yeah, I'm 212 and it varies so much
#protection
mighty valley
like, all of Mists, I'm never worried about a thing - but the bad packs in DoS, I really want high DPS and good kicks - and even then, when my initial cooldowns run out I'm hitting the bricks
ornate magnet
First 2 big packs of DoS gives me the heebie jeebies
undone jacinth
best thing to do mate is just log your runs
then you and we can see if theres anything going wrong
lavish oracle
Yeah, there are some spooky packs that you kinda have to kite but you definitely don't have to kite most packs
eager star
thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it
turbid cargo
the only DoS pack that scares me is that first pack on hakkar's side of the ring
undone jacinth
uh
pack before millhouse area
wait no
yea hakkar area
monstrous
its just a coding error honestly
they typed 2 instead of 1 for the bonesoldiers or something
mighty valley
they look so small but they hit so big
rancid ember
They have a magical damage cast if I remember right that's why. I don't seem to struggle with DOS trash as much as other big packs but then again I'm usually on the BDK and just heal the spikes off.
uneven mason
the only DoS pack that scares me is that first pack on hakkar's side of the ring
scary caster boys?
rancid ember
Also those packs should just not be face tanked. You're given a nice big area to kite and can dodge the flower spell casts easy. Even the Warlords are very kitable since they stand still to cast enrage if i recall right. Go in blow a load get threat and start kiting asap. Also on the big purple guys make sure to kick their important cast. Can't remember the name atm
undone jacinth
its the caster pack
u cant run around with 3-4 mobs casting on u
lol
that pack is literally nuke in to oblivion or die
rancid ember
If you're running 12+ your groups should be kicking, and they also have melee guys as well. Not just casters
uneven mason
You can come at it form the other side, and drag it by a pot, if you LOS down the stairs
its instant cast Oodyn
rancid ember
That Pot 4 spirit tho no?
uneven mason
literally obliterates you
rancid ember
I'm at work yall gonna make me bust out info sec
undone jacinth
theres no pot
turbid cargo
lol I throw kyrian spear + ravager on them, and book it down the stairs out of LoS, and hope a caster or two is dead
undone jacinth
by that pack
turbid cargo
then facetank the rest
undone jacinth
the pack is a literal coding error
there should be 1 or 0 bonesoldiers
or a pot nearby
or less casters
or less cast frequency
or just anything
rancid ember
Purple guy casts this - Make sure it is kicked
Dark Lotus is 100% dodgable, then u just kick"Scribes"
lofty widget
unless there's anyone who can purge, then it's a free cast
rancid ember
undone jacinth
theres a million things
in the pack
the biggest issue is the soldiers not those things
but everything is an issue
lofty widget
at least soldiers can be kited fairly easy
uneven mason
sounds like the solution is to ๐ฆ
rancid ember
This goes back to the whole 'kiting' don't face tank these packs. I don't usually pull the melee pack right off the rip either. Usually get the casters worked on abit 1st
undone jacinth
?
the melee pack
is inside
the pack
do you even know what pack this is
lol
rancid ember
I'm not sure you do from what I gather
mighty valley
i really don't think you can split the pack we're talking about?
undone jacinth
you cant
idk what hes talking about
the melee mobs are literally next to the casters
like 2yards away
standing still
echo egret
hey, I could use some help for the last room of HoA , before Chamberlain, with all the souls...
rancid ember
Hakkar's front door
undone jacinth
this is the pack
look at the position of the 3 bonesoldiers
2 are next to the deathspeaker
1 is next to the raptors
it is all 1 pack
lofty widget
guys can someone settle an argument, will ranged dps drop when we're kiting?
mighty valley
i don't think anyone's disagreeing that each individual thing can be handled, it's just a lot of total mindshare on top of big damage output, seems out of wack compared to other dungeons' worst packs
@lofty widget your groups' ranged dps? or enemy dps?
lofty widget
my groups dps
undone jacinth
if the mobs spread out
mighty valley
depends on the pack and your group? some specs care a lot about keeping mobs in a ground aoe
rancid ember
Ok so now I'm confused. thought we was talking caster packs, but that's the 6 melee pack that is extremely kitable @undone jacinth ?
mighty valley
it has a cultist and a deathspeaker
mighty valley
yes, that is the ardenweald door, with the pot
the hakkar side has 2x raptors, 2x bone soldiers, 1x cultist, 1x deathspeaker
rancid ember
Idk I can't say I've struggled with the 6 melee pack compared to that one in a high key fortified week ๐คทโโ๏ธ
undone jacinth
I mean
just sit in here
and wait
you will get multiple ppl come in
and ask about that pack specifically
mighty valley
it's not a 6 melee pack dsfghvdsafg
mighty valley
and it doesn't have a night fae jar unless you do it last
rancid ember
3 bonesoldiers, 2 raptors, 1 death speaker 1 cultist fine 5 melee and a kicked caster that becomes melee
rancid ember
Stacj
Stack on Deathspeaker blow load for about 6-8 seconds with CD's up and kite the rest out yes.
undone jacinth
youve never thought to urself
wow this pack is hard
or I need to prepare for this
rancid ember
Compared to the back across the way or SD Trash or Mists early trash can't say it's bothered me as much no
pack*
undone jacinth
xd
mighty valley
i don't need to kite mists trash as soon as cooldowns are out, i do on this one
that's like... all anyone is saying
rancid ember
All I've said is don't face tank it and kite it tho lol you have 2 kicks in the whole pack
mighty valley
god. the starting question was "what ilvl do you need to face tank packs" and our response was "depends, some places it's fine, some places like these DOS pulls you gotta kite more"
rancid ember
You should be kiting Mists trash though anyway early in? The melee guys leech hp per melee attack and it's laot in higher keys
rancid ember
lol Harrow go up and read from when I started replying xd
mighty valley
i don't know what we're arguing any more
it sure is an example of a pack where you should start kiting asap!
cool, glad we all agree
undone jacinth
ye im aware
rancid ember
They should be kited, they cast it pretty early in and I don't think it is purgable
undone jacinth
man you really like kiting
rancid ember
It's just the meta dawg
sick sentinel
u do what u have to to survive
rancid ember
Not even a survive issue on that pack, it's a killing them fast vs slow by face tanking.
