Venthyr is fine, it’s suboptimal, but you don’t have to switch
#protection
heavy sail
errant oriole
i mean my renown is only 10 so far lol
eager phoenix
its pretty convenient beign venthyr for hoa/sd. not sure how many dps/healers actually go venthyr if they are pve focused
heavy sail
Not many
eager phoenix
maybe havoc or a spriest. not exactly meta lads on the block 🙂
undone jacinth
shaman is the most likely candidate
heavy sail
Disc priests will almost always be venthyr also
eager phoenix
yeah
as always it depends what youre doing in the game. pugging/premade, pvping or not, dpsing alongside tanking or not. actually pushing rank/keys or just hovering around some upper mid tier content.
solemn magnet
I switched to kyrian from venth. I'd never go back. Spear feels so good.
I am debating race changing vulpera, tho
sweet summit
signal plover
Careful saying that around here, nom has a whole vulpera army goin
visual drift
undone jacinth
well you can see how many stats you’re getting for the ilvl
18 secondary 9 steam for 10 ilvl
making a socket worth about 7 ilvl or so
I would pretty much always take the extra stats unless I was in the haste dumpster
deft bridge
RL just made a 30 line copypasta explaining how to tank
"Don't die"
"You shouldn't need defensives"
"Do not turn your back on boss"
"Use your own defensives"
ionic fern
"You shouldn't need defensives"
Wait what
deft bridge
(healer defensives)
ionic fern
Yes...i understood. And it's still...wait what
deft bridge
tbh if you require healing on hc sludgefist you're a loser
deft bridge
how does your brain fit in your skull
strong forum
Healer defensives are there to be used.
90% of the time a healer won't use his external CD on anyone
Maybe more
Unless he's big brain
Like wtf
Most of all external CDs almost exclusively used on tanks in every raid guild
Unless it's a very specific use
undone jacinth
it sounds like he’s just raging because someone is dying due to basics
heavy sail
You ever have a disc priest that holds onto Pain Suppression so hard that they just end up never using it.
That’s a vibe
deft bridge
she says we should only need cds for certain mechanics
but like
we're taking damage all the time
undone jacinth
that is kinda true
you should use them when you know your stuff is lining up badly or something bad is about to happen not really as a crutch
signal plover
Frowning on use of externals for tanks is not a productive attitude. At the same time, the tanks should use them efficiently to cover gaps in mitigation or high spikes in dmg.
There's a reason healer externals are relatively short CDs
undone jacinth
it sounds like a reaction to tanks taking excessive damage - context matters
signal plover
You can't assume anything
signal plover
???
The point is, externals are there to be used, tanks should track them and be responsible for their uses unless there's other situations the CDs are assigned to.
Which the raid lead can dictate and then everyone plays around it
undone jacinth
for sure
gaunt dawn
idk if u wanna PSA this but
If you're off-tank on Sludgefist, you will get 0x Revenge procs.
🙂
deft bridge
yeah that's why im on tank all the time >:)
gaunt dawn
Giant Fists does not trigger it
undone jacinth
think prots will be MT for rage anyway
signal plover
Does GF trigger EB for monks yet?
gaunt dawn
Being main tank means that your co-tank doesnt get/consume their stuff either
heavy sail
Unless you have a brew
gaunt dawn
and Revenge is the lowest prio one
signal plover
Yeh
undone jacinth
u get eb stacks
deft bridge
any problems with dh?
undone jacinth
I checked in logs
heavy sail
^
gaunt dawn
nop
heavy sail
Nope
gaunt dawn
when you dodge, its a natural dodge
signal plover
And no rfdt from GF either yeah?
heavy sail
Hence why brew should always main tank sludge
undone jacinth
tbh haven’t seen a brew in forever
gaunt dawn
Druid can swap to survival of the fittest
undone jacinth
yea
gaunt dawn
Paladin gets 0x Grand Crusader procs from parry 😦
heavy sail
One shotterino
gaunt dawn
Actually hits less than Inerva
undone jacinth
hm
heavy sail
Sludge was slamming our BDKs ass on our first run through heroic
signal plover
DoTs r poopoo
heavy sail
Like not a legit one shot but pretty close
heavy sail
Sludge is pretty comfy for Prot warrior though
undone jacinth
yea that’s not their issue
heavy sail
heavy sail
Brewmaster handles it pretty well too
Stagger helping smooth out the big damage spikes
heavy sail
My only death tanking sludgefist as BrM was because I am handicapped and got ran over doing the pillars
undone jacinth
on mythic?
heavy sail
Oh no not mythic
heavy sail
I haven’t even tried mythic yet
undone jacinth
and nobody believes you
like when I got hit by pollen in mists when I was in narnia xd
some y axis bs
strong forum
Fetid once yeeted me under the map
undone jacinth
I remember my old guilds DK telling me about how it’s better to stand at the pillar and wait for the boss to charge because of ‘damage profiles’ lmao
heavy sail
Don’t you love mechanics with an awkward radius behind the target that is invisible
Those are the best
undone jacinth
after killing me by snapping the chain
sick sentinel
"You shouldn't need defensives"
loll
heavy sail
I hope I get CE this tier but there’s not a whole lot of interest in my circle.
