Damage?
#protection
sick sentinel
modern brook
but im only not yellow cause im not a nerd with 99 WPM typing
sick sentinel
But I know that there’s no reason now
sweet summit
rude :/
modern brook
@sweet summit
jagged pier
but im only not yellow cause im not a nerd with 99 WPM typing
you also have to beat mwahi in a duel
modern brook
SMh thats easy
jagged pier
on his rogue
cinder storm
Question, I am struggling breaking into 20s-21s. I feel that dps is a consistent issue in my grp, I have people doing around 5.5 - 6.0k and we are barely depleting keys. What is an appropiate dps range for 20-21s? My heal is disc, I often run with a bm and an outlaw last dps usually fills
jagged pier
which he never logs into
modern brook
NVm i lose
modern brook
Question, I am struggling breaking into 20s-21s. I feel that dps is a consistent...
damage numbers are very depedent on pulls and routes
modern brook
ie: I have a timed 20~ Plaguefall where we did like 4.8 overall
because so much of the route is abusing the plagueborers
iron forum
Question, I am struggling breaking into 20s-21s. I feel that dps is a consistent...
it depends on the key. in mists you should see around 8k, ToP/ SoA 6-6.5 is fine
modern brook
I would take some time before a dungeon to go over the route with your dps
jagged pier
eww plagueborer abuser
sweet summit
jesus christ i am bad
modern brook
And make sure they understand where and when they need to be using CDS
smh
why am i not yellow then 😠
iron forum
also how you are pulling will effect your groups dps a lot
20's you are fine doing bog standard safe pulls, if you want ot break into 21/22/23's youre gonna need to do more ambitious pulls
cinder storm
I ve always forced them to do nerfs route with changes that apply to our grp
iron forum
5.5-6k is enough to time 20's, but certainly less dps than they should be doing on most keys except ToP SoA and PF
sick sentinel
Okay I just want to be sure, If I want to do the most damage with aftershock I should wait for avatar to come off of cd?
So I get the damage buff from the first hit?
modern brook
Okay I just want to be sure, If I want to do the most damage with aftershock I s...
everything on cD
if they're lining up, avatar first
ionic fern
jesus christ i am bad
What's that?
modern brook
What's that?
sheer proof i am more qualified to be forged by the storm 😦
sweet summit
xD
iron forum
what is your group comp? depending how different it is, you might not be able to copy nerfs route very well. like our comp has no boomy and a prot pally tank, we found that some of the giant pulls we just simply cannot do on 23's and above so we have had more success making our own
also venth holy pally completely changes what you can and cant do
sick sentinel
Just to clarify, these numbers that you're talking for overall dps. Is this end of run details numbers or warcraft logs numbers?
sweet summit
more often than not its details numbers
modern brook
details
cinder storm
Pwar tank, disc priest, bm, rogue outlaw, last is a random usually.
modern brook
Does BM have fatty burst?
cinder storm
its pretty decent imo
cinder storm
fire mage uncap shows in ardenweald for example, but it is more consistent than some pugs dps for us
modern brook
well yeah, they're pug dps lol
cinder storm
yep, mages often are like "when do I combust"
modern brook
But not having a boomy or firemage or vhpal can make some of the mongo pulls you do really awkward
cinder storm
they saving it for next season or something
sweet summit
iron forum
honestly playing with a consistent mage is soooo much better than a pug one, moreso than any other spec i think. we play with a great mage, he does 10k overall in some dungeons but when we started playing with him he was doing like 1-2k less every key because he was still figuring out the combust timings for the route
other specs like outlaw, fury warrior dont have to think about when to use CD's really and thrive in pugs
at this point though, he knows exactly where every combust of the key is going before we even start and it really shows
strong forum
ive yet to see a rogue besides a certain fuckboi that does dmg in keys
like, im talking more than 6k dps
cinder storm
For some reason people dont like pushing keys, they like playing with alts and doing 15s
modern brook
THANK YOU MWAHI
cinder storm
I cant wrap that around my head
ionic fern
For what?
modern brook
for beating me
ionic fern
😦
strong forum
For some reason people dont like pushing keys, they like playing with alts and d...
cuz pushing is literally cringe
ionic fern
how do u type so fast
My work includes typing. 😦
modern brook
dungeons suck, affixes suck, no real rewards
honestly this
sweet summit
ah that makes sense
strong forum
im decent with typing my own shit
cinder storm
but experiencing same content but harder is like playing rifts in diablo
strong forum
but when i have to follow proper punctuation and a prewritten text i just flop
cinder storm
things that wouldnt kill you before now one shot you
iron forum
like, im talking more than 6k dps
rogues are definitely volatile but i think thats just a skill thing. ill play with random 2k-2.5k rogues and they will be 2k below everyone else, but this week i played with one of the best rogues on alliance and the difference was insane, he did like 9k in HoA and 9.5 in mists
modern brook
but experiencing same content but harder is like playing rifts in diablo
yeah but if the content sucks, making it harder doesnt make it not suck
strong forum
but experiencing same content but harder is like playing rifts in diablo
except in Diablo you slam hundreds of monsters and you get constantly stronger and you dont need to coordinate CCs and CD usage with group members
modern brook
Honestly BFA had some pretty pog dungeons tbh
sweet summit
ya
modern brook
unfortunate that the expansion sucked
SL feels like they said "oh people really liked TD right?"
dense flame
Honestly BFA was okay. I think the grind was what really deterred people after legion grind
modern brook
and made 6 TD's
dense flame
Shadowlands I think is still “good”
cinder storm
SD is TD x 2
sweet summit
hot take, TD wasnt that awful
modern brook
Honestly BFA was okay. I think the grind was what really deterred people after l...
BFA after they fixed all the problems with the borrowed power systems was fine
sweet summit
ok nvm i take it back
strong forum
i honestly miss TD in a way
modern brook
THat just took 1.5 years
sweet summit
the only redeeming part about TD was the beach pull
modern brook
^
dense flame
strong forum
Freehold??
sweet summit
dense flame
Remember when you literally were unkillable in avatar window?
modern brook
85+% melee damage
strong forum
this
sweet summit
it made me feel like a tank
strong forum
except vdh
dense flame
That’s how it should be
iron forum
i mean corruption hard carried surviability
strong forum
thats on you
dense flame
I’m talking pre corruption
modern brook
even before 8.3
cinder storm
being able to tank all those mobs felt awesome
modern brook
tell him
strong forum
wanna know my reaction=
modern brook
"wheres my TD?"
strong forum
i have a clip
dense flame
Reaping 
strong forum
i think
dense flame
sweet summit
ineffable ravager
iron forum
i havent really enjoyed tanking in previous seasons, but i really like it this season personally because it feels like i have to work to survive whereas before surviving was more of a given
but thats just a personal preference
ionic fern
i havent really enjoyed tanking in previous seasons, but i really like it this s...
