protection

[ionic fern]

👀

[sweet surge]

2m

[ionic fern]

Combust is 2m also right?

[sweet surge]

Combust is 1min

on average, give or take

[ionic fern]

Oh ..seems i'm out of date with mages.

[sweet surge]

w/ proper play

[smoky wave]

Think this is it. Bigger pulls, better routes, and trying to keep stuff still for the fire mage I guess.

[nimble solar]

Is there a way to see on logs if tanks die while having their backs turned?

[sweet surge]

you only care about standing still for the Fmage in the opener when he';s combusting, fire patches fall off quickly after

[ionic fern]

Not reliably i think.
Maybe if they had SB up but the melee hit diddn't count as "Blocked" in logs then they had their back turned.

I'm not 100% sure about it tho..maybe there's another way.

[smoky wave]

I plan the routes but there's often an ass pulls. We're getting there, just frustrating 😅

[nimble solar]

alright i just have a suspicion that my tank does that in keys and just gets trucked

but cant really prove it 🥶

[sweet surge]

always be strafing is the name of thegame

[ionic fern]

Do you have the logs? I can take a look.

[nimble solar]

nah i dont it was something i was gonna begin doing to see if that was the issue

[echo egret]

I suddenly notice after installing MSBT, that when I have IP up, the remaining 50% damage I can take is not blocked by Shield Block. Is that normal ?

[sweet summit]

Because you block first, then 50% damage of that damage after block goes into IP

Pretty sure thats it

[echo egret]

Oh ok phew, and my combat text doesn't show the blocked part.

Any way to be sure of that ? I would guess the addon displays what it reads in the combat events ?

[sweet summit]

Thats probably what the addon does yeah

[echo egret]

... which implies that the combat events don't even show you blocked anything, unlike when you don't have an absorb shield.

[sweet summit]

Hmm

[echo egret]

Since I do get "xxx dmg (yyy blocked)" messages

[sick sentinel]

if u rly wanted to see exact details you can check SPELL_DAMAGE events they carry blocked and absorbed

[strong forum]

Im using parrot to display my dmg intake

And have blocked behind the dmg I took

Very fun to see it

[smoky wave]

Oooh I like that

[strong forum]

When you see that sweet crit block

Dmg? What damage?

[blazing condor]

Makes me miss BoM

All that mastery nam nam nam

[strong forum]

Pelagos is pseudo bom

[blazing condor]

Its not the same 😔

[brittle owl]

kyrians copystriked BoM

there is only one Bastion now

[dry spear]

how has it been in the prot land since the last m+ nerf? still kiting all the time?

[jagged pier]

wasnt kiting before not kiting now unless its the 2 packs in DoS or gargons

[strong forum]

Every tank is still kiting and will continue to do so until they nerf like 80% of mobs auto attack damage and or buff tanks surv by substantial amounts

Aswell as nerf the actual dangerous packs everybody is complaining about all the time instead of nerfing other packs

They're doing a replay of BFA I feel like.

Everybody complained about Shadow of Zul since launch, but hes had never seen a nerf

[signal plover]

Wait maelk is back wot

[strong forum]

Except a small 7%hp nerf

Ye mael has been summoned from the dead

[signal plover]

RIP

Wait

Reverse RIP

[sweet summit]

Work in stress?

[blazing condor]

Just skip zul 4head

Correct game design

[heavy sail]

I think expectations of how high(relative) keys should go, are skewed by BfA borrowed power.

Kiting was always a thing when pushing to the maximum, it’s just that the floor for what that means has gone down.

And with the current paradigm in m+, anything further than a +14/15 is just unnecessary unless you’re going for pure challenge mode.

[signal plover]

It's also compounded by it being the first tier so you're working up from greens/blues and the fact that the max weekly reward is from 14+ and not 10+

[heavy sail]

The benefit drastically falls off by that point

[jagged pier]

BRING BACK CM'S

not this m+ shit

[heavy sail]

It’s not really been my experience, but I’ve heard a lot of people in here say that they got by face tanking up to 15.

[jagged pier]

you can face tank 15s very easily

as i said above only very few things u need to kite

[heavy sail]

So what’s there to complain about? 15 is KSM and the pinnacle of loot.

Anything beyond that should absolutely be mechanically harder and annoying to deal with

[blazing condor]

210 ilvl is a joke

[jagged pier]

its not the pinnacle of loot

its not worth the rewards

yet

[heavy sail]

Isn’t 15 226 weekly?

[blazing condor]

I guess killing shriekwing is harder than a +15

[sweet summit]

14 is 226 from vault yeah

[jagged pier]

i would say they are easier than a hc raid

[heavy sail]

So it is the pinnacle of loot

[jagged pier]

so they should reward lower gear in some sense

[heavy sail]

Or that’s how blizzard sees it

[jagged pier]

233 is the pinnacle of loot

cant get that from m+

[heavy sail]

Right

[blazing condor]

Im fine with that

[sweet summit]

I guess, if you dont count 233 weap/other slors from last two mythic

[heavy sail]

I’m fine with it as well

233 being saved for CE and gladiator is fine imo

Blizzard has made it clear they have no intention on making repeatable content like individual m+ keys provide loot on-par with high level raid and PvP

So weekly vault is the compromise

The issue with that imo, is what everyone else has already said to death.

There’s no catch-up mechanic

Gearing alts, if you’re not a PvP player, is incredibly tedious and unfun

[blazing condor]

I feel like m+ should be able to award heroic or slightly higher tier loot

[jagged pier]

no chance they are no where as close as diffciult

[blazing condor]

Its weird asf to have the gap we have right now where m+ is between normal and heroic

[jagged pier]

and being able to spam them and then outgear the raid

[blazing condor]

Anyone can pug HC at least up to generals i dont think thats comparable to a m15+ where you only get 2 pieces

[jagged pier]

what

[blazing condor]

right now you have to raid or do higher level pvp if you wanna be competitive which is something not everyone can do

[jagged pier]

its 3 pieces between 20

or 2 betwen 5

[heavy sail]

Dungeon gearing system with a currency structure like conquest would be the best way to go forward I think.

[jagged pier]

^^

if u do KSM u can upgade upto 226

would be great

id bee behind it

[orchid frigate]

same

[smoky wave]

I'm good where it is atm, though I'm probs at a different level to the rest of you. doing 10-12 keys now, we've just cleared normal and starting hc (all of our first non-pug raid since wrath). The loot actually feels ok. I want something to work towards to make the raid worth it at the challenge it is to us, while still having access (albeit slowly) to the higher/highest gear (eventually, when we get the timers/routes right)

[blazing condor]

Then u clear the entire raid and get 1 conduit in total

and sludge head

Pve gearing Is incredibly lacking rn but im probably just bitter lol

[weak thunder]

its not that bad tbh

its slower than in bfa

but i think it's good

[smoky wave]

yeah, been there, done that, but the guild gets loot. realistically we'll never get sire hc. I'm still happy running dungeons for other people looting (except that bastard scale, everyone loots tank in DOS now).

[weak thunder]

i can actually enjoy a piece of new loot

[heavy sail]

The issue isn’t the difficulty of getting loot, imo. That’s an oversimplification. The problem is that there’s an absolutely massive gap between all PvE sources and PvP sources, combined with there being not a single catch-up mechanic for PvE players.

[weak thunder]

instead of disenchatning it 1 day later

[smoky wave]

yeah, it's jarring coming from bfa, but now I'm used to it it's nice

[weak thunder]

the pve/pvp gap isn't really a problem

if you do pve, pve gear will suffice

[heavy sail]

???