sick sentinel
thats the whole meta
in speed running if a boss does fireball, punch, kick over and over, they call it a cycle, and they want to find the way to kill the boss in the minimum amount of cycles required
undone jacinth
kiting is generally not how you k ill anything fast
chilly brook
I mean why would you face tank the big blue bois anyways in mists
sick sentinel
this translates to M+ very easily
rancid ember
Idk Griff ๐คทโโ๏ธ ๐
chilly brook
I don't enjoy kiting
But like anytime I see them blue I'm not in range
ยฏ\_(ใ)_/ยฏ
mighty valley
Big stuns are also good
rancid ember
Didn't time it from there?
rancid ember
Ohh I used an addon idk doesn't do that thought it meant uh ad time left
like red warning 1 minute left type deal lol
mighty valley
is that an addon? in default for me it just stops at 0
sick sentinel
angry keystones i think, i've used all them probably at some point
thats good enough for me anyway, i get a 213 now i think
rancid ember
Sounds about right. Spires is a good one ever since they nerfed the deadly trash
chilly brook
thats good enough for me anyway, i get a 213 now i think
What ilvl are you?
sick sentinel
199
mighty valley
I need to figure out routes for spires that don't have prideful spawning halfway through that squad leader pack, that's always annoying
chilly brook
Man 199 go do a 10!
rancid ember
There's a really good Fortified route and a pretty god Tyrannical route which one u want?
rancid ember
Fortified Route gives you Prideful for every Goliath Pack, and you lust on 2 trash pulls instead of bosses. 2nd lust can be skipped if you have a Kyrian with Spear or use 2 CC's on the pack before 2nd boss
mighty valley
I guess fort for this week, I'm just looking at the io weekly right now
sick sentinel
there was one time in spires where i thrown off ledge and stuck in literal endless loop, boss couldnt hurt me, i couldn't hurt it, couldnt move or interact with anything or cast any spells
mighty valley
oh yeah, at 199 you should definitely find a group of chill people who are happy to no-timer a 10
chilly brook
Tbh
rancid ember
Fortified Route after 1st boss go left and kill the 4 pack that is a little buggy then go back to the right side and keep going.
mighty valley
especially on fortified week
chilly brook
You could time a 10
sick sentinel
get lifted to platform, droped, again again
mighty valley
yeah, i think just setting expectations if you're pugging is a good way to avoid leavers lol
rancid ember
Dratnos route has you killing both packs by 2nd boss which is painful
sick sentinel
yeah, like how i went to use my ghost trap and used bola instead to CC
that happend in the 7 spires run
200 iq
mighty valley
@rancid ember Huh, I'd probably rather make up that percent like... almost anywhere else lol. But thanks, sounds good
chilly brook
Tbh I'd just make up percent at the end but that's just me
undone jacinth
you're getting it earlier for prides
rancid ember
Yeah.. You're getting that % to Trigger Prides on every Goliath pack (Especially the double) and get use of the Pridefuls. You won't get Prideful for 2nd Boss but you will for 3rd if you do the skips.
rancid ember
I never go left but maybe that way is better for some. Goliath's aren't bad especially when you have prideful for them
Don't use face a couple of captains if you go left? that sounds terrible actually
mighty valley
Basically trading an extra squad leader pack for double goliaths, and birds for stealthclaws
ish
rancid ember
Kill buggy pack you'll end with 78% at 2nd boss. You can skip to the normal pack and take prideful into 3rd boss and go back for the 6% before going up
rancid ember
15 almost had 16 last week but we wiped on 3rd boss somehow ๐ฆ
mighty valley
double goliaths with kicks and prideful does not sound that bad
but i haven't tried in a couple weeks, been going left
rancid ember
I run ALOT of Spires...
2 Kicks Each Goliath and they won't get another cast off with Prideful buff up and you'll usually have 15-20 seconds to help clean up the next pack too
pastel sleet
Got 207 BSS today after 33 DoSes
mighty valley
Nice!
limpid pawn
nice
scale is so good
what's strange though - is that in BFA a 2 minute cooldown was considered shit
like the trinket from maut was "bad"
and mummy bandages were also "bad"
but nzoth trinket w/ 1 minute is godlike
now denathrius trinket which is 1 minute - people are like "meh"
rancid ember
They were bad cause Psychic Shell set the bar way higher than those
pastel sleet
The benefit was lower
limpid pawn
and the scale is a 2 min CD but people love it
pastel sleet
Also vita and dragonscale were a lot of stats. And we didnt need much of a defensive addition. It was all about damage.
rancid ember
Kind the same Hakkar is just better than the Sire trinket. Sire trinket is dumb lol
rough needle
226 Scale > 220 vintage > 210 scale > 207 vintage imo...think cheat death is very good for other spot if running higher keys
rancid ember
I keep rolling Prot on my weekly chest and get no trinket. I run Phial 200 + Overwhelming crystal 203 haven't had good luck no trinkets ๐ฆ
limpid pawn
i used it like MAD while farming KSM
and it for sure kept me up, 207 sire trinket
now replaced w/ 210 scale
sick sentinel
I wanna give a big shout-out to @chilly brook โค๏ธ
Who made me go from this
To this
havent killed last 3 so far
sweet summit
๐ค
mighty valley
eh, made my peace with the fact that it's for someone that's Not Me a long time ago
echo egret
If a spell is listed as not reflectable in the spreadsheet, but does shadow damage, will spell reflect kick in and reduce the damage at least ? I'm thinking of the last ticks of that growing debuff from Lord Chamberlain
mighty valley
think so, yeah, it's flat magic DR% until it's consumed by a reflectable spell
echo egret
oki
prime edge
I need help selecting a trinket, Would you run With Stone Legion Heraldry, Anima Field Emitter or Dreadfire Vessel?
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/b44VNCFMBWas4fWA9GunGb
rancid ember
for what @prime edge M+ or Raid? Specific fight or?
prime edge
@rancid ember both actually m+ and raids
rancid ember
I'd probably only use Anima field in Raid and still would depend on the boss.
M+ I'd say Dread+Heraldry pretty much always. Anima field doesn't feel good in M+
coarse kestrel
what are the tricks to assessing my tank logs from raid? I just look at when the damage hits and whether I had active mit ready for it? tanked heroic inerva, 199 ilvl, spent the whole time thinking about mitigation did shit dps.
rancid ember
don't think so it's physical
modern brook
I run ALOT of Spires...
give us this day our daily spires
chilly brook
But you can literally just charge in
After you get knocked
So it's not like it's an actual problem
sweet summit
that got hitfixed
chilly brook
It's still moot
Because you just charge as soon as he hits the 3rd strike
๐
I mean maybe?
