I’m on board for a full scale rework
#protection
heavy sail
compact palm
Do we have a set date for 9.0.5 yet or best guess
sweet summit
March
heavy sail
Prot right now just feels like a broken unfun spec
chilly brook
Still fun imo
compact palm
Ok so soon tm
chilly brook
Just has glaring issues
mellow gorge
prot is fun though
jagged pier
im suprised reprisal has made it this far tbh
heavy sail
Same
lavish oracle
It's wacky to me how far overboard they went nerfing BfA prot
chilly brook
They just need to replace last stand as is with bolster
sweet summit
Youre gonna enjoy two weeks of it on live 
heavy sail
They went overboard with most of the post-BfA nerfs
sweet summit
Sir have you read what last stand does
mellow gorge
well
sweet summit
Its so fucking garbage
heavy sail
Like havoc got fucking yeeted
chilly brook
It's wacky to me how far overboard they went nerfing BfA prot
It's like everything else at the end of BFA they kneejerk nerfed even though none of it would matter
mellow gorge
base last stand is bad
jagged pier
everyone gunna reroll to necro just for it to get nerfed along with reprisal
sweet summit
Makes me puke
jagged pier
compact palm
Replace last stand with something that regens our block charges
lavish oracle
@chilly brook that or bake in AM
mellow gorge
but bolster baselined is really strong
midnight marsh
Like havoc got fucking *yeeted*
in ST yeah their aoe is pretty insane though
heavy sail
DH is blizzards baby, they won’t be bad for long.
But yeah they went over the top with the havoc nerfs
chilly brook
that'd be rather too strong
Making a defensive actually a defensive isn't exactly something crazy
midnight marsh
community perception there it's actually not as bad as people think
chilly brook
Druids have both bark and survival instincts both of which are stronk
mellow gorge
hmm
chilly brook
DH has meta and brand both stronk
midnight marsh
that's fair tbh
ripe valve
guys considering changing to kyrian from venthyr as I will be mostly tanking from now, was dps till now, should I go for it or wait for patch ?
compact palm
Last stand is glorified healthstone
mellow gorge
good enough for me
midnight marsh
for meta i guess ?
chilly brook
Pally has several stronk defensives
chilly brook
Monk has some pretty good ones...
heavy sail
If you’re strictly min/maxing it looks like it’s necro for 9.1 @ripe valve
mellow gorge
but the thing is, if they baseline bolster, and then you have AM on the row instantly taken
midnight marsh
monk ONLY has CDs
lavish oracle
Reflect and demo are both pretty good
unique shale
guys considering changing to kyrian from venthyr as I will be mostly tanking fro...
venthyr prot is fine
compact palm
Just bubble hearth the ultimate cd
sweet summit
@ripe valve you can swap now if youd like. Not much changes in 9.0.5
chilly brook
I mean like theres no reason for Last Stand to exist as it does without bolster
chilly brook
but the thing is, if they baseline bolster, and then you have AM on the row inst...
AM should be baseline across the class
midnight marsh
you're comparing to class that work differently
though i agree base last stand is hot garbage
chilly brook
Idk dude
lavish oracle
What's the 2 minute pally cd?
chilly brook
I've played pally
mellow gorge
but imagine AM with the Wall, you have a shield wall on roughly 1 minute cooldown
sweet summit
Delete LS bring back BC, make bolster interact with BC 👀
chilly brook
It's not that insanely different
midnight marsh
yeah but pally only has CDs yknow
chilly brook
No they dont lol
chilly brook
And their 20% dr is up pretty fast
lavish oracle
SotR is kinda garbo
chilly brook
Like very fast
sweet summit
So is demo shout
chilly brook
I know
chilly brook
I just don't see pally as being as CD reliant as people are making it out to be
midnight marsh
which is an absolutely insane active mit compared to what a lot of classes have
sweet summit
chilly brook
Arguably shield block isn't that insane anymore
compact palm
We have the lowest self healing we need insane mitigation
chilly brook
With the adjusted damage profiles
lavish oracle
It's still pretty insane most of the time
unique shale
make prot to hold two two handed weapon dps problem solved
midnight marsh
We have the lowest self healing we need insane mitigation
that's fair
man when shield block is up it's insane
heavy sail
Baby AMS that can’t cheese many mechanics and also doesn’t provide a DR beyond one cast.
midnight marsh
and pretty much all m+ is physical
heavy sail
Spell reflect is cool and all but it’s not really that good
graceful cobalt
would we take Reprisal as next Legendary? or even The Wall?
midnight marsh
like, DH is good because it can kite very easily tbh
lavish oracle
The times shield block isn't insane, other tanks are getting similarly trucked
heavy sail
Could be so much better
lavish oracle
Minus DH because fiery brand is stupid
mellow gorge
it'd be rather broken
chilly brook
DH is good because it has insane tankiness damage and can easily kite
unique shale
like, DH is good because it can kite very easily tbh
as well as dps
sweet summit
would we take Reprisal as next Legendary? or even The Wall?
Ideally you have both
mellow gorge
but spell reflect reflecting spells for 5 seconds
chilly brook
And offers a lot of utility
mellow gorge
would be better for trash packs
midnight marsh
as well as dps
now exactly true, paladin would do higher dam
but yeah
it's high
chilly brook
like, DH is good because it can kite very easily tbh
I can kite almost as easily as a DH
graceful cobalt
yeah i ask becouse i can build my next now but would build the right for 9.05/9.1
chilly brook
That has little to do with it
heavy sail
Spell reflect having a secondary DR effect for like 6-10s would make it way better.
unique shale
monks are same as dh big dps and kite
rough needle
dh is good because of its damage utility and cooldown lineups
mellow gorge
or yeah that
midnight marsh
I can kite almost as easily as a DH
huh?
