looks like blizz is workin real hard to get the important stuff out there 
#protection
prisma crane
red tree
That's the cutting edge progressive and fun content we are looking for!
serene pine
what kind of ilvl is recommended for starting 10+ keys
hollow bolt
Started doing them at around 200ish-196ish there tough but in a cordianted group it should be okk
serene pine
okay nice thanks
urban portal
balmy coral
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/proudmoore/skylarstella
Gotta get each one in the orange
shut summit
pure sun
almost got the 100 m sludge parse but wiped at 2% 😦
fringe marten
Some discrepancy people are having for mDenathrius..about where the first couple wracking pains go in p2
you get 1 wrack on the first add, Interrupt the first spawned red add..then in about 2 sec you need to get him across to mirror; hit wrack on gloomveil..then he hand of D's and pulls us in.
young oasis
Wowhead Sire Mythic guide have everything explained. Go to the Tank tips and tricks section there. Its really easy explanation, with pictures etc.
versed cedar
i only have the wall leggo and im using bolster for m+, but for raid, should i still use it or AM??
being more tanky wise
unique shale
i only have the wall leggo and im using bolster for m+, but for raid, should i s...
just kill bosses faster don't need to be super tanky
versed cedar
like wer 5/10m rn and in xymox prog we r not that good ;-; lmao ;-;
we were 2 brm monk and our RL didnt like to have 2 same tanks and other tank just play brm so im swaping war
i gotta be tanky;-;
unique shale
like wer 5/10m rn and in xymox prog we r not that good ;-; lmao ;-;
we were 2 br...
which covenant
unique shale
I was thinking about venthyr but spear is cool af and op for m+
If you are looking to be super tanky kyrain and necro are the way cause others heavily dps gain in ST or AOE
Run wall and Bolster
versed cedar
Run wall and Bolster
Is AM just bad??
Compared with bolster for staying alive? (In raid)
unique shale
Is AM just bad??
Compared with bolster for staying alive? (In raid)
AM is base talent for raiding but if you want to be just tanky than run bolster cause it can save your ass a lot of times
versed cedar
AM is also the default for m+ with Reprisal.
i dont have repisal tho ;-;
new char, just have one leggo
unique shale
AM is also the default for m+ with Reprisal.
AM and seismic logo are the way to do good deep change my mind
versed cedar
AM is base talent for raiding but if you want to be just tanky than run bolster ...
yes yes , im just affraid to dying ;-;
jagged pier
that 100% depends
versed cedar
whats the part that saves your life in bolster, the 1min less cd or SB on top of LS? (im noob sry)
jagged pier
on what leggo u are running
ionic fern
whats the part that saves your life in bolster, the 1min less cd or SB on top of...
Playing the class correctly.
versed cedar
so im fucked LMAO
jagged pier
if u are running reprisal u do not need bolster
versed cedar
i started protwar like 1and a half week ago
elfin nova
Bolster's defensive strength comes from it making LS give you shield block
jagged pier
as repirsal alone gives you enough sb for when u need it as in raiding you dont need 100% uptime u just need shield block when you are tanking
unique shale
Easy mode plz
versed cedar
as repirsal alone gives you enough sb for when u need it as in raiding you dont ...
intervene and charge even when im actually tanking?
jagged pier
intervene and charge even when im actually tanking?
u can intervene when you tanking 100%
and u can charge just before u need to tak
sometimes even twice so u already ahve like 6 secs of block when u start tanking
for instance what i do is i know i have to taunt in like 3 seconds
i move out charge in
then intervene the other tank and taunt
bam easy got block up already
then u justuse sb when that falls off
and once youve blown through your 2 shield block charges youll be swapping again
versed cedar
do u think i should craft reprisal? or upgrade my wall? mine is 210;-;
lucid sand
reprisal is insanely strong right now
jagged pier
well reprisal rank 1 is better than r4 wall for mythic plus and if played correctly a lot better in the raid as well
unique shale
reprisal is also dps gain in raid right ?
jagged pier
and mythic plus
lucid sand
free revenges are always nice to have
jagged pier
well and in m+ u run BSC so the revengj always does 50% more damage
versed cedar
ya so imma wait thorgast be nice to me and craft that
jagged pier
or go get it in twisting corridors
unique shale
i want to farm log what is bis talent and trinket for it
i have alreay 95% average on all of bosses
jagged pier
BV/AM then phial and dreadvessel
w/ sim your trinkets and talents
they will tell you what top
unique shale
aright
jagged pier
but most of it comes from play and the raid around u
jagged pier
like most kills are speed kills now so u wont get much higher tbh
unique shale
i have phial good deeps
idk my guild new guild want to do a fresh HC CN to see who is good or not for mythic progression
i already saw other tanks log in guild and they are at 50% or 30% average
unique shale
idk should i push myself higher or not
lucid sand
tank damage can be important, but it should always be more about which tanks are the most knowledgable at mechanics
postitioning bosses and pproperly swapping will help out the raids dps far more tahn individual dps parses
jagged pier
thats the same for any class in the raid or role
if your pushing into mythic
mechanics are so much more important
than your dps parse
lucid sand
mythic cn is especially brutal if you ignore mechanics
lucid sand
Huntsman will be a wall for your guild if they prioritize dps over mechanics
unique shale
i mean i was fine doing first 3 bosses on m+ with full dps build with only scale
jagged pier
shreikwing can wipe u if u ignore mechanics
the first 3 are a joke though and usually are
and u will always run AM in raid
because u dont need bolster
unique shale
i always get sun king postitioning wrong can sombody give me some tips
versed cedar
u can intervene when you tanking 100%
ty ty ❤️
versed cedar
i always get sun king postitioning wrong can sombody give me some tips
ask a lock to make a portal for u
i do that ^^
unique shale
i mean its get very messy on m+ and i panic
jagged pier
i always get sun king postitioning wrong can sombody give me some tips
this worries me in mythic a lot of the bosses after the first 3 have pretty precise positioning
u should probably work on stuff like that instead of care about dps
lucid sand
if only they would do that with charge
unique shale
u should probably work on stuff like that instead of care about dps
yeah probably should cause i recently making build and trinket for dps gains instant of playing as tank
jagged pier
u shouldnt care about dps until u have the basics down tbh
tame jasper
shreikwing can wipe u if u ignore mechanics
Same to huntsman, that's why my guild wiped there on heroic every single week - even after killing sire on hero
unique shale
hazy sparrow
is it me or did they change Heavy Repercussion?