That’s just not true. Lol.

[weak thunder]

if you want all BIS as fast as possible, do both

[smoky wave]

aye, the pve/pvp disparity sucks, but I also suck at/don't want to pvp. I'm not at the cutting edge so whether someone else has done pvp and has better gear sooner....doesn't really matter 🤷‍♀️

[heavy sail]

I started a holy paladin alt about 2-3 weeks ago that’s already just under 220 ilvl. That’s literally 2-3 weeks of getting a piece of 220-226 weekly gear that may or may not be an upgrade.

[weak thunder]

my mage hasn't stepped into a single m+, all my gear came from the normal and heroic CN and right now i dont need anything better to reclear them

[heavy sail]

The gap is massive

[weak thunder]

so the gap exists

but isnt really a problem

unless you want it to be

[heavy sail]

It is, a huge problem.

[weak thunder]

why?

[heavy sail]

I can’t alt raid on a pure PvE toon until 2 months of vault grinding

[weak thunder]

that's quite bullshit

[smoky wave]

that's lack of catchup, not pvp though

[weak thunder]

you can alt raid in like a week after dinging

i actually did this on my warrior

[heavy sail]

You can do mythic CN a week after hitting 60 on a toon that you don’t PvP on?

That’s a load of horseshit

[weak thunder]

you said raid

not "clear mythic cn"

[heavy sail]

That’s what I mean

[weak thunder]

which was done by like less than 20 alliance guilds

ok, so on the other hand

you want to clear mythic CN in like 2 weeks after dinging you alt?

that would be awful mmo game design

[heavy sail]

So you, by extension, think PvP gearing is bad game design then

[weak thunder]

not really

[heavy sail]

Because it’s literally possible through that gearing system

But not the current PvE one

[weak thunder]

well

[signal plover]

You can get to ~210 pretty quick but you plateau around 213

[weak thunder]

good luck getting bis pvp in a week

[heavy sail]

I did

[weak thunder]

if you're good, then sure, maybe you will farm all the pieces

[heavy sail]

And it wasn’t that hard lmao

[weak thunder]

but if you're so good, i bet you dont give a flying fuck about mythic cn xd

[heavy sail]

Conquest cap and duelist in 2 weeks.

[signal plover]

Thats a lot of playtime

[heavy sail]

And my problem isn’t necessarily pvp gearing

It is @signal plover

Had to get all my time in before the holy nerfs

[signal plover]

Gearing is pretty easy to fix atm without overcorrecting. Currency or tokens seems like the most straightforward way forward

[weak thunder]

ok, then it comes to this: i dont see the gap as some major problem and still enjoy the game, you don't. We won't change our minds here, and I wish you all the best xD

[heavy sail]

I enjoy the game, but gearing is obviously a major problem.

I don’t even know why this is a debate.

[weak thunder]

because our opinions differ

[heavy sail]

And it is ultimately an easy fix.

[weak thunder]

and i say gearing is fine

[heavy sail]

Your opinion is wrong.

[weak thunder]

xD

[jagged pier]

https://giphy.com/gifs/discussion-fandom-opinion-5XNEIKcohVG8w

[weak thunder]

i did chase m+ dragon in bfa

maybe i just burned out

and i like the slow pace of sl

after all its just a video game xD

[heavy sail]

The “it’s just a video game” defense, classic.

@strong forum hey bud you can’t complain about kiting anymore, it’s just a video game.

[blazing condor]

Gearing is easy tho tbh just have gear drop for you

[weak thunder]

i'm not defending anything

but it may be that i dont care as much about wow as you do

[jagged pier]

wow is life if I dont get loot my day is ruined

[weak thunder]

rn there is so much snow in my country that drifting is life

[heavy sail]

[blazing condor]

honestly tho the weekly vault do be a big part of what i look forward to nowdays lmao

then u open it and life is shit again

[heavy sail]

Then you see that shiny 226 in the same slot as your 235 legendary and weep

[jagged pier]

thats why i open in arms

[sweet kayak]

What addon/weak aura shows party cd's? 🙂

[jagged pier]

omnicd

[sweet kayak]

thanks!

[blazing condor]

I just need some got dang trinkets man

I know theyre in that vault somewhere

[hazy fern]

Could someone please link patch notes?

[orchid frigate]

got generals trinky last night on my monk

feels nice

[valid zodiac]

Did they update the visuals on Sire after killing adds? Swirlies now appear orange to me

[strong forum]

Yes

[lofty widget]

yes part of the new hotfixes

does this mean the 43 min timer for dos is in-game as well btw?

[amber herald]

regional resets

tomorrow if EU

[lofty widget]

ahh RIP

[amber herald]

some stuff they put in before the reset though like with weapons in NW

[heavy sail]

Timer fix for DoS is pog

I might actually run it now

[orchid frigate]

whats the point of a details nickname?

[tardy parcel]

fun with friends

because how else are you supposed to laugh in a raid if someone isn't named Big Peepee Man in Details?

[orchid frigate]

i see

[jagged pier]

it is for big memes

but make sure u change it before pugging

[amber herald]

"why is the tank called adolf hitler?"

[heavy sail]

Adolf Shitler*

[bleak rapids]

We're doing some rerolling in our guild to help with mythic prog (3/10).
Our main tank is vengance and I'm going to go back to tanking as our current tank isnt feeling up to the task. Does anybody have a good idea if there is a specific tank comp you really want if your aim is to make the experience as easy and painless as possible?
We have all debuffs/raid buffs filled.

Not sure if this is the right place to pose this question. Tyvm!

[jagged pier]

not quite along thos lines but yer change it before going public

[heavy sail]

@bleak rapids as long as all raid buffs are covered it doesn’t really matter all that much.

You could clear full mythic CN with any combo I think

Most optimal for you might mean prioritizing survivability over everything else, in which case Guardian and Prot warrior are great.

[jagged pier]

yer anything will do prots your AP buff and rally so u dont need to bring a dps warrior

[heavy sail]

Big pumpers? Prot pally and BrM

[signal plover]

What tank are you most comfortable on?

[bleak rapids]

As we're this late in the tier I'd rather prioritize survivability over dps from my spec. So you're saying that prot warr or guardian might be the play for that?

[strong forum]

I like pwar vdh combo tbh

[heavy sail]

Guardian is the play for survivability for sure.

Prot warrior is also good and has some situational benefits

Like rallying cry is a huge +

[bleak rapids]

@signal plover haven't really tanked in shadowlands but played all tanks in various levels of difficulty in bfa except for vdh

[signal plover]

Right, is there one you prefer or enjoy the playstyle of?

[heavy sail]

I would maybe steer clear of guardian only if your raid is really struggling with DPS checks

Because that’s where the spec falls super flat

[timber lagoon]

Venthyr prot

[bleak rapids]

@signal plover tbh all of them are pretty much equal in enjoyment for me 😛 Prot pally legion was tanking peak for me in terms of enjoyment

@heavy sail cool cool, thank you!

[signal plover]

At 3/10M youll be up against Inerva soon and pwarr and bdk help a bit there for add cheese. Benefits to both on artificer. You alrdy have a vdh for P3 of council.

Imo BRM or Pwarr

[heavy sail]

I think BrM is always a great pick for prog

Stagger makes life 1000x times easier

And yeah Prot VDH is a good tank duo

[bleak rapids]

Alright, some nice insights. Thanks alot guys!

[amber herald]

what makes prot/vdh good?

[heavy sail]

Good mix of survivability, utility, and damage.

[ocean bloom]

yeah they are both some of the worst melee dps

[amber herald]

any specific fight mechanics?