chilly brook
dh is good because of its damage utility and cooldown lineups
This
lavish oracle
@heavy sail You can cheese plenty of mechanics with it, just not to the same degree
mellow gorge
you take 20% less spell dmg for 5 seconds and reflect a spell
sweet summit
Thing is, we're not sure if reprisal will stay as it is. Safe play would be to get the wall now, and craft reprisal once it goes live @graceful cobalt
lavish oracle
Traps on xymox, orbs on hungering, like half of council mechs
chilly brook
Kiting isn't really why DH is king rn
midnight marsh
well they have better tools to kite
graceful cobalt
ok than i will safe my Soul Ash a bit longer thx a lot
midnight marsh
and control the pack
compact palm
Sigil s are just insane
midnight marsh
it's very easy to kite and keep it in relatively the same spot
sweet summit
You want the wall eventually anyway, so you dont lose anything really
heavy sail
Being able to SR a trap compared to what DKs do on that fight though... lol
I mean you’re right it has uses
It could just be so much better
graceful cobalt
wich convernant is actually and fpr 9.05/9.1 best for Prot Warrior( also Kyrian or wich)
chilly brook
Top comps are spellcleave and DH buffs that, plus they have big bursty damage, sigils, huge uptime on fiery brand, cheat death, immortality inside CDs, and did I mention imprison?
midnight marsh
Sigil s are just insane
funny how they were the same in BFA and DH was still considered garbage haha
heavy sail
Imprison is just dumb lol
mellow patio
Dh wasn’t garbage in bfa
sweet summit
Kyrian>=NF>=necro>venthyr in a nutshell @graceful cobalt
mellow patio
Prot was just better
chilly brook
DH was only garbage in like 8.0
midnight marsh
Dh wasn’t garbage in bfa
"considered garbage"
compact palm
Borrowed power is a hell of a drug
chilly brook
And you're also forgetting that DH had poopoo damage in BFA
Which actually hurt their ability to do keys
lavish oracle
DHs fiery brand wasn't even close to half as powerful in bfa as it is now
midnight marsh
yeah but somehow the sigils are op right now
midnight marsh
it had the exact same utility
heavy sail
midnight marsh
and somehow right now it's considered insane lol
chilly brook
yeah but somehow the sigils are op right now
Sigils dont matter if you cant hold aggro
Which was a problem if you ran the tankier builds you had to for keys
midnight marsh
Sigil s are just insane
well i was replying to someone else
lavish oracle
And also it's mitigation uptime was trash without demonic, and fiery brand synergies
midnight marsh
not really
heavy sail
Sigils were insane in BfA too, the spec just had shortcomings outside of that.
midnight marsh
with vop and glut it wasn't bad
chilly brook
Tanks don't ever become meta because of one aspect of their kit
heavy sail
^
midnight marsh
sure
chilly brook
They become meta because the entirety of it
midnight marsh
i won't argue that with you lol
chilly brook
DH had real holes in the kit in BFA
midnight marsh
i find it funny that the narrative of insane utility is spreading out
that's all :D
yeah i played DH in BFA
and not warrior
i felt it dw kek
heavy sail
A majority of WoW players are dumb and reactionary.
chilly brook
I mean to be fair
The more power a spec has
Any extra utility starts becoming insane
I.e. unholy DK
unique shale
#nerfsr
chilly brook
Most health of melee, insane damage, highest execute damage, does everything just better than other melee and brings AMZ
lavish oracle
Maybe if we just had piercing howl
mellow gorge
i'td be nice to have more shouts on warriors
offensive atleast
on prot there's only demo and intimidating
unique shale
y i wish we had piercing howl
chilly brook
Wtb MoP banners
jagged pier
^^
unique shale
lol
lavish oracle
Just make drums good again
heavy sail
It would also be entirely unnecessary and wouldn’t make us stronger at anything except m+
unique shale
heavy sail
lavish oracle
To be fair, we're already a good option in raid
mellow gorge
a tank with lust does sound quite a cool idea
compact palm
True
jagged pier
banner basically was lust
chilly brook
Give prot warrior and prot warrior alone MoP Vengeance
heavy sail
Lol
jagged pier
Tru
chilly brook
I know just a meme
mellow gorge
just give prot warriors some love please
chilly brook
All I really want in 9.1 is a damage buff
mellow gorge
damage buff? off it goes to VH
heavy sail
Blizzard has like 2 dudes balancing the game so I wouldn’t hold your breath lol
lavish oracle
Let me balance the game blizzard
chilly brook
I'll get my damage buff somehow
unique shale
me when playing prot war with phobos base from doom in background 
lavish oracle
I promise I'll do it really good
mellow gorge
now i need the hidden artifact appearance for prot
heavy sail
Game balance is a tricky thing though.
heavy sail
WoW really flirts with the line of being too homogenous
Like every class doing everything and having somewhat equal damage profile
mellow gorge
i wouldn't want my dps to be healing now would I
heavy sail
And that’s a legitimate “you think you do, but you don’t”
lavish oracle
Nah, I feel like this xpac classes all have pretty distinct niches
chilly brook
^
lavish oracle
Even if there's some overlap
heavy sail
I agree, but I think that’s an easy thing to fuck up.
compact palm
Classes not specs
heavy sail
And if they listened to all the feedback players gave, that’s what it would be.
I’m actually okay with the general state the game is in right now.
mellow gorge
could still use some fixing here and there but all in all it's alright
compact palm
Could do with some fixing to the under playedbclases
chilly brook
General state is fine, needs fixing on some things
compact palm
Ie surv demo
heavy sail
I think survival just needs to be pruned.
heavy sail
Like remove it from the game completely and redesign it
chilly brook
Tanks should be more tanky for example and imo the raid is ok but has some real problem fights. But other than that I dont have much to complain about
lavish oracle
Make survival a tank, it's in the name
mellow gorge
you mean bear ?
heavy sail
SLG still being a buggy mess is honestly unacceptable lmao
compact palm
Shh
midnight marsh
I’m actually okay with the general state the game is in right now.
eh m+ meta is absolute garbage
chilly brook
Like remove it from the game completely and redesign it
The problem is it actually has some good bones to the spec it just doesnt seem to know what it wants to be and feels like it's just lacking a designer
eager phoenix
depends on the metric you use to compare tank balance. like, all tanks are seeing play and players are being successful with the different classes. so why does it matter if vdh is 60% represented at 20+ when the sampel size is 3,4k
unique shale
aoe cap is stupid
chilly brook
depends on the metric you use to compare tank balance. like, all tanks are seein...
