don't get me wrong, I like thunderlords, but the wall felt more effective in all the 15s I did ¯_(ツ)_/¯
#protection
deft vessel
undone jacinth
yea because that’s not impacted by the player and scenario at all is it
thorn kayak
Theoretically we can just take your log Jakey, use shield block count, multiply by 5 and see how much it would generate if that is comparable to generation of Demo
undone jacinth
that doesn’t tell you how many extra demos he’s got
lofty widget
do we need to know how many extra you get? in the example i gave youd need 51 extra DS, my total for the dungeon WITH TL was 62
unique shale
my runs got easier when i got TW lego cause i could use SW more plus more rage on SS
undone jacinth
I didn’t see your example but yeah if the numbers are that insane it doesn’t matter
jagged pier
thats why im asking for logs from somene who runs it and is probably simiplar skill yes different players etc but its the best we can do till i actually run TLs in a dungeon
undone jacinth
no you are spot on
thorn kayak
Chimi in this log you use TL right?
undone jacinth
wall has given you like twice as much rage as TL would
lofty widget
yes
jagged pier
the closest i have is a 15 haloss and i generate less rage
jagged pier
comapred to his halls run
lofty widget
i am using TL btw
lofty widget
so the gap would be even bigger?
undone jacinth
yeah
the gap is gonna be probably like 3x
when you factor kiting etc
and downtime
thorn kayak
Exactly, so those 411 SB would generate 5 more rage per cast = 2055 extra rage
The Demo shout generated in this run 2480 in total. If you would cast 11 less Demos Wall is already ahead, but we can say without TL it would be more then 11 demos
Looking at Chimi's log
deft vessel
undone jacinth
we don’t need any log comparison
log comparison is worse than looking at chimmis log
unique shale
:/
undone jacinth
it’s affected by more variables
thorn kayak
I understand what Diruuo is trying to tell us! Wall users in general waste more rage 😄
undone jacinth
lol
deft vessel
the rage gain difference is 200 over the whole mists run, in favor of thunderlords, the difference in demo shout casts 16 more for the TL user (38 vs. 22), in an AoE heavy dungeon (mists), on a fortified week, even in the best case for thunderlord it's generated 200 extra rage over the entire run
¯_(ツ)_/¯
to be fair, that is verifiable in most logs
thorn kayak
unique shale
deft vessel
moral of the story - use whatever the hell you want
deft vessel
how so?
unique shale
deft vessel
that's what's in the log ¯_(ツ)_/¯
deft vessel
I should maybe add a footnote that it produced less usable rage due to wasted rage
undone jacinth
he cast 251 shield slams
deft vessel
TL user (top row)
undone jacinth
that’s 1200+ rage
deft vessel
wall user (top row0
undone jacinth
if he had wall he would generate twice as much rage
yes I’m telling you those stats are the wrong ones if you understand the numbers
unique shale
deft vessel
yes, correct, thus my point from not too long ago - that demo shout gives its rage even without thunderlord
undone jacinth
if you take the demo difference as fact
overcapping rage is a player problem nothing else
deft vessel
while the rage from lack of the wall doesn't exist without the wall
undone jacinth
wall is giving at least twice as much rage as TL
thorn kayak
Dolphin I would not say 'twice as much' but for sure more 😄
undone jacinth
if you take chimmis log the bonus rage he got from wall over TL would equate to 50 revenges
it is twice as much literally in that log
in chimmis log it’s more than twice
it could be close to 3x
deft vessel
well, it's why I got two logs to compare averages across both
lofty widget
omw to make TW
deft vessel
but i digress, you get my point
undone jacinth
yeah every log is showing it’s 2 or more that we’ve seen so far
thorn kayak
Twice as much is a premise that he casts 16 Demos less, but that is just a rough estimate.
deft vessel
that's you oversimplifying data dolphin
players don't play in perfect conditions, and dungeon conditions themselves are not perfect
lofty widget
you dont need to compare anything when you can calculate the amount of rage you would have gained using TW/TL
turbid horizon
Wall > TL
undone jacinth
guys there is no scenario where you can cast twice as many demos unless you have some infinite haste buff
deft vessel
I am agreeing with you my dude
undone jacinth
pikaz extra demos is about as high as you can get
turbid horizon
Shield wall is a stronger cd, the rage gen is comparable, wall better :)
undone jacinth
yes and if you agree with that and you also agree that a cpm on shield slam above 10 is expected
then it’s twice as much rage
at a minimum
in my view what is being shown is that the rage gen isn’t comparable
deft vessel
indeed, not to mention it's more "regularly usable" rage (generated by the wall)
undone jacinth
yeah if your TL gives you a reset at the pack end you just haven’t gained rage at all
lofty widget
the rage gen is more readily available from TW, but not everyone uses SW as aggresively as they could
so it is sometimes wasted
deft vessel
and not to mention the fact that it makes shield wall much more available, which we're not even discussing here cus the topic is rage generation, in general teh wall is very flexible, I like it
undone jacinth
that’s only wasting wall and not the rage though
even when not using shield wall in your log you’d have 50 extra revenges
which is a ton of oversell dps
deft vessel
and i have both at rank 4 and i've used both ¯_(ツ)_/¯
but yeah, again, I stuck to the wall for my 15s and in general for higher keys
it's just more flexible in my eyes
¯_(ツ)_/¯
I use thunderlord in torghast
undone jacinth
yeah I just flat think it’s significantly better but I still tow the preference line because I know flaming TL makes people mad lol
lofty widget
if only TL was uncapped, THEN it would be the best
undone jacinth
haha tru
deft vessel
still only in AoE but yeah
so for raids still the wall prolly, but for dungeons hands down
alas, was nerfed in beta
undone jacinth
then it’s just everyone else’s target cap you’d have to worry about
deft vessel
target caps are such a freaking bummer man, I'm still annoyed at it, why do some specs just get no target caps
like
in what world does that make sense lol
you eitehr cap everyone if you want to dissuade big pulls, or you don't
it's just such a weird decision
i think what triggers me most as a tank though is....that i have NO FUCKIGN CONTROL OVER WHAT GETS LESS DAMAGE
thankfully still haven't had aggro issues really, but yeah, it's triggering
lofty widget
i always thought it was based on range
so i try to position myself close to what i want to take the most dmg
undone jacinth
don’t think so
deft vessel
maybe? I don't think it is tho
lofty widget
i have no clue
undone jacinth
if it is it’s still a nightmare trying to coordinate it
bolstering dos hey guys here’s 18 mobs can you just dps them evenly XD
Hunter immediately kills 5 of them
rip key
deft vessel
hey now I almost timed a dos 15 on the tyrannical bolstering week
only reason i didn't is because hunter died on the first volley of the mueh zela fight
missed by 3 seconds
undone jacinth
yowch
deft vessel
was such a "NOOOOOOOOOOOOO" moment
xD
oh it's not even 3 seconds
Over time by 00:00:02.382 (0.1%).
