protection

[fringe marten]

"You had your day in the sun in Vanilla wow assholes...we waited a little while..and let you have it back at the end of BFA....now you wait another half decade or so!"

[glacial skiff]

Yeah I know, but from what I recall prot warrior wasn’t like the best at anything since BC

[plush saffron]

why you think we losing rav?

[jagged pier]

UF might be the play

[low timber]

You think the changes and the buffed leggo will boost prot up enough to compete with the higher tier tanks in dungeons?

[jagged pier]

i play what mwahi tells me

[glacial skiff]

Yes

[fringe marten]

KEk..yeah..like he said, M+ debuted in Legion. We were not FOTM then either.

[glacial skiff]

Tho DH may remain king thanks to their crazy burst - kite

[orchid frigate]

what was FOTM in legion?

[median tulip]

Yes

[jagged pier]

eh? in legion first patch we were Fotm

[fringe marten]

...wasn't it..? monk?

[jagged pier]

then they change dragon scales

[wanton condor]

Okay yeah, it is linearly reduced, weird

[fringe marten]

No wait..it was DH wasn't it?

[jagged pier]

and inspiring presence

[plush saffron]

Druids and then DKs

[glacial skiff]

That’s because IP was broken first patch

[fringe marten]

DH's debuted in legion and were super sick

OH YEA..Dk

[glacial skiff]

They nerfed that quick

[fringe marten]

yeah Blood DK was banaynays

[mellow patio]

Bonestormmmmmmmmm

[low timber]

Time to start leveling my warrior then. Loved prot baxk when it was good. Bear is fun atm but I get tired of pushing thrash for like 3 hours

[polar radish]

So is reprisal still good?

[orchid frigate]

i didnt do much m+ in legion but i have a vague memory of BDK being super self reliant

[median tulip]

next week

[glacial skiff]

Prot warrior wasn’t fotm or really good at all in raids in BFA or legion (EN doesn’t count)

[plush saffron]

BDK had consumption

[glacial skiff]

Except m+ in BFA and even then iirc they sucked first tier

[fringe marten]

Was it Legion? or early BFA? or...from legion THROUGH bfa...that the hotshit was BDK+DiscP

[next pelican]

BDK was the best M+ tank until it got massacred in BFA

[oblique pike]

in legion prot warrior was good for like 2 weeks before they got massively nerfed, then they spent like a tier and a half being shit

[glacial skiff]

Charge and IP being on the GCD LMAO

[jagged pier]

let me point u to argus 2 set which allowed us to become a dps spec as well as tank

we were really good in argus

[fringe marten]

^^^^^

I remember...that set was sick

[glacial skiff]

I won’t lie Argus 2 set was good

[jagged pier]

and in final patch i was doing 15s without a healer so 🤷

[glacial skiff]

But BRM was king

[oblique pike]

charge being on gcd didnt do much imo. ip being on cd wasn't a massive deal outside of being annoying. it just meant you spent less time pressing revenge which wasnt a huge deal defensively, just a small offensive nerf

[fringe marten]

Yeah I know at SOME point brew was mad hot...that's when Trell started getting well known because of Trellbrew.

[glacial skiff]

Nah both being on GCD was dumb

Like literal clown car design work

[oblique pike]

brm broke certain boss abilities namely argus scythe

[fringe marten]

jesus christ though...Legion seems like it was 10 years ago at this point LOL

..honestly warrior dealt with argus just fine too

[oblique pike]

fine, just like any other tank, just not as broken as brm

[fringe marten]

Brewmaster is generally going to always be the absolute best raid tank.

[orchid frigate]

so were playing double time next week? gonna miss good ol' storm bolt a bit 😦

[chilly brook]

Scythe existed?

[fringe marten]

Unless the core mechanic of how they manage damage changes, or substantially changes the amount at which they do it.

[chilly brook]

You must not have played a prot warrior on argus

[glacial skiff]

BRM isn’t the best this tier lmao

[chilly brook]

You could actually delete that as a mechanic pretty much

[fringe marten]

Brewmasters core design turns damage into a large sustained DoT..then DELETES chunks of the DoT. Literally REMOVING damage from the game, instead of mitigating it. Like...WHAT?

[glacial skiff]

That’s mitigation

[oblique pike]

mitigating damage is literally the same thing as removing damage from the agme

[glacial skiff]

Yep

[oblique pike]

you're describing all mitigation

[next pelican]

mitigating damage deletes it from the game

[polar radish]

What do yo think mitigation means

[glacial skiff]

Lmao

[fringe marten]

Kek maybe not, but as the game progresses ...they always stay very strong due to how they manage damage.

[next pelican]

brew is just normal mitigation with extra steps

and up all the time

[glacial skiff]

True, but I think time and changes will determine how BRM plays out

[orchid frigate]

they take away the damage from the game and inserts it into IRL

[oblique pike]

brew also generally requires the most healing

[glacial skiff]

I like BRM but I didn’t like them reigning supreme

[median tulip]

Brewmaster's main advantage is that they are easy for healers to keep up, due to smoothing the damage intake

[glacial skiff]

However they’ve always been mediocre in m+

[fringe marten]

Maybe, that's true...but the idea of actually removing it, instead of reducing it via a % damage reduction....somehow bothers me a TREMENDOUS amount.

[glacial skiff]

Or just middle pack

[oblique pike]

i haven't liked brm since they changed stagger removal to 50%

[plush saffron]

brews dont smooth damage a lot anymore

[glacial skiff]

That’s kinda how BRM is designed

They can only stagger so much before they splat. It’s not actually miles better than other tanks mitigation

[fringe marten]

So as I said, unless they alter the amount they deal with stagger and purifying brew or whatever? But I guess they did...so they're not as strong.

[royal sorrel]

Reprisal still the way to go even with that 4 seconds nerf?

[orchid frigate]

4 seconds nerf?

[young glen]

2 second nerf

[royal sorrel]

ye sry my bad

[median tulip]

Survey says yes. and it's only a 2s nerf

[royal sorrel]

4 seconds overall

[orchid frigate]

theyre nerfing time now as well?

[young glen]

Ye. We get Chromie specc

[glacial skiff]

The issue is when it’s imbalanced allowing a skilled BRM or even mediocre BRM player ignore tank busters by only staggering it with brew

[royal sorrel]

Shieldblock which is gained from the Legendary now last 4 seconds instead of 6

[glacial skiff]

But from what I remember it’s harder to properly stagger max damage in SL for BRM

And they have actual tank CD’s

[fringe marten]

I ..would actually, completely..be 100% ok...with them fully removing all pvp activities from the game, and deleting every single other possible tank class. and the patch notes be "Back to vanilla tanking balance you fucks...pvp is for mongos, go play CoD" and doubling the subscription fee.

[young glen]

So you want to play fury

[glacial skiff]

Before BRM had only like 2 tank CD’s. One which only worked on one hit and required you to channel

[fringe marten]

..then WoW would be like driving at 3 am...cold, and quiet..and no one else around. Just how I like it.

