And the positional requirement isn't that bad
#protection
mighty valley
I've seen people like the skulker's wing for single target if you can get used to the weird movement, haven't had one myself
clever bronze
Been using it for Fury since it's simmed the best.
But it's a bit... tricky with positional fights like Sludgefist.
I'm sure I've freaked-out my chain partners.
mighty valley
anima still good, you can be careful to stand in the buff on the pull and then it fades when you're kiting anyway
and in most raids you can happily just stand in it
clever bronze
Except for when it procs on Charge 
And you're still busy moving the boss to its proper position
clever bronze
No, it's not a huge deal, but it makes me feel like 
mighty valley
Most of the defensive trinkets that aren't Scale are pretty underwhelming tbh, so you can really just sim for damage
clever bronze
Which one is Scale?
mighty valley
Best M+ trinket by far
clever bronze
14k absorb on a 2m CD ain't bad.
mighty valley
It's a big health buffer and threat gen for the pull and you can press it off the GDC, feels great
clever bronze
I often have issues with the pull in M+, tbh.
Takes a few GCDs to build threat, or you spend rage on CDs like Revenge. Not great when your group wants to press their spells as you hit the pack, rather than wait for even the first Thunderclap.
amber herald
pull with ravager
mighty valley
Yeah, ravager as you charge, and try and get a revenge asap, it's like double the damage of clap
clever bronze
I try to, actually. I don't always remember to, but it does help, ye.
Sadly, that's not every pull.
mossy sluice
its gonna be most pulls, 45s cd
clever bronze
Yeah.
solemn magnet
What's wrong with revenging on the pull??
clever bronze
20 rage isn't bad but only when you have most of your CDs.
mossy sluice
if youre rage starved
amber herald
can also heroic leap into the pack for better threat
amber herald
true although in dungeons you're gonna have rage pooled from the previous pack often
so it's not always necessay to charge in
clever bronze
So most tanking trinkets are basically worthless, yeah?
amber herald
Yeah
mossy sluice
vintage and scale are pretty good
solemn magnet
The Stam ones yeab
mossy sluice
spikes pretty good
clever bronze
These are my top results for DPS
solemn magnet
Spike is okay
clever bronze
So if it's not that far behind Memory, I'd like some defensive utility.
solemn magnet
Spike will give more healing than dmg
clever bronze
Sounds good to me.
solemn magnet
I ran memory and spike for a bit as my only option.
coarse kestrel
seems like for me its about 7-8% of my healing
clever bronze
I assume IP is counted as healing, or we talking strictly Indomitable?
coarse kestrel
ip counted
clever bronze
That doesn't sound pathetic to me, but I don't particularly know anything. /shrug
Something I neglected to mention.
I'm stuck working with this thanks to World of Itemlevel Craft
https://i.imgur.com/HgQ8BJt.png
That may or may not raise the value of the Haste trinkets.
mossy sluice
thats pretty cringe
clever bronze
thats pretty cringe
Welcome to my life.
I was stuck with Destiny Driver in Legion for 85% of the expansion.
I mean, I did also get Stride and Stratagem, but tanking leggos... pretty cringe.
coarse kestrel
i am also at 210 11% haste. kinda sucks, but with fray its fine
clever bronze
I thought Ravager was more valuable.
Or is that just one of those suboptimal QOL choices?
coarse kestrel
for mythic+ ravager is, but for raid its fray
mossy sluice
nah
clever bronze
<sigh> I swear to the gods...
mossy sluice
only for dungeons
clever bronze
While I'm at it, I guess I might as well ask for y'all to check my work on my talent notes.
https://i.imgur.com/06z3wRU.png
mossy sluice
prob switch am for bolster and double time for storm bolt if youre doing dungeons
coarse kestrel
I'd take bolster over AM
timber lagoon
Yeah bolster and bolt is the way
clever bronze
That's why AM is noted as +Damage, while Bolster is noted as Defense, M+
Also... You know... The Wall in raiding.
wanton condor
I'm running spike/sunking which is nice for pushing
Would probably trade the spike for scale if I had one
timber lagoon
With the rage gen conduit for bolster you can slam revenge with bolster up
clever bronze
Side note, but I wish they'd give Shield Slam the Mind Blast treatment. Procs give it an extra charge (increasing the maximum), so it doesn't interrupt the current recharge.
coarse kestrel
but in all seriousness everyone I've talked to has said devastator is best
clever bronze
I.e. if you get a reset on 2s left on SS, you get two Shield Slams, not one.
wanton condor
Devastate feels godawful; can't make me drop Devastator
clever bronze
With the rage gen conduit for bolster you can slam revenge with bolster up
I thought that one was a weaker conduit. I thought you'd pick your Potencies.
mossy sluice
potencies for prot are giga garbage
clever bronze
Then maybe the guides are just prioritizing DPS and not giving you the defensive option?
mossy sluice
covenant ability one is ok for everything but venthyr
clever bronze
covenant ability one is ok for everything but venthyr
I am not Venthyr, so we're good.
I'm Kyrian, specifically.
wanton condor
Even with Kyrian spear conduit is nice but after that it's just like Show of Force
Which is probably less dps than bolster rage boosts
timber lagoon
Exactly
clever bronze
Pelagos is our best Soulbind, and I don't feel like changing conduits all the damn time. Would something like... this work?
https://i.imgur.com/PsqAJ3L.png
Changing to Brutal Vitality when tanking.
And changing to the Last Stand one when tanking too, ofc.
I mainly raid as DPS, but I mainly do dungeons as tank.
I've been using Kleia for tanking since I give priority to my DPS spec, but if the guides are wrong and Show of Force is lowkey garbage compared to the +rage on Last Stand with Bolster, then I guess that means I can use Pelagos.
clever bronze
While I'm at it, I guess I might as well ask for y'all to check my work on my ta...