deft vessel
he was so consistently good throughout the dungeon tho
and then just died to the first volley of mechanics (the left/right/front mechanic)
got hit by one of them, insta death cus tyrannical 15, no cres to get him
like literally the first half arena hit he died to
lol
undone jacinth
yea sometimes brain lag
if I’m tired after raiding I do sleep on mechanics sometimes
undone jacinth
then on like Saturday I’m just a ninja doing everything perfect
deft vessel
i was like "oooookay, time for bed then, not doing more" was a bit demoralizing xD
undone jacinth
yeah sucks
dunno why but I just don’t give a shit if I miss key timers this season lol
deft vessel
but is fine, got fancy ginormous impractical death elemental mount now, all is well
anyway, brb
undone jacinth
people complain about it being a reskin but it’s pretty cool imo
deft vessel
I mean, I'm much happier with it compared to the danger noodle of awakened season
jolly thistle
I like smaller mounts. It’s taller than a longboi and doesn’t fit through most doors
but the skin is pretty cool
jolly thistle
Is it? If it would be for all +20 then maybe I’d agree
ionic fern
I diddn't go too deep into the discussion but as i understood it's Thunderlords vs The Wall AVG rage gain in dungeons?
The Wall wins out there. Thunderlords excells at 3 targets, anything below that it starts lacking.
amber herald
Isn't there an extra layer with covenant choice as well? TC lines up spear with demo shout for more damage, but for venthyr the wall means more rage for condemn
jagged pier
I diddn't go too deep into the discussion but as i understood it's Thunderlords ...
fair enough just wanted logs to compare I knew u ran TL is all I know a lot of other factors add up to it
frail wyvern
Anyone know how mythic sun King compares to hungering destroyer difficulty?
jagged pier
should probably be your 4th boss if your heals and burst dps is up to it
frail wyvern
We killed hungering last night, going sun King on Sunday. Its just a dps check mainly for the shields right? Our heals should be fine
jagged pier
heals have some checks as well
ebon hound
Just gotta keep it very clear when everyone will use their cooldowns
have a plan on how to kill infusers if you can't skip them
jagged pier
we didnt even consider that it was we skip or we wipe XD
ebon hound
yeah, our first kill on Sun King we killed infusers, but definitely easier to skip now with more ilvl
frail wyvern
Such a boring fight though, not really looking forward to it
Just hope we don't take 2 weeks to down it 😂
frail wyvern
Thats good, standing around waiting for spawns on HC is boring af
ebon hound
you'll cherish every moment 2 vanquishers aint shoving bleeds up your behind
jagged pier
i have a paladin for that
ebon hound
bumhole protector
jagged pier
he heals all fight picks up the bleeds in the end and dies
i just tank everything else
pretty fun
opal kettle
Just looking for some insight how you feel prot stacks up with brew. Ive been playing brew but thinking of switch to prot. My monk just feels so squishy this expac. Basically a hc guild that runs 10 to 14s. Wondering how the warr beefiness and threat is atm
heavy sail
Just played with the worst warrior of my life
+9 key, finished with 1.4K DPS overall
ionic fern
Sounds like me,.
undone jacinth
it was the leaper guy from that forum post wasn’t it
heavy sail
I dunno man
undone jacinth
whirlwinding and leaping away lol
heavy sail
But I wish I had the unbridled confidence to queue a +9 with literally 0 knowledge of my spec and no legendary
He was like 204 ilvl too
I’m just in awe
undone jacinth
don’t need a Lego but probably should know how to play a bit
+9 is probably still like learning level now though I guess
heavy sail
It’s more like a litmus test.
Like, it takes maybe a few hours on an alt to get a legendary slot filled.
And getting to 204 before crafting one legendary is wild
heavy sail
+9 seems beyond just learning I would say, it’s harder than a +10 really.
