protection

[lusty karma]

in m+ what just set focus and intervene off cd to get free sb's when needed i gues?

raid it seems more solid and you have another tank to intervene so it promotes that

[oak rapids]

the wall is so insane for raiding tho

like, 3 shield walls in a fight

insanity

[lusty karma]

yeah

the 2 charges of swall seems good too

idk

i want the revenge dmg one

i just wanna hit hard

[oak rapids]

yeah, for M+ it'll be mandatory

[median tulip]

I think that Reprisal will do more damage than Seismic, simply because of the free procs and extra Rage, while also being tankier

[lusty karma]

yeah it'll be interesting to see which ends up being more

every revenge hitting 75% for a 2nd hit is gonna be bhig too though

depends on intervene/charge cd vs it

[uneven mason]

I made a horrible mistake

tried to do a +13 pf with a pug Rdruid

why did i pick a Rdruid on grevious

[lusty karma]

idk i feel safest in high keys with rsham

hpal feels like my health is a rollercoaster, my least fav healer other than on necrotic weeks

for bop drrops, but kyrian makes that better

(that's if i'm not kiting)

[heavy sail]

Sounds like a bad HPally

[waxen cradle]

Hey guys need advice, progressing on Inerva Mythic. It is better to run Anger Management on that fight to give Shield Wall up more often with all the shadow damage yeah ?

[heavy sail]

Considering tank healing as a paladin is mindless

[final axle]

Woops uploaded my dog I think

[heavy sail]

@waxen cradle yeah most of the tank damage is the DoT

[tardy parcel]

hey, kings. just got heroic (220) sanguine vintage tonight - currently juggling 226 anime and 194 hymnal - which one should it replace? the hymnal?

[heavy sail]

Hymnal ye

[tardy parcel]

i'm gonna miss its like 6% overall dmg but... not having to use a 194 also makes my ego feel better lol

[waxen cradle]

@heavy sail Yeah just wondering as I feel I am being shredded by the shadow damage there, and running Bolster there seems like a waste as blocking more often is not going to make a big difference

[heavy sail]

Vintage is pretty good

Not as good as scale but it’s a great absorb

[tardy parcel]

yea i figure it'll be a wonderful stopgap til a high scale

[heavy sail]

Yup I think most Prot warriors are running AM for that fight.

[jaunty pendant]

so i strictly M+ wall or TL?

[lusty karma]

Depends, I tend to run TL but if I'm going higher keys I'd probably swap to wall

[final axle]

Both are great, personally prefer the wall lately

[somber sky]

is the new shield block lego good?

[dense hedge]

Best

[heavy sail]

Would be the best if it went live today

[ocean yoke]

false, leaper is bis of course

[lusty marsh]

https://i.imgur.com/AQV994M.png

WOOOO

[ocean yoke]

hell yeah, congrats dude

[waxen cradle]

grats dude

[lusty marsh]

There is so much damage in P3

[ocean yoke]

that dot slaps very quickly

i love that fight though

[sick sentinel]

is prot warrior harder to use than brewmaster monks?

or is it easy to u se?

[lunar phoenix]

So with Reprisal forcing a ton of Revenge! procs does Best Served Cold become a thing?

[solemn magnet]

Depends which you're more comfortable with. Brew feels smooth, but at the same time other than swigging a brew there not much agency in preventing damage, in my limited experience. To me pwarr has way more control over if/when/how much they take dmg. Whether that makes it easier or harder, that's kind of up to you to feel out.

[last mason]

10/10m mage dies to halkias frontal in halls

blames me XD

[finite bolt]

did u have a marker on your head?

[dull zodiac]

any cool mogs? so tired of lookin at my BRF mythic set for 5 years

[solemn magnet]

#transmog

[dull zodiac]

ohwow

thanks

[median tulip]

If it goes live as it is, then there's a compelling case for Reprisal + BSC instead of Booming Voice, sure. Big IF there tho.

[tardy parcel]

Huge grats dude!!! Tough fight - great work lol

[dull zodiac]

gz

reprisal changes?

havent seen it

on wowhead in ptr notes?

found it

how good is the buff to unbreakable will?

imagine being able to wear 2 legendaries at some point, new reprisal + seismic reverb

[lusty marsh]

damn, I should start farming ash again shouldn't I.

[sick sentinel]

I am looking at the legendary changes right now and some look pretty damn juicy TBH

So for mythic + I am thinking the NEW Reprisal and Thunderlord and then for raids I would rock The wall and the NEW Unbreakable Will

Shit looks JUICCCCYYYY

It's actually insane

Stoked

So that's if they allow two leggos, obviously 😛

Getting ahead of myself, I know

[lavish oracle]

Was 2nd leggo confirmed or are you just speculating about 9.2+?

[dull zodiac]

idk if i look forward to trying to min max charges and intervenes with double time

[sick sentinel]

I am 100% speculating lol

[lavish oracle]

You probably don't even need to take double time

It certainly gives double time a lot of value

But you're at 100% block uptime with or without, I think

[sick sentinel]

If you charged into a pack, got shield block, a free revenge for AoE threat 20 rage AND you had thunderlords with booming voice for the rage/dmg reduction I think it would be insane

Then if two leggos become a thing with the new Unbreakable Will and the current The Wall you'd give your raid a 50% reduction to damage every like minute? lol

maybe less?

Idk, I will have to look wayyy more into this.

[lavish oracle]

Honestly, if I had 2 leggos with Reprisal in it's PTR state, I'd go seismic reverb

And talent BSC

If I were in some very very high keys I might use UW

[sick sentinel]

There are so many possibilities I am seeing honestly with legendary combos and talents. I feel the winds of change coming in the meta 😛

[lavish oracle]

I mean, keep in mind some other classes also have very very strong leggo combos

I think DH honestly is the class with the least benefit from 2 legendaries

(Actually, I have no clue what monk leggos do really either now that I think about it)

[dull zodiac]

what do u guys c urrently run most often on the double time , rumbling ,storm bolt row in m+

[jagged pier]

storm bolt right now

[dull zodiac]

same for me

[jagged pier]

if reprisal goes through double time

[lavish oracle]

I'll probably try double time but it might be over kill

[dull zodiac]

ive noticed i dont charge often at all ,which i know is bad because it gives rage

dnt know exactly why

[lavish oracle]

W/ reprisal, I mean

[jagged pier]

thats not bad

[lavish oracle]

Right now, I always use stormbolt

[jagged pier]

u should have enough rage to not need to charge all the time

but with reprisal it changes your game play

so u will need to when u dont have SB charges

[lavish oracle]

I think the other thing is that double time gains value if you're not charging on CD, and if you're using reprisal, you definitely are

[dull zodiac]

is there an amount of haste that lets u have 100 percent uptime on shield block?

[smoky wave]

You can get 100% uptime without it, which I like cos I really like having a second single target stun. Makes sanguine and stuff that tiny bit less obnoxious

[jagged pier]

166%

[dull zodiac]

and is that something ud want to chase? im new to prot

166 lol

[jagged pier]

u cant get it

[dull zodiac]

ye figured

[jagged pier]

if u want to chase a %

39%

because then u get the 20% tax

but u dont need that ither

ilvl is the big thing

[severe cloak]

Does reprisal allow for 100% sb uptime?