I did publish this addon I made, btw. Useful if you're an altoholic or something. It does tend to be bugged on start up, you have to open and close your talent pane once or twice to get it to properly anchor to the talent frame.
https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/talentnotes
Or if you're like me and you don't like creating 30 talent combinations and can't be bothered to remember the constant iteration on what talents are best.
old monolith
Is Kleia a good pick this week?
clever bronze
I'm making my tree compatible with my DPS spec, so I'm not gonna have all of those things in the same place.
I take it that Phial of Patience is the value here?
clever bronze
I don't wanna give up Brutal Vitality, tho. Hm.
mossy sluice
it's fine if youre gonna dual spec or if you want to move the rally conduit
clever bronze
The way I see it, Brutal isn't very useful as a DPS, and I mainly DPS with my raid, so Presence has more value there.
So I take Presence in the last path when I DPS, and take Brutal when I tank. That's the idea I'm going for.
modern brook
BV sucks tho
clever bronze
I thought it was one of the better ones.
modern brook
lavish oracle
UF, and Stalwart are better picks than brutal vit
clever bronze
I'm not making any DPS sacrifices, so my two potencies are staying as is. What would you recommend changing from this?
https://i.imgur.com/cA8GGzp.png
mossy sluice
if enough people report you i dont think theres any counterplay
modern brook
just use kleia tbh
lavish oracle
Yeah, just swap unnerving focus instead of brutal vit and that looks fine to me
last mason
In the one with the glaives, my team lets@horde Druid literally@oneshot all 3
lavish oracle
Oh, I see, you have 3 endurance
last mason
I spam gg
modern brook
problem solved
coarse kestrel
not sure the dps sacrifice is a real sacrifice tbh
modern brook
clever bronze
Oh, I see, you have 3 endurance
I'm not putting prot-specific endurances in the slots that my DPS specs use, yeah.
mossy sluice
you just run the finesse at the bottom instead of bv
the rc conduit is the best conduit we have tbh
mighty valley
Why get kicked
why be irritating on purpose lol
mossy sluice
rallying cry
clever bronze
Gotcha.
last mason
Because what else is there to do in epic bgs when your team is already half afk and the other half is brainless
coarse kestrel
Be a civil human
last mason
If they don’t like it they don’t have to look at chat
strong forum
remote controlled
last mason
It’s like league lite
clever bronze
But Pelagos is better ._.
modern brook
You're not allowed to simultaneously complain about optimization and say you dont want to swap conduits
lavish oracle
I literally turn off team chat in league, , lol
modern brook
pick one
flat marten
Is kleia's slowing soulbind ability in the bottom row any good?
modern brook
is it the one that isnt 5% crit?
because if so you literally only run kleia for 5% crit
clever bronze
You're not allowed to simultaneously complain about optimization and say you don...
I didn't wanna make compromises to my DPS spec. I thought the bonus for using Pelagos would probably be higher than whatever I'd lose by not having free-reign in the Kleia soulbind.
flat marten
Ah, it's not 5% crit, no. I currently run kleia because I use pelagos for arms
I didn't realize the 5% crit was that much better
modern brook
i mean its 5% crit
thats like
200 crit just for picking a soul bind
basically a fatty ring
modern brook
I didn't wanna make compromises to my DPS spec. I thought the bonus for using Pe...
the real issue with sharing pelagos across two specs is that im near positive spear damage is not good when ashen juggernaut exists
clever bronze
the real issue with sharing pelagos across two specs is that im near positive sp...
DI > PV > Jugg, pretty sure.
At least as Fury.
I play Fury.
Idgaf if Arms gets shafted, I don't like Arms as much as I like Fury.
modern brook
mighty valley
I would just set up one soulbind to be optimum for mainspec and the second best soulbind to be good for offspec if I didn't want to change conduits a lot
modern brook
if ur questioning it just sim it; you can check different soulbinds on your character in top gear
clever bronze
This sim uses Massacre. Kyrian Fury doesn't use Massacre.
I'll sim myself, but yeah, I'm getting more out of using DI for my DPS Potency and then PV as my "class" potency.
Queues are long, not gonna rerun it just to remove Unnerving Focus. This is the best setup.
https://i.imgur.com/uFUfZPU.png
Using those talents, including BS and AM with Signet.
ST, of course.
mossy sluice
link the sim
mossy sluice
its 8 dps diff and your ashen jugg conduit is only 184
clever bronze
In other words: I don't need to care until an upgrade drops and I resim.
Worth noting also is that my DPS drops even more when I take Massacre. 36 DPS drop if I do that.
So yeah, herodamage should be using a different talent setup for Kyrian.
native mesa
anyone aware of a trinket chart/spreadsheet for prot?
clever bronze
Oh shit, that reminds me.
clever bronze
https://i.imgur.com/LH6fmNC.png
Since Gluttonous Spike wasn't far behind and provides some okay healing, what should I use as my 2nd trinket?
Anima Field for the Haste, or just take Skulker for the DPS?
strong forum
anime
clever bronze
The power of anime is truly with us.
gloomy sundial
@strong forum got a key for you if you'd like, weekly no leavers? =)
clever bronze
I'd do it for free.
gloomy sundial
How madge were you after that 1.5 hour SD 19 yesterday?
gloomy sundial
strong forum
yes
mossy sluice
yeah
limpid pawn
how about orb and spear?
strong forum
whatever you picked up last, will get used first
mossy sluice
you can have 1 of each weap
limpid pawn
basically orb + =anything?
lofty widget
you can have one of each
limpid pawn
you can pick up one of ALL weapons?
lofty widget
like spear+hammer+orb
limpid pawn
and what are your preferred weapons target?
lofty widget
spear+hammer on first, spear+orb on second, spear on third and hammer on last
limpid pawn
ok
oh, i usually skip nar'zudah
is there a good way to pick up that hammer?
without aggroing the pack
mossy sluice
its free with mind soothe
limpid pawn
tfw no priest. ok and is narzudah imprisonable?
mossy sluice
immune to cc iirc
mossy sluice
can have hunter/rogue grab it and feign, haven't really tried to grab it that often
limpid pawn
yeah i mean in terms of min/maxing i was wondering
basically you need some sort of mechanic to circumvent the mob
dusty geyser
mighty valley
to skip packs?
sick sentinel
well, what about rest of group? in a pug getting 5 people to all do invis at same time would be a chore
mighty valley
Pugs at higher keys are pretty used to it
ionic fern
In lower keys it's w/e just blast through.
