything, nothing else to do anyway
sick sentinel
i still would like to try executioner warrior tank at some point if i gave a shit enough to lvl up venth or not
frosty ridge
yea... I'm too lazy as well
probably wait on the off chance they make it much easier
strong forum
I would only go venthyr to get the tmog
frosty ridge
they could
strong forum
Then piss off again
brave jetty
Yeah I might hit up the other covenants purely for cosmetics
sick sentinel
warrior man with sheild chops off your head
brave jetty
Need to dump my anima
sick sentinel
sound perfect to me
brave jetty
And some of those sets look really good + lots of new mounts
sick sentinel
nomeratur talks all the time about NF ability, so i'd like to try it
prisma bear
the nf ability literally can make a pull that isnt possible for your group possible
strong forum
Nomeratur talks all the time about the NF abilitiy, so I'd like to try it
merry ocean
lilac jungle
Strikethrough makes for great jokes
strong forum
So does self awareness
lilac jungle
Or a lack thereof, but usually not for the person making the statement
distant crystal
if you reach a certain renown on any toon
then every toon will have the renown for that cov
distant crystal
aka i should level a necrolord
sick sentinel
the organ dropped, someone traded it to him and said "its okay for tanking" ugh, because he's talking about wanting to do tank and there is some kind of cooldown takes 2 whole minutes for you to get all 20 stacks i think, so it turns out to be really bad
fringe marten
LOL and we were just talking about this last night..(legion M+)
It's kinda' unclear though..so are they going to allow certain dungeons to be run as M+ during the TW event? IE Up to current level/content? Or is it 'just' timewalking?
median tulip
I'm feeling really good about having levelled alts in all of the covenants now, NGL
fringe marten
If we can run Maw of souls..'as' current content for M+ and get up to current M+ ilevel end-of-dungeon loot...I'm going to run Maw of souls until my soul bleeds for a 236 angerboda.
But all the covenant changes/etc are just "that's how it shoulda' been"
craggy pilot
when you overtime a 19 mist by 25s
brave jetty
Is there an actual rating diff for timing the key by 1s vs. failing it by 1s? Like is there some sort of bonus for pass/fail?
I always thought for the purposes of rating it was on a sliding scale based on time and that was it
chilly brook
But all the covenant changes/etc are just "that's how it shoulda' been"
Yep, this isn't a win. This is just how it should have been to begin with. I'm not gonna give them props for fixing things that they simply ignored and acted like they were better than us for a year. I won't really start believing they're waking up to reality until they show that they've learned. This is literally the same song and dance they've been doing for years, the only difference is that this is the soonest they've done it.
brave jetty
We can be happy to see the changes without singing their praises for picking low hanging fruit while the company is desperate.
chilly brook
We can be happy to see the changes without singing their praises for picking low...
I'm not going to say the changes aren't good, but it's hardly anything more than their hand being forced.
I'll definitely be glad to be able to swap and not worry about conduit energy
brave jetty
Yeah that's fine. End result still the same. Would be nice if they didn't break things before fixing them, or didn't have to be facing an existential threat in order to opt against systems that are hostile to players, but I ain't going to use their fixing things as a renewed excuse to shit all over them.
inland raft
So excited to swap between nf and kyrian depending on how feeling/week
brave jetty
So excited to just stay Kyrian always lmao
fringe marten
What I really feel like happened is simply that..they got a spotlight put on some of their management; the brand/company got a really bad PR rap for it..and they started hemorrhaging players to their competition faster than ever; and the ACTUAL boss activision said "Do whatever you need to to save the game, make people happy..we're going to have to re-evaluate WoW as a viable product" and they just greenlit some changes they were going to make 'later'.
inland raft
I love my queen
cinder nova
I'm gonna be swapping almost every fight lol
fringe marten
S. I think that was the point of conduit energy to be honest..to stop people from saying "ok lemme hearth back..resummon me..I need to swap out 2 conduits.."
brave jetty
I am not going to do that because I want to reserve my right to bitch at other people for taking forever between fights to redo conduits.
brave jetty
Conduits or covenant*
inland raft
And had it work on cov/conduit
frosty ridge
I'm gonna be swapping almost every fight lol
unless they make it annoying, like going to Oribos and talking to a bunch of npcs every time
inland raft
The tech is just not there yet though
cinder nova
I like how you guys thought I meant swapping conduit every fight
fringe marten
Exactly LOL.. you can swap your 'lanes' but not the conduits..to sad.
