hard respect
#protection
tardy parcel
Yeah, I've had guild members complain about the same thing. "But bring me to your 15s so I can work towards the mount!" leaves an awful taste in my mouth whenever it's said lol. My whole thing is that I don't even bother with m+ for the gear (beyond the vault)... it's just the main thing that feels rewarding to push in. Raiding is whatever because I have very little control over whether or not we succeed on a fight, for the most part lol. M+ is fun from a "brain happy" perspective of just feeling good about pushing higher and higher.
modern brook
Yeah, I've had guild members complain about the same thing. "But bring me to yo...
We dont even consider guild mates for 15s that cant pull ~4k overall
Its not worth it
tardy parcel
yeup
modern brook
If you cant hit 4k overall and still want master; pay me 🤷♂️
tardy parcel
feels a little insulting to assume you have a free pass to that stuff without putting in any of the effort to even reach a 15 just because you're in the guild lol
modern brook
AFter you hit 4k and cant kick, then well talk tbh
tardy parcel
sorry for airing out my dirty laundry in here for a second 😶
lusty marsh
No worries.
modern brook
complaining about shitter dps is like 85% of #protection tbh
lusty marsh
I kinda just dps shamed my first mage inadvertently too.
modern brook
other 5% is answering things in the pins and the last 10 or so is everything else
lusty marsh
The last 10% is us talking about what changes would "save" prot.
modern brook
I kinda just dps shamed my first mage inadvertently too.
Not shaming its just weird. I have a frost mage in my group (a good one) and glacial frag is like ~50+% of his damage ina key ovreall
I assume its just some WCL wonkiness
IDR get how WCL logs keys tbh
I would love it if it broke the key up the way it did raid encounters but thats probably much harder than i think it is lol
lusty marsh
It's just hard for me to cope with the fact that all dps aren't trying to make their numbers the biggest numbers.
That was my drive raiding as lock in bfa
tardy parcel
A lot of people are chill just sort of floating by on whatever their current numbers are, honestly. I guess they assume that they'll just bump up numbers with gear and nothing else? The difference in talking with a player who is very serious about researching the optimization of their damage and a player who's just along for the ride is insane.
modern brook
It's just hard for me to cope with the fact that all dps aren't trying to make t...
im on the other end of this lol. I really wish people would chill with trying to parse and just use a fucking stun in a key holy shit
strong forum
Wheres the fun if you do small pp dmg
signal plover
If you're doing keys with guildies that do one key per week, most of them are not going to be using their CDs frequently enough. I have tons of solid raiders that I do keys with that just sit on CDs for bosses n stuff without realizing how much of an impact it has.
signal plover
Not to mention they basically have no idea what mechanics dungeon bosses do until they die to it.
modern brook
yeah imagine using Int shout
strong forum
In m+ you should suddenly use everything + use your CDs even on small pulls and not only on bosses or 20+ mob pulls
Raid brain can't comprehend
And then they don't know why their overall dmg is so low
signal plover
Yep
strong forum
"it feels so bad to use CDs on 3 mobs, I hate when tanks don't pull big"
signal plover
Most CDs are very short now and any gaps on bosses get covered by hero/prideful
strong forum
Aka "I have no clue about dungeons so I sit on CDs forever waiting for smth that won't happen"
signal plover
The good dps simply know exactly how to time it
And/or coordinate with tank on pull size
lusty marsh
I'd love to mass pull, shadowlands just dissagrees.
strong forum
Often I have to tell my dps players "if you use CDs now you will have them ready for the pull after this/boss"
modern brook
"it feels so bad to use CDs on 3 mobs, I hate when tanks don't pull big"
my favorite part of this mindset is when you share the route and they're like "lol i dont have to know it thats a tanks job"
strong forum
Not for the exact next pull, but you get to use CDs twice, instead of only once but on a slightly "bigger" pack
And then they often agree
strong forum
my favorite part of this mindset is when you share the route and they're like "l...
That's why I get tilted very easily in m+
Cuz im the one who barely knows anything
modern brook
Tyr necro bolster
tardy sequoia
tyrannical necrotic bolstering
lusty marsh
Ew
modern brook
Worst affixes by objective fun: Bolster > Spiteful > old grievous idr how the new one is
lusty marsh
Spiteful wouldn't be as big an issue if people didn't just mongo the shades.
Let cc happen
modern brook
Spiteful wouldn't be as big an issue if people didn't just mongo the shades.
Spiteful in concept is fine
signal plover
Literally just need a nameplate fixate WA and ur good
modern brook
in practice, the mobs have like a 50yd punch range and will attack before they finish spawning and theres 0 counter play to themb esides "just dont be in melee 4head"
signal plover
I just hamstring shades lol
lusty marsh
Intimidating shout is great.
amber herald
personally I enjoy watching my melee friends getting instagibbed by shades
serves them right for playing a melee in sl
modern brook
serves them right for playing a melee in sl
honestly this
lusty marsh
We have so many more rets in my guild this xpac
amber herald
I would like an arrow or some kind of indicator that there's a shade targetting you though
lusty marsh
We had like 1 in raid bfa last night we had like 5.
amber herald
melee die because they risk it so they can keep doing dmg
timber lagoon
You get them fixate eyes over your head if you're targeted by shades
lusty marsh
How is arms in high keys. Maybe I can pugs as braindead dps
solemn magnet
They also turn red
lusty marsh
Hmmm
uneven mason
but for ST, suck at ST but chews up trash like crazy
sadly the #1 boss warriors fight is "Community Perception" and he's unfortunately 100% resistant to logic and facts.
lusty marsh
I do have 2 two handers thanks to pvp
amber herald
You get them fixate eyes over your head if you're targeted by shades
oh really? Guess my melee are just dumb then
also, we have a fury warrior and they cleave like crazy
v.good
lusty marsh
I wonder of linking my tank io is enough to show I'm competent. Tanks taking dps jobs away :p
amber herald
I unashamedly whisper people my KSM achievment now
still get told to get lost though
amber herald
I've been tryharding every week since m+ came out with a group of decent players
I'm a bit lost as to what to do with the rest of the patch now tbh
lusty marsh
I think I definitely could get ksm but I'd need to make a group and I'd definitely burn some keys practicing.