[jagged pier]

at 2.5 mins its 95%

[lavish oracle]

The PTR version does

[jagged pier]

and at 7 mins with bolster

its 95%

[severe cloak]

Surely that's one of if not the strongest then

[jagged pier]

yes

[lavish oracle]

Yeah, if it makes it to live

[jagged pier]

^^

[lavish oracle]

And that's a big if

[severe cloak]

Seems very overtuned

[lavish oracle]

Honestly wouldnt mind seeing more powerful leggos for us

[jagged pier]

fixes the base issue with the class, but they could fix that instead of give us bored power

[lavish oracle]

But that one is just absurd

[dull zodiac]

the wall is good but its kinda boring

[lavish oracle]

The Wall is...fine

[dull zodiac]

i like the idea of unbreakable will .. always been into the idea of reducing ur allies dmg intake as a tank

i mean thats what u do alrdy , but u know what i mean ;D

[lavish oracle]

unbreakable will would be sick as a 2nd legendary

[dull zodiac]

its basically

tier 13

right

i fucking loved tier 13 set bonusses for tanks

[lavish oracle]

ye

I really like having a big support ability

[dull zodiac]

yep

just feels good and meaningful

rallying cry eh , i mean its not bad

[lavish oracle]

like I like the idea of necrolord but the implementation just seems awkward

[dull zodiac]

but is it rly a gamechanger rn anywhere?

i dont raid mythic or do very high keys on my warrior its an alt so i dont know rly

[lavish oracle]

Rallying Cry?

Rallying Cry is huge in raid

[dull zodiac]

ye dont rly riad on it yet

the only place ive been using it in m+ as a new prot warriro is on prides ;p

and if i can save someone thats about to die

or on millie in de other side if noone stuns her

<

[lavish oracle]

If it were on a 2 minute CD it'd be comparable in power to AMZ, I think

probably better with the conduit

I'm not a big fan of rally this week

because it means that healers have to do more throughput to clear grievous

[dull zodiac]

yep

itd be worth losing an endurance slot for a finesse then?

for m+

to run it?

atm im using 3 endurance slots and 1 potency

[lavish oracle]

Um, usually worth it over a third endurance in my experience

[dull zodiac]

drop unnerving focus?

[lavish oracle]

Nonono

Drop brutal vit

But this week I wouldn't use Inspiring anyways

[dull zodiac]

yea

what do u use on third row, the vial reduction, speed buff or the vial heal?

[lavish oracle]

The Phial heal is probably the best one but honestly just go for the best combo of conduits and only worry about those if you can get the same combo by swapping around slots

[dull zodiac]

yea makes sense

thanks

im still fairly new to all of it , learning myself where to block and reflect

x3 endurance offers me a little extra safety i suppose for now

did u ever go 2x potency?

like show of force seems OK ? but nothing crazy right

[jagged pier]

u can run what conduits u want it doesnt really matter tbh

[dull zodiac]

alrighty

[lavish oracle]

I like ashen jugg when I run a second potency but usually I only do it in raid

[dull zodiac]

do u mainly get to execute when the other tank is tanking?

[lavish oracle]

That said, I just rain a 13 mists with a guildy in my raid setup and pulled almost 4k overall 😄

[dull zodiac]

or can u get off some even when ur tanking

i guess it rly depends which boss

[lavish oracle]

Yeah, depends, usually

[dull zodiac]

i mean im happy we got execute back

[lavish oracle]

Makes me kinda miss heroic strike

[sick sentinel]

Me too

[dull zodiac]

i dont get what whirlwind is doing in our spellbook tho

flavor?

;P

[sick sentinel]

Its not even on my bars

It stays in the book

[lavish oracle]

I kind of assume it's literally for that one torghast power, lol

[dull zodiac]

i dont rly like they doing that with some classes

slam for fury etc

[lavish oracle]

Like it was just easier for them to code it if they gave us WW back

[dull zodiac]

i mean sure

if u have half a brain u wont use it

but for new players?

hm

idk

seems unnecesary

[sick sentinel]

Very

It's worse than thunderclap in every way

[dull zodiac]

;P

i like where ravager is at now

wasnt it doing like meme dmg in bfa?

as in extremely low

i cant rly remember for sure tho

[lavish oracle]

Not sure about the damage but it was on the same row as Anger Management and also completely stationary

So you definitely never picked it

[ionic fern]

It did like Devastate damage in BfA.

So it was horrible undertuned

[edgy venture]

I have TL, The Wall and the Avatar/Reck/BS Lego. Any others I should get (by the looks of it maybe the intervene and shield wall)

[median tulip]

If you are not in any danger of hitting the Soul Ash cap, I would reccomend holding onto the Ash until we see what changes come about with 9.0.5

[edgy venture]

Not even close to the cap, just wondering about future investments.

[median tulip]

We can't really sensibly answer that until we know for sure what the changes are

If the Reprisal change goes live then you will want to make that

[sweet summit]

👀

Dont mind the dragon roar

[dull zodiac]

hahaha

fuck mate

seeing thunderclap like that

the glory days

[sweet summit]

That was without UF as well :/

[dull zodiac]

dayum

[echo egret]

Yesterday i ran a M+ as fury with a paladin tanking... the amount of interrupts and ranged-casters-pulls he could perform, that was disgusting. On top of direct heals to remove grievous stacks.

[ionic fern]

Jeah, they are great at that.

[echo egret]

I felt a bit better armed for kiting though

[ionic fern]

Their mobility is worse and physical mitigation as well.

But their utility is way better. 🙂

[eternal glen]

i have 22% haste and 18 vers, should i raise my haste to 30 % and lower my vers at 10% or should i lower my haste to 19 and raise my versa to 22%?

any ideas or suggestions?

[nimble drift]

more haste

always better

[eternal glen]

should i go 30 haste to 10 vers?

[jagged pier]

whatevers higher ilvl

if its the same ilvl u take higher haste

unless its rings or neck then just take higher haste unless its like 10-15 ilvls high then just take it

[eternal glen]

it doesn't matter if i lose that much versa?

the most warriors playing around 20%

[jagged pier]

u really need to not care about stats

ilvl is king

im 225 and have 16% vers or som shit like that

its doesnt matter the strength and armour from higher ilvl is far better

[vestal peak]

question pls guys, what does the Recharge instead of Cooldown means that they are putting in Shield wall?

[ebon hound]

It means they are able to add several charges to it if they want to. Like the reworked legendary

[jagged pier]

its the same thing its just a leggo gives use 2 charges to its recharges a charge

[vestal peak]

thanks alot

[golden fern]

Prot warriors who got keystone Master this season. How does it feel to prove meta slaves wrong?
I'm aiming to get keystone Master on all roles (already done on holy pal) this season and have picked prot warr for my tank.

[jagged pier]

i mean KSM is very easy

your not proving anyone wrong tbh

as any class/covenant/ combination of anything can do KSM

[golden fern]

Majority of the playerbase aren't capable of pushing higher keys. But if I had to ask this question again later in the season, I would've rephrased it to "prot warriors who finished all 20 or higher"

[jagged pier]

i mean alot of the prot warriors that like to push usually arent pushing being theres no point with the m+ gear changes

like Nome usually pushes hes cant be arsed i do a little bit of pushing but i honestly cba after i got KSM

there was no point

like even after 9.0.5 i wont push theres still no point in it

just a waste of time

[golden fern]

Not just from a gear perspective. People who are genuinely dungeon nerds and like pushing keys

[jagged pier]

thats like >1% of the player base

and they will just play meta classes because they can push higher

[patent osprey]

it feels good

screw the meta slaves :)

[golden fern]

Haha, ayy. I saw your videos. You're amazing :D

[eager phoenix]

Getting all around 18s should also be more than possible for any team applying itself and taking m+ serious enough. If you expect to go 20 and beyond you need even more effort. Like, 20s have been done by all tank classes so choice in class isn’t holding anyone back. I feel Playing fotm is rarely a free win cus you still need to master whatever you play or else its just shit. Its QOL for pugging and might carry you while doing the lower tier stuff a bit.

