Tbh
#protection
strong forum
fallow mortar
how ever much you can cram into your gear
undone jacinth
don’t think anyone is quite there yet
sweet summit
Cram 
undone jacinth
does anyone know what the fastest way to get renown is that isn’t one of the two weeklies
sweet summit
Callings
sweet summit
Oh i dont think you can get renown that way if youre "cought up"
jagged pier
Anyone know whats the higest haste % we can have right now?
i think theres someone around 30ish in here ive seen before but not sure
like if i had haste on my legs and high haste chest and neck id be close to 30 i think
mental scarab
🤩Nice
jagged pier
and haste on my wep
undone jacinth
Oh i dont think you can get renown that way if youre "cought up"
there must be a way to get the 3rd one fast though?
there's no more quests to do afaik
sweet summit
There isnt a 3rd one?
undone jacinth
3 renown per week or no?
sweet summit
You get 2 renown a week now
jagged pier
its 2 a week now
undone jacinth
oh rip
sweet summit
Campaign is over
jagged pier
after campaign finished
jagged pier
i mean theres 500 anime alone in maldraxxus from world quests
sweet summit
Go do world boss and big anima world quest
jagged pier
I got my 1k this morning in like 20 mins
undone jacinth
ok cool
mental scarab
Im 211 and have 28 % haste now, but have the 200ivl pvp trinket @jagged pier
undone jacinth
do we know if burrs work on bosses now or still no
sweet summit
Why should it not?
sweet summit
Oh really
undone jacinth
thats how mechanics that damage and slow normally work
if debuff doesnt apply damage doesnt get done
sweet summit
Well i dont remember NA complaining about it so i think it works
Go check a log
It works
sweet summit
Pog
undone jacinth
2 different haste vers weapons
this is on my druid
worst possible stats
lol
they both same stats, trolling me
undone jacinth
ya 😦
you're not allowed to get the same item
so we're just gonna give you different items that are the same
wesmart
it’s ok got a 75 ilvl upgrade on then pala, we good
pastel vector
is 3% haste worth gaining over 3% vers?
jagged pier
wep
ionic fern
I'd also take the weapon.
errant oriole
man i just got the macabre sheet music trinket as a 213 is it any good at all?
currently rocking 200 of gluttonous spike and splintered heart of al'ar
jagged pier
macabre is not good
as u have to move a fair bit to collect them all
if u put it in a corner it work really well
but i had it and actually used the darkmoon verocity over it
much more reliable
undone jacinth
is 3% haste worth gaining over 3% vers?
not really... it’s the wrong kind of question, just equip ilvl and make it haste if you have equal options for now
sinful pivot
not really... it’s the wrong kind of question, just equip ilvl and make it haste...
do i get the wep?
jagged pier
you take the wep
undone jacinth
I’m probs wrong person to ask as I don’t value weaps or <226 as highly as others but if the boots have bad stats would definitely just take the weapon
will be a big immediate boost to you
undone jacinth
meh I just wouldn’t be super happy with them for any spec
weapon is by far biggest immediate boost and they are pretty much equally replaceable
amber herald
which one guys?
undone jacinth
the stygia
midnight jetty
is the Sanguine Vintage any good of sire?
jagged pier
yer its really good
blazing condor
You bois think its smart to start building 2nd prot legendary and try and max it out or go for DPS legendary?
blazing condor
I feel like i SHOULD pvp but dont really have anyone to do it with rn and cba either
so it'd be nice to have The Wall and Thunderlord if you can combine them later on
but that's probably long enough in the future that i'll have a DPS lego too
ionic fern
In all honesty just get a r1 Legendary..it's mainly the power that you want. You can update it later.
heavy sail
Yeah, most all of the benefit is front loaded. Get whichever one you think provides the most benefit for the content you do.
r1 leaper is actually extremely convenient for getting around
With the PVP talent you get 6 consecutive leaps
tribal compass
Would one of you mind checking out my question in #449510248579858432 please? It is about my co-tank prot warrior. I was going to post it here but didn't want to break any rules lol.
heavy sail
“Hey guys, I'm the prot PALLY in this raid, and we just recruited a prot warrior. I don't really know much about prot warriors, but it seems when anything messes up even slightly (like getting 3 stacks on inerva) he dies. He's also seems to get destroyed on 2 stacks of jagged claws so he always wants to taunt on 1 stack which is super weird to me. Could you take a look at him and tell me if it's just him playing poorly or if prot warriors are really in THAT bad of a spot?
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/cVz6mKrdnMDb9WJw
Thanks!”
He’s playing kyrian so claws shouldn’t be a remote issue
If you’re dying because of a failed swap that’s going to happen to anyone when you fail mechanics
Looking at the logs there are quite a few inaccuracies I see
But it’s a team failure as far as I can see
jagged pier
hes barely casting SB
on shriekwing he blocked 29% of hits against him and only cast it 9 times
heavy sail
I hadn’t checked that fight just giving it a once over on my phone
But that’s definitely an issue
His uptime on the overview didn’t look too terrible from a glance
jagged pier
it not just sheik he doesnt press SB like at all on any of them
valid zodiac
MFW I opened the vault with Arms spec
strong forum
Also they should swap on 2 stacks on inerva not 3
strong forum
Taking up to 3 bleeds is literally a non issue even on mythic, on early attempts I even went up to 4 but then insta cleansed with kyrian phial.
This is just a case of bad warrior
strong forum
He really needs to look at his rotation, he's almost entirely spending his rage only on revenge
And then doesn't even do good dmg doing so
heavy sail
His uptime on SB is all over the place pull to pull
strong forum
He's just hammering his keyboard
worldly onyx
guess he wouldnt survive plaguefall last boss on tyrannical +15 ^^
heavy sail
Maybe rage starving himself by spamming revenge and waiting for builders
That’s what I would guess anyway
worldly onyx
that boss is just insane
strong forum
Pf last boss? Na it's chill if your dps aren't apes
jagged pier
hes playing AM as well and doesnt take advantage of it at all
worldly onyx
ok but if it takes looong enough you dont have anything.... :/
heavy sail
I was focused on the 2nd inerva wipe and I just gotta say, regardless of how this dude plays, if it’s 3 DoTs and not 2 you’ll wipe.
strong forum
Only p3 doesn't matter cuz there are no tank mobs spawning that have to die
worldly onyx
k at least i know its not my fault if i cant survive long enough as prot, and + venthyr prot suxx as well xD
strong forum
I was focused on the 2nd inerva wipe and I just gotta say, regardless of how thi...