That's the main reason I don't pug, making my own group is not up my alley.
amber herald
I asspulled the pack that's straight ahead out of the gate on our first 15 mists key
instantly pulling it
so yeah lots of bricked keys lmao
lusty marsh
Imagine not having a nightfae
sick sentinel
i did like one or 2 keys, and in my very first tuesday key +5 nw someone left with like a ton of time at 3rd boss
amber herald
no... with a nightfae
lusty marsh
F
amber herald
yeah... 
lusty marsh
Leavers suck.
sick sentinel
so, i'm don't get paid enough to deal with pepega pugs bolster, necrotic and tyranical this week
lusty marsh
Oh def not this week
Even with kleia I don't like necrotic
Add bolstering shudders
Remember my first bolstering week, I asked if the 1st boss smiles bolster. And everyone said no.
So I pulled the room.
Tbf we killed all but 3 slimes.
sick sentinel
kite the adds away so you can get healed and then they catch more adds while u kiting, then they bolster
nice trick blizzard
lusty marsh
Speaking of catching more adds, screw PF skeletons.
heavy sail
I have a new appreciation for healers after healing a +12SD
lusty marsh
Is it not enough that they slap for ungodly amounts. Do they have to run off at low health and pull friends too
heavy sail
Christ almighty
undone jacinth
I'm just doing my 10 mists this week but even those are barely being timed
lusty marsh
I'll do at least a 14
undone jacinth
Not Fun
lusty marsh
Need that 223
undone jacinth
I meant 10 14s xd
undone jacinth
first one was over time with no deaths... I was like ok then
heavy sail
Hit rival on my paladin as well this morning 
lusty marsh
Io wise
lusty marsh
Damn, I'm still 400 off
heavy sail
But you could easily get into most groups being in the 800 range
lusty marsh
Only 856
sick cedar
Hello, i have a question, in the icyveins guide it is told that Haste > Strength, but then it says that we should take the +20 strength food instead of the +30 Haste food, can i have explanation about that? Thanks you 🙂
heavy sail
Continuity error
lusty marsh
Haste is never better than strength.
lofty widget
strength is best, and you should eat the feast over haste food, but not everyone can afford to feast all the time
sick cedar
lusty marsh
Thankfully you never have to choose outside of food and pots
amber herald
str and armor should be at the top
lofty widget
it's wrong, you always wanna take the highest ilvl aka most strength, the secondaries are very very even in power and below strength
lusty marsh
I'd check out the wowhead veesion
amber herald
must be a typo
lusty marsh
Is icyveins updated for sl
sick cedar
Yes
lusty marsh
I know priest section isnt.
sick cedar
Even pin in this channel
lusty marsh
Very sad for my disc alt
heavy sail
Mainstats>Haste>Vers>Crit>Mastery
And socketed gear if you find it can occasionally take precedent depending on stat budget of a similar item
In which case sim it
sick cedar
Mastery is always bad? even in fight where there is only AA?
astral crystal
mastery is by no means bad
sick cedar
Ok
lusty marsh
I live my life by more stat is better than less stat.
sick cedar
SO i will stop read icyveins guide, maybe i dont understand their stat prio, and i will relate on wowhead
lusty marsh
although I've been trying to stack vers lately
signal plover
@sick cedar you should prolly try reading the explanation for the stat priority
The icy veins guide is up to date and correct
sick cedar
Yeah i read it and dont understand it all, thats why i told "i dont understand", because my english is awfull
signal plover
The same person that wrote that guide created the pinned cheatsheet in this channel
heavy sail
The plot thickens
sick cedar
And? i dont blame or critic his work, i just told that i dont understand it, mainly because my english is awfull
signal plover
That doesn't make the guide incorrect.
sick cedar
i said that he is incorrect?
heavy sail
Well the way you explained it to us was lacking the entire context, so we perceived it as incorrect
That’s more the point
sick cedar
NAh sry, my english soo poor, its hard for me to dont seems rude :x
heavy sail
I don’t usually read icy veins content to know what’s on there but nice catch Paw
sweet summit
we love mwahi
lusty marsh
Regardless that numbered list is misleading.
sick cedar
LIke when someone read a mail that u write peacefully but the other perceive it aggresivly
heavy sail
Did he write the icyveins guide? @sweet summit
signal plover
Ok anyway, stat prio is simple,
You prioritize ilvl on pieces that have armor.
You prioritize haste after that.
Then finally, when you're comparing gear* of the same ilvl you follow the priority in the guide
sweet summit
aye
sick cedar
Ok thanks for help and sry if i seems rude, absolutly not my goal, love on you and thanks for help 🙂
sweet summit
big number=good
lusty marsh
Tfw you're only the 73 thousandth best tank in wow.
It's a shame it's necrotic bolster.
I'm in a pushing mood
nocturne marlin
Short question to Sire-Tanking (HC) at P2, when we have to take him to mirror (which adds do we kill)?
sweet summit
all of them
nocturne marlin
first 4 and then only the 2 (not ranged)?
signal plover
first 4 and then only the 2 (not ranged)?
