True but there’s so much you can actually face tank now even with kirhation down
#protection
chilly brook
Dont see why that's an issue
quiet crane
I liked that shit hurt personally
chilly brook
There are plenty of casts and mechanics that trash have that are dangerous
quiet crane
It’s not it’s just my own view like I’ve already stated
icy dirge
Can’t face tank the dogs in hoa
quiet crane
I’m not turning it into an argument
chilly brook
You can to a point
icy dirge
I wish I would of tanked in mop especially in siege of org
chilly brook
The only reason mop tanking doesnt exist anymore is because people got mad that tanks were more than just meat shields
And probably because blizz couldn't be bothered to properly tune vengeance
The second part of me potentially not tanking anymore is guild related, idk how much longer they'll be raiding or how much longer I'll be raiding with them. Lots of people unhappy with the current progress especially with it being a 3 day guild (myself included). @icy dirge
icy dirge
Yeah I think raid burnout happens real quick as a tank
chilly brook
Eh it's more me not being happy in a 3 day a week raiding guild that's only 3/10
woeful vine
The second part of me potentially not tanking anymore is guild related, idk how ...
i'm in the same situation with my guild
chilly brook
And finding a tank spot in another guild usually means there was a problem
Plus dps spots are just so much more prevalent
chilly brook
i'm in the same situation with my guild
Seems to be a common issue
icy dirge
Is this raid comparable to mythic ulduir in difficulty?
woeful vine
Seems to be a common issue
we have some baddies that the gm brought from last expansion, who were known to be problems back then too.
icy dirge
This raid seems 3x harder
chilly brook
I'd say it's harder than Uldir
jagged pier
The second part of me potentially not tanking anymore is guild related, idk how ...
we are are only 5/10 and for me its a bit annoying but the guild like 50/50 split on if we are going to slow or not, i think its just the reclears like bosses are harder and ppl mongo dps instead of doing mechanics
jagged pier
Is this raid comparable to mythic ulduir in difficulty?
its far harder than uldir
chilly brook
we are are only 5/10 and for me its a bit annoying but the guild like 50/50 spli...
What's your guys' schedule?
2 day 6 hours?
chilly brook
Oof
jagged pier
but we dont go over
icy dirge
Mine is 2 days 4 hours just getting into mythic
jagged pier
and our position is actually the same as it usually is
its just i dunno frustrating to go and get 3 wipes on huntsman becuase one healer is healing the spirits
but then we go and one shot hungerinig and sun king
🤷
chilly brook
It was a kinda out of no where decision towards the end of Nyalotha to become a 3 day guild for SL
jagged pier
weve been 3 days for years
jagged pier
like since before i joined the guild in WoD
but i enjoy it as i only really play the game to raid
chilly brook
But also really think only being 3/10 this late into the tier on a 9 hour a week schedule is bad
jagged pier
also why some of our guild are pissed of, as we are all capable of much more but LOGS
so everything is slower cause "i need my blue number"
jagged pier
well thats what they end up being because they try and min max and die in a mechanic or somthing
chilly brook
jagged pier
where if they just played the fight probs be purple
but dps mongo
well kill invera this week only had like 3 hours on her and got her to 11%
then its onto the fun bosses imo
and usually when we get to the hard bosses
people take their heads out of their arses
and we actually go proetty fast
chilly brook
We hit like 30% I think on inerva
jagged pier
OOF
jagged pier
sun king is actually a joke
chilly brook
Hate that boss so much
jagged pier
and really fun
jagged pier
well he better heal the boss
like our ret goes prot that all he does, apart from sceond shade where he tanks the vanquishers until he dies to bleeds
jagged pier
okay vanquisher dot then
chilly brook
Like the boneflayer bleed in NW
jagged pier
that better?
distant crystal
in the changelog on wowhead the tooltip changes from "causes you to bleed" to "deals xxxx dmg"
i think it's when they made kyrian phial/stoneform not work
chilly brook
Nah just clarifying that there are bleeds in the game recently that have been unintentionally interacting with armor
jagged pier
yes that was a change to stop the phial cleansing it
distant crystal
accidentally nerfed the crap out of it when they were trying to buff it lol
chilly brook
I still can't believe how much damage I can do at 200 ilvl on my alt
jagged pier
woeful vine
what server are you on Griff
chilly brook
Thrall
jagged pier
i mean if you know what your doing
chilly brook
US
woeful vine
gotcha.. i'm on ZJ, Us
quiet nexus
How do you guys keep aggro when pulling multiple mobs starting with no rage?
ionic fern
You should have Avatar/DS/Spear(or AA) or atleast one of them ready for almost any pack.
All of them provide rage, add the rage from Charge ontop of this and you have enough already.