3 dots is 1 too many, yes
Failed tank swap
heavy sail
That’s literally the only tank responsibility during that fight lol
strong forum
No call-out for externals = death
heavy sail
Cannot afford to screw that one up
And I guess swapping to the adds occasionally
But das it
strong forum
It's a collective guild mistake honestly, but the warrior is hard inting, albeit he is taking less dmg and healing than the paladin
Atleast on kills
heavy sail
Warrior privilege
strong forum
But yeah, just a bad case of not pressing correct buttons
dull zodiac
lightless force vs Celestial guidance in a m+ , howmuch of a dps gain is force?
ish
roughly
signal plover
Man I was about to talk about how 3 stacks on Inerva could be bad facing but then I realized it's heroic so oof
dull zodiac
ok ill go guidance
heavy sail
Yeah no excuses for that one
strong forum
Nice
signal plover
Noyce
heavy sail
Just making a point that blaming the warrior there for not surviving is pepega
Unless he like literally fat fingered taunt and did it himself
lavish hare
How is it possible that Blizzard destroyed the only original tank in the game, and gave the stupid demon without even a shield the spotlight???
jagged pier
i mean hes not playing well in terms of survival at all in general tho
heavy sail
True
signal plover
U can live 3 stack on mythic btw
strong forum
Woah made the 3% cut!!
signal plover
You just have to dump IP
lavish hare
Its just ridiculous, really, pisses me off
strong forum
dull zodiac
the amount of times my friends asked me ' hey do u have a tank alt ? ' yes, ill relog ' 'oh... its warrior'
and then
jagged pier
Woah made the 3% cut!!
SAME
dull zodiac
everything ends up being fine
strong forum
Unless warri is legit #1 you won't see them being above other tanks
jagged pier
heavy sail
It’s weird that paladin is 2nd most popular
ionic fern
I'm happy with not being popular.
In the beginning of key:"Oh, no it's a warrior, so bad!!"
At the end of the key: "Oh crap, that was easy".
heavy sail
That spec is sleeper
solemn magnet
How's BrM? xD
heavy sail
Good
Probably 2nd best tank atm
Strange that prot warrior is as unpopular as it is.
heavy sail
Yeah they have an argument for sure
fringe oyster
I love my warrior . And I’m hoping all the trash nerfs help with survival
strong forum
I don't feel like survival is an issue, it's moreso a dmg thing
solemn magnet
I still explode to the same 2 DoS trash packs
dull zodiac
can confirm
fringe oyster
Explosion
dull zodiac
my blood dk tank does aswell and we got keystone master in the first weeks
its not a warr thing
solemn magnet
Wasn't trying to say it was. Just a feelsbad
ionic fern
Most "tank busters" are all tank problems. 😂
heavy sail
My only beef with guardian is just that their damage is underwhelming
ionic fern
I'm surprised they diddn't nerf that DoS pack tbh
heavy sail
And not the most engaging to play
But their survivability is really really great
Maybe the most durable right now, not sure
fringe oyster
That’s why I like my warrior the damage isn’t terrible but I feel engaged . On guardian I get bored
I like the fae ability better to. Hits like a truck
lament zealot
I really want to switch to nf from kyrian as prot. Is that game losing you think?
ionic fern
No.
Just play w/e Covenant you want.
if you want to min-max look towards Kyrian/NF.
tribal compass
Thanks for the input. @strong forum, I know it's 2 stacks. Like I said in my OP - "when anything messes up even slightly"
Also, where do you see him taking less damage than me on kills? Literally every kill I take less damage. You can also see by my damage and parses that I am full DPS build lol.
dull zodiac
guys
what do u guys run for conduits in m+
i see so many different paths
the sheet gives some options but not a set in stone path
double potency? finesee? endurance
tribal compass
he also takes more healing than me from the healers. So confused on what you're looking at LOL
maybe you were looking at inerva wipes on accident?
Inerva I definitely take more dmg and healing, no doubt about that.
jagged pier
are you the take from the log earlier?
tribal compass
I am the pally
that he said is taking more dmg and healing than the warrior who isnt pressing his button
jagged pier
yes i dont need to shout at you
strong forum
This is huntsman
tribal compass
I'm just tryin to figure out what was going on with the warrior tank. If he's literally just not pressing buttons, that makes sense. I get that we screw up collectively sometimes, like getting 3 stacks... but honestly the screw ups seriously aren't that big of a deal. 3 stacks on heroic is like a, "oh.. haha, whoops!" and it just falls off no problem, but for him he legit just falls over.
strong forum
But I guess that would be because you're tanking alot more idk
heavy sail
3 stacks during heroic prog isn’t just “haha oops” it’s usually a wipe
Your healers are barely at maintenance HPS levels
For 3 dots
He could absolutely be playing better no doubt
But that’s just not true
tribal compass
3 stacks on heroic has never been a wipe lmao
jagged pier
he could also run defensive talents 🤷
heavy sail
Look at your HPS and DTPS from the DoT and compare notes
I mean that’s a weird hill to die on, it’s an important mechanic to not fuck up.
wild sandal
does spear damage get effected by demo shout or avatar?
heavy sail
It’s liveable sure, but not with your raid
My only contention there
I do find it kinda funny how you took to the warrior class discord to discuss someone’s play and get hyper defensive at something nom said in passing.