Kinda sucks
Idk how you guys do it
undone jacinth
join a guild?
heavy sail
I’m in one, they just don’t push content
undone jacinth
join a better one 😝
sick sentinel
what's CE ?
heavy sail
People get frustrated and quit when something takes like 80+ pulls
sick sentinel
oh right, yeah i never worry about aotc/ce
undone jacinth
yes CE requires actual commitment to a decent level and you need to be in a group with people who have it not just random mates
undone jacinth
my mates join my guilds and I m+ with them, they have insane parses but they always flake off
heavy sail
Just dudes with massive ego and no experience
undone jacinth
nah
it has to be the opposite really
you need quiet dedicated types haha
leaders can be whatever but normally if there’s ever egos involved things are gonna end badly
mainly because you need an environment where your players want to log in... attendance is more important than anything
deft bridge
i feel like leaving this guild after AoTC
deft bridge
And every guild advertising themselves as CE in my experience, is a shit show
honestly, i dont even feel liike trying for that anymore
undone jacinth
ah missed the ‘advertising’ bit
sick sentinel
i got carried through uh, i forget but its the water place 8.1 8.2
undone jacinth
real progress is the best metric
sick sentinel
EP
undone jacinth
eternal palace
heavy sail
Which people rarely actually have
Considering CE Raiders is a small population of WoW players
undone jacinth
I don’t mean CE necessarily
sick sentinel
ep i got carried through AOTC and the achievement mount, literally the greatest raiding achievement and i was carried through, lmao
undone jacinth
a guild that’s got at least a few kills by now should be able to get CE over the course of the whole tier
sick sentinel
didnt pay a dime was a dead pop server wanted warrior for AP shout
undone jacinth
and generally the more they have right now the better they will be to join
heavy sail
I think my guild definitely could get CE, I just think everyone in it is wary of the idea because of the time investment and mental space it occupies
Like most of my mates are 30+ with kids
heavy sail
And you’re doing mythic?
undone jacinth
yea
heavy sail
Damn
sick sentinel
another reason i never paid for the boost is because i wouldnt want to pay until after i got the run finished or my bullshit. you don't pay for your meal before you'd had it at a restaurant
heavy sail
How many bosses have you guys downed?
We did shriekwing for shits and giggles but that’s it
sick sentinel
and the "oh just don't loot it right now" nyalotha drama last year
heavy sail
5/10 mythic with only 2 raid nights is exceptional man
deft bridge
how much harder does it feel, from a tank perspective?
heavy sail
I don’t think that’s the norm lmao
sick sentinel
i don't actually run with my guild but they say they are 10H/1M top 2000 guilds apparently
undone jacinth
I mainly dps in raid but the few bosses I’ve off tanked are pretty similar tbh
quaint dagger
Okay, not a new tank but new warrior tank, seems like I am facing up hill challenge. People say give up on it, any tip? I am completely fresh and YouTube i limited for help.
heavy sail
Don’t give up on it, not an uphill battle
deft bridge
raid or mythic+?
sick sentinel
are you trying to tank for raids, or m+?
undone jacinth
ye we are making decent prog but the players aren’t like the worlds best or anything, that’s kinda my point is you can make good prog with just commitment and working together
even on small time
quaint dagger
I like it so far but trying to make sure set up right, Just dinged 60, going to start dungeons soon.
quaint dagger
So my Pally tank I am doing M+
sick sentinel
it's a bit of a weird feeling to play prot warrior but you will absolutely know when you are doing it right or wrong
deft bridge
it's a bit of a weird feeling to play prot warrior but you will absolutely know ...
i always love to be the last person to die and for everyone to go "TANNK???"
signal plover
2nights/6hours is what most mid-late tier CE guilds are. I'm curious if we will have enough time to get it since sludge/slg/denathrius all look like 100-200 pull bosses atm.
Tier nerfs should be around the corner in Feb tho.
heavy sail
Tanking is easy as fuck.
quaint dagger
Want to make sure on the right skills, cov, rotation, I get I will feel it out
Thanks for advice in advance
undone jacinth
the only fight I’m worried about is slg
signal plover
Want to make sure on the right skills, cov, rotation, I get I will feel it out
Start with the icy veins guide and go from there
undone jacinth
I just don’t wanna do it
quaint dagger
Okay will do
heavy sail
@undone jacinth ive heard mythic SLG is a beast
signal plover
Slg shouldda just been dumped.
undone jacinth
it looks horrible 😦
signal plover
The spell que looks like a shitshow
undone jacinth
I really hate add fights
heavy sail
Mythic darkvein makes my soul hurt as well
undone jacinth
they are so stressful as feral as well
heavy sail
Just peeping the mechanics
signal plover
M darkvein is all about DPS burn and immunity cheese
undone jacinth
we actually cleared her super quick
undone jacinth
We had 14 wipes I think
heavy sail
Pretty solid
heavy sail
Pretty sure we wiped 14+ times on heroic darkvein
Funnily enough I think that was our hardest boss during prog
heavy sail
It’s a rough DPS check
undone jacinth
think hc sludge was probably our worst just because of ranged people killing each other and the bug with the boss meleeing random people he gripped
signal plover
I actually think we one shot her on heroic and everyone was like...uhhhh...ok
undone jacinth
big slammers
signal plover
And then denathrius took us like 50 pulls
undone jacinth
that fight was fun to learn
signal plover
Squeezin dat p3 timer like week2 of heroic
I'm rly looking forward to m denathrius tbh
undone jacinth
hell yeah
signal plover
Very solid setting and theme
sick sentinel
@quaint dagger if you have any questions don't be shy to ask
theres normally someone online here
undone jacinth
Prot warr is reasonably similar to pala 😋
build resource, press shield button, press DR
then things get a bit crazy
glacial skiff
Is the tank trinket from sun king good? I saw the bis list but think that would be up there would it not?
