protection

[torn stump]

also DHs are subhuman garbage

[tender oak]

And nothing but yellow, orange and blue in the dps, nothing new there

Stale meta be stale

[torn stump]

if we start treating DHs like people, the terrorists win

[amber herald]

hey now

one group took two dps druids

[vestal moat]

For anyone who also plays fury is korayn workable by just pushing one button to change paths from prot to fury or am I going to have to reslot conduits each time

Thinking of switching to NF for farm raid and all m+

[flat cosmos]

Yo guys, am I missing something here or do weird people just exist? guy loots 203 haste vers helmet (already has 213 of the exact same helmet) when I ask him if he needs it as it's a big upgrade for me he just says "y" leaves group and puts me on ignore

Suppose his 213 version was maybe from 9.0 is only thing I can think of?

[torn stump]

or he just doesn't want to give stuff to other people

[tender oak]

Some people just get enjoyment out of being dicks to others for no reason

[flat cosmos]

ah well the journey of pugging my fresh prot warr to a decent ilvl (whilst seemingly only looting rings and weapons) continues!

[patent osprey]

You never know, maybe he needs the helm for a transmog set and he doesn't have enough gold to feed his family of 6 with 2 grandparents that don't work anymore. So in order for him to look dope and fresh for his next job interview for limit's coat room hanger during the World First Race, he has to have that exact helm as he already tmoged his old one to look like a Blizzcon Yeti Onezy Champion.

[flat cosmos]

I think you’ve cracked it

[mighty valley]

it's possssible their 213 version was from before 9.0.5 and so can't be upgraded?

and they're gonna plow a billion valor into the 203 version?

oh you already said that

cool cool cool

[flat cosmos]

It was honestly the only thing I could think of

May as well hopefully learn something though: is there a priority for valor point use? I’m sitting at 203 ilvl now on my guardian that’s 220 I just plow my valor points into me lower ilvl pieces to bring them up to par, but it’s got a lot more 226 weekly pieces, on my warrior basically everything is an upgrade atm so wondering how to wisely spend my valor

[mighty valley]

i mean, optimally you'd only put them into BIS 210s that you'd only replace with vault/mythic raid items

I think so long as you're climbing through m+ ranks, I wouldn't put too many points into random armor pieces that you might just replace with drops

If you get any upgradeable shield though, that's probably a safe place to dump valor

[flat cosmos]

Was going to only put it in haste vers pieces I get, and then quality trinkets like scale and decanter

Thanks for the advice

[mighty valley]

I think if you get the big haste rings/neck, those are also pretty good, since the upgrades are relatively cheap

[twin vine]

used all my valor on my fury weapons, then shelved fury to learn prot and being valor capped for the week

feels bad

[patent osprey]

take my valorrrrr

or let me use it in my alts ^.^ ty blizz

[flat cosmos]

Is it 3k or so valor do fully upgrade weapons?

[tall grail]

Is Best Served Cold better than Booming Voice when running Reprisal?

[patent osprey]

both good. BSC for maximum dam. BV for more defensive value and slightly better ST

[tall grail]

I see, thanks! Does the proc of Revenge from Reprisal gain the 50% from BSC?

[hollow sun]

i can't go past 2.7k overall dmg even with best served cold

[cerulean pebble]

Yes it does. Since it is a "free" use of Revenge

[vocal bison]

Need to do chonkier pulls

[torn stump]

just learned a new trick

if your dps are being shitty mid run

[sweet summit]

wdym

at what target count?

[torn stump]

tell them "stop playing like a BFA demon hunter, you're better than that"

and they improve

[languid flower]

It might be easiest to draw the line between when to use oil and when to use stones, whatever that line happens to be.

[sweet summit]

I oil in raids and stone in m+

The difference is pretty marginal anyway

So i wouldnt say its wrong to use whatever is cheaper either

[cerulean pebble]

I just use stones since I can make them. Plus I am swimming in the stuff that makes them. It just feels weird putting weapon oils on as a physical damage user

the extra attack power is nice

[outer solstice]

the proccs scale with versa though

[unique shale]

i sim sinful and lightless force and sim showed sinfull does more dps in aoe ??!

[outer solstice]

from oil

[languid flower]

I use embalmer's oil in raid, because imo survival > all other stats there.
I'm more lenient in mythic+ and often opt for a bit more damage

[outer solstice]

how much does embalmers heal you though?

got some log for me?

[unique shale]

last time i checked mine it did 50k healing at max

[sweet summit]

[outer solstice]

yeah I'll stick to shadowcore then xD

[unique shale]

i think it should be less

[sweet summit]

Thats thw second time ive heard someone use embalmer oil

And thats kinda weird that it happened twice

[cold flame]

guys what's the addon for M+ paths? isnt there an addon that just marks what you should do?

[outer solstice]

MDT

but for automarking there are some weird WAs

I don't sue those

use

[cold flame]

kk ty

[floral pewter]

I mean, AP effectively scales with vers too, so that's a wash

not that it literally gives you more AP, but AP boosts ability damage which is then increased by vers

[sick sentinel]

Anyone super good with WA?

[sweet summit]

sometimes

[sick sentinel]

Wanting a WA for Ignore Pain & Shield Block Buffs

Is that possible?

[sweet summit]

have you checked the pins in #ui-addons-manager

should be some there

[tender carbon]

how do you get details to show % blocked of melee hits, where can i see that?

[sweet summit]

it does not

[tender carbon]

oh

[sweet summit]

youd have to look at logs

[urban portal]

why do wars have the best explosive clears

[supple fable]

Revenge is strong but god damn does it feel weak to use

Needs a better sound or visual effect, it feels so low impact

[floral pewter]

I like the ones in the Afenar warrior pack, gives duration bars and also an absorb tracker for IP

[floral pewter]

Did they ever change the animation after making it a cone instead of ST?

[supple fable]

doesn't seem like it

it just feels limp noodle compared to other rotational AoE abilities like shield of the righteous, thrash, or keg smash

[mighty valley]

yeah I agree, it doesn't even really have much of a theme

[weary python]

For key pushing should I aim for a vers/mast pieces of gear and some with haste? I’m seeing a lot of the higher io guys running around 35% mastery and lower vers. Just trying to figure out the sweet spot for stats I should aim for with keys and raiding.

[torn stump]

if you're solely dedicated to tanking just go ilvl>haste/vers

[median tulip]

With Reprisal Mastery rises in value and Haste decreases, IMO

[shadow spindle]

hey, does anyone have any tips for tanking in dungeons? Specifically for larger pulls, how do you keep threat on multi-target pulls? I haven't finished levelling my warrior yet but from the few normals I've done I've had issue with dps burst windows ripping aggro on a few of the mobs.