[ocean bloom]

but still great tanks

[amber herald]

just asking because that's my raids comp

[strong forum]

Pwar can make physical dmg portions of fights trivial

Both have good mobility

Vdh can take the heavy magic dmg portions which warri struggles with here and there

[amber herald]

that makes a lot of sense tbh

[fallow mortar]

Viscera of Coalesed hatred is one of our BiS, right?

[strong forum]

It's aight but not bis

[fallow mortar]

ah ok

[visual drift]

184 brutal vitality or 200unnerving focus as tank?

[sweet summit]

unnerving focus

[tardy parcel]

any advice on what to take? my weapon is a 216 sinsmasher (crit/mastery), rings are better than the ring, and trinkets are 200 heart of al'ar/213 gluttonous spike/207 stone legion heraldry

my gut is saying the emitter

[signal plover]

Emitter

[coarse kestrel]

necrolords still bad?

[tardy parcel]

Goin' for it. Thanks!

[sick sentinel]

only one vault item today, come on no junk

yup, junk lol

[orchid frigate]

😦

[sick sentinel]

no worries guys, is what it is

you couldn't pay me enough to even attempt thinking about doing m+ with tornadoes

[vestal moat]

226 Guttonous spike in box. Is it usuable in keys at all?

[golden violet]

is the slimy consumptive organ trinket any worth for prot war? does it heal enough?

[sick sentinel]

i'd wager no

[modern brook]

the bigger issue with it is that its a stam stick not a str stick

[sick sentinel]

anyone here switch to arms spec to get dps gear as a Prot warrior?

[modern brook]

the heal is useful just because we dont have any self sustain

[vague jetty]

roughish

[modern brook]

I give slimy organ 4/10

[hardy radish]

I know the chat is just overflowing with gear questions, but I'm assuming it's best to take a 13 ilvl weapon upgrade over like an 18 ilvl wrist upgrade, yeah?

[sick sentinel]

wait

icy viens mentions it

[golden violet]

tyvm for input 🙂

[modern brook]

@hardy radish yes

[sick sentinel]

https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/protection-warrior-pve-tank-gear-best-in-slot

it says 4th most noteworthy

[modern brook]

do you already have a 226 shield?

[vague jetty]

anybody have a general idea of the uptime of the anima emitter trinket?

I have a 220 vers/mast

[modern brook]

congrats on your upgrade

[tardy parcel]

lol

was gonna say, the 226 shield is a no-brainer if no shield

[sick sentinel]

i dunno how often it goes off, but lots

its a light blue circle and you just sit in it to get the buff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldJHUp9B-mI

this is a video of a guy with only the trinket equipped

By Beleriand (2,579 – 12·27) on 2021/01/07 (Patch 9.0.2)
Frustratingly, this trinket can proc when Charge is used, making for really awkward anima field positioning.

By Giro (467 – 1·5) 17 days ago (Patch 9.0.2)
Really good trinket, as long as you don't have to move around too much. As stated before, really good for tanks, warriors just be careful cause it can proc mid-charge/leap.

[vague jetty]

Yeah I know how it works I was just curious at average uptime

still running a 20 7 trinket feels bad

[sick sentinel]

i'm looking at it on wowhead and not seeing anything about that, but this is specifically mentioned in 2/4 comments on the item

the warrior charge thing

[heavy sail]

@vague jetty 226 shield

[modern brook]

yeah theres a lot more chances at a trinket upgrade you'll get this week than there are shield upgrades.

[vague jetty]

Probably, but man does it feel bad to have bad trinkets

[sick sentinel]

if i ever see a giga haste shield drop imma simp so hard

[heavy sail]

226 in your most important slot is going to safely be bis for the rest of the tier.

[sick sentinel]

like, a high ilvl haste one i mean

[vague jetty]

pretty sure the shield from artificer would be bis over it

but I take your point

[valid finch]

gonna make the wall leggo was wondering what slot shldr or back. Also why so much hate for Prot warrior?

[heavy sail]

I took shoulder.

[patent osprey]

shoulder

[amber herald]

we're too cool it's all jealousy

[heavy sail]

The hate for Prot Warrior is all psychological fuckery for how our ape brains sort things.

The function of something being the worst of a list but still great overall doesn’t compute for people.

[jaunty aspen]

same problem here everyone tells me prot war is shit this expansion

[vague jetty]

it feels like shit imo

but def not shit

[jaunty aspen]

really makes life hard to fon keys

[heavy sail]

Like if I said Prot Warrior was “the worst tank in the game” — it would be generally true, but it’s still very good.

It’s a fair bit different than saying “Survival is the worst DPS in the game”

[modern brook]

what are the affixes this week/

[vague jetty]

Explosive bursting

[jaunty aspen]

my heals dont wanna go with me +10 and upwards cause its too much work to heal me... as war.......

[vague jetty]

Tyrannical

[modern brook]

❤️ tyty

[heavy sail]

Oh gross explosive

[modern brook]

a) your healers are pussies b) make sure you're playing right

[vague jetty]

It’s not that bad

[modern brook]

explosive is a joke now tbh

AA's kill it

[vague jetty]

Better than necrotic or bolstering, spiteful, storming

[jaunty aspen]

now i have to do it in pug...

[modern brook]

Spiteful is the only affix i have a genuine problem with

[haughty sleet]

spare meat hook is actually decent for prot?

[heavy sail]

If your healers think a warrior is hard to heal

[jaunty aspen]

a lot more work to time there

[heavy sail]

They’re actually just shit tier healers

Or you’re playing very very wrong

[modern brook]

^

[jaunty aspen]

they prefer druid

[amber herald]

or they're disc priest

[modern brook]

thats a lol from me

[valid zodiac]

Rofl when I run my keys I had multiple times where I had to urge to tell the healer to just stop healing me and focus the group

Especially during pride

[heady plaza]

I feel like rshams heal a lot better than disc

[heavy sail]

Prot is one of the easiest to heal.

[jaunty aspen]

they they quite the opposite

they say

[heavy sail]

Disc isn’t a pure throughput healer, they rely on mitigating and predictive damage.

Shaman’s heal profile is completely different

So it often does feel like they heal more

[vague jetty]

that is a little less true in keys than m_

m+

but still has truth

[heady plaza]

I just know I go down q lot with my disc friend but feel ezmode with rshams

[vague jetty]

disc def lacks st throughput imo

compared to some other healers

[coarse kestrel]

shadow mend pretty strong heal

[jaunty aspen]

shaman or druid heal feels defo better in keys than priest

[heavy sail]

Yeah but like 6 casts and they’re in mana trouble

They aren’t meant to heal that way

[vague jetty]

well the problem is

they only have shadowmend

[amber herald]

it's because prot warrior also relies on mitigating and predicting damage

[vague jetty]

other healers have multiple things to handle st healing

[amber herald]

so we want a healer that well heals us a lot

[coarse kestrel]

I think disc is fine, but I'd rather rsham for the interrupt at least

[heavy sail]

Warrior is one of the easiest to heal for sure, but there’s a wide variance in skill from player to player

A bad warrior is a lot harder to heal than a bad monk

[tardy parcel]

and spirit link, and lust... and slow/stun totems...

[vague jetty]

I mean disc def is better overall in keys

But as far as just healing output fair enough

[heavy sail]

Than what? Shaman?

