for a tank yeah
#protection
mental anchor
But it’s not like pods tender you’re still there tanking?
compact palm
just slap a casual 400% buff on thunderclap and call it a day thx
outer solstice
I think you loose aggro
jagged pier
^^
outer solstice
and can't even taunt
jagged pier
u technically die
mental anchor
Ohhh if you lose aggro
outer solstice
that would be a tad.... OP
uneven mason
just slap a casual 400% buff on thunderclap and call it a day thx
I'd settle for it to be back up to Revenge level dmg and un nerf UF
stark sage
for DDs it's useable
i think dps like heirmir mostly for the 4% main stat or w/e the first tier dps trait is
outer solstice
I'd settle for it to be back up to Revenge level dmg and un nerf UF
I'd hope they just make AM baseline at some point for warriors
outer solstice
i think dps like heirmir mostly for the 4% main stat or w/e the first tier dps t...
yeah probably
uneven mason
I mean, pressing TC every few seconds
or slapping revenge?
Like, IDK Revenge slapping is just as boring as if we had devastate
outer solstice
revenge at least requires you too look in the direction of the mobs
jagged pier
might point is i like have rav and ITF for different content
uneven mason
revenge at least requires you too look in the direction of the mobs
So does block
outer solstice
not if they are out of melee because you have 10 gazillion yards TC range
TC just feels braindead
outer solstice
or make it so that revenge hitting a single target hits hard
mental anchor
Stronger single hit with smaller shockwave sounds nice
outer solstice
that sounds fury
uneven mason
Take dmg revenge does vs 5 targets
astral crystal
also cheat death effects are kinda traps for tanks imo
plush tendon
naw, that single hit with a shockwave affect should be shield slam
uneven mason
make it do that if it only hits 1 target.
mental anchor
Yeah I feel that too
compact palm
cheat death super useful when learning mechanics for first time
outer solstice
or just put a damaging aura on IP
compact palm
after that u should know when spikes are happening
uneven mason
Not Dreamweaver or the NL ones
outer solstice
so that we don't have to choose how to dump rage
plush tendon
Its also troll when you die, tell your healer you died, him being like what you mean, why cant I heal you, thne die 10 seconds later as you explain how the cheat works
compact palm
I love the necro cheat death
amber herald
I'd like heroic strike back
compact palm
its all the cheat with all the death
uneven mason
Big DPS Buff that goes with the prot warrior aesthetic - give us shield spikes
outer solstice
I'd like heroic strike back
put IP on it
outer solstice
Big DPS Buff that goes with the prot warrior aesthetic - give us shield spikes
eeeewwww BC paladin
amber herald
give heroic strike and make it cast revenge and IP
compact palm
make venthyr for prot cast a 70% effective IP
compact palm
?
plush tendon
That would be a pretty cool talent, having spikes on your armor
uneven mason
whats that gonna help?
compact palm
let me play venthyr for all content :^)
compact palm
oh
plush tendon
maybe make a talent row as differnet types of armor like mirror (for magic DR or something), spikes for damage, heavy for physical
with aesthetic changes!
uneven mason
Nah we need to stay out of the "Magic DR" situation, we have tools for that, and they're quite effective when properly applied
getting passive magic DR gives them a reason to nerf our physical mit
which we wanna keep
plush tendon
just brainstorming; really just want spikes now
uneven mason
SR DS IP and SW and LS are all fairly good at dealing with damage we can't block.
modern brook
slightly unrelated but IDG how ppl can look at the class with spell reflect and say "yeah its weakness is magic damage"
uneven mason
LS being used as padding or recovery
plush tendon
Then they could make Bolster baseline as god intended -_-
uneven mason
Because people don't understand warriors toolkits
outer solstice
and many dots are magic
outer solstice
yep
outer solstice
f****** bleeds
plush tendon
its when I get a cut
modern brook
Magic dots we can spell reflect
plush tendon
it really hurts
uneven mason
and some bleeds are environmental so we can't even DS the source to help
sterile moss
Revenge feels bad as an ST rage spender... give us heroic strike, make it cost execute amount of rage, and make it usable on targets above execute range
modern brook
heroic strike is for nerds stop
plush tendon
thats another button though
amber herald
not playing dwarf 😑
sterile moss
Macro it with execute
uneven mason
Revenge feels bad as an ST rage spender... give us heroic strike, make it cost e...
Why another button? Just make revenge deal its 5 target damage in ST.
plush tendon
I want less buttons
uneven mason
Like give revenge its 5 target dmg amount, and then "Splits this damage between all targets"
outer solstice
yep
uneven mason
solves our ST issue without impacting AE.
compact palm
square root scaling?
plush tendon
^ wow, much smart
uneven mason
eh
sterile moss
Tired of revenge spam lol
outer solstice
oh well, we have a lot more buttons than other classes
main wasp
with the change to reprisal, is Unstoppable Force + Anger Management viable for M+/raid instead of the current Ravager/Bolster?
outer solstice
if you exluce droods and priest
signal plover
UF is dogshit, and will continue to be so
uneven mason
Tired of revenge spam lol
Ok, every spec has a "spam" in their rotation that is used to fill gaps.
but for BDK
because BDK likes waiting
outer solstice
with the change to reprisal, is Unstoppable Force + Anger Management viable for ...
AM is already amazing
uneven mason
with the change to reprisal, is Unstoppable Force + Anger Management viable for ...
