exactly
#protection
strong forum
thing is that even bad hunters do 2k dps more than average anything else
undone jacinth
that’s another way they made tanks lives worse
make the most braindead specs good
Having to tell 10 boomkins a day to use trees
and explain why it’s not a dps loss
just to try and get them to be a better player, while being flamed by them
strange lintel
does anyone know whats the max range for commanding shout ?
strong forum
40 yards
sick sentinel
at least hunter is known for its aggro abilities
FD and MD
getting them to use it right can be another thing but
exotic belfry
Whats the best soulbind for prot?
sweet summit
kyrian?
exotic belfry
sorry for venthyr
sweet summit
nadija currently
exotic belfry
and any conduits there are a must go?
sweet summit
no our conduits are mostly kinda bad
unnerving focus>stalwart guardian>brutal vitality
the rally finesse one is solid
for potency, id honestly take show of force (maybe ashen juggernaut if youre using condemn a lot)
sweet summit
?
undone jacinth
the only thing she has is thrill seeker which is a bait?
exotic belfry
nice thanks! it seems like people go through the potency conduit instead of the endurance one first?
undone jacinth
what else do you use her for
sweet summit
thill seeker is not bait?
undone jacinth
you get stacks when stuff dies
sweet summit
its better than shade shit from theotar in m+
undone jacinth
it procs out of combat all the time
sweet summit
and draven doesnt have an extra conduit yet
exotic belfry
So when draven have a extra conduit he will be better?
sweet summit
it does not
exotic belfry
and should i then go only endurance route on him? for nadjia it seem to be potency route?
sweet summit
for nadjia i'd go endurance. duelist isnt great in m+ i feel, and the cc reduction from the potency path is not very useful
extra stats from food/flask/echant is better
imo
draven is very solid if:
you can stand still for the majority of the pull (tanky benefit)
or you dont drop below 50% HP very often (tanky benefit)
or you interrupt a lot (good for dps benefit)
service in stone is alright passive DR below 40%
exotic belfry
alright thanks for the help!
Kinda a lot of ways and builds you can go with these conduits, so hard to know what the best is
sweet summit
tarren mill people 
lofty widget
😦
sweet summit
its ok im also on tarren mill 
undone jacinth
sheep!
blazing condor
tauren milf?
fringe marten
Had to finish it up on a shitty week..but just got KSM season 1 finally.
sweet summit
grats mate! 
dark lark
I grinded out KSM last week, only to realize that the achievement is account wide (I already got it on my FOTM dh alt)
I just wanted to do it to say I could
dark lark
I'm a dumbass that has all six tanks leveled, but I only ended up gearing two
fringe marten
I woulda' finished last week but didn't really start messing with keys until later in the week, so ended up with only 4 out of the 8 done last week.
Yeah..you geared up 1 right one. and one very wrong one.
sick sentinel
i literal still only have 1 level 60 and is this toon
dark lark
Been protwar for the majority of my wow career, but then decided to go FOTM Veng for pushing keys in SL. Then it turns out our raid needs battle shout so here I am
sick sentinel
can't be bothered leveling more toons gearin them out
dark lark
But so far, the only reason why my group doesn't time keys is not because of my Veng vs Protwar, but overall group things such as DPS CD's, kick/aoe interrupts, routes, and my overall shotcalling
proper haven
Dumb question time. When both shield block and IP are active, which has priority for incoming blockable damage?
dark lark
Shield block first, then Ignore Pain
sweet summit
shield block
proper haven
Awesome ty
dark lark
Someone else can correct me, but I believe it's if a mob hits you for 1000, shield block will reduce by X damage (ex: 38%). That 720 damage is then absorbed by Ignore Pain for 50% of that attack, so it's now 360. Then your armor is taken into account (ex: 55%), so now it's 162 damage.
The example numbers are just taken from my own character screen
sweet summit
something like that yeah 
dark lark
something like that yeah <:peepostudy:617259554530656262>
TLDR: shield block first, then ignore pain, and you don't take damage
last mason
i feel like stradama nerf was a prank to see how many people forget aboutt he 3rd boss bbeing giga hard also
dark lark
Unless it's Sire, fuck that guy
chrome star
Are tank buffs coming?
After the MDI and seeing what they have been doing with dps, what is the likely hood of seeing tank balancing
blazing condor
im sure theyre planning on looking into that even before mdi
last mason
are u guys still maxing m+ vault this week
sweet summit
In just going for two options xd
eternal pilot
what trinkets are you guys preferring?
undone jacinth
scale and whatever I get at decent ilvl
eternal pilot
i have 203 hakkar trinket and a bunch of sub 200 trinkets from dungeons
and im liking the pvp flat haste + str proc
sweet summit
Alacrity is nice
undone jacinth
yup I like that one too
woulda like to get it on my pala but really dont wanna pvp
account wide pvp rating pls xd
eternal pilot
ive contemplated alacrty v anima field for the flat str over haste
but its 184 anima v 213 alacrity
hhave a 200 viscera but it just seems garbage
sweet summit
Viscera is eh
Dont like it
Id take the alacrity there
Field emitter is very noice, but not when youre kiting as much when necrotic is a thing
mighty cairn
do other prot warriors gearing with pvp use conquest on 1h/shield/armor and open their vault in arms spec to roll for a 2h weapon?
or am i doing things suboptimally
sweet summit
Possible to do it that way, but if you open as arms you cant get scale
And idk how high your rating is, a big shield is very epic
mighty cairn
ye i'm rolling with a 213 neck/ring/1h/shield from pvp right now, hoping to push 220 gear this week
but my arms weapon is only 207
sweet summit
Imean what ever is more important to you is the right choice tbh
mighty cairn
true true
it's crazy without pvp gear i'd still be using a 200 weapon/shield after multiple heroic reclears and a lot of +14s
unlucky
sweet summit
Ye it sucks
shut summit
yea ive only had 3 pieces drop from mythic whole time, rest is pvp/vault/boe, shit is weird
patent osprey
True, i also only have gotten 3 pieces from mythic this whole time. Rest is pvp + 4 BOES + vault
sweet summit
Luckily my vaults have all been juicy this far
undone jacinth
was thinking of quitting raiding and just letting the vault carry me to 9.1 tbh
feels like a lot of time investment for a title
sweet summit
Idk i think the raid has good fights even if the loot is lacking i still enjoy it
undone jacinth
yea my motivation is getting to sire
for the fight
but it feels like we are just out gearing a lot of the bosses
heavy sail
Castle nathria is such a nice raid too
Sucks that the rewards for clearing it are basically non-existent
grand drum
I got 1 item in a full heroic lockout this week. Definitely sucks
fierce tendon
can you ring of peace the dogs in huntsman still?
weak dawn
True, i also only have gotten 3 pieces from mythic this whole time. Rest is pvp ...