[vague jetty]

Yes

[heavy sail]

Because shaman is definitely better

I feel like in 99% of cases

Disc is not that great at pushing keys

[vague jetty]

Maybe if you are just looking at healing

[coarse kestrel]

a lot of bad disc players out there

[heavy sail]

Being the hardest to play proficiently by a wide margin will do that

[vague jetty]

Truth

[amber herald]

with disc healers I seem to hover around 60% hp forever

[tardy parcel]

Was gonna say lol. I'd rather gamble on a pug'd rshaman than a pug'd disc in nearly every case for a key

[coarse kestrel]

disc is one of those healers you have to be like derrice in cool runnings sitting in the bathtub practicing turns/mastering turns aka when damage comes on each pack/boss

[heavy sail]

Good holy paladins are the best

[valid finch]

also before i make The Wall, should I make Thunderlord first, this will be my first leggo sorry for the stupidness

[heavy sail]

Because tank heals are outstanding and they pump big damage

[amber herald]

not stupid, wall is a bit more general usage though

if you want raids and m+

[tardy parcel]

Not stupid 🙂 do you prefer running raids or mythic+? Thunderlord will generally benefit you more strongly in m+, but Wall is preferred for raids. Wall is more general use though - you can still get good benefit from it in keys

[heavy sail]

Wall is the best catch all legendary

TL is situationally better depending on pull size

The thing that makes disc so shitty for pushing keys

Is that there are loads of unpredictable damage mechanics

[vague jetty]

You do realize outside of rapture shields are like 3k right

[heavy sail]

And if people in your group are getting hit by avoidable damage, they have like 2 “oh shit” buttons to handle it

Except a volley that isn’t kicked or a storming tornado into a boss mechanic doesn’t do 3k lol

You’re talking about 6-15k damage all at once

[vague jetty]

You are missing the point

[heavy sail]

Give or take

Nah I think you are

[vague jetty]

Raid disc and m+ disc are two completely different play styles

[heavy sail]

In a situation where damage intake is unreliable I’d much rather take a healer with strong throughput CDs than one without.

Disc can absolutely be high value if you’re in a group of reliable high skill players with communication

But that’s never going to be the case when pugging

[vague jetty]

That is true, but you are solely talking about predicting damage as if you are playing disc in a raid, that becomes a little less important in keys outside of rapture. And you are correct, but the original point wasn’t pugging vs non pugging. It was doing keys

[sick sentinel]

generally speaking, i prefer shaman healers because they are op right now and the T totem that stops fear

priest, druid

[vague jetty]

If I were doing keys and putting a group together, I’d be taking a healer that is at the top of the skill level for the specific “bracket” I’m doing. And I’d rather have the priest tbh

[sick sentinel]

tremor totem, couldnt think of name, thats reallly handy on groups or boss that like to fear us

[vague jetty]

I agree If I’m pugging I’d take a shaman first

[sick sentinel]

but, it's age old question of do i take the class or player, pally might be able to do something that saves group, but might be safe with a better player who cant do those things but still make it work

[amber herald]

holy > disc for us

[sick sentinel]

hpal or hpriest

[amber herald]

priest

[valid finch]

ok so if im understanding this correctly make wall first to cover both, then craft TL so will both depending on the situation

[vague jetty]

I mean, its entirely up to what you wanna do.

I made wall first though

tbh I Just run wall in keys

[valid finch]

ok guys/gals thanks for the info

[signal plover]

I did TL first for m0s before raid was out. Then wall to r4 asap. Haven't run TL since

[orchid frigate]

am i the only one missing bfa dungeons?

[undone sun]

yes

[orchid frigate]

😦

[modern brook]

every time im in a NW with a pally

[solemn magnet]

I'm not missing tol dagor

[modern brook]

and i dont get bop for the chase down thing

[covert saffron]

Stone Legion Trinket, should this take priority in the vault over higher ilvl armour?

[modern brook]

I actually scream

probably not

re: SLG trinket

[solemn magnet]

Depends on the ilvl differences, but prolly not

[modern brook]

it depends on the upgrade slot + by how much

like I'd take SLG trinket over a +3 ilvl back

but not over a +3 ilvl chest

[misty tartan]

guy left before last boss DoS cuz we had 1 min remaining, he didnt wanna lower his rio score with a deplete, lol

[strong forum]

You can't lower your score with depletes

It only counts highest key done and then depending on timer it's an upgrade or not

[misty tartan]

I kindly whispered him and told him that, and that i wouldnt mind a 210 trinket, no reply 😦

[covert saffron]

thanks for the feedback, I thought as much but was wondering if all that versitility was a big bonus over ilvl

[red dock]

So the pins seem to contradict the icy veins guide. For m+ is unstoppable force the pick or ravager?

[amber herald]

ravager

[dry cairn]

Hey, dudes! What should I take here?

[strong forum]

Spike and get rid of leash

But those are all pretty terrible options

[solemn magnet]

What cloak do you have now? xD

[coarse kestrel]

i'd almost rather take the quantum device because hungering is pretty easy on heroic

[strong forum]

Whatever let's you get rid of both of your trinkets

Do it

[dry cairn]

the cloak

[strong forum]

Do whatever you can to get rid of your trinkets honestly

And enchant avoidance on your cloak instead

[dry cairn]

IQD is pretty good no? I agree that Leash is absolute trash, why is it even in the game

[strong forum]

Iqd is only decent if you can pair if with dps CDs and you're a dps

But you're tank, and 3min trinkets as tank are bad

And it's only good for dps gain

[dry cairn]

i'm tank, just switched to Fury for some quests

i dunno, IQD can give a massive heal

[strong forum]

Eww

[dawn imp]

the rng gods do not favour me at all

[dry cairn]

@strong forum why?

[strong forum]

You don't want a heal on a 3min CD, that's not even guaranteed

That's borderline useless

[dry cairn]

it's flexible

[strong forum]

Exactly that's one of the issues of iqd

If anything you always want the haste proc off of it

It's just a bad trinket for tanks

[dry cairn]

damn, used to think it's pretty decent for everyone

[dawn imp]

alright, 226 133/83 vers/crit ring > 200 haste/mastery? or settle for 223 mas/ver bracers over 213 has/vers bracers?

[dry cairn]

thx for the cloak enchant suggestion btw

[strong forum]

Ring tbh roein

It's semi useful for pvp

The bracers is a kick in the nuts tbh

[dawn imp]

yeah these past three weeks have been rough in the cache

rng is rng i g uess

always next week

would be nice to get a 226 shield

help a brother out blizz

[chilly brook]

Just when you think you got away from tanking a 5/10 guild messages you @strong forum

[dry cairn]

they should implement a system that lets you choose which slots you want more focus on

so that the Chest works more in your favor and actually offers something useful

[undone sun]

not more systems ⛔

[stark sage]

vault is w/e who cares
just fix m+ rewards

[chilly brook]

^^^^

This 1000%

I wouldn't even care as much about mythic plus rewards being more scarce if they weren't knee capped so hard

14s for a 207 is such a joke

15s for 210 is even worse

[dry cairn]

i've lost any hope that they'll address the loot system in m+

[jaunty aspen]

help me here got a 210 crit haste chest vs 213 vers crit + leech chest are the 3 ilevel worth loosing 51 haste would you do it=?

[stark sage]

for this season its doomed
but they are aware its shit, so hopefully next tier we get some sort of change that helps @dry cairn

[patent osprey]

The meme dream is alive

[sand condor]

this madman

[strong forum]

Huge

[patent osprey]

that legendary and when I maybe go NF later this week

Infinite damage

[strong forum]

Infinite || 5% || damage!