Otherwise cast a TC/SS in the beginning to get more.
ebon hound
"I have nothing here, need 3 globals."
orchid frigate
3 globals for 3 sunders
had a healer yesterday that tracked most of my abilities with some addon that announced what i used in say all the time
IGNORE PAIN
etc
first i was like "why is he saying i should use IP when I just used it?"
ebon hound
oh god
patent osprey
we did our first 21 prot warrior team!
deft vessel
we did our first 21 prot warrior team!
nice, gg!
strong forum
Last I heard that prot can't even do 12s
true wind
Question. You can dodge, when a Mob hits you in the Back, right? Learned that a few years back and i'm not sure if they changed it. I'm aware you can't block or parry, but dodge was possible "back then".
just wanna update my info ^^ cause i read the general Tank-Guide on IV and it stated otherwise
strong forum
No
You can't dodge if your back is turned to the enemy
Getting hit in the back is 100% hit, can't block, dodge or parry those attacks
true wind
okay. Not planning to do so anyways. But ... enemies could dodge Player attacks from behind for years... no? (that's why all the melees had expertise)
enemies = NPCs / Raidbosses etc.
strong forum
I don't think that was ever the case, it was moreso expertise being needed to hit a certain threshold to not miss attacks iirc
Hit cap but different
I could be wrong though
Didn't play much pve prior to bfa
true wind
i thought that was hitrating that was needed for that. I learned it that Hit -> don't miss and Exp -> don't dodge / parry.
and i mean ... it's old, so it's not up to date ^^ and my memory might be completely lost here x)
i mean it really isn't that important since one should generally not get hit in the Back ^^
but thanks for your answers.
sturdy trench
u can dodge an attack from behind
literally has been the case since forever
but cant parry/block
true wind
that was my info aswell. But wasn't sure anymore because i read otherwise.
strong forum
Well evasion, sure, but monks literally turn their back to enemies to increase their dodge chance until they wanna dodge a certain mechanic
Elusive brawler, they can get up to 90%+ dodge until they actually dodge
Mobs can/could dodge even if you hit them in the back, players can't except rogues Evasion spell
sweet summit
Thats dumb, even more reason to hate rogues
strong forum
You can fear rogues, then evasion doesn't work
You can fear -> stormbolt a rogue during evasion
And hit him, cuz if he's CCd he can't dodge
sweet summit
Ye ik, but still fuck em
strong forum
Ye I played 3hrs of 2s yesterday, fucking awful
orchid frigate
3s is a whole lot of more fun
strong forum
Rogue mage in 2s is the most degenerate playstyle
Go for 2 seconds, then run
Go for 2 seconds, then run
sweet summit
||you should be put in a mental asylum if you play rogue mage in arena||
orchid frigate
i like how good mages are at kiting, shielding, healing and doing dmg
strong forum
Mage food + triune ward + regen hp inside block
Rogue Regens health in stealth + mage food + vanish
24/7
So fucking insane
true wind
Mobs can/could dodge even if you hit them in the back, players can't except rogu...
that sounds kinda weird. Why should the dodge from evasion work different than normal dodge? Dodge is Dodge...
i'm really confused rn
strong forum
No clue, but it just does
They get 100% evasion rate on all melee attacks
Maybe it's not raw dodge chance
Apparently you can still hit them in the back
According to wowhead comments
strong forum
It's just incredibly hard to hit a rogue in the back
So I guess you can still slap them in the back even through evasion @true wind
strong forum
Missing is not dodging
Well depends from what angle you look at it, why do you care so much
Cuz like, hit rating and expertise aren't a thing anymore
true wind
yes, missing is something different. Why i care? I honestly don't know. xD i just "wanna know" for my own inner peace i guess xD
i'm silly sometimes
strong forum
All that needs to be known is, is that you cannot avoid an attack if its hit in your back or the enemies back, if you hit them in the front there's a chance they dodge/parry it
In m+ mobs cannot dodge or parry
In raid, bosses have I believe a 3% parry chance if you hit them in the front
true wind
ye, that's the important stuff. Melees behind the boss, Tanks infront.
sweet summit
Cant think of any parry mechanics
deft vessel
can someone explain to me how the warcraft logs mythic+ section works? it seems to use points that seem to be roughly equivalent to the raider.io score (it tracks progression/highest key done/times)
is that correct?
my "global" rank for warrior tanks is ~the same on raider.io and warcraft logs (thus the assumption)
strong forum
It tracks highest key done yes
It scraps leaderboard from wow or from uploaded logs
deft vessel
cool cool (seeing the orange/pink is much more satisfactory than the purple of r.io tho let me say)
deft vessel
well, with the number of warrior parses in general, most of us that put in the effort are probably going to be somewhere there
the parse colors are relative to other prot warriors
while r.io is a global score
strong forum
🤔 hmmm
Idk how much you should trust m+ parses
Like... If its only leaderboard scrapped, there are no dmg numbers associated with it
Only key done and maybe time
deft vessel
indeed
I don't log my m+ runs, so it's only really r.io completion and warcraftlogs completion
strong forum
Cuz like
What's the metric there ykno
This is halls of atonement for example
Pretty sure it's just timer
If you timed the key, gj you get a 99
deft vessel
I think it takes into account speed to some extent as well
since the "Speed" ones are slightly different to the "Points" ones
you can specifically filter by "speed" at the top
that one is for sure speed, beyond that? I have no idea what info the API exposes for leaderboard runs
the site doesn't really show much
ah, a familiar face ;P
brisk rain
is there any real difference between venthyr and kyrian in raid?