UF will never make a comback unless they undo all the nerfs in early BFA
main wasp
seems like Bolster is taken to fill in gaps between Shield Block downtime, which the new Reprisal rework will fix
modern brook
I did some napkin math
uneven mason
UF is bad because it requires you to spend GCDs on an ability that does less damage than auto attacks
modern brook
IIRC in avatar; Thunderclap with UF still does less than revenge
with no other buffs
modern brook
nice talent :^)
uneven mason
indeed.
compact palm
what would it have to be buffed too to make it usable again
uneven mason
member when Thunderclap did more damage then your dps
Yes, 8.0 prot, the nuclear bomb
plush tendon
Yes, 8.0 prot, the nuclear bomb
more like 8.1. Bastion of Might, IP off GCD, reaping
sterile moss
That lightning glyph on tc is great comic effect now
uneven mason
I was doing 6 figure DPS in 8.0
8.1 is when they buffed prot enough that smoothbrains could figure out how to use shield block
also when we didn't have to shield wall throw stone
because blocking rocks is hard
main wasp
damage-wise it's lower, but TC is fury gen, and revenge is fury spender, so defensively, wouldn't having UF for TC spam help with keeping up SB and Ignore Pain? I don't have the numbers, just thinking about it theoretically
signal plover
The issue is that the numbers (which the lovely TCs here did awhile back) don't support the theory
plush tendon
and with Shield Slam procs, revenge procs, etc. you miss a lot of use
now if TC was uncapped.....
brittle vale
Shield slam
floral pewter
damage-wise it's lower, but TC is fury gen, and revenge is fury spender, so defe...
Ravager gives better burst rage gen on a shorter cooldown, and ITF almost certainly gives more total rage gen in addition to increasing SB uptime
if the comparison is UF vs nothing, then sure UF is better, but it's a bad talent against two other talents that are actually pretty good
modern brook
8.1 is when they buffed prot enough that smoothbrains could figure out how to us...
TRUEEEE bro
Its irrelevent now but for 2 years ive had to just grin and bear it whenppl were like damn prot buffs really made the class
signal plover
I mean there's only like 12 of us total that main warr season to season
uneven mason
damage-wise it's lower, but TC is fury gen, and revenge is fury spender, so defe...
Ravager is 1 GCD and produces more rage.
UF also has negative synergy with AM, since you're spending GCDs producing rage and not spending it.
chilly brook
damage-wise it's lower, but TC is fury gen, and revenge is fury spender, so defe...
Youd have to have a ton of thunderclaps (more than realistically possible) to actually outpace ravager
wanton condor
UF also has negative synergy with AM, since you're spending GCDs producing rage ...
You can always hit Ignore Pain though?
I'd say UF and BSC have some negative synergy (and some positive synergy) where I'm not sure what the net is
uneven mason
I mean, you could. THe point is, Ravager does more damage, better rage gen, costs 1 GCD, and allows you to spend that rage continuously on either dmg or defense.
wanton condor
but AM and UF have really strong positive synergy, it's just that UF kind of sucks right now
basically as haste and conduit level increases UF will become better, but probably not high enough
uneven mason
It doesn't have strong positive synergy, taking UF leads to slower rage spend
over the other 2 options.
modern brook
Uf sucks. Clap sucks, ip sucks
mossy sluice
600 damage thunderclap yep
wanton condor
I mean, the question is how much total rage UF generates rather than the speed, given that it lasts shorter than ravager's CD
modern brook
I mean the value of uf as far as rage gain goes will only be the extra claps
uneven mason
UF also steps on a lot of SS resets
modern brook
The problem is that clap isnt good anymore so pressing more of it isnt a dps gain
So 1) the actual rage gain of like 5ish extra stomps will not outpace ravager and 2) the damage is anemic anyways so like why bother
wanton condor
ravager is what, 60 rage?
signal plover
I think the core of the issue with UF is TC base dmg.
mossy sluice
^
wanton condor
UF is extra thunderclaps + extra resets from that
uneven mason
So yeah, we can go in circles, but it just comes down to, TC is too weak of a button, that even when buffed your opportunity cost from using the other 2 talents is quite high, DPS loss and RPS loss.
wanton condor
yeah, the problem is that the damage isn't there
signal plover
Everything else is secondary to that
wanton condor
UF doesn't help with snap aggro on pulls and its constant damage is meh
sick sentinel
Rage gain higher with thunderlord/ UF/shout compared to ravager but so much weaker
DPS wise
signal plover
Also, we hit TC enough times for one lifetime in BFA lol
uneven mason
gotta maintain that 72% DS uptime
sick sentinel
The best defense is when enemies die
radiant kraken
Also, we hit TC enough times for one lifetime in BFA lol
Yet.... I still look back on those days and miss them.
signal plover
Bleh
uneven mason
I miss the damage
wanton condor
I think there's a good argument for thunderlords with UF if you have a rogue/hunter for aggro, as it lets you have infinite DMS, but it's most certainly undertuned
uneven mason
I don't care if the damage is tied to TC revenge or what, just give me back my DPS
signal plover
It's just the dmg and rage feedback ppl miss, not the "rotation"
uneven mason
AM being so stronk too
signal plover
Hence rage feedback
uneven mason
We were able to have a CD available for 90% Of a fight
modern brook
TLord with UF is still worse than Tlord with ravager/itf
blazing condor
i swear pugging HC nowdays is harder than how it was earlier in the xpac cus everyone is log-whoring their asses off and not caring about mechanics
uneven mason
☝️@ bull
blazing condor
which, if everyone has great DPS, could work - but they dont
modern brook
honestly imagine going for top parses in heroic without a garunteed pi
modern brook
in retrospect i think thats inarguable
blazing condor
looking at the log people were pulling 80s at max
uneven mason
Its not quite competitive with TW for M+ and now that reprisal is coming up
chilly brook
It doesn't have strong positive synergy, taking UF leads to slower rage spend
In a vacuum it does have positive synergy
uneven mason
TL is gonna be another dead lego with no purpose due to the nerf.
chilly brook
The problem is the tuning is abysmal
uneven mason
If we could apply our talents in a vacuum they'd all be fine, even NS!
chilly brook
Lol
modern brook
Imagine that Tlords gives our 20% dr ability the same uptime as DHs get on brand
SMH
"one of these leggos is BUSTED" - blizzzard
chilly brook
Just the talents themselves do have synergy
They're just a poor combination because of tuning
uneven mason
Imagine that Tlords gives our 20% dr ability the same uptime as DHs get on brand
Right, the wowhead comment on Reprisal needs to rein himself in, because he's like OMFG ITS SO STRONG SO OPits - still not quite as good as brand but you know fuck warriors.
solid gulch
At this point there’s no point taking my Tlord boots from 190>235 right? Might as well save the ash for reprisal
uneven mason
might as well
chilly brook
Right, the wowhead comment on Reprisal needs to rein himself in, because he's li...