But I dunno
Was a weird experience
undone jacinth
well I regular see dps in 7s doing 1-2k dps so I assume that’s now filtering up to 9s due to ilvl increases
heavy sail
@opal kettle having played a lot of both so far in SL, I do feel like BrM is better in a lot of ways. Warriors definitely have a more tanky feel in raids where the encounters are more closely tailored to their skillset, but I’ve had no complaints about either being “not tanky enough” up to early mythic CN.
The issue I find myself facing occasionally on the BrM while raiding is just that you get this feeling of “oh well, just pump me full of heals I guess —“ because you just run out of buttons to press.
In any other context you would just bail and rely on your mobility to drop stagger, but that’s not really an option during raid encounters.
opal kettle
Thats what i feel like pb outta charges cb on cd im screwed
heavy sail
Juggling absorb trinkets helps smooth that over a lot, plus you have talent choices like BnW and Healing Elixir that are terrific.
Even in perma red stagger I’m not usually at much of a risk of dropping
strong forum
whirlwinding and leaping away lol
He's a chad
heavy sail
And the only fight where that really happens is sludgefist
strong forum
He's playing the game like the devs want him to
Don't listen to toxic theory crafters
orchid frigate
haha
heavy sail
But anyway, when it comes to BrM vs Prot it really just depends.
Both are good in different ways
strong forum
They create a toxic amount of checks notes
Playing gudder
!
heavy sail
BrM is capable of a lot more damage
Prot is capable of mitigating a lot more damage
You mean to tell me I’ve been playing fury wrong this whole time?
I really just need to use leaper and 1-button whirlwind?
gaunt crane
if hunters trap to skip a pack and fd they wont chase right?
heavy sail
My third eye is open 
FD resets aggro
Only for the Hunter though so if anyone else gets it rip
Freezing trap also doesn’t generate threat anyway
orchid frigate
is freezing trap hard cc?
heavy sail
So if you’re talking about like a pathing skip feign death isn’t even necessary
gaunt crane
we just disbanded over this 😄
we skipped but at the end of cc they started chasing us
undone jacinth
u do get threat if you run near a trap
orchid frigate
nice
heavy sail
Yes
undone jacinth
well u get combat
heavy sail
The trap itself doesn’t generate it though
strong forum
"Heroic leap generates +3000% aggro" leaper meta soon
undone jacinth
trap can proc burrs though
orchid frigate
hmmf seems impossible to do a big pull in start of spires in a pug without voice
ionic fern
Two things i say.
"LoS on red"
"I got first interrupts on Goliaths".
undone jacinth
bring a shaman :p
orchid frigate
where do you put down red?
ionic fern
Behind the left pillar at the beginning
orchid frigate
hmm ok
ionic fern
And then whereever else LoS is required.
undone jacinth
only tank needs to los
undone jacinth
nah
undone jacinth
so the mobs cast on random players but if the tank is not in los they run to them anyway
it’s a weird spires behaviour
ionic fern
We've had DPS die like that a ton so everyone LoS'es in my runs.
On top of that healers also usually put some heals down which instantly grabbs aggro.
undone jacinth
yeah u need aggro but if u have aggro it’s only tank that needs to los
u have to be right in the corner tho
ionic fern
Yes, AFTER you get aggro.
But i usually run in and just tag one mob
and leap back.
Wwait for them to group up and then start grabbing real aggro.
undone jacinth
I’d leap to the 2nd pack then charge back and hide
ionic fern
Ah, i uisually run past first pack, heroic throw second one and then leap back
undone jacinth
if I had a Hunter then sure
undone jacinth
but u always wanna aggro the farthest pack first if no tricks
like on any pull
e.g, top binding things
heavy sail
Or a rouge boy
ionic fern
You do you. 🤷
There's no reason to tag the furthest pack first if no one is doing anything. They are literally just standing there afk so the enemies just aggro to me due to me being the nearest to them.
undone jacinth
there’s lots of reasons
undone jacinth
your damage will be uneven, pulling takes longer, aggro is an issue
undone jacinth
you just said a second ago ur healer got threat and u ask everyone to los? that’s u having issues
undone jacinth
yeah and u can solve that urself by pulling better
undone jacinth
I’m just explaining how to do pulls optimally lol it’s not a preference thing
and not flaming...
ionic fern
..."I leap over the first pack "= aggro the first pack.
.....
That's literally the same thing
undone jacinth
they aren’t hitting u
ionic fern
? They aren't hitting me either o.o
undone jacinth
dear me
heavy sail
I usually just run straight into them 
ionic fern
You just run poast them on a mount, heroic throw, leap back. You'll get smacked by like 1 thing max.
heavy sail
Who needs to LoS those mobs?
undone jacinth
well hopefully everyone keeps los’ing to support ur play
heavy sail
I’ve never seen anyone do it that way so I’m genuinely curious
undone jacinth
u have an issue, there’s a fix but u don’t wanna do it
heavy sail
I just face tank
undone jacinth
it’s whatever
undone jacinth
healer getting aggro is an issue
jolly thistle
If you body pull the first pack while leaping over it, wouldn’t the healer get aggro as well?
undone jacinth
he wouldn’t but you also have way more ways of dealing with that if it happens
heavy sail
Cast* ffs
undone jacinth
you’re talking about one global to get back
it’s just how you pull
if you’re gathering a pull, you start at the far pack
that’s just how pulling works optimally
across all tanks and all scenarios
heavy sail
I usually take those pulls one at a time.