[torn stump]

ravager as you charge in, if things are really spread throw ravager towards the back of the pack so it will tag things that may be just out of reach of the main pack as it travels towards your main target

TC on landing

tell your dps to chill

revenge revenge revenge

[mighty valley]

might wanna do a revenge before shield slam if you have big split aoe dps

i wouldn't worry too much about leveling dungeons since sometimes you just get paired with a huge buff 60

and all the scaling is wacky

[shadow spindle]

also true, just want to have a heads up on what I should be doing

[mighty valley]

generally try and have avatar in sync with your group's CDs

to help you keep up

[mellow gorge]

use the AoE taunt

[torn stump]

even when you start doing keys, if you're pugging, dps cant fucking wait to mash their buttons

so sometimes ya you gotta challenging shout

[mighty valley]

aoe taunt in desperation every 4 mins hah

[torn stump]

or pop a big cd early that you dont really want to

[mellow gorge]

tis better to use it off CD

then wait

it's a taunt

[torn stump]

so you can use rage for revenge

[mellow gorge]

after all

and ye that

just mash AoE

but in pugs just pop AoE taunt

them boomies can't wait for conjoke

[torn stump]

pug dps are literally hitlers

[shadow spindle]

lmao

[torn stump]

you just have to adapt to their smoothbrain

[mellow gorge]

if they see conjoke off CD

and the pack is bigger than 1

you best assume they are typing a rant

on how bad you are of a tank for not pulling every microsecond

[shadow spindle]

just trying to get into the tank mindset as well

been playing hunter so its easy to misdirect and turn my brain off

[torn stump]

pug hunters

the worst

misdirect doesnt do damage

why use

[mellow gorge]

the tank mindset, "get hit, no die"

[shadow spindle]

I'm a good noodle I swear

[mellow gorge]

to this day

i have never met a hunter

who has used binding shot

in pugs

[shadow spindle]

damn really

[mellow gorge]

yep

[shadow spindle]

that's rough

I haven't done a whole lot of pug groups, usually have a guildie tanking anyways

[torn stump]

also, prepare yourself for autismal boomkins, who only seem to pop trees during packs that have frontal cleaves

[mellow gorge]

ah

[torn stump]

then blame you when half the group dies

[mellow gorge]

don't even

get me started

the amount of times

they pop trees

on cleaving mobs

and then i see 3 people at 50% hp

[torn stump]

shamans with earth ele tho are class acts

[shadow spindle]

what's trees?

[torn stump]

for some reason shamans know their shit

[mellow gorge]

boomi minions that draw aggro

so they usually use it for you to be able to relax a bit

but they "usually" use it at the worst possible pack

good intentions, bad executions

[shadow spindle]

huh. I'm surprised I've never noticed it, I play with boomies all the time

[mellow gorge]

yeah

it's a talent

they uh

[shadow spindle]

ah

[mellow gorge]

probably take some minor marginal dps talent

[shadow spindle]

that's probs why

[torn stump]

also all melee during quaking, feel the need to get as close to the mobs anus as possible

and have no awareness of their quaking circle

[mellow gorge]

even the ranged lol

[torn stump]

yes

ranged players basically have to positions

[mellow gorge]

yea first row talent summons 3 treants for 10 seconds

[torn stump]

way fucking far back pulling aggro off you out of taunt range

or right next to you for no reason getting killed

[mellow gorge]

i've uh

had a ranged

die to shard thrash

how? i don't know

[torn stump]

im assuming it gets better above the 11-15 key range

but when you're pushing for ksm

non meta dps are so much more reliable

[mellow gorge]

the issue is that

[torn stump]

simply because they have to try harder

[mellow gorge]

for me

it's the worst in the 11-15 range

because you get shiny rio looking dps with high ilvl

and then they proceed to pull and never interrupt

let alone use CDs

which makes me question how the hell did they even reach this

[torn stump]

combust go brrrr

[mellow gorge]

i had a mage

that NEVER used combust

in a +13

NEVER bothered to use combust

[shadow spindle]

damn dude

[mellow gorge]

i out dpsed him

[shadow spindle]

that's impressive

[torn stump]

these are real things, prepare yourself

pug life is fucking wild

[shadow spindle]

I've just been hoping to meet expectations when I run as a pug dps, I thought the bar was a lot higher

[torn stump]

i still have one dungeon to go for ksm but based on last xpacs experience as well

the bar is very low

[mellow gorge]

i need 5 more dungeons for ksm

[torn stump]

but ya the 11-15 range is brutal

[shadow spindle]

I'm only at 1/8, but doing some of those keys with pugs was brutal for just the +10 one

[mellow gorge]

at this point

it's going to be 5 dungeons to kms

[shadow spindle]

wiped before first boss 3 runs in a row on plaguefall keys

[mellow gorge]

yeahh

[shadow spindle]

mind you I think that week was also my first grievous experience

[torn stump]

the nice thing about pugging as a tank is you can cherry pick your groups

[mellow gorge]

not if ur prot lol

[shadow spindle]

lmao

[torn stump]

so like, for dungeons with certain skips i just filter for only groups that already have a healer and the class i want to enable the skip

[shadow spindle]

idk, people are thirsty for tanks for sure

[torn stump]

ive had like no trouble getting groups

[mellow gorge]

i once applied

to a top 15

for over 20 minutes

in the middle of the night

they waited for a tank that isn't prot for well over 20 minutes

and still didn't get one

[torn stump]

amazing

[mellow gorge]

very so

[torn stump]

i just finished TOP 15 today

it took 5 tries

[mellow gorge]

i honestly

[torn stump]

dps be ready to throw

[mellow gorge]

don't know why alot of people have difficulties with ToP

when it comes to literally interrupting

one mob

they lose their marbles

[mighty valley]

if all i could do was pug, and pugging was as bad as you all say, i would not play wow lol

[mellow gorge]

bone spear? bolt volley?

sounds like a buff

let's let it cast

[shadow spindle]

there's not much to interrupt in ToP except for the portal wing right?

[mellow gorge]

but grave spike? nah nahn ah

yeah the portal wing

[torn stump]

lmao the second platform if you go right in TOP

wreeeecks pugs

[mellow gorge]

and a bit of the gorechop one

with withering discharge

[shadow spindle]

ah yeah

[mellow gorge]

i don't know why

but i've always failed my keys

due to the smol platform

[shadow spindle]

I've run too many keys with MM hunter/Balance/SP

[mellow gorge]

with the magus, death winds and the volley mob

[shadow spindle]

interrupting just doesn't happen

[torn stump]

death winds also kills that key alot

[shadow spindle]

even with a relatively coordinated group

[mellow gorge]

as i once said

"interrupting isn't part of my dps rotation!"

is the DPS moto

[torn stump]

they should add solar beam into convoke

problem solved

[shadow spindle]

nah see I fixed that problem

because my interrupt puts a dot

on them

ez clap

nf niya soulbind

[mellow gorge]

i'm a kyria

so i do not know

what are soulbinds

that you speak of

i only know spear and chug

[shadow spindle]

I guess on the note of covenants, pugging as necro might be kinda yikes huh

[torn stump]

oh also the traps from the huntmasters in SD, will kill any melee in your group

[mellow gorge]

ah yes

volatile traps

one shotted me

[torn stump]

no matter how well you reposition the pack

your melee will find teh traps and run over them

[shadow spindle]

there are traps in SD?

I thought it was just a raid thing

[torn stump]

the huntmaster mobs throw them on the ground

[mellow gorge]

huntmaster uses an ability called volatile traps

throws around traps that do big ow ow

and melee see shiny and step in it

[torn stump]

also when you are making routes, know that if a pack can be accidentally body pulled

your dps will do it

[shadow spindle]

hmm. I'd always been more worried about the echoing thrust personally

tanks have been doing good work with it so far tho

nbd

[ionic fern]

I try to snipe kill my melees with it.

[torn stump]

this is the way

[shadow spindle]

lmao

[ionic fern]

If they don't stun Animated Weapons

They going to die to Echoing.

[torn stump]

and speaking of SD

if you don't specifically tell your dps to focus teh general in the gauntlet

you will be there for literally ever

[shadow spindle]

didn't realize I had dps brain, now that I think about it

[mellow gorge]

i've once had to shout at a dps

to use the lantern

instead of fighting the gargons

i had to handle 2 packs, 4 gargons and the general

all the while the dps is at the back hammering away

instead of popping the lantern

it really is amazing

[torn stump]

im venth so, the lantern in the gauntlet i will try to save 2-4 doggos, drag them over to the lantern

shockwave them

then pull the next pack with ravager

[shadow spindle]

I haven't run with venthyr in SD in a long time, how important is that buff?

