protection

[night wadi]

has anyone used this in bg and successfully killed someone?

should do 50% dmg

in pvp

[wild sandal]

It only says fro arms nadija is better than the other 2, nothing for prot, unless I missed it

[brittle owl]

https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/protection-warrior-best-covenants-soulbinds-and-conduits

[north rampart]

Yo any tips for tanking heroic sire?

[hexed rune]

Mirror transitions and damage after second set of adds is high

[north rampart]

So pop SW when going through mirror?

[mossy peak]

it depends on what's happening

[hexed rune]

If you have SB up should be fine. And how many carnage stacks you have

[mossy peak]

honestly the biggest thing about tanking sire is just keeping in mind his snap mechanic

[hexed rune]

You don't need SW for P2 I dont think.

[mossy peak]

leaping around or doing odd movements can cause serious problems when he starts bouncing everyone in the last phase, as can taunting him

[hexed rune]

Communicate how you're going to move him and stick with it

[mossy peak]

because he will be on you

[hexed rune]

The teleport can be used to your advantage if you know how to use it

[north rampart]

SW for orb soaking? P3?

[hexed rune]

Damage management for sire is good for prot, just know when to hold off and pool, and when to pop

[north rampart]

Saw some videos of people tanking him on the ranged add?

[mossy peak]

that's all gonna depend on your group

he will always be on the active tank, so you can put him anywhere

[north rampart]

Ok i will try

And pointing his attack towards the ranged add? I heard some talk of this while dpsing

[mossy peak]

towards whatever adds

[blazing condor]

his wrecking pain shoots in a cone infront of him and can hit ads

giving them the damage taken debuff

[thorny wing]

Guys, whats your uptime in M+ with Reprisal? Im Stuck between 60-70%, people telling me it gives 80%

[mossy peak]

make sure you're still casting shield block on its own, and weave charges and intervenes more

[blazing condor]

intervene p much on CD and if you feel like it you can always shockwave > charge or leap out or whatever

[mossy peak]

you can intervene pretty much on cd, and use moments where an add is casting to run out and charge in even if leap is on cd

[thorny wing]

ye i use it on cd, with a weakaura

[mossy peak]

this week you can use spitefuls as charge targets as well

[prime kernel]

ummm, why do ppl craft Reprisal on feet instead of legs if u gain more stats from the 2nd one ?

[blazing condor]

some people have 233 from mythic SLG id guess

i havent done the math tho so idk if its worth

[prime kernel]

oh right, i forgot about these legs with tons of versa xD

anyways, since i dont think i could get these from myth. and i have 226 vers /haste legs from vault, it's gonna be feet for me aswell

[blazing condor]

only thing i can think of is that for future patches legs will still give more stats

but there's a lot of uncertainty there too

so its best to go for ilvl probably

[prime kernel]

i wish i could just go with the ilvl increase xD
both my legs and feet are 226 , but shoes have no vers, so thats why i think i'll craft that leggo in this slot
Now... i only need to get some replacement in my shoulder's slot , since i had no luck with vault there,

[mossy peak]

the slg legs matter, but beyond that, people really overstate/overvalue the difference between slots for the legendaries in general

[wild sandal]

Thank you man

[sleek dune]

i'm a little confused by spell reflection, does it reduce all spell dmg you take by 20% or just ones that can be reflected?

[north rampart]

Reprisal or the wall for tanking Sire?

[ionic fern]

If it can be reflected it reflects it and consumes the effect. Otherwise it just acts as a magic dr

[sleek dune]

Thanks, wasn't 100% clear from the tool tip

[merry sparrow]

Ive found the wall is a safe set option hey but reprisal can do well if you can weave the spells in for it, just tricky with some of the positioning in CN and sire

[acoustic ocean]

Hey, quick question not sure if it’s just me currently trying to push 18+ keys but the play style seems really messy, and I can’t work out if I’m just playing reprisal wrong or if it’s just how it’s gonna be; in out, in out, feel like I’m doing the Hokey Cokey, wondering it the wall would be better on the higher keys?

[rough needle]

using intervene on cd alone gives the effect of bolster and allows you to take am

so i would say reprisal is always better than the wall

[north rampart]

Thanks i think ill stick to the wall then, just want to get to p3 atleast

[merry sparrow]

The Wall with AM is great for getting your SW and Avatar back which is keys is great to have extra CD's but done well Rep can have a very very high uptime, its a bit of moving around with Intercept, hero leap charge and even just shockwave/stormbolt & running away and charging in but well worth gettin rep mastered because it proves way more help in the end

just requires you to be a lot more proactive with your spells/movement in my opinion, not a expert prot player so take with a grain of salt 🙂

[north rampart]

"Hey guild ive got a sire lockout lets go tomorrow it will be fun" what was I thinking!

[covert sentinel]

Do you like playing with reprisal? And do i need all that sb uptime when i have to Kite all the time? I mean...doesnt feel Like playing Tank, so why have the uptime..idk send help

[ionic fern]

Yes, i like playing with Reprisal.
Idk why you are kiting all the time.

Cause i'm not.

[lime urchin]

I don’t know what keys you are doing, but up to 17s I am facetanking even on fortified weeks. Except for some packs that is, like oda side

[grizzled nova]

even "some packs" can be face tanked so long as everyone is kicking the right stuff.

[lime urchin]

I still have to get used to correct use of reprisal, but I am enjoying the process, it makes warrior tonking even more dynamic.

[grizzled nova]

The hardest thing to legitimately face tank in dos is the two pulls with deathwalkers, because the bleed becomes untenable if you let it stack at all.

But the pulls with deathspeakers can be more less face tanked so long as all the shadowcores are getting interrupted.

[lime urchin]

Yes. I hope this answers MrRippchen

[mossy peak]

if anything reprisal lets you naturally weave in some mini-kites, if that's how you like doing things

[acoustic ocean]

I tried face tanking those adds on an 18 dos and they nearly destroyed me once cds are out, end up kiting them

[mossy peak]

intervene/leap out, hang out for a bit

charge back in

[lime urchin]

I still at least kill the rouge in mah team once per evening because I intervene him will big scary mob is cleaving

Maybe one day I will be a good tonk and stop doing shit like that

[mossy peak]

i've enjoyed scaring my regular group by intervening them while i or they have the prideful thing on them

haven't hit one yet

[acoustic ocean]

I guess it’s just a learning curve and adapting play style accordingly

[dark plover]

what do we craft reprisal on

[lusty ember]

legs

[dark plover]

yes i have read the pins

[night wadi]

legs

[dark plover]

what about the wall?

[night wadi]

shouildr

[dark plover]

ok cool thx

and what missives do we go for

[tame jasper]

haste, versa

[night wadi]

u get most str/stamina from these parts btw.

[dark plover]

haste versa for sure?

[night wadi]

yes haste/versa

being able to fast skills faster is important.

Versa is 2nd most important for dmg reduction

gotta aim to have 25% versa

at least for high keys

above 15

[strong forum]

You mean like for 23++

[tame jasper]

hm i think my warriro is at 17 atm 😦

[lofty widget]

you definitely dont need that amount of vers for 15s

[strong forum]

For anything below +21 vers is literally irrelevant

[night wadi]

how is vers irrelevant below 21 lol

[strong forum]

Cuz it's not? Just play well

[night wadi]

only way to further reduce inc magic dmg via secondary?

[strong forum]

If nerf can do 22-23s on his 209 pwar

I'm certain you can do 21s with 225 and 0 vers :)

[night wadi]

well if u want to factor in that all 5 players are that good then sure

[strong forum]

That's the whole point!

That's what m+ revolves around!

Not gear

Naming arbitrary stat requirements is just wrong.

It's 98% group play and group skill

[sand steppe]

I’m looking at rolling a tank for 9.0.5 and likely 9.1. How’s prot feeling with the buffs vs. DH?