On higher keys everyone has invis pots regardless.
rancid ember
^ Just remember to tell them when you'll be using the invis pot so they don't waste a pot on a Pull
sick sentinel
and you go invis with group to skip packs so that you can get pride at or before bosses and then kill bosses easier
that would be my assumption
mighty valley
correct
rancid ember
Usually it is for pride routing yeah. Sometimes it's just so you can skip harder trash and make up that % elsewhere in the dungeon too.
sick sentinel
ah okay, well, in BFA i only ever made it to 2k io, and that was with TD and when our talents were busted
rancid ember
BFA you didn't really need invis skips due to the Awakened affix. It functioned in the same way basically
Atleast in S4
mighty valley
yeah routing matters a lot now - in some dungeons if you pull naturally you get prideful halfway through hard packs etc
sick sentinel
i just shifted away from m+ come SL now, i did a +8 on time and like 2 or 3 other dungeons at 7
best i've done and i think my guy is like 207 or so, and he's my main character,
timber lagoon
Once you get to 10+ routing is really important
rancid ember
Don't blame you M+ pretty bad gearing option right now outside of weekly chests. I def recommend you start getting into it with the new 9.0.5 patch changes though.
The last 2 sets of Dungeon nerfs have really made a lot of things feel more fair too
mighty valley
there aren't really any "ugh" keys any more, barring some awkward affixes
sick sentinel
well, and its just, as tank even more so, you have to know EVERYTHING that can happen or will happen and do your best, and pray to god that the other 4 players are doing same
then add a timer, fuck that, im out
mighty valley
still like m+ a lot with premades, if I was only pugging I don't know if I would've gone deep
rancid ember
It just comes naturally when you play. Chances are if you're dieing in a key it's probably due to something you can avoid/adjust to. When to use CD's, dodging frontals, kicking specific spells etc.
The higher you get the better the pugs get too.
strong forum
well, what about rest of group? in a pug getting 5 people to all do invis at sam...
better than wiping to a shit pull
sick sentinel
like, if you are going to wipe use it as a rogue vanish?
sick sentinel
rest the boss lol, i did that so many times playing rogue....
no like, all 4 other players died to "gtfo this circle" and your only one up, so you hit invis belt and boss has no target and so despawns / reset
strong forum
you cant invis mid combat
i was talking about skipping a trash mob
as you asked about what to do about that narzu w/e his name is guy
engi belt is a good way to skip it
sick sentinel
ah, well, i know on rogue and mage and hunter i guess, you just go invis FD and then no aggro, i thought maybe thats what you meant
i'll have to work out where the invis pot skips are if when i get that far
strong forum
basically anything you would shroud
you just invis skip instead
if you dont have a rogue, which i think most groups are without
mellow patio
Rogue bad
midnight jetty
Is blade dancers kit any good ? at 207 with avoidance
coarse kestrel
Venthyr whos best? theotar's pot soulbind looks pretty sick
actually of these theotar ones look great
strong forum
Is blade dancers kit any good ? at 207 with avoidance
worst trinket in the game
modern brook
Is blade dancers kit any good ? at 207 with avoidance
BIS bfa trinket
blazing condor
main stat mushroom right in Mists or stam?
coarse kestrel
main stat mushroom
blazing condor
yeah ty
cinder storm
hahaha...dont do that
timber nest
hey dudes, im in a tough spot at the moment. wondering if you help me make sense of my vault
rancid ember
Screenshot go
rancid ember
Prob the right call
strong forum
i just default to core oil 24/7
coarse kestrel
shadowcore probably
at 210 ilvl its simming 50dps above stone/str for me
supposedly this gaps closes with gear which is why I mention the ilvl
timber nest
ahh ok
yah i saw somewhere that stones are only better at like 221 ilevel for fury. So i wasnt wondering if it scaled the same for prot
strong forum
oh yeah @gloomy sundial for the first 40min of the dungeon my group only talked about movies and how some are shit and how them using different lore to the books and yada yada was shit
so their focus was non existant
talking about how the warcraft movie was shit cuz it also played in a different universe than wow and how some of the props were shit
or how they dont like lotr
mighty valley
this week looks like the easiest affixes in a while to me
coarse kestrel
I enjoy the WoW movie
cinder nova
WoW lore is probably some of the most contrived writing I've seen in a mainstream IP in a long time.
strong forum
sanguine grievous are dogshit affixes for this week, a good week to skip
coarse kestrel
I'd watch the WoW movie over the second and third LoTR for sure but obviously fellowship > most things
cinder nova
LOTR > WoW Movie
strong forum
i liked the wow movie, but lotr is goat
cinder nova
Hobbit trilogy was dogshit, though.
strong forum
na i also liked hobbit
coarse kestrel
I liked hobbit
cinder nova
Hobbit was pretty far off the book and they shoehorned into a lot of elements that didn't serve the story in any way. A lot of what PJ clipped out of LOTR was because it didn't push the narrative forward meaningfully in a cinematic way, or he moved it around to give it more weight.
cinder nova
Like the entire thing from Bombadill wasn't in the movies.
onyx moon
just because it deviated from the books doesnt mean it wasnt good
strong forum
well Bombadil was Lotr
Hobbit is stretched, but i still enjoyed every part of it
except the elven lovestory bullshit
that was meh
cinder nova
Right, but that's an example of a clipped element that was soundly done. It spotlights Bombadil in the books, but movies and books are different mediums for storytelling.
onyx moon
with the dwarf?
strong forum
yeah...
cinder nova
The problem I have with Hobbit is that the dwarves and Gandalf didn't feel like their characters at all.