ionic fern
It used to be +1 Shield Block and 30% increased SS damage.
Now it's +1 Shield Block and 3 extra rage per SS
hazy sparrow
aww i dont like it now
blazing condor
honestly is there a reason why heroic throw needs a minimum range
my fat ass panda too strong to not throw his weapon at least 8 yards
tame cape
It used to be +1 Shield Block and 30% increased SS damage.
Now it's +1 Shield Bl...
- 1 second that is
brittle owl
my fat ass panda too strong to not throw his weapon at least 8 yards
sounds like your panda is kinda concave in the skull area 
brittle owl
honestly is there a reason why heroic throw needs a minimum range
probably to avoid a situation where you just heroic throw spam on ST to keep threat
sweet summit
it would be cringe to use hc throw as a st dps increase on bosses
sturdy thicket
i have a question for you guys
i was in a +11 spires
I was running into the issue with mobs spreading out way to much and not being able to dps them
The dps where dps them or dpsing hard while i was kiting so i did not die
then complained to be about them going full ham on mobs i only have a few secs to build aggro and them ripping aggro off me
lime urchin
Unless you write that you need some time to get threat when grabbing a couple of mobs, this will happen when pugging.
jagged pier
well depends what abilites your are using
u shouldnt be loose threat
but u also shouldnt be kiting in an 11
sturdy thicket
tell that to the healer i was with
lime urchin
I am assuming you are grabbing different packs or something and wanted to create one big deathball
Otherwise, it’s what Jakey said
Or maybe you mean the jumpy boys after 1st boss
sturdy thicket
i can show you where this happened
jagged pier
its not only on the healer to keep u alive if your dying in an 11 it sounds like you are doing somthing very wrong at a fundimental lvl
lime urchin
You can do some tricks there to make them jump in the same direction into a wall
lime urchin
You pull those three packs together?
sturdy thicket
no
lime urchin
Oh
sturdy thicket
the tigers killed him quicky
i legit thing in this brain he blamed me for his death
yes the stacks of greif and the bleed for the tiger things had nothing to do with that
aslo idk if this is me but there dps seemed low
3.7k feral overall 3.3k outlaw and 3.1k ench
distant kestrel
For an 11 its ok i guess, i get 4k with my 190 alt but if they prepull and blame u then that says alot about them 💀
sturdy thicket
we had two shamans who really liked using earth ele at the start of pulls too
distant kestrel
Also, I restarted playing prot after maining it in BfA, if u see like ur kiting a lot, ure probably understimating the power of Shield Block and Ignore Pain
sturdy thicket
i do not think the healer used spirit link once
distant kestrel
Ur proly using too many major defensives at once, u got the reprisal legendary I guess?
distant kestrel
Go "best SERVED cold" talent
Ravager and Anger Management
Ull have Avatar for every other pull, Ravager is big dmg on every pull and best served cokd makes u use DEMO shout more as an extra defensive rather than an extra dmg cd
sturdy thicket
why not heave rep for more uptime of shield block?
distant kestrel
Cos ull have enough shield block uptime with the leggo
Like u can use rep
But unless ur doing +26s, its not that worth
sturdy thicket
ok why ravager is i will not have that up every pull?
distant kestrel
Its on a 45sec cd, so ull have it on almost every pull or every 2 pulls and it generates rage and does more dmg out of the other talents
quiet crane
UF is not great rav helps with threat and alot more damage overall but will do nothing for you defensively and run AM not reperccussion's or bolster if you ytuly feel you need an extra strong defensive
sturdy thicket
this is random but i miss old ravager
it did have a def part at one point
i think it was inc to parry?
quiet crane
35% parry but wasnt ever taken
sturdy thicket
it was in WoD
if fact with if we had old ravager that would be a combo with revenge talent
sturdy thicket
this is going to be random but i wish we whent back to the old times for roles
brittle owl
this is going to be random but i wish we whent back to the old times for roles
wdym by that
sturdy thicket
tanks tanked not worried about there dps same thing with healer
jagged pier
tanks always worried about their dps
its a big factor
once u dont die
u should be focusing on dps
distant kestrel
Nowadays u just get people playing at a certain level that things like dat matter
jagged pier
even in vanilla u needed to do dps to keep threat
sweet summit
Not this again mate 
jagged pier
yes this again
jagged pier
what?