Theres a lot of time before massacre actually goes off
rancid ember
what are the tricks to assessing my tank logs from raid? I just look at when the...
She is one of the highest tank damage bosses, but that's also due to her tank buster mechanic. Just make sure you're using Spell Reflect to help smooth some damage from it. Other then that I'd just focus damage on her. Ideally you push her over the 25% intervals before the Cannister's hit 66% or they hopefully only get 1 cast at 66%
IP / Revenge dump depending on how it's going but damage is important on her
chilly brook
Yes but when the lines show up and when the mechanic happens theres a good amount of time
coarse kestrel
spell reflect is for the cannister dmg?
chilly brook
Is what I'm referring to
coarse kestrel
i just hit it (not as often as right off cooldown) thinking meh, maybe some of this is magical.
rancid ember
Spell reflect reduces magic dmg done by 20% for 5 seconds or w/e. Her tank buster mechanic that stacks is shadow damage
It's better to us SR on that then a cannister being open
chilly brook
SR is massive
chilly brook
Its vastly underused
coarse kestrel
ohhhhhhh thank you
chilly brook
People think it's only useful for if you can actually reflect
But it's a 20% dr for 5 seconds every 25 seconds on magic
rancid ember
Free DR is free DR
rancid ember
That was OP
chilly brook
You can still do it for the mob
The one that has the same exact debuff in the trash pack before her
rancid ember
The tanking mobs stackin thing?
chilly brook
Ye
The 2 pack on the left wall
One of them does the exact same ability she does
And you can still deflect it
pure sun
Does anyone here have a good ERT settup to track healer cds for me to call when I'm out of mitigation?
simple mural
Finally downed Normal with the guild last night.
simple mural
Someones gotta carry the guild. ๐
nimble drift
near shard
Is prot any fun/good in twisting corridors solo? Been doing it as arms but wanna switch it up
amber herald
near shard
sad
near shard
Yeah plenty of layers to at least try it out
rich ember
does condemn damage reduction stack?
rich ember
oh my god, thats amazing
woven trellis
i know we talked about it a lot
but i kinda feel scared to up my the wall legendary
since i mostly tank m+
i know its been said its preference
but u read everywhere thunderstorm is better
undone jacinth
it is going to reduce ur ability to do keys by literally 0
woven trellis
well
woven trellis
how is 20% less dmg twice by pack instead of one that negligible
undone jacinth
dude
there's so many answers
first of all you're not gonna get double up time ever, second wall gives you shield wall basically every other pack, which is better than whatever demo is doing for you
both add some nice smoothness because they both give you more rage
but the most meaningful part of a pull is the first 10-20 seconds, if you are in trouble after that you can just kite
deft bridge
how is 20% less dmg twice by pack instead of one that negligible
it's not 20 less, it0s 50 less
undone jacinth
if you get a demo refresh, its gonna come up when you're running out of blocks
etc etc
woven trellis
it's not 20 less, it0s 50 less
no i was talkin about demo legendary
undone jacinth
I dunno it's hard to explain without writing an essay, but neither of them is massively altering your chance of doing a key
woven trellis
ive been loving the wall dont get me wrong
but it doesnt feel like its that much up, maybe one time every 4 packs
deft bridge
I dunno it's hard to explain without writing an essay, but neither of them is ma...
otoh no legendary will allow you to complete keys where the dps do not interrupt or cc
woven trellis
well
undone jacinth
I mean
woven trellis
ive noticed something pretty important tho
being able to facetank as long as possible before kiting is helping my group to dps way better
it makes it easier
and help things like flamepatch or arrow rains
so i dont think maximizing my mitigation deciding which leggo is most useful
is such a bad idea
undone jacinth
and neither is massively changing how u do this
woven trellis
ye
actually
Shieldwall is massively changing it
for me
compared to before
cause the pack where i have it
gives it a very very nice window
undone jacinth
the highest keys ive seen done
woven trellis
but u may be right that thunderstorm isnt giving this opportunity
undone jacinth
are by a guy in china, pika, and a guy in korea
one was using signet
one was using reflect
one was using wall
not having TL is literally 0 draw back or negative drawback
woven trellis
well im no pika or korean player, im looking for the best things to help me, it can help me a lot without being necessary to the best ones
i dont have ego issues
heavy sail
TL is dope in keys, but honestly, warrior feels so shitty to me that I havenโt bothered pushing at all.
Not even just warrior itโs more M+ as a whole
deft bridge
that's what i was trying to say
heavy sail
Honeymoon phase of Shadowlands wearing off for me.
deft bridge
i think it's not that bad if you have a group of dependable people
but you can't carry people as tank anymore
specially on high keys
so your success depends on people who for basically all expansions have had 0 personal responsibility
heavy sail
When have you been able to carry people as a tank?
Itโs always been a collaborative effort at high levels of play
No point in BfA did I get the impression I was carrying lol
Not sure what game youโve been playing
deft bridge
Not sure what game youโve been playing
maybe im just salty at the pugs i've joined hehe
woven trellis
most of it require to be in melee with packs tho
honest echo
You guys have any good macros that you use faithfully?
honest echo
oh...gotcha
deft bridge
You guys have any good macros that you use faithfully?
i try to chain the troll berserker ability to another cooldown
i have it on avatar i think
honest echo
i try to chain the troll berserker ability to another cooldown
Thats what i was planning on doing. I was wondering if people saw it as a waste of time.
heavy sail
I use a macro to intervene allies and charge enemies with one button
Thatโs pretty much it, donโt see the need for much else
Unless you just prefer mouse over
deft bridge
mouseover intervene sounds like a nightmare on raids hehe
honest echo
Thatโs pretty much it, donโt see the need for much else
Thats another thought I had. Is mouseover better for tanking?
heavy sail
Not really imo
deft bridge
depends on the ability, i have mouseover taunt
simple mural
/cast [target=mouseover,help,exists,nodead]Intervene;[noexists] Heroic Leap
/cast [target=target,harm,exists,nodead]Charge;[noexists] Heroic Leap```
```#showtooltip
/cast [@player] Ravager```
```#showtooltip
/cast [@player] Spear of Bastion```
```#showtooltip
/use [button:1] Phial of Serenity; [button:2] Healthstone;```
Those are the ones I mainly use.Thanks guys ๐
undone jacinth
well im no pika or korean player, im looking for the best things to help me, it ...
