its not complete garbage
#protection
uneven mason
outer solstice
nice tricle healing and dmg
blazing condor
i got a 158 scale
uneven mason
its a nice sold "Might as well"
blazing condor
dunno if i should just replace that shid
uneven mason
vs what ilvl spike?
outer solstice
what spike you have?
blazing condor
200
outer solstice
I'd say spike
modern brook
42 ilvls gets u there imo
uneven mason
raw str alone
sick sentinel
scale from dos? is fine if its best u have
uneven mason
just spike
outer solstice
yeah btu 158... the stats from spike alone are better
modern brook
scale from dos? is fine if its best u have
vs 200 spike
blazing condor
yeah im thinking that too
uneven mason
enjoy the slight misting of health every few pulls
outer solstice
also spike healing and dmg and healing is hardly noticeable durign the fight
but it shows up in logs
modern brook
Whats nice is that it turns overhealing into damage
spiral wave
how come deepwounds doesnt stack or does it
modern brook
it doesnt stack because LOL if it did
outer solstice
gief plz
uneven mason
Imagine if that conduit healed us for 100% of our DW damage
might actually be considered worth taking
modern brook
kite meta would be dead
outer solstice
#doMoreDmgThanPallysPlz
spiral wave
^
modern brook
DW is my healer now
uneven mason
Thats simple, just merge revenge and IP
spiral wave
ok
modern brook
To answer you non-memely DW is just a means to keep aggro on off targets when you cant afford to spam revenge
frail wyvern
IP rage cost just feels too high imo
uneven mason
when you hit something with Revenge it reduces damage they deal to you by 50% up to (insert IP calculation here)
modern brook
its not supposed to be a major damage source
uneven mason
To answer you non-memely DW is just a means to keep aggro on off targets when yo...
DW is quite literally something that is there because they got too lazy to remove it
outer solstice
yeah it's a remnant from the old talent trees
modern brook
deep wounds
outer solstice
deep wounds
uneven mason
they ravagered it
woven trellis
ah ye
outer solstice
originally it was in the arms tree and triggered by critical strikes
pretty early in the tree
uneven mason
it was really potent a few Xpacs ago
outer solstice
so basically any warrior could take it
spiral wave
i dunno when my pally feels like bursting after i need to kite it doesnt really do anything
uneven mason
it was also useless back in Classic/TBC because it took 6 seconds to start dealing damage
and if you were only critting every 7 seconds
you had other problems
outer solstice
yeah,... and debuff slots
uneven mason
but it was required to reach - IMPALE 20% Crit damage
the real champion of hte arms tree
outer solstice
that as well
modern brook
History with Ikarikaze
uneven mason
Well, just so you kids know, as crappy as some things are now, back in my day, you had to spend 20 talent points on complete garbage to reach something that actually increased your damage, oh and Shield Slam, COST RAGE!
outer solstice
oh yeah and shield block only blocked 2 attacks (if specced into it)
uneven mason
and reduced damage by a flat amount rather than a %
modern brook
wasnt the attack CD like 2 minutes in classic?
uneven mason
lol
modern brook
the wall always goes higher
uneven mason
SW/Recklessness etc.. had a shared 30min CD
modern brook
honestly the more i learn about old scool wow the weirder i find that we got to this point
uneven mason
current wow is smooth compared to back in classic/TBC
outer solstice
yeah
uneven mason
WoTLK is when things started taking off
outer solstice
also to pull you better make sure you level your gun skill
uneven mason
THey were like "hey, SBV scales with str properly now, sorry that it was broken for 5 years"
modern brook
Glock is the best tank weapon for sure
uneven mason
+hit scope
outer solstice
they also fixed the slam double hit thing
that made arms even remotely viable in raid
where you had to time your slam jsut before you hit a whitehit
so you can double hit
uneven mason
8%? hit? more like 9%
uneven mason
o
outer solstice
kill me plz
uneven mason
Reforging
outer solstice
and armor pen xD
uneven mason
their first answer to Hit/exp
uneven mason
and then in MoP someone was like
outer solstice
no random BS
uneven mason
"Why don't we just eliminate them"
outer solstice
tbh MoP was the big "everyone get#s everything" expansion
outer solstice
nah played prot then
uneven mason
or multistrike
outer solstice
oh yeah multistrike
uneven mason
and our mastery was multistrike
woven trellis
does rumbling heart have to be effective on 3 target on just touch 3 target
like if one is immune
outer solstice
yeah got it as well
uneven mason
that is a lot of haste.
outer solstice
yeah but I rather have my PvP trinket
@woven trellis are you an engineer?
if you are you can just give it a try with the soultrap
outer solstice
an egineering device
you put it on the ground
mob walks overit
and it CCed for 1 minute
like hard banish
no cancel
you pull 3 mobs, CC 1 with that thing and shockwave
and you have your answer
not in game atm sorry can't do it on my own
modern brook
it needs to hit 3 targets; immunities shouldnt matter
uneven mason
it has to damage 3 targets
modern brook
Honestly yuo should be using storm bolt anyways.
