Biggest strength Kyrian has over Night Fae in keys is that most DPS/Healers are non-Kyrians meaning that you would get the benefits in NW/SoA.
#protection
fringe marten
Yeah; I do think night fae is going to blast better in keys...but an additional self heal, ability to cure necrotic..lots of other effects you're also going to like. The mobility of fae is super nice since we are in a kiting meta at the moment (once you get to any key strength that's a challenge for you to push)
ionic fern
In general jeah.
Tho Spear is not target capped.
fringe marten
And you rarely get to use spears 'crow control' utility...where as you will always benefit from the 'stun' that ancient aftershock provides.
People say 'oh you can tether with spear" the fuck you WON'T..that's among your first couple globals when you engage a pack when it's up.
ionic fern
It kinda depends.
Since i like to keep Spear in certain packs..e.g the Flies in MotS last area..or leapy boys in NW/ToP etc.
But outside of that it's used on CD jeah.
Rarely for the tether.
๐
fringe marten
But you see the general idea here; there's some bigger drawbacks and lots of times when either necro or venthyr don't get full utility or aren't as good...where as you're going to get full mileage out of everything Kyrian and Night Fae bring to the table in ALL content.
We're also about to get bump in durability; and a bit of a 'balancing' (Re: SHAFT) on Demon Hunters.
So Stand n' Bang will begin to creep back into even slightly higher keys now (still not the 20's and beyond..that's still full on coward zone)
You know that sharp sick feeling you get in your lower guts when you get hit in the nuts? That's what kiting makes me feel... Thanks Blizzard.
golden zephyr
alar+scale of trinkets?
surreal sinew
it's a solid combo
golden zephyr
SLH + scale ?
surreal sinew
also, only run alar on keys i'm not comfortable on now
marsh aurora
i'd use alar as a defensive cd instead of an "oh shit"
marsh aurora
like in DoS i'd do smth like first pack scale shield block, and second pack i'd pop alar
cause i'm too lazy to kite
fringe marten
Scale is just..great. The alar trinket is for really angry keys..and it is quite useful. It's so useful that a trinket that's doing nothing for 8 minutes at a time..is STILL worth using over stuff that would give you a lot more damage or even healing/etc.
wet socket
is gluttonous spike any good? ive run it for a few keys just til i got my SLH and the overall healing from it in dungeons is actually fairly high up. Dno if better than SLH tho
fringe marten
Glut spike is Crap (normal) OK (heroic) Quite good (mythic 226)
surreal sinew
spike is decent, think hereldary should be better but never got it
marsh aurora
I use it when running lower keys for the aoe cause i don' have any other dps trink
wet socket
aye my spike is mythic, slh is heroic right now. Still havent dropped that fuckin scale :/
fringe marten
The glut spike is crap until you get the mythic because the healing on it becomes very good; and the damage is not awful..so on the whole it becomes a solid defensive'ish trinket.
I did dos 17 last week or? this week? this week? ..and got scale, insta pumped it to 220. very nahce indeed.
surreal sinew
anyone know if the alar trinket can do lethal damage btw?
sweet summit
wdym?
fringe marten
To a friendly? ? maybe? the aoe on it is very small.
sweet summit
yes it can kill allies
sweet summit
tank killed me on slg prog at least once with that 
fiery wing
with was for a greater good chill
fringe marten
I don't think I'd use it raiding, since yeah..you'll have a cotank on top of you a lot of the time.
surreal sinew
yeah i usually wouldn't
but for fresh pulls i find it nice to have a second chance
fringe marten
Generally speaking though; if the tank/s are dying they are making mistakes..or the raid is making mistakes causing healers to die/etc.
Not always the case; on say...council of blood; if you just wanna sacrifice yourself to kiting a gargoyle or tank it 'longer' but once you revive that gargoyle is still a terminator (they die quickly, or are juggernauts)
fringe marten
I can see some value there; but really if that gargoyle has been up a long time; it has to either be..being stunned by the dance, or about to die..or you're kiting and boss gonna' die. Because that bat don't play.
surreal sinew
helped avoiding a os from high stacks, but for sure i won't be running it on sludge tonight
fringe marten
Yeah the gargoyle is like "ohh he ain't so bad.." 1, 2, 3 sintouched blades "woo man need some externals.." "add dies near him...enrage" "/salute"
blazing condor
"aight im bouta head out"
fringe marten
Yeah when he's at a few stacks of sintouched blade, and gets the enrage buff... it's the old Everquest kobolds "you've ruined your own lands, you won't ruin mine!"
unique tree
I got 203 Flame of Battle, which gives 528 vers for 12secs on 1.5min cd. is this better than the 2min cd mythic barghast leash even tho its 23ilvl lower? especially because the dmg redirection is weird.
sweet summit
almost everything is better than leash xd
blazing condor
hate when u got dog trinkets like that being overshadowed by low ilvl ones
me want big numbers
gaunt dawn
^
ionic fern
I never open the end dungeon chest or the weekly chest so i'm never dissapointed.
Just be smart.
blazing condor
Ive simply decided to not use gear anymore so as to never care about my drops
ionic fern
๐
Best way.