Sounds like a toxic attitude to me man
tribal compass
It's not, I was just confused on what he was looking at. He not only said it in passing, but added an emoji throwing shots
I'm entitled to find out what hes looking at and why he said it
heavy sail
In any case I think Jakey gave some valid points, he’s great at looking at logs
So I would forward whatever intel he’s given
Nom as well
strong forum
I was only looking at the huntsman kill
Where both took basically same dmg
Nothing in depth cuz I don't have alot of time rn
jagged pier
i mean even so on the huntsman kill the warrior still only blocked 37% of melees guess vanguard was coming in strong
jagged pier
F
heavy sail
Damn
strong forum
Yes the warri is not even doing the basics
uneven mason
223 IQD 223 cloak 220 neck 213 belt 213 gloves 213 cloak F
oof warrior without shield block
like a paladin, but without self heals
tribal compass
There's obviously room for improvement across the board, myself included. I was just trying to figure out what was going on with HIM or if it was just the class itself since I don't really know prot warrior at all. Obviously it's a rotation issue as pointed out. Thanks
heavy sail
Not the class at all yeah, he needs to go to school a bit.
strong forum
Yup pmuch, if you miss SS casts alone, your entire offense and defensive will lack A TON
tiny blade
nice!
strong forum
Gaming
tiny blade
Now i just need to get my rating up so i can upgrade my 200 shield 
amber herald
same 😔
jagged pier
same
sick sentinel
i no longer want the iqd
silver trout
shields refuse to drop for me from the vault... feels bad
fringe oyster
What’s your preferred talent setup for mythic plus? Why would I not wanna run anger management instead of bolstering?
modern brook
shields refuse to drop for me from the vault... feels bad
still rocking a 131 tbh
i know the pain
fringe oyster
Also is the point of booming voice really for the damage reduction! I feel like dragon roar is so useful for early threat generation and damage
uneven mason
DR is pretty meh for AE threat
and BV gives you +20% on all targets
so, big DPS boost
also 40 rage.
althoguh I think DR is very close for rage.
since, BV doesn't affect demo shouts Damage reduction at all (20% reduced dmg is part of DS base)
fringe oyster
Hmmm interesting . I’m just starting to climb mythic plus stuff . I haven’t had a single threat issue yet . But I’m expecting it’ll eventually become an issue maybe LOL
undone jacinth
only becomes an issue when you’re with good players and none of them is a Hunter
distant iris
(Or a rogue)
undone jacinth
rogues don’t exist
subtle island
Anyone crafted leaper legendary? Thinking about making it for kiting
distant iris
I'm going to build it for running old raids, but no actual content
lofty widget
i got it for rbgs
subtle island
Feel like I get cornered a lot and it would really help out
undone jacinth
no
undone jacinth
you shouldn’t need to kite most of the time anyway but one leap is more than enough to do it if you need to
just try to plan better
fringe oyster
I like my thundery boots though
sweet summit
unnerving
modern brook
also 40 rage.
im late to this but this is really what makes BV "better" than roar, even if throughput is the same
40 rage can be dumped into revenges if we need damage
ip/sb if we need to not die
DR is always just a roar
the flexibility of BV cant be understated on that teir
Speaking of not dying; Hows the nerfed dungeons feel to tank
is it time to come out of retirement or are we still kiting in 10s?
sweet summit
its time
deft vessel
I've not had to kite in 10s barring a few forced kite mechanics I think
subtle island
unnerving Focus or Stalwart Guardian
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/prot-condemn-is-not-rage-starved-and-prot-is-a-good-kiting-tank/830121 saw this interesting post re: unnerving focus (amongst other things)
modern brook
like a pheonix i'll rise tbh
deft vessel
even now in 15s I don't really have to kite barring some forced kite mechanics (a few specific mob types, necrotic resets, other debuff resets if DPS is low, etc)
and all that with a 200 shield
the "need" to kite is vastly overstated for the majority of the m+ player base
if you get into 20s, yes, sure, probably
but 10s?
come on now
digital hawk
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/prot-condemn-is-not-rage-starved-and-pro...
interesting lol
thanks
subtle island
If it makes it easier to stay alive, why not?
deft vessel
because it doesn't actually do that
if you ever need more than a single leap to "stay alive" you've done something terribly wrong
subtle island
Ye but if you have done something terribly wrong, then it allows for you to correct it
deft vessel
the problem with your argument is that...you already do that...with one leap
modern brook
the problem with your argument is that...you already do that...with one leap
also just play better 4head
digital hawk
you shouldn't be using leaper if you can just play better and not have to use multiple leaps
deft vessel
to add, no, venthyr prot is not bad, there's a meaningful number of high end prot warriors in m+ that use venthyr, unnerving focus is also quite good, especially with the increased uptime allowed by bolster, whether it's "better" than the other endurance conduit? no idea tbh, they're all kind of minor and pretty close to eachother, so personal preference really
digital hawk
then wall or TL is much more valuable for your leggo slot
subtle island
If you think of disengaging as mitigation, then it’s allowing you for you to mitigate basically indefinitely, especially towards the end of fights
fringe oyster
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/prot-condemn-is-not-rage-starved-and-pro...
Yeah but I’m already rank 30 with the nightfae way too late for that re-roll now lol
deft vessel
or even signet, or even revenge lego, even the "bad" legendaries are better for you than leaper in meaningful content
deft vessel
If you think of disengaging as mitigation, then it’s allowing you for you to mit...
it also makes fights 1) last longer 2) be harder for your DPS to do anything with and 3) is entirely unnecessary (which is the main prblem)
modern brook
If you think of disengaging as mitigation, then it’s allowing you for you to mit...
Warrior has a 2 second AoE stun, and thats it no omega slow, no sigil of chains, etc; any time you start kiting, things are walking out of flame patches etc -ie things are dying slower; meaning your pull is taking longer
uneven mason
is it time to come out of retirement or are we still kiting in 10s?
can do 15s without kiting but for like, bleed dogbearbats in HoA
deft vessel
you don't need to kite as much as it's presented, and going half way across the map in 3 seconds is meaningless
amber herald
if you want more leaps just take the talent
the movement speed will help you kite also
uneven mason
general draven soulbind is nuts
this
deft vessel
if you want more leaps just take the talent
this
modern brook
Bounding stride is op
digital hawk
this is also nice
modern brook
fuck crackling thunder
modern brook
this is also nice
imagine having a roomate that gave you tea every minute
deft vessel
I legit thought about going venthyr for the tea memes
I love me some tea
but I also like the spear a lot as a skill sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ye
modern brook
but I also like the spear a lot as a skill soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo...