undone jacinth
it’s great if you’re at risk of dying
signal plover
Except shield block isn't in our top 3 dmg done abilities kek
glacial skiff
So m+ then lol. Got it
undone jacinth
and actually protects us
signal plover
Fair lol
undone jacinth
wish font of power was still a thing
lusty marsh
sand torrent
hello the race for prot are still what ever i feel looks amazing right ?
silent grove
Yes
sand torrent
sweet
silent grove
Nothing is more important than looking cool
sand torrent
i will look like a ugly cow now
wheat sleet
based
signal plover
Run away before the furries come in here with their recruitment tactics
silent grove
Rain furrest 2021 here we come
deft bridge
troll prot warrior bebe
undone jacinth
panda master race
deft bridge
is it reasonable to demand that i pug all +15 before doing mythics as tank?
like
literally no aid from other members
blissful pebble
Anyone know if this Spires Kin-Tara cheese still works on live? https://youtu.be/cuD4RhI7Obs?t=17593
undone jacinth
is it reasonable to demand that i pug all +15 before doing mythics as tank?
??
obviously not but what’s the context
strong forum
is it reasonable to demand that i pug all +15 before doing mythics as tank?
Not a reasonable demand no
undone jacinth
Anyone know if this Spires Kin-Tara cheese still works on live? https://youtu.be...
it did a couple days ago
undone jacinth
ye
deft bridge
i, as a tank
should be insta invited to keys
that is
the stupidest thing
i've ever heard
just because im invited to keys doesn't mean the comp, or the players are good
ffs
undone jacinth
what’s going on
undone jacinth
feel like half the story is missing
deft bridge
i don't know!
i never had any beef with rl
but she tells me to:
- re roll to a monk
- do +15 all pugs
- gives me obvious advice
- literally the only fight i have trouble with i get benched in 5 tries
dusty grotto
they dont like you, find a new guild
undone jacinth
if you’re playing bad then focus on that, if all that stuff is actually out of the blue then leave the guild
sick sentinel
even if you do all of that, they will still find a reason not to invite you
dusty grotto
^
sick sentinel
that is the truth
blissful pebble
Stay in guild make applications elsewhere leave when it suits you.
charred ivy
what trinkets are nice for protection, both for dpa and survival
sick sentinel
i was in a guild just like that same thing happened.
undone jacinth
just need more context on why the chat is happening in the first place
sick sentinel
so if you see your GM tell him i said fuck you
deft bridge
like
i know im not perfect
and i was fucking up stone legion yesterday that's true
but i am constantly trying to improve
but it feels like the tanks (not just me) are being put to unreasonable demands
undone jacinth
without knowing, it sounds like they are mad at your performance and just making up whatever to try and get you to be better basically because they are a bit clueless
if it’s just heat of the moment stuff then you need to try and focus on the real issues and if they are being serious then I wouldn’t be staying anywhere near that guild
strong forum
^
Or they are too pussy to fail your trial and just want to avoid you, if it's baseless accusations that is
If its based on actual performance then.. Yeh they just suck at helping you
deft bridge
i mean that's what bothers me the most, i don't feel like they want me to learn, just to show up and be perfect from the start
sick sentinel
sometimes you just have to keep failing till it all clicks
first time i ran mists it didnt click only i could interupt the patty cake
sterile moss
Lol first time I ran mists I wondered why all the dps were being useless with patty cake interrupts
sick sentinel
yeah i was yelling at them to do it
undone jacinth
Well we saw a guy in here not casting shield block on sludge fist... some things you can know 😉
chrome osprey
Lol I didn’t run dungeons really
deft bridge
to block sludgefist better
chrome osprey
Got to level, anima’d to ilvl then castle Matheus
deft bridge
and wanted to see if someone could see my log and check out how i did this time
chrome osprey
Matheus fuck off auto correct - Nathria
undone jacinth
You can post ur logs
uneven mason
mroe SW
you should have 5ish SW casts in there
And if you're looking to boost your survivability, move half of your revenges into IP 😛
lyric lance
is there a master list somewhere of spells in m+/nathria that can be spell reflected?
deft bridge
you should have 5ish SW casts in there
that's true
deft bridge
i just didn't know where to fit them
uneven mason
any time besides when he's going to hit a pilalr
because you're always getting beat on in that fight.
deft bridge
Even if i already have sb up?
lyric lance
ty
deft bridge
i try to use it when it goes down
uneven mason
reduced damage is reduced damage
you can yeah fit it into SB gaps
but you wen a longass time without using it atall
unless you had horrible SS resets
deft bridge
didn't feel like that no
i mostly get 2 the following sb use:
2 sb at once
1 sb recharges by the end of those
and then the boss is ready for the stomp* so i don't really see where it'd fit
maybe if i used sb more during the stun phase for dmg?
uneven mason
takes 1 min for the boss to be ready for a charge
no don't burn a SB charge for DPS unless you're going to cap on charges tbh. even if some of us do that 🙄
chilly brook
I would never use a shield block charge for dps intentionally tbh
Its not really worth
ionic fern
I'm weird, i do it all the time. 😂
signal plover
I would never use a shield block charge for dps intentionally tbh
Coward
chilly brook
deft bridge
should i ask a spriest to power infuse me?
silent grove
At best 3 slams per uptime
chilly brook
Its just not worth
ionic fern
🤔
silent grove
On trash you could sb/sb/last stand/sb
sweet summit
PI on a warrior is bad
chilly brook
But even then
sweet summit
change my mind
ionic fern
If you don't need the defensive part of SB then i see no reason not to use it for damage boost.
chilly brook
You dont even need it
chilly brook
If you don't need the defensive part of SB then i see no reason not to use it fo...