They seemed far more spiteful and venomous.
onyx moon
yeah that kinda of thing would have never happened
coarse kestrel
how do you even fit bombadil really
cinder nova
Rakin-Bass Hobbit > New Hobbit
Fight me
Even thought it was much shorter, it did more justice than the more recent films.
strong forum
cant fit bombadil just like you cant fit flash or quicksilver in movies
they would make all danger to the world irrelevant
cuz theyre OP
cinder nova
Well, not really.
They already postulated that Bombadil isn't going to solve their problem with the One Ring.
strong forum
Yes
nova vector
Question. I know shield ilvl is ultra important. My vault has a 226 shield with crit/haste/leech. I’m wearing the same shield with ilvl 220 minus the leech. Or I can upgrade my weapon from 207 to 226?
cinder nova
I'd personally go weapon
cinder storm
Id take the shield
cinder nova
^
nova vector
Also have a 223 chest with haste/vers/leech over 213 chest with no haste
strong forum
na its between shield or weapon for you
cinder nova
Shield is probably still the biggest gain.
nova vector
That’s what I figured
cinder storm
I also have a question, the add that you summon in NW in the second boss arena, does that give % or no?
cinder nova
I will say that I'm still kinda pissed that in both Rakin-Bass and the new releases they cut out Beorn.
And that made me sad as hell.
cinder storm
I forgot to check last time I did it
nova vector
I’m leaning weapon since I run fury some as well and only have 1handers
strong forum
👀
cinder nova
Pretty sure that's for an achievement.
cinder storm
ah gotcha
strong forum
yea ive never heard of that
rich helm
yo boys , is there a weak which shows which spells u should reflect
solemn magnet
ez choice this week
chilly brook
Only 4 dungeons
strong forum
ez stygia
solemn magnet
LOL
chilly brook
solemn magnet
i have a 207 MH, so no stygia this week
solemn magnet
i was gearing my brew this past week
chilly brook
Gross
last mason
spires is so cursed
literally unpuggable dungeon
plus dps in the 1700 range still dont realize that u cant just not use any cds on pride
especially this week
graceful pond
as Prot what legendary am i looking for first, wowhead has the thunderlord and the wall as super good, so im not sure which to go with first
atomic flicker
Is there any reason not to tank Devos inside that protection bubble?
I cant think of any reason not 2
but i feel like there should be
strong forum
no
mighty valley
i thought there was for a long time but there's not
strong forum
there is no reason not to
mighty valley
only reason is if your dps refuses to move and it gets filled with damage zones lol
valid zodiac
I had dps yelling on me the other day to move him out -.-
timber lagoon
Lol did you ask why?
valid zodiac
Nah I knew it doesnt matter but cba arguing
solemn magnet
For the longest time I thought if the 1st boss was too close to the snake tether you'd take Hella dmg. Turns out I prolly just ran through the beam a bunch trying to grt them next to each other =/
silent grove
It’s the S U P E R C O L L I D E R
valid zodiac
Second boss if you stack swirlies helps so much
last mason
idk people just autism out in spires
like idk how u get to 1600+ io without learning that dps often need to cd pride
ionic pewter
not sure which to pick - weapon is 13 ilvl upgrade, I have heroic kael'thas trinket and good dps trinkets but no defensive ones.
ionic pewter
cheers
last mason
i think i need to swap horde at this point
idk what the deal with alliance players is
limpid pawn
anyone clearing +20's yet
chilly brook
anyone clearing +20's yet
A few but I know Plka for sure is
Looks like 8 have done at least one 20
chilly brook
NF fucking pumps dude
chilly brook
Also NF is basically equivalent to Kyrian
Better damage and rage but lose out on some utility as a tradeoff
Also arguably better soulbinds
amber herald
how is korayn for prot? any good?
chilly brook
Never used
But I'd assume more than fine
AA would slaaaaaapppp at the start of a pack with Korayn
amber herald
I'm thinking for a meme build with seismic it might be a good choice
for pure damage
wicked lantern
NF fucking pumps dude
I swapped a few days ago after asking you about it. It’s amazing. That repeated knockdown is the absolute shit.
chilly brook
I swapped a few days ago after asking you about it. It’s amazing. That repeated ...
I honestly found that more useful than the phial for m+
I miss it but also I'm not a tank main anymore so w/e
dense flame
what would it take for prot to be competitive again in m+? Damage output increase?
dense flame
haven't been playing prot in keys so not sure how "durable" it feels.
strong forum
dmg increase and somehow a way to deal better with environmental damage / dots
limpid pawn
we would need better synergy to reduce downtime with our mitigation as well
strong forum
for example SD first boss just absolutely sucks as pwar
limpid pawn
to be on PAR with the better tanks as of now in m+
make the legendary bring back shield wall MUCH quicker than it already does, or bake in bolster into our kit and replace that with something else
un-nerf anger management
strong forum
i felt mega tanky in SD19 apart from first boss
for example
corridor wasnt an issue of me dying in the end but my group dying cuz lack of coordination
or healer running out of mana cuz lmao 7min of combat almost
only died to fuckups
chilly brook
i felt mega tanky in SD19 apart from first boss
Dont let pugs know that
cinder storm
I wish they could do something about the downtime
chilly brook
I got kicked from a 15 and I quote "because the group didnt want to wipe on 2nd boss because the healer had to pump all his mana into a prot warrior"
last mason
theyre good players dude they know what theyre talking about
stark sage
cinder storm
I have come to the pug conclusion that many healers are so used to DH's hp yoyoing that they simply throw everything at you
chilly brook
People are big dumb
Eh I feel like DHs dont yoyo that much
At least not good ones
tardy parcel
how's this week feel for keys so far (NA)? i remember healers struggling with manifestation of pride + grievous the last time grievous was a thing
strong forum
grievous is a bitch
tardy parcel
yea between my squad of people i run keys with, we have every single key at 15 or higher that we still need for KSM lol
chilly brook
Also it's a don't be stupid and help your healer out week
tardy parcel
hoping to be able to bang it out
last mason
casusal fire mage doing 46k with no lust or pride
strong forum
but im like 90% sure, our indom healing doesnt
last mason
balanced spec btw
strong forum
tbf Sleepy, hes a god mage
chilly brook
but im like 90% sure, our indom healing doesnt
Pretty sure it doesnt
strong forum
can somebody fucking tell me how to remove the fucking elvui objective timer in m+
ever since SL
the WA doesnt remove it from elvui anymore
so i just have both fucking things
last mason
ya true boomy has the single most impactful cov ability in the game
by leaps and bounds'
upbeat valve
So would switching to Necrolord with the upcoming changes to fleshcraft be a good idea at all if I plan to only tank mythics?