Spear of bastion is so sick tbh
digital hawk
yeah totally
modern brook
Sometimes i think im missing out on cool condem animations and memes
modern brook
but spear is sooo nice i would never wanna give it up
digital hawk
it makes prot way more playable
uneven mason
I'm NF, cuz a kiting CD that regenerates your HP is pretty baller
digital hawk
NF is nice too
fringe oyster
I hated kyrian. But ancient aftershock straight to the face is a beautiful animation
digital hawk
but Kyrian phial is nutty for high keys
amber herald
furrygang ✊
modern brook
NF stands for Nerd Flosers.
uneven mason
but really its for the ancient aftershock knockdowns for interrupts
amber herald
20 more stuns not on the DR
deft vessel
ancient aftershock is nice too, and so is venthyr, they all have different uses and are nice for different reasons
uneven mason
mmhmm
amber herald
or a caprisun
amber herald
most people chose capri sun
deft vessel
it's just...boring, uninteresting and weak
modern brook
I feel like thats the case for most of necrolords
uneven mason
But yeah the only covenant that ISN"T really applicable is necrolord
modern brook
I think like 2 classes have fun necrolord abilities
uneven mason
and that is a combination of weak covenant abilities and weak conduits
digital hawk
knowing blizzard they'll make banner op somehow and we'll all be necrolord by 9.2
deft vessel
shaman and DK have awesome necrolord abilities
deft vessel
banenr is just so...underwhelming for its cooldown
modern brook
Fleshcraft is useful in plaguefall 😦
uneven mason
its really the CD that kills it
deft vessel
it really is
deft vessel
it doesn't even buff a full m+ group either
deft vessel
and it's clunky to choose who to give hte buff to, they can lose it if they leave the tiny radius (which they don't see after it's been placed BTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
modern brook
i always assumed it was your party
uneven mason
nope its 2 other people
modern brook
didnt realize it wasnt even 5
uneven mason
in the radius
modern brook
lol
deft vessel
it's only you and two others
frail wyvern
Blade dancers is OP for RP walking
uneven mason
I Mean, there are solid conduits for Necrolord
fringe marten
That's what terrifies me. It's obvious they made necrolord the 'obvious' warrior/dk choice..and that they'll rework it in the next tier to the point where any serious raiding prot warrior 'has' to take necrolord because the banner gets dummy thicc or Fleshcraft becomes this amazing utility buff. And then after all this time spent throwing stygia at venari for upgrades to piercing verdict and all this covenant work..it'll all have been a waste of time.
fringe marten
...that's how it works for dps'ers...they have to live that life of using trash ilevel gear because the statweights sim too well.
Tanks just get to keep pushing forward goddamnit.
The 'worst' it got in BFA was "oh..I have to do arena to get this really good necklace essence..../sighhh....ok"
It didn't invalidate any work or time you had put in.
frail wyvern
I'm sure they said something about when covenant changes occur they will make it easy to change for a period without losing progress, so I would hope that means giving equivalent ilvl conduits and so on
fringe marten
uh huh..all that means is, as long as you didn't progress the ilevel of your covenant ability too far the 'starter' one for the new covenant will be at like 213 or some BS.
frail wyvern
The most worrying thing is the penalties for returning to a covenant you left. What if you leave next patch for Bis covenant, then have to go back a patch later?
fringe marten
Dude it's wow. If they 'rebalance' covenants. Or add new abilities that simply make prot war have to change to whatever the vastly superior covenant is; there's CERO chance it goes off without you losing some serious time investment.
LOL exactly what I was thinking about erin
I didn't type it but was thinking "and watch..in the third tier; we wanna go back to Kyrian and they're like "ohh you left...so you get to start fresh again ASSHOLE!"
frail wyvern
Changing once, even in current state isn't awful, but returning...😂
digital hawk
this is assuming that Necrolord gets buffed while the remaining 3 covenants don't change whatsoever
fringe marten
"Your faith in Blueman Group was not strong enough, you joined the Bannermen...and now you PAY!"
digital hawk
as in no new soulbinds, conduits, buffs, nerfs, etc.
I doubt that necrolord will be the best option out of all covenants. After all, thats not what blizzard wants
blizzard just wants each covenant to be playable to some regard
fringe marten
Plup I think 'if' we are put in a position where are arms are twisted to a point where we have to switch it'll be a combination of retuning the banner/fleshcraft and 'new' soulbind abilities, or retuned soulbind abilities.
frail wyvern
I think all covenants will have some form of changes, probably including new conduits and tuning to existing ones
digital hawk
necrolord isnt playable atm but I think blizzard will rework it to be an option
for dps, I don't think banner will outweigh the massive scaling potential of ashen juggernaut + condemn
fringe marten
That's what I'm worried will happen, it won't be like "omg..necrolord is godmode" no. It'll just be like "well with this combination of soulbind abilities, once we reach renown 50...you can do amazing damage and have great defense for like 20 seconds every minute.." FUUUUUUUCK
frail wyvern
It makes most sense from a tuning point of view to make all 3 specs of a class bis in a single covenant I think
I know alot of people here say 'I want kyrian for x content, venthyr for y'
fringe marten
....and then 2 patches later "bron is now summonable in 20 globals..and scales with M+ key level" ..../crryyyyyyyy
digital hawk
fleshcraft will go largely unchanged imo
it works well for lots of other specs, just not for us
so that alone is already worse than kyrian phial and night fae blink/door of shadows
fringe marten
like even right now; once we get to...? Renown 34? If the bron summon wasn't such absolute insane trash, I'd swap to Mikanikos for M+. That driftglobe core thing is very cool I think; with the synergy of either the knockback from the phial, or the auto phial at 35% (if it doesn't put it on cooldown)
But nope...Basicbitch mastery buff wins~
frail wyvern
Coolest thing about necro is the abomination builder thing
fringe marten
DOn't even get me started on that, the kyrian version of that...path of ascension. Is an infurating waste of time...at best.
modern brook
i just started doing it
would be great if i didnt have to do world content to actually play
fringe marten
Brother stop please, save yourself.
Yeah..and then when you play. You don't play the character you've invested years of time into being good at...no...play this dumb pet person.
soft flower
Just buy the items off the innkeeper next to it for 5 of those badgy things
fringe marten
...but at least our mission table isn't full of limp dick trash now.
Dude Telethakas~ all I gotta' say. (and mikanikos..kleia..all of 'em now)
But legit if you haven't..look at telethakas' attack rating ...like WTF happened there? he's the hardest hitting unit in the game.
But yeah...Kleia, Croman..or even pelagos in the front line, Meatball...and then Mikanikos and either the melee guy that sends the phalanx out, or the chick who shoots the 400/500 damage spear.... will utterly demolish anything
modern brook
you've given the command table much more thought than i then
fringe marten
Yeah b ecause the units used to be so weak, I had to look at their stats..what they did..etc. Trying to 'win' the soul ash missions (when I cared about soul ash).
livid dawn
Bulldrome
fringe marten
There's a few of the kyrian units I still don't have....i guess they'll rando pop up in torghast 8's eventually??