jagged pier
well yes soulbinds are different the abilitys both have there own perks and downsides
theres quite a lot of difference
deft vessel
pretty much
over the encounter you will likely get a bit higher overall damage with condemn, but that assumes you have the rage/cooldowns to survive tank mechanics, in general condemn is pretty good in raid , but because it's pretty meh on prot in m+ many ignore it
nimble drift
I woke up in the middle of the night and cant fall asleep
deft vessel
if you play DPS war and like venthyr/condemn then go for it
nimble drift
Now im reading this discord
deft vessel
well, uhh, good morning to you then
nimble drift
I have to wake up in 4 hours so i need to sleep
sweet summit
You feel like you have to swap covenant?
brisk rain
funny thing, i swapped from venthyr to kyrian 1 week before i had to start tanking xD
funny coincidence
but i feel like going back to venthyr ;]
deft vessel
then go for it
frail wyvern
I'm venthyr prot and really enjoy it, its got good ST dmg in raid. I dont care too much for m+, otherwise I would probably go kyrian
brisk rain
i only dps in m+ xd
frail wyvern
Fully commited to tank life this exp 😂
frail wyvern
At least with condemn in raids you get a couple of burst windows to pump some dmg. Makes me feel more than just a punching bag
chrome crest
Guys ! Versat or Mastery for prot war ???
jagged pier
ILVL
chrome crest
210
chrome crest
ouch ok
i have my wall ready to up 235, but i have haste + mastery on it
im asking of i keep the same or switch to haste+versat
jagged pier
i mean vers is like marginally better but it really doesnt matter that much
like it will change very little
chrome crest
okay. thx.
strong forum
Unluck
remote hawk
word. but ill troll my friends with it for some fun at leasst ^
strong forum
strong forum
Yes
deft vessel
yes it is for your spec
undone jacinth
ah oki nice
are parses for low kill counts just scuffed? like I have some green parse on a fight I had to do mechanics but it’s still like the 90th highest recorded log on the fight
unique shale
another bad day of puging make me stop playing tank 
undone jacinth
seems kinda dumb
strong forum
are parses for low kill counts just scuffed? like I have some green parse on a f...
Parses are always comparing dmg dealt compared to other people of the same on that fight globally
undone jacinth
I get that but it’s not just a straight up % afaik
strong forum
So if get a 90, you did more than 90% of all people of your spec on that fight who have killed it
If you're the 2nd person to kill the boss
And you did less damage than the 1st person
You got a 0 parse
undone jacinth
I don’t think that’s true
strong forum
Because you're the person who did the least dmg to the boss
jagged pier
that 100% how it works
like i got 95 or somthing for a rank 3 kill on sunking cause like 50 prots had killed the boss
strong forum
If you're the first person to kill a boss on your spec, you will always get a 100
jagged pier
^^
strong forum
If you're rank 5 but only 10 people killed the boss, you get a 50 parse
It's all relative
jagged pier
^^
undone jacinth
the 100 is true of course but the 0 isn’t
strong forum
Why shouldn't it
undone jacinth
if you’re the 2nd person and get less than the first you definitely don’t get a 0
merry bronze
Hello 🙂 quick question from a rusty tank that wants to start again! AM vs Bolster in castle nathria :)?
undone jacinth
that’s what I’m trying to figure out
jagged pier
you do because your the lowest parse on the fight
jagged pier
well if u know then u should have the answer
jagged pier
but if youve been in that situation cant u check logs and tell us?? 🤔
undone jacinth
Logs don’t tell you
strong forum
The only people that know are like top 5 World raiders
sweet summit
You get a parse depensing on ur dps compared to the other guy
jagged pier
"I’ve been in the situation lol I know you don’t
you can check logs easily"
undone jacinth
for example 3 ferals have killed Denny, 1 has 100 1 has 50 1 has 25 but idk if that’s always how it works
that is clear from logs
strong forum
Do they have multiple kills
undone jacinth
how to get a different number isn’t clear
no
3 kills
3 logs total
but I’ve seen this many times before
I just dunno what the formula is
signal plover
Could just be that they assign like the highest number of the percentile or something
So in the 2 person example the lower person would get a 50, not a 0
undone jacinth
wouldn’t it be 33 instead of 25 for the third or am I dumb because it’s just half of the 50 maybe idk
I’m not a maths boy
sick sentinel
The first few kills of the boss its always scuffed, but it also doesn't matter
undone jacinth
I’m just trying to figure out when things start unscuffing because a bunch of bosses have tiny kill counts and my parses are all over the place
isn’t really important I’m just curious more than anything
deft vessel
Hello 🙂 quick question from a rusty tank that wants to start again! AM vs Bolst...
to answer your question since most seem to have skipped it, it sort of depends on what you need, most people run AM as 1) shield wall is very valuable in CN (works against magic damage) and 2) it provides more offensive benefit compared to Bolster , if you feel you need more Shield Block uptime on a boss then go for Bolster, an example where Bolster is probably better than AM is Sludgefist, as the majority of his tank damage is physical and blockable
merry bronze
@deft vessel thank you!
blazing condor
whats the name of the buff that the inspiring mob has/gives?
jagged pier
hes talking about this weeks affix
signal plover
I think good means this week's mob
signal plover
Ayyyooo
jagged pier
i dunno just nuke it down first
deft vessel
I need more coffee damn it
deft vessel
whats the name of the buff that the inspiring mob has/gives?