Should do a key with just the shield and a weapon
Wonder how that will go.
sweet summit
no trinkets allowed?
sweet summit
๐
ionic fern
Now only to find people who won't notice that their tank has no gear.
sweet summit
sounds fun
raven ledge
Is Bolster working correctly? My block chance doesn't increase when I press Shield Wall
sweet summit
bolster is last stand
raven ledge
thanks, I'm dumb xD
weak snow
what is the highest aoe talent setup for leveling? ๐
sweet summit
devastator-best served cold-ravager-anger management
weak snow
do i ever use whirwind?
ionic fern
No.
sweet summit
mwahi do you believe in the bonegrinder dream
ionic fern
Always.
sweet summit
shut summit
๐
sweet summit
blazing condor
is it wrong to hope i dont get a 226 scale in vault just because i had to do 20 DoS this week to get the 220 one
id rather get stygia tbh
surreal sinew
226 scale is the dream
lime urchin
226 scale is the dream
I had two in a row in mah vault. Made me sad ๐ฆ
serene rock
do u guys take double time or stormbolt for m+?
surreal sinew
i got two 
modern brook
bolt
modern brook
doubletime w/ reprisal is considerable
serene rock
doubletime w/ reprisal is considerable
yeah i was thinking the same
blazing condor
I like using double time but i feel like storm bolt holds more value overall
Double time is just nice for me as a tank lol
surreal sinew
yeah, bigger damage potential too for more Revenge!
serene rock
might give both a go
and see which i prefer
what about the ravager row?
is into the fray better when ur haste is low?
surreal sinew
ravager in m+
might not feel amazing but you're probably better off going ravager anyway
north rampart
Quick Q, whats the dealio with that last aoe fiesta room in HoA?
sweet summit
kill everything asap?
north rampart
Aggro the miniboss or not?
surreal sinew
he will as soon as you hit anything, and you need to hit stuff
sweet summit
on low tyrannical keys with big burst people you can zugzug big guy and ignore adds
astral crystal
miniboss aggros when you do damage to the monsters in the pews
sweet summit
youre a tank, you want aggro on everything
north rampart
Do one set of benches / quarter room at a time?
sweet summit
idk we just split it up
one dps for one corner
one for the other
starfall go brrrrr
north rampart
I jump arpund trying to keep aggro? Or let some mobs hit dps and puuuuump?
sweet summit
both 
plush tendon
depending on key level and if its Tyranical, you can always just burst down the one guy
but if you have a boomy in your group, they might be looking at those adds and going 'wow, free DPS'
ionic fern
Except if you pug.
There's always that one guy who goes "LOLOLOLOLO TIME TO PAD TO MAKE UP FOR MY 3K OVERALL!!!"
plush tendon
^ always the caveat
I dont pug enough, except yesterday during our shadow priests and demo locks quest for Ruby in the ToP
ran 10 ToPs yesterday : ^)
plush tendon
I was grinding that last bit of renown for first strike, and also trying out AA
plush tendon
and also finding out I apparently need Friendly with this other Night Fae rep so I can be a Lion Soulshape
plush tendon
I'm 29 renown for like..2nd or 3rd week in a row now.
You are either galaxy brain or lack the strength of will to do what is necessary... cant figure out which
modern brook
smh
imagine needing to be alion soulshape instead of needing to leave ur furry ass cov
๐
ionic fern
You are either galaxy brain or lack the strength of will to do what is necessary...
I lack the inspiration to do it.
๐
surreal sinew
best spell ever
modern brook
I lack the inspiration to do it.
its ok you have till july
ionic fern
What happens in July?
plush tendon
To be honest, if there was direct damage tied to Conquerors Banner or if it affected the whole group, then we'd be in business
ionic fern
I'm not going to lie..i am slow as hell with these types of grinds..although this one isn't a "grind" as it's fairly easy to reach 30+.
surreal sinew
my only satisfcation with banner was watching a ret friend os people in arena
that was it
now i get to do the os with aa
ionic fern
"Banner sacrifices a random team member to increase your damage by 50% for X seconds".
I'd be necrolord in a heartbeat.
sweet summit
plush tendon
WURF
plush tendon
honestly, now im swapping my DK back to Necro (me like that Cov, so i need one) so I need them to do something to Sinfall Brand so its not dog for my VDH or my angry red bear im gearing now better be the shit
plush tendon
yea, I didnt care for convoke
ionic fern
I'm NF on my bear so i can boomy convoke and hope that i don't die.
modern brook
"Banner sacrifices a random team member to increase your damage by 50% for X sec...
the button conundrum brought to wow.
reef jolt
Should I use Thunderlords on Feet or hands ?
sweet summit
you should use reprisal
lime urchin
Perhaps we can pin an overview with what gearslot gives most stats
reef jolt
I dont wanna use reprisal tho
lime urchin
something like Chest > Shoulders > Head etc (I am not sure if this was the correct order)
sweet summit
Chest >= Legs >= Head > Ring = Amulet > Shoulders
= Boots >= Belt = Gloves > Wrist > Cloak
plush tendon
I dont wanna use reprisal tho
dont knock it, till you try it. But if you dont like it, The Wall is better
also, booties for Thunderlords if you really want it for some reason
ionic fern
OR...do it like the mages Necro ability..turns you into a bone mage or w/e.
But instead of a lame bone mage it turns us into Saurfang and replaces all our abilities with "Cleave".
sweet summit
and bonegrinder
strong forum
Ravager causes an additional earthquake effect
Thunderclap turns into fire dmg just because
surreal sinew
for bonegrinder to work you need to proc a bladestorm with ring right?
surreal sinew
oooooooh
strong forum
Ravager works for some reason
sweet summit
for some dumb reason
ionic fern
and let us cleave like them
No one cleaves like Saurfang.
plush tendon
When you intervene someone, they get piled drived to the ground cause you were going so fast and causes a earthquake at their location
surreal sinew
i tried with ring and thought "well there's no way this is worth it "
plush tendon
No one cleaves like Saurfang.