[torn stump]

and have a juicy 10stack buff under my terms

[mellow gorge]

honestly

one of my favorite parts

in SD

is that pride counts for the lantern

so that's a nice tidbid

[ionic fern]

It's not as important on lower-medium keys but becomes increasingly more important on higher ones.

[mellow gorge]

it's basically a pride buff

buf stronk

and in conjunction with pride

[shadow spindle]

wows its actually been 2 months since I've run SD

[mellow gorge]

you get 100% ? dmg buff i think

[torn stump]

with a full stack yeah

[shadow spindle]

guess I need to practice up before I try a 15

well ty for advice, will be back soon

:waves

ope

[torn stump]

if you have people to run with who arent pugs, do that

[zealous timber]

Same, thought I could survive a +14 trap and just killed myself in it while stepping out of echoing thrust

[torn stump]

you know what, I wonder if you can spell reflect the traps

i never thought to try it

[merry quail]

You can

[unique bane]

Hey guys I started playing prot a few days ago. Ive been prioritizing haste/vers but how do these weigh against eachother? Ive looked up multiple high end warriors and one goes haste and the other goes vers lol

[blissful root]

Hey guys! I've got my DH, Druid and Pala geared at the moment. (And Mage/Shaman as DPS/Healer alts)
I've been maining my DH, I hate Guardian and Prot Pala still feels gimmicky to me. I've been considering picking up my warrior again as to prep for possible 9.1 changes.

Last time I played warrior was in WOD, so it's been a while. I heard Prot Warrior is starting to boom again due to the legendary revamp and shield uptime.

Since our current M+ push group really lacks a venthyr, I was wondering how well a Venthyr prot war would do 🙂

[jagged pier]

venthyr is the worst cov for m+

[subtle tulip]

Venthyr is the least impressive yea, but its also situational what kind of covenants you got going in your group. If you do not have a venthyr it definetly might be worth for the HoA and SD.

[dense flame]

At least you bring some extra ST dmg.

[torn stump]

i just finished KSM as venthyr, it feels fine

[jagged pier]

yer you can do anything as venthyr i didnt say it was bad i said it was the worst for m+ which it is as it gives you nothing in aoe

[torn stump]

tru

[blissful root]

So it's pretty much the same reason as per why I'm staying Kyrian as DH, the loss of snap agro is pretty shitty

[ionic fern]

Honestly both work. Haste smooths out your damage intake due to lowering SB CD while Vers helps with overall mitigation.
Some people prefer to stack Vers, others prefer to stack Haste - there's no clear winner in most situations and you will do fine with either.
Your overall survivability on high keys (20+) is not tied to your stats but rather how you play the class and how well your DPS'ers interrupt/cc the dangerous things.

[blissful root]

So been looking at some statistics (Subcreation M+, Warcraftlogs, Murlok.io)

For Arms/Fury in raids it seems like Kyrian is worst, Night Fae / Venthyr are pretty equal.
For Arms/Fury in PvP it seems like Venthyr / Kyrian is best, Night fae is worst.
For Prot in M+ it seems like Kyrian is best, Night-Fae is second and Venthyr is worst but brings nice utility.

[ionic fern]

It's not as black and white.

[blissful root]

So going NF would be fine if I was planning to go PvE Raid offspec + Main tank in M+
Kyrian if I'd go pure tank
Venthyr if I'd want to bring utility to M+ and be allround with DPSing offspec in raids and do some pvp

Yeah it often isn't. I really hate the covenant system a lot because all my characters are stuck in a certain role..

[ionic fern]

If you seriously push m+ you would go for Kyrian just mainly due to the fact that no other role prefers Kyrian and you want the benefits in NW/SoA.

Even tho NF is arguably better for prot in m+.

[blissful root]

Aye, I have my DH to push for +24s. For my warrior I just want to chill at +18-19 keys.

[weak creek]

so i have like 130 weapons but i have enough conquest to get either a shield or a 1 hander, which one should i prio

[ionic fern]

Then it's w/e jeah - just go NF as it's great.

[blissful root]

Aye, is NF any good for PvP tho?

[ionic fern]

Shield is your biggest upgrade. 🙂

[jagged pier]

not really

[blissful root]

reeeeeeeee

[ionic fern]

@lyric summit is NF good in PvP?

👀

I think he was the pvp person.

[weak creek]

thanks homie

[jagged pier]

NF isnt bad it can pretty much one shot ppl, but its not as good as condemn or spear im pretty sure

[torn stump]

Venthyr for 2s, Kyrian for 3s

[lyric summit]

For prot?

[ionic fern]

Idk, what are you playing in PvP+

Probably not prot?

😂

[blissful root]

Arms 😛

[lyric summit]

Venthyr = Kyrian = Necrolord >= Night Fae

🙂

[ionic fern]

Thank you kind sir.

[blissful root]

Thanks Kargish

So I could still go Kyrian to do Prot M+ and Arms PvP...

But no raids then

[torn stump]

kyrian isnt going to handicap you in raid

[ionic fern]

I'm 100% sure that for any general content you can pick what ever covenant and be fine.

[weak dune]

it really isn't that hard to switch covs either

[blissful root]

It really is tho

You can't hotswap covenants, you're locked at weekly reset

[weak dune]

ya so... play 1 for a week and switch

[ionic fern]

I would just pick the one you prefer and go with that. I doubt you are looking to min-max all contents on your alt warrior.

[blissful root]

Yeah true. But it's still a 1-2k DPS loss.

[torn stump]

mEaNiNgFuL cHoIcE

[blissful root]

I'm pretty sure you know that's not really playable

Yeah I suppose I'm just going Kyrian

[ionic fern]

👍

[blissful root]

Thanks a lot @ionic fern!

[patent osprey]

Push week over!

I can finally rest!

[ionic fern]

I did an amazing 2 keys this week.

[patent osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/lazy-panda-gif-4149575

[ionic fern]

Did you reclaim r1?

[patent osprey]

nope

but I did my best. that is all that counts

:)

[ionic fern]

Sorry, this discord is only for REAL prot warriors.
Ban

[upper juniper]

when do i go anger management vs bolster?

[blissful root]

Ah it's @patent osprey, you're actually the guy that made me create my warrior alt again 😄

[upper juniper]

in the context of m+

[patent osprey]

ripped whelp it's been nice! Hopefully Nerf treats yell better than I T_T

[blissful root]

My push week for DH consisted of spamming more than 40 DoS runs lol.

Think I'm at about ~80 runs now, still no scale

[patent osprey]

<3 @blissful root

[ionic fern]

Bolster is generally the go-to when using The Wall.
AM is more with Reprisal.
You can still use Bolster with Reprisal in some heavy blockable damage dungeons.

[upper juniper]

okay thank you ^_^

as of now ive mostly played with bolster but ill try am tomorrow

[glossy wave]

How is heavy repercussions in dungeons ? I did a few try with it and it seemed more than fine

[ionic fern]

Too RNG.
You can't guarantee SS resets when SB is up.
It does get a bit better with Reprisal due to the increased SB uptime meaning more chances for SS's to be in SB windows but in general if you want more block uptime you would run Bolster for the control.