No; you mean covenant
cinder nova
I'm absolutely am swapping covs on cleave fights for that sick-ass EM assbeat
And Kyr for M+
fringe marten
I get that; But I'm saying..that's the point of conduit energy I think..so people weren't wanting to swap every boss in a raid.
chilly brook
Yeah that's fine. End result still the same. Would be nice if they didn't brea...
It's not really a renewed excuse, how many times do we have to do the song and dance before they learn?
cinder nova
I get that; But I'm saying..that's the point of conduit energy I think..so peopl...
Why is that bad?
fringe marten
There just shouldn't have been conduit energy in the first place..for them to put in a time limitation was stupid, EVEN if their 'goal' was to prevent people from wanting to swap every boss.
If people want to hearth/swap and the raid is ok with resummoning...then let them do it.
cinder nova
Honestly the fact that you probably have to hearth is stupid still.
fringe marten
^^
cinder nova
Just let players swap conduits out of combat with an ICD on procs so you can't do Rextroy-level shenaniganry.
chilly brook
Legion legendaries, target cap, abilities being moved onto the GCD, azerite armor, island expeditions, azerite power, benthic gear, rng sockets, titanforging, covenant lock, conduit energy etc.
fringe marten
that's the real issue..that conduit swapping was limited in ANY way..but especially a "mobile game time energy" limitation.
chilly brook
Notice a consistent theme?
ancient cosmos
Wow just saw the 9.1.5 notes. Literally everything they could have launched SL with that people wanted, but they didn't. Now they're drowning and pulling all the switches huh?
brave jetty
It's not really a renewed excuse, how many times do we have to do the song and d...
I've done my share of bitching at them before and during SL. I don't think it helps the cause if the response to them fixing shit is the exact same as when they weren't fixing it.
chilly brook
I've done my share of bitching at them before and during SL. I don't think it h...
Bruh we've done the song and dance of omg thank you for listening blizz
Clearly they dont listen unless they actually get a punch to the gut
brave jetty
I'm not singing their praises lol
I'm just opting not to shit on them in this particular moment
fringe marten
It just blows my mind that, EVEN thematically..lore wise; this is LITERALLY borrowed power "while you're in shadowlands..maw walker..we will allow you to summon a steward~ and throw one of our spears~" Ok..aren't all the covenants working together against the jailer? WHY can't I just 'borrow' whomevers ability I need at the moment?? WHY do I have to 'prove' my loyalty..again?! WHY does it take 10 hours to regain the ability to move a conduit?! The limitations NEVER made sense.
chilly brook
And if you want to take the stance of "we shouldn't shit on them for making the game better" well let's see them make the game better instead of just making it exactly what it should have been a year ago after so many people telling them it shouldn't be the way they're trying to make it.
lofty widget
it made sense to not ahve insta swaps in 9.0 since they were trying to tell 4 different stories
but now in 9.1 not so much
fringe marten
in actual fact..thematically we should have ALL the covenant abilities, all the time..but I get why we can't do that.
chilly brook
It's like praising a police officer for letting you go once you're at the police station after arresting you for just walking 3 miles away
ancient cosmos
Made no sense in 9.0 either, maybe I wanted to do all 4 stores in the time before 9.1. should have been teamwork
chilly brook
it made sense to not ahve insta swaps in 9.0 since they were trying to tell 4 di...
It made 0 sense
inland raft
Thank you officer for not shooting me simply cuz im not white
cinder nova
in actual fact..thematically we should have ALL the covenant abilities, all the ...
No, no... we should. You should have to cast a spell like how you swap specializations to rotate to a new covenant.
fringe marten
Chimmi not really though...ALL the covenants were working against the jailers efforts the entire time..they ALL didn't like him for various reasons..But the 'immediate' concern was Denny stealing all the anima..but they were ALSO ALL working against denny~
cinder nova
Like "attuning your anima" to that covenant's power.
chilly brook
Locking your story behind weird walls instead of letting people experience it freely is dumb as hell
inland raft
Theres a genre of games that use systems like they implemented
Its called pay to win mobile
Just without ability ti buy shortcuts
brave jetty
It's like praising a police officer for letting you go once you're at the police...
