So it definitely is possible
#protection
strong forum
Good, you can actually play the game now, instead of scrawling around on the floor scraping for pve loot
For weeks and weeks
Pvp gearing is perfect
If you disagree then idk chief
sick sentinel
And yes, its a catch up mechanic that you entered into late. Because at this point it is late.
If you had been into it from the start you would have gotten one piece a week.
heavy sail
What’s a catch up mechanic?
strong forum
Pvp gearing
sick sentinel
The conquest cap wasnt 4000 from the start.
heavy sail
Oh right yeah
sick sentinel
Thats what it is after many weeks of extending
heavy sail
Well yes, I understand that.
I know it’s only as fast as it presently is because of the cap increasing
sick sentinel
No you apparently dont if your argument is you can get fully geared in a week. Since you sure as shit couldnt at the start.
heavy sail
Don’t get me wrong about that part
sick sentinel
You're looking at the near end state of a catch up mechanic and going "Too fast" which is the point of a catch up mechanic
heavy sail
If I started heroic nathria on an alt and ran 10 +15s, wager a guess how long it would take me to actually hit 210
That’s the point
🤷♂️
strong forum
Weeks
sick sentinel
Yes, your point is that PvE gearing system is currently garbage. I agree.
strong forum
And thats because pve gearing is shit
Everybody is saying that
Pvp isn't in the wrong, pve is.
sick sentinel
PvE lacks any catch up at all and thats a problem.
strong forum
Pvp is just fine...
sick sentinel
Dont be too biased now "Baby mode".
heavy sail
PvE gearing in BfA was babymode for sure
There’s a reason it was changed
Don’t forget
sick sentinel
No its not baby mode to allow people in a game that is HIGHLy selective about taking people based on ilvl to be able to catch the fuck up
blazing condor
the gap between normal gear and HC gear is too big in PVE - do 14/15s and you get just inbetween
strong forum
Gearing shouldn't take 6+ weeks
Nobody bothers doing m+ because loot isn't worthwhile
blazing condor
feels like youre forced to do CN to get adequate gear to continue pushing m+ but if you dont have a guild youre fucked cus pugging is garbage
strong forum
Alot of people don't raid because you don't get loot
sick sentinel
Get off your elitist, special club high horse and see the problem for what it is.
heavy sail
So what would you do about it then? Like what’s the solution.
Because people were screaming the opposite like 10 months ago
strong forum
Na
sick sentinel
I dont know, re-implement the valor system and have it work somewhat like the PvP system.
sick sentinel
You can get valor points via PvE activity and bring up the ilvl of valor gear with the cap of said valor gear being based either on mythic+ clears or raid clears.
Clean, simple, and a system we already have and know is well liked.
heavy sail
I guess my perspective is that I don’t care that it takes a long time for PvE gearing, I don’t mind it.
It’s just that systems should be equal that’s it
strong forum
I play for loot
sick sentinel
The problem is, way to many people DO mind it. Which makes starting into content later into a tier fucking awful. Or making alts.
heavy sail
And yeah I’m not opposed to that suggestion @sick sentinel
Lots of people have said the same
sick sentinel
The WoW community pretty much demands certain ilvl and eventually it becomes far to difficult to get it.
The game needs catch up mechanics simply because blizzard in all their stupidity put such massive gear gaps in a tier.
strong forum
Unless im max geard I don't feel like I can play the game, cuz I keep chasing stupid ilvl
heavy sail
Gearing is the game imo
strong forum
"if i had better gear I could do X much better" but if you don't get it you just sit there and 
guess I have to wait a few more weeks
heavy sail
I’d just log off if I had bis everything
sick sentinel
I'm not doubting gearing is important.
What I'm saying is the size of the gaps is fucking stupid.
blazing condor
arena takes like 2 mins and its either stomp or get stomped - play for a few hours and youre good for the week
strong forum
That's due to Blizzard overcorrecting m+ loot
sick sentinel
Blizz knows full well from experience with many of their own games that players will be more than happy chasing a power level different of .1%. You could have the gap of ilvl between each tier be like, 5, and people would happily chase it.
heavy sail
@strong forum response to m+ being a filler for doing heroic/mythic raiding
Which is fine by me I guess
They just went too far
Like, mythic raid gear should 100% be the best available bar none no exceptions
strong forum
I don't agree
sick sentinel
Myhic raid gear is already special in its own way.
strong forum
But atleast close
220 for highest keys imo
Maybe 218 for 18s
Would already be good
heavy sail
I think there should be a +6 ilvl gap between the highest vault gear for m+ and PvP
But that’s just me I know some people disagree with that
I just think the hardest content that’s time gated should have the best rewards
strong forum
Yes
Getting glad is hard
Getting to CE early is hard
Doing 20s is hard ( for alot of people)
heavy sail
Doing 20s is hard for sure
sick sentinel
Yeah high lvl mythic+ is comparable to mythic raiding level is the thing. So should reward based on that.
That said I will state again, we know for sure, based on both blizzard and none-blizzard games, that all that matters is a difference in ilvls. the size of that difference doesnt matter. Big gaps just leads to PvP and PvE gate keeping.
strong forum
But it's also unreasonable to need glad for good pvp gear, it's never been the case
It was a thing in bfa an nobody bothered cuz it's way too high for just keeping up
That's another issue
To keep in mind
Current pvp requirements are pretty much perfect
placid oar
I really hope blizzard somehow reads what u guys are discussing and do smth to award high M+ players
strong forum
They don't really read class discord, but we're not the only people bringing feedback
placid oar
Would it actually help if we bring this to the forums to gain their attention?
placid oar
Great, thanks Nomeratur
strong forum
I reckon by 9.1 /9.1.5 there will be some changes to pve loot
heavy sail
I’m fine with PvP gearing being good don’t get me wrong, but it’s just a fact that there’s an imbalance right now
And there’s a couple ways to look at it
sick sentinel
This is the company that has a private, invite only feedback forum, which they typically use to tell players how wrong they are.
So I'm not holding my breath. Modern WoW has a massive history of ignoring feedback.