upbeat valve
Well not switching to. I don't have a covenant yet
strong forum
hard to tell
upbeat valve
Hmm
strong forum
if you just plan to play the game without a premade to perma play around and line up banner with boomkin / warlock / dk
kyrian / nf will be better all around choice
half epoch
Simp warr+Simp priest + fire mage, the new M+ meta
upbeat valve
I do have a premade full group.
Ret pally, restored sham, destro lock and s priest
half epoch
and fae guards
strong forum
NF priest is getting buffed
upbeat valve
Hmm interesting
strong forum
thats a scuffed premade comp, i dont think necro will be all too useful there
its still hard to tell as its not out
upbeat valve
Ya we're not really going for a meta comp
strong forum
and not been thoroughly played out
upbeat valve
Ah
strong forum
somewhere march
upbeat valve
Hopefully early march
limpid pawn
i agree
strong forum
thats not even an exaggeration
strong forum
na thats BDK
half epoch
I think pwarr kit is ok, it just needs the dmg buff and I guess uptime will get better as we get more stats
strong forum
uptime feels fine tbh, but i havent done real keys yet so i cant say much in that regard how much you actually struggle
limpid pawn
compared to vdh/monk prot's uptime in general needs some catching up
vdh is the pinnacle of "modern" tanking imo
cinder storm
How much does a DH vs War on high keys on average? In the 14-16 range I m around 2.4-2.9 but my DH on key range 12-14 with less ilvl does about the same dps it feels
limpid pawn
like wtf is meta lol
the ultimate cooldown
avatar in BFA with bastion of might came close
strong forum
i do like ~4k dps
limpid pawn
yeah by the end of keys on my vdh im at 4k+ dps
strong forum
vdh just does more damage
its just how it is
you can play like a literal god, but youll still only be equal to an alright vdh, or probably still do less than an alright dh
limpid pawn
yeah
cinder storm
yeah...
limpid pawn
yeah....
cinder storm
Sadge
strong forum
all you need to do is look at wcl statistics
and check tank dmg
war is 20-50% behind
limpid pawn
so - let's just make thunderclap big damage again, give us 3rd charge of shield block and rip the bandaid off
make avatar have bastion of might baked in, bolster baked in, return avatar to former glory
they can keep the ITF nerf so that we aren't "too op"
limpid pawn
replace ravager with neltharian's fury from legion 😮
strong forum
eh
atleast make neltharions fury deal damage and generate rage
cuz i hated it to death that it was legit a HUGE dps loss to use it in legion
limpid pawn
lol, make it like a clone of fel devastation
strong forum
a massive fucking DPS loss
limpid pawn
so new neltharian's fury deals massive aoe in a cone shape, turns on avatar (with mastery buff)
cinder storm
Make execute for prot only not use rage
limpid pawn
make ignore pain have a chance to proc shield wall....
things like taht, we aren't asking for much
SHIT
valid zodiac
I'd be content with 15 rage block,25 rage IP and 20% dmg buff
sullen flame
I'd just like a damage buff and swap ITF and Dev around
I honestly don't understand why they had to fuck prot talents up
limpid pawn
because they wanted the color brown to turn into the color purple on raider.io tank representation
duuuuh
fallow beacon
Honestly feel like the best thing would be to take revenge off the GCD
Would feel so much better
exotic spoke
Imo, the larger part of the issue is the mobility / kiting compared to other classes when that was a required part of ranking high m+ (more than now) combined with the significant nerf in effective shield block up time
Well, mobility plus being able to hold Aggro while kiting
Also, hi nome qtpie
strong forum
👋 ♥️
exotic spoke
But that’s just my opinion anyway.
jolly spindle
idk why prot doesnt have piercing howl
solar spear
i mean VDH has kiting which makes it strong, but bear is strong too just down to it's huge on-cd tankiness. I think prot needs more magic reduction (take less magic dmg while IP or SB is up?) and bigger burst somehow.
