really? that bad
#protection
sweet summit
whats up
draven is the best tank soulbind
period
if you look away from the ability
wild sandal
u mean this ability?
sweet summit
that one+hold your ground as well (untill you need to kite A LOT)
modern brook
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3PovgcSURx88t4xeydDEtj
i wouldnt argue that sim from a dps perspective -> 1) its a 55ilvl difference between your hymnal and spike 2) the sim is always doing the overheal damage on spike
uneven mason
TBH the haste from najida and the DR from the garg dude are very nice
sweet summit
hymnal is good, but the ilvl difference is yuge there
modern brook
everywhere else I'd rather have a gooda bility+ combat med
uneven mason
Draven is also just amazing
its like having a mini WoTN
but his other binds are pretty "meh"
hazy fern
So venthry is better then kurgan for raiding?
uneven mason
no
sweet summit
no
outer solstice
ty Erga, I suspected as much
uneven mason
but if you are venthyr
hazy fern
So kyrian is best for raiding ?
uneven mason
Kyrian or NF
modern brook
outer solstice
and some more mobility
hazy fern
Ok
silver trout
I've been very strongly considering rerolling night fae
buuutttt I kinda like the condem prot warrior playstyle
sweet summit
ye i also like not having a covenant ability 
shell fox
silver trout
I mea, I spam the crap out of it when I can, 😂
lime urchin
The raid team wants me to play dps and back up tonk every now and then. My focus is mostly m+, but I have been switching conduits a bit too much.. I am thinking on using Pelagos for my fury adventures in raid and Kleia for the m+ tonking, and switch both when Kleia is maxed out with Renown
agile holly
i tank with a DH mythic N and he consistently pulls more aggro than me is this normal?
outer solstice
btw, is there an absolut BiS list including all sources of gear?
@agile holly it should not be massive, but do you have hunters maybe that MD him all the time?
outer solstice
yeah I only always see raid drop lists, but that's like 50% of the picture
guess I have to go at it myself
sweet summit
bis would be like highest ilvl possible with high haste
outer solstice
yeah but where do these pieces drop?
warm thunder
Which souldbinds would you take for Venthyr?
outer solstice
draven
sweet summit
im using draven
warm thunder
alright
sweet summit
nadjia is also good
outer solstice
like the BoE bracers vs huntsman bracers vs PvP bracers,....
sweet summit
since one extra conduit
lavish oracle
@agile holly DH does more damage than us so yeah, that's normal
Shouldn't normally be ripping threat from you though
If that's the case it's a problem
outer solstice
the dmg ceilign for venegeance DH is lower than for us btw
but we have to decide weather to put rage in offense or defense
simple mural
i tank with a DH mythic N and he consistently pulls more aggro than me is this n...
DH do more dps than us, but if you're poping off cooldowns on the bigger pulls it shouldn't be that noticable. I tend to top dps in aoe burst windows for my raid.
sweet summit
id do middle at bottom tbh
duelist is good for raid dps on most fights
but doesnt do anything else
warm thunder
I see
outer solstice
@simple mural what sources is that?
lavish oracle
Warcraft logs @outer solstice
sweet summit
but im pretty sure exac prep is better
simple mural
<@!227224551707246592> what sources is that?
outer solstice
ah yeah, so actual DPS
sweet summit
yes
uneven mason
the dmg ceilign for venegeance DH is lower than for us btw
The primary benefit of DH is being able to deal almost all of its dmg at 40 feet.
Its the ranged tank Warlocks always wanted to be.
outer solstice
yeah, so practical DPS is higher
lavish oracle
How is guardian doing so much damage? Damn
outer solstice
offtank catweaving?
lavish oracle
Oh, probably, or owl weaving
lusty ember
destructive reverb vs show of force for potency conduit?
agile holly
ok he doesnt rip threat immediately but throughout fights i make sure to do extra taunts if im tanking same target for awhile
lavish oracle
Definitely not show of force
outer solstice
and yeah show of force is super underwhelming
agile holly
ty for answers all
lusty ember
okay cool. why would i use niya over dreamweaver?
lavish oracle
The dreamweaver pod also drops threat which can make it kinda awkward for tanks
outer solstice
also prevents a CR for 10 seconds
chilly brook
Niya is goat
outer solstice
as you can#t cancel it
chilly brook
Straight big pumper
lusty ember
thanks so much for the thoughts guys
gonna make the swap for now see how i go without pod
outer solstice
with the last line niya get's even crazier
lusty ember
i use it a lot with earth ele in keys
outer solstice
yeah pod is better for keys than for raid tbh
but the extra dmg niya provides is probably worth more
lusty ember
i assume burrs > poison for the last tier when that's available
lusty ember
it certainly looks it
outer solstice
also unnverving focus is a potency conduit in disguise
lusty ember
i have been enjoying it a lot
nimble drift
I love the prot channel. So much of what we talk about is just general complaints or things that have happened in our guild or pugs. It's like a little community
lavish oracle
I wish I could go burrs but sadly I'm a pelagos boi :c
outer solstice
lusty ember
this is the most helpful place on the internet
outer solstice
noone knows
nimble drift
I'm excited to see what comes with the next raid
lavish oracle
We getting announcements in Feb with the virtual blizzcon?