Didnt Ion already say that he's fine with PvE gearing he just thinks that it should "feel" better not so much that it should give more?
placid oar
I reckon by 9.1 /9.1.5 there will be some changes to pve loot
Fingers crossed!! Hopefully man
heavy sail
I wouldn’t expect anything changed until 9.1 ofc
Which is maybe 2-3 months out
Probably more actually
sick sentinel
What they said was
"we think we can do more to make the experience of running dungeons and raids feel more satisfying when you don't get a specific item you were hoping for."
undone jacinth
Didnt Ion already say that he's fine with PvE gearing he just thinks that it sho...
He said pvp was in a good spot and something needed to be done about the others
sick sentinel
That isnt saying they are intending to increase loot rates. Thats saying they are trying to soften the blow of not getting what you want
sick sentinel
"One big topic of discussion has been the way loot works in the Shadowlands endgame: We significantly reduced the rate at which players earn item rewards, but at the same time also stripped away randomness and tried to give everyone more clear goals to pursue and control over their progress towards them. When it comes to PvP itemization specifically, we're really happy with how that's playing out, but we think we can do more to make the experience of running dungeons and raids feel more satisfying when you don't get a specific item you were hoping for."
is the whole quote.
Dont try to look at it from a perspecrtive of what you want, but of what it is.
undone jacinth
he also brought it up himself without being asked as the first issue he could think of
heavy sail
Would be typical of them to release the next tier about 6 months after launch
Give or take
strong forum
It's corona
heavy sail
Yeah
strong forum
Offices are empty af
sick sentinel
With Ion's god awful history I suppose I'm hugely skeptical. Isnt the first time they said they would look into fixing a problem and then did something else entirely.
strong forum
So things are going slower
heavy sail
Blizzard were receptive to a lot of grievances with shadowlands
sick sentinel
Can you blame me? He's openly admitted to ignoring feedback after stating they were lsitening to feedback, many times.
heavy sail
Makes me hopeful that they have turned a corner
undone jacinth
he’s open about blizzards issues, that’s a good thing
sick sentinel
The patch isnt on the PTR at all and they have blizzcon in 3 weeks. I think we're in for a fairly long wait.
undone jacinth
working at a big company like that isn’t easy and there’s tons of good that has come from them
90% of SL is great and a lot of that is from feedback
e.g. removing titanforging
heavy sail
WoW players also have an issue of wanting to have their cake and eat it too
Blizz can’t make everyone happy
sick sentinel
Yes, only took hwo many years of fighting them over it, and twice buffingi t?
undone jacinth
yea assuming the player is always right is just as dumb
yea they are slow and made mistakes but that doesn’t take away from the fact they did a good thing
you’re just taking the worst take on everything
heavy sail
It’s really pertinent to what we’re discussing too, because there was a lot of feedback that m+ loot and PvE gearing in general felt too strong, and that PvP wasn’t worth doing because it was too weak
sick sentinel
The expansion they implemented the private feedback forum was MoP which was fantastic from the standpoint of responding to players wants and needs.
The team changed after MoP and the feedback forums became a giant "Oh no this is what you like" fest with blizzard many. MANY times outright admitting to ignoring feedback after the fact and saying they wouldnt do that again (and then doing that again). So I'm really just going off their own, quiet long standing, history.
heavy sail
Now it’s the opposite people are upset about
undone jacinth
you’re just being a Reddit meme honestly
yeah congrats you know about private forums because preach moaned about it or something
heavy sail
In all the years that WoW has existed the only time I can say I’ve truly hated the game and blizzard’s direction
Was WoD
undone jacinth
they made tons of good changes in SL and wheres all your praise for that?
hidden behind whining as usual
sick sentinel
I didnt even know preach omoaned about it 😛 I'm just mostly talking about my own experiences. Blizzard, outside of said forum, has admitted many times now to ignoring feedback while in the same breath apologizing (and then ignoring again)
undone jacinth
yea I mean I don’t really support dumb generalised statements
heavy sail
Not every piece of feedback is valid, is what I would say.
heavy sail
Not that blizzard gets a pass for ignoring feedback that was good, they’ve definitely done that
undone jacinth
just some things to work on, which they’ve even come out and addressed
heavy sail
But there’s equal measure of bad feedback
Because the players have no idea what they want, truly
undone jacinth
everyone has an idea, things just change after it all plays out
I thought I would like classic til I played it
heavy sail
I loved classic, and I think Blizzard’s loot philosophy for SL was in some way inspired by that demographic
sick sentinel
And this has happened before too. Where they'll do good for a time an then go right back to it. So I'm rather cautious. SL certainly did do quiet a bit of good and I never doubted that. BUt that doesn't mean that the problems are to be ignored. The PvE issues are major. The tank balance situations is major. The PvP balance isnt so hot. Maybe they'll fix it, but again, I basing my opinion on their own shoddy history over the last 7 years in regards to this exact subject.
heavy sail
I mean I could be talking out of my ass I don’t know what they think
But it seems that way
But gearing in classic is obviously a slog and people who love classic love it precisely for that reason imo
Among others
undone jacinth
yea they for sure got influenced by classic, they even said it
and that’s been a good thing
sick sentinel
Thats a simple way of looking at the classic gearing is part of the problem though. classic gearing isnt JUST about the gear coming slow. Theres a lot more to it.
heavy sail
Like in the 10 or so months of MC lockouts it took for me to get thunderfury
I’ve never felt so accomplished in a game ever
And encapsulating that feeling and trying to apply it to the game as it is now, is a good thing
sick sentinel
Yeah I miss the old legend system. It was long enough that it didnt become a requirement
undone jacinth
definitely miss those ultra rare items but it just doesn’t seem to suit how players play now
with just grinding and min maxing everything
classic is depressing to see tbh
going for parses on classes with 1 spell >.<
heavy sail
I started playing WoW at the very tail end of classic, a few weeks before TBC release.
sick sentinel
its something I figured would happen from the start: you cannot get back that "real" classic mentality. The Wow playerbase has changed too much
heavy sail
And I can say people definitely meta gamed back then
But the wealth of knowledge and experience wasn’t there
Nor the technology and development of all the addons and shit
There was a meta even then that raidlogging was the best way to play and that worldbuffs represented the biggest bump in performance.