strong forum
cuz thats totally a metric
jolly spindle
but fury has small weapons now
remote hawk
We got the kleia soulbind now to slow shit down ! Iff u are kyrain that is 😆
who needs a pesky shout lul
exotic spoke
VDH also has a stupid amount of uptime on fiery brand
rancid ember
Which was addressed, but arguably not in a bad way 😄
exotic spoke
Though it’s getting a minor nerf
strong forum
imagine having a 40% demo shout with 80% uptime
rancid ember
They took away the conduit that reduced the cd 10 seconds at 213 and changed to reduce Fel Dev cool down instead so it's a decent trade off
strong forum
FB uptime is getting a nerf
but theyre getting a massive Fel Dev meta uptime buff
so theyre getting even stronger with next patch
cuz meta > fb
exotic spoke
It’s only about 4-6 seconds off after you put the 10 seconds into more CDR abilities
And also, yes more meta 🙂
I think it’ll overall be a neutral trade off personally
solar spear
imagine having a 40% demo shout with 80% uptime
oh man buff the damage bonus to 40% too
exotic spoke
VDH just brings so much control , mitigation, and mobility
strong forum
control is kinda w/e, we have shockwave stormbolt and fear
which i personally think is stronger
rancid ember
^
strong forum
than silence sigil every 1.5min or w/e
rancid ember
Silence 1 in cd, chains 1.5 min cd
exotic spoke
Disagree nome. Aoe silence, plus two other aoe interrupts, throw in a huge slow on one of those as well as a displacement
A single target cc / interrupt, a purge etc
rancid ember
0 stuns, nothing reliable to interrupt a stunnable cast fast
exotic spoke
That and not having them be on stun DR
rancid ember
IE fungal stormers
solar spear
That and not having them be on stun DR
just be night fae hehe
strong forum
you cant react to casts not being CC'd by others
on DH
2sec delay on your shit is death
strong forum
you have to pre-use it
exotic spoke
Nah, why would I do that? And sure I guess? I think claiming that as utility is fair I just don’t think it’s as good as dh utility
exotic spoke
Primarily because stun drs suck and had plenty of experience with that last season
Having swapped to VDH honestly I don’t miss them
strong forum
i couldnt help for shit on dh
exotic spoke
Agree
solar spear
yeah. it's most fun when tanks feel like gods haha
exotic spoke
Eh, then healers aren’t necessary. It’s a fine line
strong forum
please remove needing healers
solar spear
more unavoidable group damage ¯_(ツ)_/¯, then it's more engaging for the healer than spamming the tank too. And i dont think healers doing dps is a bad thing really
strong forum
reward good play up to the point where you dont need a healer or barely
exotic spoke
Healers doing dps is a good thing. Everyone should be maximizing their dps in m+
strong forum
currently we need a good healer AND good dps
even in low keys you rely on your group to survive
even when youre maxed the fuck out and play perfectly
solar spear
Healers doing dps is a good thing. Everyone should be maximizing their dps in m+
yeah i know, i mean like in legion the meta was for healers to do masses of dps and hardly heal. i think up to a point thats fine
solar spear
do dmg on trash, heal group on bosses
yeah man
exotic spoke
I disagree personally. I think that then they start to remove healers and pick up dps specs that off heal
Like rets, WW, etc
exotic spoke
MDI meta has never been high key meta. But it would be what people try to use as the meta in lower keys
strong forum
sure i wouldnt mind
exotic spoke
And that’s something I guarantee would get bitched about
strong forum
4 dps 1 tank in low keys
why not
wanna know what
zmok did that this week already
1 prot pally 4 dps
in 15-17 keys
exotic spoke
I think that’s poor game design that people who made a character to heal can’t do keys then
If it gets too prevalent
Of course it’s an exaggeration but that’s the argument which would get made
strong forum
it wouldnt turn out to be meta cuz average players will still need to get healed properly
exotic spoke
Anyway, off to cook dinner
trim bay
Is the quantum device any good as a prot dps trink? Got a 226 in chest. Not sure if I should take it or 220 hands
coarse kestrel
is there an automatic tag for mythic+ routes?
lavish oracle
How do you mean @coarse kestrel ?
last mason
i think im actually retarded
the wind knocks in the lich part of top
i keep eating them
over and over
and idk why
its feels like the milisecond i go for a kick or an offheal i just go flying
last mason
is my brain just even smaller than i thought it was
wicked lantern
Sounds like you might just be losing focus and forgetting about them til it’s too late.
Focus up.
You got this!
last mason
i feel like im trying to do too many things at once
because i never trust the pugs to kick necrotic bolts or anything
or the bone spikes
but idk i guess i just need to let jesus take the wheel
lavish oracle
I mean, if you die the pull is more fucked than if they die
last mason
ive been missing 18 spires and top for like 3 weeks now
spires i get bad groups and top i keep trolling
wicked lantern
PUGS make me feel key capped. Ppl are so ruthless, makes me hesitant to join keys.
fickle dust
hey friends, can i ask a vault question? 😬
i've got a shield, a chest, and a weapon -- 16, 16, and 13 ilvl upgrade, respectively
last mason
shield
feral gale
shield all day long
fallow beacon
Shield always
fickle dust
i'd be losing 15 haste?
fallow beacon
Block % trumps all
feral gale
we goin Kleia this week at last?
feral gale
but i have so much mastery already... i hate u pelagos
coarse kestrel
I just want to thank this discord for all the help you guys have tossed around and you guys were critical in making me #1 dps prot for lady inerva in the US on LFR
strong forum
huge
last mason
yuge
coarse kestrel
couldn't have done it without you all
thorn narwhal
what ilevel do i need to not corpse instantly in 15 keys
restive wigeon
I did ksm on prot with like 215ish
corroded claws cast in plaguefall would onehit me regardless 🤠
obtuse nova
just switched to necrolord today, might regret it but, I just want to meme and try out a support warrior build with it
fickle timber
fuck i was already kyrian, then venthyr, now back to kyrian
RIIIPPP
kyrian feels good
obtuse nova
you can just stick with it, kyrian is nice and does some good burst aoe damage
and the healing dispell pot is awesome
thorn narwhal
im venthyr cuz four-e main
chilly brook
what ilevel do i need to not corpse instantly in 15 keys
People were doing them in like 200ilvl
thorn narwhal
okay but with pugs tho
thorny stone
corroded claws cast in plaguefall would onehit me regardless 🤠
Stun to sync, spell reflect, easy
oblique garnet
UwU warrior #Nr1
coarse kestrel
are there any sims for it yet?
oblique garnet
@ionic fern does prot sims dunno if anything is updated yet doubt it
Basic live covenants should be up to date
But recent ptr builds are not
lusty torrent
it only gonna be good for HIGHLY coordinated groups
400 mastery isnt gonna do jack if it isnt on a hunter/fmage/boomy during their 2 min cds
coarse kestrel
I mean yea, already get the mastery as venthyr on theotar plus the double pot duration
dunno if the 10% str will outdamage that though
glossy needle
Guys, spear or ravager first in an m+ aoe pull?