[oblique pike]

its not that imbalanced. a mediocre brm player CAN survive longer without using their mitigation properly, but will put a higher strain on healers

[glacial skiff]

The other not being real strong but also having a 7 min CD

[orchid frigate]

ah, felt like it was going to be nerfed somehow

[next pelican]

brew is pretty weak defensively right now

celestial brew cd too high

[jagged pier]

well yer because if was any lower it would be busted

[next pelican]

they do a lot of damage though

[oblique pike]

imo brewmaster just currently suffer from too small an hp pool, along with DK

[young glen]

BrM is fine tbh

[chilly brook]

Brm is fine

Just isn't braindead

Actually requires thought and skill kekw

[glacial skiff]

I think warrior required most skill for the longest time

[oblique pike]

their kit just has buttons they dont care about pressing, but do becauuse theres nothing else to do

[median tulip]

Honestly it's a pretty minor nerf. It amounts to 10s less SB/min, or about 50 Rage-worth of Block, which when the legendary is worth 300 Rage for the rage economy isn't a major nerf.

[glacial skiff]

As a raid tank anyway.

[orchid frigate]

goodie 🙂

[glacial skiff]

Also anyone agree Paladin is literally the easiest tank to play?

[oblique pike]

druid by far easiest tank to play

[orchid frigate]

^

[young glen]

Until you get godsmacked to death as a Pally

[glacial skiff]

I’ve consistently tanked harder content with lower gear

[chilly brook]

https://youtu.be/oWe8UWTn_ho@oblique pike

[glacial skiff]

Haven’t in SL, but at least in BFA

I need to level an alt lmao

[chilly brook]

Brew is literally fine

[jagged pier]

druid is 2 buttons do i have enough rage to IF no pres thrash

[young glen]

Dk may be interesting with their dancing runeweapon leggo being buffed

[fringe marten]

So is prot warrior...however, they STILL obviously saw "hey..warrior needs 10% more damage, and 20% more on Thunderclap..."

That has to tell ya' something.

[glacial skiff]

That’s lame. It was more “complex” in BFA

[young glen]

Imho a good druid is being judged on how well he does owl/catweave

[glacial skiff]

Depending on talent combo etc

Also Druid was kinda crap in BFA

[fringe marten]

Shurriq...top damage guardian druid does not have to shape shift.

[glacial skiff]

I think I need to just level a Druid to convoke some fools

[oblique pike]

probably true, too bad i play braindead venthyr guardian druid who defaults resto aff

[fringe marten]

Yeah, druid truthfully was a bit weak in BFA, that's why they gave them ursol's vortex and some other stuff.

[next pelican]

moonkin convoking is really important for damage

[glacial skiff]

And they’re like 2nd best m+ tank atm right?

[young glen]

Umm. What?

[orchid frigate]

oh boy how I played my cards wrong. still doesn't feel like VDH is getting any worse to play. here i was thinking even before launch that they would be brought into line more

[young glen]

If you're not weaving you're not playing the class to full potential. Simple

[chilly brook]

Lmao

[fringe marten]

I dunno..? maybe he does... I just never notice it. His top damage is Moonfire or whatever? so it probably is.

[oblique pike]

is this legion? is he playing moonfire cleave build?

[chilly brook]

Dorki fuckin pops into boomie all the time mid pull in dungeons

[oblique pike]

omg my dream bear build was the arcane bear in legion

[fringe marten]

Yes in M+ I know I've seen guardians do convoke shifts.

[chilly brook]

In raid you're trolling if you dont

Like actually trolling

[oblique pike]

in raids, you need to be catweaving to dps while not tanking

[chilly brook]

Especially with HotW

No lmao

[oblique pike]

not just with convoke

[chilly brook]

You owl weave

Owlweaving is more dps

[fringe marten]

I dunno; I just know that on a mythic kill I'll do like 3.2k dps..and our guardian will do like 3.4..and I never see him shift.

[chilly brook]

Theres a reason no resto druids play feral affinity anymore

[fringe marten]

so I dunno?

[next pelican]

so you mean he can do more

[young glen]

Which is why top guardians will do 5k at Huntsman or 4.5k at destroyer

[fringe marten]

I even asked "uhh..couldn't you convoke shift while I"m the on tank? like I'll start and you just open with convoke?" and he said "not with this build.."

[young glen]

Because. Weave.

[fringe marten]

so? I dunno.

[next pelican]

he's a lazy boy

[oblique pike]

or just bad

[fringe marten]

Yeah I always thought they should be owl or cat weaving..and if they COULD convoke, they should.

No he lazy af..i've always known that.

But I thought if he could convoke shift, he would.

[plush saffron]

can do bulk dmg in m+ as bear if you keep sunfire up

[oblique pike]

that's like 2 gcds spent on form swapping

[young glen]

So you're saying you have a guardian that does not go Owlweave at Sludgefist during pillars?

[fringe marten]

Not super surprising. I rarely look at logs but when I do, i'll have a 96 or a 98%..and he'll be way lower...so I figured something was off (I think that's when I asked him about the convoke, because I never see him do it)

oh 100% no..he was necrolord at start of xpac...he finally joined the LameGang like a month ago.

[oblique pike]

I've tried playing owl aff in m+, but i always feel more useful being able to wild growth + swiftmend during very specific parts of dungeons. and not being NF makes me benefit less from being owl aff.

[austere cave]

guardian is just easy to play defensively. If you want to live you live. But its hard to master the class to its full potential

it is just very versatily. More so as nightfae

[fringe marten]

I think he's always just wanted to stay with the...being as mindlessly durable as possible for raid progression. In his defense...it's fine; and the tanking has never held us back from any progression. It's always heal checks or dps'ers failing mechanics hard.

[sage rivet]

is the war meta for next 9.0.5?

[oblique pike]

doubt it

[young glen]

Why would it

[fringe marten]

Hm...the changes to necrolord are? ok... Doesn't seem more compelling than kyrian to me atm. I'd have to look at the completed soulbind trees.

[valid zodiac]

So we're still rocking the same defensive conduits now with Reprisal in mind?

[strong forum]

Prolly swapping out unnerving focus

[fringe marten]

the changes to the flesh craft look cool; and using it as a defensive buff is..? eh? 20% DR...but you channel for 3 seconds. ? Does not blow my skirt up.

[valid zodiac]

What would you swap it for?

[strong forum]

Prolly a finesse conduit

Like safeguard

Cuz you're gonna intervene alot more

[valid zodiac]

Well I'm locked into two defensive since I play Niya

[strong forum]

Cringe

Then prolly stay with unnerving

So last stand turns into a good defensive CD

[fringe marten]

During prog on council tonight..to 'try' it..I swapped to Kleia and ran safeguard, and was intervening cotank on cd. Would have to use a different path on pelagos and change out one of the finesse to run it.

[valid zodiac]

I mean I could go the other branch of Niya that gives a chance on spells to proc 5% haste buff but then I'd lose burzzz

[strong forum]

Na don't do that

Not worth it

[fringe marten]

Pelagos would be deleted from existence...if I could swap Kleia and his 'signature' skill. Valiant strikes on kleia is..SO SO bad.

[strong forum]

Yeah kleia is kinda meh

[valid zodiac]

But I'm really pumped for the reset to get the changes in.

[jagged pier]

she has THICCCCC THIGHS tho

[fringe marten]

No..she's awesome..her whole tree ( the passives ) are pretty good...EXCEPT for her signature top skill, which is MONSTROUS trash.

[strong forum]

I won't get to use the dmg buff for logging tho

We're gonna extend ;^(

[jagged pier]

same

[fringe marten]

We started extending last week.

[jagged pier]

[fringe marten]

er...THIS week

[next pelican]

we extend after sun king prob

[jagged pier]

fuking council 9% on wednesday

ppl started panicing with the dance

ggs

[fringe marten]

We got to p3 tonight after a handful of attempts...but aren't getting there smooth each time.