[night wadi]

sure but let's be honest not everyone has groups that all play perfectly so mentioning a stat goal is fine

DH still ez mode

prot warrior high skill ceiling

[sand steppe]

I feel like 9.1 might hit DH hard though

[mossy peak]

stats only specifically matter in that way when you come up against actual mathematical walls

[lofty widget]

prot warr definitely feels good and is fun as well, especially with reprisal 🙂

[mossy peak]

for example guaranteed unavoidable one-shots, or hard dps checks

which would not be the case at the levels described

[sleek vine]

guys necro or kyrian for m+ ?

[lofty widget]

only go necro if you play in an organized group who actually benefit form the extra mastery

think thats the consensus

[mossy peak]

the benefit is somewhat dubious compared to what was originally thought when it was announced

if you don't have a specific reason why you would be going necro i'd say kyrian or nf for sure

[sleek vine]

im mostly pugging

[mossy peak]

definitely not then

[sleek vine]

so will stick to kyrian i suppose

okay thanks brothers

big pity i mained blood dk but i see that prot warrior is growing now

[night wadi]

kyrian has just so many + i miss it dearly

[mossy peak]

also unless you're doing super high keys it doesn't matter that much

[night wadi]

free bank, mail access etc

lol

[mossy peak]

if you really wanted to necro, you can still go for it

[lofty widget]

even at super high keys it doesnt matter tbh, i think all 4 covenants are represented in top 5 or something

or top 10

[night wadi]

talent reset + bleed removal

[mossy peak]

are warriors even represented in that level of key though

[sleek vine]

no im for sure not top keys player:)

on blood dk between 10-12 m + level

[night wadi]

warriors are in the top 500s

[lofty widget]

i meant the warrior top 10

[night wadi]

starting around there

[mossy peak]

yeah

[lofty widget]

so the class will hold you back before your covenant

[mossy peak]

so basically what that means

yes that

at the 10-12 mark it truly doesn't matter though

you can pick whatever one has the best mog and do perfectly fine

the difference in covenants will make absolutely no difference

[sleek vine]

thanks

ah and one more, talent build for m+ from icy or wowhead is viable or you have any other sources?

im running anger + ravager

[mossy peak]

with reprisal throw in bsc

[hollow yacht]

I'm actually here for the same questions lol. I'm going to give reprisal a shot. Thinking about running punish, BSC, and AM. Can't decide to go with force or ravager..

[sweet summit]

ravager

unstoppable force is still lacking behind both in damage and rage generation

[signal plover]

would also def play devastator instead of punish

[hollow yacht]

Devastator is just so damn slow...

[mossy peak]

not really

[turbid cargo]

use revenge more. doesn't feel nearly as slow then xD

[signal plover]

not at all tbhj

if you're cycling your rage the only time devastator feels slow is when you're conserving rage for big inc damage. and when that's the case it increases your awareness of what's going on

[turbid cargo]

^

[signal plover]

but honestly that's been so rare for me this xpac i only rly noticed small downtime periods on like M sludge

[turbid cargo]

also, not running devastator GCD locks you - meaning anytime you have to use something on the GCD, that GCD has a cost

[signal plover]

in m+ im always blastin

[wheat canopy]

hey im a noob to tanking. does shield block stack?

[sweet summit]

yes

it stacks up to a maximum on 18 seconds

[wheat canopy]

ah, that makes things significantly easier rather than trying to refresh at .5 seconds lmao

[nocturne sandal]

Jesus christ, i just did my first +14 with reprisal
It's so good O.O

Feels like playing vengeance

And it's going back to playing warrior like a pinball, love it

[wheat canopy]

also is there an addon i can get that lets me know when i can spel lreflect?

[remote tusk]

Check the pinned post in #ui-addons-manager

[wheat canopy]

ok thanks! 😄

[remote tusk]

Oh, nvm, for some reason it isn't added.

I use Marok's https://wago.io/SpellReflectionTracker

[wheat canopy]

oh awesome thank you!

[remote tusk]

But there is also the ReflectGuide pinned here.

[craggy pilot]

holy shit, just got completely wrecked in +15 TOP

cant stay up

while i did easy +15 TOP last week with Tyrannical

Fortified feels so fucking hard compared to Tyrannical

[signal plover]

hmmm ToP is one of our strongest dungeons

regardless of fort/tyr

how were the* groups interrupts?

fair bit of tank nukes in there

[craggy pilot]

when i pulled the shackled soul pack i just insta died

[astral crystal]

tell healer to press heal button

[craggy pilot]

healer was doing like 8k hps

[signal plover]

good place to SW as well

what ilvl?

[craggy pilot]

but man the Fortified + Grievous combo

[lofty widget]

when you are grouping them, have reflect up

[craggy pilot]

im 216

[lofty widget]

since the group is probably lining all the ghosts casts will go on you

[sweet summit]

did u stand in the swirly?

[craggy pilot]

but i felt like paper, while last week felt easy as fk

[sweet summit]

🤔

[foggy sedge]

Any prot warrior in rbg ? Smaking people spam stun and dragon knock and slow?

With tripple leap with 3sec stun

Im 1850arms rbg alt, want to try rbg lead and not being efc but being nasty vs enemy team, like a slow lock but worse lol

[wheat canopy]

i have absolutely no idea what you msut said lmao

[proud heart]

guys i wanted to change to necrolord mainly focusing in M+ but ive read in guides that its a dogshit covenant unless your party makes full use of it almost on cooldown

is it that bad even after the buffs?

[signal plover]

i wouldn't say dogshit at all tbh

[mossy peak]

it's not "dogshit" but it is worse

[signal plover]

but to get the most use of it you do need a coordinated grp

[proud heart]

i got a group of coordinated apes

[signal plover]

NF/kyr better for most i'd say but all 4 of our covs can be chosen atm

[proud heart]

roger

[mossy peak]

unless you're pushing a level of keys that warriors don't currently reach, covenant is not the determining factor

but i would advise nf/kyrian in general

that doesn't make necro bad, it's just not that great without coordination

also the buff with coordination isn't knock your socks off powerful

it's like 250 dps for the best specs in raid which would be st

not sure how that translates to m+

[proud heart]

hmm could be a bit more i guess depending on the class

im a big PoE nerd and i liked the idea of palying with a war banner

but i like to optimize too

so thanks for th einput

i wont make the covenant switch

[mossy peak]

new league when

[proud heart]

idk

waiting for the announcement

[mossy peak]

hit 36, now im just watching anime

[proud heart]

yah gotta get those rewards

[wheat canopy]

i've been playing venthyr -.-

[mossy peak]

venthyr is good for raid

it gets annoying in m+ but it's not like it's useless

[wheat canopy]

yeah unfortunately i do mostly m+ lol

[proud heart]

i hated venthyr so much, started really poggies but after 2 months or so

[mossy peak]

if it's mainly m+ a swing into nf or kyrian would be nice

[proud heart]

of hitting condemn 90% of the time

[wheat canopy]

yeah was thinking kyrian

[mossy peak]

kyrian for potion, nf for dammies

[proud heart]

as arms which is my main spec its lterally the only button you press

[mossy peak]

for arms it's less about what button you push and more about managing the fight so that you can push that button

finding things to condemn

getting sneaky ones in

[proud heart]

theres some really good nameplates

i was using one that made them shiny when could be condemned

not sooo shiny just a tad

[tame jasper]

AAfter running it for 3 days last week to get my 15 I find it quite simple, but SD is pain for me 😦

[signal plover]

SD is a pain for everyone

[outer solstice]

tbh I like SD

HoA is a lot worse

[amber siren]

people rogue pulling mobs in HoA

[topaz fable]

WoWhead analysis has prot warriors doing 3000-3200DPS on Sludgefist? How is that even possible. I'm ilvl 217 and can't remotely do that. Do they just all stack crit/verse or something?
I'm running Punish, Rumbling Earth, BV, BS, Indomitable, Ravager, Bolster.