TL is not the thing that's going to help you
invest all the time you are thinking about TL in to looking at mobs and routes in MDT
and that will help you infinitely more
but also, if you think TL is the best, just craft it anyway
regal nest
Sludgefist roar damage is reduced by spell reflect?
regal nest
That's why im asking
mighty valley
Tanknotes is saying the fight is 100% physical, could be wrong but it seems like spell reflect does nothing the whole fight
mighty valley
sludgefist roar tooltip calls it sonic damage too
undone jacinth
yea its definitely physical
u can just see logs of cloth wearers on that fight
getting rekt
patent osprey
well im no pika or korean player, im looking for the best things to help me, it ...
/wave
copper spire
Hi everyone. I have a question what maybe sounds stupid to you, but...
ocean bloom
for mythic sunking would you reccomend roar or booming? trying to figure out whats the best for the cloaks
undone jacinth
its going to make very little difference @ocean bloom
copper spire
This is in portuguese.
Aceleraรงรฃo = hastes
Maestria = Mastery
Is that really mastery better on this case ?!
I rather choose haste -> versa -> mastery.
Now the pawn makes me confuse...
heavy sail
BV is probably more valuable.
undone jacinth
the pawn addon is based on a simple dps formula @copper spire - you never want to use it
mastery does more dps so it will always win
heavy sail
Haste isnโt just a modification to your DPS
It has equal defensive value
Which canโt be simmed for
copper spire
Thank you.
Got it. Ty so much for your help. I'll ignore this addon.
I almost trapped in this addon.
heavy sail
Stick to simcraft and raidbots for gear evaluations.
undone jacinth
not really
just stick to your knowledge
unless you wanna find out what trinket does the most damage or something
heavy sail
Assuming your knowledge doesnโt automatically grant you the capability to know which item does the most DPS
Exactly
ocean bloom
also simming helps give you knowledge over time
undone jacinth
i mean its really not complicated
if it has mastery it does more dps
and you never drop haste regardless
tank gearing is not complicated
copper spire
Got it. I install simcraft recently but I dont used it till now.
Its time to learn how use it properly.
ocean bloom
its better to learn raidbots it has so many very useful features
its basically simcraft on the cloud
heavy sail
You can use the addon to fetch metadata that you plug into raidbots, makes it quick and easy to evaluate different gear sets
Anyway youโll figure it out quick itโs not complex
And what dolphin said is generally true
copper spire
I guess it's not.
I'm making a hibrid gearing taking some gears from non-ranked-pvp that gave me a lot of versa and haste stats.
But getting closer to 200 il that is beeing more delicated to make good chooses.
I'll get a good learning of simcraft and raidbots, and obviosly, counting on you for more help.
sick sentinel
how does DK compare to warrior for m+ righ now
copper spire
Ty so much for you help and time!
undone jacinth
probably about the same yogi
heavy sail
Iโm not sure
heavy sail
I think Unholy still does more raw dps
heavy sail
But tbh Iโve never played with another melee in anything approaching high keys to know that
Oh shid
Iโm slow
heavy sail
Oh well then my answer is all of a sudden more relevant
undone jacinth
fury and arms are actually surprisingly good in m+
heavy sail
Yup
undone jacinth
but unholy is overtuned rn
undone jacinth
rally is also surprisingly good but death grip is the best spell in all of m+
sick sentinel
im too dumb to play UH, i don't understand it haha
i don't mind blood or frost,, but i know frost is kinda bad and i think blood is meh
heavy sail
Fury is pretty close to top-tier in M+ in terms of just raw damage output
undone jacinth
frost is always better than people think
heavy sail
So youโll do just fine if thatโs what you want to do
undone jacinth
its just not as good as unholy
heavy sail
Community perception is always the biggest hinderance
copper spire
fury and arms are actually surprisingly good in m+
I think warrior arms are dealing more dps than fury. As dps I ever played fury (on pvp, on pve I'm ever tanking). But in SL I changed to arms and I could deal more damage as arms.
sick sentinel
i think alot of the problem with frost is you can go DW so thats 2 weapons to get, sort of like how we have to get shield also
heavy sail
Arms does more damage in CN, fury is a solid gap ahead in m+
Fury is just king of trash
sick sentinel
shit weapon, gunna have a shittier time
undone jacinth
i'm sure you would be fine with a 2h
it might not be ideal but the most important thing is that you play whatever you are playing well, not being perfectly optimised
heavy sail
Iโm not even sure if arms is definitely ahead in CN anymore either I havenโt checked it since the 8% buff
Theyโre probably about equal
undone jacinth
they are basically the same now
sick sentinel
what i enjoy and whats viable are seperate
sick sentinel
but i took a serious approach to tank class
heavy sail
Non-viable to me is like playing Prot Pally in classic
Thereโs nothing like that in retail
mighty valley
i will only accept classic balance - warrior only tank and best dps
quartz briar
If I'm rerolling prot as my guild progs into mythic. I'll need to push keys for loot early. Would thunderlord be better to build as an allaround over the Wall for raiding in particular
heavy sail
No
quartz briar
So just go Wall
sick sentinel
quartz briar
gotcha
heavy sail
Thunderlords is strictly a M+ upgrade
sick sentinel
i am not the only one who has embraced the warrior tank life
heavy sail
All the value is immediately lost when tanking 1 target
quartz briar
Our Warrior dps is going windwalker so we need a battle shout
heavy sail
Makes sense
quartz briar
At least prot is fun lol, more exciting than blood imo
heavy sail
Prot warrior is super durable in CN itโs a great raid tier for the spec
Youโll enjoy it
sick sentinel
yeah, TL on a m+ boss (no adds) you are just wasting GCD's on TC
quartz briar
oh interesting, so in single target get rid of TC entirely
sick sentinel
still get the 1.5, but you could opt to use something better
heavy sail
TC/Slam on cooldown, revenge rage permitting and defensives when necessary
mighty valley
if you're trying to speed-gear for raid, yeah, wall is a no-brainer for where to put all your ash
heavy sail
The main idea is to keep shield block up as much as possible and especially at the correct times.