I mean most tanks still feel fairly squishy
heavy sail
When you only have like 500 people logging survival and most of them ironically, it’s probably time to scrap it.
midnight marsh
M+ meta is fine
is it ? melees are unwelcome in there it feels so bad :(
unique shale
depends on the metric you use to compare tank balance. like, all tanks are seein...
well people need dh for their 10+ key that's why
heavy sail
I don’t even think survival mains would be upset with a full redesign
chilly brook
I'd rather have most if not all tanks be on the Vengeance DH end of the power spectrum
eager phoenix
there are way more fundamental issues with the game. the unique buffs/debuffs still being a thing, drums beign dogshit compared to bl, engi res being dogshit vs real cr. aoe cap fucking over literally every class in the game except a handful
lavish oracle
I ran a 5 melee group in a spires 15 yesterday, went fine
midnight marsh
I'd rather have most if not all tanks be on the Vengeance DH end of the power sp...
oh no a little highr than this
heavy sail
I do have a problem with the selective target capping
That shit needs to be done away with
Either it’s everyone or it’s no-one
eager phoenix
i agree its dogshit design when the tank role isnt really a tank. but thats beyond vdh balance compared to other classes. soemthing is always going to be meta
chilly brook
I fail to see how that's a rebuttal of saying tanks suck in general rn
heavy sail
Dungeons and CN are honestly the most melee friendly content there has been in a minute
chilly brook
midnight marsh
I ran a 5 melee group in a spires 15 yesterday, went fine
I wish meta was defined by your spires 15
chilly brook
Dungeons and CN are honestly the most melee friendly content there has been in a...
Hard disagree
unique shale
I wish meta was defined by your spires 15
i guess people never pug and just play with guildy
chilly brook
Legion/BFA dungeons were way better for melee
midnight marsh
i guess people never pug and just play with guildy
:D
chilly brook
But that also has to do with not being artificially kneecapped
heavy sail
I think it’s mostly the affixes right
eager phoenix
between aoe cap, the new affixes and baseline dungeon mob abilities this shit makes it terribad to be melee. its like legion/bfa range
heavy sail
The dungeon mechanics themselves aren’t bad
lavish oracle
Yeah, bfa was definitely more melee friendly by far
Well, bfa dungeons
CNs not too bad
lavish oracle
But yeah, at least the M+ meta is reasonably diverse right now
lavish oracle
Lots of healers seeing play, pretty flexible DPS slots
compact palm
That's a vibe
strong forum
But yeah, at least the M+ meta is reasonably diverse right now
For high keys having boomkin and firemage is an absolute must
chilly brook
Lots of healers seeing play, pretty flexible DPS slots
Ironically I feel pretty powerful in m+ as fury
heavy sail
Heavy emphasis on boomkin
strong forum
It's diverse in the lower keys sure, but Max keys is obv close to 0 variety
eager phoenix
yeah
lavish oracle
I feel like you could get away with a hunter instead of a fire mage for anything other than like world first keys
compact palm
The top dps specs shouldn't also be the ones with high utility change my mind
strong forum
Having a firemage just delete packs is a huge qol
Even if the overall dmg isn't needed
heavy sail
It is
strong forum
But mage just deleting packs every now and again is huge
lavish oracle
You also have a pretty flexible 3rd slot, though rogue seems to be settling in as the preferred
remote dawn
Rispal change is comming 9.0.5? and its the way for M+
lavish oracle
Miles better than like S2 BfA meta, though, haha
Double outlaw ww was actually so toxic, lol
dense flame
Think it was said but I wish all tanks were like super close in dmg and tankiness.
dense flame
Like maybe one or two playstyle differences between the tanks.
compact palm
Give rogues m+ since raids they useless
heavy sail
Coordinating skips without everyone having engineering or invis pots is big QoL
Outlaw is still decent in raid
It doesn’t provide anything that necessitates their melee slot though
lavish oracle
They just don't have any raid utility
heavy sail
Yeah
lavish oracle
Their damage is fine
eager phoenix
its hard to compete with dks in the util department
compact palm
U either need utility or DMG
compact palm
But the people with utility have both
heavy sail
Their damage isn’t quite good enough to overlook their lack of raid utility
BS makes it so that pretty much every raid until the end of time will have at least one warrior though
lavish oracle
Yep
compact palm
Prot usually
lavish oracle
Not in the past
compact palm
Seems easyer to sac a tank spot for bs then waste a dps spot
heavy sail
Depends
compact palm
Unless protnis unplayable
lavish oracle
Well, DPS warrior has been really strong in some past tiers
heavy sail
Historically WW has been pretty terrible, so a BrM tank slot was mandatory
lavish oracle
Especially execute heavy tiers
compact palm
Arms needs to have insane exocute DMG for that to be true
It needs to be better then literally everyone
heavy sail
CN is the only tier in how long that BrM wasn’t absolutely essential.
compact palm
Yea
heavy sail
Wasn’t fury like far and away the best DPS in eternal palace
sweet summit
SP was better
compact palm
Remember fury being good at some point in mop
lavish oracle
The whole reason that weak aura griff mentioned earlier exists is because of this shit
Man, fury was so much fun in legion
orchid frigate
isn't fury popping off a bit right now tho?
lavish oracle
Yeah, it's pretty fun right now too but I have to PUG to play it
lavish oracle
Bladestorm canceling with signet can feel a little fiddly but I kinda like it
remote carbon
is there a good reason to keep farming soul ash now?
solar crown
The thing is that certain classes are just to good to not bring. UH was just insane this raid, they had great AOE and execute, and brought AMZ. No real reason to even consider other melee dps for WF.. And that pretty much set the meta
unique shale
imagine getting flamed by giving tank a better route with pride on every boss XD
his respond
lavish oracle
Some people just have routes they're comfortable with, to be fair
If a PUG linked me a route they wanted me to do that I wasn't at least mostly familiar with right before a key, I'd probably just ignore them
unique shale
well i guess no pride on bosses is best route possible
lavish oracle
Not what I said
unique shale
i not ganna improve as a tank
lavish oracle
Also not what I said, lol
unique shale
also not what i said in first place lol
strong forum
is there a good reason to keep farming soul ash now?
