protection

[plush tendon]

Divine toll is just good in pretty much every situation

so EZ to use, versatile, and short CD

[vocal bison]

that's what i don't get, as someone that actually runs with that much verse, i don't recommend it over a high haste build for M+ at all, lol

how do people that stack it and run that much think it's actually better idk

[still pagoda]

just as people preaching venthyr pala while not knowing anything about how it works and for what it is

[wanton condor]

as in for my healer

[still pagoda]

Divine Toll Shock Barrier*

[wanton condor]

my buddy who does prot pally swears by the shield bounces

[still pagoda]

if we're talking for holy

pray for crits and you'll shield entire party as a hpala

in one click

[plush tendon]

Thats a reoccurring problem with the playerbase at large. Theres so much information available that players have become smarter, but what happens is that people just copy what people on the front page are doing and copy it without understanding why its good or how to use it

[still pagoda]

smarter

more like

[wanton condor]

higher int lower wis

[still pagoda]

improperly analysing and making them look even worse

[plush tendon]

And that trickles down all the way to bottom of the totem poll where now people doing a +4 are asking for fire mage, boomie, and VDH and nothing else

I mean, players are smarter now

[still pagoda]

i just saw VDH

in a +2

[plush tendon]

or maybe more knowledgeable

[still pagoda]

who ran in and died in a second

like a typical moron

[sturdy sable]

Gotta put up demon spikes bro

[still pagoda]

keys lower than current higher key level
Dying

[deep steppe]

+3 Mists, Big Dick NF Boomie Only

[still pagoda]

[warped mulch]

I’m not sure they are any smarter, just have access to more information. If you took these people back in time to vanilla they’d have all the dps warriors spec into prot because they heard that was best

[still pagoda]

^

[plush tendon]

yea, but warriors were the best in general

XD

at DPS and tank in Vanilla

[vocal bison]

have faith in humanity, i was applying to keys as fury this week with 0 IO as dps and i just put "let me bang bruh" as the note and got accepted to multiple +15 and higher keys

[still pagoda]

[vocal bison]

as a pug

[next ridge]

Which one would you choose? Without neck I have 7% crit/16% haste / 29% mastery and 13% vers

[sturdy sable]

I bet them they won't beat me in dps

[wanton condor]

I was tanking 7s clean on a fresh 60 vdh

[sturdy sable]

Alot of ppl invite just on that challenge

[still pagoda]

i don't have any faith in pugs because i had enough experience with this bullshit

[sturdy sable]

This is why a DPS pugs now

[vocal bison]

my other go-getter note is "chad kyrian fury tryna pump"

write it down bois

[still pagoda]

same shit but in profile

you pug as DPS]

[plush tendon]

I just dont pug unless its monday night and I need a weekly key for a chest

[still pagoda]

you get shit tanks and healers

you pug as a tank

[sturdy sable]

Chad NF you mean

[still pagoda]

vice versa

[sturdy sable]

But atleast I can leave faster as a dps

[slow warren]

how much EHRPS do you guys need in keys?

my hps is pretty low but idk if it's a big deal

[strong forum]

depends on the key level and key

[lone turret]

https://prnt.sc/11j6xa2

which one guys? i wanna be thicc an tanky

[strong forum]

ilvl wins

[vocal bison]

bonus it's upgradeable

[lone turret]

i thought avoidance would push it over but yeah i looked over the fact its upgradeable

[violet marsh]

so the upper reaches is where reprisal drops but its not up this week, can i get it another way or i just have to wait?

[strong forum]

you can fish for it in twisted corridors

getting the correct wing

[violet marsh]

yikkess

[lone turret]

run layer 3 of twisting corridors and re roll until you get upper reaches

[violet marsh]

ok sounds good thank you

[lone turret]

its only 6 floors too 🙂

[violet marsh]

nice got upper on first try thanks lol

[sick sentinel]

ok... this build rocks with HR

[jagged pier]

i mean sure but you can get close to 90% effecitve uptime without it anyways

and you get to run AM and do more damage

and get Sheild wall around the same timings as if running the wall

[still pagoda]

getting declined from +5's for whatever reason

idk, are pugs seriously that unacknowledged of difficulty?

[deep steppe]

however bad you think it is, triple it, and thats approximately how bad it is

[still pagoda]

Declined from +2

[deep steppe]

i rest my case

[still pagoda]

Hal

it is not triple

T E N F O L D

[deep steppe]

I've updated my notes based on your research

[sick sentinel]

Ye sure, but with HR you dont need do fancy things to keep up SB at 80+

And also i play as NF so each pack i have Aftershock

[strong forum]

the opportunity cost is too high

[slow warren]

is comparing m+ logs a viable way of learning how to press buttons?

i feel like i dont press IP enough

[next ridge]

which one?

[slow warren]

compared to others, but i also dont feel like i NEED to press IP

[next ridge]

ilvl?

[strong forum]

yes

on equal key level, absolutely

[jagged pier]

have to be around similar times as well

[sand condor]

how do i turn of item damage

[sick sentinel]

I press only IP if i know that pack will smack me, example is first 2 packs in DoS

[sand condor]

from nw

[slow warren]

logs do that automatically

[strong forum]

like this is my healing breakdown of a boost i did

a few weeks back

hoa 15

[sand condor]

ye but

can details

[slow warren]

shouldn't IP always be above indom?

if it's not a low key

[strong forum]

no

[sick sentinel]

no

you spend rage on IP only if you have problems with HP

example i allways keep my rage 50+ and using revenge at 90 rage, to kepp that extra rage as support if something happens

[slow warren]

so having low hps is not necessarily something that needs to be improved?

[strong forum]

no

[sick sentinel]

nah

[strong forum]

HPS is an IRRELEVANT metric

[slow warren]

yeah i think i dont hold enough rage

[strong forum]

https://i.imgur.com/stI4zo5.png

this is from mists 18, 1month ago

1.5months*

[slow warren]

what's nose for trouble?

[strong forum]

vulpera racial

[slow warren]

??