It's called "Inspiring Presence"
deft vessel
ah it's "Inspired" on the allies of the mobs it seems
real veldt
Do they get any what?
deft vessel
any buff I think is the question
sweet summit
You can cc/kick the guy
deft vessel
the tooltip seems to be the same
sweet summit
But not the ones around him
deft vessel
I mean
if they are in range, generally, they are affected
there's two ways to handle, you either stun the main inspired mob (with the aura) and separate it from the group
or you burst it down
note that, according to some reading I've done, if you push the inspiring mob (with the aura) further than the 15 yard range, you will be able to kick other mobs, even if they are showing a red cast bar, your kick should connect
probably intended, why the UI doesn't reflect it I'm unsure but there you go
for the most part you want to focus damage on the inspiring mobs if they are in the same pack as dangerous casters
undone jacinth
it’s good to see on nameplates so you know when you can kick
deft vessel
it's not too bad all things considered, i still don't really like it, as I feel like I lose control over the dungeon as the tank, esp as a prot tank, I can't tunnel very well into "one specific mob" damage wise
undone jacinth
sometimes interrupt bars don’t update
oh you just said that haha
and yes can confirm that is indeed true
deft vessel
yeah, didn't take advantage of that too much to be fair, it was pretty annoying in the corridor before hakkar to be fair
uneven mason
the bars don't change in mid cast if you kill the inspiring mob
deft vessel
yeah I think that's it
uneven mason
but you can intterupt them once its dead.
undone jacinth
weird thing is I’m pretty sure in BFA you could pull multiple inspiring mobs together but now you can’t
deft vessel
(or out of range)
uneven mason
inspiring is a new affix?
uneven mason
huh
undone jacinth
it was part of the eternal palace affix
deft vessel
it was a part of the Azshara tier affixes in the 10+
uneven mason
ahh ok
deft vessel
one of the emissaries in teh dungeon had the inspiring aura
(beguiling?)
i don't quite remember the name
deft vessel
yeah
undone jacinth
emissary of the void shudders
undone jacinth
tru but worse in every way
deft vessel
beguiling and reaping I wasn't too big of a fan of, but boy was Awakened fun
sweet summit
???
undone jacinth
awakened was awesome yeah
undone jacinth
reaping as boring af imo
deft vessel
well yeah but it didn't have a path planning aspect to it, mucho cd, big numbers
it was boring
ionic fern
I also enjoyed reaping.
undone jacinth
hard agree diruuo
remote dawn
reaping ❤️
ebon hound
Reaping was fun, not interesting, but fun
deft vessel
I enjoyed it at the start for AoE deeps, but it got pretty old pretty quick
undone jacinth
exactly
deft vessel
yeah, that's it probably
ebon hound
👢 🍵 👏
undone jacinth
I’d honestly pick beguiling over it even if I had to skip void week every 3rd week lol
ebon hound
Has it ever occured to you that you might be a masochist?
undone jacinth
the void aggroing through the gate in volkaals room and bricking my atal 😦
yeah probably right
deft vessel
nothing is as bad as fucking tol dagor and the dumb ass prison bit with the dumb ass mages aggroing through the dumb ass wall every fucking time
undone jacinth
I somehow had that happen almost never, I think because we had the right classes or something
I never figured out what the worst offenders were though
undone jacinth
yes same
I tried so much stuff lol
also some abilities went through the gate to aggro 2nd boss and some didn’t, that was cool
modern brook
nothing is as bad as fucking tol dagor and the dumb ass prison bit with the dumb...
The beach pull made tol dagor worth it tbh
uneven mason
So, Niya's Brambles
erm Burrzzzzzz
its hawt
12% of dmg~
keeps up with Ancient Aftershock
sometimes surpasses it
expecting a nerf any day now
deft vessel
that's kind of cray, damn
I like Kyrian, I wonder how much the mastery buff affects my overall damage, not as easily trackable as brambles ofc
tropic cypress
Anyone got a good all round talent build for CN tanking?
jagged pier
deva/BV/ITF/AM or Bolster depending on what u need
tropic cypress
ITF over UF yeah? I thought the same just not tested it
tropic cypress
Well, I mean I run Ravager in M+
And Im looking at this Icy Veins guide which seems super suss
But thanks!
jagged pier
how is icy veins sus?
;literaly tells on a per bos basis what to take
and never suggests UF
deft vessel
both the wowhead and icy veins guides are pretty good and generally have the same recommendations
jagged pier
the wow head one is not good and wasnt written by a prot warrior
where the icy veins one was
uneven mason
who's probably never played a prot warrior in his life
deft vessel
wowhead guide is written by a prot war/monk player
jagged pier
incorrect
sweet summit
Llarold is smart
uneven mason
Not as smart as Mwahi!
deft vessel
let's not spread random bullshit and appreciate the writers' time and commitment
jagged pier
well it wrong
deft vessel
how?
jagged pier
it suggest UF for one
and says its the offesive build
even tho it does less damage
and is worse in every way
deft vessel
did you, you know, read the text?