outer solstice
we'll see
chilly brook
Burrs is almost the same DPS increase as the mastery from the initial row
From just single target sims
limpid pawn
Jesus prot pally is squishy as duck
I was taking care of all my alts yesterday with keys from 12-15
Prot pally seems like the worst one
strong forum
Defensively, yes
modern brook
DH do more dps than us, but if you're poping off cooldowns on the bigger pulls i...
how much of that is ashen hallow?
modern brook
:^)
deft bridge
my dh cotank is parsing 15 on some fights and still gets more damage out than me on my best parses ;-;
uneven mason
So in phase 2 we getting new legendaries or what
I'm content with the wall, if they'd like to give us some conduits that were not obvious garbage afterthoughts "Oh we have to give warriors something" I'd be real happy.
steady spruce
What is SLG?
signal plover
Sexy Little Gnomes
steady spruce
oh nice
signal plover
Also stone legion generals
steady spruce
not nice
signal plover
nods
strong forum
Tfw you get 99s and cotank parses 80 but you rip aggro on shriek so you get all the mechanics but don't actively tank
uneven mason
with a paladin right?
strong forum
Vdh
uneven mason
huh
undone jacinth
Pretty sure shriek is just bugged, our DK was taking the bites off shriek and does nowhere near as much damage as our DH
frail wyvern
Often I will taunt and within 0.5 sec aggro is back on the DH
undone jacinth
Doing 1k less dps
strong forum
That's not how taunt works
You have like 4sec of guaranteed aggro
Unless dh taunts back
strong forum
And during those 4 seconds you generate 400% more threat
uneven mason
My cotank is now a paladin (was a monk) never had Shriek just continually swap back to me for bite with the monk but with this paladin I keep getting the bites and they just keep tanking.
undone jacinth
I am 100% sure there are a number of broken threat mechanics in SL
shriek is the most obvious
frail wyvern
It happens most often for me on the switch for Denathrius during P1
undone jacinth
I still can’t quite figure out denathrius taunt immunity as well
uneven mason
that would be a fun one to have mess up
craggy harness
My cotank is now a paladin (was a monk) never had Shriek just continually swap b...
Isn't that the "they lose aggro and just taunt cause DBM told them to"? 🙂
uneven mason
"Stacks are off F**K"
strong forum
If stacks are off you just swap 1 more time
uneven mason
nope risen they're actually beating me in DPS
frail wyvern
Is there an immunity on Denathrius dolphin?
strong forum
But stand in different group
uneven mason
because I'm not focusing on DPS ><
undone jacinth
in p3 I’ve had Denny go taunt immune multiple times
strong forum
Taunt immunity occurs if you taunt too often in a short window
uneven mason
tuant has same DR as CCs
undone jacinth
we are switching before knock back, completely standard
frail wyvern
so if my co-tank is using taunt while tanking (which he shouldn't need to do) it will DR for my taunt and then it doesn't work correctly?
strong forum
If he's spamming taunt on CD, yes
frail wyvern
I shall check the logs and see if that's why I taunt but don't get aggro then 😄
limpid pawn
On denathrius or fights that are that sensitive for taunts
undone jacinth
but like I’ve tanked bosses for years and none of this stuff has ever happened
frail wyvern
I haven't had the issue in P3 I don't think, always P1
limpid pawn
The tank is actively sabatoging the raid if they aren't watching threat
undone jacinth
on multiple fights in different ways, like the shriek example of it biting the wrong tank
limpid pawn
And just PUMPING damage especially if there is a huge disparity between both tanks in dps
strong forum
Boss threat should never be an issue, if your cotank is doing subpar dps he needs a slap on the wrist
Or get a different tank
undone jacinth
if you’re a bear tank playing with a VDH there is no way you can do comparable damage without just literally full yolo suicide build
limpid pawn
There are certain specs and builds that can not hold threat during burst windows
Ashen hollow paladin pumping vs brewmaster
undone jacinth
when I see Elysian decree on the ground I know that the boss is about to change threat colour every time
frail wyvern
I find the DH tank just rips aggro on pretty much everything during trash, dunno if others feel that
limpid pawn
You literally can not hold threat
strong forum
Then pre-taunt before your cotank is popping, throw some of your own burst in there
If there's no future taunt needed from the cotank, go ham
undone jacinth
bear burst 😂
limpid pawn
No, on denathrius even if you taunt after cleansing pain, the ashen Rips threat
undone jacinth
yea I taunt before the frontal and lose threat by the time it ends
limpid pawn
You have to taunt like right after blood price and only then can you get your timing right
But then they rip threat right after your cleansing again
limpid pawn
The ashen hollow dps is serious
undone jacinth
I should try venthyr
limpid pawn
Well, it is an issue if taunt plus full dps still only gives you four seconds
undone jacinth
kyrian pala too fun though
limpid pawn
For example, on shriek wing it's a problem
undone jacinth
you still lose threat in the taunt window even if you hold aggro
strong forum
Pally can almost solo tank shriek tho
undone jacinth
so abilities do weird stuff
limpid pawn
Yeah it's an easy fight but I'm saying that a pally actively doing that is Saratoga
Sabatoge
undone jacinth
tortuga
strong forum
But I don't disagree that pally dmg is retarded
Legit 80% more than a pwar
If they're venthyr
limpid pawn