I dont know man, BFA kind of ruined Saurfang for me
surreal sinew
is it more interesting than revenge then with ravager down? compared to SoF?
modern brook
fwiw fury and arms get shieldblock and shield slam for some reason
warped cave
and ip 8)
plush tendon
IP is ok for them sometimes
modern brook
ip is hella good for them
warped cave
ip is great
plush tendon
DPS loss though
modern brook
so is hugging the ground tho
modern brook
also gives them a lot of survivability in pvp
turns out just halving incoming damage every 12 seconds is pretty worth the rage in pvp
languid flower
I always thought they could just simplify things and merge WW and revenge
since you'll always use one and not the other
distant crystal
anyone progging M sire happen to have a log where a soak doesn't get soaked? ๐ฎ
distant crystal
ff
modern brook
damn they really let you die to melee erga ๐ฆ
sweet summit
yeah idk healers asleep i guess x)
distant crystal
furiously pulls up death log
spirit of limit_max standing over your shoulder "don't do it moron"
sweet summit
modern brook
๐ u mean u dont know what killed you???? ๐
nah bro its the only thing left for me to click
distant crystal
i caught myself doing that in our sludgefist prog ๐ฎ then i thought back to greeding fel dev on the pillar
distant crystal
i was supposed to be a moonkin main but i swear we've had like 7 different tanks on prog kills this tier
languid flower
Yeah we do
distant crystal
imagine having a 6.8K dps simming moonkin and being forced to play your DH on council and sludge prog
sweet summit
only 6.8k?
distant crystal
the two best moonkin fights where dps matters :*(
languid flower
uhh...
distant crystal
hey man i was playing ketchup that's my third main
sweet summit
xD
languid flower
why are they the best fights for moonkins?
distant crystal
cause they pump the waiters and the pillars
plush tendon
Boomies big brain
plush tendon
Luckily for me, I may be 'forced' off my Blood DK for Sludgefist to my war if we drop our token war
sweet summit
sludge is so sad
plush tendon
yea dude, you bring battleshout
strong forum
CA+Convoke+100% damage taken
Isnt it 200% even
plush tendon
Mists First Boss with multiple balance druids
strong forum
Hpal + balance druid = free win
plush tendon
Hpals are ridiculous
strong forum
Funny almost
plush tendon
The hpal I run with spends Holy Power on SoTR
strong forum
That hpal is so good because of their damage
distant crystal
mists first boss with disc priest and multiple balance druids
plush tendon
but hes Kyrian
languid flower
I like how the warrior is so far down and yet still got a 93 parse
distant crystal
that was waaay before corruption
plush tendon
really.... when?
distant crystal
if i had to guess i'd say it was a cleavy fight in WoD, not my pic tho
ripped from the spriest discord
plush tendon
damn, I forgot
plush tendon
Top Kek
plush tendon
you just have to add all the battle shout extra damage
so take 5% from those DKs, a little from that hunter over there, maybe some from that ret
strong forum
Player 5 popping off!!
urban tusk
bench inc.
strong forum
I wish I was player 5
sweet summit
jokes on you
strong forum
I'll never be as cool as him
strong forum
If we can progress bosses without monk, I'm sure your guild can kill bosses without war buff
grizzled nova
Is it intended that you lose the avatar buff when exiting combat with a boss?
sweet summit
you dont ๐
grizzled nova
I do.
grizzled nova
I only really notice it while mog farming, but the avatar buff goes away when you exit combat with raid bosses.
light thicket
Unless someone here whispers to his raid leader...
sweet summit
oh my rl isnt dumb
and ive never noticed that
but if its just after raid bosses dies, its not a big deal
urban tusk
kick one of the tanks, be prot, be gud. case closed.
light thicket
We can say he was talking shit about his rl
Get him benched in like 2 secs
I mean
No
We would never
grizzled nova
but if its just after **raid** bosses dies, its not a big deal
I just don't understand why it would be happening at all.
grizzled nova
What behind the scenes logic is there to remove buffs when a boss dies?
strong forum
Is it intended that you lose the avatar buff when exiting combat with a boss?
Pretty sure that has to do with Nyalotha where warlocks abused the short respawn timer of a boss to stack insane amounts of CDs by quickly resetting him
So they made it their buffs didn't prolong after they exited combat
distant crystal
and DH's got the pre-meta
that they do in every keystone that contains a havoc dh
plush tendon
dont forget Unholy Army ๐
distant crystal
were they doing army on Raden too? lol
did they just get like 1.25 armies on pull or did it stack w/ itself
distant crystal
but yeah destro locks were starting the pull with insane grimoire stacks
uneven mason
Understood - Warlocks are the reason we can't have nice things.
strong forum
Probably
modern brook
I only really notice it while mog farming, but the avatar buff goes away when yo...