[sweet summit]

3k isnt a lot 🤔
and sludge has 4-5 10 second phases where he takes double damage as well

[topaz fable]

Well, it is a lot for me.

For a prot warrior, that's huge to me.

[signal plover]

you're running bolster so you're missing a lot of dmg from AM

ITF would also probably give more dmg

[sweet summit]

devastator too

[signal plover]

ya

[topaz fable]

I guess I'll try that build out next raid, then.

[signal plover]

sludge also has increased dmg windows when he hits pillars, so folks that know how to best utilize those will pump out a LOT more dmg than the average warr on M sludge

[topaz fable]

I mean, I usually make sure to line up my DPS cooldowns with those windows.

That's kind of a no brainer.

[signal plover]

k then you should b able to do the dmg in the analysis

[topaz fable]

Well, I'll see after I try the standard talent spec.

I have been focusing on haste/verse, though, stat wise. Is that not right?

[signal plover]

haste/vers is pretty standard

we just want ilvl (with secondary focus rly being haste)

dmg trinkets also make a good bit of difference and are usually safe to use in raids outside of prog

(often even during prog)

[topaz fable]

Yeah, I have been. ilvl > haste > vers

I haven't paid much attention to the BIS DPS trinkets though for prot. What are they?

Lately, in mythic progression, I've needed the extra cooldowns that trinkets give ><

My guild is no CE guild.

Example numero uno here.

[topaz fable]

Nevermind, I looked em up.

thx tho

[outer solstice]

besides the mentioned things you might want to share a log with us so we can take a detailed look, 3k should be doable for you at 317 I guess

I haven't had a perfect sludge pull yet, my best is around 3400 DPS

[signal plover]

317 phat ilvl

[outer solstice]

317 is serviceable

[signal plover]

bout a 100 ilvl more than serviceable eh

[outer solstice]

oh yeah don't mind my typos

you know i meant 217

[signal plover]

im always watching

[outer solstice]

[digital arch]

warrior prot can be nf?

[sweet summit]

yes

[mossy peak]

at this point it's probably the best overall choice for warrior in pve, as a class

[digital arch]

nice

[crimson furnace]

..so this si what I have atm with reprisal adn BSC
this is the AOE breakdown of the majority of my fights!

What do u guys think!!!??!

[sweet summit]

shield slam is giga low

[signal plover]

^

[crimson furnace]

well, im full and only use it when rage starved

[sweet summit]

use IP to avoid overcapping and slap that slam

[signal plover]

somehow i doubt that but #shrug

[sweet summit]

thats mine

thats overall in a mists

[autumn pendant]

But are you good tank erga

[obtuse marsh]

what the max valor we can have next week

[mossy peak]

pffft didnt press whirlwind once

[signal plover]

gotta cleave those shield slams

[jagged pier]

if only

[signal plover]

one day

[sweet summit]

one day

ill do

signet bonegrinder prot

and it will slap

trust

[mossy peak]

im sold

50% of the time, it works every time

[sweet summit]

exactly

[signal plover]

grind my bones papi

[sweet summit]

😳

[real fossil]

im making an alt that will primarily be doing keys but will also dabble in pvp. I can't decide on kyrian or nf. How do each feel playing?

[signal plover]

gud

NF is prolly gonna slightly edge out kyrian in your case

[mossy peak]

kyrian for pot, nf for pump

[signal plover]

but kyrian spear is funny in pvp

[mossy peak]

ye the question is how big of a consideration is pvp

nf is the lowest covenant although i dont think it matters tremendously

[signal plover]

tbh tho, NF SLAPs in pvp as well

[real fossil]

i flex in m+ too so its like 80/20 prot/fury.

nf in arms pvp seems like a meme 1 shot which is hilarious

[signal plover]

it just lax a bit more utility

idk why i spelled lacks like that

[real fossil]

does NF do consistently more damage than kyrian in keys? or do you risk messing it up

[mossy peak]

as prot messing it up isnt really a worry

since you control the mobs

as fury it isnt that big of a worry

most of the damage is front loaded

so in general nf is going to be doing more than kyrian

it also has some real slappers of soulbinds

niya and korayn bring it

but you cant overlook the kyrian pot

it is by far the best 2nd covenant ability especially for a tank

[real fossil]

seems like its a decision between being smart and ook ook dmg

im terrible at these choices

[mossy peak]

well

are you a warrior or are you smart

[real fossil]

lol

[solemn magnet]

NF does roughly 200dps more than kyrian

But you can't screw it up. Both NF and Kyrian are solid choices

[chilly brook]

@uneven mason so I might be going back to tank

👀

[chilly brook]

I mean I do

[lofty widget]

yo guys can someone confirm that you can use the shield in the SD gauntlet at the start of the pull and have it for the squall?

[dark lark]

It's super tight but possible

Whenever I do it I get the shield up in literally the last second for the gloom squall

It does give me a little anxiety if I'm being honest with myself lol

[strong forum]

You have to use it literally instantly, then you can pull it off

But if you wait for a few seconds too long before using it, it's not gonna come back up

[blazing condor]

it works for sure but you gotta use it as soon as you get in cb with kaal

and then you'll be able to cast it like 1,5s before the gloom goes off

[scenic cargo]

is overflowing ember mirror really good or i'm overvaluing the effect ? seems a pretty strong trinekt even at 187 ilvl

[sweet summit]

the what

[raw void]

what horde races would you recommend

[scenic cargo]

the wq trinket from revendreth

[sweet summit]

looks alright on paper

but

2.5min cd

makes it kinda dogshit compared to scale and vintage for example

[sweet summit]

the one that looks best>vulpera>goblin>nightborne

[raw void]

idk how anyone plays anything but goblin, rocket jump is bis

[sweet summit]

they are small green pests

[scenic cargo]

i have neither of those ( i'm offspec tank ) so my trinket choice is quite "limited" got the stone legion's , glutton spike, dreadfire vessel, al'ar ( all in hc) and then a 210 decanter

[sweet summit]

slh is good

[scenic cargo]

usually i use heraldry + spike

[sweet summit]

ya was just about to suggest that combo

[scenic cargo]

perhaps the wq one is better on mechanics like soul rip from altimor's second dog ?

[sweet summit]

you have enough tools in your toolkit without that trinket to do well on huntsman

[scenic cargo]

my healers kinda suck

[median gyro]

Hey I don't if anyone has tested this... for prot leggo unbreakable will in raid, does it apply shield wall to all of raid? Or does it behave like Stone Legion trink where it's only the party group within the raid?

[scenic cargo]

that's why i was asking

[sweet summit]

just party

its kinda shit

[median gyro]

yikers

[jagged pier]

doesnt the tool tip say party

[sweet summit]

it does

but tooltips suck

[median gyro]

The tooltip does say party but I don't trust Blizz tooltips for shit

I was thinking of crafting it for a specific problem my guild is having but... party only is yikers. TY guys

[strong forum]

It's very bad if you do the math behind its effect

[stone sonnet]

hi guys, in aoe after night fae spell, shield block thunder clap and shield slam

is it worth to cast revenge?

also if it's not free?

[strong forum]

Revenge is our main dmg button

So yes, please use it

[tame jasper]

SR reduces magic damage taken, if spell is not reflectable right? only single target magic damage or aoe-damage as well?

aka is it an "20% reduce magic damage buff" ?

[graceful cobalt]

hi guys is it normal that we warrior must kite all mobs ? i Pull 2-3 Mobs and all time i must run becouse i drop low ( SB,IP is Up SW i cast on fucking cd even last stand)

[stone sonnet]

but often i have to use ignore pain and consume a lot of rage

[strong forum]

Then you're doing smth wrong

[stone sonnet]

sw?