[patent osprey]

^

I've recently been taking my little brother through 18-19 keys on his tank and he never played wow really before. m+ is all about knowledge

class and meta only start taking into play at 20+ keys

[golden fern]

Agree. People aiming to get higher I'll to combat the lack of knowledge is just silly.

Ilvl

[wicked lantern]

To piggyback off of this, did the KSM peeps get the 15s from PUGS or by pushing their own key. I feel key locked at 13s because I can’t get invited to 14/15s. Sat in queue for an hour yesterday and got declined repeatedly. IO is 1030ish, so it’s not terrible but not great

[patent osprey]

I've literally tanked entire 15 keys not using shield block just to prove that knowledge > than everything haha

[lofty widget]

i pugged with a spriest to ksm, got a team after that

[golden fern]

Btw, why Venthyr though?

[eager phoenix]

Im only in the 16-17 range currently and i feel warrior isn’t holding me back one bit. I do so many mistakes and my team does a lot of mistakes. We could work on pull size, interrupts and general knowledge about bosses/packs strat and pressing out buttons better. All independent of what class we rocking.

[patent osprey]

I'm a dps main in raid but I'm NF now :) trying all thr covs out. Cov for prot don't matter that much atm

I did all 20s as venthyr

[golden fern]

Yeah, I saw xD

[eager phoenix]

I also don’t measure tank balance based on 22+ keys. If my class can do 20 because others have done it I objectively know my choice in warrior isn’t wasted.

[patent osprey]

22s fking hurt

last boss of plaguefall for warrior is a nightmare especially on grevious

wiped to that a bunch today sadly

we don't do well against magic or disease dam

[golden fern]

Building your own key is probably the best choice, since the majority of the playerbase just looks at meta and declines people. You know how good you are, but they don't.

[ionic fern]

Have you heard about our lord and saviour Dwarf?

[eager phoenix]

💯

[ionic fern]

Being a Dwarf Kyrian is overkill in most situations but damn is it comfortable.

😂

[young glen]

It's the best

:>

[wicked lantern]

It’s a bummer my key this week is a 12 sanguine. I’m genuinely afraid of that place from early release woes in there. Think I’ve ran it 4 times total lol. Got my 13 done and haven’t been back.

[steel mist]

guys

so im new in tanking prot warrior and im coming from a guardian druid

its a new character so im still 188 ilvl but i feel so damn squishy on pull

is this normal

[ionic fern]

Are you keeping SB up? That's usually the main thing when people are feeling squishy.

[steel mist]

ahh mwahi i read your guide in icy veins thank you btw

umm well the thing is that i dont have rage when i go into pull which i think that makes it why im squishy

i think i should charge and shieldslam in order for me to SB straight away right

[thorny wing]

For Threat on pull i do: charge, shield block, spam little bit revenge for threat, then only revenge when its free and ignore pain if Blood Spattered is not up or demo shout on cd etc

as warrior u need to manage your cds, dont stack them all at once

and play with bolstering, too good for m+ 😄

[steel mist]

but charge gives like 20 rage and sb is 30

[thorny wing]

forgot thunderclap in that rotation, should have enough rage after that gcd

[sweet summit]

Pre cast ravager, or use avatar as youre charging to get the rage needed for sb 👌

[thorny wing]

Ye, that too ofc

[steel mist]

ohh thnks

[thorny wing]

Ravager should be on cd always on a pack

use a cast on cursor macro, so its easier to use

[steel mist]

also i think that having haste factors aswell in our survivability and im like 12 percent

[thorny wing]

what is your ilvl and which keys you run?

which lvl?

[steel mist]

188 still new

[thorny wing]

oh ok

[steel mist]

im still doing like +2 to +6

getting the feel of it

[thorny wing]

and big tip, manage your spell reflection

there is a spread sheet on this discord to help you which spells u can spell reflect if u dont know

can disable many boss mechanics and annoying spells

[steel mist]

ahh yes i saw that one

i memorised it

the only boss im having issues with it is the frist boss in halls

[thorny wing]

should not be a problem, what is the problem u have?

[steel mist]

SB for hit and SR for the the ground hit

am i right

when he does the crumbling spell on you

[thorny wing]

the slam is physical on my mind

[steel mist]

bec i read that the puddle is magical and can be reflected

[thorny wing]

ah ye, the puddle is magic dmg if u have to stand in it while he does the rotation thing, but tbh the boss should be in a good position when he does the thing

DBM/BigWigs is your friend here 😄

[steel mist]

i got the vem pack just incase

and mythic+ weakaura with the sound package

so i got 2 things screaming at me

[thorny wing]

that works too, if the rotation is like 3 seconds off -> move the boss slowly so people can rotate easy and avoid puddles

[patent zealot]

so is every prot warr going necrolord

[foggy quail]

will i regret going prot for m+?

[eager phoenix]

if your motivated and enjoy prot then sky is the limit.

[steel mist]

i dont know about that

i feel ancient aftershock is a lifesaver

[sweet summit]

lol no

[steel mist]

it will be nerfed

400 mastery is jsut too much

[sweet summit]

I think its fine

Banner by itself is fine

[patent zealot]

1200* mastery

[steel mist]

if this happens, it will be like way back in cata when warlock where buff bots to dps classes

dark intent

[sweet summit]

Banner isnt that OP

Atm

[lofty widget]

how does it work btw, do you drop a banner that you can leave and your teammates will still get the buff?

[wide pilot]

Played warrior quite a bit throughout all bfa and just getting back into after deciding it felt more fun than vengeance.
What guide would you say is more up to date wowhead or icey veins

I ran 17/18s on my vdh so I know the dungeons really well and aboutkiting/defensive usage.. looking for which one would be able to help me transfer skill sets more easily

[lofty widget]

icy veins

[wide pilot]

Is the buff to the leggo giving shield wall a 2nd charge on top of making ur group take 50% less dmg looking attractive or are we still gonna be mainly using the wall

[outer solstice]

besides the group effect it seems worse than the wall

unless you need 2 SW tight behind each other

but with externals being there I don't see any reason for that to happen

[jagged pier]

if we can equip 2 leggos it will be good with the wall otherwise its trash tbh

[outer solstice]

^

[wide pilot]

Ok thx

[manic kernel]

Guys, is there a chance that Warrior Prot will become something totally new with this rework on Maldraxxus?

[outer solstice]

nah

[outer solstice]

hmm double flat damage use trinkets for hc, what you guys thing?

have the wing from shriek and the vessel from sire 😛

[void stump]

Can someone link me some prot warrior M+ streamers?

[outer solstice]

check nomeratur, sense, Plka

love all 3

[void stump]

Thanks!

[outer solstice]

lol got a phial of caustic liquid 194 from my followers

that thing deals solid damage xD

[echo egret]

If you reach 2nd boss in Mists without getting pride, can you go back 1 room to get it ?

[bitter crest]

sense doesn't stream very often unfortunately, i like his calm style

[bitter crest]

The fog disappears when the second boss is down, so no.