I hope none of the units are locked behind the path of ascension...oh god.
pastel vector
Are the wowhead raid talents still accurate? i.e ITF and AM?
or are we just full Rav + Bolster now?
modern brook
both are sorta interchangeable
u can run itf am in keys with success
similarly u can run rav bolster into raid with success
frail wyvern
I got itf and bolster for progress, AM for parses
jagged pier
Are the wowhead raid talents still accurate? i.e ITF and AM?
you always run ITF in raid and your choose between bolster and AM depending on what u think you will need
frail wyvern
I think its quite a bit of personal preference with those though
modern brook
THe one time i tanked raid this teir so far i had exactly 1 other guy in melee with me and it was my cotank so i ended up running rav since ITF wasnt getting full value
frail wyvern
Sounds like a wise decision
pastel vector
Am looks like it would work better having crafted TW yes?
Whats the arguement for either or? is it boss dependant or?
frail wyvern
I'm not sure anything other than TW is worth using for raid
pastel vector
no no ik, i have TW now
jagged pier
AM will give you more damage and bolster will give you more defense because it gives you far more block
some bosses you only tank the boss for 2 charges of SB others you are tanking the entire time
pastel vector
Thats what im trying to understand, the common consensus appears to be we are a low dmg tank compared to the others, but we have good survivability
jagged pier
we are strogn because of SB
and with bolster u can get like really high blocked hits
in general if u havent run the raid before and are progressing you shoulkd run bolster it will make your time alot easier
once you know the fights and ar used to them u can take AM and push damage
pastel vector
i've DPS'd the raid, this wil be the first tank night so
frail wyvern
I would agree with Jake, play safe for the first raid and take bolster
pastel vector
too easy, makes sense to me
vague jetty
Tbh unless we are pushing a tight enrage or timer based fight, I feel no need to go am. Even with am your damaged compared to other tanks (in raid) is pretty lol.
jagged pier
taking AM wont make or break fights for your group so you should take bolster anyway, if you dont know the damage breka down etc and take AM it can lead to alot of trouble on yourself
pastel vector
lol yeah thats why i was asking. Kind of a, "do we buff our dmg since its already low, or strengthen the defensive part of our kit"
vague jetty
I mean, its not like its bad to buff your damage
My personal thought is just
Unless my group is like, right on the line of a tight timer
I go bolster
minus inerva
there is nothing wrong with going am
at all
it is just my own personal preference
pastel vector
sounds like bolster is just overall a better option
uneven mason
THe one time i tanked raid this teir so far i had exactly 1 other guy in melee w...
I run rav all the time
pastel vector
gonna end up feeling it out. new build roster and me swapping to tank so, we'll see how it turns out
amber herald
do auto attacks count as spells with devastator talent?
strong forum
👀
amber herald
with 90% uptime
strong forum
That's quite big
jagged pier
of Nome as your here i noticed the other day Boosts gone kyrian
looks like necro dream is over
amber herald
NF kultiran soon to be meta? 😛
jagged pier
i actually thought i was gunna see him one day on top of all fights showing us the mega brain necro strat
uneven mason
so it should proc from our indom heals then?
signal plover
"herbs"
frail wyvern
Bit of parsley mate
strong forum
so it should proc from our indom heals then?
Sounds like it should ye
amber herald
It doesn't work with leech but maybe
modern brook
what about ip
uneven mason
I guess I'll test it tonight
IP is an absorb
so no, sadly, Mwahi answered this yesterday
amber herald
I'll go hit a target dummy for a bit see what happens
ok it's proccing like crazy
proud frigate
From indom?
amber herald
yep looks it
proud frigate
😍
amber herald
hard to say but it was proccing as I spent rage
is that... better than burrs then?
definitely defensively
two finesse slots though
fringe marten
...well guess what suckers! We got pelagos's...oh..yeah..3% magic damage reduction.. Gonna' go seethe in prot warrior in the corner.
(it's not bad but ..yeah..)
amber herald
there's always furrygang
fringe marten
You shut your whore mouth.
amber herald
meow
maiden ravine
5% free haste for warriors, woo
fringe marten
Prot 4 Life! Kyrian for... until the moment something is actually better.
amber herald
woof
frail wyvern
I'm getting 20% extra stats from flask/food I think 😂
fringe marten
Oddly enough I was thinking; the highest DPS parses in the world for ACTUAL dps players. Are going to HAVE to include a necrolord banner at some point right?
Does 'any' necrolord have the banner? or just tank specs?
amber herald
finesse are pretty Zzzz too tbf
uneven mason
Covenants have a Class ability and a covenant ability
uneven mason
finesse are pretty Zzzz too tbf
all of protections conduits are hot garbage tbh
fringe marten
So if my guild had a warrior other than me...they could have a banner, if he possibly for WHATEVER REASON went necrolord?
amber herald
guess I'll just the DR the shit out of everything with the shockwave one 
uneven mason
they would have banner
and be laughed at
since no class really scales super well with crit atm
and its shitty positional requirement
fringe marten
...so if I literally did not give one FUCK about M+ and only cared about raid tanking and was ok with losing the phial; I could actually be a better asset to the guild by being necrolord?
What's the banner do?
uneven mason
20% max HP, and then a scaling crit dmg buff
uneven mason
No you wouldn't be an asset
because they'd literally have to run to you
oh, you CAN get 27% mainstat
for 20s
fringe marten
no; i'd give them banner then leap back or intervene back to boss or something
uneven mason
by using a conduit and one of the soulbinds
fringe marten
ahh.
uneven mason
but their soulbinds are hot garbage for prot as well..
fringe marten
Yeah but this is all theory around the utility of the banner in it's current state.
uneven mason
I mean one of them is ok (15% shield when you drop below 50% HP every 30s)
Banner is garbage
fringe marten
my covenant is nigh irrelevant for raid tanking, the phial lets me dink a few raid mechanics but who cares.
uneven mason
if they made it 5 people and not have to stand in the damn buff.
uneven mason
2
fringe marten
...
fringe marten
bruh
uneven mason
the atrocity it is
fringe marten
bruh
uneven mason
the digging insult
fringe marten
that's a LITERAL JOKE
amber herald
how do you compare soulbinds on raidbots?
sweet summit
top gear
uneven mason
yeah that
sweet summit
unlock all soulbinds
fringe marten
I guess if it was raid wide, combined with the % mainstat/etc...it would be in every dps'ers "if this is in your raid..." and then they'd have been telling me to go necro at launch of SL.