distant kestrel
@jagged pier proly speaking from a high-end point of view, @sturdy thicket proly speaking from a more casual point of view, like how things were back then
jagged pier
yer but if your casual
being defensive doesnt matter
as u will do nothing where u need to be defesnive
like we've seen logs in here of ppl clearing hc without pressing SB
and wondering why they are taking to much damage
sturdy thicket
Yes
sturdy thicket
Dude your wrong
jagged pier
after you are living u work on damage has been true since vanilla
jagged pier
i mean in MoP and WoD i ran dps trinkets
sturdy thicket
That does not make it right
jagged pier
becuase if u played vengance correctly you were literally unkillable
sturdy thicket
AT ALL
jagged pier
look we arent going to agree
im just saying defensive tanks have never really been a thing
strong forum
im pretty sure nobody can convince the other person here cuz youre literally talking gearing choices from 5+ years ago
jagged pier
well he said doing dps as a tank wasnt a thing till m+
strong forum
on which i would side with jakey, i refuse to believe people played turtle builds exclusively
jagged pier
which is just a lie
sturdy thicket
legion where m+ came out healers and tanks still used healer and tank trinkets
sturdy thicket
cool for you
strong forum
tank trinkets are dogshit outside of very specific scenarios
sturdy thicket
that does not mean you where right
jagged pier
how are we not right? we arent dying so we are doign our job as the role
strong forum
and what says that you are right either chaos
jagged pier
like why does not equiping trinkets that do nothing for us make it wrong
strong forum
if my word isnt cutting it, yours isnt cutting it either ykno
jagged pier
thats just wasted gear slots
strong forum
unless we have evidence, words mean nothing
:^)
im against turtle builds cuz through logic alone theyre not worth to play outside of specific scenarios
brittle owl
tanks tanked not worried about there dps same thing with healer
i don't wanna shit in your cornflakes, but fury prot has been a thing since vanilla
tanks removing items to generate more threat has always been a thing
the only exception is
before the general population of players were less knowledgeable about stuff like this
nowadays it's an accepted normal
jagged pier
^^
sturdy thicket
Furry port was not really a thing is vanilla
jagged pier
yes it was
brittle owl
for the top players
jagged pier
^^
sturdy thicket
that came form the mid max of privite servers into classic
brittle owl
and info wanst shared
narp
i think there's even speedrun videos from back in the day
jagged pier
i literally played a fury/prot hybrid in vanilla
brittle owl
private servers just made it an established meta
jagged pier
i was trash at the game but i know it was a thing because i played it
brittle owl
not to mention
tbc when you'd unequip pants in sunwell
to get hit more to generate rage
because avoidance cap was a thing
sturdy thicket
you know there is a video of nihilum killing KT form the view of there tank
brittle owl
sturdy thicket
1H and Sheild
brittle owl
KUNGEN BIS TANK
sweet summit
Kungen??
brittle owl
strong forum
knugen
sweet summit
I love kungen man
brittle owl
nukgen
jagged pier
u still ran a shield on heavy tank damage fights
even if u were fury build
like what?
brittle owl
you ALWAYS minmaxed dps and surv
since vanilla
back then you did it for one specific reason
jagged pier
u still spec'd into shield block 1 talent so u can have 100% uptime on sb if u need itwith the fury tanking
brittle owl
threat
nowadays threat is not a thing anymore
but
tank dps is way higher, proportionately
strong forum
its too much of a thing still, it shouldnt exist period
brittle owl
so the opportunity cost remains essentially the same
strong forum
:^)
sturdy thicket
then why where tanks that did not play privite server had no idea about duel wield tanking?
sturdy thicket
Bullshit
sweet summit
sturdy thicket
Honesty that is bullshit
strong forum
99% of private server andys are literal trash
brittle owl
of the state of the inyernet in 2006-2010
strong forum
just wanna throw that out there
strong forum
if you play vanilla
for 14 years on priv servers
and you cant figure out a simple thing like anything but 1h+shield tanking when everything in the game is aj oke and you dont min max, sorry thats on you m8
brittle owl
like, lmao, you could even argue that minmaxxing dps was even more important "bAcK iN tHe DaY" since more threat directly increased raid dps
sturdy thicket
classic and vanilla where never the same
sturdy thicket
No hear me out
brittle owl
and it should be plainly obvious to someone that played vanilla that this was the case
sturdy thicket
The game is the same
brittle owl
oh shit
sturdy thicket
The medset of the players is not
strong forum
yes
brittle owl
we doin logic donuts again
strong forum
players in classic were fucking trash compared to now
brittle owl
waiting for the 360
brittle owl
players in classic were fucking trash compared to now
so much this
another fact that should be plainly obvious to someone that played back then
strong forum
like you LITERALLY had 20 out of 40 people in a raid AFK
and wonder why the boss is hard
AAAAH
jagged pier
the game is not same
strong forum
i accidentally fullscreened discord
brittle owl
shit there were 5 man ony kills in 1.12
strong forum
how i do stop it from fullscreening
strong forum
elp
jagged pier
there was a 2 man kill in classic
strong forum
i cant move it
jagged pier
just to prove u could do it
sturdy thicket
umm there sould be a box beside the x
brittle owl
f11
brittle owl
alt-f4
strong forum
no
sweet summit
Have you tried turning it off and on again
brittle owl
my mum does work indeed
strong forum
good, its hard times
signal plover
I'll show u hard times ;)
quiet crane
Increasing your dps as a tank has always been a thing it was just always secondary to your survival first, even in vanilla it was very much a thing just not as widely known due to not having class guides and shit you could look up, like someone else mentioned more dps also means more threat allowing your raid to blast more aswell
median tulip
In vanilla wow every warrior - and I do mean every single warrior, no exceptions - took 5 points in Cruelty as the very first thing you did when respeccing
Because tank or not, 5% crit was always worth it
brittle owl
still pagoda
Because tank or not, 5% crit was **always** worth it
Threat for tanks and dps for dps
100% WORTH IT
median tulip
Vanilla wow's talents were broken in so many ways
honest plinth
Im tank. I wanna shoot my enemies. Where is my gun or something
Warrior need a New ranged spec
We will call it wild west
Double pistols oh yeah
Im drunk sorry
jagged pier
go play star wars then
brittle owl
saying cringe unironically
sweet summit
Cringe
brittle owl
nobody cares weeb
signal plover
I bet mael plays weeb wow
brittle owl
how much you betting
signal plover
7
brittle owl
your balance is -7 then
signal plover
Well, you should play it
distant crystal
damn i used to play it
signal plover
So that person was gkicked
distant crystal
am...am i a weeb?