I mean its llarold
modern brook
you can justify it to 225 tbh
uneven mason
I've said it so many times
chilly brook
I cant take a lot of his stuff seriously
modern brook
but the 235 jump is too high
chilly brook
I like the guy
modern brook
And frankly you can just set and forget the wall until reprisal is out
chilly brook
But some of the stuff he says lmao
uneven mason
Warriors get something that is almost on par with what other tanks get and we lose our minds that is the most OP thing ever.
modern brook
and honestly i think the wall will compete with whatever the final version of reprisal is
uneven mason
Reprisal yay SB uptime - still does not adress any of the issues we face as a spec (DPS)
modern brook
Reprisal yay SB uptime - still does not adress any of the issues we face as a sp...
i mean
If we're quiet about that
We'll get into keys more
uneven mason
(high dmg bleeds)
modern brook
becuase "reprisal will fix warrior"
uneven mason
will get it nerfed
modern brook
same way 8.1 ignore pain off gcd fixed warrior :^)
uneven mason
before it even hits live.
modern brook
? brand is good because its got likea 95% uptime
uneven mason
yes, like we had with BFA
chilly brook
Brand is up so much lol
modern brook
synergy is secondary
uneven mason
Lets not forget they have 1min reuse on their shield wall
chilly brook
Fuckin nuts
modern brook
Running the legendary literally just says "you take half damage from this guy and maybe some of his friends"
uneven mason
that heals them
lavish oracle
Yeah, bull, because of the insane amount of options they have to improve uptime
IE synergies
uneven mason
if they made it so Ravager healed us for the dmg it dealt while applying SW when we cast, would put us on par with what Demonic does for DHs
frail wyvern
Just rip up prot warrior conduits and start again, they are trash compared to options other tanks have
uneven mason
Stalwart guardian isn't bad
chilly brook
Not really
chilly brook
Our endurance conduits are pretty good
modern brook
Our potencies are dog shit eyah
frail wyvern
The IP one and the thunderclap/revenge ones kinda suck
frail wyvern
Also the deep wounds heal one
frail wyvern
Then you get my point? 😂
uneven mason
since the other trees you don't double potency
uneven mason
I mean, if you think ours is bad
modern brook
Then you get my point? 😂
is your point that we have 3 good endurance conduits, 2 good finesse conduits, and no good potency conduits?
uneven mason
look at BDKs
lavish oracle
I would like a good potency conduit
uneven mason
yeah I'd like a good potency one too
lavish oracle
Although Ashen Juggs not bad ST
lavish raptor
New to prot, how exactly does reprisals rework make it so OP? Is it the playstyle being able to get a free SB after every pull?
chilly brook
Although Ashen Juggs not bad ST
I do like increasing my chance for 14k condemns
uneven mason
TBH Seismic shouldn't have been a legendary
it should've been our potency conduit
thats how sad that lego is for 40%
modern brook
New to prot, how exactly does reprisals rework make it so OP? Is it the playstyl...
it frees up a lot of early rage for revenge spam
chilly brook
New to prot, how exactly does reprisals rework make it so OP? Is it the playstyl...
Because you can get huge uptime of shield block
Charge in
Boom
Shield block
Intercept boom
Shield block
Leap out charge
Boom shield block
uneven mason
Charge + avatar gives you SB, a free revenge and 60 rage
modern brook
- the revenge proc it gives
mossy sluice
revenge proc for snap agro seems juicy as well
chilly brook
It means we have 4 charges of shield block and not 2
lavish oracle
Insane increase to block uptime (which is by far the best physical mitigation in the game already)
uneven mason
so its basically like charge is worth, 90 rage itself
lavish oracle
And then like, lots of free rage
lavish raptor
Copy that. So it's all playstyle. ATM I hardly ever use intervene
floral pewter
more SB uptime = more buffed shield slams, most important part
uneven mason
Copy that. So it's all playstyle. ATM I hardly ever use intervene
Intervene prepull for 12s of SB on engage
chilly brook
Copy that. So it's all playstyle. ATM I hardly ever use intervene
I wouldn't say it's really playstyle
It literally just doubles our charges of shield block
uneven mason
we hardly have a reason to use intervene unless you're running safeguard
or you're saving a healer from goliaths
chilly brook
Which is our most potent source of mitigation
lavish oracle
@lavish raptor if the PTR buff goes live for reprisal, you're going to want to intervene more 😄
lavish raptor
For sure lol
lavish oracle
Are there any targeted boss mechanics we can soak with intervene this xpac?
I remember there were a lot last expansion
lavish raptor
And just to clarify, using charge or intervene will proc SB right? Or is it a charge
chilly brook
Are there any targeted boss mechanics we can soak with intervene this xpac?
Pretty sure you can do it for sinseeker
Could be wrong
uneven mason
it gives us the buff "Shield Block"
chilly brook
But like that would also be inting
lavish raptor
Ok yeah that's what I thought, so you can use charge for SB on pull and not have it dip into your SB stacks. Thats awesome
lavish oracle
Yeah, @chilly brook I was thinking more like Eudoras Azerite powder shot and the like
uneven mason
save that 30 rage
chilly brook
Ok yeah that's what I thought, so you can use charge for SB on pull and not have...
Youd still want to spend one of the charges of shield block
floral pewter
Pretty sure you can do it for sinseeker
can you then reflect the sinseeker to prevent the dot?
chilly brook
To get it rolling
chilly brook
can you then reflect the sinseeker to prevent the dot?
Yes you can
floral pewter
nice
chilly brook
Do it as fury
uneven mason
most targeted boss abilities seem designed to sotp you from intervene cheesing them
chilly brook
📈
lavish oracle
It was one of our few relevant utilities
chilly brook
I'd assume it's not intentional
Theres really not many of them this tier tbh
Or in dungeons
uneven mason
WW getting nerfed
"Fixing bugs" != nerf
uneven mason
Right, but they're bugs
lavish oracle
Yeah, do you remember when demo had a bug that was doing like 30% of their AoE in dungeons?