[echo egret]

So if you want pride before 2nd boss, you basically need to pull an extra room at the start ? What classes can do that ?

[sweet summit]

Every single spec can i think

If youre talking about the right pack at the start of the maze

[astral crystal]

you kinda have to get on the little hill/bump overlooking the right room

at the very start

and hit the enemies there

normally that's left up to ranged tho

[echo egret]

okay I thought it was a hunter/druid exclusive

[wet socket]

hey i asked this in the fury channel but figured you guys might know a wee bit more (sorry if its a stupid question) @ anyone who has killed/progged mythic council, the spell reflect spreadsheet seems to say we can deflect the dancing fever. Does anyone know which specific part of it we can deflect? Is it just like 1 jump worth or does it apply to the end of the timer when it kills you. Starting council today & wanna see

[astral crystal]

hm, not sure

come to think of it i dont think i ever tried to reflect that lol

[wet socket]

hahaha no worries, yeah i usually check the spreadsheet before prog on a boss to see if theres anything useful thats reflectable & the dancing fever is listed but not really specified what it deflects. i'm on it tonight anyway so can always just try popping reflect on certain parts & see what happens. if i find out for sure i'll let yous know

ty for getting back to me

[jagged pier]

probs just reduces the damage

may stop the application

🤷🏼

havent tried sr for that mechanic tbh

[wet socket]

yeah i was thinking it either stops 1 jump worth of damage or kinda like darkvein where if it targets you while SR is up it just negates it, i'll try figure out tonight but it might just be the sheet is wrong & it isny reflectable at any stage

[outer solstice]

I think the debuff is global, so it probably deflects 1 tick of it

[opaque hazel]

So they buff legendaries and convents but not classes it self? All will have to swap gear depending on what they buff next?

[sweet kayak]

Well Necrolord be best for protection warrior m+next patch or should we just stick with our current stats?

[outer solstice]

I think it'll be weird

you loose a lot of AoE burst/control

if you go necrolord

over NF/kyrian

[jagged pier]

more likely to be best for raid not m+

[outer solstice]

but you can get soem insane boss DPS out of it

so probs for tyrannical necro > NF/Kyrian

but for fortiefied, NF and kyrian are just waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too strong

[sweet kayak]

Right, thanks guys ❤️

[outer solstice]

but

it will be viable

and not literal trash

[jagged pier]

its also to early to tell as it hasnt been tuned yet

[outer solstice]

yeah I suspect a nerf incoming as well

either to fleshcraft or the banner

maybe it's 2 random group members or they lower the mastery

if you can't control who benefits from the banner it looses a lot of it's value

[jagged pier]

its needs somthing otherwise pretty much mandatory if u raid

[outer solstice]

yep

[jagged pier]

i dunno ive liked have the choice

[outer solstice]

double necro prot

and go brrrrrrrr

[jagged pier]

dont really want to be forced into a cov

[outer solstice]

I mean,... I play NF

[jagged pier]

and re grind everything

[outer solstice]

because we have the option

I'm open to regrinding tbh

[jagged pier]

yer exactly

we have the option

i like having options

[outer solstice]

the problem is if they buff necro from 0 to hero...

others will ask for the same

but they said they try to slowly adjust things

[sweet kayak]

I don't mind switching necro, problem is that re-leveling all your followers will be boring 😛

[outer solstice]

I mean kyrian and NF or even ventyr don't get worse ... but if necro is just suddenly providing such an insane dmg boost,...

like an additional trinket for 2 DPS players they can stack...

oh well,... I'm a trinket now I guess shrug

pink haired plate gnome on a chain

[jagged pier]

like its the only issue i have with the banner is the same reason why the priests in my guild dont like PI

'i think i would benefit best with PI'

'can i get a PI?'

'PI would be best on me'

i dont need that in my life tbh

[languid heath]

Hey guys, which Venthyr soulbind would you recommend for raiding? Nadija seems pretty good and Draven maybe for prog?

[granite fossil]

Hi, I'm just asking more about Venthyr, is it OK for m+ tanking? Or it's really far behind compared to kyrian/NF and maybe Necro in next patch

[jagged pier]

nope its fine just dont press condemn in aoe

[median tulip]

I always use Draven for tanking because I use Nadija for Arms

[granite fossil]

OK thanks

[languid heath]

Alright, can you not use Nadija for both or would you have to reslot the conduits?

[median tulip]

You can reslot, but only so many times and it gets tedious

[languid heath]

Tbh I don’t tank high keys, but so far it’s been fine. If we don’t make the time it’s never a pact problem

[languid heath]

Oooof I see, that’s too bad. My main spot is as dps but one of the tanks sometimes can’t make it so I get to tank a fair bit too 🙂

[median tulip]

If you are Raid tanking Draven is absolutely fine

[unkempt fox]

I got ksm pugging only 3 weeks ago as prot venthyr so it's fine at that level

[spare cave]

Guys is general draven or korayn is better for prot warrior?

Which one is the tankiest?

[amber herald]

korayn has zero tanking utility

it's all damage

[jagged pier]

sounds better to me then

[amber herald]

actually idk

[spare cave]

Face your foes?

[amber herald]

korayn has tanking utility it just isn't used because if you want defensives you go niya

[spare cave]

oh i see

[amber herald]

So idk

korayn vs draven is not something I've seen brough up before

[spare cave]

Korayn has an abilit called hold the line which gives %15 phy damage red if you can stand still for 15 sec isnt this a huge deal?

5 sec sorry

[amber herald]

no because niya gives us a load of mastery and 12%hp on every ancient aftershock cast

It'll have some niche uses but idk probably ping one of the theorycrafters for that one

[spare cave]

abcient aftershock has 1.5 min cd..

[jagged pier]

do u stand still when tanking cause i dont

[amber herald]

1.15 with conduit which you always take

1m when it's higher ilvl

I'd be more looking at this for a korayn tanking build as it'll help with magic damage

we're pretty good at physical already

[lusty marsh]

I'd consider the 15% dr if it was magic instead of phys. But yeah, not a lot of stationary tanking.

[spare cave]

How about general dravens hold your ground?

Its not also worth it because you cant stand still for 4 secs?

[amber herald]

that one also persists for 6 seconds after moving

[spare cave]

yeah

[amber herald]

so much higher uptime with movement which is inevitable

[median tulip]

Easier to use that in raid than in M+

[amber herald]

korayns lower tier seems like a niche thing you'll be able to make use of if you're already NF

but not necessarily something you want to be NF for

[frail wyvern]

I use Nadija for raid tanking, draven is good if you play safer though

[candid quail]

i really hope necro doesnt bc bis for prot bc i love having my covenent be bis for arms and prot

[median tulip]

Tho I use Built for War for almost everything. 4% Strength is a lot

[amber herald]

Also draven's first tier talent isn't very good for us because we don't spend much time at 40%hp

honestly idk interesting question though

[north coral]

Dravens explosion on death so so annoying if you release too fast you aggro half the dungeon back to you

[amber herald]

multi-dollar company

[median tulip]

The explosion of death thing is hilarious in Torghast with massive HP buffs

[lusty marsh]

How much does it hit for?

Would have saved half an hour last night on Denny if It does 200k :p

[high folio]

so it looks like unbreakable will is gonna be pretty good. and if we get double leggos we combine it w the wall.