sweet summit
Yes
signal plover
We're all a little weeb
brittle owl
i have 0 interest in weeb games
brittle owl
limited interest in other weeb related activities
distant crystal
it's a terminal case
brittle owl
weeb games can suck it tbh
signal plover
Oh you're gonezo brother
brittle owl
not yet
signal plover
^
brittle owl
signal plover
Dude idk ffxiv is growing on me
brittle owl
i find the aesthetic garbo
signal plover
But then blizz is like HERES TBC YOU FUCKBOI
distant crystal
it's kinda neat
sweet summit
distant crystal
the whole job system and stuff
signal plover
The PvE is pretty kewl
distant crystal
i never got lvl cap or did any current/relevant pve
brittle owl
see when you say 'job system' as if to laude it
i immediately go
"yep another reason to not be interested"
brittle owl
i c
distant crystal
even tho it sounds like professions
sweet summit
Class quests 👀
brittle owl
still dc
wow is the only multiplayer game i actually enjoy
and atm i can't play it 
but replaying older rpg's pog
sweet summit
👴
signal plover
Mael = boomer now?
modern brook
The PvE is pretty kewl
ff14's problem is it has no sustainability
unless you like
really like anime house builders
you play through content, beat it
then stare at it and are like
yeah i could do it again i guess
signal plover
Runescape has no tiddies
modern brook
Runescape has no tiddies
strong forum
Kultiran in runescape :poggies:
signal plover
I stand corrected
modern brook
Kultiran in runescape :poggies:
Heres a peice of trivia u neither asked for nor care about:
in BFA, next to the portal for the Boralus dungeon, there's a KT man and a orc woman sitting on the pier
the couple is reverse shrek 🙂
signal plover
This is the kind of scoop ppl come to this discord for.
modern brook
🙂
naive mauve
Does anyone play with nightfae as tank in m+? Is there a huge difference in playstyle compared to kyrian? Is the kyrian flask too op for prot?
modern brook
yes, no, no in order
modern brook
kyrian is only op on necro weeks
honestly not even op on necro weeks warrior doesnt really give a shit about necro relatively speaking
honest plinth
ok
solar cave
Is protection really the highest skill flour tank? Last time i checked prot was easy was best mitigation tank white more spiky dmg i tak tanjs were considered more difficult. What has changed?
Floor
modern brook
Is protection really the highest skill flour tank? Last time i checked prot was ...
prot warrior mitigation is nearly 100% proactive
has been since at least legion
so its harder to sight read a fight as prot
than it is on tanks with self heal
solar cave
Isnt proactive more safe and easier?
modern brook
🤷♀️ depends on the person i guess
solar cave
Ok
honest plinth
Is protection really the highest skill flour tank? Last time i checked prot was ...
you get older
solar cave
Y i feel that
modern brook
most people use defensives as "oh shit" buttons
and warrior kinda sucks if you play like that
solar cave
Sry fking tablet witam bad correction
modern brook
yeah
signal plover
No no don't be sorry
solar cave
Also pl native
signal plover
Gitgud Bread needs to exist
honest plinth
🍞
modern brook
🍞
solar cave
Rip
signal plover
🍞
solar cave
Came as a noob left as a meme
signal plover
It is a powerful destiny
elfin nova
One thing i liked about protection re: this tier is we had bosses that were dangerous with their white swings
Sire meleed my dh for 45k once in p3 on prog and i died from 60% whilst nothing was really happening
That would never happen to a warrior
honest plinth
warrior was pretty bad on the start of expansion anyway
signal plover
Not at all
honest plinth
🙂
honest plinth
you was here just for battle shout 😄
elfin nova
I mean it was used for world first it's hardly like it was unplayable. but darkee did say the dh did most of the heavy lifting in p3
honest plinth
I mean it was used for world first it's hardly like it was unplayable. but dark...
it wasnt nplayable
battle shout is a thing
and dps warriors were bad
elfin nova
Yes but what's your definition of "was bad"
Because all tanks were tanky enough to clear CN
honest plinth
we needed some buffs and got it
elfin nova
Limit thought warrior was better than brewmaster even ignoring raid buffs, and the fact brewmaster did more damage
But anyway it's whatever this is besides the point
I'm just glad they buffed havoc
plush tendon
im pretty sure it was less to do about Brewmaster damage over War and more so to the fact that WW was very strong
and war DPS was lackluster
plus extra rally is better then second mystic touch
signal plover
I mean you can put any spin or explanation on it, warr was good enough to tank WF race
plush tendon
Every tank was
plush tendon
Im just clarifying the reasoning for WF, which is a totally different game
signal plover
K
plush tendon
I mean obviously viable; Prot War was there on the WF kill; but so was everything else
it just depended on what strategy the guilds came up with
Probably the only tank not considered for WF was Prot Paladin since the damage on P3 Dany is pretty nutty at those I levels
chilly brook
we needed some buffs and got it
The only buff we got is the buff every other tank got lmao
Well we got reprisal remade
But lol we didnt need that
honest plinth
The only buff we got is the buff every other tank got lmao
are you sure?
chilly brook
Yes unless you wanna say a small damage aura buff was exactly what we needed
chilly brook
I mean it was?
honest plinth
ill not drama here
chilly brook
ill not drama here
It literally took us from last to competing for last lmao, and please feel free to drama and tell me how wrong I am
Aura buffs are not all that impactful
honest plinth
ye but many warr mains switched to dh for m+ for example
and after few buffs they switched back
nerf even did like +26 top?
chilly brook
You don't play DH in m+ for the damage......
honest plinth
i think you are lost
elfin nova
Nerf definitely didn't switch to warrior
chilly brook
You can think what you like
elfin nova
And bear is the best anyway
chilly brook
But you're objectively wrong
amber herald
honest plinth
wrong? warrior is better than it was at strt
placid oar
Erm I believe those that swapped to DHs were just those jumping on the meta hype train. Most that swapped back seem to be for the same reason thinking and just blindly following the hype.