Never bothered to pull more than one pack there
jolly thistle
Ok. Describe how you would do that . Like every single step
undone jacinth
yeah that’s perfectly fine but if the key is high and timer is tight then that’s just a pull people do with lust
strong forum
Mount in
Tclap first pack
Heroic leap into 2nd pack
Charge back out / intervene
Los
Done
undone jacinth
yup and you don’t even need the tclap step if you don’t wanna take damage but I would still usually do it just because that’s more natural
it’s the same as like mists first pull
strong forum
Or you're big dick
undone jacinth
same deal
strong forum
You tclap mid heroic leap
On the first pack
Tclap vertical axis is enough
To reach
heavy sail
I’ve never missed a timer taking those pulls slow
undone jacinth
you could probably max range t clap if you are pythagoras
heavy sail
But I also don’t think I’ve done more than +15 SoA
jolly thistle
Leap into , charge out = get hit in the back , no?
heavy sail
So maybe it’s just that
heavy sail
Gross
strong forum
So what's it matter
undone jacinth
the pull is just a nice optimisation that’s all, getting to use lust at the start of a key is normally nice
strong forum
We never Lust there
Too small of a pull
Imo
You'd need to pull everything to make Lust worth
undone jacinth
we don’t always but sometimes in pugs I do it because I dunno what their dps is
strong forum
All 3 packs
heavy sail
I’ve never played with a group that optimizes lust on trash
undone jacinth
it’s safer and gets lust on cd
heavy sail
But I guess I can see that
undone jacinth
if there’s a pull u can lust on the opener like mists or hoa
ifs normally good
to use it
undone jacinth
opener then 2nd boss is normally how it goes
strong forum
Can't pull big enough, and for shards you often have pride just before
haughty sleet
Anyone that’s fairly deep into mythic nathria, are you still running bolster or did you swap to anger management?
undone jacinth
I do the 3 pack at the start with lust but ask ppl to hold CDs
strong forum
We hero first pull, first boss and last boss
strong forum
I play with mage so holding CDs is a nono
heavy sail
Are they really that good? I must be playing with shit mages.
strong forum
Good mages are bonkers , if he's a god, even moreso
undone jacinth
they are amazing at one thing and that one thing happens to be extremely powerful
strong forum
I'm playing with a god tier mage (atleast dmg wise) so yeh.
undone jacinth
bursting the shit out of something every 1-1.5min
strong forum
Combust is hard
heavy sail
So respect
heavy sail
When I played it I found myself just holding combust to much
strong forum
If you hold for longer than 10seconds it's already a dmg loss
undone jacinth
holding CDs with anything is bad
strong forum
Unless the pull is literally dying
undone jacinth
just keep blasting
undone jacinth
my dps improved pretty significantly even as tank using CDs on single target
strong forum
The biggest mistake dps players do is "wait for a bigger pull"
heavy sail
Yeah and I think about that in hindsight but combusting and using every cooldown for a 3 target trash pack
undone jacinth
feels like I’m doing no dmg but all adds up
heavy sail
Just feels wrong
strong forum
Most pulls are small
heavy sail
I mean I’m not a mage player by any stretch lmao
strong forum
There are no big pulls
heavy sail
So I’m fine admitting I’m terrible at it
undone jacinth
that’s the best thing about combust, it’s good on every pill size even single target
strong forum
When they don't think ahead themselves
"if i combust now, even if it's a small pull, I'll have it back up for this pull or boss"
undone jacinth
mage is the best class about just not caring to use CDs on pride
undone jacinth
it’s so free for them
heavy sail
I play fury the exact opposite, I just blow CDs on everything all the time.
Probably has more to do with comfort and familiarity
undone jacinth
probably because you are more comfortable
yeah
as long as you get the full actual active window then just go for it
it’s not as restricted by ignite as it was in BFA
heavy sail
Combust does feel like a tricky cooldown to use though
There are tons of subtle optimizations
So I appreciate when people are really really good at it
undone jacinth
yeah it’s a cool skill test
also maybe why every mage I’ve played with is toxic af lol
I have combust I am a god let me pull the mobs for you and tell you where to tank them etc
heavy sail
It’s rare I have one of those
Usually a rogue or mage in my experience
Chillest pugs are also usually ret paladins and warlocks
I don’t think I’ve ever played with a single rager warlock
undone jacinth
tru don’t think I’ve ever seen a ret pally speak
undone jacinth
oh man warrior pugs are actually legit awful lmao
heavy sail
I’ve had a lot of whiny fury warriors over the years
undone jacinth
I mostly end up with Russian ones
druids have the highest chance of being a girl so usually reduces toxicity percentage
deft vessel
hey now, I had an amazing fury warrior the other day in my 15 sanguine depths (tyrannical necrotic)
dungeon was hella smooth, group was awesome, he was top deeps by the end of it by a good chunk
jagged pier
FURY pumps in dungeons
deft vessel
here's the screenie, overall deeps by the end for the 15 Sanguine Depths (tyrannical/necrotic)
venthyr highmountain tauren fury war
dude was awesome and was mega chill
we had 3min 42s left on the timer lol
undone jacinth
that pala not trying his hardest
undone jacinth
isn’t that less than consecrate damage haha
deft vessel
I honestly didn't check, I feel like a holy pal by end of most 15s gets a good 1.X overall damage
but yeah, we took it nice and steady cus of the tyrannical/necrotic and it just....worked beautifully
like legit one of the smoothest mythic+ runs i've had in the season
fringe marten
Can the Inscrutable quantum device heal yourself??