Fixing that was a nerf
uneven mason
Very sloppy logic for the WEF copies
balmy coral
Anyone gonna run BSC with represial?
sweet summit
bdc?
mossy sluice
big donk club
sweet summit
oh, yeah for sure
balmy coral
BSC*
modern brook
you would yeah
lavish oracle
I'll be swapping to BSC 100%
modern brook
You no longer need the rage gen from BV
balmy coral
Even for raids?
chilly brook
Very sloppy logic for the WEF copies
Everyone is crying to just remove SEF in the comments lmao
modern brook
That row will 100% depend on where he break points for when Droar out damages BSC
(assuming current reprisal makes it to live (which it should))
without doing any math, BSC will come out ahead almost always
Full confidence in that
specifically when paried with reprisal
lavish oracle
With 5 free Revenge! Procs, I don't think it ever will
balmy coral
I'm curious if Reprisal will make us viable in mythic+.
uneven mason
"viable"
jagged pier
we are viable for m+
smoky wave
Wait, we're not viable? no one told me! I'll stop
uneven mason
"viable" that word.
uneven mason
I'm curious if Reprisal will make us viable in mythic+.
Guessing you're one of those people who just glance at the first page of Raider.io without actually knowing mechanically what is going on.
So no its not going to enable us to kite for hours while spamming pewpew DD AEs for hours on end.
It will make us very strong
vs blockable damage
and free up a lot of our rage budget for DPS
balmy coral
Well prot warriors to cap out around +10 for pugs, most pugs won't take a DK or Prot warrior past that and +15s prot pallies also get the boot.
copper venture
idk, i invited a 213 prot tank yesterday to a +16 NW key and it was the easiest healing experience i've ever had
jagged pier
im am consufed
uneven mason
I find it easier to get into +13s than +10s tbh
balmy coral
Yea, my guilds only do mythic+ ok be day a week, most of the +10 keys I see or higher say no DK/Prot warrior.
lavish oracle
Groups didn't take that long to invite
uneven mason
I don't think I've ever actually seen "No DK/PRot" in the notes
jagged pier
^^
uneven mason
I know I've been turned down a ton
balmy coral
I see it daily and nearly every key or I get turned down for low damage spec.
uneven mason
of course I've been turned down a ton of my Resto shaman and Guardian druid too
copper venture
+10 range with +/- 2 differential is pretty toxic tbh
jagged pier
i see DH tank occationally but not all the time cause tanks are in high demand
lavish oracle
I haven't tried running a 10 in a while I guess, maybe shit's toxic down there
balmy coral
I mean I would assume an 800 raider IO is good enough for a +10. I have around 30 keys at 5-9 and ilevel 205.
jagged pier
just do more damage and prove ppl wrong @balmy coral
copper venture
i've had the worst luck with DH tanks - they typically don't know what they're doing and are meta slaves
lavish oracle
To be fair, I fucking hate disc
uneven mason
Prot is sleeper beast
balmy coral
In order to do damage you spam revenge which will rage starve you.
uneven mason
absorbs + prot mtigation
lavish oracle
I never see good discs, only bad ones
uneven mason
My HP almost never drops below 100%
jagged pier
In order to do damage you spam revenge which will rage starve you.
ive never been rage starved
uneven mason
In order to do damage you spam revenge which will rage starve you.
run bolster for higher keys
balmy coral
Well in order to do respectable DPS you have to spam revenge.
balmy coral
I currently do run bolster.
lavish oracle
My issue with disc is they're bad at playing catch up, and we have very few ways to help
jagged pier
theres a difference between spamming revenge and playing correctly so u can do damage and keep rage
uneven mason
My issue with disc is they're bad at playing catch up, and we have very few ways...
yeah if the disc isn't ahead of the damage it can get bad real fast.
balmy coral
That being said I am also venthyr so that doesn't help things.
uneven mason
they have no means to catch up
#1 Protection warrior in the world was Venthyr for quite a while
jagged pier
^^
uneven mason
Plka
lavish oracle
That said, he's night fae now
jagged pier
yes but he was venthyr for a very long time and did most of his still highest keys as venthyr
balmy coral
Hoping to move to necto next patch.
uneven mason
What can I say 
its blue and sparkles
balmy coral
Necro*
uneven mason
once the necro buff goes in, prot will be in a unique position of truely, covenant does not matter
they all have pluses and minuses
astral crystal
lavish oracle
Bear is already in that position
uneven mason
yeah
lavish oracle
Monk has like 3 good covenants
uneven mason
monk has 2 and a 3rd that isn't complete trash
we've had 3
and a 4th that is 🤮
but now Necrolord will be for the sub crew
altho
red wave
I'm extremely torn on which cov to go too - I am Vent ATM for 'what was' PvE arms but now I do M+ as Fury exclusively, and moving to be prot for raids so can't pick between Kyrian for raid, NF for M+, or wait for 9.0.5 Necro to be 'support'/another defensive.
uneven mason
I'm extremely torn on which cov to go too - I am Vent ATM for 'what was' PvE arm...
NF Fury trucks
legit 30k bursts
red wave
Yea, I've seen. It's also amazing in PvP. I think NF is the real winner.
lavish oracle
If you're raiding as DPS, probably just go venthyr
lavish oracle
Oh, misread
red wave
Yea raid is exclusively prot now.
lavish oracle
Night fae is probably best all around option, then, yeah
red wave
I PvP in the 1800-2000 range, so been debating goin NF anyway since Vent is pretty mediocre.
Kyrian just tempts me with vials, haha.
lavish oracle
Kyrian spear is great in pvp too
red wave
You convinced me, NF it is.
lavish oracle
Little bit of extra lockdown
uneven mason
NF is a knockdown/interrupt
Kyrian is tether
so, both have their use. people will run out of Aftershock, but that initial burst dmg from it + stun
the burst is impressive
lavish oracle
a tether works very well for arms PvP game plan, though
lavish oracle
Should really just bind them all to the delete key 😄
uneven mason
IKR
lavish oracle
Do we have new PTR notes, is that why someone was mentioning WW bug fix?