Crafting more legendaries?
solar crown
I can totally understand that you, as the tank, do not want to 'yolo' a route you don't really know. It makes sense to me at least
strong forum
Reprisal and seismic are the ones I will craft next
In that order probably
Signet after
lavish oracle
Is there an ash cap?
strong forum
8k
If I were you I'd never stop farming ash
I'm close to 5k rn and have 2x r4 and 1x R1
solar crown
Thank god boreghast is easy, so farming ash shouldn't be time-consuming
lavish oracle
Yeah, weekly torgs are quick at least
strong forum
Yuh
strong forum
i think i have what i need, im preparing for 9.1
If you're prepping for 9.1 you ideally want to have all potential good legendaries
So even more of a reason to farm ash
remote carbon
gotcha
solar crown
I never really understood the whining on torghast (as i played prot on release) untill i tried to run a floor 8 on an alt (outlaw)
median tulip
I do Torghast on 2 characters, every Wednesday. Other than that I ignore the stupid place
strong forum
Aren't rogues also notoriously bad in torghast
I do torghast on the weekend when I legit don't even wanna nap
lavish oracle
Yeah, rogues have it rough from what I hear
strong forum
Last resort kinda grind
solar crown
could be, my thought-process was that i could just go invis to the end of each floor. that is what i would have wanted on my warrior. but that did not fare well
lavish oracle
I do it Monday night 😄
median tulip
I do it as Fury... It's basically the only use I have found for Fury
lavish oracle
Torgs fine on my bear but also a tank spec
solar crown
I just dont have the patience to run boreghast on classes that dont have a tank spec
Only way to make it fun is to pull as much as you can
strong forum
I don't wanna imagine the struggle of non tanks doing torghast
lavish oracle
I only play classes with a tank spec
median tulip
Only way to make it fun is to pull as much as you can
That's what I do as Fury. Pull everything and AoE it all down whilst regenerating faster than they can kill me
lavish oracle
God help me if all the tank class DPS/heal specs are bad all at once
That'd actually be impressive noe that I think about it
solar crown
That's what I do as Fury. Pull everything and AoE it all down whilst regeneratin...
Actually havent tried fury this exp. Maybe i should give it a shot
median tulip
Actually havent tried fury this exp. Maybe i should give it a shot
It's literally the only thing I use Fury for this expansion
lavish oracle
Just play boomy, ezpz
solar crown
Dunno how bliz thought it was a good idea to target cap certain spells/classes while others were left alone. And on top of that introduced the maw which is fucking gruesome
strong forum
I tried to do maw as fury once
lavish oracle
Or hpal, hpal is fun
strong forum
I almost died to 1 mob in perdition hold
So I cba'd out again
Never doing World content as anything but tank
median tulip
Dunno how bliz thought it was a good idea to target cap certain spells/classes w...
The Maw is kinda boring TBH
solar crown
"hey, farm some stygian here! its not important and makes 0 difference on your character"
strong forum
Nice 3dps gain
lavish oracle
I basically totally ignored the maw after week 4
jagged pier
Nice 3dps gain
yah
strong forum
I only do weekly stuff
Need like 2 sockets still
Then im Gucci
(adn 27 conduits but who cares)
solar crown
Ah, true, you can use 1400 (?) stygian on a chance to get an upgrade to a conduit you use 😄
median tulip
I just go in and murder the special encounters; it's not the best rep/Stygia per Day, but it is the most for the least effort
wet compass
so how big a defensive hit is it swapping from kyrian to venth? Probably going to end up needing to do it if I want to raid since I will likely have to go dps at this point
jagged pier
i mean you more likely to go 3 endurance as venthyr
and on ST like no difference same with aoe u just need to use your rage more effficently
solar crown
Just go necrolord and be ready for the hypetrain x]
ionic fern
jagged pier
yer the third best conv instead of the worst 🤔
solar crown
Might get some play the first couple of weeks, if the hype is strong enough 😄
wet compass
Unless you are wf levei I don't see necro being worth it as dps tbh
as prot yeah you can be the raid simp because that's why you are there but if I go dps I would rather play condemn just way more fun
brittle owl
imagine rolling the hard core heavy metal soldier/warrior covenant just to be a simp
strong forum
Glam metal.
solar crown
At least you look cool. I hate how kyrian looks, but i'm not leaving my spear
strong forum
Prolly sang
trim bay
and coalesced hatred isnt that good? i have read mixed reports. trinkets confuse me so much >.< i have a 226 of that
jagged pier
it bad
gaunt dawn
trim bay
then should i use phial or something along those lines for my second one? i have a slimey as well but you should only use that for prog?
trim bay
looks like ig ot alot of trasg
buoyant pelican
hey, im not a warrior player but kind of want to make one just to play prot in pvp. I know double leap legendary makes them viable flag carriers but is there any build that lets them effectively base sit on non flag maps?
trim bay
but ty for the info appreciate it 🙂
next copper
Prot won't kill anybody, but it has a lot of CC and annoyance mechanics.