Like what do we gain from ultra tank dps that doesn't really amount to shit
undone jacinth
I mean pala brew and VDH damage compared to bear warr DK is kinda nuts
limpid pawn
While at the same time creating huge taunt problems
undone jacinth
reminds me of some bonk in the bear discord telling me bears do good damage and the difference between it and the top in m+ is 500 dps or less
limpid pawn
When I was on my prot war with top 4 world dps parses, I would never do that on my prog fights
undone jacinth
meanwhile VDH doing 2k more than me xd
limpid pawn
Tanked with blood dk
I would drastically lower my dps while he taunted
Just to not fuck us for fights like ilginoth etc
limpid pawn
I am not a fan of tanks Mongo parsing at the cost of ripping threat for prog fights
undone jacinth
Elysian decree is their taunt 😂
frail wyvern
ah ok
undone jacinth
that was a joke
limpid pawn
It is literally throwing
frail wyvern
well lol you might be right that it was when he used that and it rips aggro back
limpid pawn
Like if a DPS rips threat, chances are tanks are messing something up yes
But a tank ripping threat from another competent tank, that is the first guys fault
frail wyvern
you can see the little blip where I taunted and he ripped it back, I had threat for 2s. This happens fairly often on denathrius P1
undone jacinth
well lol you might be right that it was when he used that and it rips aggro back
Yup this is DH life
uneven mason
tell him to cool his jets
limpid pawn
Then you gotta tell him to just hold dps while you get cleansing pain for your group
frail wyvern
we aren't wiping because of it, I just end up taunting again in 8s since we are switching immediately after the frontal goes off
limpid pawn
His dps isn't that important
limpid pawn
Like huge tank dps Rarely matters
uneven mason
and the adds are up in that moment
frail wyvern
I end up using my SB and IP for nothing for 8s
uneven mason
might just wanna wait to taunt until after he's done with his burst killing adds.
undone jacinth
just switch so that he uses his decree on the add wave that he has threat for
limpid pawn
Taunt after blood price, tell him to stop ripping threat
Again, threat is something tanks have to manage
frail wyvern
might just wanna wait to taunt until after he's done with his burst killing adds...
This sounds like a good reason for ripping threat and how to fix it
limpid pawn
IMO you are a garbage tier tank if you rip threat from a low dps tank
left burrow
is there a soft cap on haste/vers if i put all the gear with haste/vers?
limpid pawn
And fuck up the groups mechanics as a result
undone jacinth
is there a soft cap on haste/vers if i put all the gear with haste/vers?
After 39% from gear is where you see a decent drop off
frail wyvern
He is using Elysian Decree at the exact moment I taunt, which goes off 2s later...explains it all
lusty ember
Just got my last 10 cleared. Any advice for pushing up to 15s? Been using dratnos's routes and things have been okay so far
frail wyvern
I'm just gunna wait with the taunt since it's not vital to switch so early anyway
strong forum
Just got my last 10 cleared. Any advice for pushing up to 15s? Been using dratno...
Just keep on going, get good dps that pump, nothing really changes
lusty ember
Great, nose to grindstone then
strong forum
As long as your routes and pulls are clean you are doing your job
Rest is up to healer and dps
nimble drift
And during those 4 seconds you generate 400% more threat
Got a log from the fight where you rip off the vdh?
You just spamming revenge with your free rage?
uneven mason
15s are 10s with just less margin for error (as in none)
outer solstice
After 39% from gear is where you see a decent drop off
well you can't really reach that much from gear along rn
outer solstice
also anyone knows why ppl recommend stats over skirmish? for the tiny bit of armor?
yeah but for mastery the cap is different
undone jacinth
stats just straight up does more damage
outer solstice
nah... skirmish does
undone jacinth
I have 4 characters and all sim higher with stats
outer solstice
let me run it again with only skirmish vs stats
it sims quite a tad higher for me
undone jacinth
then the difference is whatever that number is vs a little bit of defense
granite nacelle
i don't think skirmish vs stats is going to make or break a run
undone jacinth
strength changes the power of your abilities directly
outer solstice
it won't make or break anything, but a sum of these tiny things will
maybe because of the high haste I trigger skirmish more often shrug
undone jacinth
Sim aoe
outer solstice
sec
let's see how cleave add looks
will run dungeon slice afterwards
same for add cleave, let#s see for the dungeon slice
@undone jacinth got a top gear sim for skirmish vs stats from your character so I can compare?
maybe it has to do with gear/haste
undone jacinth
I don’t share my stuff soz
undone jacinth
I can maybe snip it when I’m on my Pc tho
undone jacinth
the difference was about the same but if it’s remotely close I always value stats
the same in the opposite direction
outer solstice
weird
but yeah I suspect versatility + haste being a factor here
I am quite stacked on these 2
undone jacinth
yea that would make sense
modern brook
secret dolphin strats tbh
outer solstice
pre itf unbuffed xD
undone jacinth
yea thats pretty hench
granite nacelle
Just got my last 10 cleared. Any advice for pushing up to 15s? Been using dratno...
tbh 15's are all on your dps if you aren't falling over instantly
outer solstice
PvP gear OP, even if just 220
yeah Erga my haste dropped by like 5% ...