undone jacinth
I played from beginning of classic, meta gaming was not a thing lol
heavy sail
People are just nostalgic for a version of a game that doesn’t and can never exist
sick sentinel
No the wealth of knowledge was there. Thats a false narrative to excuse the mentality now. They just didnt care as much. Community and a general love for game and setting was much more major.
sick sentinel
(been around since the vanilla beta)
undone jacinth
players were awful
strong forum
You had less knowledge, less min maxing, less addons, no logs
Less performance by default from servers and your PC
sick sentinel
at first yes, but people slammed into raiding hard. It didnt take long for them to figure things out.
undone jacinth
you’d have 20 people in your raid who didn’t even speak the same language lol
there just weren’t the resources you have now
strong forum
People did half the dps in vanilla compared to classic, if not less
heavy sail
There were some guilds more ahead of the curve than others
But the average DPS is definitely way higher
For classic
sick sentinel
Elitist jerks
strong forum
I played all of tbc without even knowing what dmg meter is or what dps is
astral crystal
Metagaming in vanilla was using thottbot
undone jacinth
to put it in perspective, YouTube did not exist when WoW launched
to say people knew what they were doing is crazy
sick sentinel
people knew what the meta was, people knew what worked. Just there was a FAR stronger mentality of "Its fine, do what you like". It was no mystery that only prot warriors could tank or that they had to spam that sunder. But people still took other tanks because "w/e, you're cool"
heavy sail
Nah, as far as I’m aware a “modern” form of metagaming only started happening post AQ
And by then TBC was on the horizon
When I played there definitely was a sense similar to classic
But it wasn’t the same obviously
People were still worse at the game for various reasons
undone jacinth
people knew what was good at what but the idea of taking 10 rogues and 10 mages and 10 warriors was not a thing
heavy sail
That’s true
undone jacinth
and even within what was good people really had no idea how to optimise or even what a lot of stuff did in terms of like timings
sick sentinel
Oh their was optimization and timings were well known early on. That did not take long.
Again it was more so that people largely didnt care near as hard as they do now. Now its weirdly enforced despite the power gaps (typically) getting smaller.
undone jacinth
think you just have a very faulty memory of the time
the resources did not exist
it’s not comparable to today
sick sentinel
Except they very much did. Theory crafting was major. Elitist jerks was the place to go in most cases and they had most of this stuff fairly down pat. BiS was a known thing and for each kind of content. Its just, people didnt really care as much so it wasnt something other than hardcore raiders often went for, and even they didnt hit it as hard as they do now.
LIke yes, I realize stuffi s clearing way faster in classic at the moment. but thats largely due to them using the final patch which had so many balance changes compared to early that the game had been severely power creeped.
undone jacinth
lol
sick sentinel
Whats the lol at? That elitist jerks bit or that classic is t he power creeped version of vanilla?
heavy sail
Isn’t elitist jerks ions guild
undone jacinth
yes I’m sure the power creep is what caused content that took months to take 1hour
some significant creeping
if you think the 0.1% of players who even knew where to find theory crafting content is comparable to the millions of people on wowhead/yt etc now then dunno what to say
sick sentinel
There legit was MASSIVE power creep yes. Largely in gear opimization. This is a very well known fact 😛 Vanilla had very major balance patches and itemization revamps.
sick sentinel
I know that.
undone jacinth
oh dear
sick sentinel
I was actually there when it happened so yes 😛 Launch vanilla and last patch vanilla were superemly different games from a itemization perspective.
Multiple class revamps too making many just plain more powerful (As they needed)
They actually have talked about this, the classic dev team, and how yes, the later patches made a lot of gear far mroe powerful and they'll be sticking with patch 1.12 stuff anyway (which I think was a good move)
undone jacinth
well if you take a picture of the earth from outer space then you can clearly see it’s not a sphere
sick sentinel
I mean, I was a casual player. I knew the meta, it was a very well known thing. I just, and my guild just, didnt really care and was ok with me playing what I wanted. It was a super common mentality. People knew what worked, they just largely didnt care.
And I cant believe you're doubting the vanilla patch 1.12 power creep XD Its not so much a thing of opinion but of straight fact.
One that again, even the devs admit to.
undone jacinth
tbc will come out, with no power creep, it will all die in an hour and then you will find something else to say
it’s pointless
you do you
sick sentinel
TBC will no doubt have the same power creep. TBC had WAY more raid problems and large balances and blizzard is going with the final iteration of each raid it seems. TBC was famous for how buggy and over tuned, then later nerfed, its bosses were XD.
Raid clears came on the heels of massive nerfs. It was a (fun) mess.
odd verge
Hey guys, sorry to off-track a little but i've quick question. I got some feedback earlier and seen a little improvement to my tanking/migitation. But I wanna check if there are there any Prot warrior logs URLs that I can compare mine to? And to learn from?
For example, what % mitigation I should be looking to achieve / SB uptimes / SS cast %s.
undone jacinth
wcl is warcraftlogs.com in case you don’t know
blazing condor
is heroic leap resetting taunt a SL thing?
undone jacinth
sounds like you might not 😉
blazing condor
or am i just incredibly stupid
undone jacinth
yea it is
blazing condor
phew i swear i had no idea lmao
odd verge
thanks!
undone jacinth
they even added it to the tool tip
this expac
it did it in BFA but it wasn’t on the tooltip
blazing condor
ive probably played it like it would reset but ive never acutally noticed
cinder pasture
I’m pretty sure they added it to the tooltip back in legion
undone jacinth
maybe I just never read it but didn’t think it said it in BFA
and very few people seemed to know about it so not sure
ionic fern
It was added in 7.0.1
undone jacinth
Rip my eyes
undone jacinth
they need more flavour text
strong forum
is heroic leap resetting taunt a SL thing?