Or is that a hotfix for tomorrow
brisk flax
Shield slam still based upon your shields stats? Or have they moved that to weapon damage as well?
uneven mason
its undocumented changes on 9.0.5
so no new notes
just stuff that wasn't mentioned
because they're bugfixes
lavish oracle
Ah
brisk flax
I remember it used to be based upon shield Block value
lavish oracle
@brisk flax it's weapon damage afaik, if you have some weapons and shields to swap around in your bags though, you could always check
lavish oracle
Well, yeah, weapon damage has the biggest impact on AP
brisk flax
Ya I was wondering cause my shield is trash 213 and my weapon is 226 and I feel like I could be doing more damage with SS
I try and maintain SB uptime to buff the damage too
uneven mason
so its 85% of your attack power
then is increased by 20% by the 4th rank
(the AP calc stays 85%, just the end dmg is increased)
then SB increases it further
brisk flax
Top end would be the more ideal choice then
uneven mason
I mean you want the highest ilvl shield anyway
because shields have a ton of str on them
brisk flax
Ya I think that's what is hurting me most currently
uneven mason
and it makes us more durable in general
brisk flax
Shield has always been a pain point for me >.<
uneven mason
eh, whats probably hurting you is that Protections damage output is woefully undertuned compred to the other tanks
lavish oracle
213s not that bad
uneven mason
I was using a pvp 197 until I think my 6th week into heroic
lavish oracle
I still get 90-95 parses with a 213 shield
mossy sluice
213 shield club
uneven mason
course now that I have the 220weapon/213 shield I've been getting those anima things every damn boss.
lavish oracle
I'm just hoping tomorrow I open my chest to find a glorious 226 shield
brisk flax
Well I'm 221 ilvl overall, with a 213 shield, pretty much the biggest thing hurting me right now I think. My other 213 is a ring so no mainstat
uneven mason
our class is tuned like garbage for DPS
brisk flax
And warriors benefit so greatly from mainstat
lavish oracle
Well they are for Fury and Arms
uneven mason
not really
brisk flax
Ya they fucked us up pretty bad for sure. Only class that got screwed more than us is Feral druids lol
uneven mason
they're nickle and diming arms and fury
mossy sluice
feral pumps
lavish oracle
Because they gave them like 10% worth of aura buffs
uneven mason
the little buffs they've been doing are pathetic
not even trying
they're not giving them aura buffs
they're giving them buffs to ability damage
which are smaller than they appear on paper
brisk flax
They need to remove that bullshit they did to revenge and put all the buffs back on the CD reduction talent once again.
uneven mason
and not addressing the core issues with the specs
lavish oracle
The other issue is that Fury and Arms both bring a raid buff and Rally, and insane execute damage
uneven mason
They need to remove that bullshit they did to revenge and put all the buffs back...
No, they just need to buff revenge to do substantial damage
lavish oracle
Arms is kinda shit, yeah
uneven mason
its good in some situations
and godly in PVP atm
that is whats holding them back
Arms is very strong in PVP
open monolith
% chance Reprisal goes live?
lavish oracle
But fury is good in any encounter with sustained cleave
uneven mason
they don't wanna spend the time to adjust it
strong forum
% chance Reprisal goes live?
N
open monolith
N, or No, lol
strong forum
N
brisk flax
Idk man Anger Management reducing cds like it used to would be fuckin huge
brisk flax
And increase the range of the revenge cleave cone too imo
uneven mason
AM having everything back on it wouldn't help our damage
lavish oracle
@open monolith I'd give it like 60% odds of going live
open monolith
Make revenge cast shockwave every time it's used imo
And make thunder clap silence
brisk flax
Minus the stun you mean I hope hahaha
uneven mason
put a sock in it
open monolith
nope. 5 second full duration 0 DR stun
open monolith
I do have one suggestion that's not a troll
lavish oracle
Just aura buff us like 3-5% and buff shield slam damage by like 15% and we're golden on damage
open monolith
Give warriors lust. Call it inspiring shout or something
open monolith
It would add to warrior viability, and give lust to the tank slot for the first time
open monolith
I am aware that warrior is viable, I don't need you to lecture me on that
Community perception, and reality are two different things and you know it
I think it would be interesting to see blood lust in the tank slot that's all
brisk flax
I also feel like devastator should come off the talent tree and just be a passive thing we have at this point
lavish oracle
Ignore community perception, it's worthless
uneven mason
basically
open monolith
Yes
uneven mason
if they wanted to add "mechanics" they could make SnB increase SS damage by another 25%
but a simple aura buff would do
lavish oracle
Nah, our ST is what's so far behind
strong forum
Aoe is aswell
wet compass
Or give us the ability to get free executes as well as revenge
open monolith
I just think it would be interesting to allow tanks to have lust :) and I would argue that, thematically, bloodlust fits the warrior class better than anyone else
brisk flax
Rework the first tier of our talent tree
wet compass
like be able to choose one or the other
lavish oracle
We're behind on aoe but not by 20%
strong forum
Or monk even
brisk flax
Take off devastator and put the Shield Slam talent in first tier lol
wet compass
We are behind by a lot on single target
open monolith
@brisk flax no fuck you i love devastator
uneven mason
Take off devastator and put the Shield Slam talent in first tier lol
Punish is already in the first tier.
brisk flax
And make Devastator passive
wet compass
Make devastator base line and give us something cool in it's spot
lavish oracle
Guardian also only pumps if they're owl weaving convokes
uneven mason
we don't want them fiddling with talents
or adding new stuff
just buff our damage
brisk flax
I'm saying make Devastator the new playstyle, remove it from the talent tree and make us just have it.
uneven mason
they created auras for just this purpose
wet compass
Thing is aura buffing is not usually good practice
open monolith
I wonder why they have been so hesitant to do anything with prot warrior this expansion
lavish oracle
Nah, I hate devastator
wet compass
like havoc dh is reaching the point of possibly being op as fuck because they keep aura buffing it
strong forum
It's not good practice, but it's the easiest solution rn for us
Since we lack dmg in all departments
lavish oracle
I like being able to swap off devastator
wet compass
Yeah but I would rather the class was iterated on
uneven mason
I wonder why they have been so hesitant to do anything with prot warrior this ex...