[strong forum]

🙂

[slow warren]

270k healing

what the fuck

did almost as much as scale

[jagged pier]

vulpera have the best raicals

[light thicket]

[sick sentinel]

default codintion for use IP is: (rage > 50 & buff.ignore_pain.down & incoming_damage_3s > 0.20 * health.max )

[light thicket]

To compensate for being a vulpera

[strong forum]

keep in mind this was before 9.0.5

so id have "needed" less IP usage when playing reprisal

cuz of the increased block uptime

[slow warren]

differing pulls might make m+ logs hard to compare also

[jagged pier]

i dont really press ip tbh

[strong forum]

it averages out Vitt

[slow warren]

this group did 1 lvl higher and their group dps was 6.3% higher

they completed 1.5 minutes faster

[light thicket]

And also now with reprisal we press revenge that much more

[slow warren]

the prot warrior had 4% less active time

so that's probably more kiting

the dps had 3-5% less active time

so maybe they blast packs and move onwards faster

[strong forum]

what you wanna compare

is casts per second

rage wasted/gained

and hits blocked

[sick sentinel]

you can use website

[slow warren]

oh fuck

i gained 1544/1360 rage

he gained 1040/1040 rage

[strong forum]

ye so he was trash

and you wasted 200 rage

[slow warren]

no he's better

[strong forum]

no.

[slow warren]

i had 58.6cpm while he had 52.5 cpm

so i kited less

[strong forum]

yeah so you did better

[sick sentinel]

lyou can use website like: wownalzier example: https://wowanalyzer.com/report/q9wgRkApVP3XTjmc/13-Normal+Stone+Legion+Generals+-+Kill+(6:19)/Dastrolwarr/standard

[strong forum]

the more rage you gain, the better

[slow warren]

well if i was generating rage

im not kiting

most likely

[sick sentinel]

it not fully suppoort prot buyt can tell you did you waste rage etc

[strong forum]

if you have to kite as a warrior

youre playing wrong

in my mists

[slow warren]

or maybe he generated less rage because his packs died faster

[strong forum]

i had 68cpm

CPM doesnt care about packs dying faster

[slow warren]

idk i started tanking push keys yesterday

so i just assume im doing things suboptimally

compared to others

[strong forum]

dont go around assuming others are good

just because they do keys higher than you

having sub 60cpm is bad

average cpm should be around 65

[slow warren]

but if you're circle kiting a pack you don't really cast much right?

[strong forum]

you dont kite packs

[plush tendon]

what the hell is cpm

[strong forum]

casts per minute

[plush tendon]

ah

[strong forum]

the only packs you kite are VERY SPECIFIC pulls

that every tank has to kite

[slow warren]

if SB and stuff are falling off, you start circle kiting right?

not gonna be facetanking a pack when you can tc from range

[strong forum]

SB shouldnt fall off if youre playing correctly

and you still have SW + LS

[deep steppe]

is was at this moment, he realized, that he was no good at prot

[slow warren]

ls is hardly a defensive

[strong forum]

its a 30% EHP gain

[slow warren]

i treat it like a healthstone

[strong forum]

for 15seconds

[plush tendon]

I thought LS was a DPS Cd

[strong forum]

youre still 30% tankier than without

[plush tendon]

my bad

[slow warren]

what so it increases incoming heals as well?

[strong forum]

no...

but you have 30% more HP

[slow warren]

so it's like a healthstone kinda

[strong forum]

<.<

no

its not a 1time heal

you have a healer still healing you

[plush tendon]

but now you have a higher health pool

[digital escarp]

Hey guys ive been looking for a good way to get a pawn string for tanks for a while now and cant find anything. How tf are you chosing upgrades as a prot?

[strong forum]

30% ehp = effective HP

meaning how much HP needs to be chewed through before you die

[strong forum]

dont use pawn

[slow warren]

if you have 50/100 hp versus 50/130 hp how is that more EHP

once you've lost that 30 extra hp LS gave you

[jagged pier]

we dont use pawn if its got str on it and its an ilvl increase its an upgrade

[plush tendon]

super cool trick; higher I level

always (99% of the time)

[strong forum]

because you have a healer healing you back up to 130?

[slow warren]

assuming you never heal to full-30

[strong forum]

then wtf do you have a healer for

all im saying is

[slow warren]

packs hit hard

[strong forum]

yes and with LS up, youre 30% less likely to die than without

its not that hard

[slow warren]

ok so you have the potential to get 30% extra ehp if you're allowed to heal

[strong forum]

no even if

LS heals you for 30%, then you have whatever your healer is doing, and thus more leeway

[slow warren]

i forgot what i was gonna ask before talking about LS

do people use SW or LS alone?

[strong forum]

yes

i often however pair LS + SW

when im being lazy in charge weaving

or use LS for the additional rage gain

its not to be underestimated

[slow warren]

i stopped using that conduit i think

was looking at rage gained while LS was active and it seemed not great

[strong forum]

how is 42% not great

[modern brook]

its not even 43

tbh

[slow warren]

the uptime of LS without bolster isn't great

[modern brook]

if you're still running double endurance conduits, Stalwart + unnerving is the unerring correct choice

[light thicket]

Bolster extends ls uptime?

[slow warren]

and i'm still not convinced that LS is a real defensive

but that's not relevant

[modern brook]

it reduces the cd

[slow warren]

3 min cd on 42% more rage gen

[light thicket]

Ob right

[strong forum]

well not playing Unnerving Focus doesnt help making it a better defensive

[light thicket]

Dumb

[strong forum]

its arguably our best conduit next to stalwart

[slow warren]

i'll try it out

i had 8 casts of LS in a mists

[light thicket]

Playing it however makes it an interesti g offensive cd

[strong forum]

lets you execute bosses like a chad

especially with ravager up

[modern brook]

I mean lets be real

[strong forum]

or prides

[modern brook]

Unnerving does exactly more than 0

[light thicket]

And or revenge like a madman

[modern brook]

so it is our 2nd best endurance conduit

[strong forum]

or any big pull

you just ravager + ls + revenge spam away

and be immortal through indom + block

idk how thats not great

[slow warren]

it's more damage i suppose

i'll have to try it out

[modern brook]

P sure u can also meme in keys as Necrolord by LS->Rally->flesh craft

and keep the omega shield with LS / Rally cds reset

[dapper coral]

Has anyone tested the Venthyr specific lego on the PTR? I assume with Bolster, you'd maintain Shield Block provided you keep extending Last Stand through Condemn

[slow warren]

jfc this other guy has 1082 vers

[strong forum]

doesnt extend bolster

[strong forum]

good for him

stats are irrelevant

[dapper coral]

so, even if you add 4 sec of LS through Condemn, it doesn't extend SB?