This is correct
nocturne marlin
but there are two times adds coming and seems to skip something they didnt do the ranged (second adds)
signal plover
You don't have to kill 2nd set of ranged adds (although it's doable with decent raid ilvl)
lusty marsh
Does add spawn work differently from normal
Or will I still be praying we hit 40% before 3rd set
lusty marsh
Time to ponder How to tell my raid we need to prune to 20 in prep for mythic.
signal plover
I think I saw folks kill 3rd set very early on in prog and then limp home with P3 hero but it's sketchy
uneven mason
I think I saw folks kill 3rd set very early on in prog and then limp home with P...
somewhat RNG at that point I think, if he ravages
signal plover
P2 is not rly a tight dps check. It's a "can your raid dodge hard to see red circles on the ground and not stack the impale bleed to infinity" check
signal plover
Heroic timing is pretty reliable in P3
vague jetty
It’s not really rocket science to kill the third add set and get him very close to 40 anyways
So doesn’t really matter
uneven mason
still building toward that after having to rebuild ye ole guild
lusty marsh
Aw, I want to see m council
lusty marsh
I'm so glad we swapped to the nik>stav>Frieda order
Kills have been so smooth.
I'd imagine he raids 2 nights 3 hours each minimum to be on mythic
That's what I do and we'd be there if my guild micromanage our dps a bit more.
vague jetty
Yeah I raid 6 hours, you are going to end up soon in the situation where your guild still need gear in earlier bosses but reclearing when you only raid 6 hours leaves very little time for prof
Prog*
That point sucks
modern brook
we're at that point becuase people dont gear their characters
lusty marsh
What we really need is grey parsers to do any amount of self analysis
Tbf they'd probably be green if they didn't die.
But if you are consistently dying that also needs looking at.
uneven mason
I'm so glad we swapped to the nik>stav>Frieda order
I made this swap for my guild and its been buttery smooth
lusty marsh
My raid strategist was worried about the pools for so long we tried every other order.
Nik last was too high a dps check. Stav last was too tight a dps check.
Frieda has almost 0 danger.
Dancing fools spawn location is cancer.
uneven mason
the pools are inconsequential that area is so huge once Stavros is dead and the movement restrictions go away more or less.
even on mythic having to only deal with dark recital
lusty marsh
Dark recital is also a problem with my group.
I don't think we ever come out of one with as many people as we had going in.
With the limit wa
uneven mason
it was for mine as well until I explained it like
"This is a middle school dance, not a night out at Famous Freddies, if you leg hump your partner you're going to be in trouble, be close enough but not touching."
I have everyone line up
signal plover
I'd imagine he raids 2 nights 3 hours each minimum to be on mythic
Good guess
uneven mason
most guilds seem to be 2 nights
I brought up starting a 3rd night (for 9 hours) on my guild and basically was told in no uncertain terms that it wasn't going to happen
signal plover
We do T/TH for primary prog and do about 3 weeks of optional Wednesdays at the start of tiers.
uneven mason
by the same people who want to push for CE
lusty marsh
Optional days are before main days?
uneven mason
I was like "AoTC only it is then!" ¯_(ツ)_/¯
signal plover
You typically don't need 3 nights to get CE (we haven't since ABT and we're mostly casual)
uneven mason
These are people who are coming out of long breaks or just never did CE before though
its going to bea trial to wip them into shape
signal plover
Optional days are before main days?
The optional night is usually a lower difficulty, so normal the first week, heroic the weeks after
lusty marsh
Ah
signal plover
We rly had to scramble our goals a bit this tier with how difficult week 1 heroic was
So we got into mythic a week late.
lusty marsh
We just tacked on the previous difficulty skip to the start of our prog nights since it takes little time.
uneven mason
like I had wipes on a farm boss last night, IDK why, but people kept flubbing mechanics, getting trapped dying to the DoT etc...then we proceed to 1 shot the wing bosses with no deaths
lusty marsh
I like the skip this tier
uneven mason
the inconsistency drives me up the wall
undone jacinth
I was like "AoTC only it is then!" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
We will get CE on 2 night, you don’t need 3
uneven mason
since its not like in HC You have random overlaps to deal with, its the same pacing every pull
Probably not thistier tho
maybe next
uneven mason
I Mean me
like my crew won't hit CE unless there is a lot of cleaning up (and people actually log in consistently)
Got myself a pity weapon though lastnight
undone jacinth
yeah, wouldn’t suggest 3 day to people who are already not committed
uneven mason
flipped my shit when the protadin cotank got his shield
after only being in HC twice
uneven mason
meanwhile I'm around 0/70~ for looting shields
little bead
we're on Sludge for progression
DPS needto clean it up
lots of missed uptime for no reason
lusty marsh
Saaaame
uneven mason
they panic about the quakes
ticks for 600dmg
won't kill you
but freaking out and breaking your chain will
lusty marsh
We wiped at 00.8% last night
uneven mason
had a 5% pull with 3 dead
7% pull with 3 dead
9% Pull with 3 dead
atleast the mage finally went fire
lusty marsh
My chains LOVE to take the opposite path around pulls as their partner and get hit by the knockback and snap their chain.
uneven mason
omfg
watching people move during roar
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
just let it push you
keep DPSing
lusty marsh
I want to get the ranged to just stand fucking still until stomp.
uneven mason
I want to get the ranged to just stand fucking still until stomp.
☝️
lusty marsh
Get pulled in, get roared back together. 0 movement.
lavish thorn
guys hello! may I ask you please, if PvP gear 220 lvl okay for tanking 10-15 keys?
lusty marsh
220 gear is good to push 16-20
uneven mason
most important piece
lavish thorn
well and is kiting a must? during non necrotic weeks
lusty marsh
But I'm only 1500 so 207 pieces for me
lusty marsh
With 220 there should be very few packs you need to kite on in a 15.