[graceful cobalt]

shild wall

[strong forum]

Warrior should never feel the need to kite outside of very specific packs

We're arguably the strongest face tanking tank now with reprisal

[stone sonnet]

probably, i started play protection yesterday 😉

[strong forum]

Yeah, just keep at it

[graceful cobalt]

i am all time running with the mobs ( Plaguefall 1st big add comes if i am note running with him the healers don´t get me up ( and no i don´t stay in the fucking green shit)

[scenic cargo]

i still feel taks are a bit "wet paper"

[stone sonnet]

the goal is to have Ip always up or SB always up?

[strong forum]

Yes all tanks are much weaker than in previous expansions, all of them

[graceful cobalt]

i feel me like a Pinball charge intervane charge jump

[strong forum]

Shit healer then Verrier.. Idk what to tell you

A tanks survival also depends on the dps players now

So if you dps players also suck, you will feel alot like a wet blanket

[stone sonnet]

so i have to use revenge more often than ip?

[strong forum]

This is what the dmg breakdown should somewhat look like

IP is a defensive rage dump and dmg smoother

Not of high priority if have a manageable dmg intake

[stone sonnet]

is it worth to use ravager and avatar on the same pull?

[chilly brook]

yes

always

don't hold anything unless the pack is going to die

[stone sonnet]

oh ok

[hazy sparrow]

prots ravager doesnt work with signet?

[strong forum]

Yes

[hazy sparrow]

oh what come on

[strong forum]

:)

Game is shit

[stone sonnet]

and ravager and demoralizing shout are worth to cast in single target?

[strong forum]

Absolutely

Demo shout if you need the defensive, ravager use on CD

[hazy sparrow]

well is the bfa prot style still viable?

[strong forum]

No

[stone sonnet]

also avatar i guess

[strong forum]

Well it's aight, but not great

Yes avatar on CD

[stone sonnet]

do you suggest wowhead guide or icy veins guide?

so sb has higher priority then ignore pain

[winter pulsar]

100%

I think both guides are a pretty good starting point as well.

[strong forum]

Icy veins gets more updates more regularly I think

But I haven't read either so can't tell

[leaden dew]

is tanking M+ as daunting as it sounds? i was gungho about making a prot war yday but now im thinking about all the responsibility

[hazy sparrow]

im guessing with the way rage is spent for prot whirlwind is a no no cast

[surreal ember]

revenge always better

[hazy sparrow]

off it goes from my bars then

[strong forum]

It's no simple task, I'll tell you that much

[leaden dew]

i hear flame happens alot

which im kinda used to as a healer

but i hear its worse for tanks

cause i have to learn routes and memorize count and stuff x_x thats alot

[strong forum]

Yeah, you need to have a thick skin

[untold sapphire]

guys which cov are u playing? i know the guides, just asking

[strong forum]

Kyrian

[torn gust]

night fae

[mighty valley]

venthyr

[hazy sparrow]

oh wait prot doesnt have piercing duuude

[untold sapphire]

pog 3 different answers xD

[sweet summit]

im necrolord!

[leaden dew]

any recommended guides on where to begin with tanking

[untold sapphire]

im just going with the best armor i guess :p

[sweet summit]

thats venthyr!

[sweet summit]

icy veins one owns

[leaden dew]

and streamers to watch

[ionic nimbus]

no thats necro!

[sweet summit]

streamers noted in #268491842637660160

necro one sucks pp compared to venthyr one

[untold sapphire]

condemn sucks as tank :/

was arms at release

[red tree]

It's not ideal but big condemn crits on bosses feels great. Helps none with trash.

[spring mountain]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/vengeance-demon-hunters-taking-less-magic-damage-than-intended-due-to-bug-in-321473

Bye bye VDH, HHELLLLLLLOOOOO prot

[obtuse marsh]

POG

[leaden dew]

think im just gonna hop into it and hope for the best

and learn

[amber herald]

best way tbh

[blazing condor]

when i started tanking in cata i jumped into random HC dungeons - went into one pack and lost all aggro and panic left the dungeon

[mighty valley]

cata was the worst time to learn in HC dungeons lol

[blazing condor]

yeah lmao they were no childsplay

dont have 3 ccs for a pack? better luck next time

[leaden dew]

this makes me nervous lmao

[torn gust]

Rip veng

[mossy sluice]

wouldn't be surprised if they dont fix that til 9.1

[mystic ridge]

What a bug

[blazing condor]

nah its waaay better now lol - just practice in normal dungeons if you want to feel safe. Should be no problems at all 🙂

[leaden dew]

fair enough

[placid oar]

I wonder what will happen to Vengeance when they fix that bug. Did that bug actually make them so strong in M+?

[torn gust]

Yes

[mystic ridge]

Yes, most or at least a large number of the tank busters are magic

[placid oar]

Ahhh I see

[mighty valley]

i think they'd probably still be the meta tank but damn that's pretty big

[mystic ridge]

That's such a comical level of extra baseline mitigation that it's no wonder people went to vdh

[grave crane]

Is beating abomination core a better choice than memory of past sins? The memory is 213 and if I switch I lose 11 strength

[charred osprey]

I see them compesating it with some kind of buff though. Wouldnt be surprised

[mystic ridge]

Theyll probably just give it the mm hunter treatment and make no comment about it

[placid oar]

It’s gonna hurt quite a number of vengeance players when they fix it like what the author wrote, but I guess it is necessary.

[placid oar]

Pardon, but what was the MM treatment?

[mossy sluice]

wild spirits interaction w/ legendary

basically double dipped

it got fixed for bm a couple months ago but mm got to keep it til 9.0.5

[placid oar]

Ah I see, thank u

I wonder how many more bugs are actually still in the game that affects player power.

Makes me feel like some of the high io scores are kinda obtained in a easier fashion for some classes 😔

[mystic ridge]

That's always true

[placid oar]

☹️

[strange socket]

Fueled By Violence Conduit. Thoughts? Seems reasonable

[sweet summit]

dogshit

[merry ocean]

maybe even worse

[amber herald]

https://twitter.com/ClariusWoW/status/1373194883733852160

Clarius (@ClariusWoW)

Pelagos' trait Let go of the past is broken. It actually increases magic damage you take instead of reducing it. https://t.co/ASjDh0Q0g6 @WarcraftDevs @WatcherDev

Twitter · Mar 20, 2021, 8:49 AM

wot

[strange socket]

huh? ^

[blazing condor]

🤔

[stone sonnet]

how often do you use shattering throw?

[obtuse prism]

wait wtf? vdh is bugged and thats why they take so little magic dmg? how is this fair to all us plebs?

[onyx moon]

not often what when you need shattering throw its nice to have

[stone sonnet]

for example? in m+?

[onyx moon]

yeah there are a few special mobs and bosses that generate shields or give them selves immunity such as necrotic wake

[shut summit]

yea, hakkar, last boss necrotic wake, etc etc

[amber herald]

anyone with a 5head verify what's been saying about the pelagos trait?