Really been enjoying your new videos, man!
patent osprey
thanks so much ^.^ man I realized I suck so much at commentary. @chilly brook is much better at it than me in his vid lol
but the sanguine 19 there is so much going on lol
weak dawn
Ha! I really enjoyed just seeing some keys from the Prot perspective. I don’t play seriously/competitively anymore so I found the lack of commentary actually a perk for the ones I watched because I could just watch the gameplay. I subbed so I’ll keep an eye out for new stuff!
vestal moat
Would you g uys use a 220 Sire trinket over 210 scale? For keys.
patent osprey
no
scale does damage as well as shield
helps with aggro
and just kills stuff :) more damage = faster keys
undone jacinth
straight up heals for more on aoe too I think
wicked sphinx
Quick question. Can Shield Block negate the damage from Frieda's Soul Spikes?
potent anvil
@patent osprey big fan
patent osprey
@potent anvil I am a big fan of u LOL
potent anvil
vague jetty
Inerva feels awful as prot imo
exotic nebula
how high should carnage stacks go on tanks in p2 of sire D. in normal? I'm getting 4, is my off tank not picking up the sword mob fast enough when we switch?
signal plover
Inerva feels awful as prot imo
On mythic? Felt a lot better after I went to AM instead of bolster and focused IP more. Spell reflecting the tank add cast also helped (can usually get one in before you have to SR add cast)
golden tapir
@night tusk I dont think many exist atm just because key farming is so needed with vault and m+ with no spear or cleanse sucks
How is the dps trink off inerva(heroic)? Just got it and the one from hungering destroyer.
patent osprey
Any Venthyr Prots out there?
Hello Bad'jer! I am a venthyr prot
Condemn does do a decent amount of ST threat
but I wouldnt ever use it on aoe
cold belfry
but I wouldnt ever use it on aoe
big fan of you I got KSM couple of weeks ago 🙂
night tusk
@patent osprey Was tanking Sire and when the other tank took taunted i regained threat by just using condom in P1
patent osprey
yeah definte could happen
patent osprey
big fan of you I got KSM couple of weeks ago 🙂
Thanks man ❤️ appreciate it
night tusk
crazy. yeah never did enough threat to peel boss off another tank after they taunted
mighty valley
hell yes 207 scale boiiiiiiiiiiiis
patent osprey
HUGEEE @mighty valley
My monk got a 226 scale in my cache
Im sad 😦 my war doesnt have it
crude pecan
is tanking with a dagger viable?
wicked lantern
Why did prot get shafted with their conduits and legendaries?
jagged pier
i mean we have good leggos and okay conduits that have synergy with our class so we didnt get shafted 🤷
craggy pilot
just decided i wanted to switch to Venthyr, until i remembered how strong Kyrian is for M+ Tanking which i do on the side. Is venthyr viable at all for Prot M+?
craggy pilot
damn, kinda sucks, i feel Spear is really strong for keeping aggro in groups with no hunter
jagged pier
it is but its not needed
craggy pilot
i basically only do Revenge when i get proc, should i just use it more often?
jagged pier
thats wrong u shouldnt revenge only when its free now its our hardest hitting ability
jagged pier
u revenge whenever you can
karmic scroll
yelling at my monitor seems to help with aggro
patent osprey
man gonna miss spear so much tho 😦
Do not worry my son, Welcome to the dark side of the force 😉
mighty valley
Prot Venthyr Gang 💪
jagged pier
after i lvl my druid and ele shammy my venthyr warrior is next
quaint glade
Hi guys what trinkets shall I aim for a m+
stray gazelle
Do not worry my son, Welcome to the dark side of the force 😉
What’s wrong with bastion prot?
echo egret
Question on Plaguefall M+ : with equally placed pride on the route, is it worth killing much more on 1st room and skip the 2nd room with all the bombers and bombs on the floor ?
Usually, trash is harder and harder as you move into the dungeon
jagged pier
how come no one uses heavy repercusions in raid?
becuase its not as good as bolster
jagged pier
Question on Plaguefall M+ : with equally placed pride on the route, is it worth ...
never had a problem with that trash but pick a route u like to do
craggy pilot
anyone else having issues with Revenge? the proc seems really bugged for me currently, the button glows up, but i cant use it unless i have rage, and it still consumes rage
and when it glows up, if i use Shield Slam, the glow disappears
and seems Shield Slam is free instead
jagged pier
ss is free
craggy pilot
did it change recently?
jagged pier
no
craggy pilot
the description still states Revenge only
jagged pier
regardless of whats happening to u SS is always free
craggy pilot
oh ye true 😄
jagged pier
never heard of or seen that bug
craggy pilot
but still when i SS, the glow on Revenge disappears
and i cant click Revenge, unless i have rage
and then it consumes the rage
craggy pilot
i just tried on dummy
revenge glows up, i click imediately, it takes rage, and still glows
jagged pier
🤷 never seen it cant comment
blazing condor
maybe wrong chat to ask but is there anything worth saving conquest for when gearing (not primarily a pvper) or just buy for ilvl upgrade then rank it up when needed
deft vessel
Folks, I'M SO ANNOYED AT THE TRINKET SITUATION, what would you use, the 184 anime emiter or the 207 thing
I'm at 27.12% haste unbuffed if it matters
strong forum
Prolly viscera
errant oriole
so how come some prot wars are enchanting for mastery if thats our worse stat?