[jagged pier]

after 9 and a bit mins

[fringe marten]

I didn't even really get a chance to tank the garg much..so I still don't know what the REAL part of the fight will be like.

Bear had garg when it dropped...raid FKN COLLAPSED...that was that.

[jagged pier]

im on boss final phase

jesus 9 stacks of riposte

[fringe marten]

you gonna' have to swap

[jagged pier]

it gets spicy

nah u dont

so the other tank takes it till the add spawns

[fringe marten]

are they that scared of killing a gargoyle?

[jagged pier]

we dont kill

[fringe marten]

our plan is..kill first garg

[jagged pier]

just kite it out

[fringe marten]

then kite to death second

[strong forum]

That's very early 👀

[jagged pier]

we had that

[next pelican]

we killed xymox and inerva

[jagged pier]

but we have too much damage

we may as well just kite the first one

[fringe marten]

hm..welp..ok.

[strong forum]

Why would you do sks last, he's such an easy boss

[next pelican]

our healer team has been less sthan stable

[strong forum]

F

[next pelican]

we did inerva first

[pastel vector]

Okay so i have a question. Im swapping to tank for our guild again (and have to switch coveneants from Venthyr)

[strong forum]

Have to?

[pastel vector]

Since i have to redo renown, is Necrolord worth it for prot come next week?

[jagged pier]

yu dont have to

you can be any cov u want now

[next pelican]

if you have some boomies or mages you can simp for yes

[jagged pier]

as necros in line with the rest

[next pelican]

i think

[pastel vector]

lemm rephrase, WANT to swap

[fringe marten]

Today guardian dropped..and I had to hold the 2 bosses until another dance phase; after frieda died. Had 6 lunges and 4 ripostes..and both on me. so? I guess you could just do Niklaus to 9 stacks.

But...yeah that's gonna' get ridiculous.

[sweet summit]

Are you raiding later this week?

Brodda

[pastel vector]

I raid sunday so ill be up to par on renown by then

[strong forum]

NF for dps pump
Venthyr for raid exclusive pump
Kyrian for general use and most defensive play
Necro for simp and prolly max raid dps

[sweet summit]

Just go for it now then

[jagged pier]

well after 9 stacks its dance, then its finally half of the boss so the other tank can take for like a min till the add spawns then u go to 9 again and the boss 'should' be dead

[fringe marten]

And what is trying to kite the gargoyle? a DH?

[pastel vector]

Well thats why i was making the decision, if Necro is gonna be our go-to anyways i might as well start it now y'know?

[jagged pier]

prolly max raid dps if u can make it work everytime to full effect

[jagged pier]

yer

hes getting better now hes done it a few times

[fringe marten]

yeah it's not easy to do that

I mean..you're rarely if ever meant to kite a raid boss like that.

[jagged pier]

nah be hes does it now very consistently not all the time but a lot of the time

and we are playing round a resz on me if the fight goes on for too long

[modern tundra]

you can also BoP the stacks off if you want to. Makes the phase pretty trivial for the tanking part atleast

[fringe marten]

yeah a lot of the time...he gets whopped.

[sweet summit]

We wont know until the new raid is out

[fringe marten]

Will bop clear the riposte stacks?

[modern tundra]

yes

[fringe marten]

I didn't think they'd cleanse it...hm. Could be useful.

[outer bronze]

if ur guild is coordinated enough that you will organise your banner well everytime then go necro

[sweet summit]

But as of now, necrolord is looking strong in organized raid groups

[jagged pier]

nah grips leaps, lock portal, shammy totems, druid roars have a lot to keep him running, and no idea we dont have a paly so cant use it anyway

[fringe marten]

I have my NoBop macro I've had for years so..might get used again~

[outer bronze]

if ur just average guild with low coord then dont bother imo

[jagged pier]

☝️

[pastel vector]

Looks like its only 2 people getting buffed? O.o

[outer bronze]

you and 2 others

[jagged pier]

always has been 2 ppl

[rich helm]

necro ❤️

[fringe marten]

Without seeing the full soulbind trees; Necrolord isn't strong enough to compel me post changes; the covenant button..isn't a damage button. And the signature ability is nice for a couple people? every 2 mins...at the cost of the ability to heal myself, cure necrotic, cure a handful of raid mechanics (and likely upcoming raid mechanics)

But at least it looks very useful...and not just like trash

[jagged pier]

emminiinininiinis fine

the rest are garbo

[rich helm]

necro is the BIS cov. when u play in a group where u can talk and communicate properly<

[cosmic oasis]

its a 3m cd if ur simping for boomies

[jagged pier]

^^

[sweet summit]

Fuck em

[fringe marten]

My guild can speak and communicate just fine...this is what they will say "DUBBA WUBBA DUB..BUUUHH? ERRR??? BANNER CONVOKE COMBUST GOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!"

and then I will say "fuck your parse mongo.."

[sick sentinel]

So with 9.0.5 coming out next week and the official patch notes coming out it means we made it with reprisal?!?!

[sweet summit]

Kinda

[low timber]

Kinda

[sweet summit]

It got nerfed

[sharp sun]

Itgot changed

[sick sentinel]

Oh fuck how

[sweet summit]

He SB is only 4 instead of the 6 it used to be

[outer bronze]

4 sec shield block down from 6

[sweet summit]

But still a great lego

[sick sentinel]

Oof

[sharp sun]

Reprisal has been redesigned – Charge and Intervene grant you Shield Block for 4 seconds, Revenge!, and generates 20 Rage.

[sick sentinel]

Still gonna be BiS for mythic+

But yea damn

[smoky wave]

I don't feel like the change did anything to it's power other than make it more irritating to use.

[sweet summit]

Ya most likely

[smoky wave]

it's like "we'll buff you, but we'll make it a pita"

[sick sentinel]

They just had to sneak that in there haha

[sharp sun]

Flat 10% aura and another 10% on thunderclap sounds nice though

😄

[sick sentinel]

Yea that is nice

[sweet summit]

Defo is

[jagged pier]

i myself will not be switching unless its really necessary

[fringe marten]

dude that's insane no matter what, 20 rage, free revenge and block...and that's all within 2 globals...which is the charge, then revenge global...

and that 20 rage will be..ANOTHER revenge..

and block will STILL be up.

[sick sentinel]

Yea it’s gonnna be nuts

It’s releasing sooner than I thought though for sure

[fringe marten]

you wouldn't have had to burn the 30 rage on block yet..and you've blocked, revenged twice.

[rich helm]

2m

[jagged pier]

boomies cds are 3mins

[fringe marten]

The actual..and oddly? weird downside to it...is you won't be spending the 30 rage on block, which is off GCD...which would be pushing down avatar/shield wall faster..if you ran AM.

[cosmic oasis]

they dont convoke without CA

[jagged pier]

hence why hes said if your simping for a boomkin

which is likely to be the case

with banner

to get full use out of it

[sick sentinel]

If we already got KSM on one toon does the gear upgrades work for them or is per toon?

[jagged pier]

i dont think we know yet

[sick sentinel]

Like I have to get +15s on each toon? Lol

[flint wraith]

If i go necro for tanking - on warr but want to do some pvp on the side - just so i am prepared - is necro shit for pvp even with changes?

