so cc's and intuprts are not realiable to do that
#protection
jagged pier
arctic whale
I set arms lootspec to avoid looting it
jagged pier
i honestly would just vendor it if i got it
elfin nova
cyan shore
Where's the best place to get MDT routes now?
sweet summit
Raider.io/streamers/make ur own
cyan shore
Raider? O.o
sweet summit
?
cyan shore
I didn't know they had MDT routes
plush saffron
sweet summit
They do weekly routes for every dungeon
cyan shore
Awesome, had no idea
Just found it
EXACTLY whta I was looking for, even route with skips and no skips
Thanks a ton
sweet summit
mortal arch
Is there any optimal stat weights currently for Prot
Most likely in regards to haste/vers values
I know according to any guide, they want as much as they can get but I'm a fury main and I'm trying to have a functional set for assisting with tanking for guild keys
I don't necessarily want to bomb peoples keys so just wondering if I should be aiming for certain amount of stats like vers
lofty widget
whatever gear gets you the highest ilvl will also give you the most survivability
theres not really any secondary statvalues you should be aiming for
mortal arch
I'll have a set that'll put me close to 223 item level
I don't really know the value of secondary stats for tank, just thought I'd ask
sweet summit
At equal ilvl just go haste>vers and ur set
mortal arch
Equal ilevel meaning when you compare two items at the same item level?
sweet summit
Yeah
mortal arch
Noted
sweet summit
With the exeption of rings/neck/trinket
Where you might drop some ilvl for better stats/better trinket effect
mortal arch
Alright noted on that as well
Is there any sort of range in regards to what item level for those slots is acceptable
For example, I have the pvp necklace as haste/vers but at 207
And I have huntsman 226 neck
mortal arch
The item level difference there is too large to matter
mortal arch
Yeah figured
gaunt dawn
3 train tracks
gaunt dawn
on low budget items
there is lower amounts of str (or no str) or armor
those are useful stats to consider too
or there's always the trusty sim 🙂
mortal arch
Outside of my defensive windows, wouldn't that mean I'm likely to get slapped without sufficient haste values
I mean vers
gaunt dawn
I personally dont sim on any of my tanks
gaunt dawn
vers gains are relatively minor compared to playing better
mortal arch
Hmm
gaunt dawn
only impactful when you have nailed the basics
mortal arch
Yeah alright if its a case of get gud then
gaunt dawn
and trust me
mortal arch
Its a case of get gud
gaunt dawn
a significant majority of tanks do not have that part done
i'd go as far to say, ballpark 90% of tanks have not nailed the basics
mortal arch
Yeah... I know... I'm a raid leader
And... When I have to do research for other main tanks
Its not fun
Alright cool thanks for the advice guys
gaunt dawn
I mean
as a tank you should ideally know how your co-tank works
so you can fill in gaps for each other
mortal arch
Oh I'm not a main tank
gaunt dawn
Dispel this myth about main tank/off tank
😡
its tank and co-tank
use tank friendly language
its 2021
mortal arch
I guess technically
gaunt dawn
if any player (as a tank) is thinking that their role is purely to "be tanky"
they're playing it wrong
that's just a requirement of the role
mortal arch
Just from a raid leader perspective
Mine is don't die when its important
And don't be shit to the point healers are using many externals on you
gaunt dawn
externals are planned tools
if theyre not used by the tank the healer decides what to do with em
but they should be part of any tanks CD planning
gaunt dawn
heck i chomp em all
🍴
means i can be more agressive
and require less healing
use em or lose em
sludgefist last week as an example
sick sentinel
jeez they made a mistake by bringing back class abilities
just did a +14 where the prot war tank was using mainly whirlwind
gaunt dawn
i inted a lil bit there, didnt use 2nd pot
sick sentinel
and was confused why he cant keep aggro
gaunt dawn
and forgot i still had a defensive trinket on
which i didnt use
😢
could have easily been 4.3k dps there
oh actually thats not a good example
i didnt use any externals
strong forum
That's alot of raid dmg taken wtf
sweet summit
Where is the warrior 
sweet summit
gaunt dawn
his best on sludge is 2.9k
jagged pier
gaunt dawn
10th March
sweet summit
Ill have u know i wouldve beat that dh
sweet summit
Tox
strong forum
How
sweet summit
👀
sweet summit
3k is 90% wth
jagged pier
because Nome there arent many warrior that play like use
alot of them just use IP
which is
strong forum
What a waste
jagged pier
^^
sweet summit
Necro is roughly same personal dps as kyrian
jagged pier
got to save for them boomkins
strong forum
But yeh, necro would explain the dps loss
Especially on sludge
You have like 0 on demand dmg during the dmg window
gaunt dawn
idd
and we have to run to melee/ranged camp 😢
to give them banner
on 2nd and 4th pillar
strong forum
MOMMY GIMME BUFFIES
jagged pier
imagine being simps and funning to other campes
strong forum
Sounds like a case of not worth it
Especially on sludge
Running around just to get the correct targets the buffs on sludge
Like super not worth it
sweet summit
@ max
strong forum
He's a dps he's already in dps camp
And knowning them he's also perma linked to hippo anyway
sweet summit
craggy harness
[pulls gun away]
fresh belfry
but they should be part of any tanks CD planning
leave pain sup for the disc priest as personal theyre more likely to die 😄
tacit viper
Im wanting to switch from a arms main to a prot main. Currently venthyr and struggling to pick a covenant for prot
solid cairn
Pick what you want, everything work
tacit viper
im thinking necrolord as i love their asthetic
frail talon
Im thinking of swapping from nf to kyrian
flint wraith
So split between NF and kyrian
Fewer kyrians -> easier to get into keys
but nf looks badass
Kyrian would however be good for pvp aswell
BUT NF LOOKS BADASS
strong forum
Kyrian is better if you wanna have all dungeon buffs and you get potion
NF is more damage
sick sentinel
I wish they'd unlock dungeon buffs when you reach exalted with that faction
tepid nest
how much will a good weapon effect our damage? i have only a 194 atm and im doing anywhere from 3 to 4.5k overall depending on dungeon
obviously it depends a lot on pulls, and how long i can sit in melee spamming revenge
strong forum
Well obv weapon has a big impact on dmg
gaunt dawn
weapon DPS is a factor on all abilities
tepid nest
i just didnt know how much weapon dps actually mattered to us, you know, it changes from class to class
some care, some dont
good to know!