[strong forum]

yes

[slow warren]

that haste difference probably accounts for some CPM difference

[strong forum]

it does not work

[dapper coral]

Dumb. Change the wording of Bolster then

[slow warren]

the vers may also account for some HPS difference

[strong forum]

HPS comes from taking dmg

the more dmg you take

[blazing condor]

just realized ive neglected my soulbind levels. How to upgrade the dungeon ones? like, do i gotta run normal m0 for a better rank or can i get in m+

[strong forum]

the more you can heal

through indom and ip

if you take less dmg, IP will absorb less dmg per second

the more rage you gain, the more hps you will produce aswell

[slow warren]

so i double fucked up then

i gained more rage, took more damage

cast more spells

but still had lower hps

[strong forum]

but again, its an irrelevant metric, just like stats, the only thing that other dude is doing is inting by having way less haste

what are you even looking at

which levels

what kind of hps

what kind of dps

which key

[slow warren]

ill just link the logs so it's easier to reference

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/3jFRfTMkrzAXg7CG/#fight=last&type=damage-done

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/MbKHTZacqtCgrm49#fight=10&type=damage-done&source=2

im a dps main who got conscripted into tanking yesterday

[strong forum]

well for one youre not charge weaving remotely as much as the other dude

im assuming youre Draek

[slow warren]

no

vitt

arms main

charge weaving is my life

[strong forum]

yeah but... hol up

so neither of this is you then?

[slow warren]

kvittania

i need a name change

[strong forum]

you played massively better than the other dude?

why are you even comparing yourself to him

hes TRASH

[slow warren]

he tanked a key higher in 1.5min less

[strong forum]

so?

thats a group effort

he barely had block uptime

[slow warren]

and i started yesterday so idk

[strong forum]

he played much much worse

he only has 55% blocked

that is trash

you had 75% which is fine

not amazing but fine

[light thicket]

Arent the dps the ones that manage how much a dungeon lasts?

Like you can be trash but if your dps are doing 7k in all pack

Surely youll go faster

[strong forum]

you played 10x better than that guy, doing a key faster than the other has nothing to do with any of that

M+ is 99% group effort

[slow warren]

i looked at another log where the guy did 500k more IP healing as well

[strong forum]

so he spammed IP

[slow warren]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/r8YxyRvKkntp2QgX#fight=4&type=healing&source=1

[strong forum]

instead of doing actual dmg

[karmic plinth]

IP healing is not a metric you want to measure yourself against

[strong forum]

IP is a defensive rage dump and dmg smoother

not smth you want 100% uptime on and maximise your HPS

thats just stupid

[karmic plinth]

most important thing is blocked hits

[slow warren]

can you sort melee hits by % blocked hits?

idk if im blocking the right things

[strong forum]

just hover over melee

[karmic plinth]

mouseover melee

[strong forum]

thats the important metric to look at

[slow warren]

yea but who cares if you blocked 99% of some pinprick

[strong forum]

???

[slow warren]

but blocked 60% of something important

[strong forum]

there are only so many blockable "mechanics"

you get hit like 3 times in a dungeon by a blockable mechanic

thats fairly easy to figure out

[slow warren]

yea

[strong forum]

if you blocked it or not

[slow warren]

i wanna see which mobs or things i blocked less

to find a reason for that

or to see if i should've improved in that

[strong forum]

melee dmg is 50-80% of the dmg you will take in a dungeon

[slow warren]

like this fat dude

pain in the ass to charge weave on

[strong forum]

yeah but he also doesnt hit very hard

or often

[slow warren]

so that's pretty okay then

[strong forum]

70% on a normal boss is pretty average ye

or well, good

[woven galleon]

hi! was looking through my logs and realised that my SB uptime seems to average at 50% with reprisal during an entire M+ run, any tips to help improve on getting more SB uptime?

[strong forum]

cant get much higher without charge weaving like a motherfucker

[woven galleon]

guess it explains how i havent managed to time much 15s sighs

[strong forum]

actively charging more, intervening on CD, dont sit on SB charges

[slow warren]

is the mitigated column a decent indicator of what you might consider mitigating more?

[strong forum]

tracking all of that basically

[strong forum]

no it counts IP up = mitigated

so that doesnt really help

when IP itself isnt really mitigation

[slow warren]

is that even if IP mitigated 1 dmg?

[strong forum]

ye

[slow warren]

surely not

so if you IP 1dmg out of 100 dmg hit

[woven galleon]

thanks my man! apparently i gotta make it a habit to charge around more haha thanks for the tip!

[slow warren]

that's a 50% mitigation?

[strong forum]

it counts said "hit" as mitigated

[woven galleon]

i usually just front load all my SB charges on first pull

[slow warren]

if you took 100 and IP absorbed 1, that would be 1% mitigated

[woven galleon]

i think im lacking on charging around like a true man

[slow warren]

OH so mitigated means 'any non zero mitigation' rather than 'percent of original damage taken'?

[strong forum]

thats how i understood it

i could be wrong on that

[slow warren]

no way i dont believe it

[woven galleon]

should i actively be using leaps to charge? or intervening a ranged and then charging back in?