strong forum
its our worst stat defensively
our best stat offensively
they prolly just enchant what sims tell them
errant oriole
true
btw with booming voice do we keep shout on cd or hold it for something special?
jagged pier
CD
errant oriole
alrighty
sorry learning prot cause my raid teams need a shout so swapping from bear lol
_>
deft vessel
Prolly viscera
cheers, I'm actively running stone legion even on normal every week to fish for that one, as I think it'll be better than viscera , but yeah, unhappy with trinket selection 😦
iron crystal
How important is shield for prot. Is t ur biggest piece?
strong forum
its your single most important item
iron crystal
Ok figured. I can but 226 from arena currently have a 184 haha
Was gonna start doing keys as prot
Have the stone legion generals trinket I assume that’s pretty good
strong forum
ye
heavy sail
I’m finally working on a horde alt to unlock allied races so I can switch
It’s just so hard getting a team together for any kind of content alliance side, I tasted the forbidden fruit
Nom and his legion of furries have opened my third eye
sick sentinel
is the ice on final NW at end an enrage thing
not the freeze you to the ground ring
frail wyvern
it's when people come back up from the teleport thing
sick sentinel
oh, and you cant really control where it does the ice patches?
just, don't stand in it, does some frost dmg every second, maybe a -20% move speed
frail wyvern
they should run straight to the corner after coming up
it will drop out of the way then
strong forum
The person coming back from the exile has like 5 seconds to run into a corner and drop it off
It's on a timer on them
Nothing you can do as a tank
Entirely up to the dps players
sick sentinel
yeah i legit have no idea what goes on when the person gets sent down, something about they run down a hallway
frail wyvern
it's a gauntlet with swirlies they have to dodge :p
sick sentinel
yup, swirlies is the new catch all term for damage for me now
anything on the ground is a swirly boi
tardy sequoia
guys how do you deal with inquisitor sigar on HoA? adds are harming dps and challenging shout is on 4 min cd
there are a lot of mobs
bitter crest
There is not much you can do. I kick and reflect the inquisitor as often as i can. The dps has to deal with most of the adds themselves. I never had to shout there. Maybe it's an healer issue?
tardy sequoia
but i instantly aggro him, try to aggro the mobs but some mob always manage to escape
strong forum
They fixate aswell
It's not just aggro
I have 2 shamans so they just use their earth eles so I never have to deal with this room
tardy sequoia
because we wiped in that room and dps after left told me to kill myself
astral crystal
lol
tardy sequoia
so i tried to grasp the positivity in that message and see where I could have mistaken
astral crystal
nah there's only so much you can do in that room in terms of threat, dps have to turn on their brains and move around a bit
tardy sequoia
got it thanks
blazing condor
Punish on sludge instead of devastator?
blazing condor
yeah i overhyped the dmg a little
cosmic vapor
hey, worth using condemn in m+ instead of ignorepain?
spice mortar
undone jacinth
hey, worth using condemn in m+ instead of ignorepain?
Not on aoe
cosmic vapor
i though so...my friend is always using it all the time if he can ... his argument is im not dying for that.. but he dont see that healer is prio healing him bcs of that
and what is the overall uptime of ignore pain for whole dung +- ?
he had like 10% its so low
undone jacinth
depends on key level, you don’t measure IP by up time and the condemn thing won’t be that big of a deal but he’d probs do more damage by just revenging
amount absorbed and amount casted would be the metrics
sleek dune
i have been spamming spire with no luck for Thunderlords, is the wall close enough in m+ that it will do for normal keys / pugging?
undone jacinth
yes
sleek dune
cool, run 15 spires so far and bored silly with the place
undone jacinth
don’t stress about it, if I could refund it then I would
echo egret
Anyone with a route for PF that has perfect pride placement just before all bosses ? Atm I'm always struggling with boss 2 (Dr Ickus) where it spawns 1 pack too soon.
ionic fern
Do the packs with less mobs first on that boss and leave the pack with the highest % for last. .
You should get it to 60% then if it's close.
lofty widget
Anyone with a route for PF that has perfect pride placement just before all boss...
try this https://pastebin.com/KFdJNNkN
signal plover
Our route usually prides before we do the back right pack but then we just combo that pack with boss and blast with hero+pride
undone jacinth
link doesn’t work for me
echo egret
@lofty widget Sorry that link doesn't work it says it's private.
undone jacinth
if you skip the last mushroom pack and the big pack at the bottom of the stairs in explosion area you get perfect count on every boss
you just have to kill one extra tentacle
echo egret
I'm playing only with pugs so I want something risk-free that doesn't rely on shroud or invis pots...
I did find a route but it involves clearing most of the area before 1st boss, skipping most of the area before the gauntlet by running around, and a bit of back-and-forth in the last zone.
undone jacinth
invis pots are very risk free
just ask them to have one
if you’re doing pugs on keys that aren’t meaningless to you then invis pots aren’t much to ask
echo egret
That is true.
undone jacinth
people going to 15s without invis pots are trolling
hallow phoenix
I have one that gets nice prides for bosses and skips hard trash
But I'm nowhere near my computer atm
lofty widget
just get engineering and role the dice every time
opal fox
you can kill the flesh giant then move through the middle without pulling any mushrooms if you arecareful
for the first boss, that is
then you can pick and choose which trash packs to pull to get to 20% prideful before globgrog
better than dealing with the mushrooms with pugs, because if someone pulls a plagueroc, you're not getting prideful at globgrog
hallow phoenix
I pull the first two mushroom soldiers on the side + big dude. Then first mushroom pack + 2 rocs.
Skip to boss room and clear it for prideful.
Turn around and kill all the mushrooms and the last roc.
Continue on and hug the left. Pull the abom and roc. Keep left and pull the other patrolling abom. Pride 2. Cross the river while hugging left and pull the two little plague claw dudes. They just give % we need.