That's a weird one. I don't feel in control of my own survivability at all.
dense flame
That’s fair. Granted, would be nice to be a little more independent
dense flame
Yes
iron forum
That's a weird one. I don't feel in control of my own survivability at all.
i get that, but i feel like as long as i am calling out things i am in control. like if im calling out trees, cardboards, pain supp, binding stuff like that, they beign to juts feel like extensions of my own toolkit that i get to use
modern brook
I mean
at that point you're not even playing tank
You're playing 3/5ths of a DPS class
iron forum
i mean youre not wrong, i kind of enjoy that though
modern brook
Fair enough
iron forum
strong forum
modern brook
I think SL compounded on the issue thats existed for a while: tanking is relic of an old era of the game, and Blizzard has no clue what to do with it
strong forum
just watch the first minute of this vod
this is my reaction
when playing vers corruption for the first time
sure its a baby key, but fuck me
i think i left mid key to unequip my vers gear again
modern brook
LMOA
iron forum
i wish i could access twitch at work
modern brook
without cooolies
modern brook
Just the cheater stat on the cheater race
patent osprey
i havent really enjoyed tanking in previous seasons, but i really like it this s...
👍 Agree with this unpopular opinion
strong forum
oh yeah, i even ressed our feral on first boss whilst tanking without using SW
and just not take dmg
god it was awful
critblocking was still fun tho
iron forum
👍 Agree with this unpopular opinion
❤️ i pretty much learned how to play prot by watching you, i appreciate your content
modern brook
critblocking was still fun tho
big B's are always fun
strong forum
i actually disagree that you have to work for your survival in SL
but you know who has to work to assure your tank actually survives this time around?
your dps players
if your DPS players deal negative damage, youre gonna feel so much squishier
which is just...
cinder storm
and if they dont kick or stun, or use buttons
grand drum
I just hate prideful. I want to pull and kill stuff. Not play metagame where i have to plan around a buff on a boss
modern brook
Leg sweep doesnt deal damage 😏
strong forum
yeah pride is awful
modern brook
I dont mind prideful
strong forum
slows down the pacing of dungeons alot
modern brook
IT def does that though
iron forum
that we can all agree on, i despise prideful as an affix so much
modern brook
I like prideful more than LOL ANIMA which is apparently the 9.1 affix
sweet summit
just wait until u have to rely on anima powers next season :v)
modern brook
such a bad idea
strong forum
wdym, you dont enjoy your firemage getting RNG'd so he doesnt get his 200% dmg buff every key?
iron forum
i highly doubt theres gonna be rng involved with it, i imagine itll be a set array of powers you get given every time depnding on your role or something
strong forum
wdym you dont enjoy being immortal for 1 key but then dont get immortality in the same key in the same week again?
iron forum
no seasonal affix has ever been rng so far
strong forum
if its RNG, pushing is literally fishing for anime powers
and is gonna gatekeep you even more
sweet summit
maybe thats how they plan to shift the meta 
strong forum
than high keys already do
sweet summit
oh thats boring :/
strong forum
only all rounder powers
like 30% more mainstat but you cant jump
stuff like that
50% more crit but you generate less threat
along those lines
modern brook
Idk they gotta do something stupid with it if it's going to be remotely interesting and not an rng fiesta
dusk moat
Randomness will help alleviate the meta funnel for pugs, I think.
iron forum
ill eat my shoe if its rng
modern brook
Fuck pugs
dusk moat
Could be fun.
modern brook
Fuck fun
sweet summit
if its rng ill probably quit
dusk moat
Hot take lol.
modern brook
Nothing fun about timing/not timing something to rng
dusk moat
In a game full of RNG
modern brook
In a game full of RNG
Shield slam procs don't break a key. That's the difference
iron forum
i mean, its scale though. its rng if your boomie gets a full moon in their convoke on first boss of mists, its not rng that youre able to pull off a particular giant pull
dusk moat
Just personally, stuck in a pug forced meta driven community: the chance of a non meta class being overturned with the RNG affix should increase overall class diversity.
And if you’re a good player, reacting on the fly should be engaging.
iron forum
micro rng always exists but its not usually impactful averaging out of the course of a key
dusk moat
In my opinion.
modern brook
You wouldn't react
sweet summit
thats just the community being dumb
modern brook
Like if you get bad rng on a key where it matters you reset the key
dusk moat
It makes you change play styles more on the fly as you get random abilities like torghast literally changing your rotation randomly.
It seems fun, lol
iron forum
it seems fun in a casual environment yeah, but m+ is a competitive environment
dusk moat
It’s both.
modern brook
Right because torgahst is nothing content that you just complete
iron forum
things which are fun in one are extremely toxic in the other
dusk moat
I see a problem with m+ competition with one team getting X buff and another getting Y
modern brook
Even in torgast you just reset runs with bad boss rng before gear invalidated the content
dusk moat
So I’m guessing we’ll get same buffs per week?
dusk moat
Because I agree that would be dumb to see two top teams rush to finish a top key and one team gets an insane buff and the other a less desirable
Is it possible each week we all get the same powers?
iron forum
beguiling flash back
dont even bring up the B word 
that affix was so cursed
modern brook
beguiling flash back
Beguiling made me quit
dusk moat
I forget that one. Which was that?
sweet summit
what
modern brook
what
The old school tos strategy was to deathskip to last boss, then do that fight through the last phase and then pull the whole dungeon backwards with the buff
solid cairn
i just hope that the next affixe will be something that make the route less stuck in the rock
Like if there is some thrash pulled by the dps, it 's easier the change the route
coral kayak
Yeah hate how pridful is punishing when a mob gets pulled by accident
flint tiger
for seismic legendary, would you guys put it on helmet if you don't raid mythic because higher primaries? or just base it on whether you have a 226 ilvl helm/shoulders?
opal shore
Subbing in to tank mythic, is the Wall still the play for raid?
modern brook
for seismic legendary, would you guys put it on helmet if you don't raid mythic ...
helm is higher stats so generally helm
If you odnt care and just want the immediate satisfaction of higher ilvl and have a 226 helm already, go shoulders and the only person who will call you out on it hasnt talked to a girl in 3 years anyways so
modern brook
Subbing in to tank mythic, is the Wall still the play for raid?