uneven mason
stun is irrelevant
outer solstice
shockwave is fun on casters to line up their spells and SR
modern brook
sure but you have that anyways
uneven mason
NF
modern brook
deversifying your cc is very useful
uneven mason
AE stun and it trucks
chilly brook
Dont click
outer solstice
yeah you also get melee'd at once π
modern brook
imagine not having a keyboard on your mouse
undone jacinth
Click in talent menu
outer solstice
click talent stormbolt
strong forum
Click a macro that uses your key bind
modern brook
use your win 10 on screen keyboard to hit the hotkey for your macro that presses your mouse button
undone jacinth
who was it that had a macro for two different spells on the same button but also had another button with one of the spells on
uneven mason
imagine not having a keyboard on your mouse
this
strong forum
There are several people every now and again dolphin
Binding TC and SB in 1 macro
And so on
uneven mason
who was it that had a macro for two different spells on the same button but also...
I do this, but its like I use mods on the same keybind
chilly brook
I do that on my monk for transcendence
modern brook
Or IP and SS together
how do you get rage then :^(
strong forum
Or SS and SB
uneven mason
Or IP and SS together
My Antorus macro in legion
chilly brook
Shift to place the marker
strong forum
Kek
chilly brook
Regular hit to teleport
undone jacinth
not like that, like a button that either had demo shout or dragon roar on one macro depending on which one was talented, but then had a different button for demo if they had roar talented as well lmao
modern brook
not like that, like a button that either had demo shout or dragon roar on one ma...
This makes me mad
outer solstice
But using 2 abilities without modifiers is oof
unless you have a target condition as well, like charge/intervene
strong forum
Oh dolphin
chilly brook
Modifier macros are fine
But what about my lazy trinket bound for shield slam macro
strong forum
Good days
strong forum
unless you have a target condition as well, like charge/intervene
Well that's a condition macro, also okay
Mad evading skills here ama
undone jacinth
yeah macros are nice but not when they are just literally keybinds
chilly brook
What about my macro to misdirect the tank rolled into all of my abilities?
strong forum
That's just smart
Same as having cancel bop on literally all your buttons
As tank
chilly brook
I just use shift wheel up for BoP canceln
strong forum
My cancel bop is just mouse4 tbh
undone jacinth
has anyone played with someone who has that pride add on that announces in /say who has it and then who gets hit by it and itβs like βMOVEx3β, YOU GOT HIT??? REALLY?β
uneven mason
mine is bound to my taunt button because either way i lose aggro
modern brook
i was doing guild carries yesterday
and my guy was kiting gargons
and the healer goes
"i'll just bop you"
sick sentinel
giga haste
strong forum
Gaming
outer solstice
yeah macros are nice but not when they are just literally keybinds
you should see my priest, I have not a single ability I use on my bars, only macros, for the target conditions mouseover/focus/target for helpful mouseover/target/focus/targettarget for harmfuls
modern brook
Cheat death proc'd before i registered what he said :^(
strong forum
Rogue privileges...
modern brook
Its tough being the best worst class dude
strong forum
"oh no cheat death procced, guess I have to play the game now"
Literally what our rogue did on CD back in bfa
In 22s
modern brook
Its a damage cooldown
uneven mason
I use Dreamweaver
modern brook
Thats like getting mad at a warrior for using avatar
uneven mason
and I got shelled 4x in 2 dungeons
neat dirge
@strong forum how does sludge work, does 2nd tank take more dmg?
strong forum
Same damage
uneven mason
because I'd just not give a damn about mechanics and pump DPS
neat dirge
if i shieldblock
uneven mason
as long as it wasn't on CD
strong forum
Both tanks get hit for the same amount
neat dirge
do i reduce for my 2nd target?
uneven mason
no
strong forum
No you don't
modern brook
imagine it as 2 auto attacks
uneven mason
He literally does 2 auto attacks
modern brook
^
strong forum
Same initial incoming damage before mitigation
neat dirge
so my shieldblock dosnt help?
outer solstice
our raid lead is convinved 1st tank mitigation mitigates dmg on 2nd tank xD
it does
strong forum
Aaah
outer solstice
it's blockable....
strong forum
He literally just Autos both tanks
undone jacinth
except it doesnβt count as an auto attack if you are a bear xd
uneven mason
"Giant Fist" takes the RAW dmg from the hit you took (important) and hits your 2nd target with the same raw damage
outer solstice
or double autos you when the other tank is too far
strong forum
You just play it normally, both tanks have to tank Hits like regular
Nobody reduces the other tanks dmg income
modern brook
you;re both active during the fight
uneven mason
unless you're pumping safeguard and they're good about removing the "intervene" buff
strong forum
He hits for ~42k pre-mitigation
strong forum
For me it was 42k in hc
uneven mason
hmm
uneven mason
did they reduce his dmg?