tepid nest
do you guys happen to know what the best combat pot is for us?
does it depend on ST/cleave or ?
lofty widget
strength for aoe and shadowcore for ST
tepid nest
cool, thanks
gaunt dawn
all this information (and more) can be found in your friendly guide over on icy veins or wowhead
👼
tepid nest
ahh ye, im being that guy. i have read the guide to be fair but must have skimmed that part
inland raft
On the nf vs kyrian talk, having played both i feel from a purwly personal perspective nf is superior by a good margin, does more damage, locks down caster packs with 12 seconds of non dr stuns which drastically improves survival in pugs where kicks can be messy, and soulshape provides either a means to kite effectively when needed or an additional way to get a charge in for reprisal.
But i play kyrian because cov diversity
twilit jay
From my experience, the knockdowns on NF on top of the damage is a godsend for m+
signal plover
i mean kyrain has kleia and she has thighs
We must never doubt the power of the thighs
sick sentinel
What can I say to get my DH dps to cast darkness?
tepid nest
is it a pug?
sick sentinel
no
jagged pier
can u cast darkness?
tepid nest
is he forgetting, or refusing?
jagged pier
seems like a reasonable way
sick sentinel
"Its not good and has been nerfed a bunch" "Its not really worth casting"
sick sentinel
It seems like a good spell to me
tepid nest
it is a really good spell
lofty widget
whats the nerf to darkness? isnt it 20 % chance for attacks to miss you?
gloomy cradle
it is
tepid nest
idk if it was nerfed or not tbf, but it is still good
lofty widget
sounds insanely good for like, prides on high stacks
tepid nest
idd
sick sentinel
Summons darkness around you in an 8 yd radius, granting friendly targets a 20% chance to avoid all damage from an attack. Lasts 8 sec
tepid nest
or like, the shards in halls, raging spirit in dos
sick sentinel
Does it only work for one attack or is it for the entire 8 seconds?
tepid nest
entire 8 seconds
lofty widget
entire 8 sec
tepid nest
its really strong
idk man, i hate playing with ppl like ur dh
i'd just replace him hahaha
sick sentinel
did a 15 HoA last night, not a single cast
gloomy cradle
i mean if you refuse to use your biggest defensive cd that also happens to work for the entire party you're just bad..
and instead prioritize getting what, and extra chaos strike?
tepid nest
ye, something incredibly trivial like that
inland raft
Im a havoc main and can say if he refuses using it during ticking aoe replace him
hot pasture
As far as team comps go they are completely useless IMO.
inland raft
Also ive noticed most havocs are pretty bad right now which i blame on the dh discord
They actively feed wrong info yo people
sick sentinel
Well thanks. Now I feel better about why I was so confused at the situation
inland raft
It def used to be far stronger, bfa id pop it even for single hard hitting attacks and it would pay off often but its still insanelt strong on sustained damage
signal plover
It's like a warrior not wanting to rally, it's just pure, unfiltered stupid
inland raft
Rally so underrated bu a lot of players
But will admit can be hard to feel its impact visually
lofty widget
im still not quite sure when to rally, i tend to use it before big aoe dam or on high pride stacks
inland raft
High pride stacks, ticking damage when people atary getting low
In raid coupled with predictable damage like all raid cds are
In dungeons i use it as healer safety net when see healer falling behind
rough needle
you want to rally on pride ~10-11 seconds before you kill it
signal plover
In raid you should use it consistently during dangerous overlaps (best to coordinate with whoever calls your healer CDs)
rough needle
you dont want rally to fall off while you're still fighting pride
signal plover
In m+ I'd prolly agree with most and say somewhere during the second half of a pride (if you're running the inspiring conduit)
inland raft
M+ its a lot more flexible
Sometimes worth casting to save that one person who is about to die depending on situation
lofty widget
like a panic 15k heal
crimson furnace
guys, i tried necro, it was fun, but i want something else
is going kyrian the way for protection?
honest plinth
Kyrian or nf
solid cairn
Depend, do you do m+ in pug? Probably NF. You do your m+ with your team? You can go Kyrian if you need one.