[patent osprey]

don't fight me nom! don't take away my fun

[strong forum]

Imagine having if seismic gave us 30% dmg increase

And said dmg would give us a shield

But that would be too strong

[modern brook]

😦

imagine if we could press avatar and out dps dps 😦

[strong forum]

And said shield ignored necrotic for some reason

[chilly brook]

Hey man burrs pumps

Big dam

[modern brook]

do herbs proc on ip/indom?

[chilly brook]

Idk

[modern brook]

feels like that could be big for overall

[mental scarab]

@patent osprey your gear make me cry🙋🏼

[chilly brook]

I need Plka to teach me how to fury

[patent osprey]

This is roughly what ill be running the next few weeks though for high keys

[chilly brook]

Or arms

Dude you're a fucking pumper

Holy shit

[patent osprey]

dude ... we killed sire in basically the worst pull for me ever. i got like every mechanic + massacre made me drop my jugg stacks multiple times

part of me wished we wiped on that pull

T_T

[strong forum]

no 233 shield

F

im afraid you cant do keys higher than 12 now

[patent osprey]

soon

either 3 more weeks of rbgs, where i get like 100 ish rating a week

or

SLG drops it

😄

[strong forum]

was about to say weekly cache, but your reset already happened

[silk edge]

Defensivly speaking the slg trinket is more valuable than anima emitter ?

Granting we try to get the value of it by staying in the pools ?

[strong forum]

it doesnt have rng involved with it

so it should be same amount of stats

over a 1min period

[chilly brook]

Tbh it's just a nice stat stick

And I love me some stat sticks

[silk edge]

K

[vague jetty]

I need better trinkets, I have SLG normal and al'ar heroic. It feels bad

[smoky wave]

184 scale and alar normal/spike nornal/194 hymnal normal 😅 not particularly doing well either. I feel like I get a lot of t of them, just not many that are good

[strong forum]

194 hymnal is big

[old flame]

I'm 90% sure I take the bracers but I might take vintage. thoughts?

for reference

Bracers have a socket

[hardy radish]

finally got barghast's leash

time to kill my guildies

[modern brook]

yeah bracers

socket and fatty ilvl

[old flame]

thanks. was just makin sure. I don't trust my mongo brain to read raidbots properly lol

[modern brook]

raidbots only sims damage

[old flame]

right. which is why I was curious about the vintage trink

[modern brook]

but sanguine vintage is a stinky trinket

a) its only defensive b) it gets its highest value when you need it the least

[old flame]

fair enough

[kindred raptor]

For venthyr warriors, the genral draven soulbind last row is available this week. I'm not sure which of his choices are best for tanking in m+

[vague jetty]

I thought nad was the play

[orchid frigate]

am i missing something but getting random conduit upgrades from venari feels like its gonna take forever before my bis conduits is where i want them

[vague jetty]

It is always your lowest ilevel chosen

If I believe

or rng between the lowest

[orchid frigate]

ugh

[vague jetty]

someone should confirm though

[orchid frigate]

im not gonna do that

[modern brook]

Just pretend 200 is highest: ^)

thats what i do

[sweet summit]

weak

[orchid frigate]

will do @modern brook

that route suits me

at least with socket i get some selection

if only i had some nice gear...

[sweet kayak]

does repentence from paladin works as sap?

[modern brook]

Are you asking if it shares a DR

[sweet kayak]

i mean, we used it on the third pack on Mist, ran through the mob and got in combat -.-

[modern brook]

ahhh

no repetence doesnt work for that skip

[smoky wave]

Yeah? I really need to get some data if it's that good.

[sweet kayak]

meh ok thanks 🙂

[modern brook]

sap, shroud , preist's mind sooth, imprison, and i thnk monks can Rop + paralyze

anything else will put you in combat

[strong forum]

Hymnal is huge dps trinket

hardly any trinket in the game doing more dps

[modern brook]

Trinkets are kind buns this exp so far tbh

they're all on use and do stupid shit

[sweet kayak]

Right, thanks Bull

[smoky wave]

Heh. Cheers. How does its healing match with spike? (and do I really care?)

[strong forum]

dont care

[vague jetty]

do you guys use draven of nadjira as prot (for those of you venth)

[smoky wave]

Great, scale and hymnal it is then, ta again Nom

[kindred raptor]

I'd like to know this as well

[chilly brook]

Isn't it really the same value either way

[modern brook]

0?

[chilly brook]

And honestly I'd say it's more valuable than scale at same ilvl from a pure defense standpoint since it lines up with gaps a little better because of the CD

Am I dummy? @modern brook I just turned down a 6/10 guild on the basis that they're 3 day

[modern brook]

honestly i wish i was a 3 day guild just cause covid has me bored and not doing anything

[chilly brook]

I'm still working

Like at the building that I work at not at home

[modern brook]

I mean same but like i go home after and maybe 3 hours later im like cool nothing to do

but nah honestly i think scheduling is the 2nd biggest reason to not join a guild

the first being raid banter

[safe fulcrum]

Quick question, I got a 207 stone legion and a 213 gluttonous spike. I got a 223 Field emitter. Which trinket would be better for tanking?

[modern brook]

Is the choice between stone and gluttonous AND field emitter

or would your 2nd trinket be emitter?

TBH id take gluttonous either way

207 Stone legion is so quickly replaceable

and you can get 220 from heroic iirc whihc is pretty straightforward to get to at this point

esp w/ all the nerfs

[safe fulcrum]

fair enough, I'll prob run spike and emitter then

[modern brook]

I still dont know if gluttonous is good tbh ive been running it for like 2 weeks

[safe fulcrum]

A lot of top prot run it so it seems to be pretty popular

[modern brook]

it might just be accessible though

Mythic hungering is fairly early on

[timber lagoon]

Seems to do decent damage and healing for what I have so i just let er rip

[modern brook]

and the fight isnt too complex once your team gets its shit together

[chilly brook]

You're assuming a lot from people

[modern brook]

yeah i mean fair

super excited for our wipefest on it this week tbh

we did like 8 pulls and it was not pretty lol

[solemn magnet]

Heres a log I got from last night with a 197 hymnal

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/pgBC8TDR9qfjwb27#fight=1&type=summary&source=9

[stark lion]

Is Splintered Heart of Al'ar any good?

[smoky wave]

Oh wow. Ok. That's tasty!

[chilly brook]

Reclear or prog?

[modern brook]

prog

honestly we're on reclear of SW and huntsman and our Shreikwing is uhhh

[chilly brook]

RIP

[modern brook]

lets just say its a 2 beer fight tbh

[chilly brook]

People always big dumb on Shriek

Idk why

Like it's not a super difficult fight

[modern brook]

I've come to the conclusion that they think the circles are jelly donuts

[chilly brook]

[modern brook]

only excuse for how often ppl are standing in them

[fallow hatch]

I see that most of the guides out there are in agreement on stat priority, but what was that actually based on? Any actual comparisons of TMI or DTPS, simulations of those, or just feelycrafting? I see that simc isn't being actively maintained for tank simming, but not sure if that's because of major deficiencies in the sim or what.. the default prot warrior APL looks really off to me, at least from a "mitigation is a priority" standpoint

[chilly brook]

You dont sim for tankyness

Too many variables

Also pretty sure someone big brained the math at one point or another

Seen spreadsheets at some point

Although tbh you're big braining stats too much

Nom or Mwahi would likely have the information you seek even if its largely not really all that helpful

[fallow hatch]

I'm not sure I agree with that, though.. I mean, raid fights are pretty scripted and tanks don't really get hit with a lot of RNG, so there's a lot of predictability, at least from an incoming damage perspective. Yeah, I do get that things like having to pop CDs when healers are distracted/dead/etc is a "variable", but should still be possible to get rough ideas of damage mitigation at least for a given fight

[chilly brook]

Sure go script the APL for every fight

[sweet summit]

there are zero accurate methods of simming "tankyness"

guides are based on math and brain

[modern brook]

Prot brain

[chilly brook]

It's still a mostly useless metric to essentially generate a stat weight for "tankyness"

Considering how valuable ilvl is

And we know from math that haste doesnt lose value

[fallow hatch]

I actually did toss something together to take a rough stab at Sludge... knowing that that's not a good "generic" fight to use because it's almost entirely melee.. but was interesting to see how it compared gear and stats

[sweet summit]

let me see 👀

im curious

[chilly brook]

Most fights in the raid are almost entirely melee

Js

[fallow hatch]

So what you're saying is, the best prot build is what a couple of people felt worked best for them... see, I like math a bit too much for that, also knowing that scaling changes

[modern brook]

??