Killing a raid boss resets everything im p sure
same way resetting refreshes blood lust; only you won
wet compass
I'm just praying our ww doesn't ditch I don't want to play brew okay with swapping back and forth between prot war and vdh as needed
strong forum
Just go without
distant crystal
yeah monk buff is kinda ok to lose really
i think ele is the only caster that does physical dmg
but like every melee does some magic just about
then again, WW pumps
modern brook
didnt they "fix" it?
sweet summit
they ""fixed"" it then fixed it and buffed it
modern brook
oh you right actually
Gunna start reporting a bug every time a monk kills me in world pvp
sweet summit
distant crystal
yeah they buffed monks and mm hunters after the bug "fix"
modern brook
fuck hunters tbh
sweet summit
i agree
modern brook
Its "doesnt deserve it" personified to a class tbh
modern brook
i tried to play a shaman until i had a rotational button on 6
and i was like yeah no im done
sick sentinel
Is night fae definitely bae?
sweet summit
i cant even count that high
modern brook
1 2 condem
uneven mason
Shaman - maximum effort to do middle pack DPS
sweet summit
night fae does own
uneven mason
amazing
plush tendon
I think Shaman are actually up there TBH
modern brook
NF == nerd flosers. fact
plush tendon
night fae does own
I have confirmed this to be true
uneven mason
"Best damage output rotation requires you to grow 4 more fingers"
Is ele/enh in a nutshell
plush tendon
yea, but the abilities all look pretty good
very flashy and visually entertaining spec
uneven mason
I prefer "Chainheal turret"
plush tendon
and the shaman TMOG is on point
uneven mason
I saw that "Chain heal heals your primary target for 15% more" and immediately asked that conduit to marry me.
was like, can just spam CH at the tank like its 2007, sounds good!
plush tendon
I have to beg for heals from my Holy Paladin now
literally using all of his Holy Power on SoTR
plush tendon
and you know where his Holy Shocks are going
distant crystal
stack haste to the ceiling at the expense of everything
and pump out chainheals
had to wear a hit cape because that was the highest haste option in 10man ICC
distant crystal
no?
uneven mason
yes
distant crystal
absolutely not
uneven mason
1000%
modern brook
Oh no
distant crystal
i'll die on this hill
distant crystal
if WCL existed back then i'd post logs showing you're wrong
and no, mana wasn't a thing lol
distant crystal
once you got a solace you were gucci on mana 4eva
distant crystal
and do less healing
distant crystal
less, it's even in the name
uneven mason
and there wasn't a ton of raidwide damage
distant crystal
what do you think the L stands for smh
uneven mason
unless your raiders were flipperhanded monkies
and stood in bad
Then I could see CH being better, because of padding vs bad
distant crystal
damn i just visited worldoflogs.com for the first time in like 15 years
uneven mason
I hope you wore protection
distant crystal
but i can't figure out how to search a character lol
jesus it feels like the site is worse than it was back then
uneven mason
I'd say, since it was basically abandoned to whatever malware spewing monster about 8 years ago
distant crystal
maybe they want me to get premium to be able to search, fuck all that
i'm behind pihole and ublock come at me bro
but am i reading that right, somebody is currently livelogging 25N icecrown
what in the world
looks like Uldir is the last raid they even attempted to get ppl to use their site for lol
uneven mason
looks like they're frozen in time
distant crystal
man i don't even know what i'm looking at here I'm seeing healing rain used in some of the top logs for BQL on this site
uneven mason
4.0 prepatch
when they converted a ton of crap to mastery
and shaman mastery scaling was bonkers in prepatch
like iirc, HR would crit tick someone for 50% of their health
if they were low enough,.
distant crystal
ahh i ditched the game before prepatch
didn't realize HR even came out then though, thought it was much later
uneven mason
it was Cataclysm
shaman got their "puddles" in cata (HR for resto, Giant Smash Cookie for Ele)
distant crystal
yeah when i came back to cata i wasn't playing sham
bear/hunter/mage/spriest boy then
distant crystal
hey we dodged too!
uneven mason
doge'd
distant crystal
and shifted cat form whenever possible to do like 75% of a cat main's dmg
uneven mason
But prot warriors in 4.0, sweet sweet single roll mastery block
tame jasper
Do I unterstand this arcticle about Hakkars Blood Barrier correct, that Spell Reflect and Shieldwall helps to reduce Barrier HP, but not Absorb like from Scale? https://www.wowhead.com/news/mythic-dungeon-boss-breakdown-the-difficulty-of-hakkar-in-de-other-side-321605
uneven mason
yes, because absorbs are processed as damage done by the ability
distant crystal
absorbs are just healing
uneven mason
eh, depends.
distant crystal
damage redux reduces barrier
uneven mason
Stuff like Spikes on Frieda consider absorbed damage to be reduced to 0
so its wonky that Hakkar's shield does not
distant crystal
weird, but i'd say frieda is the wonky one really
uneven mason
Basically that article is about "Why is this math so strange, and how did the 6 year old get into the programmers chair?"
distant crystal
but yeah i always tell the dps that their personal cds are basically dmg cds on that fight
tame jasper
yeah it seems so
plush tendon
They basically need to take all the bosses in De Other Side and bring them out back
plush tendon
you are entitled to your opinion, but its wrong and you should feel bad
granted my favorite dungeon is probably is the Theater so....
sweet summit
DoS is fun when you get to ardenweald 
uneven mason
ToP being favorite, so you enjoy car batteries and clamp screws?
plush tendon
I enjoy the jumpy guys, easy charge targets ๐
uneven mason
Skeletor on Tyrannical is a legit wall
plush tendon
also, spell reflect on last boss
uneven mason
in higher keys
plush tendon
you are not wrong
the dungeon is a pain
XD
but I like it
though it wouldnt be my top choice as a dungeon I would try to do my first high key on
I just enjoy 4/5 bosses in there; skeleton boss is meh for tank
uneven mason
OH, basically all the boss abilities are
very easy right until they're not
its like a tipping point for most groups around +16
you either have the damage to kill him fast, personal CDs to survive his shit, or you dont
plush tendon
Yea, not disagreeing with you
chilly brook
@jagged pier so I think I'm starting to warm up to reprisal
Still dislike the playstyle but I think I'm feeling decent about it
chilly brook
its like a tipping point for most groups around +16
Just uhh did ToP 16 last night wasn't that bad
uneven mason
Ok, you probably don't play with what qualifies as "Most groups"
jagged pier
plush tendon
Ive run 10 ToPs over the weekend
we are now pros of that dungeon and have seen some crazy stuff
A couple of arcane mages from Azarlon, sprinkle in a survival hunter in there, double lock Shadow priest comp
a boomkin forced to play resto still reading tooltips
deep steppe
sweet summit
uneven mason
Why are bads taking him to keys.