You want to be a kyrian? Go kyrian
crimson furnace
90% team play
sick sentinel
Or if you have 3 NF dps classes and want something else for a change, go Kyrian for sure 😄
solid cairn
then you can take what you need in your team.
inland raft
Though venthyr sucks but thats why i bullied my pally into swapping venthyr
eternal glen
Any1 tried siesmic legendary? Im planning to make it
And i would like some feedback if there is any
inland raft
More dam then reprisal so can use in lower keys and probably mists where dont need as much uptime on block
eternal glen
Have you tried it?
inland raft
Not personally but plka has talked about it
jagged pier
ive tried it
has no defenisve value
and does about 200 dps more per key
is it really worth in low keys yes
in high keys nah
this is mists 16 with reprisal
signal plover
Mists is rigged
jagged pier
this is like mists 15 with seismic
not much difference in damage
and far more damage taken
not really worth it if your doing difficult content for yourself
for instance i only run seimic when im boosting keys as the damage is needed
sick sentinel
In the second one your overall is probably dragged down by the shit general dps though.
daring geyser
whats the word on Niya soulbinds for a prot warr running reprisal atm?
remote hawk
How are you doing that much dmg ? Im sittning with 220+ ilvl and 226 wep and feeling like im spamming revenage far to much and I'm usually around 3.5-3.7k
jagged pier
because i dont press IP
remote hawk
Sure would be nice to take a look at it
modern brook
I don't really have a good dps trinket tho
a good dps trinket wont find you 2k dps
tbh
remote hawk
I know that
jagged pier
i mean i was running phial and decanter and phial and hymnal in thos 2
i think
but thats only like 200 - 250 dps or somthing
sick sentinel
Jamey, can we see damage taken ?
jagged pier
in thos keys?
i dunno
dont think i logged them tbh
not high tho its mists 99% phyiscal
more damage taken with siemic 100%
signal plover
Gotta remember mists is big pad as well
dapper coral
holy crap, M SLG was a terrible fight
south yarrow
still is!
strong forum
Always was and still is
jagged pier
☝️
dapper coral
At least now I don't have to see it until we kill Donny
thorn ether
Unstopable force or Ravage and in which situations ?
jagged pier
running unstoppable force
i dont know why he would do that but seems dumb as its actually a dps lose
signal plover
But not much to complain about outside of wicked blade memes
thorn ether
what about rage gen , i am talking solely m+
jagged pier
rav is more
as TC is our lowest prio spell
even during avatar with UF
its difficult to fit TC in
because its not really worth it
chilly brook
Sim yourself for single target aka raid
Ravager pulled ahead for me for some reason
dapper coral
Hot take, M SLG is fine now
I don't disagree really, it's just a very unenjoyable fight. I really don't envy people who did it in it's original/near original state
strong forum
what about rage gen , i am talking solely m+
His current build is UF + bolster which is just complete int on his part
jagged pier
what about rage gen , i am talking solely m+
doint get me wrong there are ppl in here who want the UF build back as they enjoy the play style but they still wont run it as its not worth it
strong forum
UF loses half of its value without AM, and even with AM it loses to ravager
So he's either memeing, or just inting
honest plinth
he did 25s with ravager/am afaik
strong forum
Ye, when I saw glimpses of his stream it was rav AM
Prolly just baiting logging off with UF + Bolster
dark lark
Or maybe he dislikes the clunkiness of Ravager and is experimenting? Go figure
jagged pier
but UF is clunkier than ravager
dark lark
Ravager has great rage generation, sure, but it's an extra unnecessary global that has to be aimed for an opener in which he's probably already doing a lot
jagged pier
but u have to activly try and fit TC every time its off cd
dark lark
It's not that hard to hit clap lol
jagged pier
which is stupidly clunky
dark lark
If revenge isnt free you just hit clap
jagged pier
what no? u press revenge now
even when its not free
and it has a higher prio than TC
as its our threat generator
dark lark
It's also a spender, and fundamentally you should be keeping builders on CD over spenders if you're not about to overcap
Not using a builder while it's available is a loss of resources over time
jagged pier
yes but the whole purpose of UF u want to press TC during avatar which tbh i never do for a long time during avatar as i have enough rage from everything else
like we are flooded with rage
with reprisal
like u dont need to prio TC so much im never rage starved
but i guess u be you and ill be me
honest plinth
Or maybe he dislikes the clunkiness of Ravager and is experimenting? Go figure
there is no reason to experiment with shiet talent
strong forum
Ravager isn't any clunkier than demo shout
If you think that's clunky or too much idk bro
Maybe go to ff14 where a global is 2.5seconds
torn stump
god FF14 global is so painful
i have to go make a cup of coffee every time i press an ability
dark lark
While I don't personally think so, Naowh has explicitly said he thinks it's clunky on stream and I can only imagine Nerf doesn't like it because he's messing with UF.
strong forum
That's a 
gaunt dawn
clunky is a bad way to explain something you dont find satisfying to press
jagged pier
well if yur not flooded with rage then u msut be doing somthing wrong imo
gaunt dawn
or that does not have instant feedback which is more gratifiying
thats right
i said it
like what is clunky supposed to mean
gaunt dawn
BDK is everyones favourite tank
strong forum
Shade = thrown
strong forum
It very much does
dark lark
If you're playing 30apm on bdk you're doing it wrong lol
strong forum
Whenever I played bdk I wanted to kill myself
gaunt dawn
if DK had a 40% damage buff
it would play exactly the same
(and more damage has 0 impact on how it works defensively too)
jagged pier
theres a reason why i still havent lvled my BDK
honest plinth
well i fucking hate bdk sooooo not everyone haha
gaunt dawn
maybe i fuckin hate you 😢
strong forum
dark lark
oof
torn stump
i actually just starting leveling from 51-60 on my bdk last night
coming off of a fully geared prot war
strong forum
Na man I just hate everything about bdk playstyle
honest plinth
chill rude boy
torn stump
i feel like every hit will kill me
honest plinth
have some sex
strong forum
Super unsatisfying to me
mental scarab
dark lark
nothing kills you in normal dungeons...