[jagged pier]

knowing blizz per char tho like rating gear in pvp

[jagged pier]

nah necro will be good for pvp now

not as good as condemn and exploiter

but decent at least

[sick sentinel]

Yea it’ll be decent

[flint wraith]

As long as it is decent enough for like 1600

[sick sentinel]

Yup

[flint wraith]

Rest should be doable with valor points

[sick sentinel]

Easy

[fringe marten]

I wouldn't use banner to line up with convoke, on my OWN...out of sheer principle at this point. Seriously...the amount of arguments and discussion about when PI should be given, why...where the mob needs to be pulled, where the boomkin will stand...etc etc...ALL to cottle ONE FUCKING ABILITY. You can straight SMD with convoke; I'll use banner for my Firemans mage if anything....and I THOUGHT I was sick of hearing about combust in BFA.

[sick sentinel]

The reason I won’t go Necro is purely to avoid being a new PI for the group haha

[jagged pier]

thats the point of buffing other ppl tho u have to use it when it get maximum usage otherwise u loose value

[fringe marten]

I've never in the time i've been raid MT'ing seen one ability..from one class, get babied and catered to SO much that it's seriously altering raid strategies.

[flint wraith]

Just almost seem to good to miss out on

[jagged pier]

yer now it will be PI the banner buffed ppl

[fringe marten]

(I know jake, and I ALSO know that if I went necro it would of course be lined up with convoke..and combust..at the start of EVERY pull)

[sick sentinel]

If you’re running a coordinate group I can see necro being solid but if you pug a lot like me

Ehhhh idk

[jagged pier]

^^ have fun standing at range at pull if you swap everyone btw

[austere cave]

you cant line it up on pull for both cds cause most boomys delay convoke 20 seconds because of double on use

[fringe marten]

You get that right? Literally...instead of charging the boss and being the first 'on' tank like I usually am...my job will LITERALLY BE 'Stand ..exactly here...where I can convoke and only hit the boss...ok...go"

They're lining it up with their moon phase..crap? whatever..they have an opener I know

Doesn't matter...Not doing that shit.

[flint wraith]

Tbh

[austere cave]

not really they line it up with both stat trinkets and thats what makes them do those omega convokes

[flint wraith]

if you have double unholy

they can benefit just as much from the mastery

[somber compass]

u dont, it will be acc wide

[subtle geyser]

So, which covenant will be the BiS for raiding? 🤔 On my guild are saying necro, but I don't think so

[sick sentinel]

@somber compass Nice!

[low timber]

Go necro in exchange for feet pics from the whole guild

[sick sentinel]

For raid it’s gonna be necro for sure

[fringe marten]

So from a purely defensive stand point..and if all you do is raid? Yeah necrolord probably is the best.

[somber compass]

the better question is, what cov will be best for m+ guys

yea for raid necro no question

[rich helm]

necro is bis, most ppl wont play it because they dont wanna support that much, they wanna do more dmg themselves

[jagged pier]

have fun moving out to range

[sick sentinel]

Even max from limit said with the new banner it’ll probably be the go to tank for raid mechanics

[flint wraith]

Even for m+

necro will be good - if you have a coordinated push group

otherwise i gues nf or kyrian?

[sick sentinel]

Like world first groups will def have them

[rich helm]

most ppl are just mad about it that they need to be buff bots

[fringe marten]

Nik it's not even that...the truth is I would love to bring more utility to the table. But not if it comes at the expense of me literally going to engage the boss and do my tanking shiz

[rich helm]

u have a jump , u know that right ?

[fringe marten]

yeah..it's my space bar.

[flint wraith]

i think in principle it wont be that bad in m+

stand at range

drop banner

go in

[fringe marten]

You aren't possibly consider me burning heroic leap

[somber compass]

So u think Necro will be better as kyr ? if u already got an kyr in your grp ANDF u play coordinated ?

[flint wraith]

mage and boomie can just stay?

[fringe marten]

to engage the boss

after I buff 2 assholes off to the side of teh raid?

[flint wraith]

jep

[fringe marten]

you wouldn't possibly..EVER b e saying that right?

[rich helm]

in an optimal scenario, necro has the best DPS in Raid and M+

[subtle geyser]

I'm usually looking for the most defensive one 🤔

[flint wraith]

well FC is now 20% dr

[rich helm]

after all, it isnt just the banner, you also have a freakin 40% HP shield

[fringe marten]

Me..charge..do damage..build threat..build rage..kill boss. Me...give 400 mastery to 2 monkey cocksuckers who are fighting for the top of the meter? No contest..fuck those idiots...we can kill EVERY BOSS without that, just fine.

[somber compass]

just cause of the pure mechanical side of necro so i mean the new fleshcraft and banner buffs ?

[subtle geyser]

that's true

[austere cave]

if you have a coordinated push group in m+ you will go for the cov your group is lacking

[sand condor]

i've already bribed my boomkin officers

that if i get a main tank spot

i'll go necro to buff them

[strong forum]

Interesting how many new names pop up now

[jagged pier]

[north trout]

hello I'm new :)

[sand condor]

Hi new

I'm Vic

[scarlet halo]

To Necro or not to Necro that is the question

[somber compass]

im new here btw : HI

xD

[sand condor]

Hi new here btw

I'm Vic

[pastel vector]

ive been here ,-, i just get thrown around with what spec my guild needs me as and now im back to tanking >.<

[sweet summit]

[somber compass]

was roq main but switiching to prot now

[ionic fern]

Hi, i'm new as well.

[sweet summit]

Hi

[ionic fern]

Is prot good yet?

[sand condor]

[sweet summit]

No

[ionic fern]

Ok

[sand condor]

prot always good

[ionic fern]

BYe

[scarlet halo]

nah its pants

[sweet summit]

Bye

[ebon hound]

Bye

[sand condor]

comunity perspective bad

[jagged pier]

Mwahi tell me what to play next week

[scarlet halo]

waiting for classic to get to BFA .3 to play prot again

[subtle geyser]

I've been here for long, but I play the needed tank always and usually I don't talk too much, rn playing dh 😂

[sand condor]

heresy

[ionic fern]

For keys?
Seismic/BSC/AM/X

[scarlet halo]

pew pew

[subtle geyser]

I want to be a turtlebear 😢

[strong forum]

Yes dude

[sand condor]

ohyes

siesmic bsc am isn;t trolling anymore?

lets go

[ionic fern]

In any dangerous content it still is. 😂

[sand condor]

got it

so it's trolling

[fringe marten]

But that aside...me, as a tank, having another self heal/ability cure, and more damage. Makes me a better more flexible tank..than just having a cooldown that helps 2 dps, and a shield that will mitigate some damage...every few minutes. If Necrolord had a good damage boost, or better damage covenant ability and was better for M+ I'd prob swap.

[sand condor]

dont care

still doing it

[sick sentinel]

Yes

[scarlet halo]

Seismic is great if its easy

[fringe marten]

yeah it'll be great damage.

[torpid cliff]

400 mastery + 15% str boost for yourself is not a damage boost? 🧐

[jagged pier]

well mastery is not great for us

[strong forum]

On a 2min CD

[pastel vector]

So are we looking at running Unstoppable over ravager now with the TC buffs?

[ionic fern]

Or...hear me out..get the mastery from Pelagos on a 1 minute CD.

[strong forum]

When spear and AA are 1min CD and offer similar mastery

[fringe marten]

It wouldn't be a ton diff? yeah..no i still is... Tlords brings up a 20% DR a lot more often too

[jagged pier]

like necro is now inline is it the best probably not

[fringe marten]

Mastery is amazing for prot..what? LOL

[jagged pier]

☝️

i mean its our worst stat out of the 4 🤷

[fringe marten]

Mastery scales so well for us it's wild.

for damage.