I need you to re-read what I said because you're being obtuse. Didn't say praise them. Just not actively giving them shit in response to this, is all. Do you understand the difference?
fringe marten
S. right; what I meant was...all at the same TIME; we shouldn't have that..because they'd have to reduce their power dramatically and then we'd have 8 or 10 new abilities. No thank you~ But either they should all be on the same 'timer' The Signature, and covenant ability...OR like you said; a "call upon covenant favor" shift that's out of combat/30 sec or 1 min CD or something.
crystal iris
Hey can someone help with ignore pain details. Does the 50% appli to the damage you would take after the reduction from shield block?
Same goes for shield wall and demo shout
chilly brook
I need you to re-read what I said because you're being obtuse. Didn't say prais...
I mean, I'm not really giving them shit either. I'm saying I don't trust them and that this is the same song and dance we go through time after time.
But apparently pointing that out is shitting on them
Truth hurts I guess
chilly brook
Hey can someone help with ignore pain details. Does the 50% appli to the damage ...
Pretty sure its post block
fringe marten
But yes..we've been literally saying, from day 1 of shadowlands "BUT WHY are the covenants so restrictive? aren't we working against a common enemy? I don't get this.." Being negative towards the game isn't helpful but..it's still just an honest take to say this was a very odd system from the start..and they're just shifting it to how it SHOULD have been always.
chilly brook
Hey can someone help with ignore pain details. Does the 50% appli to the damage ...
But its largely irrelevant, you should use your defensives fairly liberally
crystal iris
No I do try and always have both up
You guys have actually helped me a lot
I went from being scarred of 15s to tanking an 18 the other day
Although that was super fkn scary lol
crystal iris
Was tyrannical, Fort still scares me lol
brave jetty
Yeah I don't trust them either, it's obvious this is coming from a place of desperation and nobody should take it as a signal that they're suddenly going to stop implementing design that's hostile to players in the future.
craggy pilot
@brave jetty regarding the scoring, i believe there is a default value of timing a key exactly at the given time, and then you get/lose points by being up to 40% faster or slower, so ye my 25s over time Mist will give almost same points, but still will look bad 😄
crystal iris
And let’s say I panic and pop demo shout and shield wall. Do they stack?
chilly brook
Yes
craggy pilot
what panic is there about popping demo shout and shield wall together? 🤔
chilly brook
But you're not getting 65% reduction
crystal iris
I’m guessing that shield wall would reduce by 50% then ignore pain reduces 50% of that ?
craggy pilot
just pop demo shout when its rdy, dont think too much about it, its negligible ability
crystal iris
just pop demo shout when its rdy, dont think too much about it, its negligible a...
Fair
chilly brook
I’m guessing that shield wall would reduce by 50% then ignore pain reduces 50% o...
Basically but IP has a cap
craggy pilot
only stuff you should be not using at the same time is Shield Wall, Def Trinket, Last Stand
chilly brook
So if it's a 60k hit and your IP is 20k you're taking 20k off the hit not 30k
chilly brook
Hence why honestly it's not worth worrying about
crystal iris
Then you’d be taking 30k and IP would take 15k off
So 60k hit would be 15k with IP and SW?
chilly brook
None of the rage you pump into IP is a waste
crystal iris
Course not
3% heal and reduce SW and avatar
I spa@ up as mush as I can as long as I don’t cap
So kiting
craggy pilot
spam what?
crystal iris
IP
craggy pilot
thats dumb
only want to IP when you about to cap rage
any other time just Revenge
chilly brook
It's a little more nuanced
crystal iris
Well y’a
craggy pilot
SS/TC/SB is most important
and then Intervene/Charge ofc
then rage dump into Revenge
and if about to cap, pop IP
crystal iris
Idk in 17s I usually feel like I need it lol
craggy pilot
if you just have SB up, you should not rly need to IP spam
crystal iris
I revenge as much as I feel like I safely can
craggy pilot
what leggo and talents are u running?