torn stump
no i know
gaunt dawn
You have to get into a different mindset about your HP bar as DK (and Paladin)
spice marsh
i got 1 dude, got full gear 226 ( 2k1), got 35% versa, its better now haste?
strong forum
I hate when you want to do dmg but can't use a button cuz you don't have bloodboil charges and you're just left with heartstrike
dark lark
You can learn to do both playstyles of mitigation and self sustaining
jagged pier
no vers is not better
grand drum
I play both but prefer warrior bc damage. I lose threat way less often to our ret
jagged pier
case in point plka is now haste
gaunt dawn
😐
or tanks can just
gen more threat
(or do more damage, this one please)
maybe somewhat related to the damage you take
to feed into some kind of role playing fantasy
and leaning into fantasy RPG tropes
where you deal more damage, the more damage you take
torn stump
i believe that was called vengeance and it broke the game back in mop
gaunt dawn
but cap it
dark lark
rets need blessing of salvation back
A good ret player will actively use BOP/DS when they're doing their big burst openers, instead of relying it as a crutch oh shit button
honest plinth
combustion*
torn stump
thats fair, they have to keep hitting some buttons during wings
gaunt dawn
you can also aoe taunt 🙂
gaunt dawn
or shockwave em and rotate taunts
taunt, leap, taunt
generally pulls will not feature more than 2 mobs which are mega threatening
personally dont know of any scenario where a ret will constantly be peeling from you
that can't be countered with tools that you have
honest plinth
oh. try to play with monkey-ret-padder he will ds before you even use charge.
signal plover
I mean, if you can't beat a wheelchairadin into a pack
grand drum
when they have all their cds and pop them on pull
gaunt dawn
that would be every 4mins for a venthyr ret
modern brook
they're a) playing ret b) playing paladin c) are all trash
gaunt dawn
which is the same CD as AoE taunt
modern brook
easy solution
honest plinth
Dont play with ret paladins
thats what im doing haha
gaunt dawn
or every 2mins otherwise
modern brook
If you're going to play virgin warrior at least do it properly and play holy
honest plinth
that would be every 4mins for a venthyr ret
rets are kyrians afaik
gaunt dawn
if everyone is doing their shit on 2mins
that pack is deleted anyway
in scenarios where its not, you're not pulling that big anyway
and should be able to keep em with taunts
highest ive done this season is 18 i think? just doing weeklies
biggest pulls are like
honest plinth
there is no room for ret anyway in m+ so.....
gaunt dawn
7 mobs
honest plinth
biggest pulls are like
more
honest plinth
at least in dos, mists
gaunt dawn
and there's only like two of those pulls tops
per dungeon
DoS one of those would be stunned by the jar shit
All of those pulls are in the Ardenweld area
Mists, its exactly that scenario, those mobs will die in a shockwave and you keep the big grubs on you
A good chunk of the "big pulls" in DoS are mispulling the birds 🙃
honest plinth
seems like you have mdi lvl dps players in your grp
gaunt dawn
and you're running around to try and reset stacks from the matriarch 😢
idk if you're pulling big, you gotta have shit up as the tank
else whats the point
grand drum
I was talking about losing aggro to ret burst as blood, not warrior. but otherwise i agree with your points
gaunt dawn
ye blood is huge memes
gotta have DRW up
else its kinda like
woooo
yea
MD me
CRW being pretty legit now
helps with that A LOT
but with CRW you need to be playing around it
floral pewter
rets are kyrians afaik
and the dominant Ret build is based around bursting with 1-minute cooldowns, so you simply cannot bubble/bop every time
flat cosmos
hey guys, is there any worth in using fueld by violence or is the healing really minimum?
chilly brook
there is no room for ret anyway in m+ so.....
Ret is good lmao
Literally has insane 1m burst potential as Kyrian
chilly brook
I'm not arguing that DK is bad
Just that for some reason Ret is memed on when it shouldn't really be
gloomy cradle
i know; personally i'd rather bring a DK > ret any day of the week
but i agree, ret is fine
and has some decent utility
if you're not doing bleeding edge 25s you can use any comp, just that some will give you more of a crutch and leeway for mistakes
chilly brook
Like I've been playing my 204 ret pally for a little bit here and there
You're talking over 20k bursts at that ilvl in aoe
gloomy cradle
actually >21 it starts getting tough without the right cds
floral pewter
Ret is actually really good at a few niches in M+
blowing up prides and offhealing on Grievous weeks are both powerful
but yeah, it's hard to compete with a brez and uncapped aoe
gloomy cradle
have to say though the setup for dks is absolute aids..
chilly brook
Isn't it just epidemic that's uncapped?
Or is whatever strike they use to burst sores uncapped with dnd?
short kiln
I thought it was the dps caused by the bursting sores specifically that is uncapped
the strike itself is capped to 5
and then only in DND
chilly brook
Technically ret isn't as target capped as everyone likes to point out
floral pewter
it's only DS that's actually capped
but DS is the biggest part of ret's aoe
well, and Toll I guess
chilly brook
Lego helps fix that and Sanctified Wrath/Final Reckoning aren't
Sanctified Wrath does bonkers damage
latent escarp
Rets definitely easier to set up aoe than a uhdk. You have to set up sores to prep for your dnd cleave window and dumping rp in-between for epidemic.
honest plinth
Ret is good lmao
i didnt say they are bad.