I'm 213 and I don't need to kite most packs in 13/14
lavish thorn
struggling to find a party even for 11 as an arms warrior with 215 gear
lusty marsh
But I also run bolster
lavish thorn
and do you prefer haste over crit?
lusty marsh
I prefer ilvl personally, with a focus on verse because of pvp.
lavish thorn
ok. thank you very much! gonna deal with it
lusty marsh
I'm sad there is no mainstat gem
I got a sick 223 belt yesterday with leech and a socket
lavish thorn
well
how do you think
why blizzard disregard warrior inability to push top keys like monk or pala
and DH ofc
*prot warr
uneven mason
why blizzard disregard warrior inability to push top keys like monk or pala
Because it has nothing to do with actual tank balance
it has to do with gimmics and DPS
these are also extreme fringe keys
lavish thorn
okay...
uneven mason
They could unnerf our damage
lusty marsh
We are good tanks jim
uneven mason
which would open up high keys again
lusty marsh
Or make ip a satisfying button to press
uneven mason
I mean, that wouldn't open up high keys for ut
at all
since we're already more durable than the other tanks
we do way less DPS tho
lusty marsh
I didn't realize damage was the only thing keeping us down.
uneven mason
because we have to choose between offense and defense.
undone jacinth
more durable vs auto attacks only
charred ivy
Whats best way to deal with stacks this week?
uneven mason
Damage and ability to hold aggro while running away
uneven mason
Whats best way to deal with stacks this week?
run away
patent osprey
I didn't realize damage was the only thing keeping us down.
It really is only damage thatll hurt us in the long run. As we get more and more haste due the expac going on, our shieldblock uptime will rise from 50% that it currently is to 60-70% which will make us very tanky.
lusty marsh
I still want ip to feel impactful though.
uneven mason
more durable vs auto attacks only
The only tank that beats us in magic mitigation is DHs
patent osprey
but even with the haste scaling, our dps wont be as high
uneven mason
bleeds are what fuck us up
undone jacinth
lmao
undone jacinth
bless
patent osprey
yeah but IP costs rage, holy shield is just always there
sometimes u have no rage to cast ip in a pack 🙂
uneven mason
yeah but IP costs rage, holy shield is just always there
hence the issue, we have to pick, pump DPS or survive
lusty marsh
Ip costs a ton of rage
patent osprey
even while im surviving, since melee attacks also take away IP, pally just better at mitigating magic
🙂
undone jacinth
ur acting like uve got enough rage to sustain IPs lol
uneven mason
If they turned IP into a DPS ability + absorb, we'd be pumpers
undone jacinth
if you play most other tanks you will notice the magic/bleed problem a lot more on your warr
undone jacinth
and you must also notice they are weaker vs magic too seeing as warriors are better than them ?
even though they have tap, ams, ds and vamp
charred ivy
is stone legion and phial of putri good trink combo for prot?
modern brook
its not the scale
charred ivy
blood spattered scale?
amber herald
dabs as dwarf
chilly brook
Idk I feel like bleeds fuck every tank up tbh
And imho magic and bleeds are worse on Monk
undone jacinth
they do and they aren’t good on monk either
he said the only tank that beats warr for magic mitigation is DH tho lol
chilly brook
It really depends on how the magic is taken
DH is undisputed king
If it's a predictable mechanic that happens once every 20-30ish seconds warrior is great
If its constant magic damage not so much
outer solstice
Yeah we suck with dots
uneven mason
Here is my take on it, and it highlights the issues warriors face in higher keys, because to be stronk on magic dmg, we have to pump IP, we also have to know that the dmg is coming, so we can prepare our rage budget to utilize IP regularly. If we're trying to pump DPS we're not using IP thus - we're going to get trucked by magic/DoTs.
outer solstice
But things like the scythe we are king
uneven mason
reflect - don't say it too loud because things have been getting "fun detected" off that list
chilly brook
IP cap is fine
outer solstice
Inevitable was taken off
Too much fun
I think the IP cap is too low, it just gets blown up instantly... Or the duration is too short
uneven mason
duration is certainly fine, because it doesn't last long enough 😛 if you're taking damage
outer solstice
That it's only a low dmg income mitigation
undone jacinth
it’s not to do with trying to pump dps
mental scarab
Give perma SB🥴
undone jacinth
if you’re taking damage and casting IP it’s not sustaining you vs magic as well as most other tanks kit is
outer solstice
*looks in the other direction as if he's not pumping Into Revenge
undone jacinth
because melees are chewing it up as well and u are rage limited
uneven mason
That is a horrible reasoning behind "Warriors are weak vs magic because our magic mitigation ability mitigates all damage" (hint - if you're reducing melee hits or magic by 50% up toX amount, X amount is still mitigated)
undone jacinth
its not a powerful enough tool to where that is relevant
compare it to 30% dr heals on bear, death strike ams on dk, wog holy shield on pala etc
uneven mason
hence why we also have DS, SW etc..all fairly low CDs, so again, if you're blowing rage into rav spam, or dumping all of your rage generating CDs at once, you can't complain warriors are weak vs magic or have low rage budget to deal with magic (through IP) because it does - in the end, come down to we make the choice to mitigate strongly, or do damage.
don't drop AMS into the discussion unless you want to consider SW pops
which again
brings warriors out on top
burs got it good tho
jolly thistle
we are fine from a defensive POV. The packs we’re struggling with are a nightmare for every tank. We need more dmg. Even if we go all out revenge spam, we’re far behind.
undone jacinth
so why is bear better than war
uneven mason
because Bears are better than people
undone jacinth
when it does no damage at all
uneven mason
warriors are behind bears in DPS afaik
undone jacinth
wrong
uneven mason
🙄 Bears are ahead of warriors who are maximizing their defensives
undone jacinth
my 180 pala can do as much as my bear
uneven mason
if warriors pump damage - we're not being as tanky
sand torrent
It's a paladin
uneven mason
your 180 paladin probably would out DPS Nom
sand torrent
Ironfur
undone jacinth
exactly..