craggy pilot
Prio wise it should go something like this:
SB>SS>TC>Revenge>IP
mighty valley
it doesn't make sense to have a priority list that mixes things on and off the GCD
modern brook
Shield block always but I try to keep IP ip in combat as well
If you're capable of keeping an ip shield up
You're doing content that you should be able to do with no ip
mighty valley
but yeah, if you feel like most of your rage has to go into IP in normal situations, there's probably something else off
craggy pilot
it doesn't make sense to have a priority list that mixes things on and off the G...
tru
but just trying to make it easier to understand 😄
chilly brook
I mean honestly its pretty easy to understand
The balance between IP/revenge is feelycraft in dungeons
crystal iris
You guys are saying I should be able to put halls 17 Fort week with no IP
mighty valley
Not no IP - if you're just using it to avoid overcapping, that's honestly already a decent amount of IP
crystal iris
Spam is a big word I try to keep it up at all times
craggy pilot
it depends on healer, interrupts, shield value, SB uptime, def cooldown rotations
not so much IP spam
chilly brook
I think we're getting into a lot of semantics here tbh
craggy pilot
we love semantics ❤️
crystal iris
I figure IP is my only magic damage reduction right?
modern brook
Not even close
chilly brook
Hard to be specific without actual logs
craggy pilot
Spell Reflect
mighty valley
Halls incoming damage depends a lot on how many wicked bolts are going unkicked too
crystal iris
Assume all of them hah
chilly brook
Assume all of them hah
Then you die
craggy pilot
you have Pummel 
modern brook
Assume all of them hah
I find different 0layers
crystal iris
Pug dps always save for the curse
craggy pilot
not in 17
chilly brook
Outside of DK I dont think anyone lives all HoA bolts going through
craggy pilot
people in 17 should know what they doing
chilly brook
Bolts fuck
craggy pilot
just go NF and
crystal iris
Haha good to k is
I am haha
I usually do that on pull
Then aoe stun and reflect all at once
craggy pilot
?
crystal iris
Then pummel and pray but usually I have to leave by then
crystal iris
When AA runs out
modern brook
@crystal iris just log a key
crystal iris
Just like I log raid?
crystal iris
Hahaha me neither
Tank is off spec but I enjoy learning it
Y’all are hard on me tho haha
craggy pilot
but ye if you then shockwave, then spell reflect, and a pummel
the pack should be pretty dead by that point
if you have it hard in a dung, add a boomkin to your roster
crystal iris
Hardest part is finding good players
craggy pilot
solar beam+treents slap
crystal iris
Half the time there’s no interrupt on the caster far away
crystal iris
A-T thst point iim fighting for aggro
And the first triple pull of halls used both charges usually
I leap over sometimes if I have solid aggro
Ok anyone figured out how to note without spreading out the whole pack
craggy pilot
but anyway doing 17s is alrdy a good step in the right direction
crystal iris
Also question about first pull of mists
How the hell does that work the double pull
It always goes badly for me
cinder nova
Do you mean triple pull? 🤔
I normally get the two packs near the NF gate then the pack with the tirnan in it.
And we just cleave it down.
crystal iris
yeah i mean the 2 packs of biters into the big tree pack
modern brook
Cc helps with the leaps
crystal iris
its more the dot they put on ppl, can that be avoided?
I think its when they die they sort of explode
chilly brook
Purge
mellow bridge
It's not a dot, it's a damage taken increase
If you cc the small adds properly there should be barely any bleeds on your group
And then the remaining mobs don't deal damage to your group if the single caster is kicked properly
The adds apply the bleed by jumping around and applying it in an aoe
Stuff like our spear or vortex prevents them from doing that
And you cannot stack or several people will get it at the same time
Make sure to be spread out a few yards
crystal iris
interesting
mellow bridge
Not dispelling them is a very valid strat in coordinated groups
As the debuff applies to anything around them
craggy pilot
you can also just lust the pack
mellow bridge
So the surviving mobs take more damage as well
mellow bridge
But in pugs I'd make sure to always purge them
craggy pilot
then you will have lust rdy for 2nd boss
mellow bridge
Idk that pull is pretty chill as a tank imo
You stun both melee boys to sync up their cleaves
You double reflect the first one
SW second one
SR third one
Pull over
If you are personally struggling as a tank on that pull, it's probably your own play
craggy pilot
You double reflect the first one
wdym with this?