strong forum
No clue I didn't do sludge in 4 weeks
signal plover
Did they ever fix elusive brawler and rage gain from giant fists?
sick sentinel
my sub runs out in like 24 hours, and my bank acount is like a dollar in the red
uneven mason
ok 45k
sick sentinel
so, might have to go a week without,
uneven mason
Might wanna consider if you got no sub money, there may be more important things that require attentions
outer solstice
I think sludge damage in nhc hc depends a lot on number of players, or not?
uneven mason
no boss damage almost never scales afaik
sick sentinel
bah, just broke is all, thats normal
strong forum
my sub runs out in like 24 hours, and my bank acount is like a dollar in the red
F buy a token for gold or smth
uneven mason
yeah so 45k raw damage from GF/Melee
I really feel like I could probably solo tank him on HC
uneven mason
That is totally on them
I always have the green underwear on my head
easy to see.
outer solstice
on hc you also have the pull, you always have to be ready to move the step away
also enrage
strong forum
Solo tanking hc is an easy way to have a melee get insta gibned
outer solstice
hurts like crap
strong forum
cock
Possible from dmg intake yes, but the random chance of melee getting clapped ain't worth it
outer solstice
also healers walking in and out
and shit and explosions and such
I have like 13k raw DTPS
uneven mason
I'm going to instate my Mythic Fetid rule, that if someone drops a puddle in a bad spot I'm just going to intercept to them
outer solstice
you'd probably take around 25 raw DTPS, if you are amazing and mitigate 80%, that's still a lot
outer solstice
also can pad more if 2 tank
uneven mason
less IPs
better overall parses from the extra DPS tho from having the 2nd tank go WW
outer solstice
also not kite behind the pillar every time
frail wyvern
having an extra melee dps (tank going ww) means worse pools for melee, which can sometimes be nasty on HC depending on the RNG
jagged pier
@sweet summit 
strong forum
Is that warrior or prot specific score
jagged pier
prot
strong forum
What number
jagged pier
hes spanks me in over all
sweet summit
Pog nice man!
strong forum
I want a specific number
jagged pier
1200 and somthing
strong forum
Cuz im 20ish point higher than erga
sweet summit
me
jagged pier
i think 1263
strong forum
Ye im 1288
jagged pier
i mean ill stop when i get all 15s done
strong forum
My keys really show my extreme commitment to m+
And serious pushing
Of hardcore spamming keys
And abusing push weeks
astral crystal
you guys watching mdi?
steady spruce
More like spamming excuses :p
astral crystal
is that 11 nw
sweet summit
Yugest gamer
steady spruce
Mdi is fun too make you feel like shit.
Can't wait to have dps complain o don't take the mdi route
strong forum
Yuh
astral crystal
nah nobody takes mdi route lol
sweet summit
Watch me 
astral crystal
your average timmy the tard in pugs won't be demanding most of this
jagged pier
Very serious m+ gaming OK
dont more 15s than me XD
astral crystal
lol
sweet summit
Might as well stick to hc dungeons then tbh
astral crystal
i support my boi lightee
strong forum
Unless it's my boi Herudra or Deswind ofc.
sweet summit
Watching echo is a waste as well cos you know they will win π
sweet summit
Yeah its sick to watch
astral crystal
these pulls are nutso
lavish oracle
Sad that MDI is such a shitty value proposition that Lightee's leaving
strong forum
Can somebody check if naowh is playing spb
Cuz it would make sense for pulls of this size
astral crystal
spb?
strong forum
Spirit bomb
FB ain't gonna do shit on 20 mobs
Need that aggro from spirit bomb
Cuz no MD
And soulcleave is capped to 5 targets and elysian decree is dropoff after 5 targets
strong forum
Not in hoa
astral crystal
oh i didnt watch hoa, that was in pf though
honest echo
Quick question.... what should vers be at? Mine is at 11% and I was told that's too low.
jagged pier
no value matter
outer solstice
it should be as high as you have it when you use your best gear ^^
uneven mason
it should be as high as you have it when you use your best gear ^^
βοΈ
uneven mason
are we being toxic
outer solstice
sweet summit
No just watching MDI
honest echo
Some elitist told me it should be at 20%
outer solstice
lol
sweet summit
Well thats not true
strong forum
Ilvl > haste > vers / crit > mastery
uneven mason
They're a flipperhanded squirrel
sweet summit
There are no magic stat numbers you need
outer solstice
probably because he looked up the best warriors and pvP gearing is the easiest path
so many run a lot of vers
uneven mason
Or he's reading Noxxic guides
strong forum
Geezus
outer solstice
like I,... I sit at 19% vers atm..... with 9 PvP pieces
strong forum
Noxxic still exists
uneven mason
IDK
outer solstice
yeah
uneven mason
I haven't checked
strong forum
It was already bad in wrath
outer solstice
it's so weird
uneven mason
Its like the infowars of wow sites.