[strong forum]

if you have to, yes

first priority is not letting SB drop off when taking blockable dmg

[slow warren]

so it's just a count of mitigated hits #/total hits

rather than damage taken/prereduction damage

[strong forum]

yeah thats defo too advanced to take into account "how much %dmg you reduced" overall

[slow warren]

but wcl records DR right

like how the VDH bug was discovered

the U/M hits

[strong forum]

that was through timeline

and calculating on your own end

how much it should be

and how much it actually was

[woven galleon]

got it! seems like im just frontloading SB and revenge spamming with avatar most of the time, gotta make it a conscious effort to be charging around gloriously

[strong forum]

ideally you want intervene, charge and 1 SB charge always on CD

for maximum block uptime

[slow warren]

like this unmitigated/mitigated

[woven galleon]

gotcha!

[strong forum]

yes

[slow warren]

yeah the 36.61% is the percentage reduction, not #hits/total hits

[strong forum]

but the dmg taken mitigated% doesnt show how much of every hit on average you mitigated, thats 100% not how it works

in the dmg taken tab

in the events, sure there it works

[slow warren]

well 3.1/8.6 is 36%

so if wcl records the unmitigated as 8.6 and the damage taken was 8.6-3.1

and it deduced the mitigation was 3.1

then the mit % is 36 as seen in that pic

[strong forum]

yes in the timeline it says that for every individual attack, but im talking bout the column in the tables tab

[slow warren]

yeah that i have no clue

[strong forum]

ah so we were talking 2 different things

mb

[slow warren]

what

wait what were you talking about

yeah i was talking about that column

[strong forum]

now that i think about it

[slow warren]

i looked at some of the #hits

the %mit isn't an integer of the #hits

eg hits 3 mit 19.42%

i just assumed that meant you reduced the total dmg of those 3 hits by 19.42%

[strong forum]

no

[slow warren]

rather than you had any non-0 mit for 19.42% of those 3 hits

[strong forum]

thats what i meant ye

i think

[slow warren]

so the latter is correct?

[strong forum]

yea i think

it counts IP up = mitigated
SB up = mitigated

[slow warren]

but how do you mitigate 19.42% of 3 hits

that wouldn't be an integer

[strong forum]

i mean how the fuck does this happen

77% mitigated

but blocked 100%

ykno

weird metric

[slow warren]

which skill was that?

[signal plover]

Isnt that the cap of blocked dmg

[strong forum]

a melee attack

[slow warren]

you could get 77% reduction with block and IP

or block and SW and all the passive DRs added up

[strong forum]

yeah i think its % of hit mitigated

cuz check this

i didnt block this hit

[slow warren]

yeah

[strong forum]

59% mitigated

[slow warren]

59% mit from armor and vers

[strong forum]

and IP

[slow warren]

sounds about right

[strong forum]

had IP up for that hit

[slow warren]

phew i thought i was crazy

[signal plover]

It's just the % of how much you reduced the initial number by yeh?

[slow warren]

isn't armor like 57%?

[strong forum]

havent looked at the % in m+

cuz k value exists

[slow warren]

roughly

[strong forum]

but i had IP up for that hit

since it absorbed X amount

[slow warren]

a naked melee should be reduced by 60% ish if it includes armor

i think it doesn't count IP as mitigation

absorbs are healing

[modern brook]

ip is an absorb yeah

[strong forum]

well.. it clearly states that it was absorbed.

[slow warren]

yeah but that's not mitigation

i think it's more likely that 59.2% is whatever your passive mit from armor

[strong forum]

wha

[slow warren]

and the IP healing goes to the healing table

rather than acting like a 50% dr

[strong forum]

if it didnt count

why is it displayed in the log then

that roughly 15% of all attacks were absorbed

[slow warren]

as an absorb

[strong forum]

when it doesnt count as mitigation

doesnt really make sense

ah

[toxic prairie]

like someone told me about mythics though, your shield block can fall off (becomes harder to keep up) when your group dps is poo

[strong forum]

now i know what absorbed it

my vulpera racial

not IP

[strong forum]

absolutely

if your dps players suck, you will have a hard time as a tank

[slow warren]

fully unabsorbed hit but still "19.42% mitigated"

and it's a single hit

[strong forum]

has to be vers / vanguard then

[slow warren]

so there's no way it's anything like #mitigated hits/#total hits

yeah

[strong forum]

ye we already clarified that

[slow warren]

i was confusing myself

[strong forum]

now im curious

if vulpera racial works against volcanic

[slow warren]

that racial sounds crazy

reverse first strike

[strong forum]

its pretty fucking good ye

also gives you a 40yard pull

that can healcrit for like 20k

🙂

[slow warren]

explain

[slow warren]

st?

[strong forum]

with buffs up and stuff

this can safe your healer

or w/e

[slow warren]

i have a bit of trouble pulling things from range

[strong forum]

and you can pull packs from farther away

its insane QoL

pulling packs from 40 yards instead of 25

[slow warren]

is hthrow 25?

[strong forum]

ah 30

[slow warren]

thought it was 30

[strong forum]

nvm

havent looked at the tooltip in ages

[slow warren]

and taunt is 30

[strong forum]

ravager is also 40

which is nice

[slow warren]

yea was gonna ask

but muh damage

[strong forum]

?

[wet osprey]

is there a intervene macro u guys use?

[slow warren]

half the time my rav doesn't follow

[strong forum]

it has to be really close

and you dont just wanna leash a pack

usually i throw ravager in before charge, cuz it takes 1 global to deal dmg

[slow warren]

i feel so bad using ravager to pull

dps brain screaming

[strong forum]

#showtooltip Charge
/cast Intervene [target=mouseover,help,exists]Intervene; Intervene
/cast Charge [target=target,harm,exists]Charge; Charge
/cast Hamstring

[jagged pier]

throw rav before charge is bis strat

[strong forum]

you dont lose any dmg if you charge in

[slow warren]

i mean pulling multi packs

[strong forum]

unless you throw it into a dumb spot

[slow warren]

so that i get aggro of 1 far pack

[strong forum]

well you have bag of tricks for that

[slow warren]

does it work on aoe?