Well the topic of conversation was specifically sludge
If it's like shriek
Where you have an extended period where you might not be tanking sure I guess
signal plover
@chilly brook muahahah .6 difference justified
signal plover
(Iz memes)
deft bridge
you get liiike 1 free cast during stun phase
signal plover
Tbf my heroic denathrius is hella weak only like 92 or sumthin
chilly brook
Then again I guess since I'm tanning him the whole time I'm benefitting anyways
undone jacinth
don’t you need the pillar time to get sb refreshes anyways
chilly brook
Tbf my heroic denathrius is hella weak only like 92 or sumthin
Same
sweet summit
weak
deft bridge
what ilvl are you guys running for hc?
signal plover
Literal potato I'm sorry
sweet summit
is ok
deft bridge
im at 208
chilly brook
Now?
sweet summit
im 223 atm
chilly brook
I'm like 217
signal plover
We haven't done the first 6 in heroic in weeks :*(
sweet summit
just skipping for slg/sire loot?
sweet summit
ah
chilly brook
But my ilvl for a lot of my orange parses were like 10 ilvl lower
undone jacinth
can just pug for parses on tanks if you’re bothered
deft bridge
We haven't done the first 6 in heroic in weeks :*(
wtf are you gonna do when you have to do the mythic versions of those bosses
chilly brook
Live
signal plover
?
chilly brook
Parse later lmao
deft bridge
or are you already running them?
signal plover
We've alrdy done em on mythic lol
deft bridge
ahh that's okay
undone jacinth
they aren’t doing them so they can spend the time in mythic
half umbra
skill aside, what would be the recommended ilvl for M+ 10 as prot war
signal plover
Well, darkvein this week cuz we went artificer first kek
chilly brook
Idk like 190 or 200
sweet summit
190 id say
deft bridge
gonna have to kite anyways so oh no no no no
chilly brook
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
native coyote
190+, 200 to be more comfortable
undone jacinth
7s drop 200 so would just get all those first
deft bridge
now that you say it, it does sound easier to solo a dungeon than rely on dpss
patent osprey
comms is the best way to time keys as a prot warrior ^.^
find some people u like playing with, doesnt matter the comp
sterile moss
What kind of overall numbers are decent for dps members on a +14?
patent osprey
and just talk about the key as ur doing it
undone jacinth
in a 7 you can take any old shlub through though
sweet summit
zugzug
undone jacinth
as is proven by my 1k dps arcane mage
sterile moss
Is 4.5k too low?
chilly brook
i failed a +4 recently
I did a 4 on my ret paladin, my key, and it was a nightmare
Absolute nightmare
undone jacinth
4.5k dps?
deft bridge
yeah, if people don't kill worms in first boss of nw there's no ilvl that can save you
sterile moss
For a dps, yes
chilly brook
Is 4.5k too low?
It's probably ok, I'd want 5k though for 15s
undone jacinth
for what level? For a 7 that’s high
sterile moss
14
undone jacinth
oh, you can do a 14 with 4.5k
if they are just average joe geared then that’s ok numbers
sterile moss
Just seems like mobs last so long
ionic fern
For 15's depending on the dungeon anywhere near 6k would be goood. But there are so many mediocre DPS polayers around
chilly brook
Like me
undone jacinth
sometimes it’s good to understand what class they are playing and to play towards their strengths but there’s only so much you can do if they aren’t great
chilly brook
Cuz I'm trying to get good at dps
sterile moss
Don’t try it in spiteful week 😆
undone jacinth
god bless people trying to play melee
sweet summit
mwahi come horde and ill blast dps
chilly brook
I mean spiteful isn't too hard to not die to
ionic fern
I have a DH i run with and he's usually the benchmark for DPS.
😂
If they are lower than the DH they are bad.
chilly brook
Just look for the eyes on your character and the red mob
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Dont tunnel and you're gucci
It's still a shit affix
sterile moss
Sure, but the lost dps
ionic fern
mwahi come horde and ill blast dps
My druid is horde. 😦
sterile moss
One ... more... hit
ionic fern
I tried arms in m+, did a whooping 3k overall
undone jacinth
still had your shield on? 😂
chilly brook
A lot of it can be mitigated by using your CC and the tank moving whatever is still alive away
sweet summit
but thats not a warrior :(
chilly brook
I need to do more 3s on my ret boi
ionic fern
👀
chilly brook
Ret damage is stupid in pvp
silent grove
I’ve been switching to arms for pvp
sweet summit
i can live with ret damage, but ret healing must be nuked
chilly brook
i can live with ret damage, but ret healing must be nuked
20% on tuesday
undone jacinth
Remove bop from pvp thank you
uneven mason
if they're gonna neuter MS in PVP, they could at least reduce DPS healing 😄
hazy fern
Can you link the patch notes?
sweet summit
just condemn through bop
chilly brook
Hybrid healing really do be outta hand
uneven mason
@undone jacinth go venthyr, give 0 craps about BoP
sweet summit
undone jacinth
I’m not pvping as war 😦
chilly brook
Just be a blood elf and torrent bop
uneven mason
Explains why you have a bad time.
undone jacinth
I can only pvp if I have access to convoke
silent grove
Hybrid healing really do be outta hand
Member when hybrid tax was a thing?
undone jacinth
otherwise it eats my soul
uneven mason
glad they're minorly nerfing convoke
chilly brook
Maybe if you convoked as the good spec....
sweet summit
no more full moons 
uneven mason
Member when hybrid tax was a thing?
I remember when it was a pathetic excuse for them to not have to balance classes.
silent grove
Lol
chilly brook
Member when hybrid tax was a thing?