undone jacinth
ya
undone jacinth
can’t remember it happened to me once on week 2 and I unequipped it a minute later
it was a decent sized heal it’s just a heal is worthless on that cd
like over 10k
deft vessel
it does heal, look here https://shadowlands.wowhead.com/spell=330364/inscrutable-quantum-device
and i swear burrs is gonna be a meme lol
undone jacinth
there ya go
silk edge
undone jacinth
burrs doing like 5% for me
uneven mason
damn the niya thing does quite a lot of dmg
Burrzz it almost beats my Ancient Aftershock some pulls
its been doing 12%~ for me
silk edge
yea overall it did more than my aa
undone jacinth
hm wonder why that is
uneven mason
because "Fun Detected"
deft vessel
the only reason we're talking about it is because it's a separate instance and people see it in tooltips, how much does mastery benefit overall damage I wonder...etc etc etc
they already nerfed it in beta I'm pretty sure
uneven mason
yeah, anything thats good for prot warriors tends to get nerfed
deft vessel
or rather reworked it late into beta
undone jacinth
how much actual damage is it doing for you to be worth 12%?
strong forum
Can people start using dps
Instead of %
Like if you do only 1k dps, it's going to do alot more % of your overall dmg
If you do 10k dps its going to do alot less %
undone jacinth
ye that’s why I’m asking for the number, assume people will know that more than dps
strong forum
Fucking if the run is 30min overtime it'll have increased total number aswell
silk edge
it did rouglhy 300kk on overall for me
strong forum
😠
silk edge
soa 17
undone jacinth
ofc just going off what I think people will actually know
strong forum
Dps doesn't change, it normalises
undone jacinth
it did 160k for me in a 15 mists
strong forum
Either way, clearly overtuned
undone jacinth
but that’s on a Druid so I dunno if the haste difference is affecting it or something
silk edge
yea
strong forum
It does 100-200 dps based on 1 pull of our nightfae users in raid
silk edge
i think aswell
undone jacinth
200?
strong forum
On logs
modern brook
SPiked Burrs
undone jacinth
Spiked Burrs
strong forum
150 dps
undone jacinth
WHAT
strong forum
Average
strong forum
Over an entire raid night
undone jacinth
I’m getting 50 every pull
strong forum
strong forum
This is 3.5hrs of raiding
modern brook
SMH maybe its punishing you for playing warrior dps
undone jacinth
I was feral 😂
modern brook
I got nothing then
undone jacinth
it was not doing much as guardian either though
I’m thinking it’s because of haste vers
or something
undone jacinth
tru
strong forum
The evidence is right there
undone jacinth
oh that’s a good point
modern brook
is feral as fun as i want it to be
modern brook
rogues been pretty SNORE lately
undone jacinth
feral is like the least fun spec in the game tbh
modern brook
lol
undone jacinth
well like bite is satisfying and it’s most of your damage, the problem is to do max damage you have to manage all the other stuff really well
modern brook
yeh
undone jacinth
and literally all that stuff is toxic
modern brook
I mean im not stranger to dot management
undone jacinth
if you have to do mechanics at the same time it’s a ducking nightmare
the dot management is one part but it’s like... yeah idk having to keep your bt procs while managing your dots on multi target while also not losing bites on your main
modern brook
YEah I gave up trying to BT on Multitarget while leveling lol
undone jacinth
with any mechanics giving you downtime dots start falling off, you’re completely out of rhythm and it’s gg
whereas when a warlock has mechanics they just run around dotting the target
modern brook
ranged op
undone jacinth
it’s so much easier
I legit enjoy my warlock and I’m growing to hate feral
don’t even get me started on owl weaving
modern brook
Story of my DPS classes rn is just that everything is a w hole lot of work for like 4.5k ST
then u get burried by every ranged spec anyways
undone jacinth
I mean I can do 6k st in raid
if I’m just sat on a target dummy it’s sick st damage
but any complications are so toxic
in m+ you are good at the same things a moonkin is just worse in every way
apart from priority damage maybe
modern brook
😬 ngl i tihnk i only like feral cause PW is uncapped and bite still hurts and thats all i want from my energy classes
undone jacinth
yup but then u see star fall is uncapped and ur like well fuck me
heavy sail
Arbitrarily capping some things but not others is such a load of horseshit
modern brook
SD in melee is :monkas:
undone jacinth
feral is less stressful to play in m+ than raid it’s just also worse in m+ than raid sadly
so I play bear
heavy sail
I’d play ranged if there were a ranged DPS spec that I actually enjoyed
undone jacinth
warlock is fun but too op
heavy sail
Demo is fun.
modern brook
honestly all the specs are fun
modern brook
Rapture is such a good addition to afflock imo
undone jacinth
yea it’s insane
modern brook
I mean from like a design stand point
undone jacinth
fun to use, has a skill element to it and does crazy dmg
modern brook
^ yeah that
heavy sail
I just hate casting in general I think.
modern brook
Sorta hard agree tbh
undone jacinth
same
modern brook
and hunters are for nerds
heavy sail
BM could be a fun spec
If pet AI wasn’t terrible
And the rotation not sleep inducing
MM is basically a caster
solemn magnet
Hunter casting is like magic user casting, but without the cool effects and sounds.
It's boring
modern brook
My 9000 iq play is that BM should be the melee spec
heavy sail
I did kinda sorta enjoy Spriest.
modern brook
because if ur playing BM its casue u wanna be like rexxar
heavy sail
Not enough to actually main it though
And their utility is nonexistent
They give a haste buff and fort
Pretty much it
modern brook
SPriest is a casserole of a class tbh
amber herald
you already can play BM in melee if you want
modern brook
If it exists they dump it in there and see if its fun in that context
heavy sail
I’m a fan of the rework though
Was desperately needed
They sucked to play after legion
modern brook
no opinion never played it since legion
heavy sail
If they made a really fast paced RDPS spec with no or extremely minimal casting
I’d probably play it.