[strong forum]

no

[slow warren]

yeah you can't just sigil far, leap main, leap again, throw glaive

[strong forum]

yeah but VDH also has to kite

[slow warren]

and have aggro on nearly all of it

[strong forum]

almost every pack

[wet osprey]

that macro pretty much intervenes and charges right?

[strong forum]

it makes it so its just 1 button

instead of 2

[slow warren]

it's hard learning tanking when all the resources are VDH oriented

[strong forum]

🤷‍♂️

[slow warren]

fear sigil >> int shout

[strong forum]

TC first pack -> heroic leap into 2nd pack -> charge back

[slow warren]

what about the third pack

[lofty widget]

use heroic throw?

[strong forum]

there are so very few triple pack pulls

[wet osprey]

ty for macro

[strong forum]

im sure you can figure it out

[slow warren]

i tried to fear the start of SD

one of the mobs fucking ran away

while i was pulling

ended up bop pulling

with sap on the skrimisher

and pray to god the other 2 skirmishers dont cast

[lofty widget]

shockwave on their animate weapon cast

cancels the hard part of that pull

[strong forum]

hes talking before fighting it

[slow warren]

do i just sit in bop while everyone afks

[strong forum]

pulling entire corridor

into lantern

[slow warren]

wait for animate cast

then sw that

[strong forum]

if you have BoP you dont have aggro

[slow warren]

then challenging shout on far of lantern

yeah but no one else has aggro

[strong forum]

unless youre the only person in combat

[slow warren]

because they're afk

[strong forum]

animate cast doesnt re-cast for a while if you stun the cast

[slow warren]

bop>soulshape past first sapped pack>charge to second>hthrow third

[strong forum]

so thats rogue / your duty

[slow warren]

yea rogue sits on the first one

[strong forum]

then once 2 packs are in you can ravager since it only hits 8 targets

[slow warren]

had mage db the other 2 but it's soooo sketchy

[lofty widget]

i mean you can throw the third pack and never have to leave shockwave range of the two skirmishers

[slow warren]

i think i sit in bop and sw the animate

then everyone joins in combat

wish i recorded it

[strong forum]

you can also reflect

[slow warren]

was so scared of dying

[strong forum]

the animate weapons

[slow warren]

it spawns 2

[lofty widget]

only 1 hit tho

[strong forum]

yes but still a good to know thing

[lofty widget]

very true

[slow warren]

yeah ik but it's nowhere near good enough

[strong forum]

obv

[slow warren]

i think it 100% needs to be prevented

if you're gonna sit in lamp

[strong forum]

you can abuse a toy

[slow warren]

im also dying so hard while standing

[strong forum]

to get the stacks

[slow warren]

yeah probs should've done that

[strong forum]

theres a toy that spawns 5 spiders, when they die you get the stacks

[slow warren]

we binned two 22s practising those pulls

[strong forum]

i mean SD22 isnt a cake walk

its the hardest dungeon

[slow warren]

ended up double pulling the first packs instead

[strong forum]

double pull is much better if you cant pull of the quad pull

[slow warren]

it's a triple isn't it?

[strong forum]

some people pull 4

[lofty widget]

quad with the slam dude

isnt bear the only tank who lives that?

[slow warren]

yikes

[strong forum]

no clue

[slow warren]

oh the incarn spam

[strong forum]

i dont care enough about keys anymore

[lofty widget]

saw tomo do that pull once just chilling at 100 % lol

[slow warren]

prepull incarn is nuts

[strong forum]

having uncapped aoe is nuts.

but thats only allowed for other tanks

[slow warren]

is thrash uncapped?

[strong forum]

yup

[slow warren]

is immo/soulcleave uncapped?

and sigil

[strong forum]

immo is uncapped, and spirit bomb

ED is softcapped to 5

[slow warren]

do they run spb?

[strong forum]

no but they have the option

[slow warren]

dont you just die if you run spb

[strong forum]

no it can be played until like 22s, since you have to kite like a mongo anyway as DH

[wet osprey]

do u guys sim at all or just go haste/vers

[strong forum]

i just go haste

rest is w/e i feel like

[lofty widget]

can sim for dps in raid i guess

[slow warren]

wish tanks had some more threat on the capped skills

feels shit seeing mobs run through ravg

[strong forum]

wish tanks were tanks

[slow warren]

and a dps pulls threat

[lofty widget]

warrior is kinda close now tbh

[strong forum]

target cap ruined m+

[lofty widget]

threat multiplier on TC when?

[strong forum]

ye warri is real close to being a proper tank

[slow warren]

or your TC deals 50 damage to the 12th mob in the pack

and someone pulls threat of it

[strong forum]

its just dogshit

remove it

lemme do big damage again and have fun

[slow warren]

this was pretty fun

[strong forum]

remove the ultra punishing magic tank busters in m+

also remove pride

its actually such a shit affix compared to reaping

reaping made your pull more fun and you could pull it into bosses

[slow warren]

didn't play bfa but pride is kinda cool

[strong forum]

Pride? GL if you have it at the wrong moment you are fucked and wipe

[slow warren]

big damage buff

[strong forum]

or the key is over even

[slow warren]

but having it at the right moment is poggers

[lofty widget]

dislike that your keys HAVE to be plauyed around it

[strong forum]

if your pride timing isnt on point

[lofty widget]

1 mispull is GG

[strong forum]

the key is bricked

[slow warren]

we missed a bat in that 22 sd

it just never came

so we continued and it almost fucked our pride timing

[lofty widget]

probably knew what was coming

[slow warren]

100% the reason we bricked it

[lofty widget]

the bat

[slow warren]

and not the pulling of patrols and stoneguard in the ring

or feeding the gauntlet lul

[strong forum]

reaping in WCM was peak fun

[lofty widget]

are you pulling stoneguard+pack consistently?