[onyx moon]

id say out side of boss fights dont use it

since you can block dodge or parry while channeling

[stone sonnet]

thx

[onyx moon]

cant

[naive panther]

anyone use 194 flame of battle trinket from command table?

sims a bit under my others, but seems possibly decent in m+

just quite a bit less strength

[hollow owl]

so, is prot warrior noticeably more tanky than other tanks in m+? i feel like i get smashed on prot pally and VDH

[naive panther]

still get hit hard, but if you can keep shield block up its pretty decent against melee

[signal plover]

We r so tanky most groups won't invite us because they don't want the game to be so easy

Huehuehue

[amber herald]

compared to a prot pally and vdh?

it will be noticeable yeah

[signal plover]

VDH shouldn't rly get trucked inside AM windows tho

[hollow owl]

i'm like 218 on my paladin doing 15s or so and i just feel like i get crushed

my VDH is only 200 ish doing around 9-10s

[amber herald]

some packs you'll be squishier on depending on the magic dmg too

[hollow owl]

that's true, plus there's the new VDH bug they found, VDH might get squishier on those too

[amber herald]

I know that when I play with groups not used to prot warr they throw trees and ursol's onto the pack and I have no idea why

[blazing condor]

trees are nice tho

my only issue is that they usually throw them in at the beginning of packs

so they overlap on my SBs/LS/SW

[naive panther]

Yeah hate trees going down at start of my mitigation

Or I get out to charge in for rep and they drop them which is still way early

[limpid pawn]

gotta be on discord

otehrwise all that stuff won't be coordinated

watching PLKA's streams taught me a good amount - like 90%+ of their success other than simply player skill, is immaculate coordination

i.e. discord call outs.

[onyx moon]

thats why banner too good 😄

[hazy sparrow]

what addon do you guys use for routes?

[stone sonnet]

is there a guide for abbreviations? :D+

[lofty widget]

SB shield block, LS last stand, SW shield wall, youll pick them up fast enough

[blazing condor]

I think there might be on Icy Veins...? Those were Shield Block, Last Stand and Shield Wall 🙂

[stone sonnet]

but last stand and shield wall are only in need

right?

or on cerain pulls i should cast them couse they are hard pull?

[blazing condor]

Some packs you kinda learn that you need to have mitigation up as you go into the pack

example being the first 2 pulls in DoS for example

2nd pull especially with all casters its almost a must to go in with shield wall after youve reflect/interrupted

[stone sonnet]

how can i do? if i use cds on first pull i will not have cd on second

[undone verge]

mythic dungeon tools

[swift axle]

The Wall still the mainstream choice for M+ farming? Or anyone using Umbreakable Will for grievous?

[limpid pawn]

no way

reprisal now

even with reprisal warriors are under-played

[undone verge]

what I try to do, is pop last stand in the first group, and stick around until the big guy enrages, then I heroic leap out and kite them until he deenrages and pop another round of shield block and ignore pain

prot warriors feel so squishy with any type of magic damage

[onyx moon]

only if you dont use your mitigation first

[limpid pawn]

literally all tanks have that issue

[onyx moon]

we do suffer with magic damage but dont be afraid to pop that shield wall going into a pack

[limpid pawn]

demo shout, reflect, and shield wall and/or ignore pain smooth it

[blazing condor]

Like coconut said, i last stand first pack and save shield wall for 2nd - try and be in as much as possible then kite when i need

[onyx moon]

communicate with you healer notify them when your damage mitigation is going to fall off

[undone verge]

dh have a passive dmg reduction, where as the only specific magic dmg prot has is a spell reflect

[hazy sparrow]

why is repirsal so good now?

[onyx moon]

no we also have ignore pain

[blazing condor]

because you can have like 80% uptime on SB

and you can run AM with it

= more deeps

[onyx moon]

more damage mitigation rage and damage

shield block is stupid good in mythic +

[limpid pawn]

i think the top wars aren't using anger management still

i looked at the top M+/raider io page for prot wars

[hazy sparrow]

lol what have u guys been using then i use am all time

[limpid pawn]

like the majority are running bolster

[mental scarab]

the block on last stand is so good in m+ dho 😮

[limpid pawn]

yeah exactly

[onyx moon]

Tanks dont scale proportionate too key level unlike dps so damage gets too be a bit much

[limpid pawn]

our literal worst problem was mitigation uptime. reprisal is a step forward, but losing bolster is like 2 steps back

i tried some high keys with and without bolster, having bolster is 100% better

[onyx moon]

well you dont have to switch away from bolster

[limpid pawn]

like being able to use avatar more often isn't that good

[hazy sparrow]

hmm why is AM better with this lego ?

[limpid pawn]

it is not

AM was so good before because we had bastion of might which turned avatar into a defensive cooldown, as well as last stand tied to AM which was NUTS

[onyx moon]

AM does increase up time on SW tho

[limpid pawn]

but now, we get neither, which makes AM only bring back shield wall which already has a long ass CD without using the wall

which isn't worth it over taking bolster IMO

[onyx moon]

depends

[wanton condor]

AM gets you more damage really

[hazy sparrow]

huh well if we get double legendaries things will smooth out

[wanton condor]

decent chunk more SW but I generally prefer bolster

[onyx moon]

and clears packs faster

[limpid pawn]

double lego + AM + the wall/reprisal will be good yes

[wanton condor]

I'm doubtful we'll get double leggo tbh

[onyx moon]

i would say if dps is too low to clear packs then go bolster

also are you kiting when needed?

[hazy sparrow]

what do you guys run usaully for your 45 talent

[onyx moon]

Ravager

unless you are raiding

[limpid pawn]

ravager just feels bad to play

i have never been a fan of ravager, never will

[onyx moon]

??

[limpid pawn]

I use it, it's the best option there

[onyx moon]

i mean the rage generation is enough reason to play

[limpid pawn]

but it just sucks compared to bfa's style

[onyx moon]

yeah

this isnt bfa

[limpid pawn]

it just doesn't feel like a warrior move

[onyx moon]

we got a nerf and it sucks but o well

[hazy sparrow]

man bfa prot was a whole new level of fun

[onyx moon]

Prot warrior play style has consistantly changed as xpacs have come and gone

much like every other class

it may feel worse right now

[hollow owl]

minus maybe vengeance, i feel like most tanks feel pretty bad to play right now. or i'm having trouble finding one i like as my alt anyways

[onyx moon]

but warrior didnt get good in bfa until the end

[limpid pawn]

i got all the tanks atm

so vengeance fells good, brew feels good

[onyx moon]

Vengence is too good tbh

[limpid pawn]

bear feels ok, blood feels bad

[hollow owl]

i dont get why brew doesnt see more play tbh

[hazy sparrow]

prot pally are good too

[onyx moon]

its hard too play

[limpid pawn]

so if vengeance drops b/c of too many nerfs

[onyx moon]

Brew is a skill monkey

[limpid pawn]

specifically to fiery brand lego

then we will see the rise of brews

[onyx moon]

you dont have the armor too be naturally tanky you gotta be johnny on the spot with your abilities

[limpid pawn]

brew is definitely high skill ceiling without a doubt

[elfin nova]

The argument for AM is that bolster is a lot worse when block uptime is very high w/o it

[limpid pawn]

block uptime for high keys is not sufficient w/ just AM imo

well, let me rephrase

[onyx moon]

its an 80% up time

[limpid pawn]

if you take double time, then AM is ok

[onyx moon]

so its higher than it was with Bolster before hand

[limpid pawn]

if you take storm bolt, then you may need bolster

[hollow owl]

i also wonder if prot pally would slide into that #1 spot if vdh is nerfed

[limpid pawn]

double time itself changes this as well because of the extra charge

[hazy sparrow]

wait wouldnt heavy reprecussion be better with repirsal?

[onyx moon]

gotta kite when you cant use damage mitigation or when damage gets too be too much

[limpid pawn]

prot pally needs a huge SOTR buff to rise to the top in high keys

otherwise it will never be top

SOTR is so ass

[hollow owl]

SOTR?

[elfin nova]

Yeah I still feel like bolster is good (and w/o last stand is real bad), but you're more likely to need to shield wall on top of block/something you can't block than you are to need that extra block uptime i think

[onyx moon]

yeah but paladins are fine they dont need a buff

[inland raft]

So with vdh probably about to get the ww treatment, are we ready to push the warrior narrative to the pug masses?