Using other defensives liberally to fill any gaps
quartz briar
Yeah I've kinda just been filling in ignore pain whenever shield block is recharging and making sure I have rage to block when it comes up
or saving a charge for a big hit like the mutilates on Stitchflesh trash
heavy sail
Then youโre already better than most Prot warriors 
sick sentinel
yeah, if you are going to take magical damage what i try to do is SR and IP, wall if you need it got it
because you get 20% MR while SR is active, so it's enough to make dots or bombs bit more managable
it wont save you from 1 shot, but it will save your HP when you need it
modern brook
Then youโre already better than most Prot warriors <a:keksquad:76669059863504489...
This only hurts cause its true
sturdy trench
guys any kyrian warr can give me a number crunch on % of SOB dmg on warrs total damage?
im getting almost 30% of my dmg as condemn as venthyr
lofty widget
10-15 %
astral crystal
anyone else having connection issues?
outer solstice
@sturdy trench keep in mind others also have execute damage, condemn damage is not the whole story
sturdy trench
thats true, but condemn also prevents dmg taken so it feels better to use than execute
on my overall healing it also accounts for about 30%
outer solstice
do you have a fight you want to compare?
I can send you my logs before I head to bed, so you can compare the rage usage
sturdy trench
sure
outer solstice
that's from today
watch out it#s logged in german
but you should be able to decypher
sturdy trench
das ist ja kein problem
outer solstice
das ist ja kein problem
gn8
sturdy trench
good night
frozen fern
!WA
last gazelle
Is there a list of abilities you can spell reflect for dungeons/raid. Couldnt find it in pins
waxen cradle
its there in the pins https://tinyurl.com/ReflectGuide
cinder nova
Doing a +15 DoS
Death Speaker packs are blow the CDs and pray?
Any cheeky LOS spots to abuse or nah
carmine ore
hey, are there any streamers that play prot streaming 15-20 keys consistently?
tacit smelt
@cinder nova make sure your group interrupts shadowcore, thats the tank bust ability of that pack
kindred warren
Wtf....
Did I just join
100g fine for each missing enchant...
100g fine for wrong stat gear
If your late coming back from a โbreakโ in raid 100g fine
Keep in mind this guild is 1/10 HC
cinder nova
What a meme
100g is like
Nothing, but still
That's some goofy shit
Low-end raiders pretending to be top-end super serious top 100 guilds is cringe gold
Tell em "For every fight you haven't cleared on H or M it's 1000g"
silver trout
@kindred warren what DID you join?!
hollow cove
I'm trinket poor right now. Been using Viscera 184 & PvP Haste Trinket 184
Just got Anima Field Emitter 200 to drop
Do I replace the PvP Haste since Viscera has Str?
kindred warren
@silver trout some normal raiding guild on my server so I wouldnโt have to bother with pugging but this is so try hard cringe tho
visual drift
Haste 26 and 15 vers or haste 24 and 16 vers?
patent zealot
Lol 100g fines LOL
mighty valley
@visual drift the first one, both more total stats and more haste which is generally the best stat
what are these choices?
visual drift
not sure atm since im not logged in
But it was ring
pvp ring 207 vs 197 dos ring from muezala
crude whale
yall will love this, just did twisting layer 8, had two dps bitch for the first 7 layers about my wifes dps and also both of these dps died and i shit you not, 10 times to the golum aoes
i told them to ether stfu or get out cause we dont need you
both left, we then 3 maned the rest
all three of us linked the acivment to both of them lol
we be petty af lol
fuck these types of people man
lavish hare
@carmine ore i like Sense, from Nurfed, US i believe. Nice vids on prot high level keys
crude whale
just found him recently and i enjoy it a lot, very informative
sterile moss
Is it a dps issue to have prideful consistently reach 20 stacks in a 14 key?
Or is that to be expected?
old flame
Any tips y getting a weapon upgrade? We full clear normal and no token so far. I've got a 187 from the campaign.
Probably doing some more mythics tomorrow but not expecting anything with the low % of drops
cinder nova
Any tips y getting a weapon upgrade? We full clear normal and no token so far. I...
PVP.
You can get a 207 just by capping.
Better if you actually get higher rating.
lavish hare
Probably doing some more mythics tomorrow but not expecting anything with the lo...
I got a toke from Denathrius on weekly vault
Token
old flame
Regular Bgs?
mighty valley
plus weekly pvp quests
old flame
Okay thanks. I thought tokens would make things easier but these drop rates suck. Honestly would be fine if we weren't running 20+
lyric nest
idk where to really post this but, i have a community for m+ people to do 10-16 keys give or take some levels depending who you invite but it's only good players that are chill so no ragers it's on NA horde if any1 is interested, plenty of good dps and healers but i'm a tank so idk where to get other tanks to join it lol
lavish hare
So next week weโll be farmin dailies and Nathria only? No Mythic +... Tyranical, Bolstering and Necrotic! ๐คฃ๐คฃ๐คฃ
lyric nest
ah ok ty, i'll go post there
sacred finch
so i play on a realm called daggerspine how do i find people on here who play on that same realm?
echo egret
Anyone who can give me tips for handling the last room of HoA (souls, inquisitor Sigar) on 12ish fortified keys ?
lyric nest
get aggro of him and ignore him and focus all the little things
throw your kick on him when you can and just aoe down the little mobs so he doesn't keep doing his heal
mellow patio
Donโt stand in bad
warped cobalt
Is there any specific reason prot warrior wouldnt be able to hold threat when tanking with a prot paladin
ocean bloom
ashen hallow slaps?
remote dawn
what you guys go for m+ pelagos or kleia?
sweet summit
Pelagos
rich ember
draven is the clear option for venthyr right?
rich ember
I use nadja for raiding, since i main fury. I use draven for prot which i prefer for M+
I'm just now getting into 10+ after getting all keys to +9
jagged pier
@sweet summit I'm coming for you 
rich ember
wow you can reduce shockwave CD to 18 sec. That's nuts.
strong forum
KUNGEN!!