..two people..
Blizzard..?
I don't even.
uneven mason
yeah can't give warriors strong utility
imagine if it was Skull Banner Reborn
kidding it is
maiden ravine
the only soulbind a tank would go is Heirmir. 3% str/3% armor, plus the 4% damage serrated spaulders gives
uneven mason
No, but we'd be part of the Firemage M+ Meta
uneven mason
anyone who has a strong Crit CD
fringe marten
"wait..combust is auto cri...uh oh"
fringe marten
...but then like..
he would die
because "threat should be a thing in shadowlands 'laughs in tom cruise meme'"
uneven mason
mobs would be dead
fringe marten
(in M+ setting/etc...you would 100% have to have challenging shout ready..etc)
uneven mason
the insane level of ignite damage would melt stuff before it could catch a mage who has shimmer
since you can shimmer while casting
fringe marten
So we have a banner, on a 3 minute cd..that hits 2 people. Vs a covenant that has a fox..dragon? blink form..that's on a what? 0 second cd? 1 ? something like that. Has no cd? teleports then to dalaran?
uneven mason
2min CD
for soulshape
lasts 12 seconds, the blink has a 3s CD
so you can blink 4x
fringe marten
(I'm being sarcastic, but I thought something about soulshape allowed it to refresh itself or something?)
AH ok; so you get 4 blinks then it's on 2 mins?
fringe marten
I remember being night fae for 3 seconds during leveling, used ancient shockwave..was cool. blinked once? i think?
fringe marten
it legit heal..? really?
uneven mason
so you can Teleport over bad shit
amber herald
(not with herb though, have to go the other way to get 2 endurance)
uneven mason
if you soulbind into it.
fringe marten
Blizzard..
fringe marten
Y u do dis? (the phial is great too, just saying..it's OBVIOUS necrolord signature is dogshit)
uneven mason
phial is 55% heal with debuff removal
amber herald
rage one and shield wall one
uneven mason
and 350 mastery for 10s
amber herald
I run wall legendary
fringe marten
Right; I'm basically just comparing ANYTHING? to necrolord? pretty sure that's getting retuned somewhat.
amber herald
it does have the best shield mog
fringe marten
really with the conduit comes down to 1.25m?
uneven mason
I don't think they're going to return shit
amber herald
lets not forget
uneven mason
IT is
not worth it
IF I could use the Xmog as another covenant
I'd go Necrolord then swap back to Kyrian or NF
fringe marten
when you get the mogs you can't use them if you're another covenant?
uneven mason
nope
fringe marten
ARE YOU SRS BRO?
uneven mason
100%
uneven mason
If you leave your covenant you can't even Xmog your weapons you got with anima orbs
fringe marten
???
amber herald
you do get it on all your alts
if they're the same armour class
I have a 55 pala with the full kyrian set /shrug
uneven mason
interesting
amber herald
(still crap though)
uneven mason
sounds like a bug
frail wyvern
Alt is the same covenant?
fringe marten
or would I not be able to mog because I"m kyrian?
amber herald
yeah alt has to be same covenant
frail wyvern
Booooo
uneven mason
No, they wanted "meaningful choices" to be a thing in SL
Which I'm sure someone there understands that choices are an illusion
I could understand it if say you were a UDK
frail wyvern
Xmog comes under meaningful choice category now? 😂
uneven mason
pick any covenant and still do competitive DPS
Covenants do
Xmog is tied to covenant
so yes.
If that is what you REALLY want
sweet kayak
I just did 3 callings, and got 3 Inspiring Presence in each chest 😮 is this normal?
uneven mason
then get it
uneven mason
TBH Protection doesn't heavily rely on covenant until the fringe levels of content.
its nice
visual drift
I could need help with items from vault again-.-
fringe marten
If I could get necrolord mog, by making an alt and doing the necrolord shit. I would make an alt for the first time in WoW since BC (when I started).
visual drift
amber herald
How to get a definitive answer on herbs vs burrs? I'm too small brain to do the sim correctly
fringe marten
You know..to be incentivized to try out their covenent system, and make an alt..and play more. Like THEY WANTED.
frail wyvern
That trinket is big dick
visual drift
can it absorb up to 150k with 5 enemys?
fringe marten
Oh grats on scale.
visual drift
i have 203 anima emitter and 207 pvp haste trinket
visual drift
So i go for trinket?
fringe marten
Irrelevant, you get the scale.
amber herald
there's like three tank trinkets worth anything and that's one of them
fringe marten
Do you do M+ at all?
amber herald
absolutely get the scale
visual drift
i do only m+
signal plover
Scale 100%
fringe marten
CERO contest
visual drift
Okay i get the scale. But can you explain how it works? does it stack?
fringe marten
I think he knows, and came in here to flex his vault choice LOL
signal plover
Sus
mellow patio
It doesn’t just stack linearly, but the shield does increase per enemy
As does the damage
visual drift
nah i have no clue about chosing trinkets
fringe marten
I think he's legit trolling.
visual drift
So the absorbtion is fix on 30k?
fringe marten
If you aren't; the scale is very very good.
When you engage a pack of trash in M+...use it on cooldown. Look at it's heal% and damage% in your overall. You will be pleasantly surprised.
visual drift
i took the scale i get it, even if i'm close to pick the weapon
wait a moment, is the heal% the barrier?
fringe marten
you will have a ton of opportunities to get a decent weapon; that scale you can only get near that ilevel from your vault..so the vault's BEST possible options. that is one of them.