Has been for 3expacs
heavy sail
Ret paladin makes me sad
jagged pier
^^ that tbh
orchid frigate
is it mufasa time?
foggy vapor
Hey im thinking of rerolling to prot previous bdk i know in raid its pretty fine but what about m+? just doing normal +15/16 keys atm. How does it look to do keys as prot does it feel good atm or is it as bad as some ppl said on beta and stuff?
ebon hound
Prot's good in keys
It's a stretch to say it feels good, but you can say that about every tank right now
I'm enjoying it atleast
foggy vapor
Yea true i have the feeling tanks are in a really bad state atm but meh i cant play bdk anymore it feels way too awful how is the threat generation as prot? my biggest issue with bdk is the threat generation (and mobility but prot has nice mobility)
ebon hound
Shouldn't have issue with threat
flat bramble
ebon hound
Ravager is great, and if you run Nightfae/Kyrian you'll have a second tool as well. If all goes to shit you also have the AoE taunt shout on a 4min cd
foggy vapor
okay yea that sounds nice and survivability on 15/16 should be fine too right? most of the dmg is melee and prot should deal with that fine right?
ebon hound
Yeah I'm not having issues as long as I can keep my block up
echo egret
Question on De Other Side / Ardenweald - Can you pull all the stealthed mobs around the drake without pulling the drake itself when they move to you ?
ebon hound
Yeah, it's doable
echo egret
ok
sick sentinel
Pretty sure they sanguine and bolster and whatever
undone jacinth
yea they are just normal mobs
midnight jetty
theres no haste vers shield is there this tier?
strong forum
Na pvp is crit/vers and raid is hast/mastery I think
But m+ has a haste vers shield I think
From necrotic wake iirc
undone jacinth
pretty sure it’s not
otherwise I would have at least more than 0% motivation to do NW keys
signal plover
NW shield is crit/vers
Mists is haste/mast I think
I could have sworn there was a haste/vers one somewhere
signal plover
But I may be thinking weapon
undone jacinth
I was gonna move to Oregon
then a week later that guy got shot in the street
decided America wasn’t for me!
modern brook
Just dont go in the streets
u'll be fine
Also tbh theres plenty of better reasons to not come to the USA
uneven mason
That's for another channel.
undone jacinth
yea when I saw your average work hours and holiday/sick allowance it was not a good look
uneven mason
My company gives REally good sickleave benefits and holidays, but yup most don't allow for PTO sickleave
real veldt
Is Beating Abomination Core a good tank trinket? I'm seeing all kinds of wildly different takes-- some comments are saying it does tons of healing, some are saying it barely heals at all, and some people theorizing it was stealth nerfed at some point.
modern brook
is that the one that makes slimes?
real veldt
No, it's the one with a chance to heal you when you take damage (and any overhealing becomes an absorb)
modern brook
ah no comment then
solemn magnet
Tell me about the healing slime one, tho. I tried it the first time yesterday and dunno if it's affected by necrotic, UT it didn't feel super great?
real veldt
uneven mason
abom core is around 90HPS
undone jacinth
My company gives REally good sickleave benefits and holidays, but yup most don't...
out of curiosity what is good to you?
real veldt
@uneven mason That's not great
Unless the healing is particularly bursty and the proc chance scales based on the damage of a hit, meaning it has a higher chance to do a big heal when you're getting trucked, but even then... meh
modern brook
took me a second to realize you were talking about 90hps and not 20+2+1
uneven mason
<@!123448908838862849> That's not great
Unless the healing is particularly burs...
Nope its a 1.25PPM and about 4200per proc at 184ilvl
real veldt
Blech
uneven mason
iirc it was I think 3ppm originally
real veldt
Is there an addon that can show ppm, or is that something that people only ever find out about via testing?
uneven mason
ah ok no originally it was 4x the healing
real veldt
Like, show it on the item's tooltip, I mean, idk if it's some kind of hidden parameter you can grab with a script
uneven mason
looking at hte history
uneven mason
20k heal 1.25x per minute
real veldt
But it would explain why people on wowhead were saying it was good, when you account for the fact that wowhead tends to be terrible at knowing what good tank trinkets are
undone jacinth
I get 35 days hols and 14 days sick paid plus any justified sickness 😦
real veldt
I haven't played much since Cata, so I guess I'm still using older trinkets as a measuring stick, and some of the ones from that era were bonkers
Like Mirror of Broken Images and Stay of Execution
uneven mason
I get 35 days hols and 14 days sick paid plus any justified sickness 😦
yup, my wife is from Canada and she's like "wait, you don't get any paternity leave?"
uneven mason
it was up NA at 184 ilvl I saw it and got excited
then I read the change they made on Nov 17th
22,000healing to 4200 healing
vendored it
sweet summit
oh
uneven mason
Can't have warriors self sustaining through +5s now can we.
sweet summit
strong forum
But it would explain why people on wowhead were saying it was good, when you acc...
It was broken on beta, now its not broken anymore
strong forum
yup, my wife is from Canada and she's like "wait, you don't get any paternity le...
You get up to 2 years of paternity leave in Germany :)
modern brook
You get up to 2 years of paternity leave in Germany :)
i think we get a month lol
modern brook
mostly this tbh
strong forum
Country of freedom my ass 
most % of people in prisons, literal wage slaving and no vacation days or healthcare
But alas
modern brook
Sure but chanting USA is much cooler than yelling DE
so honestly its an even trade
🇺🇸 🦅 🇺🇸
strong forum
If you chant DE outside of world cup of football you get fined / imprisoned / cancelled
So there's that trade
modern brook
Wasnt tryna pull WW2 into it
strong forum
Don't have that good of history of patriotism ykno
modern brook
just taking what little we got
signal plover
Sir this is a Wendy's
lusty marsh
I wouldn't mind immigrating out personally but it's never as simple as deciding you want to.
solemn magnet
I did a 13 SD, which is pushing for me. It was no bueno
lusty marsh
I like SD
heavy sail
America’s wack and I would leave at any opportunity if not for family and difficult immigration policies
lusty marsh
The only scary parts are before the bridge if you over pull and the dredger room.
solemn magnet
It's easy to blame it on shitter dps, but I'm sure I'm to blame for it not going great too.
heavy sail
Healing necrotic fucking sucks
lusty marsh
By overkill I mean facepull by trying to use the anima container
heavy sail
Like the tank being 100% in control of his fate
lusty marsh
Easy to get that patrolling garg
uneven mason
I literally flunked being the tank on that +12 because I didn't grab a bat to complete trash until we were at the boss.
heavy sail
Is not my jam
uneven mason
Easy to get that patrolling garg
run into the room
solemn magnet
I +2'd an HoA the instance before with my same healer, so ima blame the dps
uneven mason
across from bridge, the pack inside that room
go into the room
garg won't see you
lusty marsh
If trying does the anima container work through walls?