Then from here you fight only the tentacles you need, pull the big middle pack on the island after second boss. Grab the defender+slime after the big island pack. Clear the rest of the necessary trash. Also grab the three slimes in the hallway once you drop down to margrave.
Gets you prides on each boss
undone jacinth
this is the best and simplest route imo
you basically go in a straight line and avoid one pack
hallow phoenix
Action unauthorized
echo egret
I never do the island in the middle, it seems scary to me, though I've never actually tried. I always jump left above the stairs and run along the fall, pulling stuff there 'til the lone ambusher in the 3rd boss area.
ionic fern
It's a fairly simple pack.
hallow phoenix
It's free and good %
Interrupt creepy crawlies and summon venomfang
Stun the shields
Mobs after second boss are the worst and I avoid them
First boss**
ionic fern
Just abuse the bombs. 👀
undone jacinth
the pack starts on low hp, it’s the best pull in the dungeon
hallow phoenix
Me hates it
undone jacinth
it lasts like 10 seconds
hallow phoenix
undone jacinth
I meant the island mobs
the mobs after the first boss you kill literally all of them with plagueborer
hallow phoenix
Plagueborer evil
undone jacinth
they all last a few seconds too
hallow phoenix
Gonna keep skipping them until we suddenly stop 2 checking pf
Dungeon is free and I see no reason to do trash that hurts
undone jacinth
if you get someone to put a freedom on you and use the plagueborers then they don’t do any damage to you
undone jacinth
the slimes?
you get the plagueborer low and drag it in to them, the slimes won’t be alive for more than 10secs or so
hallow phoenix
10 seconds of pain
undone jacinth
never had a problem myself
hallow phoenix
in higher keys we didn't find it easy enough to include in our route ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
lofty widget
they are really not too bad
strong forum
obligatory
imagine doing anything higher than weekly key
out of boredom i watched some BFA m+ vids
when everything was facetanked 24/7 and blasting dmg, then i watched an SL high key, legit 50%+ kiting and losing hp through cooldowns struggling to survive, some packs were 100% kited never engaged
actually insanity
undone jacinth
it would be nice if I could spend some time communicating in a key like in BFA
instead of just intensely staring at my CDs
hoping I don't die before they come up
strong forum
like legit, watched Naowh UR29, then watched HoA+22, and on the first pull with lust and meta up, he has to resort to kiting like 5seconds after engaging
its so sad
kiting every single pack
undone jacinth
maybe the number of players pushing is just too low to fix around
strong forum
possibly
itll take until 9.1 again prolly
to see any relevant tank/healer changes
and m+ changes
sacred roost
How badely am I gimping myself if I put vers gems in my gem slots? Kinda wanna double up my tank rings for pvp rings. Know I should be using haste.
vestal moat
youll be fine
strong forum
those few stats wont make or break anything
chilly brook
when everything was facetanked 24/7 and blasting dmg, then i watched an SL high ...
Yep some people are like "oh that's just because it's the first tier" and I'm like nah I never kited anything like this in s1
Nor did any of the DKs in s1
strong forum
wanna know what BFA s1 looked like?
daring marlin
Season 1 BFA prot warriors with the big demo uptime big pog
daring marlin
I remember arguing with someone in here back then cuz they said people pushing keys as bdk didn't use bonestorm
strong forum
if you didnt get oneshot, youd live
it was as simple as that
and then they overcorrected BDKs
armor nerf, wotn nerf, bonestorm nerf
death
daring marlin
f for our blood brothers
strong forum
i hate BDK so i dont mind them being shit, but thats just me
chilly brook
I also think their class design is outdated in terms of how it works with modern wow encounter design
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
strong forum
theyre last stand, the class
chilly brook
Basically
Everything they have is just done better by DH
Because DH is designed for modern wow
Even if it wasn't overtuned
The only things blood does better is bring AMZ and a more reliable grip
chilly brook
Everything else is just undertuned
strong forum
yes
strong forum
even vdh is undertuned if you think about it
if this was a perfect world, every tank would get huge buffs
daring marlin
Tanks want to actually tank ???
strong forum
but this isnt a perfect world
daring marlin
Unheard of.
ebon hound
👀
patent osprey
no king rules forever :) kite meta is fine
chilly brook
The only crappy thing about playing outlaw is I dont have impressive burst I just have some nice sustained damage
daring marlin
Sounds like Fury. lol
chilly brook
I did an alt key with the bois
And I kept stunning priority targets
And they got blown up
And they were like "holy shit what happened"
10% damage buff from stun is actually big
strong forum
no king rules forever :) kite meta is fine
alot of people disagree
ebon hound
no king rules forever :) kite meta is fine
I enjoy not playing
I'd rather watch while someone else plays my game
potent anvil
Im gonna craft leaper so I can pretend Im a dh next week. Heroic leap uncapped aoe dmg 
chilly brook
no king rules forever :) kite meta is fine
Fuck the kite meta all my homies hate kiting
strong forum
im thinking about crafting seismic reverb
chilly brook
Seismic reverb + bsc is actually pretty fun
strong forum
like... just let me do dmg ffs
chilly brook
At least it was on beta
potent anvil
I was actually gonna craft seismic tbh
patent osprey
Fuck the kite meta all my homies hate kiting
it's just different. metas will always change. just running into mobs and tanking it straight up is a bit boring too. cause u go in and it's not alot of thought in my opinion. I felt so tanks at end of bfa it was just whether my dps died to some one shot
now tanking is alot more impactful
strong forum
vers meta was just as terrible
sacred roost
they might be relying on tier sets to increase tank effectivness.