Because we're strong defensively
open monolith
Do we at least out DPS bears?
strong forum
No
wet compass
Hah no sock no way in fuck
uneven mason
Bears are some of the highest DPS tanks
open monolith
Oh really?
uneven mason
Bur Deepus is crazy
strong forum
A good bear does more than us
brisk flax
I want a repeat of late BFA hahahahaha
open monolith
I could have sworn I remember the opposite being true
wet compass
I mean it's good but it's not pally level
lavish oracle
@open monolith We probably out DPS resto affinity bears
uneven mason
Balance affinity bears
strong forum
A good guardian pulls 4.5-5k dps even on high keys
uneven mason
is where its at
wet compass
pally is nipping on the heals of actual dps
open monolith
Oh right, I wasn't really talking about bears using balance convoke
But I guess that's part of the kit, so it should be considered
storm sigil
We need better self heals
uneven mason
resto bears also beat us
strong forum
We need better self heals
No
modern brook
lol
open monolith
Warriors definitely don't need any additional survivability
strong forum
We all do
storm sigil
Lol . Clearly you don’t get attacked by many sub rogues as prot
uneven mason
I miss not give a fuck about what my healer was doing
Prot is the best tank for that though
brisk flax
And taking Ignore pain back to beginning of legion days would be sexy too
blazing condor
Who does pvp as tank
I did for my first like 1000 sr it was fun as shit
uneven mason
I'd accept Antorus IP
storm sigil
Prot pvp in rbgs is god?
open monolith
@uneven mason as somebody who has healed their way through KSM, I would say the bears by far my favorite low maintenance tank
lavish oracle
We got indom, that's good enough
open monolith
Warrior being right behind it
storm sigil
I rbg as leaper, warpath and oppressor .
uneven mason
Yeah burs when they are resto affinity and played right can recover crazy HP
why guardian is my 2nd favorite tank to play atm.
storm sigil
Every time you leap you stun the entire team
uneven mason
Every time you leap you stun the entire team
Fury, Barbarian, Leaper lego, 8 second flag carries go.
lavish oracle
I'm a big fan of UFR/incarn in keys
brisk flax
I think they are holding back on our buff because of what our Set bonus may have to offer.
open monolith
@uneven mason with a guardian in the group, I can basically ignore it the entire dungeon and just heal it through beacon. Warrior still demands a little bit of attention from time to time
Demon hunters and brewmasters make my butthole pucker
If they dont kite at the right times
brisk flax
Maybe our Set bonuses are going to be OP as fuck
lavish oracle
My hpally buddy already says he just ignores me and beacon heals
strong forum
They're going to be cosmetic sets
uneven mason
I'd rather have a strong base class
open monolith
You are likely more skilled than the warriors I have healed
strong forum
Tier sets are unlikely to have actual set bonuses
open monolith
I'm probably higher ilvl
brisk flax
I thought it was said they are being back tier sets
strong forum
Yes, cosmetically
brisk flax
With the old school bonuses
uneven mason
the Hpal I have healing me, spends so much time DPSing that they can beat me on some pulls
strong forum
Them having actual powers is not confirmed @brisk flax
lavish oracle
Mhm, my hpal buddies pull like 2k overall in most keys, it's pretty sick
strong forum
They're still figuring out how they wanna actually implement sets again
brisk flax
They better cause otherwise this expansion is going to turn into a bore fest really quick
strong forum
Implying it isn't already
open monolith
@uneven mason I sometimes beat DPS on pulls when wings is up. I usually just use all my cooldowns to DPS during pride so that we can kill it before I actually need to heal
strong forum
I've been exclusively raidlogging for over a month at this point
lavish oracle
I like Shadowlands, we just hit the like mid patch lull
open monolith
Yeah. My interest in the expansion got reinvigorated when I realized that my guild had no good healers for mythic Plus, so I switched to holy pally
Which is significantly more fun than anything else I've played so far
obtuse prism
i think the only buff we need is reduce thunderclap cd by half?
takes care of everything
mossy sluice
600 damage twice as often
lavish oracle
I am tempted to swap my pally to Venthyr and do holy keys
mossy sluice
hyuge
lavish oracle
For memes
open monolith
Divine toll feels way too good to use
strong forum
Increase TC dmg by 100-150%
That would be a start
Don't change the CD
Currently is 40% weaker than Revenge
lavish oracle
I don't know why they nerfed tc damage to begin with
strong forum
Cuz they're overcorrecting
They literally had a heart attack when nerfing our dmg and just flicked the mouse
And wherever it stopped
uneven mason
I don't know why they nerfed tc damage to begin with
Because during BFA it wasn't unusual to see a prot warrior pull 60% Of a groups total damage.
strong forum
That's where the nerf landed
somber sky
with the upcoming iteration of the shield block lego, if it goes out the way it is, would you not take the last stand talent that gives shield block?
somber sky
holy fk
somber sky
but it makes that cd a minute longer tho ye?
open monolith
Would we then replace the last stand conduit with something else?
somber sky
for magic heavy dungeons like DOS?
lavish oracle
Potentially, sock
lavish oracle
I mean sure, but last stand doesn't do much against magic damage
somber sky
yeah
strong forum
As much as it feels shti
lavish oracle
Not one that I need every 2 minutes, though
balmy coral
Should I swap to Kyrian or wait for 9.0.5 for Necro?
strong forum
Kyrian will still be overall the better covenant
finite field
Depends how much you play, going to be a good 3+ weeks until 9.0.5 in which time you can max renown
strong forum
For average use
lavish oracle
I don't know If it'll actually be worth swapping Necro for most people
strong forum
^
strange lintel
necro for pure tanks might be great right?
uneven mason
LS as a major CD
finite field
It really depends on your situation, personally I do m+ with a boomie and fire mage so new banner is gonna be huge for our setup. I'll be prot in raids but fury in m+ next tier
uneven mason
is really sad.
lavish oracle
What about Necro is good for fury?
mossy sluice
400 mastery i assume
uneven mason
mastery is insanely strong
balmy coral
Strength bonus and mastery buff.
finite field
Obscene amount of mastery and stats through your soulbind
lavish oracle
Sure, but pelagos gives 350
open monolith
What about new necro is good for prot?
uneven mason
Sure, but pelagos gives 350
add 28% strength
mossy sluice
fleshcrafting and simping
finite field
What about new necro is good for prot?