Reprisal has uses if activating it doesnt fuck up the boss positioning too much
Wall is just fine if you dont want to over think it though
flint tiger
thanks!
lunar jackal
Hey guys could u point out the fights in which reprisal is just blegh to use in the raid? I played brew most of the tier but im trialing tonight and Im going back to warr.
jagged pier
none really
lunar jackal
can u really game it on council?
jagged pier
@strong forum says its good on council
i havnt done council since before reprisal was in the game
lunar jackal
I feel like id get yelled at for moving out to charge back in lol
sand condor
aye fams
my guild is taking a 3rd set of skirmishers on p2
slg
that feels strange
iron forum
we did that also
jagged pier
just get them to like 50ish % then phase the boss and burn them down in that time
iron forum
we just stacked up, focused them until he did his slam then phased him
lunar jackal
How big are bleeds in raid? should i consider kyrian. I'm NF rn but I have max renown in kyr with quest ready if they are bad
iron forum
however you do it though, getitn gthat third set is fine
jagged pier
most on mythic u cant cleanse
so youll be fine
nice to know remornias bleed can be cleansed though
sand condor
kk thx gang
jagged pier
like often I had to move the boss out so we didnt push to early dont be afraid to do that
basically do all u need to do to get to phase 3
once there the boss is dead
like the first time we got into p3 clean
the boss died
like it died so fast our raid leader was still calling mechanics as the boss was dying he had no clue of the hp of the bosses
strong forum
reprisal is insane on council
so many mobs an multiple targets to charge
to get SB
mobs, other bosses, attendants
stavros on his charge
reprisal on council 📈
signal plover
Man fuck I wanna try reprisal on sire
lavish oracle
Any word on whether or not the domination sockets will work outside raid?
signal plover
Early indication are that they won't
lavish oracle
phew thought I'd have to find a guild for a sec
signal plover
Co tank intervene or
steep wraith
Just intervene random melee after every mirror move
steep wraith
Charge every taunt on remornia to avoid both the tp thing and get some block
signal plover
Plus bsc cleave
steep wraith
P3 you get full uptime just charging back after a knock, using shield block and intervene co-tank too
signal plover
Yeah makes sense.
sweet summit
@signal plover are u raiding tonight
signal plover
Ya dawg
sweet summit
When
signal plover
8est
sweet summit
Dont give me somr magic number just say how many hours from now
sweet summit
Streaming?
signal plover
Ya bb
sweet summit
Rpic
sweet summit
lucid hull
hey! a quick questing why dmg and dps is deferent in details and deferend in log?
its like 1k deference
on dps
sweet summit
Details only counts dps while in combat
signal plover
For m+ or raid?
lucid hull
m+
sweet summit
Log counts dps since the key started til it ended
signal plover
Ya what erga said
lucid hull
damm
signal plover
Details prolly better for m+ overall dps tbh
lucid hull
i try to understand what i doing wrong and i have with 220 ilvl 3.5-3.8k Dps
i jsut did a DoS 14
and i did 3.6k
sweet summit
Link the log
flint tiger
anyone know if HR on dungeons with lots of meleeing mobs is better than bolster?
sweet summit
HR will give you higher effective SB uptime than bolster, with reprisal
lucid hull
as i recall i should do 4k-5k dps
sweet summit
Give me a few minutes and ill have a look at the log mate
flint tiger
HR will give you higher effective SB uptime than bolster, with reprisal
interesting, any chance we know how much more effective it is? assuming it has to be sizable to overpass faster SW or LS
lucid hull
lime urchin
finally timing le 18s with mah legendary team!
sweet summit
interesting, any chance we know how much more effective it is? assuming it has t...
You get very close to 100% blocked hits with HR+reprisal
But lose a lot of damage for it
jagged pier
got too 94% without much effort with HR
flint tiger
damn, that's actually kind of crazy
jagged pier
well ive hit 88 without hr
flint tiger
interesting, i assume alot of it is timing when to kite around when you can't get another SB up and/or leveraging stuns/spear to keep mobs in place?
ionic fern
No.
flint tiger
i'm still getting familiar with tanking and my M+ logs look atrocious where i'm only with like 55% SB, even though I feel like I try to leap/charge and intervene on CD when possible
jagged pier
nah just playing repirsal corectly tbh
flint tiger
hmm, i guess i just am really not using it as often as i "think" i am
ionic fern
Hover over the DPS to see the "normal" one.
ancient star
@flint tiger Im in the same boat as you - cosistently lying between 50-65% SB uptime. Don't know how people have 80-95%
jagged pier
well we could be talking about different things we are talking about blocked hits or effective uptime
not total uptime
dry kite
t4 of reprisal or t2 of the wall? only still doing heroic funrun reclears
sick sentinel
<@164793108993802241> Im in the same boat as you - cosistently lying between 50...
Are you looking at blocked hits % or some uptime in combat %?
dry kite
and some key pushing
jagged pier
t4 of reprisal or t2 of the wall? only still doing heroic funrun reclears
repirsal all the way
dry kite
doing a fun run heroic tonight that itd be nice for i guess
ancient star
@sick sentinel Uptime
dry kite
is the wall not super good for raid scenarios tho?