sweet summit
they recommend ravager for survival
So do we what
outer solstice
also we don't even show up on noxxic tank rankins xD xD
uneven mason
I Mean
sterile moss
wait mdi is live??
strong forum
Technically itf is better for raw survival
uneven mason
we're not in wow analyser
sterile moss
oh yt
strong forum
But ravager has different amazing benefits
uneven mason
Ravager is for pumping
strong forum
In an m+ setting
sweet summit
Yeah true
strong forum
Well rav is capped to 8
outer solstice
well 8 is quite a lot nowadays
uneven mason
But if you pump Rev while Rav is out
strong forum
I guess
uneven mason
you hit more
strong forum
Yuh
uneven mason
and yeah pull sizes larger than 8 is not the norm anymore.
not like BFA where we were clearing entire floors at once with super brick TC mode
sterile moss
didn't realize priest was the play for nw π€
outer solstice
nice skip though
outer solstice
PI OP
strong forum
On 10 targets, a mages combust dps goes from 50k to 70k from just PI
A hunters dps only from 30 to 37k or smth
chilly brook
No
outer solstice
100% invite
uneven mason
lol
outer solstice
yeah
strong forum
But not on 3min
uneven mason
NL conduits are indeed hot garbage
chilly brook
I don't play a class to be a buff bot
outer solstice
well, look at NF priest xD
uneven mason
I don't play a class to be a buff bot
Thats what DHs are for
outer solstice
and laugh
chilly brook
If I wanted that I'd go play bard in rift
chilly brook
Truuuuueeee
outer solstice
yeah we can do the rest of the bitchjobs too shrug
chilly brook
But my rogue is on the up
modern brook
lol
chilly brook
And so is my huntard
modern brook
better choice tbh
strong forum
I should reroll UHDK
modern brook
yes
strong forum
Tbh
chilly brook
better choice tbh
Which?
modern brook
hunter
chilly brook
You say that
modern brook
your just trading 1 bitch job for another w/ rogue
modern brook
in raid smh
chilly brook
Hunter is dummy ez tho
Like I swear you cant fuck it up
Bursting to 13k at 171 is lmaoo
outer solstice
tbh raid dmg looks pretty balanced finally
with mages and priest a bit on top
150k DPS
gasp
tf?
chilly brook
your just trading 1 bitch job for another w/ rogue
What's so bad about rogue though
chilly brook
Other than celerity being boring as a lego
outer solstice
rouge that
outer solstice
mark of the master assasin? gasp
modern brook
You're cc bitch and your damage is boring
uneven mason
"Rogue - the bard who can't sing"
modern brook
just consistently above avg
Sub is snoresville and assa is unplayable
I've never been a big fan of outlaw
uneven mason
I liked outlaw, before it was outlaw
outer solstice
#makeCombatGreatAgain
modern brook
Outlaws really good rn dont get me wrong
open monolith
I'm really impressed with the prot warrior representation in the MDI!
Once again, we prove that even cheerleaders on the bench are important to the success of the team π
chilly brook
But you play prot warrior @modern brook
modern brook
Exactly i need less unga in my life
modern brook
tryna maximize my bunga u feel?
open monolith
almost every class in the game is hammer abilities when they come off CD
with like, the exception of DoT classes
sterile moss
that necropolis cheese
open monolith
both the necropolis cheese AND pulling 5 fucking groups and killing them all with the rogue crit legendary + orb
that was insane
outer solstice
yeah
open monolith
does master assassin proc from shadowmeld, too?
sterile moss
1/23 hotfixes: nw items no longer crit
modern brook
LOL MA procs the interupt orb ??
chilly brook
Is the rogue sub?
open monolith
outlaw
modern brook
does master assassin proc from shadowmeld, too?
no but you can stealth from shadowmeld to get it
chilly brook
Wat
open monolith
Master Assassin legendary + stealth + anima orb on NW wake
chilly brook
Shit I need to get more in depth with this shit
open monolith
= melt 5 groups at once with 150k dps
modern brook
thats actually hilarious
uneven mason
"target capping is balanced - we're fairly sure the ones left won't be impactful"
sterile moss
it is... supposed to be
modern brook
Cuz from what I was told celerity was the only pick for outlaw
Yeah it is until you're allowed to crit with anima orb
chilly brook
modern brook
Celerit is a legendary not a talent
sweet summit
MA is just flat 100% crit so it affects everything that can crit
modern brook
you're thinking alacrity
open monolith
oh
uneven mason
Yeah it is until you're allowed to crit with anima orb
That is going to get "Fun Detected" so hard that funs grandchildren will go blind.