I know it's embarrasing
undone jacinth
what value is that
sweet summit
undone jacinth
like 800?
undone jacinth
thats a lorra haste
outer solstice
112 mastery
yeah if you can choose your stats you get a lot of haste
- 5 sockets
also I still use wall on back,... instead fo shoulders as I haven't gottena solid back yet,... gonna buy conquest next week as well and switch to wall on shoulders
outer solstice
lol
open monolith
Played AM / The Wall in raid for the first time last night. Shield Wall allll the time.
outer solstice
what sim did you run?
undone jacinth
pw
open monolith
Now that I have TL and wall rank 4.... Idk what to do lol
undone jacinth
thats my druid sim as feral, like I said just from armory
outer solstice
ah
outer solstice
xD
nimble drift
Where does one run accurate sims
outer solstice
does runnign sim from armory work?
undone jacinth
its just the same as giving it your simc input
outer solstice
@nimble drift you use the simc addon to export from ingame
undone jacinth
its just taking your latest gear from ur last log out
nimble drift
Thx
outer solstice
I think they couldn#t read out covenant stuff
granite nacelle
they can read covenant now
undone jacinth
theres a guy doing over 6k dps single target on wcl as feral
my gear must be so badly optimised
for it to be that different
granite nacelle
i sim 4.2 and generally do about 3.5 overall in dungeons
outer solstice
but yeah I'm mainly tanking in raid, so don't really have the dungeon numbers
undone jacinth
our ret pala parses 99 on literally every single fight, think I've only ever seen him parse lower like 2 times
found out he made an agreement for whisper PIs with our healer
bribed him
outer solstice
yeah same for our top MM hunter
uneven mason
<-- is literally checkingo ur 99 parsing feral druid for PIs
proud patrol
hey guys, thinking of swapping to prot warrior from my fury as I really enjoy tanking. However, people keep complaining about prot tanks. How are you guys experiencing keys around 14-17?
modern brook
Like all tanks
undone jacinth
haste isnt that great for feral tbh
but PI is just so insanely op
that it's good anyway
outer solstice
leaper
nimble drift
Is anyone unironically running leaper in 15s
outer solstice
I do sometimes use r1 leaper in RBGs xD
uneven mason
😄
outer solstice
Leaper + NF = 30 second flag
uneven mason
yup
outer solstice
- intervene
uneven mason
is gross
nimble drift
NF?
outer solstice
night fae
uneven mason
night fae
nimble drift
Ah rip
outer solstice
super sprint blink
uneven mason
My soul shape has my shield sticking out of my back like a 🖕 to the people trying to catch me
uneven mason
indeed
outer solstice
proud patrol
@uneven mason no legendaries yet and I´m venthyr as well 😄 what do you mean about rest of team?
undone jacinth
is there an agreed fastest way of getting renown catch ups
strong forum
pre itf unbuffed xD
😦 im only 24%
amber herald
Anyone got korayn's soulshape charge to work? I heard it's broken with directional blinking switched on
uneven mason
Well, to begin with dirtjumper
outer solstice
@undone jacinth I heard rated arena is fast
outer solstice
😦 im only 24%
well it was mostly on the versa, as we were talking abotu skirmish vs stats
uneven mason
instant queues 1min per fight
nimble drift
I'm 1788 and it's so tilting in rbgs. Literally 1 win from 1800 so many times and then I go on a losing streak
outer solstice
you know I've been on 33% haste unbuffed....
nimble drift
I'm scared
outer solstice
oof
strong forum
uneven mason
So dirtjumper if you were really pusing keys to 17, you'd know everything already, as for "team" pugs start to fall apart in higher keys
nimble drift
That's a lot of mastery
strong forum
uneven mason
you generally have 3 or so people you put together
outer solstice
that's a lot of gear *gasp
nimble drift
Oh okay
outer solstice
where do your stats go then? no sockets?