cinder nova
You can reflect any number of attacks that are reflectable on the same frame.
mellow bridge
They cast soul cleaves on you
mellow bridge
If you stun once one of them starts their cast, they will both instantly cast it after the stun
mellow bridge
You press SR and reflect both soul cleaves including the damage taken increase debuff
craggy pilot
dont the wyrms have a cast animation though? which will make them hit in diff frames?
cinder nova
They're objectively the easiest thing to sync imo
mellow bridge
They will all cast at the same time as soon as the stun ends so you can reflect them all at the same time
Just make sure to SR in time or you're fried lol
craggy pilot
yea but doesnt the spell have travel time? meaning they will land at different frames?
mellow bridge
The relevant part for SR is when the spell starts
cinder nova
^
mellow bridge
Like you can't reflect a spell once the spell has been casted but it's still flying
It's too late at that point
craggy pilot
ohh
mellow bridge
The game doesn't care about that
craggy pilot
so if a spell has a faster travel time, can it "steal" your reflect?
mellow bridge
Not quite sure about that
But the spells would have to happen at the same time which seems unlikely
craggy pilot
thought about this a lot when i used to do PvP
fx Chaos bolt having slower travel time than a instant cast DOT fx
distant crystal
i feel like most pve nukes are hitscan
is there a lot of travel time stuff? i know some will have a visual projectile but instant dam
craggy pilot
oh so the damage hits before the visual?
cinder nova
You're overthinking it
Like, hard
Just get on, shockwave a pack of wyrms, SR when you see them all start casting
???
Profit
It's not that complicated my guy
Some mobs are harder to do it on than others. Slimeclaws can be a bit tricky.
So can the ghouls in SD
But for the most part, it's pretty straightforward
craggy pilot
yeye i went back in PvP mode 😄
always waited with casting SR until Chaos Bolt was about to land
rather than when casting
i feel stunning to line stuff up is a bit dangerous, sometimes when i line melee attacks up, i will just get straight up one shot
distant crystal
the healer wasn't going to save you in that .5sec cast stagger anyhow
gloomy cradle
always waited with casting SR until Chaos Bolt was about to land
Pretty sure that doesn’t work, need to be used before cast completes
cinder nova
Right lads
Going to spectate some IRL arena 1v1s
My buddy is squaring up - wish him luck
Gotta catch a train to go see it and rep
sweet summit
blood is more damage on st
high folio
ahhh okay
i ms arms anyways but was wondering if it was a total grief to use the unholy gems if im having to fill tank spots in raid
high folio
fair
high folio
gotcha
maiden ravine
I'm so hyped that I'll be able to keep my Venthyr transmog, play condemn in any easy content or dps, but go fae or Kyrian as needed
obtuse monolith
I think set bonus ranks make a huge diff… just because “Blood’s best for Prot” and “UH is best for Arms” at equal rank doesn’t mean R1 beats R5.
Finally got a helm and I was surprised that my Blood R4 set still simmed higher ~for Arms~ than UH R3. Just running Blood+Dyz+Cor for all specs now until I rank UH up more
sacred timber
DH/BM/AFF in a +13.... literally triple pull first on SD.... none of them broke 8k on the first pull... meanwhile I was playing prot and hit 15.6k......
left that key right after the first pull because it took almost 3 minutes to kill.....
Like how the fuck can you be 230+ and do that little dps....
digital arch
when will be the 9.1.5?
vale basalt
@shell fox
cause at the lvl of keys he's doing
IP gets eaten in less than a global
it's not strong but it's what u have
again
at the lvl of keys he's doing
the "stronger" ones
are not actually stronger
they are only stronger under unrealistic circumstances
the only other option would be Brutal vitality which adds absorb to your IP based on the damage u do. That's not really a good option the 25s this man is doing
IP gets eaten too fast for ur damage to actually contribute something into it
vale basalt
^
plka also has good players right by his side in all of his keys. For the majority of us even with networking ull find people who're just poop
@patent osprey btw massa. Thoughts on kyrian so far? I swapped one week before u and while i do like the damage idk. I feel like not having to worry about kicks for 12 seconds is just better imo
patent osprey
plka also has good players right by his side in all of his keys. For the majorit...