modern brook
YEah
modern brook
a little disapointing i didnt think to check for that before the mdi
open monolith
where else are you going to see 5 groups pulled at once on a +18
sterile moss
That is going to get "Fun Detected" so hard that funs grandchildren will go blin...
lol
modern brook
I fully expect that to get hotfixed within a week
sterile moss
for sure
chilly brook
I fully expect that to get hotfixed within a week
Try in 5 hours
sterile moss
an exploit
open monolith
I wouldn't be surprised if the necropolis cheese was in fact called an invalid run
chilly brook
Nah banned for exploiting
open monolith
that was stupid
sterile moss
unintended in-game advantage
modern brook
yeah u right sorry
open monolith
but the anima orb with master assassin seems okayish
uneven mason
Try in 5 hours
Which tier was it that thye were hotfixing the bosses mid pull on the WF race
like HP values were changing
was it Tomb?
chilly brook
Uldir I think
open monolith
8.0?
modern brook
p sure uldir yeah
uneven mason
it was before BFA I thought
modern brook
cause it was a fetid thing iirc
open monolith
nah it was definitely BFA
uneven mason
might've done it in BFA too I suppose
open monolith
fetid isc orrect
chilly brook
They did a lot of fucky shit in Uldir
uneven mason
yeah that rings a bell as well
modern brook
fwiw 8.0 sure does feel like before BFA
chilly brook
Literally destroyed Limits comp overnight
uneven mason
BFA started for prot when IP came off the GCD.
open monolith
the MDI is going to get fire mage AOE capped
modern brook
smh
open monolith
oooh sanguine depths
uneven mason
i've never actually watched an MDI before
Imagine without capped pulls and with 5 blood elves and only BDK tanks
modern brook
just remove the aoe caps
open monolith
this gon' be good
sweet summit
just remove the aoe caps
thisthisthisthisthisthisthisthis
uneven mason
the MDI is going to get fire mage AOE capped
THere should be no uncapped AE abilities left TBH
either all of them
or none of them
modern brook
^
uneven mason
doing if half way was flaming idiotic
modern brook
its just an artificial cap on classes that has no reason to exist
undone jacinth
bring boomkin or take 3x as long to clean HoA room xd
sweet summit
or bring 3x firemages and ignore the adds
smoky saffron
If going Pelagos what should be the 7th row be the defense for Brutal or Finesse for presence?
modern brook
If going Pelagos what should be the 7th row be the defense for Brutal or Finesse...
the secret op pelagos route
smoky saffron
the secret op pelagos route
running Bolster?
undone jacinth
thatβs my route!
uneven mason
the secret op pelagos route
βοΈ beat me by 5s
astral crystal
you guys actually like having pot as a heal over time?
modern brook
you guys actually like having pot as a heal over time?
I prefer it to Show of force lol
astral crystal
i dont run show of force either, i just take the L and get the garbage movespeed node
i'll try the HoT pot, maybe it'll be good
undone jacinth
the hot is better because itβs just more heal imo and the reduction trait is a complete bait
modern brook
I like the hot pot compared to move speed
undone jacinth
For sure
astral crystal
like i said t he movespeed is useless
modern brook
I think Focusing mantra is probably the best of the 3 options
astral crystal
i just grabbed it for the double endurance before we had our 7th row
modern brook
But we really dont want 2 potency conduits
cause we dont have 2 good potency conudits
undone jacinth
is focusing the cd reduction
modern brook
running Bolster?
bolster agnostic
modern brook
U can run any of the Enrdurance conduits those are just my preference
uneven mason
I mean, Stalward and UF
modern brook
DW healing is laughable and We spam ip so much that BV doesnt feel like it makes its value back compared to the opprotunity cost of SW time or rage gain
astral crystal
the IP one is so bad
chilly brook
the MDI is going to get fire mage AOE capped
All the MDI is doing is proving that uncapped aoe is too powerful compared to capped and its moot because they're going to get around it somehow
steady spruce
I thought there would be more hunters
chilly brook
Hunters are good in normal keys
undone jacinth
itβs still better to see 5 different classes
chilly brook
But they're capped
undone jacinth
just doesnβt fix the meta
steady spruce
No WARS In MDI?! are we dead class?! WTF Blizzard Fuc U
modern brook
Imagien playing a tank that doesnt fluff your mages
steady spruce
There gonna be an intervene secret strat at some point i swear
sweet summit
What
undone jacinth
just fuck everyoneβs shit up
steady spruce
How do they practise for MDI actually? Do they have access to their geared character and the keys? Specially for the players that don't main their mdi class on live
sweet summit
Tournament Realm
modern brook
MDI is hosted on tourney realm
so they can basically just make their character gear and everything
steady spruce
first time i hear about it i'm not really up to date ^^
undone jacinth
they have access to everything
uneven mason
probably
undone jacinth
The format is just so stale
modern brook
IDK
The problem with this meta imo is that its the meta because other classes arent allowed to compete
chilly brook
^^
modern brook
just like statistically
undone jacinth
There will always be a meta where a small number of classes are picked unless you force some kind of restrictions or caveats on them
chilly brook
Basically you're either the mage hard carrying
Or you're a spec that buffs the mage
Or someone else
Or brings a utility
modern brook
half capping stuff; mixed honestly with how overtuned a lot of the uncapped classes just generally are, just makes it so that you literally arent playing the same game as a mage if youre target capped
chilly brook
That's literally the meta
undone jacinth
If you cap them you just end up with a different set of meta classes though
thereβs not gonna be diversity
modern brook
Yeah metas will always exist
The thing is that I can get like a solid 8 seconds straight of Bladestorm as arms
undone jacinth
I think they just have to be forced to experiment somehow
chilly brook
Which is why arbitrary restrictions to try and remove the meta is retarded
silent grove
There gonna be an intervene secret strat at some point i swear
Charge healer, pummel, stormbolt, fear, shield bash
chilly brook
Including class stacking removal
undone jacinth
if you donβt have restrictions you see the same thing constantly
chilly brook
We still do
chilly brook
I literally am
silent grove
Tournament anything is usually pretty conservative and boring
uneven mason
I mean, there is 100% going to be a meta, some combination that provides something beyond what the others do not situationally.