And I guess BM is the closest thing to that, but it’s just not fun to play.
Fire mage is pretty close to that too, I guess. When you really get rolling with combust there’s not much casting going on.
uncut gale
hey guys, trying to get my stats in shape, is crit a waste? it seems like it, parry is good but half ur crit seems kinda dumb, any thoughts???
undone jacinth
your stats don’t really matter
raw socket
Go for haste
undone jacinth
just aim for haste where you can and vers if you’re dying to stuff
uncut gale
so haste> vers?
undone jacinth
generally until you hit extremes
heavy sail
Yup
uncut gale
im @ 440 haste 800 vers
heavy sail
Stat priority is a bit of a meme
undone jacinth
focus on your ilvl
heavy sail
The point where it matters what you select you’ll know enough to not have to ask.
Pretty much
uncut gale
cool
modern brook
pins has the 2ndary order if you're ever in doubt for overall throughput, sim your self for damage
uncut gale
its more of a checking with my prot buddies, to see what they've been doing hehe
are M+ a pain for u guys too??
heavy sail
Not really.
lofty widget
not at all
uncut gale
16+ are kinda hard for me
lofty widget
personal skill gets in the way before class problems for me
mental scarab
Slow/bad dps is win or lose
uncut gale
im fine at the 10 - 13
patent osprey
m+ hurts T_T but I love it
heavy sail
Plka is rank 1 m+, so he’s definitely the authority on how it goes with the higher keys
I think we’re struggling more than other specs
uncut gale
noice
heavy sail
But it’s not that bad
patent osprey
we struggle when it comes to magic damage but other than that we are one of the talkies tanks out there
we can even do some pulls dhs can't for an extended period of time
uncut gale
yeah i wondered why PF was so bad
patent osprey
but once we kite leap, we don't have alot in the tank for kiting.
uncut gale
i think that is it
heavy sail
Comes down to having better mitigation but worse kiting really.
uncut gale
what trinkets are you running Pika?
patent osprey
prot warrior is so much predictive tanking that in order for you to be successful you have to know whenever your gonna get hit hard before you do to prevent it
I'm running scale + slg trinket
uncut gale
sounds like healing with druids
patent osprey
but I'd run cheat death trinket if it ever dropped instead of slg
heavy sail
Trinkets aren’t much about ilvl
uncut gale
ok
heavy sail
I mean it plays in for sure
uncut gale
is the CD than
patent osprey
just depend son the trinket but ilvl isn't as important but what they do
uncut gale
scale is Dannys trinket right?
deft vessel
for trinkets ilvl is really not nearly as much of a factor as it is for anything else
heavy sail
Scale drops from hakkar
deft vessel
with how high Pika is pushing the cheat death trinket would probably be the most effective
patent osprey
DOS trinket
uncut gale
ok
heavy sail
You’re thinking of SV
jagged pier
im still looking for my scale tbh
uncut gale
i see
patent osprey
I think normal m+ dungeons u can probably run Anima emitter from spires to be more effective
patent osprey
yup
uneven mason
Venthyr master race
patent osprey
i may or may not be venthyr...
uneven mason
You could be necrolord
heavy sail
I personally run Thunderlords with BV.
patent osprey
my stream was trying to convince me to be necrolord yesterday
uneven mason
nothing stopping you, just you're taking the worst covenant abilitys with the worst conduits and the worst soulbinds
heavy sail
Like 45% or something
uncut gale
my warr is undead, it does not fit the kyrians @ all
uneven mason
yeah TL/TW is pretty interchangable for M+
uneven mason
TW is more RPS and more defense oriented
jagged pier
its not that high we had a discussion earlier @heavy sail like you get mabye 10-15 more casts of demo a dungeon depending on player and time etc etc
uneven mason
TL gives higher DPS and more regular DR
uncut gale
nice
jagged pier
its still good
uncut gale
i've been having fun with reverbs on lower keys
uneven mason
biggest difference I find between them I can hit SW as I charge
uncut gale
any tried yet?
uneven mason
nope
jagged pier
not had the soul ash to spare
heavy sail
Best catch all legendary is the wall for sure, though.
If you want to prioritize something
patent osprey
Best Learning legendary is the wall ^.^
uncut gale
i have TW
patent osprey
Dude there used to be only 2 Venthyr prot wars on the first page of prot warrior raider io, today there is 4 😄 Venthyr Stonks 📈
modern brook
i was pretty close to swapping tbh
But i jsut finished catching my warrior up to kyrian
undone jacinth
they probably think it’s good because they saw you
modern brook
not doing it again
modern brook
^
undone jacinth
that’s why you need to go necro so you can bait people to swap
uncut gale
so bad
modern brook
if you think about it as 2nd rallying cry
modern brook
its stil lreally bad.
undone jacinth
I’m going necro this week
heavy sail
Coolest aesthetics imo
modern brook
I mean im not going to stop you bro
deft vessel
I wish the skill was cooler/more useful/more practical in general, even if it wasn't as strong as the other options 😦
heavy sail
Just the worst covenant abilities
modern brook
but its not even worth the meme
heavy sail
Fleshcraft is so fucking bad
undone jacinth
I saw the shield mog and decided it’s time
patent osprey
If the cov ability was more fun/fluid Id play necro even if it wasn't bis
modern brook
speaking of shielsd
sick sentinel
Can I get a recommendation on which lego to run if i want to do max +9 mythics (pugs) and do normal and maybe heroic raids down the road. I mix of surviv and Aoe would be nice.