[glossy wave]

Fair, still had around 90% uptime on shield block whitout overplaying it

[ionic fern]

Just wish they would re-work HR so it would provide 1s of SB regardless if you have it up or not. 👀

[jagged pier]

just wish people would talk in effective uptime instead of overall 👀

[glossy wave]

it is effective uptime

[jagged pier]

well i would assume you should be even closer to 100 with HR and repisal tbh

[glossy wave]

Like i said i didn't really overplay it so i didn't charge / intervene on cd

I bet if i tryhard a bit a can be real close to that

[jagged pier]

i mean you can get to 86 or higher without HR

and proper play so i would hope so

[glossy wave]

But me brain is a bit small to do that while tanking

[ionic fern]

I'm too busy spamming revenge to look after SB.

Just yell at the healer for more heals.

[glossy wave]

yeah but sometime using charge is a bit awkward

[jagged pier]

☝️

[glossy wave]

Mobs moves too fast too kite, and you cant really jump, same problems for boss / pride

[ionic fern]

Wait, why can't you jump?

👀

[jagged pier]

cant jump

[polar hamlet]

Whats HR?

[ionic fern]

Heavy Repercussion

[polar hamlet]

Ty

[glossy wave]

not that i cant, more the timing are a bit awkward and its a long cd

So i cant use charge on cd cause jump is not back for it

[lofty widget]

you could also, idk, shockwave and charge back in

or just run away and charge back

[ionic fern]

Tbf it can be wonky sometimes.

[jagged pier]

get max distance and fear

then chrage

[ionic fern]

What key levels did you try with HR out of curiosity @glossy wave ?

[glossy wave]

Uh

15-17

i would say

i tried like 5-6 times

[ionic fern]

Jeh, stuff dies fast there.

[jagged pier]

mwahi you still pugging btw? because the higher i try and pug the harder im finding it to get invited to keys 😦

[ionic fern]

I haven't done any serious pushing for like a month or probably more.

[jagged pier]

yer but you were doing 20s no?

[ionic fern]

There are like 5 keys on alliance at 20's

[jagged pier]

true

[ionic fern]

Hence why i'm going horde.

[jagged pier]

just i get invtied to 18s ez the moment i sign for a 19 no luck

🤷

[ionic fern]

Jeah, it's a bit unfortunate.

I've also gotten declined from 19-20's

But it is what it is.

[glossy wave]

i cant really get invited, thats why i always do my key

[lofty widget]

man it sucks that ppl are going horde cause there are no alliance, just furthering the issue 😦

[ionic fern]

Jeah.

[jagged pier]

come play panda master race

as its best race on horde

[ionic fern]

I 100% agree with that @lofty widget .
But i'm playing this game to have fun..and fun for me is doing higher m+..and i just can't do that on Alliance as much as i would like.
If i had more time to play i could probably find a dedicated group on Alliance but due to time constraints i'm forced to pug..and for that horde is better.

[blissful root]

I feel like people are still sleeping on prot warriors, have to be honest I still did the same 'till last week

[ionic fern]

People have been sleeping on prot for a while now.

[blissful root]

Think it'll be better in a few weeks when the big streamers pick it up

[ionic fern]

Prot and Guardian both.

👀

[blissful root]

Mh, Guardian not so much, people know they can't die

https://raider.io/characters/eu/kazzak/Nivsvp

This guy made me realise how good prot is in 9.0.5

When he did some +16s on ilvl208 with ease

And I was on my healer and I barely had to heal him

[ionic fern]

Smh.
208 is high for 16's.

[jagged pier]

☝️

[glossy wave]

Pretty sure a good tank can do that with full 0s gear

[ionic fern]

Prot is really good in the right hands.
But unfortunately it is also really punishing in the wrong hands.

[blissful root]

Yeah that's the good thing about a DH

Can't be bad if all you need to do is press fiery brand

[ionic fern]

I've had the misfortune of healing a lot of bad prot warriors.

Like playing with a BDK.

😂

Only that they can't selfheal back up.

And then i get yelled at when i'm trying to help them improve.

Smh

[blissful root]

Playing with a BDK really requires you to have the WA for it haha

I always got flamed by our DK for healing him too much

[ionic fern]

Jeah, it really takes a lot of getting used to.

[glossy wave]

Just track runic power, thats about it

[blissful root]

Yeah that's what I said :p

[glossy wave]

you don't need a wa to track runic power

[blissful root]

You don't need a WA for many things but it sure makes it easier.

[remote hawk]

Just played around with my hymnal trinket in a heroic dungeon for my calling. I really would love to get a 226 of that shit xD never had one so only seen the talk about it lol

[jagged pier]

my 194 does the same damage as my 226 decanter maybe slightly more tbh

[remote hawk]

it's soo sweet. But Feels bad to replace a 220 stone legion or the 203 BsS trinket for it. Even tho i guess in 15s it should be fine anyways lol

[tidal quarry]

I still haven’t managed to get a Hymnal 😢

[jagged pier]

it was up yesterday

or sunday

[remote hawk]

yeah

[tidal quarry]

In eu? Damn.

Is it up often?

[jagged pier]

no

thats why u check the wqs in bastion daily

[tidal quarry]

Haha. Big F.

[outer spoke]

I had it 194 and disenchanted it, is it that worth, to play with it? I am using for 15s spires trinket and scale cause dont need to kite anymore 😂

This week ok, need to kite because of sanguine

[mental scarab]

Scale and hymn for pumping

Still havent had scale drop

[jagged pier]

194 hymnal does the same damage as some 226 trinkets

would be better than emitter

i mean i run phial and decanter /hymnal in 17s and below as i dont feel like i need scale

[feral dock]

should i play with bolster instead of agression management, while not having a legendary?

i plan to craft reprisal as my frist legy to get more shield block uptime.

[ionic fern]

In general yes.

[feral dock]

as soon as i have reprisal i can switch to aggression management i guess?

[mental scarab]

Bolster feel to good to stop using

[ionic fern]

If you play properly around Reprisal then yes.

[forest fern]

Heh ticketing blizzard to have the talent name officially changed to that, sounds like a employee relations course “aggression management” 🙂

[feral dock]

how do i do this? initiating combat with charge, intervene whenever possible, heroic leap out and charge back in as soon as sb runs out or is on cd?

[ionic fern]

I wrote about it in the Icy Veins Mythic+ section "3.1.1. Using Reprisal in Mythic+"

So you can check it there . 🙂

Shameless self promo, huehuehue

If you have any additional questions after reading it feel free to ask them here. 🙂

[feral dock]

okay, thanks. i'll check it out 😄

[orchid frigate]

what kind of nomenclature do you guys do when you call out which portal youre taking on mueh'zala? im used to front left, back left, front right etc

but some people use top left (which is front left)

etc

[past grove]

Casting Shield Block Icon Shield Block right after Charge Icon Charge is essential as it will put one charge of Shield Block on cooldown as fast as possible.
I might just be overtired but wouldn't that be wasting uptime though? Using it as the original 4 seconds from charge Expires would bring the first charge back up again 16seconds later which is after 2 SB uses and intervene?