[vague jetty]

Reprisal is likely my pick unless they nerf it

[candid quail]

does unbreakable will work with the whole raid?

[vague jetty]

Party

[candid quail]

dam

[median tulip]

It hits for your Max HP, divide among nearby targets. If you have a lot of the HP buffs in Torghast, it can do an awful lot of damage

[candid quail]

so its not like a raid damage counter

[torn gulch]

it's a m+ lego

first

[median tulip]

Reprisal is silly broken. If it does go live then it'll get nerfed PDQ

[torn gulch]

might find raid uses

[ancient plaza]

I havent seen much about the seismic reverb change, seems like a pretty big buff for prot in m+?

[median tulip]

It's nice but the PTR version of Reprisal is better

and it's not even close

[ancient plaza]

Yeah that SB uptime

[median tulip]

because Reprisal is disgustingly overtuned

[ancient plaza]

I imagine it doesnt make it to live

[median tulip]

Not even that; the free Revenge procs are a lot of DPS

[candid quail]

might make best served cold a lil more viable

[high folio]

oh interesting. yeah i just saw the changes to reprisal, thats kinda gross. double time effectively gives you two more SB charges.

[wanton condor]

reprisal looks both hilariously overtuned and incredibly awkward to play

[high folio]

also agreed, leap way and charge back in to get SB back and some rage

[median tulip]

If it makes it to live I intend to make it work

effectively the Reprisal legendary as it is on the PTR makes Charge generate the equivalent of 90 Rage

(that's not a typo)

[candid quail]

idk it seems not too awkward, just charge and leap for both charges in for m+ and u can just walk away when ur off tank has him in raid

[median tulip]

20 Base, 20 extra, Free Shield Block and Free Revenge

[high folio]

i still think Unbreakable is gonna be really nice for M+ tho if that sticks, helps fix one of prots biggest issues in high keys

[jagged pier]

UW is only good when u pair it with the wall otherwise its trash

[high folio]

well yeah thats what id do

[jagged pier]

2 leggos arent even comfirmed

[median tulip]

Looked at another way the Reprisal Legendary is worth 350 Rage per Minute

[high folio]

speculation ofcourse

[median tulip]

Which is disgusting

[high folio]

holy shit

[ancient plaza]

Does reprisal possibly overtake the wall for raid?

[jagged pier]

depend on fight and mechanics etc

[median tulip]

I'd still run The Wall and Bolster for most Raid encounters TBH

[jagged pier]

in a heavy mage damage fight probs not

in like full melee where u can run away to charge

probably

[median tulip]

But Reprisal will definitely eclipse Thunderlord for M+ and other multi-target uses

[high folio]

^

[median tulip]

Again: IF it goes live as it currently is on the PTR

I still don't believe Bliz is quite so dumb as to push it to live

[high folio]

theyll prob nerf the piss out of the damage, rage gen, or both

[wanton condor]

it's not really a good raid leggo

as you have to move around for it to proc

[median tulip]

Not for the majority of encounters, no. I'd rock the shit out of it on Sun King though

Anyway, the underlying thing is this: DO NOT go spending your Soul Ash on it until it actually goes live

[wanton condor]

I'm excited for the seismic reverb buff

[uneven mason]

Its nice, but they're being stingy with not going a full 100%

If you're gonna have a DPS lego, make it do DPS

[median tulip]

I don't think it matches up with Reprisal as is, but it's actually a reasonable buff

LOL @ it still getting a buff to Whirlwind though. Like any Prot Warrior even has that on their bars.

[devout pike]

whirlwind lol ECX DEE

[final axle]

I dont think reprisal will be a raid lego, why would you need the extra shield block uptime, when you get enough rage plus shieldwall uptime with the wall

[uneven mason]

It can be used by arms and fury as well lol?

not htat its any good for them either.

[tardy parcel]

I'm personally just a bit grumpy because I was planning to craft Signet to not be a potato whenever I swap to DPS but they just had to make a completely bonkers update to Reprisal... so now I feel obligated to wait til it goes live to see if I should craft it instead lol

[ocean yoke]

big brain move is using reprisal for the revenge procs

[final axle]

That might end up being a negligible dps gain

Potentially even loss. In raid that is

[ocean yoke]

big smooth brain move then

[median tulip]

The effects are different depending on what spec is using it

[fallen rose]

do you guys think that with the new lego changes for prot condemn might become abit better as we will not need to spend as much rage on SB

[median tulip]

If Reprisal goes live as it, then it certainly eases the Rage budget

IF

[final axle]

Yea it'll be a bit better

[fallen rose]

ye bit IF as its fucking OP atm

[median tulip]

Yeah

Still I can make Rank 4 boots so I'm quids in if it does xD

[uneven mason]

Warriors are in such a sad state that we finally get a lego that is close to on par with what other classes have and we're like "Oh snap, its so OP probably will be nerfed"

[fallen rose]

no its OP even compared to other tanks

can EZ have 100% up time on SB

[median tulip]

It equates to up to 350 Rage per minute; it's OP

[uneven mason]

ok, what are we doing with that rage at this point tho? Pumping more damage? We're in drastic need of more damage

when I've gotta tell my co tank to cool his jets

[median tulip]

Well not all of that is actual Rage, some is just an accounting of the equivalent cost of the freebies

[uneven mason]

Right

its savings

so not raw rage

like, we can't exactly turn the free rage from Revenge! into an IP

[median tulip]

But for all intents and purposes it might as well be

[uneven mason]

ehh no

its not quite equal

can't convert saved rage into raw rage

[final axle]

Whats your co tank, i never have that problem with aggro and cotank is vdh

[uneven mason]

it helps, but it is different

Paladin

Paladin is chonkers for ST

[final axle]

Huh. Interesting. I'm venthyr tho so typically I'm the one that is in jeopardy of pally aggro in the first 20%

[uneven mason]

but like, I don't thikn even with how strong Reprisal is, it compares to Fiery or Defilment

Yeah, I miss Venthyr

don't get me wrong

[final axle]

Pulling aggro*

[uneven mason]

if I go pumpers

I can spike ahead of him

but just passively paladins produce a ton more aggro outside of CDs

[stark sage]

im not prot TC, but 100% uptime on block without a significant opportunity cost is pretty OP

damage needs tuning regardless

[uneven mason]

True, but we're not really suffering from blockable hits

what it does is afford us the opportunity to pump into IP more often

[stark sage]

its just a room for exploitation

[uneven mason]

which is going to be the strong value

[stark sage]

prot under CDs is almost invincible

[uneven mason]

Having 100% uptime on strong DR isn't exploitation, its finally being put on par with VDH Monk and bear?

[stark sage]

maybe, but i feel like block is way better than their defensives

[uneven mason]

you're not wrong

[stark sage]

like block is balanced around not having 100% uptime

[uneven mason]

then again, it requires opportunity cost to provide that 100% uptime

we have to burn our mobility to reach it

[stark sage]

yeah some, and in a typical raid setting you wont ever need that 100%

[uneven mason]

right

[fallen rose]

but you dont need mobility when you are invisible

[uneven mason]

the only boss that 100% is required is TBH the only boss that we wouldn't dare use reprisal

[fallen rose]

for M+ anyway

[uneven mason]

Sludgefist

[sick sentinel]

check general chat

[stark sage]

but whenever we approach 100% uptime on block, solo tanking bosses becomes a potential cheese strat

[uneven mason]

mmm

Aggramar

[fallen rose]

ye i solo tank hecutus on huntsmaster and don't move him to reduce raid damage so if we have SB up 100% then is even easier

[uneven mason]

I feel like reprisal is a "We're sorry" for nerfing AM

[stark sage]

its not a big deal right now ,since this content tier is basically over
but imagine if next tier WF uses solo prot to cheese a boss and we get kneejerked again

[spice fox]

Woo got lucky tonight

[uneven mason]

yeah

[median tulip]

grats

[blazing condor]

feels like no matter what order i do the last 3 in SoA people always tell me its the wrong order. So what order do people do nowdays?