honest plinth
no room not equal bad
fire and boomy are 2 bis dps specs rn
and we have 1 melee slot
chilly brook
If you can only take 3 specs then every other spec is bad by virtue lol
honest plinth
ofc you can play with ret or push as ret but im talking about good comp
no they are not
just not optimal you know
chilly brook
Again that's a different statement than what you made
honest plinth
but you can push 20s in every spec ofc
ok/ there is no place for them in my grp
so idc about them
in terms of their aggro etc
thats was the point
floral pewter
I mean, there's only 6 specs with lower representation in 20+ keys than Ret
so he's not wrong
no sorry, 7
and all of those are classes that have a spec doing better than ret
gentle oak
Ret would be s tier if he wasnt capped
Rets have a good kit for m+ Just not for what blizzard did to them. I mean if they were uncapped it would be easy to match raw burst dps of a mage
sturdy sable
Also off healing shouldn't be discounted
gentle oak
Yup. If they introduce target caps it should be either for everyone or noone
Fucking soulcleave hardcapped at 5 targets
Same with swipe, jesus
floral pewter
if caps were, like, 8 for ranged and 5 for melee, that would be fine
but 20 vs 5 is just silly
distant crystal
i like having different caps on different things
but 5 on everything with a small set of exceptions is dumb
like fury in bfa was a cool niche
would've either been broken if uncapped as is, or gimped in 2-5 targets if uncapped and nerfed to compensate
gentle oak
The Best comparison you see is on bolstering weeks blobs on plaguefall before 1st boss. Pull 3 too many and people that target capped to 5 are bolstering everything
But target capping tanks is another matter entirely
If dh wanted play anything other than kyrian they are fucked, since on high Keys you are using soul cleave and the only uncapped aoe you have is immo aura
Tell that to mage that is doing 10x your dps
distant crystal
tanks should all be sqrt
floral pewter
does anyone understand how the capping on revenge/tclap actually works? wowhead says this: "Linearly reduced damage from 5 to 12, no change from 12 to 13, uncapped from 13 to 20, soft-capped after 20."
and I'm not sure how to interpret that
distant crystal
same
sweet summit
same
strong forum
That's changed again, pretty sure
Now it's just sqrt after 5 targets
Same as revenge and spear
floral pewter
does sqrt after 5 targets mean that n targets take 1/sqrt(n-5) times as much damage?
chilly brook
Target caps are just dumb
Literally it's just what I said it would do
The best m+ dps are the uncapped ones
honest plinth
sv hunter?
jagged pier
sv hunter pumps if u get the right one
just saying
but theres only like 5 in the world
strong forum
does sqrt after 5 targets mean that n targets take 1/sqrt(n-5) times as much dam...
Don't know the exact formula
Same way as eye beam
iirc
honest plinth
but theres only like 5 in the world
because they are not that great i think
jagged pier
they actually really are
honest plinth
🙂
distant crystal
Max is actually trolling
that's just all of the cheesers and looks like ppl aren't cheesing for surv hunters
honest plinth
i mean there is second screen with all %
distant crystal
Like...outlaw rogue lol. It only shows up there because a few chinese guilds forbade anyone (except the rogue) from cleaving anything until winds/shields
honest plinth
middle of the pack
distant crystal
90-95% is much more useful of a graph vs Max
distant crystal
short gust
I play a hunter and survival has never appealed to me. The playstyle seems more like an unholy DK than a true hunter role. I think that’s why people don’t play it, not necessarily because it’s not meta.
distant crystal
that being said, surv is still bad :p
honest plinth
its 2 weeks
honest plinth
search for 1 week
distant crystal
i just hate survival because it was such a good ranged spec
and they ruined it
should've been BM
junior nexus
@jagged pier are you streaming your runs? I would love to see the playstyle where you did 5k dps
mighty cairn
jagged pier
<@179993058186625025> are you streaming your runs? I would love to see the plays...
i do not stream
i have vids tho
u can go watch them
junior nexus
Youtube?
jagged pier
yes
jakeyplops
there commentaries but i dont pause often if at all
so u can just turn the sound off and watch if u want
there commentaries but i dont pause often if at all
the first run with reprisal is one of the ones i put the picture up of earlier
junior nexus
Got it, thanks ;)
patent osprey
I did it bois
finally enough soul ash for my 4th 235 legendary lol
with 1 190 and another 210 xD so many legendaries
distant crystal
what a padlord
crystal nexus
i know it is a stupid question with a lot of guides. But i want to know it from the source.
Im switching from Fury Ventyr to Protection for Myth raid (we are at blood Council right now) because our DH tank is quitting.
But now im stuck with a hard one.
Night Fae or Kyrian?
I cant decide what is best... Any good advise?
distant crystal
blazing condor
Heroic strike
signal plover
F
patent osprey
i know it is a stupid question with a lot of guides. But i want to know it from ...