[trim nova]

the buff from shield block stacks FAR past 6 seconds, idek if there is a cap on buff duration

[lofty widget]

it's capped out at 18 seconds

and bolster is on a different cap so you can have 18 sec+15 from bolster=33 seconds of block if you play bolster that is

[past grove]

I need to change my weakaura then. I never actually checked buffbar just gone off what I did there, used with 4sec duration left put my WA back to 6 seconds

[polar hamlet]

I use front left, stairs left

Etc

[orchid frigate]

hmm maybe clearer that way

to say stairs

[supple fable]

i need to get used to playing a tank where dps and defensive abilities are more rigidly separate

my other tanks are paladin and brewmaster where they're a lot more tightly intertwined

[jagged pier]

revenge is a defensive mobs cant hurt you if they are dead

[supple fable]

revenge needs a better visual or something

it feels bizarrely limp compared to other rotational aoe chonkers like shield of the righteous, keg smash, thrash, etc.

so if you're using reprisal, do you always take "best served cold"

[amber herald]

yes unless it's purely ST then you take booming voice

[twin vine]

I would love an updated visual on reprisal only way to tell if it’s connecting is floating combat text

We

Not reprisal

Revenge*

Maybe a cone/arc on the swing that shoots out in front of you as far as the range is

[solid cairn]

yeah i don't really know what is the area of revenge

Should be great to have a visual on it

[twin vine]

Feels bad trying to group a pack, pressing the button and seeing it whiff on something standing just out of range

Also tends to be whatever a dps decides to blow cds on too lol

But that’s just my luck

I’ll just taunt while charging a prio target to not risk whiffing revenge

Switched from brew I do miss rushing jade wind and spinning crane kick sometimes makes grouping brain dead

[supple fable]

yeah a visual would be really useful

but tbh my complaint is more on the game feel factor

the animation and sound just feels like a whiff even if you hit everything

[strong forum]

Tell that to fury

Swish swish swish swoosh swish swish swish

[supple fable]

idk fury's audio design still feels solid

[twin vine]

Cleaving a rampage feels pretty decent

But whirlwind is meh

[strong forum]

Revenge is aimed from your position, so if you whiff it, it's on you for facing the wrong way

The range yeah is not telegraphed at all

But it's alot bigger than melee range

Almost TC range

[twin vine]

The range telegraph is the main issue yeah

If you’re backpedaling and there’s something in the back that wasn’t interrupted or whatever

[fierce field]

as somebody alting war after playing brew... not sure I know exactly how far it's going, i can certainly see the impact of my Kegsmash ><

[steep reef]

Hello, I got a question about ignor pain, the shield abord o l'y thé i coming damages right ? If I got a dot and build some shield with IP, that won't absorb the damages of the dot right?

[lofty widget]

IP will absorb whatever dmg youre taking after you apply it, whether that be a dot or melees or something else

im using the same WA and mine is still working? alternatively plater has a function that will put targets on the nameplates in the same way this WA does

[steep reef]

Ooookay thanks for the answer, so when u know that u will take a dot, u try to build some shield before

[lofty widget]

funilly enough the only place mine doesnt work in first boss in top LOL

[inland raft]

Should work i used to use it but now i just have plater set up to show target on nameplate

[weary python]

What haste % should we be aiming for? 20% then dump the rest into vers?

[lofty widget]

whatever your highest ilvl pieces allows you to have, there is no set % we need in any stat, only ilvl

[inland raft]

No real figure, more haste feels nicer but stack ilvl then take whatwver haste and vers can get

[weary python]

Gotcha all right

Hoping my vault will treat me well today

[lofty widget]

just in case mine is different https://wago.io/y5Rb-O80h @wraith knot

[steep reef]

so even between a 220 ilvl haste/vers and 226 not bis stats u choose the 226 ? I need to check my gear tho haha

[astral whale]

armor and stam are going to give you more survivability than 6 item levels of secondaries

[steep reef]

okay i see, was really missing that, thanks a lot

[jaunty pendant]

how is prot doing now

[lofty widget]

great

we were always doing pretty good tho, tbh

[jaunty pendant]

i've been absent for like 2-4 weeks so trying to get back in the swing of things

[steep reef]

yeah prot going well those days

[lofty widget]

with reprisal we feel really solid since we can dish out some real dmg and be defensive at the same time

[steep reef]

@lofty widget u playing kyrian or nl on ur prot ?

[lofty widget]

i am kyrian

[steep reef]

I choosed NL for my team but feel so bad to play

yeah gonna switch to Kyrian too

[astral whale]

if you want fun, go NF for giga damage

[steep reef]

hahah truuue

but more looking for survivabilty than damage tbh

[lofty widget]

kyrian is the more defensive of those two

[steep reef]

yup seems prttey solid

[fierce field]

i was tempted to go NF... but really was eyeballing the phial, plus I don't have a kyrian yet 😄

[jagged pier]

join the ppl with thic thighs brudda

[fierce field]

though kyrian plate is so... oof on vulpera

[jagged pier]

i just run CN mythic set cause all covs have shit armour

[astral whale]

NF cov set basically turns you into groot

[ionic fern]

Who even uses transmog.

Full on vanilla style.

[astral whale]

aren't you a bear now?

[ionic fern]

No, i'm a cat.

[astral whale]

even better

[jagged pier]

[steep wraith]

I can't remember, is spear target capped like AA is?

[steep reef]

yeah, 5 target

[lofty widget]

dmg is, not the tether

[strong forum]

Spear is softcapped to 5 then drops off like usual

AA is hardcapped to 5

[steep wraith]

Is the dot from spear also softcapped?

Or just the initial hit

[strong forum]

Haven't looked into that

I'd assume so

Yeah the dot also has dropoff

[steep wraith]

Thanks. Was debating between kyrian and nf, currently venthyr as I was DPS main spec, but it's not that fun in m+ as prot.

[strong forum]

Well actually it's hard to tell since the log doesn't show the dmg events on the small adds

[steep wraith]

Don't really like the idea of a big pull where AA only hits half the mobs

Again, I assume the ground effect and knockdown from AA is capped to 5 mobs too

[jagged pier]

it is

[blissful root]

Just curious by the way; How are you all feeling about Prot Warrior for the next tier of the expansion? Do you feel like you'll still be the "B-Tier M+ tank" for lack of better words, or feel like you're going to get closer to the meta?

Recent changes seem really well and the legendary changes seem like such a fun playstyle change

[signal plover]

Based on what 9.1 info?

[blissful root]

There is none

[signal plover]

Theres your answer

[blissful root]

Not really

[signal plover]

You can speculate all you want based on "recent changes" but it's best to not look forward to something we know next to nothing about

[steep wraith]

I think reprisal made warrior kinda too good. Just very few of the pushers have a warrior geared with it to play....yet

[jagged pier]

we've always been good if played correctly tbh so saying are we going to be better next tier i dunno we've always been good

[signal plover]

Warrior was good in 9.0, reprisal and aura tuning changes have made it more fun in 9.0.5

[jagged pier]

🤷

[blissful root]

There's nothing wrong with making conversation 😉 It's just a "how do you feel" since there's nothing set in stone

[signal plover]

I mean conversation is different than asking if we feel we will still be at a particular spot in a tank meta

[ionic fern]

I'd say currently warrior is solidly in Top 3 for m+ tanks. 👀

[signal plover]

We're not rly even sure what the seasonal affix will be for 9.1

[fierce field]

but asking "how do you feel about 9.1" might as well be asking "how do you feel about pwar in 10.0" 🙂 right now.

[blissful root]

How do you feel about prot war for next expansion then? 😄

[signal plover]

Good

[steep wraith]

Block feels like it is 100% uptime now, so I think as long as face tanking and enabling things like flame patch to do more damage beats having 5% debuff, warrior should be up there.

[ionic fern]

As long as i have a shield i don't care.