sand torrent
Trash and swipe are doing so much dmg
undone jacinth
lmao
lofty thistle
Maul is for druid as slam is for fury war
undone jacinth
idk what ur even linking
uneven mason
can't argue with a dolphin Griff ¯_(ツ)_/¯
sand torrent
Those are dps rankings
chilly brook
undone jacinth
from what though
placid oar
Hopefully blizz improve our damage, sad to see us dealing so much less than even a bear
uneven mason
looks like warcraft logs
undone jacinth
we’re talking m+ so I assume they are m+ runs
uneven mason
Well, M+ would be better for bears to pump in
undone jacinth
ok great so u link a mythic raid boss lmao
uneven mason
since they have better AE tools than warriors
placid oar
Even a higher ilvl geared warrior is dealing less damage than a lower ilvl geared bear based on those pics. Gosh what is happening 😔
uneven mason
🤦♂️ here comes the moving goalposts again...
chilly brook
Can we skip the condescending shit?
undone jacinth
funny how you don’t talk about moving goalposts when we were talking about m+ and u proved me wrong with mythic shriekwing logs
sand torrent
I think if you take the low dmg away warrior is fine
undone jacinth
whatever suits you
uncut hinge
does potion of soul purity work on necrotic?
signal plover
You can if you're dorf
sand torrent
U can
signal plover
Or if you're careful
undone jacinth
you can run away or reroll dwarf !
uncut hinge
dorf?
uncut hinge
yea
strong forum
You perfectly can, just have to dip out a few more times than a kyrian warrior
undone jacinth
necrotic isn’t the bad part of this week sadly
uncut hinge
with my 30% slow from thunder clap
sand torrent
Yea
sand torrent
I'm to scared to pump into rev
signal plover
Tab hamstring kek
placid oar
Sry but looking at the pics above, does that mean warrior tanks deal the least dps? I always thought bear tanks dealt the least
timber lagoon
Bruh leap out the door of shadows
sand torrent
Im standing there pumping in IP like a men
signal plover
Yeah we're pretty behind other tanks in ST dmg atm
sand torrent
But I'm still in the gearing phase
placid oar
Thanks for the information Griff
low kindle
I think we lost a lot of dmg out by using IP for survival instead of revenge
sand torrent
Yea
placid oar
🥺
chilly brook
funny how you don’t talk about moving goalposts when we were talking about m+ an...
Look at the newest pictures
placid oar
I really hope blizz sees that chart and do smth
signal plover
Even if you dump with revenge only
low kindle
which means the higher the key goes, the less dmg warrior tank is going to deal imo
chilly brook
You can go to WCL yourself
undone jacinth
and then I have to go and interrogate them because u apply no actual understanding to anything
sand torrent
Are u playing with revenger in m+?
sweet summit
ravager yeah
undone jacinth
yes and if they are all over geared in 15s running boomkin affinity then what
chilly brook
They still have more damage.....
undone jacinth
dear god
sand torrent
Dude
undone jacinth
not worth it
undone jacinth
I don’t care if I’m wrong I would just like to actually know it by being able to interrogate the information
chilly brook
Literally doesnt matter how much we go into offensive, we're still behind every other tank
I gave you all you need to do that
jolly thistle
this will only get worse if you look at other dungeons, since mists is probably our best one since it’s almost only physical/blockable dmg
outer solstice
We beat DKs
undone jacinth
this has happened before where I have to spend time showing him his stupid logs show him the opposite of what he’s saying
outer solstice
^^
sand torrent
But who plays blood do right haha
chilly brook
Smh
subtle island
is inscrutable quantum device any good for tank?
undone jacinth
twice from memory but I’m sure there’s more
u understand information at a surface level and that’s it
chilly brook
We beat DKs
True but barely
uneven mason
yeah DKs in sad spot
sweet summit
ok thats enough take it to dms i cba
subtle island
IQD anyone?
sweet summit
not a fan
chilly brook
IQD anyone?
What Erga said
subtle island
220 IQD vs 213 hands, both upgrade from 200
undone jacinth
DKs in a bad spot yet they’ve run higher keys than Prot warrs have
chilly brook
yeah DKs in sad spot
They're still better than us in single target afaik
undone jacinth
must be because they did more damage
lofty widget
220 IQD vs 213 hands, both upgrade from 200
hands, iqd is mediocre at best
chilly brook
lofty widget
the 3 min cd alone is abysmal
chilly brook
Its not really the CD
uneven mason
They're still better than us in single target afaik
I Mean tanking in general, low damage, highest External healing required
chilly brook
Its just not great in raid specifically because it's so difficult to get the effect you're looking for
jolly thistle
I’m a simple man. I want my trinkets to either do dmg, give me a buff or shield when I press them. Not some random stuff depending on other people
uneven mason
IQD "The Trap"
jagged pier
time to pug some keys this week wish me luck
patent osprey
Gl friendo
patent osprey
i didnt really find a dungeon this week that is super super bad. I thought PF was gonna be bad, but there was a lot of time just got natural resets when she spawned adds
undone jacinth
DOS imo
strong forum
Necrotic isn't as bad as it sounds except maybe big pull dungeons
patent osprey
I even did a Theater of pain 15 where i didnt press shield block for 60% of the dungeon
and it was fine
timber root
Hi there 🙂
timber root
What's up ?
timber root
Can I ask you a question ?
undone jacinth
go for it
jagged pier
shoot
timber root
I'm looking for a tank class to play
timber root
I never tanked
I'm new to this game since the beggining of SL
And i'm playing fire mage
sand torrent
Druid
strong forum
Pwar is one of the harder ones to get into, especially if you're entirely new to the game
sand torrent
Prot warrior
outer solstice
220 IQD vs 213 hands, both upgrade from 200
IQD can also just heal a friendly, it's a trap
Use it if you want to gamble on logs and make sure to get a PI... But for general tanking I'd say it's a no
timber root
The thing is that I don't like the other tank classes x)
strong forum
Not recommended for beginners unless you absolutely want to
undone jacinth
Definitely pick the one that looks the most fun and go from there
strong forum
Yeah
timber root
And I wanted to know if war is playable
strong forum
Absolutely
undone jacinth
yes it is
timber root
In +15 for example
strong forum
Easily
undone jacinth
Definitely
strong forum
I barely take damage in +15s
jagged pier
same
outer solstice
Tanked a 16 PF last week without knowing the route (guildies forced me)
timber root
Everybody told me "Oh don't play it, it's very trash in MM+ you can't reach the +10"
undone jacinth
they just about have enough damage to time them 😉
strong forum
Everybody told me "Oh don't play it, it's very trash in MM+ you can't reach the ...