[chilly brook]

Uhhh

Wat

Theres math behind this

[chilly brook]

I.e. haste doesnt lose value

Strength is our best stat

And that's mathed

It's not "feelycraft"

[fallow hatch]

OK, but same question.. mathed on what metrics? RPS? TMI? DTPS?

[modern brook]

Its worth noting that simming defensively is inherently useless by virtue of tanking being a fairly binary experience.

I cant not die to a mechanic any harder

as for the metrics @ionic fern has some spreadsheets iirc

[fallow hatch]

True, but being "spiky" tends to be a bit dangerous (and drain healers), and high EHRPS isn't a great thing either

[chilly brook]

Ehrps isn't a metric of not being spiky

[deft vessel]

better, worse?

[chilly brook]

Nor is dtps

[sweet summit]

id take spiker over vicera

[modern brook]

i would say better than viscera

[fallow hatch]

No, TMI is, but you can be not spiky but smoothly taking more damage than necessary/optimal

[chilly brook]

You can "spike" and still have low numbers on those

[sweet summit]

great minds think alike

[modern brook]

Prot brain

[deft vessel]

cheers then, ima swap to spike, i like it better anyway xD

[chilly brook]

Tf is TMI

[modern brook]

a metric some guy made that tries to quantify tankiness iirc

there was a reason its relatively ignored but frankly idr it

[jagged pier]

the only metric is your play dont @ me

[fallow hatch]

Yep, pretty much. https://sacreddutydotnet.wordpress.com/theck-meloree-index-standard-reference-document/

[modern brook]

and "some guy' is probably underselling him

[chilly brook]

With these fights

[sweet summit]

who even is theck

[chilly brook]

You spike because you dont have something available

Not because of your stats

[modern brook]

hes the first half of the theck meloree index :^)

[sweet summit]

[fallow hatch]

Pally tank theorycrafter, IIRC

[chilly brook]

Not to mention

Stuff like this goes out the window

When your raid makes you take more damage

Because they can't do HD right

[modern brook]

:^(

also the value of the stats themselves are incredibly volatile - the formula for armors contribution to DR is based on whats hitting you

[chilly brook]

Your survival and how easy you are to heal is very much tied to how you play much less tied to what you're wearing

[modern brook]

so 1 point of armor != the same amount of DR across every similar fight

where as 1 point of weapon DPS == the same maount of damage across every similar fight

[mighty valley]

i guess the funny thing is people are responding to tukutae by saying both "trying to math out the value of stats for survivability is pointless" and also "i have faith that the stat priority i've been following is based on math that someone did sometime"

[chilly brook]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If you REALLY need to see the math go ask Mwahi or Nomeratur

[modern brook]

BAsically the point is that trying to become the tankiest doesnt matter enough to try and figure out how to break down the math to actually sim it for something reasonably useable

[chilly brook]

But uhhh

They've not really ever given me reason to question them on every single minute detail

Especially since when I die it's not even because I did something wrong in raid

Its cuz some ungabunga cant stand in a red soak circle

Or cant make basic shapes

[modern brook]

theres a difference between understanding a given stats impact on survivability and trying to perform a sim that says "this spread of stats will minimize my damage intake in any given situtation because of this single statistic"

[fallow hatch]

Now you're just using a strawman argument

[modern brook]

🤷‍♂️

[fallow hatch]

There are recommended talent builds for fights, but people don't mock that as being useless because fights are different.. they recognize that different talents (and builds) are appropriate for different situations

[chilly brook]

I mean

AM is basically the go to for all fights

In raid

Except for 1-2

And the reason you go Bolster is the same reason why haste never loses value

[visual drift]

which one should i use, violence ot focus?

[modern brook]

Vitality and fuel are roughly equal iirc

[chilly brook]

Stats and talents are completely different things as well my guy

[modern brook]

focus is better imo

read the q wrong sorry

[feral gale]

are there any resources on how blocking actually works in practice? guides say it should reflect your shield's block rating but in a raid scenario i block (and crit block) for far more than it says

[modern brook]

Blocking is a 2nd armor reduction basically

[fallow hatch]

Of course they are, but let me guess... the answer on talent builds (and conduits, for that matter) is just "because someone said so"

[modern brook]

You have a % change to block, and the blocked damage is based on your shield's block value

IIRC it simplifies block/(block+k)

[visual drift]

i use the bolster talent so focus would be smarter but the heal from violence isn't that low imo

[modern brook]

where k is a magic constant that scales with patches

[feral gale]

okay so blocked value is actually a hit post armor damage reduction?

[modern brook]

Idr the order i believe all reduction happens at the same time

[chilly brook]

No you literally only swap talents in raid if you need more block

Its that's binary

[feral gale]

it just doesn't jive when it says say 1200 block value but im blocking 6k+ in a raid scenario

[modern brook]

ie if you take 100 damage and armor reduces it by 25% and block reduces it by 25%

[chilly brook]

And haste produces the same result

[mighty valley]

how do you determine that you "need more block" as opposed to "need more shield wall"

[chilly brook]

It ups our block uptime

[tacit smelt]

mythic raid team fell apart, might fuck around and go full necro lord

[modern brook]

you're taking blockable damage for longer than you can keep shiled block up

[chilly brook]

That's a fairly easy question to answer, how often are you getting meleed

[wanton condor]

more haste -> faster shield block CD + more rage

[feral gale]

@inland helm I believe at ~28% haste is when sblock becomes blanketable, it goes down to 12 sec cd at that point assuming 1.5 sec gcd

[mighty valley]

right, the point is, that "feels" right, you haven't math'd out the fight to figure out total damage reduction or anything

[chilly brook]

Wat

[fallow hatch]

A lot of responses are turning into "well, this is what this stat does".. nobody's arguing what they do, the question is, how can you determine relative value

[modern brook]

I feel like your point is that how do you know shieldblock uptime is more DR than a 2nd shieldwall

[fallow hatch]

Or at least, how is that being determined when everyone just quotes "H>V>C>M"

[chilly brook]

You're going to get more damage reduction from more block than more shield wall

That's pretty basic math

[mighty valley]

right, that sounds like it's probably true. have you done that math? probably not, right?

[chilly brook]

8 second of 50% reduction every maybe 1-1.5 minutes as compared to 15-30 seconds of 40-80% reduction

[feral gale]

you can consider that haste is 34 points per % and vers is 40, and if you want to squish it to the % of DR that's 80 rating per % of DR, so haste ends up being the better value. Plus most of our rotational abilities are hasted. It sounds pretty no-brainer tho

[chilly brook]

Every 2 minutes

[modern brook]

the point is that you literally cant do the math

[chilly brook]

I just did the math for you

[stark lion]

Looking for some trinket feedback.
I think I can finally get rid of the Quantum Device.