uneven mason
As for legendaries I'd suggest THe Wall
strong forum
1 socket
outer solstice
I am like 5 itemlvl behind and seems I have way more secondaries
granite nacelle
thunderlord for dungeons
outer solstice
oh well 5 sockets + PvP trinket makes a bit change I guess
granite nacelle
its more about demo shout uptime
uneven mason
that means we're to the point of "Reroll VDH so you can kite while DPSing from 40 feet away"
undone jacinth
aren't we already at that point
granite nacelle
no
outer solstice
been all expansion
modern brook
Deep wounds T-T
uneven mason
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
granite nacelle
warriors are pretty strong
uneven mason
warriors are stronkest tank in pre kite keys
strong forum
pretty sure keys havent been reached yet where you absolutely have to be VDH
uneven mason
prove me wrong
outer solstice
we are, but VDHs are absurd
proud patrol
great, thanks - I think I´ll give it a shot, looking forward to tanking again ^^
granite nacelle
i mean i'm not pushing 20's but i do mid teen keys and odn't have to kite much
uneven mason
we won't
outer solstice
we can facetank a lot of shit
undone jacinth
what does it mean have to be a vdh though
proud patrol
so you all stop playing during necrotic weeks? 😄
undone jacinth
you just play kleia
granite nacelle
no necrotic isn't that bad
uneven mason
Where you'll die through DS/SW stacking
silver trout
I make our DH tank
uneven mason
Necrotic isn't bad atall
outer solstice
outer solstice
or NF
strong forum
Warri is among the, if not the strongest tank vs necrotic
uneven mason
or NF (for kite)
chilly brook
NF is great
uneven mason
because we don't rely on self healing
outer solstice
but yeah nectoric depends a lot on your team
chilly brook
Necrotic also is a meme
outer solstice
to help you out
strong forum
Yeah necrotic is pretty chill in SL
uneven mason
Other tanks get double dicked from healing reductions because their AM is self healing
granite nacelle
necrotic is just asking ifyou can get away from the mobs for 7 seconds
uneven mason
on the other hand we're just a suit of armor made from 🧱 and 💩
chilly brook
I've only had necrotic be an issue once
And that's because the stacks got super high
And the pug monk didnt rop
While I was kiting
uneven mason
I face tank until I hit 45 stacks then I finally get low enough to need to ru nout
chilly brook
I clear around 20ish
strong forum
Ye 30-40
chilly brook
Just to keep it ez
uneven mason
Remember when we could solo tank Varimathras
chilly brook
Remember when we had nutty rage gen?
uneven mason
ahh legion
strong forum
I didn't play pve prior to bfa alot
uneven mason
😢
chilly brook
I didn't play pve prior to bfa alot
Literal pvp god
strong forum
I could be, if I committed
granite nacelle
made you look 😦
outer solstice
remember when we were whitehit-immune?
strong forum
Only masochists actually play tank and push keys...
outer solstice
there are like 0 rewards besides the wide variety of trinkets
granite nacelle
i mean i do it
chilly brook
Whoosh
strong forum
I ain't whooshing shit
chilly brook
Bolstering=key affix
Bolster=talent
strong forum
I just hate current m-
strong forum
We all do
modern brook
M- is a good descriptor
strong forum
Every tank does
outer solstice
more mitigation?
outer solstice
chilly brook
Literally just meme role atm
Just there to make sure no one else gets hit and run away
outer solstice
well meme role and expected route planner in pugs
modern brook
The tank is literally just the healers stand
granite nacelle
what keys are yall doing
sturdy trench
nothing
granite nacelle
like what level
strong forum
15-17s
granite nacelle
i feel hard locked at 15-16's with my dps currently
strong forum
I ain't going higher unless I literally wanna kill my mental
strong forum
(also my dps don't put any effort into learning dungeons)
So every session is just me yelling at my dps
sturdy trench
i mean theres also a bad community perspective
sturdy trench
ppl look at dhs monks bears and think that anything other than that is unplayable
chilly brook
(also my dps don't put any effort into learning dungeons)
My group goes "you should really tell us when you're going to kite"
Like bruh is my health not a good enough indicator?
rancid ember
I do constantly. Health isn't a great indicator but I'm usually on a BDK soo..
granite nacelle
on purpose?
rancid ember
Tell them that I'm going to Kite? yes.
chilly brook
My healer tracks my CDs
granite nacelle
i mean play a BDK
rancid ember
Generally call for a Binding / Typhoon w/e needed based on group
chilly brook
So he usually knows when I have nothing which is a good indicator of when I'd be looking to move
But I also dont generally need help kiting
Hence why I'm not too vocal about it
rancid ember
That's good for your healer, not your DPS. Generally if you work with your DPS and get them into a cycle with your pulls it'll work out better
rancid ember
You on War usually or your DK?
chilly brook
My dps doesn't seem to have that much of an issue
sturdy trench
dks at least have unholy
chilly brook
I benched my DK
sturdy trench
which is the best melee
chilly brook
A long time ago
rancid ember
On my BDK I rely on my DPS usually for the kite ability so I tend to be vocal with it
chilly brook
I just kinda soul shape out of melee and stay just out of melee range
lavish oracle
chilly brook
So the mobs stay pretty grouped
rancid ember
Soul shape does seem nice 🤨
undone jacinth
im sure when i have a disc priest healer my hp doesnt actually ever increase
chrome star
1 in 40 disc knows how to heal keys
silver trout
accurate
chilly brook
Soul shape does seem nice 🤨
I like it, it's not necessary but I like it
It's very convenient
Plus the health regen in it isn't horrible
rancid ember
Haven't tried. Just got my 2nd tank online but I went VDH since we also need one for raid.
ionic fern
We all do. 😦
lavish oracle
I kinda like it but it does feel bad when people are used to just being carried by tanks from last xpac
where we could literally just take care of everything
chilly brook
Like even as "solid" as prot it I still feel like I get trucked in raid
Until I severely out gear it
chilly brook
where we could literally just take care of everything
We still needed people to kick
And do other things
undone jacinth
nothing feels worse than being responsible for not timing a key
lavish oracle
it didn't feel as dire if people missed kicks, though
undone jacinth
and when a tank dies, even if its not their fault, it feels that way
young glen
Finally got Splintered Heart of Al'ar
young glen
Well. I know I need it for two specific m+ pulls lol
sick sentinel
if use this in a m+ on say a spiteful ghost, it will just become perma immune for an entire minute and you just sit there waiting for it to come out of combat its agony.