[hollow owl]

they have good damage but feel squishy and they can't kite almost at all

[elfin nova]

Warrior is already large in the stonks department

[limpid pawn]

warrior is ok, but for high keys and the current meta brew is better

objectively looking at their toolkits

[onyx moon]

yeah with reprisal warrior is sitting pretty good right now

[limpid pawn]

like after VDH, it's clearly brew

[hollow owl]

i can see it. they're the most kite-y after vdh for sure

[limpid pawn]

yep

actually, they are MORE kitey than DH

just less tanky

[onyx moon]

and vdh has alot of utility

[elfin nova]

Noone knows what they'll do to veng anyway

[onyx moon]

like a mass silence

[limpid pawn]

fiery brand + meta >>>> stagger/CB

[hollow owl]

brew has a decent amount. ring of peace is really good

[limpid pawn]

that is why they are on top

[hollow owl]

incapacitate

[limpid pawn]

yeah 2x torpedo, RoP

transcendence

that is more than VDH's 2x jump + chains

[onyx moon]

the issue right now is Vengence deals too much damage most dps specs cant beat it out

[limpid pawn]

vdh damage is similar to brew damage

[onyx moon]

eh

[limpid pawn]

like in a fortified key

it's true

[hollow owl]

they dont really sit there and deal sustained damage in high keys

jump in blow everything start jumping away

[onyx moon]

yeah thats the meta

its why Blood dks are ass

[hollow owl]

yea im saying there's no way they're doing dps levels of dps while playing like that

[onyx moon]

although im ok with Blood dks being bad in <+

[elfin nova]

Blood dk is really good at kiting

[onyx moon]

in M+

[limpid pawn]

they are just ok

[elfin nova]

You can walk out of melee range without moving the mobs

[limpid pawn]

good at kiting is relative

[onyx moon]

their kit is better set up for being a raid tank

[limpid pawn]

if there are tanks w/ 2 x chi torpedo, RoP, and transc

[elfin nova]

The meta is searching for a tank that doesn't kite

[limpid pawn]

then blood dk is actually bad lol

[elfin nova]

Staying still will make dps players think your class is good

Trust

[hollow owl]

would be great. but i think tanks would need buffed across the board

[onyx moon]

oh i hate it when dps complain about kiting

[elfin nova]

We'll see with warrior

It's grievous week and people are playing warriors with no gear and still doing ok

[limpid pawn]

when dps complain, it means the tank is doing it wrong

[onyx moon]

i think prot warrior is in a good spot right now

[limpid pawn]

you tank in a circle, not a long straight line

[hollow owl]

play anything with a ground targetted effect though, it's not fun

[strong forum]

Dps will complain if the mobs move 0.1cm

Ignore them, if you survive, you're doing it right, fuck them

[onyx moon]

agreed

[hollow owl]

yea if you dont time the key but you lived, who cares right

[onyx moon]

dps will complain if you are moving to fast and then turn around and complain you are moving too slow

[elfin nova]

Moving is a dps loss no matter what you do though

So if there exists a tank that can stand still

[onyx moon]

right

but mobs hit too hard so

[hollow owl]

dps would love it. most ranged dps hate playing with vdh

[onyx moon]

if TC had a better slow wed be gods at kiting

[elfin nova]

They want my 5% magic damage but not my excessive leaping pepehands

Yes bring back conflict and strife, that would be very balance :^)

[onyx moon]

so more vers

Pika enchants vers and sockets it so maybe thats why

with Necrolord haste buff ill probably do the same

[strong forum]

I mean nerf is literally showing that gear doesn't matter

22-23s

With 209 ilvl

And 12% vers

Obv it's does matter, but not to the extent that people pray it

[onyx moon]

right

But i imagine most of us are casuals

so gotta hedge my bets

[strong forum]

Yeah so just get better , that's my take on everything others do

Legit

[onyx moon]

you didnt say it right

[strong forum]

If we wiped to smth, or didnt manage to do X

I always say "if others can do it, so can we"

[onyx moon]

no no no like GIT GUD SCRUB

[strong forum]

My bad

[onyx moon]

THERE IS NO WEAKNESS IN THIS DOJO

THERE IS NO FEAR IN THIS DOJO

[spring umbra]

do you guys recommend macroing scale with LS, SW, or keeping sep?

[ionic fern]

Sep.

[spring umbra]

rgr, tyty

[strong forum]

Who's sep

[ionic fern]

The dude from FF

[spring umbra]

its the dude whos gonna find me a new keybind

lol

[elfin nova]

Get a footpedal

[errant linden]

What is the opener for prot? My snapshot threat feels very weak

[strong forum]

Ravager-charge+avatar-tc/revenge-spear-revenge/ss+sb

Spear is a godsend in terms of snap aggro

[errant linden]

Yeah, I went Necrolord so I don't have spear option. But ravager-charge is what I never did.

[strong forum]

Ravager takes 1 global to deal dmg

So you have all the time in the world to pre-cast it

[blazing condor]

Rav opener best opener

Speen

[spring umbra]

was reading up as a scrub and was curious if anyone could expand on this?

does this mean shield ilvl /BV increases our dmg as well?

[mild ruin]

Playing nf prot atm in m+ and in able to rotate rav and AA, havent lost threat since

[strong forum]

Shield grants strength, which directly increases dmg output

Booming voice, is an external multiplier applied to others which means the afflicted targets takes 20% increased dmg from all out class dmg dealing abilities such as thunderclap revenge and so on, also covenant abilities as they count as class ability, but not trinket dmg or potion dmg as they are not class abilities

Same as avatar increases our class dmg 20%, not counting external dmg like trinkets or potions. Works the same way

[spring umbra]

ahh yea that makes sense, was overlooking the str. ty

[barren socket]

so anyone having trouble with banner not working on yourself?

[mighty valley]

oh i was confused thinking BV was block value this context

there aren't enough letters

[turbid cargo]

in what way? I don't know that I bothered looking too much into it, but I haven't noticed myself not getting the rage gen, mastery, or run speed

[strong forum]

Block value is only to increase the amount of dmg that you block

% wise

Not related to dmg output, "only" dmg intake

[barren socket]

yeah i'm literally not getting any benefit, not even the banner show on my back

but the 2 people close to me get it

really strange

[mighty valley]

yeah i know, hence why i was confused by "bv increases our dmg" when people were talking about shields

[turbid cargo]

yeah that I definitely haven't had happen

[mighty valley]

acronym confusion

[stable kernel]

that vdh nerf is spicy

[strong forum]

Well, it's not live and it's not a nerf

It's like reprisal having the 6 sec instead of 4sec for 2 days

[stable kernel]

a bug fix reducing their magic reduction by 15%

[lofty widget]

reckon it will be fixed in the foreseeable future tho?

[stable kernel]

[strong forum]

Vdh will still be the King of magic dmg reduction

They're still 24% ahead of everybody else ( when using the conduit)

Ontop of their self healing and brand

[ionic fern]

Do their Orbs still count as 1 heal each so they can keep Grevious off themselves 24/7?

😂

[strong forum]

I think so

Soulcleave also does a heal ontop of that

So yeah, never more than 1 stack of grievous, kinda OP

Does indom work?

[lofty widget]

IP does the same when?

[strong forum]

Don't think it does

[timber nest]

is there some sort of meme thing to make phantom fire do more damage? i feel like i keep having pulls where it does literally 4k damage

[ionic fern]

No. 😦

[strong forum]

Get lucky!

Also shadowcore oil

They both interact

[cosmic oasis]

so u get 14k instead of 4k dmg 💩

[strong forum]

Idk man I get like 45-50k out of my pots

Big stonks

Often pot pridefuls 📈

[cosmic oasis]

i dont look at it much so prob got 40k pots once

[sturdy trench]

are there no 5 man dummies

in necrolord covenant?