plush tendon
Why are you taking bads to your keys?
was queing with a demo lock friend while I grinded renown, so whatever the gods threw at us
uneven mason
is the better question
chilly brook
Why are bads taking him to keys.
plush tendon
I will say, we timed each one handily
but it was totally worth it; the last one I ran I finally got first strike
uneven mason
was legitimately no healers on in my guild lastnight so I was the only one running keys on a 180 rshm
WTB healers who like to M+
sweet summit
65k
plush tendon
WTB healers who actually heal in M+
sweet summit
165k
uneven mason
You should pay me 145k to even consider such a thing.
distant crystal
tbh i should charge more as alliance
chilly brook
but I'm alliance
plush tendon
Less competition, smaller market
distant crystal
๐
uneven mason
less competition, because no market.
short kiln
Yo @chilly brook would love to see a new video on one of your M+ runs like the last one you posted now that you have Reprisal running well. If you had the time and desire to do that anyway....
short kiln
I've learned a ton from this discord in the past week, and your video you posted really set that off for me.
chilly brook
short kiln
Been running dungeons well before my iLvl should let me and still feel like I'm hanging
chilly brook
That's awesome dude, love to hear it
short kiln
I honestly find that I'm hitting points where I'm getting into panic mode though and rotation.fury gen/block cds get all fuckered.
so I'm hoping to learn how to be more effective at Charge/IV in order to keep the juices flowing
chilly brook
Just comes with practice
chilly brook
I'm still doing that with the transition back to being a tank if it makes you feel any better
Just gotta analyze you're play, realize that maybe you didnt need to blow everything there and adjust. Slowly you'll get more comfortable in bad situations
short kiln
I ran 2 DoS yesterday, and the first one felt really smooth. Had a 64% Uptime on SB. Second one was a shit show. Checked SB time... 52%
it's a huge difference
plush tendon
plush tendon
Ideal play with Reprisal, you should be zooming around
short kiln
right. Which I was not doing nearly enough
I think because I'm still so new at the game, I'm having trouble evaluating 8yd distance
short kiln
but I moved to using the Charge/IV combo macro which someone posted earlier this week and that has helped some
languid flower
but he did it by walking into them face-first
strong forum
That's how most people ninja, not being aware of aggro ranges
uneven mason
but he did it by walking into them face-first
Legit had a survival hunter in my DoS yesterday do this, and I was like W A T ? ? ? !
I took a risk
and it bit me
He literally ran right into the 2nd caster pack
while I was trying to get on the other side of it so I could urn
languid flower
I've never seen that before from a hunter. pet? sure. barrage? of course
trying to headbutt them into being CC'd? That last one made me chuckle
mild jolt
hey. small question.
i have a 220 power cristal (on use Crit)
and a 213 Gluttonies Spike
i obtained the Tank Trinket(194, allready at upgrading progress) from De Otherside. is it worth to Eq the Tank Trinket and switch the Spike, even if the item lv is still lower?
languid flower
I like my spike
mild jolt
yeha, scale
uneven mason
I use a 171 scale over other trinkets on my guardian
I'd use a 171 scale on my warrior
if I ever was able to loot even that
languid flower
I actually saved myself the headache and ditched that group
it's incredibly rare that I do that
uneven mason
WTB Vendor who will trade 5IQD for scale
languid flower
maybe 1/70 times
mild jolt
but is the los of STR worth the shield?
After the recent buffs im come back to my prot warri since start SL so i need to get in again ^^
plush tendon
If you have a scale, you use it; trinket is so good
languid flower
but when I intentionally skipped the sludgebelcher to the left of the first boss (because they pulled an extra mob), and then while I'm pulling the boss they're pulling it, I'm out!
uneven mason
yes loss of str is worthwhile
its a snap aggro/dmg buffer on pull
which addresses some of our weakpoints
languid flower
like we hadn't even gotten to the hard parts yet, and ya'll are already fucking it up this bad
mild jolt
ok. But would you then replace the spike, or the power cristal ? Cristal is 220 and i only can upgrade on 213 so far
uneven mason
in combination with reprisal we're just downright scary with em
uneven mason
like we hadn't even gotten to the hard parts yet, and ya'll are already fucking ...
I flat out left a DoS 15 when we got to the first caster pack in front of hakkar and I got 2 interrupts off before I died not a single other interrupt was used.
THats a big flag of "this isn't happeneing"
uneven mason
nah
uneven mason
Oh the 2nd pack, yean thought you meant the 2nd caster pack
plush tendon
its made more scary due to the fact everyone blows their load on the pack right before it
uneven mason
infront of arden
languid flower
yup
mild jolt
thanks or the advise so far ๐ have a good day
uneven mason
I was like "Nah, that has an urn"
plush tendon
naw, second one is fine
people saved CDs for that
its literally the combination of no CDs, no interruots
blazing condor
people BL and burst all their burst on the first pack
obtuse prism
so because im special - is the vanguard thing working yet or is it tomorrow?