jagged pier
no but majority of people wont ither they will look at the picture we saw it so much in the first few weeks
i didnt even give it 2 mins of my time tbh
deft vessel
then piss off lol
jagged pier
i trust Mwahi 100 times more than a monk player
plucky cairn
Hi, my guild tank has been outputting very low dmg lately and hes not sure why. Would anyone be willing to take a look at his logs?
uneven mason
is he a protection warrior?
deft vessel
@plucky cairn shoot here if he's prot, though generally #449510248579858432 is better suited for this
uneven mason
We have to make a choice to mitigate more damage or produce damage, other tanks do not (its like our only drawback)
strong forum
it suggest UF for one
I told him to update it
He just forgot about it
Llarold is good boi
deft vessel
he plays like, a bunch of characters, I have no clue how he has the time
jagged pier
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/FW7JRrVLAwBj4p2v#fight=36&type=damage-done&...
he doesnt really press execute, apart from that i cant see much else he doesnt waste any rage at all
deft vessel
ancient aftershock damage strikes me as...atypically low
strong forum
Kinda weird actually
jagged pier
hes poping it in avatar and demo when he can tho
deft vessel
he should pop on CD
jagged pier
he might not be add cheesing
uneven mason
yeah he isn't missing GCDs
plucky cairn
He is running the AA conduit
deft vessel
beyond first pop you can't really keep it for buff windows for very long, but It does seem like he got all the casts in
uneven mason
AA desyncing is alright
since it smooths out your threat pool rather than creating big bursts
plucky cairn
Is it cuz of his low versa?
jagged pier
no
uneven mason
Is it cuz of his low versa?
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
vague jetty
He casts a lot of revenges it looks like
jagged pier
hes not chessing the adds
strong forum
He's just doing low damage, his boss dmg isn't too amazing
jagged pier
like invera logs comes from cheesing adds
vague jetty
Also didn’t pot once
uneven mason
his VDH co tank is performing at thie top of his bracket
strong forum
214 is basically 10ilvl behind
uneven mason
so he's probably just losing aggro to mega pumper
jagged pier
hes actually 9th for covenant
strong forum
Ah yeah that would do it
plucky cairn
No rez
vague jetty
20s of nothing also makes it look bad, no potting, has one potency conduit, not high I level. I think it is a combination of a few things
deft vessel
20s wouldn't cause this big of a divide I feel like, but missing execute damage maybe so who knows
these are
since jan 21
uneven mason
20s is huge for parse %
vague jetty
Mastery is a pretty bad output stat yea?
strong forum
It's the best output stat
deft vessel
incorrect, it's our best damage stat
uneven mason
mastery is one of our best
vague jetty
For pure damage?
strong forum
Yes for pure dmg
jagged pier
mastery PUMPS
deft vessel
for pure damage, yes
uneven mason
since its a multiplier for our str
deft vessel
haste is good cus it buffs shield block uptime, but for pure damage mastery is real gud
modern brook
exponential multipliers :pog:
grand drum
Festermight pog
strong forum
Well it's a multiplier, idk bout exponential
jagged pier
No rez
that being said looking at your other kills hes playing a lot more defensive than that one
plucky cairn
@jagged pier hes a very defensive oriented player
uneven mason
Well it's a multiplier, idk bout exponential
yeah sorry wrong word, uh basically the higher our str/other stats the more we get out of mastery
valid zodiac
Out of all things there's nothing that pisses me off more then when some dps or in this last case a damn healer pulls packs
undone jacinth
doesn’t look like the guy is doing anything wrong in the logs really
valid zodiac
Man it triggers me so hard
plucky cairn
We are having a lot of threat issues with our VDH lately so we need ot fix it
jagged pier
<@!179993058186625025> hes a very defensive oriented player
then why does his damage matter if you killed the boss anyway 🤔
vague jetty
Not that this matters for output, but tell that guy to use reflect more
plucky cairn
@jagged pier Because he drops threat on other bosses, I.e. Sire he hardly maintains threat on swaps
I don't care if he does 1 DPS if boss dies
vague jetty
I’m pretty sure it’s a mix of things
frail wyvern
Swapping as adds spawn in p1? I used to do that and the DH tank aoe would rip aggro
jagged pier
Idk what he's doing wrong but he is factually underperforming
go have a look at their hungering kill
uneven mason
<@!179993058186625025> Because he drops threat on other bosses, I.e. Sire he har...
You have basically the only tank that has to make the choice between offense and defense running against the highest DPS tank, unless the other tank has a brai nand stops pumping for swaps he'll get aggro back
plucky cairn
Thanks for all the information and clarification guys, it helps a ton
grand drum
Maybe he is using IP over revenge too often
vague jetty
Is vdh the highest single target tank?
uneven mason
Inerva he's pumping revenge
its the fact his co tank is just blasting without pause
and then being like "WTF BRO"
uneven mason
Is vdh the highest single target tank?
yes
vague jetty
I mean, yeah that’s bad, but I think the question was, what can this guy do better
uneven mason
IDK if he can
vague jetty
Can you show me where that’s true?