lusty marsh
Or do you just skip it
heavy sail
Divine Toll fucking slams by the way
lusty marsh
Oh damn
uneven mason
you have to knockback them into the wall
heavy sail
That ability does hella healing
uneven mason
but it works
That being said, you don't super need the DPS from that buff unless you want to +3 the key
SD is very evenly paced.
evne on tyrannical
lusty marsh
Yeah, I normally skip it.
sick sentinel
had 2 mawrats (field mice) invading my apartment past like winter i guess, (been -10 to -20 c everyday day for about a month now), killed em bot anyway
lusty marsh
Too many ripped pulls trying to stand in it
uneven mason
Yeah prot is pumper
sick sentinel
set traps for them, and killed 2 of them in the same night 12 hrs
undone jacinth
it was my escape to have fun
but now that’s my pala
so warr is a weekly bitch til I decide what I wanna do with it
uneven mason
set traps for them, and killed 2 of them in the same night 12 hrs
Field mice was 50% Of my work back when I used to fix outdoor pool heaters, because they'd get in there and chew up all the insulation, get stuck in the soot pipes ( is smells horrifyingly bad)
solemn magnet
The worst part about my failed SD is that the shitter dps were all like must be a tough week for prot warrior... they would've never believed me if I responded.
heavy sail
Tbf it is a tough week for every tank
sick sentinel
i am not patient enough with the plank+hairtrigger traps, but they work the best once set up.
uneven mason
The worst part about my failed SD is that the shitter dps were all like *must be...
healer I ran with last night had been doing a lot of dungeons with paladins VDH and Bears and they were like "wow, I had been avoiding prot warriors, but you are amazingly easy to keep alive through necrotic"
"Cause I rely on stopping damage, not healing it"
sick sentinel
use some cheap plastic one with plastic teeth now.
undone jacinth
Prot is dope on necrotic weeks due to kyrian too
heavy sail
Yup
uneven mason
NF
undone jacinth
loser
uneven mason
altho yeah phial
solemn magnet
The healer I run with says that to me every time after he does a dungeon with our bdk lol
uneven mason
is pretty nice to remove it
heavy sail
Kyrian is the patrician covenant
uneven mason
but so is soul shape
uneven mason
TFW you gimp your souldbind to have 8s of immunity to a debuff that doesn't matter once its been removed once a pull
solemn magnet
It was just a fluke I think. All my other 11s and 12s this week have been fine.
uneven mason
I mean
sick sentinel
i really, really, really miss being ally any race, human remove stun, dwarve remove B/M/P effects and give armor, fire dwarve same but get main stat
uneven mason
BDK is a horrible tank to heal
undone jacinth
it matters in lots of spots
heavy sail
BDK’s fate is in their own hands
They hardly even need to be healed
But if they die 9/10 it’s on them
sick sentinel
just straight up remove any stun or BMP effect is kinda stupidly broken for a tank to use at will
when they don't have those to that class as basic
uneven mason
They hardly even need to be healed
That was BFA BDK, is SL BDK needs a lot of external help
Its my least favorite tank to heal
because everything rips them to peices
uneven mason
maybe if they massively outgear the dungeon
heavy sail
Though they do need more healing than before
uneven mason
Oh no doubt, thats true for all tanks tho
sick sentinel
my old GM was a BDK so i can say for sure they would dip really low and then death strike and be full hp again
undone jacinth
in high keys they are self sustaining because they are healing for way more
uneven mason
if I die as a prot warrior 90% of the time its because I didn't predict incoming damage and prepare for it.
uneven mason
yeah, disc + BDK is strong
I'm on my resto shm pumping healing surge into them like its water
keke
sick sentinel
i still prefer warrior tank over anything though, you can actively PREVENT 90% of the threat damage if you are paying attention and you can leap and charge through the air
heavy sail
I have a resto alt, for some reason I just don’t “get” it.
undone jacinth
I’ve you’re trying to direct heal them they are probably dead tbh
amber sedge
Hey guys, so my guild worked on Mythic Inerva a bit last night - we got her to 12 percent once, consistently to 30-40, but couldn't consistently get her low to kill her. Anyway, tank deaths/me were not the reason we were wiping, but I do think I have a lot of space to improve on that fight to limit my damage intake.
I think I may be shield blocking too much (vs. ignore pain) given the dot damage and that shield block is less than useless in the times you have to spin to face the adds. Can anyone with good experience on her speak to if you are de-prioritizing shield block ? The top damage parses use more shield block (makes sense) and the top healing parses use more IP (makes sense) so just trying to get an idea of what others are doing.
On a related note, is Anger Management the play over Bolster on her? And if so, is the Ignore Pain conduit the play (for her specifically) over the last stand conduit?
sick sentinel
its like a class fantasy for me, the bartender that is drunk at the end of a party, and a fight brreaks out but its on his property, so he runs over and picks up the guy slaps him around, yells and everyone runs out the door
something like that is the idea why enjoy PW so much
heavy sail
I haven’t prog’d mythic yet @amber sedge
But I can say just from a conceptual perspective that IP is probably a priority cast considering the DoT does more than melee hits
And I would say bolster is still the play
But maybe someone else has perspective on that
amber sedge
Yeah. I was shifting more and more to IP as the night went on, but of course then I did notice her melee hits were adding more damage so it was like - well, fucked if I do, fucked if I don't lol
jagged pier
Hey guys, so my guild worked on Mythic Inerva a bit last night - we got her to ...
ive done less progression on this than you but i looked up stuff before the fight its about a 50/50 split on bolster or AM the dot is the worst part and yopu only need SB up with tanking which is fine
to take AM
from what ive found
and the extra SWs will be nice imo
graceful sundial
AM is better in Innerva imo. With the tank swap you will get enough sb uptime
outer solstice
Hey guys, so my guild worked on Mythic Inerva a bit last night - we got her to ...
you never want to have 2 stacks of SB I'd say
undone jacinth
damage is also mega value on inerva
outer solstice
if you tank ^^
undone jacinth
I would take AM
heavy sail
Yeah it’s a DPS check fight
outer solstice
AM is bae, especially with stalwart + wall
amber sedge
Yeah. I wish I had thought of swapping mid raid last night but didn't have the werewithal to think of it haha
graceful sundial
The only dangerous moment on that boss is when Specter is up or your healers are not paying attention to you.