[scarlet halo]

We will get multiple shields and dmg reduction from Necro during bosses but only one Kyri pot?

[strong forum]

It doesn't

[austere cave]

BfA Bastion of might would like to have a word with you about the value of mastery

[jagged pier]

and its was only high for us because in sims we had arms deep wounds

crit is our best dps stat now

[fringe marten]

that's then..this is now~ can't cry about what we lost. (but I still do)

[strong forum]

Mastery scaled so well because of a bug in simc that was fixed months ago

[fringe marten]

it still does.

[strong forum]

Not rly

[jagged pier]

^^

[strong forum]

It's my worst stat

And I have like 0 mastery

[fringe marten]

even fairly small amounts of mastery boost our mastery % a substantial amount, and give very solid attack power gains.

[scarlet halo]

They kind of made all but Haste/Vers bad for us this time around right?

[strong forum]

Sim says no

[subtle geyser]

It's like building mastery on a BDK 😂 not very worth it

[jagged pier]

sims does say no to mastery

[strong forum]

No they're all good, but mastery is the least good

👍

[jagged pier]

☝️

[pastel vector]

when we sim, are we still just simming dps? Thats really all we can sim for tanks right

[strong forum]

Ye

[jagged pier]

yup

[scarlet halo]

so positive, I'll take my glass half empty attitude out 😄

[strong forum]

Well but it's true Radcon, we want many stats > better stats

[jagged pier]

like okay this is only IMO when it comes to covs next week
Kyrian >= NF > necro> venthyr
which is still sad as i still want to be venthyr

[strong forum]

So mastery is still good if its an ilvl upgrade

[pastel vector]

I guess the next question is how we looking for legendaries with the changes?

[fringe marten]

OH NOOOOOooo LOL...Venthyr gargoyle charm gettin' FUXED

[jagged pier]

rep and seimic

[strong forum]

Reprisal m+ / niche raid bosses
Wall in raid
Seismic for m+ big damage

[sharp sun]

I'm glad I just spent my soul ash on Seismic for lols without noting I need to now get Reprisal first xD

[steep lake]

so 9.0.5 is coming next week or am I misunderstanding?

[jagged pier]

i dont want it for gargoyle charm i just like the covenant the most but cant bring myself to play it just because its not great its okay for us but spear or AA are just far better

[sick sentinel]

Haste and mastery forever ! 🙂

[sweet summit]

Next week ye

[scarlet halo]

same here

[sharp sun]

@steep lake I assume so, PTR is a release candidate now

[sick sentinel]

I'm trying to work Reprisal out in my head to keep SB up and it seems like a lot of jumping/charging around like a crack head

[ionic fern]

Yes.

[sharp sun]

I tend to intervene fairly often anyway, so it'll just slide into my usual play 😄

[fringe marten]

Oh no I know Jakey..just saying, was starting to read the dungeon changes and the first one is "You know the best reason to be venthyr if you're a M+ player? GET SHIT ON"

[jagged pier]

nah not even that just fear and walk out or intervene

[ionic fern]

Depends if you are running Double Time or not.
You usually start a new pack with a Charge anyways so you just get the benefit from there.

[sick sentinel]

I mean I do too, but....Charge, SB, intervene, SB, leap/charge?

[jagged pier]

i just want my red armour and blade on my back

[sick sentinel]

I would be Mwahi, yea

[ionic fern]

And if you're not running Double time then you just INtervene and repeat on next pack

[scarlet halo]

Double Time becomes a big deal with Reprisal right?

[smoky wave]

out of curiosity, how good are the necro dungeon abilities? I have no idea what they even are. There's banners, but no idea what they do.

[sick sentinel]

Yea with double time I doubt it'll be bad

[fringe marten]

rogue in guild is..1700/1800? we run together a bunch.. he's solid; he changed to venthyr a week ago or so; because no one in our groups is EVER venthyr. So we are fighting uphill battles in HoA and sanguine to a degree. The venthyr buff in SD is..? nice but missable.

[sharp sun]

If you intervene out and charge back in, will the shield block duration stack?

[sick sentinel]

Charge in, use SB CDs when I need, leap out and charge when needed

[sweet summit]

Banners in ToP are pog as fuck. Plaguefall is nice but not as great

[sick sentinel]

intervenes when neede

d

[ionic fern]

Yes.

[sharp sun]

Noice

[sick sentinel]

Damn , that is nice

[scarlet halo]

wow that is nice

[sweet summit]

I guess with the fleshcraft change its better since you auto consume corpses now i think

In PF

[dense gate]

Will we hold demoralising shout for SB downtime or just send it on cd?

[solemn ferry]

Hey, how is the new nerf likely to affect the state of Reprisal ?

down to 4 from 6 s ?

[ionic fern]

Just a PSA about Reprisal: You now have to start watching out for overcapping Shield Block otherwise you risk wasting a charge of SB.

[sick sentinel]

I think we would send it

[sweet summit]

Full send on cd

[sick sentinel]

For rage? If youre BV

[fringe marten]

I hit demo shout on cd...every single time...I haven't had to hold it as a 'defensive' CD in a really long time.

[sick sentinel]

@solemn ferry It will be more annoying, but I doubt substantial

Still good AF

[solemn ferry]

Fair enough 🙂

[karmic plinth]

is there a cap for shield block uptime?

[sick sentinel]

Yea my SB tracker is getting upped in size a little

to watch it like a HAWK lol

[sweet summit]

18 seconds without bolster

[fringe marten]

18 seconds, stand alone...if you could basically trigger 3 back to back blocks (+200% of base duration)

[sick sentinel]

I think we're going AM though with Reprisal so 18 sec is what we gert

get*

[valid zodiac]

Is it that much of a loss if we intervene out and charge back in without using the free revenge from the intervene?

[austere cave]

easy fix -> play with a melee 😄

[patent marlin]

So I guess reprisal will now be the go to for m+ despite the small nerf, what is the conclusion regarding kyrian vs necro for m+ context?

[fringe marten]

Schnubbers yeah... It's warbringer all over again!

C'mon..who remembers warbringer stun?

Had that shit macro'd to our guild rogue I ran with a lot.

Warbringer was the shit.

[sick sentinel]

@patent marlin Yes on Reprisal and then the necro/kyrian thing is really preference. If you're with a coordinated group that can benefit from Necro then it could be worth it, if you're pugging a lot....probably not so much.

[jagged pier]

unless u have a very coordinated group kyrain will be better

[lofty widget]

about that reprisal nerf, how big do we reckon it will be?

[unique shale]

Damage of all abilities increased by 10%. Damage of Thunder Clap increased by an additional 10%.

[jagged pier]

gives 4 secs of SB instead of 6 so not big nerf at all

[lofty widget]

so our overall block uptime will still be very high, right?

[jagged pier]

yus

[glacial skiff]

Why would you do that? Use the revenge proc it’s free. Plus you’ll get enough rage for SB from charge with reprisal anyway

[lofty widget]

sweeeet

[jagged pier]

like im pretty the numbers mwahi did were without intervene could be wrong tho

[fringe marten]

NOOOOooooo

They nerfed my Legion trinket I still use.

[lofty widget]

yea i remember him saying that as well

[austere cave]

how much block uptime are we talking without doubletime? I really dont want to lose stormbolt

[unique shale]

damage increase apply to condemn as well ?