For Mythic raid, Kyrian is more defensive and sturdier
But both are fine
signal plover
Spear also lines up rly well with like every fight in the raid
crystal nexus
any big loss as kyrian in m+ vs night fae?
chilly brook
Less damage
distant crystal
less dam, more dungeon bonuses
chilly brook
NF go brrrrr
floral pewter
AA is big dam in M+, and locks down caster packs
but spear is no slouch in aoe damage either
chilly brook
With NF I expect more than average dps
Bruh wdym I'm literally doing a regular dps dps
crystal nexus
mmhh thx since raid is starting now i have enough time to think about it xD
astral crystal
what level key was that
wouldn't dmg be different in bigger keys where packs live longer?
chilly brook
what level key was that
Like a 16 I think
sterile moss
not sure what's up with the nickname, but that's definitely not low damage lol
chilly brook
not sure what's up with the nickname, but that's definitely not low damage lol
I was a fury boi for raid, swapped back to NF that day and it was the first key I did as NF since I was asked to start tanking
sick sentinel
I think I'm gonna go back to Kyrian. NF has been fun but I want those dungeon bonuses and I haven't seen spears damage since I was like 208 ilvl (221 now)
sterile moss
slender dust
how troll is venthyr for prot?
jagged pier
its fine
sour hill
Best single target damage, and actually decent absorb for condem
jagged pier
Best single target damage, and actually decent absorb for condem
i mean logs are kind of proving otherwise
sour hill
good to know. raid or M+?
jagged pier
raid
sterile moss
venth is actually not troll at all when it gets you the dungeon bonus on halls/sd. so that's also something to consider
sour hill
Interesting looking at logs how much diversity there actually is
languid flower
For prot warr, your covenant choice will alter your playstyle a bit, but all are viable.
jagged pier
^^
languid flower
I suspect Night Fae and Venthyr are the easiest to use, with Kyrian netting the best defensive benefit (but requires some expertise to use well), and Necro requiring the most amount of coordination.
jagged pier
nah bastion is fine even i can use it with my smol zug 🧠
languid flower
That said, I've been NF from the start (admittedly, for completely the wrong reasons) and I have no intentions to switch, so I can't say this from personal experience.
sterile moss
plush tendon
I would say that NF is probably one of the harder ones to use since you got to keep them in the blue
jagged pier
thats to much for my smol brain
plush tendon
but not by much
Also, who needs Kyrian dungeon buffs if you run with a WW 😄
My ideal group would be Prot War, WW, Rogue, Ele shamn, and healer (TBD)
daring geyser
thanks!!
fiery remnant
i just finished getting my blood dk and pal up to my warrior and its sad how much easier it feels tanking on those 2
signal plover
Play warr better
sterile moss
^:D
mighty valley
Not pushing the highest keys so double melee aint a big deal
most of my guild's farm 15s every week end up with all melee no lust comps
plush tendon
Double lock comps are where its at
😛
I always like to run with some off meta stuff, cause then you start to see what cool things the classes that arent played a lot can do
mighty valley
that's part of what not pugging gets you, you don't have to care about the meta at all
sour hill
My DPS alt is Enh Shaman, uncapped Doom Winds is actually OP. I only get beat by good fire mages or boomies
sterile moss
just got doom winds on my enh 
sour hill
I love enh, well, love the current iteration (and the TBC one)
plush tendon
that's part of what not pugging gets you, you don't have to care about the meta ...
People who pug and people who dont pug are literally playing two different games. I would choose not pugging 9/10 times, unless I pug with a chad H Pal
vocal bison
Love running all melee WW/enhance/ret, melee boofs ftw and big prot damage
Otherwise I like boomy+mage and a dk for pride or dh for magic buff
If I’m actually trying to push prefer the latter
sterile moss
I play with a boomie, and literally part of the "rotation" is calling trees
trees are stupidly good
kind geyser
i could not find in pins. reprisal legendary on legs with haste/vers stats?
mighty valley
i could not find in pins. reprisal legendary on legs with haste/vers stats?
yeah sure
only exception is if you care a lot about maximum power this tier, and you're gonna be farming mythic stone legion
dusky mica
trees are too disruptive, they need to increase the CD
chilly brook
i just finished getting my blood dk and pal up to my warrior and its sad how muc...
Paladin feels easier than warrior? Kekw
You're doing something wrong with warrior
plush tendon
Paladin is easier then war, until you actually have to mitigate damage
signal plover
It gets hit harder
I wouldn't necessarily say it is harder
Pal is a ton of fun tho
honest plinth
paladin=paper
vocal bison
Why mitigate when you can heal
chilly brook
I've seen a lot of people say paladin is harder
dusty geyser
^
chilly brook
Because it takes more damage and requires more to actually be viable at higher damage intakes
honest plinth
its harder to stay alive. it easier in terms of rotation etc imo
fiery remnant
i never said anything about harder content just talking in general
plush tendon
and War cant?
vocal bison
Not like a good pally, especially ST
honest plinth
war can . but paladin is dps machine
gloomy cradle
clearly the two are the same
chilly brook
Not like a good pally, especially ST
I too dislike doing over 5k as a prot warrior
gaunt crane
I have a question about HoA, in the room where the first boss is, I have trouble with the pulls. The pull to the left with the houndmaster especially. When you dont have a ventyr in the group do you pull the loyal stoneborn seperate?
sour hill
clearly the two are the same
gaunt crane
because you dont have much room there to pull the houndmaster
sour hill
I have a question about HoA, in the room where the first boss is, I have trouble...