The Thunderclap root talent is pretty godly for that purpose.
jagged pier
hey, im not a warrior player but kind of want to make one just to play prot in p...
we have no self heal so u cant base defend as u just die
buoyant pelican
not worried about dying fast its more like can they deal with stuff like sap capping
next copper
Eh, it does last a good while. The problem is that Arms has Defensive stance on top of the same tools.
buoyant pelican
like beserker rage is a 1 min cd and sap dr is 18 seconds after first one is dispelled, then am I just fucked after the next sap?
jagged pier
you cant base defend pretty much as you cant stopa rogue from back capping really unless u stand correctly you should really just play arms and shot call
its not hard you just sharpen blade MS
and hit the same target
legit all you do
eager phoenix
ye
jagged pier
the rogues finished capping the flag
eager phoenix
the tiem youre sapped is the time he spends running to the flag
jagged pier
^^
buoyant pelican
ok so its possible they are decent sitters then right? at least as good as a mage or hunter sitting it
eager phoenix
its going to be harder to spin the flag as warrior compared to guardian/vdh
eager phoenix
as guardian got the stupid cc immunity shit on top of everything else
buoyant pelican
you cant 1v1 even melee classes?
eager phoenix
you can 1v1 sure
im talking about eventually youre forced to spin the flag for some time before you can be reinforiced
and in that department im 100 % convinced prot warr is just trash compared to gdruid/vdh
jagged pier
^^
you may be able to hold the flag against 1 melee for enough time
they send more
your screwed
jagged pier
no
buoyant pelican
are we to hard locked into a certain one?
jagged pier
if i was play prot id take the wall for the rage gen or TLs to spam TC root tbh
unique shale
yes and no
eager phoenix
i feel your way more effective as arms in rbg than prot this season. especially consideng how stupid arms is dmg wise. let dh/druid handle tanking duties. if your 100 % playing with decent group sure you can get anything to work but your average bus stop pug you cant carry as hard as prot warr as gdruid/vdh in the same role.
your rally is also more useful in the team fight than over at some flag
buoyant pelican
those classes are boring, I have an aff lock and disc priest at a high lvl already im cool with meme shit
I can lead stuff too I dont mind
also... is the new necrolord covenant good or just a meaningless change I don't quite know the value of rage yet or mastery
eager phoenix
are we talking prot pve or prot pvp 😉
buoyant pelican
exclusively prot rbg pvp
eager phoenix
id stick to kyrian
buoyant pelican
kk, more for the ability or the conduit tree?
buoyant pelican
I was under the impression even trying to do dmg is a waste of time, with comdenm you can squeak out kills?
eager phoenix
spear is more flexible. its like, root x ppl & get away vs having a shield to survive a beating longer. in a way both can do the same except spear also has offensive value. spear is also ranged which is useful. phial is also useful and versatile. banner is also static. you mvoe away from it
sweet summit
Not after 9.0.5
eager phoenix
(!)
sweet summit
It moves with u on ptr
unique shale
I was under the impression even trying to do dmg is a waste of time, with comden...
well i did sometimes ageist dh tank and holy pala
sweet summit
But yeah, id go kyrian in this case tbh
buoyant pelican
what moves with you
sweet summit
New necrolord banner
buoyant pelican
oh, that could be cool for like a teamfight style using taunt pvp talent? and demo shout talent + group sheild wall leggo?
buoyant pelican
yea you would have to make sure your in like the important people group or something
sweet summit
Ye
Necro banner defo has potental in pvp, but i think spear out perfoms it in most cases due to it having half the cooldown and its more versatile than banner
sweet summit
I still recommend kyrian and night fae over necrolord
Necrolord looks sick if you play around it
But most people probably dont bother to get the full potential
sweet summit
Unnerving Focus
dry spear
when u stick to NF what soulbind is the best defensiv wise? i can see niya as good dps bind with burrs. but lets say u just focus on survival. it is korayn with face your foes?
sweet summit
Probably korayn, yeah
empty spindle
Is that the last stand one ?
sweet summit
Yep
empty spindle
and the shield wall one obviously
sweet summit
That one is alright
remote dawn
it looks rispal gos live without nerf, question build on feet or legs? and we can say when it comes live its the way to go for M+ with AM?
remote dawn
Sounds good 
sand condor
BSC?
sweet summit
Best served cold
remote dawn
Best Served Cold
lofty widget
is that since the rage gain from BV is no longe needed?
sweet summit
More revenge damage
remote dawn
Revenge Talent
sweet summit
You also get a free revenge, and with bsc thats an extra 50% dam on that revenge
Yes it is
topaz crescent
Do we play Double Time with Reprisal or still Storm Bolt for m+?
smoky wave
Going to see how that pans out myself. I'm going to miss sb 😅
sweet summit
Ye just dont tell Ion 
topaz crescent
If I raid as Fury but do keys as Prot, should I maybe go NF? Seems solid on for both, Kyrian feels a bit shit for Fury on ST
remote dawn
xD
sweet summit
Depends tbh
I stay venthyr
sand condor
as a fury player i can tell you about 90% of the fury channel is going into NF either after they clear CN or when they prioritize m+
sweet summit
Cos i value raid prog higher than offspec keys
topaz crescent
Aight, so Venthyr works well for Prot? Even in keys?
sand condor
^^^
sand condor
the single target damage is a real nice one on these tyranicall weeks
ripe valve
do you use door of shadows as prot ?
sand condor
not really
sweet summit
Nah
sand condor
the shield you can get from it with draven is pretty nce
so if you door of shadows into charge
you waste like 2 seconsd
but you havea nice shield
sweet summit
That one is very weak, unfortunately
sand condor
yeah
sand condor
i love the "gain speed when your friends gain speed"
sweet summit
Just play nadjia 
sweet summit
Ye
sand condor
still wack
sand condor
so if you wanna trollyour healers
BSC Venthyr AM Siesmic
that is one hell of a build if oyu ask me
subtle island
Any thoughts on potential upcoming buff to reprisal?
unique shale
they either nerf it when 9.0.5 or 9.1 came alive just my thoughts with blizz balancing
merry ocean
Why would they nerf it?