That's just bad people talking about stuff they have no clue about
modern brook
^
outer solstice
^
lofty widget
^
jagged pier
^
timber root
So thanks for the answer guys 🙂
undone jacinth
patent osprey
timber root
I'm going to create my character right now >:)
chilly brook
Been doing 13s or higher since like week 3
strong forum
Any person that actually has more than 3 braincells knows that every single spec can do 15s
chilly brook
Well probably week 4
strong forum
Bring the player, not the class
jagged pier
I'm about to do a 14 right now
strong forum
Been doing 14s since week1 
chilly brook
Been doing 14s since week1 <:deswind:533073964096946176>
14s didnt exist week 1 dummy
jagged pier
okay Nome no need to wip out the EPEEN
undone jacinth
I’m convinced arcane mage cannot complete 15s but that’s only because they don’t seem to have arms or eyes
strong forum
I'M WHIPPING IT
patent osprey
Show us da way nom 😄
strong forum
outer solstice
Arcane is quite fun in terms of burst
undone jacinth
I’ve played with two and if you combined their dps and multiplied it by your age they would be a valuable addition to my +15 key team
but that’s that alt key life
a whole different world
strong forum
If you ain't living that arcane explosion life, idk what you're doing tbh
modern brook
playing fire
undone jacinth
one of them had 0 casts of arcane explosion in a mists +7
I never figured out why
modern brook
I never figured out why
u dont use it in a patchwerk sim so it must be bad
undone jacinth
well the other one was in plaguefall and didn’t have time warp on their ‘panel’, which I’m sure is used in patchwork sims!
modern brook
well the other one was in plaguefall and didn’t have time warp on their ‘panel’,...
Smh dont call for lust if you want warp dolphin
are you even a gamer?
undone jacinth
dang you right
modern brook
also; LOL at panel
outer solstice
well the other one was in plaguefall and didn’t have time warp on their ‘panel’,...
Well, if the shaman hits it, it's more DPS, ain't that true?
modern brook
as someone who has a combined 45 minutes on both classesI'm fairly sure they're both off the gcd
undone jacinth
if only there was a shaman it’d be so true
lavish thorn
I’m convinced arcane mage cannot complete 15s but that’s only because they don’t...
well a week or two and u will do it
undone jacinth
I asked him to sheep a plagueborer afterwards and he took literally 1min to do it, so I asked him what spells he does have on his bar
he said ‘damage ones’
undone jacinth
overall dps: 1.9k in a plaguefall +8 - he must have put the wrong ones on
modern brook
like if you never bring it up
you can assume he's like changing a diaper or something at the same time sa playing
undone jacinth
that’s true but sometimes I like the insight
modern brook
and you canb e like "damn i couldnt do that props to him for hittin 1.9k on full time father spec"
undone jacinth
like my friend who uses mouse 1 in first person shooters as move forward instead of shoot lmao
modern brook
as soon as u ask you just get assaulted by things like "panel"
undone jacinth
it’s nice to see the diversity in the world
modern brook
like my friend who uses mouse 1 in first person shooters as move forward instead...
mouse 2 to jump is old scool
Mouse 1 to move is weird
patent osprey
oof! Non meta classes need to stick togeather guys! we don't bash each other 😛
lavish thorn
btw guys how long season 1 gonna last? like until April? do seasons normally take aprx 5 months?
undone jacinth
I got him through the key, I consider that sufficiently sticking together
modern brook
undone jacinth
are they really that long, jeez
modern brook
IDK thats why i googled it :^)
undone jacinth
that’s a lotta time
modern brook
makes sense tbh
undone jacinth
4 patches 2 years yeah
modern brook
M+ season is 2 rotations on every affix
~14 weeks of affix is ~3 months
x2 is 6
ish
solemn magnet
Blizzconline isn't till Feb when they gonna spoiler content, so it'll be at least march
lavish thorn
that's copied
undone jacinth
yea was just kidding bro
still if patch was 2 months away I’d be worried about CE!
solemn magnet
Chances are it's going to be nothing but Diablo immortal and naxx spoilers, so I could see April release too
astral crystal
why naxx?
chilly brook
I mean diablo 2
solemn magnet
Cuz thats probably the next logical raid
signal plover
?
undone jacinth
is immortal the mobile one
astral crystal
didnt naxx already come out?
undone jacinth
I thought there was a proper Diablo coming
signal plover
Do you mean maldraxxus?
chilly brook
Iirc VV is being put on the diablo 2 project and removed the guys who were responsible for WC3 reforged
solemn magnet
Yeah
astral crystal
oh lol
solemn magnet
The maldraxxus raid naxx 3.0
undone jacinth
new naxx
signal plover
Ya in that case I'd agree
uneven mason
I thought there was a proper Diablo coming
Yeah diablo 4, then you have diablo immortal which is basically "Monster Crush Saga"
uneven mason
i guess
signal plover
It's not Naxx, Naxx is still over northerns afaik, but I guess they could big recycle lol
uneven mason
was kinda "meh" compared to D2 and D3 trailers
undone jacinth
the trailer with the black priest guy? That was amazing
solemn magnet
If the last boss is kelthuzad idc what you call it. It's naxx
uneven mason
"Black Priest Guy"
You mean Tyrael - Archangel of Justice?
chilly brook
That wasn't him tho
uneven mason
ory ou referring to D4 trailer
uneven mason
but yeah, D3 went "Dragon Ball Super" a bit
that is, the levels of power attainable became so obscene that it crossed into the realm of pointless
modern brook
Chances are it's going to be nothing but Diablo immortal and naxx spoilers, so I...
i think im the only person in the world whos excited for diablo immortal
uneven mason
THIS DUDE HAS A PHONE
modern brook
Lowkey
memes aside
mobile games are the future and disagreeing makes you a boomer
uneven mason
its 100% a cash grab by activision
modern brook
just a straight fact
uneven mason
When my phone can run Cyberpunk 2077 on a 4k sceen I'll agree with you.
solemn magnet
Yeah, ima hard disagree on the phone game thing.
solemn magnet
Even when your phone can run it, the way you interact with your phone as a human being is suboptimal for gaming.
uneven mason
nintendo dropped them like they were a sock filled with shit
solemn magnet
Are you going to use a super imposed dpad that blocks 1/3 of your screen so you can play a game on your phone?