Which groups are you pulling together?
it's a pita with venthyr, but possible.
vocal bison
I think i might be confused, but you shouldn’t need to pull either of the stoneborn in that room if you don’t have a venthyr
sour hill
Granted 80% of the time someone body pulls the stoneborn
unique bane
Boys. a 187 Wankener's Frond (haste buff 2min CD) or 207 Coalasced Hatred?
vocal bison
just pull back into previous room and walk through the middle?
vocal bison
oh the dude in the courtyard?
gaunt crane
yes, there's a stoneborn to the left
and you have a group with a houndmaster right after him
sour hill
Boys. a 187 Wankener's Frond (haste buff 2min CD) or 207 Coalasced Hatred?
the 207, imo. For the primary stat difference
gaunt crane
but usually they are pulled 😅
mighty valley
yeah most routes I don't pull that stoneborn or the pack near it, with or without venthyr
(i always have venthyr, it's me)
gloomy cradle
i mean if you're venthyr you should be using them, if not just skip them
mighty valley
depends on the week, sometimes that one just doesn't line up with when you want prides
gaunt crane
just make sure the pulls are safe then 😄
gloomy cradle
i mean you're losing damage by not using them, if its not lined up with a pride there are plenty of trash packs where they're effective
arguably they're more effective on trash since stone breath is an aoe
jagged pier
I found a use for QD
it good on 3rd boss in SoA when u take all the orbs
nice LoHs
when u dip low at 10 stacks
sour hill
QD?
vocal bison
QD? Quantum device or is that something else?
jagged pier
quantum device
sour hill
ah
jagged pier
but ima say it scale is better for soaking on that boss
vocal bison
I’m so happy I finally just got my alar trinket to go with my scale
i feel like a non flying version of a DH now, but also slightly heavier being a Tauren and all
jagged pier
meh couldnt care about al'ar trinket tbh
dont get me wrong it has its place but thats not in content i do
so i dont see the point in it
solid cairn
Quick question decanter 200 or glutonus spike 213?
solid cairn
raid hm and m+
languid flower
dont get me wrong it has its place but thats not in content i do
What is it you do?
lusty furnace
Hymnal up in EU again btw
vocal bison
I like being aggressive/always playing around with big pulls, nice to have a fall back in a big key if I screw something up so it doesn’t get bricked.
jagged pier
well i look at it this way in the 18/19/20s im doing if i die ive ither over pulled or fuked up my rotation, both fixable plus i think i get more value out of phial and Scale in the keys as if i dont die i get zero value from that trinket
and if i die multiple times i might only get a use out of it
2 or 3 times
where other trinkets i get use out of all the time
vocal bison
If I had a phial I would definitely run with that over alar on the keys i feel comfortable in. Until the alar trinket all I had are spike and scale, and a prepatch 203 iqd. Not the best trinket luck.
mighty valley
equipping al'ar trinket is a quiet vote of no confidence in my healer these days lol
patent osprey
I have trust issues with kicks so I run alar all the time :)
jagged pier
but you also do keys only us scrubs can only dream about
sweet kayak
I just found out that Ravager actually follows me -.-
jagged pier
well it follows mobs
plush tendon
its like a yoyo
sweet kayak
lol
signal plover
Ravager best pet 2021
vocal bison
My favorite part about ravager is watching my thunderfury spin around in a circle
sweet kayak
haha true
lime urchin
I shredder them and go back to thinking I am gud tonk
jagged pier
at least you read them
frosty estuary
heart of alar worth it on progression raiding? i understand its not that useful in farm
signal plover
Absolutely
jagged pier
not really damage is predicatble
plush tendon
probably only for Sire
signal plover
I've had heart save me countless times when seeing phases for the first time or messing around with add timings, allowing pulls to continue for DPS and healers to see
jagged pier
well cant speak for sire
plush tendon
otherwise, damage profiles pretty easy to plan around. Maybe if you are holding Starvos on Council. Still, its nice to have the cheat if yall are progging. The worst thing to do is have the tank die while progging on a boss
signal plover
It's not needed but I'd say it's worth it.
vestal moat
I would probably wear the LFR ashes all of next tier for prog raiding if it's not nerfed and i didnt have an upgraded one. Full progression mindset.
patent osprey
I just found out that Ravager actually follows me -.-
Yeah Ravager follows me.....
https://clips.twitch.tv/InventiveSavageHornetWTRuck-Pc76j8icQI1eL0OX
gloomy cradle
it was just planning ahead
hot pasture
I have trust issues with kicks so I run alar all the time :)
Agreed alar has saved runs more than I can count. And no one even realizes it haha except maybe the healer and I 😂
plush tendon
yep, happened to me in a HoA yesterday; did a nice big puppy pull and was out of the meatgrinder letting the dps finish the pack, and they let 2 enraged casts go through
100-0 proc trinket
hot pasture
Had a full pack enrage yesterday and my healer says “I’d suggest you run now” and I died laughing at that haha
plush tendon
A lot of times i just treat raging like necrotic
when the packs gets low, time to get out and assess the situation
again, depends on pack to pack
hot pasture
That’s a good way to look at it tbh
plush tendon
yea, nothing worse then sitting there and you and your healer are chilling and then suddenly 10 mobs become enraged and you just get flattened
hot pasture
I’ve recently switched from DH to prot warr some I’m some what rebellious to kiting atm although I know it’s needed depending on affixes and pulls
plush tendon
kitting on War is good with reprisal
you run out, wait a couple of seconds, then charge back in
The difference I would say is that while DHs start kitting and dont go back in, a war does end up going back in
hot pasture
Spear is also a nice bonus imo and pairs very well with reprisal, charge and intervene
plush tendon
I use AA
locks them packs down
and a do a lot of dungeons with a WW + rogue
shit gets CCed pretty well between the 3 of us
hot pasture
Trying to get a rogue in my group
I like running rogue, boom and mage
Just feels nice
plush tendon
People were so low on rogues because their damage isnt as great as it was
hot pasture
But that utility
hot pasture
In almost every key I have some sort of skip
hot pasture
I agree their toolkit is extremely underrated atm I think it’s on the rise tho. They look nice for 9.1 imo
plush tendon
I was really hoping that this would be the tier where we would see a couple of different potential comps arise rather then the 1 dominant one
plush tendon
Depends on what they do to fire
I think we are all waiting to see what the hell happens to that spec
hot pasture
I mean it’s blizzard so probably won’t be a good situation
plush tendon
I love me Ele shamans
hot pasture
It’s similar to the DH Prot warr convo. Just let the DH keep catching those nerfs and buff us haha
If prot warr had 2 charges of heroic leap 
strong forum
wouldnt change a thing
hot pasture
I disagree
amber herald
make heroic leap give shield block
digital arch
is Overwhelming Power Crystal good for tank ofensive or i stay if the legion trinket?