[spice fox]

tyty

[uneven mason]

Like reading, left to right

[median tulip]

I do L, R, M

[fallen rose]

i like right to left so dont get spears

[blazing condor]

:T

[stark sage]

because i agree, in practical use, reprisal doesnt seem broken
but it does potentially open up cheese which is almost always bad once blizz sniffs it out

[median tulip]

Hehehe

[final axle]

Let me solo tank this boss with a lego that requires me to move him around a bunch

That will please my raid

[median tulip]

I like Tanks that do this when I play Arms

[patent osprey]

middle left right :)

safest

[blazing condor]

yeah thats what i did

[stark sage]

yeah that's another point, the potential exploit is just cancer to play as well

[blazing condor]

im gonna take it from you then 😄

[median tulip]

I love how everyone has their own prefered order on those 3 😆

[uneven mason]

I mean, they already use the scaling damage per auto attack

[median tulip]

People can already solo Tank Shriekwing for fun

[uneven mason]

to avoid cheese

since if HD didn't have that you know warriors would be solo tanking him

[fallen rose]

they are all simple to tank it really depnds on the group if they are good at donging then LMR is easy but if bad at dodging L last is best

[final axle]

But like you're gonna solo tank hecutus with reprisal over shield wall?

[blazing condor]

real men solo tank huntsman and just tank the soul buff

[stark sage]

solo tanking easy bosses or farm content is w/e, its only fucked if it happens on wf
because you get all the casual tryhard gamer dads trying to replicate the strat

[wanton condor]

huntsman you could actually run reprisal on

[patent osprey]

real men kite in m+

[blazing condor]

real men kite in m+ because those who didnt arent alive anymore

[wanton condor]

you just need to coordinate where the bear is re: hunts

[fallen rose]

yo could EZ solo hecutus with reprisal as he stops to cast you run and charge for cast

[uneven mason]

bad at dodging, let me tell you, I had a PF lastnight and the PUG Healer I picked up 1300 .io askes as soon as he joins "You guys better not be shit"

Literally stands in the plague wave on first boss and dies - twice
Leaves group

Apperntly we shouldn't be shit so we could carry him ><

[fallen rose]

lol happens all the time

[blazing condor]

he's the blightest but not the brightest

[median tulip]

Bad healers getting carried is a problem

[uneven mason]

we almost killed the boss with no healer too ><

[ocean yoke]

i dont think ive ever had someone who wasnt shit say something like that

[uneven mason]

yeah I shoulda taken it as a red flag

[median tulip]

Yep

[uneven mason]

but i was in a hurry to head to bed

[fallen rose]

you can carry a Bad DPS EZ but bad tank and healers kill keys

[median tulip]

The thing is, most DPS obsess over the yellow numbers, but the actual key to being a really good DPS is literally everything else that DPS have to do

[uneven mason]

So I like how reprisal looks, but the DRW lego for BDK, thats got me thinking of swapping.

[median tulip]

Dodging mechanics, interupting effects, using their dispels/personals/whatever

I'd gladly take a DPS that parsed 5% lower but knew how to use all of their toolkit

[fallen rose]

ye the hardest part of DPSing is not actually doing DPS but doing mechanics

[median tulip]

SPriests that don't dispel being my personal pet hate

[lusty marsh]

And remembering they have cooldowns.

[ocean yoke]

and they can be used without a boss being present

[lusty marsh]

Like the mage that holds hero for final boss 30 minutes into the run.

[median tulip]

hero?

Oh Lust

dirty alliance scum xD

[lusty marsh]

Time warp I think is their ability. I can't remember

I have never played a lust class.

[wanton condor]

on my shammy I always ask at the start of the run where we want lust, as different tanks have different opinoins

[uneven mason]

I run ERT and track all stuns/interrupt/knockbacks etc

[wanton condor]

like on PF some like 1/2/4, some like 1/pull before 3rd, etc

[uneven mason]

so when I see the MW monk hasn't used leg sweep, once, while complaining that I'm getting chunked to casts

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

[median tulip]

I mostly run in a guild M+ team, so we all know each others preferences by now

[lusty marsh]

Unfortunately I do the same and the preference is that the dps just dps

[uneven mason]

yeha normally I'm in a guild group, lastnight was no healers on tho

I guess I run them ragged

[lusty marsh]

But as a side note from tanking this expac. I learned I was a horrible dps in bfa

[uneven mason]

like I was "Hey who wants to hit some keys" and they all disappeared

cuz I don't go slow

[lusty marsh]

I was a lock who barely kicked and never used shadowfury

[uneven mason]

locks had a interrupt in BFA?

[lusty marsh]

Or walled

Felhunter

[median tulip]

The Felpuppy did

[ocean yoke]

tanking has made me so much better at playing my dps alts

[lusty marsh]

^

[median tulip]

Playing my Resto Shaman made me better at tanking

[lusty marsh]

Shiiiit

Guess I go healer next expac

[ocean yoke]

just knowing the times when it is rough to throw out cc etc helps

[uneven mason]

I've played Warrior/Shm/Rog since vanilla

kind've hunter

so I get to see all the facets

[lusty marsh]

I've only really played lock war

[uneven mason]

it really does open your eyes to "Oh"

"thats why they're like this"

[lusty marsh]

And only prot this expac

[median tulip]

I'd play hunter, but the most fun spec is SV and it never gets invites

[uneven mason]

"why do healers die to standing in crap" - because they're watching other peoples health bars

[uneven mason]

That spec should not exist

[ocean yoke]

its no coincidence i quit wow when they reworked survival, sv hunter was my original main during mop

[uneven mason]

It doesn't get invites

because its an aberration of nature

[lusty marsh]

If survival hunter shouldn't exist, what hope is there for my battle dresser warrior healer dream.

[wanton condor]

SV being polearms instead of dual axes is just such a wack decision

[lusty marsh]

Polearms being agi weapons is also wack

[vast ridge]

Make sv a tank spec tbh. Need to get rid of all these 1 role classes

[ocean yoke]

tfw they rework survival instead of making bm melee like rexxar instead

[median tulip]

The BM hunters would all cry if they made BM melee. They'd have to actually pay attention a bit in order to play their class

[ocean yoke]

but thats so harddd

[median tulip]

But I could totally get behing BM-melee, MM-ranged, SV-tank. But Hunters are the most popular class and the crying would be heard from orbit

[uneven mason]

Literally already 2 dw agi classes.

[uneven mason]

" wait I can't have a simple rotation and ignore mechanics? WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA"

[median tulip]

Mind you Rogue should have a Ranged spec too

[amber herald]

you can already play BM in melee if you want to

[uneven mason]

no more deadzone

[amber herald]

none of their abilities prevent them from moving

[wanton condor]

yes, but the ultimate survival hunter uses DW axes

let me play rexxar

[median tulip]

Which makes it all the more annoying when they fuck up mechanics

[amber herald]

BM is a noob spec gotta expect noobiness

[wanton condor]

I'm fine with there being 1 super newb ranged spec

[amber herald]

I quite like BM it's fun in a stupid way

[wanton condor]

but yeah, if it was meleee as rexxar and survival was guns/traps/bombs ranged I think it would be better

[median tulip]

I'm not sure which the hardest ranged spec is. Elemental maybe?