patent osprey
but i aint no banner boi
heavy sail
@patent osprey same
modern brook
Im officially no longer on a 131 shield :^)
deft vessel
Can I get a recommendation on which lego to run if i want to do max +9 mythics (...
the wall
patent osprey
Im officially no longer on a 131 shield :^)
gratz
modern brook
ilvlv 197; 171 shield
heavy sail
And they’d have to have an exceptionally good or interesting covenant ability too
patent osprey
Can I get a recommendation on which lego to run if i want to do max +9 mythics (...
Id play TL tbh. It is more fun
heavy sail
Because fleshcraft is dogshit
deft vessel
dude, I FINALLY fucking got a 207 shield last night from normal stone legion, I have KSM and did my KSM and most of my mythics with a 200 shield
patent osprey
dude, I FINALLY fucking got a 207 shield last night from normal stone legion, I ...
gratz
modern brook
I did ksm on my main and ride it around on my warrior
deft vessel
I did not get a single shield in the numerous +12 dungeons I did
it was so fucking triggering
uncut gale
any tips for tanking Heroic danny???
deft vessel
and finally, a pity shield form fucking normal, even though I do xymox and stone legion on heroic as well ;-;
heavy sail
Don’t die @uncut gale
uncut gale
hahah
heavy sail
uncut gale
solid shit
sick sentinel
Id play TL tbh. It is more fun
i was thining TL as well its good for aoe and defence
deft vessel
it's not that good on defense and it's really not that good in raid
uncut gale
is popping reflect on transitions of any help?
deft vessel
which you indicated you want todo
undone jacinth
there’s a trick to getting shields but warriors can’t do it
undone jacinth
holy loot spec
patent osprey
i was thining TL as well its good for aoe and defence
However if you plan to raid at all as prot, then the wall is the only real choice
undone jacinth
I went holy and got it first key
modern brook
honestly just go Wall
undone jacinth
after 50 odd mists in Prot spec
deft vessel
hmm, why would holy (paladin I assume) be any different than prot for war spec?
or are you memeing me ;-;
modern brook
if we ever get to pick 2, those 3 are going to be what you're picking from
heavy sail
Get 1800 CR and there’s a 220 ilvl shield waiting for you
undone jacinth
meme sorry
heavy sail
modern brook
Get 1800 CR and there’s a 220 ilvl shield waiting for you
I started doing this and fell into the rabbit hole ofpvp
heavy sail
RBGs
modern brook
its actually secretly fun
modern brook
you're just not allowed to enjoy it unless you have friends who also want to learn it
heavy sail
Prot warrior is actually fairly decent in BGs
undone jacinth
also gorax just use the Lego u like the sound of, fun is the priority
heavy sail
But you could always swap to arms and do 2s or 3s
sick sentinel
Raiding is not on my list atm i mostly planning on pugging M+ and as we all know it can be a mixed bags. I just to to self sufficient (in terms of staying alive) while also putting out good dps
deft vessel
BGs I enjoy but need to rando queue into them
modern brook
Raiding is not on my list atm i mostly planning on pugging M+ and as we all know...
Wall provides better consistency due to rage gain
Tlords is mostly for keeping dumb uptime on BV
Honestly its a coinflip between the two
I personally swap between them based on dungeon/affix
if you're only making one i say wall is better value cause it doesnt pigeon hole you into playing keys
uneven mason
I Mean, TL has value in raid, just not as much
patent osprey
I Mean, TL has value in raid, just not as much
technically by that merit every legendary has value 😉
uneven mason
You're not wrong
deft vessel
I used to run most of my early m+ with thunderlord, maxed it first, once the wall caught up in ranks I started running it more, it's also when I started running mostly 14s and above, dungeons felt a bit more consistent, I felt a bit more in control , I stuck with the wall and use it most places now, obv in raid, but also in m+, i only really swap to thunderlords in torghast
modern brook
technically by that merit every legendary has value 😉
counter agrument: leaper
sick sentinel
guess i will with Wall, since staying alive in PUG is more of a challange than anything else
deft vessel
even in open world i use the wall (i haven't made anything else yet for open world lol)
heavy sail
Yeah TL is definitely not worth it in single target
patent osprey
counter agrument: leaper
Tank Mythic council and let me know why leaper is awesome
uneven mason
I'm saying the gap is not super massive for TL vs TW, TW is stronger yes, but TL can still provide substantial benefit in a raid.
undone jacinth
honestly there’s not the need for big debate, with the content you’re doing the priority is using whatever you want to use and have fun with
patent osprey
I'm saying the gap is not super massive for TL vs TW, TW is stronger yes, but TL...
TL loses alot of benefit when its ST
modern brook
honestly there’s not the need for big debate, with the content you’re doing the ...
actually this tbh
undone jacinth
whatever Lego will make you enjoy the game enough to push forward and do more
patent osprey
honestly there’s not the need for big debate, with the content you’re doing the ...