lavish oracle
seems good for the big ooze on the first boss of plaguefall
sick sentinel
i royally screwed our team doing that, just a full minute of it.
someone in the comments says, "use it on your healer. thank me later"
i think the idea is you drop it ontop of a healer, and if they get aggro it phases it out for a bit
chilly brook
When you die on hungering because everyone is running on expunge and you just dont have the raw self sufficiency to keep yourself alive for that time period
Kinda aids
Granted externals, and your personal CDs can fix that but like it's kinda nuts how reliant you actually are on the healer rn
signal plover
I get a lot of mileage outta my vintage there tbh
chilly brook
Just using it as an example, baseline without CDs we're at the mercy of our healer
undone jacinth
that kinda goes for whole group
whole raid
on that fight
it feels like the healer patch more than anything
chilly brook
It's not the only fight like that though
undone jacinth
theres crazy heal mechanics on most bosses
chilly brook
And us being less self sufficient doesnt help
chilly brook
We can only mitigate so much and it still doesnt matter considering how fucking hard everything hits
Basically what I'm saying is
Tanks should be more tanky
5 seconds of not receiving healing shouldn't be me rotting entirely
uneven mason
we should be yeah
But they design tanks on the idea that we'll be getting healed
last stand could be a bit more robust for moments when we're on our own
not like we'd have self sustain, but enough to get us through a heavy movment phase wherethe healer can't tunnel us.
chilly brook
Last Stand itself is a meme
uneven mason
thats what I mean
steady spruce
Wich wow expac is that ? Sounds good
uneven mason
its a 3min CD
uneven mason
and its "here is a 30% Heal"
sweet summit
last stand on its own is so fucking dogshit its insane how its still like this
might as well remove it i cba
uneven mason
My last stand idea.
Heals for 100%
100% Critical block for 8s
craggy harness
heh or the fact that its only fun in torghast when it has 80% reduced CD
uneven mason
turn bolster into a CD reduction and let us block magic
chilly brook
Then paladins would throw a fit
sweet summit
like
nimble drift
Isnt shield wall the magic blocker lol
uneven mason
I mean 80% reduced CD it becomes self sustain heals
sweet summit
maybe reduce the duration
uneven mason
bolster baseline - bolster talent gives us 100% critcal block during it?
sweet summit
no
uneven mason
(I want my critical block back)
sweet summit
extends duration maybe
craggy harness
"but guys, we made it so that with the talent it adds to your shield block now"
chilly brook
They could literally make both of those things baseline and we'd still not be the top tank and we'd still be significantly behind in damage output
nimble drift
I like the full heal
chilly brook
nimble drift
Make it a panic button
uneven mason
They could literally make both of those things baseline and we'd still not be th...
But it'd be great if you didn't notice that we gutted AM and put them on the same tier, so its really a massive nerf"
nimble drift
Or make it so for the duration you cant go below 30% HP unless its through a 1 shot
Thatd be cool
uneven mason
smells like DKs
chilly brook
Just replace bolster with Nelthation's Fury but like have it do good damage and let you move while channeling
craggy harness
i'm trying to remember how much use i got out of NF in legion
I only started for last raid
uneven mason
I meme'd it on Aggramar to solo tank his combo in HC
craggy harness
that sounds familiar too
it looked cool when you got the cinematic but I don't have much feeling for it otherwise lol
craggy harness
that's true re that crit block
uneven mason
it was burning garbage for damage
chilly brook
And it also limited you because you were rooted while using it
But it was a good idea
Just bad execution
craggy harness
Did it work through knockbacks?
craggy harness
Hmm. Probably would have been glorious if it didn't knock you back
Even if it wasn't great otherwise...
"No, I won't move"
uneven mason
Bolster baseline - replace talent with "While bolster is active you critically block all attacks, and reflect XX% of the blocked damage back to the attacker"
with how hard some things truck, that'd be a real DPS CD
modest plaza
Then paladins would throw a fit
I played prot paladin for 13 years. I'm cool with warriors getting Holy Shield if Paladins got Critical Block, and both were baseline for both classes, but that's just me.
chilly brook
I'm fine without being able to block spells tbh
uneven mason
yeah no, that wouldn't really benefit us much
and would corrupt our kit
I would seriously give up the 1% healing on Indom if they made Never Surrender give us Legion IP back
undone jacinth
just give cooler damage options in talents
how has prot pala become the damage machine tank
with l oads of options
and warrior is how it is
just bland qol stuff
final axle
Is there ever a reason not to use devastator? I kind of love this talent and hope to never deselect it.
uneven mason
not really no
final axle
Thank god
craggy harness
punish is the closest thing to an alternative on that tier, right
final axle
It would make me have 1 too many buttons
craggy harness
i remember that being the unfun part of getting used to legion
tanking
Having to hit that.