50% shield wall to melee range teammates?
sick sentinel
<@456226577798135808> Uptime
The relevant metric is blocked hits %
ancient star
Does details show %blocked hits?
sweet summit
no
jagged pier
<@456226577798135808> Uptime
thats a very very bad metric the only way to really tell how well your doing is to log and look at blocked hits
jagged pier
is the wall not super good for raid scenarios tho?
no reprisal beats it out on every fight imo
sweet summit
@lucid hull sir, your log is set to private and i can not access it
jagged pier
50% shield wall to melee range teammates?
and thats trash
lucid hull
@sweet summit can i chance it now>?
dry kite
@jagged pier even in raid when i cant be getting much usage out of it?
jagged pier
<@!179993058186625025> even in raid when i cant be getting much usage out of it?
u get great use out of rep in raid
dry kite
just intervening? i rarely get charges off unless im taking a mechanic out
jagged pier
yer then what do u do you charge back
and u intervene melee or co tank
and u can move out and charge back just before taunt
sweet summit
works now, ty
jagged pier
rep is really strong if used properly
lucid hull
@sweet summit i have link details also
jagged pier
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/7yfNZBpDgd24RGYF#fight=last&type=damage-don...
your wasting a fair bit of rage, that can be used to revengj
sweet summit
you didnt enable advanced combat logging so i cant see everything i want to look at in the log
lucid hull
and i cant do anything about it know right?
sweet summit
you should be using Best Served Cold with reprisal, its a huge dps boost
no, not right now
but i think its fine
hot pasture
how do i check my SB uptime in warcraft logs?
jagged pier
how do i check my SB uptime in warcraft logs?
sweet summit
and yeah, you wasted like 800 rage, which is a metric fuckton
jagged pier
cast intervene 13 times over the whole dungeon as well
sick sentinel
how do i check my SB uptime in warcraft logs?
Don't look for that. Go into damage taken and look at the melee hits and blocked hits %
jagged pier
thats a lot of rage missing
that can be used for things
but your blocked hits are mega low u need to focus on that before caring about dps @lucid hull
sweet summit
do you have any weak auras to help track the duration of Shield Block?
lucid hull
i have one yeap
jagged pier
lucid hull
and that should like 80%
sweet summit
ideally even higher, but noone is perfect
i think 80% is a good benchmark tho
75-80%
sick sentinel
Well, if u are playing AM the I'd settle for a bit lower than 80% to begin with, but not 55% for sure 😛
jagged pier
looking at one of my logs i cast nearly 3 times as much in the same dungeon around the same length of time
70% is a good bench mark to start with imo
chilly brook
I think 69% is an even better benchmark tbh
sweet summit
nice
chilly brook
sweet summit
80% with the wall 
sick sentinel
Or well, not sure if we are talking M+ here since cba to scroll back 😄
sweet summit
m+
chilly brook
flint tiger
well we could be talking about different things we are talking about blocked hit...
Just to make sure I'm not looking at the wrong metric, I watched your video link and was looking on the WCL damage taken part for just me, hovering over melee and seeing blocked hit vs. hit
I assume that's what you've said gets as high as 80-90+% uptime
chilly brook
Yes
jagged pier
you can yer
dry kite
so you said 80% is the number to shoot for for blocked melee? I'm only getting like 65 as a 205
flint tiger
Is your 80-90% uptime for M+? @jagged pier
jagged pier
Is your 80-90% uptime for M+? <@!179993058186625025>
yer
chilly brook
so you said 80% is the number to shoot for for blocked melee? I'm only getting l...
With reprisal definitely
jagged pier
so you said 80% is the number to shoot for for blocked melee? I'm only getting l...
u can get 100 in most cases in raid if u do it right
flint tiger
hmm, the important takeaway is i'm either terribad at maximing charge/intervenes
or i somehow expose my back constantly
sick sentinel
Depending on key level the first thing you probably want to get right is the routing and pulls, second defenses, and eventually you can start looking at dps.
flint tiger
Might be time for me to record my dungeon attempts and watch it back
chilly brook
Yea that's no bueno
jagged pier
becuase your not using shield block correctly
chilly brook
60% on raid bosses with reprisal tho
Probably blowing shield block at times when the boss isn't attacking
dry kite
yeah probably
chilly brook
Lots of bosses have pauses in their attack pattern this tier
But like I had I think 82% blocked with The Wall on sludge
jagged pier
or i somehow expose my back constantly
could be all of the above
dry kite
fascinating. So I gotta work on saving shield block then, instead of working on uptime
jagged pier
uptime isnt worth anything as you can have it up and not being hit so its wasted
or when kiting when boss is casting etc
chilly brook
Like jakey said
Uptime is a fairly useless metric
Since the buff doesnt do you any good if it's not helping you block
dry kite
the last dude was on me about uptime smh
sweet summit
eh?
chilly brook
Who said that? Lol
jagged pier
and send him here if he starts to mouth off
dry kite
to be fair that was in m+ context
sick sentinel
🤔
chilly brook
^
Like the first pull of DoS you could have 100% uptime it doesnt matter
The melee hits are magic
jagged pier
and second
lucid hull
@sweet summit i lost sir, can you sum up the notes for me to look them up in logs
i lost you sir
sweet summit
ill dm you
lucid hull
THX YOU
flint tiger
on WCL i see some things that says unmitigated and mitigated hits. is mitigated hit something like the total amount you were hit for after like shield mitigation (e.g.: IP?)
chilly brook
If you're looking at the events
sick sentinel
IP shows as absorbed if I'm not wrong.
chilly brook
The unmitigated is what the boss hits for before anything
jagged pier
if you just go over to the hits column
chilly brook
Mitigated should show what you end up actually taking
jagged pier
and hover over it that will show the melees
the big bar shows the percentage of damage taken
flint tiger
okay, i was trying to look through the timelines and see if some of the hits that don't show like B: ##### might be more from exposing my back
and then seeing if i had a SB buff uptime around the time of the attacks
jagged pier
u can do that on logs
flint tiger
to try and figure out how badly i'm exposing my back when rounding mobs up
jagged pier
tbh it would be easier to record and watch yourself
chilly brook
Should be able to filter it to melee hits with shield block up and see how many are due to mobs being behind you
jagged pier
or that
flint tiger
as in clicking Shield Block as a source aura filter
and seeing how many hits there are?
sick sentinel
Not sure how useful it is compared to the effort though tracking that down in the logs.
jagged pier
and seeing how many hits there are?
yes u can hover over the lines
and it will show the damage u take and how much u mitigated etc etc
chilly brook
as in clicking Shield Block as a source aura filter
Like so
flint tiger
and that would indicate while you had shieldblock up, 11.68% of all hits were from exposing your back?
flint tiger
gotcha
oh wait, i just realized i wasn't hovering over hits like the video instructed facepalm I was hovering over the bar on the line of melee
and seeing this:
vs seeing this:
I assume my second screenshot is the accurate one to see how many hits i'm blocking properly with SB?
sweet summit
yea
flint tiger
ok, so i'm at 70% instead of being real bad at 50%. that's a relief lol
sweet summit
thats solid mate
flint tiger
still room to improve, but it's not like somehow i'm missing a core fundamental idea or something wild
flint tiger
thank god lmao
sweet summit
nice
sweet summit
just kill it 4heed
iron forum
i know someone who actually enjoys slg
says its their favorite fight in raid
i worry for them
misty charm
guys im super confused, i just did a NW run with my own route.. on MDT it sais i have 100.71% with it but we ended up with 99.17%, im running through the dungeon right now to see what i missed but i didnt miss anything thats on my route
is there some sort of variance or anything?=
solemn magnet
A testament to how bad the other bosses are, really
sweet summit
is there some sort of variance or anything?=
did you wipe?
solemn magnet
guys im super confused, i just did a NW run with my own route.. on MDT it sais i...