modern brook
hes holding demo shouts
frail wyvern
I outdps our VDH on ST 🤣
strong forum
I checked his huntsman log, and his casts are almost same as mine we have same killtime
modern brook
thats something
strong forum
But I do 1k dps more
uneven mason
wtf
undone jacinth
I mean he’s the lowest ilvl in the raid and not using dps trinkets
uneven mason
sorry paladins lead in ST
undone jacinth
I don’t see that he’s doing much wrong
uneven mason
but VDH is doing insane burst
vague jetty
Fair enough
undone jacinth
I wouldn’t have any particular criticism for him if I was reviewing those logs
vague jetty
But that wouldn’t mean anything when that guy was talking about mid fight taunt threat
jagged pier
But I do 1k dps more
depends on how u deal with the adds and stuff tho
jagged pier
and if hes position with revenge correctly
plucky cairn
So its probably just a mix of a few smaller things adding up
strong forum
He's not potting and not using dps trinkets
That's a big thing
He's underusing execute
frail wyvern
If the DH pops off for some reason when the warrior taunts, it will rip aggro @vague jetty
undone jacinth
that’s the DH being bad not the warr
frail wyvern
Especially if the warrior is using defensive abilities not threat building ones
vague jetty
Early in the fight sure, in the middle of the fight? Not really, if threat is an issue in the middle of the fight something else is going on
uneven mason
take a look what his VDH co tank does every time the warrior taunts
*almost ever ytime
he starts using resources to pump
and thats why he'd get aggro back
jagged pier
He's underusing execute
might not be using CDs in bloodlust as well they BL third dog on huntsman
undone jacinth
Early in the fight sure, in the middle of the fight? Not really, if threat is an...
threat mechanics aren’t what they used to be
it’s actually not uncommon to lose threat now
jagged pier
he starts using resources to pump
i mean thats how you should off tank imo
jagged pier
they did?
undone jacinth
yeah it’s called Elysian decree lmao
jagged pier
F bois someones rerolling VDH in my guild
undone jacinth
jk
vague jetty
You mean recently?
strong forum
Same thing??
strong forum
Yeah I wouldn't trust that
At all
Just because Blizzard says it was what happened, doesn't mean that it only affected that
Vdhs ripping threat is a fact, yes, they deal like 20% more dmg
undone jacinth
it wasn’t out of combat it was not attacked
deft vessel
why do so many people aruge if it's a buff or a fix
strong forum
But that could be a reason
deft vessel
are you all that sensitive to the flavor-of-the-month-ness of VDH?
uneven mason
uh
modern brook
deft vessel
the end result is a positive change to their threat generation
who cares if you call it a buff or a hotfix
undone jacinth
it only applies in m+ is the point
unique shale
guys i can't tank 14 plus keys any big packs will spite on me without cd and after cds ends 'and i dead
undone jacinth
so it’s not a threat buff in raid
modern brook
^
strong forum
It shouldn't
vague jetty
So 3 of their abilities, and only if they haven’t touched it, that really isn’t a buff, and is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. We are talking mid fight when the warrior taunts
strong forum
But like I said, I don't trust it
uneven mason
Its not unlike blizzard to "oops" on these things.
strong forum
Could very well be a fuck up
deft vessel
true, I'm just mildly aggravated at the constant "BuT It'S nOt A bUfF"
undone jacinth
I have a lot of exp with a VDH co tank and I can literally see the threat moving in raid when they cast sigil.. in dungeons sometimes it actually does not do threat
undone jacinth
overall maybe but not in that moment
strong forum
It's only opener with fel dev + decree
Like the very 2 seconds or w/e
Where he could potentially rip aggro
uneven mason
wtf is this dudes burzzzzz
strong forum
Burzz is stupid
unique shale
any help/tip with 14 plus keys ?
uneven mason
Uh, what packs are killing you?
I mean there is a wide variety
whats your ilvl?
what comp?
unique shale
Uh, what packs are killing you?
ok let me send pic then which packs
proud frigate
Track your defensive uptime more
modern brook
heres something funny
proud frigate
Everything becomes easier when u don't overlap
modern brook
Your tnk is top 10 for NF prot war's on that fight
undone jacinth
lol
chilly brook
What fight?
strong forum
Inerva
chilly brook
Mythic inerva?
jagged pier
yer
jagged pier
chilly brook
Hey man I just woke up
undone jacinth
like the guy just isn’t playing bad, flame the DH instead 😝
jagged pier
i mean somehow hes loosing damage
uneven mason
he died
chilly brook
And damn dude if this is the bar ya boi is gonna be top 5
jagged pier
yer but not just invera
uneven mason
prior to the dead he was doing ok
jagged pier
like Nome said they have the same casts on huntsmans pretty much he just does 1k less 🤷
strong forum
any help/tip with 14 plus keys ?
Having good dps makes your life 3000 times easier, so that could be potentially an issue.