My common setups are:
Spike + Decanter (w/Thunderlord) for AoE/M+
Darkmoon + Insignia for big haste (w/The Wall) for Single Target

Not sure if Splintered Heart of Al'ar fits in to any of these, or if I should mix up my usual setups with something I missed.

[modern brook]

More shieldwalls could arguably be better ona fight in which you only eve take damage once every 4 minutes

[wanton condor]

quick q: I vaguely recall back in legion or so there was a cap on how long you could chain active mitigation. Is that gone now?

[mighty valley]

gdfhbgldsfgb two people are literally saying "this is easy math" and "you can't do that math" at the same time

that's the whole point tuk is making

[modern brook]

🤷‍♂️ if you guys are choosing to ignore the overarching theme go wild

Tuk asked "why dont we sim defensively" we said "because there are too many variableS"

the math for what make the stat priority is documented

the math for what minimizes our damage taken based on metrics that dont meana nything is too volatile and frankly pointless to consider

[chilly brook]

Still exists for certain specs

We kinda ignore it because CDs and bolster

[fallow hatch]

Well, if the only thing that matters is whether or not I'm dead, sounds like I can just find better healers rather than putting any effort into my own gearing

[chilly brook]

So we can't really every stack past a point anyways

[modern brook]

also because its generally better to let the SB run most of the duration before we reapply it to avoid sbing nothing during casts/taunt swaps

[chilly brook]

The effort is super simple, ilvl>>>>>>>haste>vers

[feral gale]

but you're arguing over minutae rather than taking the spirit of the guidelines

[wanton condor]

I figure as haste stacks up we can probably get super long chains but yeah, bolster was my worry

[modern brook]

yeah sounds right to me

[feral gale]

it's a silly indefensible position

[wanton condor]

as you can do what, 2x SB bolster 2xSB

[chilly brook]

And your effort should be way more focused on what you can do with your toolkit than shifting around stats

You going from 2% vers to 5% isn't going to save you

[signal plover]

https://c.tenor.com/f0LFwsk4G_UAAAAM/the-simpsons-abe-simpson.gif

[fallow hatch]

Well, the guidelines are easy, but that still doesn't answer what actually led to them, which also leads to other decisions for things like choosing gear from vaults.. because choices between two pieces of gear aren't always as simple as the stat priority

[chilly brook]

Again

[feral gale]

Assuming you're running The Wall you'll get more shield wall uses than needed for a single encounter anyway

[chilly brook]

If you would like to know

Ask the person who made them

I.e. Mwahi

It wont change your play

But you can still ask

[fallow hatch]

I mean, DPS have it easy there.. they just sim it and don't complain about "well, that sim didn't account for the fact that I got chains 3 times, etc etc, too many variables"

[chilly brook]

We have it way easier wdym lmao

We literally just equip.ilvl

Tf

[wanton condor]

tbf most dps just does ilvl these days as well

[feral gale]

that is entirely different. a good raider doesn't speak on getting mechanics whether or not it affected their dps. mythic raiders do mechanics** and maintain uptime

[fallow hatch]

I've got DPS in my group equipping lower ilvl gear because they're chasing secondaries.. again, probably based on a guide

[chilly brook]

[feral gale]

If they're not simulating, your dps are stupid

the end

[chilly brook]

So just because some guide is wrong or someone else is misled

Means everything else is

Despite everyone else having success with it

I've done nothing except for really follow what's been written

And yet I've never been the problem in my group

[fallow hatch]

That's kinda the opposite point that I'm making, tbh.. we say DPS should sim for DPS, but tanks shouldn't sim for DTPS or anything else. I would at least say that different gear decisions will change DTPS on a given fight with a given APL

[feral gale]

are you trying to debate the existence of variables or something? of course that's true

[fallow hatch]

You and I tank very differently, since I focus on mitigation.. I parse my 90s on healing numbers, for example.. spending more on IP than revenge

[feral gale]

but it's simply too multivariate to be worth your time (or anyone elses)

[hollow island]

a 13 ilvl upgrade on shield is valued more than a 13 ilvl upgrade on gloves eh?

[signal plover]

Yes

[strong forum]

absolutey

[strong forum]

cringe

[jagged pier]

100% yes

[strong forum]

focusing on max healing parses is very cringe

[jagged pier]

that is huge cringe

[mighty valley]

everyone's debating the accuracy of stat prios based on math that none of us are going to look at, should probably knock it off lmao

[jagged pier]

ILVL

[signal plover]

No but then how will we prove our opinions

[feral gale]

just follow your feelings like luke skywalker

[signal plover]

Whoever gets last word is clearly correct

[feral gale]

overwhelming advice to not follow current course but dude keeps pushing a rope and cites incorrect play as reasoning

[fallow hatch]

So the opinion here is that mitigation is pointless and tanks should just do as much damage as possible?

[undone sun]

what

[strong forum]

the opinion is playing optimally

[midnight stone]

cant die if you kill the mob first

[strong forum]

and once you got your mitigation on point where youre nobodys problem, you max out dmg

[jagged pier]

^^

[signal plover]

I don't rly understand what the argument is about tbh, since these choices were actually mapped/mathed out over the course of alpha/beta and then continue to be shown true in practice by folks actively playing the spec

[fallow hatch]

Has anyone published that anywhere or can speak to what it was based on?

"math" on its own isn't much of an answer unless something in particular is being measured

[signal plover]

Yeah, I'm sure Mwahi can speak about it with you if he finds the time sometime

[strong forum]

or cares enough

[signal plover]

If you're preaching healing parses you may not be taken seriously here though, just fair warning.

[undone sun]

even if you care too much about damage parses, you wont be taken seriously

[signal plover]

Fair

[strong forum]

healing parses are an irrelevant metric

[mighty valley]

you should care the exact right amount

[strong forum]

if you dont mitigate, and only spam IP

you heal more

[signal plover]

Nom said it, it's about playing optimally

[feral gale]

after mechanics/healing/mitigation is handled, DPS is EVERYONES priority in an encounter across the board. faster kill = less healing, less mitigating, less everything. maybe you're missing that point?

[undone sun]

damage parses aren't just for flexing, one can find out if they're playing properly by not being in the grey or blue

it's not all or nothing

healing parses are asinine

[signal plover]

Yeah, proper play with reasonable gear should net a purple parse in most situations

[fallow hatch]

Generally parsing purple for DPS as well, not that it matters

[signal plover]

It does matter

[undone sun]

🆒

[signal plover]

I'm just curious what the counterpoint was here originally. Did you present math to support that a stat priority other than what's recommended was more beneficial to a certain situation?

[fallow hatch]

But on a fight like sludge where our healers are very busy both due to steady tank damage, raid damage, etc... staying alive can be "busy" at times. I don't see why keeping IP up is seen as a bad thing, though if you aren't paying attention and overcap it that's wasted rage for sure

[jagged pier]

i mean its very predictable damage

[stark lion]

Nobody said IP is a bad thing.

[fallow hatch]

No, I was simply asking where the math that generated the stat priority came from, and the detailed answer so far is "spreadsheets"

[jagged pier]

thats were they came from

[signal plover]

Yes, there were literal spreadsheets

[fallow hatch]

(where it came from, given that it's obviously not coming from sims - and saying that word led to a bunch of attacks)

[signal plover]

Most of this happened in the alpha/beta channel like, almost a year ago at this point

Basically Sense and Mwahi smoked the devil's lettuce in a van by the river and emerged with stat priority tablets

[patent osprey]

HOA 15, so I gotta say, since im venthyr, if I was NF, this meme build would do alot of dam

as venthyr it already does quite a bit

[signal plover]

Gib meme build

Wot do

[stark lion]

Oh hey, it's Plka. I watch your streams. thanks for helping me not suck as much I used to.