amber sedge
I found the scariest moments were when our holy pally had to go deal with orbs lol
we were running 3 heals, resto shammy, pally, and Disc Priest
undone jacinth
disc priest tank healing 😖
heavy sail
Yeah not ideal
sick sentinel
say what you want about disc priest but i fucking love bubble vroom
amber sedge
Yeah, disc + prot war is miserable in M+ :p
undone jacinth
bubble speed on bear is actually legit
heavy sail
I’ve played with some great disc players but they’re still my least favorite healer to pickup for pugs
undone jacinth
it’s the only satisfaction I get from having them
heavy sail
I’d rather invite a holy priest tbh
Cant trust people to not take avoidable damage
And disc can’t react for shit
outer solstice
holy is amazing
outer solstice
also holy damage can be quite strong
heavy sail
They’re great at raid throughout
outer solstice
they are also great on single throughput
they are not the best in anything
but they can do all the jobs
besides DPS and healing at once
undone jacinth
I always kinda liked them tbh but their damage is a big issue in timing keys
outer solstice
well that's mostly due to the holy player not knowing what they do
you hae to find the time to DPS as holy
like, shrug let the tank drop if you have guardian angel and ephiphany ready and DPS instead
pop angel and epihany, tank is topped, more DPS go
but most holy priests are just tooo dumb
undone jacinth
yea any class obviously gets way better if the player is skilled, the gap closes
heavy sail
Just so we’re clear haha
undone jacinth
but you have to use averages when you’re pugging :p
outer solstice
yeah average holy priest doesn't even cast smite or pain
multidotting holy priest, is fun
heavy sail
I don’t mind holy at all, in fact I like them, but I wouldn’t say I prefer them over other healers
Just disc really
undone jacinth
it’s why shadow priest is the only class on my ban list
the average player is so awful at it
and it does negative damage
undone jacinth
their healing is kinda bad but they are nice to have
heavy sail
Holy Pally is hit and miss
outer solstice
well I don't mind what they play if they have the XP
heavy sail
I’ve played with great ones and terrible ones
undone jacinth
holy pala is the tank healer I always feel safest with
heavy sail
The spec is fine it’s just that some people suck at managing the whole “no AoE” healing
undone jacinth
interesting
heavy sail
You really only have one big AoE cooldown and it’s a long one
So it’s tough to manage sometimes
undone jacinth
people probs not having mouseovers
heavy sail
The tank healing is great though
outer solstice
@heavy sail yeah but back to holy priest in M+ you don't want to use many of your AoE kit, that's why you need a completely different gear set, you want to spike ppl with flash heals
undone jacinth
oh god we got a holy priest player
heavy sail
Yeah mouseovers are mandatory
outer solstice
I am as well, my 2nd main is holy priest xD
heavy sail
For holy paladin
outer solstice
and yes healers without mouseovers, REEEEEEEEE
undone jacinth
where’s my crucifix
heavy sail
And most healers really
outer solstice
hell, even DPS target macros
like every DPS spell of mine is [harm][@focus,harm][@targettarget,harm]
so I can keep tank in target and DPS without thinking about it
and heal everyone else withmouseovers
undone jacinth
healer gameplay 😂
outer solstice
... I regulary beat tanks in DPS as holy priest,,.... in mainraid we have a holy priest that is only doing 400-500 DPS,... it infuriating
but well he plays NF,... which is like necrolord for us
heavy sail
Christ
outer solstice
yeah, most classes are incredible when played at ceiling performance
but how's the average,... holy P dying to every shit like many melee DPS...
heavy sail
Holy paladins are basically a DPS spec that occasionally uses WoG if you play venthyr like that
heavy sail
undone jacinth
or bubble and kill them with a mechanic
outer solstice
undone jacinth
on my Prot pala yesterday I just bopped myself on top last boss
to kill our DH doing 1k dps
gave me wings ez
outer solstice
uneven mason
Ahh scyth
outer solstice
dodging scythe ew
uneven mason
outer solstice
undone jacinth
I like that they nerfed spell reflect basically everywhere
then just left that insane one in
undone jacinth
it doesn’t reflect damage right?
outer solstice
it does
undone jacinth
meh damage is irrelevant on that phase anyway
lofty widget
it's random how many reflects you get
undone jacinth
maybe on mythic p3
outer solstice
but yeah, you get no dmg from blood price P1
lofty widget
i've gotten anywhere from 1-5
outer solstice
whcih is relevant
undone jacinth
is it
outer solstice
especially as we charge back down to the boss and instantly take hits again
undone jacinth
I guess if you have lower gear it’s good
outer solstice
even with higher gear though
I don't like it when healers are running...
even with 219 xD
undone jacinth
I’ve never really noticed him doing damage in p1
outer solstice
oh btw, anima field emitter is amazing!
@undone jacinth you have a competent disc priest?
undone jacinth
not a competent one nope
outer solstice
oh well, we neither xD
outer solstice
but yeah his damage is not even remotely as high as in P2 and P3 in terms of tank dmg
undone jacinth
omg trialled for new guild and we went to sire to get vessels before mythic
I died to massacre
outer solstice
how shit was it?
undone jacinth
my heart sank
undone jacinth
never in my life have I
undone jacinth
and there I was, the only player in the raid dead
outer solstice
show
undone jacinth
Shoulda gquit
outer solstice
you don't want to know how badly I f***** up when I joined a top 100 guild first time
heavy sail
Embarrassing
outer solstice
good luck
undone jacinth
then on hungering in mythic I got given miasma and ejection as we were running back from the consume
literally horrific
nobody soaked me and I died
I was like oh no not again
outer solstice
oh well at least you didn't blow up the raid
heavy sail
At least that one isn’t your fault
undone jacinth
sometimes it’s better to kill somebody else and hope they don’t notice why they died
undone jacinth
lmao
undone jacinth
I know was just kidding
outer solstice
keeping shut about a mess up would be a 100% trial not-passed for me
but yeah ^^ you got me there
undone jacinth
the best thing was the guy battle resd me while dropping expunge
so I spawned on his ducking orb
heavy sail
Shattering pain and massacre overlap makes my dick hurt
outer solstice
oO, why?