Basically what he said
Lazy excuse from community
To justify only having one viable spec
uneven mason
It only took 1 patch for them to walk it back because they realized taht there was no longer any Hybrids
Because a hybrid would have meant a fury warrior could've slapped on a shield and tanked
which wasn't even remotely possible
Druids come close currently though, with Treecats and Bear Trees
silent grove
I’ve always wanted to wield a 2h and a shield
chilly brook
Glad stance when
undone jacinth
I’ve been playing fury wrong...
uneven mason
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
undone jacinth
druids are legit hybrids in hotw
uneven mason
8.0 Prot was best version of Gladiator stance
silent grove
Because a hybrid would have meant a fury warrior could've slapped on a shield an...
Wasn’t that the design philosophy of cata?
uneven mason
yes and the reason why Fury was below healers in DPS
undone jacinth
just like SL 😂
chilly brook
8.0 Prot was best version of Gladiator stance
I mean legit glad stance so I can just be a dps without needing to worry about tanking bs and having single target damage not just aoe
valid zodiac
Can some1 list what are the go to spells to track for M+? I've downloaded the OmniCD and have no idea what to track(Beside known ones such as Combust,Meta,Convoke etc..)
valid zodiac
Yea and those
silent grove
I’d dig a gladiator stance
uneven mason
I enjoyed gladiator stance until it was used as a legit excuse to nerf prot warriors into the dirt and leave them there for 2 patches
sweet summit
Can some1 list what are the go to spells to track for M+? I've downloaded the Om...
healer externals
undone jacinth
I just track the big thing each spec does, combust, true shot etc
silent grove
Gain 20% damage. Vengeance no longer cleaves.
Thunderclap radius reduced.
undone jacinth
and healer stuff ye
sterile moss
I would say before tracking, the move would be to research the classes on wowhead/iv. Not much use having a tracking icon for an ability you don’t know
chilly brook
I enjoyed gladiator stance until it was used as a legit excuse to nerf prot warr...
Imagine nerfing the entire spec in order to nerf the talent and then removing the talent on account of it "not being popular"
uneven mason
Right
which was wrong, because the talent was popular
it was a flat 5% DR
just no one ran prot warriors in progression raiding
due to threat being garbage and survivability being horrifyingly bad vs nearly any other tank.
chilly brook
And Glad wasn't good outside of the initial showing as a dps role because the nerfed it into the ground and they never adjusted it after
uneven mason
right
"How do we adjust GLadiator? Oh lets nerf SS damage, that won't hurt anything"
chilly brook
Just classic "we can't be fucked to balance it so let's just remove it and give a BS reason later"
My favorite were the tanks and guilds that complained about the spec
Because "you're actively hurting the game for tanks because you're removing shield drops from tanks"
"Yeah what about holy paladins and ele shamans dumbass"
uneven mason
I ran gladiator as a DPS in Highmaul because fury was horrible
then they nerfed gladiator, buffed fury a bit
did that until BRF - ended up as a resto shm because of how bad melee got punished in there.
more than 2 melee in WOD lol
undone jacinth
Warr: Recklessness/Avatar, Rallying Cry Pala: Avenging Wrath, Blessing of Sacrifice, Aura Mastery, Hunter: True shot, Rogue: Shroud, Priest: Pain Suppression, Guardian Spirit, Power Word: Barrier, Shaman: Ascendance, Earth Elemental, Spirit Link Totem, Mage: Combustion, Warlock: Dark Soul: Misery, Monk: Xuen, Life Cocoon, Revival, Druid: Celestial Alignment, Force of Nature, Tranquility, Ironbark, DH: Metamorphosis, Darkness, DK: Army of the Dead @valid zodiac
undone jacinth
if you just have those plus interrupts plus all covenant abilities you will be fine and you can just read them to learn what they do, you will also see when they are active
turn on tool tips
chilly brook
Oh and the wonkyness of Storm Earth and Fire
But man
Was so nice to be able to individually control them
uneven mason
Yeah, WoD was rise of the Brewmaster
WW I don't think I saw many
but BrM was so OP
chilly brook
Didnt see many BrMs in WoD
neat dirge
@strong forum do u have Sanguine vintage?
uneven mason
Didnt see many BrMs in WoD
Doing mythic progression in BRF both of our tanks swapped to BrM
because they were head and shoulders above the other tanks
uneven mason
we could just not heal them for huge stretches of time
chilly brook
WoD brm was also just a lot more skill intensive than the class has been in a long time
Though I will say wtf
WW got way too many flow charts rn
signal plover
Ahhh yes BRF, back in my AotC only days
chilly brook
Saaaaame
signal plover
I still remember the night we killed HC black hand because I ate two big Macs and 20 nuggets before hand and got the meatsweats halfway through the night
chilly brook
I still remember the night we killed HC black hand because I ate two big Macs an...
Lmaooo
We actually had a prot warrior tank
signal plover
-_-
uneven mason
big oof
signal plover
Didn't sco warr tank M blackhand WF on pwarr
uneven mason
yeah HFC
they "fixed" prot finally
might've been halfway through BRF progression
but once they made the swap out our tanks didn't wanna go back haha.
signal plover
I quit like day 1 of HFC and ended up playing the Wildstar rework for awhile
signal plover
20 man datascape best raid I've ever played tbh
chilly brook
Idk man
signal plover
Launch was hella scuffed, itemization was awful
chilly brook
It died for a reason
astral crystal
reject WoW, return to Rift
silent grove
WildstAr aka wowkiller #13256
neat dirge
any1 who got Sanguine vintage?
uneven mason
Played 2 days
Beta tested for 7 hours, uninstalled that day
uneven mason
any1 who got Sanguine vintage?