[patent osprey]

Seismic Reverb with these talents

@stark lion Hai ^.^

This week, Imma being playing around with different legendaries in keys. I made a TL rank 2 and seismic Rank 2

And Ill be swapping covs this week after wednesday too ^.^

[stark lion]

to NF?

[patent osprey]

so big mongo dam prot war inc

either NF or kyrian not 100% yet

but probably NF at least to try it

an dif I don't like it ill change to kyrian the week after

[feral gale]

did you prog as kyrian Pika? I want to go venth but kyrian seems super big for prog

[patent osprey]

I progd as venthyr

[woeful vine]

i liked kyrian for the pots. the spear was a good get out of there tool. i just switched to venth to try it out

[patent osprey]

Ive always been venthyr

[stark lion]

The most frustrating part of Kyrian was what the spear DOESN'T tether.

[patent osprey]

u see I probably wouldn't use spear like that, so it makes me not want to go it. I don't think i'd spear a pack twice either

[stark lion]

I'm always like, "really? THIS GUY is immune?! da fuq"

[patent osprey]

I'd only ever spear at the start of a pull

so then I wouldn't be kiting

[woeful vine]

the spear was really just useful for necrotic, and the bears in HoA

[ember marsh]

yeah spear is really good for m+

[patent osprey]

And if it came back up in the pull, id probably save it for next pull for aggor

Therefore, I think NF might be the play for me

[ember marsh]

venthyr for prio target i suppose

[feral gale]

kyrian pot also clears necrotic

[stark lion]

Someone tell me what trinkets to run

[zenith monolith]

What does Venthyr give apart form execute ?

[patent osprey]

no venthyr give slike nothing for prot

just gives u a little more ST dam

[ember marsh]

general draven gives some DR iirc

[patent osprey]

the DR blows

[signal plover]

@patent osprey when u say meme-build, whatcha referencing?

[patent osprey]

if ur under 40% as a prot war, ur probably dead

[stark lion]

Looking for some trinket feedback.
I think I can finally get rid of the Quantum Device?

My common setups are:
Spike + Decanter (w/Thunderlord) for AoE/M+
Darkmoon + Insignia for big haste (w/The Wall) for Single Target

Not sure if Splintered Heart of Al'ar fits in to any of these, or if I should mix up my usual setups with something I missed.

[patent osprey]

@signal plover I put it up there if u scroll up, but basically a seismic reverb build with AM

and BSC

[signal plover]

Kk

With show of force as well I'm assuming?

[patent osprey]

ye

Show of force and weave Revenges with TC

imma stream that build tonight ^.^ if anyone is interested

[signal plover]

Trinks?

Raid 2nite kek

[patent osprey]

anima field emitter + overwhelming power crystal

[jagged pier]

you stream when i sleep 🤷

[strong forum]

i sleep when you stream

idk why i keep teasing plka

i cant explain it

😦

[signal plover]

Can scale drop in arms spec?

[strong forum]

no

[signal plover]

Damn, I think I'ma stick to vaulting as prot then

[amber herald]

I went NF for the same reason

if I'm going to press a button every minute it might as well knockdown 20 times as well

[stoic summit]

What trinkets would you use between: 223 decanter, 216 phial, 220 stone legion, and 213 sheet music

[patent osprey]

yeah and might as well give met he most rage right

[amber herald]

It really helps on the caster packs in DOS

and the spinny ones as they're always either casting discharge or channeling spinning up

[astral crystal]

i just spear for dmg and rage

don't really use it for kites

that's what group is for

[amber herald]

depends though I'm dwarf so the potion is less important for me

potion is pretty damn good

[wanton condor]

I use it not quite on pull but right before mobs who like to jump start leaping around

[patent osprey]

then u might as well ancient aftershock, does more dam + rage i believe

[wanton condor]

so like 3s in on a prator

[patent osprey]

its more kryian pot vs. the fox thing

[wanton condor]

incredibly useful against them and the guys in NW IMO

[amber herald]

fox is bis for the corridor in DOS outside of ardenweald

[patent osprey]

U actually want the prator to jump away at the start, U can spell reflect his first ranged hit and it does big dam to him

[amber herald]

worth going purely for that 😛

[dawn geode]

yall stop, making NF more appealing by the day

[wanton condor]

oh, does he not do that if he gets yoinked back?

[astral crystal]

but i enjoy my kyrian pot

[wanton condor]

I'm relatively fresh on my prot

[patent osprey]

if hes in melee he doesn't do his range ability sigma

[wanton condor]

gotcha, thanks

I will not do that anymore then

[patent osprey]

but when u dont have reflect up then u wouldn't want him to jump away

usually just storm bolt him when he jumps the 2nd time

[amber herald]

you can still taunt in soulshape by the way

mildly interesting fact

[wanton condor]

just stormbolt -> charge there, assuming he's close to the last standing?

[patent osprey]

u just want to stay in melee of him sigma as much as you can, but let him jump whenever u have spell reflect up

[mighty cairn]

is it worth taking a different talent to have Devastate for explosive bombs? I'm trying to run around and grab them but sometimes it's awkward if my auto attack comes out slow and I don't have cds

[mighty valley]

That could make sense, I usually just step away and Heroic Throw though

who am I kidding, I let the healer do it

[mighty cairn]

ye I've been trying to snag most of them with heroic throw but sometimes the range restriction is awkward

and the people I usually run with say it's the tank's job ^_^

[amber herald]

it really isn't, especially not warrior

[mighty cairn]

which makes kiting packs awkward

[amber herald]

it's the healers job

grab them situationally when you can

but you aren't supposed to be running around gathering them all up

[mighty cairn]

ye makes sense

the affix just feels super annoying

the amount of overhead added to big double/triple pulls is a pain

[mighty valley]

bursting/explosive does not make me excited to do big pulls

[patent osprey]

thats just wrong LOL

its everyones job

[amber herald]

I did say grab them when you can

[patent osprey]

i focus so much on orbs if Im doing the keys seriously. Heroic throw is bae

[mighty cairn]

if I have the bomb targeted when I Revenge, does it still go through

or only single target skills

[patent osprey]

I can kill like 75% of them in the dung if trying to

[modern brook]

your auto attack will kill it regardless

[mighty cairn]

I honestly didn't know heroic throw had a minimum range until the first time we saw explosive lol

[modern brook]

but no it wont hit, iirc

[amber herald]

I mainly run with a priest who grabs them so if it's different it's different

just don't tell him (pls)

[mighty valley]

I hit the convenient ones but it seems real easy to our druid

bunch of ranged instacasts that pop them

[vestal moat]

Starting M SLG this week. Anyone think going Forgelite Prime might be decent? Last trait unlocked this week seems juicy for it.

[glacial skiff]

Yo, can someone answer for us fury guys. Any TC’r. Do you dodge/block/parry during a procced bladestorm with signet?

Could’ve swore that answer was a no.

[modern brook]

yo do

its not a proper channel

well dodge/block im less ure of but block u do.

[strong forum]

you can block during it

dodge parry probably aswell

since you also autoattack during it

[modern brook]

yeah bladestorms not an action like casting or channeling a spell

[glacial skiff]

Weird. I’ve been using thunderlord for keys when I should’ve been using that lol.

[modern brook]

It doesnt proc off ravager