It has both a damage and absorb component, both are very strong.
visual drift
hm i see
amber herald
I've been clearing at least 4 mythics on 3 tanks since the start of the expansion and not seen it drop yet 🙁
fringe marten
I have a 184?
uneven mason
you will have a ton of opportunities to get a decent weapon; that scale you can ...
lolololololololol
visual drift
i was farming it as well last weeks and havn't a drop. But i like weapons since i was fine with the trinkets, i even got the emitter on 203 and was happy
amber herald
I get my druid healer to go guardian and he gets IQD twice
fringe marten
..fair enough ikari. You won't have a 'ton' of opportunities for a good weapon. But it's obvious you're pvp'ing that means you can get a 220 weapon easily.
amber herald
emitter and scale are bis as far as dungeon drops are concerned
not sure about the raid drops
visual drift
i don't raid, thats the matter^^"
uneven mason
I mean the opportunities are there
uneven mason
but they just don't pan out, I was using a 197 pvp bought weapon which replaced my crafted weapon, I have a 213 now, because I got pity loot by one of my raiders who had a 213 MH already.
fringe marten
I've been using the mythic 226 version of the gluttonous spike for 2 weeks of dungeons now. I really like it. it's like 3 to 4'ish% damage and 10 to 12% zonewide healing. so for a damage/survivability trink it's solid. But it only became solid AT 226. The heroic one sucked.
visual drift
i'm such a noob with trinkets
fringe marten
(the heal is a multiplier of the damage so when the damage went up to the 226 level, the healing suddenly went from crappy to quite solid..the damage is ehh I have better damage trinkets.)
frail wyvern
I have the 213 spike, only using it because I dont have something better yet. Its not awful, but not great either
Theres certainly worse trinkets around
ocean yoke
ive been stuck with the 213 spike and a 223 viscera
visual drift
okay so i stay with spike with my premades, and for randoms i use the 200er alar heart
fringe marten
because of the way the heal works if you can get the mythic one it suddenly becomes a solid healing trinket, and 'ok' damage.
ocean yoke
all about the damage
fringe marten
ohh man I have a 207 viscera and I hate it, it's to terrible. But just the str alone on the 223 might be good if you have no other competitive option.
oh the damage on viscera is? ok
ocean yoke
i got the cheat death off sun king last night tho. the damage is really meh
i might be remembering wrong but i think even on single target spike did overall more
fringe marten
8 min cd.
I had it in my vault this week. It was 226 sunking trinket..vs 226 belt.
13 ilevles on belt. so I took it. I wanted the sunking toy
I wanna use it on CD in M+ as some burst dps/free heal.
But I'm wondering if it would ACTUALLY save you, IE the healing/damage block would be high enough.
ocean yoke
im planning on running it on sire since my guild is still working through that
fringe marten
if I drop into a pack and let them 'kill' me to trigger it, I dunno if I'll be able to be healed quick enough after Unless I jump outta' the pack insta.
visual drift
visvera i had last week on 220 but choose the ring with crit /vers
ocean yoke
but yeah checked my logs from yesterday on hungering the 213 spike did more than the higher viscera
fringe marten
yup
ocean yoke
ive just been ungodly unlucky with trinkets
fringe marten
the glut spike is actually 'ok' it's just the the mythic one suddenly jumped up in value vs the other 220+ trinks I had due to how the heal works.
amber herald
wonder if spike will proc herbs 🤔
frail wyvern
All about the herbs with you 😂
amber herald
free 5% haste is pretty sick
amber herald
probably the same unless someone says otherwise
I'm getting wildly different uptimes on it (only on dummy)
range of 20%-90%
fringe marten
to give a comparative. I don't pop last stand (bolster) on cd immediately, but pretty close to it in M+. at the end of a dungeon the healing on the mythic glut spike is about the same, more, or barely under the last stand heal.
ocean yoke
and for aggroing everything around during world quests so i cant mount up and leave
visual drift
Okay, thank you guys for the help. I really appreciate this discord and all the help
frail wyvern
That too
fringe marten
Yup..it's the new spores trinket in a way
but the spores would trigger while you were mounted
you could run around do free damage
frail wyvern
I always remove the spike buff now when I leave combat out in the world
fringe marten
In torg if you get the? the oppressor powers? whatever it is. The guy who if you dodge all his mechanics you don't need to take the 'cure' and you can get the 'when you first hit a mob do X shadow damage and silence for 4 seconds"
if you get that ability, the little aoe pulse from glut spike just kills everything as you walk around
or does a ton of damage at least; combine it with any 'when you first hit a mob do X" and it gets kinda' fun. But anything in torghast is OP.
undone jacinth
whats are yalls opinions on what you do when your guild starts adding extra raid time
blissful thicket
just hearth
woeful vine
like extending the raid times ?
solemn magnet
Either be okay with it or find a new guild
frail wyvern
Extending existing raids or extra nights?
fringe marten
we're a 2 day guild..that's now 3 day. At the start of any new tier we do a little extra. that's what's SUPPOSED to happen. Because our guild/raid leads were really pumped to play shadowlands. When nathria released...we were SEVEN FUCKING DAYS. for ...a while
ocean yoke
Also what for? like are you having single digit wipes and want to clear or just for more head into wall fights
fringe marten
Yo FUCK that.
frail wyvern
7 day raider, sounds exciting...😂
fringe marten
I was gonna' Gquit after they were thinking about doing it the third week. and they culled it back to normal.
frail wyvern
How far did you get in 2 weeks of nightly raiding?
strong forum
whats are yalls opinions on what you do when your guild starts adding extra raid...
Don't have to think about it cuz I'm the one deciding it
jagged pier
id raid every night as theres nothing else to do
fringe marten
Now; if you guys are adding 1 day...and everyone is cool. Sure. But understand you're setting a precedent...and that precedent usually sees your casual'ish members get benched, and or quit.
undone jacinth
they often go overtime at the end, which I'm kinda fine with if we are making prog or whatever
but they want to add 30min at the start now too
and I'm like...
fringe marten
naw, don't change start times/etc. People have schedules set around it.
undone jacinth
the RL is really good at what he does but he's also kinda toxic and I just dunno if I'm gonna keep enjoying raiding that much
fringe marten
Just add another day that everyone is willing to make, you can even make it a short evening.
like "we were close to killing sun king..let's do another 1 or 2 hours on X day and down it, and we'll quit. if we don't down it...we try again next week"
frail wyvern
I think we did only 2 extra nights so far this tier, and they weren't mandatory we filled empty spots with pugs just to get more practice
fringe marten
But if you have an established raiding guild, messing with start times is an issue. Mostly because..you'll never start on the new time. Everyone has worked their schedules around to the time you've been used to for a while. You screw with that...they either aren't making it..or won't show or whatever.