sweet summit
Because it is very strong
unique shale
cause they want prot war to be F tier still
sweet summit
Gives us close to 100% uptime on Shield Block, 70 extra rage per charge/intervene, and allows us to build more offensively with our talents
Im not complaining, but it is a lot
unique shale
Gives us close to 100% uptime on Shield Block, 70 extra rage per charge/interven...
how can you build more offensively talents
AM ?
sweet summit
You dont need the on demand rage from BV, so you can take BSC. You dont need the extra SB uptime from bolster so you can take AM
unique shale
i don't know bolster healing saving me a lot of times can't leave it
unique shale
i mean last stand itself
sweet summit
^
unique shale
ebon hound
true
strong forum
It still serves a purpose, but it's a very outdated design of a CD
ebon hound
i seem to remember it worked through necrotic in bfa, which doesn't seem to be the case anymore even
sweet summit
Did it?
ebon hound
that's what i thought
lofty widget
well it has the world heal in it so i dont htink it would
sweet summit
I dont trust tooltips
unique shale
holy mooly this is most broken lego in game
time to beat those dh tanks from pug world
strong forum
Na not gonna happen
unique shale
remote dawn
with rispal change what conduits you go?
strong forum
Same ones
unique shale
full dps
sweet summit
Unnerving loses a bit of value due to no bolster
dry spear
i really think that the reprisal is the way blizzard wants to buff prot warris. like "they will see that this leggo is very good and every prot will take it and be very fine with it" instead of changing talent or skills.
strong forum
Yes
It's a bandaid fix that touches alot of issues for prot
Snap threat? Revenge
Rage gen? Extra rage
AM uptime? SB
wet compass
so there is one thing about reprisal
strong forum
All baked into 1 legendary
wet compass
maybe you are 😦
unique shale
buy more wow token to build lego at 235 XD
strong forum
So you wanna craft shit and 9.1 won't be for MINIMUM 2 months after 9.0.5
wet compass
I rerolled 7 weeks ago
strong forum
MINIMUM
wet compass
and the guild I rerolled for just died so that's a yay
iron void
unique shale
and the guild I rerolled for just died so that's a yay
never reroll for the guild
wet compass
so now I probably have to upgrade my signet
unique shale
just get good with your current class
wet compass
I mean it was reroll or not play lol morning guilds and all that
besides I'd 100% rather play prot warrior than brew anyway just more fun imo
wet compass
single target it seems like signet or the wall are the only picks for parsage but who knows
mellow gorge
honestly i don't think i'll be able to swap legendaries at this point
seismic does sound to be really in 9.0.5 nice but the wall is just too good
mellow gorge
alrighty then
sand condor
I hope we get more Prot potency conduits
mellow gorge
it would be nice to have actual offensive conduits
sand condor
BSC >.>
fickle vigil
hello friends, i am in the process of gearing up my protection warrior for the upcoming patch and i am wondering in which of the 2 legos i should invest, Thunderlord or Reprisal ?
strong forum
Wall, reprisal, seismic
In that order
TL is dead with new seismic
Reprisal is looking to be the go-to m+ leggo
Wall is solid overall
fickle vigil
thank you 🙂
elfin atlas
I am loving the sound of the Reprisal Leg. from the convo here. Should we craft it now or wait until 9.05 (in the event of changes)? Also would legs or feet be best? Thanks for any tips/
fickle vigil
An extra reason im asking is because prices will go up when patch hits so i think its better yto buy now
elfin atlas
Cool Thanks. Sitting at 6K Ash. Will by the legs and wait. Thanks
wet compass
give a conduit that makes it so that when you get revenge proc you can use it for execute instead plox and thank you
ebon hound
📈
wet compass
conduit could increase the damage of the free execute to allow for scaling
median tulip
give a conduit that makes it so that when you get revenge proc you can use it fo...
laughs in Venthyr
wet compass
looks at the other 60% of the fight
if it was up to me it would just be base to allow choice between revenge and execute for your free proc but it isn't
strong forum
Kind of funny actually
Pwar gets execute and you'd think you get to Pop off on dmg meter in SL
The reality hits, and without execute you'd be a solid 50-80% behind other tanks in ST dmg
Very good
vestal sun
The reality hits, and without execute you'd be a solid 50-80% behind other tanks...
Just like arms and fury.
left junco
have anyone seen the spreadsheet on spell reflect?
sweet summit
Yes
left junco
does blockabe mean that it can be blocked by shield block?
sweet summit
Yes
left junco
thanks
strange lintel
is bladedancers armor kit good? like compared to just slapping a dps trinket in there
next pelican
not very, imo
deft vessel
it's not good at all in my experience
the uptime is dreadfully low
due to the immense cooldown
strange lintel
like i have zero tanking rinkets all i got is the anima field emiter which for what i hear is good and skulkers lol
deft vessel
anime emitter is great
grab one of the nice world quest trinkets and you're good to go pretty far until better stuff
glacial skiff
Stone legions/hungering trinket crew
deft vessel
stone legion trinket is pretty safe and general good trinket
hungering is okay too at sufficient ilvl
and I will forever recommend queensguard vigil if you're doing m+
it's freaking awesome
XD
strange lintel
like zero luck with trinkets
glacial skiff
- It’s basically free healing when needed and dam when you don’t
strange lintel
every time i run a mythic + i run tank loot hoping for a weapon a shield or a trinket lol. no luck T-T
deft vessel
I'm using a heroic hungering trinket and a 216 scale
I have a 207 stone legion trinket as well but I think hungering trinket at 213 is better
offensively at least
glacial skiff
That’s a world quest reward isn’t it
strange lintel
have not seen a single queens guard in my time playing. i guess ill keep an eye
deft vessel
there's a few decent world quest trinkets to be honest
and now that they drop at decent-ish item levels they're really not that bad at all
glacial skiff
Compared to 220/226 trinkets? I think not
Not worth losing the str even if the trinket is busted imo
strange lintel
whats the point of bargast leash anyways. like who can i use it with that i wont end up killing lol
im guessing i ccan pop it on a pally with bubble? or something like that
smoky wave
Nooo, it's meant to be used on the dps you always windup about being dead
I'm banking it until next tier when they won't be expecting it.
outer solstice
yeah ...
patent zodiac
Anyone here good with SimulationCraft action lists?