sweet summit
O ya i might have to do some keys ty for reminder
heady ivy
Yesterday I did a NW run with 2 DH as dps and on a lot of pulls I kept loosing aggro on mobs right at the opener. Is this because Iโm doing the opener wrong or something? I logged the run but I dont really know what to look at in the logs to improve: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/xDwJKW7dXVjH4k3q#fight=last&type=summary&start=0&end=2240809
jagged pier
O ya i might have to do some keys ty for reminder
stupid ez this week, pugged most of my 15s so far including SD and got that in time XD
heady ivy
I know I am probably not doing the rotation correctly but the opener I think is just charge and get aggro of all mobs with tclap and revenge
jagged pier
dhs do like to eyebeam at 0.1 secs into a fight
that will be a factor
that being said tho u did cast about double the amounts of IPs than revenges
heady ivy
Yeah I am still getting used to the rotation for prot, basically you choose between IP and revenge depending on if you are taking a lot of damage or not right?
jagged pier
yes and no, its hard to tell but you might have mis managed your SB a little bit as you blocked less melees than you receveied
and you arent using bolster correctly took you 10mins to cast LS
damage comes after you defensive correctly
heady ivy
So shield block when getting autoattacked and last stand just use it if you are getting attacked and do not have sb?
Even if you do not need the hp
Thanks for the help btw
strong forum
Maybe I'll go for KSM this week
heady ivy
yes and no, its hard to tell but you might have mis managed your SB a little bit...
Where can you see this in the logs?
strong forum
|| JK lmao I ain't doing more keys than 4 ||
jagged pier
So shield block when getting autoattacked and last stand just use it if you are ...
if you run bolster you use it when u dont have sb charges
or at the start of a pull
so u dont need to spend rage on sb
and can revenge
jagged pier
Where can you see this in the logs?
what do u want to see in logs which part?
heady ivy
How many AA I blocked vs received full damage
jagged pier
np
strong forum
Hymnal ๐
jagged pier
i dont know if its better than herald or vintage tho
strong forum
Herald has mainstat and is basically 2% vers
So if hymnal did 2% or less of your total damage, herald would do more
jagged pier
i mean it did do more than 2% but my overall kind of stayed the same
but then again it was like my 4th spires
so dont really know how the dungeon works yet
jagged pier
i know but it helps me to know when its okay to revenge spam
wish a logged it tho XD, but was like will just do a quick key in the morning to try hymnal out
ornate magnet
the wait is overrr. after running dos 16 times, finally got scale ๐ ๐ ๐
jagged pier
lucky you
ebon hound
Can't wait to re-farm Scale every tier ๐คก
round star
Canโt wait to get my first 
zealous saddle
Can I start to pug m+10 with 206ilvl? (Ofc depends alot on the other players aswell, just woundering if there is a recomended ilvl)
undone jacinth
Yea
heavy sail
Yeah, pretty easily.
stoic mural
Hey guys, i need help. I think i use my SB like Ignore pain too many times. I think i'm getting wrong. Any tips/reminders to stop this bad habit?
heavy sail
Itโs okay to be overzealous with it when youโre learning the spec and feeling out different forms of content. Itโs never ideal to not have it when you need it, but for the sake of just learning the content itโs okay.
Now the only tip I really have is just applying the knowledge that you get from fucking up
Like was there a moment you felt like you didnโt have it that was particularly impactful?
Remember that moment and time your cooldowns properly the next go around
Enemy mobs obviously have different casts and abilities that are more impactful than others and you should learn their names, when they cast them, and what your response should be
When youโre armed with that knowledge you wonโt be casting SB carelessly
jagged pier
i have sire + stone legion
they are both really good trinkets scale is also really good
stoic mural
True. These days i struggle to focus on my own because my mates (irl friends) are unable to clear a +8 without big mistakes which isnt right with their 205 iLvL so i use my rotation mindlessly and check their positionning, ask for kicks 5 times in a row and so on.. ^^
jagged pier
Hey guys, i need help. I think i use my SB like Ignore pain too many times. I th...
any logs?
heavy sail
Logs would be helpful
stoic mural
I have no logs in MM+ with Warcraft logs. I think i need to dl this
heavy sail
If youโve pug raided thereโs a chance someone else logged it
jagged pier
please do its alot more helpful than saying i think
stoic mural
SB works very well on melee packs ofc. And i found a huge diffรฉrence using it on Bosses spells too btw. Warriors are tryharders count on me. Blood will spill :p
Yeah got raid logs but no dungeons
Atm i try to keep 1 stack in case of emergency, ignore pain constantly and i try to dissociate the 2 spells depending on the situations and packs
heavy sail
The cooldown should be kept rolling to some extent, like itโs not really necessary to keep one โin case of an emergencyโ โ if you know the content, there isnโt such a thing.
the tempo and play that you set as a tank determines if thereโs an emergency
stoic mural
K so i dont need to be "stingy"
jagged pier
nope you should and definatly not if your running bolster
heavy sail
Like, Iโll put it this way, if your primary concern is overuse the solution isnโt to underuse itโs just to be more cognizant of what constitutes a good use of the spell.
And I could do a better job of illustrating that with logs of course
Say youโre on the tail end of a pull with one melee mob in execute range, thatโs probably a scenario where itโs not worthwhile to press it just for the sake of pressing it
Youโre at no risk and wonโt be losing much if any health
jagged pier
where are your raid logs?
stoic mural
Ahaha yeah !! Im happy now :p i was right but i used to doubt my gameplay to go further. Guess it was fine anyway. Lets train more and more
Lemme link it
Laststand is priceless yup
heavy sail
It's fairly intuitive gameplay, really. Hard to say for certain if there's a big problem without logs. Curious to see them.
jagged pier
right well from your logs u arent using sb correctly
only 49% of hits blocked on sludge
stoic mural
I find tanks is all about knowledge
jagged pier
yer on all fights you are less than 50% blocked hits
on your normal sire progess you only blocked 12%
stoic mural
We didnt clear Denathrius. We do it tonight. It was a test to check phase 1 before raid off. Dont check it :p
jagged pier
u need to be on pc or in desktop view on phone
stoic mural
But okay that explains why i felt taking too much dmg yesterdayt on MM+
I start being pro agressive over defensive i guess
neat dirge
@jagged pier how much should i be blocking
melee hits from sludge?