[cosmic oasis]

its in the back

way back

err dunno if there is a good 5 man dummy there

[sturdy trench]

theres only 2 target dummies

[mild ruin]

Theres no multi target dummies in necro im pretty sure

[sturdy trench]

like who the fuck designed that

when every other covenant has 5 target

[solid tinsel]

Hi guys, I have a question. With the vault I got 220 legs, but it's where i have reprisal. If I equip my reprisal legs i'm at 206 ilvl, and if I go for Thunderlord i have 209.
I think the reprisal effect should be better than 3 ilvl, but I wanted to be sure, thanks.

[sweet summit]

reprisal effect is better

[blazing condor]

i swear spirit link totem got a 15 min cd or something cus no shamans ever use them in m+ anymore

[timber nest]

well, thats awkward i just figured out why my phantom fire pots were doing so little

i forgot to use shadowcore oil

[sweet summit]

imean its grevious

can imagine it not being great

but idk

[blazing condor]

losing DoS runs because people take the wrong portal despite very clearly writing in the chat which ones which

[sand condor]

Are phantom fires good for prot?

[lusty grotto]

yes

[undone verge]

im so squishy and I dont know why

[solid tinsel]

thanks @sweet summit !

[undone verge]

how much does verse matter, I know its important, but how much would it make a difference if I didnt have 15+%\

[sweet summit]

it really doesnt matter

do you have any logs?

[undone verge]

no

wowlogs wont update me either "/

:/

it only keeps some old logs on dungeons I did a week ago

it also thinks im a worgan lol'

[sweet summit]

check your settings
have you resynched to bnet?

[undone verge]

I have not, ill do that

I synced it, no updates though

but the real question is why am I so squishy doing a +7 at ilevel 198

[floral pewter]

supposedly, some people interpret "front left" to mean "the portal that takes you to the front left platform", which is the back left portal

but it's also great when people just straight-up don't listen

[sweet summit]

i can answer that question if you give logs 👀

[undone verge]

your gonna have to help me with it lol cause I got no idea how grab logs

[sweet summit]

How do i log ?
So, if you have been here for a while, you may have noticed that whenever somebody ask for advice we ask them for a log, and if you’re new you might have no idea what that means or how to get one so :

🔸 First, download Loggerhead (https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/loggerhead) or ERT (https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/exorsus-raid-tools)

Once you have one of these any time you enter a zone where you might want a log (ie dungeon/raid/torghast) these addons will automatically start logging (in the case of ERT you have to activate automated logging in the options).
Alternatively if you don’t want to install an addon for it, whenever you are going to do an activity you want to log type /combatlog in chat to start logging said activity.
Remember to activate advanced logging in the options (System -> Network -> Advanced Combat Logging)
All these options will store your logs in your wow file inside the retail folder and the log file.

🔸 Second, go here (https://www.warcraftlogs.com/client/download) download the client. Select the live section of the client, select the upload a log button and select the fight you’re interested in putting up as a log and boom you’re done.

🔸 Third, once you’ve done all this, your log is uploaded you can put it up here and we can look at it together to see if you’re doing something wrong.

😎

[undone verge]

alr I'll get on that and @ you when ive finished

[sweet summit]

sounds good

i might be in bed tho, as its late
but if noone else takes a look by the time ive woken up ill have a look

[dire anvil]

Could be healer, could be no one interrupting. Many things could be happening. Just make sure you have good shield block/ignore pain uptime

[sick sentinel]

besides the meme about simp warrior, that are the legit reasons to be kyrian over necrolord, thinking about swapping

[sweet summit]

phial
upfront damage/rage gen that spear brings
a personal steward

also kleia 🥵

[charred osprey]

Hot blue angels

[undone verge]

Ive been thinking about those, what is a normal hps, cause the healers I usually am with do around 3k, but the dps usually are kinda less than average, getting hit with stuff, and the interupting is subpar, still I feel super squishy

[sweet summit]

warriors dont do hps

thats an irrelevant metric

[floral pewter]

the Spear root is nice for kiting, too

[undone verge]

I mean the healer

[sweet summit]

oh that depends

on A LOT of things

[floral pewter]

overall HPS is kind of an irrelevant metric for a healer, because like, they just heal all the incoming damage, if they don't you wipe

in a +15ish, that's usually around 4-5k overall

in a +7, 3k-ish sounds right

[dire anvil]

3k should be fine, but if no one is interrupting you will be taking way more dmg than you should be

[sick sentinel]

the healing/absorbs that plague deviser and fleshcraft brings is really nice, not sure how much defensive value I'm losing

[floral pewter]

but if they're still putting out 3k in a big pull where you're at risk of dying, something is wrong

[sick sentinel]

Mastery from spear with pelagos is better than banner so that's nice atleast

[floral pewter]

earlier I had a run with a healer pulling like 3.5k overall, which would be fine... but 40 seconds into a 5-pack, he was at 1k HPS for the pull, despite a Prideful buff. So that pull did not go well.

do the good healers just stop playing on Grievous week? I feel like I've had a lot of healer issues lately, haha

[gray warren]

good healers don't have to pub

[blazing condor]

What portal do you guys usually take on muehzala?

Just curious

[lofty widget]

anything in melee, i usually go top right

[blazing condor]

Yeah same i go front right as well

[plush saffron]

good healers see it as a week off which then leads to a void that is filled by healers who aren't used to healing at that key level and they are bad so they struggle with grievous as well.

[blazing condor]

Apparently i suck because i didnt go left ”which is standard” although i explicitly said that me and the healer take front right

[tawny citrus]

Hey, I looked up the fact, but I want to confirm: BiS for M+ is Reprisasl, Raid is Wall ?

[blazing condor]

yeah p much

[plush saffron]

reprisal for both

[floral pewter]

lolwut

[patent osprey]

seismic

;)

[floral pewter]

didn't even read the Azeroth International Standards Guide, smh

[blazing condor]

Yeah ikr no wonder im not progressing :/

[plush saffron]

yeah, cause you're playing with tards

[blazing condor]

Yeah its kinda shitty having to pug

Rio doesnt even matter anymore it seems like everyone has the ability to be braindead

[plush saffron]

pug dps are the worst because they havent been picked up by a good tank or healer which means theyre extra bad

you have to add inflation to rio

[blazing condor]

Its very hit or miss

Yeah everyone and their grandma is at least Ksm now because of valor

Getting your +15 boosted by 2k io people

[plush saffron]

the ilvl as well. KSM is only a good indicator at the start of a season

[north rampart]

PROTIP for prot warriors, if taunt is on cooldown, heroic leap rests it.

PROTIP for Venthry prot warriors, if heroic leap is on cooldown, pop avatar ravager booming voice demo shout and spam condemn.

[fallen hearth]

Are prot warriors still taking booming voice over best served cold with the new reprisal changes?

[north rampart]

Just pulled aggro from a paladin 💪

[lofty widget]

we changed from BV to bsc and from bolster to AM

[fallen hearth]

Awesome, thats what I've been running. Thanks!

[undone verge]

I still use BV over best served cold tbh the extra rage helps me keep shield block and ignore pain up more often

then again im not exactly running high keys or mythic raids

[fallen hearth]

I kind of understand BM for BSC in raid for the instant rage but M+ damage seems to favor BSC

[north rampart]

Its a nice little panic button isnt it, demoshout into ignorepain, 40 rage is 4% health too with indominitable right, every little helps

[grand drum]

If you want healing you should play a dk though

[fallen hearth]

Or a paladin

[lofty widget]

pretty much any other tank than warrior

[fallen hearth]

Yeah my monk's healing isnt even THAT bad

[lavish oracle]

You just don't really need panic buttons on warrior, BV is the more defensive option if you need it

But if you don't, then fuck it, big dam

[charred osprey]

More healing done can sometimes be becouse u also take more dmg. Horrible metric

Like spamming ignore pain instead of shieldblock is more healing :p not nessecarely a good idea

[rare kraken]

Yeah healer hps can be lower on a higher key compared to a lower key if the people on a lower key are standing in more shit for example

[charred osprey]

Yep. And unavoidable dmg is also easier to heal since its predictable . Havning to heal unpredicted dmg means healers can get gaps in their rotation = less hps

So like a pride in +20 is easier to heal than a pride in +10 where people get hit by stuns

[fading quiver]

Can you use reprisal on sludge if you have your offtank create a cancel aura macro?