Godly players indeed
patent osprey
<@!133743762999476224> btw massa. Thoughts on kyrian so far? I swapped one week ...
I like kyrian. Its fun damage, but yeah i do miss NF stops. The pot is really really nice in SD though I love it
vale basalt
Thats the thing
I do like it in SD
but boi do i miss it in halls
won't matter in 9.1.5
so thats nice
patent osprey
so @shell fox
ill try it for sure but
who knows what itll be like
but more content is good
vale basalt
WTB freehold m+ timewalking
digital arch
anyone know the day that will arrive the 9.1.5?
clear sapphire
Can "Shard of Zed" proc on ourselves with IP or our self heals (not including VR)?
sand pebble
Can "Shard of Zed" proc on ourselves with IP or our self heals (not including VR...
Copied from wowhead comments - watpuppy on 2021/07/13 (Patch 9.1.0)
Yes it does. Any beneficial effect will proc it but it has a 60 second internal cooldown so the amount of health you can drain is completely negligible.
clear sapphire
thats worthless 😛
fringe marten
It's not awful in keys if it's triggering on 'lots' of mobs but I tested it a couple runs and yeah...the 1.5% heal increase, or just the leech gem would be better.
I tested it 'purely' for damage purposes..and for THAT SPECIFIC purpose, in keys..sure it's maybe the 'best' 5th gem..but if the key is threatening in any way; the heal boost gem is better, followed by leech.
Because it does do a 'small' amount of damage
The underrot trinket was BFA; and yeah the Vial of blood? or whatever it was..in current content would be insane beastmode. IF it's available as current M+, with current M+ item level rewards there will be 2 trinkets worth getting, or maybe 1...for sure Angerboda (maw of souls) and if it's scaled up 'enough' maybe the 'pack' trinket (run speed) trinket from ..Halls of valor? There were some cool trinks but those stand out in memory.
But they normalized/nerfed run speed boost trinkets so 'old' trinkets weren't good any more...that pack trinket I ran in torghast for the first few weeks of Shadowlands until it got nerfed.
mighty valley
gonna stay venthyr out of spite
lavish oracle
If legion M+ timewalking becomes a thing and we can get 246 gear out of it, are there any pieces we should be looking out for specifically?
Trinkets especially
I only really remember notable raid trinkets from legion
silk edge
jagged pier
we did use raid trinkets more in legion
candid niche
The lower karazhan neck might have some use in m+ depending on how the dmg is scaled
candid niche
we also used to fucking blast dmg in legion too 😛
jagged pier
we do now
candid niche
damn, you've got me there
my thinking is that alot of the shit from legion isn't capped nor does it use that weird system for aoe dmg procs of slightly increasing and splitting
empty spindle
jagged pier
sack of terror
jagged pier
u dont go for taz to get that now but we do for sack
so i doubt first technique will be good
espeically as aegis will still be busted next season
and we also get scale again
steep condor
guys i've just moved to kyrian and id like to play both arms and prot. Is my best option to use mik for arms and pelagos for prot?
jagged pier
guys i've just moved to kyrian and id like to play both arms and prot. Is my bes...
No check the pins theres a path in there
strong forum
If legion M+ timewalking becomes a thing and we can get 246 gear out of it, are ...
It's not gonna be 246 lol
But there a alot of nutty dungeon trinkets
strong forum
Shivermaw
Memento of angerboda
Writhing heart of darkness
Eye of command
Toe knees promise
You see, there a few trinkets that own
And the ring that increases auto attack dmg by 10% is also gonna be huge
blazing condor
what was our best dg trinkets in BFA now again? 
i remember people running Jes' Howler and Gleaming Eye of Rezan
thats about it
fiery prism
Stat weights are still vers/haste right?
jagged pier
Nope
Ilvl
Haste
Whatever else
And by ilvl i mean u DO NOT drop it for haste or anything, if it has strength on it
Ring and neck around 15-20 ilvls before its an upgrade
As more stats > less better stats
drifting oasis
Is it worth sacrificing ilevel to get a domination socket in M+ ?