[wanton condor]

ele can be made into the hardest but you shouldn't use that talent combo IMO

very little gain and you give up a defensive

[median tulip]

Icefury/EB?

[wanton condor]

yeah

[median tulip]

Yeah

[wanton condor]

and if you have higher mastery due to the raid gear being all mastery it's a wash

[median tulip]

It's a massive amount of GCD crowding. I never take both IF and EB

[wanton condor]

I do a bunch of apl optimization for it and I can't get the sim to use all the icefury charges

it's too busy for too little gain

[median tulip]

I don't like high Mastery and IF; FrS doesn't benefit

[wanton condor]

and the ptr changes further nerf mastery

[median tulip]

You think?

[wanton condor]

but yeah, if you're not parse chasing or really, really need the between burst mobility there's little value in IF right now

[chilly brook]

Imo affliction

But only because it gets dumb maintaining your dots on more than like 3 targets

[midnight stone]

timers on timers on timers

[chilly brook]

I also just don't play ranged

📈

[final axle]

Used to be less annoying with addons but they nerfed that

And im trash at this game. I can't have taunt be a mouseover macro because I'm too likely to miss click and taunt the wrong this

[modern brook]

Hardest range is fire mage tbh

You have to read a whole paragraph

[chilly brook]

:kekw

I mean the only thing that's hard about fire is comboost

Aoe you just spam cast flamestrike

[snow harbor]

Fire mage rotation is easy. Having low enough ping for it is the hard part lol. And knowing when to use combust so you don't succumb to mechanics

[uneven mason]

SL fire plays like Legion fury

"line the stars up and go HAM"

once combust is rolling very few mechanics can stop it due to the fact all you're doing is spamming instant casts for almost its entire duration

then pressing a spell that can be cast while moving

[snow harbor]

Don't want to get knocked off rune of power

[uneven mason]

true

[snow harbor]

40% dps loss lol

[uneven mason]

I mean

the space of RoP is massive

[ornate sky]

ye its larger than a healing rain

[uneven mason]

its like 8 with a padding of 1 yrd on either side so you can dodge most mechanics in that space.

if you can't do mechanics in a diameter of 16

that is what I call truely flipperhands

like monk who rolls off the platform every pull on Sire

[chilly brook]

[uneven mason]

"What happened" - "I chi torpedoed to dodge Massacre and went off the edge"

literally as we were about to push phase 3

[sweet summit]

Not playing tigers lust

[median tulip]

Ho hum, shall we read through the wowhead starter guide to Protection?

[chilly brook]

Hey, look, chi torpedo is good on some fights like Xymox

[strong forum]

either icyveins or wowhead

[median tulip]

wowhead just posted a thing about their new starter guides

[strong forum]

ye looks good

[median tulip]

I think my current setup has one talent the same as their recommended spec

GG

[strong forum]

its the talent setup for raiding

as it says

keep that in mind

[median tulip]

Is it? It's got Crackling Thunder talented. That's purely an M+ talent

[sweet summit]

no?

[median tulip]

yes?

Bosses are immune to the slow anyway and the radius increase is irrelevant in single target

[sweet summit]

u can make the same argument for any of the talents on that row

[median tulip]

Always Bounding Stride in Raid

[uneven mason]

Bounding Stride for more reliable mobility in raids yes.

Outside of Sunking CT is more or less useless in CN.

[median tulip]

Even a liability on Altimor

Sun King is very much a special case.

[shadow pike]

dang. I am leveling as prot and just having a hell of a good time. Are they still just the worst tank?

[median tulip]

No

[shadow pike]

still basically trying to set myself up for 9.1

[median tulip]

There is a difference between community perception and reality

[mental scarab]

We laugh in shield block and cry with no shield block

👍🏻

[shadow pike]

my guild only has DH/Monk/Paladin tanks so its hard for me to get a good read

[uneven mason]

We're more durable than all 3 of those in raid

people look at R.io and go "Wow warrior must be shit"
Nope, just can't spam aggro abilities from 500 feet away

WTB "Elysian Decree no longer produces aggro"

watch VDH fall

[sick sentinel]

You have Ancient Aftershock and Heroic Throw, though. That's basically the same thing.

[uneven mason]

Ancient AFtershock is a little 5 foot puddle that comes out of our feet

Elysian Decree is a 16 foot 40 yard targeting reticle that hits just as hard and is up twice as often

[merry ocean]

Lower CD on Ancient Aftershock 🙏

[uneven mason]

Like

I'd rather if thye just removed aggro from Decree when the tank is more than 5 yards away

[visual drift]

What is the best and easiest to handle addon for mists?

[uneven mason]

Also heroic throw, yeah it generates aggro on 1 target (I'm assuming you're comparing to throw glaive which is a cleave abiliyt)

[astral crystal]

what do you mean?

[devout pike]

i just think thunder clap should give way more aggro

would help us in m+ compete with dh

[uneven mason]

erm

[visual drift]

to solve the maze for the second boss

[astral crystal]

im a loyal proponent of thunderclap leaving a dot pool of crackling thunder or something

[devout pike]

and help us not lose aggro on every fucking add except the one we targeting

[uneven mason]

The only thing that would help us compete with DH in M+ is if we could thunder clap from 40 yards out

[astral crystal]

that deals a little aoe ticking dmg

[uneven mason]

🧠

[astral crystal]

what ikarikaze said

[ornate sky]

https://wago.io/hVLym_eLv/64

[uneven mason]

are people that bad at comparison/memory tests?

[visual drift]

my brain is 100% on tanking so i can't riddle and tank :/

[uneven mason]

if my group proves incapable

I just drag the shit around

and they can live with it.

[astral crystal]

ya usually that's the healer's job

[lusty marsh]

Don't worry, soon we will be revenge machines with shieldblock for days

[devout pike]

the dream

[uneven mason]

We can face tank during CDs longe nough to have aggro for a solid kite

its just we can't do that every 30 seconds on unlimited mobs

while taking zero damage

because we're doing it from 40 yards out

[craggy pilot]

anyone know an addon or WA that can help say what is beneficial to Spell Relfect in M+?

[sick sentinel]

So you are telling us that a VDHs can just use ED and run away until the pack is dead?

[lusty marsh]

You'll have to just go over the list and decide what you want to reflect on the fly.

Unless there is something critical like ToP reaping scythe on last boss

[ionic fern]

There's a WA in F.A.Q protection section

[lusty marsh]

Doesn't that WA just go off on any reflectable?

[ionic fern]

Yeah.

[craggy pilot]

so it somehow sorts out stuff that is not reflectable?

[ionic fern]

Yes.

[craggy pilot]

uh cool, will try it out

thx

[lusty marsh]

It likely just has a big list of spell id's it checks against.

[ornate sky]

just make deep wounds generate lots of agro

[lusty marsh]

Speaking of reflect I'm still upset that eternal skirmish and blazing barrier are reflectable.

[uneven mason]

Not always, but they can also enter into meta every minute as well, with Fiery Brand reduction when needed.
But yeah Decree hits hard as hell.