undone jacinth
is that even a thing
outer solstice
once
undone jacinth
I don’t remember that ever being an issue but it sounds like an issue
heavy sail
I don’t know the exact scenario with which it happens because I’ve only had it happen a couple times
But yeah it’s awful
Must be the timing he phases
undone jacinth
do you burn p2
outer solstice
nah everything resets when he enters P3
heavy sail
Then yeah idk
outer solstice
the shatter is just at the end of massacre I think
undone jacinth
I guess I just find a long gap and get knocked along it
I thought it was right after tho
heavy sail
It usually is
I don’t think they’re intended to overlap
Had it happen once in a guild run and a couple people died but we didn’t wipe
And then another time during a pug where it wiped the raid
But beyond those two times I’ve never seen it happen
So I do wonder if it’s a bug? I guess it’s never happened to you guys
lilac bloom
can i ask whats the % stat do we need to do heroic sire for protection warriors
heavy sail
What
sweet summit
there are no magic stat % needed anywhere
lilac bloom
i'm just wondering why is it so easy on phase 1 but hard on phase 2.. must be something i'm lacking
undone jacinth
because it does more damage in p2
modern brook
^
uneven mason
Know what an exciting bug is
undone jacinth
you have to pay attention to swapping at the right times and using your defensives when you’re going through mirror etc
uneven mason
for HC Sunking, having adds continue to spawn through both shade phases
that was fun
modern brook
- im p sure the tank buster is literally "take more damage" and 2) You're very possibly standing in shit / tanking both bosses
heavy sail
Or not swapping properly
lilac bloom
and if i was tuanting i should not go far from sire cos if i make him teleport..he will do 50% more damage right?
heavy sail
The tank damage in p2 is rough
uneven mason
no he just hits you for 50% dmg shadow
undone jacinth
just don’t go far from him anyway, doesn’t matter if he does damage or not
lilac bloom
but that still hurts enough to kill me
lilac bloom
i use spell reflect during mirror
lilac bloom
oh i tried to stand behind that
undone jacinth
paste logs if you want a proper response
lavish thorn
guys, my face has just been destroyed in 9 Necrotic Wake, mainly due to affix stacks. the healer had some blue gear but I believe it was my fault to die like 4 times. ilvl is 213...... the average DPS of damagers was 3k. is this my fault to be so weak, or mostly healer's or dps fault? I want to develop my skill
uneven mason
paste logs if you want a proper response
☝️
undone jacinth
people say stuff that normally isn’t correct
modern brook
@lilac bloom if you have logs we can give information / advice that doesnt have a "probably" rider
otherwise taunt correctly and use ur defensives :^)
undone jacinth
guys, my face has just been destroyed in 9 Necrotic Wake, mainly due to affix st...
it’s on you buddy
uneven mason
guys, my face has just been destroyed in 9 Necrotic Wake, mainly due to affix st...
DPS was 3k?
heavy sail
@lavish thorn impossible to say based on the info, but 3k DPS is shit for a +9
uneven mason
healer in blue gear?
heavy sail
If you die to necrotic though yeah it’s probably you
uneven mason
I Mean, you shouldn't die at 213ilvl
in a +9
you hardly should need healing atall
undone jacinth
exactly
lilac bloom
my cds too long
lavish thorn
yes, that worries me a lot
modern brook
I Mean, you shouldn't die at 213ilvl
your dps should also be doing over 3k
undone jacinth
at that ilvl you can keep yourself alive no matter what
modern brook
this is a failure across the board
uneven mason
Your DPS should be doing like, 4500min
modern brook
thats the good news
uneven mason
avg
modern brook
no one fucked that key
uneven mason
everyone fucked that key
undone jacinth
bruh people do less than 4.5k in 14s lol
heavy sail
Shameful
modern brook
Per pull or overall?
undone jacinth
overall
heavy sail
Fury warriors would never
modern brook
4.5 is like higher end of average in my experience
heavy sail
Private
jagged pier
its private
modern brook
oof
undone jacinth
depends on player and gear but 3k dps in a 9 is perfectly fine
lavish thorn
my dps was fine, but survival
... I felt that mobs survived much longer then they did in 10s
undone jacinth
to time the key
lilac bloom
oh damn
heavy sail
It’s fine, like you could time it easily
undone jacinth
it’s not but i would say that’s high for a 9
heavy sail
But 3k is still shit
undone jacinth
yeah ofc but the average player is shit
lavish thorn
I mean necrotic stacks made me die
uneven mason
run away
undone jacinth
are you kyrian
uneven mason
shockwave - leap, jog
lavish thorn
venthyr
jagged pier
I mean necrotic stacks made me die
then thats your fault for not playing the affix
undone jacinth
okay
jagged pier
can even fear and run
undone jacinth
set yourself a necrotic stack amount that you are comfortable with, let’s say 20-25 to begin with and then start to kite at that amount to learn the mechanics
lavish thorn
shall I get back from the pack until stacks time out?
undone jacinth
yes
undone jacinth
keep doing the 20-25 then reset rule until you are comfortable with trying more
use ur leap/sw/clap slow to help you get out
then back in you go
undone jacinth
?
uneven mason
the primary issue you seemed to have tho
lavish thorn
I mean I will try
uneven mason
is your DPS was shit
jagged pier
3k for a +9 is fine
undone jacinth
we +2d an 8 spires last night with a 1.9k, 2.4K and 3.2k dps
lavish thorn
nice
undone jacinth
it was actually a DH but usually it’s a priest or an arcane mage in my experience
uneven mason
Bad Spriests are bad
undone jacinth
like insanely bad
undone jacinth
I’ve never seen a good one so I just get lead to think that is just how they are
but it can’t be
silver trout
heavy sail
I could understand someone being shit with firemage
undone jacinth
I heard their aoe set up is hard to maximise
heavy sail
Because I too am shit
real jewel
i've never met a bad spriest
uneven mason
yup
undone jacinth
welp looks like I’m cursed then
snow harbor
but ive seen some awful ones in lfg. just seen awful players in general in lfg lol
uneven mason
the one I run with pushes 4700 ST and 6k avg on a dungeon
heavy sail
The usual suspect for bottom DPS in my experience tend to be FotM played extremely poorly
Like affliction locks
Spriest, MM
uneven mason
Fire mage doing 3k avg at 208ilvl was my favorite "FoTM gone wrong" so far.