I'm talking about say 10 ilevels
drifting oasis
i've got a 226 domination socket hat; with a max rank gen its worth using over a 236 hat? even if upgraded to 246?
jagged pier
Yes
drifting oasis
ok, so top prio is getting the 3 dps gems; good to know; i've been using ilevel over them so far
blazing condor
:bonkcat:
"This emoji doesnt work because it's animated. With Discord Nitro blhablhablh"
oblique garnet
Thats a thing? 
strong forum
ya
sweet summit
cyan onyx
crimson radish
Quick question, I play arms but am setting up tank spec. Is Kleia decent for Mythic + (Mythic 0-12, lets say)
Don't want to swap many conduits all the time if possible
jagged pier
theres an arms prot path in the pins
strong forum
I recommend the tree that's pinned for mikanikos
However kleia works fine if you want to
oblique garnet
theres an arms prot path in the pins
But its only defensives 🤔
Wheres the big dam conduits
fathom timber
jagged pier
But its only defensives 🤔
u only really need PV tbh
oblique garnet
jagged pier
unique shale
so more SB uptime ?
novel lotus
Especially with reprisal
jagged pier
it is but its 90% blocked hits vs 100% but honestly its ppl just following what the top ppl are doing and not understanding why
strong forum
Itf is just worse in m+
jagged pier
u should not run HR and ITF in keys
strong forum
No real reason to run it
novel lotus
Ya idk about itf in keys lol
jagged pier
24s+ are literally a different game
unique shale
i have no problem with SB up time unless i fuck it up
strong forum
Exactly
unique shale
those people who ran those talents tend to have more versa over haste so don't have enough SB uptime
strong forum
Even then you don't run ITF
As reprisal + HR are literally 100% even with 0 haste
Alot of people base their talent choice on amounts of buttons aswell
Aswell as just not knowing the powerhouse of a button that is ravager
unique shale
any tip for mists 20 ?
strong forum
Go big and have fun
unique shale
first pack and seconds are really hitting hard
blazing condor
just got out of a mists 20
oblique garnet
Bl first pull
unique shale
Go big and have fun
go big but go home with small dps
strong forum
Mists is literally the easiest key in the game, just purge the leapers. Reflect soulsplit and you're golden
blazing condor
you can stun into SR to reflect the damage debuff
oblique garnet
Kite the 2nd one when the reavers have buff up and interrupt casts
pale gust
any reason people going for Heavy Repercussions & Into the Fray this week ?
I always use hr
unique shale
I always use hr
Hr ?
sweet summit
blazing condor
huge rat
sweet summit
hollow rock
strong forum
Humble radagast
unique shale
blazing condor
really like playing arms as dps in keys but been doing a few with a big fury pumper
now im getting kinda interested
pale gust
Does details provide info regarding shield block uptime?
fathom timber
Gotta log for blocked hits
wide pilot
Is 78% blocked hit avg for a dungeon like AD?
wide pilot
SD :p
strong forum
could be better
wide pilot
I miss that place
blazing condor
SOB was ass tho
mental scarab
Fucked that mob snapping so many times in AD
wide pilot
I miss the snap points
strong forum
AD was good outside of teeming, tyr and s4
with S4 AD got shit
with teeming AD got shit
and the bosses slapped on tyr quite hard
mental scarab
Tree boss just face tanking
blazing condor
any dg that requires you to play around mobs/objects to clear it faster is ass
strong forum
last boss being an extremely high healer and damage reduction on DPS check
blazing condor
which is why SOB was ass and PF was ass
wide pilot
I loved WM manner for how they had it set up… playing WM was a dif story though lol
strong forum
first boss 1shotting unless you blinked the mechanic
blazing condor
not to mention brain dead people not knowing how to do 3rd boss in TD
strong forum
WCM was good outside of witches
everything was outplayable without abusing shit except witches
blazing condor
KR was alright but tough in uncoordinated groups
strong forum
s4 KR was unironically peak dungeon
blazing condor
also having to skip Zul was ass
strong forum
s4 KR and s4 ML were insanely good
mental scarab
Haha Zul on high keys
strong forum
Zul you could actually manage well with corruption OP
but before that yeah, dumb cunt boss
blazing condor
emissaries were kinda meh
but at least they rotated every week
so some were more prominent
strong forum
s3 was utter dogshit
wide pilot
So out of curiosity now that bliz is pulling the ripcord… will meta be swapping between nf and kyrian for dungeons?