If u played warrior since the start of expansion, nth really changed much for us except like what Griff mentioned.
chilly brook
Moving goal posts I see
flint tiger
hard agree on kleia simping though
Actually have been thinking more about running Kleia instead of pelagos.
chilly brook
and after few buffs they switched back
Apparently this wasn't said
jagged pier
wrong? warrior is better than it was at strt
its pretty much the same actually just reprisal allows u to do more damage
chilly brook
Warrior is in a better place because reprisal but it's not some huge difference tbh
DH is still gonna be meta
Because group comp
honest plinth
Erm I believe those that swapped to DHs were just those jumping on the meta hype...
what do you mean by nothing
just 1 reprisal rework is what made us stronger by a large amount
chilly brook
We play AM in all content and now are charge whores
modern brook
Actually have been thinking more about running Kleia instead of pelagos.
Kleia w/ 9.1 soulbinds has a strong claim to be bis tbh
lavish hare
I love those discussions and get amazed by the fact you all play like 500 classes and toons, knows all their casts and pros and cons, and I’m here like, only played warr my entire life! Since vanilla! Dont know how you do ir when I cant keep up with only one toon. I mean, what do you do for a living? 😬
placid oar
what do you mean by nothing
The others just answered your question sir.
chilly brook
So much change
honest plinth
The others just answered your question sir.
i have no questions
modern brook
Being able to get a garunteed potency makes it so you can avoid all the bad stuff in eraly in her tree without losing out on spear conduit
honest plinth
but i can answer on yors if yo have some
elfin nova
🍿
chilly brook
just 1 reprisal rework is what made us stronger by a large amount
I mean I had 85% blocked hits without reprisal on sludge I guess I'm just so much better with reprisal now
placid oar
i have no questions
Erm u asked what did I mean by nothing.
honest plinth
Because group comp
we have no idea about 9.1 comps
chilly brook
And not running bolster either
chilly brook
we have no idea about 9.1 comps
Fire mage isn't leveled into the ground and priest is gonna be nuts in terms of multi dotting
It's a safe bet that your group is still gonna be spell cleave if you're pushing seriously
honest plinth
idk. we will see
flint tiger
Kleia w/ 9.1 soulbinds has a strong claim to be bis tbh
I just took a look at the 9.1 tree and damn it looks so nice. Curious if the 3% passive DR is just too much to give up for high keys right now. Feel like our block is effective enough for all melee damage and the flat DR is more for bleeds/magic.
elfin nova
I would say that saying reprisal is a pretty significant change for m+ is fair. But at this point we're just tagging each other repeating the same stuff
lavish hare
<@732631324325838858> level all 6 tanks
I will never do that hehe. I just play to have fun, my warr is fun, I can do all content, get my gear, get achieves.
flint tiger
Almost feel like free burst heal to clutch a teammate is more valuable.
lavish hare
Btw, doesnt matter what tank you play, eventualy they will do all content the same way, depends on your whole team
So all this discussion ends nowhere 🙂
honest plinth
Almost feel like free burst heal to clutch a teammate is more valuable.
take a look at nf dreamweaver
i dont think it will go live
but
chilly brook
I would say that saying reprisal is a pretty significant change for m+ is fair. ...
I just feel like it's 8.1 all over again. People pointing to IP off GCD and a small vanguard buff as the reasons for why prot is super tanky when it was that way since the beginning people just didn't press their buttons.
flint tiger
Damn, NF shield looks nice too. My group doesn't have anyone that would go kyrian, so I'll be staying angel bro. It's fine though, cause that's the covenant I wanted anyway lolol
honest plinth
nf is 30% dr
elfin nova
I mean it really just depends what the question you're asking is
honest plinth
they ofc will nerf it to maybe 5% idk
flint tiger
I'd be curious mechanically how the NF shield would work though. From how it's written, I'd think you take the full damage first, and then you get the shield for 30% of that damage afterward when it first happens
and then every other hit afterward would still be for the full amount, but the shield gets eaten first before health, and then the new shield is applied?
so almost like an additional IP shield?
elfin nova
If it's the trait I'm thinking of I remember when I first read it it just seemed like it would have some cooldown
What's the wording?
lavish oracle
I feel like reprisal has a bigger impact on out strength in M+ than IP off the GCD had
But I think we were fine before it
lime silo
What leggos do you guys run in torghast?
elfin nova
Attack enemy
lavish oracle
I don't swap leggos for torg
elfin nova
Do you have seismic
lavish oracle
I just run around in reprisal because at this point I could do torg with my eyes closed
If I wanted to speed run I'd probably go seismic
elfin nova
I did twisting as fury, normal torghast you can just press w with reprisal
Optimising it this patch doesn't matter that much
flint tiger
@elfin nova
flint tiger
it just says lasts 3 seconds, not sure if there's an internal cooldown.