undone jacinth
that guy was 222 ilvl
snow harbor
yeah the fotm classes are usually a little bit more difficult to play. i swear blizzard balances shit to the best of their abilities, then unforeseen synergies are discovered by the player base that makes a spec slap, and fotm is born
undone jacinth
very true
uneven mason
I mean, they really didn't balance anything this Xpac
snow harbor
ehh idk, healers are very well balanced
undone jacinth
unforeseen synergies like Hunter casting true shot
heavy sail
It’s not that FotM is more difficult, they really aren’t, it’s just that people google “best DPS shadowlands”
uneven mason
"unforseen synergies" - shit that ignores armor is suddenly OP when you buff NPCs armor but don't reduce DOT damage classes throughput
heavy sail
And think that picking a spec will make them do good DPS
Just on its own merit
Like MM Hunter is fairly braindead
But I’ve seen many many terrible hunters so far
snow harbor
i might get crucified for this, but tanks are preeeetty well balanced.... 😬 and a mass of the dps is pretty well balanced.
undone jacinth
oh you just reminded me of the guy in a +7 lfg who asked if I had a Lego and when I said no said that I needed it to do +7s and booted me
undone jacinth
if you ignore DH tank balance is really good
snow harbor
theres definitely some outliers, but i think a good portion of it is raid mechanics as well?
undone jacinth
always is yeah
snow harbor
i mean, theres one good cleave fight. big sad for frost mage and arms warrior
uneven mason
if you ignore DH tank balance is really good
DH for a tank is balanced, the fact that they did away with all anti kite mechanics in SL dungeons is not
undone jacinth
arms has some perfect fights but it’s still trash
heavy sail
There’s much larger gaps between the balance in DPS compared to heals and tanks
heavy sail
But the bottom tier DPS aren’t that horrible, it’s mostly community perception mixed with a little analytics
snow harbor
There’s much larger gaps between the balance in DPS compared to heals and tanks
yeah i definitely agree with that
uneven mason
It falls into the same category - physical damage based classes are weaker this Xpac because they adjusted NPC armor upwards
undone jacinth
there’s also way more of them though
uneven mason
but didn't increase base damage to compensate
undone jacinth
a lot of the middle dps are really close
uneven mason
so classes that don't use physical damage are just flat out doing a ton more
snow harbor
thats the first ive heard of that Ikarikaze
undone jacinth
havoc is totally fine imo
uneven mason
DH is the one that got left behind
heavy sail
Frost and arcane are crap
undone jacinth
u just don’t need one because of veng
uneven mason
Havoc is suffering bad overall in DPS
heavy sail
But they can always respec to a better one
snow harbor
noooe. DH is super low dps and absolutely laughable in pvp
uneven mason
but they do ok in M+
undone jacinth
I don’t even think about pvp
snow harbor
frost is better than people think now
heavy sail
Hunt slaps @snow harbor
undone jacinth
but I’m pretty sure their raid dps isn’t that bad
uneven mason
Frost is good, its just overshadowed by Unholy
snow harbor
frost mage i mean
heavy sail
DH is worse in PvP than it used to be
uneven mason
DH ST DPS is shitty
heavy sail
But it’s not laughable
heavy sail
On the basis of the hunt alone
lusty marsh
Arms is big deeps
uneven mason
yeah thats why arms is crappy in PVE still haha
they're too lazy to do the extra steps to buff its PVE and nerf its PVP more than that single MS change
undone jacinth
logs have havoc on the lower end but they still seem fine
uneven mason
fury is really good in M+ for trash
heavy sail
Yup
uneven mason
but its painful watching them DPS tyrannical bosses
heavy sail
One of the best
undone jacinth
my issue with them is always just that their utility is kinda ass
uneven mason
Fury pumps so hard I'll rip aggro when I DPS offa paladins/monks
heavy sail
But it’s hard to justify bringing them on the basis of clearing trash alone
uneven mason
you're not wrong.
undone jacinth
if they had an aoe stun or something I think i wouldn’t mind taking them as much
snow harbor
yeah dps warr could use an aoe stun
or even like a... stuns up to 3 targets in an arc
something like that would be legit
undone jacinth
or just a better slow
lusty marsh
If only you could spec swap mid dungeon
snow harbor
piercing howl is intense slow
snow harbor
true, but dont need at all times
undone jacinth
I just look at monks and I’m like oh right
heavy sail
Fury’s lack of utility is fine if they just pumped harder
undone jacinth
rop nuts, tigers lust nuts, Tod nuts
uneven mason
if they had an aoe stun or something I think i wouldn’t mind taking them as much
I'm NF, got AE stun
uneven mason
Piercing howl is a 70% slow
snow harbor
then go NF forehead
undone jacinth
on a cd
snow harbor
xD
undone jacinth
I would be nf if my main wasn’t
uneven mason
if you have to kite for more than 8s
lilac bloom
there
heavy sail
It’s bullshit that hunters get everything man
heavy sail
They give the tank free threat, have mobility, immunities, long CC, huge AoE damage, a slow, a self sustain
We know who the blizz developers main, all I’m sayin
Hunter and mage mains
snow harbor
ehh, the melee affixes arent too bad. there was a lot of double melee comps in mdi
undone jacinth
I think the main justification is melee kicks but that feels outdated
snow harbor
and we always run double melee in our shitter 12s and 13s
undone jacinth
mdi definitely not a good benchmark for live
snow harbor
just too hard to run triple melee now
heavy sail
Doesn’t ele have a 12s range kick lol
undone jacinth
on live spiteful weeks bringing melee is just losing time on your key guaranteed
heavy sail
And all the ranged classes have a long CD one
snow harbor
for sure, but ranged were like 0 representation in M+ before this expac. maybe fire mage with their giga mastery
heavy sail
Except like shadow priest
uneven mason
yeah, and pay for that by being in 70% Of patches the literally lowest DPS ranged spec ever.
Elemental shamans
heavy sail
Silence doesn’t really count as a kick because the cooldown is disgusting
uneven mason
are generally dumpserfire