[shut summit]

yes

[rare kraken]

Hey guys my friend is struggling in 15s and feels like he's paper, can anyone give some insight on where he might be going wrong? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/PpJK6G9Nt3T1BLbH#fight=last
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/y4YjmHWLBGAp9art

[lofty widget]

So the blocked hit % is quite low, only around 40 % where it should ideally be around 80 % when playing reprisal. Firstly i would make sure that whenever blockable dmg is going out, that you have shield block up (getting a tracker for this helps a lot). I also see that intervene is pretty much not used, doing that when there is downtime in shield block will help too

[turbid cargo]

@rare kraken

[rare kraken]

yeah I instantly noticed that

[turbid cargo]

he's blowing all of his rage on revenges and barely using his active mitigation at all

[lofty widget]

Revenge/IP yea

[rare kraken]

Gotcha. Anything else notable?

[turbid cargo]

only having shield block up for 22% of physical damage taken across a whole dungeon is going to make you feel like paper by itself.
this whole log just smells of bad skill usage (and straight up not pressing his buttons enough. tons of downtime)

[plush saffron]

Is this 'friend' you?

[near gazelle]

He should be using at least charge 2-3 times per pull and intervene once. This week is nice since you can charge spiteful when heroic leap is in cd to do the classic

[rare kraken]

@plush saffron Nope, I have my own warrior that I've posted logs of before 😛

[royal marten]

Is the Beating Abomination Core any good?

[molten stream]

hey can you spell reflect denathrius's hand of destruction on heroic?

[lofty widget]

nope

[molten stream]

thanks

[torpid wolf]

Best WA to track Prot stuff, in your opinion?

[lofty widget]

luxthos has a pretty nice package, havent used it personally tho

[rare kraken]

Luxthos/Afenar is standard I think

[woven trellis]

if he was, he clearly isnt comfortable saying its him, so its bad behavior to tease the guy on it unless youre looking for trouble

[torpid wolf]

I'm the friend. I'm an idiot.

[woven trellis]

lmao

[torpid wolf]

I'm just trying to fix the problem. Had no issue tanking everything up to 14s and now at 15s it's like I'm a baby. I understand what I'm doing wrong, I just want to find a way to track information as best as I can.

I already have a Shield Block/Ignore Pain tracker, but I'm trying to find something to remind me to charge/intervene on CD/when available.

[lofty widget]

what works for me personally is just having my bars centered so i can see and NOTICE when stuff gets off cooldown

[torpid wolf]

A CD Bar? I haven't used one of those in a long time. Any advice on which one to get?

[floral pewter]

Afenar's weakaura has charge/intervene icons on it, and you could set them to glow or something if you want

[torpid wolf]

Gotcha.

[floral pewter]

although really, with Reprisal you just charge/intervene when you need more shield block, and you've already got a shield block timer bar

[north pecan]

Anyone else starting to get abit of threat issues with higher geared dps in higher keys, just did a 19 Mists and felt like every pull either the ele shaman or fire mage were pulling lol

Could be my gear I guess as im only 215, but coming from brew where its a non issue ;/

[mossy sluice]

yeah no tricks/md can make some pulls rough if you dont have spear/ravager

[leaden lion]

Just read the stuff above about logs and decided to check my own, my uptime for shield block/ignore pain seems to only be 35-45% per dungeon. Whats the best way i can go about improving this?

[north pecan]

Meh just aim for about 60%, charge, if you want you can just macro intervene to your healer; then intervene charge in after like 15s into a pull

[amber siren]

SB is about effective uptime rather than total uptime, and IP is just your rage dump. The only time you’d need to be concerned about IP is if you’re wasting rage is if you’re capping rage and not using it.

[leaden lion]

I see. I've been using IP about the same frequency as SB, is that incorrect? And how do i check the effective uptime in the log, am quite new to using them :D

[mossy sluice]

damage taken

melee hits

should be broken down into blocked and unblocked

[leaden lion]

great thanks

ahh so i am blocking closer to 55%

[plush saffron]

You can block even with SB down so thats not the best metric to go off

[mossy sluice]

it's a better metric than sb uptime

[junior pebble]

Does you keep your renown if you leave and come back to a covenant

[sturdy sable]

Yes

And what ever anima you've deposited

[plush saffron]

regretting going necro?

[lofty widget]

blocked hit % is definitely the right metric to look at tho??

[sturdy sable]

That's the thing about tanking

[plush saffron]

what are you trying to improve?

[sturdy sable]

There is no definite metric other then you live or die

[mossy sluice]

you can always take less damage

if i never use sb and we kill the boss that's a definite metric

[lofty widget]

if you wanna improve staying alive the biggest thing yo ucan do is raise your shield

[plush saffron]

its so easy to put SB up that no one should be struggling with that part

[lofty widget]

problem is doing it at ther ight time

[junior pebble]

No I was considering trying necro because next week is a dead week. I'll be going back to nf for sure

[torpid wolf]

What if you're dying through SB/IP?

Should you be kiting?

[plush saffron]

depends how much healing the healer did

[torpid wolf]

I read someone say that with reprisal we don't really need to kite anymore, is that a lie lmao?

I guess my main healer partner is a resto druid, so maybe depending on hots might have something to do with it.

[plush saffron]

what key level are you doing?

[torpid wolf]

14s and 15s

215 ilvl.

[plush saffron]

shouldnt have to kite there

[leaden lion]

im dying a lot in 11s and 12s, my healer friend who i play with is able to do 16s, sometimes the dps are being idiots not interupting etc, but i am obviously doing somehting wrong aswell :D

[plush saffron]

oh yeah I looked at your logs bone

you cast SB once during the last boss on HoA

[torpid wolf]

Tear me up, fam.

Seems legit, tho I have less trouble on bosses than trash. Adds are where I'm struggling the most.

Some pulls in DoS I just get deleted unless I kite from the start.

[plush saffron]

the dos mobs hurt in the inner ring due to the magic dmg

even the skeles using a magic attack

[leaden lion]

yeah im also getting creamed in DoS

[torpid wolf]

Not much we can really do about it, even through IP/SB/SW I still feel paper thin.

[plush saffron]

SB is shit there so thats when you use demo/SW/externals kite

[torpid wolf]

Roger.

[plush saffron]

IP is a smoother, its useless against mass dam

[mossy sluice]

if youre afraid of dying just run away, even if youre on a 7 or a 17

[torpid wolf]

yeah, I'll put out an IP and it'll disappear in a second.

[plush saffron]

what helps in DOS is doing the first pull then skipping to the pat and then coming back and doing the 2nd so CDs are back up

[torpid wolf]

Which pat specifically?? The one near the Ardenweald one?

[mossy sluice]

one infront of hakkar

ardenweald you can urn

o he meant you go to the rage boy and kill it then come back to hakkar pack

[plush saffron]

yeah

[torpid wolf]

these are the only pats in DoS that destroy me

pulls*

I feel like first pull I use too many of my big CD's.

[mossy sluice]

yeah and theyre back to back, if you skip and come back it lets your group get cds back to blast that pull

[torpid wolf]

Maybe my dps' aren't interrupting well enough? I keep seeing scribes/death lotus' shredding to us