daring marlin
idk abou that one dawg
chilly brook
I mean that's also end of BFA where you stacked vers and vers amps for high ass keys
strong forum
but saying tanking has alot of impact right now is a straight lie
sacred roost
that's my hope, anyhow
daring marlin
I like pumping damage when I'm tanking
strong forum
you as tank have the least impact on keys currently
since m+ release
survival is not up to you
patent osprey
you as tank have the least impact on keys currently
I straight up disagree
chilly brook
Eh
undone jacinth
even if you're kiting
patent osprey
I have friends pugging 15s that just rip key cause tank either route or death. and we do the same key and 2 chest
daring marlin
He's saying compared to other seasons
strong forum
your only job is not pulling too many mobs and doing your route
chilly brook
The key part of that statement was "since m+ release"
strong forum
thats it
daring marlin
He's not comparing roles
undone jacinth
he is I think
chilly brook
Which isn't wrong
patent osprey
I can't say how much saying tank is less impactful is wrong @_@
undone jacinth
what are you defining impact as
chilly brook
You're reliant on literally everyone for everything
undone jacinth
a bad tank is the worst thing a group can have
patent osprey
aight IA just agree to disagree @_@
strong forum
guys
chilly brook
You're not getting the nuance
daring marlin
Once again, he was talking about tank impact relative to past seasons.
chilly brook
Its not that tank isn't important
strong forum
what i mean is, you as a tank dont have control over the outcome of anything compared to earlier seasons
your job is the same
but you control it alot less
chilly brook
^
strong forum
you control your own survival alot less
undone jacinth
in 99% of groups the tank is doing all of the routing
strong forum
yes
undone jacinth
that alone is the highest impact you can have
strong forum
im not denying that
im not talking about any routing
or planning
or communication
chilly brook
You did 99% of the routing in Legion s1 too....
strong forum
im legit talking you as a tank
as a class
not as a human sitting in voice
or as shotcaller
strong forum
thats a completely differen thing im talking about
undone jacinth
idk if I'm coaching a group the worst thing they could have would be a bad tank imo
strong forum
breh im legit not comparing good vs bad tank
chilly brook
patent osprey
what i mean is, you as a tank dont have control over the outcome of anything com...
you literally control every aspect of a pull. You have to know what every class does and their strengths. Your tanking has a direct impact to key success
daring marlin
Better hope your DPS avoid those spitefuls or nadoes
undone jacinth
I don't really get what you are saying then
gaunt crane
if you guys dont mind I have a question 😄 in plaguefall at Virulax Blightweaver. How do you deal with the tentacles+ bombs? I die soo much there I feel like I do something wrong 😄
chilly brook
It's really simple
strong forum
kill the tentacles with bombs
daring marlin
I've had ranged bitch about spitefuls like ? ? ?
chilly brook
You as a tank
chilly brook
Have less control over your survival than any other time in m+ history
patent osprey
if you guys dont mind I have a question 😄 in plaguefall at Virulax Blightweaver...
once they start blowing up, they have green circle under them jump out of the circle
chilly brook
You as a tank
gaunt crane
but the tentacle pulls you back right
chilly brook
Are far more reliant on everyone else doing their job than any other time in m+ history
gaunt crane
oh shit you can stun it
daring marlin
@gaunt crane stun it at 35ish%
patent osprey
Have less control over your survival than any other time in m+ history
again you have so much control of your survivability. you need to know when to kite
gaunt crane
ooh thanks!
chilly brook
You as a tank get punished extremely hard if your DPS don't do what they're supposed to
chilly brook
again you have so much control of your survivability. you need to know when to k...
Saying just kite 4head doesn't give you good gameplay
Me not playing the game in order to not die isn't good gameplay
patent osprey
Saying just kite 4head doesn't give you good gameplay
good game play is subjective. Impactfulness isnt
what I like to do and what you are could be different which is ok
undone jacinth
"you as tank have the least impact on keys currently" - doesn't feel like you are arguing this point any more?
strong forum
My entire point is, you as a tank dont matter if your routing, communication and coordination is fine.
chilly brook
Except when you literally shift a lot of survival from the tank to the other roles you gave reduced impactfulness
strong forum
thats legit my entire point of tanks having little impact assuming you know what youre doing
craggy beacon
Guys i need help, i dont know which legendery to craft for m+. I was thinking to craft Unbreakable Will. What do you guys think?
strong forum
patent osprey
thats legit my entire point of tanks having little impact assuming you know what...
I still disagree but we may just have different views on keys
undone jacinth
if tank is shit you cant do anything
chilly brook
Blizz themselves hate kiting
strong forum
you just die
strong forum
as a tank, if your numbers arent there you can still get carried hard
patent osprey
if your tank is shit you still won't time key... if your healer is shit you still won't time keys @_@ that blanket statement is so irrelevant
undone jacinth
tanking isn't about numbers
chilly brook
But now they've forced us into a position where tanks overall are so shit it's the meta again
undone jacinth
bad dps = bad numbers
patent osprey
dead tank = not impactful tank
undone jacinth
bad tank = dead group
patent osprey
tank numbers = surviving. Noone care about your dps. dps matters only in the highest of keys
undone jacinth
!?
chilly brook
tank numbers = surviving. Noone care about your dps. dps matters only in the hig...
That's an incorrect statement your damage did matter in both Legion and BFA
undone jacinth
that's not an argument
can't just say tanks dont matter if they play well
but dps do matter if they play well
patent osprey
Kay I don't think anyone is on the same page lol. in the highest of keys tank and healer dps matter. but in regular keys it really doesn't. good tanking + kiting + pulling multiple packs correlates to higher overall dps
chilly brook
Not playing the game for extended periods of time while everyone else does doesn't sound like playing well to me
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
strong forum
your own survival is tied extremely to your dps playing well
which is not how its supposed to go
ionic fern
Is that tank design or is that dungeon design tho? Legion dungeons/mechanics were way different than now.
patent osprey
your own survival is tied extremely to your dps playing well
your own survival is determined on yourself first. and has always been determined if your dps kick/stun/grip etc
chilly brook
Is that tank design or is that dungeon design tho? Legion dungeons/mechanics wer...