strong forum
dont think so
unless you specifically plan around the knockdown for those 2-3 hoa pulls and SD
and maybe dos for first and 2nd pull
but i dont think its that big a deal
i sure as shit wont
maybe plka will, but outside of literally his keys it wont matter much
wide pilot
What would you say is a solid blocked hit %? Like a this guy isn’t amazing but that’s a really solid blocked hit %
strong forum
80-85%+
wide pilot
That with AM?
strong forum
ya
wide pilot
I got a lot of work to do then lol
strong forum
most i could manage was like 87% without going bonkers tryhard on only focusing on max block uptime
in my elysian might + AM run i had 68% blocked
so not ultra terrible either
strong forum
we'll see how they implement the switching
lunar jackal
hopefully is completely free
strong forum
well it will be completely free
lunar jackal
Im never not playing NF in halls
lunar jackal
tired of getting bolted to the ground cause people don't know the meaning of interrupt and then they go "this tank suks lul"
wide pilot
Lol
restive oak
just say the dps suck first :x
wide pilot
The rule is if you complain 1st you win. Anything after 1sr complaint is making excuses
lunar jackal
true
wide pilot
Well back to mowing the grass 😩
jagged pier
most i could manage was like 87% without going bonkers tryhard on only focusing ...
I got 88% once
lavish oracle
It's not gonna be 246 lol
I haven't seen any info on it yet, I figured either they'll make the gear useless and it's not worth grinding for any of them or they fuck up and they're like fully upgradeable via valor
strong forum
my estimate is 226
cuz thats what timewalking usually is
and some of those trinkets are gonna be nutty even at normal raid ilvl
lavish oracle
Did legion trinkets use RPPM or was that a BFA thing?
strong forum
i was ultra casual in legion so idk
tacit phoenix
Think this might also work on the orb blast on third boss of SD had the same thing happen twice yesterday
lavish oracle
I kinda remember legion trinkets being weird
blazing condor
anyone know about how much their scale absorbs in a dg?
strong forum
i can tell you what a single use of a 252 does but average no
unless i check jakeys logs
dos 19 from jakey
jagged pier
🤷♂️
jagged pier
Thats mythic aegis
strong forum
im gonna get aegis next vault
blazing condor
do multiple boss kills of the same boss count towards vault?
it doesnt right
like if i do taragrue 9 times in a week
blazing condor
yeah
fank ju
otherwise you could target-spam for vault
which would be interesting
obtuse monolith
Killing only first 3 on mythic every week and opening in prot would be a pretty high shot for Aegis at least. I mean, or just getting it from Nine. At least it’s early boss
blazing condor
3
sweet summit
no
can sim for dps with raidbots
sterile torrent
Yeah... I guess that can be useful for M+?
strong forum
for m+ you just follow the regular rule of ilvl >haste>vers
simming as tank is mostly only done for trinkets
sterile torrent
Ok, what about for Raid stuff, I I still stack haste with reckless abondon or is there a cut off for another stat?
strong forum
reckless abandon is a fury talent
but for raw ST dmg, crit is usually our best stat
sterile torrent
lol, sorry, I meant that as a joke haha, forgot it was a skill
strong forum
median tulip
All of our stats have effective defensive components to them. A balance of stats is wise. You will have to get a personal feel for how much Haste is a comfortable level for your play. In my personal experience, 20% Haste is where Protection really "clicks" in terms of Rage generation and cooldown reduction, but you may decide you feel comfortable a a different value.
sterile torrent
Thank you very much.
jagged pier
imagine absorbing stagger
strong forum
:^)