im using the plaguefal trinket because didnt get the dos
sterile moss
while you're at it make heroic leap stun targets nearby!
you should probably sim it @digital arch
if your main concern is offensive
candid niche
on inerva is it worth using SR incase you get concentrated anima or is it better used on unconscionable guilt ? havent tanked at all but im filling in for a main tank next week
i imagine using it on guilt is the play but just wanted to check with some experts
solemn magnet
Buffing prot won't change group comps
rancid ember
on inerva is it worth using SR incase you get concentrated anima or is it better...
Tanks can't get the add cast on them
rancid ember
You sure? I been tanking M Inerva for 6+ weeks. Never seen it cast on me or the other tank once.
chilly brook
You sure? I been tanking M Inerva for 6+ weeks. Never seen it cast on me or the ...
They can indeed
rancid ember
That sounds impossible that in probably 50-60+ pulls I never got it once though..
You sure you're not thinking of the Tank Buster at 66%+? Similar red circle
rancid ember
You have alot of DPS dead or something? Logs or it didn't happen XD
rancid ember
Erga have you ever seen the add debuff get cast on a tank tho?
mellow gorge
+2ed a +15 wooo, feels very satisfying 😄
sweet summit
i have never
rancid ember
Nice that's what I'm saying lol
wanton spindle
It can happen, happened a few times on our inerva pulls to the tanks but believe what you want man.
digital arch
30% of critic for prot is good?
gloomy cradle
think i have 11-12% crit lol
vital plover
How is quantum device for prot warriors?
distant crystal
hot pasture
while you're at it make heroic leap stun targets nearby!
Now there’s an actual legit idea 😉
distant crystal
make heroic leap mass grip targets nearby
chilly brook
Erga have you ever seen the add debuff get cast on a tank tho?
It can happen....I've had it happen in heroic
inland silo
Erga have you ever seen the add debuff get cast on a tank tho?
add spawned on our brm. only had 1 dead at the time
distant crystal
add debuff doesn't happen to tanks...on mythic at least
unless there's a lotta dead ppl then all the rules go out the window
chilly brook
add debuff doesn't happen to tanks...on mythic at least
What's that above what you said then?
Idk why people are arguing it cant happen
When it can
And logs are available
Literally from reflect sheet
fallow beacon
Yeah had it happen to me like once during inerva prog, seems super low chance
Pretty sure everyone was alive too
distant crystal
ya know
fury/arms warriors have reflect right
i've got like a bajillion pulls on that boss as a tank and never got the debuff (on mythic)
🤷♀️
never gotten it on heroic either but far fewer pulls so idk maybe it's a thing there
@inland silo do you guys happen to have a shitload of immuners in your raid
that were all doing the pre-immune cheese?
or something like that
dusky mica
the add debuff can spawn on tanks, and you can reflect it onto Inerva. Anyone who says otherwise just hasn't seen it happen.
distant crystal
I mean ofc it can be pre-reflected
rancid ember
Arms/Fury can reflect that's prob why it's trhere. Never seen on a tank in HC or M.
distant crystal
every dps warr does that
something weird happened for it to go on a tank tho, that's def not normal
distant crystal
maybe it's some weird shit where it can't happen to the 2 closest ppl or something
fading fog
yo boys, got a question. My friend wants to play protection warrior, what covenant is the best?
distant crystal
spaghetti way of making it not go on tanks w/o just making it not go on tanks lol
distant crystal
nf or kyrian
shut summit
yea who knows, its something that can happen though, def have logs of it
and yea nf or kyrian, i would lean toward nf
chilly brook
i've got like a bajillion pulls on that boss as a tank and never got the debuff ...
You're literally using the equivalent of "I've never gotten a BoE purple while leveling so they don't exist" as an argument
craggy harness
Definitely happens, usually only really notice when dps are dead (even 1 or 2). But sometimes I wonder if I spell reflected one early
Made me think I had the tank mechanic circle at first when it starts moving around.
fading fog
Thank you for ur help boys
distant crystal
You're literally using the equivalent of "I've never gotten a BoE purple while l...
If I was bored enough and didn't have to leave I'd show that it's virtually impossible for me to have that many pulls never getting it without there being some strong bias against it going on tanks
gotta be something like 0.0001% chance to not get a 1/20 roll with that many samples
chilly brook
Having a bias on who it goes on doesnt mean it can never go on those players
distant crystal
Having it never go on tanks means it never does tho...except when it does 😄
dusky mica
I worked off the assumption that it would probably happen if people immuned before she cast the spell
craggy harness
im tryng more dps as tank and proc
Out of curiosity @digital arch, what addon shows the stats like that?
dusky mica
rather than during (like you should)
craggy harness
Wait what? No, you immune before it casts
if you do it after, you run the risk of having the add spawn early and in place
distant crystal
I think you immune before it finishes
chilly brook
You have to reflect before the cast wat
distant crystal
but not before she starts
dusky mica
yes
chilly brook
Before it goes off that is