[fringe marten]

It took them years and they finally realized it.

[glacial skiff]

Without double time I don’t know if reprisal would be the play tbh

It’s still good but you’d kinda be gimping yourself

[fringe marten]

I had a sick hunger of the pack trinket from a ? 15 or 17 or something in legion...and I've kept it and used it through leveling and in places like Visions of Nzoth..etc.

They are finally nerfing it.

[jagged pier]

i used it to lvl this expansion

[glacial skiff]

Plus you have 4 others on your team. Run the conduit that reduces shockwave CD

[fringe marten]

Me too!

I used to do visions of nzoth with it

[austere cave]

My problem is our group is lacking singletarget control on mobs. But i guess that you have to work around that somehow

[fringe marten]

and some other rando content crap

[jagged pier]

u have a group??? that would be the dream

[fringe marten]

I think mine has leech or something like that on it too.

[next pelican]

yea I used it in the maw on launch

[fringe marten]

^^

[jagged pier]

pugging higher and higher keys is starting to get hard

[fringe marten]

yup...it's in my bags right now

I haven't used it in a while; but yeah..used it in maw.

OH and used it in uhh..? Torghast

[glacial skiff]

I can understand that, but the shockwave CD reduction conduit plus intimidating shout should be enough

[austere cave]

ya but tanking on guardian right now cause i need to be balance for raid 😄

[fringe marten]

OHH!!! that's why it's on their radar...there's a bunch of folks using it in torghast.

For maw pre mount...Warmachine + hunger of pack...and torghast, War machine and Hunger of pack.

I haven't done torghast in 2 or so weeks...can't be bothered =\ didn't care about soul ash.

[sharp sun]

On a side note I finally managed an in-time +10 last night, I am a big boy tonk now 🤣

[strong forum]

Huge

[jagged pier]

the biggest of BOIs

[delicate thorn]

@sharp sun good job, I have not had the courage to do an M+ at all yet

[pastel vector]

sorry i think i missed it in the wall of text. Are we looking at Unstoppable Force now in M+ with the TC buffs?

[sharp sun]

It's all I do, so probably not as good of an achievement in that context :p

[pastel vector]

or is Ravager just outright gonna be better still

[jagged pier]

hopefully not but we see what Mwahi finds out form his testing

[sharp sun]

Oh sweet the upgrade system kicks in next week also then doesnt it

Winning

[royal sorrel]

There is no real difference between crafting reprisal on legs or feet or am i wrong?

[pastel vector]

it does but does the whole upgrading thing still apply to only NEW gear?

[sharp sun]

Surely lehs are more base stats?

[strong forum]

Legs has way higher stat budget

[sharp sun]

But im clueless

[jagged pier]

stats so u want them on legs @royal sorrel l

[royal sorrel]

thx!

[sharp sun]

@pastel vector yeah think so

[sweet summit]

Only gear u got after 9.0.5 @pastel vector

[sharp sun]

But its an improvement at least going forwards

[jagged pier]

not gear from the vault in the first week tho

[pastel vector]

big sad

[strong forum]

You can't upgrade gear from vault period

From what I've read

So double cuck

[jagged pier]

oh is it period? i thought it was just form the first week

could have misread

[strong forum]

I didn't read, only read the title

I could be wrong

[jagged pier]

[royal sorrel]

Seismic on Head or Shoulders? 😄

[sweet summit]

Head

[jagged pier]

^^

[royal sorrel]

thx a lot guys 🙂

[patent osprey]

I think you craft reprisal on boots if you mythic raid since M SLG has 233 legs

if u don't then legs is good

I like seismic on shoulders cause its the same slot I use the wall in :)

[jagged pier]

im stilla while of SLG so 🤷 well 9% and 100% of sludge to go

[sweet summit]

But what if next tier gives us higher ilvl boots than legs? 👀

[jagged pier]

☝️

[craggy portal]

You can always craft a new leggo then

[patent osprey]

what if global warming is real and we never have a next tier :O

[sweet summit]

😔

[jagged pier]

Sadge

[patent osprey]

but yeah imma craft mine on boots

just cause I have 233 pants

[pastel vector]

gotta craft my Seis so i can do keys

[jagged pier]

u mean reprisal i think

[pastel vector]

O.o

No seis?

[jagged pier]

for damage sure but if your doing any difficult content in m+ reprisal will be the play, apart from maybe Dos where u take the wall

[pastel vector]

does the fact i have a Fmage and boomkin pushing keys make a difference

[jagged pier]

no

[pastel vector]

cuz i feel i cant generate threat for SHIT

[jagged pier]

repirsal gives free revenges to use

[strong forum]

That'd be pog

[jagged pier]

so threat should be an issue

i mean ive never had an issue with threat

[sweet summit]

Global warming is not pog!

[craggy portal]

Silly Pika, "global" warming implies the earth is round

[austere cave]

dont forget you get a blanked 10% dmg buff + 10% extra on clapper

[pastel vector]

30 second revenge proc > duplicated Revenge at 75?

[jagged pier]

i dunno killing us all seems like a good thing some of the time i wont have to wake up and work ever again

[pastel vector]

seems like the later would be better

[jagged pier]

i dunno as i said ive never had an issue with threat even running with 2 mages and a boomkin which i have done before

so i would only use seimic for the memes

you really should have threat issues a this point ever

[pastel vector]

i do like hell honestly

[jagged pier]

then you are playing incorrectly

[pastel vector]

SB as close to 100% uptime as i can. Shield slam on CD, and im assuming im just wasting too much Rage on IP?

[jagged pier]

probably yer

you really dont need IP up much until like 17s + imo

[pastel vector]

is IP even worth using at that point? or just use it to fill the SB hole

[jagged pier]

like i hardly press it in 15s

i usually get SB up and revenge

then

and ppl seem to for get bolster just allows u to spamm revenge

LS is basically a dps CD at this point

[ionic fern]

LS into Ravager into BV into revenge spam

This was my IP usage in the +15 i just did.

😂

[edgy kindle]

Hmm, hey guys, any thoughts on Heavy Repercussions talent with the Reprisal legendary? Seems like the talent should gain value if you have a higher SB uptime

[jagged pier]

not worth

[ionic fern]

You shouldn't need any of the extra block talents on the last row anymore with Reprisal (especially with DT) so you can opt for the more aggressive AM.

[pastel vector]

so at what point does IP actually get used then?

[lofty widget]

unblockable dmg/dmg smoother/rage dump?

[pastel vector]

i think the learning curve here is i played Prot in Legion when you spammed the fuck outta IP early

[austere cave]

is ravager still better than Unstoppable Force + AM?

[ionic fern]

1)When i have a DoT on me
2)When i have too much rage
3)When the majority of the damage is non blockable
4)When the healer is struggling to keep me up through SB then also dump into IP or leap away

[jagged pier]

well ignore pain is a lot weaker now, and TC does no damage so u dont only revenge when its free now you actually have to spend rage on it for your damage and threat and everything else rule of thumb if u need to be defensive i.e (none physical damage) u press IP if u dont u press revenge

you also have to use SW and LS to fill the gaps of no SB or u can at least

and as LS gives block

u can generally just spamm revenge as u get tones of rage form the conduit

[ionic fern]

This is with The Wall tho.