I use a normal vintage
uneven mason
Best class system of any mmo hands down though
Chloro/Necro/Warlock until they nerfed Chloro heals to only work on chloromancer dots
discipline priest with affliction warlocks DoT powers basically, somuch fun.
undone jacinth
only really use the vintage when I know the absorb is being eaten
dunno what I'd need the WA for
uneven mason
I Mean, its a single shot absorb
undone jacinth
don't feel like that's something I need to know tbh
neat dirge
And timing on how long it's active
uneven mason
Its irrelevant?
undone jacinth
you click it and then its gone a second or two later
uneven mason
Since you should only be using it to reduce busters
undone jacinth
my hp naturally shows absorbs anyway but it's still not necessary
undone jacinth
what are you figuring is max value
neat dirge
It has alot of uses
undone jacinth
it never heals you unless you're wasting it
undone jacinth
if the shields not getting absorbed
sterile moss
maybe when kiting
neat dirge
Like after hand of destruction
undone jacinth
use a different trinket
valid zodiac
/oc
neat dirge
I use 207 hakkar trinket in m+
i love being able to see Effective healing on my usage on the trinket
undone jacinth
if the trinket is healing you there is a 99% chance somebody is playing wrong
chilly brook
Chloro/Necro/Warlock until they nerfed Chloro heals to only work on chloromancer...
I think my favorite was the cleric, running justicar, shaman, warden being a legit busted aoe healing powerhouse through doing melee dps
neat dirge
i told u aslong as a bit of the shield is remaining
its nice to see that the remaining heal isnt converted to overhealing
undone jacinth
I just don't understand
neat dirge
why not?
undone jacinth
if it's going to be converted to overhealing, what are you gonna do?
ask someone to damage you?
chilly brook
This seems like big braining something that doesnt need to be big brained
undone jacinth
and not to heal you
neat dirge
no, but its data
undone jacinth
data!?
neat dirge
i want to know
chilly brook
Data that is useless
neat dirge
not for me
undone jacinth
do you track how much overheal you're receiving on your combat text
neat dirge
yall weirdos
signal plover
I mean tbh it's not rly something to have an argument over. Ppl can choose to display information like this
silent grove
Do guys pronounce it data or data?
undone jacinth
day ta
neat dirge
im testing the trinket at specific timings in a boss fight
chilly brook
You dont need data to be like "eh maybe I shouldn't have used it there"
signal plover
That's not rly the point tho
chilly brook
That's not rly the point tho
I'm not sure there is a point
signal plover
There's not
neat dirge
alright good for u, i like seeing my data
signal plover
I'll check out the WA
chilly brook
Ok
signal plover
Ppl been rly jumpy bout the most mundane shit in here lately #shrug
neat dirge
yeah
tardy parcel
lol
chilly brook
Probably because tanking sucks
tardy parcel
that's unfortunately just also kind of how it is on a big discord
signal plover
The only valid argument to have here is why nom has to play vulpera
chilly brook
signal plover
And
neat dirge
its a WA that shows cooldown, Shield remaining (color change depening on how much remaining), uptime on the shield, and at the end how much is converted to healing / overhealing
it littrarly shows everything
signal plover
Why you should play never surrender
uneven mason
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
neat dirge
ty Mwahi
chilly brook
Why you should play never surrender
signal plover
uneven mason
I mean
neat dirge
accually
i think they should juse
u know
give warrior 70% dmg increase
across the board
ionic fern
👀
neat dirge
and 120% more stamina and armor
ionic fern
All we need is a bit more damage and we're fine.
signal plover
Hold on, if I use this sanguine vintage WA
uneven mason
and per hit % absorb
ionic fern
We are already tank as hell tbh
sick sentinel
i dont think its going to be very good but i got this from maw daily
uneven mason
it'd be neato
signal plover
Is it sure to make me win
neat dirge
@ionic fern /s
tardy parcel
i dont think its going to be very good but i got this from maw daily
that's good af
big grats lol
neat dirge
@ionic fern realtalk doe, its kinda weird how Warriors are the only class that Really chooses between spending resorces on dmg or tankiness
most classes get a bit dmg + tankiness
or dmg + a bit tankiness
astral crystal
i think prot is due for a rework honestly
undone jacinth
you got a 197 hymnal from the maw
uneven mason
i think prot is due for a rework honestly
we're fine
undone jacinth
wtf?!
neat dirge
I mean I guess we get dmg from shieldblock cuz it increases dmg on shieldslam
uneven mason
Its the GCD cost, other tanks deal damage while using their AM
tardy parcel
it's less about being fine and more about not being inline with the tanking model they seem to be trying to go for now
chilly brook
All we need is a bit more damage and we're fine.
Damage buff would be welcome
chilly brook
i think prot is due for a rework honestly
I'd be more than okay with this
uneven mason
big happy
chilly brook
we have an opportunity cost on defense or offense.