I felt I was less squishy this weekend but then again i was running 6/7s for the scale
light thicket
but a facepull!
Never EVER underestimate a hunter's desire for fucking up in new and interesting ways
They take their ninja pullin science very seriously
chilly brook
@uneven mason had a super racist chinese dude in a DoS yesterday
He joined
BM hunter
First question
"Can I play survival?"
It was all downhill from there
chilly brook
I dont even remember all the dumb shit he said
I just remember saying before the last boss, "Hows whinnie the poo?"
And the dude went ballistic
light thicket
I mean you didnt get to the racist part yet
chilly brook
I mean you didnt get to the racist part yet
He was just saying a bunch of stupid shit basically just mocking us the whole time
chilly brook
whiny the poo is kinda offensive but legit
Only offensive if you think saying someone looks like a cartoon is offensive lol
obtuse prism
Only offensive if you think saying someone looks like a cartoon is offensive lol
you have to take into account that he is the equivalent of god over there
chilly brook
While playing survival?
Nah we put the key in and started before he could try pulling any stupid shenanigans by swapping specs
chilly brook
you have to take into account that he is the equivalent of god over there
I thought that was North Korea
obtuse prism
I honestly don't believe china is much different, but I could be wrong
most dicktatorships were like that
obtuse prism
yes they are :)
chilly brook
Never know what you're gonna get
obtuse prism
my fav are the ones with moms playing with their kids
chilly brook
Also had a 1700 frost dk troll the hell out of a mists key
We were gonna CC the inspired mob on a tender pack
He yolo pulls it
uneven mason
did he go full goku?
chilly brook
Flips out because we didn't kill the inspired mob
uneven mason
or fail?
chilly brook
And wipe
Because necrotic
Well ya see
His bright idea is "just nuke the inspired mob down 4head"
"Cant stop him from healing back because the tender dumbass"
"The heal isn't instant"
.......
uneven mason
(โฏยฐโกยฐ๏ผโฏ๏ธต โปโโป
lilac sleet
just use kick, 5 head
chilly brook
(โฏยฐโกยฐ๏ผโฏ๏ธต โปโโป
It's even better
He popped slappy hands and pulled the vulpine into us
uneven mason
๐ฑ
languid flower
So you get to design a new defensive rage dump to replace ignore pain. What do you design?
modern brook
ignore painer.
obtuse prism
reduce ignore pain rage cost by 80%
chilly brook
I do think it doesnt make much sense for IP to cost as much as it does when we have to hit revenge to actually do any damage and as a result keep threat
modern brook
nice defensive spender 4head
obtuse prism
and it only absorbs like 7k dmg or so? like so tiny
modern brook
frankly ip is fine
ppl just crutch on it then complain it doesnt support their weight
winter dune
So what's the basics behind the Reprisal legendary gameplay? Trying to maintain shield block up most of the time?
obtuse prism
charge in -> pop sb -> intervene -> pop sb -> jump out, pretend you are kiting, then charge back in and repeat
winter dune
Sounds fun
languid flower
yes, keeping shield block up and getting free revenges
this way, we don't have to spend critical early GCD's deciding between threat and defense
chilly brook
ppl just crutch on it then complain it doesnt support their weight
Well realistically it doesnt make sense in our rage economy
languid flower
we get the defense for free, and the threat is cheap to start with
modern brook
sure
languid flower
honestly, I'd rather dump my rage into gold
chilly brook
It really just doesnt make sense though
chilly brook
Double the cost of revenge and also very not that effective tbh
And we've been moved into punching revenge a ton
Which means our rage economy has shifted
So tbh I'd like to see IP be more effective in terms of the mileage you get out of it per rage spent or just reduce the rage cost
winter dune
I'm liking prot a lot tbh. I have a VDH and it's fun and all but pretty two dimensional. Either you spike or you Fel Desvastation.
uneven mason
calling VDH two dimensional is an insult to all paper.
Its like an infinitely finite point
modern brook
So tbh I'd like to see IP be more effective in terms of the mileage you get out ...
making ip too efficient turns us into brew master with repeater macros.
uneven mason
I feel like I lose more braincells playing VDH than my younger days back when drinking was legal at any age.
uneven mason
making ip too efficient turns us into brew master with repeater macros.
Prot was still prot
in Legion
plush tendon
The most complicated part of playing VDH is figuring out when you are out of stuff and itโs a good time to leap away
uneven mason
3s CD on IP, make it 80% more effective vs magic
uneven mason
The most complicated part of playing VDH is figuring out when you are out of stu...
Good thing Demonic has a visual cue
chilly brook
making ip too efficient turns us into brew master with repeater macros.
It didnt in Legion
modern brook
yah it did
proof is all the 2 heads dying with 20% uptime on block
if ip's too efficient; playing the class right doesnt matter
uneven mason
?