patent osprey
Ravager
coarse kestrel
did anyone determine if the mastery buff is a constant radius around you or you can pop it and it stays on those people?
coarse kestrel
ravager or fray on kael?
ocean bloom
mythic or heroic and tbh it doesnt matter that fight is a meme lol
cinder nova
dunno if the 10% str will outdamage that though
10% for me is 126 STR
Which is like
2 pieces
limpid pawn
yo no healers are queuing up at all!
earnest frost
this has probably been asked like 100 times by now, but for pure m+ spear is still better than banner right?
final axle
I dont know of anyone thats ever said necrolords is better than spear in any content in its current form
But I've never used either
mighty valley
they've just been fucky all evening so they probably gotta pull them down to apply the fix
novel lotus
They played me with that server reset =/
blazing gale
server shut down happens everyweek around 4/5/6 at night before weekly reset
vague jetty
That is not correct
blazing gale
everytime I was llogged in to the game on wednesday at night around 3 there is a message that servers will be shut down
sometimes it was 30 min sometimes 1 hour sometimes more
blazing gale
If its not something major shouldn;t last long tho
mossy peak
it's already over
trim bay
hey guys. how does coalesced hatred go?
blazing gale
still better to have shut down than lags in raid like in prepatch lol
last mason
do most people still do the doulble knock platform in top
or have they swapped to bonestorm guy
been seeing that more often
blazing gale
from what i've noticed most people go double left now
mossy peak
the winds guys are the least threatening mobs in that whole area
they have one avoidable mechanic and you're golden, it's everything else that does bonkers damage
especially all the weenie casters
last mason
how do they accomodate double left in %
i dont usually have a problem with the weenies, its trying to control kicks and cc and offheals while dodging tornadoes
mighty valley
i've been doing right then left for a while there and percent is fine
tall plinth
For venthyr tanking (ik its awful) in the final row of soulbinds in general draven do you take hold your ground, superior tactics, or built for war?
for m+
unique shale
which one, all of them are major upgrade for me but with wrong stats only legs has good stats for arm.
haste/cirt leg
crit/mastry chest
crit/mastry head
ripe valve
anima field emitter any good at 226?
median tulip
Shield from the Vault \o/
unique shale
nice
chilly brook
anima field emitter any good at 226?
Yes
dense flame
how do you pull that first maze room with the 2 mobs in mists again?
before you start maze
unique shale
how do you pull that first maze room with the 2 mobs in mists again?
before you ...
there is window at left
final axle
For venthyr tanking (ik its awful) in the final row of soulbinds in general drav...
Why go draven?
tall plinth
Why go draven?
what should i go?
unique shale
what should i go?
this week draven and mad duke are bad at any case
unique shale
what should i go?
go nadjia all way down
dense flame
wym @unique shale
final axle
I like theo and Nadja way more, tried Draven out but my understanding is the dmg reduction is miniscule with how DR works
dense flame
do i just have to scale down the barrier till i find the window
unique shale
do i just have to scale down the barrier till i find the window
no there is window at right side just stay there to see adds and taunt it
dense flame
fsho
graceful cobalt
hi guys i have 207 shoes (Crit/Mastery/Leech) 203 Shoes (crit/haste) and can buy pvp shoes 220 (haste/versa or the Trinket haste strengh procc ( there i have 213 shrek and 213 hung trinket)
so should i buy feet or trinket?
final axle
wym <@!493219369648783371>
Probably because sanguine. I had to switch off theo because the mastery was wasted and draven requires standing still
Also probably an unfortunate affix for our night fae brothers
Nvm just realized you were asking a dif question
lofty widget
3.2k
manic scaffold
ok ty
heady ivy
Definately the shield right? The other alternative is the spherule but my main hand is 200
chilly brook
Shield is your most important item @heady ivy
slender idol
is the gluttonous spike trinket shite?
median tulip
is the gluttonous spike trinket shite?
I used it in M+ when it was my highest iLvl trinket, pretty decent for big pulls but nothing spectacular
subtle island
226 m+ wep or zenith anima spherule?
any bonus on raid weps?
220 btw the raid wep
jagged pier
u take the 226
graceful cobalt
hi wich i should Buy 220er feet (haste/versa) or 220 Trinket (haste+strengh procc) i have feet 203(crit/haste) or 207 (crit/mastery/leech) trinket Gluttromus Spike and Skulker´s Wing both 213
graceful cobalt
ok thx
lavish hare
Id say feet too since its the highest upgrade and more armor
graceful cobalt
yeah actually i play with gluttomus and pvp 197er haste trinket (with into the frey 33% haste)
outer solstice
the PvP trinket haste + strength procc is pretty good
but the upgrade for the feet is quite heavy
I'd go with that and grab the trinket next week
jaunty vector
You guys think 210 is enough to hit up some 15s?
jaunty vector
I just make my own groups always
I pugged keystone master almost 2months ago on my hunter was easy
I just feel like a squishy punk on my war
ionic fern
I was pugging as well the whole time. 👀
torpid cliff
Equip your highest ilvl stuff before signing up, change to your prot stuff when you get accepted.
Scummy, but fuckem
jagged pier
i was pugging the whole time too 👀
ionic fern
Finding decent DPS is the second thing that makes you tankier after playing your class correctly in m+. 😂
jagged pier
^^
ionic fern
Most of the DPS are...lackluster tho.
Even at 1.6k we had a boomy who diddn't
1)Silence
2)Soothe
3)Typhoon/Vortex.
sweet summit
Sounds like Ginger
ionic fern
Probably was.
You should make it with capital G tho @sweet summit ..so people know it's a name.
😂
ebon hound
median tulip
Most DPS players think their entire job is making big yellow numbers, when it's actually the least important part of what they have to do.
ionic fern
I wonder how the new seasonal affix will affect dungeons. 🤔
Prides damage buff plays a pretty big part throughout the dungeon.
sweet summit
Wonder how healermana is gonna be with next seasonal affix 🤔
sweet summit
Doomed timeline
ionic fern
I just hope they will continue with the good/bad type tho.
sweet summit
Yeah its been great
ionic fern
When are you re-rolling alliance tho?