Both
strong forum
currently its both
chilly brook
Considering anytime a tank was good they got the nerf bat on beta
undone jacinth
try going through high bfa keys without kicking anything
undone jacinth
don't think you'd enjoy it
ionic fern
If you would put us into Legion dungeons with the tuning it had right now i'd think every tank would have to kite less. 🤷
chilly brook
And they still got SotR nerf
strong forum
alot of CC you can take care of yourself as warri given you have stormbolt fear shockwave sr and kick
i have done alot of keys with shit dps
but i was still fine in bfa
in sl? youll die even in low keys
patent osprey
I also don't know why people think kiting means your not playing the game. it's an integral skill. you can do so much to impact the group dps while your kiting. how you kite. how you weave. how you interrupt. how you keep aggro. how you pull.mutiple packs
golden tapir
U run storm bolt as prot ?
strong forum
always
undone jacinth
ofc
strong forum
always always always
golden tapir
Okay
undone jacinth
what low keys are you dying in
golden tapir
What about in raid
golden tapir
Okay
strong forum
legit the 11 i told you about
ionic fern
I also don't know why people think kiting means your not playing the game. it's ...
Kiting is just not the definition of "fun" for most people..
strong forum
with boosting 3 people
depleted by like 20min
cuz low dps
and that shouldnt be a thing
undone jacinth
??
chilly brook
I also don't know why people think kiting means your not playing the game. it's ...
Literally no one who pushed keys was excited about kiting none of them ever tweeted about how good it was for the game during beta
It was the opposite
true wind
Kiting is just not the definition of "fun" for most people..
can't agree more. i hate it, that's why i don't tank in necrotic weeks. Though once every now and then it's okay.
mighty cairn
even though people might not like kiting, it's hard to deny that it's still a skill intensive part of the role
patent osprey
Maybe I just played too much monster hunter as a kid. I don't mind kiting meta
ionic fern
But again..what some people consider "fun" others might consider boring etc.
mighty cairn
like i'm still learning new ways to kite certain packs properly while making sure my dps can hit things
undone jacinth
it's not really about whether it's enjoyable or not though
your point about it being a key skill is still true
even if it sucks
stoic mural
Kiting a bit isn't a bad thing, kinda rewarding when you time it well. It's not a bad thing in mythic+
chilly brook
Kiting every now and again is fine
patent osprey
kiting is a skill just like face tanking is ^.^ therefore impact ful. How fun it is for the community is a different argument.
ionic fern
The thing about kiting is..i don't mind kiting in 19-20+ keys..but kiting in keys as low as 15 is kinda infuriating.
stoic mural
Yeah it depends, really subjective
chilly brook
Like if I wasn't going to live a pull obviously I'm not gonna stay in melee range
strong forum
kiting is inherently unfun to me, i play a game to press buttons and do the thing, not avoid doing the thing cuz its easier if i dont
chilly brook
That applied back in BFA
But the problem is that happens far more often in SL than ever before
strong forum
and to every single tank
chilly brook
Even through CDs you can get trucked
undone jacinth
everyone knows that but it's nothing to do with impactfulness on a key
true wind
Having it be a meta.....
that's exactly what i think aswell. Kiting is okay sometimes. But always? Nah thanks. i play fury.
patent osprey
bur kiting In a 15 goes away as you get more gear. I did half a theater of pain without using shieldblock on my stream just to show how nuts gear scaling is. you don't even get hit hard in a 15 if you have mythic gear
patent osprey
anyways... it's not impactful your looking for but less fun. and I can understand that viewpoint
mighty cairn
as I'm starting to push 15+s for KSM, are there any ways I should play differently with a disc priest compared to a rsham or hpal healer?
i feel like there are certain hard pulls where I'm misusing cds and dying a bit more
undone jacinth
anyways... it's not impactful your looking for but less fun. and I can understan...
^
ionic fern
bur kiting In a 15 goes away as you get more gear. I did half a theater of pain ...
It's horrible in PuGs. Even on +15's people don't CC/Kick and the DPS of the majority of players is really questionable making an otherwise easy pack feel like hell.
patent osprey
as I'm starting to push 15+s for KSM, are there any ways I should play different...
you have to be alot more mindful of your mitigation downtime. disc priest does very bad when tanks need excessive healing or they don't know that the damage is coming.
undone jacinth
it's 100% not enjoyable to play push keys for me at the moment
but i'm still very impactful to them
strong forum
disc priest is like our worst partner cuz they suck at getting HP up, but i dont think youd have to play differently
patent osprey
in your mitigation downtime you will have to use defensives more actively or kite more
sacred roost
it feels like certain covenants are WAY to important for us to, if your not Kyrian, for example , this week, it must REALLY suck on higher keys
ionic fern
Necrotic was never an issue for the majority of tanks.
It has only been a problem on certain bosses where you couldn't reset the stacks properly on high tyrannical keys.
strong forum
Phial or Tether isnt really necessary for Necrotic
patent osprey
it feels like certain covenants are WAY to important for us to, if your not Kyri...
it's fine to so high keys without kyrian. just have to find unique ways to drop stacks. door of shadows kiting is an example
solemn magnet
I got a 197 Hymnal of the Path from a calling. Currently using 200 Gluttonous Spike and 200 Memory of Past Sins. Hymnal worth using?
solemn magnet
generic CN dps trinket
strong forum
ah
grand drum
if i had to have one potency, what should i put in it for m+?
strong forum
use hymnal instead of spike then
solemn magnet
i also have 203 slimy consumptive organ
strong forum
dont
patent osprey
if i had to have one potency, what should i put in it for m+?
show of force or if kyrian the covenant one
jagged pier
I got a 197 Hymnal of the Path from a calling. Currently using 200 Gluttonous Sp...