[slow warren]

it's good if planned

but im scared of stoneguard plus pack

because it means i have to concentrate on dodging the bleed

[lofty widget]

we've been playing stoneguards solo but it sinks tooo much tiime

i feel the same

[slow warren]

what i do is

[lofty widget]

but a stoneguard alone is also like 0 dmg

[slow warren]

aim the bleed fucking anywhere

and if people die

i dont care

[strong forum]

https://youtu.be/V0NK1rnt1_k?t=617

@slow warren

[slow warren]

and if the rest of the mechanics of the pack go off

[strong forum]

this is what a good affix looks like

[slow warren]

not my problem

ohhhhhh yeah

lemme hit 5 of those 30 mobs

[sturdy sable]

Man reaping was the last time I enjoyed keys

[strong forum]

^

it was so good

[sturdy sable]

Played a ret pally and a prot warrior

[strong forum]

60+ mob pulls

[lofty widget]

s4 was kinda fun before the whole vers meme

[sturdy sable]

Saving wings for reaping was so much fun

Or you know the clap spam

[slow warren]

wasn't there a prot pally talent that gave you 3% dmg and dr diminishing per mob around you?

[sturdy sable]

Yeah

[slow warren]

that on a 60 pull

[strong forum]

it capped at 50%

[grand drum]

being top dps as tank because of reaping was the most fun i had in m+

[strong forum]

and you very often reached it in BFA m+

[sturdy sable]

Yeah it was very rewarding to play tank well during that season

[strong forum]

i mean

TD also worked

outcombusting the mage

cuz you delete it before he can touch anything

[sturdy sable]

Yeah but TD wasn't good play it felt pretty cheap after the first few times

[strong forum]

not rly

[sturdy sable]

I mean that's my opinion lol

[strong forum]

https://youtu.be/9etclF-L0Ds?t=705

[wanton condor]

I both like and dislike pride, in so much that I really do enjoy the route planning portion

and how it interacts there

[strong forum]

this pull

so much fun

[wanton condor]

but dislike how much it punishes a wipe

[grand drum]

pride is such a shit version of reaping. one extra mob/buttpull and your entire run is fucked. can't pull into bosses. is a threat to the entire group instead of just the tank

[strong forum]

just ruin your mages combust

and take away the pull

very fun

[grand drum]

just give reaping back and remove target cap. Use bwonsamdi being relevant this expansion as an excuse

[wanton condor]

I think prideful would be less punishing if they turned off proxy aggro

[sturdy sable]

Reaping but the waves help you kill shit instead

[unique shale]

HoA has tight time or i have make bigger pulls ?

[slow warren]

nah think people will hate having NPCs kill shit for you

[wanton condor]

target cap is kind of a fake problem, hunter has been top tier with a cap, same with outlaw, it's just that fire is hilariously overtuned for m+

[slow warren]

plague boras, final boss in dos

outlaw utility is why they're brought

and hunters aren't top tier in high keys

[wanton condor]

after they got nerfed

[weak dune]

ya hoa timer gets really tight on higher keys, you have to pull big every pack

[wanton condor]

but like you don't see enh and they're largely uncapped

[slow warren]

yeah it's tuning x target cap

still feels shit for the target capped classes

[strong forum]

ele is largely uncapped

and look at them now

[slow warren]

is eq uncapped?

[wanton condor]

ele got dem buffs

and is now amazing

but still kind of hard to pull over a boomie just due to utility

honestly they were always strong, just got ridiculous

[strong forum]

thats why you just dont bring it over boomy, but over mage

[slow warren]

trees are absolutely insane

[strong forum]

or just bring all 3

[slow warren]

if any devs tanked with trees holy shit

[wanton condor]

fire still busts it out over ele and has been survivability

[slow warren]

they'd realise how broken it is

[strong forum]

Trees wont be broken next patch

cuz boomie will be shit

[wanton condor]

outlaw you want for the utility, and you want trees. Ele is an absolutely amazing m+ pick, but I can see why they aren't the top 3

[unique shale]

but my problem is the casters cause nobody bother to kick or stun them

[strong forum]

as he said, higher keys

you dont bigpull with too many casters

[wanton condor]

(I main ele)

[unique shale]

18 not high enough?

[slow warren]

silence sigil kekw

[wanton condor]

also has the flame patch problem but even more

[strong forum]

no

[wanton condor]

where you really don't want the mobs moving

[strong forum]

18s are lowish keys now

[unique shale]

[strong forum]

for 18s you dont need to make big dick pulls, you can go pack by pack and be absolutely fine unless your dps are braindamaged

[wanton condor]

hoa I think you still need to, but that's hoa

rest yeah, you can play it safe

[strong forum]

you can do your relaxed double pulls

and be fine

[slow warren]

tbh going pack by pack would've served us better in 21s also

[wanton condor]

like I did a 17 mists last night with only one double pull and we would have 2 chested if the hunter didn't tab target the flying pat at the end

[slow warren]

imagine teaching a new tank high end key pulls

monkagiga

[strong forum]

well in alot of dungeons you barely have a choice to pull back by pack

[weak dune]

if you're talking about the shard pulls, imo it's always a good idea to have pride going into it

[unique shale]

idk my pulling was bad or the fact that we were on big add too long that open first boss

[weak dune]

and you need to make sure your dps have cds

[wanton condor]

I think my "not huge" pulls are maybe 9 discounting prides in HoA before first boss?

[weak dune]

if you do like... right shard into left shard it's really tough unless you have some insane dps

[slow warren]

not huge 9 pull?

or do you mean 9 separate pulls

[wanton condor]

big lust pull -> pull that triggers pride -> shard
pull that triggers pride -> shard
big pull -> small pull that triggers pride -> shard
pull in front of boss -> boss

[unique shale]

is it ture that if you not skip to the second boss in hoa you won’t time it cause i heard it a lot

[wanton condor]

a "big pull" being 3+ packs

[weak dune]

the pulls up there are just not very efficient compared to all the stuff you can pull together in the 1st area

[slow warren]

hoa is basically a dps check

[wanton condor]

yeah, I like to invis the whole stairs area, then grab a single slasher to trigger pride

[weak dune]

the evis or slashers are all beefy bois and you'd probably only have 1-3 of them in a pack

[wanton condor]

not sure if that's more or less efficient than pride before the stairs and just losing 20s though