Thats boomer shit
modern brook
nah boomer shit is seeing what exists and not what could be
uneven mason
I mean....what nintendo did was make home video games affordable
undone jacinth
mobile games suck dude
uneven mason
but people have 0 fucks to give
about affordable now
since the phone platform of choice costs more than most of the cars I've ever owned
modern brook
smh
uneven mason
and has the computing power of a nose hair
undone jacinth
I tried to enjoy them but the quality isn’t there yet
modern brook
ok boomers
undone jacinth
they also need to think of a controller that works as a phone attachment
using your actual phone is cringe
uneven mason
Didn't you know, Iphone XXVIII will be able to becontrolled by an implant in your nose
modern brook
honestly thats too much innovation for an apple product
solemn magnet
That would be cool, but I'll be dead before that happens
undone jacinth
I’d be up for brain implant
I used to work on tech that worked based on your brain function
modern brook
does the nose even have muscles?
im trying to move just my nose rn
i cant do it witohut pinching my cheeks and stuff
deft bridge
How hard is it to raid lead while tanking as prot? hc only
undone jacinth
hold on chacha got more important things to solve here
deft bridge
brain implants?
undone jacinth
nose implants
undone jacinth
get it right
deft bridge
damn egyptians
undone jacinth
lol
deft bridge
getting the brain through the nose
solemn magnet
We gotta figure out how to make AR tracking scale to the general public first. You can raid lead in 25years
uneven mason
How hard is it to raid lead while tanking as prot? hc only
Its not, most tank swaps are simple
undone jacinth
the answer to your q is raid tanking and leading is the easiest in my opinion
uneven mason
the hardest thing I've run into so far is killing my melee with charge on Sludgefist because my co tank is a slug
deft bridge
the hardest thing I've run into so far is killing my melee with charge on Sludge...
you mean dk?
ah no that's wheelchair
sand torrent
Play priest
undone jacinth
the only downside is you don’t get a good understanding of what is really hard for the dps players but you can still mostly tell
sand torrent
Just grip that fool through the charge
undone jacinth
paladin divine steed being on gcd lmao
uneven mason
right
undone jacinth
good one blizz
uneven mason
favorite was when he got nailed by the stomp and sent flying
took like...15seconds to cross the entire room back to me
15 seconds solo tanking on Sludgefist, healers are like "whys you getting pounded??"
was tempted to give them a hug
so I'd stop getting pounded
uneven mason
but nah, raidleading isn't bad as a prot warrior
raidleading as anything isn't hard
it just comes down to, how well do you have your abilities/encounters down to muscle memory.
undone jacinth
raid leading as melee dps is very toxic if you want to do real damage
uneven mason
again
rotation being in muscle memory
is whats important
I mean thats important if ou want to be a top parser anyway.
undone jacinth
muscle memory rotation applies to probably like DH and that’s it
even just ur camera position and stuff is horrible as melee
usually got the whole ranged crew behind you
I did it last tier and I was not a happy boy
modern brook
I learned about the setting that stops the camera readjustment when moving
languid light
Any tips on talents for doing Torghast?
modern brook
best thing i ever did formyself
undone jacinth
Any tips on talents for doing Torghast?
anything you want, get the execute power and go from there
modern brook
^
undone jacinth
would recommend double charge though
modern brook
and bounding
uneven mason
Any tips on talents for doing Torghast?
we're tanky enough, focus on damage
languid light
What about talents? Im running the dungeon ones.
uneven mason
AM and Ravager
signal plover
WM also decent
languid light
Nice, thanks.
uneven mason
yeah Torghast is one of the few places that WM is good.
paper relic
Is back or chest better for the wall legendary?
undone jacinth
u mean shoulders don’t you bro
paper relic
Apologies, I miss read the text
modern brook
I'll forgive you this time
uneven mason
I'll forgive you this time
BS, you'll bring it up at an inconvenient time later.
fickle cove
As a fury warrior wanting to roll protection every now and and then, what covenant should I choose?
undone jacinth
whatever is your favourite
uneven mason
you're raiding as fury?
or doing M+
Kyrian will give you the best bang for your buck in both specs, NF is really close, but fury really suffers in ST if not Venthyr
but any will do if you're not doing mega cheese high keys
but for necrolord
that won't do
modern brook
BS, you'll bring it up at an inconvenient time later.