FUK YOU
solemn magnet
i used it 1 run. it didn't feel good
jagged pier
i mean my 168 one does like 4-5% of my damage
ebon hound
'Never seen a hymnal'-gang
jagged pier
^^
strong forum
as regular WQ
undone jacinth
168 ilvl xd
ebon hound
Would you look at that
undone jacinth
blizz having a laugh
ebon hound
'Seen 1 hymnal'-gang
jagged pier
again my 168 one does 4-5 % of my damage per run
undone jacinth
terrible main stat though
jagged pier
tru
undone jacinth
and already got 226 decanter that does in that region
aren't WQs meant to be based on your ilvl
jagged pier
nah its somthing to do with reknown then its random i think
strong forum
WQs are tied to renown
sweet summit
28
jagged pier
28
jagged pier
but its still seems random what ilvl some of the items seem to be 🤷
sacred roost
what are we looking at for optimal trinkets right now?
undone jacinth
I would probably use a 197 hymnal to try and drag my bear up
scale and whatever stat/haste thing you've got
strong forum
or heraldry / anime emitter + scale
sacred roost
Blood-Spattered Scale?
undone jacinth
ye
strong forum
yes
sacred roost
I have anima emitter
undone jacinth
good
sacred roost
at 213
true wind
ye it proccs so much, it's no problem it's an aoe effect
golden tapir
For the weapon enchant guessing are for M+ and stats for raid?
undone jacinth
not sure what question was
but enchant is celestial
unless you need a tiny boost in aoe dps
zealous pivot
Kyrian is the better choice over the others correct?
undone jacinth
it's still overall the best choice
but it's not gonna ruin your character if you aren't it
golden tapir
It makes m+ alot easier and gives you a cleans and rage boost.
pastel vector
So... anybody else have aggro issues? or have a solution?
undone jacinth
ravager covenant ability and hunters are the solution
sometimes mongo dps are still gonna make things awkward for you though
pastel vector
my buddy is a fire mage and EVERY combustion...
undone jacinth
yep thats how it goes
just have to make sure youve put down all your stuff before he goes off
and be quick to taunt
astral crystal
aggro issues also lessen with gear
pastel vector
iLvl 200 rn so, hopefully it gets better
astral crystal
and as you get comfy with damage intake, use more revenge etc
pastel vector
I feel so rage starved as well trying to choose between IP and SB
undone jacinth
thats not the choice you are making
you sb whenever you are taking blockable damage
you IP if you're still getting hammered above that, you revenge if you aren't
pastel vector
ohhhhh okay.
jagged pier
from what youve said if your rage starved and having aggro issues you could be doing somthing wrong
pastel vector
I guess just too much IP
wont have wall till next week as well so, assuming thats a huge game changer
jagged pier
not really
undone jacinth
its not
pastel vector
facepalm
jagged pier
TL is actually more rage
undone jacinth
your fundamental play will always be the most important thing
jagged pier
what are your talents?
pastel vector
Dev Boomin Crack Indom Rav Bolster
jagged pier
you can log keys
pastel vector
I havent been logging them i should say, but i can start
appreciate the help. Transitioning to prot for guild so, trying to master all i can
jagged pier
from your your saying you are probably missing alot of casts tbh
we've had a lot of ppl in here saying they are rage starved
but they are missing SS's and wasting a lot of rage
like demmoing at 100 rage etc
covenant can help of course tho spear lines up with combust everythime
but thats not a make or break
pastel vector
so SB just takes full priority then over IP? or can you better explain the SB vs IP?
jagged pier
SB if always prio pretty much
u should always have 30 rage saved for it
like all mobs melee
okay when they cast or are cc'd they dont
you only ever favour IP when all the mobs are casting
which is never really
and you use Bolster(Last stand) and SW to fill the gaps in your SB not being up
as you wont always be able to have it
we are premetive so if your saving LS or SW for when u drop low you are playing the class wrong
pastel vector
Gotcha. Probably where im struggling. Used to playing Blood DK
more reactive
I appreciate the tips, ill start logging and upload. Thanks again!
sick sentinel
you are less limited in self healing is the biggest difference between bdk and pw
the entire point of pw is to absorb all of the damage through armour and blocking and parrying and whatever else
indigo lotus
QQ guys, thunderlord vs the wall in M+ scenario?
jagged pier
prefernce
deft bridge
huh, so in a way, healing a prot warrior is keeping them up as they slowly lose health while bdk healing is mostly trying to prevent spikes?
digital hawk
yes
jagged pier
your choice
strong forum
huh, so in a way, healing a prot warrior is keeping them up as they slowly lose ...
yes
jagged pier
Nomes gone back to old picture 😮
digital hawk
QQ guys, thunderlord vs the wall in M+ scenario?
I run the wall just because Thunderlord is only good with anger management unstoppable force
strong forum
pwar goes 100-90-80-70 and so on, bdk goes 100-20-90-20-80
jagged pier
I run the wall just because Thunderlord is only good with anger management unsto...
incorrect
digital hawk
its actually mediocre if you run bolster and ravager
jagged pier
its actually mediocre if you run bolster and ravager
incorrect
digital hawk
how so? Why wouldn't you take bolster which is actually crazy now that it stacks duration with Shield block
strong forum
hes just saying youre incorrect in the specific things youre saying
Rav/Bolster is the m+ build, but TL doesnt get "good" because of UF
digital hawk
Thunderlord outside of the anger management Unstoppable force is rather mediocre imo, with The Wall + Ravager and Bolster you get ~ 2 min CD on Shield Wall
So every other pack more or less you have Wall up
strong forum
legendary choice doesnt come with talent choice or the other way around
but yes Wall is more Popular
digital hawk
Yes it does
modern brook
never play unstoppable force
stoppable force
ionic fern
So every other pack more or less you have Wall up
And i have DS up every pack x2 times.
modern brook
Awlays surrender. SToppable force. Our talents are sad :^(
digital hawk
Whats your talent build?
ionic fern
Both are great LEgendaries tbh - there's no wrong choice. If you are playing around SW CD with The Wall it's amazing.
The same as probably everyone else.
Deva/BV/Indom/Rav/Bolster
strong forum
just because theres a synergy between the talent and legendary, doesnt mean that its good synergy 😉
but yeah
i prefer Wall aswell
ionic fern
Nothing stopping you from playing with The Wall. 🙂
A lot of people enjoy it.