undone jacinth
you had triple Hunter runs before, you will never have that now
modern brook
MDI shouldnt be treated as an esport anymore than any speed run race is considered an esport
undone jacinth
itβs objectively more diverse
uneven mason
but it only impacts something that less than 0.000001% of the playerbase participates in
chilly brook
So much diversity
uneven mason
so I wouldn't ever make balance choices on the MDI
chilly brook
^^^
undone jacinth
yes thereβs still not massive diversity because the restrictions donβt go far enough, not because having them is a bad idea
uneven mason
I'd say
chilly brook
Oh would you look at that
uneven mason
that placing restrictions would be obtuse
undone jacinth
the restriction has objectively increased diversity
chilly brook
They both run monk
sterile moss
Do we know what ilvl the mdi players are given?
chilly brook
1 slot is different
uneven mason
because no matter what restrictions
undone jacinth
idk what you are failing to understand honestly
undone jacinth
yes so if you donβt apply arbitrary restrictions you will see the same shit always and viewers are gonna get bored af
uneven mason
diversity would be an illusion
chilly brook
MDI has never been about diverse groups
undone jacinth
doesnβt matter if itβs an illusion or not, it would be there
chilly brook
It's always been about seeing crazy shit
uneven mason
But would it?
undone jacinth
yes
chilly brook
It's not though
uneven mason
Because the teams that don't run the meta, would fail to win
modern brook
honestly
chilly brook
You literally have one token dps slot
undone jacinth
yes and then you see locks...
modern brook
doing budget firemage stuff
modern brook
Right but like
"fancy portal strat" is just slower "murder everything in combust" still
silent grove
So what, formula mdi?
modern brook
it only competes cause u said ur not allowed to murder everything in combust
silent grove
Ooh that would kinda cool
undone jacinth
if your argument is that mdi is about crazy shit, stop whining about diversity, if your argument is about diversity, you have to apply restrictions because meta exists
uneven mason
MDI is about crazy shit
undone jacinth
if you wanna see crazy shit you need the craziest classes so you canβt complain
modern brook
Your team gets 1200 iLevel points
ilvl 100 dh, 1100 fire mage
undone jacinth
see brogel has the brain we need
modern brook
i think i win
silent grove
You mean 1200 iLevel prot warrior and some level one trash
undone jacinth
all this chat and golden guardians actually lost wtf
chilly brook
if your argument is that mdi is about crazy shit, stop whining about diversity, ...
I think you're misunderstanding my point, diversity in MDI is a meme. Arbitrary restrictions don't do anything.
heady ivy
How do you guys keep track of buffs on the other tank so you know when to taunt swap? Do you just count the casts of whatever gives stacks?
uneven mason
use a bossmod?
silent grove
Yolo
uneven mason
set them as your focus and have focus debuffs on
modern brook
How do you guys keep track of buffs on the other tank so you know when to taunt ...
Bossmods and voice coms usually cover taunt swaps
uneven mason
Oh
do what I do
taunt when the paladin starts wetting themselves
when you hear tinkle
modern brook
taunt when the paladin starts wetting themselves
so like instantly?
silent grove
A formula league would be kinda cool actually
undone jacinth
I think you're misunderstanding my point, diversity in MDI is a meme. Arbitrary ...
restrictions ensure diversity, whether itβs fake or not, if you donβt want restrictions and you want the craziest stuff, stop complaining about diversity
heady ivy
Kk thanks!
chilly brook
restrictions ensure diversity, whether itβs fake or not, if you donβt want restr...