i seem to average around 64-65%
jagged pier
from your logs you arent playing defensivly correctly @stoic mural
heavy sail
11% on SLG as well
jagged pier
i seem to average around 64-65%
thats okay you want more blocked than not
once you have a lot of knowledge of the fight you can get really high
jagged pier
on artifcier on a few pulls as we are still progressing i was getting close to 80%
neat dirge
but i want to improve
jagged pier
well sludge is a very easy fight
neat dirge
sludge heroic
jagged pier
like is a script
neat dirge
hes fun
jagged pier
you know he casting x and a certain point
stoic mural
And you are right @jagged pier . These weeks i tend to be more agressive thinking my dps need backup. But yesterday i found myself in a bad situation
neat dirge
jakey can i see ur logs?
jagged pier
i wouldnt see mine i go for logs
neat dirge
wat
jagged pier
last kill of sludge hc i completely fuked up
the rotation but with my gear i took like no damage
stoic mural
So i need to have SB uptime as much as possible in a fight ?
jagged pier
when tanking yes
stoic mural
When i swap or hungering for instance i keep them ofc? Or use them to increase shield dmg
jagged pier
you only use one for damage if u have enough time
heavy sail
Important to keep in mind also, that this is also hyper focused in a raid setting. Like we're looking at it under a microscope to say there's something that can be done better but the most important thing is clearing the content. You'll see other top-tier logs from time to time where it looks like they spend their rage at a much higher volume on DPS cooldowns
A la condemn or revenge
but yes, ultimately you could be using your defensive CDs better
stoic mural
Thanks a lot mates. I dont Know how to read logs properly (came back in wow since 8.3 release and learned tanking there. SL is my first true tanking expรฉrience)
True, but i need to be ready for HM since dmg wont be the same
frail wyvern
I found that early days on a boss i had to play defensively but once you get more gear and the boss is a 1 shot every week, you can afford to be more aggressive and try for dps logs
stoic mural
And i love to improve. Mastering my class is the key
jagged pier
as i said i fuked up on sludgefist and took a load of unmitigated damage but my gear is pretty high now it really didnt matter at all
ebon hound
Thanks a lot mates. I dont Know how to read logs properly (came back in wow sinc...
Focus on swapping the percentages of Blocked Hit and Hit here (:
stoic mural
I will apply this on raid session tonight
heavy sail
something that I found myself doing a few times during prog, was instinctively pressing SB despite a taunt swap having happened
and that would leave me without it for small gaps of time whenever I regained control
stoic mural
You really helped me :P needed that
heavy sail
That's not relevant to your M+ concern, but it's something to think about at least
heavy sail
KSM when @strong forum
outer solstice
What boss?
strong forum
Nice padding
jagged pier
but it should be pink
strong forum
Yeah getting top 10 ranks
jagged pier
not my problem
strong forum
But it not being 99 is cringe
jagged pier
healers slwo so had 2 vanquishers up at the end
strong forum
Prolly ain't going for KSM unless literally entire group has only NW / DoS @heavy sail
jagged pier
and i basically solo tank the fight
frail wyvern
Pad harder next time
jagged pier
as our ret goes prot to heal
strong forum
Bruh I feel like I'm beyond unsafe in p3 with a vanquisher up
strong forum
Ah yes bubble works ofc on that bleed
jagged pier
but the dot from the shade hurts like hell
stoic mural
Btw, Into the fray or Ravager ? Into the fray seems really strong
stoic mural
And i suppose conduits are very subjective according to your needs ? I try 3 dรฉfensive conduits atm. Heal from deep wounds (i feel its irrelevant when i check details), last stand rage gรฉnรฉration and ignore pain buff with dmg
jagged pier
heal from deep wounds is trash
frail wyvern
Deep wounds heal is garbage
frail wyvern
Works especially well with the wall in m+, if you are running that
And anger management
carmine ore
<@247180251258552321> i like Sense, from Nurfed, US i believe. Nice vids on prot...
thanks ill check it out
keen yacht
Sup, is venthyr prot warrior viable for mythic raid?
We want to change tanks in our group and since I'm venthyr dps I wonder if changing covenant is really a must
keen yacht
Also, if I choose to change covenant, what happens to my companions?
All are lost and I have to find them and lvl again?
undone jacinth
You do yeah
frail wyvern
Sup, is venthyr prot warrior viable for mythic raid?
I'm Venthyr prot and its great. Condemn is around 70% as effective as ignore pain so during condemn windows just keep SB up and spam SS and Condemn ๐
rich ember
I LOVE venthyr as prot
door of shadows for 15% hp as shield is extremely strong
Unbreakable Body is also pretty great for progression kek
(-50% durability loss on death)
frail wyvern
I am yet to try Draven, do you prefer it to the others?
rich ember
other covenants?
rich ember
oh yeah for sure. Nadja is aight, not really a reason to take theotar unless you want free beer.
frail wyvern
Lol yeah I've stuck with Nadja so far, might try draven out soon, just sucks waiting for the extra conduit slots to unlock
rich ember
as it stands you get more bang for your buck with draven in conduits since you arent forced into a finesse choice unless you prefer Disturb the Peace like me
then again warriors in general are blessed with some amazing conduit choices for finesse.
frail wyvern
That was my big put off on draven, finesse conduits are really bad for us (raiding) except the rally one. I will use disturb the peace for m+ though
vernal scaffold
I switched from Kyrian to Venthyr and I don't regret it. Kyrian is a much stronger choice for M+ but I liked nothing about their convenant.
It's just a shame that the conduit for condemn is just bad for prot warrior
heavy sail
Multi-specโing in shadowlands is just a joke
Covenants and legendaries make sure of that
jagged pier
its fuking dumb cant do pvp for a week cause i dont have the conduit energy ๐
jagged pier
no u need the impactful choice
but i cant be a kyrain arms warrior for pv and prot because they use the same soulbind
so i have to be sub par at one of them
that logic just dont work
blazing condor
do we have a haste cap now? or just try and stack it with vers
jagged pier
not one that reachable
strong forum
stop worrying about vers
If you ain't 226 in every slot, all you care about is ilvl > haste
technically you may or may not start investing less into haste once you have 39% haste
Because at 40% the 20% stat tax sets in
Meaning for ever 10 haste you equip after 39% you actually only get 8
blazing condor
๐ ๐ i aint worried bout vers
was just curious if there was a cap
didnt formulate it well
echo egret
HOA pack with 3 gargons 2 shooters, fortified +12ish - do you ask for CC on the hutners or don't bother ?
ionic fern
You can.