I just prefer TL.
digital hawk
if you run BFA build, Booming Voice, Unstoppable Force, Anger Management then Thunderlord is really good right? like demo shout all the time
but without that it seems rather lackluster
ionic fern
The Demo shout uptime increases, yes. But the Demo Shout uptime increase does not outweight the loss of Ravager/Bolster.
digital hawk
Exactly
digital hawk
Plus you get extra rage regen on Shield Slam with The Wall
ionic fern
What are you trying to argue/prove/discuss? I'm kinda at a loss here.
digital hawk
Just discussing
ionic fern
Ah, okay.
digital hawk
My point is that the wall is a stronger option compared to Thunderlord outside of anger management unstoppable force build when using Rav bolster
digital hawk
You are free to disagree and argue!
ionic fern
DS is pretty much used on CD as it's part of our "rotation" with a rough CD of 23s in m+ packs.
The Wall needs to be played around to get the most benefit out of the CDR part of it.
A lot of warriors are sitting on SW off CD and not using it due to not actually NEEDING it.
jagged pier
Plus you get extra rage regen on Shield Slam with The Wall
you get more rage gen with TLs
ionic fern
As i said - if you have a solid group and can play around the lowered CD of SW it's amazing.
digital hawk
You make a good point with a good healer you probably don't need wall every 2 minutes
vestal moat
So tomorrow we get Pelagos' final trait. It seems extremely lackluster.
strong forum
you mean in 2-3 days
vestal moat
yeah, 2 days
solemn magnet
worth going to 207?
strong forum
the big one of pelagos is the 350 mastery
vestal moat
kleia 5% crit seems much bettter. but no more kleia bc no more necrotic
strong forum
worth going to 207?
no
digital hawk
I'm venthyr so waiting for Theotar last row
Actually Draven last row comes first so that might be more valuable
strong forum
dravens last rows are kinda nutty aswell
digital hawk
yeh
unkempt fox
dislike both of them for m+ 😩
digital hawk
Although I'd rather have the strength buff when above 80% compared to gaining stamina when standing still
feel like you can't stand still much in M+ anyways
unkempt fox
if ure below 40% thats kiting time (taking no dmg anyways) and standing still under the umbrella is a very low uptime aswell
remote tusk
Does dead on the floor count as standing still?
digital hawk
lol
unkempt fox
prolly we're playing different m+ if you can stand still 😆
digital hawk
depends on the week and dungeon though right?
some dungeons you really have to be moving
strong forum
yeah but not 24/7
only for a sidestep at a time every now and again
especially if youre not pushing 18+
valid zodiac
I hope Niya's last trait will turn out to be really good
undone jacinth
because she's not already op enough? 😛
valid zodiac
I wont mind even more op stuff :D
undone jacinth
well you can kinda math it out
does like 3.7k for my druid with both bonuses
average of 25 interrupts = 93k dmg
which is like 2% of my dmg
so not the best but not nothing
valid zodiac
I went with another defensive conduit so it is chance of procing slow and damage while casting spells for me
undone jacinth
oh yea
that one is listed as just under 2ppm, 4.5k dmg, thats 630k damage in average 35min key
thats more like 20% of my overall lol
if that's actually like that it seems broken..
strong forum
brb rerolling NF
undone jacinth
u mean ur not looking forward to the 3% magic damage reduction?
strong forum
big dam > smol dam
undone jacinth
if they just left that ability as the 3% vers it was before or whatever
is that really still overpowered?
strong forum
now its too late
undone jacinth
just seems like it was a weird change
strong forum
well it was part of the reason why every beta covenant said to go Kyrian
like 70% of all specs were, according to sims, going kyrian
cuz 350 mastery + 3-5% vers from pelagos
pelagos was overly dominant on the soulbind front
so they gradually lowered its vers benefit, all until the rework cuz it was still ahead
undone jacinth
pretty sure everyone would be night fae still even if it was 3%
idk
even if that was too much... just literally nuking it from orbit in to magic damage reduction
like wut
just got my 7th lego on druid
pls give me more soul ash blizz =[
undone jacinth
4 specs 😦
undone jacinth
I play 4 but not really boomy so much
shouldn't have made BOAT
its too zzzz
even playing 2 specs on other characters is a bit awkward with legos
undone jacinth
I sat down for a night to learn it
2minutes later... ohhh
you just cast this one spell
over and over
then cast this other one spell
over and over
learning is complete!
man end of night boss pulls are at least 75% better than any other pull in the night
strong forum
cuz for some reason people get their shit together
tardy sequoia
But they are spread out, if dps come to you it’s easier
Or not? Maybe I am mistaken a tactic
ionic berry
Looking for advice on how to transition H Sire through mirrors without getting hit from behind? What have the other prots been doing?
ionic berry
Been trying that and it seems like I'm taking alot of damage once on the other side
undone jacinth
because nobody is healing you
you just have to plan around it
all the healers are running around
harder for them
undone jacinth
But they are spread out, if dps come to you it’s easier
grouping the adds make sense but then you do get all the green swirls together... best is to just not panic about the adds, they do almost nothing
the swirls are how you die
cedar perch
nervermind its on the pins =] thx tho
heavy sail
Just keep up bleeds while spamming builder/finisher.
I guess it’s not that dull. It’s not for me, though.
undone jacinth
lol you can add the word just to any classes rotation and make it sound simple
but it plays different to pretty much any spec in the game
undone jacinth
that's the same thing as saying they are varying degrees of complex
heavy sail
Not much in the way of like
Intrinsic difficulty
But that’s again not really what I mean by dull.
heavy sail
This is true
undone jacinth
or even compared to boomy
but if dull is just meant to be the opposite of fun
then I don't really find it fun
would like to swap mains
sick sentinel
What is hands down the best legendary to do dmg with in raid as a prot warrior
heavy sail
Wall
undone jacinth
maybe signet
sick sentinel
im sitting 98's and 99's with wall im trying to place higher with my parses
undone jacinth
why lol
sick sentinel
for fun?
undone jacinth
fair enough
undone jacinth
AM with signet is probably the highest damage
sick sentinel
i dont think you know what padding means
heavy sail
Probably signet
You’re going to argue to me that tanking CN with signet isn’t padding
sick sentinel
yeah i would
undone jacinth
o.O
sick sentinel
i would get the padding notion if u were progressing
but our healers are insane and prog is over
now we just play for numbers
heavy sail
Which is fine