How does that even make sense]
uneven mason
it doesn't
silent grove
Restrictions do not ensure diversity
silent grove
Nascar isnβt very diverse
Nor is formula 1
And everytime some team comes up with a new trick
undone jacinth
ofc they do, if mage is the best class and youβre allowed to pick it in one key but not the next one you have objectively more diversity because if you didnβt have the restriction the mage would be in both keys... itβs enforced but you have diversity
uneven mason
restrictions don't ensure diversity, it just reduces the variables they consider when selecting the meta
silent grove
It gets outlawed next season
undone jacinth
if youβre allowed something one key and not the next there is literally no way you can argue diversity isnβt increased
uneven mason
But it isn't
undone jacinth
you have different colours on the screen
uneven mason
because you remove mages - so everyone will go to whatevr build is the new meta
undone jacinth
it doesnβt matter what they go, it will be different to the first lineup
Thatβs more diverse automatically
silent grove
But even then
uneven mason
Ok but the individual line ups
silent grove
Most people would still have the same three Alts
uneven mason
will not be more diverse
silent grove
And it would be a 3 toon meta
chilly brook
You';re still going to see the same formula
weakest lineup for the least hard dungeon
best lineup possible for hardest
wow
uneven mason
If mage is removed - what replaces mage will likely be exactly the same on all 3 comps
uneven mason
its all math
signal plover
They are RPing being meta kek
undone jacinth
I canβt believe itβs this hard to understand
if you have more classes being played, itβs more diverse...
very simple
chilly brook
Everyone in Football has a QB and Running Back gotta ban those
sweet summit
but you wont get that by banning mage
uneven mason
Dolphin
Mage comp is the meta
Remove Mage
X Comp is new meta
They're not running specific COMPS
They're Running THE META
WHatever the meta is, they will run it
diversity would remain at near 0
undone jacinth
key one you have a mage, you want to run mage in all 3 keys because mage good... Youβre not allowed to run mage in key 2, you play a new class = more classes used = more diversity
it is not hard to understand
uneven mason
removing a variable in the meta would not negate the meta, it would just change what is the meta.
sweet summit
thats just begging for people to stop playing in the mdi
chilly brook
The formula stays the same
undone jacinth
yes and multiple metas is more diverse than one meta
chilly brook
you just change one variable
prime edge
Do you recomand using Unstoppable Force instead of Ravanger when you got Thunderlord ?
sweet summit
no
chilly brook
It won't be multiple metas
signal plover
No
chilly brook
It will be one
sweet summit
unstoppable is bad
uneven mason
key one you have a mage, you want to run mage in all 3 keys because mage good......
Except the other teams, would be running the same class that replaced mage, thus, diversity would be the same.
You're trying to argue that changing classes in the team is where diversity maters
its not
undone jacinth
you will have a comp for your first key that will be different for your 2nd key when before you could have the same comp for two keys, that is enforced diversity, simple
uneven mason
its across all teams
silent grove
Classes themselves would need to be buffed to change meta
undone jacinth
thatβs one part of it
uneven mason
No that is all of it
undone jacinth
just like now diversity has already been increased by going from 3 of same spec to only one
The next step is key to key
the final step is team to team
team to team will almost never change under any conditions unless you thought of specific restrictions like a reward system or something
fallow mortar
That isn't diverse at all. That is incredibly restrictive
uneven mason
I've run out of words against this cyclic anti-logic
(β―Β°β‘Β°οΌβ―οΈ΅ β»ββ»
undone jacinth
well I just explained it for you
about 30 times
I can do basic math as well which seems to be eluding everyone
silent grove
But all youβve done is move the goal post
undone jacinth
how many classes did a team play
if number is higher = more diverse
not moving any goalposts, have explained the entire concept step by step
as with literally everything there are levels
fallow mortar
Saying you need a specific comp for a specific dungeon is not diverse.
undone jacinth
no it isnβt Iβve said literally the entire time
more classes used = more diverse
if youβre viewing the same comp every game, that is less diversity than a different comp every gsme
uneven mason
If you force them to change the meta, it does not change that they will run the meta, thus, diversity is an illusion with your logic.
undone jacinth
how is this not a basic fact
fallow mortar
More classes used in one instance or all instances?
undone jacinth
you can only use 5 in any one instance
so across runs obviously
guys
answer one question for me
fallow mortar
With 5 being so limiting you will never have your version of diverse
silent grove
Why yes, I do want to be the very best, like no one ever was
hazy fern
They should just nerf dungeons
woven trellis
if u had to choose between Viscera of coalesced hatred 207 and pvp trinket 197 , the one that gives 88 haste and sporadic strength
what do u wear
as a reminder
i have low haste
sweet summit
id take the pvp trinket
undone jacinth
you watch one MDI series - the comp is DH, Hunter, Hunter, Hunter, Druid.... this comp is run 3x. Team A wins ---------- now you watch one more MDI series - the comp is DK, Monk, Rogue, Mage, Priest, the next game is DK, Pala, Druid, Warlock, Shaman, the next game is Warrior, Shaman, Hunter, Druid, Monk ------ Team A wins
sweet summit
im not impressed with vicera
undone jacinth
you are seriously telling me if both teams run the same lineup in each game
undone jacinth
that they are equally diverse?