[strong forum]

most common strat is getting 79% at first boss

invis to 2nd boss

trigger pride -> 2nd boss

and then youre gucci, proceed as normal through the rest

[wanton condor]

basically

I know some folks instead pull the two packs at the base of the stairs post first boss, invis to boss and just give up 20s of pride

not a huge fan imo

[unique shale]

last night i was short by 30sec to time hoa 18

[slow warren]

you do that if you're 2.6% off pride

because the big bats are 2.56%

and you dont want to bother with 2 of them

[weak dune]

hoa is so punishing to tanks if your dps are low

[slow warren]

this is one where you shroud

because getting bat for pride and wasting some pride time is better than killing the 2 huge bats

1.3m hp each

[wanton condor]

I just do 1 bat

but it can waste time if the stone rotations don't go your way

[slow warren]

yea mb most people do 1 bat

but it has too much hp

with pride afterwards

[wanton condor]

right, hence why I'm considering basically doing the route you put up, although how you dodge the pack in from of the first boss?

[slow warren]

just pull boss to side

go from orange to yellow

[wanton condor]

"have faith the dps won't asspull" basically

[slow warren]

line all the black shit towards the pack

[wanton condor]

I guess you keep the circle far away and it's tough for them to do so

[slow warren]

yea if they move out of circle it's already gg

there's a bat for every pride too

which is huge

[wanton condor]

next season affix: circle around tank, if dps move out they have their account deleted

prevent buttpulls 90% of the time

[strong forum]

next season affix: tanks take 30% less dmg

9.2 season affix: tanks take 30% less dmg and aoe caps are removed

9.3: all of the above and covenants are now freely swappable aswell as conduits

[shut summit]

🚫

[strong forum]

was worth a shot

[grand drum]

according to the bfa pattern of affixes, this next season's should be good

[sturdy sable]

Lol

Beguiling was...... Okayish

[still pagoda]

Reaping tho...

[deep steppe]

Tank charges into group -> party uninstalls

[remote tusk]

Entities within 10 yards of each other deal increased damage for each entity, up to a maximum of 100%. (:

[languid flower]

so... CC all the things, kill them one at a time? got it.

[strong forum]

you mean uninstalling

[wanton condor]

they should have been nicer to the tank then

[sick sentinel]

Was that always there?

[strong forum]

been added with 9.0.5 i believe

[sick sentinel]

well hopefully the rep wasn't for nothing come 9.1

[strong forum]

[sweet summit]

[still pagoda]

[proper crest]

How about new players, there's no way this rep will be mandatory for 9.1

[torpid fiber]

which horde race has the least annoying shout? cause the mag'har orc shout is starting to drive me a little bonkers

[red tree]

undead

[sick sentinel]

oh your character yells when you shout? never knew that

lol yaaa haaa

are the benefits to playing with sound?

I used too but when I came back I never put it on for some reason

[strong forum]

In raiding boss mechanics are very often paired with a voiceline of the boss

So that's an additional indicator for you, but not necessary

[sick sentinel]

well I do have sounds on my weakauras

but just general in-game sound do you miss something?

I almost feel like its a benefit too only have them on weakauras/timers

like sound means something always

[sick sentinel]

What if the rep is still meaningful? You do unlock new quests that progress Venari's story. So maybe you already have sockets unlocked in 9.1 you just need the new currency? I think the beast warrens and perditions hold are unlocked automatically in 9.1 so maybe that allows new players to progress venaris story up to 9.1 without having to get the rep?

[last mason]

What determines who gets the bleed on the sd gauntlet

[floral pewter]

I know nothing about Disc; is Atonement supposed to be only like 10% of their total healing (in a dungeon)?

[inland raft]

The awkward moment when your boomie gets kicked out of his housr mid key

On discord

[floral pewter]

oh jeez, is he okay?

[inland raft]

Looks like he moving in with his sister but no boomie for a while

Unfortunate going into push week weekend

[modest thistle]

Bro that’s actually fucked

It’s push week ffs. Some people don’t get it man

[wet osprey]

is the lego going to change at 9.1?

[floral pewter]

last I heard, the Kyrian leggo isn't even on the PTR yet, much less any warrior legendary tuning

so, who knows

[lavish oracle]

I can't imagine the kyrian leggo would be more powerful than reprisal for keys

[grand sequoia]

How does NF feel compared to Venthyr as prot?

[hot oxide]

jesus, i don't understand why 1st boss in plaguefall is such a task for groups.

[jade swallow]

nf/seismic reverb/ravager mists +15

[grand sequoia]

Fuckin hell, thats nutty.

[fluid wraith]

is there a thing as too much haste? sitting at just under 30% rn

[brittle owl]

nop

[digital arch]

almost there! I want top 20

what is the best legendary for raid?

[carmine carbon]

The Wall

[plush tendon]

The Wall or reprisal if you can proc it frequently enough without killing someone or moving the boss

[rustic mantle]

I was going through the Reflection guide and it has a column for "Blockable" and in the Kin-Tara row (1st boss SOA) it says "Overhead Smash - aim to block as many as possible"
Does this mean to use Spell Reflection on this?

[shut summit]

shield block

[rustic mantle]

Gotcha, thank you

[fluid wraith]

any tips for tanking deathwalkers in ZG on dos? i just run away all the time cuz bleeds hurt

[obtuse marsh]

@fluid wraith can reflect bleed, stun an kite a bit, kyrian pot if you are kyrian

[zealous spear]

So Reprisal is the best overall prot lego?

[sweet summit]

for m+ yeah

[surreal sinew]

did they fix pulling through walls on mists with a pet?

[jagged pier]

can still pull with treents or could yesterday

[surreal sinew]

hum might just have been the hunter then

ty

[jagged pier]

well druid and mage and still pull by jumping as well

but its harder

[orchid frigate]

ugh so i tried to utilize the strategy with pulling the two packs in the back first before last boss in PF

and everyone else died to the water when getting behind first pack 😦

[sweet summit]

i warned you

[orchid frigate]

i know

[lime urchin]

Can a shaman solo interrupt the shadowcore casts in 2nd pack in DoS?