Fleshcraft and buffing your team mates
lavish oracle
Fair
uneven mason
Banner with the necrolord conduit gives you 27% str for 20s
open monolith
Buffing teammates, ew
finite field
Imagine buffing your team mates as a tank, ew 😉
uneven mason
without needing to have stuff stand in it
strong forum
If you're gonna be the token warrior sure
Might aswell run necro
Bigger dmg gain for the raid
mossy sluice
i can't imagine holding agro in m+ while simping
finite field
If you're raiding as a warrior you're probably the token anyways so you may as well give damage to others as well
mossy sluice
fire mage w/ banner w/ no spear or aftershock
open monolith
I don't think you could pay me enough to switch covenants at this point. Too much renowned catch up, having to do the campaign again, anima grind for upgrades.
Hard pass.
uneven mason
"anima"
strong forum
Anima is useless tho
open monolith
I like spear and phial. I'm happy
lavish oracle
I feel like there's no way you run Necro for M+ unless you run with a very consistent group
open monolith
Who needs necro Lord xmog when you have the normal mode nathria fur lined red plate
It looks so good
lavish oracle
Unless you wanna coordinate 2 minute banners with pugs
finite field
If you never intend on playing Fury or Arms then the cult is still probably better. But if you intend on doing a bit of dippus in m+ then I'd probably go necro
open monolith
I actually like the red better than mythic
But mythic definitely looks cool as hell
strong forum
mythic has some form of exclusivity to it
deep steppe
The only reason to run necro is if you're a simp 😤
mighty cairn
time to charge gold from your boomkins/dks to be their group during raid
uneven mason
I have mentioned I"m open to bribes
to swap to necro and provide the buff to people
I'll auction them off every pull
finite field
Does the banner prio people in your group when in a raid setting?
mossy sluice
its proximity
lavish oracle
Yeah, afaik it's the closest 2
If it's 3 people at the sane range, I have no clue how it sorts it out
finite field
Gonna require some interesting coordination so you don't give it to your co-tank or w/e 😄
lavish oracle
Yeah, that's part of why I don't think it'll be worth swapping for most peeps
Really finnicky/clunky to get good value out of it
somber sky
necrolord str conduit gives 27% str already?? Thought it was much lower than that for this tier.
lavish oracle
Might be combined with a node?
floral pewter
14% from conduit, 13% from Emeni
somber sky
WTF
finite field
I do a fair amount of m+ with a fire mage and a boomie so it works really well for me whether I'm tanking or DPSing
somber sky
taht's really really big
floral pewter
those might actually be multiplicative, in which case it's 28%
vernal yoke
So Necrolord, w/ Reprisal Leggo is a solid team play now?
uneven mason
Indeed
deep steppe
So Necrolord, w/ Reprisal Leggo is a solid team play now?
/IF/ they go live as they are right now
I still think reprisal will prolly get nerfed
but if it goes live
poggies inc
lavish oracle
If it survives tomorrow's patch notes there's no way it doesn't go live
vernal yoke
Whats the timeline on 9.0.5 release?
uneven mason
They shouldn't have a problem with giving us what other tanks have had all Xpac
bright salmon
On Huntsman, does the Rip Soul spawn at ur location or the dogs?
uneven mason
On Huntsman, does the Rip Soul spawn at ur location or the dogs?
Dogs
uneven wave
Question on Reprisal rework, it says it gives a charge of Revenge, does that mean it resets it's CD and makes it free of cost?
uneven mason
I know this because leaping out once the cast has started does nothing
the soul spawns right in the dogs butt
lavish oracle
Yes, sig
strong forum
Question on Reprisal rework, it says it gives a charge of Revenge, does that mea...
ît doesnt have a CD to begin with.
uneven mason
Question on Reprisal rework, it says it gives a charge of Revenge, does that mea...
revenge has no CD, but
yes it costs no rage
lavish oracle
It's the same as getting a proc from dodge or parry
uneven wave
Cool
uneven mason
"Revenge!" is the buff that 0s the cost from parry/dodge
its also buffed by 50% If you have BSC
uneven wave
Hope it doesn't get nerfed I'm about to make mine
uneven mason
yeah just save the soul ash
deep steppe
its also buffed by 50% If you have BSC
do you think BSC will be the pick over BV with reprisal?
uneven mason
0 reason to make it early
uneven mason
do you think BSC will be the pick over BV with reprisal?
its an option
lavish oracle
Revenge uses RPPM? I feel like I had heard that was the case at some point
uneven mason
since our rage budget is very high
Revenge uses "whenver the fuck I dodge or parry"
which isn't often
in ST
uneven wave
How do we get SB/Revenge to proc via charge in middle of a fight though? Do we have to leap our to gain distance and charge back?
lavish oracle
Embrace Dragon roar
sweet summit
DR 📈
strong forum
this is illegal
deep steppe
its an option
I was just curious cause, BV increases damage dealt, but more dam on the more revenges due to lego
tough choice
open monolith
9.0.5 mid march, 9.1 mid May, if I were a betting man
astral crystal
meanwhile me, a booming voice chad: 2,300 dps 😏
strong forum
maybe june
strong forum
corona.
deep steppe
BSC will likely shoot ahead
I'm curious what the difference will be. Cause I like BV, but 😔
obtuse prism
mos def longer than 6mo
astral crystal
this raid tier has also been pretty spicy
open monolith
I was a hermit before the pandemic so I kind of forgot it was even a thing :)
astral crystal
in terms of systems
uneven mason
CN actually has some zing to it on many fights
astral crystal
blizz probably playing long con just to experiment and gather data
uneven mason
I'm 89 pulls into Heroic Sire
open monolith
I like CN
I think it's a really well designed raid
lavish oracle
I don't mind the longer tier anyways
obtuse prism
as far as i could tell ally is no where near the 100 m clears of nathria to open cross realm m raid
lavish oracle
Gives me time to rebuild my M+ gear collection for valor points
rancid ember
lol
uneven mason
Like, without a kill?