I did a NW yesterday and 1 blight bag didn't come with the other 4 after doing blightbone. We almost missed it. Could that have happened?
sweet summit
i know there can be some clunky shit if you wipe and kill a mob at the same time or something like that. that the mob doesnt give any coun then
misty charm
I did a NW yesterday and 1 blight bag didn't come with the other 4 after doing b...
im standing there right now and there are no blights left
wait i know what couldve happened
on the marauder pat theres a mob that dots himself right?
if we wipe and he dies after our wipe
maybe he doesnt give %
sweet summit
sounds plausible
feral dock
Doing +12/+14 with 205 ilvl. Feel like i am getting chunked by trashmobs and steadily dropping really low. Due to reprisal i have shield block up a huge time. Rest of my rage goes into ignorePain. I try to avoid ground effects as much as possible. Is this a matter of gear? Any way i can check whether my damage intake is unusually high?
misty charm
Doing +12/+14 with 205 ilvl. Feel like i am getting chunked by trashmobs and ste...
that sounds like a gameplay problem honestly
sweet summit
do you have logs?
solemn magnet
Doubt it's gear
misty charm
but yea logs would help
sweet summit
i doesnt seem like a gear issue, no
solemn magnet
Are you turning your back to stuff when you charge/intervene?
feral dock
I dont log keys. Maybe i should do upcoming week
misty charm
sounds plausible
is there any way to find out in retrospect?
solemn magnet
Wipe there again xD
sweet summit
unless you have a vod or something, i doubt it
misty charm
Wipe there again xD
:<
sweet summit
misty charm
i mean we still timed it easy but it was annoying as fuck cause i just realized when we already flew up
feral dock
Are you turning your back to stuff when you charge/intervene?
Can i avoid this somehow?
misty charm
Can i avoid this somehow?
position yourself properly before doing so
feral dock
Question is how. I feel like i just charge through the enemy. Ending up behind him. Guess this happens when mobs are running into my direction
solemn magnet
intervene a melee, not a party member on the other side of mobs
leap to the side instead of behind you or through packs
charge the closest thing, not the back mob
feral dock
K, but i dont think this is the major problem of my damage intake. I try to log a key this week and share it here
Maybe i am using too much rage on revenge instead of using it for ignore pain 🤔
flint tiger
If you have the combat text file auto running so you can record logs for raid
Then you should be able to do an upload and see the dungeon fights there to upload as well
Unless you always clear it out
solemn magnet
K, but i dont think this is the major problem of my damage intake. I try to log ...
sounds good
what dungeon were you getting chunked in? are you sure it was even physical?
feral dock
Todays dungeon was a +12 sd
solemn magnet
prolly magic damage then, or traps?
flint tiger
Do you know the specific parts of the dungeon that was rough?
sweet summit
inb4 its the swords again
flint tiger
There is a decent amount of magic damage in there
solemn magnet
swords are no joke
sweet summit
swords fuck
flint tiger
Stabbybois
solemn magnet
engore sucks if no one kicks
warm remnant
No one ever kicks
iron forum
yeah every pull with skirmishers stops for the animate weapon should be assigned
flint tiger
If you have people that won't kick, all dungeons will always suck.
solemn magnet
yeah 😦
iron forum
also are you eating the frontals on the gargoyles? those are borderline unhealable
flint tiger
Thats when you say fuck it and go prot pally to kick everything yourself.
solemn magnet
and block all the spells
flint tiger
Bop all the bleeds
solemn magnet
:swoon:
misty charm
inb4 its the swords again
which swords? 👀
iron forum
and in the gauntlet, are your melee/ you dodging the bleeeds? no healer can keep people up in the gauntlet if people are getting 3 wicked gashes every time kaal dashes
warm remnant
I called a deepsbrain out on not pressing kick whole run and they swore they did it every time... like... do they not know we can see their cooldowns XD
sweet summit
the skimishers cast "animate weapon". the weapons attack with unblockable magic damage
big ouch
feral dock
Maybe it was a dps issue. I was even in dps with 1 dd. Inspired not dying fast enough or something
iron forum
also there are some mobs in SD you just dont tank. you dont just facetank the smirmishers, and you dont just facetank the ghouls
misty charm
the skimishers cast "animate weapon". the weapons attack with unblockable magic ...
help me out, i dont play the game in english, in which part are these mobs
solemn magnet
if inspiring isn't dealt with, im not surprised you were getting chunke.d prolly eating every spell to the face
sweet summit
solemn magnet
xD
misty charm
Thanks 😄
flint tiger
Lol if your dps suck is alive forever then it makes sense to get trucked.
misty charm
the animated weapons are those swords that fly around huh? 👀
sweet summit
aye
flint tiger
I had a DOS group last week where I was #2 overall. The dps classes were 2 UH DKs and a Boomkin
misty charm
good to know 🙂
flint tiger
Made me so sad.
signal plover
Some would say all swords in this game are...animated...
signal plover
!socks
iron forum
in low keys you should be blasting as prot though also to be fair, you dont have to dump anything into ignore pain
signal plover
Wait eyir ded?
sweet summit
eyir cocks
gilded tendonBOT
signal plover
Ayyyy
misty charm
eyir socks
gilded tendonBOT
🧦
misty charm
i love eyir so much
signal plover
Been awhile
flint tiger
how do you get WCL to show the same damage that details does for M+ again?
sweet summit
eyir sucks rocks
sweet summit
you hover over the "active" thing on damage done
flint tiger
and that's just for the DPS amount right?