Leaper 🙂 I want to make pvp clips that go viral
undone jacinth
hell yeah
sick sentinel
thanks all, i really appreciate the input
patent osprey
nom crushing dreams T_T
uneven mason
Fury warrior flag carrier check
undone jacinth
bruh the Prot warr log on the competitive sub Reddit
guy casting 4 shield blocks in an 8 minute denathrius fight lmao
remember people saying heroic was hard!
ocean bloom
i understand people not casting like shield wall a lot cuz they feel like they need to save it for something bad but not using SB/any active mitigation button is always a wtf
undone jacinth
11 ignore pains and 4 shield blocks in 8min
ocean bloom
how many revenges?
modern brook
73 revenges
"Idk why im dying i have a 90 parse"
undone jacinth
my sim says to use revenge
uneven mason
Smells like a BrM main from Legion/BFA who got asked to swap to Proteciton because Limit used them in the WF kill
modern brook
didnt monk lose ironskin
uneven mason
"Tanks don't have to press survival buttons"
modern brook
what do they do anymore?
uneven mason
yeah
jagged pier
pnly 73 revenges what a scrub tbf
uneven mason
Celestial
jagged pier
can get 20 more in at least
uneven mason
its like guard
also BrM takes damage now
noticeable damage
no longer smoothbrain tank
VDH takes that cake
modern brook
can get 20 more in at least
22 more specifically
if 11 ips went to DPS like the :warrior: he is
oh im not nitro rip my great joke
undone jacinth
I like that he cast 3 times as many shield walls as he did demo shouts
he cast one more shield block than he did shield walls lmao
people are crazy
livid dawn
I wish leaper was a viable m+ leggo
chilly brook
Imagine dying bro
undone jacinth
nothing stopping you from using it!
patent osprey
nothing stopping you from using it!
other than being kicked from the group for the following key when all you do is leap around like a frog xD
undone jacinth
you can use it to ‘jump to isolated enemies’
livid dawn
But what if you also used a frog themed transmog
Nobody can kick you now
With frog mount
heavy sail
You’d have to transfer to moonguard
heavy sail
“My RP is that I’m a gray parser”
chilly brook
I did a 9 theater last night in fury just for kicks
chilly brook
This dh took the kiting meta a little too seriously
heavy sail
That’s about the only thing they do
chilly brook
Literally just throw glaive drop sigils and kite
Didnt appreciate dying
Because he had 0 aggro
heavy sail
He was probably overthinking it.
I made that mistake a few times my first few “high” keys in SL
undone jacinth
that’s why people shouldn’t be posting about kiting meta everywhere
people actually think it’s real below 15
heavy sail
But yeah fury pulls aggro all the time unless the tank is actively tanking
At least just establishing a big threat lead
undone jacinth
probably fire if you only care about dps
lofty widget
strength in aoe, phantom for st
undone jacinth
I prefer main stat pots for those moments tho
woven trellis
strength is going to do more dps in aoe?
tardy parcel
Fury pumps in keys
What legendary do you run for M+ as Fury? Deathmaker or Signet?
heavy sail
Signet 100%
tardy parcel
ballin
dawn geode
he can at least fel vomit then run away
undone jacinth
strength is going to do more dps in aoe?
would be surprised if it did but I just use str either way so am not sure
heavy sail
Deathmaker isn’t even BIS for single target anymore if you’re playing extremely optimally
undone jacinth
it’s also boring af
chilly brook
Signet is just bis for fury
tardy parcel
indeed
livid dawn
What are y'all thoughts on covenant if you're purely m+ prot
I chose nightfae
And loving the soulshape
heavy sail
Kyrian is the go-to
uneven mason
I'm enjoying NF
undone jacinth
does necrolord have a soulbind that does any damage
uneven mason
No
heavy sail
NF is perfectly viable though
uneven mason
NF is stronk
chilly brook
For m+ tanking I honestly think NF is better
uneven mason
bigger DPS, better interrupt
heavy sail
Really the only covenant that is just objectively bad is Necro
undone jacinth
agree with nf in anything other than necrotic week
uneven mason
BURRZ
uneven mason
agree with nf in anything other than necrotic week
Y?
undone jacinth
quality of life
livid dawn
Considering nobody interupts in pugs...
lost oracle
i was nightfae but changed to kyrian
heavy sail
Phial is huge QoL
uneven mason
soulshape is a shorter CD than phial and lets you kite while regening HP at 5%a tick
you can soulshape kite every pack if yo uneed to
uneven mason
so does non DR stunning them with Ancient aftershock 😄 ¯_(ツ)_/¯
heavy sail
We’re already a relatively mobile class, so I don’t see as much value to soulshape
undone jacinth
there isn’t much
heavy sail
As, say, a paladin would.
uneven mason
I think if you tried soulshape
lost oracle
and while i love soulshape, phial is just really good for m+ and raiding
uneven mason
you'd have a hard time going back
heavy sail
Could say the same for phial
undone jacinth
and I assume ur not regenning that hp with necrotic on unless it’s bugged
uneven mason
I was kyrian at the start of the Xpac
uneven mason
and I assume ur not regenning that hp with necrotic on unless it’s bugged
SHHHHHHH
undone jacinth
I am nf on Druid, it’s fine but mobility is a nice to have whereas phial is a game changer on specific packs
lost oracle
I miss the extra movility butfor kiting spear is like the same but instead of you moving more, they dont move
heavy sail
Anyway, NF and Kyrian are the “meta” options.
Venthyr is decent but worse than the other two.
Necro is just not worth mentioning, don’t do it.
Unless you just really really really like the aesthetics and don’t care about gameplay
undone jacinth
all of this assumes you know any covenant is fairly inconsequential