I'm trying to set up a condition in Hekili to say "If you've got The Wall, pop Shield Wall whenever, otherwise just when it's necessary."
But looking at the SimC wiki and trying stuff in their in "conditions" doesn't help
Maybe better to ask in #ui-addons-manager
outer solstice
oh well tanking sims are pretty advanced shit
also what does "just when it's neccesary" mean?
uneven mason
simming damage taken for tank efficiency, greater minds have tried...lesser minds too.
outer solstice
yep, it seems easy at first
but so much goes in it
and it translates pretty hard to a real raid scenario
ionic fern
Anyone here good with SimulationCraft action lists?
I'm trying to set up a condi...
"Just when it's necessary"? what is that?
When does the program know when it's "Necessary"?
shy zodiac
I don't see how any pre-defined static condition for shield wall would provide any useful information
outer solstice
only pre defined condition would be,... off CD
you may be able to chain CDs,... so you can check if other CDs are running
but the difference in terms of sims would probably be minor in the big picture
correct my if I'm wrong mwahi
patent zodiac
I mean that's fine, the big piece is taht, with the wall, it should basiaclly be triggered a lot more
It's fine if it can't be done, I'll just do it manually
outer solstice
triggered more compared to what?
I get the CD in practice down to close to a minute
or even below with hero
outer solstice
Compared to when I don't have The Wall equipped
what's the uptime you get from sims?
patent zodiac
So by default (and I don't necessarily agree with this ,but...) Hekili has this:
incoming_damage_5s > health | health.pct < 20
patent zodiac
Think I'll just have it show whenever it's off CD and use my brain
It's what I've been doing anyway
outer solstice
what are you trying anyway? you looking for a theoretical answer?
ionic fern
Compared to when I don't have The Wall equipped
Ooh, i get what you are saying now.
I implemented The Wall only for the rage gain, not for the actual CDR it provides.
outer solstice
or a pracctical one?
outer solstice
hahaha, yeah that might explain it
patent zodiac
According to the SimC wiki, I figured shoulders,name=the_wall should have worked
but it does not, and it jsut always returns "true" ebcause those values are "nil"
ionic fern
^
outer solstice
thus the low uptime you see
ionic fern
shoulders=shadowghast_pauldrons,id=171417,bonus_id=1532/6716/6956
You can get the bonus ID's for legendary effects from here:
https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/blob/shadowlands/engine/dbc/generated/item_runeforge.inc
patent zodiac
I think I tried with the ID too but let me give it a shot again
ionic fern
It won't change anything when it comes to the casts of Shield Wall as i said.
patent zodiac
Right, but then I can add other conditions as "ands"
patent zodiac
Probably because so am I
ionic fern
The part of the code which provides the CDR for Shield Wall is NOT there.
patent zodiac
"shoulders=shadowghast_pauldrons,id=171417,bonus_id=1532/6716/6956" still always returns true
I'm thinking Hekili doesn't really do it the way I expect it to, despite what he said
patent zodiac
I don't think Hekili does the simming, it just uses the same code
outer solstice
this
patent zodiac
but I'm (obviously) not a programmer
outer solstice
and the original code only uses the rage gain
patent zodiac
Ah
So how does it work, then, with the health.pct < 20?
That's not based on rage, it's based on my health
outer solstice
if the condition is met it's cast
but the reason you get so low casts
compared to your expectation
is that the cooldown is not simulated correctly
patent zodiac
Well my health is almost never below 20%
outer solstice
that's also a factor
patent zodiac
If I take that out, it showsevery time it's off CD
outer solstice
but not when you compare iot to a thunderlord sim
patent zodiac
I'm not really trying to compare them
patent zodiac
It's not a research question
outer solstice
well if you don't have a question you're looking for an answer with in the sims
you won't get any answer
patent zodiac
I'm not simming
It's to have Hekili show that Shield Wall should be used when it's ready while wearing the Wall, but to keep it as a less-often defensive with THunderlord
patent zodiac
Sorry
outer solstice
especially for us
you have to know the fight and anticipate when you take big damage spikes or low healing
2 examples of the current content would be the "rip soul" ability from barghast
or the Expunge from hungering destroyer
patent zodiac
I don't disagree
outer solstice
prot warrior is a lot about anticipation ... priority addons can only help to use it as often as possible
not in the best possible way
but yeah using shield wall on CD when you're actively tanking is massively better than not using it ^^
patent zodiac
Just gonna do that then :p
scarlet halo
What's your best guess at how many more weeks of nervously waiting for reprisal to get nerfed do we have before we're getting it?
modern brook
0
scarlet halo
And do you think it's likely to get changed before going live?
modern brook
no
outer solstice
our legendaries are quite weak
and even with reprisal that won't change much, it's just fixing a hole in the class
not giving us anything really new
sturdy lynx
i think they will give us repisal as it is and possibly nerf it at 9.1
or make different changes to the class that will cause the nerf on repisal required so that prot won't be too powerful
for this change at 9.0.5 is possibly just a bandage.
outer spoke
Why nerf? Its not that powerful u think, we will still slack at dps and magicdmg
jagged pier
🤔
abling able to block every melee against us
and free revenges
and because of the leggo we can run AM
so we do more damage
giving us 70 rage for 1 charge or intervene
outer spoke
Yes thats what we need
jagged pier
yes not powerful at all
uneven mason
Why nerf? Its not that powerful u think, we will still slack at dps and magicdmg
Imagine having such a massive rage budget we can spam IP until our thumbs fall off.