Eh, BrM and Pally certainly dont have that
chilly brook
Technically yes
undone jacinth
pala does
chilly brook
Celestial Brew
undone jacinth
if you're not wogging then you're probably dying
uneven mason
SoTR does dmg with their thingy
astral crystal
poor pala, man
uneven mason
I guess WOG?
astral crystal
they looked so promising in beta
tardy parcel
the last time i wogged in public i was arrested for indecency
undone jacinth
wog yea
uneven mason
WOG is basically if IP was legion IP
chilly brook
Just sayin theres really no opportunity cost lost for a lot of the top performers in terms of damage
uneven mason
yeah
chilly brook
Judgement is bonkers
astral crystal
bring back enraged regen/second wind, bring back old shield barrier
undone jacinth
there's just some tanks not doing great damage in general
uneven mason
bring back enraged regen/second wind, bring back old shield barrier
god no
undone jacinth
regardless of opportunity cost
neat dirge
Don't paladin do massive dmg as tank?
astral crystal
you literally could not die with second wind
undone jacinth
yea and die easy
neat dirge
Blame healers when u die kekw
uneven mason
WHat I'm saying is the other tanks don't really suffer from the offense defense choice like we do
undone jacinth
opportunity cost built in to the class xd
uneven mason
they do offense with defense
neat dirge
Yah
undone jacinth
I mean calling death strike offense is a bit of a stretch in m+
and bears definitely lose a lot of dmg
neat dirge
It's still dmg
uneven mason
I mean calling blood DKs a tank is a bit of the stretch in M+
tardy parcel
i believe both you and griff are saying the same thing
undone jacinth
it's more numbers than anything
if clap did a lot of damage then nobody would talk about opportunity cost
modest oxide
Hi all -- curious if there is a general consensus for going right or left on spires. I used to go left since one of the guides said it was 'easier' but the right side seems fine to me if kicks are assigned to the goliaths. Views?
undone jacinth
pretty much exactly as you say
right requires more co-ordination but gives a bit more count
neat dirge
i go right kill all mobs then go left
undone jacinth
I prefer left because it's more straightforward in pugs
sick sentinel
Hmm, what if I wanna make necrolord protection warrior for weeklies : ) how bad is the banner compared to spear or shock?
neat dirge
the invis packs
ionic fern
I personally enjoy the playstyle of "this or that". Just buff our offensive numbers a bit and we will be fine.
strong forum
<@!192743144276623360> do u have Sanguine vintage?
na i have bloodscale
neat dirge
bloodscale is nice
undone jacinth
Hmm, what if I wanna make necrolord protection warrior for weeklies : ) how bad ...
it's bad but necrolord look cool af so you will be fine
tardy parcel
I personally enjoy the playstyle of "this or that". Just buff our offensive numb...
I feel the same way; it's part of why I enjoy prot as much as I do. I enjoy feeling that I have a greater sense of control over whether I'm focusing on staying alive or pumping damage. Makes non-random deaths feel like something I could have helped to avoid; it's impactful.
undone jacinth
agree with that
patent osprey
Hmm, what if I wanna make necrolord protection warrior for weeklies : ) how bad ...
in my experience, cov matters very little for pushing m+ for prot war
so if you like it go for it :)
tardy parcel
207 bloodscale dropped in my DoS run last night with my co-tank DPSing and i gave it to him cuz he's been screwed on trinkets the entire expansion. it hurt so bad to give it away, but he really appreciated it lol
hopefully karma looks kindly upon me in the vault tomorrow
uneven mason
if clap did a lot of damage then nobody would talk about opportunity cost
This is true, because our damage on our abilities was compensated, our resource generators was a big source of our DPS in BFA, and thus, we didn't really have the "cost" of not pressing revenge that much, originally we did with IP on the GCD. With how things are now, the cost is tied into the spending of the rage rather than the GCD spent.
Since our major offensive ability now costs rage it the choice of offense vs defense is now about resource management, but there is no compensation, our damage is lackluster compared to other tanks even when "pumping"
chilly brook
My problem with the "choice" of where to spend rage is that it's not really a "choice"
You either need to spend the rage on defense
Or you dont
And if you do
Fuck you
Holding aggro against a paladin when you have to be defensive and hes 500dps ahead of you?
Good luck
nova vector
My group is struggling to time 14s and 15s and I’m not sure if it’s me or them. I feel like packs stay alive for ever and I run out of CDs. What would be a reasonable amount of dps to expect a player running 14s/15s to pull?
I know I’ll vary greatly with class/dungeon. Just looking for ballpark numbers
ionic fern
5k+
chilly brook
And I'm still bare minimum 500dps behind my pally cotank even when pumping as hard as possible and having a 99
nova vector
Typically run with a WW monk, Ele shaman, and shadow priest
strong forum
5k+ for your dps players, you as tank should be around 3k
nova vector
I usually manage 2.6 to 2.8
strong forum
And it should be smooth sailing
nova vector
Although did 3.2 in a 14 Mist last night
ionic fern
And your DPS players?
strong forum
4.3k
nova vector
They are typically more around 4.2k
ionic fern
That's pretty lackluster.
strong forum
Yeah 4k is pretty low
chilly brook
4.3k <:deswind:533073964096946176>
Damn I need to pull bigger
nova vector
I just feel like I’m pulling as fast as I can and we still get to the end with no time left
We did a 15 sanguine with like 4 deaths and still went way over time
strong forum
Na it's just your dps being shit then
twin raptor
which one is better for kiting in high m+, kyrian or nf?
ionic fern
Kyrian.
ionic fern
We did a 15 sanguine with like 4 deaths and still went way over time
100% your DPS players then.
strong forum
It's just your dps players being bad
twin raptor
i see, thank you
nova vector
@strong forum 3.9 on Mist is crazy
I already felt like I was overusing revenge when I did 3.2
mighty valley
the one thing you can check logs for is how many times they're using their cooldowns, vs. the length of the cooldown
in my experience the number one thing that causes low m+ dps is "saving cooldowns"
chilly brook
<@192743144276623360> 3.9 on Mist is crazy
Tbh Mists is just a pumper key lots of 5 packs and big pull opportunities
Especially towards the end
ionic fern
- majority of the damage is blockable.
chilly brook
^
strong forum
In DoS I did 3.9k I think, NW 4.5k but that's pad
Weirdly enough only 3.8k in hoa 🤔
nova vector
I honestly haven’t been running logs and that’s on me
strong forum
I legit thought id pump 4k+ in hoa
nova vector
Gonna start tonight so I can get to the bottom of it
strong forum
But I had to kite annoying amount cuz I didn't get lucky parries on dogs...
strong forum
That's big pump time
With last stand up you get to perma revenge spam there
Big damage
chilly brook
Especially since you can get the second to last prideful
strong forum
Never move an inch
chilly brook
Just go ham
ionic fern
Mhm,ardenwald in DoS and Mists are two favourite places to pump and do huge pulls.