[craggy pilot]

thorns is also reflectable

and Shadowcore Oil

[uneven mason]

at 53 I was shocked early Xpac

on my VDH, that Decree was hitting for 9k alredy

it stuck with me

hits way harder at 60

[strong forum]

ED does like 40% more dmg than spear

[uneven mason]

its gross

and its a burst

[lusty marsh]

Twice as often

[uneven mason]

this

If spear was a 16 foot area

and had a 30s CD

that would be Decree

[merry ocean]

Decree has a minute cooldown or?

[uneven mason]

with a lego that reduces its CD

[merry ocean]

oof

[strong forum]

well you dont play that lego

[uneven mason]

yeah I know, brand

[strong forum]

[lusty marsh]

16 foot area and roots to starting position not the edge.

[uneven mason]

because brand

is also another "short CD damage reduction + DoT"

that is usable when you're in bubblefunk

imagine if we had 2 charges of shield wall, and TW reduces both CDs simultaneously

[sick sentinel]

apples and oranges, dude 🙂
But as long as very high keys come down to "can the tank survive the packs while we blow them up"
it will probably always come down to "who can do burst aggro and run away" 🙂

[uneven mason]

I mean, not too long in the past Prot was just so brick that kiting wasn't needed.

[sick sentinel]

maybe aggro should decay, when a mob cant reach its target

[uneven mason]

like, within 3 seconds

sounds good

Or the everquest solution

"You will not evade me"

Make it so the beefy mofos in the dungeons can summon you

[outer solstice]

or make them denathrius you

[uneven mason]

Or that

[sick sentinel]

or teleport like Sire 🙂

[uneven mason]

his teleport pisses me off

"What direction will he land today!

[sick sentinel]

always behind you!

[uneven mason]

Nope

[outer solstice]

if in dbout behind you 😛

[sick sentinel]

😛

[outer solstice]

but I at least know how he teleports start of P2

[uneven mason]

yes

thats the only one I can reliably predict

[outer solstice]

welp

it's ez

[uneven mason]

so I just taunt slam and leap to where the 2 adds spawn

[outer solstice]

he always looks to the middle

[uneven mason]

mm

[outer solstice]

I slam revenge taunt leap...

[uneven mason]

yeah something like that

[outer solstice]

but now I have to IP more....

[uneven mason]

IDK which is more annoying Denathrius teleport

or the sword just being untauntable 50% of the time

[outer solstice]

raidlead wants me to parse heal logs 🙂 and so it will be done!

[uneven mason]

my paladin cotank screaming "I HAVE 8 STACKS HELP!"

"I'll taunt soon as the thing is targetable again"

[outer solstice]

just taunt before sword goes away shrug

[sick sentinel]

dancing blades goes brrrr

[uneven mason]

I Mean

he's a paladin

I've been like "Literally bubble yourself when I take sire?"

has 3 ways to wipe the bleed of

I'ma just let him take the sword 100% of the time, screwit

OH speaking of sire. Anyone know if the transition to Phase 3 clears the puddles left by the sword?

[outer solstice]

I think it does not

we just had like 2 puddles left

but migth be someone messed up massacre

[uneven mason]

ok

[lavish oracle]

Does challenging shout give the taunt threat multiplier?

[strong forum]

i dont think so tbh

[lavish oracle]

Seems like it should but I shouldn't've expected blizz to be consistent I suppose

[strange mist]

Hey guys, How much Haste shoud I have as prot? 🙂

[astral crystal]

all of it

[uneven mason]

CS has the 400% Mod

[uneven mason]

However much your gear gives you

[lavish oracle]

If you have the choice between 2 pieces of the same ilvl, pick the one with haste, likewise, haste rings and are probably worth some extra ilvl

I couldn't give you an exact number

[uneven mason]

depending what your goal is

If you're looking to push DPS, then mastery is your bff

But there isn't a "set" number for haste

just as much ilvl as you can get

[chilly brook]

Not anymore

Mastery is like omegabad for dps

Sims way overvalued it because we had arms mastery in the sims for some reason

[uneven mason]

wat

I feel lied too (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

not that I cared

or ever stacked any specific stat besides ilvl

[wanton condor]

wait, in the current simc build?!

[uneven mason]

RIP Necrolord dreams

[ionic fern]

No, it was fixed a while back.

[chilly brook]

@uneven mason someone did lol

I distinctly remember someone stacking haste mast

[uneven mason]

stacking any stat

[wanton condor]

I think mastery is still better than crit

[uneven mason]

is just hurf

[wanton condor]

just doing super basic calcs

[chilly brook]

But crit is for the big pumps

[chilly brook]

Nope

[uneven mason]

Crit is stronk

[chilly brook]

Crit is like my best secondary iirc

Vers and mast are like 0.69

[cinder storm]

I'm stacking haste verse but not by choice 😦

[uneven mason]

know what I'm looking forward too - being prot in TBC Classic and needing to remove gear during T6 progression so I can be hit enough to generate rage.

[mighty valley]

pretty good thing to accidentally stack into!

[wanton condor]

the apl is not optimizing damage, I did some monkeying with it the other day because I thought it was undervaluing haste and got that fixed, but stat weights unless your substats are balanced doesn't say much (and even then they say nothing)

[mighty valley]

my best TBC raiding memory was me gearing nature resist for hydross, cotank gearing frost resist... then the frost tank quit the game, we recruited someone who already had a nature set, so I had to put together the frost set too

[wanton condor]

bloodytools put crit as the strongest by far so I trust that, just want to do some personal digging to figure out the whys, as mastery's conversion to damage is actually really good

[ionic fern]

?

[wanton condor]

the current APL does a bunch of defensives like shield block

[chilly brook]

Shield block

[strong forum]

SB increases SS dmg by 30%

[chilly brook]

Helps

Your damage

[wanton condor]

it doesn't!

[chilly brook]

It does.....

[ionic fern]

It does SB and IP to somewhat simulate real life situations.

[wanton condor]

Right, it's good for tanking sims

but it's not optimizing dps

[ionic fern]

...

[chilly brook]

Again shield block helps your damage

[wanton condor]

I'm not saying the apl is bad for what it does!

[chilly brook]

[wanton condor]

let me find the old sims from when I killed it

[ionic fern]

I mean..sure..simulate damage and remove IP/SB and spam Revenge. 🤷

[wanton condor]

yes, that was my point

I'm not advocating changing the apl

this was entirely within the context of max dps

[chilly brook]

Youd still want to press shield block for slam

Cuz shield slam still does bonkers damage

[uneven mason]

We had a bear tank who insisted on tanking, and then a warrior that we made the frost set for, the guild split and they both left the night before reset (The bear was an asshat, and the warrior was pissed I didn't give his wife a bow on her new hunter)

The guild rallied and we crafted 2 new sets within like, hours before raid, so I took over tanking (my preference anyway) + we dragged a main swapped warrior alt through T4 raids to gear him up enough to tank the rest of the raid that morning. Got our first Fathom Lord and Tidewalker kills that night (amazing how not having a manasponge tank made fights easier)

[chilly brook]

There must be a lot of mana sponge prot bois on live

I've gotten some really interesting comments regarding why I'm not accepted to groups

[mighty valley]

GOD druid tanks back then... we had one who kept trying to make bear tanking work all through vanilla, so when they crept up into just viable in TBC they were so smug, even if our healers hated healing them

[chilly brook]

They were viable in vanilla tho

Forget the guys name

But huge classic tank