[blissful root]

Yeah that's why DHs suck 😦

Just better shield mogs and we're set

[fierce field]

ugh, one of many reasons 🙂

[steep reef]

nah, not moving add do not get you 5% damage overall

I was watching Naowh making some maths about it, and you still loose damages

[blissful root]

Anyways sorry, I could have probably phrased the question better. I'm just trying to feely-craft how the next set of gear-scaling will affect warriors on the current build.

[steep reef]

but are those damages needed to time the key, probably not until very high key

[signal plover]

The gear scaling thing is mostly a myth

[jagged pier]

☝️

[ionic fern]

Higher ilvl gear also comes with k-value changes.

[fierce field]

at this point, i can't stand vdh or bear... going to keep mixing war and brew up

[ionic fern]

"Next tier gear" is probably more proper in that sentence.

[blissful root]

Well I could have probably phrased the previous question better as well. Reee
With gear scaling a +20 key will relatively be easier than it is right now. Of course the "rio meta' will shift to +25-30 keys by then too.

[fierce field]

either way i'll be helping my physical dps peeps vs my magical ones.

[signal plover]

I think it's more the incremental borrowed power gains through expansions than gear scaling.

Things like additional legendary effects or more soulbind traits

Or whatever route they choose.

[fierce field]

we'll likely see a more depth to the soulbind trees

[ionic fern]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/changes-to-mythic-scaling-on-the-8-3-ptr-base-season-4-scaling-k-value-dungeon-301907

[fierce field]

wasn't there also a change during BFA where the target for loot went from 10 being best to 15? or am I remembering things incorrectly.

I seem to recall early on in BFA only caring about +10 for best chest drop

[signal plover]

Yeah it was +10 for capped weekly chest for uldir at least

I thi k it went to 15 during BoD

[jagged pier]

nah i think final season was 15 when KSM mount came in i think

[blissful root]

@ionic fern See, it always helps to try and chat in class discords. Learn new stuff everytime 🙂

I never knew 😦

[signal plover]

You're prolly right I legit mentally blacked out most of early bfa

[ionic fern]

Believe it or not but class discords actually know a lot of things. 👀

[lofty widget]

is there any way to show reflect damage in logs?

[ionic fern]

Enemy->Damage taken->Ability that was reflected

[blissful root]

I have this so much too, re-ran some BFA raids for mogs and I was like "Have I ever been here?"

[signal plover]

Oh believe me I've been there lol

Was an interesting time for raid recruitment

[lofty widget]

i may have stumbled upon a juicy reflect in theater

[strong forum]

Looks a dps spec reflect

[lofty widget]

nah its my reflect

only warr in party

[ionic fern]

I thought that reflect was known already. 👀

[lofty widget]

didnt see it in the sheet

[ionic fern]

🤷

But it's a RNG dot iirc

It casts it on a random party member

[lofty widget]

if you charge the dude with reflect up you get it 100 % of the time

[prisma bear]

intervene reflect wont work on it right? even if you do it before?

oh nvm i thought it was the kul'tharok dot

[thin brook]

hi

how good is prot warrior for raiding and m+ ?

[jagged pier]

been good the whole exapnsion

[uneven mason]

Very stonk much slapping

[thin brook]

is the rotation for prot warrior hard to learn ?

[signal plover]

How flippery are your hands?

[uneven mason]

charge > ss > revenrevengrevengerevengerevenge

hit SS when it lights up

keep SB up when you're being melee'd

not so much a rotation

not like we're a DPS

[thin brook]

is kul tiran the best race for warrior tank becuse of versa ?

[uneven mason]

🤮

alliance

also versa is a meme

unless you're doing keys that fall into the obscene + arena

KT would be best though because of that self healy thing iirc

but they're not

Dwarf/DiD

be best for you Prince Simps

[sick sentinel]

ive read the pins and just getting back into tanking so i want to double check
is reprisal still the best go to legendary?

[uneven mason]

yeah

for M+

raiding its a tossup, between reprisal and The Wall

[sick sentinel]

thank you

[supple fable]

How do you recommend using intervene for repirsal?

Mouseover macro? Target nearest ally?

[uneven mason]

I Use clique

[supple fable]

Neither the icy veins or wowhead article really talk about how to make good use of reprisal

[amber herald]

I use mouseover and a nearest ally macro

[uneven mason]

its kind've self explanatory

you charge and get rage and SB and Revenge!

you intervene and get rage and SB and revenge!

[supple fable]

Sure but is it worth trying to take extra procs by kiting for charge?

[uneven mason]

it sorta uses itself.

[tame jasper]

What do you use for buffs? Shadow oil or weapon stone?

[uneven mason]

I mean, thats up to you, do you need the extra block, as in - you're getting beat into the dirt

[supple fable]

And is there a way to maximize procs in single target / bosses

[uneven mason]

whatever I have in my bags at the time, its not worth splitting that hair

[uneven mason]

depends per boss

[supple fable]

Like charge on the opener is self explanatory, but I feel like there’s nuance in maximizing it outside of the opener

[thin brook]

how good is prot warrior to learn while leveling ?

do it has a lot of buttons ?

[uneven mason]

Sadly Mwahi works under the assumption that anyone playing prot warriors has a minimum number of 🧠 cells

so he doesn't write out every step for every boss.

[uneven mason]

Not really, its pretty easy to learn while leveling. Takes some pre planning in higher levels though since we're 100% proactive with our damage intake

[supple fable]

That seemed a bit uncalled for, assuming i read your tone correctly

The writers go into plenty of detail on other subjects one would think is self explanatory.

As a beginner, I’m asking in earnest how important is cheesing extra charges with Reprisal outside of the opener, and if there are any general tips on doing so

[uneven mason]

To maximize procs you'd utilize leap, or intervene to create distance

now if you use intervene to create distance for charge, you waste a proc of Revenge! but that is ok if your goal is SB uptime

[jagged pier]

i mean Ikar isnt wrong a lot of us have zero 🧠 cells

and just ZUG

[uneven mason]

ZUG

[mighty cairn]

you’ll find places to naturally use it but don’t need to go out of your way to run/leap around for extra charges

[uneven mason]

if you're pushing the limitations on your gear is the only time you'll need to maximize the uses though.

Since most M+ runs you should run Stormbolt anyway, you'll rarely waste a charge of charge as you engage with it

[supple fable]

Gotcha. I find some opportunities to charge in most bosses and encounters with stuns or casts creating distance

Is storm bolt that much better?

[uneven mason]

running a Hpal, MW monk or a melee DPS in dungeons creates easy intervene

[mighty cairn]

storm bolt is op

[lofty widget]

stormbolt is yuge

[jagged pier]

I run DT tbh

[uneven mason]

Storm bolt is a ranged stun, lets you stop them Necrobolts from killing you.

[lofty widget]

youll find that youcant really utilize the second charge of charge very efficiently

[mighty cairn]

DT is way more fun though

i’ll admit

[lofty widget]

thats the case for me at least

[uneven mason]

I find that creating distance to use the 2nd charge, many times you take more damage because of NPC spread and some always endup slapping you in the butt

[wild hemlock]

LETS SEE ALL THE SCALES I STILL CANT GET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[uneven mason]

So instead I just yell at my DPS to grunt harder so the packs die before my initial 20s of SB fades

[mighty cairn]

gotta keep the mobs in flame patch 😉

[uneven mason]

oh god don't get me started

with hunter/mage/whoeverthefunk crying about "BUT MAH DPS"

especially on necrotic and grevious weeks

same mage who cries about that but won't group in so the leapers stay put

[supple fable]

shield block duration staks right?