undone jacinth
yeah we are making good prog but it's concerning
feel like it might lead to ppl leaving
fringe marten
They're hungry..close to whatever they're after..
so they wanna push. Not everyone in guild might be that hungry
ocean yoke
assuming you raid in the evening/night too its just screwy since people get off work right before so if its changed that screws it all
strong forum
The only circumstance I will extend my raid is if you're progging last boss and you're a pulls away of killing it
ocean yoke
like if my team moved raid that much i wouldnt be able to make it
fringe marten
Dude. Democracy...have them ask the guild in a discord meeting. See how people really feel...etc.
fringe marten
Starting early just won't happen.
strong forum
There's a reason why it's 2day raiding guild
chilly brook
Extending raid nights is ass
Also 3 day is ass
Fuck this shit
Imagine being 3 day guild and only being 3/10
strong forum
I can only see myself raiding 3 days, is if people are actually good
Aka atleast 8/10 by now
chilly brook
Best part? It was a 2 day guild in Nyalotha
uneven mason
The only circumstance I will extend my raid is if you're progging last boss and ...
☝️ I've been pretty set in stone with my guild that we start at 8 and end at 11, occasionally we inch over due to some fights being 5+ minutes long, or if people are clamouring for another pull, but I gots work at 5AM haha.
chilly brook
uneven mason
yup
chilly brook
I yeet out when raid is over lmao
uneven mason
do the readycheck check
strong forum
I don't enjoy raiding enough, or give a fuck enough about World ranking
To try hard raiding
chilly brook
I'm thinking I'll probably be done with this team when this tier is over
3 days just isn't it
Plus all the other things
solemn magnet
I only raid 1 night for 3 hours. I wish it was 2 nights because I wanna prog more, but idk how much further my group can really prog
vast ridge
6 hours is the sweet spot
undone jacinth
i'm 2 days 6 hours yeah but they wanna make tonight 4 hours instead of 3
and im just like
flat marten
How come most guides recommend the wall and thunderlors for legendaries, but no mention of the leaper which seems good for kiting m+ in general and very good in necrotic? Am I just using it as a crutch?
undone jacinth
I dont wanna :/
ocean yoke
you usually dont need more than one leap for the kiting
assuming you use intervene too
chilly brook
How come most guides recommend the wall and thunderlors for legendaries, but no ...
You shouldn't need more than one leap
solemn magnet
Necrotic is once every 9 weeks?
chilly brook
i'm 2 days 6 hours yeah but they wanna make tonight 4 hours instead of 3
Why tho
flat marten
I guess I'm using leap too liberally or badly then :(
undone jacinth
the RL is a maniac and wants faster progress
wants CE as fast as possible
but he's also good at his job so it's like
idk
signal plover
4 hours is pretty rough when you're not used to it
Would be better off adding a different night at 2 hours imo
vast ridge
2 nights can be kinda tough for prog. Takes half your schedule for the week to farm
signal plover
Not at all tbh
chilly brook
Adding more hours won't fix people not playing well
vast ridge
Just depends on how hung up you are on quick prog
signal plover
There's a threshold where you just extend
solemn magnet
Do you guys take a long break in the middle of your 3 hr?
signal plover
But yeah, def depends on your expected prog pace.
ocean yoke
if anything adding another hour depending how late you raid may make people play worse
chilly brook
Doing 3 nights a week has been more headache than anything with people who cant do mechanics
vast ridge
Hard to make longer than 3 hours a night work on weekdays when you’re dealing with different time zones and working people
undone jacinth
2 nights can be kinda tough for prog. Takes half your schedule for the week to f...
I mean we are at 6 atm.. that cant be bad timing for 2 day... like its CE timing still I think?
vast ridge
That’s really good prog
chilly brook
But lots of 2 night a week guilds get CE usually
undone jacinth
and we will get another kill tonight probably
vast ridge
Def a good pace. Adding more time sounds crazy if you’re that successful at 6
undone jacinth
we have some rly good players mechanically but the RL just wants everything faster
if literally anyone makes a mistake its a big deal
idk I just always have a play for fun and be good at the same time mindset
not sure if I wanna be that hardcore
had enough of shouting kids in my lifetime lol
vast ridge
For sure. We are a casual 6 hour group. Would be nice to get CE but prob not happening. Half the force not motivated to get better at their rotation or study a fight outside raid hours
But we are comfy 3/10 and okay with that for now
chilly brook
Heh
signal plover
2d/6hr feels like what current CE timing is designed around
chilly brook
3/10 at 9 hours a week
signal plover
You gotta remember we're most likely gonna get more nerfs to CN in a few more weeks
vast ridge
A good raid leader can carry a lot of slack lol. That’s kinda what we have going for us
undone jacinth
ours is very good and anyone making mistakes is benched lol so theres that
'dont make me get the feral druid'
I'm literally used as a warning
vast ridge
Oh damn lol ours isn’t that hard
We could use more accountability
Some people don’t even do a weekly 14. No effort put in to gear or learn outside official hours
Can be slightly annoying
undone jacinth
thats the craziest thing
our requirements were only weekly 12
until this week
where its 1 14
im like bruh how can u only expect people to do 12s then bench them after 2 deaths
vast ridge
I personally think if you aren’t doing 4 14s you prob don’t need to be raiding mythic
But o well we are casual
undone jacinth
the parse whore returns
undone jacinth
seeds come as convoke is up
rip
1 melee on the whole list of seed carriers
this little druid sucker
uneven mason
cuz you got dem dashes
undone jacinth
yea dash is kinda borken
uneven mason
and soulshape
undone jacinth
would very much like an immunity like the others though
uneven mason
also cancel cat form, hit convoke while in soulshape and you'll boom yourself with healing
its good
just chunks your parse
ocean yoke
bear form will totally save you
undone jacinth
healing aint my issue haha
and theres no world where im convoking in anything other than bite mode
ocean yoke
1 million aint shit
undone jacinth
doing damage at range is for pussies
undone jacinth
im a feral but i'll take the note
its whatever just want council to die so i can pump some sludgefist
convoking some pillars
mental scarab
12 sec SB cd^^
mighty cairn
raiding on saturday morning with a cup of coffee sounds pretty comfy
mental scarab
thats not bad hrs tbh 😮
mighty cairn
if people manage to wake up early enough
mental scarab
early
chilly brook
I mean I'm west coast