rancid ember
PVP trink is stronk
uneven mason
If you add artificial restrictions to all teams (the only way to keep it fair) on class selection, you are not increasing the diversity across all teams, you will only change what the meta for that dungeon is. Thus, diversity is unlikely, as you will see almost identical comps across all teams.
fallow mortar
you are seriously telling me if both teams run the same lineup in each game
You are also ignoring human error. Just because a certain comp appears to be the best does not mean it is the best comp for all. People have different playstyles and shine in other ways.
woven trellis
actually, excluding Scale and Alar trinket, what exactly would u wear that u would consider better than pvp trinket
sweet summit
the problem with that is that there are human being playing the mdi
they would have to sink in a fuck ton more hours practicing everything
thats not a good way of doing it
like
i get that you want it
but it just cant work
undone jacinth
If you add artificial restrictions to all teams (the only way to keep it fair) o...
answer the question
in my scenario
you think series 1 is equally diverse as series 2?
uneven mason
That is a different question than you've been hammering at for the past 20min
uneven mason
Also because its unrealistic
undone jacinth
no it isnt
sweet summit
actually, excluding Scale and Alar trinket, what exactly would u wear that u wou...
id probably get anima field emitter tbh
uneven mason
and has no information that supports why those would be the comps
undone jacinth
just answer the question dude
woven trellis
XD
undone jacinth
if two teams run the same comp then diversity is equal in both series?
uneven mason
the 2nd series is more diverse, you're saying because they restricted # of classes to 1 that they increased diversity, but you're ignoring all the other changes between those 2 MDIs
woven trellis
what overall would u get in a ToP
sweet summit
idk overall depends a lot
uneven mason
But its not
undone jacinth
you just said it is
uneven mason
because you moved the goalpost, again.
undone jacinth
???
chilly brook
Scenario 2 wouldn't happen lmao
sweet summit
like, as long as you time the key you did enough damage
uneven mason
Those teams were more diverse because of changes to tanks
not because of class restrictions
undone jacinth
scenario 2 happens if you dont allow the same class from map to map
which happened in a KSM tournament
already
uneven mason
But your argument was
undone jacinth
right so you are accepting restrictions create diversity
uneven mason
removing mages
undone jacinth
that's all I need to know
uneven mason
would increase diversity
undone jacinth
yes mages was one example
you cant use a mage again
map one you can use, map 2 you cant
just like KSM
uneven mason
so the meta shifts
chilly brook
I didn't
uneven mason
Shifting the meta doesn't inherently increase diversity if everyone just moves to the new meta, you're logic is flawed that you think that if the classes change the diversity increases, which it does not necessarily. Because diversity would be taken in a per run snapshot, and if, say, when mages are removed, the teams just move into running Warlocks instead of mages, diversity remains the same.
chilly brook
You've been on the binge about it lmao
undone jacinth
because people dont understand basic logic
uneven mason
You're the one that brought it up
chilly brook
The only thing I said is that the class restrictions did nothing to shift meta
uneven mason
The only thing I said is that the class restrictions did nothing to shift meta
Which is the point of this whole chain
undone jacinth
chilly brook
And ignoring the point
undone jacinth
remind me who brought it up
uneven mason
Yes removing a class from variables would increase diversity in a long run, but MDIs are snapshots, per dungeon the meta changes already.
Thus - your diversity is an illusion
chilly brook
And the meta is the same.....
undone jacinth
an illusion u already agreed was more diverse
uneven mason
and the meta will be constant
uneven mason
I didn't agree your original argument was correct dolphin
I agree'd the 3 teams you pulled out of your ass
were more diverse
ionic fern
Aight, so..Fun discussion. .again.
It's turning into a mindless one again so i'm going to stop it before it goes further.
Feel free to continue it in DM's.
chilly brook
It's a moot change that hurts the crazy shit that I watch for....
undone jacinth
people able to just make up whatever they want
woven trellis
Aight, so..Fun discussion. .again.
It's turning into a mindless one again so i'm...
and again
undone jacinth
interesting
woven trellis
rancid ember
Praise Mwahi 
woven trellis
gentle cloak
is a swing timer still required for devastator?
rancid ember
Swing timer only a thing if ur chaarge weaving I think? Idk of any other real use
uneven mason
its so you don't clip a SS reset with rev or TC
rancid ember
makes sense
undone jacinth
charge weaving 
sweet summit
nah not really, wont change anything
strong forum
Swing timers are only for arms
gentle cloak
thank you
strong forum
Nothing else actually benefits off of it