but as it reads, would seem insane unless i'm fundamentally misunderstanding (entirely possible l mao)
elfin nova
Yeah so there's obviously either a cooldown not listed
Or it will be heavily nerfed from 30% before going live
flint tiger
right i assume as much as well
but the idea of it if it won't have an internal CD would still be a ton of passive mitigation
elfin nova
Most likely it will land at being good for dps (unless you only care about one big hit) and mediocre for tanks
flint tiger
even if it was like 5%
yeah, otherwise it'd be too insane to not go NF as a tank right?
elfin nova
5% is on the high side but ~3% is around where passive drs other from soulbinds trees are
elfin nova
amber herald
do we know what kyrian soulbinds are getting?
elfin nova
Yeah so
jagged pier
🤔
amber herald
nooo I don't want to be a furry again 
shut summit
Yup
amber herald
I've played both and I prefer kyrian because I'm a dwarf and you can cheese stuff 
dots? what are those
soulshape I miss though
honest plinth
Yeah so there's obviously either a cooldown not listed
it has no icd
flint tiger
lol hilarious how the devs don't think that far through it
will obv. get nerfed but that's hilarious it's testable
elfin nova
Evidently
flint tiger
i wonder if tanks are just invincible in M+ now lol
chilly brook
You think it's bad for tanks?
elfin nova
But i was talking more about what it will be like by the time it goes live
flint tiger
omg, you're right
all arena matches
triple NF vs triple NF
except maybe healers i guess
honest plinth
But i was talking more about what it will be like by the time it goes live
also as Sense said shield affected by vers. but for bears it affected with mastery also for example
flint tiger
all the absorbs
chilly brook
Monk is actually gross with Scale
strong forum
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/V2mDX8hRQgyFBKAG#fight=last&type=healing&so...
what in the fuck
thats an anime power, right
elfin nova
No it's a soulbind trait
strong forum
yeah
okay
nice
basically 30% perma DR
im outy
actually, with this tanks might actually be able to play the game
limpid star
that's a trait on dreamweaver?
honest plinth
y
limpid star
but my first strike...
strong forum
who cares about first strike if youre literally walking around with a perma bark
limpid star
me bc I like the big yellow numbers when I first strike AA
I'd absolutely play it though I also do like being unkillable
honest plinth
it will not go live relax 😄
strong forum
it has to get nerfed to atleast 15% with an internal CD
honest plinth
it can be nerfed to 3% wo cd
strong forum
then its a little too weak
kultiran passive is already nothing
and thats literally perma active
strong forum
thing is, the new soulbind traits are supposed to be "broken"
all soulbinds get something nutty right
honest plinth
i mean draven LAST soulbind
strong forum
Mikanikos gets the reduced spear CD + extra dmg
honest plinth
is 3% dr
grave wedge
Hey guys so noob question here. Anyone know a good streamer who plays prot. Mained prot from wrath to legions prepatch. Havent used it sense and im looking to shake off the rust and adjust tp the changes its undergone without just reading walls of text
strong forum
Andy, Plka and Sense
honest plinth
not with 100%
depends on fight
its just 1% on solo target
like.....its nothing
amber herald
which cov?
amber herald
decent
dusk shuttle
any recommendations for covenant choice? i see conflicting opinions
strong forum
i recommend kyrian, but generally you can get away with every single one
jagged pier
strong forum
they all have ups and downs, with venthyr having the most "downs"
dusk shuttle
it's more the decision between kyrian and NF
strong forum
90% of dps players are NF already
nobody is Kyrian besides Tanks and WW
thats one of the big reasons to go kyrian
NF is more dmg but you dont get potion, but you can CC caster packs quite effectively
dusk shuttle
is there any indicator of which cov will be better in 9.1 yet?
strong forum
all speculation
dusk shuttle
i have 0 interest in playing my warrior as a dps so that doesn't really play a factor here
strong forum
Kyrian leggo is not known yet, that might take a huge swing in balance
dusk shuttle
is that potion a huge deal?
strong forum
not huge, but good QoL
stark sage
biggest point for going Kyr is that not many other classes play it, so you can benefit from the dungeon tools
strong forum
at all
dusk shuttle
gotcha
stark sage
its basically on par with NF in a vacuum
but since everyone is already NF
then you dont get the extra value from the dungeon tools
stark sage
the spears in spires make some of those rough pulls a total joke too
fierce field
It's also more of a pain to use the dos stun dungeon tool as a tank vs dps, and dps cover that covenant a lot.
jagged pier
oh theres a Spell reflect cheese on a boss in the new raid cant wait for that to be stopped
flint tiger
90% of dps players are NF already
nobody is Kyrian besides Tanks and WW
thats on...
I'm repping that 10% of dps that started and stayed as kyrian, and probably the even smaller % of players rocking arms till i die 💪
jagged pier
i still have my free swap
modern brook
whyd u say it like thaT?
short kiln
I'm on the fence about moving to Kyrian over NF myself for the dungeon utility... can't bring myself to do it yet though.
modern brook
because your first cov swap is free
all cov swaps are free if you havent been in it before
ie kyr->ven->necrolord
havent had to do [loveme-quest] once yet
modern brook
Jakey loyal af
i went to ven for pvp
and then learned it was a crutch
and swapped to necrolord to just start maxing renown on all 4
signal plover
Kleias grip on me too strawng
modern brook
she does have powerful, gripping thighs.