[unique shale]

top 20 in dead realm

[tame jasper]

One question: Atm I wear 226 Stitchflesh ring (138 haste and 77 versa) and 213 Ritualist Treasure Ring (150 haste, 44 crit). As this ring is the only slot (aside from 213 alar 2nd life) I can upgrade with valor points, which 220 ring do you suggest?

[lofty widget]

any ring with high haste, the treasure ring is really good to upgrade actually

ah wait, thats a raid ring

[tame jasper]

yep it is

[lofty widget]

the DoS ring has high aste as well

thats probably what i would go with

[tame jasper]

I would have Bloodoath ring with crit (low) and haste (high)

[lofty widget]

if you can get it, the best ring would probably be denathrius ring. has the highest haste of any ring at that ilvl

[tame jasper]

my guild quit raiding several weeks ago (and sucked at it anyway with only about 7 ppl and 10-12 "I have no clue what I have to do at this but, I just stand here and press my heal button"

I think I go with the Bloodoath but I don't think I'll reach the 150 haste on it

[timber nest]

hmmm what are people using for chest enchant? im using skirmish right now but i dont know if its worth losing 10 stats for only 15k damage over a fight

[shrewd elm]

here is a odd one, what tank has the highest HP and what tank has the lowest HP?

[timber nest]

monk i think has the lowest and Dh has the highest i think

[sick sentinel]

So I just got KSM as a prot war. Just wondering when do your Rio score starts turning orange in-game?

[lofty widget]

around 3k score?

[amber herald]

dh has highest really?

I thought it would be bear

[timber nest]

DH has like 70k with current gear

i havnt seen a super geared bear

[jagged pier]

pretty sure its more bear usually have the most hp

because bear

[timber nest]

how do i see how much damage as ability does in a log?

not a log

a sim

sory

[amber herald]

my 220 bear has 64k hp

[jagged pier]

u just expand the sim no?

[lyric relic]

Do you guys have a rule of thumb on how much ilvl it's worth sacrificing for stats? (like vers?) In particular, trying to figure out if the trade off on 226 non-vers pieces is fine to swap out for a 220 Haste/Vers

I'm unsure how much the stam/armor of a 226 calculates vs the vers gain of a 220 in terms of damage reduc

[strong forum]

Basically any ilvl upgrade already out values stats

6ilvl, no question asked

3ilvl maybe depending on stats

Vers is NOT something you sacrifice ilvl for

[lyric relic]

I figured as much for damage, but thought it may be worth a consideration for progging and very high keys

[strong forum]

The only case you sac 3-6 ilvl is on cloak or wrists for bis stats vs dogshit stats

[lyric relic]

ahhh okay -- yeah that makes sense

[strong forum]

This is for defensive, Gremio

Not for dmg

[lyric relic]

ah, okay

[strong forum]

If nerf can do 24 and 25s with 9-17% vers

I'm certain you can do 20+ without 30% vers

[lyric relic]

no, yeah, absolutely. just wasn't sure what the rule of thumb was

[strong forum]

Rule of thumb is ilvl > haste >>> vers/crit/mastery

[lyric relic]

i see

thank you for the insight!

from a glance, it seemed like gaining 100 vers and sacrificing 6 ilvl was a close metric -- and i wasn't sure if gaining the 1% damage reduction equaled the stats from the 6 ilvl

makes sense 🙂 ty ty

[solid cairn]

Does someone have a good DOS route?

[jagged pier]

theres like 1 DoS route tbh

[woeful trellis]

Hey guys, has anyone a good video for 9.1.

[jagged pier]

probably a bit ealier for that plus atm nothing has changed playstyle wise we just got more soulbind stuff

and the new leggos that atm seem a bit meh

well the NF one looks pretty good for pumping i suppose

[lusty furnace]

any advice on which to upg. Haste is juicy but Vers saves me from Wicked Bolts in HoA lol

[strong forum]

haste

taking 150 less damage from a 15k magic bolt isnt gonna save your ass

[plush tendon]

Yea, sounds like yall just need to interrupt those wicked bolts better

[lusty furnace]

fair enough I guess, just got clapped real hard in a 19 HoA due to dpses not kicking ^^

[plush tendon]

150 damage reduced by vers, or 15k reduced by a click of a button

[fringe cobalt]

The second one isn't upgradeable but maybe you have another one

[lusty furnace]

ah yeah I do have a second

I thought lol, guess the haste piece is getting upgraded then

194 Hymnal doing 4.5% of my dmg in that HoA is pretty nuts, what a broken trinket

[still pagoda]

sometimes i don't understand logic of pugs

they see a 171 healer in a such a mere key as +8 and leave immediately

like

it's a +8

easy as fuck

come and grab

[sleek echo]

Does anyone have any info on how the new covenant specific legendaries will effect what we like as prot? or is it too early to tell?

[still pagoda]

too early to tell

[sleek echo]

cos i was tempted to switch to necro, and the leggo for necro looks pretty juicy

any necro shills around to convince me? XD

[sweet summit]

just

wait

til 9.1

or go now

u can easily swap back if u dont like it

[plush tendon]

Nows not the time unless you want to try current banner or level up Covs.

[still pagoda]

it's like only 1 week to renown 40 if you have easy access to at least heroic reclears without pugging afaik

[plush tendon]

Or you just herioc dungeon grind XD

[still pagoda]

i skipped heroics on my paly rn and already renown 20

despite not touching campaign at all

[plush tendon]

good lad

[still pagoda]

so i still have around 7-8 renown banked for the end of the week

otherwise i'm just spamming M+ rn

[plush tendon]

Renown EZ as long as you are playing the game

[still pagoda]

yeah

pretty much

[plush tendon]

If you just log on for a dungeon then get off, then not so much

[blazing condor]

playing the game

[still pagoda]

yes

time to meme on pugs

[crimson furnace]

who is watching andty right now??

and hes thoughts on the spec he is palying

as prot warr