5 targets

[jagged pier]

yus rav still on top

[languid juniper]

with tc buff ?

pog

[sweet summit]

[jagged pier]

with UF it would play so clunky as u have to spend rage on revenge and IP would be hard

[ionic fern]

And then we have the new Seismic

[sweet summit]

[languid juniper]

oof

[jagged pier]

id still play rav there not gunna lie

[austere cave]

k pretty sure my talent setup wont change i guess even though it does less dmg cause it makes me flop in 17 18s

[merry ocean]

why is UF better with seismic then with the wall?

[jolly thistle]

conduit maybe

[jagged pier]

Mwahi does the math he doesnt need to explain

we just trust the numbers

[sudden current]

with the necro changes how viable is it for m+?

[languid juniper]

trust mwahi dont ask question

[sweet summit]

Very

[languid juniper]

[jolly thistle]

you can alternate between clap and revenge

[sweet summit]

Its not a must be

[strong forum]

Phew, ravager still better

[sweet summit]

But its finally playable

[jagged pier]

@sudden current inline with the rest probs just above venthyr but still slightly below the other 2 in m+

[jagged pier]

my reaction as well LUL

[pastel vector]

Gotcha makes sense. Thank you!!

[pastel vector]

Thank you as well, appreciate you both with the tips

[hexed rune]

How do you manage the banner buff in raid exactly?
Like how do you get the tank to pumpers while managing mechanics? People keep saying bis for raid

[languid juniper]

i barely managed to catchup renown on my war, gotta do it all over again

sadge

[strong forum]

Leap out onto the targets you have to buff

[jagged pier]

u wait for their cds and then go stand on them

[strong forum]

Use banner

Charge back in

[languid juniper]

you mean intervenee ? c:

[strong forum]

Leap is bigger range so I'd say that's better

[craggy portal]

Will necro actually be worth running over the other covenants in m+?

[strong forum]

Potentially

[jagged pier]

in a cordinated group maybe

[pastel vector]

already made the swap so we'll see next week

[raven kernel]

the banner is on you right? does the "nearest 2 allies" update dynamically as you move?

[jagged pier]

if u gunna pug probs not at all

[sweet summit]

Seems to snapshot allies on use

From what ive heard

[languid juniper]

just play only 2 range dds then no problemo (:

[sudden current]

it heavily buffs fire mage and boomkins anyway right x'D

[languid juniper]

not sure about firemage

🤔

[jagged pier]

in aoe it does mastery huge for them in aoe

[raven kernel]

if it doesnt snapshot then will be annoying to avoid the rogue

[lusty furnace]

what

Mastery is liek the worst stat for Fire in aoe

lol

[jagged pier]

that why they had mastery corruption in bfa

[lusty furnace]

no

lmao

[raven kernel]

thats only true for bfa jakey

not anymore now

[dense gate]

Mastery interaction was different in bfa

[lusty furnace]

Ignite isn't even close to what it was

[raven kernel]

fmage aoe dmg is not ignite anymore

[dense gate]

Used to be ignite for aoe combust now its flamestrike

[jagged pier]

do u think i care about specs i never play

no?

[languid juniper]

pi, priest night fae and now banner.
Gotta be a buff bitch

[lusty furnace]

Mastery is barely above Crit for me in AoE, both are miles behind Haste and Vers

[dense gate]

Care enough to simp for them with banner 😆

[jagged pier]

no?

i not going necro

[vestal mason]

I need a bit of advice here. I'm having issues with two big packs in DoS. It the ones with the big caster dude that does his knockback and the little dudes..

I go down quite fast on those packs... Any advice on how to handle it?

[jagged pier]

2 min cd with matery compard to 2 1min cds with mastery 🤔

[languid juniper]

kick big guy and run

[vestal mason]

Come on.... Really?

[jagged pier]

can go to the mask mob and the other trash till your cds are back up

but there not much u can do they melee with magic damage

[vestal mason]

So pray and hope that I don't die? 😅

[austere cave]

you ask for cc and kite

[smoky wave]

spell reflect the first, then kick and run. I set my dps on the big dude first but they're obedient.

[jagged pier]

well u pop your cds go in get aggro and kite

thats all u do on that pack always has been like that

[languid juniper]

even on monk peepocry

[austere cave]

no tank except druid facetanks these packs

But I've yet to die on my guardian during incarn

[jagged pier]

incar and trash 🤔

[strong forum]

Mastery is huge for warlock boomkin and hunter

Mages not so much

[craggy portal]

unholy dks too

[royal sorrel]

Sorry for asking but what does BSC, BV and TC stand for. Not playing with an english client :/

[strong forum]

Ah right dks

Forgot about those

[austere cave]

best served cold, booming voice, thunder clap

[languid juniper]

better served cold (revenge talent), booming voice, thunder clap

[hexed rune]

Hmm, my raid group is telling me not to take necro cause they think it'll be too difficult to pull off

[royal sorrel]

damn im feeling dumb right now 😄 thanks guys

[languid juniper]

play it make it work then c:

[sweet summit]

Isnt mastery like insane for SP too or

[languid juniper]

for ST its strong yeah

[sand condor]

anyone know the rough uptime

for SB with reprisal?

[jagged pier]

uptime

[sand condor]

%

ish

[jagged pier]

u mean blocked hits my man

[sand condor]

whatever you get me

nah man

[lusty furnace]

Ret likes Mastery in aoe I think as well

[sand condor]

i mean how long its up

can you get that sweet 100%

[ionic fern]

For all of you Necro re-rollers

[sand condor]

also

[silk edge]

Havnt been up to date last couple of weeks but i saw there will be a new best lego for m+ ? Worth saving soul ash for it or the wall is still better ?

[jagged pier]

why does that matter i can have sb up and kite and it contributes towards uptime even tho its doing nothing 🤔

[sand condor]

my old guild's prot warrior still think unbreakable will is good!

keepo

[sweet summit]

Hit him in the head

[languid juniper]

are the sim pages public yet ? 😦

[sand condor]

i have tried

[ionic fern]

Yes, anyone can sim

It's open source.

👀

[languid juniper]

you knew what i mean peepocry

me dumb me no want to

[ionic fern]

That was a PTR sim.

[strong forum]

That's quite a dps loss for playing necro ngl

[jagged pier]

☝️

[ionic fern]

Welp, NF is 3.2k

[sand condor]

i just

[ionic fern]

Kyrian is ~3k

[sand condor]

cba

[languid juniper]

play venthyr with reprisal because you have rage for exec 😻

[sand condor]

why do i try to help this man

[pastel vector]

based on damage, looks like we going a revenger build for M+

[proper crest]

well yeah but very decent damage increase for group, overall

[pastel vector]

[outer bronze]

burst damage > overall for a lot of raid encounters rn

[royal sorrel]

the 50% buff from BSC doesnt apply on the Reprisal procc or does it?

[outer bronze]

even if it was behind overall it may still be better

[strong forum]

Should

[pastel vector]

If it does... OP for sure

[sand condor]

okay stupid question

with anger management and the wall

[pastel vector]

There are no stupid questions

[ionic fern]

Damage isn't everything.
If you can get away with running Seismic then 100% do it.
In any higher difficulty content you will most likely still use Reprisal/The Wall.

[sand condor]

what's the rough cooldown on shieldwall

[languid juniper]

1min cd @sand condor

[sand condor]

meapojghnae

[jagged pier]

it should as it gives Revenge!

[pastel vector]

oogabooga smash 😭

[lusty furnace]

where does Venthyr end up if the others were ~2.9k, 3k and 3.2k?