[uneven mason]

yes

[lofty widget]

yea

[uneven mason]

up to 18s

[supple fable]

aight so like righteous

[uneven mason]

but actually mitigating damage

[sick sentinel]

Tell your mage he should treat it as a melee class most of the time anyway because of breath and NF covenant aoe range 😄

[supple fable]

eh shifting power has big range lol

[uneven mason]

so many FoTM mages

[supple fable]

and yeah i don't trust lfg mages anymore

[uneven mason]

I cannot wait for the meta to become "fluid" like Wowhead tries to say it will

[supple fable]

80% of the time they don't break 4k overall

[ionic fern]

Shouldn't trust LFG anything tbh.

[sick sentinel]

If you are standing far out enough that leapers are an issue, then you are out of range for hitting at least some mobs with shifting 🙂

[lofty widget]

fluid?

[supple fable]

idk i think people overstate the meta, especially when forming 15 or lower groups

[uneven mason]

where you can use different comps to acheive the same goals

[ionic fern]

😂

[lofty widget]

lol

[supple fable]

i think utility is too lopsided for that

[lofty widget]

as if

[supple fable]

moreso than damage output im

imo

[uneven mason]

yes they do, but it influences community perception which makes lower end keys a nightmare

You're not wrong, but right now keys are hitting the upper ceiling of what is possible with damage

and right now only 1 class can output that damage

so everything is built around supporting that class

[supple fable]

tfw people expect me to give them PI and fae guardians on my shadow priest because "that's the MDI strat" when we're an uncoordinated pug and i do 2k more overall dps than them

x_x

[ionic fern]

I want that PI. 😦

But i never get it.

[uneven mason]

same

[ionic fern]

Feels sad.

[supple fable]

fire mage combust is kinda mediocre if you aren't actually pulling around it

I work very hard to be the best dps in the key so i can keep my PI tyvm

[uneven mason]

Like when I get asked why I'm not necrolord "It helps the group more"

so I slap and tell them I'll go necrolord when they can do more damage then me

[mighty cairn]

the only time i’ve ever experienced PI is killing the muehzala spirit with my healer in DOS

good times

[jagged pier]

i have never been asked this

i still get havent seen a prot warrior before

[supple fable]

when i rolled my warrior up a friend asked me if i was going to brandish the simp stick

[uneven mason]

had a pug boomie in a failed 16 ToP

[supple fable]

D:

[sick sentinel]

I play mage main and I'm always like why am I suddenly casting so fast when a pug priest decides to PI me for a change 😄

[uneven mason]

and he was crying that he'd do more damage if I had been NL

[mighty cairn]

necro feels way too awkward to use

even in our premade with a boomkin

[supple fable]

dude shit mages i get

[mighty cairn]

nothing seems to line up after a while

[supple fable]

combust's value depends super heavily on pulls and actually takes a brain cell to perform

but shit boomies?

i'll never understand how people fail at that spec

[mighty cairn]

boomie utility is op

[uneven mason]

they expect it to be a king AE spec "Its meta"

[mighty cairn]

but rewrite is knowledge to use

requires*

[uneven mason]

its the utility (trees vortex typhoon) and the ST Burst

[supple fable]

sure, but the basic damage tools are super simple

relative to other specs

[uneven mason]

Boomkin are in the meta because their ST Burst for Prideful

[mighty cairn]

sanguine last week would have been awful with a boomkin in comms

[uneven mason]

on top of all that other utility

[mighty cairn]

without*

[supple fable]

but also my starting reference point is shadow which is

like

excel spreadsheets of dynamic rotation and spell priority

like have you seen the icyveins rotation guide for shadow

it's

ridiculous lmao

[uneven mason]

Not as bad as the Feral Druid chart in early Cataclysm

[supple fable]

https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/shadow-priest-pve-dps-rotation-cooldowns-abilities

here are 4 different 15 step spell priorities

that you need to move between based on target counts

meanwhile starfall go brrr

[storm temple]

Also Cata shadow was pretty complicated actually

[sick sentinel]

As a fire mage the single biggest variable to my damage is tank and pull pattern, outside of occasional major screw-ups, and wildly affects the overall. There is only so much you can actually do once you get the combust rotation down.

[supple fable]

yup

[polar hamlet]

Boomies dont use convoke on prides Right?

[cloud tide]

best covenant for raiding?

[polar hamlet]

They use it on bosses

[jagged pier]

any u like

[storm temple]

On the NL issue, agree on the positioning problem, so usually my ret/enh melee gets it

[supple fable]

tbh in lower keys where tanks aren't pulling aggressively fire mages aren't even amazing

[mighty cairn]

you need it on some prides in high keys

otherwise you just die

[uneven mason]

high key prides have to die

they deal so much damage that can't be avoided so Boomies convoke on them

[supple fable]

it depends on the affixes and timings

and what other cds are availible

[polar hamlet]

Hmm okok

[uneven mason]

you can survive boss mechanics most of the time

but prideful there is no "avoid the bad"

[mighty cairn]

prides scarier than bosses

[jagged pier]

yer in my 20 necro i reviewed im at there watching a hunter sit on trueshot as we are dying to a prideful

[mighty cairn]

is what i’ve learned in 19/20s

[ionic fern]

Skip pride where you can, ok ty.

[glacial skiff]

Is there not a haste/vers shield you can get somewhere or am I blind?

[supple fable]

my favorite is people sitting on cds on the 1st prideful of de other side

you know, the one with like a 40 second walk afterwards

[uneven mason]

lol

[lofty widget]

skip the first mask and get pride for that imo

[uneven mason]

that would throw timing for hakkar off yeah?

[spark mortar]

Any tips for timing the Halls of Atonement out there? Starting to get really frustrating with it slipping out of my hands by a minute or so each time. 😦

[uneven mason]

invis skips

[sick sentinel]

Big pulls 🙂

[supple fable]

don't do the jump down after 2nd shard of halikas

i am so glad routes evolved beyond that

[jagged pier]

just do the dungeon correct with no mistakes

[supple fable]

i HATED that pull

[lofty widget]

nah, run past mask 1 and do skeletonpatrol + 2 big guys, the run back towards hakkar and kill mask on the way

[polar hamlet]

Jumping down is shite ye

[gentle oak]

for warrior I found that hoa is actually one of the hardest, since magic damage on this dungeon is really really high, so make sure your dps friends have their interrupts binded 😄

[jagged pier]

why do ppl jump down ewwww

[uneven mason]

HoA - take the stairs rather than jump down, pull the 2 "gate" guards + 9 dredger dudes, then the 2 side packs + dog patroll near the boss (Skip the 5 pack in the middle)

[sick sentinel]

Also running into the second shard + casters with no pride or no nothing up is also pretty horrible, which rather often happens for some reason.

[uneven mason]

invis skip the upper courtyard but pull all 3 bats on the stairs up before the boss to make %

[supple fable]

i prefer 2 bats + the 2 goons by the stairs

[uneven mason]

yeah

that works too

[ionic fern]

HoA is such a hit or miss dungeon.
It's either really easy if people interrupt or near impossible when no one interrupts.

[uneven mason]

"Stun the hound master, stun her stu...fuck RUNNING!"

[ionic fern]

Jep.

[polar hamlet]

What key lvl would you say inv pots are mandatory? 15s and higher ?

[ionic fern]

And then you also see ranged DPS'ers standing in range of the big dudes AoE.

[uneven mason]

never mandatory

[ionic fern]

Ok then.

[polar hamlet]

Kinda used to playing druid.. never used them

[supple fable]

if the healer is good then that's fine

[uneven mason]

I Mean certianly not 15

maybe 20+

[jagged pier]

if the group is good enough its never mandatory, but they make keys stupidly easy

[polar hamlet]

Yeh

[ionic fern]

There's literally no reason for them to take the damage.