signal plover
V pawerful
modern brook
Yeah that's why I'm gaining the renown now
Not like there's anything to do I'll 9.1 anywys
fierce field
i'm going to be sad when Mekanikos is BIS in 9.1 because I hate the Bronn mechanic
fierce field
I split between Pelagos and Kleia right now
mighty cairn
has anyone else experienced m sire going taunt immune in p3? i think we've been taunt swapping him at normal intervals with 5-6 scorns stacks and shattering pain, but he's gone immune like 1-2 mins into the phase a few times
jagged pier
yer just saw a click of it and they had done liek 1.7m damage to a boss on PTR
so thats getting a big nerf
modern brook
has anyone else experienced m sire going taunt immune in p3? i think we've been ...
honetly my guess is some troll ass hunter
but I truly dont know
tame cape
has anyone else experienced m sire going taunt immune in p3? i think we've been ...
never had that issue
flint tiger
because your first cov swap is free
wait i'm confused, what do you mean by free? thought you have to grind 1-max?
tame cape
has anyone else experienced m sire going taunt immune in p3? i think we've been ...
i guess it´s not your co-tank weaving in some cheeky taunts to boost his threat?
flint tiger
Kleias grip on me too strawng
outta curiosity, what makes you prefer kleia over pelagos? i sometimes question how strong the 3% DR on pelagos really is, when we can get crit and the proc clutch heal with kleia?
flint tiger
ah okay, thought you might have been going kleia even outside of necro weeks
signal plover
I might in 9.1
inland raft
Nf goes brrrr
modern brook
ah okay, thought you might have been going kleia even outside of necro weeks
its worth noting
that you go pelagos for Combat meditation
not for let go of the past
the 3% dr is pretty whatever
combat med + phial of paitence
chilly brook
yer just saw a click of it and they had done liek 1.7m damage to a boss on PTR
We never get fun
flint tiger
is the mastery bonus really worth that much though? figured more crit for M+ would be nicer?
idk how much % it increases for crit block
chilly brook
Cant reflect innerva because that's too OP but god forbid a blood DK can just handle Kaal the whole time because they can just ignore stunts
modern brook
is the mastery bonus really worth that much though? figured more crit for M+ wou...
its mastery (damage) during your CDs
chilly brook
modern brook
and its a lot
flint tiger
what's weird is when I sim in raidbots for damage, it tells me kleia is higher?
modern brook
yeah cause crits a really strong DPS stat
its probably ahead by like
30?
maybe 1% highest diff?
flint tiger
yeah, nothing massive
chilly brook
Crit is big dam
flint tiger
but less overall defensive value cause mastery gives crit block i guess?
so that's why we like pelly?
modern brook
but less overall defensive value cause mastery gives crit block i guess?
sort of not really
Kleia's forced into a very specific path to take crit
chilly brook
Also 10% damage increase or something
modern brook
because you still want to use Piercing verdict
and that path has very bad soulbinds
modern brook
conversely Pelly can take all his best options
with phail of paitence, double endurance, and ip/safe
Kleia is basically forced into mentorship
which is feffectively like never active since you're tanking
ascendant phial has some really cute niche applications in both raid (currently at least) and in keys (namely Halls)
but you cant afford to lose Piercing verdict and have kleia still compete
flint tiger
kk makes sense. was thinking the tradeoff of losing the 35% extra healing pelagos trait for the 1 min cd kleia heal was worth
cause i'd always be taking piercing (outside maybe necrotic weeks)
modern brook
in general, when looking at defensive stuff like healing
Random procs are always worse by virtue of them being random
Being in control of your damage intake is a huge part of tanking
Phial of paitence helps a lot with that.
valiant strikes ends up being dumped into a lazy dps standing in shit
honestly though th real sauce going forward will be Hope Springs Eternal + Ascendant phial
100% that has an application somewhere
light the path is also really cool cause lol heres 10% crit basically for picking the soulbind
p cool
modern brook
At least, his new trait does
are people excited about the new capstone or reactive retrofitting?
safe thistle
with mika in 9.1 spear would turn into a 40 seconds cd
jagged pier
yes
signal plover
@modern brook idk what this means
modern brook
I think Jake answered me in entirety
signal plover
Oh are those the names of da traits
worthy karma
rancid ember
Is it confirmed that the Megadungeon won't have M+ in 9.1 ?
modern brook
historically megadungeons dont get m+ until the patch after they're introduced, at which point they're sliced in half
IDK if aynthings been explicitly said
rancid ember
Has there been others besides Junkyard/Workshop?
modern brook
Kara
rancid ember
That's beat was really hoping for some new M+ Dungeons in the rotation
safe thistle
i think it took longer in bfa to get new dungeon no ?
modern brook
season 3
oh nvm it was 4 apparently?
unless rio is just being an idiot
I didnt play in season 3 so
signal plover
There was no new dungeon in the BoD tier
safe thistle
it was with eternal palace
signal plover
Long mechagon was s3
modern brook
oh yeah i remember that
modern brook
I was not raiding ep and complaining about how fucking stupid emissaries was while grinding Mecha rep for flying
safe thistle
lol crucible was a shit show once done you never put your feet back there
modern brook
I would prefer more big dungeons to mini raids
safe thistle
true
modern brook
i still think true 10 man content as an inbetween would be really cool
safe thistle
karazhan was fine
mehcagon was 5 man it could had been cool as a 10 man version at first
signal plover
Sperms
modern brook
maybe the 5 mancontent interacts with the other team
IDK
point is theres shit there that could be really cool
safe thistle
oh ya like your on 1 part of a dungeon and the other 5 man in another part and you need to open gate or mechanics for the other team to advance ?
modern brook
yeah
Or like in the middle theres like a boss fight
and if the other teams slow
the team there has to fight both
so they have to like coordinate timing
safe thistle
it remind me a bit of the treausre guy in BoD
signal plover
Opulence was a good fight tbh
modern brook
Smh
safe thistle
Opulence was shit when your RL was resto druid and her side always failed
stark sage
like as real rough draft concept
isnt this basically how FF14 LFR works, you have 3 8 man teams that kinda do different parts of a raid encounter
its all piss easy but the concept is there
modern brook
isnt this basically how FF14 LFR works, you have 3 8 man teams that kinda do dif...