Yup, welcome to the rest of the world
We've had rebuilding rosters
people not showing up
sub par DPS
undergeared folks
oh the problems
open monolith
Roster boss hardest boss
strong forum
more than expected
uneven mason
Like, we're 100% capable of killing him with what we have
lavish oracle
Yooo, well be able to PUG shriek in no time
uneven mason
if everyone showed up
open monolith
We have like... 15 regular showups. We've been trying to get enough people for mythic, but nobody needs a guild
uneven wave
Can anyone explain how we'll use our Charge to give us a SB when we're raid/boss tanking? I can see M+ tanking just stunning and running away/charging back, but what if you're tanking a boss?
strong forum
youre likely not gonna play reprisal in raid
only on very demanding bosses where you need to tank smth for 80%+ of the time
lavish oracle
I think you do play reprisal in raid, in at least most fights
uneven mason
I can just see using intervene on SLG or sludgefist
strong forum
SLG and Dena
uneven mason
seems like a good idea
strong forum
everything else, not really
lavish oracle
Not even close
uneven mason
yeah TW still prob gonna be top for raid
strong forum
uh yes it is
strong forum
Wall is around 80 extra rage per minute
uneven wave
TW = The Wall?
uneven mason
I'm not really sure you're going to gain anything from running out/charging back in
lavish oracle
Even if you're not tanking the boss most of the time you're saving so much rage on block
uneven mason
since you can only do that in times when you are effectively not being targeted (thus wasting SB uptime anyway)
floral pewter
I can just see using intervene on SLG or sludgefist
Sludgefist actually... maybe? Intervene the other tank while running out for stomp, charge back in
uneven mason
Intervening your other tank on Sludgefist is a good way to get rounded
floral pewter
not during stomp channel
uneven mason
not during stomp channel
would be close timing ¯_(ツ)_/¯
lavish oracle
Even then, sure, there are some fights maybe you don't use it for
uneven wave
Is double time the talent to get now with reprisal?
lavish oracle
But probably like 75% of encounters, it's the best legendary
lavish oracle
Yeah, you probably still run bolt in M+
floral pewter
would be close timing ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
make your cotank use a cancelaura macro? :p
uneven mason
TW still gives better leeway in situations since tank swapping often enough we have effective 100% SB uptime
uneven wave
If my cotank told me i have to keep aware when he intervenes me and make a cancelaura to use it whenever he does, i'd tell him to fuck off 🙂
uneven mason
SLG I can see Reprisal being for sure the go to, Dena possibly
open monolith
@uneven wave that's what communication is for. You tell him when to use the macro
uneven mason
Council
uneven wave
I'm just glad my co-tank is a pally and only thing I get is sweet WoG heals
uneven mason
Reprisal would be strong
but TW probably better
depending on if you're the kite bitch
lavish oracle
Or just macro it into every button 😄
uneven mason
I was kidding
uneven wave
@uneven mason TW = The Wall? thought it sucked
uneven mason
wat
open monolith
Wat
uneven mason
TW is our #1 lego atm
open monolith
lavish oracle
The Wall is our best leggo atm
floral pewter
imagine how much the #2 sucks though
uneven wave
really?
astral crystal
ya
open monolith
What did you think was better than the wall?
uneven mason
Its like, the only pick for raiding
lavish oracle
I mean, Thunderlord's is pretty poop, yeah
astral crystal
when you shield slam*
uneven mason
and still exceptionally strong in M+
open monolith
TL is nice in m+ but dogshit in raid
uneven wave
ooo I had TW confused for the shield wall one that gives SW to closest person
open monolith
Drugs are bad Sig.
uneven wave
Give me a break, i'm a zugzug Arms PvP main 😢
balmy coral
So I asked Kyrian or Necro for 9.0.5 for prot OS, I was told to stay Venthyr
B/c condemn>IP apparently
open monolith
If it's your offspec.... Go with whatever is better for your main
And that's only true on single Target
uneven mason
Condemn is better than IP for raiding
uneven wave
I already have all the bis main leggos
balmy coral
Apparently, everyone in the fury section (even prot MS Fury OS) Run condemn
uneven mason
and Venthyr has strong soulbinds
eh, some prob run NF
because NF is strong in M+ for fury
uneven wave
general draven prob the best tank soulbind in the game
uneven mason
The necrolord one that gives you a 15% absorb every time you dip below 50% Might be nice for tanking
come the patch.
balmy coral
Which one is that Sig?
chilly brook
If you're below 40 you're in trouble
And pre nerf drums basically every minute is big for shield block
open monolith
Or you got smacked by a single raging gargon in HOA
open monolith
I know.
uneven mason
one stack of that enraged bleed is basically time to wet yourself and run
chilly brook
Just sayin the pre nerf drums is more useful than the 10% under 40
elfin surge
[Ooz's Frictionless Coating] from Plague Deviser Marileth
chilly brook
Draven would be my last pick for tanking honestly from Venthyr
uneven mason
because you like to pump
chilly brook
Well yes but big haste is huge value defensively
Currently I'm using Theotar though because nadjia is for fury
I'd value the huge mastery defensively over draven as well tho
Literally BoM
uneven mason
"BoM" when you stood still for 12 seconds
shell hare
+16SD 