[ionic fern]

1k cause i don't like Twilight

[strong forum]

[sweet summit]

👀

[languid juniper]

[jagged pier]

KEKW

[ionic fern]

In seriousness tho, Vent is still running.

[strong forum]

Theoretical max currently is 3.3k, I assume as venthyr

[languid juniper]

covenantless prot pally is more than that

[strong forum]

Yes.

[sweet summit]

[strong forum]

Big news

[sand condor]

hope venth gets big pog numbers

on ST

[steep lake]

though BSC says "when your successful dodges or parries make it cost no rage"

so would that work with reprisal?

[sweet summit]

Venthyr will be big numbers on ST

[steep lake]

maybe just outdated tooltip

[lofty widget]

i doubt it

[strong forum]

Tooltips aren't always accurate

[merry ocean]

dont trust tooltips

[lofty widget]

since you dont parry when reprisal procs

[languid juniper]

We will finnaly be able to use exec with reprisal

pog

[sweet summit]

I imagine it does

[strong forum]

Wdym finally

I always use execute

[jagged pier]

you dont use execute already?

[sweet summit]

I think its just a complicated way of saying "with Revenge! revenge does even more damage"

[languid juniper]

lets say my war is still 200 ilvl

[strong forum]

If the target is sub 20% you only see red, and spam that execute

[jagged pier]

^^

[strong forum]

[languid juniper]

you wont even get aggro back from a prot pally with exec spam

[jolly thistle]

you get bark skin and spam

[languid juniper]

how sad is taht ?

[jagged pier]

do u know whats sadge having 1 external for mythic council

[languid juniper]

i was playing monk on council

gotta have someone kiting those big dudes

i shat my pants more than once

[jagged pier]

yer i have dh doing that

but i cant just get externals to execute in final phase

[sand condor]

why dont prot warriors get pi 😠

[languid juniper]

why tho

dh doesnt need externals

[jagged pier]

eh?

[languid juniper]

i mean

why dont you have externals in final phase

🤔

[strong forum]

Wrong classes

[jagged pier]

because i have pain sup

and i have to use it before the dance in final phase

thats all i have

[languid juniper]

oh

[strong forum]

Jakey you get to use reprisal on council now

[sweet summit]

PI on any warrior spec is cringe

[jagged pier]

so when the boss is at 20%

[languid juniper]

sucks to be you

[languid juniper]

PI is cringe

[jagged pier]

i have the block up time with bolster and moving around to charge

is pretty yikes

ill probs try it on sludge tho

[strong forum]

Sludge is perfect am + wall fight

[languid juniper]

^

[jagged pier]

a lot of prots running bolster on mythic

🤷

[sweet summit]

Weak

[sand condor]

wait

crit=vers for m+ prot

[languid juniper]

denat is a perfect fight for reprisal

[sand condor]

ohboy

[sweet summit]

Tbh i also ran bolster on sludge

[jagged pier]

last i checked even sense was

[sweet summit]

Cos im a pussy

[sinful aspen]

blood dk or prot for mythic raiding?

[jagged pier]

yah cause far more melees u get parries from crit

[sweet summit]

Either works

[sand condor]

😄

[jagged pier]

either it dont matter

[sand condor]

i should have greeded the inerva ring

[languid juniper]

they will both become stronger

and rn doesnt really matter

amz tho

[craggy portal]

If your guild already has a warior I'd say go blood dk cause it'll bring more, unless your guild is already packing dks

[sweet summit]

Id take bdk if u dont have amz, or pwarr if u dont have another bs/rc

Ye

[sinful aspen]

will dps wars become better? Trying to replace our prot pal atm

[sand condor]

uhhh

tough question

[sweet summit]

Not as of now

[sinful aspen]

our guild has 3 dks

[sand condor]

hopefully but not rn

[sinful aspen]

our dps war is always bottom dps 😭

[sand condor]

that's kinda..

[sweet summit]

Dps warr life

[sand condor]

where he belongs

[sweet summit]

Wcyd

[sinful aspen]

feel like i kill 2 birds with 1 stone going prot war

[languid juniper]

only SLG is good for warriors

kekw

[jagged pier]

not really, im filling the AP buff in our raid

[sand condor]

i struggle getting to the middle ofthe pack

my guild is actually debating on getting me as main tank

lol

so that our prot pally can reroll to holy

[languid juniper]

we dont have monk so i had to get on mine

[sweet summit]

Rough

[sand condor]

we have like 17 monks

we even have a mistweaver

.>

[craggy portal]

I'm full time vengeance until my guild can find a havoc, no one plays that spec though lol

[languid juniper]

but for next raid im back on pwar

fuck monk

[sweet summit]

Simp

[languid juniper]

remove 5% buff from monk and we all good

cuz ww monk is done for and monk tank is not fun

[strong forum]

I find it interesting that the monk and dh seem so problematic but the war and mage buff don't

Why is it that we all want those monk and dh buffs removed but nobody actually thinks shout and Int buff are bad as annoying

[languid juniper]

because some ppl still think you have battle scroll

🤒

[strong forum]

Yeah but it's like very much accepted that you always have a war and mage player

[dense gate]

Is 5% AP = 5% physical dmg

[languid juniper]

i dont have much knowledge on the last xpacs, but isnt it because mage and warrior are always in a "good" spot

[strong forum]

Whereas monk is pigeonholed into brm

[strong forum]

Pmuch

[sweet summit]

5%ap>>5%phys dmg

[strong forum]

Ye

Cuz it scales with the attack itself

[sweet summit]

Lots of things scale off ap but is not physical

[strong forum]

Not with physical only

[sweet summit]

Like dk/ret dmg

[strong forum]

Or dh

[sweet summit]

Yep

[strong forum]

Or hunters.. I think they have some magic dmg too

[languid juniper]

sub rogue too no ?

[sweet summit]

Sub too

[strong forum]

Right, rogues

[sweet summit]

There are a lot

[jolly thistle]

pretty much everyone except ferals have some magic dmg

[languid juniper]

didnt dk have an ap buff few xpac ago ?

[hexed rune]

My guild is debating doing the set up for necro banner at all during raids

[sweet summit]

Feral has moonfire/sunfire no?

[raven kernel]

horn of winter

[sweet summit]

Or does that not scale with ap

[jolly thistle]

Only if owl weaving

[raven kernel]

was functionally same as battleshout

[hexed rune]

Is this the end of the bonelord dream

[sweet summit]

Oh ok

[raven kernel]

but DPS dks bring so much now, if they got back horn of winter you'd just drop warrior entirely

[sweet summit]

Not if they stacked 👀

[raven kernel]

if you're referencing old HoW, it was just a duplicate BS

didnt stack

was an alternative source

[sweet summit]

Oh :/

[languid juniper]

just give bs and ai to other classes

same for 5% debuff

[raven kernel]

which is kinda how it should be

[jolly thistle]

just remove the buffs

[raven kernel]

there should at least be a 2nd class that can provide every buff/debuff

and give it to those with lacking utility

[pastel vector]

weird question but does any 1 race work best for prot?

[sweet summit]

Kinda irrelevant

[languid juniper]

anything but mechagnome

[sweet summit]

Races are so close u just go for looks

[languid juniper]

tjhey are ugly as hell

[raven kernel]

mechagnome is strong racials tho

[sweet summit]

^

[languid juniper]

thats why we should boycot them

[sweet summit]

Big str