makes us one of the strongest magic tanks
outer spoke
I hope so but we will see
bleak plaza
Is reprisal looking like hands down best legendary for dungeons then?
jagged pier
yes it pretty much brings us to #1 tank for m+
uneven mason
ehhhhhhhhhh
I'd say for standard M+
for obtuse keys
VDH is still VDH
and we still can't compete with kite meta
outer spoke
I think vdh will still take rank 1
bleak plaza
Obtuse like 25s and shit right
bleak plaza
Gotcha
uneven mason
I'd say this makes warrior more than comfortable into +20
jagged pier
why would we need to kite when we block everything 🤔
uneven mason
Really Jakey
Its because we do 1/3 the DPS of VDH
and DPS is required at those insane keys
until ED and brand are nerfed to do the same damage as thunderclap
we're at the mercy of our low DPS
mind you, I'm ok being the lowest DPS tank
if I get to be the most "tank" of all tanks.
as long as I can hold aggro
sturdy lynx
question guys, with reprisal, given that we will have an good amount of rage to play around , wouldn't venthyr condemm stand out for prot? like that spam condem for the extra dps/shield
jagged pier
we literally get free damage and your likely to run BSC with it which means are damage just goes up along with the fact we will also be running AM which also means number goes up
jagged pier
and as we dont need to spend as much rage on SB
thats more revenges
number goes up again
sturdy lynx
Condemn shield is ST reductin debuff on the target
crap, right forgot about that. sorry
uneven mason
we literally get free damage and your likely to run BSC with it which means are ...
I'm punching revenge as hard as I can and pulling 2.9k overall in +14s
my paladin raid co tank
does a +15 and pulls 5.5k JUST DOING ROTATION
So no
we're not going to catch the other tanks
jagged pier
im doing like 3.5k to 4.6k depending on dungoen 🤷
scarlet halo
I miss the BFA damage output
uneven mason
that paladin is 213
Yeah I miss that too
but we became FoTM when they needlessly buffed our defenses
fallen rose
how is necrolord looking for prot in .5, i have seen some people saying it might be the best due to the change
uneven mason
and that got us nerfed
sturdy lynx
we scale with gear, as the expansion goes on we will be going up 🙂
uneven mason
how is necrolord looking for prot in .5, i have seen some people saying it might...
Its a solid team play, if you use it tactically for your group it'll be #1, for us personally, its weaker than Kyrian or NF for damage and doesn't provide a whole lot else, FLeshcraft is good for a short term defensive.
uneven mason
we scale with gear, as the expansion goes on we will be going up 🙂
Holy crap, no we don't.
"Warriors scale with gear" is a fucking meme that needs to die.
ALL CLASSES SCALE WITH GEAR
bleak plaza
Fleshcraft being buffed will be a nice extra defensive thought
uneven mason
We haven't "Scaled" with gear since SBV was removed
bleak plaza
Though*
outer solstice
"Warriors scale with gear" is a fucking meme that needs to die.
well it comes from tims when weapon damage was part of it ...
uneven mason
Weapon damage is a part of it
like we use AP (which weapon dmg is a translated stat portion of)
ionic fern
Now we scale with Vanguard. 😂
uneven mason
we scale with aura buffs
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
Like we actually are less prone to scaling than VDH and Guardian
because their auras are tuned higher
We also won't "scale" because each patch they'll increase the k value
which means it takes more armor to hit damage reduction increases
fallen rose
@ionic fern how is condemn looking, when pared with reprisal will the rage savings make it better for prot (as long as reprisal dose not get nerfed)
uneven mason
So, really though, we're fine as we are, in all but DPS
outer solstice
specifically ST DPS
ionic fern
<@!238357283996696576> how is condemn looking, when pared with reprisal will the...
No. 🙂
It will still only have its nieche in ST situations.
And on raid fights i doubt you will be:
1)Using Reprisal
2)Even if using Reprisal then leaping around and charging back in to get the rage
scarlet halo
The Wall will still be the go to for raiding right?
uneven mason
looks that way
outer solstice
hunters will kill you if the boss moves ^^
uneven mason
hunters will kill you if the boss moves ^^
I move the boss specifically to fuck with my hunters
outer solstice
oh well, on farm
bleak plaza
Was the wall already the move for live?
uneven mason
I don't see any changes that would knock TW out of its comfy raid spot. Boring legendary is boring.
ionic fern
I like hunters.
"DON'T MOVE THE BOSS!!!! I NEED MY DPS!!"
and then..
"Oh..i can soothe? It's a wasted CD."
"Oh..i have to Lust? Nah, reduces my dps".
#PuGLife.
scarlet halo
lol
outer solstice
or heaven forbid,.... CR
uneven mason
I like hunters.
"DON'T MOVE THE BOSS!!!! I NEED MY DPS!!"
and then..
"Oh..i can ...
Explaining to Hunters what Tranq shot does, was like, an every dungeon thing for me.
ionic fern
Jeah, it's crazy. 😦
uneven mason
"Tranq the big red one plz"
"We don't have a resto druid wtf are you asking for tranq"
... (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
ionic fern
I was playing my bear on the raging week and i joined a 5 druid group to my surprise thinking.."Oh, nice..now we can all soothe!!!"
And then i proceeded to be the only one soothing.
uneven mason
Healer wanted to parse
fallen rose
i am in an annoying situation i do all content, pvp, raiding and M+ prot/arms in M+, arms in PVP and prot in raid, so i dont know if is should stay kyrian to make M+ and raid abit easier or go condemn for PVP (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
dusty yacht
Hey GUYS ! some of you have test the new rework legendary for shield blok on ptr ?
ionic fern
It's crazy how people are not using half of their classes utility.,
outer solstice
@fallen rose why would you go ventyr for PvP? kyrian is the PvP way
uneven mason
i am in an annoying situation i do all content, pvp, raiding and M+ prot/arms in...
Kyrian is a powerhouse in PVP