sweet summit
ye
flint tiger
kk
that's the log from teh group, was a DOS 15
let me know if i'm being an ass and vastly under-estimating prot warrior damage in dungeons. I haven't done a crazy amount of M+ dungeons, but thought like UH DKs and boomkins were supposed to be ungodly amounts of damage?
iron forum
let me know if i'm being an ass and vastly under-estimating prot warrior damage ...
not necessarily, boomies are actually gonna be one of the lower damaging specs if youre pulling a dungeon bog standard, safe sized pulls
they will get much higher with the righ tpulls though
and uhdk damage should be fine, but they arent giga blasters in dungeons or anything
flint tiger
well i didn't shy on pulls, did what I assume are the standard big pulls in DOS
so big pull #1 with hero, i chose to skip the second big pack to go to the enrage hulk bro cause the first pack took so long to kill i was scared I'd just get wrecked without CDs lol
iron forum
the exact numbers are about 17% lower than they would be on details because wcl counts out of combat time, but this is a pretty standard ratio of dmg for a dungeon
flint tiger
right, i'd assume that to be the norm
but i'm pulling roughly same overall damage as a boomkin and another UH DK
was terrifying lolol
speaking overall damage, not DPS btw
iron forum
yeah that 100% shouldnt be happening, i just meant dont expect every boomie an duhdk to giga blast unga bunga numbers
flint tiger
haha gotcha. but that dungeon is what made me realize sometimes, feeling like you're just squishy as hell can be due to DPS not killing shit in a timely manner
luckily i have a group i normally run with, pugged this time cause DOS trinket is still a dream i'm chasing. Got spoiled with having a fire mage and ele sham normally lol
iron forum
so big pull #1 with hero, i chose to skip the second big pack to go to the enrag...
also screw these packs with inspiring, i tried tanking my first 24 this week and just died the very first pull to those guys lmao, i got decimated
its so aids how much magic dmg they do
balmy coral
Oof, did 4.2k dps in TOP +14, was #1 overall...
flint tiger
🇫 in the chat for you my dude
realized that works for both of the recently sent messages lol
iron forum
🇫 in the chat for you my dude
1 minute and 38 seconds speed run deplete 🙂
sweet summit
impressive speedrun
flint tiger
setting records, attaboy\
iron forum
thank you thank you, if you need any advice on how to hard int a key ill be here all week
sweet summit
whats the fastest way to int a weekly no leaver with demon guildie alts
blazing condor
way ahead of ya
Man it feels like i take so much damage in keys nowdays and idk why
im gonna log my run and see
balmy coral
The boosting community is out of control..ret pally died on the second boss to the same mechanic 3 times, I ended up ninja leaving when they kept pulling the pst we were skipping
iron forum
whats the fastest way to int a weekly no leaver with demon guildie alts
get a lag switch, stay for a not suspicious amount of time like the first pull or two, turn your lag switch on and fake a disconnect
sweet summit
preach 🙏
solemn magnet
you run off the platform in dos and log
flint tiger
i'm currently trying to decide if I should craft a seismic legendary, or upgrade my ST arms legendary from 210 to 235 for the very rare occasions I get pulled into raid (am a filthy casual in my guild, that only pushes for AotC)
both cost ~3.2K soul ash, which I currently have
what's considered low enough for seismic shennanigans to plow through keys fast? I assume it'd also speed up the already super fast torghast?
balmy coral
Reprisal
solemn magnet
depends on what you consider challenging rn
flint tiger
sorry, i've already got a 235 reprisal. assumed that'd be a given
solemn magnet
i don't do lower keys to need seismic and im bad
sweet summit
id probably do a 190 seismic then dump the rest into EB once you get enough for a 235
solemn magnet
making the wall rn seems like a waste
balmy coral
I run reprisal on almost everything right now except on a few bosses if the healing isn't great I'll run the wall
solemn magnet
how do you know healing isn't going to be great going in, unless you mean in riad
balmy coral
Line slg or inerva
solemn magnet
oh okay, nvm.
heady pawn
out of curiosity how do you use reprisal on fights like council, sludgefist and slg
sweet summit
you charge a lot, and on non sludgefist fights you can intervene melee players
sludgefist is great, as you just charge after stomp and roar
heady pawn
fair point, i didnt think of that
hollow bolt
you can move ur folder, you just have 2 have ur client relocate the game
and u can point it twords ur new ssd
hallow field
trying out tanking, what is the deciding factor between running ravager and unstoppable force?
sweet summit
Tldr: ravager is good, unstoppable force is bad
Ravager gives more damage and more rage
sweet summit
In raid you play into the fray if youre not venthyr tho
hallow field
i'm not, though I dont raid much, i'll keep that in mind
sweet summit
venthyr and necrolord
sick sentinel
consumptive organ is crap right? its either that or unlocking the wrathbark mog for my vault
sick sentinel
haha thats what i was thinking
limpid star
ITF/HR build is more for high keys right
sweet summit
yeah
its for when you need giga high shield block uptime
and dont really need the shield walls
limpid star
Cool ty
sudden kayak
my horde prot warrior is so cool i got racial stamina 2 stuns shockwave and ground stomp
mighty valley
In raid you play into the fray if youre not venthyr tho
wait, what do you take as venthyr? have i been a Fool this whole time?
mighty valley
well cool
sweet summit
unless itf sims higher for you 🤔
oblique garnet
Fix ravager + signet for prot or riot 💢
mighty valley
hmm, ITF still sims better for me
sweet summit
no
but reprisal is fucked in sims
it doesnt charge weave
forcing heroic_charge doesnt give you the reprisal buff either, as the sim doesnt recognize it as charge for some reason
oblique garnet
Wonder if it could be fucked in sims because for prot it used to be intercept instead of charge
But idk
sweet summit
does it?
oblique garnet
I have no idea like i said
Dont do anything with apl xd
And i play prot so rarely these days
sweet summit
nah it uses charge
oblique garnet
Ye but because the spell wasnt charge in bfa if that could cause the issue
Thats what i meant
But doubt its that
sweet summit
As that's a "custom" ability
And you can't put "this" infront of custom abilities as it errors it out.```ye figures
timber nest
TFW when my guild asks me to take 4 stacks of the debuff from kaal on mythic 😮
carmine prawn
The level of confidence they have in you and prot warriors
timber nest
im able to do it
its just annoying at 3/4 stacks
like, healers just have to spam me
solemn current
I know there's a list of spell reflects in dungeons and raids, but it doesn't really mention what has the largest benefit. Like if there was anything to remember to spell reflect what would that be. Any suggestions on big spell reflect opportunities outside of ToP scythe and PF plaguestomp?