(or thinking I had to)
craggy harness
It was, and then trying to parse the arguments about swing timers around devastate
Ah, yes. Learning how to prot war with 200 apm, and then trying to remember not to just hit every button just because you can
uneven mason
I was glad in Argus when I could stack the T20/T21 and have basically SS as every GCD
craggy harness
The day that you realise (because you were forced to) that you can do Maiden solo
It's good to be average now compared to those rookie days.
uneven mason
speak for yourself, still green parsing so I don't get ahead of myself
I'm supposed to turn off auto attack when not actively tanking right @chilly brook
craggy harness
just turn around
uneven mason
I learned that in EQ
uneven mason
well, turning auto attack off yes haha.
final axle
Thought you just unequip your proccing weaps
uneven mason
back in the day you held aggro through attacking and weapon procs.
craggy harness
EQ was why I didn't start wow until midway through wotlk
he showed me a dragon raid sometime 2002ish
wipefest for 8 hours
"I don't want to play mmorpgs"
chilly brook
I'm supposed to turn off auto attack when not actively tanking right <@!13353261...
Wadu hek
I'm not a boomer
uneven mason
wipefest for 8 hours
shocked no one else showed up to steal the kill.
final axle
Dude eq raiding is hard-core and bizarrely political. Project99 has an entire GM moderated discord called their UN
uneven mason
P99 was dumpsterfire
the same guys running the server were in one of the top guilds, insanely, they banned people who got kills over them
color me not surprised.
craggy harness
If that's political, what's Eve considered
uneven mason
yeah Eve is political
EQ was the wild west
back in 99-2004
prior to instanced raids
chilly brook
Imagine still playing EQ
chilly brook
this is bullshit
Wat boss?
uneven mason
👴 My original warrior is older than Griff I think~
red nimbus
wt lego yall use for rbgs? sephuz? wall? leap?
uneven mason
leaper
uneven mason
oh, you were 3
strong forum
Hungering
chilly brook
I'm younger but I'm not that much of a zoomer
uneven mason
👏
jagged pier
<@!179993058186625025> https://i.imgur.com/76ShOik.png
I kmnow
strong forum
fucking scammed
chilly brook
Mythic parses come down to how good your healers are change my mind
signal plover
And as long as it's not on prog, what else is there
signal plover
Pump up dat hasteeee
granite nacelle
into the fray friend
granite nacelle
i have little issues with rage generation and am fairly durable
i face tank most of the trash on mid teens
signal plover
#shrug
undone jacinth
man when you level a character and feel your gcds getting slower every time you level up
horrible
signal plover
It's cuz it's getting older
undone jacinth
tru
uneven mason
You're turning into me Dolphin sorry.
signal plover
And then at max level you're an old man but you get the roids
craggy harness
that haste scaling low
that "i don't get better gear until level 57" real low
Hmm, on that note, i guess I should level my dk for maldraxxus-- and herbing and skinning
guh, i don't want to be a dk
mighty valley
be something else!
craggy harness
i need an excuse for maldraxus covenant
lol
it ain't demonology warlock
not sure who else goes there.
undone jacinth
i put my dh necrolord
uneven mason
class is so dumpster fire it doesn't matter what covenant
craggy harness
i don't really want another healer, put my pally as venthyr already
mighty valley
like, is this a tryhard alt? what are you gonna do with it?
craggy harness
nah, its not
mighty valley
so it could be anything
craggy harness
it could, but, this is maldraxxus
(ala sparta?)
actually, if he's herbing, maybe i should put a druid there
mighty valley
yeah that's a cool rare spawn - bone zone druid
undone jacinth
feel like herbing is so not worth any more
my money all comes from the mighty token
undone jacinth
the lego making seems to be the way
craggy harness
i thought selling to limit/echo was the way
missed that boat.
Also, my boat was just a paper one.
feral gale
Maybe dumb question, but was the shield block buff changed to be additive in shadowlands? Like I can LS and get the bolster buff and if i fat-finger shield block it just adds onto the timer. Or was it like this before and I never noticed
craggy harness
yes
last stand changed from having a block effect at same time, to having the health, and a shield block
which made it additive to the existing shield block
feral gale
ok, I was always careful not to munch my shield block buffs, nice to know it's easier
sick sentinel
what are we saying is low and high keys now
uneven mason
Maybe dumb question, but was the shield block buff changed to be additive in sha...
In BFA Last stand gave you 100% Block, but did not give you "Shield Block" (the buff) now it literally gives you a 15 second Shield block buff, so normal extension rules apply
feral gale
yeah, that is really nice tbh, can taunt swap and maintain 30 seconds of block while spending rage on other things
thanks
craggy harness
yeah the trade off for that small QoL benefit was... here, have AM and Bolster and pick one.
to be honest, 30 seconds of block ahead of time sounds-- like too much.