IDK ff14 is for weebs
stark sage
tru
modern brook
but if it is: they stole it from me
stark sage
modern brook
nah I'm an open source guy
but theres an * in all my tos that says i get to take credit for being the original idea haver
so eat shit square
safe thistle
but ya i like your idea it could bring a new kinda of playstyle where tank would not feel bored cause your group goes as fast as the whole group goes even the tank 😛
modern brook
I mean there def needs to be some iteration on the diea
cause you'd have to balance like each path by time spent etc
stark sage
could do checkpoints where side A needs side B to do something to progress
like portal 2 co op puzzles
safe thistle
and where at some area both meet each other to fight a boss
stark sage
yea
modern brook
my like "elevator pitch" is like
stark sage
but like an entire dungeon like opulence
modern brook
team A takes the short high road, team B take s a long low road, they meet and fight a 10 man raid boss
stark sage
where you meet up and split off a couple times
modern brook
When team a gets to the boss first, they use shitter vehicles to support team b
signal plover
That would require the wow team to regain some freedom in their design
signal plover
Which blizz won't let em do
modern brook
Like TD cannons
safe thistle
ohhh Team A in an elevator event like first boss on uldir and Team B in mother room both meet to fight a boss afterward. kinda
ulduar vehicule fight was quite fun
would love another one
modern brook
You could also flip the concept
like comp-coop
where the dungeon is like golden Sun's arena
not sure really where to go from there tbh
But i dont get paid for this
safe thistle
lol its good brainstorming so far
modern brook
I've been known to be a 🧠
stark sage
get ready for a council boss where they have to die at the same time, but the 2 groups cant see each other
safe thistle
dont forget that Ion used to play the game so maybe youll et lead designer ! 😛
modern brook
get ready for a council boss where they have to die at the same time, but the 2 ...
yeah id like to avoid that
:^(
modern brook
dont forget that Ion used to play the game so maybe youll et lead designer ! 😛
dont wish that evil on me
Being lead designer of wow sounds like the worst punishment
safe thistle
argus death scene was fun lol a lot wasnt even moving thinking they were really dead
stark sage
Being lead designer of wow sounds like the worst punishment
die, go to Hell
have to live your days as Ion during BFA for eternity
safe thistle
ouch
modern brook
enough to make a man find god tbh
honestly imagine being the guy that has to tell a million nerds that something will be changing
safe thistle
lol #nochange
eurg
new stuff even if it fail could bring something unique and fun
modern brook
IDK i just think having content inbetween m+ and raid would be interesting
but i also think adding a timer to raids would be a good idea
so what do i know
modern brook
same even if its just raids but smaller
the worst part of raiding is commiting 3 hours of my friday to playing a video game
and then getting stuck on HD again for no fucking reasons other than everyone wants to fucking parse instead of play the game.
chilly brook
The worst part about raiding is committing 3 hours to raiding when you know the same few people are going to stop your prog
modern brook
honestly we avoided that
safe thistle
im all for 10 man that would be nice on off-night drunk-night
distant crystal
the trick is join a guild where you're one of those few people stopping the prog
modern brook
even worse tbh
imagine having to do self-reflection instead of just blaming everyone around you
🤮
distant crystal
nobody said you have to be aware of it
modern brook
fair
blazing condor
its weird seeing griff without the pog champ avatar
warm remnant
I mean #deadrealm for the spec but with everything but NW at 5 now 😄
rancid ember
modern brook
Yeesh what realm are you on like lightning blade?
Don't get me wrong proud of u and ur progress
warm remnant
Whisperwind
warm remnant
Oh, I know
modern brook
Lol
warm remnant
I'm cackling
modern brook
In bfa so I races for #1 sub rogue on server
Got it at like 1400
Then some absolute loser started challenging me
rancid ember
#1 Prot war on that server is 1660.1
modern brook
Mutt can beat that ez
rancid ember
Top 20 all you need is 950 XD
rancid ember
All them +2's you can easily bump up to 10s 😄
warm remnant
I've been a bit conservative. My SB uptimes are fine, but I have a hard time trusting pug dps
modern brook
😂 ur top 100 and haven even done a dungeon loooop
rancid ember
I don't want to know what pug dps is like in 5s
warm remnant
Let's just say Sanguine is wrrrecccking the heal charts XD
rancid ember
That's a tank issue mainly tho 😛
warm remnant
Mind you, my main isn't KSM yet. geared for it but I #justsuck
Not when the DPS won't kick
I'm halfway across the room waiting patiently
I got annoyed in a mist run and just feared shit out of the pool
rancid ember
That's fine. Try to LOS more maybe or focus on having melee mobs die away from caster mobs. I tend to do the latter alot
warm remnant
Most of the time it is watching people ST down instead of AEing
But yeah, I still have a lot of room to improve (and a god damn Scale to loot)
rancid ember
Sound silly that people would ST, but IDK what 5s are like 🤷
But if you're enjoying keys, keep pugging and add the players you like and try to have a pool of people to choose from. I don't think I've done a Pug key by myself in a while. I usually can pull 1-2 from my friends list minimum if not a full group
warm remnant
I'm mostly puglife because of my work schedule.
Like, I go back to work in 24 mins after working this morn'
rancid ember
Pug players tend to rally around a decent tank that's down to keys. DPS Puglife is tough especially in lower keys I'd imagine.