We need a DPS for keys.
sweet summit
👀
blazing condor
Fuck vault all my homies hate the vault
median tulip
Wonder how healermana is gonna be with next seasonal affix 🤔
I assume that the next affix will be thematically appropriate to whichever zone has the next raid tier. I don't think there's any leak of that, yet.
sick sentinel
Okay, I have enough ash to purchase either a rank 2 The wall legendary or Thunderlord. I plan on doing +s mainly, but I will be clearing raid weekly. I have heard debates on The wall being better even in mythic+ at higher keys. What would you guys go with first in my position?
ionic fern
If you're raiding and doing m+ as well then The Wall.
median tulip
I use The Wall on Tyrannical weeks, Thunderlord on Fortified
sick sentinel
Ill probably go with The Wall first then. I like the combo of Booming Voice and Thunderlord which is making it hard for me to decide hah! If I went The Wall is it more optimal to play Heavy repercussions vs Bolster?
blazing condor
Bolster for m+
sick sentinel
Regardless of leggo, aight!
sick sentinel
Fair
blazing condor
AM + Wall is a nice feel though with like 1.5 min SW but i think bolster gives more value overall
ionic fern
Rework HR to provide SB CD reduction by like 0.5S per SS or provide 1s of SB instead of extending and we gucci.
sick sentinel
@ionic fern that would be amazing
median tulip
Rework HR to provide SB CD reduction by like 0.5S per SS or provide 1s of SB ins...
I endorse this message
ionic fern
Tho for the good of the spec...they should remove most block modifying talents.
verbal pelican
Is Viscera of Coalesced Hatred any good? Pondering over my GV choices...
median tulip
Is Viscera of Coalesced Hatred any good? Pondering over my GV choices...
It's ok. I wouldn't pass up my Scale and Anima Field Emitter combo for it though.
lofty widget
Is Viscera of Coalesced Hatred any good? Pondering over my GV choices...
its r ougly 3 % healing and dmg over the course of a dungeon at 226 ilvl
verbal pelican
Did only one dos run and it ended up horribly so I avoided it for this week. 😄 Thanks!
Oh, and btw does it stack with gluttonous spike? After equipping i noticed that they have the same trigger mechanism
flint cliff
Do ppl play Signet nowadays for m+ as prot?
sweet summit
Not really
outer solstice
wall too stronk
median tulip
Do ppl play Signet nowadays for m+ as prot?
Doesn't work with Ravager for Protection
outer solstice
also we only get limited use out of signet as it doesn't trigger with our ravager
as our ravager is no bladestorm replacement
tired cove
@ionic fern hey buddy as vent for raid tanking who would you run draven or nadjia
turbid horizon
apparently i'm prot now
turbid horizon
I forgot to change loot spec to arms
so I got this now
could have been a 226 OPC 😦
sweet summit
Its ok opc can come next week ;)
turbid horizon
I've been saying that for 5 weeks 😦
sweet summit
Sadge
remote hawk
How is the dmg calculated on a trinket like blood spattered when u got SB up ? Does is calculate the blocked dmg first and then the rest goes into the trinket shield?
sweet summit
Pretty sure block comes first
remote hawk
Would be the most logical at least
So it's not something weird crap like the one u pressed first is the one who takes prio
sweet summit
Not that im aware of
turbid horizon
Jesus this trinket is good
what the fuck
now i see why our main tank is annoyed at me
turbid horizon
ya it's giving me a shield for almost my entire hp pool
median tulip
Yeah, it does that
turbid horizon
Guess I'm the main tank now
sudden kayak
does condem replace revenge or is it execute it replaces for prot and if condem replaces revenge does the revenge condem hit normal like all targets or just 1 target
turbid horizon
condemn replaces ignore pain iirc
turbid horizon
and execute, ofc
sudden kayak
kk
turbid horizon
wait do you mean rotationally or it actually replaces the ability?
sudden kayak
kk
sudden kayak
yea i fixed the aggro problem it was a lil that i wasnt using revenge on opener slapped a few in more and then i went from 190 to 205 now i can hold aggro
gaunt crane
I got bladedancer's armor kit in vault, to take or not to take 😄
jolly thistle
no other options?
gaunt crane
my other option is a 4Ilvl diff glove
jagged pier
thats better
gaunt crane
ok thanks :=D
bitter crest
I am at 219 ilvl now und still wearing 203 emitter und 200 scale. It's just no fun this way.
solar spear
i got 226 emmiter or 220 nathria weapon in the vault, i have 207 versions of both atm. advice please 🙂
bitter crest
226 emitter comes only from vault...
vapid nymph
Quick question: I see a lot of The Wall over Thunderlord in m+. Does it come down to personal preference mostly? Looking for my first legendary craft on prot.
jagged pier
Quick question: I see a lot of The Wall over Thunderlord in m+. Does it come dow...
yes its preference
bitter crest
Preference, i prefer wall clearly
vapid nymph
Got it, thanks!
solar spear
226 emitter comes only from vault...
got it thanks. also got a 226 crit/haste ring (w/socket) from vault, but all that crit for prot puts me off it
bitter crest
haste/crit or haste/vers is both fine for me
mortal ruin
hi guys, im a 218 prot warrior always struggling with trinquets. I get Bladedancer's Armor Kit and Sanguine Vintage on the weekly chest. what do you think??
solar spear
vintage
mortal ruin
i think so, Bladedancers looks shitty
midnight jetty
Okay so got a shit vault, got a 226 neck socket heavy mast crit which would replace a 207 neck socket with heavy haste and mast
or 210 vers mas belt with socket which can be replaced by mythic belt heavy haste crit 226
kinda stuck here
mortal ruin
belt looks great in my opinion
dry spear
gemming and enchanting versa is the way to go in higher keys?