Feels like there'd be some dead time in there where its wasted.
chilly brook
Most fights yes
lavish oracle
High keys to me just for all practical purpose means 'whatever level key is progression for your character' @sick sentinel
We could set an arbitrary number like 'anything over 15 is a high key' but that's not terribly useful
modern brook
what are we saying is low and high keys now
world first is capping out in low 20s.
conversely, +2s are pretty low.
lavish oracle
Sure, but that's not like...helpful information for anyone asking for M+ advice
lavish oracle
Nah, he just asked what we consider high keys and I answered what I consider high keys
modern brook
💪
undone jacinth
high keys should be anything above 15 surely
lavish oracle
If that's how you wanna use the term, be my guest
undone jacinth
alright so if ive never done a key then you consider a +3 a high key
and if ive done a 3 you consider a 5 a high key?
lavish oracle
If you're struggling to progress through 3s, then yes
undone jacinth
okay lmao
lavish oracle
Like there are certainly people for whom that's true
worthy ingot
high is relative
mighty valley
yeah I think for most questions people are asking "what should I do in <keys where mobs are actually beating me up>"
but then for questions of meta etc, people mean in the 15+ cutting edge of your realm's pug community
lavish oracle
Yeah, that's fair, if someone asked 'what's the meta for high keys?' It's fair to assume they're talking about for like Naowh or Nerf or whoever
undone jacinth
no they are talking about their +3
mighty valley
stop being a brat lmao
undone jacinth
just funny when people back themselves in crazy logic corners
participation trophies for all
mighty valley
i promise you, some people are saying "high keys" and don't want to specify for fear of being judged
lavish oracle
It's not a corner, lol
mighty valley
probably not going as low as 3 but, like, 7, sure
undone jacinth
what ilvl do TW dungs drop
chilly brook
This is why I ask people to clarify when they say "high keys"
lavish oracle
I specifically gave a very flexible definition because a rigid arbitrary definition is like as smooth brain as you can get
mighty valley
i don't remember but something really low, like sub-184 low
and then quest for 5 gives one 200 piece
chilly brook
TW is like 158
mighty valley
TW Raid gives 200s though
lavish oracle
The TW raids use old loot per person rules too
uneven mason
no
undone jacinth
doesnt any more
worthy ingot
not anymore
undone jacinth
they changed it
lavish oracle
Aw
undone jacinth
no chance im going there
uneven mason
they "Fun Detected" hard on that just after Ulduar
worthy ingot
it was hard to get a TW group started before, now it is impossible
undone jacinth
just need some basic gear on my alt to avoid mythic one shots
uneven mason
I'm doing it because there are zoomers in my guild who didn't get to see FL when it was current (not that this is a good comparison) but eh
Beats doing normal CN for the saturday alt run
strange sleet
"I've been raiding since before you were born" lol
lavish oracle
Any of the trinkets good?
lavish oracle
Yeah, but if they're ilvl 200 and busted I'll take em
worthy ingot
the shield one seems ok, mastery is meh but 18k bubble is decent
inland canopy
"I've been raiding since before you were born" lol
flex
uneven mason
"I've been raiding since before you were born" lol
getting a face full of god crotch since 1999
EQ had 1 camera that was functional, first person, and all you could see as the tank was Cazic nuts
chilly brook
EQ had 1 camera that was functional, first person, and all you could see as the ...
Boomer
uneven mason
Indeed
chilly brook
I'm deeply saddened that monk is forgotten in pretty much every RPG
lavish oracle
Oh that spindle does seem pretty nice
uneven mason
Wat
undone jacinth
so baine just
destroys the platform
instantly
and u die to teh lava
this is cool
uneven mason
be better?
undone jacinth
divine steed should work in lava
uneven mason
he does the throw attack at someone, if everyones on the same platform
then yeah, you're all boned
lavish oracle
if you're proccing it once a minute that's like 300 hps
though, if you're proccing it once a minute you've got problems
chilly brook
That's actually really good tbh
lavish oracle
Yeah, seems solid
chilly brook
I'd say that's better than the sun king trinket
mighty valley
Weird that it has to be melee attacks to cause the shield
uneven mason
its a trinket for that situation where our healers are running and we're on our own
chilly brook
But that's me
chilly brook
When are you not getting meleed
uneven mason
consumption
mighty valley
there's just gonna be weird cases where a spell drops you low and an attack just kills you, but it's rare
uneven mason
shve 20k offa the 4th one
lavish oracle
Or if a cast would just one shot you @mighty valley
uneven mason
actually
mighty valley
yeah, sun king trinket is better against actual tankbusters like that
uneven mason
thinking of the abombs in NW
with the FL trinket
even post nerf their bit melee hits hurt on fort weeks
mighty valley
guess I'm landing on "kinda neat, not enough to get me to pug firelands"
uneven mason
I'll force my entire guild to run it to get that bwahahaha
and hten 0 loot will drop for me
as always
undone jacinth
ive legit never seen that end time dungeon before in my life
mighty valley
no one ever knows how to do it
undone jacinth
and pretty sure ive done like 2k dungeons
I had no idea but only broken baine did us in
eager star
New prot warrior here - are you guys able to facetank most trash packs in 12+ keys reliably? Do you guys find you're barely hitting revenge?
undone jacinth
yes to one no to 2
mighty valley
"12+" is a big range haha
At 12-13 I don't have to kite too much and I get a lot of revenge in
eager star
Let's say 12-14s. What kind of ilvl do you have approximately to be able to facetank?