"Oh no, we are so close in DoS and we have Ardenwald yet to do!!".-..clean the whole area in like 2-3 pulls
chilly brook
Ardenweald is the only place I feel safe enough to pump in DoS lmao
ionic fern
ok then.
ionic fern
Ardenweald is the only place I feel safe enough to pump in DoS lmao
Jeah, the rest is just playing leapfrog.
nova vector
With last stand up you get to perma revenge spam there
See I’m scared to do that because eventually my SB charges will run out and feels like everything will still be half health
chilly brook
See I’m scared to do that because eventually my SB charges will run out and feel...
Well like I said, after second boss in Mists, the mobs dont do much damage
And you're gonna have a prideful
pine marsh
if i could only craft 1 legendary, The Wall or Thunderlord?
ionic fern
In that specific pull there's nothing to use your rage on other than Revenge tho as it's pretty much all blockable.
Just watch when Last Stand is about to run out and keep enough for the next SB
lilac bloom
i just had another go at heroic sire. P2 i should jump to add with the boss right? or else he hits me 50% damage
nova vector
👍🏻
lilac bloom
shouldnt
chilly brook
Like so this is an old video but should give you an idea
Tbh I'd probably pull the next pack too now
patent osprey
Man u guys doing 4k dps??? T_T im only doing like 3.1 to 3.5k T_T
valid zodiac
Hmm so OmniCD wont show the covenant ability CD unless the other player also has OmniCD?
ionic fern
We just have to make up our horrible DPS players DPS .
chilly brook
I'll take the io over the overall dps
patent osprey
i wish i could have fun with my cov and change them based on hte content im doing T_T
chilly brook
Fax
patent osprey
you think if i change my cov to Necrolord, people will throw a fit?
ionic fern
Ofc
chilly brook
TC now makes Condemn cleave
I would reroll in a heartbeat
chilly brook
As we do with it now
ionic fern
So please don't,.
patent osprey
.< sorries
chilly brook
All g chief
ionic fern
What's your ST damage like tho?
patent osprey
mmmm give me a boss and ill check my vod
ionic fern
Any tank and slap one, like HoA first one
ionic fern
I'd like to roll Venthyr or Necro just cause i'm sick of being Kyrian on almost all the tanks. 😦
ionic fern
Yeah,.
chilly brook
📈
patent osprey
counts as venthyr
wild sandal
do we play kleia to help with healing or that is a no?
chilly brook
I'd like to roll Venthyr or Necro just cause i'm sick of being Kyrian on almost ...
Everything I actually consider playing is Kyrian
Rogue, monk, paladin smh
placid oar
Hi guys, is Venthyr better than Kyrian now for us tanks? Or is Kyrian still better due to spear and phial?
chilly brook
Lol
ionic fern
Venthyr in raids is solid.
In AoE situations like m+ NF/Kyrian are still superior,.
placid oar
ah icic
thank you Mwahi
so if i get most of my gear from raid, it is better to stick to Kyrian or NF?
ionic fern
You can still do all content with any covenant tho, so if you like Venthyr just go for it.
placid oar
i mean M+
i see
thank you very much (=
yea cos i think the Tmog is pretty cool
but unsure
plus Phial is really handy
ionic fern
Spear does help out a lot in AoE situations and Phial is great, don't get me wrong. but going Venthyr won't stop you from doing m+ keys, it's just another "toolset"..e.g you are better on bosses etc.
placid oar
i was looking at the soulbinds and thought Venthyr looks pretty good defensively
thank you Mwahi, really appreciate it
undone jacinth
venth soulbinds are the real deal
placid oar
btw, are there any advice for threat when partied with a Ret Paladin?
i casted a TC and 1 revenge but they still snapped aggro
placid oar
venth soulbinds are the real deal
o.O, are they deemed better than Kyrian?
ionic fern
1 TC and 1 Revenge won't keep aggro if he has wings etc.
You should usually have one of the following to help you tho:
Ravager/Avatar/BV
uneven mason
avatar + 2 reve
placid oar
You should usually have one of the following to help you tho:
Ravager/Avatar/BV
ah i see, thank you again Mwahi
uneven mason
TC hits like a feather duster without any feathers
or duster
I'd call it a sad shadow of its former self but that would be giving it too much credit
chilly brook
btw, are there any advice for threat when partied with a Ret Paladin?
Grouped with a good ret boi the other day didnt have much of an issue
placid oar
but covenants are a full package
oh, so in terms of full package. That's why Kyrian and NF are deemed better?
uneven mason
We're NF tho
undone jacinth
yea the full package the others offer, because the phial is good, the abilities are very strong in more situations, are slightly better
but if you want to be venthyr, it's not gonna hold you back
placid oar
Grouped with a good ret boi the other day didnt have much of an issue
i see, yea for some reason sometimes my friend snapped aggro