But you usually don't need to.
Just charge in, dish out damage, reset bleeds if you have the abilities (kyrian potion/dwarf form) and stay in more or leap out and kite.
echo egret
ok thanks
(and I have failed timer because of not pulling enough together, so that's why I'm not keen on CCing)
Another question about HoA : thse two gargoyles that activate alternatively on the stairs to 3rd boss... it feels a bit inconsistent, sometimes they're just both active and don't change - any way to trigger it ?
ionic fern
Not sure.
People usually just stealth past them with invis pots/shroud.
echo egret
not in the pugs I've ended up with ๐
echo egret
the thing is , my route pulls one of them to get pride just before 3rd boss in ideal placement
but if both are active, they're linked
sweet summit
Another question about HoA : thse two gargoyles that activate alternatively on t...
Timer based
young glen
We were able to reproduce a bug with Wicked Blade at Stone Legions. Animation is over and four people standing on the other side of the boss are getting a laceration debuff without any visible source of being hit.
glass vector
I was checking some prot warriors who done higher keys as I felt like I couldn't manage the 15+keys. I saw that alot of them just go pure versatility. Meaning 8% haste and 30% vers. I always thought haste was our go to secondary?
ionic fern
Highest itemlevel is what you follow.
If it happens to have vers on it, you use it.
echo egret
@sweet summit What do you mean timer based ? if both are active at the same time I should just wait until the "they alternate"-cycle starts again ?
sweet summit
From my experience yeah
strong forum
I was checking some prot warriors who done higher keys as I felt like I couldn't...
Pretty sure that's just cuz they're full pvp gear and highest ilvl
echo egret
okay I totally didn't know that
strong forum
Ykno
Haste is absolutely our go-to stat even more than in bfa.
But before haste ilvl is even more important
sweet summit
How was legion statwise
sweet summit
Epic
glass vector
I just found it so strange that I had so little vers in comparison to the prot warriors who did high end keys
But thanks for the feedback!
strong forum
I wouldn't call anything below 19 high end
But yeh, you don't need vers
At all
90%+ of your success comes from ilvl, proper play and a good group
Not from your choice of secondary stats
signal plover
We also can't juice vers like at the end of BFA
And I feel like some ppl still look at it through those goggles
strong forum
I'd wager that if naowh would have a max geard pwar, he'd be able to get atleast top 10 rio World
With his group
undone jacinth
Heโs not even top 10 now lol
outer solstice
Pretty sure that's just cuz they're full pvp gear and highest ilvl
there's a lot of haste on PvP gear though
sweet summit
Cos theyre doing mdi lol
charred ivy
is there any good prot warrior guide on YT? m+ specially
outer solstice
i'd say any tank guide work for individual M+ dungeons
uneven mason
is the vers meme trying to come back?
uneven mason
It makes me sad
strong forum
It makes me mad
strong forum
is there any good prot warrior guide on YT? m+ specially
Na, not tank spec specific ones
strong forum
No
undone jacinth
0
strong forum
12% cuz I wear 4 pvp pieces
undone jacinth
Iโm not a pussy
outer solstice
yeah haste OP
strong forum
Petition to ban the word "vers"
outer solstice
replace with pussystat?
sick sentinel
i think if i drop ilvl 1 or 2 poiints i get 22% haste or a bit more
i can't remember, got the crit mastery gear again
outer solstice
how comes it's so low for y'all ? you have many pieces without haste?
no sockets?
sick sentinel
or, feels like its what i get, sometimes
hasty quest
I have 25 haste and 21 versa, should I stack haste than?
sick sentinel
when it comes to weapon and shield it is 99.9% go with ilvl even if stats are dog shit
strong forum
100% even!
sick sentinel
because they have actual meaningful ties to your threat/damage, and survivability
uneven mason
Its mostly because armor > 2ndaries and str = armor
so we double dip on that "ilvl > all" but for necks and rings
strong forum
Well and Str >> secondaries
sick sentinel
when we are full BIS im sure we'll know exactly how much of everything is "ideal"
outer solstice
I have 25 haste and 21 versa, should I stack haste than?
27/17 here ๐ but yeah if you can bump your haste without loosing ilvl it's probably always worth it
uneven mason
I have 25 haste and 21 versa, should I stack haste than?
Incase you missed it and are one of those folks downgrading by 10ilvls to maintain haste.
You wear whatever has the highest ilvl, chances are even on rings and necks
wraith root
hi, i use mythic dungeon tools as tank. its possible to show my position on mythic tools map?
sweet summit
hi, i use mythic dungeon tools as tank. its possible to show my position on myth...
Nope
Its a planning addon
sick sentinel
i wish MDT could show patrol in real time
make life so much easier for me describing packs we need to pull
uneven mason
we can't even get healing numbers over peoples heads anymore, and you want satellite imagery?
wraith root
and automark the mobs ? im new in this game and sometimes bit confused when i have no time -.-
sweet summit
Theres auto marker addons
uneven mason
DBM does automarking IDK if MDT does it too
sick sentinel
to be completely honest, i just want to see a plain old dungeon tools addon that covers everything
sick sentinel
and merges itself with bigwigs/dbm
wraith root
oh ok. dont have dbm or bigwigs. will check this addon
sick sentinel
all the old dungeons and new, because the journal does an okay job of telling you what the bosses do, but it doesn't give you a clue what the trash is like if you haven't been there
lusty marsh
Finally awake after progging council/sludge/generals
I'm almost done with heroic woooo
Frieda last is the best.
outer solstice
yeah frieda last is a joke
sweet summit
We do frieda first ๐
outer solstice
Finally awake after progging council/sludge/generals
I'm almost done with heroic...
you have the most fun boss still up ๐ I like denathrius
which one you do last?
strong forum
Niklau prolly
frail wyvern
We did frieda first on week 1 and 2, I think with stavros last and swapping them around is waaaaay easier
outer solstice
yeah the only real thing is you have to sell ppl to not kill adds after stavros is down
until niklaus is down too
lusty marsh
We can't leave stab for last, my dps are mongo's who can't dance to dark recital.
So we never have the damage for fools
outer solstice
yeah, also melees dying to the lunge
lusty marsh
We always turn out the lunge