[uneven mason]

If your healer doesn't have to heal "standing in stupid" that means they can DPS

[polar hamlet]

Ill buy some anyways

[ionic fern]

Why on earth would you take avoidable damage just cause "bruh,im too lazy to take 2 steps backwards"

[supple fable]

but to dps they'd also need to be in range unless there are other targets

[uneven mason]

My healers get pissed when people stand in bad because it means they have to stop spamming lavaburst

[ionic fern]

Only pally needs to be in range.

[supple fable]

or can you outrange while still being in hit range

[sick sentinel]

Mage needs to be in that range during the combust if u wanna hit shit with shifting, but that's what you have alter time for.

[uneven mason]

or use holyshock for actual healing.

[supple fable]

isn't the range on thrash like 40 yds?

[uneven mason]

OMG trying to explain alter time to some mages ><

[ionic fern]

If you're standing in range of that aoe on like a +20 key fortified you're just inting as a ranged dps.

🤷

[supple fable]

well yeah, in that situation the healer wouldn't be fine

[sick sentinel]

Yeah well, i havent pushed past like 18-19, so I dont pretend to know how it works in high keys 🙂

[supple fable]

ye that's about my range these days too

[wild hemlock]

ele shaman on the same kind of scope but as bad as that. woof.

[supple fable]

is it though?

echoes rotation is pretty simple

you don't even need to deal with motes once the packs are 5+ enemies

at least from what people say on the ele discord

at least as far as m+ goes. the raid rotation with icefury is too much for me lmao

idk where they find the gcds

[uneven mason]

there is a reason why I only heal on my shaman hah.

last time I was mainspec elemental was TBC

"Cast Lightning Bolt"

[strong forum]

I always wanted to play ele, but I was always defaulting back into resto in tbc and wrath

[uneven mason]

Rotations too big brain for me

Yeah ended up maining that shm for our BT Progression because we needed the healer ><

but "stack Mp5, slap chain heal"

was ez rotation too

[supple fable]

you should try echoes + aftershock and primal elementalist in dungeon

i find it quite simple and relaxing

[uneven mason]

I do resto with the earth quake lego

[supple fable]

that's fun too

[uneven mason]

shit gets rough - earth elemental that pulses AE damage

chunkachunka

if only it had the same CD as trees

[supple fable]

should be a talent to reduce the cd imo

or a conduit

that's one thing i find super weird about ele shamans

how low impact fire ele feels

even with primal elementalist

[tender oak]

Just tried doing a m+ for the first time as prot and it was the most awful thing I've ever experienced

[supple fable]

weird question

[dull zinc]

well ur doing it wrong then @tender oak

[supple fable]

could one make a weakaura that displays the number of targets that will be hit by Revenge based on your position?

i feel like i could use a little help getting a better feel for the hitbox

[hot oxide]

whats the mythic night fae soulbind we want?

[supple fable]

cause the ability's visuals don't help

[lofty widget]

uhh you could probably make a proximity one, but not one for "in front of you"

i wouldnt know how tho, sadly

[supple fable]

i feel like i keep whiffing with revenge

i've gotten to used to shield of the righteous on my paladin with the bulwark leggo that gives it 30 yd range u_u

[lofty widget]

the range isnt very big, maybe 5-8 yards or so, but it does swing in almost 180 degrees

so if mobs are hitting you, you should be hitting them with revenge too

[solemn magnet]

Korayn

[uneven mason]

first strike hnnnngggggggggg

[hot oxide]

face your foes, or first strike?

[ionic fern]

First

Strike.

[solemn magnet]

First strike

[uneven mason]

25% Crit big slaps

[hot oxide]

whats the endurance condiut you guys used? i was thinking unnerving

[uneven mason]

UF or stalwart

I use both

[hot oxide]

gotcha, thank you

[wild hemlock]

i would say ishhh. SK lightningbolt 2 targets. chainlightning on 2 targets without SK. mote SK when u can. mote EQ when u can on 5+. gets a little wonky

[supple fable]

idk i feel like the only complicated thing about ele shaman in m+ is learning when you start/stop using flame shock and lava burst

at 5+ targets i think you stop thinking about motes altogether

[wild hemlock]

yeah true not nearly as bad. im just thrilled for no sanguine and EQ this week hahahaha

[supple fable]

but the core rotation is pretty simple, and with echoes it doesn't even vary that much between single and multi-target

[wild hemlock]

i went from 6.5k last week to 6.1-6.3 at tops lol

[supple fable]

you're alternating between shock and quake either way

it does take a hot sec to get used to maelstrom economy though

[tender oak]

How does one go about learning how to tank initially? I am a solo player with no friends in game and constantly wiping pug dungeons feels like shit

[supple fable]

the whole rotation clicked a lot better for me when i realized i could use primordial wave + lava burst to go from 40 to 60 maelstrom after using earth shock

so i can pop motes EQ right away

tbh you can start by just watching other tanks as a dps or healer

[wild hemlock]

i do awful watching other tanks lmao. Quazzi was my savior on youtube

[supple fable]

maybe it's not the best place to start, but i've learned a lot from watching other tanks in groups

[boreal merlin]

I’ll be your friend. 😄

[ionic fern]

Start by reading a guide and understanding your abilities.
After you know how to play your class it all comes down to dungeon knowledge which is obtained via running dungeons.
There are some dungeon "guides" also that tell you who does what etc that are worth checking.

[wild hemlock]

watch some quazzi vids before bed every night once you learn your class

[boreal merlin]

Honestly there are commentary runs people do and it’s with learning routes and what to look out for. Any other thing people over looks is MDT addon when setting up a route you can right click on the mob and it will tell you the abilities they do. A little bit of reading goes a long way.

[solemn magnet]

If you're still leveling, treat normal mobs like dungeon bosses using SB and all your same defenses. It can help you work out your openers without the threat of dying.

[tender oak]

I have been reading guides and I've done the dungeons plenty as dps looking at routes and such. I am just insanely bad mechanicly and constantly wipe because being the tank just doesnt have the same room for mistakes

[signal plover]

Then keep practicing and start looking at why you are dying

I'd recommend starting to log your m+ runs and posting them here for folks to look at

[stone sonnet]

do you suggest legs or feet for reprisial?

[signal plover]

Legs for most folks

If u have M SLG on farm then reprisal on feet is better option for this tier

[boreal merlin]

The other thing is Prot warrior tanks are about negating upcoming damage. Most other tank classes is a bit more forgiving when not having metigation up during a swing

[uneven mason]

Rather, other tanks are just as unforgiving when you don't perform their abilities properly, prot warriors however, are 100% proactive in our ways of dealing with damage. While other tanks take more up front damage, then recover it by self healing.

Also what level of dungeons are we talking about Tommy?

[tender oak]

low lvl m+ like +5

[uneven mason]

Are your DPS performing mechanics properly

This Expansion thus far has been frustraiting for many tanks because we can tank until we're blue in the face but if DPS are not doing mechanics they'll die and wipe

stuff like interrupts, knowing what not to stand in etc..

[tender oak]

I am the one that dies first so its not on dps

[uneven mason]

That isn't a mutually exclusive case

If you're dying to say, being nuked by casts

thats on the DPS for being shitty at kicking spells

[tender oak]

I am just bad, but warrior being unforgiving makes sense. Nothing I will be able to play most likely and since playing pug as dps warrior is completely impossible I think I am forced to give up on my warrior for now