modern brook
because spamming ip covers your bases
modern brook
๐ not the point
uneven mason
Having to spam IP when you have a DoT on you doesn't feel like good gameplay
it feels like shitty design on a bandaid ability
that is unnecessarily punishing/expensive to use
modern brook
play a different class then ๐คทโโ๏ธ
uneven mason
other classes are worse
modern brook
sorry ignoring every other source of damage istn enough
chilly brook
Having to spam IP when you have a DoT on you doesn't feel like good gameplay
Especially when it doesn't even feel impactful to push lol
uneven mason
Right
I'd rather IP have a CD but have a significant impact on our survival
but that is tank design in general since BFA prepatch'
we're almost 100% at the mercy of our healers/DPS
having proper gameplay
"DPS can't stun that DoT? Sorry, you're going to get chunkers"
Also, stfu rogue
"LOL Cloak
๐
modern brook
If u honestly think ip needs a buff ur playing like amonkey tbh
its not supposed to be the be all end all of mitigation
chilly brook
That's kinda the whole point
modern brook
and comparing mitigation now to mitigation in Legion which literally had "is block up" checks is kinda dumb
chilly brook
It's a shitty button
It shouldn't be so shittt
Thanks for making my argument for me
modern brook
no its a shitty button
compared to what you remember
froma different time of tha game
uneven mason
If u honestly think ip needs a buff ur playing like amonkey tbh
I don't htink it needs one, I think it just feels shitty to press ๐ as its very ineffective in situations where you need it
I was on the "IP on the GCD is fine" boat
kept the flippermonkies away from Prot
I think the most used line was "What else would you use that GCD on? Devastate?"
chilly brook
Just saying with the shifting of the damage profile
Something else in the kit that helps against the consistent non blockable damage would be very welcome
We're on the second round of tank buffs now
It's pretty clear there was/is a problem
uneven mason
Like, a damage button that also provides some sort of mitigation or healing that scales with the # of mobs we're facing
mightb e amazing
wanton condor
what non-heal based tanks deal that well with constant damage?
uneven mason
Literally the only non heal based tank
chilly brook
Define non heal based lol
wanton condor
thinking bdk/vdh
chilly brook
Bear
uneven mason
Bears heal quite a bit?
wanton condor
bear just has 3 billion health
plush tendon
But there only bearly better then war
deep steppe
But there only bearly better then war
plush tendon
languid flower
bears have 3 billion health, but they also heal for a third of it several times a minute
twin vine
My friend was pushing 15-17 keys with me as bear with like 208 Ilvl dude just didnโt die
languid flower
ah yeah, the other one
languid flower
is that the thrash shield that prevents it?
chilly brook
GUYS REPRISAL IS SO OP GUYS OMG DUDE BLIZZ HOW COULD YOU MAKE SOMETHING SO OP
obtuse prism
the only prob with bear tanks is that they are bears and might randomly attack you
chilly brook
is that the thrash shield that prevents it?
Ye
wanton condor
yeah, weird that their absorb shield doesn't count
chilly brook
I'm not salty obviously
wanton condor
but IP gets hit by it
chilly brook
Fucking llarold
languid flower
well, IP only blocks half the damage
thrash shield blocks all the damgae
so technically they aren't "hit" by it
wanton condor
ah
languid flower
like power word shield probably stops necrotic stacks too
so here's what I want with IP
uneven mason
like, Frenzied using the conduit is 33% of your HP + mastery
obtuse prism
pw:shield doesnt stop necrotic
chilly brook
Bear thrash lego that is
chilly brook
It literally just isn't affected
uneven mason
that
languid flower
wait, wait, are you saying that IP's effectiveness is reduced by necrotic stacks?
chilly brook
Yes
languid flower
like 40% reduction in the amount IP will shield?
uneven mason
mihgt as well just change it to "During Incarnation thrash makes you immune to all damage"
languid flower
holy crapman
chilly brook
The actual value of the absorb is
Not the damage transfer
But ye necrotic is supposed to affect all healing
Including absorbs
uneven mason
yup
chilly brook
The more immortal they are
obtuse prism
isnt swipe target capped?
plush tendon
Thrash aint
obtuse prism
omfg why???
plush tendon
and who needs Swipe when Thrash becomes a 1 sec CD
chilly brook
And thrash is their lol I dont die because absorb button
unkempt zenith
...thrash isn't target capped??? rerolls druid
obtuse prism
they should uncap our thunderclap
languid flower
AoE dots aren't capped
dont' worry, bears usually start out good during an expac
by 9.3, they'll suck again
chilly brook
...thrash isn't target capped??? *rerolls druid*
Have fun falling asleep halfway through the pull after hitting only one button
obtuse prism
bears don't have to maintain the iron furry thing?
unkempt zenith
i guess, id rather my buttons do stuff than be fun ๐
chilly brook
They do but I mean...
queen musk
want to go Prot for raids and DPS for M+ as arms. Which covenant should I go for?
uneven mason
not during incarn
chilly brook
You dont really think about that
modern brook
want to go Prot for raids and DPS for M+ as arms. Which covenant should I go for...
kyrian or nf
plush tendon
In mass AOE they are getting so much rage, you dont know where to spend it
chilly brook
want to go Prot for raids and DPS for M+ as arms. Which covenant should I go for...
Night fae
obtuse prism
ahh
queen musk
@modern brook ty mate
languid flower
@queen musk Whatever covenant you need for arms. There's advantages to all of them for prot
chilly brook
If you're gonna be dps m+ 100% Night Fae @queen musk
plush tendon
want to go Prot for raids and DPS for M+ as arms. Which covenant should I go for...
After much testing, go NF
digital hawk
I might be swapping from fury dps to prot warrior for my raid, was thinking of swapping to kyrian
modern brook
If ur gunna be dps m+ consider fury lol
amber herald
nightfae for arms?
uneven mason
fury
chilly brook
I might be swapping from fury dps to prot warrior for my raid, was thinking of s...
Just stay Nightfae
queen musk
would venthyr work for fury?
wanton condor
it's fine
modern brook
ven works for fury
digital hawk
Just stay Nightfae
im venthyr
modern brook
literally all our covs are fine
wanton condor
I like NF on arms because it means I don't have to run signet
digital hawk
dont wanna venthyr tank though
modern brook
NF has a fatty aoe button that ppl like
chilly brook
would venthyr work for fury?