You need to properly track your defensives and buttons aswell as have proper knowledge of what each pull can do
undone jacinth
his casts are good his items are bad, I think it’s pretty simple
uneven mason
also tell him to stop being lazy and get his 30 renown so he can have burzz and gain 10%~ damage
strong forum
Interrupt the rebellious fists, play Bolster + Ravager ( if you're not doing that already)
If there's an inspiring mob, CC it or kill it insta
uneven mason
Oh, spires
uneven mason
yeah those are problematic packs untill you have DPS who are good at interrupts/stuns
modern brook
dark lashes also hurt
strong forum
They do?
modern brook
Your dps*
unique shale
i think you are right on dps cause i could tank for certain time then i had no cc and bb life
uneven mason
yeah
chilly brook
Dark lash is bad for dps yea
uneven mason
yeah higher keys are a team effort
literally can't expect a tank to carry through a run
even VDH need support
jagged pier
most pugs do
do the inturpts the stuns the cc know the route
etc etc
at least what happens to me
modern brook
Honestly their job is to memorize a 8 global cast sequence and press flame strike for the rest of hte dungeon
your job is to hold the rest of it together
strong forum
If you haven't seen almost capable people play keys as pwar I can recommend plka or sense on Youtube or twitch, maybe that can help @unique shale
modern brook
Id recomend Nomeratur :^)
modern brook
yeah hes a bitch
strong forum
Tru
unique shale
If you haven't seen almost capable people play keys as pwar I can recommend plka...
i mean we had spear to stone them but the guy used too early and nobody really used cds to kill them
strong forum
Yeah that's also an issue
I can recommend my most recent highlight on twitch tho, that was a pretty funny key
jagged pier
turn down the volume tho
unique shale
ok any informative prot streamer ?
uneven mason
lol
strong forum
Depends on what you call informative
unique shale
talk what he is doing
uneven mason
Nom's streams will teach you new words.
unique shale
lol
uneven mason
thats for sure
strong forum
Na i don't think anyone really does "informative" videos
Not popular enough of a class
uneven mason
I mean, you can learn a ton just from watching what they do
unique shale
I mean, you can learn a ton just from watching what they do
ok then who ?
jagged pier
i was thinking of making some but not a popular class and all the people mentioned above would do a much better job if they bothered to put in the effeort
uneven mason
Plka or sense
frail wyvern
Jakey make a necro prot guide pls
jagged pier
have to lvl one first
or my guide would be
so theres a delete character button
press it
congrats makea kyrian or NF next time
unique shale
Plka or sense
Are they both on YouTube or twitch
uneven mason
No one listens to Nom, thats why he plays with toxic people.
strong forum
I sometimes stream aswell, but only 15-17s weekly keys with pepega people
But it's funny
unique shale
nice plka is a venthyr prot 
modern brook
it is very funny
strong forum
And I can press buttons good
There will also be links to our channels in #268491842637660160
Soon tm
jagged pier
the dream to get my empty channels linked there 
unique shale
deep steppe
And I can press buttons good
🤔
jagged pier
well not empty there like half of my BoD progress on it
modern brook
Nomeratur keys are the guild run equivlent of Low CR 2600 lead yolo rbgs
jagged pier
that why i say im bad
unique shale
how to be dh as prot be venthyr and take two door of shadow
modern brook
just leap 4 head
strong forum
3leap*
undone jacinth
btw more than 1 person has come in here recently asking about leaper for kiting
has there been a video done somewhere
that’s trolling everyone
strong forum
Pretty sure just memes
jagged pier
i mean its not needed, its great for capping flag in rbgs early tho
unique shale
i don't let go my the wall lego
undone jacinth
have been 3 ppl I think
unique shale
wowhead after math
uneven mason
I have, probably because I troll them when they ask why prot is so bad
so I tell them because you need the leaper to impersonate VDH
modern brook
have been 3 ppl I think
someone made a blizzard forum post praising it as the reason they got master, iirc
it was linked here a day or 2 ago
undone jacinth
lmao
jagged pier
eh?
modern brook
I honestly cant follow the whole post
it confuses me
but this is the part in reference to leaper
undone jacinth
the whole thing reads like a meme
undone jacinth
there’s enough science in there to make me think he believes it
modern brook
- run whirl wind 2) run GONK 3) run thunderclap aoe talent for the slow 4) leaper
undone jacinth
he uses the leaper legendary to ‘jump to isolated enemies’ lmao fucking predator
modern brook
and thats the first paragraph
ocean yoke
heh, nothing personnel kid whirlwinds
modern brook
I like that whirlwind is edgier than revenge
undone jacinth
leaps behind you
uneven mason
that has to be a troll
modern brook
i dont wnat to link the whole post to avoid confusion but i think it sjust a guy playing wrong and finding success
For the record i was wrong about him attributing leaper to getting master
the post is basically about "how to tank w/ Condemn"
modern brook
yeah
undone jacinth
step 5: ?
modern brook
this part is actually correct tbh, minus the shit exmaple
bolstered LS-> charge->SS->condem spam is certainly a good opener
undone jacinth
well he isn’t correct that it’s underrated
modern brook
(on ST)
undone jacinth
everyone uses it
modern brook
💪 i dont
undone jacinth
wut
modern brook
renwon 13 boys
undone jacinth
rip
modern brook
i just pulled my warrior outa retirement last week
undone jacinth
I’m gonna switch to necrolord, which will hopefully give me the motivation to play it
strong forum
someone made a blizzard forum post praising it as the reason they got master, ii...