😏
fickle cove
I’m doing m+ as fury and prot for raids
chilly brook
I’m doing m+ as fury and prot for raids
Prolly kyrian then
uneven mason
or NF
narrow sparrow
I’m doing m+ as fury and prot for raids
Doing the same and I’m Kyrian
rotund halo
how does Shattering work on Sun king, will it remove the shield if timed right, or is it just a nice chunk of damage for us?
rotund halo
so kind of a waste to try to have it done by dps due to cast?
undone jacinth
not sure what u mean but warriors should be shattering throw on the shield
does a lot of dmg
rotund halo
regardless of spec
undone jacinth
yeah because u can time it to land right as the shield goes up, so you’re barely even losing a global
rotund halo
gotcha, thank you
undone jacinth
dmg before the shield not as important
ocean bloom
How much dmg is it roughly?
uneven mason
500% what the tooltip says
ocean bloom
Does that scale with avatar/booming
uneven mason
big mean
ocean bloom
Damn being a new warrior lol
ocean bloom
Is it a lot less on tank?
lofty widget
10-15k as tank
ocean bloom
Still sizeable dmg
undone jacinth
it’d similar dmg for tank
there’s a fair bit of variance based on how you line up avatar, demo etc
true wind
hello. I have a little Question.
yesterday i saw here to not play with UF and AM. Even if one has Thunderlord? Since more Claps would result in more Demoshouts -> more Rage (Booming Voice).
and, is it kinda okay if i really dislike devastator and got Warmachine instead for M+? It's not like i'm progressing on high keys or something.
uneven mason
TC is a very low power button, Ravager will lead to better rage and threat generation, since you're unlikely to be able to make appropriate use of the additional DS uptime in most situations.
That being said, if you're not pushing higher keys you could run any talents you wanted.
But basically TC is a weak button - using it more often creates an opportunity cost in lost revenges
true wind
true. i try to optimize a little bit in terms of "both feel good to play" which is not the case for devastator (for me).
i just think demoshout would be really powerfull, i use it a lot with Thunderlord. (m+ aswell). But i try some runs with Ravager and Bolster ofc to get into it.
uneven mason
Ravager is our biggest AE treat grinder
lots of rage and does solid damage and only costs 1 GCD.
(its the GCD thats important)
true wind
jes i can see that. WEll i will try it out a few times. The TC is still good for lowering the CD on DS even without UF
uneven mason
yup
true wind
but clap i think is a great thingy. 5 Rage, slow and nice damage.. =/
welp... thanks a lot guys. i will try ravager / bolster out to get into it 🙂
uneven mason
I mean, the slow and 5 rage part
the damage
the damage isn't there
TC hits as hard as an auto attack
without devastator
patent osprey
Remember, clap gives u rage regardless if you hit something or not
so great for when your kiting 😉
clap on cd while kiting
silk edge
to sim for m+ its patchwerk 5 targets 3 min yea ?
undone jacinth
I do lots of sims but a decent one would be 5 target 1min no buffs
patent osprey
decanter blows generally
undone jacinth
it’s decent dps in aoe I think but I’ve never liked it
I want the pvp trink but I’d really love to continue not pvping
last mason
has anyone else been questioning dratnos routes lately
undone jacinth
he tries his best to accommodate everyone, I always just made my own tbh as they are never gonna be perfect
one benefit to using them is that they are the route most people will be familiar with generally
last mason
im thinking his halls with skips route in particular
is going into 2nd boss with no lust or pride a good idea in pugs
patent osprey
^Nope it is not
lofty widget
youd wnt both on second boss tbh
undone jacinth
I never go without pride, it’s so easy to get pride as well
last mason
ya see
last mason
i feel like first boss is easy with pugs until its suddently not bc u look around and theres puddles everywhere except where they should be
undone jacinth
yea exactly
I like to minimise that
but sometimes lust isn’t up anyway due to timer
the 60% pride on to Halkias is awkward but I have a decent route for it
I also think they changed the second boss and fixed his adds casting too early which made it a bit better
uneven mason
i feel like first boss is easy with pugs until its suddently not bc u look aroun...
My favorite is the healer who tries to escape from beams by running outside the circle
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
last mason
well my favorite is when the zuzgug brain ranged is standing behind u against a wall when you turn to bait smash in a a nice area then flames when they get oneshot
"???"
uneven mason
mmhmm
last mason
or they just turret then spam ??? when they get trapped
uneven mason
an oldie but a goodie
The mongoloids who go "WTF TANK" from standing in cleave. I always put a marker on my head for dungeons and somehow people seem to stand on me, either to drop their crap or to eat the cleave.
undone jacinth
I had dps on 3rd boss spires who thought you had to stack on tank for entire fight to drop the puddles
I let them learn the hard way lol
sick sentinel
UNINSTALL GAME TANK
undone jacinth
‘Got aggro’
sick sentinel
never tank again
undone jacinth
no my friend
uneven mason
last mason
the best one imo is the big spiky guys in pf
with their frontal
someone always dies
to the most obvious telegraphed fucking frontal
then flames my positioning
undone jacinth
with the big sticky beams yeah
uneven mason
Best is when you've got the trash at 2nd boss rounded up behind tree and they stand there and take it to the face, just in time to get launched into the boss
last mason
like theres a 330 degree space safe zone, and u chose the predetermined 30 degrees where its not safe
my man
uneven mason
Altho the first time in ToP the rancid gasbags caught me by surprise
"IT COMES OUT BOTH ENDS!"
last mason
or slighly different bbut slimeclaw shenanigans
maiden ravine
Well, GAS BAG
uneven mason
course I was talking to my group about it and the wife is like "The dogs downstairs what are you calling a gasbag?"
last mason
like squad i literally asked before the dungeon for specific cc help for the trash that literally oneshots u with overkill
and its just crickets
"shit tank rotate cds bbetter"
undone jacinth
when nobody interrupts hail of flachettes in motherlode 😖
last mason
everybbody simultaenously stuns the first cast
then nobody has anything after that hahahaha
uneven mason
TFW they don't interrupt the mercs in motherlode
"engineering"
/kick
We'll 4 man this
last mason
i miss freehold tbh
undone jacinth
do i take anger management or Bolster now for m+ ?
bolster
uneven mason
do i take anger management or Bolster now for m+ ?
"Yes"
undone jacinth
unless you're just cheesing lower keys
uneven mason
You can do either
sand torrent
and Unstoppable Force or Ravanger
uneven mason
bolster is better for high keys
undone jacinth
ravager
sand torrent
because wowhead is telling me to take anger and unstoppable force
sick sentinel
oh, god damnit