mighty valley
What's Ickus's terrible DoT called in plaguefall... you can reflect that too
Sync up aetherdivers in spires and reflect all their dots back at them for an easy 20k dps
Press reflect when Muezalah is at 100 energy so you don't get wrecked by Soulcrusher
turbid gazelle
The mobs that cast knockbacks in ToP, their ice spell does decent dmg if u reflect it
Not sure if the dot the other mob cast is reflectable, never done it myself, but if it is then it might be better for your healer
Since dispell is a silent killer on those platforms.
mighty valley
Oh, similarly, Shadowcore from the casters in DOS is a killer and you can bounce that
warm remnant
Reaping Scythe in ToP's last boss too iirc
mighty valley
yeah i think they got that one
warm remnant
Good good, quick reading back on like five discords so brain may have skipped a few words lol
river pasture
So hard finding decent DPS to pug anything over a 18 lately…all my groups have just been falling flat. I’m exhausted I can’t climb anymore
inland raft
It’s exhausting to pug as dps, so the good ones either found groups or stopped doing keys past 14/15
slate trail
should i get 226 weapon or 226 shield from my chest?
low kindle
Shield if you don't have a 226 yet
low kindle
definitely shield, shield makes you a lot more tankier due to the block
tame jasper
The mobs that cast knockbacks in ToP, their ice spell does decent dmg if u refle...
Which mobs do you mean? 🤔
modern brook
Which mobs do you mean? 🤔
i think hes refering to the big lich guys that shoot tornados
undone verge
so reprisal is decent for sire, as a atoc raider, so take my word with a grain of salt, but as an aotc raider, I think reprisal is definitely viable for mythic sire, although there might be another legendary thats better. I do use reprisal the most in the sire fight, multiple times in phase 1 when he casts blood price, and in phase 2 when im trying to switch between adds holding boss aggro. and in phase 3 when he casts shattering pain, so id say reprisal is the most viable for the sire , but id still look into other legendarys like the wall and see how viable they might be.
tame jasper
i think hes refering to the big lich guys that shoot tornados
Ah okay
limpid pawn
the wall doesn't feel that good in raid
idunno, i feel like I have a lot of downtime
anyone using reprisal for like everything?
hot pasture
Yer
fringe marten
hmm..the reflect on prideful boast is just a Deflect right?
Nothing shows in logs for it's damage but people say it's doing damage..? I don't see it.
tight tree
Hey, sorry if was asked before, is damage from Boast ability that Pride have (4-way red thing from players) is reflectable? I cast reflect, it does the sound, but i am not seeing it in details log, neither on friendly fire. It just nullifies that?
mossy peak
It doesn't hit the mob no
There's a lot like that
Where you deflect it rather than reflecting it
tight tree
thanks
past laurel
Hast or vers? or prot m+? 15+++
misty charm
both 🤔
jagged pier
Hast or vers? or prot m+? 15+++
stats dont matter your highest ilvl gear
is far better than caring about stats
solid cairn
i have a 213 blood scale,213 gluttonous spike. In the vault i have a 226 slimy consumptive organ and a 226 blood scale. Do i take the blood scale?
solid cairn
that's what i was thinking
lime urchin
Gratz Jakey ^^
subtle tulip
Morning gamers, is the combo of SCO and Scale recommendable? Adds a lot of beef. Instead of going Emitter and Scale.
jagged pier
SCO?
do u mean organ?
because no
organ is our second worst trinket
armour kit is the only one worse
subtle tulip
Well it was the only thing I could take that I didnt already have in vault ;')
But is it that bad lol?
jagged pier
jeez
if you have 226 shield and scale already i recommend opening in fury as you can get a wep and good trinkets alone with it and avoid getting bad trinkets that u dont need
subtle tulip
if you have 226 shield and scale already i recommend opening in fury as you can ...
I been wanting do that, but I got everything 226, except scale, wep and shield that are 220.
rip
jagged pier
F
subtle tulip
F
humble ferry
should i pick 226 chest with good stats or 226 shield with good stats? wearing 213 in both slots atm
jagged pier
shield
humble ferry
is block that important?
jagged pier
yes
subtle tulip
bis
jagged pier
in most cases u would take 3 ilvls on shield over pretty much anything
limpid pawn
so if i forgot to skip the basic campaign quest stuff
can i go back and do it? like the "i already know this stuff" part
feral dock
Noice got scale in 226 from vault :)
Do you use this on cd when doing trash? Preemptively or when you drop low?
I know that i should spare it for certain boss mechanics. E.g. reaping scythe, when i dont have spell reflect up
feral dock
Jeah with preemptive i mean charge, shieldslam, revenge, scale e.g. instead of using it when dropping to 30%
carmine prawn
Wanna ask, with shield block up, is it 100% chance to block a damage or it is a chance to block?
jagged pier
you block everything but that doesnt mean u take no damage
well u block everything if its infront of you
blocking reduces damage
feral dock
Blocking just reduce dmg by 30% or something?
carmine prawn
Yeah, block is 40% dmg reduction on blockable stuff and critical is 80% dmg reduction
jagged pier
then your armour is also factored in
fringe marten
Ponstar, look at your character description sheet..it will tell you how much damage "Block" reduces. It is based on the Block stat of your shield (why ilevel of shield is king)
jagged pier
Yeah, block is 40% dmg reduction on blockable stuff and critical is 80% dmg redu...
no i dont even think 233 shield is 40% damage reduction
carmine prawn
Oh... it says 24% now
jagged pier
its like high 30%
misty charm
then your armour is also factored in
armour is factored into block?
fringe marten
and order of operations for damage is: did the hit miss? How much armor vs target level? active mitigation Block? Absorb shield? = final damage hit.
jagged pier
armour is factored into block?
no but its factored into the damage u take
misty charm
yea but the way you said it made me think you mean its factored into block 😄
fringe marten
That's why small increase in shield..like 2/3% is a big deal..because that's AFTER your armor cuts the hit in half or more. PLUS critical blocking (based on mastery) DOUBLES your block mitigation up to a MAX of 85% reduction.
jagged pier
☝️
fringe marten
Long story short; if you critically block a melee hit..it does absolutely dick.