Yes but night fae is literally a 1k damage increase in keys as fury
unkempt zenith
Venthyr works because Fury makes all single target do cleave
rustic shadow
Venthyr tank is actually not terrible, Condemn absorb is pretty nice plus a lot of extra threat on pulls
obtuse prism
Venthyr works because Fury makes all single target do cleave
cleave execute above 80%>
plush tendon
I can agree with that
median tulip
I tank as Venthyr
wanton condor
you can raid tank covenantless really
modern brook
biggest problem with venthyr is you're forced into show of force
and that conduit sucks dong
chilly brook
biggest problem with venthyr is you're forced into show of force
Wdym
modern brook
you wanna talk something that needs to be redone
chilly brook
Ashen bruv
plush tendon
After playing with Kyrian, NF, and Necro as Prot though I would recommend NF
median tulip
*All Warrior conduits suck
wanton condor
raid tanking is tuned so you can always have a DPS swap over if the tank falls asleep between pulls
modern brook
nah warrior conduits are kinda busted tbh
queen musk
I dont mind switching covenants and grinding the renown. I just want to be somewhat viable for both activities.
modern brook
prot potencies suck
digital hawk
I mean if I went prot I would also be pushing more keys as prot
queen musk
Need tank for guild raid runs but in my M+ team I have to be dps
because we already have a dedicated tank
digital hawk
don't think venthyr is good at all for keys
chilly brook
Need tank for guild raid runs but in my M+ team I have to be dps
Might fae
modern brook
ven is fine for keys
chilly brook
queen musk
Night fae it is then :0
wanton condor
Venthyr is best for keys if you don't have another venthyr already
plush tendon
^ this is true
chilly brook
don't think venthyr is good at all for keys
My guy Plka was top prot as Venthyr for the longest time
wanton condor
otherwise NF soulbinds tuned too gud
queen musk
We have no venthyr though. They all be necro + Kyrian
digital hawk
he was venthyr because he was dps in raid
median tulip
For keys Venthyr works fine, not least because Condemn pumps some chunky Single-Target numbers
digital hawk
not because it was optimal
plush tendon
We have no venthyr though. They all be necro + Kyrian
do you have a NF though?
chilly brook
he was venthyr because he was dps in raid
And because they didnt have one in his key group
modern brook
so the guy can offspec prot and still do better with a sub optimal cov
chilly brook
Didnt say it was optimal
modern brook
only thing that should tell you is the choice doesnt fuckin matter
modern brook
lol
digital hawk
so idek what you're saying
wanton condor
I think you need everything but a necro for keys, as while the necro buffs are nice they're not run making like spear/urns/stoneborn
modern brook
I think you need everything but a necro for keys, as while the necro buffs are n...
PF buff is literally a 2minute bloodlust
among other things
chilly brook
No shit its "not as good" but it's not so bad that you're not gonna be able to push keys....
wanton condor
wait seriously
modern brook
necro buffs are insane
wanton condor
did they get buffed
modern brook
no people are actually using the cov
wanton condor
huh
queen musk
@plush tendon yeah we have a NF. ( our lock )
wanton condor
I stand corrected
modern brook
actually pf might have been? IDR
plush tendon
<@!181600386941976577> yeah we have a NF. ( our lock )
in this case, if you dont have a Venthyr in your dedicated group, Venthyr is the right choice for you
modern brook
either way right now they're fat
chilly brook
so idek what you're saying
That your covenant choice is basically almost irrelevant to your ability to push keys effectively
wanton condor
I ran ele for 9.0.0 keys and I don't recall it being that good
tiny range and not that huge of a haste buff
chilly brook
tiny range and not that huge of a haste buff
Bro its 20% haste
digital hawk
huh okay
modern brook
its 15 yard 25% haste buff for red
wanton condor
that's the one going into the 2nd boss right?
digital hawk
didn't really come in here to debate
median tulip
Static M+ groups don't generally care what the tanks covenant is, because having the tank do the dungeon-specific covenant mechanics is generally a PITA
modern brook
Most irrelevant dungeon buff is NW
because they made the weapons not the dungeon buff for whatever reasons
plush tendon
and thank god for that
wanton condor
can you imagine if the weapons were the dungeon buff? Impossible dungeon sans kyrian
modern brook
yah dont get me wrong
Its funny af
but the actual dungeon buff in NW is ignorable
plush tendon
I would prefer if the dungeon buffs were less impactful then they currently are in some dungeons
modern brook
I mean free damage is free damage
median tulip
The NW Kyrian buff is nice, mostly because it allows you to save more weapons for later
modern brook
and yall are crazy on both counts
wanton condor
would rather be able to build a team without NEED KYRIAN
median tulip
I hate dungeon buffs
I agree, it's poor design
wanton condor
because then I have to PM each person or set them on ignore after they PM me saying "not Kyrian but big pumps!"
although not as bad as the guy who queued rsham and then started the key in enh
modern brook
every 5 stacks they can chain heal for free though.
wanton condor
we actually made it to the first shard before realizing something was off
median tulip
Given that someone healed a key with a Feral Druid, I'm sure there are Enhance and Ele shammies wanting to try it out
uneven mason
You don't have an amazing lego + CD that allows you to pump big numbers as enh/ele
median tulip
Chains of Devastation
uneven mason
you'll OOM in the blink of an eye
wanton condor
nope, free iirc
median tulip
makes it instant, not free
It makes Chain Heal free if you are Ele
wanton condor
not free for poor resto