Pls tell me it's not that... What was his name again
A- something guy
He was giga active in SL channels during beta
Making the wildest posts and claims
With just wrong information
vague jetty
I probably am going venthyr just to keep things interesting, Kyrian is boring although powerful
modern brook
i absolutely love spear tbh
undone jacinth
he’s the heretic
vague jetty
I’m just bored of it
modern brook
condemn spam seems even more of a snooze fest tbh
undone jacinth
condemn is actually satisfying
strong forum
And I don't wanna grind renown again
vague jetty
It’s not too bad catching up
strong forum
And Niya is bound to be nerfed
modern brook
Kyrian also is such a strong enabler in PvP
strong forum
Yeah I cba Ryan
I legit only do weekly keys, a bit of pvp and raid log at this point
undone jacinth
I don’t grind renown on alts but I still catch most of the way up just from dungeons or whatever
undone jacinth
I need to check how much mine did yesterday
modern brook
I don’t grind renown on alts but I still catch most of the way up just from dung...
you 100 have to do the campaign though
undone jacinth
to reach max?
modern brook
yeah
modern brook
Unless they changed it on me again
Theres a softcap on renown drops thats like
Max renown-2-[callings with rewnown rewards]-[uncompleted campaigns]
undone jacinth
hm
in the first weeks
I caught up to max renown
with renown quests still outstanding
frail wyvern
I think its only the 2 weekly quests which stop you reaching max
undone jacinth
they didnt even stop me on alts
I had max renown with the 2 weeklies outstanding
when I handed them in they just gave me no renown
modern brook
they changed it twice without patch notes since launch
undone jacinth
ah
modern brook
at least
speaking anecdotally
no hard proof but i ran to max renown 3 times on an alt and 3 times it was a different experience
undone jacinth
burrs did 170k dmg in a mists 15
deft vessel
I wonder if it's properly supported in Simc
sick sentinel
whats the name of the spell in TOP
deft vessel
if so can sim most likely
undone jacinth
I’m not sure if it beats out good potencies for dps specs
undone jacinth
demoralising shout
undone jacinth
minus 100% damage..
deft vessel
i suspect the mastery from kyrian might be better for overall deeps, but don't really know for sure, feely crafting, obviously that doesn't quite show on damage meters like burrs does
undone jacinth
do you mean withering plague or whatever
sick sentinel
u get 2 at the same time, i can't remember what the other is but 1 is -100% dmg, not seeing it MDT, or BW and i'm getting upset with it now
make me look like idiot
deft vessel
I genuinely have no clue what debuff you're talking about
undone jacinth
yea idk
sick sentinel
its minus 100% dmg, disease on abomb trash in top
undone jacinth
not seeing it in MDT? that generally means it doesn’t exist
sick sentinel
which spell is that?
ocean yoke
is it that withering discharge or something cast?
undone jacinth
lol yes it’s withering blight from withering discharge
20% per stack
you let 5 casts go off? Wtf
never seen that in my life
modern brook
actually LOL
undone jacinth
that can’t be possible
uneven mason
modern brook
ilu yogi sorry but thats actually funny af
deft vessel
wait, 5 stacks???? XD
undone jacinth
imagine being that healer lmao
deft vessel
I pretty much always pull it in two sets of two packs (the abom + the small jumpy dudes and then the other abom and other small jumpy dudes)
sick sentinel
i just totally forgot that can even happen so we bricked
deft vessel
how do you forget about withering discharge?!?!?
sick sentinel
and it was just frustrating as all hell
deft vessel
it's like the thing to watch for there
ocean yoke
your dps clearly forgot too if it went off that many times
undone jacinth
dude there’s no way your group let 5 discharges go off that is not possible
oh wait it’s inspiring
even so...
deft vessel
I mean, in a low enough key where they can survive it, maybe
in a high key you're dead by the second one on a fortified week
undone jacinth
even just ignoring the damage
it’s such a long cast and for literally nobody to be like hmmm
maybe we should stop that
even just by accidentally stunning
sick sentinel
i normally set up every single dungeon and have custom stuff for magic or melee incoming damage, certain sounds for block/kick
undone jacinth
that’s 10 casts total from that mob
undone jacinth
yea
modern brook
i ran it last night its kinda ass
I had a dk tank that MC'd the captain(who is inspired this week)
for the whole dungeon
and it trolled me so hard
cause the captain is so fucking big and so fucking shiny
I cant see anyhing in melee
sick sentinel
and, so i cant just buy a disease remove potion right? just for that and genral use, last week with the necro
deft vessel
there's one inspired mob in that first room of the plague quarter
modern brook
and, so i cant just buy a disease remove potion right? just for that and genral ...
kick it
uneven mason
and, so i cant just buy a disease remove potion right? just for that and genral ...
you can
modern brook
pummel is free
ocean yoke
kyrian phial will clear it as well
undone jacinth
when are you gonna use your potion though, after you’ve got 4 stacks? Lol
sick sentinel
if there is a disease remove potion i am going and going to get like 50 of them RN
deft vessel
disease removal doesn't clear necrotic
only kyrian potion/stoneform paladin shenanigans
modern brook
idt necrotic is a disease anymore
undone jacinth
and you can’t tell your group to all bring disease potions for the casts you’re gonna let through
sick sentinel
kleia soulbind removed necro didnt it? and that was a diseas