THat's why mastery is overlooked a lot..but is very good.
misty charm
That's why small increase in shield..like 2/3% is a big deal..because that's AFT...
does crit chance also enhance your chance to critical blocking?
jagged pier
thats why mastery is up in value thanks to reprisal
fringe marten
It scales damage quickly (due to having a different scaling than other stats) and you crit block more.
no
Crit enhances your ability to parry
jagged pier
does crit chance also enhance your chance to critical blocking?
its mastery that effects crit blocking
misty charm
is that only for other tanks or does our crit also increase our healing received?
i cant check right now 👀
fringe marten
Remember order of operations of being hit? So it's technically Do you exist? (did you disconnect/in zone) Are you in RANGE? (mob snaps to you) Did you DODGE? (3% base dodge) Did you PARRY? ..no? ok now you got hit..now factor in armor/block/absorb shield.
jagged pier
crit only effects your abilities so for other tanks yes it does effect there healing as there heals can crit
we dont heal
fringe marten
no crit does not boost your healing recieved, that's a druid thing? I think?
misty charm
no crit does not boost your healing recieved, that's a druid thing? I think?
monks have healing received on their crit iirc
fringe marten
(range thing is..mob will run to you, to get line of sight..if there's no path, it SNAPS)
You can also reverse snap 'leap' mechanics (mobs at start of mists) have 1 ranged player be the furthest target, be in a place they cannot path to (where he has to JUMP up to it) then it breaks their leaping.
But ...no one is really using snapping too much except that stupid MDI rogue BS
misty charm
didnt they do something about snapping? havent seen any snaps in SL outside of NW
fringe marten
Snapping was huge in BFA and I think they designed dungeons to avoid it.
misty charm
honestly im glad that snapping isnt huge anymore
fringe marten
cmon man you miss accidentally hitting that ramp and falling off those ledges in that BFA dungeon with the dinosaur??
...I can't be the only one who did it.
jagged pier
i just didnt snap
misty charm
or actually, not good times
fringe marten
If you got good at the snap points..that shit was clutch though.
You could snap the hallways on to desks in the haunted mansion..etc...was pretty cool.
misty charm
i just didnt snap
me neither, only place i snapped was in Shrine in front of the second boss
fringe marten
But yeah; it seems they made an active design choice to try and make dungeons NOT have that.
The first time I did mists I was trying to find a spot for a caster to stand to break their leaping.
but then..fuck it..just BLAST
misty charm
caster leaping?
fringe marten
Mobs that have a 'leap' mechanic.
It targets the 'furthest' target..if the furthest target cannot be pathed to, it breaks the leaping.
misty charm
ye but which mobs in mists do leap 🤔
fringe marten
first mobs.
misty charm
oh right lol
fringe marten
right..1 little pack..BUT they are nasty depending on the key.
misty charm
actually does the leap of those mobs deal AoE dmg?
fringe marten
(2 little packs but whatever)
misty charm
yea their dot is nasty
fringe marten
uhh..? I think it's identical to the shadow claws from the mansion in BFA
they leap..slash you with magic..
leap back
But yeah in the manor in bfa, you could have a mage stand on the edge of the big fountain in the court yard...pull the hallways out there, and the pig men couldn't 'charge' to anyone because of it.
you just have to make sure the person in the 'unpathable' position is the furthest away.
misty charm
ah i see
fringe marten
I overall prefer the dungeon design of shadowlands...mostly straight forward. some easily accomplished skips in nearly every dungeon.
but it's always just moving forward linearly basically...we won't talk about DoS
But no matter what; the fact that the final BFA season affix went away..just makes M+ worse no matter what.
The obelisks were the best thing ever.
Pylons~ whatever.
I never remember the name of the affix.
blazing condor
obelisks is right i think
fringe marten
I always called them pylons and ..I didn't even play that much starcraft LOL
blazing condor
idrk i stopped playing when 8.3 hit
jagged pier
i can wait for next season and i get the u cant back pedal power so i know cant micro manage mob poisition
blazing condor
fringe marten
Oh is the next seasonal affix announced?
jagged pier
datamined
blazing condor
just turn around and walk a nd get melted cus you dont block
jagged pier
u get random torgy powers
fringe marten
Oh..
jagged pier
theres a list on wowhead
jagged pier
fringe marten
cmon man that's ass
fringe marten
holy fuck I didn't think there would be something I'd dislike more than Prideful.
fringe marten
On paper pride sounds so cool and useful and a neat way to spice up a dungeon...in actuality as key power scales it's a huge question of risk vs reward vs time spent on TOP of forcing surgically specific dungeon routes.
fringe marten
like..having your pride moved up to the middle of a dangerous pack..instead of at the end..because someone accidentally pulled 1 or 2 dinky patrollers ?? that's stupid.
You need to pug more keys with low io players..trying to help guildies just get rando gear and shit.
fringe marten
What pride does to dungeon pathing forces constraint on what can be pulled to a degree that hurts lesser experienced players a lot..and memorizes way too specific mob pulls.
like in ataldazar "ok run along the edge we can skip this pa.." some guy pulls them
ok no prob..doesn't ruin where my pride is
Now it does...or you call a wipe ? like..no.
on lower stuff pride is fine; it's just as the key gets nastier on fort weeks...pride ends up melting people in groups that have 'not' strong healers.
blazing condor
not to mention they scale like crazy
doing a pride on a 21+ is just aids
especially before bosses because you have to dump CDs into it
fringe marten
I guess it's because after BFA season 4..where it was.."Pull everything...Engage TCLAPMODE" and then you just used the pylons to move around the dungeon how you wanted.
to this..'these mobs wreck your asshole..and..you have to be exactly precise with what's pulled so pride spawns right where you want it.."
is deflating
fringe marten
pfft..I stopped pushing the moment kiting was even a thought..because there's literally no reason to.
jagged pier
i pugged all 19s and i really have no drive to go higher tbh
fringe marten
can't upgrade my gear, can't get any better trinkets or anything...no mount, no achievement..etc. HOWEVER..now I'll be doing 20's in 9.1
Because now it matters..and that's what they should have done.
jagged pier
i will also do 20s in 9.1
misty charm
im doing around +18 right now and i only have to kite when i run out of SB, which sounds pretty normal
fringe marten
yup..'cause there's a thing..that makes you wanna do it.